Crossbows

[grizzled aspen]

windlass got -2s

[copper scaffold]

the animation is so long it's hard to notice

but good change

[grizzled aspen]

latch got -0.8s I think

from 4 to 3.2

[copper scaffold]

latch was already the rapidfire crossbow so while i did notice a tiny increase it doesn't feel significant, which is good as it is very well balanced

i think the repeater needs a redo on the aim sway

[grizzled aspen]

I was trying to get dps closer to bows

But bows still have the highest dps

[copper scaffold]

it already has a big downside of an increased firing delay which can make you lose the target, the extreme sway makes it almost unusable in practice

[grizzled aspen]

From what I heard, this one is the most popular, at least for some ppl.

It is meant to be close range

though

[copper scaffold]

in my experience most popular is latch followed by goat's foot

i have not seen anyone unironically use the repeater

[grizzled aspen]

If I allow it to use all bolts, will it make it OP?

[copper scaffold]

maybe it could just use a different kind of sway?

like only horizontal

keeps it close range while keeping it reliable

[copper scaffold]

definitely

i would love to use the repeater for more than a laugh, but the current iteration doesn't really allow that

[grizzled aspen]

Main problem is the sway?

[copper scaffold]

yes

the delay between firing and the shot coming out is enough balancing as is

[grizzled aspen]

It actually has the highest dispersion (unrelated to sway) among crossbows, its 90MOA

[copper scaffold]

i actually never feel dispersion on crossbows

[grizzled aspen]

simple is 50

[copper scaffold]

on guns i feel it all the time, crossbows feel perfectly accurate

which gives them an edge in certain situations

doesn't need overbalancing

crossbows have a firing delay which already adds "inaccuracy" of sorts, as you need to still be pointing at the target the moment the shot comes out

[grizzled aspen]

Dispersion is very low actually

[copper scaffold]

best keep it that way

[grizzled aspen]

This is how simple xbow 50 MOA looks like from 24 block distance

[copper scaffold]

ain't it just a simple bow with a trigger?

they feel identical

[grizzled aspen]

bows have no dispersion

[copper scaffold]

interesting

[grizzled aspen]

This is 90 MOA

[copper scaffold]

simple crossbow is more of a day 1 thing, i hardly ever use it when i get copper or a longbow

[grizzled aspen]

simple is substitute for simple bow for ppl that like crossbows more

[copper scaffold]

yeah it fits that role

repeater is very cheap but i don't mind that

if it gets redesigned maybe up the price to several strips

[grizzled aspen]

Does it really need to be more expensive?

[copper scaffold]

no

[grizzled aspen]

What can be the price for composite prod?

[copper scaffold]

8-12

[grizzled aspen]

Any reason for this values?

[copper scaffold]

feels right

if it remains a hunter exclusive craft that is

if not, cheaper

[grizzled aspen]

Btw, I have reworked damage tiers, though it is not relevant for hunting

[copper scaffold]

huh i don't actually remember what they were before

were windlass and goat lowered by a tier?

[grizzled aspen]

I added bonus damage tier to meteroirc iron bolts and steel bolts, and reduced steel crossbows damage tier by 1

[copper scaffold]

oh what i noticed about the bolts was the increased break chance on earlier ones

good balance

on crossbows and guns damage tiers rarely feel like they matter

maybe it's because i naturally gravitate towards using specific ones for different tasks

[grizzled aspen]

released patch with balacne changes

[grizzled aspen]

btw, simple crossbow deals 6 damage with crude bolts, and simple bow deals 4.5 damage with flint arrows

So it has some advantages besides they it is aimed and shot

So you can oneshot fox, raccon and hare with the crossbow, but not simple bow

[copper scaffold]

shows how little i use simple bow

for me it's a rapidfire option that's quickly discarded

time to see the patch

reworked repeater is great

very usable now

and the spread ensures it can't be abused at longer ranges

stirrup is now highly competitive especially for hunter

can be reloaded in an opening during a fight

[smoky halo]

if all combat overhaul features are turned off (keeping vanilla as far as possible), do hunters get their bonuses applied to crossbows?

