Combat Overhaul

[faint plover]

what are the armor values?
raw damage negation?

[sand anvil]

so basically anything below those protection levels will have a high damage reduction applied to it, anything above it will have a normal damage reduction applied to it

not sure on how much the damage reduction is

i'd have to check the files to see if i can find it

but with CO theres not really any raw damage negation anymore, its just damage reduction im pretty sure

[faint plover]

yeah, ok, ig the formula must be somewhat complex bc I don't see how these numbers are used in a reduction other than just flat negation lol

but i take ur word for it

[sand anvil]

The protection level of 2 for blunt doesnt mean blunt damage is reduced by 2

[faint plover]

what about blunt damage though? does every ennemy deal a bit of blunt in their attacks or is it specifically some attacks that deal blunt?

[sand anvil]

certain drifters have blunt damage as they punch you, pretty sure the first two tiers of drifter punch you and then they start getting swords and spikes which turns it into piercing/slashing, having rocks thrown at you aswell

cant think of any other sources of blunt

[upper ermine]

Fwiw my friend doesn’t wear armor since they dislike combat but they do play as tailors or cooks so they get some wobble I think? Or some penalty. Either way what’s the setting the admin needs to change? I’d like to keep them happy while still keeping the great sword badassery intact for the rest of us.

Also what exactly does the wasd movement setting change? The one that changes how you swing depending on your movement? My friend wanted it to be “like in Morrowind” but he’s kinda vague aside from saying that when he changed it in his menu it didn’t change it the way he wanted and he doesn’t notice a difference. Does that need to be changed server side too?

[mint python]

Anyone have combat overhaul Armory break after the new update?

[fallow surge]

...

What complex formula, I just gave you The formula a few posts back!

Damage reduction calculation is much, much simpler than in vanilla

[fallow surge]

You have to reenter the world to apply setting, as it is written in gui window

[mint python]

Is there another place to talk about the Armory mod or would it just get lumped in here?

[fallow surge]

just lump it all here

[mint python]

Okay - well, my friend updated our server to 1.20.8, and everything regarding armory/combat overhaul is just like, not registering on the new version. Is that just because of the fact that one/more of the mods aren't updated to the new version yet, or is it something else?

I don't see anyone else having the issue currently

[fallow surge]

just regular installation issues

[mint python]

wait - did Combat Overhaul just recently get a new dependency?

I believe we were using a version from before OverhaulLib was a thing

so when he updated it...

[fallow surge]

recently is a relative term

[mint python]

says it was created Apr 5th

I'm guessing it initially released then?

[mighty sun]

I read alot hate, and i straight up dont get it, The mod the mechanisms the animations, all fantastic. Love this mod, No combat overhaul? why live? Great stuff.

[final garden]

I actually love how armour that covers your head and arms increases ranged weapon unsteadiness. Means I wear full heavy plate, but when I make armour for my brother, who mostly uses bows, I skip smithing the arms and make him an open helmet instead of plate, so he just wears the cuirass, boots and leggings

[mighty sun]

Esaxtly, same. What a wonderful mechenism

[faint plover]

This also has the added benefit of being able to customise your armor drip

[tawdry condor]

@fallow surge ah, was meant to ask, did you swap around trait dependancy for longbow and recurve bow? Cuz IIRC it used to be that you can craft a longbow w\o a trait but needed it to make a recurve bow, but now it's the other way around (crossbow part still requires a trait)

[fallow surge]

I haven't changed it from vanilla

[tawdry condor]

hmm, wiki says that recurve is hunter exclusive

[fallow surge]

it is

no need to ping me btw, such questions can answer other ppl here

[tawdry condor]

might be something from Remnants then, but the trait from their class shouldn't be changed from vanilla

[tawdry condor]

sorry ._.

[fallow surge]

np

[civic eagle]

What needs to be done to remove the sway and must it be done server-side? I'm playing with someone who really doesn't like it

[fallow surge]

look into config

[civic eagle]

I'm too stupid to know what that means. Is there a file? I'd imagine you cant just fix that client side right?

[small tapir]

you can

[small tapir]

if you have configlib (you should) it’s i think P by default? and then just go to combat overhaul and swap the aiming style to either fixed or vanilla

[faint plover]

Yee I saw
Turns out it was just a few posts above our conversation 😂

Thx tho

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, tailor has the shaky hands debuff for whatever reason even though it doesn't make much sense (tailors need stable hands for delicate stitching after all!), but the debuff is no worse than wearing a full plate helmet with no other debuffs

[hollow pasture]

The WASD movement change affects weapons that can attack from 4 different directions. Moving forward would switch you to an overhead attack, backwards into a thrust/underhand, and left or right side swings

[upper ermine]

But switching to vanilla aiming will fix that for her completely?

[upper ermine]

I'm tempted to load up morrowind just so I can see what my other friend is on about wrt it being different

[fallow surge]

just try them all

[final garden]

I've been tempted to load up Morrowind regardless

[hollow pasture]

Vanilla aiming is really poor in my opinion, but I don't think the debuff can apply if you use the vanilla system

[fallow surge]

You can reduce sway in setting, setting called aiming difficutly, it is server side setting

[hollow pasture]

Morrowind has Skyrim style attack animations where repeatedly attacking just changes the attack angle. Falxes, clubs, maces, arming swords, and Sabres all work this way

[upper ermine]

Oh the oblivion remake is out

[final garden]

I see that now, but I haven't $70 to spend

[upper ermine]

Is there any downside to this at all aside from easy modo for that one friend? (I already play a ranged class with bare arms and no face covering)

[upper ermine]

LOL my friend says it works now (the morrowind style swinging) but I am sure this is not the first time he's reconnected to the server since altering his settings, so I'm pretty sure he's just delusional. thanks.

[final garden]

Pretty sure it'll turn off any CO weapon sway, not just for your friend, since it's server-side

[fallow surge]

aiming difficulty is balancing thing so it is server side, aiming style is client side though

[hollow pasture]

Is your friend newer to gaming or is there some other reason why the aiming penalty is causing so much distress?

[small tapir]

could just rename it weak arms (used to holding the tiny tailoring equipment not the large heavy weaponry)

[fallow surge]

trembling aim describes is well enough

[tawdry condor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stewert-rage-pissed-off-angry-gif-189652034235049225

outsourced
UE5 graphics slapped onto create engine
70$

I hate modern gaming

[upper ermine]

They just dislike combat in general

Meanwhile I'm like this: https://youtu.be/7AxfPrfPb5w?t=4

[hollow pasture]

Well, respectfully of course, then what are they doing with a bow? 😭

[upper ermine]

I guess they prefer the utility for chasing off mobs when they intrude

[hollow pasture]

Oh, then give them a whackus bonkus to keep silly drifters away?

[small tapir]

can i suggest giving them a sling

[upper ermine]

My other friend, the one that struggled to get wasd swinging working, is now offering for the umpteenth time to mine for more materials but is (as always) refusing to use the propick or consult the tremendous amount of propick data I'm sharing, insisting that they will only do anything at all if I give them precise coordinates to the exact material we need, and it has to be exactly one material.

I am no longer requesting assistance for his problems, all I want from you is to wish as hard as you can for him to suffer some minor misfortune.

[soft skiff]

lol

[quartz orbit]

Is there a way to disable the lack of iframes?

I heard this mod gets rid of them so shotguns work

but the result is thorny bushes and trees oblierate people in multiplayer

[fallow surge]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/22768

problems with i-frames will be resolved in 1.21

[upper ermine]

That sounds absolutely hilarious

[brave canyon]

It's suffering but a tiny bit amusing, a lot more funny if you go in knowing about it, hah

I just turned off the damage from bushes instead :P

But it would hit you, the knockback would suck you INTO the bush, and then it instantly and rapidly compounds and often would launch you back out so high you take fall damage as well

[small tapir]

what would be the number be for the spears_thrown_distance line in the config for them to match javelins in range?

kinda would want them to feel similar in throwing just so i dont have to relearn the throw arc for the two of them

[quartz orbit]

how do you do that?

[brave canyon]

Oh, it's in the Herbarium Config if you are using Wildcraft.

[hollow pasture]

Wow, my short little 2 minute video is at 2k views in just a little over 2 days. That's unheard of for me

[analog belfry]

My pickaxe and axe have regard vanilla animations? Can anyone help?

[fallow surge]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/toolsanimations

[analog belfry]

I just did the research and yes I fixed it I thought it was under the combat overhaul but it is a separate mod! Was it always this way?

Maybe I forget to add this one to this LP

[analog belfry]

Awesome ok that makes sense!

Thank you for your timely response and keep it up! You make some of the best mods for vs

I hope some get fully implemented into the game

[upper ermine]

Is there a way to search specifically within this subchannel? or thread? or whatever this is?

[hollow pasture]

Unless you search for messages from a specific user that uses this channel more than others, then you're unlikely to find anything productive

[vivid flame]

I think this belongs here, but it might belong in Overhaul Lib since I see some references to that library as well
I got this error which caused me to get booted from the server when firing the blunderbuss (matchlock) from maltiez firearms at an enemy. I am using firearms 0.14.2, combat overhaul 0.3.9, overhaul lib 0.2.8, and xskills (unsure if this matters but I saw it referenced in the error) 0.8.17.

[brave canyon]

Probably sounds like you should try reinstalling everything

Clear the mod cache, make sure everything's updated, redownload it all even if it is just incase

Same for the server side of things

Since you mentioned you got 'booted' I assume from a server. -- Oh wait you said that too I'm tired sorry :P

[neat knoll]

does the malefactor class get proficiency with longaxes?

only "battleaxe" i see is the ruined one

[gloomy seal]

Sabre bug: the sabre recipe does not work with dyed leathers, when you go to the recipe page all recipes show it makes a standard leather handled sabre. When you go to craft the colored sabre (IE: yellow handled) with dyed leather it doesn't produce anything.

[hollow pasture]

Yes

[small tapir]

is there a way to make temporal gears not immediately go to my offhand?

ive got a mod that makes drifterloot autodrop as items and using a 2h weapon is kinda annoying with that

[fallow surge]

Interesting problem, but I think someone just better make a mod to specifically address this issue

[small tapir]

i mean another solution could be making an item that does nothing be able to exist in the offhand and not break 2h weapons

but yea, i'll keep an eye out if something like that pops up

[small tapir]

opening handbook crashed the game, says something about a registercallback while game paused

i think the solution is just "dont open the handbook right after loading in" but am wondering if theres anything else other than that

[pseudo elbow]

Any plans to add new armors?

Also what mods work well with this

[acoustic tartan]

I've seen this happen when I pause the game and edit a config triggering a filesystemwatcher in c#.

[small tapir]

does anyone know how the blackard armour debuff trait interacts with the +move speed and +manip of the betterscrap armour?

