Tailor's Delight

[pine stratus]

Or fauna of the stone age has the best animal mods.

😁

[vapid bluff]

Good to know I found the niche behind the curtain 😄

[pine stratus]

*niche of crafting curtains

[vapid bluff]

Pls don't remind me on curtains, yet-another-feature I lacked the time to work on 😓

[pine stratus]

Was just a joke. Though curtains would be nice I suppose. 😅

[pine stratus]

Why were feathers needed for the pelt gloves and boots? The fuzzy part I thought is fur not feathers. 🤔

[vapid bluff]

Because people asked for more usages of feathers 🤷‍♂️

[vapid bluff]

@strange dragon Here you go, feathers have been removed from fur clothing.

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/8600?saved=1#tab-files

The recipe for the boots and the final boots look completely different but I'm too tired of thinking of yet-another-modification that will then spark cries about changed vanilla recipes, so it stays for now as oversimplificated it is.

[pine stratus]

I agree that feathers should be used more. But for clothing with actual feathers. 😅

[pine stratus]

Thank you! Do you know if this works for 1.19 still? I haven't upgraded to 1.20 yet

[vapid bluff]

It will work 95% - there are references to new codes in 1.20 that won't work in 1.19 (notable, amy leather). Use it at your own risk.

(And no, I will not make a 1.19 version anymore, I've switched development to 1.20 exclusively now.)

[pine stratus]

I suppose if you added a down jacket feathers would make sense. 🤷‍♂️

[vapid bluff]

I'm not adding more features now.

[pine stratus]

Just a suggestion to your todo list. 😉 Know you have a lot on your plate.

[strange dragon]

If you were still thinking of "how do I make this not magically turning loose pelts into a whole set of clothing", maybe some kind of hide or pelt strips as an implied "this is what holds the thing together" to add some complexity without changing what raw ingredients are ultimately needed for it?

Thank you for taking my feedback into consideration regardless!

[hardy gull]

dude have you never heard of a down coat?

[pine stratus]

@hardy gull

[hardy gull]

ah I missed that one

either way, why does a different kind of coat need to be added when lining pelt items with feathers still make sense?

[pine stratus]

to be fair i just asked about the gloves and boots, not the coat or pants.

[vapid bluff]

There are no fur pants, only raw-hide pants and TD never changed the recipe for these.

[lean egret]

how do i make a raw hide bundle into the normal verison? trying to make a fur coat atm

[pine stratus]

Also is there a way to make a raw hide bundle into a pelt bundle?

I know raw hides + fat + time = pelts

Just wondering if it can be done with bundles

[vapid bluff]

No, not yet. I could add this, maybe. (The raw bundles are a bit tricky, because technically they should also rot, which they don't. The bundles were just so you don't have to have 10 gazillion recipes for every different hide size (and with wolf/boar/sheep etc. hides in Hide & Fabric, each recipe would need to be duplicated 10 times, too).

[vapid bluff]

This isn't possible, I'm afraid.

[lean egret]

Damn :( wasnt able to make a fur coat since i need notmal pelt bundles, but i can only make raw

(I am on, 1.20 rc1)

[vapid bluff]

I can add a recipe for that tomorrow and publish a new TD version.

[lean egret]

Oh, you dont have to!! I jist thought there was a way to make it into normal pelt bundles lol

[vapid bluff]

What exactly do you mean by "the normal version"? What recipe are you trying to craft, and what ingredients does it need? Could send me a screenshot please?

[lean egret]

Im not on atm, but its the fur coat. I can only craft raw hide bundle, but the recipe calls for just, hide bundle

[vapid bluff]

Will be in the next pre-release 🙂

[pine stratus]

@vapid bluff
Hunter`s Lodge and Volcanoes !?!?! 👀

🤯

[vapid bluff]

Please don't get your hopes up for volcanoes - I'm overly busy even finishing the upgrades for 1.20 😰

[opal mango]

Hey out of curiosity what this does?

[vapid bluff]

It was for future projects, currently it has no uses.

[vapid bluff]

Coming soon™

[rapid wigeon]

more cloth colors?

*darkened cloth and leather...?

[vapid bluff]

Dark leather was already in the mod, I've now added dark cloth and twine in four colors: blue, brown, green and red 🙂

Especially the new dark blue will be used in quite a few clothing recipes, even with just TD.

Still need to tweak the dying recipe so it doesn't just use a "normal" color to dark the standard color. I'm thinking something with chromite in or so. We have these new cooking recipes now.

Here is an example recipe from Dressmakers:
(I actually need to update this to use dark-brown cloth and dark-blue twine instead of brown twine and darkblue cloth but you get the idea)

[rapid wigeon]

one thing I wish I could do is dye clothing to custom colors. there are clothes that I'd love to use together but the colors don't match or go together well

[formal dagger]

@vapid bluff my wife recently revived the specialty bags mod, there is only a few bags in the mod but we like to use your mod but dont want to force it on other players. Would you be willing to make a patch to make the recipes in line with this mod when using it? ie. with the awl and so on.

[fickle star]

Would that be something you could patch from your side? 🤔

[formal dagger]

Not without its own mod i don't think, if so we don't know how because the patch looks for an already loaded mod then overwrites the recipe. We don't know how to make our mod do dif recipes based on other mods loaded. Now my wife would even throw the "patch" together so it could added. It's the first mod we worked on so we aren't sure how to do that.

The "patch" is how some the other mods that are compatible on tels stuff is working... but he wrote both mods.

[formal dagger]

also getting this error https://pastebin.com/FX20ZJ2w

[vapid bluff]

Of course, I thought I'd already done it 🙃 Will track it, thank you for the feedback 💛
I'll ping you when it is done and if you are interested on how the compatibility stuff works, I could also teach you to do it on your mod side. It works either way.

[formal dagger]

@dry escarp ^^
That would be cool. She is ahead of me in the learning curve on this but yeah, that w9uld be really awesome!

[pine vigil]

@vapid bluff may I have your permission to utilize some of the textures from your mod in custom clothes for a mod I'm considering on building?
I plan on using vanilla textures too, but I love what you've designed and wild enjoy utilizing some of their aspects.

[vapid bluff]

If you just want to reference the textures when our mods are loaded, go ahead.

If you want to cut out parts and modify them, or remix them etc. then the textures are under the GPL v3.0 (see f.i. https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_wool/-/blob/main/LICENSE) which basically means you can use them as long as:

• you give credit
• put the modified files under the same GNU GPL 3.0 license (granting everybody else the same rights again)
• technically, putting files under GPL together means all of them become GPL, but I think for art assets it would be fine if you just license the modified files as GPL, and keep all other files under any license you like to have for them.

And yeah, I know, the GPL isn't the most-suited license for art assets, it's just when we started out, we expected to have lots of code and little art assets, not 100% art 😄

[pine vigil]

Aha! Thank you for showing these to me. I'll be certain to do some research and credit accordingly.

[vapid bluff]

I'll also have a think about using a better suited license for the assets, thanx for reminding me 🙂

And thank you for considering our work 🙂

[vapid bluff]

If there is dark cloth, of course there needs to be dark checkered cloth. And of course dark checkered table cloth and panels.

I'm thinking, tho, moving the table cloth and cloth panels to the Upholstery mod - not everybody who uses Tailor's Delight wants so many different blocks, right? 🤔

[vapid bluff]

Bottom row: the four new dark cloth and checkered cloth colors. Upper row: the original colors.

[fickle star]

That sounds like a good idea. Fits the vibe of Upholstery mod more

[wanton sable]

Hello, have you thought about adding compatibility with millwright? I couldn’t find the answer anywhere (I didn’t look long lol)

[formal dagger]

oh a special "canvas" level material for the windmills be kinda cool, abd naybe a few color options for the sails as well.

[pine vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/vamos-dar-a-meia-volta-lets-turn-around-pinwheel-sing-a-long-windy-gif-14270548

[fickle star]

Any idea why this might be happening?

This is on world creation

[vapid bluff]

Yes, my mistake, will fix it in the next pre-release. Simply overlooked this 🙂

[vapid bluff]

Had this idea, already, but so far I've scheduled compatibility with Millwright for Wool & More, not for Tailor's Delight, which is more of a "basic" mod.

Of course, colored windmaill sails would be nice, but then, it's a lot of work. Probably will come to a new mod or must be part of millwright. Sorry, currently I'm swamped with 1.20 adaption and small features in all my other mods.

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, I'll schedule these items to be moved over to Upholstery. Also, Upholstery really needs an update for new chair colors 🙃

[upbeat skiff]

I have this mod and DanaTweaks, WarmArmor, Hydrate or Diedrate, and Armory enabled and for some reason I'm unable to recycle clothes :c

Disregard I'm just dumb

[dry escarp]

Thanks! sorry for the delay i was out of state and then got sick. Any help and learnings would be appreciated. Just getting our feed wet with this stuff and anything i can do on my end I would be happy to!

[vapid bluff]

no worries 🙂

Here is a short overview of the general process of having compatibility between two mods:

• decide into which of the mods to put it (yours, or the other mod). (sometimes it is easier on one of them, or the other, and sometimes you can only control you own mod and have no access to the other one)
• decide how you want to make it compatible. Do you want to:

• disable a recipe and replace it with your own? or do you want to change the recipe (patch it) instead? Sometimes the first is easier, sometimes the latter
• or you need to modify an item or block? In this case patching in your own attributes is usually the only way.

Also decide if you want to have a patch A) in the compatibility folder (where is only executed when the other mod is loaded, a safe way) or B) have the patch in your own mods asset folder, where it is always executed, and then have the patch restricted to run only when the other mod is present

I guess you want to have some items from Tailor's Delight go ito your own specilized bags? In Wool & More I've added compatibility for the wildcraft tree baskets by adding storageflags to my own items when Wildcraft Trees is loaded like so:
https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_wool/-/blob/main/assets/wool/compatibility/wildcrafttree/patches/wool_storageflags.json

[dry escarp]

I believe @formal dagger wants recipes using items from Tailor’s delight.

[vapid bluff]

Hm, this is quite easy, have a look at examples from Dressmakers:
https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_dressmakers/-/blob/main/assets/dressmakers/recipes/grid/clothing/class/face.json
They use a mix of game: and tailorsdelight: items. All you need to do is either:

• make Tailor's Delight a requirement for your mod OR
• add the recipes under compatibility folder like so:
  https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_wool/-/blob/main/assets/wool/compatibility/tailorsdelight/recipes/grid/wool/needlepuff.json
  This recipe here is only used when both Wool and TD are loaded, otherwise the game ignores it. So you can use Wool & More with TD, or without it and both work.

[dry escarp]

Looks like the latter is what we will do. I will give it a go! Thank you very much!

[dry escarp]

ok so i understand how to make the recipe, but if they don't have the tailor's mod, how do I tell the game which recipe to use? Either its the base one i have or if they have your mod too, then it uses that one?

[dry escarp]

also, not sure why but on our end it looks like you have a patch to change the recipie of the game mining bag but it isn't changing it on our server for some reason.

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, you need to have two recipes.

There are two ways:

• keep both recipes, so there are alternatives
• keep only one: disable your recipe (by patching in enabled: false into it) when the other mod is loaded
• or, which is a bit more complicated sometimes, patch your own recipe when the other mod is loaded.

Here is an example where I patch a recipe from beltcraft when both Dressmakers and Beltcraft are loaded:
https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_dressmakers/-/blob/main/assets/dressmakers/compatibility/beltcraft/patches/dressmakers-recipes-grid-clothing-all-waist.json
I could also just have disabled their recipe and provided my own, or kept both recipes.

[vapid bluff]

Are there any server error messages or warnings in the log?

[dry escarp]

no, i disabled all other mods to make sure it wasn't anything else i had, and there are no errors outside of the checkeredcloth ones my husband said you already knew about

[vapid bluff]

I will have a look - the stable VS already changed other recipes and my patches broke again (for saddle and sturdy saddle) so maybe the mining bag is also broken.

[dry escarp]

we were on 1.20 stable, also just tried in stable 1.20.1

ah ok. i'll have to check on my own too then

[vapid bluff]

Hope to release the new TD soon, but needed to fix ShearLib first. Should rename the game to Neverending Story™ 😄

[fiery zealot]

18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Warning] Failed resolving crafting recipe ingredient with code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkblue in Grid recipe
18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Error] Grid Recipe 'tailorsdelight:recipes/grid/cloth/checkeredcloth.json': Output Item code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkblue cannot be resolved
18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Warning] Failed resolving crafting recipe ingredient with code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkbrown in Grid recipe
18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Error] Grid Recipe 'tailorsdelight:recipes/grid/cloth/checkeredcloth.json': Output Item code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkbrown cannot be resolved
18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Warning] Failed resolving crafting recipe ingredient with code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkgreen in Grid recipe
18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Error] Grid Recipe 'tailorsdelight:recipes/grid/cloth/checkeredcloth.json': Output Item code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkgreen cannot be resolved
18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Warning] Failed resolving crafting recipe ingredient with code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkred in Grid recipe
18.1.2025 14:58:40 [Error] Grid Recipe 'tailorsdelight:recipes/grid/cloth/checkeredcloth.json': Output Item code tailorsdelight:checkeredcloth-darkred cannot be resolved

[vapid bluff]

Thanx for the report, it's already fixed and will be in the finale release 🙂

[fiery zealot]

eta on that release? working on our server modlist so checking in on all the major ones

[vapid bluff]

this weekend. The pre-release is ok, too, it's just a few cosmetic errors, nothing major broken.

Btw, do you have other ones from us?

[fiery zealot]

mods we use? well i know with tailor's we use dressmakers, weve used bookbinders as well. contemplating adding the wool & more too

[vapid bluff]

👍 I'm focusing on tailor mods first, but haven't forgotten bookbinders 🙂

[fiery zealot]

love to hear it! we are big fans of any mods that just add more depth to sectors of the game. everyone can find a little niche to dive into while we all play together

[fiery zealot]

[Error] Grid Recipe with output Item code game:hoovedwearables-blanket-commoner contains an ingredient pattern code N but supplies no ingredient for it.
18.1.2025 18:10:09 [Error] Grid Recipe with output Item code game:hoovedwearables-face-face7 has and incorrect ingredient pattern length. Ignoring recipe.
18.1.2025 18:10:09 [Error] Grid Recipe with output Item code game:hoovedwearables-face-face13 contains an ingredient pattern code M but supplies no ingredient for it.

this error only pops up with tailors installed as well

had to track down what was exactly throwing it by adding mods in sets

[vapid bluff]

It's also already fixed, will be in the release, too. They changed some recipes again between the rc and the stable release.

[fiery zealot]

Perfect! Wanted to make sure in case it was a weird interaction with another mod I have installed

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight v1.8.0 is out - now stable, compatible with 1.20 and even got a few more features like new darker leather colors 🎉
https://mods.vintagestory.at/tailorsdelight

[formal dagger]

fyi one of the hooved wearable errors still popping up

[vapid bluff]

Could you please send me the error?

[fickle star]

#mods-general message I think they're talking about this one

[vapid bluff]

Everyone else: Please see here for the discussion: https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/1330833073713188944

TLDR: There is a bug in TD 1.8.0 patching the saddle recipes, will be fixed in 1.8.1 together with some more small bugfixes.

[formal dagger]

I could later, on my way to work, it said.. @fickle star is correct that's the one. I had 3 lines with that error b4 update now only 1.

It's not a big dealio I just wanted to report it.

[vapid bluff]

Thanx, think its the same bug and will be fixed soon. 😌

[formal dagger]

I probably over report stuff but found a while ago that some bugs weren't fixed cause everyone assumed someone else said something..lol
So I just report them now and let the modder decide how important it is.

[vapid bluff]

That's how it should be 🙂

[modern cobalt]

im having issues with none of the tools being craftable, any ideas why?

[fickle star]

You have EM installed as well?

[modern cobalt]

yep,

[fickle star]

Latest version of both? Correct version for the game version you're using?

If it's yes to those then it's an issue with another mod conflicting

[modern cobalt]

latest version of both, on 1.20.1

[fickle star]

Then post a mod list

[modern cobalt]

okay give me a bit

figured it out, conflict with manual tool crafting

[fickle star]

"If a modded tool/weapon can't be crafted is probably because there's a typo in the code for that tool or the modded tool doesn't follow the game name convetion. In that case there's nothing I can do on my end. But you can add the tool/weapon yourself on the config file."

From the Manual Tool Crafting ModDB page

[modern cobalt]

i just disabled it, it's not really necessary anyways

[vapid bluff]

Everytime you think you are done with migrating to 1.20, new stuff crops up. Apparently the devs added salted hids, which now not only conflict with my salted hides (and possible the recipes) bu als ROT so there is litle point in creating them - they don't cure into aged hide, either.

Not sure what I do.

• Remove my salted hides and aged hides and panels etc.? (This also means ripping out all the recipes that use aged hide, which means a new Dressmakers release again)
• Remove my salted hides, but have salted hides "cure" into aged hide after 80 days?
• Something else?

[fiery zealot]

If there's a vanilla version it's probably just worth it to use that as the basis, rather than having duplicate mod and vanilla items

[vapid bluff]

That is also what I was thinking, I just need to decide if I want to:

• make the vanilla version not rot but cure into aged hide
• or just leave them be and remove aged hide completely

[fiery zealot]

Personally I'd go with first option, you've already got that content so no point in scrapping it

[vapid bluff]

It's used only in a handfull recipes, tho, and I could remove 3 blocks (the bundle and the panel and the block) and no texture (which is I think vanilla, so it can't be removed)

te@te-gaming:~/src/vs_dressmakers$ ack leather.*aged 
assets/dressmakers/recipes/grid/clothing/all/foot.json
7:              "L": { "type": "item", "code": "tailorsdelight:leatherbundle-aged" },

assets/dressmakers/recipes/grid/clothing/all/upperbody.json
241:            "Y": { "type": "item", "code": "tailorsdelight:leatherbundle-aged" },

assets/dressmakers/recipes/grid/clothing/all/upperbodyover.json
22:             "L": { "type": "item", "code": "tailorsdelight:leatherbundle-aged" },

assets/dressmakers/recipes/grid/clothing/class/shoulder.json
36:             "L": { "type": "item", "code": "tailorsdelight:leatherbundle-aged" },
49:             "L": { "type": "item", "code": "tailorsdelight:leatherbundle-aged", "quantity": 3 },

assets/dressmakers/recipes/grid/clothing/class/lowerbody.json
50:             "B": { "type": "item", "code": "tailorsdelight:leatherbundle-aged" },
63:             "B": { "type": "item", "code": "tailorsdelight:leatherbundle-aged" },

[fiery zealot]

Even if it's only got a handful of recipes now it could be expanded upon in the future

[vapid bluff]

Still thinking about reducing the somewhat ridiculous number of leather bundles/types:

• plain (VS)
• sturdy (VS)
• plain in all the colors (TD)
• nadiyan (TD)
• aged (TD)
• oiled (TD)
• pelt (TD)
• scraped (TD)

The last four exist mainly to make panes and blocks for chiseling ad to justify their existance I tried to use them in a few recipes. 🤔

[pure pollen]

Patiently waiting for update

[fiery zealot]

Would it make logical sense to switch the recipes using those last 4 to either plain sturdy or nadiyan? If so then I'd advocate that way, as long as the recipes make sense you could downsize the redundancy. It's just up to whether you feel having those extra versions is truly a good addition for a certain set of recipes

[vapid bluff]

Could be. The bundles are important, because they are used by tailor exclusive recipes (and can only be crafted by tailors, except the pelt, scraped and I think oiled as the these are primitive recipes)

Pelt, however, is important because some VS recipe need pelts and having a SINGLE item with a normalized ampount of pelt is much easier than to support 4 different recipes.