[smoky halo]

@grizzled aspen pinging cause your profile says to do so :D

[copper scaffold]

no

[smoky halo]

ow :/ so this is just a big buff to blackguards?

[copper scaffold]

all co ranged options don't use vanilla ranged stats

no, overhaul's ranged is extremely strong

and vanilla ranged is extremely weak so those buffs don't matter anyway

[smoky halo]

but our classes are vanilla - how are they distinguished regarding the crossbows/firearms then?

[copper scaffold]

they aren't, these weapons are balanced around co

so in terms of combat, yes blackguard just wins

[smoky halo]

sad

time to change class I guess

[copper scaffold]

but you have the vanilla meta of spear spam available regardless

[smoky halo]

doesn't quite have the same inventory efficiency as crossbows + bolts

is there a way to make vanilla class traits affect these weapons?

(editing some files or something)

[copper scaffold]

no

[keen inlet]

my crossbow suddenyl stopped working

it will no longer reload

i also cant interact containers when its in my hands

[grizzled aspen]

Update mods

all of them

[keen inlet]

do you have to check them manually

[grizzled aspen]

Use modupdater tool from moddb

[keen inlet]

awesome that fixed it thank you

[lyric wedge]

1.6.5 has a typo in the configlib-patches.json under "durabilityByType/-windlass-" it's listed as durability_simwindlassple

think select and delete didn't work here 😄 (just mentioning it because it threw an error for me)

[grizzled aspen]

fixed

[stray hazel]

is it normal for these xbows to 1 tap u even in iron-steel armor? @grizzled aspen

like sure the temp gear amulet helps but y know

[copper scaffold]

shouldn't happen in armor

any unarmored parts?

[grizzled aspen]

no

[stray hazel]

Well.. idk about you but maybe check it? someone tested it on #1422640928207798292 and was able to one tap a guy in full iron and gambison. idk shit is crazy

I know it's strong but this seems stronger

[stray hazel]

nope

[grizzled aspen]

Full steel armor (helemet + chain + t-gamb) + windlass + steel bolt + head multiplier gives you 9.3 damage

So, test it and confirm it wrong

[stray hazel]

hmm I see

[stray hazel]

maybe they had full iron or just worse armor to get one shooted or close to it lol

[grizzled aspen]

iron instead of steel into head gives 31 damage

[stray hazel]

oh damm

ye he had steel bolts

sooo ig that explains it

that's normal right?

I'd make it maybe 15

[grizzled aspen]

I would say yes

it is 15 into torso

[stray hazel]

maybe head be 20

[grizzled aspen]

Windlass is meant to be strong

[stray hazel]

I noticed the Temporal gear amulet does protect you from death tho

[grizzled aspen]

Should it?

[stray hazel]

slow af relode time even lol

[grizzled aspen]

It is weaker than firearms though

[stray hazel]

looks like it yeah it's on my server we wear Temporal gear amulets and they give small glow and protects you from a hit that would kill you but then gets a cooldown

overall kinda cool

even emits some blue sparks

Well y know greenish blue

[grizzled aspen]

Blue sparks and red sparks (when hit in grace period) is CO second chance, not related to temporal gear amulets

And it has cooldown

it is also not related to crossbows

[stray hazel]

yeah just CO...but hey the amulet is a good counter to getting one shooted

useful

[copper scaffold]

do not nerf windlass

otherwise goat's foot becomes the best one

[grizzled aspen]

dont plan to

[fleet bone]

A distance Skeleton Shooter..Is So Dangerous...Shooting back is Almost not Working and if they know that...uff

[stray hazel]

SAD

[stray hazel]

dem crossbows be fucking powerful

[small cairn]

I have dinosaurs in my game, I was going to go hunt them with windless when I get it.

[molten turtle]

can we get more bolts in the "More Arrows" mod?

i NEED more bolts!!!

