Combat Overhaul

[fallow surge]

Crosshair being red means nothing

[sterile breach]

Would anybody be able to tell me if this is an issue with my installation of combat overhaul?

Game Version: v1.20.7 (Stable)
2025-04-12 2:11:32 PM: Critical error occurred
Loaded Mods: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Involved Harmony IDs: SomeUnknownMod, CombatOverhaulAuto
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at Vintagestory.GameContent.EntityShapeRenderer.RenderItem(Single dt, Boolean isShadowPass, ItemStack stack, AttachmentPointAndPose apap, ItemRenderInfo renderInfo) in VSEssentials\EntityRenderer\EntityShapeRenderer.cs:line 451
   at Vintagestory.GameContent.EntityPlayerShapeRenderer.RenderHeldItem(Single dt, Boolean isShadowPass, Boolean right) in VSEssentials\EntityRenderer\EntityPlayerShapeRenderer.cs:line 308
   at Vintagestory.GameContent.EntityPlayerShapeRenderer.DoRender3DOpaque_Patch2(EntityP

continued: layerShapeRenderer this, Single dt, Boolean isShadowPass) at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.SystemRenderEntities.OnRenderFrameShadows(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\Systems\Render\RenderEntities.cs:line 174 at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientEventManager.TriggerRenderStage(EnumRenderStage stage, Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\Util\ClientEventManager.cs:line 188 at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientMain.MainRenderLoop(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientMain.cs:line 825 at Vintagestory.Client.GuiScreenRunningGame.RenderToPrimary(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\MainMenu\Screens\GuiScreenRunningGame.cs:line 161 at Vintagestory.Client.ScreenManager.Render(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ScreenManager.cs:line 695 at Vintagestory.Client.ScreenManager.OnNewFrame(Single dt) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ScreenManager.cs:line 670 at Vintagestory.Client.NoObf.ClientPlatformWindows.window_RenderFrame(FrameEventArgs e) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientPlatform\GameWindow.cs:line 88 at OpenTK.Windowing.Desktop.GameWindow.Run() at Vintagestory.Client.ClientProgram.Start(ClientProgramArgs args, String[] rawArgs) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientProgram.cs:line 334 at Vintagestory.Client.ClientProgram.<>c__DisplayClass10_0.<.ctor>b__1() in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientProgram.cs:line 130 at Vintagestory.ClientNative.CrashReporter.Start(ThreadStart start) in VintagestoryLib\Client\ClientPlatform\ClientNative\CrashReporter.cs:line 93

For reference I self-host a server with my friends and I started crashing out of no where so we updated the mods but it didnt seem to fix the issue at hand

[fallow surge]

Send client-main log, and what do you do before crash?

[sterile breach]

Would you like me to just dm it to you or send it in this chat?
And I was AFK at the time but my friends were smelting iron however it crashed a bunch today already while they were working on smelting and I was trying to cut down a tree.

[fallow surge]

This chat

[sterile breach]

i was AFK for about an hour after it crashed as well

1 sec

Sorry i though I posted the wrong file

or do you just want the log of the part that had the crash?

[fallow surge]

Do you have a drum fron instrumetns mod in your inventory?

Or music box

[sterile breach]

i know we have a few on tool racks but I didnt and we have a music box placed down but I dont believe anybody had any in their inventories

[fallow surge]

Is crash reproducable or random?

[sterile breach]

its happened 4-5 times today alone

[fallow surge]

So, any steps to reproduce it?

[sterile breach]

I'll try starting my world up again and see what everybody is doing and see if we can maybe try to find the cause to reproduce

[fallow surge]

Btw, it is most ptobably not related to CO and related to it mods

Try holding stuff with tongs

[sterile breach]

what is it mods? the instruments?

[fallow surge]

No idea

[sterile breach]

my friend did take damage like a second before the craft but I'll try to figure out if its reproducable.

it seems to crash now whenever one of my friends joins.

this is his inventory when I (host) crash

[sterile breach]

my friend was just forging an iron ingot but it happens specifically when one of my other friends joins for some reason.

[fallow surge]

It is somehow related to holding hot stuff in tongs, accodring to logs. Cant help you here further. Try asking in https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/454909656230526976 or first reliably reproducing the bug and then trying removing mods and see if you cant reproduce it anymore.

[sterile breach]

Thanks for the help and I'll try some new things on a new world to see if we can re-produce

[celest lagoon]

I'm seeing a client crash with "Don't know how to instantiate collectible behavior of class 'CombatOverhaul:Armor' did you forget to register a mapping?" when joining a self-hosted LAN server. Similar behavior with the Bullseye mod oddly enough. Is this a known issue?

[hollow pasture]

You shouldn't have both CO and bullseye installed at the same time

[celest lagoon]

Yeah i've tried with both removing it in between

Both produce a "did you forget to register a mapping" error

[fallow surge]

Remove duplicated archives, clear cache, restart the game, the usual stuff.

[celest lagoon]

It's a fresh install on the client-side, i'll try to clear the cache out on the host side

Ahh - I think I might know what it could be. It's my friend joining who's installed all the mods without every having started a single player world.

[fallow surge]

Send clinet main logs

[celest lagoon]

Same behavior after cleared cache server side and they loaded into a single player world. They didn't get a popup about needing to remap stuff which is odd?

Getting the client main log now

[fallow surge]

Redownload overhaul lib, clear cache, restart the game (all on client side)

[celest lagoon]

I saw that - seems overhaul lib failed to load. Odd.

Trying it now

[fallow plaza]

the mod has model-accurate collisions, you need to actually see the quarterstaff touch the guy or it doesn't count as a hit

it takes some getting used to but once you are, you can abuse that fact to multi-hit crowds from 2 or 3 blocks away with polearms

[celest lagoon]

That seemed to do it! Thank you!!

[hollow pasture]

Btw Maltiez, I've gotten multiple reports from people on a server I play on that the overhaul lib just simply isn't appearing in people's modlists after downloading it using the 1-click install button on the website

[fallow surge]

Cant fix it. They need to do the standard steps starting from restarting the game.

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, I'm not sure why it's that mod specifically though. Issue seems to persist after restart and only manual installation by dragging files has seemed to work. Appreciate the awesome work you're doing though!

[royal forge]

not enough to make sabre :((

[upper ermine]

Can I crank up my mouse sensitivity and whirlwind like a Diablo barbarian?

[upper ermine]

Before I go there and suffer has CO pulled any shenanigans I should know about with the ||mad crow|| like it did with the ||eidolon||?

[hushed scarab]

It does stuff to them?

[upper ermine]

You want to hit the eye for the former, I’m asking about the latter

[broken cloak]

hey @fallow surge, im just wondering your reasoning behind removing immunity frames for entities in OverhaulLib. is it necessary in order for combat overhaul to work properly? thanks!

[hollow pasture]

It was causing an issue with the shotgun style weapons where only 1 pellet would do damage because of I-frames

Is there any plan to reduce the action speed or movement speed penalty of Blackguard armor due to the clearly lesser armored right hand side?

[broken cloak]

that makes sense. thanks for the help!

[thin wing]

isn't it already less than plate armor?

[hollow pasture]

No, it's actually statistically worse

Forlorn hope armor is far better than iron plate though because it has almost no penalties

[thin wing]

oh yeah guess there was that armor rebalance

[small tapir]

am i stupid or is that the exact same stats with less durability for the blackard stuff

[hollow pasture]

It is, that's why I said it's just objectively worse

[small tapir]

ah

sorry i was expecting that to be more than just durability

[fallow surge]

Armory has sabres

[mighty nacelle]

ahhh ok apologies

[mighty nacelle]

how long ago did you add them? sorry I haven't played vintage story in a bit

ah, march

nice

[fallow surge]

Dont rememeber, some time ago

[mighty nacelle]

I noticed that you updated Bullseye. Is that just for better bows without CO? If I install CO, does that mean I don't need Bullseye?

[fallow surge]

In description is said that these two mods are incompatible

[mighty nacelle]

am I blind?

ohhhhh it says that in the combat overhaul description

[analog hearth]

Hey so I just started playing my world again that was from before your combat lib update, and waited a few days for stuff to update but now my pickaxe and axe don't use their CO animations, any idea what could cause it?

it was working fine before the combat lib update, and I waited until xskills updated and all that but it uses vanilla now for some reason

[fallow surge]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/toolsanimations

[analog hearth]

oh I didnt realize its a seperate mod now thanks ❤️

[dusty plaza]

@fallow surge i just downloaded your mod, and armory, along with others, and it is my first time playing VS. I am unable to hit things (ex cant stab with spear and cant hit with stone mace). I also seem to have a lot of errors in my log and idk what they mean. I am guessing it might be CO causing the lack of animations but idk. could i pm you my logs?

[final garden]

@fallow surge I finally had some time to work on the helmets again and made this. I might've pushed it too far from the base art style. Just wanted to ask if this works for a bronze helmet, and if you wanted me to make entirely new designs for the other types of bronze or stick with the vanilla game's approach where it's just a colour swap? PS: I modelled it after a signifer helmet, and I understand if you'd rather I do a different design, since it's not entirely clear whether roman sign-bearers actually wore the mask as well or not, but it has been found on battlefields before.

[uneven trench]

couldn't this mod be better as an built-in config tho?

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/22768

[austere phoenix]

that looks so cool. It would be aswsome to have visor helmets that give you a bonus if you flip the visor down but your vision is impaired like in kingdom come delivernce

[small tapir]

attack no keyframes apparently

[fallow surge]

Update overhaul lib

[small tapir]

oh fr

ty

sorry my setup has an old version of overhaul because my group got it like two weeks ago and only just got firearms and i forgot to update it i guess

[upper ermine]

Any thoughts on letting us make lead bullets for the sling? Or use better materials for the construction of or at least the ammo for the lower tier crossbows or firearms?

I just want an excuse to use dual pistols

[small tapir]

metal sling bullets would be amazing

[tribal latch]

Do prot level from different layer stack or is best taken

[uneven trench]

stacks

it stacks

there's a balance sheet somewhere here

[hollow pasture]

I'm pretty sure we both used the exact same reference image when I started fidgeting about with this idea 🤣
Looks badass to me though, I'm personally impressed

[final garden]

Hah, thanks. Are we both actively working on the same thing? If so, we could coordinate and that way I don't make something you're working on, etc

[hollow pasture]

As far as I know, I was the first person to bounce the idea of functional visored helmets off Maltiez, but I (understandably) got the response of "Do it yourself and I'll add compatibility for it" 🤣

But I never got around to it, and to be quite frank you have done exceptionally at keeping the vanilla style

[final garden]

Yeah, I think I saw that interaction and thought "I can make some helmets"

[hollow pasture]

I kept trying to copy realistic shapes instead of reminding myself this is a block game, so my helmets didn't look quite right

[final garden]

You sent me one but I haven't had the chance to look at it yet

[hollow pasture]

Yeah, the model for the bascinet actually isn't bad in my opinion, but I lost the textures for it when I gave up 😭

I'm on spring break right now though, so I'm gonna make a few different bevor styles to add more to this (let me find my post rq)

[final garden]

Oof, well, I'll probably take a look at it soon, now that I'm reaching iron

[hollow pasture]

Here

[hollow pasture]

The message of mine I just replied to is what I hope combat overhaul eventually adds with regard to armor, but like Maltiez says "The most fun and easy part is the modeling"

[fallow surge]

Looks very nice. The problem is that such helmets were not designed to have their facial mask opened...

