Look man, thats cool and all, i do in fact really like CO in most regards. But end game my biggest threat is high tier drifters. Once you get to steel in either vanilla or CO nothing else matters.
#Combat Overhaul
lyric marsh
so what point are you trying to make
nova moth
Unless you use plate, you are weaker in CO than vanilla.
nova moth
Thank you! Exzactly my issue!
lyric marsh
not an issue
self imposed issue
if you don't like using plate, use something else, assemble every part of your armor to your liking
oak harness
Is this something you recently fixed and we just had an outdated mod version?
nova moth
I think it would be better if leather, scale, and plate were all outer layers so you could have more options for what you want to wear, thats all im saying.
fallow surge
Is this something you recently fixed and we just had an outdated mod version?
I was trying to fix such crashes in vanilla code for months, and as you see, they are still there.
lyric marsh
but then scale would just be better
fallow surge
Some ppl were even mad at me for not fixing those
lyric marsh
it would be lighter than plate but still provide a whole bunch of protection
nova moth
Scale is way cheaper than plate. If you could wear it on top of chain you could give it half the stats of plate
So scale is cheaperrr, and less defensive, and a bit lighter
lyric marsh
and brig is only 2 ingots more expensive than scale
nova moth
Brig is well balenced. Id make scale a bit less defensive than brig, but lighhter
oak harness
I was trying to fix such crashes in vanilla code for months, and as you see, the...
Ahhh, so this is a case of "it is what it is"
lyric marsh
scale would lose its niche of being mid tier armor
and would very likely become the meta armor
nova moth
Scale in CO is terrible
lyric marsh
no
all the people making bold statements about co never check the spreadsheet or the math
nova moth
Im doing these test in game in real time my man
oak harness
All armor is worthless still gets destroyed by admin sword best sword in the game 🥱
lyric marsh
All armor is worthless still gets destroyed by admin sword best sword in the gam...
second chance activates
admin gets dunked
oak harness
That applies to all weapons tho
lyric marsh
Im doing these test in game in real time my man
you have tunnelvision because you're only looking at a single enemy and going "it's worse it's worse shut it down!"
i have done tons of ingame tests
i personally wouldn't use scale but it has its usecases
i like the sleeves and pants, they're very viable
nova moth
Ok lets go bears. Chain is 88%, scale is 90%. Correct?
So why make scale, if you are using chain under plate for the end game drifters, why make scale
nova moth
Ive seen the spread sheet, but ill pull it up, what do you want me to see
fallow surge
bronze ligjt/medium are quite different, iron and steel are very close though (for slash and blunt)
lyric marsh
but since we are on the topic of armor, i think leather armor is now completely worthless being a middle/outer without a niche
fallow surge
but since we are on the topic of armor, i think leather armor is now completely ...
Numbers, give the numbers
lyric marsh
bronze ligjt/medium are quite different, iron and steel are very close though (f...
the way i see it, full scale armor is a noob armor, and there's nothing wrong with that, new players are very scared of bowtorn usually
nova moth
So droppiing from 12 12 8 to 6 6 2 is a massive difference right? we agrree?
lyric marsh
leather is 2,3,1, same penalties as scale
lyric marsh
So droppiing from 12 12 8 to 6 6 2 is a massive difference right? we agrree?
what are those numbers
armor stats?
nova moth
plate and chain vs scale
lyric marsh
do you not have a skin layer?
nova moth
skjin is the same for both
lyric marsh
combine stats
nova moth
with t gamb its 14 14 14 tp 8 8 8
lyric marsh
correct
as for whether it's a massive difference, it really depends on your situation and what pieces you are using
using plain full sets is disingenuous in co's case
steel scale is significantly weaker only against nightmares and specials
so if you are fighting nightmares and specials (below y30), don't use that armor maybe?
or do, if you don't intend on fighting and just want to live through your mining trip
the mobility lets you avoid a lot of hits
and if you get hit it's not the end of the world
nova moth
I think it would be more robust if we had more options for outerr layers, sscale and leather both just seem pointless to me
lyric marsh
leather used to be an outer layer, was made middle+outer for some reason
not that it was good before
nova moth
I think scale should be less defensive than brig, but lighter and worn on top of chain
Thats all im arrrguing for
orr keep it an outer mid and give it a bit more stats
lyric marsh
but i also don't want to kill the niche scale creates
if scale became an outer layer with lesser penalties i would not see a reason to use anything else
nova moth
Plate for dungeons. bosses, and storms. Situations where you are gonna get swarmed by high tier mobs. Scale for Mining, bear hunting, or you cant stand the mobility loss of plate. Chain for light mining and exploration. Just gambeson for surface levels. And you can mix and match for your build, if you are an archer or you are good at moving and doging, or budget reasons.
lyric marsh
but you described how it is now
fallow surge
but since we are on the topic of armor, i think leather armor is now completely ...
Have you compared it to copper scale?
nova moth
As it is now im always wearing gamb and chain, and throwing on plate for storms and deep mines
lyric marsh
copper scale is 3 piercing 3 slashing
fallow surge
fallow surge
copper scale is 3 piercing 3 slashing
You said earlier that piercing is not as important, didn't you?
lyric marsh
yes
fallow surge
Is copper scale worthless?
nova moth
Is copper scale worthless?
What do you think about rebalancing scale as an outer layer?
fallow surge
What do you think about rebalancing scale as an outer layer?
I wont
lyric marsh
but you need some piercing defense for deeper caving
fallow surge
Also no armor rebalances in next 2 months, had one already recently
lyric marsh
and people always have the power to make their own mods
if i offer something and it gets rejected, i'd make my own patch
nova moth
CAn... Can i make an CO addon mod that rebalances scale armor? Would that be ok?
fallow surge
not for noobs i'd assume
Half the protection for half the debufs?
lyric marsh
and the latter two actually got merged as features in the base mod
lyric marsh
Half the protection for half the debufs?
price is also a factor
fallow surge
price is also a factor
I find leather to be cheaper for me
lyric marsh
massproducing leather is annoying
nova moth
The only modding ive done so far was adding in gilded armor that looks like gold/silver armor but with the stats of steel. So i think what im suggesting wouldn't be that more complex, though definitely more work.
lyric marsh
i don't see any situation where one would make leather armor but that's me
nova moth
Also i run 30 barrrels at once for leather. Mass producing leather is easy
lyric marsh
but annoying
nova moth
The onnly other thing id like to see is leather chest broken down into its three slots
oak harness
April fools update: make scale armor ultra busted
Delete chainmail
nova moth
Archers need leather gloves and sleeves with plate chests
lyric marsh
archers don't wear sleeves
nova moth
They wear bracers, which im guessing would go in the arm slot
oak harness
It's mostly to protect your arms from the string (if you're using the bow wrong)
lyric marsh
no protection, +5% steady aim
oak harness
Fair idea
nova moth
If i make an addon to make the changes i want, it will involve copying most of your code, do i have permission? Id want to do it respectfully.
lyric marsh
then you're not making a patch
you're just repackaging the mod
all of what you want is just done with json
nova moth
Thats why im asking. Id be taking scale.json and changing it. II can just not upload it, that would be easiest.
lyric marsh
well that's not code, that's json
fallow surge
Ask in https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/351624415039193098 how to do json patches
no permission for repacks, learn how to do it properly
wary swift
Thats why im asking. Id be taking scale.json and changing it. II can just not ...
There are ways for your mod to affect the json code of another mod.
It's called a patch, and it goes into the code of the target mod and rewrites the part you want.
Which is made kinda scuffed in this game, with hard-set indexes in dictionaries, for some reason...
wary swift
Thats why im asking. Id be taking scale.json and changing it. II can just not ...
If it's for your own use, you're free to literally open the mod folder and rewrite what you want.
