Combat Overhaul

[brave canyon]

It is your mod! I do immensely appreciate the work to get it fitting with CO already!

Cause yessss. I was going to see about at least making some rough patches for my own use, until you popped in to say you were working on it :P

[hard gale]

Anything, for my fellow Vintarians hehe

[brave canyon]

Hahaha

[hollow pasture]

The base game has this issue too with steel armor

As in you wish you had a sort of maille collar armor instead of the whole aventail?

[ivory charm]

They are very much aware, at least I'm pretty sure that's the case

[final garden]

I just don't like the huge contrast between my meteoric iron chainmail overtop of my blackguard armour

[final garden]

Dang, I followed the exosuit method and it's still returning empty...

Hm... I changed my errorcode to something different and it's still the same in-game... so the problem the whole time is possibly with the harmony patching...

IT WORKS! This whole time I've been so stupid... I was checking to see if ModSystem was enabled instead of Mod.... I feel so stupid. Thanks for your patience and help, though! I just need to fix a couple small bugs and then I can probably get some people to try testing it on their systems

[simple comet]

Yup, just crashed on 1.20.12 after ~4 hours of stable multiplayer.

Apparently I had the server running overhaullib_0.2.7 though. We'll see if 0.2.9 fixes it. 😅

Nope.

Sure didn't, so now it's crashing consistently.

[near beacon]

hate to be the guy who immediately runs to the discord for mod help but can someone help me make heads or tails of this?

this is in a server and we just randomly crash

[gritty nimbus]

I'm here troubleshooting the same issue. Maltiez posted an explanation. With the mod author's answer being "don't run a 1.20.11+ server with my mod" and with 1.21.0 around the corner, I don't expect we'll ever see a fix for this index error on this version.

[gritty nimbus]

If your server is brand new, no progress on it, consider trying a different game version for now.

[near beacon]

oh fr? damn

[near beacon]

could you roll back without starting a new world or is that not worth it?

[gritty nimbus]

Hmm. Well, unfortunately 1.20.11 implemented huge RAM optimizations on servers, so rolling back behind that might suck. Every modded VS server I've run has tended to chew up all 32gigs of RAM over time due to, I can only assume, mod introduced memory leaks. So if you're running a modded run, you're gonna want the RAM optimizations.

More to the point of what you asked, though, I found this resource that may help.

https://www.vintagestory.at/forums/topic/10676-guide-multiple-parallel-installations-of-vintage-story/

[near beacon]

ah bolls

[gritty nimbus]

Yeah. I don't want to roll back or play without CO, so I'll probably be seeking a solution. I'll poke you if I find something.

[near beacon]

please do, i only have 12 gigs on a server so we are kinda fucked

[hollow pasture]

I look forward to seeing your mod in action!

If you ever need help with the visual overlay part of the mod, just let me know and I can do the art for it if you're interested

[final garden]

Visual overlay? Oh right, the visor blocking! That actually could be really helpful

[brave canyon]

Ooh, wonderful! You got it working? Hell yeah!

Good work! And good stuff on not giving up!

It is always the dumb errors most often then not as well, haha.

[hollow cargo]

Yeah i had 12.9 too. Honestly idk what I did (I went in an messed with stuff) but it seems to be stable now.

[final garden]

Ach, I'm glad I double checked each helmet again with CO

This one isn't as bad, but still a little jank

[brave canyon]

I still love that you can see the eyes through there

[final garden]

I'm gonna publish it now and fix the stupid iron helmet tomorrow or something

[brave canyon]

Totally reasonable, take your time with it.

But good work!

[final garden]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/25742

[brave canyon]

Hell yes! It lives!

-# Time to open up another Tab as I gather mods to add to the list...

[final garden]

It's brand new, though. I'm sure people will find issues somewhere

[brave canyon]

There's always going to be unexpected complications, and it's usually a dumb error as well :P

Like, so many times I forgot just one dumb thing... For example: starting up a While () loop and then entirely forgetting to even bother implementing the counter that should be incrementing to eventually break out of it...

Whoops

Cue people being like "Hey, I did this and suddenly the server stopped responding...? It didn't crash though, it just... stopped."

Both the biggest issue I could cause, and the easiest damn fix for it too :P

[prisma basin]

Aah,a dependency changed when I wasn't looking.
Yoink.

[ivory charm]

Brand new or not, mods always have their little quirks, I'm sure you'll figure out most of them without a problem :3

[hollow pasture]

It's everywhere, and by it, I mean my rusty gears

[hollow pasture]

Would you like the visor overlays to be as realistically obscuring as possible, or do you think having a bit more visibility would be more feasible?

To be honest the hounskull variants don't obscure much, but those bronze, copper, and silver/gold helmets seem to have a substantially more occluded view

It would make sense from a balance standpoint to make the lower tiers more obstructive as you move up in the technology tree, but also most people don't make copper/bronze plate anyways

[austere phoenix]

Do you know of any way to fix it? I know I can just wear weak armor but it's kind of lame handicapping myself.

I wish there was a mod that maxed out the damage resistance cap. It shouldn't be possible for a drifter to deal .1 damage

[hollow pasture]

If they deal less than 0.1 it's typically ignored I believe

But it's not like armor is overpowered either, especially in the base game where bellheads will still 3-4 shot you through steel plate and shields are basically useless

[austere phoenix]

I get that. But armor does make majority of the game a cakewalk

I just want to make it so the max resitence you get is like 70%

[hollow pasture]

This isn't something you can do with combat Overhaul and would require another mod if you want the max amount of damage reduced from any attack to be 70% without making yourself naked and only making every enemy do 30% of their damage.

Armor has penalties for a reason, and they are especially punishing in the base game

[hollow pasture]

I'm not sure what you mean by a cakewalk either. What specific parts are made too easy by combat overhaul's armor/base game armor?

[austere phoenix]

Normal mobs deal .1 damage in forlorn armor with basic chainmail

I can stand still and not die. Bell heads and actual damaging mobs are only in deep caves and certain ruins

[hollow pasture]

Do you wear a gambeson under this? Also "basic" to me means iron, but feel free to correct me

Also, if you have the game open right now I would appreciate a reminder on how much Blunt resistance the forlorn hope armor gives so that I can run it through the table

[austere phoenix]

Yea iron chainmail, I dont have the game open I'm in bed rn, all I know is I have full forlorn hope armor, metoric chain, steel chain, and gold chain, so a bit of a mix. And with this, drifters that deal 5 damage deal .1, even after hitting me 7 times in a row.

[hollow pasture]

But no gambeson?

[austere phoenix]

Linen gambeson

Linen coif and the leg bit

I got all slots filled

[hollow pasture]

Then if you're fighting drifters just take off your gambeson if you want to get hit harder

[austere phoenix]

I get that, but I am not a fan of artificial handicap. It feels kind of lame, especially when you then die only to go back to the 99% damage resitence out of rage

[hollow pasture]

Well then I wish I could help you more, but it's just how the damage system works

[tranquil onyx]

You could try to meddle with the mod’s config to increase damage dealt to players’ limbs and/or body, or head even if you want to have a really bad time against high tier enemies (ConfigLib provides a UI for changing that in-game). I’m not sure if this will translate well to low level rust creatures being more dangerous, though, so I speculate

Otherwise you’d probably have to make a modlet to say, adjust what tiers of attacks enemies have

[prisma basin]

Are people complaining about armour layering still?

I genuinely wonder why people simply refuse to wear mail under their plate.

[tranquil onyx]

It’s heavy; it slows down your attacks and movespeed. Wearing just gambeson and plate is sufficient most of the time

[prisma basin]

Aah,there's the community's myopic and senseless obsession with speed again.

[tranquil onyx]

• wearing 3 layers requires you to have a lot of backpack or just storage space

[prisma basin]

Gambeson,mail,and plate all at once? You're borderline indestructible. Speed becomes a non-factor,since you'll never need to run away.

[lyric marsh]

i just think it's unnecessary, should've been a separate mod

[prisma basin]

And since you're borderline indestructible,you won't need to heal,either.

The only threats that remain are gravity,drowning,and starvation,since you can parry the enemies that can actually penetrate your armour still.

Armour does its job. So let it do its job.

[tranquil onyx]

And with that you don’t need 3 layers of protection, so what gives?

[prisma basin]

Because eating hits is still guaranteed. We're not perfect. But you can parry enemies enough to win every fight,so you can doff your cuirass and bandage up.

Or snarf down some Expanded Foods fruit bread.

[tranquil onyx]

Yeah, a big no to that

[prisma basin]

The point I'm making is,squeezing a small amount of extra movement speed out of the system while exposing yourself to significant damage is utterly nonsensical.

You can't move if you're dead. If you're borderline indestructible,you don't need to run fast.

[tranquil onyx]

I mean, fine, I get your point and see what the conclusion of the debacle is. I don’t find it personally fun to be indestructible, though, so I don’t use the mod to its fullest extent

[lyric marsh]

and if you can outrun something, you can't get hit by it

it's why fleetfooted is disproportionately powerful

[simple comet]

Better luck than I had, even with the updated files I had consistent crashing running a server. It is what it is, it'll have to go without CO and all until 1.21 goes stable and Maltiez has time/desire to do an update. The players didn't want to revert to 1.20.10. 😅

[final garden]

I feel like it'll mostly need some playtesting to decide. Personally, I don't think it should be too absurdly obstructive, since it's still a game and it may discourage people too much if they make a cool helmet and then find out they can barely see in it

[prisma basin]

Well,I rocked a Malefactor,because I never did a run around javelins,maces,and slings yet.
Since this basically makes me an Age of Empires II Skirmisher,what would that mean I wear over my gambeson? Mail,scale,or brigandine?

[final garden]

@hollow pasture Would you mind testing out the visors for me? I want to make sure they work on different systems and different versions. (I only tested it with my own stuff, version 1.20.7 vintage and I think an outdated CO)

[pseudo elbow]

YES YEA YES

MORE

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, I was going to test it last night, but you showed off that the hounskull needed a patch so I was gonna wait on that before doing my first impressions

[hollow pasture]

@final garden I cannot seem to get the visor to lower when pressing V

Rebinding the key to something else doesn't seem to work either

[hollow pasture]

It also appears like the top surface of this visor is either culled or untextured in game. The same is true for the closed visor variant, but I could understand if that was intentional

Your armor values are also adjusted to the old values of Combat Overhaul's balance

[final garden]

I'm not entirely sure what you're pointing out here.