[hollow pasture]

The should just be able to multiply each penalty by the %reduction Blackguard has and then subtract that from all the debuffs

[small tapir]

its postives

is why i ask

like in my head it'd make sense if blackard got 30% manip instead of 20% because the point is "better at wearing armour" but also like

[nocturne shore]

least op armor /s

[small tapir]

like 10 jonas parts + like 20 cupronickel ingots

🤷‍♀️

[nocturne shore]

you could jump into creative mode world for 2min

[small tapir]

this is true

[nocturne shore]

and open [C] menu

and check if speed is consistent

[small tapir]

i figured i'd ask because its like 15s for someone to respond "oh yea it works like that" and like 2m of me loading into and testing in creative

i dont see manipulation speed in the menu here

unless its there and im just extraordinarily blind

although guessing off the fact my walkspeed didnt go up when i went to blackard it doesnt work like i'd expect

[uneven trench]

which mods gives you stats

[small tapir]

i got no clue tbh

if i had to guess its either whatever gives me timers on pitkilns/crops/etc or CAN jewelry because that has bonuses in blue text too

[faint plover]

what is manipulation speed actually?

like attack speed?

[small tapir]

attackspeed

[faint plover]

oh yeah ok

[small tapir]

and reload for gun/crossbow

[faint plover]

does it affect things such as digging with a shovel?

or mining with a pick

or chopping etc

[small tapir]

i dont know

i've never paid that much attention

[hollow pasture]

It affects the animation speed, but I've yet to test whether that actually slows you or not

[next pond]

is there a config to disable the trait part of the mod? it is causing issue with the classes i use and i don't feel the need of the combat's traits?

[uneven trench]

yeah

[next pond]

and where it is

[nocturne shore]

MOdify vanillia classes

[next pond]

i did not make clear that the classes i use are from a mod, my bad

[hollow pasture]

You should still be able to turn that off to disable CO modification

[next pond]

tried and didn't work

[hollow pasture]

Ahh, not sure then. I personally play without config lib and just do everything as is

[sterile notch]

I added my crash report on the mod db, but anyone encounter a crash when trying to make steel chain leggings in the n shape?

Not sure if there is anything else I can so, once I out the 5th piece in the crafting area it crashes

[fallow surge]

reports and comments on moddb are most likely to be ignored, also dont spam comments with huge logs, I will delete all such comments cuase they make comments section even less readable

[sterile notch]

Understandable, where would you want us to report issues or crash reports? Don’t see a report section on the db, if you would want it

[fallow surge]

here

[sterile notch]

You got it, will send it in a min, thanks 🙂

wow, so weird, but I can't reproduce
it anymore, I was able to make the chain leg armor, sorry for bugging you! I will know for future though where to post bugs! Have a good one!

[rustic tundra]

What determines how if a projetile will pass through a creature, and if you can change it through a patch for said creature?

[fallow surge]

penetration resistance is compared against projectile damage tier

[rustic tundra]

Thank you I got it work

[rustic tundra]

Is possible to have the projectile multi hit a single mob, I was thinking something like this where it hits the torso, and then a vital organ

[fallow surge]

projectile always hits the collider with maximum damage multiplier on its path

so it will hit the vital organ

[rustic tundra]

I guess that can work, though I was thinking something like a crude bow wouldn't pen that far, vs a crossbow or gun

[fallow surge]

There is the code

If your body collider penetration resistance is higher than projectile damage tier, it wont go through to hit stuff inside

test it out

[rustic tundra]

Nice, this is great

Thanks, dino hunting just got a bit more technical

[fallow surge]

dont forget to write a guide how to hunt them

[rustic tundra]

Guide in question

[upper ermine]

Is there a reason why I can get pretty close to a mob and aim down the sights and somehow miss despite the aim being rock steady and pointing straight at the center of the head on my screen? Is there notable spread that makes shots not necessarily go where the iron sights indicate? There have been a few cases where I just fire at the head repeatedly and… nothing? No ping or anything.

Fwiw it’s with dinosaurs and Stone Age mod creatures.

Basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wex1Bn2Xodk

[upper ermine]

This is a fantastic idea

[brave canyon]

That is so damn cool! I love the idea.

[sand anvil]

quick we must volleyfire the tyrannosaurus

[austere phoenix]

Is there a way to lengthen the parry window time on weapons? Like a json file?

[fallow surge]

there is no easy way of doing it, you have to edit animations

[fathom crypt]

Haii would it be possible to add throwing functionality to knives?

To add an easy early game weapon you pretty much always have on you

[thin wing]

Throwing a... flint knife?

Realistically speaking that would be pretty terrible, they're not well-balanced for that
None of the knives ingame are, even the metal ones.

[keen veldt]

throwing an object is better than no object

[thin wing]

Throw a rock, it'll work better

The flint knife is very oddly shaped and probably not very sharp, the metal knives all have too small a blade and too large a handle, none are good throwing knives

(Tbh i think the metal knives ingame look like steak knives rather than anything like a rugged survival knife but myeh)

[keen veldt]

need some apache stars

[fresh crypt]

So I wanted to test it before actually comitting in my actual world: how the hell does one make plate armor? Even when finished, the pieces don't turn into their finished parts and just stay there, useless.

I figured it out, there's a bug with the placement of voxels

No matter what you do, this specific voxel will always void itself

You can put as many ingots as you want, the moment the recipe is "finished", this voxel resets to empty, making the armor piece impossible to complete

[keen veldt]

the voxel in question

[fallow surge]

Have nothing to do with CO, report it as vanilla bug or a modded bug if you are using mods that affect smithing.

[fresh crypt]

I am not using mods that affect smithing, and this is the only recipe that bugs out

[keen veldt]

can confirm i could smith this in my co op world with the latest CO

[fresh crypt]

What in the actual fuck, now it works?

I redid the exact same thing and it worked

What manner of universal magic is this

Sorry I suppose this isn't a bug with CO then

I am absolute befuddled

[hollow pasture]

Sometimes the game can bug out and you'll be missing a voxel on the inside. I give my cuirasses all a healthy handful of heavy hits before I remove any excess material

[fresh crypt]

I had to "move" the empty voxel to the edge of the cuirass and then when I filled it with a new ingot, the recipe completed

[hollow pasture]

Ahhh, it was on the bottom? Not even sure how you did that

[fresh crypt]

Me neither lmfao

You can understand my confusion

[hollow pasture]

I had something similar happen, but it was on the inside of the cuirass. I spent a good 20 minutes wondering why my perfectly forged cuirass didn't work

No green or blue voxels on the outside

[gleaming citrus]

I'm not sure if suggestions are welcome but what if there was a new type of weapon, the Messer. Higher damage lower swing speed longsword?

Also maybe I'm just dogshit but I cannot seem to find any use for the shortest weapons in this mod. Anything shorter than the 1h steel arming sword or forlorn estoc is just trading hits with enemies. Is it just me having a skill issue or is this felt by anyone else?

[upper ermine]

Maybe you’re intended to party and then swing?

[hollow pasture]

All I can tell you is to back up a little more? You can pair them with a shield if you must facehug, or try the Combat Overhaul reanimated mod (it makes better use of the length of the weapons)

[hollow pasture]

So a Sabre that gets bonus damage with a lower tier, but able to be used in 1 hand or 2?

[fallow surge]

makes better use of the length of the weapons
Does it?
I already tried to give weapons animations maximum reach

[hollow pasture]

To me it looks as though it leads more with the tip of the weapons, rather than broad swings, which is a technique similar to what HEMA does to maximize reach, but this is based on nothing other than my own vision

[nocturne shore]

problem inst weapon but enemy design
bowtorns are really annoying in meele combat cuz they turn instantly & attack in 0.2s.

Was body part hitrate changed?
My forlorn armor chestplate lost half its durability while leggins are still over 95%

I always use them both at the same time [unlike helmet which i never unequip]

[tribal latch]

Very much an issue on servers

Mace especially

Had to swing and sprint in

[gleaming citrus]

yeah but the sabre looks ugly as hell

so if I had a messer which doesn't look ugly that would be great

I guess the iron version would be a falchion and then the steel one would be one of those nice looking german ones

but anyway the mod author could read my message and wipe his ass with my suggestion so I have no idea if this is worth even talking about

[hollow pasture]

It's actually one of my favorite shapes in the mod, even though it doesn't fit the way I fight

[fallow surge]

I actually would prefer you not talking in this channel

[final garden]

Making a mod is tough work, man, and a lot of people have lives outside of this, jobs and obligations that require diverting attention away from a nearly endless stream of people with suggestions and good intentions

[final garden]

Honestly, I would suggest you be the change you want to see. Want to have a messer? Then make a mod for it. Figure it out and do the work. Suggestions are fine and dandy, but resources are slim and not every voice gets heard

[modest rampart]

Considering his rudeness and the arrogance of his words I don't think he cares much about learning to mod to make his own stuff

[final garden]

Eh, always better the err on the side of caution. Maybe they're just blunt or not thinking about what they're saying

[rustic tundra]

actual guide in question

[gleaming citrus]

I wasn't trying to be arrogant or rude

[dense jetty]

This has been bothering me too, it got to a point where I just edited the json for all firearms and turn them all into shotguns with spread relative to the barrel length.

[upper ermine]

I wonder if it's some sort of lag issue. Because I have definitely had mystery moments when I'm sure I must have at least HIT the thing but I just... didn't.

[upper ermine]

Does any class have a spear bonus?

[thin wing]

Hunter

[small tapir]

could make specific “throwing knife” items, kinda like the old tinker’s construct weapons or the throwing weapons from calamity in terraria

have them just be stackable items with a break chance, kinda like arrows, but be throwable similar to spears and javelins

although that does kinda ruin the “early game always available weapon” the original suggester was going for

could even go so far as to add variants on it (knifes for faster/shorter range, throwing axes for heavier slower, possibly stars of some sort for spamming)

although that’d require a lot of work to make so i fully expect this to not happen anytime soon if at all

[sinful panther]

Das just bloat

[final garden]

@fallow surge @hollow pasture This one was a pretty big pain, but I think it's not at a bad spot now. It's supposed to be a close helmet, which normally include neck plating with the bevor, but I haven't really done that yet so it's still just the default chainmail neck. Wasn't sure if you wanted me to have a crack at that or not. Either way, love to hear feedback as always!

[hollow pasture]

The ornamentation across it is so fitting for meteoric iron!

[hollow pasture]

It also looks properly "dehumanizing." With the visor down the fella looks properly pissed, but with it up he's quite the charming knight

[final garden]

Hah, it was hard to fit the vibe of the close helm / armet designs when they rely on narrowed angle changes to the face structure, but Seraphs are completely flat faced pugs

[hollow pasture]

Honestly I totally want these helmets as replacements for the base-game plate ones already if someone could teach me how to make a mod that overrides the base shapes 🤣

[final garden]

That's super simple

I think that'd just be a patch mod that changes the shape and texture

[brave canyon]

Oh man, that helmet is downright incredible! Like wow

[final garden]

Thanks!

[brave canyon]

I didn’t expect it to have a visor and then I scrolled down a tiny bit more and pop, there it goes! I was just simply impressed haha.

It blends in almost seamlessly that I didn’t even expect the visor to work :P

It’s so dang good

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, he's made variations of every other metal type besides steel so far. I hope that Maltiez still enjoys the idea of toggle-able visors

[brave canyon]

Oh yeah, it certainly seems it haha. Cause every time he’s asking for the files :P

I am so incredibly excited for it to be added in, hah.

