Combat Overhaul

[green shadow]

its good protection against surface and upper caves drifters

[iron rivet]

Monsters deal blunt?

[lyric marsh]

drifters and eidolon

[green shadow]

drifters do blunt
high tier drifters do either blunt or piercing
shivers and saw locusts do slashing
bowtorn and locusts do piercing
predators do slashing
herbivores do blunt

[iron rivet]

Wait a minute, scale can be worn under plate now?

[lyric marsh]

now all drifters do blunt

it got streamlined

[green shadow]

good!

[fallow surge]

All drifters do only blunt now

[green shadow]

good change

[lyric marsh]

no

[green shadow]

no, scale takes outer layer and mid layer
you can still wear gambesson underneath

[lyric marsh]

yes

[iron rivet]

I see

[lyric marsh]

scale is cheap decent protection with balanced downsides

[fallow surge]

I'm glad that it is no longer worthless or only worth wearing by noobs

[lyric marsh]

i never said it's noob only armor, just that it has highest value to noobs

covers all three stats

[fallow surge]

ok

[iron rivet]

One more thing if I may

Actually nvm it was a stupid question

[lyric marsh]

my fav thing now is running primarily ranged with highly optimized armor

this armor costs only 1% speed!

actually no 6%

ditch the chest and it's 1%

[iron rivet]

Damn really

[fallow surge]

Most of the speed debuf is in legs/feet

[iron rivet]

So it's stronger than the vanilla counterpart

[lyric marsh]

all armor is way better than vanilla

well, contextually

can't be fully protected wearing only gamb, but gamb is also way cheaper, yadayada

[green shadow]

Spamton glasses

[lyric marsh]

the true ones

i made them

[iron rivet]

Gambeson is cheaper to make?

Fuckin hell I know nothing

[lyric marsh]

all armor is way cheaper than vanilla

vanilla plate is 72 ingots

co chain + plate is 39 ingots

[iron rivet]

Chain and plate together are only 39?

[lyric marsh]

(higher protection and lower penalties)

yes

[green shadow]

making plate armor in vanilla requires an entire military industrial complex

but it can be fully automated at least

[lyric marsh]

vanilla plate is a noob trap you make once and never again

[iron rivet]

I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand I'm happy there is less grind, on the other I don't like modding my games to be any easier.

[lyric marsh]

here you will keep coming back for more

[lyric marsh]

well look at it this way, vanilla lies to you, co doesn't

[green shadow]

play on wilderness survival 🙂

you will definatly not regret it

[lyric marsh]

i wish the game had features to make wilderness more playable

like at the very bare minimum mapping mechanics and a compass

[green shadow]

i technically play on wilderness survival but i heavily tweaked it to be less stupid

there were a map mod, kinda

[near valve]

I'm very curious as to why you think this

[lyric marsh]

makes best surface armor.

any questions?

[fallow surge]

You can discuss tailor in another thread, tbh

[iron rivet]

Reminds me of the time I saw a thread in the suggestion forum where the guy insisted the normal survival mode should have you start without a map and force you to craft it later for the sake of realism.

[lyric marsh]

tailor main tears channel is needed

[green shadow]

there is a good chance it was me, but im not a guy xd

[iron rivet]

I treat guy as gender neutral

Because the alternative would be to refer to you as guyette

I like it more than gal but not enough to use it still

[next wasp]

I tried to look up leather recipes by pressing "H" on my leather and my game crashed

[lyric marsh]

confession, the only reason i make coif over the full chain head is cause it doesn't hide my beard

visuals are the main reason behind some of my armor choices

@fallow surge recurve bow has a weird fov jitter when releasing the arrow with fov effect disabled

[void scarab]

Unsure if this is the right thread to discuss armory weapons, but what're the go-to weapons that people like using? I've mostly stuck to longswords/sabers but I'm curious if there's any other standouts that play well with certain fighting styles

[lyric marsh]

greatsword for crowd control

falx for more ballsy crowd control

club/polehammer for simple blunt greatness with good reach

with poleaxe as the king of weapons that is the best at everything

[split verge]

imo greatsword is the best because you can block and have no min range

[void scarab]

Falx? I was under the impression it's worse than the other modded options

But that's cool to know that is decent

[lyric marsh]

falx is the best actually

it gets an extra tier and has the longest hit duration

only downside is range

[void scarab]

Interesting

Wdym extra tier?

[lyric marsh]

an extra tier over the others

damage tier

[void scarab]

I see

And should I be running a shield with it? (I'm using a mod with wearable lights so my offhand is free)

[lyric marsh]

yes because it has no parry

[void scarab]

Will definitely try swapping then - I tried out quarterstaff since I had spare nails but was pretty underwhelmed

Seemed alright defensively but otherwise quite clunky

[lyric marsh]

quarterstaff is weak

its upside is that it's cheap, has a block and parry and decent reach

[void scarab]

I see

In terms of DPS ignoring range, is falx the highest?

[lyric marsh]

idk about dps, but general reliability yes

it's hard to miss with the falx

due to how long the hit lasts

[void scarab]

And do shields have any penalty for being constantly equiped?

(specifically the medium/light ones)

Like a vanilla ornate shield bought from a merchant

[lyric marsh]

light shields have no penalty except the default 20% hunger

heavy shields have a 10% movement penalty offhanded and extra 50% while blocking

also make co shields, don't use vanilla shields

their parry is not full body protection

[void scarab]

I see

[gentle dock]

You need to be a clockmaker to take advantage of it's DPS

[lyric marsh]

quarterstaff is a cheapo shield with a weapon built in

and it's good at that

[void scarab]

Yeah when I tried using quarterstaff in archives, I ended up using it to parry enemies to run past them and close doors more than I did actually attacking with it

Which tbf was still good

[next wasp]

I can't parry with halbert :C

[gentle dock]

use poleaxe

[next wasp]

but I get 30% attack speed with halbert

[gentle dock]

stick to it then

you have 10% movement speed just backpedal

[next wasp]

yeah that's kinda how I do it

[atomic roost]

hey hey hey its fat halbert

[dreamy bridge]

hey am i the only one who can't use ANY weapon with the mod ?

i am all updated i just wanna know if it's a bug from the mod or mod non compatibility

[kind epoch]

You can try to use VS Launcher to bugfix mod compatability because it lets you have multiple profiles that don't interact

[dreamy bridge]

thanks for the tips it was an incompatibility with a mod adding swords

[green shadow]

tried fighting double headed drifter in bronze armor while blocking, nearly died

[iron rivet]

How many hits have you taken

[lyric marsh]

if your shield tier is not high enough for the attack, it gets ignored

or if you get hit on an unprotected part

[green shadow]

i took two hits, one for 4.5 damage and another one for 7
i run away after

[lyric marsh]

yeah that's typical bronze armor damage from specials

[next wasp]

I crashed while trying to look at the armory section in creative menu

[split verge]

is there a way to make the higher tier enemies spawn more often?

[rigid mortar]

Go down to the mantle

[split verge]

lol i mean in general

[lyric marsh]

you can tweak spawnrates

i believe it's in jsons somewhere

[gentle dock]

at bronze you should just kite drifters to avoid taking any damage

[split verge]

oh no shit?

can you do it just server side?

[lyric marsh]

well go lookin?

yes

[split verge]

nice

im sick of monsters that just bounce off my 3 layered armor XD

[split verge]

is this what i'm lookjing for ?

[lyric marsh]

proly

[hexed dune]

I love the Firearms mod
not because I use it but because every time I hear someone else melee fighting something nasty then stopping to say "okay you know what" and a gunshot, it's always funny

or the occasional "BEAR" followed by volley fire

(I know Firearms has its own mod thread but I'd also consider it to be part of the greater "Combat Overhaul" mod umbrella)

(Just wanted to voice a "thanks for making this")

[green shadow]

warhammer states it has armor piercing

does it mean i can smash bear heads with it?

bears are like tier 8 blunt res?