[final garden]

Ah, yeah, so I definitely need to make some changes for the new version of combat overhaul

[final garden]

I suspect that have to do with combat overhaul. Can you try it with combat overhaul disabled? I just want to see if the issue is related to Vintage Story or CO

I'll take a look at it myself once I'm done my work for today

[hollow pasture]

They gap created by having the wedge shaped this way is significantly reduced with the visor down, so it's not really a problem

[final garden]

Yeah, I have combatoverhaul0.1.23, so the issue you have here is probably because my code doesn't reference overhaullib like it should in the newer stuff

Time to update my stuff

[final garden]

@hollow pasture All fixed up for the overhaul lib

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/25742

Patch 1.0.1 should work with Vintage Story 1.20.12 and the newest version of combat overhaul

[final garden]

@full dune @night crest @gleaming citrus Sorry for the random ping, but I just figured I'd send a message to let those who expressed interest know that visored helmets is now released!

[full dune]

thank you!!

[prisma basin]

That would be perfect for players who use ranged weapons until either they approach or the enemy approaches.

"Helms down! Weapons up! Fight like it's payday!"

[final garden]

I hope people give me some feedback about the balancing on that, don't want people to feel like it's useless or OP

[prisma basin]

I'm currently rocking a Malefactor,who's basically designed around a hybrid ranged/melee playstyle.

I'll let you know.

But,first: What would such a combatant wear over their gambeson? Mail,scale,or brigandine?

Related: Do slings to Blunt or Piercing damage?

[final garden]

Hmmm, I actually don't know

Slings were mostly left untouched by combat overhaul

[prisma basin]

Damage types don't exist in vanilla,so...

[final garden]

It's been asked before, I just don't remember the answer... Have you checked the handbook?

[prisma basin]

Not yet,and I'm about to turn in,so I can't check right now.

[hollow pasture]

Maille and plate/brigandine aren't a bad choice, but you'd definitely want to forego the arm armor, maybe only armoring it with upper arm maille (no different than maille gloves, but the arms look cooler)

[night crest]

Cheers mate

[hollow pasture]

Alright, so I did some brief testing, I got some pictures of all of the helmets matched to their appropriate plate/maille sets with a stand-in for a lance (pike) whilst on elkback. I'll send them to you tomorrow, but here are my "critiques"

The only "flaw" I ran into is just a product of late helmet design not using large maille aventails. I saw some clipping while using your steel visored helmet with the maille (in the bottom left and right corners of around the face), but honestly it looks fine to a normal person who's not being nitpicky.

The next is sort of something I someday wish to see, but lies outside the simple scope of this mod
-Animation where the seraph raises (or lowers, but not necessary) the visor with his hand
-The previously mentioned hud overlays
-Slight transparency for breathing holes on the iron hounskull, and maybe an extra cuboid on the nose to make it pointier
-Visor functionality on restored Blackguard and Forlorn helmets

And now, the praise.
Besides the things I mentioned about the hounskull, it's everything I could have wanted from such a specific mod. It provides a good rp option for servers, practical option for actual play, and does it all in a way that appeals to me more than vanilla. I totally forgot to check if your smithing recipes were functional though, so I'll have to do that tomorrow, but otherwise all of the functionality and stat changes for everything was what it should be. Massive props for turning a pipe dream shared between a few different people and making it a reality, and I look forward to contributing to it more in the near future. Thanks again!

[fallow surge]

There is 1.21 version of Overhaul lib and firearms, crossbows dont need any changes, CO needs some, but work in general. Armor models in inventory borked, some of them.
But the important part is: I need someone to reproduce the multiplayer bug reported earlier with index out of range.

[glossy oracle]

Thanks for your work maltiez just a little unfortunate not to have v 1.20.12 for the guns

[fallow surge]

1.20.12 copmared to 1.20.10 is just some performance update, so no problem just running 1.20.10 version of the game with no crashes

And for singleplayer, you can use 1.20.12

So I see no huge problem here

[tranquil onyx]

Question: what weapon type does Poleaxe count as? Where can I find that information in the mod’s files also?

[glossy oracle]

wait it doesnt crash anymore?

oh I missread well the perfomance update is quiete a important one

cause when I played at 1.20.4 the ram usage server and pc wise was 20-30% higher

[fallow surge]

I fixed one of the two crashes. The other one that happens in multiplayer is not fixed.

1.20.11 is when these crashes were introduced

Thanks to radfast optimisations

[vagrant vapor]

Are these the crashes that happens when I want to use bows (and crossbows), where my client or friends client just shuts down without a crashlog?

[fallow surge]

Crash when using ranged weapons is fixed. Crash with index out ranged in multiplayer is not.

[simple comet]

Oh, I can send my log file.

"System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array."

This is from a multiplayer server, as client. The server hard crashed, no log produced.

In fact, the four times it crashed, no log was produced. 🤔

server-debug just... didn't save?

That's combined crash logs from overhaullib_0.2.7 and 0.2.9, by the way. Happened identically, both versions.

[gleaming citrus]

very badass, thank you

[final garden]

Glad to hear it! The steel helmet issue bugs me, but yeah, it looked mostly ignorable. I'll have to see about the hounskull at some point, but I think because of all the cuboids in the snout transparency is pretty tricky and I recall fully pointing the snout was problematic, but I'd love to fix that so I'll give it a shot at some point.

The arm thing would require an animation override on the left arm, wouldn't it? I think CO has some functionality for implementing animations like that, but that's definitely something I wanted to do if it wasn't a huge hassle. Trickiest part I see is balancing the animation with mechanically using the left hand. I.E. what happens when a player swings their polearm while visor is raised. Suppose I could make the visor shut itself.

A few people have asked for functioning versions of the lore helmets, so I'll probably do that at some point (I don't think it'll be too tricky). I just don't want to override the base armours

Had a silly idea where you get the vanilla helmets that have visors to move by getting them 'unstuck' with fat or oil

Could also just use the helmet + nailsandstrips approach, though

[fallow surge]

I need this crash to be reproduced with latest overhaullib version which is for 1.21

[prisma basin]

@final garden
According to the mod description,the visor button is currently unconfigurable? If so,looks like I'll need to rebind the vanity key. Or just disable Vanity.

[fallow surge]

I will make skipEntityTags behave the same way as EntityTags, so for example it will be easier to exclude specific defence types for predators that can bypass them... Hope Radfast wont be angry at me for affecting performance a bit.

[simple comet]

What specific mods of yours would the server need to be running on 1.21-pre to capture the data you're after?

[fallow surge]

CO

and the lib

[simple comet]

Okay, just Combat Overhaul, and overhaullib. I'll try to set up a test server and players tonight, and see if we can't get it to crash with a log for you.

[fallow surge]

But I'm not sure, may be it is a compatibility issue and wont reproduce on just these two

[simple comet]

Okay, if that doesn't work, I'll add the other mods (armory, crossbow, firearm, animations, etc.) and see what happens.

[fallow surge]

May be it is connected to player model replacers, but I checked logs of the crash reports, and haven't found them, may be I just missed them

[simple comet]

Unless your mods replace player models, I haven't had any of those running on my server.

[fallow surge]

They can be client side. May be only some ppl got crashed, that had them.

[simple comet]

I see. Well, unless someone is doing that and not mentioning it, we should all be running 100% identical modpacks.

I'll make certain to ask, though.

Tracking down variables is hard enough, and I'm always willing to help where I can!

Specifically, and this was in 1.20.12, no crashing happened until shortly after a player crafted a simple bow. That player crashed, rejoined, and that crashed the server with the log I sent earlier. I'll be trying to get the server to crash by spawning in resources to make simple bows, and have a hunter make them and pass them out.

Prior to that, it ran for ~4 hours.

[austere phoenix]

Same here. There should be a cap to the amount of damage mitigated.

[tranquil onyx]

And even then swing speed is still a concern with 3 layers

Gambeson and Forlorn plate allow you to comfortably stick in 2 attacks before you need to block against melee attacks, which I don’t think would be feasible with 3 layers (plate, chain, gambeson)

[austere phoenix]

Does armor slow down attack speed?

[prisma basin]

Allegedly.

As a Blackguard,at least,decked out in full plate,I was able to get two to three attacks in between parries with a zweihander.

[fallow surge]

There is https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/25388 for ppl that want CO for multiplayer for 1.20.11 and 1.20.12

[fallow surge]

Try putting on/off clothes and armor

[fallow surge]

I reproduced it, thanks for offering help

Hm, I missed this post, otherwise I could just fixed it earlier.

Better to ping me next time

[torpid smelt]

I thought you were taking a break and didn't wanna bother you.

[fallow surge]

Yeah, but still better to ping, if I'm taking a break I will just ignore it and look into it later.

[torpid smelt]

Okay, will keep this in mind next time. Thanks for fixing

Wait, my mod is still needed for 1.20 servers

[fallow surge]

I will recompile it back for 1.20.12. I just need to install this version of the game back

[final garden]

Unfortunately yes, for now. I plan on adding a config for it, but don't know how yet, so it's another thing to figure out

[fallow surge]

Use hotkeys functionality, it will add it into setting/controls automagicaly

[fallow surge]

Done, released the fix for 1.20.12

1.20.11 pathced broke the lib more then 1.21 ...

[prisma basin]

ponders skipping copper weapons and armour and going right for bronze

[final garden]

I do that every time

Mostly skip copper tools, too

I usually forgo armour until iron, too

[prisma basin]

I couldn't find any surface tin. So,I need to prospect for it,now.

I tend to restrict myself to nothing higher than bronze until I complete the Archive.

After all,since you're expected to give up a bronze pick for the location,you're expected to go there with bronze.

[final garden]

Ah, yeah. I'm playing on a server with a couple buddies and we're at steel now and still haven't archived

Because the one guy who hasn't been before doesn't play much

[final garden]

I find this incredibly amusing. Thanks to Maltiez pointing it out: the visors button is already reconfigurable. I already programmed it in and was too dense to realize that's what I did

[prisma basin]

Oh?

Any majiggery I need to do on my end?

[final garden]

No, just go to settings and change it under controls xD

[prisma basin]

Righto!

If nothing else,your mod is perfect for roleplay and immersion.

Visor up while traveling and shooting. Drop the visor once melee is joined.

[final garden]

Thanks! Sounds like people are having fun with it now. I love to hear it and I can't believe it's already got like 170+ downloads

[prisma basin]

The iron helm is a houndskull bascinet,I think...?

[final garden]

Yeah, right at the bottom there. I'll have to add it into the lang file, but it's already reconfigurable

[final garden]

That's the idea! It was probably the most frustrating design to make

[prisma basin]

The beaky helm is *fashion,*honey.

At least it ain't no frogsmouth.