Though saving changes within the zip can be fiddly, depending on your text editor, and, obviously, your changes won't automagically carry over if you update the mod.
nova moth
See thats why im asking, i want to do it right. thanks! I learn how to write a patch to change values in another mods Json
wary swift
I edited like 20 mods already to suit my needs, but I know that those mods are either unlikely to get an update, or I carry over the changes when they get updated.
nova moth
So if i do it as a patch that changes some values in scale.json, would that be ok to put on the mod.db?
wary swift
You can also just see if someone else already done it, or something similar.
lyric marsh
my main argument against leather is it's a very timegated process
fallow surge
Try latest version of ovh lib
lyric marsh
not only timegated, but has to be babysat through 3 stages
if i wanted to i could have iron two days from start, but leather needs you to just wait
but it depends on skill level and the value of your time according to that skill level
naive sedge
alot of the organic stuff is time gated
my main problem with it is having to find chalk and having the time to collect it before hides start to rot XD
lyric marsh
backpacks are essential, jerkin is important, there's also the belt and quivers which are another sink of extra leather, i don't see myself or most players making, and then spending, a bunch extra on an inferior scale
fallow surge
I would say: superior scale, if you dont encounter locust and engage with bowtorns
fallow surge
backpacks are essential, jerkin is important, there's also the belt and quivers ...
Why inferior?
lyric marsh
cause it doesn't give the benefit of scale of all round protection
it doesn't even cross the threshold of surface bowtorn
fallow surge
cause it doesn't give the benefit of scale of all round protection
What all round protection? You already said that bowtorns and locust are not a problem. And leather lets you move one protection point to blunt from piercing
otherwise it is exactly the same
lyric marsh
they're not a problem to me because i can completely exploit their ai, but i don't know how a new player would face it
lyric marsh
What all round protection? You already said that bowtorns and locust are not a p...
assuming you have jerkin that one extra point doesn't make a significant difference?
the one extra point would halve damage from corrupt drifters, but you wouldn't be going after those in that setup regardless
fallow surge
~25% less damge, not that significant, true
Though it is something, and this extra piercing will only save you 1hp for locust and surface bowtorn.
I dont see this being inferior
You are over exaggerating
lyric marsh
it doesn't, you need tier 3 for surface bowtorn
which should probably be changed
wait same for locusts as well
piercing tier below 3 doesn't do anything
fallow surge
bowtorns are anti-armor by design
fallow surge
it doesn't, you need tier 3 for surface bowtorn
Difference between 2 and 3 piercing is 1hp and is here only for 2 mobs, one of which, as you said, you dont encouter anwyay
lyric marsh
sure
fallow surge
Difference between 3 and 4 blunt is ~0.4 hp on average, but for a lot of mobs
I see it as an equal treadeoff
So leather armor is not interior to copper scale
green shadow
i can buy leather turns out
for CO armors
thanks Tailors Delight!
is this a bug?
copper brigandine gives more blunt protection then a full armor
but for steel they are the same?
lyric marsh
oh there was a case of armor values being miscalculated right after the rebalance
fix probably wasn't applied to it
fading crescent
Does poleaxe benefit from the hunter class(spears, halberds) like the halberd?
atomic leaf
surreal sapphire
@fallow surge the greatsword textures in the latest release are all the same in sword-great.json at line 47 column 58 "{material}" was changed to "*".
fallow surge
<@263749013294153729> the greatsword textures in the latest release are all the ...
Any other?
surreal sapphire
Any other?
No, I haven't seen any
wary swift
Does anyone know what xskills proficiency affects long axes from this mod?
They are not mentioned on the xskills page, and the xskills channel is basically kinda dead.
wooden field
What armour is reasonably useful for hunters who intend to prioritize ranged combat?
On a server I'm, a blackguard and melee, and my friend is a hunter focused on ranged combat so I am trying to understand what armour makes the most sense to smith for him
hexed musk
What armour is reasonably useful for hunters who intend to prioritize ranged com...
tailored gambeson
you need a clothier for that or looting/buying from merchants
otherwise normal gambeson
wooden field
Long term though that won't hold up will it? I've been rocking a tailored gambeson and iron mail and sawblade locusts cut through it like particularly thin paper.
In terms of tech level we're sort of at steel now, so I was wondering if there's anything past steel maille that he'd find useful.
lyric marsh
What armour is reasonably useful for hunters who intend to prioritize ranged com...
forego sleeves and wear a lighter helmet
that's protection+ranged
wooden field
forego sleeves and wear a lighter helmet
Thank you man of the swamp, I had forgotten that you don't necessarily need to combine all the components of armour together
lyric marsh
you need a clothier for that or looting/buying from merchants
oh boy you're out of the loop
sinful panther
What armour is reasonably useful for hunters who intend to prioritize ranged com...
Plate torso without arm protection, open helmet
hexed musk
really? Tailored gambeson is now steel locked tech?
lyric marsh
ye
sinful panther
As a maker of cawck i was rocking plate helmet with the open/close mod, plate torso, mail arms & legs and gambeson
lyric marsh
meteoric iron for tailor
sinful panther
really? Tailored gambeson is now steel locked tech?
It's the peak of blunt armor ye
wooden field
Thank you both, that'll end up with a pretty distinct and cool looking setup for him, and save us both steel in the short term.
lyric marsh
chain sleeves are fine
extremely light
outer sleeves are the bulk of ranged debuffs
slate valve
yeah pretty much everyone should get gambeson + chain
lyric marsh
also iirc open helmet has no ranged penalty
fallow surge
What armour is reasonably useful for hunters who intend to prioritize ranged com...
I would've used plate cuirass + open helmet over underarmor
wooden field
I guess you end up with a sort of conquistador look afterwards?
sinful panther
I guess you end up with a sort of conquistador look afterwards?
Not at all but that's a funny way to put it
wooden field
I don't know why, but I've a strong impression of an open helmet + breastplate as being associated with that particular group from history.
royal sierra
Eternally amused that the tailors lacks any combat upside or downside
wooden field
Having messed around with the windlass crossbow a little, I have to say that the animation for it is incredibly cool
It looks like it has about the perfect level of detail and realism for a game like this, and it's so cool seeing the rope unspool and spool again as you cock the crossbow and loosen the windlass.
atomic roost
Where should I report issues I'm having? Having a strange issue where I get a crash when trying to connect to a server (that I control) results in a hard client crash, logs are saying critical error in overhaullib
strangely I can start a single player world fine with no crashes
likely some kind of conflict but I'm just not sure what
light saddle
atomic roost
Where should I report issues I'm having? Having a strange issue where I get a cr...
oh god this is a threading bug
atomic roost
alright narrowing it done, caught this time around that from a completely clean install it crashes at the same transferred data as when flawless kicks in, might be flawless doing something weird
lyric marsh
is lamellar worth making?
in co i only make wood lamellar
use bear armor if you're committed to not getting any underarmor
atomic roost
alright narrowing it done, caught this time around that from a completely clean ...
It was almost assuredly flawless, reporting there
fallow surge
It was almost assuredly flawless, reporting there
atomic roost
<https://mods.vintagestory.at/flawless> this?
yep, it definitely has some major threading bugs. And of course now the page is edited to say it's a buggy experimental proof of concept when that wasn't there at first lmao
lyric marsh
that's co for ya
green shadow
also Long Axe looking like it will do a lot of damage
fallow surge
It does do a lot of damage, if you can keep distance and hit stuff with its head and not handle
lyric marsh
longaxe is the long range directionless option for slashing
and those early ones look amazing
green shadow
beat up surface shiver to death with a club while wearing bear armor, feels good
oak harness
Try latest version of ovh lib
unfortunately, seems the issue is still occuring with overhaul lib 1.13.8 :(
fallow surge
unfortunately, seems the issue is still occuring with overhaul lib 1.13.8 :(
Unrelated to PML
oak harness
okay
oak harness
lmfao
fallow surge
I'm distracted
oak harness
You seem real busy all the time, sometimes i wonder if you ever truly take breaks
oak harness
go on a nature walk or something, get a real change in scenery to mentally detox yourself
lyric marsh
a walk through the russian swamps and commieblocks to soothe the soul
royal sierra
Swamps are nice
glacial dagger
hey
First, sorry for my English, it's the translator.