[final garden]

I've yet to do steel, silver or gold. But I have been super excited to do steel for a while and have an idea for what design I want to do

[brave canyon]

Oooh… fancy plume for the steel? Or is that only for the ornamental ones? :P

… Oh man you gave me a dangerous idea. Since I worked out modular shape rendering on attributes for tools and such a good bit… I’d love to be able swap out the plumes or add accessories :P

[hollow pasture]

Are you saying you could do something like add gold leaf to a chest plate to switch textures without adding a whole new itemtype?

Oh wait, that's textures not shape

[brave canyon]

That would absolutely be possible, yeah.

I got textures working as well, but it came from Maltiez’s original code - which he already showed with the handle colors on weapons in Armory

[hollow pasture]

Interesting. I remember asking Maltiez forever ago to add cosmetic slots to the armor slots for visual changes like that, but that sounds waaaay more powerful

And simpler to make

[brave canyon]

I reworked it for Toolsmith to be primarily Attribute-based, and planned out a tree attribute structure to feed it to spit out the combined shapes and textures meshed up

It still has the ability to pre-define bits in the JSON that it treats as more “static” elements that will likely stick around for all iterations of that item.

But I was able to like, take a tool handle and change the texture from debarked wood to the lime green present wrapping color and it was funny :P It worked fine!

[hollow pasture]

Haha

So hypothetically, you could put a plume "socket" onto a plate helmet and then add whatever color of plume you want after?

Using that system

And it still would remain a plate helmet with the same durability, repair recipes, etc?

Oh, that's literally what you said you wanted to do... 🤣

[brave canyon]

You could theoretically add anything to anything, I think with the system, yeah.

Just gotta define it kinda in code is what I expected, but maybe down the line making it possible stuff to read from JSON as well… hmm.

Actually yeah, it would be plausible to define it with JSON, but that does make it more “static” unless it’s reworked a bit more…

Right now I am just hooking into the OnCrafted calls and adding attributes there for the tool/part

Based on what was used

Theoretically probably could allow for defining a material, shape and texture, and where to apply it all along with rotation and translations in JSON and have it separate static elements you want generated for the Creative inventory and possible dynamic additions to make craftable…

[hollow pasture]

Man. I feel like RP servers could benefit so much from CO+Armory

[brave canyon]

Absolutely. It’s such a great damn mod.

I loooove the variety of Armory so much.

[hollow pasture]

Like a leader of a group riding up to a gate to parley on elk-back before a potential PvP event

Raises his visor

And with everything having a tradeoff, you can actually have the historical variation in kit choice rather than just a "meta"

[final garden]

Huh, hadn't heard of that mod before

Toolsmith

[brave canyon]

Oh! Yeah! I’ve been working on it

[final garden]

I used Maltiez' code as a base a while back to have different varieties of equipment as basic texture swaps. I.E. Weapons of different material have different textures and shapes

[brave canyon]

Oh yeah, it was incredibly helpful to have Maltiez send the textures by attribute stuff and a bit of multi-shape handling code that he didn’t fully get working yet

I got it working for the grips and handles though as a proof of concept, so I can extend this into rendering various parts for the tools dynamically

I was absolutely losing it in the rendering pipeline though, guh

[final garden]

Heh, yeah. I've set up lots of modular stuff like that in Unity and Unreal, but Vintage Story seems like it'd be a pain to do that with

[brave canyon]

I was so pleased once it was working :P Luckily it seems kinda super easy to mush meshes together and fit them together, the pain was being unsure if it was loading the textures and shapes and stuff, and what proper path I had to feed it and where...

It was the dumb things catching me up, haha

[final garden]

Hah, that's always development

[brave canyon]

But since I know it was possible from CO and Armory, well, this had to be plausible

[gleaming citrus]

that's badass

[final garden]

Thank you!

[brave canyon]

I can't wait to be able to wear a flippable visor helmet :P

[gleaming citrus]

I just wish getting enough meteoric iron was easier 😩

[hollow pasture]

If you have the colorless map, it's actually not too hard to pattern recognize

In saves where I don't plan on putting in the work for steel armor, I just get enough iron to get an anvil and pickaxe going and then just go out adventuring for meteoric iron. I find a lot of fun ruins that way too

[gleaming citrus]

imagine if you could make steel out of meteoric iron

[small tapir]

im pretty sure you can

but it just makes normal steel

[misty steppe]

Meteoric Steel lol

[uneven trench]

Black Steel

[small tapir]

red and blue steels when surely

[brave canyon]

Oh god

[uneven trench]

how do you make red and blue steels

[brave canyon]

They were something from TFC, and I don't believe they were real things at all, just a fantasy alloy

[small tapir]

yea they were like the ultra endgame (with the "black steel" mentioned being what would be normal steel)

and it does mention liquid steel which required charcoal and a bellows to get hot enough to melt, iirc

[uneven trench]

lmao TFC has a heirarchy of metals, also bismuth bronze for blue steel and brass for red steel

[small tapir]

god i WISH the bibro here looked as good as tfc

[sinful panther]

Paints were real but differently colored steel alloys? Nah

Darkening steel could count, done with acid, helped with preventing rust but it's not stronger nor a different alloy

For a low fantasy progression tho, dope af

[final garden]

I mean, in real life, Black Steel is real, but it's just steel that hasn't been galvanized so it is less protected against acids

[tawdry condor]

welp, that sucks

it's the author of Forlorn and Blackguard additions

[fallow surge]

I guess for them very basic json patches are difficult, but I think for majority of ppl they are easy to do. So just make a mod with compatibility patches.

Also armor is autopatched, so it is already usable

Melee weapons also work, just in vanilla way

Bows wont work though

[slate ermine]

How exactly do the swords in the armory work?

Lmb is a thrust and rmb is a swing?

Shortsword btw

[fallow surge]

Here is how exactly they work: https://github.com/maltiez2/vsmod_Overhaullib/blob/master/source/Implementations/MeleeWeapon.cs

[thin wing]

LMB is just attack and RMB is parry (or block for the few weapons that can block or if you're using a shield)

some shortswords swing and some shortswords thrust, it's based on the shortsword itself

they do slashing damage either way

[slate ermine]

God damm lol

Also are longer weapons only exclusive to higher tier of ores

[fallow surge]

Spear can me made from stone

[thin wing]

some weapons are, but it's not just "longer" weapons

like a longsword needs at least bronze and a greatsword needs at least iron, but a long axe can be made from bronze and is about as long as a greatsword, and spears can be made from stone

it's more accurate to say more sophisticated weapons generally need better materials

the longest weapon is the pike and IIRC you can make that at copper

[hollow pasture]

Steel was also darkened by heating an oil treated surface historically

[slate ermine]

Im kinda new to smithing so if i wanna make a light shield and well one ingot isnt enough do i have to like throw a second one in there

[hollow pasture]

Yep. Make sure both the work item and additional ingot are hot before you add the ingot to the material. For things like armor it's oftentimes easier to simply forge a plate and then add that to a work item

[slate ermine]

Man i'll need hella ingots lol

[hollow pasture]

1 piece of coal will heat up 4 ingots to 900 C at a time, so it's better to forge en-mass

[hollow pasture]

Still less than vanilla. It takes something crazy like 80 ingots for a full plate harness

In vanilla that is

[slate ermine]

How many ingots would you say for armory

Also is copper armor even worth it

[hollow pasture]

for a full set?

[slate ermine]

Yeap

[hollow pasture]

I wouldn't say so. If you need armor to help survive on the surface, then I'd recommend leather or lamellar because they're much cheaper than the other counterparts

Bronze plate+Gambeson is enough for the first story location

[slate ermine]

I wanted to go caving

[hollow pasture]

As long as you're not fighting nightmare or corrupted enemies, I think you can get away with lamellar if you play smart

Copper lamellar should protect decent enough against surface/deep drifters, and maybe wolves

[slate ermine]

Im on a handheld so its gonna be probably hard

And umm

Theres a bear eating everything

So im on a food crisis

[hollow pasture]

You can always try your best to cheese the bear by throwing spears in some way

[slate ermine]

A warrior doesnt cheese!!

Throwing myself in water to kill wolves is called strategical planning

[hollow pasture]

Tbf I follow the same philosophy. If I couldn't feasibly kill something with the equipment I have irl I won't fight it in a traditional way

That has led me to learn how to fire recurve bows from elkback with surprising efficiency though

[final garden]

@fallow surge Does this one differ too much from the base style?

[hollow pasture]

(His jaw is actually so on the floor that he's unable to speak 🤣)

That's how my delusional self would interpret his lack of response

[final garden]

Eh, they're busy. It's no big deal, there's no rush

[sinful panther]

guess there's more than one way to do it, i only recall acids, for later Svvedish armor

[fallow surge]

I'm not feeling very well, I will look into it later

[thin wing]

feel better soon

sending you health potions

[slate ermine]

Sending you cattails and horsetails for bandages

[faint plover]

That s a cool ass helmet
It made me laugh a bit at how the helmet looks "frowny" and then it lifts up to reveal a very chill dude

[hollow pasture]

@final garden When I get the proper time to make my own addition to combat overhaul to add more realism elements, would you grant me permission to use your helmet models?

The main thing I want to do is to combine the head gambeson, maille layer, and plate layer all into 1 item so that the player can easily and realistically take off their helmet in 1 button press

Your hounskull is the main item I have in mind for that kind of thing

And once I figure out how to create the new itemtypes, smithing recipes, crafting recipes, and adding CO values, I have a few post steel additions that I'd really like to add

@fallow surge Does your armor framework force the same defense values for all areas of coverage that an armor has, or can you specify the protection to a certain part? (I.e. would it be possible to make a helmet give high value protection to the head, but lower value protections to the face?)

[graceful bridge]

When I worked on the JSON, that seemed to be the case.

It was setup so each item had a coverage area specified and a defense value specified.

But not a defense value in a coverage area.

But I didn't scan the code, only worked on the vanilla item conversion JSON.

[hollow pasture]

Unfortunate. I suppose I'll have to see if I can make it a wildcard of some sorts so I won't have to patch the entirety of CO. Thanks for the help though!

[graceful bridge]

But hey, I'm not the dev. I've just helped with a thing before, so it may be possible.

[hollow pasture]

It's a good thing plate helmets cover all areas then. Adding Russ styled helmets that have a skull cap combined with maille are going to be nigh impossible unless I figure that out.

[hollow pasture]

Hey, you know more than I do about json code so I trust it. I've had a look at it myself and saw that it must work that way in game as well

[final garden]

Yeah, sure thing! I'm just making these models as a hobby thing and to try and help people out, not make money or nothing

[next pond]

hi guys, i was playing a bit with this mod and i have a question. The three layered armor seems to make the player a walking juggernoaut, is it intended?

[hollow pasture]

The armor values shouldn't be interpreted as if you're stacking the base game armor values. Fighting late game enemies definitely makes you take less damage than vanilla, but it feels much more fair and allows you to not have to hide in a little corner to fight enemies

Bellheads still do solid damage against steel plate (especially when you aren't using the fully combined version) and those are sort of the only major threat in late game combat

I'm pretty sure you can just tune the received damage values up if you feel like you're too strong though

[hollow pasture]

Well most people who make art don't like it when other people take it and make their own art off of it, so it's always worth asking

[hollow pasture]

And when you say "walking juggernaut" what do you mean specifically?