[ashen matrix]

Soulsborne armors in CO, everybody running around with a steel greatsword and the onionbro armor

Siegwards and Siegmeyers as far as the eye can see

[final garden]

I'm not gonna lie, I love frogsmouth

It's so silly and impractical

[simple comet]

Seems like that's how it goes sometimes!

I'll still be trying to reproduce the exact crash tonight, on multiplayer, with the bow (I strongly suspect it was the bow, anyway) and so on. Might as well see what happens with the most recent versions.

[fallow surge]

It isnt

[onyx lark]

Whoops, that was the wrong crashlog

I and friends keep getting a critical error in overhaullib.

[brave canyon]

Hey @fallow surge, just got this possible crash log - but hard to say if it's really CO or anything, just maybe it's related to that multiplayer issue. Came from a Client Crash Log.

6/24/2025 5:25:17 PM: Critical error occurred
Loaded Mods: 
System.InvalidOperationException: Server sent me an entity packet for entity player, but I cannot instantiate/update it, entity is null
   at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientSystemEntities.HandleEntitiesPacket(Packet_Server serverpacket) in VintagestoryLib\Client\Systems\Entities.cs:line 246
   at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientMain.ExecuteMainThreadTasks(Single deltaTime) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientMain.cs:line 786
   at Vintagestory.Client.GuiScreenConnectingToServer.RenderToDefaultFramebuffer(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\MainMenu\Screens\GuiScreenConnectingToServer.cs:line 254
   at Vintagestory.Client.ScreenManager.Render(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ScreenManager.cs:line 695
   at Vintagestory.Client.ScreenManager.OnNewFrame(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ScreenManager.cs:line 670
   at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientPlatformWindows.window_RenderFrame(FrameEventArgs e) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientPlatform\GameWindow.cs:line 88
   at OpenTK.Windowing.Desktop.GameWindow.Run()
   at Vintagestory.Client.ClientProgram.Start(ClientProgramArgs args, String[] rawArgs) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientProgram.cs:line 334
   at Vintagestory.Client.ClientProgram.<>c__DisplayClass10_0.<.ctor>b__1() in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientProgram.cs:line 130
   at Vintagestory.ClientNative.CrashReporter.Start(ThreadStart start) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientPlatform\ClientNative\CrashReporter.cs:line 93```
Isn't my log but I saw it posted in another server, and it followed that similar Index Out Of Bounds issue 4 days prior, and they said it was happening when someone was joining with Vanity slots hidden (I believe CO ones?) and anyone who looked at them when they were loading in ended up crashing.

[gleaming dagger]

Suddenly im completely unable to attack with any weapon with the CO mod enabled. It was working a few hours ago any ideas why?

[gleaming dagger]

Never Mind i figured it out, poor reading comprehension.

[simple comet]

Good news/bad news. We couldn't get the server to crash last night, which is excellent, and the "bad" news is very minor visual issues on armor.

Nothing else to report at this point.

[fallow surge]

Yeah, some armor icons are borked

[simple comet]

If that's the biggest issue, chalk it up as a win! I really thought we could get it to crash as before.

[onyx lark]

this is happening when clothes get taken off?

[prisma basin]

What does choking up and down on a javelin do?

[brave canyon]

Lets you do a little dance like Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gaaal…

Heheh. But I think it might change the throwing arc, and/or range if you stab with it

[hollow pasture]

@final garden I found a mod in Blade and sorcery that allows me to see the inside of helmets (i.e. your vision gets occluded by them) and I doubt this is what you want for your armets? Spoiler because blood (maybe gore, idk I'm too blind to tell)

[mint pine]

unrealistic, the visor is closer to your eyes so you are able to see more so than you can in the video you sent

[hollow pasture]

It is a more fantastical style of visor, but the visor is still around where it would be irl. You can see the bottom of the armet, which means the camera is too far away though; normally that would be pushed almost against your chin

Also keep in mind that is only slightly greater than half of my field of view because it's using a technique that merges the left eye image to the right in order to create an image that looks mostly homogenous. I'll be uploading a video to my channel shortly that has footage with both eyes recording seperately placed side by side though if you're curious

[final garden]

Yeah, that doesn't look very fun. Not for any real length of time, anyway

[hollow pasture]

tbf real visors aren't either, but neither of us want this specifically 🤣

[final garden]

Yeah, I usually put fun over realism. I know some people would like it, but I think most would find it's too much

[prisma basin]

When using XSkills,what skill would improve mace output?

[tranquil onyx]

Swords.

[prisma basin]

Weird,but I'll take it.

[tranquil onyx]

Xskills was made with vanilla in mind, but most 1h/2h weapons that are not spears count as swords, polearms should count as spears and anything ranged-related is bows

[prisma basin]

Something people who make visor overlays tend to do wrong: The nasal bridge section would be imperceptible unless you cross your eyes to look directly at it,thanks to how binocular vision works.

[ivory charm]

You could see alright in a helmet with visor, nobody would've ridden a horse with visor otherwise

[prisma basin]

That,too. The faceplate was typically basically pressing against your face.

Unless you're wearing a sugarloaf/great helm.

Those were made large enough to wear an underhelm with.

[fallow surge]

In most closed helmets you have your down and up peripheral vision cut off, and it is hard to see what is right before you at waist height and lower (and the lower it is, the further away it can be hard to see). Dunno about up, never had look fro something above me in helmet.

Also in a some helmets sounds become muffed

I have a lot of time practising in tightly fitted barbute for example. It had all of these problems

[prisma basin]

I can imagine you almost never need to look up when fighting the medieval and renaissance ways.
Looking *down,*however,would still be pretty important. That being said,you can have a pretty good idea of exactly where your opponent's weapon is,even when it's out of sight,simply by the way they're moving.

[dusky stream]

Any way to make other weapon mods compatible with this

[prisma basin]

I imagine you'd more or less copy the JSON file of the closest comparable vanilla weapon,then tweak from there. Could be wrong,though.

[final garden]

I've made overhaul weapons before

It's basically just, if you don't want to overcomplicate it, you could just copy the overhaul weapon jsons and change the desired values

It gets trickier if you want custom animations or control schemes

[ivory charm]

I mean honestly id get custom animations, but the control schemes are pretty good for most weapons you could still add

[prisma basin]

Not every weapon has directional attacks.

Maces,for example,only get one attack. Unlike swords which get chops,uppercuts,thrusts,and cuts from either side.

And spears get a high thrust and a low thrust.

[glossy oracle]

when you going to drop your training footage 😄

[austere phoenix]

ive been trying to get hostile enemies to do meaningful damage to me while wearing armor and it still dosent seem to do anything. I have shivers dealing 20 damage per hit and they still only do .1 damage most of the time aside from the odd 3 damage hit. How can i make this current armor setup i have be less effective at blocking hits??

bellhead shivers deal a lot of damage, and when they deal negated damaged its still 3 or 4, so they end up being the only threat in my playthrough

i dont want to make every enemy deal 30 damage like the bellhead however

i just want this armor to be less effective

[glossy oracle]

best way is to tweak attack speed / movement / hunger / healing rate

in the end as long as the enemys dont have armor piercing values

where plate is severly countered instead a flat dmg type there is no way to balance this.

flat dmg hurts everyone but armour pen only the ones stacking armour

@fallow surge curious if you ever thought about adding a armour piercing mechanic (technically its the blunt dmg type) but not sure its just the bells doing blunt and some animals

but otherwise @austere phoenix just adjust the stats from that armour to be steel / iron so its more a novelty thing to wear forlon hope armour

or make the plate armour only good against slashing and the piercing nerf it by 80%

whats the stat of it anyway

[austere phoenix]

ill take a look at the armor stats. Do you think maybe changing everyenemies attack type to "Bluntdamage" would work?

[glossy oracle]

you could add that to every enemy yes

[austere phoenix]

like in the json

[glossy oracle]

that should make them have that dmg type and resulting hurting armoured plebs more

but if you truly just want to adjust the forlorn hope armour

its easier to just change the stats for it

[austere phoenix]

so its the forlorn hope armor thats making enemies deal .1 damage

[glossy oracle]

yes but no

compare just the dmg with iron / steel

its the whole layering which is the "broken" part

but if you wear bronze plate its a lot more balanced in terms of dmg for example

[austere phoenix]

so where in the mod file is the armor json file?

[glossy oracle]

its in the combat overhaul mod in itself

every armour is shown there

btw any mod with compatability with combat overhaul is structured like that

for example only spears I adjusted to my liking

"manipulation speed" is the attack speed for example

don't forget to differentiate in forlon hope armour / black guard there are broken ones and damaged and pristine condition

you could just go trough every plat armour and reduce piercing by -4 and that should nerf every plate by a margin

or slashing

[austere phoenix]

ok, what does flat reduction mean? could i set a max mitigation there?

[glossy oracle]

not sure what it means but i think its the vanilla values

where it just flat reduces 10% of the dmg you receive

but yeah if it were me I would just nerf piercing with the idea of that the enemys hit the gap between the armor and hitting the chainmil / gambeson bits

[austere phoenix]

ah ok. so to recap, i should set peircing attack to like 4 and slashing attack to 4 and that should

ok

[glossy oracle]

just reduce the armour stats to make it less tanky

but you should makes ure to compare it to iron

or steel

you could ofc just copy those stats but even in iron full plate your technically unkillable

[austere phoenix]

so bronze plate says its resistence are 5, and thats more balanced in your opinion

[glossy oracle]

just test it out

[austere phoenix]

alright, thanks for the suggestions

[glossy oracle]

its just you can look at the overall stats and bronze is i believe just a more middle ground but should it be the late late game armor stats?

having the armor be almost immune to only slashing but being vulnerable to blunt / piercing is sounding a lot more balanced

you still tank more than someone wearing brigandine in 1 department

[dusky stream]

Isn't this like the best heavy armor aside from steel

[glossy oracle]

isnt it better than steel?

but even in iron / steel your practically unkillable

[austere phoenix]

steel seems to be better, aside from movement speed

[glossy oracle]

ah lol would have thought the ancient fancy stuff is best but I was wrong

[dusky stream]

Given you get additional protection from the armour layers you get from CO I don't see what's wrong with being hard to kill

[austere phoenix]

well i was wondering, what is forlorn armor even made of? it looks like copper

[dusky stream]

I assume that's sort of the intent

[glossy oracle]

that its just a bad gameplay experience.

or at least for the ones looking for a challenge.

