runelite

[sacred spindle]

And I've played both of these games

[north steppe]

firestorm is the only client people use for second life

[fiery topaz]

same thing could be done for laundering... buy the gold with a "dirty" credit card you own, sell it to gold seller and get money, now you have "cleaner" money

[sacred spindle]

You'd be hard pressured to find a runescape player that hasn't heard about runelite

[north steppe]

it's the runelite of second life

[sacred spindle]

Lol second life is pretty obscure in an of itself

I'm talking about the major MMORPGs

[north steppe]

the biggest right now is ffxiv

[inland shadow]

ffxiv doesn't have a full-on third party client, it has injected mods

[north steppe]

which is like having runelite plugins

[inland shadow]

yes but it's not a full-on client

[green jolt]

wow doesnt have 3rd party clients either with the exception of injected bot clients

[sacred spindle]

Wow has addons, that's not the point though

[south ice]

Nope. That’s not what laundering money is either.

[sacred spindle]

If runescape had plugin support we wouldn't be having this discussion presumably

[green jolt]

true

[fiery topaz]

by what definition? it's concealing the identity of the funds

[sacred spindle]

They're working towards that, or something to this extent, and that's directly related to runelite and the HD plugin

[south ice]

That one. Yeah. Selling gp is still illegal. So where is the laundering

[eager river]

Selling gp isn’t illegal

[vocal pilot]

They should add a creative mode to runescape

[eager river]

It’s against games tos

[sacred spindle]

A little off topic but you know what's the craziest part about all of that. People brought up when Jagex said they were working on improving security like 2 years ago. And I found out today that runescape passwords are not case sensitive.

[fiery topaz]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[sacred spindle]

Like with all the hacking problems how come that was not immediately addressed like a millenium ago

[fiery topaz]

engine work

[south ice]

Are you saying you can file that income for taxes? In what country, panama?

[fiery topaz]

idk, possible their database is case insensitive... but lame excuse

not that hard to change

but it'd affect a lot of people potentially

[sacred spindle]

There are so many hacked accounts every day in runescape, it's one of the game's biggest issues. But I never knew passwords were not case sensitive until today.

[eager river]

Call it a hobby untill a certain amount, then it becomes an income which ofc u will get taxed

[eager river]

My favourite is the too many login attempts ransoms

Pay 500$ to have access to your account

[sacred spindle]

That too. Like runescape is so broken in some of the most rudimentary aspects

[somber aspen]

any sort of income is taxable, usually (depending on where you live)

[sacred spindle]

Name sniping

Like so many crazy things

[somber aspen]

I pay tax on eg patreon donations

its dumb

[fiery topaz]

irs doesn't care if what you do is illegal, as long as you pay them what you should be

[cursive gale]

ya you can be taxed on basically anything as long as your earnings are above a certain low amount

[south ice]

That wasn’t the discussion. We were talking the legality of selling gp.

[sacred spindle]

Tell that to scientology

[cursive gale]

oh you can sell whatever

its against game rules but nobody will stop the sale of a service

[sacred spindle]

Selling GP is pretty illegal but I think it has nothing to do with paying taxes

[somber aspen]

most people confuse "legality" with "tos"

[eager river]

^

[fiery topaz]

selling gp is definitely legal

[eager river]

Thankyou

[somber aspen]

like you won't get arrested for selling gp. you will get arrested for selling gp and then not paying your taxes. maybe.

[south ice]

So selling gp is perfectly fine?

[eager river]

Yes

But u will get banned

[somber aspen]

you may or may not get chain banned

[eager river]

From the game

[somber aspen]

:d

[green jolt]

I wish it got people banned lol

seems thats not really the case

[sacred spindle]

I think there is illegal as in being a criminal activity but people also use the term illegal for things that are not allowed by the game

[eager river]

Gold sellers get banned more than buyers

[fiery topaz]

people get banned for selling, there are just so many people

[sacred spindle]

I'm sure this is a semantic discussion

[cursive gale]

it does but honestly the people who really invest in selling gold

have degrees of separation between accounts

[south ice]

Im not talking jagex tos. Solemnly from a judicial perspective.

[cursive gale]

so if they aren't insanely bad at what they're doing any ban is a small set back

jagex can't really stop it without just disabling trade

[zealous nova]

Well, I can tell you as someone who has daily contact with Jagex anti-cheating, that selling gp is, in fact, extremely illegal.