Sturdy and by extension, Nadiyan leather are both end-game content, so primitve recipes would probably not be able to use them. Plus the Nadiyan are more for exclusive Nadiyan rcipes and not "some generic crude hide trousers".

I'll see what I can simplify - it certainly seems a bit confusing with all the different leather working stages thrown into the mix...

[fiery zealot]

Yea I mean maybe even just cutting 1 or 2 could help simplify tremendously

[vapid bluff]

I've made the executive decision to remove the following hide/leather items/bundles/panels/blocks from TD. They might make a re-appearance in Hunter's Lodge but no promises 😅

• salted hides (uncraftable due to VS salted hide)
• aged hide, aged hide panel and aged hide block (uncraftable due to VS salted hide)
• scraped hide, panel and block
• prepped hide, panel and block

The recipes in TD and Dressmakers will be adjusted accordingly.

[fiery zealot]

I remember a discussion about making salted hides not rot anymore, update on that?

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight salted hides did not rot, but I just removed them and the "aged hides" they produced. You could make leather out of aged and salted hides in TD.

Now you are stuck with the vanilla salted hides, which do rot (after a longer time). They still can be made into leather but only before they rot (80 days or so?) 🙃

I don't have any plans to change the vanilla salted hides, everytime I patch VS items, it either breaks on the next update, or ppl berate me to not muck with their beloved VS items while at the same time the other half prompts me to change stuff ... 🤷‍♂️

Haven't released it yet, so it somebody wants these back, please speak up 📣

[fiery zealot]

Sometimes it's just better to let things lie as they are haha

[fickle star]

Using vanilla stuff where it exists seems to be the best way to go about things imo, so using the vanilla salted hides is a good idea I think.

[formal dagger]

👆

[vapid bluff]

I've released these changes as TD 1.9.0.

[fickle star]

Fixes for the errors too?

Thanks for the release!

[vapid bluff]

Yes, they are included. Also flint and obsidian awls can now be crafted, panned or bought.

[fickle star]

now*

That's awesome! I'd take an obsidian awl over a metal one any day haha

[vapid bluff]

They break easily, tho.

[fickle star]

Form > Function 😏

[opal zenith]

Looking at the last chunk of conversation in the DressMaker channel, I think I know the answer already, but is there no way to convert the bundles (pelt, rawhide, leather) back into smaller chuncks? I should have looked at the recipes more closely, but as a group we were stuck in the frozen north and had to build a boat and sail south, so I converted everything to bundles for the sake of storage. Unfortunately I didn't realize that once I finally processed it into a leather bundle, we couldn't break it down into standard leather pieces. Is that not available or am I just blind? 😅

[lyric kettle]

BUG: hunter cloak and huntsmans tunic have the same recipe

[fickle star]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/recipeselector Use this until a fix is made 🙂

[vapid bluff]

Whops, will fix it. Thanx for the report! Edit: This is a Dressmakers problem, not TD. Will fix it there.

[vapid bluff]

No, there is no recipe for that, but I think I can easily add one. Maybe you get only 1 out of 2 back, but that seems a bit hars. 🤔

Bundles can be used for most crafting recipes, but I bet I missed a lot that use plain leather. Do you have specific recipes in mind, maybe I can also make them use bundles instead of leather pieces?

[opal zenith]

Personally I would be fine with only getting half back, or perhaps half with a small chance to get two or whatever. Most of the use is for clothes and Tailor/DressMaker, and the bundles don't rot so it is already better to convert them instead of losing them outright if you don't have the lime production at the time to process them.

As far as specific recipes, we play with things like combat overhaul and butchering which all have a lot of individual leather pieces recipes. It would probably allow greater mod compatibility to allow a conversion back. (Leather bundle and shears maybe?)

One idea occurs to me... Would you be able to add the tag into the leather bundle that simply let's the game recognize it as a leather piece in addition to a bundle? Not sure if that would create unintended consequences but it would be really flexible for compatibility

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, I think shears + bundle = 2 pieces of leather or small hide or small pelt would be fine. e.g you get all the material back, but you lose the stick and tool durability when you convert them and then convert them back.

Although a few caveats:

• Because it is 4 different sizes => 1 bundle, we could only ever return you small hides or small pelts, but never medium or big ones.

Which also will make it a bit more complicated for Hunter's Lodge, imagine you convert 3 raw fox hides to 1 hide bundle, then cut it, you would need to have a generic raw hide item them. The game looses track of what were the source ingredients so all hide bundles are the same.

• as for "preserving" the hide, oops, you are right, raw hide bundles don't rot ever. I think I'm gonna make them rot after like 2 or maybe 3 times the time as raw hide, the reasoning is you cleaned it and now it keeps a bit longer fresh, but it is still raw, unpreserved hide.

The "never rotting wasn't" intended, in VS even salted hides rot. (raw hide trousers never rot, but I don't know why they made it that way - maybe I can add a rot timer to them? 🙃

As for the "tag the leather bundle", this is unfortunately not implemented in VS at all. It is strictly "use this ingredient (with variants or not)" per recipe. If you want to have two different ingredient sets to return the same item, you need to have two recipies. Which is fine, but it often can result in hundres of recipe duplicates. Pls don't ask me how I know this.

[opal zenith]

I had a feeling that was case. I can read your manual entry pain in the text.

Your solution sounds great!

Except my rawhide pants rotting... Please don't take my trousers. 😅

You're right about rawhide and pelt being a bit more complicated, unfortunately, but I think it's a perfectly fine trade off. If I remember correctly a huge (or was it large?) hide transfers to three hide bundles. If you wanted them to convert back to medium/large/huge you could always add a recipe that takes x bundles plus awl in order to stitch together a medium or bigger hide/pelt. That would actually be a nice little quality of life change for folks who can't find large game. Stitch together a bunch of rabbit or fox hide and then you have a medium (or whatever size needed) for recipes which requires larger than a small hide/pelt.

Sorry to make things more complicated but I appreciate you looking.

[vapid bluff]

Rotting trousers would be pretty funny... the animals could smell you from 200 m away, and predators try to hunt you 😄

[opal zenith]

FotSA critters kill me enough already, nooooo! 😂

[vapid bluff]

Nah, it's fine. The thing is, the bundles are the solution to having different recipes with large/small/etc hides, so technically, you would never need a large or huge hide anymore. I bet I forgot some recipes, tho and some mods might add them, so a way to still get them is needed (esp. for hunters lodge!). I'll have a think about it and see what I can add to TD to at least help the conversion.

One point of my mods is that they often try to stop the crafting dead ends. E.g. craft cobble stone stairs and then never can recycle them back to stones or slabs etc.

Quick count on grid recipes:

• Wool: 81
• Tailor's Delight: 133
• Dressmakers: 249
• Bricklayers: 895 😮

[opal zenith]

Holy cow bricklayers is huuuuge.

For sure on the crafting dead ends, and we definitely appreciate that. It seems like mod compatibility is the thing that becomes difficult after a while. Having something like x bundles to medium/large/huge pelts and hides would mean even if you or the other theoretical mod maker didn't build in compatibility then it would still allow a route forward.

Speaking of crafting dead ends, the wool being able to be used for making sails has been a huge boon to us on our server. So thank you. 🙏

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, BL is my nemesis. The abyss that I stared into too long.
Plus mod compatibility, it seems nowadays I spent between 50% and 90% on fixing bugs and compatibility. 😵‍💫

[fiery zealot]

Jesus bricklayers is massive. Your clothing mods are almost entirely grid recipes and they don't even compare lol

[vapid bluff]

I've checked, hides in my testworld rot after 4 days in a vessel on surface, 5 in inventory and 19 in a vessel in a cellar. I think doubling this time for raw hide bundles will be fine and we can always adjust it later. 9 days is one month so this sounds already quite enough.

The whole "I'm hunting and save my hides for when I find lime + copper to make leather" is a bit of strange thing to me, anyway. Because you can throw them away and hunt fresh animals every time, it's not like you are loosing valuable things 🤔

Me thinks this is just the psychological problem that people will never want to lose anything, no matter how small, and the will complain bitterly about it, while ignoring that huge gain elsewhere they just got. 🙃

[opal zenith]

Yeah I'll just toss stuff I don't need, but devils advocate in that is how painful leather production is. We've been well into bronze age and been bottlenecked by leather production a few times when it comes to weapons/armor/backpacks/etc so I can understand the frustration.

Only reason I converted everything was because we did a no map cold start and had to pack up a 6 person camp on one sailboat and a raft for a loooong journey south to better climes. Seating and storage was at a premium. 😅

We're also playing with Biomes and FotSA which significantly reduces animal spawns since crittters only spawn in appropriate biomes. I'm at probably a quarter of my hunting production vs vanilla.

But yeah the idea for rotting times seems totally fair. I do miss ancient tools and it's brain tanning, but the changes you're discussing would make up for a lot of that. Plus the brain tanning method from that mod was a little too easy.

[vapid bluff]

This is very interesting to me, because we usually suffer from the other problem - way too much leather and not enough usage for it. We played with H&F and no other animal mod (except birds) but the wolf spawns. oh dear, the wolves... And the bears. Did I mention the bears? 😄

I might need to check out FoTSA. Thanx for the info!

[vapid bluff]

The biomes mod sounds interesting, but also not sure how it actually works. Do you have to travel 50,000 of blocks to the next biome, or are they more like small regional biomes maybe 10000 block across?
The mod itself has no real screenshots and I'm unsure how it works.

[opal zenith]

Have to ask @marble ore and the biomes creator (don't remember the name) about the exact details but it SEEMS to actually create large scale biomes. We traveled from a cold start zone almost 2 realtime hours south in a boat (at speed 4, thank you speedboat mod) and just barely started seeing different trees and rock types. Having said that, we're playing with no map so we easily could have missed transition zones or smaller biomes tucked within the larger. Hell, we've only found enough cattail to outfit us all with two reed bags. 😅

[vapid bluff]

That sounds very interesting for a challenging playthrough (and would make a great YT series).

[opal zenith]

Once everything settles down with all these updates, we are considering starting a large scale server with the same setup and completely random world spawns for exactly that reason. Admin can place players who are friends together but otherwise you have no idea where other players are and the only way to find them being actual exploration. Problem is figuring out how to disable Ctrl+f3 showing coordinates. Could be a real neat hardcore server.

[marble ore]

Replace the word biome with bioregions and it makes much more sense. You need to travel 1/6 the horizontal width of the world to travel from Europe to the Eastern side of North America for example, the southern hemisphere is made up of SA, Africa, Australia and Oceania and animals and plants spawn in their appropriate bioregions

[opal zenith]

We love it on our server. Much more rewarding exploration. Thanks for popping by to explain.

[marble ore]

I personally use it to create region themed play throughs rather than globe trotting. If you get into the realms file you can switch it up to create a different combo. Like maybe North America and South America only, or Europe and Africa or something wacky like Australia being the entire northern hemisphere and all eleven others being split between the south

[opal zenith]

Super Australia is an interesting choice. At least you haven't added all the ridiculously murderous insects and snakes and such. Otherwise that might have to be a hard pass on Australia bioregion. 😅

I'll quite hijacking the thread though. Thanks for explaining.

@vapid bluff
Jumping back, let me know if you need any help with anything. Seems like this is going to be a solid path forward for compatibility with other mods without requiring you to go manually enter recipes for a billion mod compats. Thank you!

[vapid bluff]

This is the 1.20 variant where I removed quite a few things (like colored shingles and and some clay bricks), the 1.19 version has 1045 grid recipes, and 1146 recipes overall.

Thought it would pale in comparisation to Expanded Foods, but this has only 323 grid recipes and 925 overall 😅

[fiery zealot]

When I was digging through those files it did seem like a monster of a mod to manage

[vapid bluff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjlM_RnsVE 😄

[vapid bluff]

I've had an idea:

• everybody can cut down leatherbundles with a knife and gets 1 leather out of it

• tailors can use a ruler and shears in stead, yielding 2 leather back

• everbody can cut down a raw hide or pelt or oiled hide bundle and gets 2 small pelts out of it (it takes 3 to make one)

• tailors can use a ruler and shears and a needle, and then also can make medium, large and huge hides (depending on amount and maybe 2 needles for a huge one)

Would strengthen the tailor class again.

[fiery zealot]

Tailor best class confirmed once again

[vapid bluff]

One might think this mod is all about tailors 🙃

Argl, bug, it takes only 1 leather to make a plain bundle 🙀 Need to fix that, it takes two of every other color.

Fixed.

I've just realized that converting an almost-rotten raw hide into a bundle will reset the timer, and if you convert it back, it resets the timer again. Can't do anything, that is a VS mechanic (happens with all blocks/items). At least it takes durability and clicks to do...

[opal zenith]

More fires to put out. X_x
Can't do anything about those kinds of vanilla bugs.

That's perfect though! Fits with the vanilla, allows a workaround for other mods, and allows the tailor more value.

Maybe consider allowing non-tailors to sew up hides/pelts into bigger variants but at a higher cost as the non-dextrous non-tailor fingers mess up the stitching? 🤣

[vapid bluff]

hm, not at the moment, already way too many recipes. And the tailor needs to be useful. I'm keeping it in mind, tho.

[vapid bluff]

Can feel the Heat of the Hate already rising 🔥
Top left: Linen sails for everyone, Top Right: Linen sails for Tailors.
Bottom row: Same, but with wool cloth

[opal zenith]

Seems solid to me. 🤷‍♂️

[opal zenith]

Totally fair considering how many recipes there are. I'm gonna have to dual class into tailor methinks. 🤔

[strange dragon]

I know I've pitched the idea before, but some way to cut hides into uniformly sized pieces (maybe scraped/prepared hide bundles?) for the leatherworking chain would be a godsend, if you're looking at leather content for the mod

[vapid bluff]

uh... I just removed in 1.9.0 scraped/prepared hide bundles, which were basically this idea, because there were "too many different hide/leather bundles" 😦 As a side-effect, you could use these bundles to make leather, too and they were, I think, the equivalent of one medium-hide.

[strange dragon]

ah.

[vapid bluff]

Of course, with Hunter's Lodge, you would get many different medium sized hide types, so yes, for this mod it might be a god idea to revive this as it would simplify the leather making.

In H&F you could always convert say wolf hide to VS medium hide and bypass this, but I'd like to disable this mechanic. A generic "hide bundle" would also bypass this 🤔

I need to think more about this and what the goal should actually be. Many ppl have oviously completely different opionions sometimes incompatible with each other 🤔

atm I'd rather leave the leather for the future in Hunter's Lodge and focus on getting something close to a finished mod here 🙂

[vapid bluff]

Raw hide bundles are still in and I could make it so you can soak them and get a "soaked medium hide" from it?

[strange dragon]

might work

[round kernel]

I'm not totally sure what to go for to get started on my tailor journey here, does anyone have tips of things I should do first?

[vapid bluff]

Hello kiln! I'd go first for some tools like needles, awls and rulers. You also might want to have a workshop where you can store tools and products. Cloth and thus linen and flax is an important thing for tailors, as well as leather, bones and other animal products.

[glad isle]

I made this compromise primarily to make a minimal impact on vanilla and modded content using the vanilla hides by making it mostly effortless to opt out while also allowing the use of the modded content, understandable if you wanted to have tighter control over that

[vapid bluff]

We've just released Tailor's Delight 1.9.2. This updates the Spanish translation, adds needles to the "linen sack" recipe and has quite a few tweaks to buttons & clasps:

• metal buttons & clasps can be melted down directly in a crucible. (they are small bits after all)
• reduced the chance to pan buttons slightly
• added high-tier buttons (gemstones, gold & silver) to some loot randomizers
• Lapis buttons can be crushed

Also Nadiyan leather can now be cooked with diluted cassiterite, too. This should make it a bit easier to obtain.

Hope you enjoy this, please get your fix from here: https://mods.vintagestory.at/tailorsdelight 🧵 🪡

[rapid wigeon]

could you add a way to undye cloth and twine/thread?

[vapid bluff]

I could, but why? And how would that mesh with the "realism" part of VS? 🤔

[strange dragon]

I mean you can already "bleach" wool from #1277235514457718804 with limewater, as far as realism
Dunno why though, it's not like you wind up with a lot of colored cloth without intending to

[vapid bluff]

I knew it was a mistake to include this 😦
It was intended so you can get rid of all the fibers that you gain from drifters and from panning. It always goes like this:

• users: heh, tels, can you add more stuff to your mod?
• me: sure, here is more stuff to do
• users: but now we got so much junk, can't you add recipes so we can get rid of it?
• me: sure, here are more recipes
• users: heh, why can't we do it with everything, can you please add more recipes to all of your mods?
• me: sure here is more recipes
• users: we hate so many recipes, can you pls add config options to turn them off?
• me: sure, here is config support
• users: now it's so confusing, we turned stuff off, but it didn't work with other stuff, can you please add more config options and doc?
• me: sure, here is doc and more options
• users: your mods are too big and use to much memory, can you please slim them down?
• me: sure I removed a bunch of minor features and I will not add three other three features
• users: NOOOOOOO! You betrayed us!

[strange dragon]

oh no no I meant like
"well this example of your work is pretty much how it would mesh with realism"
"I dunno why someone would request it though"

the #1277235514457718804 bleaching is a godsend, I wind up with so much grey wool
turning it into plain wool (which has more uses) is a great solution

[vapid bluff]

ah, ok, I misread the "realism" part. In my mind, "bleaching" is a very sketchy concept and I included it only in one case so you can use say "plain wool" to repair clothes (you can't repair them with grey cloth AFAIR).