[next pond]

currently testing against the boiler from Rustbound that in oneshots me normally does no damage once full tier(i think it's a compatibility use)

[hollow pasture]

The first 2 tables display damage dealt to the player compared to armor, and the 3rd displays the amount of damage the player does to enemies

[hollow pasture]

Rustbound has not had a patch made for it. All of the Fauna of the Stone Age mods have it though as well as all of the other mods made by that author

[next pond]

i just found out, in game the gearfoot bowthorne is attack tier 5, i am confused

[final garden]

It's definitely better to ask, so thank you, but you're free to use it as long as it's properly credited

[next pond]

yeah, i am finding this out. I was hoping for some interesting mob to fight

[hollow pasture]

There is no visible display for the damage tiers of enemies yet. The only displayed values are the resistances of the enemy you're fighting

Combat Overhaul changes all of the existing damage tiers present on enemies too

[next pond]

strange, i see them under protection. Do you know some mobs mods that is compatible apart for the fauna series? i was searching for interesting mobs but can't find anything apart for decaying creatures

[hollow pasture]

When it comes to the eldritch horrors, I don't think any are currently compatible

[next pond]

really sad, if only fantasy creatures would update

[analog belfry]

Been having weird things happen in my game idk if it’s a mixture of this mod, xskills, and level up but I’m on shorting like most mobs with one shot of a copper spear which seems dumb giving it the fist metal you can get

Any help? Has anyone else experienced this?

[upper ermine]

Are you headshotting them?

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, something is wrong with your game is some way. Check the damage logs and make sure you're dealing and receiving damage that's accurate to your weapon

[brave canyon]

It totally could be XSkills and Level Up, depending on how far along they are with those, or if they are compounding multiplicitively.

It's certainly not CO on it's own though, even with headshots

[mighty sun]

I have a quick question, My pals an I am playing on a locally hosted server, today while cave exploring we came across our first "The Living Dead" mob from Primitive survival, my friend and I with our Pikes attempted to spear this guy but he clearly did not care. Will the CO weapons not hit something if it has not had a hit box made for CO?

[brave canyon]

I think it does have proper hitboxes. At least, I remember running into it once with a friend and we kinda slapped it a bit but never killed it.

It could be you were not at range for your weapon? Or since it's a fast guy, he avoided the hits

[mighty sun]

it was rather slow walking, we were using Pikes so we should have been hitting it, we did not bring guns with us so i dont know if those would affect it

[brave canyon]

Oh, it must speed up a ton once you hit it.

Cause I remember him zoomin a bit.

[mighty sun]

oh shit, thein i guess we did not hit it

[brave canyon]

Yeah, hitting it properlly aggro'd it and then it was kinda speedy after that and downed my Friend cause he slipped in and fell

It kinda kept darting in and out of the darkness and it was frightening haha

[mighty sun]

it did hit me, nearly killed me, had the trusty Iron plate armor on

[analog belfry]

How do is check the logs?

[final garden]

I was able to solo one of those guys in a cave using CO club, so yeah, you can definitely hit him

[upper ermine]

I read that this was the case and it did seem like it when I used my gun but then someone else managed with different guns, so…???

[upper ermine]

How strong are the exoskeletons and do they offer stability for aiming

[hollow pasture]

Combat Overhaul's damage system is most likely not implemented correctly against those enemies and they will also have very inaccurate hitboxes. It's my suggestion you leave any enemy additions out of your modlist until a patch gets made for your mod because Combat Overhaul is genuinely large enough at this point that many creators are ensuring they are compatible

[hollow pasture]

Exoskeletons with plate armor underneath have the armor values as the fully cohesive unit (i.e. even though it's just a cuirass it has the stats of the full plate body armor). This puts them just over the threshhold to be able to deal with the endgame shivers with ease and makes gears easily farmable in the right circumstances

And yes, there are 2 different types of arm exoskeleton though, torque and speed. Torque increases melee damage, mining speed, and stability by a lot, but comes at a hit to your manipulation speed (Which isn't even a bad thing for melee, but is felt with ranged). Speed will increase your manipulation speed by a lot with little downside, but in my opinion isn't as good as Torque.

The leg exoskeleton is my favorite though. It gives you a whopping 50% movespeed boost I believe (only 30% with the plate armor variant), doubled jump height, and allows you to fall from much further before taking damage.

The chest exoskeleton comes with a built in lamp so you can 2 hand weapons with light at the same time as well as a temporal gear reservoir to automatically fill your other components when they run empty (They do need temporal fuel after all!)

Also I made this. Not quite happy with the quality of the clips yet to consider it a proper demonstration of what Combat Overhaul allows you to do from Elkback, but a massive step up from the original.

[upper ermine]

I think the admin has some copies of the individual mods along with CO so he gets duplicate recipe errors. Is it worth waking him from his drunken stupor to remove them, assuming I’m correct about what he gets those messages upon staring up the server?

I’m assuming they’re all in there except for the exoskeleton pack

[hollow pasture]

Maybe not waking him up, but Combat Overhaul really HATES having duplicate versions of itself in your mods folder/cache. After any update/file moving/manipulation of anything to do with Combat Overhaul it's recommended you restart your game or server (clearing your cache is even better) to prevent issues

This goes for it's supplementaries like armory, crossbows, Firearms, etc.

The most common issues this causes are items appearing as black squares, melee or ranged weapons not colliding with enemies, or a total lack of the new armor UI thar CO adds

[upper ermine]

So wait, the combat overhaul download contains the first three of these but not the fourth, right? The phrasing of this makes it sound like they’re not redundant

“Check out also
Combat Overhaul: Armory
Crossbows
Firearms
Exoskeletons”

[small tapir]

actually not only is CO large enough the mod that adds the enemy is large enough

primitive survival is #1 downloaded on db last i checked

[urban talon]

Damn.. I getting a crash with CO: Armory when looking at medium handles in the handbook, no crash log because it's just shuts down the game in a flash with no procedure..

[hollow pasture]

The Combat Overhaul download only includes Overhaullib and the animation changes. Armory, crossbows, Firearms, and exoskeletons are all seperate mods. I'd also recommend the reanimation mod that makes many of the attack animations feel a bit more impactful

[white bear]

For some reason the reanimation mod only applies to a limited selection of stuff

It applies to greatswords but not longswords, despite them to my knowledge being functionally identical

[hollow pasture]

It's because the author only reanimated things he felt needed reanimating. He gave the zweihander a flow-y moveset to reflect traditional use, whereas the longsword is very nimble and doesn't really use momentum

[white bear]

Tbh i feel like all the weapons could use re-animating, they all feel stiff as heck

[hollow pasture]

Well unfortunately the VS animator is not simple to use at all and requires lots of code to make anything at all. It's why this mod almost never received 3rd person animations

[white bear]

Sounds suboptimal...

[upper ermine]

Huh. Then why are we getting the duplicate recipes message @tender heron ?

[hollow pasture]

It's probably due to multiple versions of CO being present in your files. Be sure to only keep the most recently updated version that you are using and to delete all old versions

[tawdry condor]

@fallow surge told people on reddit about our server's rubberbanding issue and got this comment.

[rose yew]

quick question: I'm trying to edit some of the class traits but it's not letting me save the .json to the patches folder. what should i do?

[small tapir]

are you trying to saveas directly into the folder?

try save to desktop or somewhere else then copy paste into the folder

[patent storm]

Howdy, I've been playing on a server with friends that uses Combat Overhaul, and I've been...definitely seriously considering adding it to my SP game, but one major thing has been keeping me back from that and hampering my ability to work with it in general.

Is there any way to require some sort of key press to change a swing direction/stance? Like, instead of just moving the mouse in any given direction, I'd have to hold a button down and move the mouse? As it is, it's incredibly difficult to work with it given its sensitivity.

[brave canyon]

I believe recently there was a config option to change the directional attacking to be movement-key based instead of the mouse that was added relatively recently.

If you haven't updated to the most recent version, try that then peek at the configs for the mod? It'd probably be in the client settings if I had to guess

[patent storm]

Is there any plan for a totally bespoke keybind? I don't anticipate "still involuntary and tied to something you'll be doing constantly in a fight, but with the keyboard" being much better than the current system.

But I'll definitely check and see if it works better, thanks.

[rose yew]

I've got the trait acquirer mod so i just grabbed the trait that buffed that stat instead lol

[upper ermine]

He just needs to hit P or something... or was it O? Then search for combat overhaul. It's one of the settings ingame. But you need to be using something something lib config something something I forgot.

[hollow pasture]

There's a config option that allows you to change it to your movement keys instead

[upper ermine]

I see that there's a way to turn the exoskeleton's light on and off, but is there a way to activate and deactivate the bonuses, so you aren't constantly draining your temporal gears while cooking in your base? ||And can we get it so that when you activate it, you shout "BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL" or something like that?||

[final garden]

I think I had the same issue? If by rubberbanding you mean short periods of being teleported backwards and having hunger bar jump around weird. Seems to only be an issue if you increase hunger bar maximum with XSkills

[small tapir]

i mean the hunger bar thing is just xskills

even without co

the rubberbanding is exclusive to the two of them together as far as i can tell

[upper ermine]

Wait is THAT what that is? But it doesn’t seem consistent

[final garden]

It seems to happen at random, but only if I have the hunger upgrade

[upper ermine]

Interesting

[fallow surge]

@charred schooner can you please investigate this?

[hollow pasture]

That's honestly some crazy praise. Choosing to keep CO despite not working with Xskills has to mean you've "made it" in some way

[sage hornet]

Combat overhaul makes the game fundamentally different while xskills is just simple leveling system so
They chose correct in my honest opinion :p

[fallow surge]

I think it is good for first iteration. May be make nose part flatter or brows part to extend more.

[fallow surge]

@unkempt cobalt you might want to do the same for some larger animals from your mods, it may make hunting them more interesting and less of a damage grind. Ask @rustic tundra for details.

[tawdry condor]

we kept both and just chose to git gud (and carrying bandages when gitting good isn't possible)

but it's still annoying af

[tawdry condor]

nope, not that one

we didn't spec into hunger and respecced out of hp increase when we were trying to figure out the reason

[hollow pasture]

Does it still cause the stutter with no perk points into those 2 stats?

[tawdry condor]

yeah

but it kind of stutters if you eat while running

[thin wing]

rubberbanding when eating or healing can happen in vanilla too, mods can just make it a bit worse. Mods that make healing happen over time can make you microstutter on repeat as well

presumably due to how even in singleplayer you're just running a server on your machine to play locally, and every time you heal or or eat food the game recalculates your position and if there's some latency it'll make you rubberband

[flat compass]

when you update to the newest version will weapons and tools lose their textures

the old ones

[hollow pasture]

Does it still cause the stutter with no perk points into those 2 stats?

[uneven trench]

you actually rubberband visibly when pouring ingot molds lol

[gleaming citrus]

Xskills is overpowered

I can see a lot of people not using it just for that reason

[royal lava]

I don't use xskills on my server with my friends because it gives too much of a non-transferrable "ability gap" between those who play a LOT and those who play once a week.

What I mean by non-transferrable ability gap is, if you have maxed smithing skill you're essentially the "Server smith", there's little reason for other people to do smithing if someone else already can. Especially when the time sink for that is so high
Whereas if you have someone with a windmill and helve hammer (And mod that lets you craft everything with helve hammers in our case) someone who plays once a week can reasonably be given the tools to get to speed, or get them themselves in a relatively short time. You can "Transfer" that ability to someone else.