Hm...

Ok, fine, just add some small element to represent hinge, so at least it will be a bit more believable

You can do recolor, or you can add some minor changes to the model for different types of bronze

Openning for ears looks a bit to high

[fallow surge]

I'll wait for 1.21 where I hope inv frames will be removed from vanilla and spikes and bushes will be fixed to work without them.

[uneven trench]

damage-based inv frames?

[fallow surge]

???

[uneven trench]

nothing, just misread

[hollow pasture]

I hope they fix bushes. I accidentally ran into a bushel of them and it did so many damage ticks it flung me backwards in a comical fashion (also put me at half health)

[fallow surge]

@thin wing what do you think about https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/22373 as blackguard player, is it worth me spending time on adding compatibility for it?

[fallow surge]

What bush deals damage?

[final garden]

I agree, after making it I realized, so I'll fix that. I got the face hinge idea because I saw lots of images where the flaps and mask both had hinges connecting to the helmet, but I couldn't tell if that was a real historical feature or a more modern convenience

[uneven trench]

wouldn't it be better to find a hacky way to add back invul frames for non-weapons?

saw latest Overhaul Lib basically turning off damage for the spikes and cactus

[fallow surge]

Right now patch that removes inv frames is very simple. I dont really want to do some complicated shenanigans to a feature that will be removed anyway.

[fallow surge]

You if you make such patches I can incorporate it to the lib

[hollow pasture]

Outside mod bushes. I'm not home right now to give specifics

[thin wing]

I have no opinion since I have not used that mod

[fallow surge]

There are screenshots

[broken cloak]

author of the i-frames reimplementing mod here. i made that patch because players on a server i dev for had been complaining about getting torn apart by modded berry bushes, hot water, wolves, etc. we also discovered that things like tailor's delight stitching awls were being abused by spam/autoclicking since CO doesn't account for them and i-frames were gone so people could just autoclick enemies and shred through them/knock them 15 blocks away by clicking fast enough. we also saw people use the lack of i-frames to completely cheese the eidolon by having a friend spam punch them into the corner of the arena and skip the fight entirely, so i just decided to patch i-frames back in for simplicity's sake

[final garden]

Wildcraft: Fruits and Nuts adds some, like raspberry bushes

[hollow pasture]

That's the exact one. It always throws some error when I use it too

Seems to not affect anything though

[final garden]

I love the mod, but it can be kind of buggy

It screws with vinegar and wine in a way that conflicts with expanded cooking, too, unfortunately. Like, I can't age any base game alcohol, only the fruits and nuts ones

I actually sort of got into modding this game specifically because I wanted to fix that conflict

[tawdry condor]

@fallow surge is it possible for you to make an auto-patch for the healing mod? Just found out that Wildcraft healing items are still instant

[fallow surge]

Probably

[upper ermine]

Thoughts on shield + a mace or hammer or other blunt weapon, vs the quarterstaff, for a malefactor that goes caving a lot?

[small tapir]

depending how well you can fence/block the mace shield is probably better since you get attack speed from malefactor

qstick is good too tho if you’re less confident since it has some more range, along with some aoe

and the block is better

[fallow plaza]

some light feedback after ~60 hours of playing with the mod:

armory's weapon variety is excellent! plenty of options and there doesn't seem to be a best-in-slot option (except maybe the steel poleaxe). i do wish some of the weapons were accessible earlier (greatsword etc), but i understand the reasoning behind gating more weapons behind later metal tiers. gives you an additional reason to keep progressing: plays well with vanilla. good design ultimately

combat sometimes feels a little floaty even with high manipulation speed. i think a lot of this can be chalked up to the animations, but here are some ideas to potentially improve the feel of combat (a grab bag, not all intended as must-haves):

• implement animation canceling (possibly only during certain frames of the animation, like the windup or the follow-through)
• implement a combo system: instead of the weapon snapping back to the center of your screen after an attack, you would be able to smoothly chain attacks together with compatible animations. for example, the greatsword left and right sweeps -- it should be quicker to swing the sword left after you've already swung right
• implement some kind of riposte. animation speed bonus after successfully parrying an attack?
• add a small amount of screen shake in addition to the hit stun to add a little extra oomph to the attacks (maybe more with blunt and slashing attacks and less with piercing attacks)

the mod is a little lacking in player feedback and clarity. some comments there:

• damage types, locational damage, and the new armor system need handbook entries
• locational damage feels semi-random. maybe add damage location to the damage log tab in chat
• enemies should have their damage types displayed in block info
• relying on block info for enemy resistances is ok, but a system to more naturally show players resistances would be cool. maybe different audio cues and/or differently colored flashes when enemies take damage instead of the usual red?

[graceful kernel]

So what exactly does this mod change in the main game?
:o Ooohh

[final garden]

How's this look? I tried using the reddish orange as a texture for the hinge, but it usually just made it look like a weird hairline or something. Also tried the more iron coloured buckles that appear in bronze armour on the plates, but it stood out way too much on the head, regardless of if the hinge was a different object. This method works, but I'm a little bugged by the fact that it's a separate object and not just a texture on the mask itself or something. I also lowered both the ears, and the eye slots, because I realized I had the eye slots one pixel too high (based on the visors from the copper helmet)

[brave canyon]

Oh man... I saw this mod and I was immediately curious if it would work with CO and I was sad when it doesn't. Personally I think a good friend of mine would LOVE it, so even if you might not have the time to patch it, I might see about doing it myself later too :P

What's really of interest is the additional special weapons, I think that's just kinda sick, haha. I can't really get enough of nice looking varieties of weapons, and I love when you added Sabers to armory as well.

[final garden]

Realized that the eyes were in fact, not placed incorrectly, so I put those back, and I also tried messing with the side flaps to look a little more accurate to the real helmet designs, where the flaps sort of covered more of the chin

@tribal latch I'm actively looking for feedback, so if you'd like to say something (even if you think it's mean, especially so, really), then please do!

[tribal latch]

is it possible to give it a nose?

[upper ermine]

Is there no steel heavy shield?

[tribal latch]

its usually where the reinforcement peice is

[final garden]

I possibly could, but I avoided the nose because I don't think Seraph have noses with the game's artstyle? I gotta double-check

[tribal latch]

its more structural

even on barrel helmets you can still see this kind of cross or center reinforcements\

[final garden]

I was basing it on the signifer helmet

Which the "visor" was just a mask

[tribal latch]

arent those like ritualistic ?

humm actually yeah serraph dont have nose

[final garden]

It's not entirely clear, from what I looked up. Basically, people thought they were purely for parades, but they've found so many of them, and they even found some in battlefields, so they're starting to think there were indeed used even in battle, but only by the people carrying the battle standards, since intimidation was absolutely part of warfare

[final garden]

Still, the biggest reason was just that there's no nose on a Seraph, so I didn't want to give it a structural nose

[upper ermine]

||It looks like something I'd hold up while shouting about abandoning my humanity||

[final garden]

Even though part of me really wanted to, so that it looked more like the real deal

[upper ermine]

Has anyone played around with the various weapons and come to conclusions about what their intended niches are? Like the Warhammer vs the mace, or the pole hammer (or whatever it’s called- it uses the same part as a Warhammer but with a longer handle)? The ones that have classes which specialize in them are pretty obvious.

[fallow surge]

warhammer is a steel mace, polehammer is a steel club

[hollow pasture]

Warhammer is just the steel version of the mace

🤣

@fallow surge any chance of adding this bevor (and a seperate maille standard) into armory?

Apologies for the bad photos, my wifi is still out from a recent storm

Btw all textures are totally placeholder and were literally a product of me just clicking and dragging to a vaguely flat metal area

Constructive criticism welcome!

The bevor would serve as a stylish face protection to add plate tier defense values to the plate layer of neck, but remove the ability to wear any maille armor that covers the face or head. The maille standard would fill the gap left in the neck maille slot

Here's a better diagram of how it would fill the slots; Red being the bevor and yellow being the standard

I'll see if I can learn enough myself to mess with all the plate armor values and add that "ignorechance" I keep yammering about so that plate layers truly become the most protective one unless bypassed

[fallow surge]

Tbh I dont really like it, it looks lime more as a cloth mask rather then bevor, not sure how it could be fixed.

[nocturne shore]

Was there any major changes in last 3 weeks that could cause issues when updating this mod?

I seen some discussion about better xskills compatibility & im wondering if its safe to update for existing world

[fallow surge]

Hinge look out of place tbh, may be it is ok to get rid of it... Or make it visible only when mask is opened, like having this cuboid on the inner side of the mask. Ears openings look better. I think this helmet looks good.

[fallow surge]

It is safe, just update all the mods and get overhaul lib

And clear cache and restart the game

[final garden]

Yeah, I think I agree. Hinge doesn't seem quite right. Not entirely sure how to make it work, though. Of the ones I've seen in references, they stay pretty simple and small, really hard to see

[fallow surge]

It is just when mask is opened it looks like it is floating, may be make the axis of rotation to be the inner corner of the mask cuboid, so it clips into helmet a bit

[fallow surge]

You can use other seraph models to see eyes position

[final garden]

I could also just extend its structure a bit more, probably. You can juuuust barely see it when the hinge opens

Like, looking up, you can see it

So maybe with some tweaking it'll look better

Here I made it just big enough to stick out through the other side

[fallow surge]

That looks better, now make it to be not visiable from outside when closed

[final garden]

Works! Turns out I accidentally already did that

Accidentally moved the position instead of the scale

[fallow surge]

try using other backdrop shape to see if eyes align with slits

I took all three of them, put into VSMC folder and specified seraph textures, so I can easily add them

[final garden]

Hmm, You can see the eyes, but the top of the eyes. It's a bit weird

Helmet looks a lot better like this, though, personally. But! If I move it down by a pixel, it'll probably fit better

[fallow surge]

Open seraph shape, add seraph texture to it and save, so you can see eyes better

[wind forge]

Is it intended that Chain has Leather as repair cost or is that one of the Tailor mods messing with the recipe?

[fallow surge]

Not intended, probably a bug

[buoyant tiger]

Hi, I have a question regarding the armor rework. I noticed that Scale armor is both cheaper and better than chainmail. Does chainmail offer anything that scale can't? Does it have something to do with this panel? I don't really get this panel haha. Also what is Manipulation speed? Is it a rustbound thing?