I have a strange problem: aged armor stands aren't working. I can't pick up the items they have. Does anyone know why this might be?
oblique bramble
A friend of mine cannot seem to swing his sword
Check if they have Immersive first person on
final garden
Check if they have Immersive first person on
They do not
He can't fire a crossbow, either
oblique bramble
i'd still get him to provide logs just incase it's replicable
to find source of issue, see if it's a fluke or if something went wrong somewhere
final garden
Yeah, I'll try
green shadow
found tiny amount of iron in the ruin, i think im gonna make myself an iron long axe
it is tier 4 slashing so it should piercing through low drifter resistances
on top of dealing heavy damage
fallow surge
A friend of mine cannot seem to swing his sword
installation issue, or they accidently hit hotkey for disableing animations (though then no tp animations on others either)
final garden
installation issue, or they accidently hit hotkey for disableing animations (tho...
Installation, even though he just restarted and it fixed?
fallow surge
Installation, even though he just restarted and it fixed?
if they didnt restart after installing the mod, then yeah, it wont work otherwise
always restart the game after changes in modlist of existing a world
final garden
Ooh, I don't know if they had to update or not. Probably did
green shadow
only locusts and bowtorn do piercing damage right?
i feel like i can get away with just chainmail and gambesson
fallow surge
yes
green shadow
i still dont have any leather, game refuses to give right trader with oak seeds, so i might have to buy gambesson
fallow surge
Locust, Bowtorns - piercing
Shivers, Carnivores - slashing
Drifters, Herbivores - blunt
wary swift
i still dont have any leather, game refuses to give right trader with oak seeds,...
You can also find acacia and oak seeds in ruins.
Poke your head into caves from time to time to see if there are any near the surface.
green shadow
so far i havent found any
wary swift
Translocator rooms have 2 chests and a bunch of crates.
And often those chests have either seeds or ores.
green shadow
i found 2 or 3, no luck so far
naive sedge
quick question... was the dmg calculations changed with the addition of the attack tier calculator in the armor tab?
fallow surge
No
naive sedge
aah ty
fallow surge
calculator show armor effect though, does not take into account body parts multipliers
naive sedge
so it IS normal for surface rust mobs to have 0 dmg while wearing bear armor set most of the time...
fallow surge
no
naive sedge
well the ones with 0 attack tier
fallow surge
argh, just fucking report whats going on, I hate when I have to draw the information out with tongs
0 attack tier deals 0 damage to any armor
only stones thrown by drifters have 0 attack tier
green shadow
drifter stones is the most annoying shit in existence, its good that they are completely negated by any armor
lyric marsh
they were added as a poor anti towering measure, but now that we have bowtorn this feature no longer has any use
tranquil onyx
Oh it has plenty of use in annoying people 
Also
I just recently gave Spears another pass, and honestly I’m getting quite the hang of it, with trying go fit the tip into rust things’ heads
I really like how the hit model for it isn’t exactly in the centre of the screen, so there is some difficulty in making a habit out of that
fallow surge
It should be in the center, at least at its furthest point
tranquil onyx
It should be in the center, at least at its furthest point
See - furthest distance is not always the one you will be fighting at, so maybe that’s why I got the impression - still, if feels natural and good
And frankly I prefer the 1h spear over the pike, as is; it’s a bit less clunky
lyric marsh
yeah i find myself cornerhitting instead of manually adjusting the range
the range adjustment is way more applicable on polearms
i don't use spear 1h, it's slow
fallow surge
Seems to hit the cetner
lyric marsh
the hit ends centered, but starts cornered
it's dynamic
i haven't tried javelins since they got a better animation, other than a quick creative test
gentle bane
Seems to hit the cetner
there is this "bug" where ppl who played older vs version will have different y hand position than 0 with all stuff co related, after changing it in game it gets magically fixed (or they are finding excuses for skill issue)
slim inlet
fervent spire
final garden
I noticed the stats for Rustbound's mage armour is sort of busted, maybe, from a balancing standpoint. When using CO, that is
It counts as outerlayer (plate layer), but has the stats of tailored gambeson (including 6 blunt for the apprentice mage gear)
Not sure if mage gear gets stronger for physical damage as you make the higher tiers, but it does mean you can have like 12 blunt resistance for each body part by pairing it with tailored gambeson
(I know that's more of something to discuss with Rustbound, but I wanted to hear people's thoughts on it and possible fixes)
fallow surge
I noticed the stats for Rustbound's mage armour is sort of busted, maybe, from a...
Address it to the author of rb
they have their own patches
final garden
Address it to the author of rb
Yeah, I will, I just wanted to see if I could find a solution for them beforehand to suggest something
I'm not sure if they use CO or not
naive sedge
Imo having the robes as outer layer prevents the use of heavy armors is very mage-esque
Cant just wear plate armor and have magical crutches from your pajamas right?
As for tge extra blunt protection... id just view it as magical bariers
fallow surge
Hm, should I make CO - pop-culture version, with all armor have 0 protection tier? (https://youtu.be/BIy2YVDbXhY?t=1724)
And brigandine renamed into studded leather
Also may be making all armor dirty and rusty...
gentle bane
add the reverse of it? 100% damage reduction unless you hit 0.01x hitbox between limbs?
fallow surge
What reverse? not-popular-culture?
gentle bane
of armor being made out of cardboard
lyric marsh
Hm, should I make CO - pop-culture version, with all armor have 0 protection tie...
you mean hollywood edition
but keep in mind if you make hollywood edition you will also need to make unrealistic swords and bows that you can hold forever
oh yeah and all weapons have the same swing speed
except axes which are suuuper slow
warm garden
Hollywood armory would just remove all weapons that are not swords or bows
warm garden
Hollywood armory sounds like a great idea for an april fools update, maltiez realy listened to community feedback with this one
Hopely it also includes an update to Firearms as well, reintroducing the reloading sounds, but they just play at random while at low stability
sterile forge
Fire 8 shots with a flitlock.
hardy wren
Fire 8 shots with a flitlock.
entirely possible
the lorenzi repeater and kalthoff repeater existed
sterile forge
Yeah but then maltiez would have to code a new weapon with another model and animation, and unless you have a spare 200-500 dollars on you, im not too sure of that.
Consider isntead: machine gun musket. How else would a movie hero dispatch of their enemies in the 17th century??
slate valve
Yeah, I will, I just wanted to see if I could find a solution for them beforehan...
Good luck, they hate CO with a passion. I tried to talk to them about balance and I got a speech about how "all mods share a house and expect there to be a sink, but CO replaces the sink with a toilet"
final garden
Good luck, they hate CO with a passion. I tried to talk to them about balance an...
I figured as much, that's why I wanted to discuss it here and come up with an alternative to give them instead of asking them to spend their time doing it
warm garden
Consider isntead: machine gun musket. How else would a movie hero dispatch of th...
I mean the simple and historical solution to this problem is just carry like 6 pistols at once
slate valve
Keeping the robes/hat/etc on the outer layer and reducing their defensive values to something like 1/1/1 seems... fine. That way mages only have skin and middle layer available if they want the mana regen and all the innate stuff, so they wouldn't have plate available at all. I'd have to check the spreadsheet to see how much that really hurts them end game
Part of the problem is that the offensive spells are not very good from what I remember, with very long casting times
I'm speaking from memory though
final garden
Keeping the robes/hat/etc on the outer layer and reducing their defensive values...