-# Also it's OP as hell for the people who do play a lot

[hollow pasture]

I really like their blacksmithing progression and some of the lighter skills, but yeah they can get very strong quickly

[final garden]

I really enjoy XSkills, especially for smithing, since it makes me feel like all that work at the forge is paying off by making me better. That said, I play on a server with typically 2 or 3 people and it's only open when we're playing

[next pond]

i find this interesting since i enjoy this mod for this very reason.
I setup classes that are jobs and only them can get exp in that particular skill tree.
So everyone is specialized, nobody is indispensable.

[royal lava]

Oh I totally get that, we tried that a few times too, but everyone in my server knows how to play the game, now that we've played for a few years. With that, everyone wants to 'touch' on everything because people get bored doing the same thing over and over.

Xskills was great when not everyone knew how to play the game, that was nice

We play with enough people where there is overlap as well though, so people get "pushed out" of jobs

[jaunty willow]

@fallow surge Reaching out as Comm. Manager for Age of Seraphs. We're running combat overhaul and its sister mods, and are running into hefty performance issues the second we get 10+ people in a singular area. We've reached out to other server owners running overhaul and it has been communicated as a similar issue. We average 50+ online at any given time and peak 80+ on weekends running 30+ player events. It drops FPS down to flip book the second players gathering in an area and are being rendered by the player. Have you gotten any feedback on this, are you aware? Is there any way to get a fork of this mod that doesn't modify player hitboxes and just brings in the weapons. We're struggling to get the mod off the server now but have fear of world corruption due to the sheer amount of items out in our world.

Would have DM'd but your profile says to ping in a channel.

We ideally want to keep combat overhaul and love the mod our community is really attached to it, but we cannot sustain player events and everything we test points back to combat overhaul impacting FPS.

[hollow pasture]

Does this testing just involve disabling Combat Overhaul or is there more in depth testing? The only big performance hit I could see being different from vanilla is that people in full plate+chain+gambeson will have ~2.5x the shapes on their model, but those are just simple polygons and shouldn't be causing a huge performance hit. Is there any way you could test groups with/without armor and with/without CO weapons in the chunk?

There have been reports in the past of this, but nobody bothered to do any proper testing or showing logs when server load was at it's worst

[jaunty willow]

We did testing on a small scale and saw improvement without the mod. We're going to run a larger test this weekend, try to get 40+ onto our test server for 15min without overhaul.

The issue is this isn't really a server issue, it chugs along just fine. It appears to be all client side. If you simple just turn away and not have the player entities on your screen, you fps goes right back to normal

[hollow pasture]

Do you have the ability to view the physical server status of the server your running? (i.e. CPU and RAM usage)

[jaunty willow]

but face a group of people even 8-10+ doesn't have to be many, and there is a SHARP difference

[hollow pasture]

This is very useful information

[jaunty willow]

yes and we've monitored that. We also upgraded the hardware to root that out first

[hollow pasture]

I wonder if it does have to do with the high shape count then

CO weapons tend to have a higher shape count than the base game too

[small tapir]

also the fact its an animation mod

[jaunty willow]

We're also a RP server, so people come fully decked in armor and gear to these events. I had heard some reports that when people take off their armor the hit boxes/entities don't dissappear until you relog but cannot confirm

[hollow pasture]

Does everyone experience around the same amount of drop, or are people with stronger rigs remaining strong?

[hollow pasture]

Armor itself doesn't have hitboxes as far as I'm aware. It just uses the base Seraph model and does the hitboxes based off of those limbs

[jaunty willow]

its across the board, and we've hosted events in numerous locations so we know it isn't chisel lag or build related

Im running a i9 13th gen and a 3070 so not horrible, but it drops to 5 fps if we hit over 30 in one area

partner has a 4080, same issue

[hollow pasture]

What part of your PC tends to have the highest load then? CPU, GPU, or RAM?

When under that load atleast

[jaunty willow]

That part I haven't checked but I can tell you after this weekend when we get another group together

[hollow pasture]

Some past people reported RAM issues, but had no clue what they were looking at because it was just a ChatGPT analysis. I'm not entirely in the know about just about any of Combat Overhaul's code, but I'll be glad to relay this info to Maltiez when he's feeling better

[jaunty willow]

We truthfully really want this mod to work out. But its kinda above our capacity to fix. We tested a few hours ago remove all overhaul related mods from a copy of the map on a test server and it did without corruption.

[hollow pasture]

I really hope it works out for you all as well. When I first started helping out with this mod it was a small dream to see people wearing their factions colored gambeson under their plate armor, and taking off their helmet to parley and the like.

[jaunty willow]

Should come see it in action then :3 we have a war scheduled this weekend between two factions. They've been preparing for just that.

[small tapir]

if it’s just “high polygons causing render issues” then it’s probably above maltiez’s capacity to fix unless he adds like,, a low poly mode or something

which would be cool but is also a lot of work so it probably wouldn’t happen

[hollow pasture]

I've never PvPed properly in Vintage Story, but I like to believe I'm pretty good at other melee slashers like Mordhau

Did this like 20 minutes ago

[hollow pasture]

There's some potential optimization if he found a way to cull gambesons whilst chain is being worn over it, otherwise you may be right

But for some reason I doubt it's a poly count issue

[hollow pasture]

Most people can run unoptimized models like VRChat ones that are 100k polygons+ whereas I'm guessing that full plate+chain+gambeson is at most a thousand per person in vintage story

[jaunty willow]

Thank you for your help in this! My DMs are open if needed, and I can have our devs dig around and obtain anything you need.

[small tapir]

ya but vr chat (large game designed around models and vr) also assumably is more optimized than vintage story (a smaller indie game) and combat overhaul (a mod some guy made for free)

[hollow pasture]

You'd be surprised 🤣

[small tapir]

but yea probably not

[delicate ocean]

not a single level 200 player, is there a new wave of activity? i remember matches being mostly the same 1k hour people in EU

[hollow pasture]

There for sure was earlier in the day, in fact the team split was really frustrating because the entire enemy team would be full of them, but I'd be the highest level on my own team. They went cross-platform semi-recently and made the game free for a month and that single handedly revived the game a bit. This was during off peak hours

[delicate ocean]

ah, as usual then

[flat compass]

@fallow surge yo quick question for ur mod compatibility with xskills

[lyric marsh]

ask the goddamn question

[flat compass]

Ur mod compatibility with xskills

Is the question

[fiery rune]

Everything is compatible

You just always have to use the latest version of xskills and CO

[flat compass]

I did and we kept getting lagspikes took it out and it worked plus the munk skill and the combat overhaul weapons mixed caused a crash

[fiery rune]

I don't know about the monk, attach logs, always attach logs, how are we supposed to know what the problem is if we can't see it?

You can always do a complete reinstall of the mods with a cache cleanup

It is important to clean the cache after every update of any mod

As well as regenerating the config files

This is the main source of problems with mods, more often only problems from improper installation

[flat compass]

Bro im not coming for your mod I like it and I don't know much about coding from scratch as well I installed the newest update and every item was corrupted

I was seeing if one of u guys could sit down with me later and help out a tad bit and maybe I can throw you guys an offer for later projects

[hollow pasture]

Hey, I apologize for our friend here for coming off as so demanding. We just often run into people complaining about issues and then fading into the aether. If you have log files, then please send them. As far as the item "corruption" goes that 110% sounds like an installation issue caused by having multiple instances of Combat Overhaul and its supplementary mods in your mods folder. Make sure you only have the latest version present in your files, or if your server you're playing on has an older version that you use that one

[flat compass]

The items are just black squares ill send a photo later when I get home from work if you could add me on discord so it's easier for me to dm you

As for the logs ill try to find them in the server logs

[hollow pasture]

Just ping me here so that the screenshots are more visible to the actual guy who does the doing around here, Maltiez

[flat compass]

Gotcha

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, that's the exact thing that's caused often by installation issues

[flat compass]

Now if the insulation is done properly will the item come back

Or would they have to craft them again properly

[hollow pasture]

For me they just came back, but things like guns came back unloaded

[flat compass]

Im going to try and re-downloading it again later but ill also send you all the crash logs

[hollow pasture]

And I think I lost the bayonet

[flat compass]

Alright well ill try re-downloading the newest version

[hollow pasture]

Try reinstalling Overhaul library as well. BE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU ONLY HAVE 1 VERSION OF EACH MOD IN YOUR FILES TOO!

[fiery rune]

And clear the cache

[hollow pasture]

Even if it's not enabled it has caused many issues
Having multiple instances that is

[flat compass]

If you guys could show me much would be appreciated

Also could I do an announcement with your guys link to this mod saying thank as well

[hollow pasture]

Windows+R>%appdata%>VintageStory>cache

[flat compass]

Is this for the server side

[hollow pasture]

Logs should also be stored there

[fiery rune]

root folder - data - cache - unpack

[hollow pasture]

Unfortunately I'm not sure. I haven't had the chance to mess with external servers in that way

[flat compass]

Ty as for cache just delete everything?

[fiery rune]

you can delete everything in the unpack folder, or you can delete it point by point

If you only have a problem with CO, then delete everything related to CO

[flat compass]

Ok

[fiery rune]

It's getting the CO lib cache and the CO cache

[flat compass]

Do you guys have a wiki or a youtube tutorial showing step by step yet if not i might ask for further assistance if that's not to much to ask for

[small tapir]

you were given the exact file path on what to look for

[flat compass]

I know but I might be a little slow and I'm a visual learner

[small tapir]

ok true

[gleaming citrus]

Is there a setting to limit the amount of enemies that can be hit with a swing

I feel like cleaving through so many enemies makes things too easy sometimes

[lyric marsh]

yet it is something sorely lacking in vanilla

the closest thing we have to an aoe attack is scrap bomb..