[fallow surge]

Chanmail occupies only the middle layer, so you can wear it under other armor

Scale should not be cheaper, they should have same material cost

[wind forge]

Threw everything else except CO and extensions out , still Leather on the repair recipe.

[small tapir]

oh wait is the cache involved with the projectiles not working at all thing

[fallow surge]

It is xskills

update it

[buoyant tiger]

I see. Thanks! Can I ask another question, will the stats if I wear both chain and plate be additive? Does it work like this?

[fallow surge]

They stack

[final garden]

Hmph, I cannot seem to get this blasted texture to appear

[fallow surge]

"textures": {
        "seraph": "entity/humanoid/seraph-naked"
    },

[final garden]

That's what I got, and still no bueno

Clearly, I'm missing something

[fallow surge]

Dunno then, may be you didnt setup default path for textures

[final garden]

Don't think so

Yeah, that was it

Thanks

[buoyant tiger]

So if I make Iron, I get like 24 movespeed penalty and 64 hunger rate if I wear both chain and plate sets (helm body legs), but i get like 8, 10, 6 protection from pierce slash blunt respectively

[final garden]

Alright, so it definitely fits the eyes better when it's lower

I also had to shrink the side details because they were not well aligned

That look good to you?

[fallow surge]

Yes

[final garden]

Sweet

Though I am wondering if I might be better off going back to the old chin design so that the side flaps aren't so squished

Hm. Not sure

[fallow surge]

Chicks plate should almost close at chin

[final garden]

Yeah, I'll just suffer the sadly squished folds by the eyes

[fallow surge]

I prefer this

[final garden]

It does look better

[fallow surge]

As Tyron loves screenshake (called tybrations inside the team), so I hate it... But I still added it to melee weapons and bows (configurable). Hope to not receive backlash...

[sinful panther]

there's def better alternatives

[uneven trench]

screenshakes are good for indicating is something went well, also where does it occur?

[fallow surge]

On entity hit and bow release

Should be the same as vanilla

[uneven trench]

ogh, that'd be a dizzying headache for the two armed weapons

[fallow surge]

why?

I usually play with all screenshake turned off in game settings btw

[uneven trench]

entity hit

anyway uh

[fallow surge]

You can turn this off in game settings anyway

Or reduce it

[uneven trench]

i think i reduced mine

anyway, how hard is it to make a movement lock for 2-handed weapons?

[fallow surge]

It is hard

There are 8 directions and only 4 movement directions

[uneven trench]

movement lock is literally just preventing the player from accessing 3 of thr 4 movement directions

[fallow surge]

There are 8 directions in general case, not 4

[uneven trench]

ah

as much as a nice no need for micro-mouse adjustments because you wanted a sideslash but you flicked downward and now you do a lower stab

[fallow surge]

I can add alternative control scheme with movement direction controlling attack directions... Will take some time to implement though.

[sharp stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/incredibilis-gif-18159094

very nice though

[final garden]

Thanks!

[upper ermine]

I could swear there was some heavier steel shield, and I just misremembering due to being super tired at the time?

there's a light shield, and then there's the wooden shield you can make with a steel boss, is that it?

[upper ermine]

Maybe I was thinking of an iron shield and I was just so sleep deprived that I thought of it as steel?

||iirc it had a boss and the loop, and two plates... if that is the case, is there any heavier steel shield or just the light steel shield?||

[hollow pasture]

As far as I know there is only the light one

[upper ermine]

Fever-dream it is, then

[uneven trench]

you could make that a reality

[fallow surge]

Done, now you can control directions via movement instead of mouse

[uneven trench]

so how do you do directional attacks now?

[fallow surge]

If you change CO setting for alternative control scheme you can use your movement keys to select attack direction

[uneven trench]

o

[uneven trench]

it's no "lock attack direction to be the attack direction" but it helps a lot in battles

[amber leaf]

hi there...randomly i just got this error now. Cant load the mod anymore. https://pastebin.com/qwALjQVg

[shadow vale]

I've been playing for a few hours with this mod(and firearms/crossbows/armory...) and I love it but there is something that I don't like/it makes some things too op or broken(literally broken, you can dye easily).

Now, with this mod, you don't have hit limit anymore. Both players and creatures can get hunderds of hits/minute without restrictions and this is causing some issues.

1. You can hit any creature with an spear like in Minecraft Bedrock, with no cooldown.
   -# I like this if it does less damage when you don't fully "charge" the next attack. Like, if it's still with the animation of the first hit, the second hit deals less damage. Then it's cool.
2. If you as a player step on a spiky block like the berry bushed from Wildcraft you'll get tenths on hits per seconds and you'll dye in like 2 or 3 seconds.
   -# This may cause issues with other blocks or mods. Those blocks should do almost no damage so if you get hit multiple times you don't dye isntantly. But I don't think thatll be possible,

And now a little question related to combat mechanics. When you use an spear you've 2 modes. High hit and low hit. I've trying to find a pattern to control when you do one or the other but I cound't find it so... when will the seraph do a high attack and when will it do a low attack?

[gentle bane]

You can already hit the same entity multiple times in vanilla, I sometimes got 4 hits on a falling bear
Mod interaction that isn't acconted for I guess

idk what do you mean by the last question, it depends on what last direction you moved your cursor in (up or down in this case)

[fallow surge]

Send server-main log

[shadow vale]

I've never had this issue with any block that deals damage but with CO I'm getting hit a lot of times per second. Maybe what you said, incompatibility, idk

[shadow vale]

Some times when I press left click it'll make a low hit and the next time it'll make a high hit... and I'm not sure why. I just want to know if there is a way to force low/high hits

[gentle bane]

ye it's just mods interacting

[gentle bane]

by looking up/down

[shadow vale]

Yes and no... if I look at a wall then yes, if I point to the upper block it'll make a high attack and if I look an the bottom block it'll make a low attack. But when I run into a fight with some drifters it stared hitting the way it wanted.
If the only thing that triggers the type of attacks is looking up or down then it may be because if the drifters height

They are short so maybe some of the attacks reached the breaking point between high and low attacks

Well, doubts solved. Thanks a lot ^^

[hollow pasture]

It'd be best for you to make a flint mace, otherwise those drifters are gonna feel unnecessarily strong

[small tapir]

rock on stick >>> like a copper spear even

[amber leaf]

do i need the Bullseye mod when i also use CombatOverhaul?

[wispy pumice]

Doesn't the bullseye mod state it's incompatibility with CO on it's webpage?

Hmm, nope. Or at least not anymore.

[fallow surge]

It was on CO page, now on Bullseye too

[swift hollow]

how do i get the Armor to work?
i still have Vanilla armor system?

[tribal latch]

just move them to the new slot?

[fallow surge]

Then mod is not properly loaded

[swift hollow]

the slots are not there. .

[swift hollow]

ive reinstalled the mod already, it didnt do anything?

[fallow surge]

Have you restarted the game?

[swift hollow]

yes, many times.

ive had the mod from day one.

*just updated the mod as i saw a new update so ill test and see if this changes anything.

[fallow surge]

it is installation problem, sorry I just so tiered of solving this issue for so many ppl each time, that I just cant make my self do it again. Just do the staff from CO description and make sure you have dependencies isntalled.

[oak solar]

Sorry to interrupt, but I'm having a bit of an issue -- I have both Combat Overhaul and The Remnants installed and they work together nicely, but I'm getting the bug where the traits are all wrong, for example my yeoman, a bow focused class, has two traits from CO that make it almost impossible for them to use bows. Is there something I can do in CO to fix it or am I better off talking to the dev of the remnants?

[fallow surge]

Better to talk to the dev of remnants.

[swift hollow]

what staff from CO??

i should have all the dependencies installed?

[oak solar]

alright, thanks!

[sacred shadow]

This is heat

What program are you using to make models like that?

[swift hollow]

these are now the only mods i have and its still not working.
ive reinstalled CO, ive restarted the game but nothing works. . .

the only thing i haven't done is "clear the cache" as i dont know how?

do i delete the Cache folder or something in the folder??

[final garden]

Thanks! I'm using the Vintage Story Modeler

[sacred shadow]

I will 100% be making models on that

[swift hollow]

well F me. . . i broke something now. .

the directional attack syestem is stuck at "UP" and dose not go away if i have nothing in my hands. . .

[sacred shadow]

Now I got figure out how to make it combat overhaul compatible

[swift hollow]

i still cant get the armor to work and now i have this thing stuck on my screen. . ..

[upper ermine]

Hundreds of hits/minute

oh please please add bare fisted monk stuff like in Way of the Square Fist

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-_ZeD40Rg8A&pp=ygUNS2Vuc2hpcm8gdGFuaw%3D%3D

[shadow vale]

A lot of things can be done but I a lot of little issues may appear too

I'ld like nunchakus

https://tenor.com/view/bruce-lee-nunchucks-gif-23400696

[upper ermine]

Omg with the talk of mouae duration altering attacks that reminds me of that old old old old old 2d fighter game where you moved your mouse to control your sword

[swift hollow]

still nothing works and now more is broken. . .

[gentle bane]

I was told few times that co doesn't use precise hitboxes but rather a chance to hit like in vanilla, is this the case or are hitboxes accurate?
Below is co spreadsheet that ppl were referring to.

[fallow surge]

For entities hitting player this damage model is used, for player hitting entities accurate collision is used

There is just no way I'm remaking all the entities attack animations and AI to let them use accurate colliders of player

[gentle bane]

I was told that me hitting them on the head 90% of the time is no skill but cheating so they meant most likely player v player

[fallow surge]

Player vs player is using accurate colliders

[swift hollow]

are crossbows/firearms bugged in first person??

[delicate ocean]

that means a sufficiently skilled player can consistently hit the neck?

[fallow surge]

Yes

Cant hit face though, cause there is not collider for it

[fallow surge]

Lower hands hieght to 0 value, dont use player model replacers

[swift hollow]

how?
and what is player model replacers?

ohh, i dont have any mods like that. .

these are the only mods i have

[fallow surge]

Send client-main logs please

[fallow surge]

remove bows mod, it is not needed

[fallow surge]

In game settings

[hearty reef]

@fallow surge I had an idea for more arrows for well... your more arrows mod!
So you already have the default arrows, Barbed, Bodkin, and and Blunt right?
I had a few other ideas based on history.
Needlehead Arrows (Better piercing than Bodkin, but even worse damage)
Broadhead arrows (Better for hunting large game animals, but not as effective on smaller animals)
Barbed Broadhead (Extremely powerful)
Harpoon Arrowhead (Large damage but slow draw time)
Field Point arrows (A cheaper, training arrow)
Bolas Arrows (Stuns animals and or players via rope)
Special/Tipped arrows
IE
Fire arrows, Poison arrows, smoke arrows, explosive arrows, whistling arrows, etc
y'know. all these

[fiery rune]

We've already talked about other kinds of arrows

[fallow surge]

Please try making you messages compact and not add extra new lines. Huge messages like this makes it hard to follow and scrol the chat

[fiery rune]

No

[hearty reef]

this makes it harder to read for me personally but i guess everyone is different

I still think Broadhead would be interesting, as Broadhead arrows are some of the deadliest arrows ever made in the real world

[fiery rune]

How to implement them in the game and what is the point of using them?