That's what made sense to me. My only real gripe was that it is super strong for how easy it is to get and can be paired with gambeson to make mages extreme anti-rust troops
slate valve
Yeah the current stats are not balanced at all
I don't think whoever did the stats took into account the layering system
fallow surge
Good luck, they hate CO with a passion. I tried to talk to them about balance an...
Was it on a stream?
slate valve
No, on their discord server
lyric marsh
fought erel with a longbow
being able to stay active for most of the fight (due to the range) is so much better
if we had more tools (like monster hunter) and if the boss didn't act like a gen 1 azure rathalos this coulda been a great fight
astral walrus
As of Overhaullib 1.13.10, the Inv Network crash still exists,
I tried checking to see if it was conflicting with Handytweaks by removing handytweaks, still happened
I know some people don't experience the inv network crash, so it's gotta be a conflict, I just haven't been able to find what it's conflicting with
brave canyon
Try removing half your mods and try to crash it, then if you are successful, the problem is in the mods loaded, if not - it’s in the half you took out.
Then keep repeating that until you find the mod in question
astral walrus
See I would do that if this was a single player problem-
It's a little trickier doing that with a dedicated server, plus I lack willing guinea pigs to do so in a seperate test server
normal zealot
for some reason the animations are playing but the mace isn't doing any damage whatsoever, the only mods I have are the kemono mod, rust magic mod, and the armory mod that requires this one, anyone have any ideas how to fix this?
final garden
for some reason the animations are playing but the mace isn't doing any damage w...
Have you restarted your game since installing CO?
oblique bramble
for some reason the animations are playing but the mace isn't doing any damage w...
I thought Kemono was incompat with Overhaul lib/CO? Did that change recently?
oblique bramble
I don't remember all about it, so take my statement with a large grain of salt
normal zealot
I don't remember all about it, so take my statement with a large grain of salt
yeah it works now, I'll use a different character mod unless you have any recommendations
oblique bramble
PML is designed to be compatible
there's a number of player models using PML, but they may not be what you're looking for
fallow surge
As of Overhaullib 1.13.10, the Inv Network crash still exists,
I tried checking ...
Send logs
stray chasm
How do bows compare to blackguard's melee damage?
stray chasm
Hunter with recurve & steel arrows
lyric marsh
and what weapon for the blaggard?
stray chasm
Any steel melee weapon
lyric marsh
Hunter with recurve & steel arrows
absolutely mad dps if you're not wearing heavy sleeves
whether blaggard can catch up depends on the weapon
stray chasm
I only ever messed with the greatswords and longswords as a blackguard
lyric marsh
well he has a prof with those
i would eyeball that without heavy sleeves the dps would be similar with a proficient weapon as blaggard
stray chasm
Alright thanks, I was considering picking hunter over blackguard but I didn't know if the dps from bows was worth the added annoyance of crafting and picking up arrows
lyric marsh
hunter is worth it if you're gonna use ranged
the 50% sway reduction feels more like 80%
and has both a crossbow and bow prof on top of that
and spear
and halberd thrown in there cause why not
stray chasm
I've messed with the crossbows and halberds before as a clockmaker
I didn't really care for the crossbows I had access to
lyric marsh
glockmaker balances out his gun prof by not having a prof with any strong melee weapons
lyric marsh
I didn't really care for the crossbows I had access to
you can buy composite prods from traders now
stray chasm
Yeah ik
stray chasm
you can buy composite prods from traders now
Are they worth buying? I don't remember the longbow and recurve bow being to difficult to craft
lyric marsh
crossbows absolutely mog bows
they have like a fourth of the sway and are typically a lot more applicable
stray chasm
They take longer to load tho right?
lyric marsh
bows are only better as hunter, with the prof
depends on prof
latch loads fast without prof, stupidly fast with it
stray chasm
What tier is the latch?
stray chasm
Yeah
I think I'll try hunter then
What's better for early game then? Bow or crossbow?
lyric marsh
as hunter, bow
don't bother with crude bow, hold w and make yourself a simple bow
simple bow can be converted into a simple crossbow but aa hunter it's a bit worse
stray chasm
Does More Arrows have bolt variants too or nah?
Or does Crossbows by itself come with them already?
stray chasm
Pierce is what rot creature are resistant to right?
stray chasm
I meant pierce mb
lyric marsh
if attack tier is equal or greater, you do full damage
longbow is tier 4 and later tier arrows add extra tiers
but yes rust creatures are piercing resistant
so you gotta use the higher tier crossbows and bolts
bows are better early for that reason
stray chasm
I'll probably run both a crossbow and bow then
More Arrows adds blunt arrows which is what I'll use for rot creatures
lyric marsh
poverty gun
stray chasm
Can you have multiple of the same sheath / sling equipped?
lyric marsh
no
stray chasm
Dangg
lyric marsh
they only go in their specific slots
stray chasm
Ig my clockmaker friend is just gonna have to carry all his stuff in his inventory
stray chasm
The big head one?
stray chasm
Does it do anything other than increased head damage taken?
lyric marsh
it's easier to be protected cause your torso is now effectively another limb
so a basic helmet and you're good to go
it halves torso damage
stray chasm
That's not bad then
lyric marsh
and that gun prof is essential
cause fuck if i'm going back to doing the reload animations at their normal speed
stray chasm
Fr
Did malefactor get anything new?
Ik they got that improvised sling but I think malefactor is the worst class rn
lyric marsh
malefactor is now a tank
takes less head damage
also the sling got buffed
it's actually quite decent + sprint friendly
clubs and axes profs are huge too
given the objectively best weapon is in the axe class
stray chasm
I can't see the swing speed making up for the -15% melee damage tho
lyric marsh
it matters so little i forget the classes even have that downside
stray chasm
How many creatures can hit the head?
stray chasm
I see
wary swift
Alright thanks, I was considering picking hunter over blackguard but I didn't kn...
Bow arrows last a really long time, if you manage to pick them up.
If you're not against things like that, then you could use mob radar or projectile radar to find them, cause their model blends in a lot of the times, especially if you shoot into a bush or something.
I use a recurve bow with steel arrows.
I crafted 9, and a backup of like 30 iron in the quiver. I still use the same steel arrows, but I lost 2 cause they flew in some unknown destination during a storm, and by the time I finished fighting they despawned.
I'm not a class with any relevant proficiencies, but it's still rather good.
I do use xskills though with a bunch of bonuses from there, so it's kind of balanced out.
lyric marsh
without such mods bows are frustrating to use as non hunters, i lower the bow sway to 70-80%, and without prof the dps is comparable/worse than crossbows (ignoring damage type)
all the bows are hella cheap and that's an advantage of sorts
wary swift
I made a crossbow for the other person I'm playing, but he prefers javelins, and I prefer a bow.
wary swift
We both have carbines, but without the ability to quickly take it out of inventory I rarely bother to use it.
I can also put out much more dps with a bow than a crossbow or a carbine.
Though I carry a longbow on my elk for if I want a heavier hitting bow to one shot some monsters reliably.
lyric marsh
you said you don't have the bow prof so a latch would be better
wary swift
Nah, xskills gives bonuses to damage with bows.
And sway reduction.
Which is why I said it's kind of comparable.
lyric marsh
(co doesn't use ranged weapon stats)
wary swift
Damage is higher, though.
lyric marsh
unless xskills explicitly patches that
wary swift
I tested it.
lyric marsh
then it does
wary swift
Xskills explicitly states it gives bonus damage to weapons from co.
As it is, crossbows and firearms also fall into that category.
