Combat Overhaul

[final garden]

Yeah, this was definitely the better choice

[fallow surge]

Hm, you didnt add visor hud effect/overlay for vanilla helment?

[final garden]

I did, actually. I recall testing it and it working. Is it not working?

[fallow surge]

Nope, may be because of CO

[final garden]

Oh wait, you mean the vanilla plate helmets?

Not visors at all

[fallow surge]

Yes

[final garden]

OH! No, I didn't. Though it'd make sense to

[fallow surge]

Also light helemt from armory should have one, may be less severe

[fallow surge]

You can make a config option

[final garden]

Yeah, sounds like a good idea

[fallow surge]

Will look into config in a sec btw

[faint bough]

a

dont mind me testing smthn

[fallow surge]

Btw, try fiddling with Z offset or render order to render overlay behind UI

[final garden]

Sure thing! I actually had some people mention they liked that it covered the UI a bit, surprisingly, so I might make that a config as well

Just so I have this correct: Plate is healing 0.03 per slot, hunger 0.04 per slot. Middle layer is healing 0.03 per slot, hunger 0.03 per slot?
Plate face and neck is manipulation 0.025 per slot, 0.05 steadyAim per slot. Middle layer face and neck is manipulation 0.0 per slot, 0.025 steadyAim per slot?

(0.025 rounded up to 0.03)

[fallow surge]

There is this table https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DJzwPXaMZL3HfAC2N7zUcmRRIUSrGTB7oO7Q5fszqz8/edit?usp=sharing

[fallow surge]

For bg and forlorn you need to deduce it from their stats, they are not equivalent to mail+plate

[fallow surge]

Plate and brigandine is 0.03 and 0.04, scale and mail 0.03 and 0.03, underarmor 0.03 and 0.01

per slot

[final garden]

Ah, alright. I was just trying to math out a rough solution. (By my math, "PlayerStats": {"walkspeed": 0, "manipulationSpeed": -0.03, "steadyAim": -0.11, "healingeffectivness": -0.12, "hungerrate": 0.14})

[fallow surge]

Plate neck or face:

{"walkspeed": 0, "manipulationSpeed": -0.03, "steadyAim": -0.04, "healingeffectivness": -0.03, "hungerrate": 0.04}

Plate head:

{"walkspeed": 0, "manipulationSpeed": 0, "steadyAim": -0.02, "healingeffectivness": -0.03, "hungerrate": 0.04}

Hm, wait...

Lets neck or face have "manipulationSpeed": -0.03 but when combined "manipulationSpeed": -0.05

[final garden]

Yeah, that's what I meant by 0.025 (but round 0.025 to 0.03)

How does this look for blackguard/forlorn (Bear in mind I haven't updated the protection values yet)

Interesting, so blackguard is better than forlorn, but with heavier penalties?

[fallow surge]

Forlorn has way lighter debufs than plate+main, and bg has better protection and way higher debufs

I would not say that one is strictly better

[final garden]

Makes sense

[gentle dock]

FH pants + BG helmet/chestpiece shrimple as

[brave canyon]

Alrighty, I pushed the update and everything after fixing another bug haha

So the Tags are all in the newest version, Malt!

And should be automatically adding them to anything falling under the configs as well

(I have no idea how this will effect liquids, cause technically they are getting tagged as well, lol)

I imagine it shouldn't matter... cause they can't be picked up normally, but hah.

[oblique bramble]

How do I change the texture of Combat Overhaul weaponry?
I want to change the Meteoric Iron texture from just flat white to something else, but I can't seem to find the mapping

[quiet skiff]

hmm, cant find the item code for bear hide armor, anyone happen to know where to find it?
nvm found it

[hollow pasture]

Go into the mod files for armory or combat overhaul depending on what you have and just edit it in gimp or something

[hollow pasture]

I'd also absolutely love a way to make the visored helmet overlay more obstructive if there's any way to do that...

[final garden]

There certainly is. A few ways, actually. The easiest would just be to apply an increased 'zoom' on Spang's amazing shader, but the way I was hoping to eventually do is create new vertex shaders for each helmet

[hollow pasture]

Is that a simple json value I can adjust? Could I scale it more on the y than x axis?

[final garden]

Currently, no, but I've been thinking of making it one so that any helmet can have vignettes

[hollow pasture]

🙏

[final garden]

It's on the list of plans for the VH overhaul

[final garden]

@fallow surge Do you think scale helmets should also have the overlay visored helmets apply?

Currently it is just plate and light helmets

[brave canyon]

Hmm. @fallow surge , have you had any luck with the Tags stuff on your end? I'm noticing now that in a multiplayer environment, the tags don't appear to exist on the clientside at all which... is frustrating to say the least.

[fallow surge]

As I said, if you add them via code in runtime you need to sync them yourself

[brave canyon]

I checked both items that I added tags to myself, and the vanilla Falx, since it has the Weapon and Weapon-melee in the json

It doesn't appear to sync either of these

I was worried about the syncing required but, it just seems even the Json-defined ones appear to not exist?

The bit masks should likely have something stored on them, right?
https://i.imgur.com/GeRegUA.png

This is the Iron Falx

[fallow surge]

tags that I added via json patches on server side works just fine for me

[brave canyon]

Hmm. In multiplayer does it show you the tags on the item tooltips fine? I wonder if maybe I desync'd it all so hard it just failed to run anything.

[fallow surge]

Yeah, I see

[brave canyon]

It does show them?

[fallow surge]

In MP they are not synced for some reason, it is vanilla issue

[brave canyon]

Ah. Crap. Okay.

That’s what I feared then, damn.

Thank you for confirming it though, I hope it can get sync’d soon. Maybe I could see about opening an issue or fix it as well, heh.

I wonder if it’s true for even Entities as well, I’d assume so, but I did see a wolf with state tags on its inspection panel.

[solid mist]

Will we get more compat patches with flora zones?

[final garden]

Since I need to actually consider what the bevor looks under the helmet now that I'm making the bevor its own thing... Should I just remove this angle for the back or set it to be lower? Angled is how it actually looks under the helmet, but obviously that is sort of dorky. I can absolutely make angled work, though, but most bevors seem to go up in the front rather than the back

I think I put that angled piece just to hide details and make it look better from the opened front

[solid mist]

I tjought Bevors only sit on the chestplate and cover the front half.

[final garden]

Some cover the back as well

[solid mist]

I think the second one looks nicer

[final garden]

Yeah, probably. It's simpler and easier to do

[lyric marsh]

is durability on iron spears supposed to be lower than bronze?

one of those things i keep forgetting to bring up

another is that armor repair recipes don't match their components

seems many armors still use their vanilla repairs

chain needs leather, scale needs chain, plate needs leather and chain etc

[subtle sundial]

@fallow surge Just pinging you to let you know I did a few pull requests on some of the combat overhaul mods relating to the french translation. Quivers, tabards and combat overhaul itself. Armory didn't need an update since I worked on it so I left it as is, and I need to check out the others to see what I can do but you can expect pull requests for them in the near future too.

[echo monolith]

hey all im having an issue with combat overhaul

im on 1.21.4 and its been working for me, but my friend has been trying to use it but it doesn't load properly, and the top directional attack always shows even when not having a weapon

[brave canyon]

He probably didn’t install it correctly or the game bugged out.

Try clearing the mod cache and ensuring that he has everything downloaded properly and the right versions if you manually installed it

[blazing elk]

Ahoy! Is there a way to disable the overhaul library while using the mining animations mod that has the library as a dependency? I couldn’t find the correct config.

[echo monolith]

how do you clear the mod cache? and how do we make sure it's downloaded properly. it's def the right version as it's 1.21.4

[brave canyon]

You mean Tools Animations? It’s been broken into it’s own mod now

[hollow pasture]

ovh is a dependency though afaik

[brave canyon]

Oh I see

But the library doesn’t do anything on its own?

It’s just a library

[brave canyon]

The second part is easy, it’ll work :P - but the first part, go to the main menu, click on Mod Manager, then in the lower corner there’s a button for “Open Mods Folder”

Click that, then go up a folder, to VintageStoryData. You’ll see a bunch of folders here like logs, mods, ModConfig… so on. Delete the one named “Cache”, and if this is a server, there should be some server data folder that holds the mods downloaded from the server itself?

I think in there is either another cache, or just try deleting the server’s files so it redownloads again

[echo monolith]

ah okay,

he's on a singlepalyer world testing it

[brave canyon]

Oh okay

[echo monolith]

he deleted cache but still to no avail

[brave canyon]

Then ignore the bit about the server files

You might have to just delete the mods from the folder and redownload them. Ensure you have the right version for your game, too.