I can of course add the same to both mods and add a config option to enable it.

[strange dragon]

(also bleaching quivit fibres to make the local clothier cry)

[vapid bluff]

I'll get onto this in the next release, thanx for the suggestion 🙂

[strange dragon]

idk why anyone would need to 'bleach' dyed cloth though
cloth by default comes plain
drifters drop plain cloth components
it's not like fleece, which comes in several shades naturally

[solar peak]

There's also no colored cloth in any loot pools afaik, so like ?

I adore TD and wool though, I've been using it so long I can't even remember the original recipes

[vapid bluff]

I've added this recently to Wool, but did not add similiar to TD. I don't think it means that you need to bleach colored twine, tho, because f.i. you can use colored twine to repair clothes. You just can't use them to craft windmills, which I think some people would rather do.
(In wool, you cannot use colored wool to repair clothes, which was a choice by me, but I could of course reverse this)

https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_wool/-/blob/main/assets/wool/patches/survival-blocktypes-clay-lootvessel.json

[solar peak]

I'm talking specifically about cloth bundles, the stuff you gotta intentionally dye for clothing, and linen/wool squares only come in different stitches rather than colors

So I just, don't see a need for un-dyeing cloth, personally

[vapid bluff]

Wool in Wool & More actually comes in different colors (but not with different stitches). just a minor correction.

[solar peak]

Yeah

And that's part of the fun

[vapid bluff]

I do agree, esp. since you can cut down cloth to twine with shears. And then maybe bleach the twines.

[solar peak]

Plus, there's something oddly satisfying about being able to make some lluxurious and rare clothing piece out of nothing but drifter drops

I am 6 qiviut fibers away from a very fine brown sweater

[vapid bluff]

This sweater was made by your grandma out of drifter drops. "Heh, watch how you talk about my grandpa, you jerk!"

[pine stratus]

You see "but now we have so much junk" is so opposite of the way I see it. "More is more" to me. And if you have seen any of my mods in other games like PZ:Hydrocraft or Civ4:C2C they would complain about too much junk. Don't listen to them! Make more stuff!! Especially in this game where details matter. Keep up the great work! And keep adding more cool stuff!!

Also I love synergy between mods. There is an infinite amount of stuff to make so splitting up the work between modders also helps.

[strange dragon]

meanwhile I turn all of mine into plain fibers because I can't use them

[pine stratus]

when the bone awl breaks it turns into a bone needle which for some reason cannot be used as a needle.

also cannot stack either

[vapid bluff]

Uh, wait, what? this is impossible, I'd say?

There is nothing mentioning needle in assets/tailorsdelight/itemtypes/tool/awl.json - I'm confused.

[vapid bluff]

can you please enable "extended develop info" in the settings and make a screenshot of that item?

Can't replicate it, completely used up an awl and it went poof

[pine stratus]

if it helps i was making bone buttons and clasps

[vapid bluff]

it must be some other mod interaction, because I don't know how a content mod like TD could "swap" an item for another when it breaks.

[pine stratus]

this is really spooky. I turned on devloper mode and now it won't make the needle. It jsut disapears like it normally should

[solar peak]

Tailor's Delight: Hallucinations Update

[vapid bluff]

I've looked into this, and in wool, you can "bleach" (undye) the fibers, but not the thread or clothes. In TD, there are no fibers (it is only plain flax fibers) so this wouldn't work here.

What I could do, tho, is add optional recipes that you can turn on with a config options. With these you could "bleach" say blue twine back to "plain flax twine". Would need to do the same for Wool, then, too, to be consistent.
And it's not really a cheap way to obtain flax, tho, it takes limewater (or borax) in a barrel + 4 days.

Alternatively, I could use something stronger than lime, say, sulphuric acid. But then it would probably just destroy the twine instead of de-coloring it 🤔

Is this what you had in mind?

[rapid wigeon]

something like that. basically I get insanely "lucky" and get a lot of colored fibers (twine, yarn, thread, etc) from cracked pot and mob drops, but I don't really use any of them. just feels like a waste.

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, I noticed that maybe the "colored" drops are bit too much. Esp. if you are swarmed by wolves and bears and/or drifters 🤔

I'm working on it for next weekend.

[rapid wigeon]

nah, the drop amount makes sense since fur is literally part of raw hides. I think just adding recipes is better.
hrmmm... maybe having a sulphuric acid or borax solution + colored fiber/thread/twine/cloth/etc. result in a certain number of "wet fibrous clumps" which can then be spun using a spindle+stick with clumps surrounding it into new plain twine

would give the spindle more use then just getting more twine per fiber

[vapid bluff]

That sounds like an idea, I'll think about it.

[rapid wigeon]

heh, maybe then we could get tie-dye clothes XD

[vapid bluff]

What are tie-dye clothes? 🤔 Oh I see, you, dynamically coloring cloth and fabric and clothes would be wonderful. Not doable with the current mod technique, tho.

[native lichen]

came to check if there was any mention of this, but it appears that the recipe for crafting seashell buttons instead of molding doesnt work :>

[vapid bluff]

Works for me. It might be a bit hard to spot in the handbook, but the order and placement and color of the shells does matter.

[rustic crypt]

@vapid bluff created merge request to fix error on ServerStartup. It's one of my first merge requests, I hope I did it correctly.

Error:

[Error] Grid Recipe with output Item code game:flaxtwine contains an ingredient that cannot be resolved: Item code wildcrafttree:driftwood
[Warning] Failed resolving crafting recipe ingredient with code wildcrafttree:driftwood in Grid recipe
[Error] Grid Recipe with output Item code game:cloth-plain contains an ingredient that cannot be resolved: Item code wildcrafttree:driftwood```
Fix: Driftwood is now vanilla.

[vapid bluff]

Thank you! I'll look into it, not sure how I could have overlooked this so far 🙂

The recipe needs to be moved from the compatibility folder to the main folder, I'll take care of it.

Actually, I can't checkout that branch, it is in a different repo. 🤔

[vapid bluff]

Could you please move these two recipes (with the game:driftwood) into this file assets/tailorsdelight/recipes/grid/twine.json and then delete the assets/tailorsdelight/compatibility/wildcrafttree/recipes/grid/flaxtwine.json?
Then I could merge it.

[rustic crypt]

I can try. 😄
New experience.

[vapid bluff]

Also, please mention either Closes #275 in the description of the MR or Fix #275 in the title of the MR, so this will related it to this issue and auto-close it:
https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_tailors_delight/-/issues/275

[rustic crypt]

Done.
Moved recipes.
Removed flaxtwine.json.
Changed description.

Let me know if it worked. 🙂

[vapid bluff]

Thank you, that looks better. I can't merge it tho, as the branch is in a different repo and our pipeline does not run for that 🤔 Need to think about how we can solve that.

[rustic crypt]

@me if I can/haveto do something. 🙂

[native lichen]

oh does it go by the shells' color?

[foggy ridge]

Tailor's delight more like inventory nightmare

bottom text

henlo how you doing :3

[vapid bluff]

Yes it does. Three of them are fixed, one has to be one of two different variations. Maybe I should make this recipe shapeles 🤔

[vapid bluff]

We've just released Tailor's Delight v1.94 🧵 🪡

• Can now soak raw hide bundles in lime or borax to craft soaked hides for leather
• Driftwood can be turned into sticks, remove broken Wildcraft driftwood patches
• Fix gray and brown brush craft
• Add Polish translation 🇵🇱 provided by Gengaroshi

Please update your patterns here: https://mods.vintagestory.at/tailorsdelight

[lyric kettle]

i got this CTD when shearing a herd of goats or sheep by keeping pressed the right mouse button and shearing

[vapid bluff]

This is a problem in ShearLib, not TD. And I'm not really sure I can fix this, didn't write the code and have to guess what might be wrong.
Have you tried to NOT keep the right button pressed, but instead click it once?

When exactly does it happen? When you try to shear an animal twice? When it was never sheared before?

It seems shearTree is NULL when the lib tries to fetch the last sheartime from it 🤔

[lyric kettle]

if i use a knife and just tao once i don't get the crash

[slow carbon]

this has probably been asked but is there a way to make the class locked recipes stop being class locked when i have that setting off in my world

i suppose i can edit a json file for what i need (basically just two recipes) but like i'd prefer to actually be able to use the mod if i have class exclusives turned off

[vapid bluff]

I don't understand the question. When you turn "class exclusive recipes" off in the VS settings, all class exclusive recipes become available to all. My mod is not different from the game (in fact, I don't even know how or why it would be different).

So, does this not work? If you turn it off, you still cannot craft certain things when you are the "wrong" class?

[slow carbon]

wait the tools are on the wrong side

(it still doesnt work when i correct it)

might be a bug in which case now you know

[vapid bluff]

hm, but that would be a bug in VS itself, I can't fix this as content-mods contain nothing that deals with class-exclusive recipe switch, all you do is add them to the recipe and let VS handle it.
Anywho, I'll check this recipe out, gimme a second.

[slow carbon]

alright!

would be nice since my only source of hides is boar which drop mediums and otherwise im never gonna be able to make sturdy leather

[vapid bluff]

Hm, but you don't need the hide bundles, you could just turn the hides into leather? confused

[slow carbon]

nah sturdy requires large or huge and i only have medium

[vapid bluff]

Also, are you perhaps trying to use "oiled hide bundles"? Only the raw ones can be turned into leather (like in VS)

[vapid bluff]

Oh, interesting, I've never thought about this or noticed it 🤦‍♂️ This is from vanilla. Seems the devs want to lock it behind you trying to hunt large animals. 🤔

My Nadiyan leather uses just "plain" leather pieces, which is then much easier. 🤔

Anyway, my intention was not really to let you craft "huge hides" from "medium hides", that is a by-product which I didn't through. The recipe should work, tho, let me check it pls.

[slow carbon]

i mean why else add the bundles being able to be recut into different sizes?

although tbh i dont think its that big a problem because im like 80% its the same amount of leather per hide no matter if it converts

[vapid bluff]

That was the intent behind the bundles - they standardize the amount if "hide/leather" per item. And the "cut to different" size was probably my completionist side 😅 I didn't think it would circumvent VS restrictions (which I'm very carefully trying to not do or only when I think they are silly)

[slow carbon]

ehh i mean the only "restriction" its circumventing in this case is forcing you to hunt for hide instead of doing animal husbandry (and if using medieval expandsion- the wrong kind of animal) so like

kinda who care

[vapid bluff]

I've looked at the sturdy leather recipe, and it is kinda silly. You absolutely need a large or huge hide as input, but then you get... small leather pieces as output 🤦‍♂️ I think I'm ok with my bundles circumventing this, esp. since it is a normally a tailor only thing.

[vapid bluff]

I can't replicate this. Did you restart your world after applying the world config? (or did you turn the recipe-exclusively off when creating the world?
What does /worldConfig classExclusiveRecipes print?

[slow carbon]

it was on when i made the world, turned it off via command, and then have restarted since

[vapid bluff]

true means it is still on.

[slow carbon]

wait am i stupid

i might be stupid then lmfao

my bad for buggin you with this in that case

[vapid bluff]

no worries, happens to the best of use 🙂

[slow carbon]

ty for helping me figure it out tho lol

i got stumped for an hour by a missing bracket in a json till i had my friend look at it lol

[vapid bluff]

phew so nothing to fix for me, that's good news. And thanx for bringing the whole "needs large or huge" hide to my attention.

[slow carbon]

yea

[clever granite]

Hi! I've been having a wonderful time with the mod, but I have a question about the wet brush.
By the durability and dry/crusted/wet states I assume that brushes are supposed to transition between them, but when I use the wet brush, sometimes it just vanishes out of my inventory. Drawing also doesn't reduce durability or anything. Is this intended behavior?

[vapid bluff]

The game has a hard-coded chance of 15% to "delete" the item you use to "draw" on signs or chests - this is a game code that I cannot change for my items, unfortunately.
Also, I don't think drawing on signs or chest reduces the durability, again, a problem in the game itself, and not intentional from my side.

[clever granite]

No problem, thank you for clarifying!

[vapid bluff]

🧵 We just released Tailor's Delight 1.9.6 🪡 🪢

• Bridles now need an awl and leather strips instead of leather pieces to craft
• Adds a full French translation, thank you, Wailwolf! 🇫🇷

Get your new patterns from https://mods.vintagestory.at/tailorsdelight

[foggy ridge]

I have a question...
Since all clothing and armor is now essentially harder to craft, wouldn't it make sense that it's also worth more, in terms of armor quality and selling price? That'd be a good implementation i think.

[vapid bluff]

IMO many prices should be adjusted, esp. some of the royal/prince/fancy gear can be sold either for way too much or way too little.
Sadly, adjusting selling prices is very tedious, as you need to patch the various trader lists and this requires you to know the index the item you want to patch beforehand. These patches easily break (when VS or a mod adds another item in front of the list).

As for the armor, I definitely feel the whole armor systems needs an overhaul. The metal armors require SOO much ingots for little improvements unless you go either iron or steel. Hence ppl use tailor gambeson as soon as the can and almost the entire game, anyway...

The leather armor is nice, but there is no upgrade (no sturdy leather armor) and if there was, it would require end-game equipment like pulverizers and cromite from deep caves - at this point you will have iron chain or something like that, anyway.
And just fiddling with the numbers requires extensive playtesting to not accidentily break the game 😩
So overhaulting the whole armors is a daunting thing and many mods that do this already exist, anyway, and I'd rather not go down this rabbit hole at this moment. Still haven't added cotton or jute to Wool & More and still have so many other ideas for Tailor's, too.

That being said, I do have some ideas about armors, esp leather armors. But ideas >>> time 🙂

[toxic plaza]

It'd be nice to have more 'endgame' leathers/cloth, because we've got hunters and tailors and such. It doesn't make sense for them to be loaded down in plate.

[vapid bluff]

This is very true and I have... ideas 😶‍🌫️

[foggy ridge]

Gamboised body armors are uncraftable FYI

[vapid bluff]

Nobody reported this before and this doesn't happen for me:

$ ack "Grid.*sewn" *.log
te@te-gaming:~/games/vs_config/VintagestoryData_v1.20/Logs

This is the original recipe:

        {
                ingredientPattern: "L_L,MMM,LSL",
                recipeGroup: 1,
                requiresTrait: "clothier",
                ingredients: {
                        "L": { type: "item", code: "cloth-*", quantity: 1, name: "color", allowedVariants: ["plain", "blue", "brown", "gray", "black", "green", "orange", "pink", "purple", "red", "white", "yellow"], },
                        "M": { type: "item", code: "cloth-*", quantity: 2, name: "color", allowedVariants: ["plain", "blue", "brown", "gray", "black", "green", "orange", "pink", "purple", "red", "white", "yellow"], },
                        "S": { type: "item", code: "sewingkit", quantity: 1 }

                },
                width: 3,
                height: 3,
                name: "gambeson body armor",
                output: { type: "item", code: "armor-body-tailored-{color}-linen"  }
        },

Are you maybe using different mods that tweak armor recipes, too?
In any event I won't be able to do any workaround or compatibility patches for the next two weeks, sorry.

[foggy ridge]

That was the case, thank you

[vapid bluff]

I'm curious, which mod was it?

[foggy ridge]

Cheaper Armor, of all things

[torpid bone]

theres that one item that allows drawing patterns on fabric
forgot its name and no clue how to use it ingame

how do i use it?

[vapid bluff]

It has no usage in Tailor's Delight, nor in other (published mods). Maybe later 🙂

[torpid bone]

damn...

[vapid bluff]

sorry 🙂 I had high plans but then RL interfered 🙃

[torpid bone]

happens

[torpid bone]

btw
I have class restrictions disabled
but somehow cant craft the wooden Spindle

[vapid bluff]

That must be a VS bug then, my mod does nothing special in this regard. You have to file a bug with the game developers, sorry.

[torpid bone]

I think re-downloading the mod might be an option, just incase its my pc

i have a bit of a power supply issue, cause the pc is hooked to an old power network on which a rather potent solar array is also hooked onto. So some data being lost is also a possibility

[pine stratus]

@vapid bluff the shear amount of work you do is astounding! 🐑

[vapid bluff]

I've done some pre-liminary testing on 1.21.0-pre.1 and everything looked ok, except recipes that use VS clay bowls. I've fixed these and pushed a pre-release onto the ModDB.

Please post here if you find any problems running it under 1.21. Thank you for your support! 🤍

[torpid bone]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/americanfrontiersman
I need to check how to make a patch for this mod
outfits are really nice but its a bit annoying having to convert my rolls of pelt into pelts again

[vapid bluff]

It's probably easy, but a bit cumbersome. I'll check it out, thanx!

[pine stratus]

i found a recipe issue with the Plain Cloak and Dressed to Kill mod's Homespun Shirt. Please make these mods compatible with each other since more clothes the better!

[vapid bluff]

Is this a Tailor's Delight recipe?

[pine stratus]

Also could you add some belts? Like a vine, rope, leather or sturdy leather belts?

[pine stratus]

i thought it was

says simple cloth. but i didn't think that mod worked anymore

oh i guess I still have it nevermind!

for some reason i thought it got absorbed into your mod

[vapid bluff]

hm, yeah, it is a silly mistake on TD; I patch in a new recipe for their shirt and have my own conflicting recipe 🤦‍♂️

[vapid bluff]

I'd rather not add new clothing items atm. VS seems to break stuff faster than I can fix it, sry.

[pine stratus]

no worries. I was just surprised that were was a very limited selection of belts. Keep up the great work dude!

[vapid bluff]

last I looked at this, there were a few mods that added rope belts etc. and if you have Dressmakers, you can craft lots of belts so I didn't see the need to make my own belts. (plus, time constraints)

[pine stratus]

@vapid bluff is Nadiyan Leather based on a specific leather making process? If so what is it?

[vapid bluff]

It's based on the specific leather making process called Fantasy™ 😉

In TD, there was once something called "thin" leather to be used in fancier dresses. It was crafted by just putting a hamer + leather into your grid IIRC.
When VS "invented" the Nadyians, I've simple renamed it and used on of the new cooking recipes to craft it. Just so that Nadyian clothing recipes can use something fancier, something for the endgame.

[pine stratus]

ah ok. well if you wanted to make it like "fine leather" i had an idea. What if vegetable oil was used to make the leather? I have seen it used in other games to make "soft" leather.