[hollow pasture]

A minecraft style sweeping edge damage system could do some good I think

[final garden]

I play with both on a small server, so it is compatible

[gleaming citrus]

I found a massive y level 10 cave that was nothing but flat ground for like 70 blocks in every direction

When a mishmash of nightmare drifters and bellhead shivers attacked I just corralled them all into a ball and slashed them all to death

It was kind of anti climatic

If I had vanilla weapons that would've been a real dangerous situation

[flat compass]

@hollow pasture and @fiery rune Running on 64 bit Windows 10.0.26100.0 with 16227 MB RAM
Game Version: v1.20.9 (Stable)
4/30/2025 6:27:04 PM: Critical error occurred
Loaded Mods: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Involved Harmony IDs: SomeUnknownMod, CombatOverhaulAuto
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at Vintagestory.GameContent.EntityShapeRenderer.RenderItem(Single dt, Boolean isShadowPass, ItemStack stack, AttachmentPointAndPose apap, ItemRenderInfo renderInfo) in VSEssentials\EntityRenderer\EntityShapeRenderer.cs:line 451
at Vintagestory.GameContent.EntityPlayerShapeRenderer.RenderHeldItem(Single dt, Boolean isShadowPass, Boolean right) in VSEssentials\EntityRenderer\EntityPlayerShapeRenderer.cs:line 308
at Vintagestory.GameContent.EntityPlayerShapeRenderer.DoRender3DOpaque_Patch1(EntityPlayerShapeRenderer this, Single dt, Boolean isShadowPass)
at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.SystemRenderEntities.OnRenderFrameShadows(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\Systems\Render\RenderEntities.cs:line 174
at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientEventManager.TriggerRenderStage(EnumRenderStage stage, Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\Util\ClientEventManager.cs:line 188
at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientMain.MainRenderLoop(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientMain.cs:line 825
at Vintagestory.Client.GuiScreenRunningGame.RenderToPrimary(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\MainMenu\Screens\GuiScreenRunningGame.cs:line 161
at Vintagestory.Client.ScreenManager.Render(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ScreenManager.cs:line 695
at Vintagestory.Client.ScreenManager.OnNewFrame(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ScreenManager.cs:line 670
at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientPlatformWindows.window_RenderFrame(FrameEventArgs e) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientPlatform\GameWindow.cs:line 88
at OpenTK.Windowing.Desktop.GameWindow.Run()
at Vintagestory.Client.ClientProgram.Start(ClientProgramArgs args, String[] rawArgs) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientProgram.cs:line 334
at Vintagestory.Client.ClientProgram.<>c__DisplayClass10_0.<.ctor>b__1() in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientProgram.cs:line 130
at Vintagestory.ClientNative.CrashReporter.Start(ThreadStart start) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientPlatform\ClientNative\CrashReporter.cs:line 93

I was sent this by a friend of mine from his crash log when it happened a day ago

Says combatoverhaul and some mod but maybe I read that file wrong

2:30 hours until im home but that's what i was sent so far

[hollow pasture]

It looks like something is attempting to harmony patch over combat overhaul or something that combat overhaul is affecting

Also I see that you have The basics and proximity chat mods installed. Don't those do the same thing?

Actually it could be the mute armor thing? That seems like it would be trying to patch an existing file that combat overhaul needs

[flat compass]

If you want i can look thru the logs more

[flat compass]

Im guessing what files would you need

[hollow pasture]

Is it crashing as soon as you open the server right now?

[flat compass]

not now

i uninstalled it

[final garden]

@fallow surge Extended the brow a bit. Lemme know if this looks better to you or not

Side by side comparisons: Extended brow followed by original

PS: @hollow pasture Don't know why I hadn't thought of this before, but I figured out a really great trick for rotating stuff. You can select between different axis of rotation (such as local vs global) by creating empty rotator cubes and nesting the objects you want to rotate into them. That way, you can create the shape you want, like the brow, then easily rotate it by rotating the rotation parent, making sure it stays along global rotation instead of local

[faint plover]

is there a recap of how much armor each body part is covered by somewhere?

if u have multiple layers or just a list in general
also there are many more body parts, do they all each have a chance of getting hit, or is it still head/torso/legs ?

[hollow pasture]

You have a total of 8 hitboxes. PvE enemies just have a chance to hit each individual box, but players can fit every hitbox accurately. All protection values horizontally add up per slot covered (i.e. steel plate chest slashing defense would just add to the chain beneath it etc.

[faint plover]

am I skill issued or is this shield impossible to smith?
how do u move the voxels from under?

[nocturne shore]

No clue how to move them from under, but you can always add more material with extra ingots

[faint plover]

yeah but the recipe said 2 ingots, so I only prepped 2 ingots :/

[nocturne shore]

you can reheat cold object in forge

also, where does it list how many ingots you need?

[misty steppe]

handbook

[nocturne shore]

wreid, i have never noticed that xd

[misty steppe]

I wanted to suggest to get SmithingPlus as it lets you flip work items.

But its yet another mod

[faint plover]

oh shit that's right I could do that
i do have SmithingPlus, and I tried adding bits, but since you can't choose where the bits go I can't just add them on the edge...so it's just the same problem

[misty steppe]

Remember to not rotate flipped work items, as it may mess with the voxels

just flip it back, rotate, and flip again

[hollow pasture]

You just stack the voxels up in a bowl shape and remove the bottom ones to leave the voxels floating

[hollow pasture]

It's a Dana mod

[faint plover]

yes but I need enough voxels to start with

[hollow pasture]

Or smithing plus

[hollow pasture]

Did you delete any?

[faint plover]

and maybe i fucked up and it's possible, but it didn't look like it

[faint plover]

i think like 3 or 4 at the stage of the screenshot ye

but they were already in place

floating

so technically not a waste

[hollow pasture]

I've got a lot of things I gotta let Maltiez know about it seems. You definitely don't look like you've got enough voxels to create a "shelf" for the parts

[faint plover]

i would do a more thorough test before assuring it's not possible tho

bc I know I just suck sometimes lol

but i would prob being able to do it with the smithplus flip option for sure, i didn't know about it before I gave up on the craft tho

[hollow pasture]

@fallow surge
Current issues I've been made aware of with Combat Overhaul:

• Massive client side performance issues with more than 5 people in an area
• Longsword, pollaxe, and potentially other weapons not having the correct damage type when using alternate attacks (i.e. longsword thrust> not Pierce, and Halberd hammer> not Blunt.) I've yet to test this myself though!

[nocturne shore]

wreid, both forlorn & blackguard work correctly for me

still if you get hit by blunt with only blackguard, it wont help you much

& keep in mind that if enemy attack tier exceedes your armor then it doesnt matter if it was only blackguard or chainmail

[faint plover]

can't you wear leather or gambeson below blackguard?

[nocturne shore]

you can

[faint plover]

that's where u get the blunt resist

[nocturne shore]

but if you compare raw blackguard vs copper armor

vs something like goat

[faint plover]

though not many attacks are blunt tbh

[nocturne shore]

there wont be any difference

[faint plover]

also CO isn't compatible with fauna of the stone age right?

[nocturne shore]

yes

[faint plover]

how do damage calculations work with imcompatible creature?

[nocturne shore]

didnt test

[hollow pasture]

From what I see they either do their full damage, or no damage (i.e. wearing any kind of armor will completely negate the damage)

[hollow pasture]

Actually you're probably right. They were probably using steel weapons and the guy might not have been wearing maille or gambeson underneath to test

[nocturne shore]

-.-

Steel weapons

with 6-7 dmg tier?

[hollow pasture]

With steel maille underneath blackguard armor, it still shouldn't do a huge amount of damage

Yeah, adding defensive values you get 6 slash+5 slash+2 slash for a tier of 13

Which should reduce steel weapon damage to less than 1

[nocturne shore]

damn, when did gearfoot gain 9th dmg tier

[hollow pasture]

But without steel maille that quickly drops to tier 8, which is only half damage at tier 6 attack, but on a headshot/neck Slash that can be your whole healthbar

[hollow pasture]

I dunno, I've never seen one

[latent rain]

hello, getting the rare bug thing that doesn't reg damage on attack. this is specifically for ranged damage. the logs do indicate that there is an exception occuring:

is there any thing i can do to circumvent this? we just started trying out the mod and we like it but having no range weapon is a nonstarter

[hollow pasture]

Do you have xskills installed?

[final garden]

It does specify XSkills in the log

[hollow pasture]

Make sure xskills is updated to its latest version and that you don't have duplicate instances of it

[latent rain]

thank you, i'll give it a try

[latent rain]

That worked

[hollow pasture]

Awesome! Happy to help

[stark quail]

Didn't polaxe use to have the ability to change length like the spears? Or am I misremembering? And if yes why was it removed? Simplification of moveset?

[sinful panther]

Cuz it didnt work well in it's case

[stark quail]

Gotcha thanks.

[faint plover]

i cried when I noticed drifters have really high piercing resistances because I am so bad at fighting closer with swords or maces

but I must acquit and try to make use of the super high stats of the falx

[hallow bolt]

Make a greatsword

It has range + good block/parry

Also it has a really good damage stat

In fact, the greatsword outdamages the quarterstaff even against nightmare+ enemies

[patent storm]

asked about it before but is there any plan for a bespoke key to hold down to engage the stance changing mechanic to avoid the inherent problems of always changing stance via mouse movement or movement keys

@fallow surge

[upper ermine]

Getting flashbacks to old school pso2

[faint plover]

actually a good idea, but it is not usable in caves because you need light as off-hand, and if you have off-hand...well youcan't use greatsword no more

[hallow bolt]

put a lantern down

they come at you -> you stab them to death -> pick up lantern again

there's also a mod to add equippable light sources

which "just" enough light to fight

[faint plover]

that's really annoying and impractical...now you can't move more than 10 blocks away, and just...
today I went in a cave for my first time, I fought some guys, then some more, and after 5minutes of constant fighting and progressing 20 blocks into the cave, I knew something was already wrong, but I kept pressing on. 20 minutes later, I have killed dozens of them, their bodies are still there, because by the time I carve one, 2 more show up. There are locusts nests above me, I still don't have time to destroy them (they take ages)
I learned today was "very high" rift activity affects cave spawn rates. But the fact that in this situation I had to literally stop what I was doing to go back to fighting literally every minute, makes me say this is just impossible to have that strat

[hallow bolt]

the only thing I can say to that is skill issue then

as it's an effective strat

[faint plover]

lmao that's true, but still, how do u fight bowtorns in cave or night then?

bowtorns shoot from the dark

you can't even see them at night

even with a lantern

u have to track the sound and chase

and they run away

[hallow bolt]

you're not blind at night or you can just put down torches

it's not some "gotcha" that no one has figured out lol

it's just a downside of using the weapon

[small tapir]

xskills cateyes:

ok tbf thats not exactly good in caves but it works for the bowtorn in the middle of the night

[nocturne shore]

Just throw torches on ground

[brave canyon]

I recommend getting the Wearable lights mod

It's a really solid choice and the Backpack Lantern means you always have like a 12 aura of light around you which is pretty nice

I have no problem using my Long Axe with that on and just go ham

[gleaming citrus]

Just greatswoed

It is the best weapon it beats everything

Actually don't use it, it gets boring

[small tapir]

@fallow surge can i use the Javelin itemtype and edit it to use as the basis for throwing knives

i figure i should ask before i just take your code and actually go made a mod that i intend to upload with it

[pseudo elbow]

whats the best wepon to kill the eidlion

[hallow bolt]

I liked to use the Quarterstaff because blunt is universally effective vs machines

But now I think the Greatsword is better

The recent bow buff means you can just plink it to death too

[small tapir]

poleaxe overhead does blunt and conveniently swings to hit his massive weak point

[pseudo elbow]

Is it his eye?

[upper ermine]

The what? How recent?

[hallow bolt]

high quality arrows give +1 or +2 damage tier

so you can do a lot more damage to the dangerous enemies now

[upper ermine]

Are there high quality bolts too? ||high quality bullets when?||

[hallow bolt]

Only arrows as bows were honestly underperforming imo

Crossbows and guns still bully

[hollow pasture]

Steel bolts don't increase damage tier, just damage for balance's sake

[flat compass]

readded the mod in and this is what has been popping up

#multiplayer message

readded this back into the game

and a few players just got this error

[hollow pasture]

That's odd because none of the references appear to be to Combat Overhaul

[hollow pasture]

@fallow surge
After searching around the internal testing of this server, this is the current stuff I run into

CO seems to not affect SERVER performance at all, so logs aren't all that useful, but the rendering of the increased number of hitboxes/adjustments to hitboxes seems to have catastrophic effects on client side performance (5+ people in an area tanks client fps)

[hollow pasture]

Other notes:
-Performance issues seem exclusive to rendering players despite the large number of hitboxes present on the enemies

[shut bay]

hello, i havent played vintage story with combat overhaul on for quite a while, is there a reason for why pickaxes and axes dont have their animations anymore?