[grizzled aspen]

Why, more arrows mod is for players that dont have crossbows and firearms and dont have access to other damage types.

[celest lantern]

between goats foot and windlass which one is a better investment overall

[copper scaffold]

windlass is an eco gun

goat's foot is best general and cheaper

depends on your usecase

[celest lantern]

mostly hunting

i don't go out often to figth enemies

[copper scaffold]

then windlass

[celest lantern]

righty-o

time to retire the latchet crossbow

[copper scaffold]

no no don't do that

latch is great

latch is the most versatile crossbow

a blend of dps, speed and range

[molten turtle]

Because I want to do blunt damage with a crossbow?
Cross ow is far more likely to be on a server than firearms are.

[grizzled aspen]

Someone can make such mod, is very easy to make. I dont see a good enough reason to spend my time on it.

[celest lantern]

windlass oneshots female aurochs on bronze bolts damn

good investment

[keen inlet]

is there a way to make the class damage buffs apply to CO?

and on that same line do teh buffs from teh Alchemy mod apply to CO weapons or is that also incompatible?

[copper scaffold]

incompatible

but i'm positive there was a mod that made the stats apply to co

[stable narwhal]

Why does CO make all those buffs not apply. Does CO just overwrite final damage values somewhere? Seems odd

[copper scaffold]

it uses its own system afaik

[grizzled aspen]

It just removes speed check that is bugged in vanilla

[stable narwhal]

But that for some reason makes damage buffs incompatible unless they are specifically patched?

[grizzled aspen]

Ah, you mean vanilla traits for ranged weapons? No, they are not supported and wont be. There are new traits in place of them.
And I was talking about fall damage for some reason

[stable narwhal]

Well, Vanilla traits, Modded Class traits, buff effects from other mods, etc etc

Alchemy potions don't work with CO, for example.

i can understand wanting to disable the vanilla damage buffs from classes, but it seems that has also cascaded to disabling every damage buff from any source.
Which does end up feeling kinda bad 😛

[copper scaffold]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/27144

siimer made a patch for it

[grizzled aspen]

I haven't disabled anything, I just didn't add effects of these stats to the weapons.

Why would some random stat affect how much damage a crossbow deal? It does not make sense. All player stat can affect is how fast you operate crossbow.

And in CO all this vanilla stats are removed from the vanilla classes

So I see no problem here

[stable narwhal]

Tbh, I’m not talking about the vanilla stats, I’m referring to how it becomes incompatible with a large number of mods.
Likely because they use the default vanilla modifier to apply effects, like the Alchemy Mod adding ranged damage potions, or Xskills adding a ranged damage effect (though I think Xskills specifically added in CO compatibility)

Not something you need to change, exactly, though I am wondering if it’s easy to patch

[copper scaffold]

^

just use this

[stable narwhal]

If my guess is right, then yeah, that probably fixes most of the incompatibility issues

Idk how to read the code well enough to be sure if I’m right, I’m just deducing that if CO just removes the class modifier affecting weapons, then most of these mods are likely adjusting that modifier to produce their affects

[stable narwhal]

This is a simple thing so I’m guessing it’s fine, but have you checked if it works on 1.21.x?

[copper scaffold]

don't see why not

i like how co balances ranged instead

so maybe you should ask the other mods to adjust for co's proficiency stats as well

[stable narwhal]

It’s not that I dislike CO’s ranged balance.
It’s just it ends up being disappointing to, for example, be using Alchemy, spend all the time and effort into drying, grinding, and fermenting herbs into making a potent ranged damage buff potion only to find out it doesn’t do anything.

[copper scaffold]

ask alchemy if they can account for co as well with the archer potion

[stable narwhal]

Could try, likely also needs adjustment for melee since I’m guessing CO also disables that too.
But I’m suspecting it’ll be easier to use/make a patch than ask dozens of mod makers to adjust their mods to be compatible

[copper scaffold]

no, melee damage boosts work

[grizzled aspen]

You mean instead of letting other mods to make more interesting and balanced experience, lets bork CO balance and make experience worse?