[hearty reef]

Well poison, fire, explosive, smoke, etc. those might be hard to impliment

but things like field point, harpoon arrows, broadheads, and needleheads would be easy to implement, as they would use similar code to the other arrows.

The only one that is debatable is harpoon as the slower drawtime might be harder to code in

[fiery rune]

Adding something oneshooting that doesn't require the spending of quality resources or doesn't have serious disadvantages like firearms breaks the balance

This could be compensated by new kinds of bows that could use new kinds of arrows, but no new bows are planned either, as Maltiez has already written about

[hearty reef]

which is why broadheads wouldn't be THAT much more powerful than any of the other arrows, but would still be more powerful.

It could be expensive to make. IE, perhaps Broadheads require more of a process to make.

In the real world, barbed broadheads aren't easy to make

these are what barbed broadhead arrows look like

they are like a combination of barbed arrows, and bodkin arrows.

they were made for piercing armor, but also causing heavy bleeding and being very difficult to remove

[fiery rune]

The question remains the same, why do we need arrows that will differ from each other by a couple of units of damage, and will categorically differ in the cost of creation?

VS doesn't have some sort of elaborate damage system or layered combat system to implement all these arrows with serious differences

[hearty reef]

some people use mods with really powerful animals or enemies like Elephantidae and stuff. It would be nice to be able to take down big game easier

[tawdry condor]

there's no bleed damage in game so there's no god damn point in adding those

[hearty reef]

higher damage

[fiery rune]

So are you suggesting to make arrows that looked appropriate not with Combat Overhaul, but with animal mods with from other authors?

[tawdry condor]

isn't that like

the whole point?

something that you shouldn't be able to easily take down?

[hearty reef]

idk. I have a server where most of the players are end game (way beyond steel) and we are at like, SwordZ aithril. with guns at 5x damage and crossbows at 3x damage.

We kinda want aithril weapons but swordZ doesnt have aithril weapons so rip

[swift hollow]

thats way to complex with the level of tech we have in this game.

[hearty reef]

this game is adding steampower, and water power. This was confirmed

so the tech is gonna get better

[swift hollow]

100% Confirmed!?!?!?
HELL YEAAAA!!!!

lol

[hearty reef]

yeah

[swift hollow]

ive been wanting a better end game system!!
steam would fit into that perfectly!!

something like the Create mod

[hearty reef]

in a old interview they stated initially 1.21 was supposed to be a expansion to the tech in the game, adding steam power and waterwheels and stuff.

But this got pushed to 1.22 because of a server wide vote where people wanted 1.21 to be the fleshing out of 1.20 features like the beehive kiln and stuff

so we are two major updates away from waterwheels and steam and stuff

unless it gets pushed further

but it was confirmed its planned to be added

in their own words, 1.21 is now going to be a update to get rid of a lot of the jankiness in the 1.20 update and 1.22 will be a tech expansion

so if things like barbed broadheads are too OP? just lock em behind steam power when that gets added lol

im not 100% sure but I think waterwheels are going to either be pre-windmill or post-windmill

and steam power is going to be post-steel?

Im assuming steam will require boilers and stuff, which is either going to require iron or steel. more than likely steel.

@swift hollow supposedly 1.21 is also adding minecarts for mine transportation

based on what I heard

[upper ermine]

||steel arrows and construction materials for all crossbows||

[upper ermine]

They pushed back steam power and waterwheels for changing the color of clay 🗿

[hearty reef]

yes lol

[final garden]

What are you trying to make compatible?

[sacred shadow]

Armor mostly

[final garden]

Ah, yeah. I'm not super familiar with the code side of that, but if you want to make sure they work, a good place to start is looking at the way Maltiez does the JSON files for the armour and building off of that framework. That's how I figured out how to make weapons compatible, anyway

[sacred shadow]

Where can I find the json files by Maltiez

I’d think weapons would be harder to do

With all the types and animations

Oh he is the poster 💀

I just gotta dig through mods

[final garden]

Yeah, just dig through the mod files

[wispy pumice]

Bullseye is a part of overhaul, you can remove the bullseye packs.
The game will still load from folders.

[wispy pumice]

The cache folder will be hidden within the appdata folder on your computer

[swift hollow]

ya, i did that.
i figured it out.

the problem is Firearms doesn't have bullseye and thats what i wanted.

[upper ermine]

My resident idiots friends are determined to run through my lead and gunpowder reserves fighting literally infinite amounts of enemies rather than just using a two handed weapon and swinging their view as they swing their weapon, please help me berate them into understanding economics and the concept of efficiency.

cursing is encouraged

They're also determined to bring down ||The Crow|| with guns, which will involve a PAINFUL amount of missed shots that go flying off the tower into oblivion.

[thin wing]

Honestly still a lot easier than using a bow

[upper ermine]

it's such a huge waste, and arrows can be retrieved after a hit

[small tapir]

revoke their lead bullet priveledges and force them to use copper

[upper ermine]

Is that a thing?

[small tapir]

there are copper bullets

stopping them from using lead is up to you tho

[upper ermine]

Oh wow.

Now I just need to find a way to bleed them for more sulfur and saltpeter

[small tapir]

i mean saltpeter can be naturally made from urine so like

not impossible?

sulfur idk

[thin wing]

Back to the sulfur mines

Or rot a bunch of eggs lol

[upper ermine]

Does that work?

[upper ermine]

When are we getting the option to drink lots of water and generate saltpeter?

Please I'm begging the mod author

also from bird poop

[small tapir]

i've got a single .json that takes the Lant from nature's call to make saltpeter in a cooking pot

[fallow surge]

KCD2 taught me that you need corpses

for saltpeter

[small tapir]

i mean irl artifical saltpeter is just nitrates and potassiumm

[small tapir]

and this is real btw

codyslab did it too but the video isnt on yt anymore

[thin wing]

Probably not

[upper ermine]

What's a lant?

[small tapir]

piss spoilage

irl its high in nitrates, so you cook it with potash (potassium source and you get saltpeter (kno3)

[misty steppe]

Perfect for my saltpeter-less world

[small tapir]

sent you a dm

[wide kettle]

Do tools no longer have swing/swingspeed? Mine are just working like vanilla tools again, and I'm not sure if something broke or if the mod changed. I actually liked mining with swing because it was super satisfying.

[uneven trench]

standalone mod

[upper ermine]

Is the carbine the most efficient firearm for fighting deep underground?

The musket wastes too much gunpowder right?

[fallow surge]

There is this https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/1135402924290359336 thread btw

[sand folio]

do you improve your stats over time like with bow proficiency?

[lime jolt]

wait what, moving your camera while swinging has some effects? anything beyond manipulating collider locations?..

[lethal meadow]

Is monsters having high slash and pierce protection but no blunt intentional? Are clubs and maces optimal DPS in caves?

[thin wing]

Yes

[hushed scarab]

^

[thin wing]

Wildlife has high blunt protection and no pierce protection so you wanna spear wolves and bears

Slash is a middleground that's moderately protected by both

[hushed scarab]

My greatsword…

No more greatswordmaxxing

[thin wing]

At the point of iron and higher slash starts being ideal cuz the only stuff that'll resist it are the real high tier enemies

Or if you're a blackguard

At steel damage types basically stop mattering

[lethal meadow]

I mean high tier enemies are the ones you're worried about...

[sand folio]

do you improve your stats over time?

[thin wing]

That's fair, if you're playing commoner or tailor you should really try to use what the enemy is weak to

Otherwise i usually just use whatever the class I'm playing is good with cuz the 30% faster attack speed mostly makes up for the, at worst, 50% damage penalty if the enemy is strong to it

Swords usually have other benefits too to make up for slash kinda being meh as a damage type

I mostly find them easier to use due to their length compared to bash weapons. Piercing is even longer but their damage is pretty terrible.

Greatswords especially have like 3 lightyears of reach and can cleave through a lot of enemies in a single swing

[lethal meadow]

Didn't know the penalty is 50% at worst.

Might get a sword then thanks.

Though steel unlocks warhammers....

[misty steppe]

I gave up using blunts because the terrible range, now bringing a quiver of javelins, a halberd, a sword for drifters and a normal spear for the occasional wildlife.
Now if anyone do have a recommendation on a good range blunts (this sounds so wrong lol), i would thank you.

[thin wing]

guns do blunt damage funnily

the quarterstaff also has decent range

[thin wing]

the warhammer is actually just a reskinned mace and the polehammer is actually a reskinned club

this all being said, i play blackguard

[misty steppe]

.....I didn't use it because i felt its a little too silly and another reason i somehow forgot (probably classes).
Man i really need a mod that can make you learn traits.

[thin wing]

so there's very little reason for me to use anything other than swords

[misty steppe]

Same here, using a bow genuinely makes me sick with blackguard

[thin wing]

especially since I have a habit of rushing iron at which point tier 4 slashing can handle most things and a blackguard with a greatsword is a goddamn blender

[misty steppe]

Throwing javelins are still nice though

[thin wing]

[misty steppe]

Oh man i gotta try that lol, just hit iron age literally 5 hours ago

[thin wing]

if you're still in the stone age i recommend a mace or club (personal preference) and a spear for hunting, past that use whatever your class is best with

falxes are also kinda dope because they do a tier higher than other weapons of their material combined with slash being the "jack of all trades" damage type means an iron or meteoric iron falx has a high enough tier very little resists it

to my knowledge a steel falx is resisted by literally nothing so hilariously there isn't really a reason to use a war hammer outside aesthetics

[misty steppe]

I feel the range are stupid short though, although that might just be me

Really need to be in grappling range

[thin wing]

the one-handed weapons all have shorter range than vanilla where your one-handed sword had like 2 meters of range so yeah

it does make kiting a bit harder but you can get used to it

[misty steppe]

I mean sabres are still quite ranged as far as i tried it for

[thin wing]

or you can just use a greatsword and have like almost 4 blocks of range in a giant arc

I have no experience with sabers yet alas

[misty steppe]

Lmao i wanna try that.
Sabers are good but the damage tier is lower by one than any other melee on the tier. Probably due to the range, but yeah its quite nice for a slight caving since you can off hand a torch. Any lower though and it does nothing.

[thin wing]

ah fancy

so they're like the opposite of falxes

[misty steppe]

seems to be

[graceful kernel]

So wtf is Combat Overhaul and what exactly does it change?