[warm garden]

Only effects player armor in pvp iirc

[true nexus]

i remember playing with a friend, and their surprise when a boar attacked me and i cover the bastard with smoke

[green shadow]

to my suprise i was able to kill a polar bear with a spear while wearing bronze armor

i got hit only once for 2.4 damage

polar bears do only tier 4 slashing!

thats still 24 damage on WS, but somehow my armor takes it very well

i wear full gambesson and chail with plate breastplace and open helmet

[gentle dock]

armour piercing stats are only relevant for pvp

iirc the warhammer has tier 6 blunt and tier 3 AP so what happens is your warhammer does tier 9 blunt damage against players specifically

[gentle dock]

bears are a lot weaker in CO compared to vanilla, even starter armour is effective against their attacks and weapons like bronze pikes are great for kiting them to death

[lyric marsh]

that's because armor in co works

unlike vanilla which says one thing then pulls extra modifiers from its ass

[green shadow]

well, im glad that i smithed myself a full set of chain

gambeson + chainmail is enough to wander around safely

combined its tier 4 slashing which is enough for all predators

i think when i get to steel im gonna wear full scale with tailored gambesson, for simplicitys sake

tier 8 resist all

[lyric marsh]

scale legs are 10% movement so be wary

[green shadow]

even though im a malefactor, im thinking about buying a bow and using it

meteoric iron arrows look very tempting

tier 6 piercing ranged weapon

[lyric marsh]

bows do slashing

with more arrows you can make piercing arrows

[green shadow]

yeah, i misspelled

[lyric marsh]

bows sway A LOT

and even more with armor

i turn the bow sway down in config to make it less frustrating to use as non hunters

also where are you gonna get feathers

[green shadow]

i have some artic birds from a mod

there were a mod that adds penguins too

but i found it too much, penguins are everywhere, cant defend themselfs, drop okay amount of meat, feathers AND hide
also using penguin feathers for arrows does not make sense

i could make an arquebus but its needs like 4 or 5 different items to be reloaded and i dont have leather yet for ammo pouch

[lyric marsh]

my suggestion is look for a composite prod and get that

make a latch

can't go wrong with that

[green shadow]

hunting weapon

[lyric marsh]

much more reliable than a bow for non hunters

[green shadow]

it does worse damage type and lower tier, i will not be able to hurt much with it

[lyric marsh]

since you are looking at higher tier arrowheads you can up the tier

only things resistant to that will be endgame monsters

[green shadow]

meteoric iron bolts is +1 tier, so it will be just tier 5 piercing
surface level monsters have tier 4 piercing, i think?

i might as well club them to death, they are not scary

also, i love you can make flintlocks at steel now

[lyric marsh]

wdym now

always was that way

if you have a schematic you may want to wait for steel and make yourself a proper gun

[green shadow]

really? i thought it was a recent change

https://mods.vintagestory.at/moreanimals this mods adds more bird variants including those that spawn in artic climate

or subartic rather

[lyric marsh]

though i don't see how you'll be getting steel, since no flax at poles

farming killpits for days i guess just to get a pulv working

[green shadow]

im not on the poles though, i have set starting climate to icy but i didnt made any more adjustments
flax dont spawn here yes (nothing besides rye does), but i could potentially grow it if i find seeds
i didnt found any seeds nor i need to, because im playing with Wool mod and it allows me to partially make sails from wool
linen itself i just buy in bulk from traders or get it from drifters

i already have one full set of sails and im about to make another one

i temperature gets too low - its gets so harsh its no longer fun
i played with lowest temp climate and lowest world temperature and it was a torture
cant even make a fire to warm up because there is no grass anywhere, you have to get it from cache

also no traders, and no clay deposits ever

[kind epoch]

Masochistic world gen settings

If your looking for winter apocalypse look into the long dark

[green shadow]

i actually liked that game a lot 🙂

[next wasp]

still crashing, trying to look at leather too

[iron rivet]

What's a good generalist weapon?

[lyric marsh]

poleaxe

objectively best weapon

otherwise falx

[iron rivet]

iron tier

[lyric marsh]

falx

[iron rivet]

the standard falx is the generalist?

[lyric marsh]

yes because of its extra tier

[iron rivet]

ah coolio

[green shadow]

what is your class?

[lyric marsh]

doesn't matter the class, prof is just a bonus

[green shadow]

i like to play into class fantasy

[iron rivet]

Hunter

[lyric marsh]

halberds are nice

you have a prof with them

[green shadow]

halberd does both piercing and slashing

get yourself a meteoric iron one

[lyric marsh]

but they have no parry

which is the weapon's big downside

[green shadow]

i feel confident with just keeping distance with a long reach weapon

i use long axe or clubs

[gentle bane]

evading enemies is fine

[iron rivet]

Does falx have parry

[lyric marsh]

no

but you can offhand a shield with that

can't do that with twohanded weapons

[green shadow]

malefactor gets proficieny bonis with it heh

i dont like shields personally

[lyric marsh]

i use weapon parries instead of shields when possible

[iron rivet]

in CO the antique armors are better versions of iron plate as well yes?

[green shadow]

you mean blackguard and forlorn?

they are sidegrades

[iron rivet]

yes

[lyric marsh]

yes, forlorn is lighter and bg has higher downsides but higher defense

[green shadow]

they are both better, but they take both layers

so no chain underneath

[lyric marsh]

i really like bg for melee

bootleg steel plate

and swag af

[iron rivet]

No chain? So iron + chain is better?

[lyric marsh]

no

[iron rivet]

Ah so iron is as good only if it has chain underneath

[lyric marsh]

yes that's always implied

[iron rivet]

Okay, good to know.

If only these armors were easier to find, but I do have bg chest.

[lyric marsh]

repairing it is easy

[iron rivet]

I know the th trader sells them but I'm saving up for elk

[lyric marsh]

well in vanilla that's the ONLY way you get them

in vanilla afaik they don't appear in any lootpools

[iron rivet]

Wrong

I've found the title screen ruin yesterday, the one with the ornate shield

in the room next to it there was the bg chest on an armor stand

[green shadow]

i noticed i dont really use sling that often

now that i have armor, its much faster just to ran up to a thing and start clobbering it

not complaining btw

[slate valve]

That's the french knight mentality

[lyric marsh]

though i think a good point was brought up today that answers malt's question of why crossbows are less popular than guns

it's because monsters are resistant to them

you can only deal full damage to specials with a windlass and steel bolts for example, and stirrup/latch with the bolts available at the time only do full damage to surface enemies which at that point aren't a threat

this works completely fine from a dynamic standpoint and gives bows more ground later on in the game

[fallow surge]

Can someone else reproduce it?

I suspect some other mod just breaks stuff

[lyric marsh]

yeah that is a TON of mods

that's like a star wars scroll

[next wasp]

😅

I'm not home now, I would need to test it later

[fallow surge]

...

Why ppl ask me to make this mod not depend on CO? What do they expect from this mod?

Have they ever played the game before posting this comment?

Like, in PVE in vanilla damage tiers and damage types are irrelevant. And in PVP damage types are irrelevant.

[lyric marsh]

i don't think the people even know what the mod does

[fallow surge]

This is my first comment on this mod

The mod description says exactly what the mod does

[next wasp]

Do you have an idea which mod in my mod list could be causing the incompatibility?

[fallow surge]

no

Ok, now this mod has another requirement

[lyric marsh]

DAMN

[next wasp]

Can someone explain what the damage tier does

[lyric marsh]

if tier is equal or higher to enemy's defense tier, full damage
if one lower, 75%
if lower than that, 50%

[fallow surge]

PvE, it is different in PvP and EvP

[lyric marsh]

co's ranged lineup is the main reason i play tbh

they are so satisfying to make and use

if bullseye was merged into vanilla i would consider vanilla combat playable

[fallow surge]

Btw, there is Bullseye, if you dont need melee or armor part of CO, you can use it. It only changes ranged weapons.

[lyric marsh]

hence why i said bullseye

it is how i got introduced to your mods, bullseye and its version of firearms (just before ovhlib happened)

and ever since i have been taking every excuse to use them

[fallow surge]

Btw, why ppl started to make "quivers" mods after I made my own?
https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/36227
https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/34270
https://mods.vintagestory.at/simplequiver
Whats the point of those?

[lyric marsh]

those have been a thing

since vanilla has a disabled quiver

it's useless cause it takes a backpack slot

[fallow surge]

0.0.1 version of my quivers mod got more downloads in 2 days than total downloads of all these 3 combined...

[gentle sonnet]

1/ "reading comprehension" and the (un)willingness to search the modDB for "I wonder if a mod already exists for this"
2/ probably a massive minority but maybe some of these are "My first mod" because all you need to do is enable the disabled quiver and maybe give it a new slot

[fallow surge]

Ok, there is this mod https://mods.vintagestory.at/quiver that was around for a while, but it just adds the recipe

[lyric marsh]

i believe a few class mods reenable the quiver as well

[gentle sonnet]

And I think it's Better Ruins (?) that adds a tower ruin where there's a corpse with a bow and that "vanilla" quiver next to it.

[fallow surge]

I see those three as "Spear spam" mods, tbh, and not quiver mods.

[lyric marsh]

tyron has mentioned wanting to address spear spam soon, but there's such an easy solution to this, given bullseye both improves spears as a weapon by giving them iron and steel tiers and fixing spear spam

i wonder why they haven't done it

[tranquil onyx]

Combat balance doesn’t seem to be of big concern to the dev team

[lyric marsh]

yeah and it's a shame

i would play on tops if ranged weapons were as cool as they are here

[gentle sonnet]

Fairly sure PvE is still the general main focus. So "How do you wanna kill the basic mobs that exist" is mostly up to you since you can still dig a pit and throw rocks

[lyric marsh]

i can forgive the placeholder melee raycast combat if there are (real) ranged options

vanilla bows are melee+ more than anything

[gentle sonnet]

rock :>

[lyric marsh]

co ranged is the perfect blend of frustration and satisfaction

you have control, but not too much

and the range lets you make really daring shots

[gentle sonnet]

faster to yeet a stack of rocks than fire sling bullets, costs nothing, you likely have like ten stacks in your inventory from mining, deals blunt damage so actaully pretty good against Drifters, ballistic arc makes it possible to chuck it over obstacles but at the same time you can throw them pretty far in a straight line...