[vapid bluff]

interesting idea, but there is no oil in VS, tho. (and even if added by a mod, its probaby not end-game but rather early game, right)

[pine stratus]

I know the Oils! Mod has it and I think Expanded Foods too. And yeah more mid game since you need a fruit press to get the oil. So at least copper age.

Still having an alternative recipe for it would be cool if you had either of those mods.

[spring hatch]

@vapid bluff Hey Sorry if this is an annoying request, but I was thinking it would be neat if the hunter class could craft some of the Nadyian fur and tooth accessories, since I would think a hunter would likely be able to make the stuff, especially the tooth jewelry.

[vapid bluff]

That would be more a topic for Dressmakers, I think. I'll think about it.

[spring hatch]

Sorry, I didn't mean to ask on the wrong discord lol

[vapid bluff]

no worries, it's not easy 😄

[worldly ravine]

Hey! I've been having an issue with missing textures, showing a white box with a red questionmark, have anybody experienced that?

[vapid bluff]

Sounds like the mod isn't even loading at all. Please check your server logs and make sure you use the right mod version for the right VS version.

[worldly ravine]

Hey, yeah I tried both on Single player with locally installed mod and on friends server - it works fine for all the other 3 players but me.

And we all used the exact same game config etc.

[vapid bluff]

Are there any errors in the logs?
You could also try to clear your VS cache (with the "unpacked") directory, sometimes this can cause problems with old mod versions being around.

[worldly ravine]

Will try that - from what I checked there are no errors, I tried to reload textures and meshes but didnt really work

[vapid bluff]

are just the textures not there, or also the items/blocks?
What is your texture atlas size?

[worldly ravine]

I changed that to 8192 or whatever was the amount

Will test the unpacked wipe and see

[worldly ravine]

Thank you - seems like the unpacked was the problem.

[summer jackal]

anybody know how to make the lapis lazuli buttons and clasps?

@vapid bluff

[sleek shoal]

buy it from traders 😛

or find in ruins

[summer jackal]

theres no way to craft them?

[vapid bluff]

No, this is by design, you have to find tem (in some high-level loot in story locations) or buy them, either from an artisan trader, or another player.

[summer jackal]

Got it thanks for the reply

[vapid bluff]

Are they so super-rare that I should add them to maybe other traders or other loot vessels?

[karmic hinge]

I dont mean to sound rude or unapreciative, i love this mod...but where are the hats/headgear? Am i just blind (likely) is the a search refinement or class for hats Ican do to find them in game?

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight does not really add new clothings to the game, it's more about the mechanics and recipes.
If you are looking for a mod that let's you craft the existing VS headgear, look for Dressmakers (the ModDB page for it also lists a few other mods that add recipes for VS clothing).

As for adding more clothing to the game, I'd love to do that, but currently have no spare time and resources for this. Sorry.

[karmic hinge]

Tysm

[solar peak]

I'm curious, with the addition of the bark leathers from ancient tools, would you be able to add them as alternatives to dyed leather in valid recipes? AT already adds that for a few basic things, like pine leather can be used in place of orange dyed leather for a few items

Or did you do that already and I'm just out of the loop

plus, brain tanning from ancient tools now yields buckskin rather than actual leather, which would be a great option for fine, soft leathers like Hydro was asking about

[vapid bluff]

I'm struggling to update my mods for 1.21 so working on compatibility with Ancient Tools isn't possible right now. Maybe the author of AT has time for it?

[solar peak]

That's fine - I could possibly volunteer once I've gotten a few other things squared away

Love me some cross-mod compat even if I have to do it myself

Time to refresh on recipe patching... aww yea

[dull fog]

Does the pattern set have a purpose yet?

[vapid bluff]

no, its not used at all. And I've removed it from the mod for the next version.

[vapid bluff]

I've added that to the next version of TD for 1.21 - but Simple Cloth is rather broken. Tons of recipe errors and many of the clothes have invisible parts in the GUI. I will not fix Simple Cloth, it's not my mod and I have my hands already full.

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight 2.0.0 for VS 1.21 has been released to the ModDB.

[pine stratus]

Can you patch the Horn Needle to use the Gemsbok Horns from the Lichen Continued mod? Thanks!

https://mods.vintagestory.at/lichencontinued

[stable cedar]

Hello , i was wondering if you could make the Tailors Delight mod compatible with Vanilla Variants Mod?

[vapid bluff]

I don't have any plans for that.

[somber hemlock]

anyone else having issues using the sewing kit recipe with needles?

[vapid bluff]

are the needles at 100% or are have they reduced durability?

[somber hemlock]

needles dont have durability for me

[vapid bluff]

but the recipe does still not work? I've tried it and it works for me. On what VS version and TD version are you?

[somber hemlock]

i figured it out, was the way i was laying it out in grid

[vapid bluff]

phew 🙂

[sullen glade]

With the addition of bone knapping, placing bone piles is not possible, because they use the same keys.

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight does not have bone knapping, and placing bone piles just works? 🧐

[sullen glade]

My bad, i confused it, apparently bone knapping comes from butchering

[wind scarab]

it may have been asked but how does Tailors delight work with class mods where no class has the tailor trait?

[vapid bluff]

I guess it doesn't work? It's like asking "if I disable hammers in game, can I still crush ore with hammers?" 🙂

[wind scarab]

ah, i was hoping there might be a work around.. okay thank you ^_^

[vapid bluff]

Unless these mods provide a work-around themselves. VS also has tailor-specific recipes and these won't work then, either.
(I've also never heard of such a mod and it seems silly to disable an entire class, but heh...)

[wind scarab]

the racial equity ability mods replace all the classes with race specific ones and i couldnt find clothier in any of the screenshots that were posted which is what inspired the question

[vapid bluff]

There is always the nuclear option of turning of "class specific recipes".

[wind scarab]

True, we ended up going with the working classes mod for the server instead of racial ability though so we dont need to flip that switch at least.

[foggy ridge]

Maybe we could have a, though it's very dumb of me to even suggest this, patch that comments out the trait requirement from every tailor recipe.

[vapid bluff]

This would be a massive patch and I don't want to maintain that just because somebody else made a mod that breaks the game tailor class. Tailor's Delight is there to make tailor's useful, I don't particular care about ppl that don't care about tailors 😉

[rich badge]

any way to make the gambeson both normal and tailored take either brown thread or dark brown?

[vapid bluff]

I've tried to make the gambeson recipes take thread that matches their colors, but this is a bit complicated as the recipe in VS is only one recipe for all of them.
Do you mean I should instead completely reverse that and make them take all the same thread color? Why?

Darkbrown thread is more difficult to make and tailored gambeson should be more difficult to make, hence the requirement for darkbrown thread.
Likewise, what use would the new colors be if they aren't actually used in recipes?
Sometimes I get the impression people would love to have new stuff, except they hate new stuff and would rather have a simplistic MC-style game where slapping a hammer on a cactus gives you green dye instantly... 🙃

[rich badge]

I see your point, nevermind then!

[fickle star]

I want new stuff that is more involved to make. 🥺 👉👈 Thanks for all the mods you make! I appreciate them a lot!

[vapid bluff]

It is a legitimate question, tho, so don't worry, and sorry that my mod doesn't fit your expectation. And sorry if the response was a bit snarky.

[fast socket]

I wish clothing wasn't so closely tied to specific colors. Like I feel there should be a scarf object and if you use green cloth its green, if you use blue cloth its blue. Not the only way to get a scarf is to match this recipe with these colors specifically.

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, currently this would be only possible if we add more "item variants", or use a library that let you retexture the output items.
This needs to be a general solution in VS, not something that can be fixed by mods without a gigantic amount of work.

[wind grove]

Is it intended that pelt bundles can only be placed in ground storage in the quadrant style, or are they supposed to be placable like the cloth bundles in piles? Not sure if I have a mod overwrite somewhere and my knowledge of the game's database isn't good enough to be able to tell the differences between the mod's cloth.json and leatherbundle.json

[wind grove]

Oh, and was it an intentional decision to not allow pelt bundles to be used for things like the hunter's backpack?

[vapid bluff]

The "stacked" ground storage for leather and cloth bundles is a new 1.21 thing and I have simply not had time to change some of the "four quadrant" style ground storage over to them. Pelt bundles f.i. predated 1.21 by quite a long time 🕰️
As for the hunter's backpack - I've simply missed this as usual, exprienced players simply skip the hunter backpacks by just speedrunning around and collect enough flax to go to linen sacks, anyway. 🙂
I'll make a note to allow pelt bundles in these recipes. Thank you for your feedback! 🥰

[wind grove]

Good to know! Looking forward to a later update.

for my own curiousity, how DO you determine how they stack, what JSON key is it that determines that?

[vapid bluff]

It's:

{ "name": "GroundStorable", "properties": { "layout": "Messy12", "collisionBox": { "x1": 0, "y1": 0, "z1": 0, "x2": 1, "y2": 0.125, "z2": 1 } } }

or

{ "name": "GroundStorable", "properties": { "layout": "Quadrants", "collisionBox": { "x1": 0, "y1": 0, "z1": 0, "x2": 1, "y2": 0.125, "z2": 1 } } },

or:

                { name: "GroundStorable", properties: { layout: 'Stacking',

etc.

[wind grove]

ah, I thought I was looking at the right file, but maybe I wasn't?

they were both "quadrants" for me

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, I now remember why leather is still using quadrants: my fear was if I change it, ppl upgrading their world might lose leather stacked on the ground. Also, you can no longer stack 4 different colors into one block.

So I only made the new raw leather stack into piles. I think I'll also do it for the pelt bundles, as there is only one variant.

Not sure if I change leather bundles and checkered cloth over 🤔

This is the new one:

                { name: "GroundStorable", properties: { layout: 'Stacking',

[wind grove]

ah that's unfortunate

er, understandable

it's 3am right now...

[vapid bluff]

get some sleep 🙂

[wind grove]

gotta go get like 200 full stone blocks to make my cellar out of

actually, maybe I'll do cobble instead

[vapid bluff]

There are definitely some items that I can change from quadrants, like leatherstrips. I'll make a note for the next release.

[pine stratus]

Can you please add a recipe to allow bone needles and bone awls to be made from the new small bones in vanilla? Thanks!

[wind grove]

Am I crazy, or are there no metal needles? It'd be nice to bulk cast them.

[small sigil]

@vapid bluff recently in butchering I changed how my bone needles are crafted as people were unable to place down normal bone so I branched my knapping system to a new 'strong bone' and made my needles grid craftable from small bones. - this does have some historical accuracy as fish bones were sometimes used for needles.

Could you please either allow my needles to be crafted again or change them for your (better looking) model?

Many thanks,
Oats.

[vapid bluff]

I don't quite understand, why would my mod prevent your needles from being crafted if your only use "small bone"?
Also, @pine stratus wouldn't that then exactly conflict with the request from CaptanOats?

Also, needles in Tailor's Delight are a grid crafting recipe on purpose - it will otherwise conflict with too many other mods and VS bone stacking.
In addition, I've purposeful ignored the small bones - technically, you would either use ONLY small bones (which would annoy people) or I'd need to change it so "1 small bone = 1 needle and 1 large bone = 2 needles".
There are way to many interactions to change these things.

[vapid bluff]

Since needles are a one-time-usage item, it would be a waste to use metal. You can craft a stack of them in your grid when you take a stack of bones, so I don't see the need for bulk-casting, either.

[small sigil]

I'm pretty certain your mod removes my needles so I need people to be able to craft them? Maybe it's not your mod then?

What's the other big tailoring mod called again?

Unless that's yours aswell :p

[vapid bluff]

I only have Dressmakers, Tailor's Delight and Wool & More and I don't remember any of them "removing" any needles. Let me check pls 🙂

AH.. 🤦‍♂️ It is Tailor's Delight.

  {
    "op": "addmerge",
    "path": "/enabled",
    "value": "false",
    "file": "butchering:itemtypes/tool/needle.json",
    "side": "Server"
  },

Sorry for that. Too many mods, too many things to keep track of. I'll remove all these patches.

[small sigil]

No worries at all I was worried I had gotten the wrong mod for a sec

I guess now though I need my own model for needles. Le sigh

[vapid bluff]

https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_tailors_delight/-/issues/303

[vapid bluff]

You can easily just use mine.

[small sigil]

I would really appreciate it or at least until I make my own

[vapid bluff]

I'm not entire sure what it would entail to make your needles to be "replaced" with mine when both mods are installed. That would need some lengthy investigation and I had high hopes I could FINALLY make some new content instead of chasing bugs and incompatibilities every week 😩

[vapid bluff]

The are under the GPL v3, but I'll give you permission to use the model under any license you wish. It's a simple model, anyway 🙂

[small sigil]

What! New content! Don't be silly. To the bug dungeons with you!

[vapid bluff]

What are needles use for in butchering?

[small sigil]

It's more just an aditional thing you can do with bone as I wanted to try to make sure all the stuff that comes from an animal is used

But you can make sewing kits with sinew or leather

[vapid bluff]

So, I guess if I disabled your needles, and instead made a recipe to make my needles from small bones, and add recipes for sewing kits with sinew, that would be good? 🤔
The "sewing kits from leather" would be a bit conflicting, as my mod adds leather strips and awls and these are used for all leather works.

oh and I see you have a "bone needle kit", too. Which is used only in sewing kit crafting it seems. Since my "sewing kit crafting" uses already a bone needle.. hm. 👀

[small sigil]

Don't worry that will get tossed out because I forgot to do it before

Bascially the kits will just need needles now

Unless you think I should keep them?

I only had them to complicate the recipes 😛

But now it seems kinda dumb

[vapid bluff]

no, I think they just needlessly complicate the recipe 🙂

[small sigil]

kk good feedback

[vapid bluff]

I'll come up with something, but not now, I need a break atm.

[small sigil]

Now worries I will send a message once I remove the needle kits

So you aren't making two changes for me

[wind grove]

Wait, you can grid-craft needles? I must have missed that, I thought it was knapping only.

[vapid bluff]

I don't know where people get the idea that needles can be knapped - Tailor's Delight has only grid crafting for bone and horn needles.

Maybe you confused it with "stitching awls" which can be knapped from flint?

[wind grove]

No, I've got a four-needle knapping recipe - must be a different mod, possibly butchery

I'll check when I have a moment

[vapid bluff]

Butchering has a 12-needle knapping recipe in the newest release 1.8.1 and also in 1.6.7.

If you ever find out, I'd like to hear about which mod this is so I can tell ppl to stop pestering me 😄

[wind grove]

[small sigil]

@vapid bluff Just updated my Butchering with the changes that we spoke about before; removal of 'needle kits' and just having needles with two recipes for making sewing kits with them that you can remove or do anything with (I would like to keep the sinew one if that's okay).

Didn't use your needle in the end and will stick with my bad png for now (maybe motivation for me to change it?).

Also needles are now still just 1 small bone with a knife to 1 needle

[vapid bluff]

wonderful, I'll see that I put an update out soon. I'd keep the sinew recipe, it sounds really logical 🙂

[vapid bluff]

My bad, it turns out TD had a bone needle knapping recipe, but only if butchering was installed. I'll take that out for the next release.

[wind grove]

[pine stratus]

Oh I like the idea of small = 1 and normal = 2. Perhaps the butcher mods sturdy bone can = 4 or something. Idk

[vapid bluff]

There is a small issue with the handbook text, under Bucthering Info it says "can knapp arrow heads and needles".
Nothing big, tho 🙂
Working on the compatibility atm.

[vapid bluff]

@small sigil
I like Hydromancers suggestion that the sturdy bones could become 4 needles (I think I'd make it 3 but heh, thats just me 🙂
However, you have this in them:

        "grindingProps": {
                "groundStack": { "type": "item", "code": "game:bonemeal" }
        },

If they are bigger, shouldn't they result in like 3 or 4 bonemeal, then?

@small sigil Oh, and you can remove all these from your mods, they are no longer used in VS (since 1.18 or so) 🙂

        "fpHandTransform": {

[small sigil]

Yeah I really need to update my handbook, it's gotten very old by now.

I kinda had hoped to only have small bones used as needles from a thematic point of view (like how would you get a needle from a normal bone unless you mega carved it?) But maybe I'm being too harsh.

I tend to leave loads of shiz in my mods that is either not needed or wip so I need to go and see what needs removal.

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, now that we have small bones, I think carving needles from large bones is a bit silly. But then, in TD, one can make horn needles and flint needles so restricting needles to small bones sounds equally silly 🙂

Have two more items open for the next TD release, it will be ready tomorrow I hope.

https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_tailors_delight/-/milestones/42#tab-issues

[somber hemlock]

I a large enough bone can provide usuable splinters that can then be carved and sharpened

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight v2.1.0 has been released to the ModDB!

**===> BEFORE YOU UPDATE: Pick up all ground stored cloth, leather or pelt bundles, twine, leather strips etc. or you might be left with empty ground storage piles and your items will be gone! <===
**

There are sadly none of the new features, but plenty of tweaks and bugfixes:

• Compatibility with the newest Butchering mod - also allows now placing of bones on the ground again
• Use the new 1.21 ground "stacking" feature for cloth, leather, pelt, leather strips and twine
• Craft bone needles from small bones
• New bear pelts with or without head can be turned into pelt bundles
• Rulers are sold/bought by more traders (handbook does not show this properly, this is a VS bug)
• Leather jerkin body/leg armor needs dark blue leather
• Various tweaks and little recipe fixes

Please enjoy! 🧵

[plush marlin]

Just an info. The mod Repair Me cause a crash when looking at Tailor delight brush in the Handbook.
This is of course not Tailor Delight fault, but i wanted to mention it in case someone else has the same problem so they can easily find the answer.

[finite mulch]

Using rc3 with 2.1.0 mod version, the "remove" bit in the survival-recipes-grid-clothes-black.json patch throws an error for me because it can't find "requiresTrait" as a path.
I had a look at the jsons myself but I honestly don't know what's wrong here because all i can normally do is fix typos lol

[vapid bluff]

it's probably because either VS shuffled around recipes (so my patch targets the wrong recipe), the files or removed it themselves. I'll have a look once the stable version is out. maybe tomorrow.

[finite mulch]

I'll check tomorrow whether it still pops up in my errors. Maybe it's cache-cleaning time lol

[alpine sphinx]

Hide Bundles lack Salted equivalent

[fossil sleet]

Hi, I'm just here to ask how the wooden spindle works.

[vapid bluff]

Can only used by tailors and you use it in the crafting grid. Use stick + fibers to make twine. Please look at the handbook, it shows the recipes.

[hallow cosmos]

I have a really dumb question. I can't seem to get the nadiyan leather to work. I get a pot, do the exact measurements of diluted cassiterite, weak tanin, powered lead, leather in a pot but nothing, It says no recipe and when I cook it nothing.