But I draw a recurve faster than a latch, and a longbow gives much more hurt than a latch.
Though the ability to preload it is nice, but I got a carbine for that.
wary swift
I just prefer bows over everything else.
They feel the most fun to use.
In games Im usually either a mage or an archer, rarely a melee guy.
lyric marsh
i love co bows but it's a shame you have to be hunter to make them superior to the alternatives
stray chasm
Bow arrows last a really long time, if you manage to pick them up.
If you're not...
Yeah I'm already running a projectile tracker mod
fallow surge
I wrote the patches but forgot to apply them...
astral walrus
Oh, Oops
It happens
fallow surge
Oh, Oops
It happens
try .11
astral walrus
Will do tmr 👍
hardy wren
yeah it works now, I'll use a different character mod unless you have any recomm...
kemono is and will never be compatible with mods like CO
lyric marsh
the furries are simply migrating to pml now
hardy wren
yeah
hardy wren
the furries are simply migrating to pml now
expect for one server
but thats due to them running their own mod for kemono and for them to switch to pml they would need to create their own mods
hardy wren
what does this thing do
fallow surge
what does this thing do
Try equipping armor and see what changes
worldly summit
I think the latest version of Overhaul Lib might have fucked up the spears? no idea
This is just what happens when I try to change grip length
going back to 1.13.10 lets you change grip length again though
fallow surge
I think the latest version of Overhaul Lib might have fucked up the spears? no i...
Yeah, noticed that too... I dont remember removing it from spears. Any other polearms affected?
Oh, wait, I know the reason...
Will fix
worldly summit
yeah looks like the javelin also got affected
fallow surge
yeah looks like the javelin also got affected
try .12
worldly summit
Yep it works again
atomic roost
fallow surge
I know, I will look into it eventually
wooden field
Is there any potential for an offhand item to make javelins hit harder, like an amentum? A leather strip that was historically used to accelerate javelins further.
lyric marsh
recent atlatl mod says it'll add co compatibility
but i'm not sure as to what use it'll have
javelins already effectively fulfill that role
idk why this is such a common suggestion
wooden field
I think they just fit the later eras of technology more than an atlatl, they were still used in medieval Ireland for example, and they're used with javelins rather than darts
green osprey
Anyone having issues with the Armory Addition?
Says it's in my servers mod list but when I load into the World I don't get a download prompt and the items don't seem to be added
green osprey
Also, assuming these stats, what armor would you guys recommend?
I feel like Plate is out of the question cause of the Hunger Debuff making my already +30% hunger too extreme but idk
I made a set of Scale armor before downloading CO but that's Iron and I'm at Steel now
lyric marsh
same armor as you would normally use
this doesn't change much
try not to use full sets and figure out your own combinations of parts
lyric marsh
I feel like Plate is out of the question cause of the Hunger Debuff making my al...
hunger debuffs don't matter if you're eating meals
i have to keep being reminded armor even has a hunger stat
that's how little it matters
hunger is the least of your concerns when choosing armor, and you can't work around it regardless
green osprey
hunger debuffs don't matter if you're eating meals
Fair I suppose, just thinking about Dungeon Crawls is all
lyric marsh
you want good protection, chain+brig/plate but it is almost always overkill
my combo is full chain, brig chest, plate helmet, scale sleeves optional
pretty optimal armor setup
unless you're blaggard then you gotta cover your legs
green shadow
long axe is very powerful but underground need to put down light source first can be a serious vulnerabiltiy when you get jumped
i chop down drifters in three swings
fallow surge
long axe is very powerful but underground need to put down light source first ca...
there is a mod for head lamps
lyric marsh
with co it's pretty essential
and is a great implementation of handsfree lighting regardless
vanilla players are wanting a permanent handsfree lightsource..
atomic roost
when you code it
fallow surge
This a channel for a specific mod (not vanilla), why you asking this question here then. Go to #vintagestory
elder saddle
@fallow surge Question, im running a /debug logticks 500 and I keep seeing this fluctuate:
20.11.2025 01:59:39 [Server Notification] A tick took 714.71 ms
714.71ms, call : all
402.41ms, 5 calls, avg 80482.22 us/call: net-read-7
95.16ms, 425 calls, avg 223.91 us/call: gmleCombatOverhaul.Inputs.InInventoryPlayerBehavior```
with as some ticks going as high as 2000+ with CombatOverhaul being 500-600 of it.
I'm still looking into more detail, just wanted to know if there is something I can do to bring the `ms` down.
waxen birch
hello! i'm getting this log error when loading the game. not sure if it's actually significant (i am not a programmer at all 😅) but thought i'd run it through here and see if there's anything i can or should do about it:
19.11.2025 20:52:21 [Error] Patch 16 (target: game:entities/lore/bowtorn.json) in combatoverhaul:patches/entities/lore/bowtorn.json failed because supplied path /server/behaviors/8/aitasks/4/targetRange is invalid: The json path /server/behaviors/8/aitasks/4/targetRange was not found. Could traverse until /server/behaviors/8/aitasks/4, but then 'targetRange' does not exist. Full json at this path: {
"code": "fleeentity",
"entityCodes": [
"player",
"villager-*",
"trader-*",
"wolf-*",
"fox-*",
"hyena-*",
"bear-*",
"humanoid-villager-*"
],
"priority": 4,
"movespeed": 0.04,
"stepHeight": 8.1,
"seekingRange": 60,
"fleeingDistance": 60,
"cancelOnHurt": true,
"animation": "run",
"animationSpeed": 1.5,
"whenInEmotionState": "fleeondamage",
"targetRangeByType": {
"*-surface": 19.5,
"*-deep": 22.0,
"*-tainted": 25.5,
"*-corrupt": 29.5,
"*-nightmare": 33.5,
"*-gearfoot": 52.0
},
"targetRangeToleranceByType": {
"*-surface": 5.5,
"*-deep": 8.0,
"*-tainted": 11.5,
"*-corrupt": 15.5,
"*-nightmare": 19.5,
"*-gearfoot": 38.0
},
"searchRangeByType": {
"*-surface": 30.000002,
"*-deep": 36.0,
"*-tainted": 44.4,
"*-corrupt": 54.000004,
"*-nightmare": 63.600002,
"*-gearfoot": 108.00001
}
}
relevant versioning info:
game version 1.21.5
CO version 0.10.17
only other relevant mod i can think of is that i do have temporals reformed v. 0.1.0
i am running a HEAVY modlist but this looks like just an interaction between CO and vanilla mobs if i'm not completely mistaken
atomic roost
i am running a HEAVY modlist but this looks like just an interaction between CO ...
this error shows up with temporals reforged, both combat overhaul and temporals reforged modify the same stuff. according to the author of temporals reforged in their testing combat overhaul works fine on a surface level but it wasn't balanced for combat overhaul.
waxen birch
this error shows up with temporals reforged, both combat overhaul and temporals ...
gotcha, i'll definitely have to test it then. my friends really wanted CO and i really wanted temporals reforged so we'll have to see if they play nice enough together to keep. thank you!
elder saddle
@fallow surge So, we're working with a mod called "Ana's: flag of war" which is pretty much a consent command-based PvP Flag Mod.
Global Command: deathpunishment = keep
- When you /pvp on - you would lose your entire inventory including armor/ not clothes
- When you /pvp off - you're in PvE, and you do NOT lose your inventory/armor/clothes
How do I recognize the armor slots & vanity slots that CO/OverhaulLib provides?
fallow surge
<@263749013294153729> So, we're working with a mod called "Ana's: flag of war" w...
CO does not add vanity slots
fallow surge
<@263749013294153729> So, we're working with a mod called "Ana's: flag of war" w...
Look into the code? May be, dunno. Put stuff into slots, may be.
fallow surge
<@263749013294153729> So, we're working with a mod called "Ana's: flag of war" w...