[thin wing]

it's an overhaul mod, and it overhauls combat

hope that helps

[graceful kernel]

Not even close.

[thin wing]

not sure how to explain it better than the mod page does

adds active blocking, parrying for some weapons/shields, and makes melee combat based on hitboxes (you need to actually hit the enemy with your sword to hit them) instead of hitscan like vanilla

also changes armor to be a lot more complex and allow for mix-n-matching and layering

[graceful kernel]

There it is.

Hm, wonder if Blackguard Additions is compatible...

[thin wing]

last i heard, no

since someone was talking about trying to make a blackguard additions compatibility patch

[graceful kernel]

Damn.

[woven pasture]

I have patches for armor, claymore and warhammer I made for myself. Its a bit janky - inner layers clip through armor (I used vanity mod to fix that), claymore position is off a bit, but otherwise works fine. No idea if I done it correctly, as I started learning vs modding 3 days ago just for this, but it works

[fallow surge]

with compatibiltiy with melee weapons

[fallow surge]

I was talking about it, then I get frustrated by bow model and lost interest in animating it, then I tried looking for the author in discord but haven't found them, so now I just totally lost interest in making it compatible.

[thin wing]

naruhodo

[white bear]

As far as this mod goes what's the difference between the recursive bow and the longbow

[fallow surge]

You can always try them out in creative

[sand folio]

do you improve your stats over time?

[delicate ocean]

no thats xskills

[swift hollow]

i think i found a way to make steel from Iron with this mod??

so, i tried making an Iron Great Sword but didnt know it needed 2 ingots so i let it cool in an empty Forge while i waited for the rest of my iron to finish.

when the Iron finished i reheated the sword and put it on the Anvil but it changed the item to steel Javelin's???

[uneven trench]

that's a bug

[swift hollow]

i know.

[fallow surge]

I see no way CO can affect this, it is other mod's or vanilla bug

CO just uses regular json for this stuff

[swift hollow]

ahh ok, so maybe its another mod.

still very odd as i have no idea what mod could change what a forged item can be?

[uneven trench]

you can always binary search

[hollow tulip]

@fallow surge

just the idea i had before for armor remodels ig

but yeah this is from "Kanahaku`s (Not Only) Spear Expansion "

[hollow pasture]

Personally I find this concept of "kastenbrust" pretty cool, but it definitely seems a little dramatic in their mod

[hollow tulip]

the most dramatic part was temporalsteel

aka a stronger version of steel

[hollow pasture]

I meant how pronounced the actual kastenbrust shape was, but also the last time I tried that mod it wasn't updated to the new CO balance

[soft oriole]

how do you put weapons down on the ground or on tool racks?

nvm figured out

just need to hold G and right click where

[faint plover]

I have no log of confirmation but sometimes the red message displaying combat overhaul is not compatible with immersive first person doesn't appear, it seems random
I ve had it happen to me, and some dude got hit with it, couldn't understand why animations weren't working

Just wanna drop that out there, just in case

[upper ermine]

Did you remap your keys?

Actually since my admin updated using mod organizer I can’t place tools outdoors for some reason… not sure why. But I can walk indoors and place them just fine.

[soft oriole]

I might have, it's the same key as the free cursor I belive

[delicate ocean]

looks accurate enough to me based on that screenshot, though i personally dislike the very angular examples, but i assume it wouldve been harder to model the other, subtle and rounded styles. the slight exaggeration in shape is also to be more visually distinctive from the normal plate in game i think

[restive vector]

Latest version of CO installed reverts the pickaxe animation to vanilla, havnt found issue with anything else. Tested with only CO and its dependency installed. Game version 1.20.7

[fallow surge]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/toolsanimations

[restive vector]

?? the animation was changed in earlier versions

[uneven trench]

animation got separated into that mod

[restive vector]

It is strange that the pickaxe is the only one to have a removed animation then?

[uneven trench]

no

you just turned off the axe's way back

or another animation overwrote it

[restive vector]

What does this mean?

[uneven trench]

axe anims are in a config

[carmine crest]

The salpeter can be made by mixing urine with other organic material which is high in nitrates like hay and letting it decompose in a damp place IIRC

There was also an interesting youtube video before modern era by CodysLab where he did this to make a black powder bomb for his mini mine

But adding peeing to the game doesnt sound like a good idea

You probably already discussed that

[uneven trench]

peeing is already in game via other mods

nature's call iirc

[small tapir]

#1260976245374582886 message i mentioned it i think

[small tapir]

no i’m like 90% it was some prepper shit about wanting to make his own bulletz

[final garden]

@fallow surge @hollow pasture Tried my hand at a houndskull / pig face helmet. As always, I'd love to hear feedback (and if you'd want me to stop messaging you about it, please let me know). This one was tricky, since I really wanted to keep a similar style to how the blackguard helmet approaches visors, but it was difficult to try and position a cube to create the point on the tip of the visor's snout. I think I was able to make something decently similar using layered cubes instead of angled ones, but I found angling the cubes just wouldn't give the right appearance

[hollow pasture]

I was trying to do this with angled cubes like you said, but the behavior would suddenly change when I typed in specific values instead of using the inaccurate slider. To me it looks good, but I'd personally simplify the top rounded part into just 1 larger shape like vanilla helmets to fit the style of the game (I know it's the style of a bascinet, but at the end of the day it's your creative choices to do whatever you please)

[fallow surge]

I would say that layering more than one cuboid does not look good, So I would try to find a way of using angled cuboids, and also try and find more suitable reference shape, like different style of visor

[final garden]

Yeah, I may just need to approach a different visor style. Ah well, no biggie

[hollow pasture]

If you find a way to do the exact work you're doing with an angled cuboid, do let me know the mysteries ways of your magic

There appears to be a bug with exoskeletons combined with plate armor where they don't make any noise when worn

I only hear my chain and gambeson, but not my plate rattling around anymore

[final garden]

If only you could switch between local and global axis in this editor... it would be easy to make the houndskull

[broken quiver]

Malefactors have Mace proficiency, but as far as I can tell there is no such thing as a Steel Mace. There is also no such thing as Hammer Proficiency. Are Steel Warhammers(and/or Polehammers) technically Maces for this purpose?

[fallow surge]

warhammer is mace and polehammer is club

[broken quiver]

Perfect, thank you!

[final garden]

[This is unrelated to the armours!]
Hmm. A friend of mine is encountering an odd problem. They are trying to update combat overhaul, but upon doing so, the crossbows and firearms were seemingly missing, with their crossbow turning into a black square. Shortly after, it crashed. They say the updated overhaul, lib, armoury, firearms, and crossbows to their newest versions

[final garden]

They decided to reverse the update, but now apparently the upward directional attack icon remains on their screen

[final garden]

Weird, but I thought somebody else had that issue... Was it you that had this issue?

Interestingly enough, I tried to join him and it updated Overhaul Lib (so he missed it), but doing that alone resulted in the UI issue appearing for me as well. I'll see if I can't find a solution later now that I have the issue replicated

[uneven trench]

you need to get all mods updated + remove cache

[hollow tulip]

bird

[rustic yacht]

Bows and throwing spears are not registering. Animation is working but dealing no damage. I had bullseye installed before combat overhaul but I disabled it before downloading combat overhaul

[mighty nacelle]

just in case, remove bullseye from your mods folder and restart the game. Also make sure you have overhaul lib.

[rustic yacht]

that worked thanks!

what are the benefits of holding spear higher

[thin wing]

Mostly just a different hitbox, can make it easier to score a headshot

[mighty nacelle]

I've found that upward strike is good for range while downward strike is good for wolves

[final garden]

Thanks! Will give it a shot when I can

[sinful panther]

gon' have to do this one without voxels

[fallow surge]

Thanks for letting me know, like I dont have enough haters already

[faint plover]

Wdym headshot?
If u melee hit different parts it does more damage?

[fallow surge]

Yes

[brave canyon]

I’m fairly certain that people who wanna hate so much that they keep harassing just have a skill issue and can’t actually fight with the system :P

[sinful panther]

dw king imma chase him down irl rn, sending 5 drones 🙏

[brave canyon]

Hahah

[faint plover]

Huuuuuuuuh
I have been enlightened

How do hitboxes work??

[brave canyon]

Yeah, I think it’s double-damage for a headshot

It’s reaaaaally good

[faint plover]

Like are nodded creatures also made for that?

[fallow surge]

You hit head or neck - you do more damage, you hit limbs - you do less, in general

[faint plover]

Modded*

[fallow surge]

Some

[sinful panther]

they'd have to be patched

[brave canyon]

Yeah, the collision boxes need to be made for them and everything

[fallow surge]

FotSA are, new Dinos series too

[brave canyon]

Ooh…

[faint plover]

Noice good to know

[fallow surge]

You get like x25 multiplier if you hit dinos eye, at least for some of them

it varies from entity to entity

[brave canyon]

Oh wow, that’s cool as hell

Hmm. Would it be possible to add like, fighting styles as alternate movesets for weapons and such?

[fallow surge]

Too much work

If I had a dedicated animator - sure

[final garden]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but if I could specify vertex locations instead of using voxels, this snout would be so easy

[sinful panther]

i ain't, you shouldn't make it square

not sure what's the wording behind it, but you should have it the same way vanilla does the forlorn hope helmet

[final garden]

Oh, yeah, I've been trying that

They're still cubes but they are angled

[fallow surge]

Not voxels though

voxels is about grid

[hollow pasture]

To get the Hounskull shape he's going for, you have to rotate the cuboid on 2 axis, but for some reason the VS model creator tweaks out when you try to do specific angles or edit values manually instead of using a slider

[fallow surge]

Dont have such problem personally

[hollow pasture]

Try manually inputting your own values into the angles of rotation in the editor. It totally changes the expected behavior as compared to using the slider

[fallow surge]

Did this all the time, didn't have any problems, 🤷‍♂️

[hollow pasture]

I'll get a video of it later

Like if you set the rotation to 45° in editor using a slider, but then set it to 46 using a manual input (whilst being rotated on another axis) it will rotate in an unexpected way

[brave canyon]

Aaah yeah totally understandable

[thin wing]

Works fine on 1.20.7 at least

Oh shit 1.20.8 just dropped lol

[fallow surge]

test it out pls

[brave canyon]

Oh god it did?

[upper ermine]

It helps if you shout “GAE … BOLG!” So make sure your microphone is on

[soft skiff]

anyone know how I can disable the tembling aim trait on the tailor?