[vapid bluff]

Could you please post a screenshot? On what VS and TD version are you?

[vapid bluff]

I cannot replicate this with VS 1.21.4 and TD 2.1.0

[hallow cosmos]

Yeah I'm completely confused. I hopped back onto my server (VS 1.21.0 TD 2.0.0) to take a screenshot and I put it in how I was before and its working now... Thanks for looking into it, sorry that my server was being an idiot.

[vapid bluff]

I've made it so that the Nadiyan miner belt + lantern provides dim light. You can either buy it, or craft it if you have Dressmakers.

[vapid bluff]

Now we need a similiar belt for blackguards - they need a belt light the most, fighting with shields in dark tunnels and whatnot...

[vapid bluff]

It seems recipes for dark (X) cloth panels and others are missing. Don't know how long, but it must be pretty long. Which makes me question if it is actually worth having these items in the mod when not only nobody could craft them, but also nobody ever noticed until now 🤔

[pine stratus]

Please make a space suit so i can explore Mars! 🚀

[dull fog]

We already are remaking galacticraft?

[pine stratus]

I don't know what that is but I know this ...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=french&id=732754899

[pine stratus]

@vapid bluff look!
https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/34327

[vapid bluff]

Nice. Maybe I can then stop thinking about adding my hand-loom. And hopefully now ppl don't ask me to add compatibiity for the wheel...

[worldly thunder]

Working on making it more compatible and configurable right now!

[worldly thunder]

I figured I'd ask here since people who look at this chat in discord are more likely to be involved. I'm going to make it so wool twine from Wool & More can be converted to thread on the wheel, so like an upgrade from consumable needles.
I'm also going to increase the spinning time it takes though and keep it at a 2:2 ratio like the needle.
Currently i'm going to set it to 8 seconds (increased from 6 seconds) but if anyone plays with my spinning wheel let me know if this feels too short or long or if it could be balanced better for this mod!
This'll be like plying the twine into thread

Patch is not out yet though will update this comment when it is
Patch is out

[vapid bluff]

Just to recap:
One can:

• make 4 fibers into 1 (colored or plain) wool twine
• or use the wooden spindle and make 3 fibers into 1 (colored or plain) wool twine
• or use the spinning wheel to make 2 fibers into 1 wool twine
• Convert 2 wool twine into 2 colored thread from TD with 1 consumable needle.

About the last point: Tailor's Delight also has colored threads, which are just colored flax twine. When Wool & More is active, I didn't think it was good design to replicate all recipes that use colored threads, so I've added a converting recipe that uses "1 needle and 2 wool twine" to create "2 colored thread" so you have a way to use your wool even if the recipe says "need thread".
And the 2:2 ratio is only so you don't have to use so many needles while converting. (Needles can't have durability for other reasons)

So you are saying the last step (converting) can also be made at the spinning wheel? 🤔

I do think the time should probably be shorter, tho, as needles are very cheap - you can craft an entire stack at once in your crafting grid from bones.
OTOH, it saves you to collect bones or horn, so it might be worthwhile even with 8 seconds crafting time?
8 seconds * 64 is 8.5 RL minutes for a stack, that sounds bad for mass-producing. 🤔

[worldly thunder]

Yeah I feel like I'm leaning too heavy in to time constraints and instead of it being fun or cool it's just long and tedious.
But yes I made it so you can convert wool into thread. I'll probably half it, I just think anything less than 4 seconds is rather instant but I'm open to suggestions!

[pine stratus]

Perhaps a mechanical spinning wheel too? Like the same one but the ability to hook it up to mechanical power like a quern.

Could have the same output but just do it in less the time

So like ...
Craft Grid = instant but wastes materials.
Unpowered spinning wheel = more efficient but takes time
Powered spinning wheel = fast and efficient

[worldly thunder]

possibly, we'll see, I think a mechanically powered water frame could work like in this video but I think I'm just gonna work on getting the drop spindle implemented next and disable the crafting grid outright.

https://youtu.be/2tNidQS2vg4

[vapid bluff]

Proudly filmed on a potato. 😄

[signal holly]

I was told about the situation and i hope the water frame i discussed in my thread that i was going to make since the 28th will fill the void of thread making automation o7

[vapid bluff]

Looks fantastic!

[pine stratus]

Are you going to do a more primitive one too?

I recently saw a video with one included

https://youtu.be/ZumJtM7Qc54?si=y1WgeSfBGCdWudxM

They had hanging stones and such for weaving

[worldly thunder]

weaving is different than spinning, I am planning on adding a loom which is what you have pictured here just primitive versions.
I'm just trying to think of a good way to technically make it gameplay wise, like the barn loom I can just add in the same as the spinning wheel where you are just sitting and crafting or I would like to make it more interactable if possible.
Maybe I should look into that rope making mod for inspiration for primitive looms

[pine stratus]

Oh I thought that was a mechanical loom not a mechanical spinning wheel! Sorry for the confusion!

[worldly thunder]

all good haha, that's mechanized version of the spinning wheel is what he's showing off

[vapid bluff]

I've a hand loom on my TODO list for TD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loom#/media/File:Tropenmuseum_Royal_Tropical_Institute_Objectnumber_403-150_Toestel_voor_het_vervaardigen_van_kral.jpg

[worldly thunder]

have you thought about having it be implemented as more than just a crafting recipe item?

[vapid bluff]

I don't do code for mods 🙂

[worldly thunder]

well that answers that haha

[vapid bluff]

If any of you are using the Wool & More mod, please head over to #1277235514457718804 message and vote in the poll about organic fertilizer from fleece. Thank you 🙂

[trail smelt]

ow, i got stabbed in back by this mod lol

normally its pretty easy to get tailored gambesson even in artic

but with tailors it requires brown thread

which i cant get untill those oak seeds i planted will grow

[vapid bluff]

😅

You can convert brown wool twine into TD's brown thread with a needle, tho. And you should be able to get some brown fleece or fibers from drops, or bye them from a trader.
The "non-tailored" gambeson can also be bought, I believe.

[trail smelt]

oh, i didnt knew you can tailor wool to threads, ty

[vapid bluff]

I've added that specifically so that I don't have to add thousand recipe variants. It's in the handbook, but maybe easily overlooked.

[trail smelt]

thats actually ver helpful, thank you!

tailored gambesson is very good with CO

[vapid bluff]

Tailored Gambeson is good in general, all the metal armors are just so wasteful on material for almost no benefit. I never used CO (Combat overhaul, I think) so I can't comment on that.

Anyway, I've looked into the panning drops. Wool & More does indeed add a bunch of fibers to the bony soil but TD does not, it only adds metals. Maybe I should add a very low chance to get brown or dark brown thread.
(Which will then ppl have complain they get "too much junk" 🙃

[trail smelt]

i think its fine as it is right now

no need to change anything

i play under niche world settings

[vapid bluff]

true 🙂

[trail smelt]

oh, this means i can get black threads as well, since i have looted a lot of black wool from ruins

ah nvm, it needs DARK brown thread, i only can get brown thread by tailoring wool

[vapid bluff]

but can't you dye brown wool into dark brown wool, then convert it? Let me check pls.

Ah, it needs tanin to dye it. Thought one could also use black dye 🤔

Man I should remember my own recipes 🧠

As for the gambeson, I had though that making a "black-brown flat belt" (or something) and then let you use this in the crafting process. This not only would add another belt, it would also allow maybe this belt by sold by the clothing trader or part of ruin lot. The "just use three darkbrown spindles of thread" looked always a bit sus to me.

[trail smelt]

its only allows tanin for making dark brown thread

its okay, in a month or two oak should grow, and i need tanin for leather anyway

[trail smelt]

that would very cool solution, yeah

[vapid bluff]

Do you think this is a sensible restriction, or should black dye be allowed to "darken" the brown thread, too?

Looking at it in the handbook, I see now that black is exclusively used for green and gray, and brown, red and blue use other colors do darken them. I guess I did put some thought into this. 🧠

[trail smelt]

i think it makes sense, yes

but you dont have adjust the mod solely based on minor inconvinience im having
thats why i play in artic really 😂

[vapid bluff]

no worries, I'll won't adjust it needlessly just for you. Unless you pay me big stacks of monies 💰 💶 😂

In earnest, I've had arctic explorers and harsh winters and balancing in my mind, but it is hard to judge unless I play it myself or find someone like you reporting the experience. This is invaluable feedback and I will of course carefully consider changing the mods. And the less changes, the less work for me and the lesser the chance I break something 😅

[trail smelt]

well, so far only item from a mod im using are woolen leggins
i found them, but i just as well could have crafted them
unfortunately i had to let go of woolen sweater - it competes for a slot with a fur coat which is very easy to make and its a bit better
fur coat also goes nicely with the rest of fur clothes while also covering my head (i wear ugly straw hat)
the main benifit i have so far is ability to craft sail using far less linen thanks to wool

minstrel coat i bought from a trader

[vapid bluff]

hm, that is a shame.

[trail smelt]

that was my thought too when i saw that awl do damage xd
nice reference

[vapid bluff]

the "arctic explorer" coat will also have a cape like the fur coat. I don't think I want to boost the sweater, nor nerf the fur coat (ppl will hate me). First I need to put out 2 tweaking releases for Dressmakers and Tailor's, then I can focus on new clothes. Seems it will be a loong modding sunday 🍵

[vapid bluff]

Glad somebody got it - most ppl never read the descriptions until the end 🥰 🐹

[trail smelt]

oh, excited to see it!

tailor should to more damage with stiching awl /j

[vapid bluff]

Sorry, can't do this with content-only mods. I wish this was possible.

Funny thing is, when I designed TD, I also had some armor in mind and other combat stuff. Only the awls and the rulers made it into the mod, and then it evolved into a sort-of library mod. Hopefully I can one day find the time to actually add the tailor armor "rings" and tailor weapon "very long measuring stick". It will be awesome. 😂

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs.hdnux.com%2Fphotos%2F10%2F15%2F11%2F2151029%2F7%2F1200x0.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=d4141352fddd3e97d8e30af9a0df089bf74d5a713eba1029702020fc569773ad

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fkviff.tv%2Fmedia%2F_cache%2Ffilm_detail_cover%2Ffilms%2F2024%2F12%2F03%2FKungFuMela_02.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=90b72e2d50a525e1285dbd75e6ccb0f79c7f5e844a08e381a531ddeed7caeccf

The wrist rings would give you quite some armor and a speed boost plus maybe even a slight healing advantage.
Their downsides would be the really really increased hunger AND the noise. The god-dawmn-awful jingling noise... 😂
The measuring stick would have a very long reach and a very fast attack but do less damage than a spear.
For the head I thought of a kung-fu inspired head band. Again, gives you a speed boost, protects 100% from rain and projectiles (anything moving like rain drops or stones simply moves away when you come along 😂 and does not hinder healing. The downside would be less armor, maybe.

I think the whole set would also be great for "messenger duties". You could run really really fast with it, but you need a break to get a snack every so often.

Tailors don't sneak up onto their enemies. From a mile away you can hear the jingling noise of their wrist guards, the clickety-clack from the awls and sharp implements hanging from their belts, echoing through the night, dense forests and caves. And suddenlty they are here, right next to you, sprint-jumping into the most dense combat zone, striking terror and fear into the hearts of the weak, dirty, and creased alike.

I'm having way too much fun the backstories... back to modding for me 🙈

[trail smelt]

"Fear not the mighty warrior with a menacing sword, but the humble tailor with a stiching awl and a knowledge how to use it right."

[vapid bluff]

If any of you don't know the movie "Kung-Fu Hustle", go watch it, it is hilarious! 🪓 🥷

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's not only know how to stitch wounds together, but also how to open them up in the first place. 😂

Shears should probably be usable as a weapon, too.

[vapid bluff]

This is an example on what I have in mind for "warmer shirts", except not being so noble and using cheaper ingredients and also probably knitted with wool instead of just using cloth and fur. This example here can only be crafted if you have Dressmakers, just wanted to show you the example.

[trail smelt]

i have that mod i think

[vapid bluff]

Nadiyan leather is an end-game thing, tho. As I wrote, I'll add "warm shirts" so you can combine them with the sweaters, as well as "extra warm parkas".

[trail smelt]

That would be very awesome

[vapid bluff]

I'm not quite happy with how the fur coat recipe looks. The coat is definitely gray, not "brownish" and it has a brown stripe.
It probably should require a polar bear belt, and brown twine. But ppl are gonna kill me 🙈 They love their cheap-and-easily-crafted coats to simple ignore winter temperatures... 🙉

[trail smelt]

it would a reasonable change

worst case scenario it can be bought

[vapid bluff]

Or maybe I need to add a "white brush" to it, like to the price fur. 🤔

[vapid bluff]

That is true. 💡

[trail smelt]

it costs like 7-8 gears

not so sure about "ignore" part
when true winter hits, it will be -40

not even october yet, daily temperature is barely above freezing, soon it will get worse

[vapid bluff]

I meant ppl who play the normal worlds. Yes, it goes to -20 there, but if you craft a fur coat, fur mittens and boots (or buy them) you are good for 90% of the time. And the "freezing" in the game is not too annoying so some ppl just ignore it.

Need to think more about the fur changes. Maybe the generic pelt bundles need to be sep. into "light", "brown" and "dark" pelt bundles and then the fur clothes can be using the appropriate color. But that is for another day.

I'm currently tweaking many recipes in Dressmakers and TD to use better color-matching ingredients for the clothing colors, that is why I saw the "fur coat" issue again.

[vapid bluff]

Alternatively some lime powder to "bleach it"? (so the fur coats look white and are "preserved" a bit better?)

Yeah, that sounds like a good ingredient compromise until we have multi-color peltbundles. Unfortunately, lime now requires copper anvil + smithing (due to the chisel requirement for the quern 🙁

Hopefully, when one requires a fur coat, they either already have copper-before-winter, or playing in the arctic challenges, found a trader selling them either lime or the coat.

White dye also requires barrels, so it also requires copper anvil + smithing. But it would also require either borax or even more exotic ingredients. Lime is quite simple in comparisation.

Brown thread also needs a barrel, it can be bought from the commodities trader and in the next version, also be panned or found in some loot vessels.

So brown thread + lime sounds reasonable achievable by me.

[trail smelt]

hm, is dark blue threads for sale in your mod?

i can buy 12 red threads, but i still need to find blue and yellow ones

8 threads for 1 gear?

[alpine sphinx]

if you find woad, that can be used to turn blue cloth into dark blue cloth

[trail smelt]

there is no woad in artic

i first bought red threads and then bought some dark red cloth

i can make either one of reindeer coats

depending on what i buy next

[trail smelt]

im not sure it matters what clothes i wear

with artic temperatures difference between going outside naked and in clothes is minimal

vintage clothing and temperature system is screwed

i stand outside in full clothes and it took me 3 hours and 20 minutes to get to 31
naked it took me 2 hours and 50 minutes
nothing matters i guess

[vapid bluff]

ah, good question. I'm always carefully not to spam the trader inventories with all the colors - it kinda sucks that you cannot give them groups of items so they choose on-of-the-group or have some sort of priorities. So if you add all 16 thread colors, the clothing trader might sell nothing but different kinds of twine...

I'll check if dark-blue is available other than from dying (you can now sometimes find it in loot vessels but this is a new thing)

[strange dragon]

late reply but
where most players are settled on my server is the basic "temperate" type area (perhaps a bit on the cooler side) and in the dead of winter, especially at night, even the full fur set won't keep them safe for long

it's more a "survive" winter than "ignore" winter IMO
ignoring winter is minmaxing a mix of nadiyan fur/reindeer herder/etc clothes for absolute maximum warmth, and even that's not enough to totally ignore arctic/high elevation temps

as far as cost balancing ideas, maybe a roll of linen for the coat? could think of it as holding all the pelts together or something

(by roll I mean bolt whoops)

[vapid bluff]

🤔 Would that make the fur coat cheaper or more expensive? Pelt's can be gathered by hunting, for cloth you need linen (or wool if you have Wool & More).

[strange dragon]

more expensive, I meant the linen in combination with the pelts
doesn't Tailor's Delight already add some twine to the fur set's costs?

[vapid bluff]

Also, the hunter coat has 2.5° instead of 3° - so I'm not sure that the fur coat really makes much of a difference 🤔

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, I know. I meant "4 pelts" instead of "2 pelts + 2 linen" or "3 pelts + 1 linen" - would the linen make it really "cheaper"? I guess it depends on what the player has available...

[trail smelt]

in artic i get colder days in october then temperate winters

[strange dragon]

it seems like you're trying to make it less "put some pelts together and get one of the warmest outer torso slot clothing items in vanilla", so I was tossing an idea out there
(personally I don't see much of an issue with it, because unless you're somewhere with mild winters, it's really only enough to keep you from freezing to death for a while but )

[trail smelt]

from my experience you can either ingnore winter or its way too cold and clothes dont really do much

[strange dragon]

pretty much lol

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, this is also my experience.

[strange dragon]

the clothes generally only help you delay the "becoming a corpse popsicle"

or you have mild winters and they totally cancel it out

[vapid bluff]

It doesn't help that wandering into a cave or digging into the side of the hill will also counter it quickly.

[strange dragon]

yeah

but now this is running into a vanilla system issue rather than clothing

[vapid bluff]

The only thing winter seems to do is increase your hunger buthere is pretty much the same. Either you starve all the time, or you have soo much food it doesn't really matter. I'm not quite sure if warm clothing reduces the hunger rate or if it only helps if you don't get cold...

[strange dragon]

if you're not in at least a fur set, you'll probably freeze to death if it's a climate with at least mildly cold winters
if you didn't stock up food, you'll starve to death
once you have both of these solved, the only challenge left is boredom if you don't have non-plant related things to do

the hunger increase is ever-present during winter for some reason, or at least feels like it is

[trail smelt]

vintage devs need to lock in and work on refining core gameplay systems rather then adding story content

[strange dragon]

I mean the core gameplay systems are solid, to be fair
Additional polish wouldn't hurt anything though

[trail smelt]

vanilla combat sucks, for example

[strange dragon]

It'd be nice to have the potential for major snow build-up
like "oh, my door opens to a wall of white and oops now there's snow and a confused drifter in my living room" levels of build up

but yeah, vanilla winter, vanilla systems, there's really only so much balancing that can be done to address them via a mod about tailoring
outside of trying to get super warm in winter, there's really no other concern for players about clothing beyond "keep it repaired" (which loops back to warmth) and "I'm going to loot the planet to get clothing pieces and built my fit"

this isn't inherently a bad thing, mind

It's nearly 7AM where I am, and I've been up since 10AM so apologies if I'm rambling/disjointed/etc
In summary, essentially: The fur set is an outlier and should probably be ignored as far as trying to balance it, simply Tailor's Delight-ify the recipe in a way roughly equal to where it is in vanilla as far as tech level and resources, and try not to think about it too hard

[vapid bluff]

I agree that this item is an outlier. It gets all the attention, tho, because it provides so much warmth in VS and the recipe is cheap. Just a knife and a few pelts. This is what is now in the latest release in TD.