[lyric marsh]

what i'm saying is we need to brigade for vanilla to merge bullseye

[tranquil onyx]

Does Bullseye make ranged damage % increases irrelevant?

[lyric marsh]

yes but that can be (and has mods that do) patched

[tranquil onyx]

By that feature alone, patches notwithstanding, it probably wouldn’t match vanilla’s idea of making the combat not complex

[lyric marsh]

it makes it even simpler honestly

[tranquil onyx]

I can see why people would oppose the idea of a more complicated ranged combat, is all

[lyric marsh]

no arbitrary "accuracy" concept, no velocity differences, no damage differences

[tranquil onyx]

Well, OK, what about shooting on the move?

[lyric marsh]

recurve has no speed penalty

[tranquil onyx]

And in vanilla no bows have a move penalty - that’s also a problem

[lyric marsh]

they have a movement accuracy penalty iirc

[tranquil onyx]

Well, even if they do, the point of contention remains the same: Bullseye makes the ranged combat a bit too complicated for what's needed for the game's combat system. As is ranged combat is very arcade'y and maybe it just don't have to be anything else than it currently is.

[lyric marsh]

maybe if they rebalance bows to have actual range and the accuracy to be reasonable that would make it a weapon i can call ranged

(would still lack the awesome animations)

right now it's almost exactly like minecraft beta bow

very short range low damage machinegun

[gentle bane]

delay on arrow release is kind of annoying (idk if it's intentiinal)

thing about ranged combat is that players movement doesn't have any acceleration so it feels mostly like rng for pvp
when it comes to pve target's animations ussually have some kind of offset and also can quicky change directions/speed, that combined with (imo) slow projectiles and delayed trigger makes for mildy unsatysfying experience

[gentle bane]

makes game overall easier, any mod that adds somewhat balanced/underpowered content is a reason to make variant that introduces powercreep

[wooden light]

How is the backpack slot in the character screen used?

[lyric marsh]

all the co ranged weapons have a firing delay

it's the main element of randomness when shooting

i've gotten used to it

it gets better or worse depending on your steady aim

hunter's 50% reduction perk makes it pretty much a non issue

my only complaint is with bows, the random "jumps" are too common

one of those happening as you release your arrow is pretty much a guaranteed miss

[next wasp]

is the bow compatible with the xskills stuff?

[lyric marsh]

unless you're hunter, then it's negligible

[lyric marsh]

xskills says it is

[next wasp]

I saw but some people complained it wasn't

[tranquil onyx]

It should be - I know it’s functional on my server

[next wasp]

I think it works for me too, at least it made me more accurate

[lyric marsh]

accuracy works different in co

bows are 100% accurate, the inaccuracy factor is sway

in vanilla it's an rng cone

[next wasp]

what I mean, after upgrading a specific skill (forgot name) I hit my enemies more often, so more accurate, idk

[next wasp]

I play with sway off bc I hated that

[lyric marsh]

oh then you absolutely do not benefit

unless it's projectile speed

[next wasp]

idk I hit better now?

[lyric marsh]

placebo

it happens

[next wasp]

...

[lyric marsh]

for example i thought for a long time musket was more accurate than the other guns

nope, same moa

[next wasp]

english isn't my first language and I can't seem to explain myself so I give up

[gentle dock]

preach brother

[split verge]

i have become a super warrior

[lyric marsh]

i have become a super swampman

a true fan, swagged tf out

[lyric marsh]

combatoverhaul ranged hunting scratches an itch no other game does, despite the often retarded animal ai

hunt is the closest it gets to that as a fully fledged game, but that's a pvp game where you can get jumpscared by a bushwookie back to lobby

[turbid pilot]

Sorry if this has been asked a lot before.
But does the stab animation on the longswords actually do piercing damage as one would think or does it only do slashing?

I know the poleaxe from the armory mod says it does both so I would think not. yet you would assume a stab does piercing damage so maybe its just not labeled?

[fallow surge]

What does item description in game says for both of those?

[fallow surge]

You dont need to put them here, just read them and compare the differences

[north geode]

I think he was tellinf you to read it bc it answers your question.

But perhaps the question was more of “please make it do piercing”

[turbid pilot]

No I legitimately was wondering. Sorry if it was a stupid question. I was not expecting to get the modders attention

I thought maybe it was just not labeled or something cause it was only for one direction

Nevermind

Sorry

[warm garden]

Question about that, are the reworked shortswords supposed to still deal slashing damage and not piercing?

[iron rivet]

Is wearing plate leg pieces worth it even with the speed debuff?

[fallow surge]

Sorry for that, was not meant to be rude

[gentle dock]

Not really, you can get away with chain and gambeson or gambeson and scale since legs only take 50% damage (unless if you're a blackguard but then the speed penalty is massively reduced so wearing plate leggings is fine)

[iron rivet]

I do not have flax to spare for gambesons but plenty of metal

[lyric marsh]

then make jerkin legs temporarily

put chain or scale over em

i never wear plate legs unless i want to be invincible

[next wasp]

I figured out the crash, I think it was caused by the meteoric steel compat mod

[austere phoenix]

is there a way to get all the animations of combat overhaul minus the peircing, blunt, slashing damage calculations?

[fallow surge]

Yeah, write your own mod based on overhaul lib that will add weapons with their own animations

[lyric marsh]

when people ask this i wonder, do they mean vanilla with co animations, or co without damage types

i don't think even they know

[austere phoenix]

I mean i just want the weapons and animations with the vanilla damage calculations

[lyric marsh]

that's not how it works

co redoes it fundamentally

vanilla uses raycasts, co uses colliders, and co has its own math for everything (that isn't deceptive)

[austere phoenix]

ah i see, well i guess i would like the colliders just minus the certain resitences to certain damage. I want just flat easily quantifiable damage

[lyric marsh]

well you can just mod co to make everything one damage type and enemies to only have one resistance type

[austere phoenix]

yea, true, i guess im just dreading the testing that involves

i thought id ask if there was something out there before doing that

[fallow surge]

Why? 3 damage types and two enemy types does not sound that complicated, it rather sounds over simplified tbh

[austere phoenix]

like changing all the enemy patches and armor patches and damage on the weapons, its simple but its a lotta typing

and then going back into the game and testing

[fallow surge]

I mean, why would you do it in the first place?

[austere phoenix]

i like a more hardcore feel to the game that carries on to the end game, so id want to make enemies deal meaningful damage even in steel armor

[fallow surge]

So it is not about weapons

[lyric marsh]

well that's not damage types, that's just math

[austere phoenix]

dont enemies have resitences?

[fallow surge]

...

You are playing as player, not enemy

[austere phoenix]

yes i know, but a weapon has slashing damage and a bellhead has resitence to it making the damage value not always the damage done

[fallow surge]

what?

[lyric marsh]

you are casting a broad net so it's hard to understand what your point is

[fallow surge]

is it about player dealing damage to monsters and animals, or monsters and animals dealing damage to player?

[austere phoenix]

both, if i deal damage to a monster certain monsters have resitences, also certain weapons deal certain damages, if i understand it correctly

[fallow surge]

ok, I just let Bolotnik deal with it

[lyric marsh]

damn

[austere phoenix]

well in anycase I am pretty sure i know what i have to do, sorry for the confusion

[lyric marsh]

i'm an outsourced feedback summarizer now

i would say the most controversial thing co does is make monsters highly resistant to piercing, and some people love their spears

[austere phoenix]

from what i rember, my biggest gripe was the end game armors making all lower teir enemies deal .1 damage

[lyric marsh]

but slashing resistance i think is a miscommunication because people don't look into how resistances work (can't blame them, that's not very straightforward info to get) and assume slashing weapon + slashing resistance is less damage

[austere phoenix]

i understand that, so if i deal 10 damage to a bellhead who has slashing resitence ill do like 3 damage or something

[lyric marsh]

no

[austere phoenix]

10 slashing damage

[lyric marsh]

if attack tier is equal or higher than defense tier, full damage
one lower, 75%
two or more lower, 50%

i don't even remember how i found that info tbh

[austere phoenix]

huh, i didnt know that. But after looking in the json files it says they have "default resist types" and then it lists their resistences

"code": "CombatOverhaul:EntityDamageModel",
"damageModel": {
"TorsoDamageMultiplier": 1,
"LimbsDamageMultiplier": 0.75,
"HeadDamageMultiplier": 1.25,
"CriticalDamageMultiplier": 2,
"DefaultResistsByType": {
"-normal": {"BluntAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 2, "PiercingAttack": 4},
"-deep": {"BluntAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 3, "PiercingAttack": 5},
"-tainted": {"BluntAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 4, "PiercingAttack": 6},
"-corrupt": {"BluntAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 5, "PiercingAttack": 6},
"-nightmare": {"BluntAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 6, "PiercingAttack": 7},
"-double-headed": {"BluntAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 7, "PiercingAttack": 8}
}

does this not mean if i deal slashing damage to an enemy with say 2 slashing resistance it will take that into consideration and reduce my damage accordingly?