And that he has his game version matching yours

[echo monolith]

okay gotcha, ty

[brave canyon]

No worries! Hopefully it helps, this issue is mainly just an installation one

[blazing elk]

The library seemed to have all the Combat Overhaul inventory slots activated. So I had to deactivate it to get the inventory back to normal.

[final garden]

Is this the work of an enemy spy the auto-patcher? It's supposed to be just outer neck. Perhaps I'm just making JSON mistakes, though

[final garden]

Nevermind, I was just making JSON mistakes

As part of making the bevor separate, I've been toying with letting more hair visible in the sallet, and it actually sort of works. What do you think, @hollow pasture @fallow surge

[hollow pasture]

Do you know of any current hair combinations that would cause major clipping?

[final garden]

Well, a big bad one I've seen is dreadlocks

[hollow pasture]

And would you be able to cull specific parts of the underlying character?

[final garden]

The dense dreadlocks work fine, but the standard are set up wrong, so the dreads stay even in my standard helmets that allow any hair

Dreadlocks :/. Unless I completely hide hair (which means no long hair or at all visible hair) the dreads stick out

Dense dreadlocks don't have that problem!

Which means it probably falls into the same category as some of the other hairs, and the VS team hasn't set up their tags properly

[hollow pasture]

If it's literally only 1 hairstyle that causes issues, then I think it 100% should become standard

[final garden]

So far, that's all I've found, but people have had a couple other bugs with the hairs simply because they aren't set up correctly and a few of the bangs, like the dreads, don't get removed when you hide bangs. It's a problem even for some vanilla helmets

Without the bevor and without the sallet.

[hollow pasture]

I wouldn't build your mod around vanilla bugs that will probably get patched, and I think that's currently the same philosophy furthered by Maltiez with a lot of the bear nonsense

Also that bevor looks so tuff with the long hair flowing around it

[final garden]

Fair enough. Seems to work, though. And in theory I could put these changes onto the merged vanilla helmet, too. So that players will actually be able to see their hair flowing out under their sallet and over the bevor

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, there'd be no reason not too

[fallow surge]

...

Too many traits...

I dont feel like fixing it in CO

[final garden]

Oh jeeze. High jumps, now?

Looks like I'll need to wear pants sooner

[fallow surge]

Yeah, you can just jump at 1.5 block, instead of 1.2

But you should not ignore leg protection

[final garden]

Ah, alright, so nothing extreme

I usually don't ignore leg protection, but I do tend to ignore all protection until I have bronze or iron (usually iron)

[fallow surge]

You can jump at a slab on a block now

barely

[final garden]

@fallow surge Did you want the bevor models for your own armory stuff or was it a pet peeve that they were meeged with the helmet?

Also trying to think of how players should craft it. It seems like players shouldn't have to spend extra resources just for the steel variant, but it also seems counter-intuitive to make the helmet recipe produce both helmet and bevor, since then you'll always make the helmet even if all you need was the bevor

[fallow surge]

It just was a missed oportunity

[final garden]

Yeah, I agree

In theory, somebody could pair the bevor with another helmet that doesn't cover the neck, now. Not sure if that'd be beneficial though

Not sure if it's any better to pair an open helmet with the bevor over just making the visored helmet

[fallow surge]

Use https://mods.vintagestory.at/playermodellib if this bug bothers you

I added scroll area to class tab in it

[supple radish]

Question.

It is possible to lock into a single direction?

I keep hitting my friends by accident with the sideswings.

[tender scroll]

Tell them to just get out of the way 🧠

[earnest forge]

Spears are good for group combat

[solid mist]

is there a chance for a lance in the future? Since we have mounts

[rigid mortar]

merge one and two handed swords

[final garden]

I'm not Maltiez, so I can't say, but I think he largely prefers to avoid non-military equipment. Might be a fun idea, though

[solid mist]

But a lance is a piece of military equipment

[final garden]

You're right! I was mistaken. I was thinking only of jousting lances

[solid mist]

it would be funny (and impractical as hell) to be able to use the pike on horseback and give it a speed damage boost

[final garden]

I know Mount and Blade did that, could always get a little damage boost by moving quickly on a mount, and moving at a high speed for a bit would cause your character to couch their lance

[hollow pasture]

You can use a pike from horseback, but only standard damage

[hollow pasture]

config lib lets you bind attacks to movement keys

[lyric marsh]

also you can reduce the direction switch sensitivity so only exaggerated swipes are registered as a direction switch

you can finetune it

[oblique bramble]

for hypothetical horse combat, maybe there should be a functionality to "hold" the attack key on a melee weapon to keep the weapon in attack position while on a mount? bonus damage for relative velocity

[fallow surge]

I will probably not look into elk and mounts until 1.22

[ripe relic]

We are in 1.22?

[lyric marsh]

good buff to malefactor and good balance for blackguard

[tranquil onyx]

We are in 1.21

[lyric marsh]

i assume malefactor was buffed because the class had no major advantage?

[fallow surge]

No, I needed to add a positive buff with new traits, and this was the best candidate.
Also dont see how malefactor is different from hunter, for example, in terms of "major advantage".

[lyric marsh]

hunter has bow and crossbow profs which make it the dominant ranged class aside from guns

malefactor makes slings which are great but don't hold their power later into the game

now malefactor has an edge in making the most vulnerable part of the body less vulnerable

[fallow surge]

Updated sling with lead bullets in hands of malefactor will outperform bows when targeting monsters

[lyric marsh]

that is true

[fallow surge]

Thinking about adding +50% damage to head/face and -50% damage to torso to clockmaker... Dunno how to call the trait though

[lyric marsh]

eggheaded

i think that would be a very strong trait though

as you can easily wear a light helmet and your torso effectively becomes a limb

[fallow surge]

Torso armor does not provide that much debufs though, but it makes an outfit with priority to head more viable

Also on average for unarmored player it increases damage received by 30%

[lyric marsh]

that's the thing that causes the imbalance i think

[fallow surge]

What imbalance?

[lyric marsh]

torso armor is too easy to wear, and now that takes half damage

that makes clockmaker a tank

[fallow surge]

nope

it makes torso armor less needed

The piece of armor that provides the less debufs

Also already vulnerable head now receives even more damage

[lyric marsh]

hm, would need to see that in practice

i think it would make clockmaker the best tank class

[fallow surge]

42% of hits goes into torso, but 25% goes into head

[lyric marsh]

yeah i would need to try it

[fallow surge]

0.92 expected damage for default
1.17 for clockmaker
If we consider only head and torso

So with same armor clockmaker will receive 27% more damage than commoner

To torso+head

So nope, I would disagree with "it would make clockmaker the best tank class"

[plain crypt]

What is the new trait for Blackguard? The list is so long it vanish under the box for temp and time

[fallow surge]

#1260976245374582886 message

temp and time?

[plain crypt]

the envoriment "box" when you press c

[fallow surge]

...
No, no, no, I'm not going thorugh it again. You can report on vanilla issue tracker that this window is badly designed. I wont touch vanilla ui for some time at least, I had enough pain with last scroll area I added.

[plain crypt]

Its fine. Nothing i need to report or you or anybody. I saw the new trait and could read what it does. But maybe you can answer me what the 25% jump height has as use. Saw no different in the ability to jump on things.

[fallow surge]

You can now jump on top block+slab

it is increased from 1.2 to 1.5 block

[plain crypt]

Interesting. Thx.
Just because it happens. A boar ca now kill you, when you have no armor, with good to hits to your knees.
No complain. Just something that happend a minute ago

[tranquil onyx]

Mind over Matter

[tranquil onyx]

Getting 200/250% damage (if additive) or 225/300% damage (if multiplicative) to the head area is not a good time

[fallow surge]

multiplicative

[tranquil onyx]

It would 1) make you REALLY want to get a helmet early on if you engage in combat frequently, and 2) make combat in general less consistent for Clockmaker

[plain crypt]

that can oneshot you

[fallow surge]

good, you should avoid engaging in melee playing as clockmaker

[tranquil onyx]

I mean, I agree; I’d argue that having the -melee damage penalty is a reason enough, but I kind of like different classes having defensive strengths and weaknesses

[lyric marsh]

quarterstaff block (his proficiency) doesn't protect head

hmm

or wait does it lemme doublecheck

yeah it doesn't

maybe a different prof then?

[fallow surge]

Only heavy shields and parries protect head

[plain crypt]

Such traits should have perhaps the option to be optional?

[fallow surge]

Nope, traits and classes are not configurable

[lyric marsh]

i meant more conceptually

maybe spear prof for keeping distance?