[brave canyon]

You’d have to go in and make a patch with JSON that removes it

[final garden]

@fallow surge @hollow pasture I tried a few different approaches to the hounskull, because I didn't want to give it up just yet. Not really sold with any of these, though, so unless one of these look good to you, I'll probably try a different style of helmet

[hollow pasture]

Personally, I'm a big fan of #3, but I'm not the one who adds things to the mod 😭

[fallow surge]

Send me pls the third model

[brave canyon]

I love the varieties of helmet hell yeah

All of them are really great, your modeling is wonderful

[final garden]

Sure thing. If you like it, I can work on it further to fix any flaws it has to make it a little cleaner if you like, too. I assume you'd like it DMed?

Also toyed around with angling the eyes a bit

[fallow surge]

I just wanted to play with the model

[fallow surge]

Looks better

[final garden]

I can't DM you. Want me to just put it here?

[fallow surge]

yep

[final garden]

The Version 2 I included has the eyes angled slightly, too. Currently they still have the other attempts in their cube heirarchy, which would be removed in the final. Also included the temporary iron texture. I plan on merging most of the helmets onto one texture later to save on size.

[soft skiff]

do you know where I could find the documentation for that?

[fallow surge]

Do you need it for server or singleplayer?

If for singleplayer, just set this to false

And use .charsel to switch to commoner and back

[upper ermine]

So I vaguely remember there being a way to make it so the way taht you swing is altered by your movement and not your mouse movement, what was that and can it be done for just one person or must it be done server side?

[upper ermine]

Uhhh how does one do that?

[fallow surge]

Use config lib

[upper ermine]

and then hit the P key? I see combat overhaul: armory but that's it for CO

[fallow surge]

CO has config

should have

[upper ermine]

It is in fact there but I swear it only showed up when i filtered for combat overhaul specifically rather than just scrolling the list. or I'm just getting old.

[fallow surge]

Finally I see some positive feedback instead of just hate

It is just I rare see any positive feedback from not regulars... It is discouraging. No idea how to fix stuff related to negative feedback because it is not constructive though.

[thin wing]

Unfortunately people are more likely to silently enjoy something and only say anything if they have a complaint

[fallow surge]

Yeah

[tough orchid]

Hey man, sorry to be a bother, I've just done a reinstall to the most recent version of CO and now the pickaxe and axe animations have gone back to Vanilla, did I manage to screw it in some way? I've cleared cache and restarted the game as well

[fallow surge]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/toolsanimations

[tough orchid]

Cheers man, I am a complete nob 🔥

[fallow surge]

I guess I wrote all the code for my new lib, at least for first iteration, except for gui part... I was avoiding it at all costs, but it seems I have no choice but to work on it.

[brave canyon]

What's the new lib?

[fallow surge]

For multiple player models, like kemono but simpler and much more compatible

No idea why noone has made on yet

[final garden]

Your stuff is amazing. This is why I am trying to work on it with you. I honestly see so many people who consider CO a mandatory mod for them to enjoy Vintage Story

[brave canyon]

Oooh, hell yeah

And yeah, I absolutely agree with Bronze. It's utterly mandatory for me.

All my friends feel the same, it just... the vanilla combat has NOTHING on the fun additions CO brings

And then stuff like Crossbows and Firearms ontop of that, and I kinda love the more modular armor options too...

I find the raytrace combat so lackluster haha. Plus I absolutely appreciate the effort that had to go into actually coding hitboxes and everything, damn.

But yeah, a better library for more player models would be really damn great. I wish I was more of a modeler but I really hope it can help make the model reskins a lot more organized and not just a replacer as well.

[fallow surge]

Overhail lib is about 22k lines of code

[brave canyon]

I kinda love species mods like that, there was one for Terraria that added little abilities ontop of actually looking like a different race, which was cool as hell.

[fallow surge]

Most of it in animations part 5k

[brave canyon]

Even just the visuals is a great addition :P

And damn...

That is a LOT. I can't imagine doing all the animations, it probably took a long damn time.

[fallow surge]

I will allow to restrict certain specific classes to specific models, so modders will be able to create races mod using this

[brave canyon]

That would be pretty cool, yeah

[fallow surge]

It is C# part, not content part

[brave canyon]

Oh

Oh crap yeah

[brave canyon]

That's why I'll always say just ignore the haters, they can cope and seethe all they want :P You are the one putting in the crazy effort for a great mod, and all for free. Do it for yourself, however you want to play the game.

It's why I've been just so invested in Toolsmith

It's what I wanna see out of a Tool-parts kinda idea haha

Even just the Textures from Attributes stuff has led me to this now haha

https://i.imgur.com/UEvvWox.png

I reduced what used to be the handles at like, 3 base, and multiple variants ontop of that to just the 3 base ones.

I still need to get it all actually working, but I made it more dynamic based on the attributes from that foundation.

[fallow surge]

I hope you will be able to debug and use my prototype of models from attributes I sent you. So you can have different part models on a tool

[brave canyon]

Yeah! That's the next step, once I get the modular parts running, I gotta look at how I can then just take the renders for each part and mash them together into a composite shape...

I figured adding it all to a Render Data Tree helped to organize it, and the idea is that a Tool has a tree of Part Render Datas, which has the Shape, and any textures, probably will need to add Rotations and stuff on that too...

[fallow surge]

This should do it

[brave canyon]

Then just the nested calls can print the parts and merge them together

Oh yeah! I still have that file open in Notepad++ haha

[fallow surge]

I haven't debuged it, so nothing is guaranteed

I wanted to make tools mod "properly", but I saw you do it properly, it seems, so I ditched the idea

[brave canyon]

Yeah fair haha

Oh! Damn, sorry :P But at least it's less on your plate, haha

[fallow surge]

No, it is good, I can work on other stuff.

like this new lib

[brave canyon]

Haha, true yeah :P

[brave canyon]

Huh... Why is merging trees so weird. Which way do they merge...?

And why when you GetOrAdd a tree, the first time if it adds, it's a reference back to it, the second time you have to merge.

Welp, then I see you just set it instead of merging so haha this works then.

[hollow pasture]

Sounds like a #mod-development question

[brave canyon]

Oh, was talking about what was posted up there, but I ended up figuring out it was a problem I caused at the very least.

Sorry!

[final garden]

I loved that mod!

[brave canyon]

Haha yeah! That mod was great! I love being a Lizard or Draconian :P

And the changes were varied where some had some serious changes to gameplay and others were just small tweaks, it was cool.

[blazing zenith]

For the armory overhaul. Why would you want to make a Brig armor over the plate? All the debuffs are the same for the Brig vs the Plate except for the durability. Plate has better protection. I just don't see a reason to use anything other than plate for metal armor

[fallow surge]

Have you tried smithing cuiras?

[thin wing]

Much cheaper and much easier to craft

[blazing zenith]

Not yet, does it take a significant amount of metal? Brig armor takes about 8 bars for it. Is the plate significantly more?

^^^ Just added the mod to a save so trying to figure out if the mod just made leathermaking basically pointless

[thin wing]

You still need leather for some armors, jerkin is a decent alternative to gambeson, and leather has a billion uses outside armor anyway

A cuirass is very expensive and a VERY long smithing project

[fallow surge]

I find it ok, dunno why everyone so scared about it

[thin wing]

Comparative to any other smithing recipe except the anvil anyway :p

[fallow surge]

yeah, fair

[brave canyon]

My Blacksmithing friend absolutely loved it haha

And he LOVES blacksmithing in general. So much so like in Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, he spent like enough time at the smithy to almost fully level it to max as soon as he found it.

I kinda agree too, keep the complex recipes coming, the smithing minigame is a lot of fun :P

[fallow surge]

Cuirass is just big, not complex

Flask furniture kinda complex though for example

[brave canyon]

Yeah, it forced my friend to remember the Heavy Hit exists :P

Then he was like OH YEAH BANG BANG BANG and produced plates easy

[subtle sundial]

While I'm a big advocate for a proper combat update in vanilla, I never really installed combat overhaul because for some reason I thought it would change things to be a lot more complicated than I would like them to be.
I Installed it like yesterday and honestly fighting feels so much better with your hit detection and small yet important stuff like proper knockback that I don't know if I'll be able to appreciate vanilla fighting anymore.

Some people say the vanilla fighting mechanics are serviceable but I think there's a lot missing in the feedback department for it be at that level yet. There's still a lot of instances where I'm like "how did that touch me?" "How did I not hit it?" that were resolved for me by installing combat overhaul.

[brave canyon]

Oh god yeah, I can absolutely second that 1000%. I was originally a little frustrated with Vintage's default combat cause it kinda boiled down to zip forward, IMMEDIATELY backpedal to avoid the Drifter's instant slap, then stab or throw spear. Often you'd just get hit if you didn't immediately back up.

I absolutely could not stand that sometimes, I often just resorted to cheesing them out or just bunkering down and never fighting. But now that I have Combat Overhaul, shit, I don armor and run out charging in the middle of a storm cause it's hella fun hahah. I do miss the satisfaction of the downwards cleave with the Long Axe though heheh, but frankly the diagonal swings are solid both ways.

[sand anvil]

As of 1.20.8 ive been continuously getting this error in my server logs.

21.4.2025 11:39:58 [Error] Exception: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at Vintagestory.GameContent.InWorldContainer.Inventory_SlotModified(Int32 obj) in VSEssentials\Inventory\InWorldContainer.cs:line 92
   at Vintagestory.API.Common.InventoryBase.DidModifyItemSlot(ItemSlot slot, ItemStack extractedStack) in VintagestoryApi\Common\Inventory\InventoryBase.cs:line 482
   at CombatOverhaul.NightVisionSystem.OnServerTick(Single dt) in D:\Projects\VintageStory\Overhaullib\source\ModSystems.cs:line 576
   at Vintagestory.Common.GameTickListener.OnTriggered(Int64 ellapsedMilliseconds) in VintagestoryLib\Common\Model\GameTickListener.cs:line 31
   at Vintagestory.Common.EventManager.TriggerGameTick(Int64 ellapsedMilliseconds, IWorldAccessor world) in VintagestoryLib\Common\EventManager.cs:line 170
   at Vintagestory.Server.ServerMain.Process() in VintagestoryLib\Server\ServerMain.cs:line 914

Its to the point where it is actually causing my server to shut itself down because it hits the error threshold

Only reason im putting it in here is because combat overhaul is referenced

Infact its referenced 101,361 times

Its just that same error repeated over and over again until it hits that max of 100,000 errors and then poof

and now I cant even load into my world 😭 cause it just hard crashes upon me loading

Yeah, literally cant even enter the world. Cant test by turning CO off either because it keeps telling me to redownload the mods, and then it cant even find the mods on the moddb to reinstall them so it just kicks me back to the main menu

I think my world is actually screwed

[brave canyon]

Unless you have a nightvision helmet on, I doubt it's CO causing it

Since the only bit in that snippet is apparently the night vision system

[graceful bridge]

Is it your personal server?

[sand anvil]

I am using maltiez's exoskeleton

idk

it has a light on it

[brave canyon]

Ooh, okay. That might be something then, but make sure that everything's updated and such first.