[lyric marsh]

^

literally all there is to it

[austere phoenix]

so what excatly does that part of the json file refer to?

[lyric marsh]

the enemy's resistance

[fallow surge]

🤦

On the not so dumb note: are 1h animations of 1.5h too slow?

[hexed musk]

WTF is "vibecode"?

[fallow surge]

They mean my mods are made by AI

[iron rivet]

Enemies can be dealt headshots too if I remember correctly?

[lyric marsh]

it's a small modifier

it's global it seems

[iron rivet]

Incompetent coding

[fallow surge]

no, "vibecoding" means specifically generating code with AI without understanding the code itself

[lyric marsh]

nah, i use club onehanded all the time

[iron rivet]

Oh.

[fallow surge]

Club is not taht bad, but long sword seems a bit too slow

[lyric marsh]

but that gives the sabre its edge

longsword is universal

[fallow surge]

I agree, but it feels not great to use it...

[iron rivet]

Why use longsword over the poleaxe if the latter is stronger? Aside from aura factor I mean.

[lyric marsh]

completely different usecases

short ranged versatile attack angles with 1h compatibility vs swiss army knife that has to be used a specific way in every scenario

(although its tier crosses almost any threshold i can think of)

[iron rivet]

Doesn't this make the longsword a better generalist than falx

[lyric marsh]

falx has an extra tier and no parry

[iron rivet]

And aside from that, been using the falx for a while and no monster dropped anything on the ground.

[lyric marsh]

that's vanilla

[iron rivet]

Wasn't it supposed to make monsters drop their loot on the ground sometimes?

[lyric marsh]

vanilla.

[fallow surge]

Long sword 1h thrust is 1.4 sec long, short sword thrust is 0.9 sec

[lyric marsh]

co doesn't have that

[fallow surge]

hm...

[iron rivet]

Oh. Why?

[lyric marsh]

idk maybe just not implemented

[fallow surge]

I have not reimplemented it, and tbh, I dont see why I should, I dont see this mechanic valuable enough to spent time on it

[iron rivet]

Hadn't played vanilla in so long I forgot this was a vanilla thing

[lyric marsh]

it's a super recent addition

[iron rivet]

Why not?

Makes the falx more unique

[fallow surge]

I dont see this mechanic valuable enough to spent time on it

[iron rivet]

I dunno what to say to that but it would be cool if you did. I think people would appreciate it. Besides, the code is already there, it can't be that complex to make it compatible.

[fallow surge]

It will take at least an hour and may be more, and thats a lot of time for not so much gain. I dont see this mechanic fun or important

And it is more code to maintain, and more palces for bugs

[iron rivet]

I'm not gonna harass you further over this. Still, I think people would like it more than you think.

[gentle bane]

maltiez what do you think about turning enemies into gib/pulp/gore whenever too much excessive damage is dealt
rabbit getting but with greatsword, carbine etc

[fallow surge]

Out of scope of my mods

[lyric marsh]

damn if there's anyone i would trust to make a gore mod it would be malt

brutal story

[fallow surge]

I like animals, I wont make such mod

[lyric marsh]

understandable

[naive sedge]

Skip the gore.... what about model mutilations on players

[warm garden]

Would be funny if using to high of a caliber or big of a weapon reduced the drops like when animals die from fall damage

[gentle bane]

same as I, so why not punish inhumane acts inflicted upon animals by players

[fallow surge]

Out of scope. I'm sure I'm not the only VS modder in existence.

[gentle bane]

you are the only one that adds considerably more features and mechanics to amount of repetetive content

[naive sedge]

Just 1upping the idea :)

[lyric marsh]

sure feels like it sometimes

[fallow surge]

The problem is that I am the only me in existence, and I already have enough stuff on my plate. I would even say: too much stuff.

I'm spread too thin and quality of my mods suffers because of it

[north geode]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/rustdrops

[iron rivet]

That's not what I mean. Falxes have a chance to make monsters drop things they can have as loot on top of the loot they already have.

[gentle bane]

do they?

[north geode]

Ah ok

[lyric marsh]

no

fake info

[north geode]

Never encountered this. When was it added?

[lyric marsh]

only their drops

if none are left, the corpse despawns

[iron rivet]

Ah.

To be fair I only used that mechanic once when I was fighting drifters in creative to get used to them when they were first added

CO wasn't updated yet so I was in vanilla

[fallow surge]

Hm, I need an animator, it seems some ppl are very upset about CO animations...

[north geode]

I mean you do have 30% more downloads than the next most popular and also the other people on that list get random requests all the time too.

But mostly this just seems to be something with combat and gun mod authors, they get proportionally way more requests for some reason.

[naive sedge]

Cuz guns...

[fallow surge]

I have twice the downloads than the third most popular modders. But these numbers are not really fair.

[naive sedge]

One does not simply mame guns possible without people wanting more firepower

[north geode]

It’s total downloads right? So if you update more the number goes up more?

[naive sedge]

Tho im abit surprised no1 attempted modern firearms yet...

Every1 focused on realism and wilderness survival aspects XD

[iron rivet]

There's already a mod which reanimates your weapons, unfortunately it has not been updated to the current version of the game. You could ask the modder to allow you to integrate their animations into the main mod.

[warm garden]

Its been updated: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/32357

[lyric marsh]

only three weapons

two of which are very similar to the current ones

the greatsword is the most significant difference

[iron rivet]

Oh that's the two I used combined into one. Neat, I'll download it now.

[lyric marsh]

people are complaining primarily (and probably only) due to the lack of body movement

[warm garden]

Would love to see those directional long axe animations in the main mod, they only realy need a bit of polish

[iron rivet]

Yeah. The only thing I dislike about CO is how much less Oomph the 3rd person weapon animations have compared to vanilla.

[lyric marsh]

but like why does that matter

[naive sedge]

Immersion

[lyric marsh]

when people are fighting they're gonna be in motion anyway and the body will be moving, and that only applies to multiplayer because no one plays third person

it's the nitpickiest of nitpicks

[iron rivet]

Eh...

[lyric marsh]

first person animations mog vanilla and it's not remotely close

[naive sedge]

Well... third person mods

[lyric marsh]

but people are so hardfocused on the third person display

[iron rivet]

There are people who use 3p yk

[fallow surge]

CO was meant to use vanilla animations for tp, but ppl bullied me into displaying fp animations in tp

[naive sedge]

Yeah.. i personally dont ise 3p but it has its merits

[iron rivet]

If you ask me all the animations really need is the chest not being completely static while the arms move.

[fallow surge]

There are technical limitations of tp animations, that I haven't solved yet.

[fallow surge]

It is a lot of work to make 2 sets of animations

And there is a problem of belning with movement animations

[iron rivet]

I'm aware of that, I've dabbled into 3d animating in the past.

[fallow surge]

I'm not an animator, I'm a programmer, also

[lyric marsh]

i see nothing wrong with the first person animations, unless they're not historically accurate or something (i don't care)

[iron rivet]

I know the basic principles of animation, though I don't have that much practice. Maybe I could help you?

[gentle bane]

in ideal world fp animations would be the same as 3p anims

[fallow surge]

I tried using hema moves for great sword, but they are not very practical in game

[lyric marsh]

the limiting factor is the tool

[fallow surge]

They are

[lyric marsh]

vsmc is terrifying

[iron rivet]

Counterintuitive to use?

[fallow surge]

Kinda

[lyric marsh]

lacks features

[gentle bane]

imo it would be fine if you could make custom shortcuts

[iron rivet]

Speaking of before I forget, I was thinking of creating amod about human bandits with CO integration as a main focus. @fallow surge do you think your code could be used in part for the npcs' behaviour?

[north geode]

If you do that you’ll either end up with stiff, lifeless 3p animations or give people motion sickness/too much arms in the face in 1p. There’s a reason they’re usually separate.

And i say this as someone who usually uses 3p animations in 1p.

I have no opinion on CO animations btw. I didn’t notice them, which in my opinion is probably a good thing ( they aren’t flashy, distracting, or obviously bad). Next time i fight something ill pay more attention lol

[gentle bane]

the thing is that in irl you don't get these issues bc your pov is above your arms and in games your camera is ussually located between arms, immersive camera is this kind of thing

[naive sedge]

Youll need to be in multiplayer or 3p.to notice

[fallow surge]

it depends on what you want

[iron rivet]

Have them use the full range of the weapons' attacks and parry

[fallow surge]

not specific enough, if you want to reuse animations, you will have problems, and I dont recommend doing it anyway. The way CO integrates into vanilla animation system has drawback in terms of performance, and it is ok when only players use them, but not recommended for entities

[fallow surge]

There was a person that promised to work on tp animations for CO, but haven't got to it.

[iron rivet]

I see. I guess I'll try to make the mod with vanilla combat in mind first as a proof of concept and then see if CO can in any way be made compatible.