[stable narwhal]

How is that your takeaway?

[grizzled aspen]

It is literally just the outcome of just using the patch

[stable narwhal]

well, if I want to do that, who are you to tell me my way of playing the game is wrong?

[copper scaffold]

you would be getting co profs + damage increase

[grizzled aspen]

I'm not telling that it is "wrong" or trying to prevent it

[stable narwhal]

Except you are telling me it’s wrong, that it “worsens the experience”

[grizzled aspen]

I dont tell that it is wrong, I just tell that it does worsen the experience. I mean if you ok with worse experience, go on.

[stable narwhal]

You realize that “worse” and “better” experience is subjective right?

That your opinion is not objective truth?

[copper scaffold]

objectivity is a thing in game design

but that's a can of worms

i don't think this is the place for it

(the discussion i mean)

[near fulcrum]

It's wild to me that people will get upset about a mod's direction and take offense when the creator has a different vision. A vision that you don't have to pay for even.

[stable narwhal]

I didn't take offense to his vision, I took offense to the condescending tone in which he responded to my desire to be allowed to play in a different way.

It's like if you say "Well, I prefer to play with surface rifts off" and I say "Well, Sure, If you wanna ruin the entire game and make the experience worse then go ahead."

[stable narwhal]

I tested btw, This patch works and makes non-class buffs from mods such as Alchemy apply to ranged weapons from CO.

Thank you for suggesting

[indigo bone]

Quick question for the mod's author. Bolts don't work with Salty's Click to Pick mod. Is there a way to fix this?

[copper scaffold]

ask salty?

[indigo bone]

I asked, but I have a feeling the bolts don't behave like arrows. But that's just a guess.

They work with other items from this modification, just not with fired bolts.

[grizzled aspen]

Fired bolts are not item entities and not vanilla arrows, should be solved on their side, unless it is about model postion missmatching selection box.

[indigo bone]

I don't know, the only problem is that you can't pick up a fired bolt.

[icy grotto]

i also should point out a bit of a balance issue here that I've heard come up, though this one is probably repeated more often

ive seen complaints in PvP circles that stacking a bunch of loaded crossbows in your inventory is a very dominant strategy, to the point where it makes the mod almost a no go for some

[copper scaffold]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/nocrossbowspam

[icy grotto]

oh how useful

thank you

[copper scaffold]

look at all of siimer's mods

he runs a pvp server

[bronze storm]

How do you make the Goat's foot parts?

[copper scaffold]

the crossbow or the namesake?

the answer for both is smithing

handbook says it all

[elder ibex]

what would it take to get a cranequin crossbow?

[grizzled aspen]

...

Same as firearms

[fleet bone]

Maltiez is done haha

[grizzled aspen]

This mod was finished content wise like 1.5 years ago

[fleet bone]

Still love it ^^

[versed kelp]

Need more modders to take up the challenge of making content expansion mods for Crossbows and Firearms

Let's see the unhinged shit like volley guns

I want to be reloading for half a season before firing again

[woven flume]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/33439 Volley guns and pistols have been done already

[lyric lodge]

how do I reload?

i have a simple crossbow

[lyric lodge]

https://medal.tv/games/vintage-story/clips/lBhCLB9FZKOqMeaQC?invite=cr-MSxFSVosMjU3MjE3NjM0&v=30

any idea how to reload?

[grizzled aspen]

installation problem

[lyric lodge]

strange, I have overhaul lib and config lib, reinstall crossbows mod?

[grizzled aspen]

Restart the game first

then do the usual stuff if it does not help

you can also ask for help here:

https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/454909656230526976

[lyric lodge]

managed to solve the issue, i just reinstalled the three mods

[uncut pulsar]

How do I reload the crossbow?

[uncut pulsar]

Uh

Skill issue

I couldn't because both hands must be free.

Pure skill issue XD

[grizzled aspen]

There were no red text warning on top of hotbar?

[uncut pulsar]

I had it, but I don't understand English, and Google Translate wasn't very helpful.