[strange dragon]

is that... lime?
dare I ask why?

[vapid bluff]

white color. preservation. because I can. pick one 😛

[strange dragon]

are you sure gating the item most players rely on to not die during the first winter behind either a quern (which needs them to be out of the neolithic in order to get the stone) or being lucky enough to have a commodities trader nearby is a good idea?

[vapid bluff]

#1172547853508415539 message

[vapid bluff]

There are options:

• you can use any other coat - at most you lose 1° temperature (coats are 2°, fur coat is 3).
• you can buy lime
• you can buy the coat
• use Wool & More and use a sweater

[strange dragon]

Not convinced it's a good idea, but ultimately it's your mod so

[vapid bluff]

And didn't we all agree that you won't "die in winter" just because you are missing a few temp degrees on your clothing? 🙃

Don't worry, in the next version I will make a config setting to have people turn off all the patches. I'm just frankly sick of always beeing question on my motives, my mods, my vision and my work. And explaining myself.
These endless discussions about minor details kill all my motivation and result in what little time I have left to not result in any new, fun features.

[strange dragon]

mostly because of how the vanilla freezing mechanics are a bit wonky but yes
I dunno, just seems like an odd change but, again, it's your mod and your vision for it - I'm just a guy who uses it

I was trying to articulate last night that it felt like you were banging your head against vanilla issues/balancing and constantly tangling with "this is too hard/this is too OP" instead of exploring "what can I do that vanilla doesn't"

[vapid bluff]

And it wasn't my idea to gate lime behing the copper anvil - you can thank Tyron for this.

[strange dragon]

yeah that is an odd gate for "smash these seashells"

"what do you mean with a rock? no, you need a quern. hammer? nuh uh, quern."

(don't get me started on 'fancy'/bulk pottery being locked behind IRON-)

[vapid bluff]

It's kinda difficult for me to have a mod that "extends the VS experience" when the basic experience is always gated/ruined by either changes in VS, or expectations of ppl, who want "all the new things" but absolutely resist any change at all.
(This isn't directed at you 🙂

[vapid bluff]

yep. I've had ideas to put my porcelain and glazed items in "no pit kiln" but then decided this change would make things only more annoying and not really help anyone. I bet a lot of new or old players never make it to iron.

[vapid bluff]

The last sentense is true. lots of head banging, not much progress here. 🤔

[strange dragon]

We fire all of our porcelain in the UsefulStuff mudbrick kiln lmao
There really ought to be something like it in vanilla, a mass-firing method but it can't do 'fancy' colors

[gloomy zinc]

My experience has been that this will always be the case, even if you make it highly configurable and try to cater to everyone, because then they'll complain that they have to change settings and their way of playing isn't the default. I've learned to document what changes my mods do, (in the mod description and in a Google Sheet for exact details), and then ignore people that install a mod that explicitly changes the way something works and then complain that "their" (actually from a guide from five years ago) cookie cutter exact method of playing is broken by the mod despite that being the third line of the description.

</rant>

[strange dragon]

hmm
what about revisiting the 'stuffing' idea?
but rather than just feathers, maybe feathers or flax fibers or W&M fleece or something along those lines?

keeps it pre-copper, but dodges the "why do I need to enter the copper age to crush seashells" issue
(also yes I know I'm the one who complained about the feather stuffing in the past, hence the "or"s)

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, sure, the stuffing is for warmth, but my main complaint about the VS fur coat is that is is white not brown like the pelts. Hence the lime.
Most of the fur items in TD have now some coloring:

• lime (coat, boots)
• none (the fur gloves, as they are gray)
• gray brush (some noble pelt I think)
• white brush (the nobel fur pelt, I think)

Wool & More will add stuffed mittens (and probably use feathers).

[gloomy zinc]

And also, I'd like to thank you very, very much for TD and Wool & More. I rely on them heavily for my games since I've removed all animal harvesting drops from my worlds. (My mod adds wooden needles since bones are unobtainable.)

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, I need to document things better. Also, ppl don't need to use TD except when they want Dressmakers, which requires it. So these people have a valid complaint, all they want is to craft uncraftable clothes, but now they got all the complexity. There is another mod for crafting VS clothes but I guess it is not well-known.

[vapid bluff]

Thank you for the kind words 🙂 Interesting play style choice! Guess horn needles are also out and flint needles would be too cumbersome?

[gloomy zinc]

I'm not sure you could make flint needles due to the conchoidial fracturing it does making it always have very sharp edges that could cut whatever you pull it through. Wooden needles were and are a real thing, especially when working with fiber materials where they don't need the strength to penetrate hide.

[strange dragon]

Yeah, that's an odd bit of visual disconnect
I assume it's because pelts are a generic item instead of per-animal types (RIP to Hide and Fabric), so they're all a uniform brown-ish

[vapid bluff]

well, yeah, if you are beeing ultra-realistic 🙂
https://www.science.org/content/article/world-s-oldest-stone-needles-unearthed-tibetan-plateau

[gloomy zinc]

Oh, those are cool. Looks like they used softer rocks that could be polished smooth to avoid tearing based on them using serpentine and talc.

[vapid bluff]

That could well be, the fur coat predates any bears for sure. But with bears and their colored pelts, maybe VS will see more colored pelts and fur clothing (and I'm afraid this will further complicate things).
As for Hide and Fabric, yes, RIP, I'm trying to slow replace it with my mods but as you seen all talk, no work 😄

[rare dew]

Do the paint brushes have a use?

[strange dragon]

Speaking of bears, I just remembered that Bear Armor has its own warmth values despite being armor
Which further scrongles vanilla's winter clothing balancing

(why exactly it has warmth but gambeson (basically wearing compressed quilts) doesn't is beyond me)

[vapid bluff]

Yery limited. You can mark chests and signs with them, and a few select clothing items need one.
They were intended to be used by other mods - and this never appears.
They were also used to make a pattern set - which was supposed to be used by other mods but it never appeared and getting questions all the time about it I took it out. I'm already thinking just removing the brushes. They don't bring anything useful except work.

[rare dew]

Aw

[vapid bluff]

that's many ask and somebody made a mod to change it - I've even thought to change it in TD but then I did not want replicate another mod as that would be rude. (I think before 1.21 armor could not have warmth value without code support but I could be wrong)

[strange dragon]

I think if you were able to (somehow) not make brushes vanish like other pigment sources when marking chests/signs/etc, they would become a lot more viable - a couple players on my server made them for just this, but were disappointed when the writing RNG made them disappear

Do they work for wall marking, out of curiosity? I've seen people do some crazy stuff with just the vanilla wall-mark pigments, having access to all the paintbrush colors might lead to something even crazier

[vapid bluff]

The RNG 15% is hard-coded in the VS code. Hard-coding is the bane of my modding career.

As for wall-marking - I'm not sure. Never really used it much,as the interface is so cumbersome and I have bad drawing skills 🙃

[strange dragon]

The RNG 15% is hard-coded in the VS code

why on god's green flat earth-

man.

[vapid bluff]

heh, it seems it might be changed now:

            consumeChance = properties["consumeChance"].AsFloat(0.15f);

https://github.com/anegostudios/vssurvivalmod/blob/d9d64287d479c3b2ed813b6ef713212cd76cd64e/CollectibleBehavior/BehaviorArtPigment.cs#L55C13-L55C72

I must have missed that they added that. Forget my complains. Thanx for asking me 😊

$ ack consumeChance
assets/survival/itemtypes/resource/charcoal.json
28:                     consumeChance: 0.066

assets/survival/itemtypes/meta/decalcan.json
29:                     consumeChance: 0,

[strange dragon]

Glad to have (possibly) helped with something!

[vapid bluff]

Meh, this seems to be only used for ArtPigments, e.g. when you draw on a wall.

        behaviors: [{
                name: "ArtPigment",
                properties: {
                        decorBlockCodes: ["caveart-charcoal-1-*"],
                        paintableOnBlockMaterials: ["Stone", "Wood", "Brick", "Ceramic", "Metal", "Meta" ],
                        consumeChance: 0.066
                }
        }],

I have to test this, but not today.

if we are lucky, it fixes the "brushes are consumed" issue and lets you draw with them all cave walls.

[trail smelt]

in vintage story clothing is mostly cosmetic

it doesnt matter as much

regarding earlier convo about fur coat nerf

i would find a way to get one if i wanted to

for the warmth it provide - its way too cheap to make

i started a new run as a malefactor, because i was dissapointed in tailor and clothing mechanic, and on the first day i saw light gray wool sweater for sale, for just 6 gears

and i could have bought it if i wanted to, i had the gears

[trail smelt]

when you are not a tailor, tailors delight doesnt really do anything

might be even detrimental to you, cause it migh replace some vanilla item spawns

im playing malefactor and im caving straight from the beginning, found a locust nest and destroyed it

it dropped dark green and dark blue wool threads

and i cant do absolutely anything with them

[vapid bluff]

That is interesting and valuable feedback. Thank you! 🥰

• The locust nest drops are brand-new - but you can't use them as you are not a tailor?
• The sweaters might be too cheap. I've already raised their price by 1 gear, could raise it more, but then, most VS clothing is dirt-cheap so it might look odd if they were 16 gears 🙃

[alpine sphinx]

find the knitting needles in the handbook to find more accessible recipes that are good for winter

most recipes using wool fibers + knitting needles don't need tailor trait, unlike the ones with flax cloth

[strange dragon]

hide/leather/linen flat placables and whole blocks for building, for one
knitting and wool are Wool & More though @alpine sphinx

[alpine sphinx]

ah myb but they seem to be using both? otherwise they wouldnt find wool threads?

[trail smelt]

with those two types of woolen threads i cant do anything at all except for decorative blocks

it is kinda a rare drop it seems

and the most reasonable thing to do with them is throw them away, which feels wrong

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, finding more usage of the rarer colors is hard. I'm working on it! They are used in Dressmaker's, mostly.

As for "throwing it away", yeah I get that complaint often. It seems to me people hate it when they get free stuff that they can't really use - but when I make the stuff only craftable, they complain they can't craft it and it's too hard. So I' between a rock and a hard place 🙂

[trail smelt]

god i hate fomo

😭

imo non tailors should have access to more recipes

tailor get tailored gambesson (best light armor in the game and best underlayer armor in CO), cheap sail recipesand and cheap wool/linen threads crafts

[trail smelt]

a lot of clothing that they buy are not really worth crafting to sell

[strange dragon]

the only thing I throw away from looting and panning is flint arrowheads from panning and maybe rope from locusts nests if I'm too full
(god, so many flint arrowheads)

(also spearheads)

anything from any other looting/panning is generally useful in some way or another

once you get to the point where you're robbing locust nests like a madman in a pinata factory, you should absolutely have the storage space to squirrel away supplies anyways ngl

[vapid bluff]

Well, yeah, Tailor's Delight's motto is "Make Tailor's Craft Again!" 😄
I'm always thinking about adding more stuff for other classes, but this isn't really the focus of tailor related mods...

[strange dragon]

arguably the hunter/malefactor classes making some quick & crude pelt clothing would still be tailor-related, just not in the sense of the tailor class
... also blackguards being able to make edible leather, as a joke

[lunar ingot]

They may have had to eat their boots down there; who knows…

[trail smelt]

i gave in and started as a tailor again 😭

[rare dew]

Is there an item called the Tailor's Delight in this mod

[vapid bluff]

no

[trail smelt]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/db/ea/36/dbea365f484afce02023d6b1da924f83.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/8d/65/3f8d656f47b3d90bc4a0f62e33a95af4.jpg

would be cool if we had something like this in vintage

[trail smelt]

noticed you can buy leather with tailors delight

and tailor gets double as good converstion from leather bundles

is it really necessary for so many clothing recipes to be class locked?

tailor already substantial crafting cost reductions

[vapid bluff]

Short answer:
Clothing recipes beeing class-locked to the Tailor is a VS (or dressmakers) problem, not a Tailor's Delight problem. And this mod is not the right place to change it (look at the name, this isn't "everybodies clothing delight", this is Tailor's Delight).

The long answer is more involved and I will be quiet about it for now as it would not be very nice 🙂

[trail smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/frodo-keep-your-secrets-alright-then-lotr-gif-12907121

[lunar ingot]

Im not sure if here or Dressmakers is the correct thread to ask this in; but when the config for Nadiyan clothing recipies is disabled, is it intended for the Nadiyan leather to still be craftable?

[vapid bluff]

I'd say, yes.Nadiyan leather is a Tailor's Delight item and could be used by other mods, too. Dressmakers uses it for Nadiyan clothing items but has no business disabling it, because this might interfere with other mods.

So far I had no good ideas for other use of nadyian leather. Maybe a nadiyan leather block for chiseling?

[lunar ingot]

Can non-nadiyan leather blocks be used for chiseling?

[vapid bluff]

This isn't mod specific, it depends on your world setting. When you have "most cubic blocks", you can chisel almost anything including modded blocks like leather blocks, cloth blocks etc.

[lunar ingot]

I see. Thank you for clarifying

[vapid bluff]

I've chiseled some couches 🛋️ 😄

[strange dragon]

🛋️

[pine stratus]

Just wanted you to know the dreamcatcher mod is currently in conflict with yours. I requested to them to change the recipe. So hopefully this gets resolved.
https://mods.vintagestory.at/dreamcatchers

[vapid bluff]

I've looked ath "consumeChance" - and it seems this is ONLY used for decal drawing (where you draw on a wall) but for marking of chests or signs, the brush stil vanishes with a 15% chance 🙁

This here does not work:

-               "brush-wet-black":      { "pigment": { "name": "Deep black",    "color": { "red": 15, "green": 14, "blue": 12 } } },
+               "brush-wet-black":      { "pigment": { "name": "Deep black",    "color": { "red": 15, "green": 14, "blue": 12 }, "consumeChance": 0 } },

[strange dragon]

:(

[vapid bluff]

heh, look, he's wearing a Wool & More sweater 😄
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x-_PLprz3g

Edit: it mentions Racoon wool 🤯 Probably should not have neglected these little rascals from the fleece drops 😄

Really really need to find time to fnally get more sweaters into thegame 🙈

[fiery zealot]

@vapid bluff got some errors i sent you in a dm, just wanted to pick your brain on them

[vapid bluff]

Received the most beautyful endorsement of my work today 😈

[solar peak]

Is this a sarcastic statement or genuine?

[vapid bluff]

Yes. 😈 😄

[solar peak]

Oh, are you getting your first hate comments?

[lunar ingot]

I think it’s a really cool detail how the malefactor clothing can be made by a tailor, except for the mask. It’s a nice touch that kind of enriches the mod in a way

[vapid bluff]

Love it when people actually get my decisions 🥰

[vapid bluff]

dang, a moderator removed it 🙃 Whenever you actuall need a comment to stay forever it's removed, but when you don't want it, it stays 🙃
I should put that comment as an "endorsement" onto the mod title card 😂

[solar peak]

Oh man, I didn't get to see it

[vapid bluff]

I shall sell t-shirts with it on 😂

[strange dragon]

let me guess, "I installed this mod that explicitly does X, Y, and Z, and now my game has X, Y, and Z in it wtf why is this happening shit mod shit mod malware bloat reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"?

[worldly thunder]

Hey @vapid bluff
I'm thinking of how best to implement my loom for compatibility. It seems like having it so the output for wool twine/thread would be the cloth bundles that look like this for example would be best

I was also thinking about how to implement the ability to do the checkered cloths through the loom and I noticed that all checkered cloths seem to be locked behind the clothier trait. I'm guessing this is because you've limited certain recipes of clothing behind this trait?

Do you think it would be clashing mod philosophy if I didn't check for this trait? I could probably add some sort of config toggle.

Are the recipes that use these checkered cloths also checking for the clothier trait?

[vapid bluff]

The "locking" of checkered cloth was more so "to make tailor's useful and great" and not with a specific goal in mind. I'm not even sure that all recipes that use checkered cloth are tailor-exclusive, too. Some of them might not be (there are simply too many to check) and some might not even be craftable w/o a tailor crafting you the checkered cloth first because not all cloth are sold by the clothing trader (there trader lists cannot (unfortunately, after all these years!) contain too many items and it is still not possible to have wildcards.

So if you add 16 different colored checkered cloth to a trader, there are chances he sells nothing except these.

So, yeah, I think it would be ok if non-tailors can craft these cloth in your mod - it's your mod after all.

Just checked and only a handful of recipes use checkered cloth. The one thing that would then stil be locked behind the trait are the table cloth and cloth panels, some of them might be only craftable by tailors.

[worldly thunder]

Thanks for your insight!

[worldly thunder]

i gotta fix the GUI a little more but I basically made it so when tailor's delight and wool & more are installed this pattern tab shows up which people can use to create the checkered cloth

[foggy ridge]

What if you add one of "pull from this array [the 16 cloth variants]"?

I'm talking here like I didn't just irreversibly break all my own mods

[vapid bluff]

This is unfortuately still not possible with VS. You can only add single items to a (very long) list and one of these is choosen for each trader slot at random. So if a trader has 40 products and you add 16, then it has 56 products, each equally likely to show up.

Which means before it was 1/40 of a chance that a certain product from the initial list shows up, and now it's 1/56. And there is a 16/56 chance that one specific slot is occupied by the newly added products, which is about 28%. So ca 30% of all slots will be occupied by the new products and only 70% of slots with the original products.

I wish it would be possible to say "sell this product, but in these X colors but only choose one of them at random".

(Could be solved with code but it's not my job to fix deficits in the VS code 🙂

[solar peak]

God I wish 😔

[gloomy zinc]

They're also meant to represent travelling merchants, so some interface where you can request something specific at a significant cost increase would be nice as well.

[dull fog]

He's still cookin!

[vapid bluff]

New "shelving" code means I probably need to remove a lot of "make VS things groundstackable" patches, but also fix a lot of my own items. This will be "fun".

Once it's working, it will be grand tho!

[worldly thunder]

I'm just glad you made this mod otherwise I'd have to make all these twines and threads for the loom haha.
Thanks for being great!