[dusky stream]

I mean if you're Solo you're gonna likely need good protection for story related combat lol

[glossy oracle]

and not sort of godmode after spending iron on it

well did we talk about solo?

like if we imagine 3 people with full plate they can go afk and get some kfc

and none of them be dead while being attacked by 40 mobs

[dusky stream]

still forlorn hope armour can't be made, you need to find broken versions of it

[glossy oracle]

except if there is blunt dmg

either way

[dusky stream]

So it being pretty good given its rarity is fair imo

[glossy oracle]

my point is the moment something makes the game mechanics redundant is bad. That's also the reason why I use combat overhaul as the vanilla combat is just shit.

[glossy oracle]

if it only would be that just make iron and your godmode too

and iron isnt that rare

you see the point?

[dusky stream]

from what I experience even with iron you're not unkillable, unless you use armour layers in CO

[glossy oracle]

why would you use plate and no other armour underneath?

like if you refer to plate armour any individual thinks about the whole set

in a historian context too

the plate itself is fine I agree

but you put on plate usually once you already made the other 2 layer

[dusky stream]

I mean in terms of Vanilla, only being able to wear one set is expected to have advantages and drawbacks

[glossy oracle]

but we dont speak about vanilla

we speak about the mod balance

that the mod adds 3 dmg types and your immune to 2 with the whole layering

and they only have bellhead and bellshiver? as blunt or any other animals if I recall

[dusky stream]

regardless from what I recall given all the penalties you get from all full sets the protection is fine

[austere phoenix]

so i tested it out, they deal more damage, but for lower teir mobs they still for the majority of the time do these .1 damage attacks. its only when i get to nightmarish they start to deal either high damage attacks or 3 damage

[glossy oracle]

tbf lower tier mobs dont need to do dmg

as they have like 1-2 dmg ?

[glossy oracle]

the penalties are not much

[austere phoenix]

i set the lowest teir shiver to do 20 damage

[glossy oracle]

for the godlike unkillability

[austere phoenix]

and it still only does like .1 damage

[glossy oracle]

how much does it do when having chain / gambeson on?

you can just count together how much body protection you have on xyz body part

and make the adjustment of balancing to that

[final garden]

These helmets are sort of dorky to use. They don't line up well to begin with

[glossy oracle]

why not remove the face completely?

or rather the visor

is not really immersive if its gone but eh hanging it off to the side doesnt work either

[final garden]

https://tenor.com/view/givemeyourface-give-me-your-face-transformers-optimus-prime-gif-6906047961628023525

Eh, it's not too tricky to do it the way I have already

[glossy oracle]

but does it look good

in that context it looks just like garbage bin someone put on 😄

https://tenor.com/view/trash-cans-dancing-trash-cans-trash-can-dancing-trash-can-shut-up-gif-10635749845195881845

[final garden]

Probably looks better than just removing it outright, but honestly, I'm not sure

[glossy oracle]

i think removing it outright is better or not offer the option

[prisma basin]

Are mace heads one ingot or two?

[final garden]

One

[glossy oracle]

it looks to me like a normal fully helmet with no visor

thats what I would assume the intention was of the original dev

put on and be quiete like type :"D

[final garden]

Maybe, I always thought it was some sort of weird visored helmet, especially since it comes off in the broken version

[glossy oracle]

nothing to fancy and that would fit the blackguard

cause when I saw the blackguard it felt like if it does the job it's good no fancy stuff

wait lemme find a picture

cause ididnt know that 😄

[glossy oracle]

could one assume it just a broken helmet?

[final garden]

And it has a sort of weird cloth cover underneath

[glossy oracle]

i mean yeah butwith the spike on top

[glossy oracle]

not sure how youd move a helmet up there

i think the cloth is

always on

but not on the eye area

[final garden]

Yeah, but I think the hinges are on the top

[glossy oracle]

it makes sense looking at biker helmets

[final garden]

Those are the lighter coppery parts maybe?

[glossy oracle]

they do are extra accented

it's up to you but if you ask me it looks to silly to implement just make it a new cannon

either none removable

[final garden]

Either way, people have been asking me about the blackguard helmets, that's why I was considering it

Maybe, yeah

[glossy oracle]

or the other way where its just missing the front pieces

cause the other helmets you made are clear cut and understandable and look good

looking at that roman helmet

[final garden]

Yeah, I get it. Not sure what the best option is, just figured I'd look into it and see what people think

[glossy oracle]

@austere phoenix are you using armory then its under armory

for the other armour it adds

[austere phoenix]

i just actually solved that mystery as to why my chain was still showing 5 lol

[glossy oracle]

syntex error?

[austere phoenix]

no, the chain was armory

if you make the full body chain

[glossy oracle]

I see

[final garden]

@hollow pasture Your opinion would be appreciated on this (though no hurry). Just trying to decide if I should bother making functional versions of vanilla visor helmets. Most of them seem to open like this

[hollow pasture]

Well this is the in game flavor text for the restored helmet. Sounds to me like the visor was meant to be lowered, but yeah, it seemed that the helmet didn't want to line up to start with when I was messing with the model for Combat Overhaul

I actually only found out about this text because I looked up "visor" in the creative menu and this kept popping up instead of just your helmets 🤣

[hollow pasture]

I think your helmet design seems feasible, and it preserves the vanilla design

I just wish the vanilla design wasn't so mediocre 🤣

[austere phoenix]

well i can safely say ive created an un unkillable combat overhaul experience, all i had to do was reduce all slashing damage protections by 2, make every enemy deal around 10 damage. now armor isnt op

[hollow pasture]

Most of the damage blocked is based on damage tier rather than raw damage, so yeah, reducing the tiers of armor would work way better than just increasing raw damage

Sounds like you're going to have a fun early game though

[final garden]

Yeah, sounds like I opened the visors correctly

I also had a silly idea. While I could make it the same as other helmets where you need nails and strips to make the visor, I am so tempted to make it where you just need to use animal fat or something, especially with the lore helmets, as if you just needed to lube up the rusty hinges

[final garden]

Yeah, looks kinda goofy

[prisma basin]

What about side-hinged visors? Those existed,did they not?

[final garden]

Most likely, but it seems pretty clear in the default helmets that the hinges are at the top

[stark quail]

Maybe have it be half visor like Armet and have only the upper part hinge?

[hollow pasture]

From everything that I've seen, these are only plausible with very little evidence suggesting their existence

[hollow pasture]

But then there would have to be a model change to the helmet adding a pivot to the sides of the helmet, I think

[fallow surge]

Seems meaningful enough for me: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DJzwPXaMZL3HfAC2N7zUcmRRIUSrGTB7oO7Q5fszqz8/edit?usp=sharing
You are doing something wrong then

[fallow surge]

There is, just get damage tier high enough

[fallow surge]

If you get a thousand surface drifters or bowtorns, then yeah, if you get one gearfooot or sawblade locust they will be dead in no time

I just dont get it, do you want for armor to work or not? Should all the mods be exactly the same so double headed drifter will deal same damage and same damage tier as surface?

[dusky stream]

Is there a way to make Swordz compatible with this mod

[fallow surge]

there is

[dusky stream]

same for (Not only) Bows expansion?

[fallow surge]

there is also

[dusky stream]

neat

[fallow surge]

any weapon and armor mod

[dusky stream]

if only I knew how to do it on my own lol

[fallow surge]

search this thread for me explaining how to do it

[dusky stream]

btw is it normal that most weapons return to vanilla attacks if you have something in your offhand

or is it just a spear thing

[fallow surge]

So "most weapons" means "just spears"?
Also no, I just tested, all works just fine.

[dusky stream]

So it's just a spear thing

[fallow surge]

no idea, you dont make sense

[dusky stream]

maybe im imagining the animation looking vanilla with an offhand

in other news I havent managed to find you explaining how to add compatibility

[fallow surge]

thats bad, probably someone here will explain

[dusky stream]

I think someone already told me a part of it a few days ago but I can't find the post for some reason

[glossy oracle]

It was more a question if it would be possible to add a armor pen mechanic. As i am not sure how many different types of blunt dmg there is in vanilla.

[brave canyon]

There is an armor pen mechanic though? It's the weapon tier puncturing through the resistance. Like, it's the whole basis of the armor system in CO really.

Higher tier rates punch through higher tier resistances

[glossy oracle]

But it isn't really noticeable on most mobs. If you stack it your virtually unlikable by majority of the vanilla enemys.

[brave canyon]

If by 'majority' you mean like, Surface Drifters when you are around home? Well yeah

Those are the lowest enemy

[glossy oracle]

I mean about anyone

[brave canyon]

But I've had my ass kicked in iron gear when going underground

[glossy oracle]

When I played last time without tweaking that i can just go to KFC and still be alive

[brave canyon]

When was the last time you played?

Cause it already underwent a rework like, a month or two back.

[glossy oracle]

1.20.7 full plate and tweaked it yesterday and can still face tank it.

[brave canyon]

Against what?

[glossy oracle]

Every type. Mostly. I reduced the steel values to 4/7/4

Also if you do the math having 2 armor stats in the higher 7 is kinda much considering that's the reason why it is even that strong that 2 enemy dmg types are redundant.

[brave canyon]

Cause I don't believe I have any mods that would increase the damage levels, and Nightmare/Corrupt ones still deal a good amount of damage

[glossy oracle]

I am asking again which enemys use blunt attacks it's bells shiver/ some bells

[glossy oracle]

Define good

[brave canyon]

Hell even the tainted ones are pretty strong

[glossy oracle]

Perhaps it's a definition issue.

[brave canyon]

Nightmare can like, 3 shot me

[glossy oracle]

I seriously haven't encountered much nightmare ones in the gameplays i had so 90% of the time it just didn't matter.

I will test later to see the hit amount

[brave canyon]

I mean, they show up fairly frequently during a storm

They also show up heavily in the deep underground if you spend too long in the dark.

[glossy oracle]

Yeah but storms are not a refined mechanic

To long in dark doesn't happen unless you really want to do that

That's what i meant with a competent player it's like semi godmode

So 10% of the enemys who can hit you good are under conditions

[brave canyon]

You also don't balance things for the best players of the game, that's just going to make it horribly un-fun for everyone else

[glossy oracle]

Don't know if it were possible but having a kind of mechanic the more hits you eat you stack a debuff. So you can easily reason to get a armor. But it would also mean taking 6 -8 hits do not much but afterwards you feel it.

[brave canyon]

I run around in the Temporal Storms and have a blast in my iron armor, and still sometimes die, so I don't see any problem with the armor balancing as is.

[glossy oracle]

That's the issue I don't define this as best player rather common sense.