[fallow surge]

quarterstaff is fine

[lyric marsh]

sure

[fallow surge]

spears are for hunter

Also, the mod provides tools to solve these problems. Mix and match armor, invent strategies. This is a game, not a cookie-clicker Bad example...

[lyric marsh]

i guess a better way to put it would be
the helmet is the lightest and cheapest part of your kit, so achieving reasonable protection is significantly easier

[plain crypt]

I am worried what happens if a bowtorn hits your head.

[tranquil onyx]

Well, you get hit for like 4 damage base to the head~~/neck~~ and 3 for face;

If I read that correctly, Clockmaker would instead be hit - if that perk is implemented - for 6 if they’re hit in the head~~/neck~~, and 4.5 if face

[fallow surge]

neck is not affected by the trait, btw

[tranquil onyx]

Oh, so just face and head?

[fallow surge]

yes

[lyric marsh]

big win for light helmet gang

[still wave]

i think you can json patch it, there are tutorials for it in the wiki if i'm not mistaken

[plain crypt]

If my math is not off the clockmaker as around 10,5 life. That can be a fast death with with more then one enemy like in a cavarn or a storm

[lyric marsh]

12.5

[fallow surge]

3 hits instead of 4? Not that big of a difference, also they all need to land at head, that is 25% chance, so it is 1.5% and 0.4% chance respectively

"But sometimes" situation

[tranquil onyx]

Like yeah, early in the game you will be dropped into second chance by some attacks unexpectedly

[fallow surge]

With 8 seconds grace period

[tranquil onyx]

But your most often hit body region will also be more resilient

[lyric marsh]

that invincibility period made all the difference for balancing risktaking

[fallow surge]

for ppl with high risk aversion*

Also did somebody noticed red particles when you receive a hit during invincibility period? Or I made them to subtle?

[lyric marsh]

i only noticed the particles on activation

[tranquil onyx]

I haven’t tested 1.21.4 stuff yet; unless that has also been present in 1.21.1?

[lyric marsh]

i'm thinking, maybe it should be a slight vignette instead?

[tranquil onyx]

-# I haven’t Vintage storied much in the last ~2 months in general

[lyric marsh]

i think a white vignette when you take a hit while invincible would communicate better

[fallow surge]

Nah, not worth the effort

[plain crypt]

Saw nothing the last fights

[lyric marsh]

or it could be a sound effect?

like the temporal storm bell sound on activation or something similar

[fallow surge]

it is fine as is for now

[lyric marsh]

oookay i believe you now

iron brig+chain+gamb

[tribal quail]

katana?

[lyric marsh]

there's a co compatible mod for them

it's op but it's there

[neat knoll]

those new traits for bg and malefactor apply automatically right? don't have to have everyone do .charsel?

[hollow tulip]

me writing my last note before looking at the flowers outside

#1422640928207798292 btw

[final garden]

That's a rather ominous image

[hollow tulip]

yes

i think the scroll n pen should be swapped doe

yes

[quiet cradle]

is there a spreadsheet or something with melee weapon ranges somewhere?

[fallow surge]

No, you can make one if you want, but this will require a lot of testing

[quiet cradle]

im too lazy to actually make one, which is why i asked if it already existed xd

[true nexus]

I can get the data and ya can make the chart if ya want

I wanna test the weapons anyways

In terms of reach

[supple radish]

I got a question.

How does parrying with two handed weapons work?

Well, parrying in general.

[fallow surge]

Parrying works like perfect block in other games

You can see its stats in item description

[supple radish]

Should I time it right?

Also what is the deal with that parrying stance, by holding rmb with two handed weapons?

It is possible to break the stance, or I need to hit the back in order to break it?

[true nexus]

I wanna meyer this shyte /j

[lyric marsh]

jfk?

[lyric marsh]

the stance is the block

[ripe relic]

Btw have any of the recent updates needed a .json refresh? I'm still using my old json

[sinful panther]

I'd like to recommend that class stats be adjusted to lower values rather than extremes from the getgo, there are noticeable differences in 10%s, there are differences in 15%s, there are massive differences in 25 or 30%s, and the plentiful 50+% changes for each class in the mod are just too much

[lyric marsh]

would be too insignificant

and would have ugly math

[lyric marsh]

are we getting a sheath for medium length guns? (bossi and arquebus)

or a sling rather

[solid mist]

does the musket with bayonet on benefit from Spearman from Xskills?

[earnest forge]

Very cool separation for the quiver!

[fallow surge]

Had to suffer a bit to make it work: #mod-development message

[simple comet]

Seems worthwhile, as far as player QoL. I've answered the same questions about what slot icons mean a bunch of times, and that's just on a server.

Figured you'd want to know that the 1.12.8 is giving a false positive for a trojan/script. Oh, Windows...

[simple comet]

I knew that was there, too. 😅

If you aren't worried about that version doing it, I won't either. First time I've run into it with your mods, showcasing the wonderful consistency of Windows.

[fallow surge]

First time it was reported for Armory (that contains only json and png files)

[simple comet]

🤣

That's certainly something.

And MS's answer summarizes to: 🤷

That's... that's great.

[fallow surge]

technically if there is a vulnerability in code that processes png or json, it can be a virus

[simple comet]

Which is incredibly creative, but that would indicate an area to fix in the means of processing such files more than telling users "oh this could be very dangerous!"

This kind of thing will breed the same glazed expressions that cookie warnings online have created, and overall make for a less safe user environment. Shame that large international companies don't particularly care about that aspect of things though. What can you do!

Already getting feedback from users on the change to quivers/sheaths: "he did good work :D", "i'm glad he changed it", "that's my favorite", etc. It's an impressive change, for certain!

[fallow surge]

I mean may be win defender AI recognized some pattern in png files that relates to exploitation of some vulnurability in some code somwhere, so it marked it as virus, dunno.

[fallow surge]

It is not a "change" per se, it is a feature that was planned for some time.

[simple comet]

Well, it's absolutely excellent and so far, very well received!

[true nexus]

It is a whole other level of spite for someone to put a virus in a png, aint it?

[fallow surge]

Tbh, with full access to engine code and ability to run any code on user machine, I dont see why someone will even bother with png

[true nexus]

I know nothin of programming, but if someone does, they be a spiteful bastard

[fallow surge]

Like mods are a one big RCE vulnerability.

[true nexus]

What is that?

[fallow surge]

remote code execution

[true nexus]

I like yer funny words magic man

[fallow surge]

Means a mod can run arbitrary code on user's machine

[true nexus]

I see

Btw, simple question: how's the simithin update gonna affect CO?

[lyric marsh]

i thought a security vulnerability had to be found in dotnet first no?

[fallow surge]

No, you can run any code already, game gives you full access. Also you can load any native library, means you not even confined to .net

ImGui loads native binaries for example

[lyric marsh]

well time to think thrice about random mods

[fallow surge]

You cant even trust not random mod, cause moddb account can be hacked in theory, and virus uploaded to popular mod.

So, nothing is safe, and it always a gamble.

You can scan each mod with virus total every time you download a release, this will reduce the risk, probably.

[lyric marsh]

i'm on linux

[fallow surge]

so what?

Use different scanner

[lyric marsh]

which i doubt is much safer since dotnet is crossplatform

[fallow surge]

linux does not mean safe

[lyric marsh]

yeah i figured, especially with the inevitable upcoming windows 10 exodus

sandboxing will become essential

[true nexus]

What with windows 10?

[lyric marsh]

ending support

you have less than two weeks

[true nexus]

Oh, that, but it will not cease existing?

Cuz i could care less for that gobbledygook

[fallow surge]

Ok, I think this is too offtopic now, sorry.

[true nexus]

No worries, sorry

Oi, also, will ya add flamberges?

[fallow surge]

Not planned

[true nexus]

I see, might be hard to model one i reckon

As hard as forgin one

[fallow surge]

Just not planned, current set of weapons seems enough

[true nexus]

Understandable

What's yer favorite?

[floral coral]

@fallow surge do you take commissions?

[hollow tulip]

https://youtu.be/E_s_7EV1npc

damm they didnt use combat overhaul fully :(

bloated modded server award

[final garden]

I've gotten a couple people saying my Visored Helmets mod was flagged as malicious (root-kit according to one). :/

[lyric marsh]

also since mods have no security measures, that makes the autodownloader quite dangerous..

[final garden]

I always assumed moddb had some sort of security auto-scanner

[brave canyon]

Yeah, that quivers slot separation is absolutely glorious. It was absolutely well worth the effort getting it figured out!