Btw, they have added compat for CO?
elder saddle
Btw, they have added compat for CO?
We did
We have the permission to fork and do the CO compat
So you’re saying these 55 character slots addons have nothing to do with any of your mods?
fallow surge
There are two hooks for ranged and melee, so should've been pretty easy to add
fallow surge
So you’re saying these 55 character slots addons have nothing to do with any of ...
I'm saying they are not vanity slots
elder saddle
There are two hooks for ranged and melee, so should've been pretty easy to add
Already done, got it working on our test server
elder saddle
I'm saying they are not vanity slots
Oh? What are they?
fallow surge
Oh? What are they?
clothes, vanilla armor, CO armor, gear(equipment), slots opened by gear slots for more gear
elder saddle
clothes, vanilla armor, CO armor, gear(equipment), slots opened by gear slots fo...
Gotcha, and only way to know is to test each slot? No way on pinpointing what is what?
fallow surge
Gotcha, and only way to know is to test each slot? No way on pinpointing what is...
You can calculate what index is what slot manually, if you want: https://github.com/maltiez2/vsmod_Overhaullib/blob/master/source/Framework/Inventory/ArmorInventory.cs
They go in the order I listed them
I dont remember the exact indexes
fallow surge
Gotcha, and only way to know is to test each slot? No way on pinpointing what is...
Here:
the values
elder saddle
Here:
thanks appreciate it, trying to figure it out presently for the concept of what we wana do, as I mentioned in my original 1st message #1260976245374582886 message
elder saddle
Here:
issue we're having is, backpacks/hotbar drop, but not armor/clothes
based on how we're doing the flag of war mod
wooden field
For the open helms and light helms, is the protection only what is visibly defended? I.e. will a face shot ignore the protection of an open helm?
green osprey
Anyone have any solutions to Armory not deploying for a Multiplayer Server?
fallow surge
just fix the installation, nothing specific to armory here
green osprey
just fix the installation, nothing specific to armory here
Yea but what does that mean? Like how do I fix the install
fallow surge
Yea but what does that mean? Like how do I fix the install
the usual stuff, make sure mods are here, no duplicates, clear cache, restart the server/game, e.t.c. Ask in #mods-general
rotund vault
Hey Maltiez question about knockback in the latest versions of CO. What in particular has changed it to be so low? New weapon modifiers? OverhaulLib behavior? I'm trying to find a good way to re-balance combat for our server and add knockback back to the shield bashes, etc.
Of course I can just alter the knockback values of these attacks in the JSON but I wanted to know if there was a more fundamental change since Knockback seems to have been cut across the board for steel plate.
green shadow
wearing chain shirt and chain head armor underneath bear pelts was a good call
shame it looks so buggy and clippy
chain mid layer is the goat
really helps against shivers
went from tier 3 slashing to tier 5
alpine garnet
What's the point of changing grip positioning on a spear?
wary swift
The spears only hit with their tip, and also I think do less damage with longer grips.
So you exchange range for being able to hit things closer to you, and for more damage (citation needed for the damage part).
alpine garnet
Ahhhh
wary swift
Only wish the spear'd remember the grip, it's the only reason I'm not using them.
Well, not the only, I also use bows for range, but the most major one.
green shadow
wait, you can change spear grip?
does it work on other long weapons like long axe?
and what is the button for it?
i love long axe, malefactor is a secretely a melee class
lyric marsh
does it work on other long weapons like long axe?
only spear and polearms
longaxe isn't one of those, only the ones with directional attacks
sinful panther
You could do it with the steel poleaxe not long ago, don't know if you still can
It's short enough not to need it as is
gentle dock
You could do it with the steel poleaxe not long ago, don't know if you still can
you cant adjust the grip with the poleaxe anymore
sinful panther
Good
Last month i was playing a lot in my server and the bear armor was unusable, massive hit to manipulation in every piece, how much has that changed?
gentle dock
skin armour, scale and chain have had their penalties lessened and outer armours have gotten harsher penalties
light armour setups are viable now with skin + chain or skin + scale
tailor is even more useless
lyric marsh
i think we need to nerf tailor
make him feel bad for existing
for monopolizing the best vanilla surface armor
hardy wren
tailor as class is useless in base game
lyric marsh
(is actually the irreplaceable capitalist class)
fallow surge
move tailor discussion in another channel please
lyric marsh
-10 for all
hardy wren
lol why
eager shard
Cannot fix itemstack mapping, item/block id 593 not found in old mapping list. Will delete stack. (CombatOverhaul.Armor.ItemWearableArmor)
Getting this error about once every two seconds. How in the world do i fix this?
wooden field
I can't help you at all, but for the context of giving other people better info, does it only happen when you're in game and have you crafted any armour or especially are you wearing any and what sort?
eager shard
Its just spamming the console nonstop, no players online, players online, tried doing a full remap
nothing seems to work
its just every 2 seconds like clockwork im ending up with log files that are hundreds of megs
if i just let it go
cause sometimes it just goes ham and spams out multiable megs of the same message in seconds
iir list has 593: game:armor-body-antique-blackguard-broken
I dont even know what else infomation to try to give
wooden field
It's in the server's console?
eager shard
yes
its causing actual problems with how big the log files are getting
other wise it doesnt seem to cause any actual problems
lyric marsh
sounds like a bad install to me?
wooden field
Is it always antique blackguard armour?
lyric marsh
reinstall the mod
eager shard
I tried that
the error went away when combat overhaul is removed
comes right back when readded
lyric marsh
is ovhlib latest?
wooden field
Is it always the blackguard armour that causes it and have you any other mods that modify that piece of equipment?
eager shard
I have nothing else that touches blackguard armor to my knowledge
at least nothing that touches it explictedly
lyric marsh
any possible suspects?
eager shard
Aldis classes is my best guess?
But they have been together for a while on my server with out problem
few weeks
lyric marsh
well idk why i just tried running it again but indeed no issue on latest versions
eager shard
Yeah i dont have the problem on a single player server. Its just very annoying cause theres weeks worth of building on the server
but if i cant fix this its litterally eating into the storage limit of the server
naive sedge
tailored gambeson can only be repaired by tailor? am i seeing this right?
naive sedge
recipe conflict with wool & more?
twas my first instinct but it had the special steel sewing kit
lyric marsh
just checked, does indeed require tailor
oversight
probably hasn't been found yet because, who repairs armor?
rotund vault
Hey Maltiez question about knockback in the latest versions of CO. What in parti...
@fallow surge Apologies for the ping just wanted to see if you could give some insight.
green shadow
is there a way to hide armor display?
chain is clipping through bear armor and its looking really ugly
worldly summit
https://mods.vintagestory.at/vanity This maybe?
gentle dock
I've heard it has issues with CO and it hides all the layers so you can't only hide the chain armour
maybe someday someone will make a CO compatible vanity mod but alas
green shadow
why is there no iron-steel lamellae?
i know its supposed to be a crappy early game armor for when you dont have layers, but still
tier 5 all iron and tier 6 steel lamellae sounds kinda solid actually
lyric marsh
why is there no iron-steel lamellae?
can't cast iron
and in vanilla it's also balance reasons and a good excuse not to have it
iron rivet
Hold on why is bear hide armor made to have much worse drawbacks in CO than vanilla
iron rivet
it's the first "heavy armor"
So it's better than wood lamellar in co?
lyric marsh
wood lamellar has lower penalties and stats
but that takes all three layers
bear armor can be layered
(but it has not been visually adjusted yet so it will clip a lot)
iron rivet
bear armor can be layered
So it's not meant to be used on its own?