[lyric marsh]

enemies still use raycasts in co afaik

[fallow surge]

You can look at vanilla enemies and how they work with CO, and do the same

[fallow surge]

Not raycasts, just distance check

they use vanilla code

[lyric marsh]

ah that's why it felt like a box

[wary swift]

I just got a bug where I'm unable to use any swords or bows from this mod. I'm not sure how this happened.

With the sword, it just looks like I'm holding alt, even when I'm not, and it doesn't respond to left click at all, but on right click it does that "hand forward" gesture.

With the bow, it's more interesting. My character knocks an arrow, and I get a crosshair, but it's the red cross.

[fallow surge]

Installation error

something is not loaded

[fallow surge]

hm...

[wary swift]

It happened in the middel of the game.

I was able to use it just fine throughout the day.

[fallow surge]

there is a hotkey to turn off animations...

Ctrl+PageUp

[wary swift]

Oh, yeah, thank you. I didn't even know that's a thing.

No clue how I managed to do it.

[wary swift]

Or maybe something triggered it randomly.

[fallow surge]

Yeah, I made it use far away keys and with some rarely used key

[fallow surge]

So, has it helped?

[wary swift]

Yes, thank you.

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-handshake-deal-agree-gif-7134721403924803840

[gentle dock]

if you mean the penalty some hybrid 2handed weapons get when used 1handed then yeah I do think it's quite harsh. It's at the point where I don't think it's worth using 1handed when you suffer four different penalties: attack speed, damage, damage tier and loss of direction attacks

[fallow surge]

I buffed longswords, so they should be better now

But yeah, penalty on all stats makes them multiply, it needs to be only one penalty, ideally

1h attacks with 1.5h weapons I think should work like onehanded weapon, but with some single penalty to justify existing of 1h weapons

I needs revisiting...

[lyric marsh]

i use clubs onehanded over maces due to the bit of extra reach

and i can make it more powerful by twohanding

[fallow surge]

Yeah, reach is a considiration here...

Anyway, longs swords felt veeery slow, so they needed a buff

[gentle dock]

They feel much better now

[wooden field]

I feel like the movement speed penalty for the bear pelt armour is excessive? In general it feels like an armour that would be used more by hunters so the penalties feel worse there.

[ripe relic]

The new firearm slings seems to break the backpack textures. I use vanity btw

[fallow surge]

...
I feared that... Will fix

[ripe relic]

Righto

[fallow surge]

Youtube just randomly recommended this stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkROHp2uvV0, first time it recomends somethig this relevant to me: it is VS and even with my mods, usualy it is some random game streams

[green shadow]

can you stack multiple slings of the same type?
like having multiple pistols ready to go?

[fallow surge]

Yes, though hotkey will work only for one

[gentle dock]

You can put a pistol in a sling and a pistol in an offhand sheath

You'll draw both of them at the same time and you'll be dual wielding them

[iron rivet]

I don't use the quivers and sheaths mod because I feared it would be incompatible with a mod I already use which makes the first two tools or weapons in the inventory show up on the player's back. But as far as I am understanding scabbards and sheaths give their own slots?

I'll have to test it.

[tender scroll]

Harper's Immersive Tools?

Yeah they work independently. One is rendering the items in your hotbar, one is closer to clothing rendering, they shouldn't conflict

[fallow surge]

This does not make any sense!

[gentle dock]

lmao

[fallow surge]

Do I need to add "basing reasoning skills" as a requirement?

[gentle dock]

[iron rivet]

I downloaded the quivers and sheaths mod and noticed a comment mentioning how equipping bow holder and quiver bricked the inventory system but when I tested it everything was fine. Was the bug fixed or was it mod conflict?

[glossy oracle]

well thats the main draw compared to other block game, as the survival mechanics are good especially with mods who enhance stuff.

[glossy oracle]

you believe sincerely people who can't bother to read anything will follow suit and understand the new requieremnt 😛

[wary swift]

If I just take the old, pre 1.6.1 sabre animation files, and stick them where the new ones are, will they just work, or is there more than just animations that was changed about sabres? They feel kinda worse now.

I can't put my finger on it, so I wanna try to a/b test it for myself without changing mod versions.

[glossy oracle]

The sanest approach to that is to not reply to it tbh, unless you thrive on having your blood pressure go up on that. Which can arguably enjoyable to some degree, if you can mock them.

[glossy oracle]

Without knowing the exact stat's I'd wager it's bear pelt. It gives warmth good for colder starts and a little bonus. You could also not use the legs as usually those have the biggest debuff.

[iron rivet]

I asked this as well some time ago. In the base game this armor is completely worthless and Maltiez turned it into the best one you can get before metal (or at least, the grizzly and polar bear versions, they have higher stats than the others) plus it only takes the outer slot so it can be worn with chain and gambeson underneath. Just don't use the legs when you go around exploring.

[glossy oracle]

But I never got the issue with being "slow" it's not that much slower. I guess the contrast with and without is strong but if that's the only armour and you don't have a class debuff for wearing it, it should be fine or not?

[wooden field]

I suppose it's just the penalty of the legs which seems huge, otherwise I'd trust them, but I know the biggest danger is bears and with a 25% movement penalty it'd always end in a melee

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, I'm really lost here. The mod merely adds new damage types to arrows, I wonder if they have actually used the mod

[wooden field]

Do the barbed arrows do full damage to bears?

[hollow pasture]

It depends on the tier of arrow and defense tier of the bear

[hollow pasture]

Bodkins are technically better innately since they do piercing damage, but barbed arrows will do higher damage if the tier matches the bear's

[ripe relic]

The Arming Sword shows up as a Blackguard's Sword in a sheath.

[void scarab]

How do people feel about a sling, especially compared to other ranged options available at endgame? Does it still hold up? And if not, what's the best non-firearm ranged weapon assuming no additional mods like extra arrows or whatever

Like say comparing latch crossbow vs sling with lead bullets

[green shadow]

despite the fact that it has blunt damage type, it is a good hunting weapon when using lead bullets

not against bears though, naturally

i dont really use it in caves cause it has a wind up and it would be better to just run up to things and start clobbering

Its servicable ig? Its a stone-copper tier weapon.

You can also buy it off the trader for a low price.

it cant really compete with high tier guns-crossbows or bows when using good arrows, nor it should

i say its definatly better then latch, you can reload on a move and it does better damage type

latch is tier 4 14 piercing damage with bronze bolts?

[gentle dock]

Latch beats the sling in basically every category

I'm pretty sure it even has a faster fire rate but might need to check that

[gentle dock]

Latch is the crossbow that lets you to reload while mobile, I think you're thinking of Stirrup and Windlass which require you to be stationary to reload

[gentle dock]

Tested malefactor + sling, took 18 seconds to load and fire 5 bullets
Tested clockmaker + latch, took 16 seconds to fire 5 bolts

[green osprey]

The guy should make it so you can make all weapons at all qualities

Cause I should be able to make a shitty Bronze Musket or a badass Steel Rossi Carbine

Would also be cool if they allowed us to make shitty Handgonnes, like just casting the barrel, putting it at the end of a stick, and allowing us to use whatever ammo in but it requires a lit Match

[warm garden]

Extra Firearms has basically all of that already: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/33439

[fallow surge]

The guy has better things to spend their time on

[burnt agate]

Hi, my friends and I have been using this mod on our server for years now, and I just wanted to say that I love this mod, as well as the other mods such as firearms. Even if I might've not always liked one specific change here and there, I appreciate the work and effort put into them by Maltiez.
Curse the change making tailored gambeson craftable by all classes causing my main to be even more useless though😭.

[fallow surge]

Yeah, sure, I grant you my permission to make shitty Handgonnes. Also please read the mod description on moddb.

[green osprey]

I need more red arrows, not entirely sure what I should be looking at

[timid heron]

The last update of Overhaul Lib borks picking items up from the floor. I've dug dirt and broke some branches but my character isn't picking them up at all.

[fallow surge]

Sounds unlikely

[timid heron]

Considering that everything was working fine couple hours ago, and the only two mods I just updated are Overhaul Lib and quivers, and reading this on the patch notes, it is quite likely. Reloading does nothing. I'll downgrade to earlier version and report back.

@fallow surge
Downgraded both Overhaul Lib (and Quivers, since it was asking for updated Overhaul Lib), relaunched world, could pick up the blocks and sticks that were on the floor. Confirming it to be Overhaul Lib that's causing this issue.

[fallow surge]

reproduce the bug and send client-main and server-main logs

and client-debug and server-debug

[analog osprey]

Same problem here, I'll reproduce the bug and send the logs

[analog osprey]

Send the logs to you or just post here?