[candid chasm]

Modding is always dangerous no matter how you go about it

[true nexus]

Why most folks have vivid in their name

[final garden]

Just a silly joke

[brave canyon]

Yeah pretty much :P

[placid warren]

hey how do i go about adding the combat overhaul traits to a class that doesn't normally have them?

[brave canyon]

You'll have to patch them in to the classes in question

There should be some examples in CO itself cause that's what it does for the vanilla classes

[fallow surge]

It is also controlled from json, so you can add your own categories for different slots

[brave canyon]

Ooh, that's really awesome

[tight harness]

@fallow surge Apologies, I did see the "dont ask" thing but also didnt want to start making requests in public if the answer was going to be 'no'. But I'll ask straight up here, I like your mod, and I am planning on integrating it with my classes mod. During the course of this I have made several patch changes that apply to your mod, such as making the proficiencies higher or lower and creating new traits for these. I am not certain how this effects most licenses since im not taking your work but patching it in my mod, but I do note you have an MIT license. I still wanted to get approval from you before continuing further.

[fallow surge]

You dont need to patch anything in CO if you add your own classes, just add your own traits that use same stats and use them in your classes. And you dont need to ask for that.

If you are trying to edit vanilla classes, you cant, cause you cant patch patches.

[tight harness]

Sorry, i mean I have created or used your trait parameters in my classes mod in a way that is not currently within your mod's settings. I utilise your code in my own way through my patches, but it means that your mod acts differntly when my mod is also installed. I know you have a MIT license but still wanted to confirm with you out of respect.

[fallow surge]

No, using stats from another mod does not require license stuff

[tight harness]

Thank you, I assumed this was the case but had a run-in with another mod creator earlier this year and want to cover all my bases. I appreciate your time.

[placid warren]

inside the file of combat overhaul or something else?

[native lynx]

Hi! very sorry Maltiez, could I ask to DM you to ask for some guidance to make a proper CO patch since I'm having some issues with a particular instance?

[fallow surge]

You can ask here

[native lynx]

ye, so...
I'm trying to write a patch to alter some CO values for some armour. I've so far managed to do a few successfully, since they were kinda simple (I changed the values and layers of the Kastenbust and the Lamellar armours from NotOnlySpearExpansion).

However, the issue I'm having now is I wanted to change the values of the wizard robes from Rustbound magic, to instead of being outer layer, being inner layer.

And, well, maybe it's because of how much more complex they are, maybe I just have no idea what I'm doing (very likely). I can change the value of the FIRST tier of the robes, but any of the 2 upper tiers end up becoming unable to be worn since they get "layer none" before any other layer change.

I tried asking vies but he's also not very familiar with CO patching, so I couldn't really figure out a proper way... is there any chance I could ask you for help?

I can show here what I tried the first time, which works for tier 1 but not for tier 2 and 3

if it's a mess: I am incredibly bad at coding so I mostly look at other patches done by other people and try and copy what works

[fallow surge]

I think Rustbound magic has its own patches that can be interfering with yours
Also it is not CO patching, it is just regular json patches.

You can also get help in https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/351624415039193098 - there is not match CO specific

[native lynx]

ye, it does, which is what I'm trying to replace

[fallow surge]

I dont know how

You cant patch patches

[native lynx]

ah..

[true nexus]

Patchception

[final garden]

Couldn't you in theory patch after another patch? Like, Patch 1 addmerges for CO co.patibility, patch 2 replaces with new custom values

[fallow surge]

You can technically patch a patch but the behavior is undefined.

Order is not guaranteed, at least as it is stated on wiki

[native lynx]

that's what I did, and it worked well enough for the iron lamellar armour from SpearExp, but the robes from rustboundmagic use a very strange method that I don't understand. When I patch one tier of them, it messes up all the other tiers

This? This works as a replace patch

[native lynx]

while this one doesn't (beyond just tier 1)

[fallow surge]

Spent 10 hours today making this: https://mods.vintagestory.at/skeletons

Hope it was worth it

[native lynx]

it totally was lmao, that's amazing

[final garden]

That's awesome

[final garden]

Ah, I see

[brave canyon]

Haha, now you can properly be a trumpet doot skeleton

[final garden]

But we have no trumpets!

[brave canyon]

The voice choice!

[final garden]

Oh, true! But it's not quite the same

I wonder... is there a way to differentiate between player 'races' in code? For example, I made the cannibalism mod, but currently it would treat all players as Seraphim. However, there are kobolds and boners skeletons now

[fallow surge]

tags

there is an api for changing player tags with different models

I haven't added tags replacement to this mod yet, though

[final garden]

Hmm. That makes sense. That way I could use the tags to change the entity from my dead seraphim to something else

I've noticed some people have mentioned that if you have the visored helmets mod, there is basically no reason to wear anything else. Do you think I should maybe rework some aspect of it to rebalance it a little? I.E. Increase the crafting cost or something or require crafting the visor separate from the helmet and then have to attach the two together? Maybe it doesn't even need such fine-tuning

[true nexus]

Got a bone to pick with ya

Always peroné to violence

[lyric marsh]

skeletons IN exoskeletons

[lyric marsh]

conceptually overpowered

so just keep it that way

it's like guns, they're overpowered as a baseline

[final garden]

Fair enough, but the real trade-off with those is that visors in real life are hard to make as are guns, and both usually require a little more in the way of resources

All the same, I am trying to figure out how to change the steel helmet recipes now that it exists as two parts

I can either shrink the helmet shape for steel to require one less ingot, and then make a recipe for neck protection that uses only one ingot, or I can increase the cost only for steel helmets (which I don't like for consistency sake)

I also really don't like how much I have to remove from the helmet shape just to make it one ingot less

[final garden]

Seem like some odd choices for Skeleton perks. What are skeletons supposed to do when they are weak and seemingly bad at most things?

[earnest forge]

Put some meat on their bones?

[lyric marsh]

i think the skeleton should just have no hunger

with all the downsides

[final garden]

Eh, that kind of just makes them lame

There goes most of the game

[lyric marsh]

yeah but currently in the game hunger is already almost a non issue

[final garden]

They almost seem like a weird alternative blackguard. Intended to be heavily armoured head, neck and torso, but less damage on anything else

[lyric marsh]

i don't think it's supposed to be taken seriously

[final garden]

Probably not, true

[lyric marsh]

but this is the only race mod that actually catches my eye

[final garden]

My problem is I want the race mods to be distinctly different from basic humans, but that usually breaks everything

Like Kobolds are super cool, but I'm worried they can't wear most stuff without it looking jank

[lyric marsh]

here's a thought, if skeleton has -100% hunger rate then wearing armor still makes it require food

[earnest forge]

Just some feedback about the different types of bronze, but I think the durability of tin bronze and bismuth bronze should be swapped. Tin bronze seems to be harder while bismuth is tougher, at least according to the derived stats of tools, but in armor bismuth is just less durable with no benefit.

[olive hazel]

having this happen when i load up my game

[fallow surge]

Old version of gloomeclasses?

[fallow surge]

this will require code

and it is a content mod...

[olive hazel]

i have the latest version

[fallow surge]

report to authors then

[olive hazel]

yep

[fallow surge]

taken from vanilla

[hollow tulip]

btw will there ever be a fix of hitting stuff behind closed doors? @fallow surge

[fallow surge]

If this stuff is poking through the door - no

[hollow tulip]

I've seen people kill drifters behind closed doors but eh

also damm

physics based combat be something

Well hit connection

[fallow surge]

the solution is to make entities not clip into stuff

[hollow tulip]

vanilla problems

[rancid mauve]

Hey I've just started a server with a friend and it seems spears just aren't working at all, same for javelins I can't swing or anything anyone know if there's a bug with multiplayer or something?

[final garden]

Quick question about your boner boys. What happens if you set the starting HP to 5 and play as a skeleton?

[near valve]

having an issue with updating CO in a server. all our weapons don't bounce of walls anymore, they phase through everything. clearing the cache had no effect

[fallow surge]

Config

[fallow surge]

installation issues

[near valve]

thank you

[lyric marsh]

vanilla doesn't support 0% hunger rate?

[lyric marsh]

do bows not have individual sway values?

can't find it in the jsons

[elder bear]

Hallo @fallow surge, czech translation update for some of your mods:

Armory 1.4.0:

Crossbows 1.6.6 (czech translation)

Exoskeletons 0.4.3 (czech translation)

Firearms 1.3.5 (czech translation)

Combat overhaul 0.10.8 (czech translation)

Fueled wearable lights 1.0.5 (czech translation)

Quivers and sheaths 0.5.2 (czech translation)

Tabards 0.2.1 (czech translation)

[lyric marsh]

tried skeletons, the head seems to disappear when you're wearing armor

[final garden]

I've noticed this odd error when booting up a world with skeletons. Looks like a patch failing to apply

[final garden]

Probably because heads seem to be selectable and are really just head accessories

So it probably gets hidden?