[brave canyon]

The average player doesn't strive to min-max everything though

[glossy oracle]

Let alone plate would be the only one affected by a proper armorpen mechanic. As the other ones won't notice that much of a difference. That's why % armor pen is useless almost against middle type of armor in games.

while typing this @brave canyon I am being attacked by a nightmare shiver they do in average 0.7 dmg ish

in full plate/ chain iron and a gambeson

and once movement is included it's just easy to dodge their attacks iwth that

bellhead shiver 3.0 ish stilt shiver 0.7

[tranquil onyx]

Stilt shivers in CO have very low attack tier for some reason

[glossy oracle]

The main point I was making is 10% of the enemys which can kill you. You just don't see them to often to be a proper threat for plate and making 90% of the other stuff virtually not able to kill you. A armour shattering mechanic would fix that issue for every hit you take you lose 5% of armour stats. Not sure how that would be good perfomance wise but that would mean if you truly play like a tank with 0 regards it will eventually build up onto you the debuff.

[tranquil onyx]

I mean, yeah, I concur - my remark was just a stray thought - I agree that there should be some means of punishing players for stacking defences that make them nigh-invincible against anything that isn’t bowtorns or sawblade locusts

[glossy oracle]

oh yeah sawblades are strong enemys too

i forgot

i think also one of the main issues in this game is more of the way enemy spawns I am not sure but its mostly when there is a void rift for example. Underground you might find 1-2 enemys but not much. I am ofc using the context of the other block game.

It's also the only thing which has spawners the locust. It's also one of the things I dislike about better ruins :"D

[fallow surge]

Just copy this spread sheet and suggest your configuration of armor damage reduction system: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DJzwPXaMZL3HfAC2N7zUcmRRIUSrGTB7oO7Q5fszqz8/edit?usp=sharing

[glossy oracle]

The main issue isnt the balance on overall medium layered stuff is fair (I also made brigandine on my end Outer, Middle.

I don't think adjusting the dmg curve will make it feel good just worse for everyone. What you could ofc just do as a bandaid fix is to add more blunt dmg to enemys who dont visually have it

Perhaps you could add a mechanic if you get hit you lose a part of your sanity. Making brainless face tanking a disaster which is brewing up.

"behaviors": [
{
"name": "CombatOverhaul:Armor",
"properties": {
"Layers": ["Outer"],
"ZonesByType": {"-torso-": ["Torso"], "-arms-": ["Arms"], "-hands-": ["Hands"], "-legs-": ["Legs"], "-feet-": ["Feet"]},
"ResistsByType": {
"-copper-": {"PiercingAttack": 1, "SlashingAttack": 4, "BluntAttack": 1},
"-bronze-": {"PiercingAttack": 2, "SlashingAttack": 5, "BluntAttack": 2},
"-iron-": {"PiercingAttack": 3, "SlashingAttack": 6, "BluntAttack": 3},
"-steel-": {"PiercingAttack": 4, "SlashingAttack": 7, "BluntAttack": 4},
"-gold-": {"PiercingAttack": 2, "SlashingAttack": 4, "BluntAttack": 2},
"-silver-": {"PiercingAttack": 2, "SlashingAttack": 4, "BluntAttack": 2}
},
"FlatReductionByType": {
"-iron-": {"PiercingAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 0, "BluntAttack": 0},
"-steel-": {"PiercingAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 0, "BluntAttack": 0},
"": {"PiercingAttack": 0, "SlashingAttack": 0, "BluntAttack": 0}
},
"PlayerStatsByType": {
"-torso-": {"walkspeed": -0.04, "manipulationSpeed": -0.05, "steadyAim": 0, "healingeffectivness": -0.03, "hungerrate": 0.05},
"-arms-": {"walkspeed": 0, "manipulationSpeed": -0.05, "steadyAim": -0.1, "healingeffectivness": -0.03, "hungerrate": 0.05},
"-hands-": {"walkspeed": 0, "manipulationSpeed": -0.05, "steadyAim": -0.1, "healingeffectivness": -0.03, "hungerrate": 0.05},
"-legs-": {"walkspeed": -0.06, "manipulationSpeed": 0, "steadyAim": 0, "healingeffectivness": -0.03, "hungerrate": 0.05},
"-feet-": {"walkspeed": -0.06, "manipulationSpeed": 0, "steadyAim": 0, "healingeffectivness": -0.03, "hungerrate": 0.05}
}

thats the way I tweaked it not sure if it will be the final one but it was a decent experience

it tackled the issue with the fact that apparently only 4 types of enemy use blunt which are not high end tier

[fallow surge]

After I finish tags system and ai tasks refactoring for vanilla, rewrite player model lib, and fix stuff that was broken by 1.21, I might look into armor balancing one more time. But I think it is good, or at least good enough.

[glossy oracle]

it is good enough for 90% people I agree

but you can guess that when I tweak that stuff I love it to much 😄

Another I dea would be to always have a base dmg of 0.5 for smaller enemys where if you layer to much you dont get a benefit for that anymore

[fallow surge]

If there were proper stamina system, I could have made attacks that dont penetrate armor to deplete stamina, and reduce armor protection when stamina bar is very low. But until there is a mod for stamina system, it wont happen.

[glossy oracle]

which is fair. I am also using the sprint momentum mod to make it less floaty gameplay where you have 100% controll of the movement

[fallow surge]

You should get benefic for layering too much, the whole purpose of layer is for players to use them

[glossy oracle]

have you ever thought about that medium light should instead offer positive manipulation speed?

[glossy oracle]

The benefit would be for medium to high end tiers. But lower ends will always have at least 0.5 dmg

[fallow surge]

No, you cant get exoskeleton by just slapping a bunch of cloth on you

[glossy oracle]

so your indeed going the realistic approach for balancing?

[fallow surge]

The whole game does going the realistic approach, and the mod makes it more realistic... There are limits to it. If you want fantasy armor that gives you +1 intelect, then it should be a separate mod.

You can use exoskeletons mod for manuipulation bonus

[glossy oracle]

well it's not about fantasy in that context but I understand but then I do have to ask this question. Plate's biggest disadvantage was and will always be being swarmed by a bunch of peasants

and being stabbed between the armor gaps

that's why 0.5 wouldnt hurt to much as a base dmg against lower tier mobs at max protection

as realistically the only time I get hit is if I am overwhelmed by enemys.

[fallow surge]

0.5 is a lot of damage actually. it is like a 25% of surface drifter attack

[glossy oracle]

max food hp is 37.5 for a peasant

if we presume plate iron armor

you will have most likely a base hp line of 25 ish or not?

nvm its up to 12.5

[fallow surge]

Then I guess I need to just double all the damage then. Making the strongest posible armor to stop only 75% of damage of the weakest enemy is ridiculous

[glossy oracle]

if you double all the dmg every armor will feel like shit.

[fallow surge]

Ok, I need to focus on work, better to discuss this with @brave canyon .
CO armor and damage system wont change in next couple of months for sure

[glossy oracle]

Why is it such a problem to make lower tier of the enemy roster to have a base dmg at idk 7 slashing protection of 0.5

[glossy oracle]

which is fine!

for that anyone can tweak the stuff

but game design wise nullyfying dmg is bad unless there is a proper debuf armor mechanic otherwise the benefits of plate overshadow everything else.

[fallow surge]

You can rebalance armor via josn patching. ovehraul lib has armor-config.json

[glossy oracle]

As I said I did it!

[tall turtle]

What's the problem then

[ivory charm]

Haii, I know the message itself is a little older x3
Anyway, I've enjoyed looking into Chinese armour recently, so I got a suggestion for armour from the Ming Dynasty Musketeers, since the armour is hard to find online I'll provide ya with 2 pictures (there's barely more sadly, at least those that I could find)
Also they are called either "Chang Shen Da" for a longer version with full sleeves or "Qi Yao Jia" for a "waist long" armour

As you can maybe spot, those are brigandine armours

[opal plinth]

Our server has updated Overhaul Lib to 0.2.10, the one that says it fixed both the bow crash and the clothes/armor crash, but players still crash when they hit enemies/animals with an arrow. Any suggestions?

[ivory charm]

In that same vein, the japanese "counterpart" the Ashigaru might also be a fun addition
they need less of an introduction, as they are much more well known

They could also work for mail

[hard gale]

Very nice suggestions. Once i finish current roadmap, i will definetly consider adding theese

[ivory charm]

I like more armour variations

especially ones from history

also you could maybe consider making some variations for lower tier armour as well, like leather and Gambeson, as thats stuff people still use later

would be great for some servers as well, im sure some people are interested in some cool armour for lots of people, making everyone steel plate may be rather difficult

I get the choice, its supposed to represent power and effort, but its just an idea :3

[glossy oracle]

there is none afterall it's just balance discourse !

[hard gale]

Im definetly into the idea of making more of everything. Even the low tier variants. You know, sky is the limit. Possibilities are pretty vast.

Sadly, im just a guy with a family, full time job and a lot of activities in my community. So on a good week i can spend on modding just a couple of hours.

It can take some time to get there.

[ivory charm]

Yeah dw, I'll wait, this game isn't gonna leave, nor is the community, I got time :3

[final garden]

You're not supposed to just hunker down during a storm. Rush out and pick fights for entertainment, otherwise the storms are just boring as you hide away or craft

[glossy oracle]

"you'

"you"re not supposed to just hunker down during as Storm" is kind of incorrect

it's a choice

[final garden]

You're right, it's a choice. But if you wear the meanest armour and always stay out of combat, it's not a surprise you don't get hurt

[prisma basin]

I personally think it's safest to go out and either run or sail during a storm,than to stay put. Because monsters can spawn right on top of you during a storm,ignoring light levels,looking only for three dimensional space.

If you're in constant motion,you won't have a surprise Nightmare Shiver drop on your head.

[final garden]

Full armour gets very strong, yes, but it's also a pain to make and slows you down. I play with my brother, who always wears partial armour for his archery stuff. He still dies. I wear full plate and the nightmares we regularly fight can do serious damage

[ivory charm]

I tend to sit on my roof, it works like a charm

[final garden]

Yeah, that's fair. You don't really have to worry if you keep running

[prisma basin]

Full armour,all three layers,is borderline invulnerability.
You don't need to run if enemies can't threaten you.
You don't need to heal if enemies can't hurt you.
The only threats you face while wearing full plate is gravity,drowning,and starvation.

And all three of those threats are rather trivial to sidestep.

Hell,your slow speed can be easily ameliorated if you ride an elk.

Or rock a Blackguard.

[final garden]

Perhaps, but you can't outrun faster threats now and I still get swarmed by nightmares while mining as a blackguard

[prisma basin]

Honestly,besides vibes,the only argument against full plate,is because full helms and arm protection beyond gambeson impairs ranged combat stats.