But in the end it worked out, thank you.

[lyric lodge]

Blocked

[opaque wasp]

Damn

[tiny birch]

ive found a bug where my bolt will fly through mobs without damaging them

[compact shadow]

May I ask that you say “with” or “without” because my brain is kinda still toasting after reading your sentence for the 5th time now

[grizzled aspen]

outdated xskills was cuasing it in the past

[tiny birch]

mb

[tiny birch]

ive got the latest version , if its just that , ill just live with it

[grizzled aspen]

reproduce in creative world with just crossbows and overhaul lib installed

[tiny birch]

kk

[tiny birch]

still does it

[grizzled aspen]

send client-main and server-main logs after reproducing the bug in creative world

[tiny birch]

dm or in here?

[grizzled aspen]

here

[tiny birch]

thank you btw

[tiny birch]

ballls

mb man

it works, sorry if i wasted your time boss, im dumb

[runic nebula]

I think the recipe for the Goat's Foot crossbow is using the wrong item

Here's the recipe, it uses Steel Crossbow Lock Parts

Meanwhile the Goat's Foot item is unused

[grizzled aspen]

...

Try using this crossbow in creative world

[runic nebula]

aah I see

The only lever crossbows I've seen irl had the mechanism integrated

[opaque wasp]

Then it probably wasn't a Goat's Foot

Those are external Spanning devices for crossbows designed to use them, they have little pegs on the side of the Lock, I believe they are called Anvils, but don't quote me on that

Could be a Latch Crossbow if it was integrated

[blazing jasper]

Did the crossbows get a damage increase?

ok. I think I get it. The crossbows were made stronger and the bolts were made weaker.

[opaque wasp]

Huh interesting

[blazing jasper]

The stirrup crossbow is so satisfying to use.

[gaunt burrow]

maltiez, do you plan to make the repeating crossbow able to use any bolts? i vaguely remember you mentioning such an idea

[grizzled aspen]

may be

[gaunt burrow]

:3

[mortal portal]

Helloo, so do i have to use brass plate for the crossbows or can that be bronze?

It doesnt change in the handbook, but feels little weird for it to be only brass, but im no corssbow maker

[tranquil helm]

watching blumineck and saw this crossbow designed to use rocks as ammo
curious if there's any chance of you considering it for an addition to the mod

[grizzled aspen]

No, the mod is finished

[tranquil helm]

alright

[opaque wasp]

Maltiez's rationale is that a Stone or Pellet Bow isn't terribly useful in the game, historically they can fire small pebbles and rocks but they are meant for shaped projectiles as they are far more accurate, typically it'd be shaped stones, clay or lead pellets, they'd be used as range toys, for shooting indoors at targets or for small game hunting, as you can imagine you can't fire a crossbow bolt at a small bird or rabbit without it basically being ruined for anything other than soup making, though you'd use a blunt arrow/bolt for that

We don't have these kind of concerns in game

[quiet hare]

Hi Maltiez pre apologies for maybe being a little off topic for this question but what is your stance on published mods that edit parts of your mods? I read up on your mod page on combat overhaul and saw nothing on that regard. I made a mod that adds weapon slow when equipped and a further slow when actually swinging / firing the weapon. Would uploading with credit to your mods be ok? Lmk

[grizzled aspen]

If it is a patch, it is fine

[deep peak]

is this crossbow are compatible with the xskill? I found like the damage for archer, and also accuracy

[empty jacinth]

crossbow and firearms They're bugged, even the forks aren't working with xskills.

[daring ether]

I hope we get an update for this mod soon, if not that then even a decent Fork would be awesome, I wanna go back to shooting Horrific Beasts with High Velocity Sticks again.

[marble sorrel]

I reckon these just might get added to base game seeing maltiez is currently working with the devs on 1.23

[grizzled aspen]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/crossbowsfork

[uneven urchin]

what if moddb page doesnt work?

[opaque cipher]

fork or original?
Original is still there, but outdated until dev team picks it up (if they'll do it at all)