[vapid bluff]

That's exactly what TD is for - as a library for other great mods 🥰 Thank you for the loom!

[dull fog]

loom is done?

yahooooO!

[foggy ridge]

[Backwards long jumps out of frame]

[worldly thunder]

about to be released just making a quick mod icon for the mods folder

[dull fog]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-rip-gif-12978967

[lunar ingot]

Not exactly a mod question, just a general question about cloth in vintage story. Is there a reason why it’s folded into a rectangle instead of a cylindrical or more even shape?

[vapid bluff]

You'd have to ask the developers this. My guess is, cylinders are hard in an engine that can only render cubes. Rounded edges can only be approximated with more and more cubes, which takes longer to model and then to render.

[worldly thunder]

Hey Tels is there a reason you didn't create linen sheet blocks for thread like you did for Wool & More?
just something I noticed is all 🤷‍♂️

[vapid bluff]

what exactly do you mean by "sheet blocks"?

[worldly thunder]

I didn't know exactly what to call them but these,

[vapid bluff]

ah, the decorations. the are called "cloth panels" for linen. IDK why I made it different for wool and for linen. Maybe because in VS "wool" already was a "decorative panel" and not called "panel".

in VS for linen, they are called "linen" + a bunch of patterns. Wool had/has no patterns.

[worldly thunder]

right. I was just curious! Right now I changed the wool twine in the loom to output these "cloth panels" and then thread just ouputs the cloth. I'm technically duping sticks for people but i'm not worried about it lol

[foggy ridge]

Another idiot suggestion:

Now that there's small bones, doing the needle recipe on them should yield maybe 1 needle instead of 2. This would make small bones not as useless as they are in vanilla.

i swear I'm not putting out all these to ragebait you

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight has surpassed 200K downloads on the ModDB! 🚀

Thank you all for your support! 🥰

[vapid bluff]

To celebrate this milestone, I've uploaded a small release of Expanded Matter² with some minor tweaks and features, 3.4.2:

• Copper sulfate can be used to mordant linen cloth, too
• Use metal sulfates to mordant Wool cloth and twine
• Darkening leather or mordanting cloth needs half as much sulfate

This will also make Tailor's Delight even better - Please enjoy! ☺️

[hidden saffron]

Trying out Tailor's Delight on my solo game and it said that there was a dependency issue. What does that mean?

[hidden saffron]

Nvm, figured out I needed Expanded Materials

[pine stratus]

I'm just glad you made your mod so @vapid bluff didn't have to make all those machines.

[pine stratus]

Do you know any mods that can crush minerals without a pulverizer? I have been trying to make mordant cloth without building one due to it being too high tech for my current era.

[vapid bluff]

no, sorry. Maybe Salty's manual uh crushing? I know there is manual scraping, but I'm a bit out of the mod loop nowadays. With 5000+ mods it's hard to keep track of it all...

[pine stratus]

No worries!

I advanced in eras anyways. Though in the future I would rather not beeline just to get a pulverizer.

[fossil sleet]

Hey I was wondering.

They are a couple of Loom mods out there.

I wonder if these won't bring any incompability issues with Tailor's delight, or if any sort of compability is planned.

[worldly thunder]

not sure about RIVVION's Clothier's Heirlooms but Immersive Fibercraft is fully compatible and built with Tailor's Delights + Wool & More in mind.

[fossil sleet]

Ooh

[vapid bluff]

I've not worked on this, but as @worldly thunder said, some of them are already compatible and if you find anything amiss, please ask the authors of these mods to add compatibility - it shouldn't be too hard (famous last words 🙂

[fossil sleet]

Oooh

Ok

Yeah Im asking this because Im a really big fan of interactive crafting instead of using the 3x3 grid.

[worldly thunder]

spoilers if they design it right, it's not

[fossil sleet]

I want to give it a shot on something.

Are they plans on making dressmaking a bit more intractable rather than just putting the ingredients on the crafting grid?

This sounds complicated, Im aware and Im expecting a no for an answer.

[vapid bluff]

This is outside of my area, it would require coding and a lot of time and I lack both of it. Sry!

[fossil sleet]

Oh I see.

Still this was worth a shot.

Thanks for letting me know.

[vapid bluff]

Btw, I was under the impression that coloring leather required 2 L of dye just like cloth, so my "darkening leather" recipes use 1 L to be "less than dying it". Turns out it is 5 L to color it, so I'm gonna adjust my recipes to require 2 L for darkening instead. It's still less than 5 L 🙂
If you want to produce darker colored leather, do so before 1.22 and the new TD hits as it's easier now 🙂

[fossil sleet]

👀

[proven scroll]

Suggestion for compat with Ancient tools; could you modify their wood-colored leather backpack recipes to match your regular backpack recipe?

[vapid bluff]

There seem to be many crafting recipes for clothes and things in AT I think it's better if @mint lagoon handles this - it's very hard for me to track all these other mods, there items and recipes etc.

[proven scroll]

Fair enough

[vapid bluff]

Last version f.i. says Buckskin Headband, Buckskin Gloves, Coonskin Cap, and fur-lined variants of moccassins and gloves have been implemented. and I guess some of these might also need different recipes when TD is installed.

Taska, if you need a hand, pls ping me 🙂

[mint lagoon]

I can take a stab at it 😄

[vapid bluff]

Interesting video about tanning leather IRL. The video is in German but has English subtitles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKz4m3Ylv20

This quite industrial process. And very long:

• It takes 4 days for the liming (which interestingly also uses sulphur in addition to just lime)
• it takes 5 weeks for the weak tanning stage (which uses either oak, chestnut or acacia or a mix of these, for different colors. Each week the are set into stronger tannin. The mixture is created with water and wood powder. Weaker tannings left over from previous steps are used for the next batch. After 5 weeks 1/3 is tanned on each side, eg. 1/3 in the middle is still white
• Then comes 1 week intermidiate tanning in a large wooden barrel

The whole tanning process takes more than two years!

VS is rather easy compared to this 🙂

[foggy ridge]

I once heard about ancient hunters using the acids from the animal's brain to clean (?) skin into pelt. It used to be a rule of thumb that most mammals's skin-to-head size ratio was perfect for this.

[turbid merlin]

They did use the brains for this purpose, yes

[brisk maple]

(Feedback, slightly ranty)

I'll be honest, this mod is hell
"Oh, I have enough leather for backpack!" - nope, have to make extra leather stripes FOR EACH BACKPACK, also buttons
"Oh, I think I have enough for armor" - nope, have to gather woad or cornflower and go ingame days as dye is cooking

Why can't the mod provide tailor-exclusive alternative recipe that at least is noticeably cheaper? Rather than outright replacing stuff with way more expensive process?

It nerfes everyone instead of just buffing tailor. I genuinely do not understand why.

I'm really sorry if it sounds too harsh but it literally made me cry because it's like 3rd or 4th time I thought I actually did it, I achieved something on the server I'm in despite not thinking I can do it, only to be met with Tailor's surprise

[vapid bluff]

• If you had compared the recipes carefully, you would have seen that "way more expensive" is simply not true.

A VS backpack requires 8 leather, a TD backpack requires 8.25 leather, 1 flax twine and 0.25 zinc ingot. You get buttons for free with panning, in fact ppl complained they got too much, so I had to nerv the output multiple times.

• Making alternative recipes for tailors AND non-tailors is not just a lot of work, but it also makes the game load slower, require more memory, clutters the handbook. I've made such recipes with Dressmakers, but simply didn't have time for TD to do all this. Just keeping up with the changes from the basegame is more than enough work.

But yeah, I get the complaint, I'm already thinking of allowing to disable all these changes.

[brisk maple]

regarding panning, some people don't pan, they prefer looking for stuff or making it 🙁

and if you suck at combat like me, then the extra leather cost hurts

(also the mod description implies that other classes could still use regular recipes, and tailor recipes are cheaper)

(yk the rude line about blackguards)

[vapid bluff]

Right. I just don't get the hate for panning 😛

Anyway, buttons also drop in loot vessels or crates and can be bought from a trader.

But I guess you just don't like the extra complexity. Which is fair. It will take a while for me to sep. the changes from VS into a new mod or make a config for it. In the meanwhile, maybe don't use my mods.

[brisk maple]

i dont have the choice

its on otherwise great server

[vapid bluff]

That might be a left-over description before I moved stuff to dressmakers, which has this feature. Usually I forget to update the description.

[vapid bluff]

ah, ok, then a config would also not help, because then the server owner would probably not disable the changes and as a user you can't change it.

[brisk maple]

"Some recipes that are craftable by other classes (like Blackguard) can use raw materials, but then use a bit more. Because Tailor's are just awesome and more skilled :)"

[brisk maple]

yeah, imho best thing would be something like, involved tailor recipe at 25% discount, regular recipe at vanilla price

25% would be noticeable enough, and would counteract tailors animal harvest debuff

[vapid bluff]

This was something I planned but did not have the time for it. It works if you use Dressmakers.

[brisk maple]

honestly the thing that hit me the most was "I have to dye leather that will not see light of day from under chains" lol

you kinda locked entire armor tech line behind barrel dying

[vapid bluff]

or you know what, I'm not gonna change any VS recipes anymore, because ppl complain all day long and try to barter with me "oh it should not be % more it should be equal", "no it should cost more, VS is way too cheap, how is the backpack holding together, with spit?)" "oh no it should definitely cost % less for tailors".
I'm just tired of all the complaining.

[brisk maple]

._.

actually i have to ask cuz i dont get it - why is there recipe for 2 leather -> leather bundle and then 2 recipes (at loss and tailor-exclusive without loss) when its used for total of 1 item, leather panel

[vapid bluff]

You can buy colored leather from a trader. Also, formerly one could also use the barrels from some traders to dye leather, but I guess since 1.22 will take that away, I really have to reconsider things. It migh also be that already in 1.21 only traders from Better traders have barrels. I know I've used a trader barrel to aquire green cloth before copper age.

Anyway, one thing I've learned from modding is that touching anything in VS is simply toxic. But if the base game changes the torch recipe from "1 stick" to "1 stick + 2 dried grass" it's heraled as the "most immersive best change every" 😅

[vapid bluff]

The idea was to unify recipes, esp. with the hides where otherwise you have 5 different recipes depending on hide size.

Also make it so that "one leather bundle" which can be crafted only by tailors is cheaper than "3 leather" in a different recipe..
Leather bundles are used A LOT in dressmakers.

[brisk maple]

ah, so in the end you just didnt use it in TD

[vapid bluff]

Tailor's Delight is like a library mod - it adds things that then other mods use. My mistake was to make TD a functional mod at the same time, or at least trying to. I've tried to move things to other mods, but this isn't complete (you can still craft panels, table cloth etc. with TD alone)

[gloomy zinc]

You'll get feedback from 1% of people who like what you've created, and 99% of people who don't like it. Sometimes you'll get feedback you can act on, something that made sense at the time but no longer does, or something you missed while working on it, but most of the time it'll just be "creative differences."

For me personally, Tailor's Delight/Dressmakers/Wool and More fix a ton of issues I have with the game, and I haven't found anything I considered overwhelmingly difficult to do. Granted, I have mods for stone-age crushing (mortar and pestle, hammer crushing), and I don't use leather at all.

[vapid bluff]

One more thing, about the leather jerkins:

You can complain to Tyron for this one, they decided to color the texture for leather jerkins half blue for no reason. I'm just making it so that the recipe input matches the output. Because I like to play the game this way.

But I also get that not everyone shares my view.

[vapid bluff]

You are not wrong 🙂 And thank you for the kind words.

In general, tho, I come from a time were most players thought VS was not challenging enough or had not enough to do in the end-game. E.g. were sailboats, pitkilns, beehive kilns and stuff like that didn't even exist.

Lately tho a lot of new players come to VS finding VS already way too challenging and want an easier game. One can see the thousands of little "QoL" mods who simply patch aways game design choices from VS. (Like no sticks from firewood, you have to use shears to get them).

It seems ppl no longer look for a way to beat a challenge, but instead just want the easiest way forward. Like "oh I could buy colored leather, or ask another player for it, or I could pan for buttons or or or" but instead they complain "why mod so hard!?"

So old-school mods like mine that add extra challenges and complexities no longer fit into that modern mindset.

[brisk maple]

I'm not newest player, I just hoped to use regular recipes since fighting animals is hard enough imho

[vapid bluff]

I hope you are happy now.

[vapid bluff]

The downside is that now leather bundles and buttons have no usage at all, unless you install other mods. I'm not looking forward to the complains about this...

[violet kernel]

will this be optional in the config/will the original TD recipes be included in Dressmakers? personally I like the depth and immersion they add to tailoring

just curious, I appreciate the mod and all the work that’s been done so I support whatever works best

I think it’d be a neat workaround for dyeing requirements and a big upgrade to all around tailoring if plain and other colored cloth/thread could be used for any wearable recipe output but that would be a huge job and probably require something like ARL to reduce bloat

[vapid bluff]

My plan is to add the "patches to VS recipes" to Vintage Recipes (https://mods.vintagestory.at/vsrecipes it already patches a lot of VS recipes to make it more immersive and "harder", so I think it will fit right into it.
I'm not sure how I make things configurable - maybe something like "clothing / wearable" and "others". Or maybe it becomes a new mod. Not sure yet.

A few things will also go into Dressmakers - it already makes use of TD items. But I don't want to make Dressmakers to patch VS recipes and then receive the same complaints that TD now has, so I probably will only add new "recipes" in Dressmakers, and not patch any VS stuff. Otherwise we would be back to square one 😄

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, this is not something achievable with content-only mods so I'm afraid out of my league.

There were suprisingly few things that TD actually patched, simply for the reason that VS itself has very little actually craftable clothes and items with cloth, fur and leather, but ppl really really hated a few of them (sails, backpack, leather armor) with a passion. Which is kinda sad, because, how many backpacks or leather jerkins are you actually crafting for each game? 🙃

$ ls ../backup/vs_tailors_delight/
backpacks.json                                     
survival-recipes-grid-books.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-leather.json
survival-recipes-grid-mechpowerblocks.json
survival-recipes-grid-armor-brigandine.json
survival-recipes-grid-chair.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-orange.json
survival-recipes-grid-medallions.json
survival-recipes-grid-armor-gambeson.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-black.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-pink.json
survival-recipes-grid-miningbag.json
survival-recipes-grid-armor-jerkin.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-blue.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-plain.json
survival-recipes-grid-sewingkit.json
survival-recipes-grid-armor-leather.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-brown.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-purple.json
survival-recipes-grid-tack.json
survival-recipes-grid-armor-tailoredgambeson.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-green.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-red.json
survival-recipes-grid-tool-bow.json
survival-recipes-grid-backpack.json
survival-recipes-grid-clothes-hide.json
survival-recipes-grid-linensack.json

[fossil sleet]

Any plan to add compatibility with Inmersive Fibercraft?

Both your and that mod have recipes for their respective spindles with these having a 4:1 twine radio for inmersive fibercraft and yours having a 6:3 radio for twine respectively.

The difference is that fibercraft's spindle does not use the grid to make twine, but using your offhand and a couple clicks to make it, well, more inmersive.

[worldly thunder]

I left the tailor's spindle in as a benefit for Tailor's to bypass the crafting time

[fossil sleet]

Oh.

[worldly thunder]

It's basically a class bonus. Everyone can use the tools I made for Immersive Fibercraft but I didn't necesarilly want to take away an advantage for Tailor's from Tailor's Delight

I guess I could add some sort of config to toggle the recipe for the spindle from Tailor's Delight but I don't really feel that it's necessary

[fossil sleet]

Hmh, I would appreciate such change, but I also find fair that you don't want to do it so.

[worldly thunder]

You could always make a simple mod to patch out the tailor's delight spindle and subsequent recipes

put it on the modDB for everyone

[fossil sleet]

I wish, but unfortunately I don't have any coding experience for the time we are speaking.

Oh well, at least allow me to thank you for letting me know all this.

Thanks.

[vapid bluff]

Thanx for all the work! 🥰 And I actually do like that, because the drop spindle with the animation looks really nice (way nicer than my spindle model 🙂 but it does take quite some time and clicking, while the TD spindle is for mass crafting. So having both is a good option.

[proven scroll]

shouldn't 8.25 leather be 8.5 leather? Not asking to complain or anything, just confirming if there's a recipe somewhere that I missed that turns 1 leather into 4 strips, instead of 1 leather into 2 strips

[solid phoenix]

I was wondering why that was a thing, but that makes total sense now that I think about it

My leatherworker was a little annoyed by it, so I was gonna ask at some point, but that makes sense

Thanks for all your work

[plain mountain]

I appreciate your mod a lot. And I think what you are saying is true to a certain degree. There is an idea that things need to come with an instant gratification. I disagree with this notion and the good thing is that VS (vanilla) in general seems to take the more rewarding approach of many steps for slower but long lasting gratification. A challenge is great, and your mod add to that challenge.
Please don't cater to the complainers, they could always choose to not play with your mod 😄

[solar peak]

I can't wait to see what kind of wild compat you can pull off once the recipe tagging stuff is working/exists. Not sure if it does yet or not, but...

No more recipe patching with dependsOn, just tags that make items and tools work right out of the box...

Want to use a blue cloth for a recipe? have like, a bluecloth tag, and now blue linen and blue wool just work in that recipe, no need to add a separate one for if Wool & More is installed. 🎉

https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-dare-i-do-i-dare-should-i-michael-the-office-gif-21612500

[solar peak]

Mostly looking forward to stuff like <color>leather or softleather tags so the ancient tools bark leather and buckskin can be incorporated easily

[vapid bluff]

ohwell, tags are a thing now? more work for me 🙉

[solar peak]

More work now, much less later to be fair

And it should let you cut back on recipes and patches by half or more

[vapid bluff]

you are right, I miswrote that 🙂

[vapid bluff]

I'v thought a bit of where to put the patches and it seems a bit unfair to require admins / users to install another mod just to get back the basic functionality of TD (patching VS recipes). Plus, Vintage Recipes would need a lot more configuration options then.

So I've added it for now as a config option for TD, which defaults to false, and then can be toggled on.

What do you all think, should it default to true (as it was before) or false? Please vote below with 🇹 or 🇫 for the default.

[fickle star]

I think it makes sense that the default TD setting is to have it as you intended it to be, and the option exists for people to change if they don't like that part of TD.