[sand anvil]

yea h im gonna go on the moddb now and manually install the most recent updates

[brave canyon]

That's always the safest bet.

Make sure to clear your mod cache too after updating them all

[sand anvil]

how do i do that

ah i see it

cache folder yeah?

[brave canyon]

Yup!

[sand anvil]

just delete the stuff in the unpack folder or delete the entire unpack folder?

[brave canyon]

Just delete whats in that, it should be - Yeah exactly.

Delete that unpack folder

[sand anvil]

👍

[brave canyon]

It'll just get remade when you launch the game again

[sand anvil]

okay so

mods reinstalled

i had the most up to date versions already which was well, what i expected

maybe something went awry with a config, we'll see now

oo it worked

[brave canyon]

Could be another mod as well, if this doesn't solve it, you might have to try removing half your mods, seeing if it changes anything- Oh sick

[sand anvil]

i wonder what went wrong

[brave canyon]

Well nevermind that haha

Sometimes a file can just corrupt for whatever reason

Or if you updated recently, sometimes it can leave errant data behind.

[sand anvil]

maybe yeah

[brave canyon]

It's not perfect but it tries it's best :P

[sand anvil]

im just glad i aint gotta restart

[brave canyon]

It seems like the more complex the mods and the wider reaching, the more it might actually hit them with a corrupt bit like that.

I know Dana's had a good few times where that's been the solution for their mods too.

Heck, was the case for More Piles for me as well.

[fallow surge]

This is strange stuff, cause there is no 576 line in this file, and these methods are not called.

[sand anvil]

I only have 5 mods that would be working alongside with CO

could it be possible one of those is doing it instead?

[fallow surge]

Send server-main log

[sand anvil]

ah right how do i get like

old ones

cause its regenerated it now on account of me doing all this like testing and managing to fix it

Found one, this has all the errors in it

as of, 20 minutes ago

jeez its nearly 100 mb 😭

[fallow surge]

Thats a lot of mods

Hope none is trying to harmony patch my code

[sand anvil]

yeah ive got alot of mods so i can understand that they may be trying to do alot of stuff that others may be doing

[faint plover]

Wdym?! Your mod is amazing lol
Vanilla weaponry is kinda boring having only 2 melee weapons and a few bows who are only craftable by one class, this is just the dream

[hard verge]

Hey man, trying to work on compatibility with my class mod, spent some time digging in the json and for CO and Overhaul lib I don't see anything that has changed, however since your version a few weeks ago it looks like the custom trait assignments for the classes changed. I don't see any changes in you traits-and-classes.json, so my patch I wrote should still work but in game the trait assignments for the weapon classes are all shifted around. Did you have any other places that touch the trait assignments for the game player classes? I don't see any other json for that so is it in your C# code for player classes?

[subtle sundial]

@fallow surge Is there a specific process to submit a translation for one of your mods? I saw there wasn't any french i18n file for Armory so I spent my afternoon on it. I see there's a github repo for the mod but I'm not sure if I should just request a merge or if there's another way.

[fallow surge]

Just send it here

[subtle sundial]

Aight, guess that works too lol

[wind forge]

Thank you Maltiez for the great mod! I was very sceptical in the beginning, but I really love the mod now!

[upper ermine]

Thank you Maltiez, I was introduced to Vintage story with your mod already installed so I haven’t experienced the game without it, but it turns out it’s incompatible with that one furry mod and therefore saved our server from being ruined. You’re a hero.

[fallow surge]

Dont worry, I'll make a library to add new player models in a compatible way, so the server will be ruined.

[upper ermine]

Nooooooo

I’m begging you not to

Where’s that Patreon link

[fallow surge]

I dont like kemono mod, but dont see anything bad in furries tbh

[upper ermine]

The problem is that the admin is weirdly suggestible so one person brought it up and he instantly added it and suddenly everyone is ponies

(And can’t use weapons)

[fallow surge]

I'm testing the library on fox mod for example

[upper ermine]

Nononono

[fallow surge]

Dont like foxes?

[upper ermine]

I like foxes with human noses

[fallow surge]

This is the only patch that touches classes and traits

[upper ermine]

Ears and tail, good to nail
Furry snout, rule them out
Scales or claws, cause for pause
Button nose, get the hose

[modest rampart]

interesting, i wanted to make a mod to change the body of the character a bit too, wonder how thats done

[fresh crypt]

I updated the mod today, and spears (only weapon I could test) no longer have the ability to change attack direction by looking, the entire mechanic seems to be straight up gone, but only for one of my worlds
If I go into another world, it starts working again
It persist even after a restart and a reinstall of the mod

Nevermind, I am just incredibly stupid and didn't realize the mechanic didn't work if you had something in your off hand

Ignore my lack of brain cells

[hollow pasture]

Tbf it confused me a lot too until I placed down my Lantern to 2 hand effectively

[brave canyon]

I sometimes forget as well, but since I use the Long Axe as a primary weapon, there's a big obvious point where I just don't swing :P

And quickly go OH. OH NO.

[sand anvil]

this is why I love the exoskeleton add-on maltiez made

gives you a light that you can use even with two handed weapons

[hollow pasture]

I'm a huge fan of the movement speed that keeps up many new strafing and kiting strategies that makes fighting a much faster and less risky game

Bellheads are pretty much my only threat with steel plate underneath

[sand anvil]

yeah I have a video of me just bhopping around Bowtorns and sniping them with a crossbow lol

[brave canyon]

Another mod that works veeeeery nicely with CO is the Wearable Lights

There’s a Lantern Backpack that is wonderful

[soft skiff]

I'm running a server

[glad tiger]

Hellor, I installed the Firearms and OverhaulLib on my server and my players is crashing when they try to log in to my server. The log says:

System.Exception: Firearm should have AnimatableAttachable behavior.

What I can do with it?

[small tapir]

animtable makes me think its animation jank so check if overhaul lib is updated correctly

if you just installed it idk but my group had similar issue where we had an old version of overhaullib and that was causing firearms to crash

[upper ermine]

This made me imagine someone running around with a greatsword with a lantern handle clutched in their teeth. Maybe it could be set so that you can’t eat or have a face covering helmet while you’re using it…

[final garden]

I always just use hand-and-a-half weapons to overcome the lantern issue. That way I can still swing my club or longsword even if I have a lantern in my off hand

[upper ermine]

dual swords when

[brave canyon]

... That would be kinda sick but ... dynamic dual weilding based on main and offhand weapons... That'd be intense to make, maybe.

[upper ermine]

Does this mean I’ll never live out of Diarmuid dream of a sword in one hand and a spear in the other?

[brave canyon]

Well, if you can help with animations, it might be more plausible

[final garden]

Anybody have any particular visored medieval helmets they like? I still have to make some for meteoric iron, silver, and gold. Probably gonna do a german sallet for steel, and was originally thinking of doing a closed helmet for silver, but realized I forgot about gold and meteoric iron, so now I gotta find two other designs

[austere phoenix]

Hey, so i have combat overhaul downloaded but it seems to conflict with rust and rot drifter patch basically making it so any changes in the patch dont go through. I made sure to narrow it down to combat overhaul. I was wondering what in the mod could conflict with a drifter patch?

i try to make their damage higher and speed faster but when combat overhaul is active it seems to negate all changes

[final garden]

Combat overhaul changes how damage works in order to specify slash/blunt/piercing, among other things, so I could see that conflicting

[austere phoenix]

after looking yes, there is a file called patch that changed drifters damage values

do you think if i removed it there would be gameplay changed

like, pretaining to how damage is calculated, i notice slashing and peircing mention a lot

if i remove it will say armor not work against their attacks because their attacks are now calculated in vanillia

[glad tiger]

I am using the overhaullib_0.2.7

[final garden]

Yeah, it would change it quite a bit

Likely

[upper ermine]

My friend said that hitting P and toggling that setting so they can use wasd to alter their swings doesn't actually change anything. does he need to restart or does the server need to do something?

[upper ermine]

...

[hollow pasture]

Armet armet armet!

[final garden]

Sure, those are almost identical to close helms, though

[hollow pasture]

Add a pretty plume pretty please?

🤣

Also, you say a sallet for a steel visored helmet? That would mean you'd have to model a bevor, no?

[upper ermine]

Does anyone have any idea which mod updated fairly recently and made it so you cant set hoes on dirt blocks anymore leaning them against a wall)? Could it be combat overhaul?

[final garden]

Yes, I can forsee that being a bit tricky, but I have some plans

[final garden]

For the silver or gold? Absolutely

[hollow pasture]

Would you like the bevor I already modeled? I don't know if it compares to your quality, but the scale is right to not cause adverse clipping

[final garden]

I'll take a look at it, sure. I'll probably try to figure out my own approach first, though

[hollow pasture]

Here it is. Sorry for the wait!

[hollow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-17729711691959966457

[final garden]

Oh no worries! I'm not working on the steel stage yet, still gotta do meteoric iron. Besides, Easter is ending and now I'll have less time again

[uneven trench]

I just realized I can make FF7 Buster Sword without needing people to download CO now due to OverhaulLib

or does CO still have specific things that wouldnt make it work?

[fallow surge]

You could make it using standard vanilla for a while already.
CO adds accurate colliders, so without it you will have to hit vanilla selection boxes. Also damage types and tiers wont matter.

Otherwise, yes, you can use overhaul lib alone, it has all the code from CO

[uneven trench]

was really more interested in the swing anims

it's a big sword

[final garden]

You're making the buster sword or other stuff too?

[brave canyon]

-# I second that request for Plumes, hehehe.

[uneven trench]

i have a blade that is basically Fusion Sword but the merge points is them stacked vertically instead of the entire thing merging to a Buster Sword like shape

[vital pecan]

is this where to post crash logs?

[fallow surge]

yes, post client-main and server-main logs as well

[fallow surge]

installation error

[vital pecan]

i just downloaded this modpack i saw available and waned to sneak your firearm smod in

ah

any idea what the error was? my mods folder is all zipped files

[faint plover]

You re supposed to extract them and have the normal folders with their name on it

[vital pecan]

im supposed to extract it all in my mods folder? feel like there would be a bunch of overwrites

[fallow surge]

What!? Dont extract mods

[faint plover]

Huh? You can play with them zipped?

[fallow surge]

You should do it, dont extract mods

[faint plover]

It never worked in any games to have them kept zipped

I need to try that

[fallow surge]

Update mods, remove duplicates, clear cache, restart the game, dont disable mods via mod manager, it does not fully work

[thin wing]

I've seen plenty of games where you're supposed to leave then zipped

[vital pecan]

kk thanky

[fallow surge]

Tbh, I will be greatfull if ppl here will help solve installation issues (just dont ask to unzip mods). I dont want to spent effort on this, cause then I barely have enough to work on mods.