[final garden]

That I agree with

Even my tailor friend wears full plate because there's no reason not to

[prisma basin]

My first CO run was with a Clockmaker.
The only creatures that killed me while I was in full battle rattle was *bears,*and that's because they get too close to me to see when I should parry.

[final garden]

But I'm the only one that wears it even out of exploration/combat, so perhaps I'm biased

[prisma basin]

Armour does its job.
In other news,water makes things wet.

[prisma basin]

I also wear my full battle rattle if I'm leaving my compound.

For any reason.

[final garden]

That's what I mean, though. I don't see a problem with armour stopping hits from stupid weak drifters

[prisma basin]

I almost never encounter top-shelf enemies,outside of storms or fixed spawns at points of interest.

[final garden]

I actually love that they and my friends can throw rocks at me and it just bounces off and my character doesn't even complain

[ivory charm]

No I don't >:3

[tall turtle]

Skill issue

[ivory charm]

Also I know it's kinda outa the scope
but talking about eastern Musketeers would remind me of adding variations to the firearms of the CO extension, like a Tanegashima
I can't cus my digital art skills (generally art skills) are sub par lol

[prisma basin]

I suspect that if you can chisel well in game,you can make models for the game. The modding tools are voxel based.

[ivory charm]

I can't.

That's the whole point

[midnight tartan]

wait why is your name water, this made me laugh harder then it should have lol

[brave canyon]

Hahah

And yeah, I agree with Bronze.

If you actually go out and look for a fight and take advantage of your armor?

Drifters and Bowtorn of like, higher then mid-tier will still be terrifying.

[ivory charm]

cus it is

[brave canyon]

Shivers are intended to be like, the kinda hit and run little bastards who kinda just slap you a bit, quickly a few times, and run away forcing you to chase.

[midnight tartan]

spears do well to "discourage" them lol

[brave canyon]

If they were even stronger then they are now, god that'd be a pain.

Exactly :P

[midnight tartan]

i find myself carrying a spear and a mace

[brave canyon]

As much as my friends say "blunt is better against the Rust Creatures" I'm like MAN

Keeping them at Range?

Yes please thank you.

I can just juggle one or two guys with a spear or my long axe and work to keep them at that sweet spot.

It's so much fun.

SURE maybe it kills them faster using blunt... But I can juggle them and not take a hit because if I get that close, I often get Shiver-nipped heh

[midnight tartan]

yeah it why i have multiple weapons, sometimes there so close that a mace does better

[brave canyon]

Yeah haha

Totally fair really :P

[midnight tartan]

I really just want a pole hammer 😛 range AND blunt

[brave canyon]

Yessss

[ivory charm]

One more thing, do you plan on making different colours for the Landsknecht armour style?

I really enjoy their style, I'm looking forward to that one :3

[final garden]

Cuboid based, not voxel

[final garden]

I usually go club and spear, but now I just carry a greatsword

[prisma basin]

I'm currently rocking a Malefactor,so I'm leaning into the class' strengths: Javelins and maces.

Speaking of: Can you huck javelins with a shield in hand?

[mint pine]

Why do you have my name

[tall turtle]

Why do you have mine

[mint pine]

Most only have it as their last name, im one of the only with it as their first

[tall turtle]

It's not my actual name. It's from a character in an old black and white TV show.

[austere phoenix]

Its not that i want armor not to work, i want low teir damage to still mean something other than .1 tick out of my 27 hp health pool.

but in any case, i ended up lowering every slash and perice protection on armor and chain by 2 all the while raising the damage of all low enemies to around 10. so i found the solution

[mint pine]

This does put a smile on my face

[hard gale]

My idea right now is, to have three different colors mix and match. Only issue is, that it creates 9x9x9 variations for every slot. And thats a lot. If thats too extensive, ill just make it that you can mix two colors for each armor slot.

In the end Landsknechts were much more "show-offs" and "playboys", then knights. And i want it to be reflected in the mod.

[ivory charm]

Hell yeah :3

Also fun fact, Landsknechts used to wear big codpieces and sometimes they'd use em to carry wine

[prisma basin]

A thought: Chain whips. Properly made and used,they can make skulls explode from significant distance.

[final garden]

Welp, it works. Doesn't look like much, but I didn't need to add any new textures to do it

[prisma basin]

Those look like they should be... houndskull bascinets,yeah?

[final garden]

I'm definitely tempted to remake the designs into something more interesting

But for now, I'll just make those ones functional for those who like having the option

[prisma basin]

Tangent: You think the practice of the salute came from people using their weapon hands to lift their visors to greet passersby on the road?

[ivory charm]

I'm pretty sure a salute came from bowing your hat

So after medieval

Like if you took a bow you'd tip your head, was further shortened to just raising your hand to the spot

[mental crane]

Hey, anyone using combat overhaul has an issue with range weapon, my spears and bows doesn't hit the target even when it cleary goes through the target

[brave canyon]

Are you using XSkills as well? Cause if so, you probably have to update both CO and XSkills.

[mental crane]

I do use xskills, I may have an older version of it tho

ill check and update

I think it fixed it

I'll try on other entities tho to be sure

yep it fixed it

thanks man you the goat

[brave canyon]

Haha, no worries.

[tribal flicker]

so i havent played since January, anyone have a TLDR of all the changes this mod has gotten since then?

all the major changes at least

[final garden]

Look at the patch notes

[hazy briar]

Hey so the crossbow wall mount crashes the game any time it is hovered over in the smithing menu

is there a known mod conflict causing this?

[hollow pasture]

I actually had an idea describing a potential mechanic in detail for this, but it's a struggle finding the motivation to do anything that isn't required in life for me rn

[hollow pasture]

I actually really like them the way they are ngl; it feels like it would be odd to do anything else. Maybe try your luck with one of the existing mods that adds new forlorn/blackguard armors that people have been asking for CO support for so long?

[hollow pasture]

I forgot to mention here that the resistance values for everything besides besides blunt damage would become no longer additive like it is now

[hollow pasture]

There is actually

[hollow pasture]

I actually like this part of Vintage Story more than I think most do, because you can pick and choose your threat level you're exposed to (besides storms). This means that if you're planning on the RA? Bring full bronze plate+chain+gambeson and barely survive (Me and 2 friends died multiple times with full bronze and had gears placed outside). Looking for KFC? Bring a iron+ exo so you can cheese the jumping puzzle. I can't speak to the balance of this part because I had a steel plate exo, but I think it still did around 6 or so damage a hit to me.

Also I play with rifts off entirely because they annoy me when they get placed inside my base

[hollow pasture]

Don't forget long axes!

[hollow pasture]

Maybe @brave canyon could hook you up with his texture keyword magic or however it works?

[brave canyon]

Haha, that is funny cause I got the original example from CO and Maltiez :P

But yeah, it would be totally possible to do something like that

[hollow pasture]

I'm sorry I keep mentioning you about it, but it seems like such an often reoccurring theme that it's worth adding it to the official wiki

And you're the only person who I know has used it besides Maltiez, but you seem to be incredibly active/sociable

[brave canyon]

Hahaha

Well thank you!

And I do think it should be added to the Wiki that would be a good idea...

It does require code though for sure, well. Hmm.

Maybe... Maybe I could rework it as a library actually? Any do a bit more work to make it accessible for any item through Json...

I'm unsure how the player armor renderer works and everything, since I feel like it isn't going to come from the Item itself and probably is on the entity instead. So that might need a bit of working around but yeah.

[hollow pasture]

I'm pretty sure it does? When I was retexturing the armor I was able to just assign the texture to the item in my little modified CO instance to see the items in game

[brave canyon]

Oh huh

I suspect the armor renderer code might be on the Entity, but then certainly grabs the info from the item... But that does make it easier perhaps.

[hollow pasture]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I just lied to you. I was working entirely within the .json of the entity shape, not the item. Whoops

[brave canyon]

Hahaha

okay fair

It's probably still working like I suspected but, hmm.

[hard gale]

OH im open to anything. But with my toddler level coding knowledge, i have no idea what are you two talking about.

Im trying to learn more things, especially with coding but again.. slow progress. Until then i can stick to what works!

Im intrigued to learn about better and especially more optimised ways of how to do things.

[hollow pasture]

Essentially how it works, atleast from my understanding, is that when you craft an item it assigns a tag to your item depending on what you made it with, i.e. "from bone, walnut, oak, etc." and then it uses that tag to choose the texture for that specific shape if I'm understanding correctly

Instead of having it set up like From Golden Combs which has like a million different brood box recipes. Apparently they tried a similar system, but people didn't understand how the crafting recipes worked 😭

[hard gale]

Ah! Isnt this how the class "ItemShield" works? I kinda meddled with that before i decided on what to start modding with.

[brave canyon]

Yeah, I can probably see what I can do later on but, I gotta get a few things done first before that heh

[hard gale]

Oh boy, how i relate to that 😁

[brave canyon]

Hahah of course :P

[storm adder]

So I'm noticing an issue where no matter what, my ranged weapons aren't registering hits on enemies? Doesn't work with crossbows -or- just standard bows.

[hollow pasture]

Do you have xskills installed? If so, try disabling it and testing it in a new survival world so you don't lose your xp

[wooden raptor]

Wow that's nice

[dusky stream]

Does anyone know how I could add CO animations to Swordz weapons

[prisma basin]

I think I'll wear these on my arms. Javelins are relatively short range,so the steady aim penalty doesn't hurt much. And it protects my arms better than gambeson or mail,and plate arm protection would be a little too much penalty on my javelins.

[prisma basin]

Starting to get my gear for the Archives... and this feels nice.

Visored helms are good.

[final garden]

I'm so glad to hear it!

[prisma basin]

Man,maces have one ANNOYING weakness.
They have no reach.

[final garden]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/25742

I had updated my mod to version 1.0.2, which includes visor sounds and functional varieties of vanilla visored helmets. Also fixed a few bugs

@hollow pasture Oh, and please send me those pictures you took! I'd love to see how the helmets looked with the elk and everything

[languid solstice]

me and my friends have been using it a fair deal.

[hazy briar]

steel polehammer : )

[hazy briar]

sick as fuck

[ivory charm]

it truly looks hella great

[tranquil onyx]

They also can't parry from the get-go, which basically eliminates any sympathy I could have towards them 💀

[hollow pasture]

They weren't exactly well planned or anything, but I just personally wanted to see them all

[storm adder]

Yeah so that was the issue, sucks I can't run that mod

[hollow pasture]

Just updating it fixes it most of the time

[storm adder]

xskills is updated, unfortuantely

[hollow pasture]

What version of the game are you running

[storm adder]

Newest stable

[hollow pasture]

Unfortunate. I wish I knew what the continued incompatibility was. Might have to ask the dev of that mod

[fallow surge]

Always ask for logs and compare the versions, or you can waste a ton of time.