[vapid bluff]

Well, I like it to be on, but it seems a lot of people disagree, and a lot agree, so I'm trying to figure out what the best default should be. For me personally, I wouldn't even provide a config option 🙂

[vapid bluff]

I've noticed that between pre.2 and rc.1 the devs have re-arranged all the clothing recipes from "one JSON file per color" to "one file per seraph position (like "face") 🙁
Great, now I have to redo all my clothes patches....again.

[solar peak]

Oh god

[vapid bluff]

Coming back to leather jerkins needing dark blue leather. I've changed this now to require dark-blue twine, so it should be a bit easier. (Although in praxis, I'm not sure if dark-blue twine is easier to make then dark-blue leather?)
It still can be reverted before the next release.

I'm also planning to add more colors (like green, yellow, red) but I'm not sure how useful that would be. The jerkin isn't visible in the final armor, and usually not worn alone, either. Plus from a resource POV it makes almost no difference if you need dark-red or dark-blue twine. 🤔

I've also added more variants to a few VS recipes, so f.i. you can use either brown or black twine for some leather items instead of being restricted to black-only. This should make it a tiny bit less painful to craft vanilla items.

[solid phoenix]

Does dark blue twine still require double woad?

[vapid bluff]

yep. That's the thing.

It takes by chance the same amount of dye and time, just different for each stage 🙃

[solid phoenix]

Is it possible to add the other options for blue dye? Or is it because realistically only woad would give the darker colour?

[vapid bluff]

It's quite realistic - the blue dye in VS is both more light blue and woad has been traditionally used for darker blue (indigo) dying:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaudruck (There is unfortunately no English page for this)
The article specifically mentions https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Färberwaid which is the German name for basically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/woad.
It's a bit unfortunate that VS makes no distinction between blue (light blue) and indigo (dark blue) dye except in the form of woad dye, and since there is no dark-blue cloth, both dyes are almost the same except for woad needing no mordant step. I guess having only one color variation was simpler for the game.

Fun fact: This is a giant "vertical" quern used to grind woad for dying:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Waidstein_Sömmerda.JPG
Imaging moving this thing.

Thinking about it, to be more realistic, woad dye should directly result in dark blue cloth, and normal blue dye in normal blue. But back then I didn't want to touch the crafting chain too much, I'm pretty sure people like the woad giving blue cloth.
The only other alternatives for blue dye are cornflowers (rarer, cannot be propagated) and crushed lapis, which is really really rare.
So making woad go directly to dark-blue would make quite some people unhappy, which I totally understand 🙂

[gloomy zinc]

Well, and woad can be used for lighter blue dying. It's a matter of how long the fabric is in the dye bath and the temperature of the dye bath.

As well as the type of fabric, which mordant is used, the material of the pot containing the dye bath, etc.

[vapid bluff]

yeah, and I didn't want the player to have to study 4 years with a local dye master just to get blue cloth 😄

[gloomy zinc]

I thought that was the whole point of this game! (Mostly kidding.)

[vapid bluff]

With every version, the joke becomes less a joke and more real 😅

[gloomy zinc]

I do think it would be cool to have more detailed games like this that can be used as a basis for learning skills without heavy monetary and material investment.

Digital methods for keeping traditional methods and the lessons learned from them alive as things progress ever more towards complete automation.

[vapid bluff]

The German Südwestrundfunk (South-West Radio/TV) SWR has an excellent series on "old craftsmanships" - it's kinda sad tho to see that these are very old people or family business and they are usually one of the last ones in Europe or even the world.
They cover charcoal making, leather tanning, crafting knifes etc. The also cover more modern crafts, too:
https://www.youtube.com/@Handwerkskunst/videos

[gloomy zinc]

That's pretty cool, going to subscribe to that. There was (is?) a similar project in Appalachia called the Foxfire project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxfire_(magazine)).

[vapid bluff]

I guess @turbid tartan Ari wants know about this 😂

[solid phoenix]

Ok that's pretty cool, I like the way you do things

I do think woad to dark blue would be a nice step for getting the flower, and for leather armour crafting would be a nice way to make it a little easier while still requiring a longer crafting recipe

[vapid bluff]

Do you mean "x + woad dye directly to dark blue X" or "X + woad or blue dye => blue X, then woad dye + blue X => dark blue X"? Because the latter is already how it works.

[solid phoenix]

Yeah the former

[vapid bluff]

I'd not mind it, but since normal blue dye can only be made from rare things like cornflowers and lapis (plus mordant, too!), this seems not really feasible. If the player has EM, then a bunch of other recipes could be made (although all of them are late-game, too). But since TD will no longer strictly need EM in 1.22, then players would be stuck just to get blue cloth.

[solid phoenix]

Oh yeah, I forgot EM gives a load aswell

[vapid bluff]

Since 1.22 broke all my recipe patches, I'm considering just nuking them. Repairing them will cost me many hours, just to be back at were we were a few weeks back...

[quartz root]

Any news about 1.22? Also, did anybody tested this mod with Specialised Classes or any class mod that is touching Tailor class?

Btw. If you need Slave to fix patches or smth I can help. I have few years expirience in proffesional game development but recently I've changed job and I'm bored xD

[vapid bluff]

I might come back to you 🙂 a 1.22 version is almost done, except the "fix about 100 patches for clothing recipes", I just hadn't had time to polish it. Modding for VS is not my main job...

[quartz root]

Honestly: if they have pattern, then I quite enjoy writing scripts to automatize it and did it for some mods already (not VS tho but JSON is JSON)

If not, slavery is also option xD

[vapid bluff]

my current "stratgey" would be roughly like this:

• load 1.21 and the old TD, look at the recipe for clothing item X
• in 1.22, disable the VS vanilla recipe for the item with a patch, then add my own recipe with the ingredients from 1.21

In 1.21, my mod did patch the recipes, which required multiple patches for each item. E.g. "add an awl, add a needle, switch one white cloth to white twine, change the grid recipe height from 2 to 3, switch the grid recipe ingredient pattern from 'CCC,C_C' to 'ACN,CTC' etc"
Hopefully this way it would be way less patches and easier to maintain.
It's just a log of manual labor.

[quartz root]

Oh, You mean VS Patches... My bad, I Hate this name tbh as for me "path" is "path to file" and I was sure something changed and You have to change filepaths (eg of Textures and shapes) in 42069 places.

Yeah, so sounds like a lot of manual clicking...

[vapid bluff]

@signal holly I've had an open issue for TD to add "sail cloth" (basically "sealed/waxed heavy duty cloth"). Would that be something that would be usable to the air ship mod?

[signal holly]

I'm not sure

I had an AI take all VS materials to calculate a low effort consistency of four ingredients for a cooking recipe, it chose resin, salt quicklime and animal fat with various ratios out of all the available materials

I'll see if i can get the old post about it from the airship thread, one moment

here it is #1342605206243770419 message

It's also the primary means of gate keeping Airship flight behind a substantial resource sink of various natural sources. making people play the game in order to unlock being able to easily skip a majority of it in late-game

[vapid bluff]

My idea would be to add "sealing wax" that can be cooked (whatever the recipe will be) and then "cloth + sealing wax" in a barrel to create "sail cloth" https://gitlab.com/codesmiths/vs_tailors_delight/-/work_items/283 a kind of water-proof, very durable cloth.

The airship mod then could just require "sail cloth" instead of whatever it is using now when both airships and TD are installed. I don't think making the air ship mod require TD is nec, tho. Ppl would probably hate it.

[signal holly]

I'm not sure what the motivation for this is

I'd like to keep the high amount of resource investment for unlocking airship flight the same

[vapid bluff]

My motivation is to add more types of cloth to make TD a kind of "basic cloth library". But I guess ppl don't really share this vision and invent their own thing over and over again. Just like EM, I guess.

[vapid bluff]

I didn't say that TD would make it so you require less resources.

I'd just like to not have 10 different mods that add the same kind of item.

[signal holly]

I understand

I think that treated Balloon cloth exists for a multitude of fair enough reasons to warrant it's own type of cloth exclusively used in it's own mod

[vapid bluff]

I don't mind having to not add features. Seems the answer lately is always "heh, you added X, this other mod also adds X, can you pls make it compatible" or "heh, you added X, but we ignore it and add it in our mod, anyway, slightly different. Later users will then ask you to make it compatible". So, not doing something becomes the easiest path for me.

[signal holly]

I just feel like changing / replacing the crafting pipeline for the sake of reducing the total amount of mod specific cloths is a difficult thing for me to agree to when it's specifically applied to the airshipmod

I respect your pov, but it's difficult for me to agree to changing how treated balloon cloth is made through a seperate mod

at least the example you've brought up so far

I'm fine discussing this further to explore it more though

Cloth treated for airships is just such an edge case that i can't really see it be reduced to the same cost as sail cloth for ships

such a generalization would either make airships too cheap or sailing ships too expensive

[coral falcon]

For the end user that sort of design is certainly appreciated to help keep item bloat down and make the handbook easier to use It also helps make everything feel more cohesive, probably why TD is the base mod of my entire cloth/tailoring package, because it's so well integrated with the wool/shearing and other clothing mods as well

that said I'm mostly just replying to say thank you for all your hard work and I'm really looking forward to the 1.22 update

[vapid bluff]

That's a fair point. I'd have thought that having only one type of "heavy duty cloth" instead of having like 20 different cloth types like IRL would be enough for game play reasons, but it seems the Airship mod would at least require a different cloth type so I'll keep myself out of this.

[vapid bluff]

Thank you, and sorry for the delay 🙂

[coral falcon]

I'm not bothered at all!! I'm enjoying my 1.21.6 world just fine in the mean time haha

[signal holly]

I appreciate you tels o7 thank you for opening a dialogue with me about this

[vapid bluff]

I've had the idea of adding more types of cloth like duffel, flannel and fine cloth, but they all suffer from the problem that they would see only little usage. And just like wool, ppl will just assume that you can freely interchange stuff (don't ask my how often ppl require me to make wool twine convertibale into flax twine 🙃

• create diluted saltpeter solution (as opposed to "lant", which is stale urin, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lant)
• combine diluted saltpeter in a bowl, hammer, fire clay and hammer it to "scour and mill", e.g. "full" the cloth to create "damp duffel cloth".
• Damp duffel cloth can then be dried, and/or then "napped/gigged/raised" to create Flannell
• Flannel can be sheared to create Fine cloth

But explain to the average user that crafting a "fine coat" needs duffel cloth or fine cloth and not just "ordinary cloth" 😶‍🌫️

[proven scroll]

If that Fine Coat gave some kind of mechanical benefit, such as better temperature resists, I could see that being a good add.

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, that was usually my motivation. F.i. a "woolen shirt" gives you more warmth, and requires wool instead of generic cloth (when Wool & More is installed, of course). Queue then the long line of people complaining that this is "too hard" and "why can't I just use linen cloth for it" etc.
My guess would be that "fine cloth", "duffel cloth" and "flannel cloth" would share the same fate.

Either they are special items with only niche uses, or they become interchangable with normal cloth and thus superflous.

Another "tricky" thing is that cloth usually comes in a lot of colors, but with only a few recipes using them, some colors like "pink" have no usage at all. So you have the item, texture, translations, handbook entry all for nothing. I've tried to combat that a bit with patching VS recipes to use more colored twine (which ppl then complain about it being "too hard"), or adding recipes in Dressmakers (which not everyone uses). Still, some colors only have a handful recipes where they are used.

So if I were to add duffel cloth, fine cloth or sail cloth, they all would share the same fate: special items that bloat the mod (I can hear the pitchfork&torches crown gathering already) for little use. That is why I'm just hesitating to add these things and try to focus on other things that give more benefit first.

Oh, and hence my question on @ rivvion if "Sail cloth" could be used in Air ships. That would make it more worthwhile doing all the work on adding it. Maybe I should just name it "Heavy duty cloth" with "air tight, water tight, abbrasion resistent heavy cloth made for special uses" as description 🤔 Still, if there is no use for it...

[quartz root]

On other hand, intense pink was actually quite rare and expensive pigment irl

Btw. I started learning VS mods in practice (eg. to understand Patches beter etc) and I'm gonna to learn how to integrate mods using Your mods. So I hope, pink beds and woolen mattresses are comming.

And useless but fun fact: pink military uniforms: Prussian Alt Kreytzen from 1757 and Berg Lancers from 1807

[vapid bluff]

Do you need new items in TD for that? 🤔

[vapid bluff]

Yeah, pink is a weak form of purple, and purple was the most expensive, royal color. But that doesn't help if there are rarely any pink items in the game 🙂

[quartz root]

Nope. Not "need" but I want to make even more patterns if TL/Wool is installed

[quartz root]

Yes and no. Purple was really expensive indeed. But in VS there is recipe for violet dye actually but is named Purple. Purple was made for some kind of sea snails. Violets were actually popular even in Ancient. Made of berries (like in VS), specific use of Woad (that is also source of blue dye, both irl and VS) or by mixing blue and red, used mostly in Eastern Europe, as Red dye was dirt cheap in teritory od modern day Poland and Ukraine due to crapton of natural sources

VS did insane job with geology and such stuff, but dyes are VERY simplified

Ok, enough, turning off my autism for now...

[vapid bluff]

yeah, they got much simpler in one of the versions. I've added tons of powders in BL for making dyes, but it got all obsolete once dye where simply "put stuff in water, be done"

[alpine sphinx]

Sail cloth would be a nice addition, maybe as a necessity for bigger boats in a Shipwright addon
Balloon cloth could also allow someone to make a hot air balloon mod with TD integration

[vapid bluff]

How would you define the difference between these two? Also, should they all come just in colors, or have some pattern like "sail cloth has sqaures, baloon cloth has big stripes"? Otherwise, all the cloth bundles will look the same (it's already hard with the woolen and linen cloth).

[alpine sphinx]

unsure

from cursory reading / skimming, historically balloon cloth seems to be treated with some combo of lead, chlorine, and sulfur.
lightweight, less-permeable fabric to contain the hot air

hot air balloons might have two layers of fabric, one normal fabric layer for decoration and to protect the second layer, which would be the balloon cloth

of course i might just be wildly wrong about it

man, it's tough to find actual info on early ballooning cloth

sail cloth could probably have a different model and maybe patterns.
4 linen (2 of each color? arranged in checkers, stripes, or solid color) + a sewing needle, to make 1-2 sail cloth

would also open the option for colored windmills

[vapid bluff]

Well, as for sail cloth, I'd had planned that you cook some sort of "sealing wax" (probably just beeswax, resin and maybe some sort of "chemical" thinning agent or maybe just linseed oil and then you can "soak" cloth in the sealing wax in a barrel.
Or maybe cook the cloth together with the other ingredients in a pot (that would save the extra item of "sealing wax", which might be used by other mods (but I think the chances are 99.995% that other mod authors will just invent their own sealing wax for whatever reasons).

So basically sail cloth would be quite stiff, water resistant and also quite heavy. Could also be used for tents, or water bags.
The balloon cloth would be more lightweigt.

[alpine sphinx]

afaik sail cloth doesn't seem to be sealed? it's a thicker, more durable fabric

balloon cloth could easily be sealed, needs to keep air in

[vapid bluff]

It's gotta be water proof, otherwise sailing won't be lasting long 🙂

[alpine sphinx]

oh right

cooking is a thing

[vapid bluff]

aaanyway, before daydreaming about more features, I need to repair the mod for 1.22 first 😬

[alpine sphinx]

indeed, good luck with that

[proven scroll]

Honestly, imo, ignore the people who complain about that sorta stuff. Like, I can understand if you want the mod to be accessible, but also, ultimately there will never be anything, ever that makes everyone happy. There will ALWAYS be someone that complains or dislikes something. (for example; if you cave to the people complaining about it being too hard, then you'll displease the people who want it to be hard) The important thing, imo, is that you focus on making something cohesive, good quality at what it does, and stick to your vision. If others don't like it, it's not for them, and that's fine.

[vapid bluff]

I've experimented a bit with having a config option to disable "patching VS recipes" to use TD items like awls and needles.
It kinda works, but it creates an absolute mess if you add other mods like Wool & More or Dressmakers:

• W&M doesn't know about not-patching-the recipes, so you get both a VS sail recipe and a "wool + TD recipe" next to each other (ignore that the new sail recipes also use support beams, I didn't get the memo until now), one using needles and one not.
• Some VS recipes for say shirts just slap cloth together with spit, while Dressmaker's new recipes use needles and twine for a similiar, but differently colored shirt.

😬

[vapid bluff]

Saw the mod, it looks really cute 🙂
I've had the idea to add "better sleeping bags" aka "hay bed roll + cloth" that let you sleep slightly longer and can still be fit onto the elk. It could be a small feature in TD or maybe it's own mod.
Is this something you plan for your mod? I don't want to replicate the work of others.

[quartz root]

Thanks! And no, I'll only add compatibility with Your mods and various tree mods and done I think.

[vapid bluff]

Then I'll have a go at this whenever I find time. I'm looking for an actual small feature instead of just repairing stuff I didn't break 🙂

[quartz root]

Btw. I've seen that TD is updated but still says is 1.21, did You forget to change it or didn't moved to 1.22 yet?

[vapid bluff]

it did not move to 1.22 yet - I'm currently working on it. I've only changed it "1.21.6 AND 1.21.7 are supported".
The "recently updated" view in ModDB is broken - whenever you change something (but not all, like the description) it pings it as updated. But my complains about this being a useless system were ignored.

[quartz root]

Oh, I was sure that it bumps only if you add new release... Yeah, useless indeed

[fickle star]

Not to mention annoying. I want to know all the recently updated mods, not the ones that were recently edited to say they're compatible with new versions. 😫

[vapid bluff]

Yep. The "solution" that was mentioned was to "follow mods" and then look at your "Home" page in the ModDB. Which means, you also need to log in. And allow the google scripts. And solve a captcha most of the times. 😒 For me this seemed a change that nobody requested, but it stayed because it took a lot of work 🙈

[fickle star]

And home page doesn't include new mods, or if it does only the 10 most recent ones, so if you've been away for a bit you have to trawl through the dozens of unupdated updated mods to find them. Following 100+ mods is unreasonable and will only become more unreasonable as VS becomes more and more popular

[vapid bluff]

Exactly my reasoning...

[fickle star]

Using VSLauncher to keep track of actual updates to mods has mostly worked alright though.

[quartz root]

Minor bug: There is missing Lang file

[vapid bluff]

Whops. This is in Expanded Matter, which is no longer a requirement 😒

[quartz root]

I didn't downloaded Expanded Matter yet, so that might be issue

And this time I'll ask in advance: can I use TD's (and W&M) logo in screenshoots when I'll finish compatibility patches? Something as I did with Biodiversity

[vapid bluff]

Sure, go ahead. They are open source.