Usually I just interested to check logs to make sure it is not an actual bug

[sand anvil]

it's a chest mounted light on the model

[vital pecan]

i appreciate the help really, i usually dont go outta my way to post logs and stuff but that seemed to have help

[spring sigil]

hey if I add https://mods.vintagestory.at/armory right now, will it brick my world?

[thin wing]

No, but you do need combat Overhaul too

[spring sigil]

dw i got that

just wanted to know if itll mess something up if i added it after making a world

[thin wing]

VS is generally fine with adding mods mid run especially ones like Armory that only add new items

[sand agate]

fought off my first temporal storm with combat overhaul. ran around like a madman with an iron halberd, a plate helmet, and a dream

love how dynamic it makes the combat feel, it actually feels rewarding to get out and dive into the melee as opposed to forting up and throwing spears the entire time

[small tapir]

halberd my goat 💯 it is so fun

hunter with halberd goes REAL crazy tbh, attackspeed and movespeed with a reach weapon that hits like a truck???? sign me tf up

[sand anvil]

I personally believe it makes the combat much better than vanilla which is why I can't understand people who don't like it

I mean sure it makes combat easier, but vanilla combat can be a bore, you would not believe how long it takes me to kill a double headed drifter without CO

[small tapir]

the like only complaint i could see is the bows feeling bad compared to vanilla

and maybe the completely ignoring the sling but tbh i am glad sling didnt get the bulleye aiming

[thin wing]

If you think that's good wait until you see the blackguard with a greatsword

[small tapir]

my group's got one of those with nearly a full set of starmetal chainmail rn

its gonna be so funny to see him just tear his way through RA while the rest of us dont get to do anything

[thin wing]

Like 9 damage per hit in a gigantic area with a surprisingly fast attack speed

[uneven trench]

my combat arsenal is looking better each day

now I just need to get myself steel

and another trip to RA to get that flintlock blueprint I hopefully stashed in one of the RA jars

[soft oriole]

its just in firearms, nvm

[uneven trench]

...i got pinged?

[thin wing]

Bal ponged you to ask a question but then answered it himself

[soft oriole]

yes

this is correct

[uneven trench]

pls make sure to not go for reply ping then lol

[soft oriole]

yes

[uneven trench]

anyway crossbows and firearms have stands

[hollow pasture]

Historically accurate halberdier 🤣

[pliant parcel]

How much better is the falx blade against the clockwork monsters than the others? Is it better to just use the ones with bonuses rather than that?

[sand anvil]

the falx blade was specifically made in lore to fight otherwordly monsters and its still quite good with CO

[hollow tulip]

yeah I don't like your mods either I'm just a hater >:)))))

I wake up...I hate

lol

[hollow tulip]

what's that paper stuff on the shelves

[uneven trench]

two of my four sets of cards from Dana's Tabletop Games mod

[hollow pasture]

Stats wise it is the best 1 handed weapon (when paired with a light shield) because the damage tier of the falx allows it to penetrate the same damage tiers that a warhammer/mace/club would allow

Basically if you have lower tier than the enemy resistance you do 50% damage, if you match the tier you do 75%, and if you exceed it you do 100%

[sand anvil]

the blackguard shortsword is also quite good in CO, but the falx blade is generally better as anyone can access that

[hollow pasture]

It also has a lower damage tier than even an iron falx, so it behaves more like the Sabres added in armory

[sand anvil]

its that parry that makes it good in my eyes personally

it can negate literally all damage from any tier enemy aslong as you hit the parry im pretty sure

either way you arent wrong

[hollow pasture]

A protection tier of 9, yes, but parries cannot parry ranged attacks

[sand anvil]

yeah thats fair

[hollow pasture]

I don't think polearm blocks block arrows either

[sand anvil]

dont believe so, pretty sure only shields block them

[hollow pasture]

Tbh I just choose to forgoe a shield and make better armor with a polearm

I'll eat the ranged hits

[faint plover]

so shields can only parry up to their tier right?

[hollow pasture]

Light Shields can "parry" (i.e. the starting animation when blocking) up to tier 9 in most cases

But they can only block up to their tier after that

And then it applies like armor would

Damage to the player works different than damage to enemies

[faint plover]

so what's the drawback? they seem really overpowered
if you land a parry with even the flimsiest of shields, you negate every damage?

[hollow pasture]

Recieved damage is a smoother curve than just 50, 75, or 100 percent damage

[hollow pasture]

It's tough to land with the way VS enemies attack, but if you fuck up the timing then you still get hurt pretty bad

[faint plover]

I had some fun in creative 1v1ing polar bears and wolves with greatswords, and tbh, it only took me a minute to get timings right, and animals are the hardest to time (drifters are much more clear to see imo)

[hollow pasture]

Parries quickly become less reliable when fighting hordes

Which is what most of my combat consists of when farming gears and Jonas parts

[faint plover]

True ig

[hollow pasture]

I live near the equator, so I don't have much big wildlife to fight either

Just hyenas

[faint plover]

Lmao
I did a roadtrip to a desert area for a few hours while still being nomadic
Nothing but thermite mounds and hyenas
An ungodly amount of hyenas
Just a pack of 3 to 6 hyenas (babies included) every 50 to 100 blocks
So annoying

[uneven trench]

you know what would be nice, when you successfully parry and immediately click attack, you counter-attack

[faint plover]

Ooh ye a riposte

[hollow pasture]

THERMITE mounds? That sounds awesome 🤣

[hollow pasture]

Mordhau style would be quite nice and rewarding, but a Dark and Darker damage boost could be cool too

Thing is, a faster swing isn't necessarily always a good thing unless you're in PvP

[faint plover]

primitive survival mod

it saved us so much

bc there was nothing else to eat other than hyenas

[uneven trench]

the timing will be so tight, there'd be a new animation of a stagger before you can counter/riposte

[hollow pasture]

No, I mean there is a big difference between TERMITES and THERMITE

[faint plover]

oh mb then

i have no idea which is which lol

the other t/h/ermite is the chemical compound right?

[hollow pasture]

Termites are bugs, Thermite burns hot enough to punch through steel like a lightsaber

[faint plover]

both sound yummy

[uneven trench]

thermite mounds is just a very nice way to get gunpowder

[upper ermine]

One of my friends who doesn't says it "just makes combat more difficult" and IIRC the reason was ranged weapon wobble

[graceful bridge]

I had a lot of complaining from my ranged servermates. I used the config to change it to fixed.

[nocturne shore]

Were Xskills fist perks fixed to work with CO?

[hollow pasture]

For the most part, yes, but there are still some small incompatibilities that don't seem to cause issues for me

[hollow pasture]

This is so odd to me because it makes your mostly Inaccurate bow into a much more predictable tool. To each their own I suppose

-Lower or matching tier 50-75%, matching or higher 100%
-Blunt, Slash, and Pierce weapons
-Creature damage type vulnerabilities
-Vulnerable and strong spots

2. Receiving Damage
- Received damage is calculated in a more granular way
- Coverage areas/damage area multipliers
- Additive resistance values of each slot to a coverage area
- Hit chance from PvE compared to accurate PvP hitboxes
- Second chance mechanic

3. Weapon Mechanics
- Parrying
- Blocking
- Attack directions (and affected damage type)
- 2 Handed, 1.5 Handed, and 1 Handed weapons 
- Weapon Niches

4. Armor Mechanics
- Manipulation Speed
- Movement speed (as compared to vanilla)
- Armor Niches

5. Supplementary Mods (Will be spoken about as if they are installed by default in previous sections)

5.1 Tool Animations 
- Does Manipulation speed affect mining speed? 

5.2 Armory, Crossbows, Firearms, Arrows
- New Weapons
- Armor part division

5.3 Exoskeletons
- New Armor types
- Armor fuel Mechanics ```

[nocturne shore]

how does iron fist work then?

average of all dmg types & all layers?

[hollow pasture]

Ahhh, I haven't messed with fists much, but I doubt anything that references armor values doesn't work correctly

That's a Xskills question though, because all the compatibility was done on their end

[hollow pasture]

@fallow surge Here is a pseudo script with all of the major points I want to bring up in an explanation video for Combat Overhaul. Do you think I'm missing anything?

Also, it seems like people really enjoy having a sneak peek of the combat

[fallow surge]

-Lower tier 50-75%, matching tier 100%, higher tier 100%

[hollow pasture]

Truly? Alright it's been fixed

[upper ermine]

You mean the reticule thing? The wobble? Isn't that mostly or entirely cosmetic and it still causes shots to miss?

[hollow pasture]

Are the same rules followed for the player/pvp?

[hollow pasture]

No, it's not cosmetic. It's a legitimate restraint to using full plate alongside ranged weapons

[fallow surge]

no

This is for player receiving damage

[hollow pasture]

Do you have a list of damage tiers and types for the various enemies?

Like the damage they do to the player

[hollow pasture]

Thank you so so much. This will help a lot!

Oh man, I thought the bellheads did Blunt damage because of how hard they hit me through my basic steel plate. I suppose I may have been missing my maille or something then

[sterile notch]

I'm not sure where to find it, but is there a guide as to what the slots in the player window are? Like the 3 rows when you press C, I want to start making some armor, but don't want to make pieces that might not fit the slots I need, anyone have any tips on what thoses fields mean?

[hollow pasture]

If you take a screenshot of the armor UI, I'll add descriptors to it for you

[sterile notch]

Thank you!

[hollow pasture]

Can you give me a little bit of space to the right so I have space for the text?

Thank you

[sterile notch]

Thank you so much!

[hollow pasture]

Wait they're already labeled though, are they not?

If you're in creative, grab some of the existing armors and check what slots they take up in their item description and when you put them on

[sterile notch]

ahhh will do that, thanks!!

[hollow pasture]

Or do you mean you want to know what items cover what areas?

[sterile notch]

just overall, so each lvl like chain, scale, and plate don't go into all the fields right? Like probably only plate armor?

[hollow pasture]

Scale takes up the "middle" and "outer" slots (i.e. chain and plate)

[sterile notch]

gotchu, okok that makes sense, I'll play with it in creative and test out, I appreciate the info!!

[hollow pasture]

No problem. I'm making a video sometime this week going over everything in Combat Overhaul just for reasons like this

[hollow pasture]

Went ahead and did this, but you've probably already figured it out

I forgot what leather is because I never make it 😭

[sterile notch]

Man you’re the best! Thank you!!

[tawdry condor]

leather jerkin(?) is inner too

slightly worse gambo, but still good for some blunt protection

[hollow pasture]

Thanks for the reminder. I've yet to make one of those either 🤣

[fallow surge]

Just I got to making logo image for the lib my photoshop decided to uncrack itself, fuck

[hollow pasture]

I guess it's time to try GIMP?

[fallow surge]

Nope, I just crack it again, dont want to learn new editor

[dim island]

I love playing with this mod :>

[faint plover]

is there no tier in CO?