[fallow surge]

drag&drop them here

[limpid citrus]

Getting a few billion of these every second

[fallow surge]

I see

released the fix

[limpid citrus]

As in just now? I updated moments ago

[fallow surge]

Yes

[analog osprey]

brother works at the speed of light

Updated seconds ago, damn

[limpid citrus]

ah yes sorry overhaul lib my bad

wrong thread

[fallow surge]

I left some unfinished code, it was not realted to inventory, jsut server overloaded with errors (that were not here if there is no entities present, like in my test world)

[analog osprey]

same but could not find the overhaul thread, to be fair i joined literally minutes ago just to report a bug

[limpid citrus]

crashed

trying to see if your update did it or if I messed something up

was my bad

forgot to restart vintage story cuz dll update

[analog osprey]

seems to be working

Thanks maltiez, I appreciate your mods and damn this was fast work

Oh lord, insane screen shake on taking damage. No clue if its this mod though

[fallow surge]

Fast fix introduced by doing previous fix to fast and missing some code that should have been removed 😅

[analog osprey]

Also Imma delete my logs

okay, good news, item fix works

bad news, it does seem to be either combat overhaul or overhaul lib causing the screen shake and rendering hit sounds like a dozen times in a split second when attacking an entity

basically you hit something, screenshake like an earthquake, and the hit sound plays a ton

[fallow surge]

thats CO...

Argh...

[analog osprey]

Sorry

Would logs or anything help

[fallow surge]

No, I know exactly what is the problem, fixed already

[analog osprey]

oh damn

Thanks again man, your speed is crazy

[fallow surge]

I just happened to be online and you reported in discord and not moddb, so I fixed it right away... From second attempt.

[ripe relic]

Ok uh for some reason, the screen shakes to hell and back when hitting something while flying

[fallow surge]

update

[ripe relic]

I have the most recent version of CO

hitting a bear rn in my creative world

ok yea the update ya pushed a couple minutes ago fixed it

[fallow surge]

52 minutes ago

[ripe relic]

yea

[gentle dock]

Earthquake V

[iron rivet]

Yo novalux fancy seeing you here

[wary swift]

https://tenor.com/view/smallviiles-gif-26537156

[analog osprey]

Oh shit waddup

[iron rivet]

Nothin much

Cookin lunch rn

[alpine garnet]

So-calian here, is this not what it's supposed to be like 24/7?

[wary swift]

No clue what those first two words mean.

[alpine garnet]

Southern californian

[wary swift]

I see. American continents don't cross my mind too often.

[solid mist]

is there an option to make the Armorer tailor kits reusable?

is there a way to disable needing to make them and revert back to using just sewing kits as well?

[wary swift]

It should just be a json file with the recipe defined in it, so you can very well go and edit it.
You'd have to edit it every update, though, or write a content mod that does a patch to that recipe.

You can dissect already existing patches to get how they work, it'd basically be a bunch of folders one in another, and 1 text file with the relevant change.

[warm garden]

file in question if anyones looking for it

[lilac forge]

can we get some kind of toggle or something to select which attack to use

trying to use the low or high attacks on most weapons is very frustrating

like you press up arrow and it locks to the high attack

especially for stuff like the poleaxe where you want to use the high or low attack and the side attacks just suck with lower reach

[warm garden]

you can have it select attack direction based on hotkeys, and you can rebind those in the regular game settings

[lilac forge]

holy shidd

[lilac forge]

that would explain why nobody else was complaining about this in the comments

now i can use my jedi academy muscle memory

does that actually work

i changed the config but my hotkeys arent working

[warm garden]

try restarting vs first

[lilac forge]

im on a server

[fallow surge]

hm...

[lilac forge]

ok i restarted and the config reset to default

does this not work on servers

[fallow surge]

it should work on servers

and config should not reset

[warm garden]

did you save the config in the top left

[lilac forge]

yeah

yeah it just resets after relogging/restarting

and changing the config doesnt do anything

ok so

the "save all" button doesnt work

but the save button for just that config does

[fallow surge]

After changing hotkeys relog to server

[warm garden]

appears to work fine in singleplayer

[fallow surge]

wdym? You cant click it or it does not save?

[lilac forge]

when i click "save all" it doesnt save

when I click "save" in the other menu it does

[fallow surge]

hm ok

will need to test it on server setup...

[fallow surge]

does it work now?

[lilac forge]

yeah you can change the config if you use the save button just not the save all button

[wary terrace]

curious question - are there any plans to have a separate mod just to add the multi layered armor system on its own?

im not a fan of combat overhauled in certain contexts, but i do like the armor system and how it works

[fallow surge]

no

your only option is to provide feedback to improve CO in these "contexts"

[atomic roost]

I'm very mixed on the armor system, it basically does what it sets out to so I can't really fault it for that but on a personal preference level it's a bit gamey how stat-dense it is

[fallow surge]

wdym by "stat dense"?

[brave canyon]

I’m pretty sure the only stats it adds are the different damage types?

[atomic roost]

yeah to be clear a lot of my objections are things I could also levy against the base system and they are very much whiny pissbaby type complaints, I basically just dislike the whole "tier" system and how it exposes all the damage resistances and calculations directly to the player. I'm more on the Muh Immulsions side of design for vs where I don't particularly want to see precise information because I don't need it and it raises the "how do I know this" question which ruins Muh Immulsions

combat overhaul brings it into sharper contrast with the whole layering system

[sterile forge]

I love knowing how systems interact with eachother. I fucking hate when games hide shit from me.

[atomic roost]

Depends on the game I'm playing, I have spreadsheets for factorio but I want a bit of ambiguity in games intending to immerse me

[sterile forge]

Thinking back to destiny with ability descriptions that give you a vague idea of what it does when I want hard numbers to make a properly estimated choice.

[meager trout]

So I've encountered an issue, at some point when putting on/ taking off my armor, it vanished, so I spawned in some replacement stuff, but now I'm not wearing any armor and I've got stats like I'm still wearing armor.

wait it just fixed itself

[atomic roost]

Yeah this is kind of what I mean, fromsoft has perpetually pissed me off with their "regenerate health slowly" ass effect text, but if I'm trying to roleplay and immerse myself I don't necessarily want to know the gritty details I want to be thinking in character and making decisions based on the logical information I would have available

[alpine garnet]

It sounds like an option to hide some stats would be what you need

Maybe worded like "Strong enough to resist the strongest of creatures" or "Protects from weak hits but not much more"

[next saffron]

regenerate health slowly was a mistranslation tho

like that was head to toe mistake

[atomic roost]

lmao caught the tiny being's ring reference, but I'm talking more in the general sense fromsoft has quite bad descriptions on what stuff actually does, it's rare you get actual numbers let alone stats

which is particularly funny given the absolute fucking walls their character stats screens are

[gentle dock]

just play VS with the hud always turned off for your immersion

[atomic roost]

if I can understand anything that's happening in the game at all I'm not sufficiently immersed because I don't really know anything about survival irl

[gentle bane]

Skill/knowlwge system would be needed for that

[lilac forge]

do bears and such have hidden resistance to damage

I hit a bear about 20 times with a polehammer and still ended up dying

thats more than 2x as many hits as it should take to kill him with raw damage (7 per hit 64 health)

[fallow surge]

No, no hidden resistance, all resistance is shown

[lilac forge]

starting to think the blunt weapons are totally useless considering they are already hard to use and a polehammer hit doesnt even oneshot a surface drifter

[fallow surge]

Good, it is exactly as it should be

[lilac forge]

oh so never make anything other than a halberd got it

[fallow surge]

No melee weapons oneshot stuff, melee weapon damage balancing is taken from vanilla

[lilac forge]

no im saying

why are the blunt weapons so dogshit against everything

[fallow surge]

Animals being resistant to blunt and monsters to piercing is like the main thing in CO

[lilac forge]

why does it take a polehammer 3x as many hits to kill animals with less reach and lower swing rate compared to a halberd

[fallow surge]

They are not

They are twice as good against monsters

[lilac forge]

they are

[fallow surge]

2x*

Please dont increase this number overtime

[lilac forge]

the blunt weapons also have a major downside of low reach

even a polehammer puts you approximately in hit range of a drifter

they probably shouldn't also just be trash against everything that isnt a drifter

in terms of damage

especially since you can make a halberd out of non steel metals

[fallow surge]

Numbers, give me numbers, give me data. Rn I only see lack of understanding how CO works, not issues with it.

[lilac forge]

you're the dev you literally made the numbers

its obvious that a halberd has more reach than a polehammer

[fallow surge]

It does, and quarter staff has more reach than longsword

So?

[fallow surge]

Numbers I have show that everything as it should be

[lilac forge]

ok so basically you have the option of halberd, which has so much reach you can easily dodge bears, drifters, and shivers while fighting them

or polehammer, which does not have that reach and also does dogshit damage vs bears

I dont think this is that hard

having enough reach to not get hit beats doing slightly more dps against the least threatening monsters

and then you also get to do 2x as much dps against the actually threatening stuff as a bonus

wild animals hit as hard as high level drifters and also have the speed and reach to actually hit you

I think if you take a survey of users you will find that halberd is one of the most popular weapons and the short blunt weapons are completely unused

[fallow surge]

Iron halberd deals half damage to half of all monsters with slashing attack. Polehammer deals full damage to all mounters.
🤷‍♂️

[lilac forge]

yes but you have enough reach to never get hit while a polehammer is basically the same reach as a drifter attack, maybe slightly more but not much

[fallow surge]

Ok

[fallow surge]

You are the first one to say this

[lilac forge]

theres no way thats the case

[fallow surge]

There were complains about maces having too short reach, and I made them loner and extended animation as far as possible. other than that, none

[lilac forge]

oh maces are completely unusable now i cant imagine how bad they were before

yes i would like to facetank every single drifter attack while 5 shotting tainted drifters

the words of a deranged lunatic

[fallow surge]

You mostly give opinions, and not proper arguments or some objective data, and it is fine, but there need to be more ppl with same opinions for me to take them into account.