[eager river]

If you make 100k of selling gp and don’t pay your tax ur gonna be in for a bad time

[sacred spindle]

They do track a lot of rwt activity, and regularly ban people. Of course they can't arrest those people but if they're using criminal activity to buy, or get the gold sold, there are obvious legal repercussions

[zealous nova]

But you're more likely to get chain-banned on all of your accounts, than arrested, or lawyers sent after you, unless you're running a website.

[south ice]

You talking tos or law?

[zealous nova]

TOS indicates that it's illegal activity

Like it's against tos sure, but it's also illegal irl

[sacred spindle]

You can hack a runescape account that has membership and items in it, sell its gold, and I'm sure that's some sort of crime being committed. At least one

[fiery topaz]

i haven't heard of any laws against it. Might be illegal in Japan

[south ice]

Exactly my point. Half the people here claimed otherwise.

[versed scaffold]

i dont think theres a law against performing a service online and getting paid for it

[cursive gale]

tos is not law is the main point

[versed scaffold]

considering streaming is a career

[zealous nova]

Yeah idk what they're saying, you're selling in-game assets owned by Jagex. That's illegal 😛 since you don't own your runescape account and you don't therefore own the assets attributed to your runescape account.

[cursive gale]

tos are often flimsy and would be thrown out in court

[south ice]

There are plenty of laws that generally reinforce tos tho.

[eager river]

Hacking another players account is definitely illegal for one

[cursive gale]

usually when you get the c and d or get taken to court

[versed scaffold]

i suppose that stance can be argued

but i dont see it going anywhere

[eager river]

But it would get thrown out

[cursive gale]

it'll be for copyright laws or doing something illegal to obtain the accounts or money to fund memberships

[eager river]

“He hacked my account” “ok”

[fiery topaz]

there have been at least 2 cases in the US saying it's not illegal to break TOS

[zealous nova]

This isn't a US game though, refer to UK law and Jagex TOS for goldselling

[fiery topaz]

does jagex not have nexus in the US?

[zealous nova]

Not as far as I'm aware

[fiery topaz]

well there's that i guess

[sacred spindle]

Jagex has already had issues with credit card companies before, that was the entire reason behind the free trade and wilderness changes etc, it's not unreasonable to think that credit card companies might already be on the edge with them. Speaking as someone new to the game, runescape real life gold worth is directly linked to OSRS content overall, a lot of people have videos with high view counts with titles like "10000$ worth name stolen" "X$ money lost" like runescape gold is an actual currency

A lot of people do treat it like a currency, there are the whole venezuelan gold farmers thing

[cursive gale]

of course i mean

if you've been around for long enough you'll notice that runescape is the game where insane things happen

[magic cape]

How tf do people even stake 10,000

like wtf in this game is worth that much

[south ice]

True. But it is not acknowledged as an official currency.

[eager river]

@magic cape nothing

[cursive gale]

mod audi, jed, rwt empires

countries taking over parts of the wilderness

etc

[eager river]

People literally stake their life savings

[sacred spindle]

I might have exaggerated, but some names are worth a lot of gold, theres botting, theres rwt, people making profit out of illegal activities, there's gambling and addiction

Like this rabbit hole goes deep af

[eager river]

Thanks captain

[sacred spindle]

Isn't it all a civil context of legality though, you can't really go to jail for selling gold, but you can be taken to court by Jagex and probably fined

[eager river]

Didn’t know

[cursive gale]

yeah i mean people go work at jagex and get involved in it

[green jolt]

One of my college roommates lost tens of thousands staking. Its so sad

[cursive gale]

its clearly profitable and they're struggling to really have any control

its been insane for over a decade

[sacred spindle]

People are paying their bills and making a living out of rwt in venezuela, and its not just a couple dozen

Its like thousands of people

[cursive gale]

there are probably more people attempting to rwt, bot, gold farm or whatever for profit

than are employed by jagex

by far

[eager river]

That one guy a couple years ago who hacked over 100 phats in 2 weeks

[sacred spindle]

There are payment services that pay venezuelans half the golds worth, just to sell it again internationally

[eager river]

Zack or something

[zealous nova]

Is this runelite related talk anyway

[eager river]

Yes

[sacred spindle]

It is

[zealous nova]

shouldn't this be in #general lol

[eager river]

No

[cursive gale]

i guess loosely you could say runelite despite being good for the real players is connected and bad for jagex

[sacred spindle]

Oh, maybe not much lol, I think we could go to general

[cursive gale]

im sure a lot of the bot clients are branches of runelite

[zealous nova]

Yeah I think this should be in #general 😛

[versed scaffold]

90% of the chat in here should be general

[cursive gale]

and a lot of the account stealing websites are fake rl downloads

[zealous nova]

No official versions of runelite support botting, so that's a bit of a stretch.