[brave canyon]

Oooh, does that mean you can go haunted armor mode?

Become the Oathbreaker Paladin in BG3 :P

[lyric marsh]

not haunted armor, empty head

the headless helmetman

it's visually confusing too

i thought the coif was a full cube of chain

[fallow surge]

Post screenshots

[brave canyon]

It's likely what Bronze mentioned, that makes a ton of sense honestly.

[fallow surge]

Some armors have textures that are not transparent, so head is just inside. But it should not be actually hidden.

[lyric marsh]

almost any head armor causes this

[fallow surge]

Thats armor texture problem

Will solve later for CO

Vanilla will have to suffer though

[vale sleet]

small bug for armory the Sabres does not have quality from xskills
idk if this is the same on the new versions of armory since we are on 1.2.3
when we try updating to 1.3.0 a bit back
it broke everyone's armory items and armory stop showing up in hand book
so we had to back date the mod

[fallow surge]

Report to XSkills

[vale sleet]

ah alright will do thx

[naive sedge]

Are there other mods that uses the other hidden slots besides belts/quivers and tabards?

[final garden]

@fallow surge Figured I should mention this about the skeletons, but if you choose to start with 5 HP, then skeletons get -3 HP

I seem to be able to take two hits, then will die and respawn

[oblique bramble]

maybe the health traits should be based on percentages than flat values to prevent this sort of thing? would also compensate for the "doubled traits" thing that seems to happen sometimes
instead of being -8HP, have it be like -50% or something and the game can calculate it from there

unsure if the base game supports that though

[final garden]

That is, with various mods such as CO, which is probably why you take two hits instead of one, because that one hit would one-shot you, it gets stopped

[final garden]

Any amount of damage from something else seems to insta-kill you (unsurprisingly)

[hollow tulip]

this will be CO in 5 years btw

[final garden]

Surprisingly, while skeletons are super weak with a lower starting HP, they are actually still functional, even with HP of 0 or negative, they just die immediately upon any damage (or in two combat hits). Best they can manage with full nutrition is 9.5 HP

[rigid mortar]

incredible

[naive sedge]

What mod enabled those two CO slots?

[final garden]

Not sure, to be honest

[true nexus]

They should be able to spawn where they die

Would be nice to have such a positive

[fallow surge]

I guess you can choose not to, problem solved

[grave gulch]

this mod includes an armor system overhual as part of it yeah? I think that's where I'm getting it from

[true nexus]

aye

[grave gulch]

Thank you that's great news, so I've got no idea how it works is there some documentation on what counts as skin inner and outer? Or what the tags are

[true nexus]

the armor pieces have tags

each type of armor is different

[grave gulch]

Ah you can search by tag? I wasn't aware

[true nexus]

aye ya can

in the handbook, yes

[grave gulch]

Yeah i was trying to work out the benefits vs downsides of each

[true nexus]

i like to layer gambeson/chain/brigandine

[earnest forge]

Tailored gambeson ftw

[true nexus]

cannot make em sadly

[earnest forge]

Yes you can. Requires steel but possible for anyone. Check your handbook.

[true nexus]

i do

i see nothin but needing the tailor trait

[earnest forge]

Important bit

[true nexus]

I see

[earnest forge]

You can make the normal cloth armor with iron, but if you're a tailor you can make it with bronze.

[wispy rapids]

halu

can i ask 🤔 i was reading the Combat overhaul page and it said that Vanilla ranged damage, accuracy, distance and speed stats do not affect weapons anymore.

does that mean like everything bow related in vanilla?

im using Sonito's dynamic traits

[fallow surge]

Sonitos has support for CO

[wispy rapids]

and im making a trait that is associated with bows and im wondering if i should remove bowDrawingStrength:

[fallow surge]

bowDrawingStrength does nothing in CO, you can leave it if you want

[wispy rapids]

Ah thanks!

[wispy rapids]

wait so to be clear "rangedWeaponsDamage": "bowDrawingStrength": "rangedWeaponsAcc": "rangedWeaponsSpeed": are all the stats that wont work in CO?

[fallow surge]

'rangedWeaponsAcc' affects aim sway still

but it is more of a legacy support feature

use steadyAim instead

[wispy rapids]

Thanks so much!

[fallow surge]

You mean you adding more traits to Sonito's dynamic traits?

[wispy rapids]

im trying to make different traits and trait groups. like instead of Speed, Dex, Int, and such, im doing it like Body type, Job, Hobbies.

[winter lily]

hi guys, so there is a crit mecanic or smth? all of sudden mobs do little damage then bang, a ton of damage

same mob

not sure why

wearing full bear armor

[lyric marsh]

you got spanked in the head

it's an rng system like vanilla, except different parts take different damage

by default torso is 1x, limbs are 0.5x, face is 1.5x, head and neck are 2x

bear armor doesn't protect much, i only recommend the top two pieces for surface mob protection

legs are not worth it unless you're bg

layering it with even copper chain armor is where the protection becomes decent

(chain is much much cheaper in co)

enemies also take different damage to different parts

[floral epoch]

Got that issue above, even while wearing a scale helmet still got hit by like 10+ damage from a random tier 1 drifter

[lyric marsh]

no blunt protection

therefore, full damage

wear something with blunt protection for drifters

jerkin is specifically for that

a basically free to wear skin layer that adds 4 blunt

[floral epoch]

Still, should the damage be so high even for tier 1 enemies?

[lyric marsh]

i think it works really well, drifters have been worthless for a long time

[floral epoch]

I kinda get it, but I don't know if I'm just unlucky or smth, but they seem to constantly bonk me in the head

[lyric marsh]

this rebalance actually made me respect them, after being headshot twice back to back on me bald head and almost dying to surface drifters

protect that head

bear armor head or jerkin does the trick

open helmet if you want something extremely light

riveted helmet if you want something light and very cheap

light helmet is like riveted helmet but more expensive and better

[floral epoch]

Do they (drifters) have an extra chance to headshot tho? Most enemies don't seem to headshot that much

[lyric marsh]

no, all mobs have the same chances to hit different parts, only matters where you get hit from

below, front or above

[floral epoch]

Can it be the drifter animation?

[lyric marsh]

getting hit from the front is a 30% headshot iirc

[floral epoch]

30%? jesus

[lyric marsh]

need to look at the math again

[floral epoch]

Tbh probably accurate

I've been more scared from tier 1 drifters than all of other tier 4 mobs

[lyric marsh]

@fallow surge think you can add the part hit rng as a handbook entry?

[floral epoch]

Thanks for the help, comrade

I'll try to use more armor

[lyric marsh]

skin armor hardcounters drifters, at least common ones

no need for heavy armor

jerkin/gambeson has almost zero penalties now

[floral epoch]

Makes sense

Ty!

Also, would ya recommend shields? I usually don't use them that much

[lyric marsh]

shields are op on co currently

[floral epoch]

Nice

I'll try them, ty again!

[hollow pasture]

Light shields are super effective and have much less "sustainability" issues (i.e. lower hunger penalties while carried and no move speed penalty) and they have a parry in case you want to push your luck fighting things you shouldn't be.

Heavy shields are for when you don't want to take any chances and just need that damage blocked at all cost or your focus is not able to be used on parrying because of sheer intensity

[lyric marsh]

the two problems i see with shields currently are:

• they are basically unbreakable, even the stone age hide shield could last you a lifetime
• large shields perfectly deny all incoming damage as long as the tier of the attack is equal or lower than the block tier, allowing you to turtle through any possible situation with a fast enough weapon to block in time

[hollow pasture]

Light shields do the same thing afaik

[lyric marsh]

yes but they have lower tiers and don't protect every part

so a block is not guaranteed safety

my best idea on how to balance large shields is to give them a different system

like a percentage damage reduction

[earnest forge]

Vanilla does it simply by blocking only 80% of melee hits if I remember correctly

[lyric marsh]

90%

but vanilla's shield implementation is stupid and underbaked

[earnest forge]

It's simple

[lyric marsh]

if large shields had an rng dependent block i definitely would never use them

their identity is consistent defense

so in theory a percentage based damage reduction would work

[earnest forge]

Most games just use a fatigue system to counteract excessive blocking, so you might be able to tie into the vigor mod for balancing tanks

[tranquil onyx]

Excessive blocking is already punished by not providing full protection + you can’t attack during it