[lilac forge]

take a survey then

[fallow surge]

everyone is free to give feedback, and I dont have resources to organize surveys.

[wary swift]

The only thing I disagree, damage type wise, is guns having blunt damage for some reason.

[fallow surge]

Gameplaywise - blunt is the best choice. Irl wise - I would argue that gamefied concept of blunt damage fits damage made by a huge soft piece of lead better.

[lilac forge]

blunt is the best choice LOL

maybe if its pvp between two players with steel plate and steel mail

but thats about it

[fallow surge]

🤷‍♂️

Ok, I had enough, will just ignore this.

[lilac forge]

the best blunt weapon is the poleaxe anyway

it has way more reach and swings faster than the polehammer

the polehammer is just trash

[wary swift]

I'd argue that blunt impact is when the item that collides imparts significant impact, but which is dispersed greatly across a given surface. It may slightly, but usually doesn't break the surface of the target.
Bullets do not do this, they concentrate their force on a small point.

[lilac forge]

maybe you need to be the class that gets 30 percent attack speed on maces

but i get neither a bonus for spears or maces and the halberd is notably superior in every way

mostl;y because of huge reach allowing you to not get hit

it doesnt really matter if it takes twice as many hits to kill a drifter if you arent facetanking a bunch of hits

I think if the polehammer swung faster it would have a niche for blackguard players who want to dive into a bunch of monsters with full plate

and just maximize dps

but for everyone else nah

[wary swift]

In general, blunt weapons in real life are good at three things: countering armour (so pvp or Giant Enemy Crab), inflicting pain and breaking bones.
They don't actually do as much damage to large targets as a piercing wound might produce, and for animals would at most be used as a deterrent.

So on that front I don't actually see any problems.

[fallow surge]

Maces concentrate their force on a small point too. All the geometry of having ridges and other stuff facilitates this, though usually they have obtuse angle.
The concept of damage type is a game construct, that just vaguely resembles reality.
Compared to arrows and crossbow bolts round lead bullets do feel being better suited for blunt than piercing or slashing.

[wary swift]

I meant, it's mostly a proportion of how much force vs how small the area is.

If you throw anything fast enough, it's gonna be heat damage anyway.

[lilac forge]

I mean smacking a bear in the face 20 times with a polehammer is not going to be something they can walk away from

[slate valve]

Guns should be blunt for gameplay purposes, IRL doesn't matter much. Maces are really good with heavy shields, I use them when stuck in the tunnels.

[wary swift]

It very much would.

While bears might not be some super murder machines that someone might think, they can easily shrug off a lot of things, even piercing wounds and especially slashing.

[lilac forge]

are bear skulls made of steel or something

[wary swift]

They're rather tough, yeah.

[slate valve]

Which bears? They all have different stats

[lilac forge]

you're underestimating how hard a polehammer hits in real life

[slate valve]

They are all weak to piercing damage anyway

[wary swift]

Like I said, you're more likely to hurt the animal, forcing it to reconsider, than to actually shatter its head.

[fallow surge]

Ok, I had a choice to make. I had crossbows, bows and firearms. And bows being default ranged weapon. I had blunt damage type (anti-monster), slashing (universal, less effecitve), piercing (anti-animal). I decided to distribute damage types this way. I dont see how other distribution will be any better.

[lilac forge]

at some point between smack 1 and smack 20 theres probably going to be an issue

if this game had stun/slow mechanics that would be a great upside for blunt

[slate valve]

Just don't use blunt against bears

[wary swift]

Way I'd done it is blunt is the "universal", slashing is good against monsters and piercing against animals.
Animals have a lot of vital organs that get damaged from piercing, the enemies seem to not have any "internals" going on, and given how they're sort of gangly, dismembering them is a valid option.

But, I said I don't agree to it, not that I demand it changed.

[lilac forge]

I think a 2x damage penalty is a little harsh in general ngl

because weapons have stats other than dps

[wary swift]

There's enough reasoning to go into any combination of ways, gameplay wise and "immersion" wise.

[lilac forge]

and like i said the piercing/slashing options have more reach than blunt

a huge upside

arguably reach is the most important stat

[wary swift]

The way I'd have buffed blunt is probably with an increase in speed if the hit connected.
Because that's actually one of the upsides of using a blunt weapon - it bounces back from the enemy, instead of getting stuck in it.

[fallow surge]

Bows need to be universal weapon, cause with CO alone this is your only ranged option (slings were not reworked at this moment). Bows doing blunt damage does not really make sense.

[lilac forge]

CO crossbows are perfect vanilla bows are uhhhh interesting

the poleaxe is probably the best blunt weapon

it has more reach good swing rate and you also get non blunt damage option

[wary swift]

But, do you "need" a universal weapon in a category?

Even with a flat damage value, no types, the bows have enough damage to one shot a lot of monsters as tier go on.

[fallow surge]

Also animals being resistant to blunt and not slashing makes more sense when we are talking about hitting soft tissue through hide (though if we hitting skull and other bones, it can be the other way round)

[lilac forge]

its more a problem of blunt weapons have worse stats in general than damage resistances

well and also the fact that you can just not go into caves and then the most threatening enemies in the game are bears, by a lot

so why would you pick the bad against bears option

[north geode]

Just carry 4 different weapons

[lilac forge]

poleaxe does all 3 and does blunt better than all the blunt options 🧠

[wary swift]

I carry a sword and a bow, both basically slashing.

Never even considered to care about enemy resistances or weaknesses.

[lilac forge]

poleaxe high attack has the farthest blunt attack reach

[north geode]

The idea of people installing a mod where the key feature is different weapon damage types/resistances and then complaining about the differences in damage… like, this is a core rpg mechanic

[lilac forge]

therefore its the best blunt weapon

[slate valve]

Just have multiple weapons

A spear and a heavy shield can kill any bear

[north geode]

Plan for what you’re going to fight, carry multiple weapons, or suffer.

[fallow surge]

slashing is universal

[lilac forge]

or just take a halberd or poleaxe because they kill everything with minimal risk

[fallow surge]

just have one with high enough tier

[slate valve]

🤷‍♂️ You were complaining poleaxes were very risky against bears

[north geode]

Until you’re fighting in a 1x1 hole and the drifters are too close to hit

[warm garden]

quarterstaff reaches farther

[lilac forge]

yeah but it does baby damage and has lower armor pen

and is literally completely useless against bears

poleaxe does tier 8 blunt steel quarterstaff does tier 6 blunt

[fallow surge]

There are 3 basic blunt weapons types:
1h mace (warhammer)
1.5h club (polehammer)
2h quarterstuff
Their ranges seem to be consistent of slashing weapons of the same type

[slate valve]

Anyway, I don't see what needs to be changed atm. Halberds are nice and versatile, but slightly slower than spears and maces. Maces have small reach, but are a good shield combo

[lilac forge]

polehammer sucks bottom text

[fallow surge]

I dont see how I can add more reach to maces, tbh

[slate valve]

They are fine

[lilac forge]

make the polehammer swing faster

[ruby glacier]

It personally took me a few tries to really get into this mod but I really have grown to enjoy it. The modular armor is probably the coolest thing as I get to pick and choose my risks (Can't be assed to wear plate arm/foot protection) and there hasn't quite been anything like fighting a bear on horseback with a spear.

Also launching a drifter in to the abyss with the a weapon never gets old.

[tacit dove]

We're trying to set this up on a server, but we're really struggling to get the weapons to swing. We believe we've followed the necessary steps and troubleshooting, but may've missed something. Should we just try clean install of everything?

[fallow surge]

Send logs

[steep gorge]

Heyy I was told to forward this bug here. Meteoric Steel Plate Body Armor doesn't have any layers or body parts assigned.

[gentle dock]

Join us in the Cult of Poleaxe

[gentle dock]

This is from rustbound magic

Maltiez is it possible to have a slashing weapon other than the Falx with tier 7 attacks? or have an existing weapon buffed to tier 7?

[fallow surge]

Why?

To make blunt and piercing weapons completely obsolete?

[fallow surge]

Test without rustbound magic

[gentle dock]

it's more to stop the falx from obsoleting all the other one-handed swords

[steep gorge]

Still broken with rustbound uninstalled.

I think this stems from some weirdness between Meteoric Steel, Meteoric Steel Compat, and Armory

[fallow surge]

Wait, meteoirc steel?