[small tapir]

i believe it was separated into its own mod

[shut bay]

what's it called?

nevermind, i believe i found it, but thanks for telling me 👍

[hot pulsar]

another mod split kinda like bullseye where its ONLY the Better hit reg and falx animation

this is my dream

[nocturne shore]

so basicly CO without armor changes

[small tapir]

without the damage types either i think going off the description they said

[flat compass]

It was a overhaul item that was broken in game from last time simple fix deleted the inventory by dying and not picking the invisible item up

[hollow pasture]

Did it only become an invisible crasher item with the mod installed?

[flat compass]

After the mod was reinstalled it turned invisible

1 out of the 10

[hollow pasture]

Truly peculiar. Does everything function as intended now?

[flat compass]

After dying and burying my body yes

[hollow pasture]

Well I'm glad things worked out. I swear this mod has the silliest issues that don't really ever seem to be a part of the mod itself

[hot pulsar]

pretty much im indifferent to most the changes but i feel the better hit reg and animations are pretty much just an objective upgrade over vanilla

[nocturne shore]

Without armor changes, dmg types dont exist

[small tapir]

to the enemies tho?

although yea i might be stupid

[pseudo elbow]

Any plans to add new types of armor

Like kettle helm

Or sallet?

[lyric marsh]

how many samples of this do you have?

did everyone confirm this?

i could contribute

this is peculiar

[hollow pasture]

So just yesterday we stress tested things with 25 people and it seemed that Combat Overhaul was a contributor to fps loss, but definitely wasn't the core reason for fps reaching sub 10s. The lowest we got on fps whilst 25 people were fully armored was around the high 20s for everyone, which is pretty rough but isn't much better in vanilla. Our stress test concluded in a heavily chiseled and burning environment, and that is where we saw fps in the low teens and large game-freezing stutters

It seems that clearing the cache often helps with client side frame rates for whatever reason

[lyric marsh]

yeah chiseling can be the biggest fps killer

[hollow pasture]

Currently Maltiez is on break. Anyone is welcome to model a kettle/sallet helm and add it to the game themselves. It's a little time consuming, but once you get it once you can just copy the values

[hollow pasture]

Also support beams

We went into a heavily chiseled dragonsreach on our server and most were in the high 40s whilst armored with no support beams

Even large scale free for alls were around 20 fps.

The problem is that the server's most recent pvp event ran like a slideshow though, so they're still trying to find a suitable workaround

[final garden]

I've been working on a sallet in my spare time

[pseudo elbow]

very nice

[stoic mauve]

If I were trying to set a piece of armor to only take up the middle slots, is this correct?

"CombatOverhaul:Armor", "propertiesByType": { "armorbody-*-*-tier1": { "Layers": [ "Middle" ], "Zones": [ "Torso", "Arms", "Hands" ],
If someone's got an answer for this, please ping me so I see it!

[hollow pasture]

It's best to send code like this in code blocks using 2 graves at the beginning and end

` <this character

Like this

[stoic mauve]

by default, it looks like this:
"name": "CombatOverhaul:Armor", "propertiesByType": { "armorbody-*-*-tier1": { "Layers": [ "Outer" ], "Zones": [ "Torso", "Arms", "Hands" ],
but setting Outer to Middle doesn't seem to be working.

[hollow pasture]

Is "middle" the slot referenced by other armors?

[stoic mauve]

No idea; how would I be able to tell? As far as I'm aware, it should just be for the mage armors from Rustbound Magic.

[hollow pasture]

I mean by looking at the item types used for the normal combat overhaul armors

[stoic mauve]

I unfortunately just packed up my laptop for the night and cannot check; may I ping you about this later? It's like 4:40 am here right now and I have to sleep

Isn't 'Middle' just the layer indication though?

[finite cosmos]

is there a way to reduce/remove arms inertia
it's buggin me when i run and make sharp turns, that my character nosediving into own armpit

[hollow pasture]

What do you mean by inertia?

And is this in first or third person?

[misty steppe]

Wobbly arms probably, and the delay when you change direction

[hollow pasture]

I need a video of this because these terms mean nothing to me 😭 Apologies

[hallow bolt]

it sounds like Immersive First Person imo

[misty steppe]

Very possibly

[hallow bolt]

as I had that problem with it and disabling it fixed that problem

[finite cosmos]

Nah, I mean the movement of arms in first person, not immersive, in response to player's movement.

[hallow bolt]

ah ok not sure then

[finite cosmos]

Like, when you move your mouse, arms respond to your movement with its movement on screen.

Or smth like that, dunno how to explain it further, sorry

[hollow pasture]

And somehow your head/point of view drops into your armpit?

[finite cosmos]

When you run/walk, arms wobble, and if you make sharp turns, arms movement and bobbing adds and it can cause your shoulder clipping into your view.

Even with arms vertical pos at 0

[lyric marsh]

this happens when you shiver too

it's quite annoying

[faint plover]

What happens when mob that aren't compatible with CO fight you?

iirc Fauna of the Stone Age isn't adapted to CO

i guess the damage calculations are the same, but i wonder what type of damage attacks are, bc type of damage doesn't exist in vanilla does it?

also modded animals would have no natural armor lol

[hallow bolt]

I imagine it's on a case by case basis with mods but in CO + Rustbound magic, the enemies ignore your armor (do true damage) and you do true damage back at them

no crashes or lag in my experience

[faint plover]

i just tested in a creaticve world fighting lions and rhinos from Fauna of the stone age, armor does work, but i think they don't have any lol

[hallow bolt]

also enemies do not appear to have limb damage so you don't get damage modifiers based on where you hit

[faint plover]

so basically a buff for me >:)

[hallow bolt]

lol nice I haven't tried Fauna but imagine you'd need it considering the enemies you fight lol

[faint plover]

sure fuking do

those big cats are a death sentence if you don't see em coming

[final garden]

I'm not sure what exactly they're referring to, but maybe it's how you can see your arms sometimes due to your character stretching or something, and if you turn rapidly, the arms end up in your vision

[hollow pasture]

It is actually

[faint plover]

it is?

it doesn't show the animal's natural armor

[hollow pasture]

Most of the time you either receive and deal full damage to enemies, or wearing any armor at all with negate all damage from them

[hollow pasture]

Check the mod page. I think they have the stats listed there

[brave canyon]

Enemies do have localized damage. You deal like double damage on headshots and such. I also know some of the Dinos mods have even higher multipliers like hitting their eyes or their heart with a penetrating weapon can deal insane bonus damage or an insta-kill.

[hollow dune]

Anybody know a possible fix for xskills and combat overhaul compatibility? Atm projectiles just go through al vanilla mobs so its impossible to do any damage from ranged. Combat overhaul without xskills works fine but just wanted to know if somebody knows about a workaround

[stoic mauve]

Alright, here's the patch file (from Rustbound Magic) with my tweaks, except for whatever reason none of the tweaks I made are actually showing up in-game. No idea why though

[hallow bolt]

ah that message was for Rustbound Magic enemies as a reference that it's "case by case" for mods

[brave canyon]

Aaah.

[heady dirge]

Hi all, quick question.

I was wearing my blackguard armor set when I realized that the plate armor on the arm is on the wrong side. While I'm not completely sure since I'm a new player to the game I was curious if anyone else noticed this detail? When playing in vanilla it seems to switch to a different side. Currently in my world the plate armor for the cuirass is located on the left arm.

I don't know if this was intention or a oversight. Though knowing Maltiez I'd assume there is a reason for this as he does really great work.

So could it be an issue on my end if this is the case?

[stoic mauve]

Is it possible that it's the autopatcher causing the problem, and is there a way for me to disable it so I can test?

[signal vapor]

So after thoroughly testing, whenever there is a trait that changes range damage by 20%, or 150%, or in any numbers, the damage does not change. I will take it this was on purpose too since the base class "Hunter" no longer has the trait "Focused." Will it be possible for you to make it even when there is a range damage increase, it still happens instead of just nothing happening? it destroys modded classes and gets rid of the idea of an archer class being able to do a huge amount of damage.

does anyone know how to fix this problem?

@fallow surge would I need to make a patch file somehow to fix this?

[onyx plaza]

Does anyone know if there's a way to lessen the load on a server running Combat Overhaul and it's other mods?

[onyx plaza]

Nevermind... I guess getting this stuff to run on a server is just impossible

[brave canyon]

It doesn't really seem to have much load on a server?

It's probably something else that's lagging the server-side

[onyx plaza]

The memory usage straight up doubles with only about 10 people

We have had 0 issues for months, but EVERY time we've tried to load this mod in, we get issues with server tick stuttering and memory hogging

[stoic mauve]

Did some digging, it looks like it is the autopatcher after all. But why's the autopatcher even running on it, when Rustbound Magic has its own patch files built in?

[brave canyon]

What other mods do you have? I've never had trouble running a local private server for friends and I unless someone was generating a whole bunch.

And well, that's generation. That's expected to lag.

I had similar to 10 people on at the same time as well and it ran smooth, we had client lag but that's a differrent matter and was caused by other mods as well.

[onyx plaza]

I can't really list them all easily as I'm not hosting, but I assure you it's been every time we load up Maltiez's mods

[brave canyon]

Are you sure your server can handle that many people and that many mods then?

And if you are not hosting it, then why are you trying to solve server performance?

[onyx plaza]

I'm trying to solve it because the hoster is busy

[brave canyon]

It's likely something only someone who actually can access the server can really deal with.

[onyx plaza]

Irrelevant question

[brave canyon]

I mean, if you cannot access the server and don't have admin, I don't see how you can do anything.

[onyx plaza]

It's a group of friends server

It's not like there's real ownership

[brave canyon]

Then just wait for your friend to be free so they can address it.

[onyx plaza]

We're just trying to figure it out

That's

We're just trying to figure out why it's memory hogging

[brave canyon]

I know you want to help, but it's just, there's not anything you can do.

If it is, you need logs and everything, as well as a modlist and more

If you can't provide that, you can't solve the problem unfortunately.

It's likely something else either not playing well or something else entirely, because the only thing mentioned so far has been clientside lag issues possibly, and that's still being investigated.

[onyx plaza]

Still being investigated?

So this is a known issue

[brave canyon]

No, that's a different issue.

And I specified that.

Clientside is not the Serverside. You are saying there is serverside issues.

[onyx plaza]

I said the server is using double the memory when these mods specifically are loaded, and that there's player stuttering.

So as far as I can tell, that's boths erverside and clientside

[brave canyon]

Yes, the server using Memory is a serverside issue...

It's not both.

How is it hosted, is one person just opening their game, loading up a world and it's open to connections?

[onyx plaza]

Yeah one person. I'm talking to him right now

[brave canyon]

Okay that might be the issue then

You should see if they can move it to the dedicated server instead.

[onyx plaza]

Oh, because Combat OVerhaul uses a lot more memory?

[brave canyon]

Look. I'm trying to help you here, but you keep saying things like that.