The reward for parrying is that you get windows of time to perform more attacks between consecutive parries/blocks, if necessary (bellhead shivers being probably one of the better examples where good parrying is handy in bringing them down quickly)

I wouldn’t mind a Vigor compatibility, but if anything, I wouldn’t punish players for developing good parrying skills

[rigid mortar]

some weapons do have full body protection when parrying

oh right, attack tiers

womp womp

💀

[tranquil onyx]

Most do in fact, which is a good thing

Most, if not all, I can’t recall

[rigid mortar]

I know some weapons have a big list of protected body parts that seem like everything

but probably don't protect one or two body parts

I think Poleaxe doesn't protect hands (?)

some limited fatigue can definitely help balance things

you can literally stall certain singular enemies indefinitely by spam punching them so the knockback keeps them just out of melee range

Also Falxes are pretty ass in Combat Overhaul; no parry and has less range than punching 💀

[tranquil onyx]

They still are plenty helpful against anything that has 7 slashing protection, which notably is, I think, all tier 4 Shivers and drifters

It’s not a handy weapon by any means though - I wouldn’t just stroll casually in a cave with it; it needs a shield to be suitable for „dueling”

[rigid mortar]

and if you're caving then your offhand is definitely gonna be for a lantern or torch

[earnest forge]

I spam torches because they're cheap and I need my shield

[rigid mortar]

too lazy to smelt or light a stack of torches every time I want to go into a cave

lmao

[earnest forge]

Better firepit makes it really quick

[tranquil onyx]

Maltiez has a mod for fuelled head-mounted lights - that’s handy

[earnest forge]

A calcium carbide water lamp would slap

[rigid mortar]

clearly one should set themselves on fire for portable light

[earnest forge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Z6d45FxdxUg?si=hcLA97qj8wOUS3BG

Fire and explosions

Looks like producing calcium carbide requires lime, coke, and 1100c temperatures. VS has all of these already

[rigid mortar]

seems carbide lamps are an 1890s invention

[lyric marsh]

who's saying anything about punishing parrying?

i'm talking exclusively about large shields

also, balancing a mod using another mod isn't a great idea imo

[tranquil onyx]

I must have misunderstood, but even then I think what I said was relevant to the discussion about Vigor v CO in general.

Re: large shield - what exactly is the issue with it?

[lyric marsh]

complete full body protection assuming the incoming damage is the same tier or lower

like i said above, a fast enough weapon to block in time allows you to turtle any situation

[tranquil onyx]

So does it always protect full body even if you don’t parry an attack?

[lyric marsh]

yes

large shields have no parry

just a full body block at all times

at the cost of 10 movement speed offhanded, and an extra 50 when blocking

[tranquil onyx]

I don’t think it’s a big issue

Turtling is already not the most optimal way to resolve combat

[lyric marsh]

it's a noob friendly option sure but i would prefer more depth

small shield block is balanced because it exposes a few parts (head and legs i believe)

[fallow surge]

The mod has carbide lamps already

[lyric marsh]

i use candle lamps

easiest to massproduce

[hollow tulip]

@fallow surge idea for maybe future texture updates for meteoric iron weapons

maybe give them some yellow trim instead of dots? rn its just white metal

ig giving them some golden trim could look good and maybe be dif from silver metal

🐛 👍

what u think?

[simple comet]

I don't know where else to ask this, but whatever happened to the amazingly useful Item Magnet necklace?

Last saw it for.... 1.19.3.

[fallow surge]

I can try reviving

it used FSM lib

[simple comet]

Well, if you bring it back, I know everyone on my server would do handstands and backflips with joy. 🎉

I didn't even find it on the moddb with a search, I had a local copy in my old 1.19.8 server. 😅

[fallow surge]

There is item magnet in https://mods.vintagestory.at/flexibletools and Buggi was very upset of me making mod with same idea. Said that I stole his code that he worked on so long and hard (it actually took me 5-10 minutes to re-implement it, and do it in a cleaner way, was quite obvious what to do from looking into vanilla code).

[simple comet]

Ah. Yeah, I've been asked to add that to the server, but I 100% refuse to have a vein miner, diamond tools, etc. in the game.

[fallow surge]

Buggi said that players can just not craft them if they dont want to and its totally fine to have item magnet packed into this mod, no need to have a separate mod. Buggi was very upset of me trying to "please everybody".

[simple comet]

🤷

Well, if you do decide to revive it, I'd be delighted. If not, no huge deal.

I don't want to take that veinminer mod and remove/disable the features I won't have on my server, but I may end up doing that at some point... even though it sounds like the mod author would likely be upset about it. 😅

[fallow surge]

Already doing it

I was just grumpy about Buggi creating unnecessary drama.

[simple comet]

It sounded very frustrating, yes. I don't think I'll ever quite understand the viewpoint of being outraged by similarity between mods, especially when it's not just a case of copy/paste of the code.

[fallow surge]

Its just Buggi, I hanen't seen other modders being upset about simillar things.

[simple comet]

"Be careful wearing armor straight out of forge" 😂

That is an excellent change.

[fallow surge]

Hm... Armor stays on you when you die? Yeah, that will be fun, cant wait for a flood of complains.

[hollow tulip]

@fallow surge about the trim

[fallow surge]

nope

[hollow tulip]

:( but...

oki

[quartz basin]

[simple comet]

Please, please don't change a thing. People can learn to not put on 1000° armor, or they can think about their choices over the minutes it will take to cool off as they continually respawn.

[quartz basin]

Quench it ya sillies

[simple comet]

Yup. Takes two seconds.

[fallow surge]

There is vanilla bug that if you take out your armor right before you die, and then respawn your armor will dissappear from mouse slot.

[simple comet]

"Do I keep dying and respawning, or do I forfeit this armor...?"

[lyric marsh]

become one with steel

[simple comet]

I just know I'm going to get reports of this "bug" on my server.

[lyric marsh]

is it possible to just make it unwearable until it's cool?

[rigid mortar]

💀

[lyric marsh]

while this is absolutely hilarious i don't think it's practical

[simple comet]

Neither is wearing glowing hot metal, so. 🤷

[fallow surge]

I will make it drop armor from inventory if it deals more than 6 damage

Just to give a chance

[fallow surge]

It does not need to be practical, being hilarious is fine

[quartz basin]

I cast Heat Metal

[fallow surge]

@slim latch if you add a spell that heats up metal armor on player, it will deal damage to the player in CO now... Should be an interesting spell to have for pvp.
Or may be have it as a side effect of using other spells.

[lyric marsh]

damn dnd players are a hivemind, my friend just made the same joke

[naive sedge]

This implies heating up tools / weapons

[final garden]

I love the idea of a heat metal spell that just makes target armour like 600C

[brave canyon]

Oh my god, that’s kinda a brilliant idea, hahah

Oh damn, Heat Weapon as well to just heat whatever’s in your main hand (and/or offhand?) so that you take a hit and drop it automatically too

I’d laugh if someone legit tries to counter it with Tongs in the Offhand

[final garden]

Sounds super OP be fun. Countered by using a club or other wooden-handle weapon

[brave canyon]

That would be the funniest thing to see hahah

You see a guy going up against the known Heat Weapon user, and he whips out the offhand tongs :P

[hollow pasture]

All parries have full body protection

Afaik

[lyric marsh]

except vanilla shields

what's the deal with vanilla shields in co anyway?

[past cosmos]

Newbie here, first time playing with this mod along with armory part and guns. What's the best weapon to punish drifters with and the best armor solution? Just to set up future crafting goals
P. S. Why there isn't steel club, balance reasons? We are using iron one currently

[quartz basin]

Steel war hammer my beloved

Blunt is best vs monsters, pierce best vs animals, slash is a middle ground

[earnest forge]

Monsters fear the bonk.

[hollow pasture]

There is a steel club, called a polehammer. It's meant to be substantially more durable to make your steel go further (plus it looks better)

[past cosmos]

Thank you!

What armor do you usually use and why?

[earnest forge]

Tailored gambeson because...

https://tenor.com/view/ned-flanders-homer-simpson-feels-like-im-wearing-gif-14847624

[rigid mortar]

Yea tailored gambeson is the best skin layer-only armor

linen if you aren't clothier

[earnest forge]

Hot tip, if you have steel you can make tailored gambeson as a non tailor

#1260976245374582886 message

[rigid mortar]

Isn't the recipe for tailored gambeson class-locked?

oh wow

[tranquil onyx]

In CO?