[steep gorge]

yessir

[fallow surge]

You want to contact author of the mod that adds it

[pulsar summit]

tell him about meteoric steel not being made into buckles either

Revolver arb doesn't show up on the sling as well. Slings are amazing btw, great addition

[fallow surge]

I know about revolver, will add later

[pulsar summit]

https://tenor.com/view/pointing-the-situation-mike-sorrentino-jersey-shore-family-vacation-thats-the-one-gif-5368071044129281049

[gentle sonnet]

I got a friend who is atrocious at handling pole-weapons because they always try to get right in the face with everything.
If you like to get so close your eyeballs are touching theirs, you want the swords.

[remote fjord]

Hey man I asked on the mod page then remembered discord exists. Would it be possible for you to make a patch for Temporals Reformed? It really doesn't like CO which is sad becuase I can't play without CO at this point

[gentle dock]

that's when you just bash them with the poleaxe

[atomic roost]

author just uploaded a lite version which is intended to be used with combat overhaul

[remote fjord]

I'm blind, thanks!

[gentle bane]

Players are fast enough and have no acceleration allowing them to dictate when contact will be made

[atomic roost]

tbh with how damn fast you move in vs with no swing slowdown like in most melee fighters I only really notice the difference in reach between polearms and swords

you can just start the swing and sprint in before it connects on any weapon

[wary swift]

To me sabres feel like they reach a little less than they used to before a recent change in animation, but otherwise I haven't had any issues of reach with any weapons I tried.
Even with sabres it's not an issue, just sometimes misses where from prior "muscle" memory I expected it to hit.

[gentle bane]

Sounds like minor skill issue

[sterile forge]

real as fuck.

Given you have enough time to fully sprint through something without their move connecting, weapon reach only really matters for multi hitting im my opinion. I think its a nice balance. Sabre does a lot of dps for example, but im going to be using a halberd or greatsword if I want to cut through large groups of rustborn or shivers.

[wary swift]

Like I said, it seems like a change more than an issue, but I'm nearly done with playing the game, and soon will lay it off for a while, I feel, so I won't even have much use for most of the stuff in the mod anyway.

[sharp pebble]

yo, I have this error pop up whenever I'm starting my world, I'd provide .log file but I have no idea which one since there's like 6 of them

actually there's 10 of them

[wary swift]

server-main

[sharp pebble]

Before anyone asks, This is on a fresh VS install, with the whole VintagestoryData folder deleted from appdata, so that's not an old version of the mod conflicting etc.
I launched the game and generated a world before installing any mods to generate all files, then installed all the mods I needed, restarted the game and generated another world

It does not crash the game, and I've (yet) had no problems playing on an old backup world, but I tought it was worth reporting

Does anyone know where to look for "/server/behaviors/......."?

[wary swift]

By the looks of it, you have a mod that modifies enemy behaviours. It patches the default "range" to "rangeByType", which is not what the overhaul lib expects.

Comb through the mods that might affect this, like any enemy overhauls or the like, and open their files. Then look for folder called patches and there should be something like bowtorn.json

[sharp pebble]

Flee exhaustion mod is a very likely cause then

[wary swift]

Some of that will have the change to this.

No, it contains only 1 patch to these enemies, but applies a special behaviour instead.

It's adding, and adding something else, so it shouldn't produce this behaviour.

[sharp pebble]

temporals reforged lite then

[wary swift]

Here's how the fleeentity looks like in the basegame. It's completely different from how you have it, which means some mods would have affected it for you.

[wary swift]

Your only way is to open it and check.

I don't have that mod installed.

[sharp pebble]

Doing it rn

[wary swift]

Well, not the only way, but the best way.

[sharp pebble]

yeah it was temporals lite

It had a lot of code and I'm to lazy to read all that, so I just deleted it and no more errors

[iron rivet]

How does CO interact with wolf taming's creatures and armors?

[wary terrace]

giving it some thought, i think i should first clarify that i'm mostly talking about this in a multiplayer / PvP context (which i'm aware you don't deliberately balance around), but i'll give my thoughts

• specifically with the armory mod, people very rarely go for anything but specific weapons (greatsword, in my experience). this means that despite the nice variety of weapons, they mostly become clutter
• with the base mod, there's a few problems, mostly just how swings and parrying work. specifically, directional swinging feels almost semi-random and is difficult to get a 'pattern' on, so if you specifically want to bypass a block by swinging from the left or deliver a devastating overhead, it feels like the system doesn't allow this very well
• this may be my own personal biases towards more mechanically complex melee systems, but i feel like the main thing that CO combat really adds, positively, is that you can now cleave through enemies. it doesn't often add nuance or changes to moment to moment gameplay because often, you are still doing the vintage story shuffle (run in, swing, assess prospects, either run in or run back to avoid a hit). it just makes clustering together more punishing
• to build on to the last point actually, i think while this is a larger problem with VS combat, but i think it relies too much on mobility and avoiding swings rather than deflecting or blocking swings - it doesn't feel like you're trying to outplay an opponent, just sprint around enough to smack em
• this kinda wraps back to the armory mod again, but i also do feel like the blunt/piercing/slashing way of going about things doesn't really affect playstyles - in PvE, you just choose the highest blunt damage to deal with 75% of enemies, in PvP, you.. just do whatever. oftentimes, it doesn't feel like your weapon does anything more than marginal damage in a position where it is doing the most 'kind' of damage - which makes weapon choice a little irrelevant

i had more to say but i realized i was reaching the character limit

and i'm already dropping a big ole wall of text here

[glossy oracle]

you could bait their attack out? You can get into their melee range and just backstep, or just use a shield and block while going up.

[glossy oracle]

but any combat game with attack direction have the issue just look at mordhau or chivalry... both games skill ceiling is the movement...

same with Mount and Blade, movement and fainting a attack is half the rent.

[wary terrace]

i mean i can't deny that, but movement is more used in VS in a way that makes blocking and parrying less viable than just sprinting out of the way and back

[glossy oracle]

install sprint and momentum mod, the old version had a strict inertia system

1.3 version feels icy sometimes but you gotta build it up

[wary terrace]

which, granted, it's not like other games where stamina is an explicit resource that means sprinting is a choice you have to make

[glossy oracle]

but otherwise it's more the fact no stamina or inertia

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/26142

install vigor

[wary terrace]

(which, good, i would hate to spend time taking a breather in my hunt for shinies)

[glossy oracle]

and you have stamina usage while running

but the mod has some perfomance issues on my end and my guess why my old server crashed.

[wary terrace]

ah. good to know

[glossy oracle]

spammed the server logs too with status updates etc. Without rubberbandaid fix not really playable.

but yeah that's the only 2 solutions I can give you, as the inherent problem isn't necessarily CO

My humble opinion is, any combat in most survival games don't feel as good compared to games who solely focus on it.

[gentle bane]

there is no game with good combat, the only "good" is something that you haven't experienced yet, after getting hang of something it all starts falling apart

[glossy oracle]

We could look at vanilla combat in VS that says everything lol, secondly the only unique creatures are either the bosses or bowtorn shiver little spider robots or bells. Everything feels simple.

[wary terrace]

i mean honestly that's my opinion too, but since i can't get Just The Armor Layer Mod, i might as well give my earnest thoughts

[glossy oracle]

Well there is good melee combat system. maybe not for you but I loath over Darktide's melee combat compared to any other game. Other example would be Mount and Blade.

[glossy oracle]

so you would prefer the vanilla combat from VS with armour layering? I never played vanilla but saw once how one used the blackguard shortsword

[wary terrace]

at the very least i think ome of my my other criticisms are salient, since having run a few combat tests has given me that impression

[wary terrace]

at the very least i would like to have the armor layering and the ability to experiment with other weapon/combat mods

[gentle bane]

mainly broken as light attacks have the same attack speed as heavy attack

[glossy oracle]

in the context of darktide you mean?

[gentle bane]

ye

[wary terrace]

since i think the layer system is cool, and should honestly be default - it gives more customization and (more importantly to me) allows me to play dressup

[gentle bane]

if you time it right ofc

[glossy oracle]

well you rarely heavy attack unless your weapon has cleave on heavy attacks or it is single target dmg.

Or use the special mouse 3 button combo of swords or deflect special attack

there is nuanace how one uses tools in the mist of hordes.

[wary terrace]

..have to check since i've only played vermintide 2 - what's different about darktide combat?

besides the emphasis on guns

[glossy oracle]

not much except the emphasis on the guns and more ranged enemys

[gentle bane]

it's combat overhaul channel iirc

[wary terrace]

oh it is, i jsut wanted to have reference since we're also discussing combat systems at large

[glossy oracle]

I haven't played much vt2 but I could go into catalysm if I recal hardest diff with ease from darktide, issue was the lack of sprinting and sliding lol

[gentle bane]

someone may just think that it's nothing more that just random chatter and will just skip over feedback

[wary terrace]

fair enough

i think at the very least, emphasis on movement should be changed - it feels too easy to run circles around most rust enemies, and as for real opponents, it just ends up like one of those tropical bird mating dances

https://tenor.com/view/birdy-dance-fun-dance-moves-jump-gif-16413430

like one of these