lyric marsh
it can be used on its own perfectly fine for stone age
in fact it's my goto
except the legs
the legs suck
unless you're blaggard
iron rivet
in fact it's my goto
Afaik vanilla bear hide is worse than wood lamellar
lyric marsh
vanilla bear armor is worthless yes
iron rivet
Alright good to know
lyric marsh
it's just vanity armor
iron rivet
it's just vanity armor
Is there a document with all the modified armor values
fallow surge
actually why isn't it pinned
Because only moderators could ping messages... When have this changed?
lyric marsh
in threads anyone can pin by default
fallow surge
this is not a thread though, it is a post in a forum
iron rivet
The document is not up to date though is it? Can't find bear hide on it.
lyric marsh
oh yeah malt hasn't "officially" implemented bear armor yet
hence why it hasn't been visually adjusted
but the spreadsheet is always up to date otherwise
iron rivet
but the spreadsheet is always up to date otherwise
So it could be subjected to balance changes still?
sterile forge
Vibe balancing my beloved.
gentle bane
better than rotting away in chat
iron rivet
Hold on how exactly is bear hide better than wood lamellar
Because it can be worn with things underneath? On it's own it's worse.
lyric marsh
Hold on how exactly is bear hide better than wood lamellar
low tier bears have -1 to all stats
iron rivet
low tier bears have -1 to all stats
And black is low tier I take?
lyric marsh
yes
iron rivet
I see.
lyric marsh
brown and polar are the apex bears
iron rivet
So low tier bear hide is still trash
near valve
bear armor users suffering for all eternity
bear skin is better for pelts and leather anyway
both of which will help you craft better armor
wary swift
Is there a way to change animation speed for certain weapons? I am using a mod that adds more weapons, the weapon I'm aiming to get uses the shortsword animation, but I don't want to just speed up all the animations, I want only the specific tiers to get this bonus.
A way without just making 2 animation sets with different speeds, I guess.
iron rivet
I probably don't need to ask but is scale actually worth it with CO
lyric marsh
yes
but i would recommend only the sleeves and pants
chest and helmet is more just budget
split verge
the budget option is fine 99% of the time tho
near valve
scale chest with chain head and open helmet + skin armor is a great traveling setup
that plus a shield makes you invincible on the surface
fallow surge
Is there a way to change animation speed for certain weapons? I am using a mod t...
Yes, each stance in itemtype attribute can have AttackSpeedMultiplier field
wary swift
Yes, each stance in itemtype attribute can have `AttackSpeedMultiplier` field
Oh, thank you.
I looked through a few of the already existing items and didn't see any examples of this, probably looked at the wrong ones.
fallow surge
wary swift
I see, I only looked at jsons.
iron rivet
By the way why was the durability of wood lamellar increased to 1000 for the chest + sleeves
lyric marsh
that's all armor
look at steel plate
yeah durability needs a rework but it's increased because of how durability damage works in co
you take one durability for every point of damage the hit would do unprotected
slate valve
has the long axe hitbox been changed? maybe it's my imagination but hitting is way more consistent now, it feels really good to use. I'm using the tin bronze version and it's kicking ass
lyric marsh
hit detection code was improved
fallow surge
has the long axe hitbox been changed? maybe it's my imagination but hitting is w...
Several months ago
lyric marsh
yes longaxe is great now
slate valve
it's very satisfying
lyric marsh
inspired by that one guy who wanted to comm alt shortswords?
wait does this replace sabres?
cause those already were 1h swords
rapid basalt
is there a spreadsheet for creature/enemy resistances? I saw the one that has damage by enemy and has the player armor stats. I'm in the process of making multiple mobs and was thinking about compatibility with CO
atomic roost
Arming and broad sword?
fallow surge
wait does this replace sabres?
nope
fallow surge
Arming and broad sword?
try them out
brave canyon
Ooh, that looks neat
surreal sapphire
I like the new arming swords they seem like a good all rounder option. Something to fix though is that the handles for them look like the blackguard short sword when sheathed. Additionally the short sword variants for iron and meteoric iron have the handles from their previous models when sheathed. @fallow surge
fallow surge
I like the new arming swords they seem like a good all rounder option. Something...
I know, they will need custom models for sheaths
green shadow
why is regular gambesson an iron technology?
you need iron nails to make armored kits
fallow surge
search for key words in this post
green shadow
im a bit frustrated how every other is mod catering towards tailor
cant even have a gambesson now
fallow surge
tailor gets gambeson one tier earlier
green shadow
tailor also gets best underlayer , exclusive recipes, discounts on crafts ect ect ect
fallow surge
Some ppl complain about talior being worthless other it being op...
Whats the problem again? How iron tier gambeson relates to tailor?
green shadow
you need iron nails for armored kits, tailors only needs bronze ones
green shadow
i suppose that makes sense, just getting annoyed how a lot of mods seemed to be hell bent on giving tailor more advantages
fallow surge
Ppl constantly complain about tailor being worthless, so this is expected.
surreal sapphire
last world I played I had iron before my first flax harvest, honestly getting iron as fast as you can feels too important I only ever make a bronze pick and anvil then its out to find iron.
kind epoch
same, i wish there was a reason to stick around in bronze but mid tier tools in every game always end up just being used to just get to the next tier 🤷♂️
near valve
i suppose that makes sense, just getting annoyed how a lot of mods seemed to be ...
tailor needs more advantages
it is objectively horrible without them
full bobcat
The combat interface does not appear. I am uncertain why, as I am not using Reshade or any incompatible mods.
It seems that the rest of the mechanics work, but the interface for melee weapons simply does not appear.
atomic roost
many weapons don't have it
full bobcat
why
so that only work in some weapons or is somenthing you are alredy working and i just come to be annoying
warm garden
so that only work in some weapons or is somenthing you are alredy working and i ...
The interface is only for weapons that have directional attacks, and not all weapons have them, and some lose the ability to do directional attacks while held in one hand
green shadow
im thinkin of wasting some fire clay just to smelt single iron ingot from ore i found in a ruin
just to make gambesson
green shadow
finally, bye bye shitty bear armor
gonna upgrade to bronze chain soon
if i had 1 more iron nail i could made an iron club
lyric marsh
keep it for a gun
green shadow
im not a glockmaker
lyric marsh
matchlocks
i just tried arming swords, they're sweet
like a beginner's directional weapon
also damn sabre is fast now
iron rivet
Wait is there a new update
lyric marsh
new swards
gentle dock
i suppose that makes sense, just getting annoyed how a lot of mods seemed to be ...
this is an advantage for tailor?... lmao what
green shadow
this is an advantage for tailor?... lmao what
tailor gets:
-unique crafting recipes for clothes (even more so from mods)
-best underlayer armor in the game, that can also be dyed to look pretty
-easier access to gambesson (bronze tier, everybody else can craft it at iron tier)
other mod i play with also give tailor much cheaper recipes for linen twine and sails
enough is never enough for tailors
lyric marsh
tailor is perfectly fine in vanilla and i will stand by that
but in co he ought to get a boon since his trademark item can now be crafted by anyone
green shadow
trademark item? You mean tailored gambeson?
green shadow
recipe is not restricted to tailor itself, but its crafting components are
lyric marsh
no, it can be crafted by anyone at steel now
or meteoric as tailor (which isn't a very meaningful difference)
green shadow
green shadow
once again, Tailors Delight/Dressmakers is backstabbing me in the back gah
lyric marsh
no you can still just do it the normal way
hence why i said look below
for some colors like brown you don't even need mordant
green shadow
disregard everything i said
i was having a gamer moment
other classes getting tailored gambesson at steel is fair
so tailors get gambessons a tier earlier basically, regular one at bronze and advanced one at iron
lyric marsh
meteoric
which is closer to steel
i would give tailor a flat 10% manipulation boost
green shadow
makes sense
dexterous fingers and all that
worse then dedicated weapon specialisation but universal to everything
gentle dock
tailor gets:
-unique crafting recipes for clothes (even more so from mods)
-bes...