Full plate and chain mail, and t. gambeson if melee playstyle; for hybrid gambeson and chain mail, and optionally some outer layer for extra protection. I also like scale mails from Forgotten armoury series of mods for how small ranged/manipulation speed maluses they have

Melee playstyle with no plate on hands/arms is also ideal, since they limit manipulation speed greatly

[lyric marsh]

scale without sleeves is great for ranged

and for light combat

but if you go melee there's not much reason not to do the logical three layers

mix and match to find your ideal setup

[naive sedge]

noticed broken copper javelin heads gives 20 bits in armroy version 1.2.1

[fallow surge]

Not a CO feature

[naive sedge]

ah myb

[floral coral]

That is in the wearable lamps and lanterns mod

[finite ember]

hi, wanted to ask for some help regarding of item patching for the mod compatibility, in this case being a sword, I've tried copying a file from another mod (Ancient Armory) to make it work as I'm not very familiar with this mod code (and patching in general), but it doesn't work properly, I'm missing something?

[naive sedge]

What does grip changing do for charging spears?

[swift hollow]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/19838
@fallow surge
we talked a long time ago about this but now there is a port!!
its not Blender but its close?

[lyric marsh]

it adjusts range so you can hit up close

no idea what you mean by charging spears

[naive sedge]

When u charge them by holding down rclick

[lyric marsh]

it doesn't affect throwing

[naive sedge]

Oohhh ty

[sinful panther]

i'm trynna modify the traits, if i change the values is there an actual change ingame or are these just descriptions?

[hollow tulip]

why tf does tailored gambison need steel or meteoric iron nails @fallow surge

ig it's balance cuz it's better than jerkin armor?

[final garden]

Yes. It's by far the best skin armour. So for balancing it requires steel, unless you're a tailor and can make it sooner

[near valve]

in pvp would a weapon having the armor piercing effect mean that their damage goes through shields? or is this effect only applied on clean hits to another player?

[hard gale]

Guys, question for my Forgotten Armory update.. im adding bear armor variants... for Vannila stats, im keeping them just slightly slower (like 2% per part) with the benefit of getting you some warmth.

Im considering different approach for Combat Overhaul stats adding +2 +2 +2 for resistance and heavy penalisation on walking speed and manipulation, lets say 15% on both per set and of course benefit is temperature bonus...

I would like to see yall opinion on this
Does it feel
1️⃣ balanced
2️⃣ Useful
3️⃣ Useless
4️⃣ Keep it mainly just cosmetic as vanilla

[fallow surge]

Scroll up this thread

Dont need to ping me for such questions

[fallow surge]

AP is just attack tier added when dealing with player armor, thats all

[oak moat]

not a fan at all of the armorer Sewing and tailor kits

maybe if there was an actual early game skin layer armor that'd be appreciated but nothing is pre-anvil

[gentle dock]

tailormains keep losing

[lyric marsh]

bear armor is an early alternative

lamellar for noobs

given how skin armor is now pretty much free to wear, this works

first you get cumbersome armors, then at copper you can make light armors

but i do agree tailor got nerfed by this

now the class' most significant trait is getting base gambeson at bronze

[hollow tulip]

yes lol

Well tbh we got it now on my server

[near valve]

you can get a copper anvil in like an hour or 2. how do you not have an anvil before having enough flax to make any kind of gambeson lol

[oak moat]

OK fair enough but floral zones

Mods

I also have a habit of exploring for upwards of 6 hours before settling

I think something like reed armor or crude pelt armor could be nice to have really early on

Especially with how aggressive boars have become with 1.20.5

[near valve]

ah okay that makes a lot more sense

[oak moat]

Even bamboo armor was a think but I can't imagine that being skin layer

Rattan armor!

[lyric marsh]

but that's what lamellar is

wood lamellar

a pelt, a resin and firewood

that's easy day 2 stuff

[finite ember]

wooden lamellar, my beloved

but I agree that it would be interesting to have a pelt/skin option, like a light armor counterpart

obviously less protective but more light to wear around, and maybe more durable.

and tbh, you could have some real bad luck and not find any resin around, making primitive armor your only available option (which sucks)

[naive sedge]

wood bark armor?

[finite ember]

and where would you get bark specifically

[naive sedge]

could be a new co item like wooden handles

[lyric marsh]

bloating with an item that only has one use?

why does stone age NEED a skin armor

stone age is limiting by design

[fallow surge]

Use lamellar until you get leather for jerkin

[earnest forge]

Just don't get hit, no need for srmor. 1hp and a dream!

[lyric marsh]

maybe if enemies had good attack hitboxes that would be more viable

co makes it a lot better with the tighter player hitboxes but getting hit by air is still a problem

[fallow surge]

I'm not a gamedev team with animators, coders, testers, e.t.c. There is no way I'm doing full entities rework.

[lyric marsh]

yeah i figured that

[fallow surge]

The amount of works it requires is enormous.

[lyric marsh]

here's hoping vanilla gets to it sooner than later

[fallow surge]

heh, doubt that

[lyric marsh]

i was gonna be a vanilla purist until i realized the devs are not even thinking of touching combat yet

now i'm on co and can't play without it

[earnest forge]

CO crossbows are so much better than vanilla ranged options for hunting

[lyric marsh]

bullseye bows are great too

(though frustrating to use as non hunters)

[fallow surge]

there are talks in the team about combat update

[lyric marsh]

no way

if they do at least something by chapter 3 that would be a great sign

[earnest forge]

Well next update is supposed to focus on mechanics, and combay is a mechanic

[lyric marsh]

mechanical

mechanical power

[fallow surge]

Tbh, I would prefer for combat update to not happen, so I dont need to find ways to turn new features off, to bypass new crutches, and fight with new vanilla code that does stuff in a wrong and crutchy way.

[lyric marsh]

in a perfect world co gets slowly integrated into vanilla

i wouldn't expect it to be without changes but i'd take anything

[final garden]

I'll make skin armour that can be made with seraph skin for my Cannibalism mod. Just for you

[finite ember]

that'll be quite cool

not practical, but fear inducing armor/clothing to intimidate others

[final garden]

I've been trying to think of uses for stuff like that anyway, so it may actually be a decent idea

[finite ember]

jerky

seraph jerky

[final garden]

You can already smoke and cure seraph

[finite ember]

oh right, forgot about the "Cannibalism" title lol

[earnest forge]

https://tenor.com/view/peeling-peeling-face-peeling-skin-peel-face-mask-gif-12085277

[lyric marsh]

oh i get it

SKIN armor

[final garden]

It'll hardly help at all, but it should look horrible

[fallow surge]

There are more powerful ways to look horrible

[final garden]

Hehe. I love that mod and run it on my server, sadly nobody has played skeleton yet 🙁

But imagine a skeleton wearing skin armour... 🤔

[lyric marsh]

did you give em a charsel

[final garden]

The command? They got to pick when they spawned in, but I'm not sure if you mean something else

[earnest forge]

You should make skeletons drop rot whenever they eat. No stomach after all.

[lyric marsh]

yeah maybe someone would play skeleton if they could charsel into one

[fallow surge]

Too much work for such simple mod, I let someone else do it

[final garden]

My brother and I chose Kobolds because we love them so much, but the others just went Seraph

[final garden]

Nah, they said they'd just stay Seraph.

[lyric marsh]

i'm bound by the swampman, i cannot play anything else by my code

[final garden]

Can you imagine? That's the most efficient composter I could think of

I particularly enjoy that kobolds can be the absurd height difference

[lyric marsh]

hire a skeleton to hold rightclick

[final garden]

So my brother is 3 blocks tall, and I'm 1 block

Does it cause weird bugs? Absolutely, but they're so worth it

In theory, I found a potential bug that would allow skeletons to be any size, too

[fallow surge]

I fixed some of these bugs, but game is just not meant to be played with height not equal to 1.7

[final garden]

Honestly? The problems aren't that major

[fallow surge]

You can json patch it in before I added such config option

[final garden]

I realize it causes issues, but it's too fun otherwise

[final garden]

Ah, I just meant when I installed it and started playing, I realized I could set my size to 50% as kobold, then switch to skeleton and remain 50%

Even though skeleton doesn't allow that

[fallow surge]

hm...

[final garden]

It's more of a feature than a bug, but my own philosophy is that players should be allowed to screw themselves over if they want

[fallow surge]

Like putting on 1200C hot armor piece?

[final garden]

Exactly

https://tenor.com/view/burning-knight-knight-burning-knight-on-fire-fire-knight-gif-15304992097372690943

Become one with your steel skin, eternally

[naive sedge]

What if dual wield?