[versed scaffold]

its all just circle jerking about hd

but itl be gone in a few days thankfully

[sacred spindle]

this is like the cool general

[zealous nova]

yeah true

[cursive gale]

its not really a stretch its open to the public to do with as they please

[sacred spindle]

For me it's more to do with the fact that Jagex seems to be pushing the C++ client and ban on java clients rather underhandedly, they're not being clear with their communication

[eager river]

Yea but goodluck

[cursive gale]

it would be crazy if they didn't use runelite as a base in a lot of cases

[sacred spindle]

So that's my direct relation to the subject and runelite

[cursive gale]

to blend in

[eager river]

Runelite+ 😩

[fiery topaz]

Yes, ultimately it'd be the end goal for them, but they don't wanna tell anyone yet

[sacred spindle]

They wanna force the steam C++ clients under our throats because they think (maybe rightfully so) its the best initial approach to all the other problems, like botting, cheating, etc

But they're doing it the wrong way

There's already a lot of resistance to changing clients. HD would just make that worse

[fiery topaz]

It won't do much in the grand scheme of things anyway

[eager river]

C++ bot clients would be better than Java bot clients

[green jolt]

^^^

[north steppe]

yup

[sacred spindle]

IDK anything about that. Some people say it would be effective, some people said it would be temporary

[green jolt]

it will destroy all public clients for a few months

[zealous nova]

Do you have any evidence to support that? Much of what I've seen has been to the contrary

[green jolt]

but people who actually code their own cheats/bots wont have any problem doing it again in c++

[sacred spindle]

If anything, even beyond that, Jagex wants to regain control over the client most people use to play their game. They already have a lot of people using their client on steam and mobile, and they're out to get the rest of us

[north steppe]

steam client does not have "a lot of people"

[cursive gale]

i mean the obvious thing that should have happened a long time ago

[sacred spindle]

Thats a general statement and it's pretty subjective

[cursive gale]

is that jagex just actually maintains their own game client

[eager river]

@zealous nova what have you seen?

[cursive gale]

the only reason we have hd mode or runelite is because they weren't doing their job for so long

that the community decided to do it for them

[zealous nova]

A lot 😛 relating to bot clients, scripts, etc and all that's related to it. There doesn't seem to be much of an indication that c++ would confer longer-lasting bots than the current java version.

[sacred spindle]

I don't think C++ will end botting, but there could be benefits to having a better client anyway. I'm not sure they would warrant not having runelite anymore but it's not really up to us. I do think they're working towards that and that java clients will not be allowed for much longer

[cursive gale]

it wouldn't stop or end botting but

if jagex were in control of the only allowed client to play the game

it would become more challenging to do

[zealous nova]

If you'd like ben I can invite you to our discord and you can discuss w/ our detectives any findings that you come across though, since we'd like to forward that over

[sacred spindle]

For jagex it would be all benefits. Having control over the client everyone uses, etc. But I'm still being optimistic about a consumer perspective, although this latest decision regarding the hd plugin doesnt help their side

[zealous nova]

prior to it becoming a big concern, ex any steam related clients should be sent to tipoff@jagex

[cursive gale]

they were actually kind of winning the war just before they dropped eoc

[eager river]

Haha no thanks 😬

[zealous nova]

Bot detector discord 😛 not a botting disc lmao

[north steppe]

It's a bit silly to question ferrariic when it comes to botting

[cursive gale]

and then we all went back to what we play on now

[north steppe]

he's a botting expert (not in the way you think)

[zealous nova]

We don't like bots 'round these parts

[eager river]

You have detectives

🕵️

[zealous nova]

🕵️

[north steppe]

🤤

[sacred spindle]

IIRC wow is c++ and it has a fuckton of bots, so yes it would be very naive to think C++ would END botting. But it would definitely have a good result, or at least I imagine so

[eager river]

We are mutual friends with a botter tho

[cursive gale]

botting/gold selling is kind of just a product of the runescape game design though unfortunately its like hyper incentivized

[zealous nova]

That's unpaid runescape janitor to you sir

[eager river]

🐵

[zealous nova]