I mean this change was a direct nerf to tailor
Tailor went from being the only class able to make tailored gambeson at the stone age if one wanted to try and grow enough flax without ever casting metal to losing exclusive access to tailored gamby and they also need an iron anvil before they can make tailored gamby
green shadow
whats the difference with shields and which one should i get? If any
lyric marsh
Fuck you treasure hunter I won't need to dish out 50 gears
not related to co, but wait til
you find out how you actually TAME an elk, then you'll reconsider
lyric marsh
whats the difference with shields and which one should i get? If any
tiers
green shadow
bronze
green shadow
i was thinking of making heavy bronze shield + mace
lyric marsh
that protects against almost anything
but keep in mind offhanding tower shields has a 10% movement penalty
and an additional 50% while blocking
light shields have no downsides
green shadow
either that or i use long axe without a shield, its been pretty fun so far
but long axe starts to fall off when i go deeper
green shadow
im a malefactor so i would like to stick to clubs or maces
ig with a shield i dont have to carry that much metal on me?
lyric marsh
why would you even carry metal on you
green shadow
i mean, metal armor
lyric marsh
you should always wear at least skin and chain
green shadow
i have full gambesson and i was going to wear full chain on top of it
lyric marsh
that's good enough
green shadow
no need to wear plate on top?
gonna make a club with a light shield
lyric marsh
plate chest is almost free
i like to have it on
open helmet is also next to free, the main cost is making it
green shadow
okay, i will see how much metal i have first
lyric marsh
pretty much a meta light armor setup
the max protection for the lowest downsides possible
iron rivet
not related to co, but wait til
you find out how you actually TAME an elk, then ...
Whoops sorry I thought this was #vintagestory
green shadow
hf forging armor takes forever
slate valve
hf forging armor takes forever
If you have a helve hammer and don't feel like smithing plate, brigandine is a cheap (time-wise) alternative
lyric marsh
brig doesn't have alt helmets though
green shadow
i accidentally smithed full helmet instead of light helmet
sure why not, using sling underground is cumbersome anyway
sling feels to me more like a hunting weapon
lyric marsh
since it's blunt it's most fit to fight monsters
unless you have guns or blunt arrows
green shadow
its good against animals smaller then a bear, 3 shots to kill a goat or moose
lyric marsh
then those are superior
lyric marsh
its good against animals smaller then a bear, 3 shots to kill a goat or moose
arquebus oneshots moose
green shadow
arquebuss isnt stone/copper age tool
im using lead bullets, with malefactor damage bonus they are pretty good against animals
lyric marsh
just saying for the future
try matchlocks when you get your iron
you won't regret it
getting iron asap is a very effective and efficient thing to do if you're not artificially restricting yourself like me
green shadow
i remember arquebus was pretty decent hunting weapon
but with sling i can roleplay as my hero - nameless skaven slave slinger
even with this much armor, sling feels good to use
lyric marsh
glockmaker type fit
since you're at bronze you can make a stirrup crossbow
though a crossbow prof really makes it shine, it's still great with normal classes
green shadow
its mostly a hunting weapon, without high tier bolts at least
i probably should not have made helmet this heavy, on account me taking reduce head and face damage
lyric marsh
yeah glockmaker fit on the class opposite to glockmaker
green shadow
cant spin sling with a shield
green shadow
feels like i wasted 7 ingots worth of bronze
green shadow
gonna leave helmet and a shield at home, for decor
iron rivet
What armor should I bring to ||the archives|| with CO? Iron brigandine? Heard the boss gets a lot tougher with this mod.
green shadow
i think it does like tier 7 blunt attacks
iron rivet
In vanilla I used to bring iron chain but now it's no longer up to the task.
iron rivet
i think it does like tier 7 blunt attacks
So I'm supposed to have plate or steel before the first damn story area?
iron rivet
you can go lower
Brigandine or scale?
lyric marsh
brig is just cheap plate so it counts the same
iron rivet
What's the cheapest armor I can be comfortable running with
iron rivet
for the entire ra if you wanna be comfortable you go iron plate/brig
No leg protection?
green shadow
bronze plate with gambesson is 60% reduction against tier 7 blunt
iron rivet
Okay. Would wearing chain under the brigandine pieces actually do anything though
lyric marsh
Okay. Would wearing chain under the brigandine pieces actually do anything thoug...
dude
chain is implied
you don't use plate without chain
cause plate has the big downsides
chain has little to none
so you always wear chain before you think of adding plate
the stats chain adds are crucial, though it adds no blunt
iron rivet
cause plate has the big downsides
I thought the heavy armors' thing was that they could be used with more layers underneath.
lyric marsh
but you won't ONLY be seeing blunt
green shadow
you will thank your chain armor when a high tier shiver tries to chomp you
shivers are nasty
lyric marsh
I thought the heavy armors' thing was that they could be used with more layers u...
counterproductive to use the layer with the biggest downsides first
you lose its advantages without the reinforcement
iron rivet
you lose its advantages without the reinforcement
I'm having trouble understanding what you've written here
lyric marsh
plate's advantage of extreme defense is nullified if it's not reinforced by the protection added by the layers beneath it
so you just get a mediocre armor than has major downsides
iron rivet
plate's advantage of extreme defense is nullified if it's not reinforced by the ...
So chain must be used under plate
lyric marsh
yes
iron rivet
Okay now I'm just confused
fallow surge
Bolotnik means that if you want to min-max debufs/protection you need to wear chain under plate
If you want to min-max this, yeah
green shadow
scale armor exists as an alternative, might as well use it if dont wanna equip chain
fallow surge
Otherwise stats are visible and there is no hidden stuff, so wear what you feel you want
iron rivet
How does it work? Admittely I don't have the clearest idea of how protection and layers are made.
fallow surge
They just add
lyric marsh
armor tab now has a defense calculator
green shadow
it explains it for you in the game, there is a convinient chart
lyric marsh
all layers' defenses are added together
iron rivet
it explains it for you in the game, there is a convinient chart
In the guide?
lyric marsh
armor tab
iron rivet
I didn't notice anything in the armor tab, my bad.
lyric marsh
set the attack tier, and it shows how much your current armor protects against it
you may be using an older version
iron rivet
Ah the sliders.
Also, how is the eidolon changed? I know it has glowing weak points now so I can't just around the room pelleting it with arrows blindly.
iron rivet
Okay. The health hasn't changed?
lyric marsh
hitting almost anywhere else does no damage
that's the trick
and it no longer has horrendous lingering attacks
iron rivet
Is the eye weak to a damage type specifically
fallow surge
Okay. The health hasn't changed?
halved, if I remember correctly, to make it less grindy and repetitive
iron rivet
halved, if I remember correctly, to make it less grindy and repetitive
Honestly thank you for that
green shadow
i cheated and changed my full helmet for open helmet, they cost the same
dont judge me!
i wanted to make open helmet in the first place
iron rivet
Uh is gambeson also sort of necessary or optional
lyric marsh
don't feel bad for gm c, game isn't exactly finished
no reason not to wear it
unless you just don't have it
green shadow
Uh is gambeson also sort of necessary or optional
gambesson is awesome
fallow surge
Uh is gambeson also sort of necessary or optional
There is no good reason to not wear it
lyric marsh
gambeson is huge blunt protection for almost nothing
fallow surge
You always want to wear underarmor
iron rivet
I read the only thing it has going for it is blunt so it has to be worn under something else, it's nearly useless on its own?
lyric marsh
it adds 1 to the other tiers
fallow surge
It isnt, it is same armor as all other armors, just different stats
lyric marsh
which can make a big difference depending on matchup