[lyric marsh]

how would that even work

[final garden]

You have a weapon in one hand, and another weapon in the other /j

[naive sedge]

I assume just animation and attack angles

Its nice thought tho

[lyric marsh]

let the devs figure out one weapon first

[earnest forge]

You would just swing weapons alternately at a faster pace than just one

But also you would die twice as fast with no block

[fallow surge]

Btw, skeletons now have "skeleton" and "undead" tags, and dont have tag "seraph". So you can check it for your cannibalism mod. You can look into refactored ai tasks code for example of dealing with entity tags.

[final garden]

Sweeeeet. I'll need to use the tag system now, 'cause I want boners to have no meat, and it'd be cool if Kobolds actually dropped dead kobolds

[earnest forge]

With the skeletons it would be interesting to replace drifters and bowtorns with skeleton versions, get a sort of necromancy vibe going

[final garden]

Sounds like a neat solo mod idea

[fallow surge]

Ton of work still, may be later

[olive hazel]

yo maltiez the belt and sheaths are sick idk if you have thoght of this yet but back scabbards for longer swords would be sick

also what is this?

[fallow surge]

Sorry, I think I will direct translators to this project now: https://mods.vintagestory.at/bettertranslations

[tight kraken]

feel silly having to ask this, but if i accidentally closed the menu to equip armor...how do i reopen it?

C just brings up everything else but the armor menu

[rotund swan]

the Minecraft spear but better

hell, mix it with the glider

[wispy rapids]

halue, can i ask? is there a list to see all the combat overhaul proficiencies🤔 ? im looking at the modpage and it has a few but it does not look like thats all of them

im trying to customize some sonito perks

[brave canyon]

You can crack open the mod Zip and check out the json file defines for the traits

[wispy rapids]

thanks

[brave canyon]

That might be the most comprehensive option right now, heh

Usually it'll have bonuses and names that'll make it pretty clear what it's trying to do

[wispy rapids]

i think this is it 🤔

dem theres alot more than i thought XD

"canParryProjectiles"🤔 ❓

is this like

hm...

i gotta try this out XD

[lyric marsh]

blackguard can parry projectiles with weapons

[wispy rapids]

thats so cool man 0_0

[lyric marsh]

but is also now balanced out by taking torso damage to legs

[wispy rapids]

is there gonna be any indicator that the parry worked? im tryna test if it works with sonitos perks by throwing a spear into the air and trying to parry it XD

i cant seem to hit it tho.. idk if im just bad or

[rotund swan]

sound indicator

I mention it bc I tried it with a friend

the motherfucker parried a shot from a blunderbuss

[wispy rapids]

ahaahah XD

[rotund swan]

but yeah there's an indicator for a successful parry

do I recommend it? no, get a shield

is it fun? when it works

[wispy rapids]

omg it works! i gave up on the spear and tried with a stone and i finally hit it

i heard like a thHOnk

hahah this is so cool

[rotund swan]

yeah!

[wispy rapids]

can i ask what playerLegsDamageFactor and playerFeetDamageFactor attribute does?

{"code": "legDay", "type": "mixed", "attributes": {"playerLegsDamageFactor": 1.0, "playerFeetDamageFactor": 1.0, "jumpHeightMul": 0.25}},

does that encrease dmg to the legs and feet? on here it says 1.0 so im guessing it increases dmg by 100%?

but that does not make sense on a perk called LegDay

on the perk called ThickScull theres this attribute called playerHeadDamageFactor

and its -0.5

so based on the vanilla stats that means it reduces dmg to the head by 50%

[lyric marsh]

in co different parts take different damage

torso 1x, face 1.5x, head and neck 2x, limbs 0.5x

the traits multiplicatively add or reduce those multipliers

[wispy rapids]

so in the LegDay trait it increases dmg to the legs and feet by 100% 🤔 ?

[lyric marsh]

yes, which makes it 1x

[wispy rapids]

ohhh

[lyric marsh]

same as torso

[wispy rapids]

aight thanks!

[earnest forge]

Just checking my client-main log after a crash and it's not related, but seeing some CO warnings about missing colliders for "Snout" for caribou deer and "mouth up" for takingold goats.

[lyric marsh]

self explanatory

oh that's vanilla

[hollow tulip]

what are the new armor models like?

[lyric marsh]

?

what new armor models

oh new update

i would guess that's transforms?

helmets are transparent now

for skeleton combatibility

only change i can immediately notice

bear armor is still clipping city

[hollow tulip]

ah

[fallow surge]

I pretend that bear armor does not exist for now

[lyric marsh]

all vanilla player got so hyped for it when it turned out to be tier 1

which, worryingly, did not stop their hype

[fallow surge]

Anyone can fix the clipping issues and make a pull request

Just fyi

[tawdry remnant]

Hey, i was wandering if there's a way i can disable movmeent while an attack animation plays?

[ocean siren]

i belive someday touhou model comes to vs

[fallow surge]

What? How is it related to CO?

[oblique bramble]

you mean to put this in the PML thread?

[ocean siren]

What, i didnt know pml has its thread

[oblique bramble]

#1364315680077512756

[lyric marsh]

wow this really fits my character

here's pre rot swampman

also

+30% -30%

life just be like that

[naive sedge]

game 1.21.1
mod 1.2.1
are copper javelins meant to use 5 durability on thrown hit?

[tranquil onyx]

It sounds intended, yeah

Throws deal a lot of damage after all

[naive sedge]

well between spears and javelins...
javelins lasts alot longer than spears in melee
and javelins lasts shorter than spears in thrown

but javelins are easier to throw

(copper)

[lyric marsh]

yes the extra durability use is the design of javelins

they have way more range and autoswap

javelin melee sucks ass, you're supposed to throw them

[fallow surge]

Will probably rework their melee animations, dont like current ones

[lyric marsh]

make it something similar to the vanilla stab

[hollow tulip]

humans

[lyric marsh]

humans.

deepest lore

[hollow tulip]

what happed to seraphs

why they no boots @lyric marsh

[lyric marsh]

cause they're just cool like that

[hollow tulip]

no

boots are cool

or warm idk

[fallow surge]

What a nice golden helmet, should I put it on straight away?

Wtf, it was copper... There is a bug in recipe that noone reported? Or is it this id shifting shit?

[neat knoll]

are the CO traits that the classes get something that are configurable?

trying to get people to play Tailor but its hard to convince them when its like 5 downsides and no benefits

[fallow surge]

I had this helmet lying around unfinished for some time

[neat knoll]

by this i mean the weapon specialties

[final garden]

Doesn't it just look gold because it's over 1000°C?

[neat knoll]

I remember that scene from Game of Thrones

[fallow surge]

No, read the name

[fallow surge]

"gold" was a joke

[final garden]

Yeah, I see it's bismuth bronze, but isn't it still superhot?

[fallow surge]

it is, this was the joke

But I was making copper helmet using copper

[fallow surge]

traits and classes are not configurable via config lib, so nope

[neat knoll]

yeah i thought that might be the case

[fallow surge]

traits and classes are loaded on client before server sends first sync packet to client, so they cant be synced, so they cant be configured.

[neat knoll]

that makes sense, thought maybe it was something you could change before server launch. tbh i never change configs on the fly, always restart after i adjust them, wasn't aware they could just update like that

[lyric marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-khal-drogo-molten-gold-viserys-targaryen-pour-gif-1808672852019063924

your fresh helmet sir

[rotund swan]

Dagoth Ur helm

[simple comet]

I made a copper full helm earlier today, it ended up as copper. 0.10.9.

[fallow surge]

I think it is vanilla bug where it uses integer ids for recipes that can change between world reloads

[hollow tulip]

hey is there a way to tone down the grace timer when ur close to death as its 5 seconds and I wanna make it 2 @fallow surge

server config wise

[fallow surge]

I will look into adding into config

[hollow tulip]

yeah pls do also by default it should be 2 or 1 second cuz most people use those 5 seconds of grace running closer to the attacker and attacking them without fear it's just annoying

overall good mod had some fun tribal warfare today lol

[lyric marsh]

why would you run AT the thing killing you

you only would if it's a hit from death

makes no sense

the point of the invincibility is giving you a chance to potentially escape

also making it 2 seconds would completely remove the point

it would only be applicable in 1% of situations

[cunning drift]

Xskills heavy armor skill not working, any idea why?

[fallow surge]

Report to Xandu

[glossy oracle]

Reworked armor models don't have the time rn to check it in game but like a complete visual rework?

[lyric marsh]

no

compatibility tweak

[hollow tulip]

sometimes if both people are low hp the guy with grace will try to hit him and then run away so both graces go on cooldown

[lyric marsh]

oh so pvp

[hollow tulip]

trust me we tried it

most people do range

and yes its pvp

[lyric marsh]

co isn't balanced around pvp

[fallow surge]

Just turn off second chance