[prisma basin]

I can chuck javelins with a shield equipped,eh? Noice.

[final garden]

These look great!

[final garden]

That's awesome! Is that a horse?

[languid solstice]

nyep, from the wild horses mod

[final garden]

Ah, alright

[languid solstice]

[prisma basin]

A single bronze javelin to the face is killing all varieties of deer I encounter,and my Malefactor trait,plus the Light-Footed Xskills skill,are letting me get comically close to do it.
Hunting made easy.

Two javelins to the face for a Giant Deer.

[hallow bolt]

just ask the deer nicely to share their meat c:

[prisma basin]

"Ave! Licetne mihi carnem tuam communicare, cerve magnifica?"
Machine translated.

[prisma basin]

I feel like a hoplite.

[brave canyon]

Hah, that’s awesome

[hazy briar]

Looks sick but I like my usuall hopilite look (couldn't access the server currently so had to use creative)

[prisma basin]

Guess I'm an officer.

My melee sidearm is a mace.

[prisma basin]

I might need new javelins before I hit the Archives...

[hazy briar]

roman cavalry always out here aura farming smh

[prisma basin]

I am farming Giant Deer with the objective of riding...

Here's hoping I can fling javelins from deerback without pinging my mount.

Also,the Hell is aura farming? I'm hearing the term a lot lately.

[ivory charm]

Basically if someone is appearing really cool and acting into it

Smth like that

[uneven trench]

aura farming's a tiktok term for showing off without any care for authority essentially

be the cool guy and all despite everyone saying

[dusky stream]

still curious if someone can help provide a guide on how I could try and add CO mechanics to swordz weapons

[prisma basin]

I imagine you can look at the nearest applicable CO weapon's files,study that,and reverse engineer that?

[final garden]

Like I said before, you just need to look at how CO patches the base game's swords and copy that

[crimson bloom]

Whats server performance like with CO with 10+ players?

[ivory charm]

@hard gale
Hell yeah, the Templar armour looks great

[hard gale]

@ivory charm Thanks! The patch as you asked, is in the works. Im almost finished with one, where armors occupy all slots. It will release as a separate mod

[ivory charm]

hell yeah!

im glad you manage this quality with your limited time

like it looks really really good

[hard gale]

Im expecitng to release the patch next week

[hard gale]

Heh... you can always sacrifice something (sleep)

Right now its pretty fun to create.. we will see how long it lasts in me until i slow down

[ivory charm]

I personally am most excited for the Landsknecht armour

[ivory charm]

Ill always be excited for a new release of one of your mods

[hard gale]

After patches, its next on the chopping block, yes

Thank you for the praise!

[ivory charm]

I really gotta get into modding myself

cus a fun fact about the Landsknechts kinda gave me an idea x3

and it should be possible with CO

they used to carry exaggerated groin armour and even funnier, they sometimes used it to store wine.

[ivory charm]

Do you have your own forum yet?

Alr found it x3

[fallow surge]

Would be nice if somebody will go through CO and related mods with https://mods.vintagestory.at/memleakinspector to check for memleaks and performance issues.

[dusky stream]

Would using the compatibility patch files in Not only spears expansion folder be a good blueprint for adding CO compatibility in other weapon mods like Swordz

[muted bane]

So if damage sources can ignore invulnerability frames in 1.21 pre and up, does this mean overhaul lib can remove the metal spike patch?

[fathom mountain]

is there config to change spears back to vanilla?

we have a server up and i play from a potato so it made spears generally useless for me.

[brave canyon]

Yeah, Maltiez has mentioned that the patch that does that has been slated for the chopping block ever since that made it in.

I think he might’ve had a hand in getting it in as well? But that’s mostly my assumption, heh

[fallow surge]

This ingore inv frames for damage source I added personally in vanilla for this purpose, so yes, corresponding patches from the lib will be removed.

[brave canyon]

Haha, I had a feeling!

[hollow pasture]

What about your poor performance made the Spears more difficult to use?

[fathom mountain]

They arc and go 5 feet. Im sorry but even my 10 year old can throw a traditional spear farther. Without arc.

[restive cove]

Is there a way to completely disable the class traits

I wanna do that temporarily until I can go through and make my mod compatible with co

[midnight tartan]

there is a command you can run

or was that just for recipes

i cant remeber now

so there is one but it does not work like i thought

/player [name] allowcharselonce is used to reselect your class

so you can just set it to commoner

which has no traitis

[restive cove]

that's not what I was asking

I was talking about the weapon traits CO adds

I wanna completely disable them because my class mod is currently incompatible with it

I see this in configlib but dunno how to deselect it since it's greyed out

[little turret]

Bows and spears are still causing crashes on our multiplayer server. We have the most updated version of Combat Overhaul, Overhaul Lib, and Armory. We are playing on 1.20.12. Any ideas?

[hollow pasture]

Armory adds javelins designed for throwing, and I believe Spears are balanced this way on purpose, but Spears do tend to travel a pretty usable distance with a pretty crazy arc though

But I believe you can edit how much the gravity affects the Spears in the mod/config files

[fathom mountain]

Ok cool. Was curious if anyone knew the json settings for vanilla arc/gravity

Any damage or throwing animation changes are fine imo

But 2 scrap spears and a copper spear should rip up a wolf. Not take 30 throws lol

[hard gale]

Compatibility patch for Forgotten armory is out!

I expect a lot of tweaking in the future. Also i kinda rushed it to get the feedback ASAP, but i hope it at least kinda works .

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/26148

[glossy oracle]

hey maltiez not sure if you know it but there is a vigor mod now

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/26142 came out 2 h ago

its ofc 1.20.12 cause I believe most dont think 1.21 is to interesting considering the fact it barely adds anything gameplay wise, compared to all the mods for 1.20.12

[simple comet]

It's likely more that 1.21 is still on what, -pre.2? I expect the vast majority of people wait at least until release candidates or even the first stable version.

[glossy oracle]

Jup but that will take how long 4 6 weeks?

[simple comet]

Typically, which is why people tend to just wait the short time instead.

[hollow pasture]

I don't know if scrap spears are properly balanced into combat Overhaul's damage AFAIK. Copper spear does only do marginally more damage than a flint one to wildlife because they have no piercing resistance

[hollow pasture]

@final garden did I actually send you all of the screenshots I took on elkback or am I imagining things?

[final garden]

You did, thank you!

[hollow pasture]

Alrighty, thanks again!

[long jay]

Hate to be a pain, but is there a particular reason why arrows deal slashing damage instead of piercing damage? Usually arrows (in real life and in media) pierce into the archery targets or enemies, instead of swiping through them.

[ivory charm]

well, arrow types

the standard arrows are barbed

itd be fair to argue they deal both pierce and slash, but thats a game limitation I think

if you install "more arrows" you get bodkin, which deal piercing

[long jay]

Oh? I didn’t know there were multiple types of arrows

[ivory charm]

well irl, in VS you get 3 types if you use more arrows

also made by Maltiez

[ivory charm]

the first 3 should be bodkin, the last 3 should be barbed

[hollow pasture]

It's a balancing choice to nerf bows since they fire quickly, but is essentially made negligible with higher tier arrows. Crossbows are meant to fill the piercing damage gap, but you can always use the mod that maltiez himself has made for more arrows

[ivory charm]

I forgot what the ones in the middle were called

[hollow pasture]

I've heard a few English folks that have done significant testing on arrows vs. plate armor call them "plate cutters" but I think they acknowledged that's just a colloquialism

[ivory charm]

thats not their name

hell I heard it today lol

[hollow pasture]

Everywhere I'm looking I'm seeing the term "Tudor Bodkin" thrown around

[ivory charm]

fun

yeah I cant find a name x3

[fathom mountain]

Hunter class crashes game clients

https://tenor.com/view/x3-gif-24301743

[hollow pasture]

Can you send crash logs?

[fathom mountain]

"Claustrophobia" not found

Im not at home. That was the main part in the log.

[sage sedge]

lol

He was cured

And dont sacre anymore

And game dont like it

[fathom mountain]

Will look into older versions to see if any of them work

[sage sedge]

On what version are you btw

[fathom mountain]

Creeperhost is running 1
20.xx I think 01

Current mod version is newest. Also modDB page has many similar crash cases. And others.

[hollow pasture]

I think the latest version is meant for the pre-release version of VS

[sage sedge]

you need min 20.7

or 21.xx

[hollow pasture]

Downgrade your overhaul library version to what it says your version is compatible with

It's all on the mod page

[fathom mountain]

The library is fine lol its the combat overhaul mod itself sending the exception to the client.

I can still attempt changing the overhaul library as it is an opportunity to chase a fix.

Its gonna be a tomorrow morning before I get to that however! Just farting around at work. Slow slow slow.

[hollow pasture]

It could definitely be it trying to pull from a dependency that isn't correct though, so it's worth a shot

[fathom mountain]

Little update to this helpful community. It was a dogshit server that was overpriced... shopped around and got 333% MOAR ram

[languid solstice]

oh?

[fathom mountain]

Yep. Overhaul didn't cause it. I spent about 1 hour chasing my tail

Used admincommands to teleport out and start forcing a ton of new chunks and got a out of ram crash from the server.

Similar to what I was seeing earlier in the day and blamed on: expanded foods, combat overhaul, flora and fauna of the stone age.

Which in some of their right did increase memory usage significantly.

However I said screw it and just got a bigger server. So far 4 hours no resets.

[languid solstice]

Fair enoughs! glad you got it sorted out.

[hollow pasture]

I would say that expanded foods and FOTSA are definitely the biggest consumers there

[ivory charm]

tenth architect's mods are great, but they do eat your ram x3

[stark summit]

hey there, some folks on a server I mod have been having this issue where the combat overhaul menu for armour doesn't show up when they open their character page. (View attached image)

does anybody know what to do about this? Is it potentially a config issue?

[stark summit]

personally I find Wildcraft Revival and Primitive Survival to be my main culprits. I mean, they do add a ton, but still

[final garden]

Primitive Survival isn't that big, though. Wildcraft is huge

[stark summit]

Just the two I notice cause issues for clients on my server sometimes. Usually we can keep PS on, but Wildcraft has got to stay off for that one lol

[final garden]

Yeah, wildcraft is so much fun, but it's already massive and only getting bigger

[stark summit]

do you know what century these are from?

-# I'm a medieval weapons nerd, don't mind me.

[ivory charm]

Primitive survival is big.