[onyx plaza]

We're palying without it just fine at the moment

[brave canyon]

It feels like you are looking for a reason to complain about Combat Overhaul.

So please, stop that.

[onyx plaza]

We love the mod and want to use it, please don't assume

[brave canyon]

I didn't. I said it feels like you are.

Because you are extremely jumping to conclusions.

[onyx plaza]

Again; without the mod, no issues... Manageble memory, no lag, nothing. WITH the mod, there's issues. Only mod we can think of having a conflict is 'Better Scrap' as it adds armor and weapons.

[brave canyon]

And the game as a whole simply runs better if you are not locally hosting both the Client and Server in the same instance of the game thread actually running.

It has nothing to do with the one mod.

You are likely hitting the maximum of what their computer can handle, so it starts running out of memory.

When it hits the cap, it needs to work harder to free more space so it can keep loading things and actually processing the game.

There's simply a point where you can have too much and your computer cannot handle it. I have experienced this myself and had to trim down mods for this exact reason.

Like for example, Age of Confession? It's a building mod. But alone it ate up 4 gigs of ram.

That was the only outlier I actually found that used an exorbinant amount.

[tough coral]

And Combat Overhaul (with Armory, Crossbows, and Firearms), uses up to 10gb

[brave canyon]

Other then that you have to look at mods that add lots of textures, items, blocks... Because all of those are using more

I can tell you that's not the case in my experience for sure

[onyx plaza]

PEar's the owner btw

[brave canyon]

I had a feeling

[onyx plaza]

I understand in singleplayer I barely use any extra memory. Nothing notable.

Been using the mod in SP forever

[brave canyon]

Then you should see the point I've been trying to tell you.

[onyx plaza]

Excuse our frustration, we genuinely want this mod to work

[brave canyon]

You hit that maximum your computer can support.

[tough coral]

if I had to guess, it's generating items for combinations of materials

[brave canyon]

Because if it was a problem with the mod alone... It would appear in all instances of it being used.

It would show up in your singleplayer as using this supposed 10 gigs of ram.

[tough coral]

"It works fine on my PC"

Thank you, very helpful

[onyx plaza]

Personally I think it's based on how many player models are present on the server

[brave canyon]

You are putting words in my mouth.

[onyx plaza]

And the mod is calculating them all

[tough coral]

I'm sure there's some combination of mods here that's breaking it

[brave canyon]

That's literally what I've been trying to say.

It's not solely CO

I asked for a modlist earlier, scroll up if you don't believe me.

Remi said they cannot give it, so I was like, well, there's not anything that can be done if you cannot access that or the logs.

Also the game doesn't load textures or models on the Serverside, it has no reason to.

[tough coral]

it's a bit of a large list, so I'm going through whatever mods might be a likely suspect

[brave canyon]

That's why it's a purely clientside lag issue that I mentioned earlier.

[tough coral]

Bricklayer?

[brave canyon]

Probably adds a lot of blocks and items, yes.

[tough coral]

was not purely clientside, I felt it too

[onyx plaza]

I think he wants the ENTIRE modlist

[brave canyon]

I do want the entire list.

[onyx plaza]

Wait, my log frome arlier will have it Pear

[brave canyon]

And Remi said you are locally hosting it through the regular Vintage.exe

[onyx plaza]

one sec

[brave canyon]

You should move it to the Dedicated Server exe instead

[tough coral]

ah, thanks Remi, good point

[tough coral]

we host it pretty irregularly, though we plan to shift it to its own machine as soon as we have it available

[brave canyon]

Running both the client and server on the same thread is a problem, and that's how it would be running.

No, like, the Dedicated Server is a separate executable.

[onyx plaza]

I'm an idiot. Does this look right? Loaded Mods: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

[tough coral]

right, didn't consider thread optimization

[brave canyon]

You can set it up so that it looks in it's own data directory and runs just the server-side.

That will help clean things up somewhat because base Vintage just runs better that way.

[tough coral]

yeah, ran MC server that way a while back

[brave canyon]

Yeah, it's the same idea there.

Minecraft runs LOADS better if you separate the two as well

[tough coral]

VS also flat out loads better by default

[brave canyon]

I've lagged while testing a massive pack I built in Singleplayer, but when I shift it to a dedicated server, it's actually fine and no lag at all.

It's the same principal here.

[tough coral]

still, I'd like to see why CO is so determined to eat up 10gb of mem

[brave canyon]

It's... Not.

I've been trying to tell you, you likely do not have a computer strong enough to run all that and handle 10 people connecting while you are hosting it through LAN effectively.

[onyx plaza]

Again, rephrasing; Current list WITH CO loaded does in fact bloat up memory suddenly. It may not be CO ALONE, but CO with soemthing else is absolutely doing it

[brave canyon]

You hit that maximum cap, so the computer has to compromise, use more RAM elsewhere because it does not have the processing to keep up with everything.

It's a fact about how computers simply work

[tough coral]

CPU was not struggling

VS was holding too much in memory, I had NO other major things running

[brave canyon]

Vintage is primarily single-threaded

So it's likely maxing out the main thread.

[tough coral]

Right, after tonight, I'm porting it to run in the dedi exe

will see how the mem usage is then

[brave canyon]

That's a good plan

Your memory is likely being used by a mixture of Bricklayers, it has a lot of blocks though it did get rewritten recently to clean it up some. As much as I love Expanded Foods as well, that has a TON of items and is known for being kinda RAM hungry. Trail Mod depending on settings could cause a lot of ticking serverside, so eeeeh, not really a RAM thing though. Tabletop Games is nice, but I found removing it in my experience dropped RAM used by about a gig. I think it might've been a bit of a fluke cause it was inconsistent as well. RP Voice Chat... I don't use it, but I don't know how well that might work especially for your setup having problems already?

There's the slew of CO mods, you got Armory as well, yeah it does have items but you gotta pick and choose at this point. It's optimized like TableTop though to not register individual items, it just lets the clients render based on attributes on the items. Another reason why I was hesitant to believe TTG caused much trouble even in my experience, I just removed it cause it was one of the least used. From Golden Combs is great, but it uses a ton of variants to have the wood color things - it probably has more then all of CO and addons combined with the Langstroff Hive alone, that's a lot of items as a result. You can probably turn off Foodshelves Wood Variants if you haven't already, I believe they are not loaded if that's not on.

... I think that's all I really notice that stands out and I have experience with.

But it sounds like you cannot run all that, see if the dedicated server helps enough, if not, you might have to pick and choose and just overall reduce your mod usage.

And not counting any mod names I don't recognize either.

[delicate ocean]

How did you determine the amount of ram a mod used? Just checking usage with and without or is there a different way to determine it?

[brave canyon]

It wasn't very pretty, it was mainly trying them with and without, yeah. As well as just loading it up alone, and with others or not. It took a whole while and it was not reliable at all. The only time it is even decently reliable is when a mod adds a lot of items/blocks and textures.

Though since the Shapes and Textures only effect the clientside, you won't see those on the server.

It's why large mods like Wildcraft or Expanded Foods can be known for it, or Age of Confession, simply through the shear volume of blocks or items they add.

-# Yet I cannot play without my fruits variety or foods hahah.

[delicate ocean]

Hahaha, yeah, also hanging onto expanded foods despite some players having issues with ram usage on my server too. Just cannot pass up the foods.

[brave canyon]

Oh yeah, absolutely I just LOVE the variety of foods.

I had to let Wildcraft Trees go though because it was hard to keep it working with other mods, and the number of textures and everything was making it not very viable.

[delicate ocean]

I do have some other large content mods, I will try to trim the list a bit. Nobody has done any apiculture, so I might drop From Golden Combs first.

It seems a lot of people have these issues with ram used on modded servers, maybe a list could be made showing the rough usage by each mod, so that servers could plan around it.

[brave canyon]

The only reliable way to really say for sure if it uses a lot is just knowing how the game works, and checking what and how the mod adds things. Then see if it's big enough of an impact and everything, run a ton of tests like loading it solo and stuff... And see if even removing it has an impact worth losing out on it.

That's the thing, it's incredibly hard to say for certain just how much RAM anything uses

It's easier to guess at "A Lot" or "A Little" but for concrete numbers... it could vary on hardware some, and just, a lot of things.

Really it just comes down to what do you want to play with, and can you run it all

[delicate ocean]

Darnit, I suspected it wouldn't be that easy

[brave canyon]

Like Combat Overhaul, I LOVE it. The variety of weapons from armory and the armors? It's incredible. Maltiez has also done incredible work cause the different handles both separate and part of the weapons? They are all a single item.

They use vanilla textures as well, so it doesn't add any texture use.

It's actually really efficient for those matters, and yeah, the whole hitbox thing causing client FPS problems might be getting investigated by some people earlier but yeah.

[hollow pasture]

Make sure you are on the latest version of both mods! This issue always seems to get fixed by just updating xskills

[hollow pasture]

Combat Overhaul has been tested en-mass on large servers with almost no server side usage. It has been shown to have some performance impact client side when combined with large areas with many entities like support beams or Chiseled blocks

[hollow dune]

Yea thanks I did that! It's working fine now so that's great 😄

[hollow pasture]

This just sounds like a memory leak. Be sure to clear your cache.

[hollow pasture]

Please send screenshots of server RAM usage with and without the mod as well as after clearing your cache. Servers should be restarted atleast once daily.

[hollow pasture]

If you're hosting the server locally whilst playing AND having a memory leak from having many mods it is gonna affect server performance

[hollow pasture]

It could be an issue with xskills conflicting with combat overhaul, but I don't think it should cause issues that are that big. I've heard reports, though untested, that any sort of perk that changes hunger or health doesn't mix nice with any other mod that does the same thing

[finite cosmos]

how does armor layering works?
resists just sums or what?

[brave canyon]

Yeaaaaah, that's basically what I was trying to tell them as well, Corat, heh

[hallow bolt]

Add all the armor pieces for each slot together

Be aware it's RNG where you get hit so an anklebiter drifter can still somehow hit your face

[finite cosmos]

yeah, i'm fully aware of that 💀

thanks for the answer

[hallow bolt]

Fun times c:

Assume anything 6+ in total is well protected

[onyx plaza]

Does CO change health or hunger?

[hallow bolt]

it changes enemy damage and how armor influences stats but no direct hp or hunger changes

[onyx plaza]

ok then

[faint plover]

about shields
correct me if I'm wrong
but block adds the Tier of the block to your armor
and parry, substracts the Tier of the parry from the tier of the attack
right?

as in, block gives armor, parry simply parries the block entirely (if it is a high enough tier)

[hollow pasture]

No, but that in particular has shown to cause major stutters

[gleaming citrus]

what are "second chance" mechanics

[hollow pasture]

Shield does not add any armor. Shields totally negate damage if the attack tier hits a shield-covered zone. If an attack exceeds that tier or misses the armor it will just roll damage according to the armor part it hits

[lyric marsh]

oneshot protection

[faint plover]

then why is there both a parry and block mechanic?

[hollow pasture]

It's meant to prevent sudden random deaths caused by random hits to the head, face, or neck that you wouldn't have in the base game. It prevents sudden lethal damage that takes a substantial portion of your health from killing you. It has a cooldown though, so if you're unarmored you'll still get killed