[stark summit]

she primitive on my survival

[ivory charm]

no

just no

[final garden]

Is it? I suppose it adds a fair bit of food related stuff

[ivory charm]

its also not super clean

to be fair its a big mod, it happens

but yeah that leads to big mod

[final garden]

Makes sense

[hollow pasture]

Give them the link to the version of the mod you're using and have them manually install it with the one-click install

[hollow pasture]

Probably varies wildly. They're modern reproductions

[stark summit]

Sounds good! Will try that

[final garden]

I think I don't realize how big it is because I mostly just encounter the worms, snakes and crabs

[ivory charm]

like I said, quite a bit comes from it not being a super clean mod, but I think thats largely a problem of how old it actually is

[tired crescent]

Is there a way to increase combat proficiencies?

It might be nice to have training dummys or something to make drawing a bow faster or swinging a sword hit harder

[ivory charm]

well there is no true way to train, but there is class buffs, both vanilla and i.e. the working classes mod has compat with CO to give buffs to certain aspects in relation to CO mechanics

the Squire from the working classes mod for example gets a lot of buffs toward swing speed of polearms and I think it was longswords

[hollow pasture]

Xskills is compatible with CO with some version combinations. Compatibility is really spotty though and most oftentimes results in projectiles fired from weapons not damaging targets they hit

But xskills perks do increase attack speed, damage, etc.

[fallow surge]

This issue with projectiles need proper debugging, first being able to reliably reproduce. If some one can figure out how to reproduce it reliable, I will fix it.

[dusky stream]

Okay can someone provide some kind of guide on how to give modded weapons CO animations and stats, I tried using Not only spear Expansion as a reference but I couldn't figure it out

Im very new to modifying anything in VS

[shut thunder]

are there any problems with installing this midgame?

its working for me on 1.20.12 ina new world i just dont wanna mess anything up w my existing one

[final latch]

There shouldn't be, but make a backup of your world just copy and paste it somewhere safe

[fallow surge]

I explained it here several times, you can try looking for it

[final latch]

You're back to VintageStory btw? Saw an update on the ModDB

[fallow surge]

may be

[dusky stream]

I might just be too stupid for this

Looking at this rn from spear expansion as an example and im just scratching my head

[dusky stream]

So I gather I user this part to determine what CO animation the modded weapon uses:
},
"HandleHitSound": "game:sounds/thud",
"AttackDirectionsType": "Square",
"AttackAnimation": {
"Top": ["armory:halberd-slash-2h-top"],
"Left": ["armory:halberd-slash-2h-left"],
"Right": ["armory:halberd-slash-2h-right"],
"Bottom": ["armory:halberd-thrust-2h-bottom"]
},
"ReadyAnimation": "armory:halberd-ready-2h",
"IdleAnimation": "armory:halberd-idle-1h",
"AttackTpAnimation": "spearhit"
}
}
}
]

[fallow surge]

You will figure it out, or someone else will help.

Try experimenting

[dusky stream]

How do I even make the jsons apply to Swordz

[fallow surge]

https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/351624415039193098

[fallow surge]

Fuck! It seems pre.2 broke my animations, at least a part of them

At least not in minor patch like with 1.20.10

Or not...

[cloud axle]

Multiplayer server i'm in seems to be running into an issue with CO causing games to crash when using bows, even vanilla ones

[hollow pasture]

Lots of people have been reporting this recently. Can you send your logs, game version, and mod(s) versions?

[fallow surge]

logs contain game version and mods versions

Probably missmatched game/mods versions

[cloud axle]

I’ll see if I can get’em

As far as I know everyone has the most recent game version at least

[maiden badge]

Didn't see a dedicated thread here for CO: Armory, so asking in here. There are textures defined in the Armory mod for all the armors. However, they appear to be identical to the ones already created in the base Combat Overhaul mod. Moreover, it doesn't seem to me like the new partial armor itemtypes are even using these textures. Am I missing something? Is there some reason the mod needs those textures present, that I haven't been able to figure out?

[fallow surge]

Not sure, textures might not be actually identical

[shut thunder]

are pauldrons plate or brigandine?

[maiden badge]

That's plate

[prisma basin]

Brigandine shoulder armour is called rerebraces.

[cloud axle]

Are there any known reasons why all items effected by combat overhaul would suddenly stop having animations or deal damage?

[prisma basin]

I recall a couple days ago,Malt griping that an update broke animations.

[fallow surge]

nope, it didnt, config lib 1.6.0 did, when I tried to delay json patching, but I removed this release

[fallow surge]

You updated mod to wrong versions of the game, probably downloaded 1.21 for 1.20

[cloud axle]

Hmmm I’ll let my server host know

[civic patio]

Should the latest version of CO be working with 1.20.12?

[ivory charm]

Yes.

[fallow surge]

version for 1.21 you mean? Not, use one for 1.20

[ivory charm]

Well CO itself only got a 1.20.7 version, overhaul lib got a 1.21-pre version

[fallow surge]

I need to add disclaimer that I dont update mods when they dont need an update, I become tired from this stuff...

[ivory charm]

I'm quite aware, I was simply pointing out that there's no 1.21 specific version for CO

[fallow surge]

Oh, yeah, only the lib got the update

[civic patio]

Thanks @fallow surge and sorry for the confusion.

[junior crest]

this is probably been asked many times, is it possible for this mod to be used on servers?

[final garden]

Yes

[fallow surge]

I'm not aware of any mods on moddb that cant be used on servers

[arctic pewter]

Is it normal for the shield to not protect the player from attacks from other players or arrows?

[final garden]

I imagine combat overhaul hat to write entirely new script for the shields due to the hitboxes and everything, right?

[fallow surge]

It isnt

What does damage log says on receiving side?

[fallow surge]

Is it on 1.20.12?

[arctic pewter]

Yes

This video was recorded at a LAN game

[fallow surge]

Try shooting in the back of the target while they block

I wonder, is it about arrow going on the other side of the player, before mod tries to determine where it hit from, or just the math is wrong and I need to flip it

I will use previous projectile position instead of current, but it will be in 1.21, it is a pain to setup it back to compile for 1.20

[arctic pewter]

lol

[ivory charm]

that is kind of a funny bug

[brave canyon]

Hahah, wonderful. These bugs are funny.

[marsh iron]

"Turn the other Cheek."

He didn't say which cheek

[junior crest]

sweet ty big mans, epic mod aswell

[vital gulch]

Idk if reported already but there is an issue with loading crafting recipies in handbook and certain armours loosing its icons/inventory textures. Otherwise they look fine when worn (1.21.pre-2)

[fallow surge]

Can you please test it in pre.3?

[short marlin]

Hey there is a addons for this mod that adds new weapons problem being that the weapons somehow dont act like swords rather than just regular items

@fallow surge

and pretty sure im not supposed to hold this like this

these are the errors i got when trying to launch a world

[fallow surge]

missmatched versions

[short marlin]

but i downloaded the versions that said theyre for 1.21

[short marlin]

is there maybe something i can do to make it work for 1.21?

[short marlin]

nvm i saw im on 1.20.12

is it also possible to get an earlier version of ur gun mod? @fallow surge

[brave canyon]

Go to the Files tab at the top of the page

That’s where all uploaded versions are stored, just make sure you check the version before downloading it

[short marlin]

omg thanks i dont know how i missed that sorry mb xD

very new to modding vintage story

[short marlin]

is it also possible to make stuff for earlier versions work with never versions? because the versions are for 20.7 while i have 20.12

[brave canyon]

Oh, Malt said he didn’t go through and mark each and every version (cause it’s a lot of clicking)

So that 20.7 one should work for 20.12

But if you move to v21, you need the v21 version

[short marlin]

okio

ill just installed all the versions that said 20.7 to see if that works

[brave canyon]

Yeah that should work

[short marlin]

weapons still dont work and the muskets and guns dont show up in the menu

still get these errors

[brave canyon]

Can you post the whole log and not just a snippet of it?

[short marlin]

okio

[brave canyon]

Try going into the Mod Manager ingame, at the bottom click on the Show Mods Folder button

Can you snap a pic of the mod versions you have?

Just so I can compare them

But then go up a folder to VintageStoryData

And you should see a Cache folder near the top there

Just delete that to be safe as well

[short marlin]

this is everything in the mod folder

[brave canyon]

Yeah, you got the right mod versions, so it might be the Cache folder.

[short marlin]

those are the newest i could get that exist before the pre 1.21 versions

[short marlin]

ok ill see and see if it works now

ok now im getting no errors

[brave canyon]

Sometimes the game can leave leftover or broken data in the cache folder and it needs deleting to clear it up

It happens if you jump between versions very quickly, or simply rarely when you update

I'm guessing it might've just kept the v21 versions of the mod in there and that's what was going wrong

But glad it worked out!

[short marlin]

yea everything seems to be working now thanks alot for the help ^^

[short marlin]

btw do you have any mods you can recommend me maybe? x3

[brave canyon]

Hahah well

-# I can totally rep my own mod, Toolsmith :P

Also Smithing Plus to go with that, because it's incredible on it's own. Jayu's recently updated it proper as well which is great to see.

[short marlin]

ah nice

[brave canyon]

The RC versions worked fine but people were sometimes worried about using them because they weren't 'full' releases haha.

[short marlin]

what ur mod do exactly?

[brave canyon]

It's uh, complicated, but I could explain it better in the Toolsmith thread? I don't wanna bog down Malt's thread here with it if I can help it :P

[short marlin]

fair fair

[hollow pasture]

What mod?

[hollow pasture]

Ah, sorry you guys got this resolved

Sorry to ping you!

[short marlin]

already solved le problem ^

[hollow venture]

all bows are invisible using combat overhaul on 1.20.12, not sure why this is happening. this also happens when its just the mod + lib so its not a conflict issue

[brave canyon]

Are you using the most up to date versions for 20.12?

[hollow venture]

I believe so

[brave canyon]

CO should be 0.3.9

And overhaulLib should be 0.2.10

[hollow venture]

they are

ive tried resetting the config as well, which didnt help

[brave canyon]

Try clearing the mod cache then, especially if you updated from an older version

[hollow venture]

is that "VintagestoryData\Cache\unpack"?

or is it "VintagestoryData\ModData"

[brave canyon]

Yeah, just delete that folder- the first one.

[hollow venture]

okay ty I'll try that

it did not work

[brave canyon]

That's odd. It shouldn't be a mod problem but something with your own version, cause this doesn't happen for me.

Maybe try redownloading and replacing them with a fresh download? Dunno. What do your client logs say, can you send those?

[hollow venture]

should i try reinstalling the game ? I have it installed on a separate drive from my OS idk if that would do anything

[hollow venture]

where do I find the logs ?