DM the name i'll fwd it along

[north steppe]

im one of your first users you doof i know who u are

superjannie

[cursive gale]

most games have gear that is bound/unsellable that you earn by playing and the impact of buying or selling gold is low

[north steppe]

i just change my name constantly

you knoww this by now

[zealous nova]

❤️ :p haha

[eager river]

U can see it in our mutual friends

[cursive gale]

but in this game you cut the line and get so far ahead by having more wealth in game

that its profitable to sell at extreme levels

[zealous nova]

Weird, no mutual servers. I'm gonna pass it along one sec. I add so many randoms that dm me I forget who is who at this point lmao

[eager river]

Rip

[sacred spindle]

I think a good question to ask yourself to begin with, is, were you be willing to change clients if Jagex provided a client that was as good as runelite?
If yes, would you be willing to change clients if it didn't provide as much as runelite, but otherwise improved the game (minimizing the amount of botters, cheaters, AHK scripts, etc).

Like, its how much you'd compromise for a good client, that's what they want. A client that players would switch to with minimum damage

And that's a fucking hard task

[eager river]

Nope

Nothing they can make will be as open as runelite

[north steppe]

jeff bezos car

[sacred spindle]

Well that's what they want in the end

[zealous nova]

jeff bezos car?

[eager river]

They won’t

[sacred spindle]

Let's see how they will go about that

[north steppe]

isn't that crazy?

imagine that

how would that work haha

[zealous nova]

It would just be 4 amazon drones duct taped together lol

[eager river]

Runelite barely existed at one point and just like HD, jmods were spammed with death threats by keyboard warriors

[cursive gale]

my fear with a jagex client being the only one

is that they would take that opportunity to neglect their client and features again

things like runelite keep them honest

[north steppe]

it's just jeff bezos stretching his body out so you can lie on top of him while his factory workers carry him

[eager river]

They let things get too big

Before doing anything

[green jolt]

honestly if runelite means they dont have to develop their own client and divert resources towards new content instead i would much prefer that

[eager river]

They should have shut down HD within the first couple months

[cursive gale]

jagex is REALLY bad about having readable mechanics in their games too

the inferno for example is a piece of content that relies on people understanding how game ticks work

and those ticks aren't visible in the game whatsoever

[sacred spindle]

I don't think a company can provide such good service without a plugin system similar to what runelite has right now and wow has with their addon system. Jagex themselves will never provide as many options as an open source alternative

[cursive gale]

they do stuff like that all over the place

[zealous nova]

like a bear rug

[sacred spindle]

But that's a compromise they might be willing to take

[cursive gale]

runelite solves a lot of those weird issues with plugins that track what is going on

in a way that is more easily readable

[eager river]

All new end game content is like that

[green jolt]

not really

[sacred spindle]

addons work like that in wow, but I don't think jagex want such freedom

And even in wow, addons have been nerfed for some activities

[green jolt]

you can do ToB and PnM easily without any plugins

[sacred spindle]

Because they were trivializing mechanics

[green jolt]

you dont have to tickflick at all

[sacred spindle]

Runelite has an aspect of that, it does trivialize some bosses

[green jolt]

unless you are going for mega effeciency

[sacred spindle]

And I'm sure the devs take that into account

[eager river]

They’re limited heavily in what they can do

[sacred spindle]

What's the point of working in a boss if all the player will do is click the right blinking square and avoid the other blinking square

[cursive gale]

tick manipulation is just one example though where they kind of fail to visually represent what is happening

most games really try to avoid situations like that because it feels bad and isn't good for new players to experience

[green jolt]

like with wow putting literally everything on the global cooldown since it was never clear to new players that they could stack abilities simulatneously

[cursive gale]

thats also why they implement other changes like in the gauntlet there is now an animation change for when the boss swaps attack styles

[green jolt]

same with hydra

but that was just more of an annoyance

[tiny shale]

so uh

[cursive gale]

like the inferno for example if every mob played an animation that ended with the tick they attack on

[tiny shale]

about the discussions between jagex and 117

[sacred spindle]

I'm sure there are several QoL plugins in runelite that Jagex would rather not have, but they can't ban outright because they understand the reason some people do wanna have it. It is a fine line though. But I can see their side. People already want OSRS because they don't like modern mmorpg practices, such as having braindead quests were you just click the NPCs with ? icons and kill x mobs etc. But at the same time, a lot of people use quest helper and don't read quest text at all. So go figure.

[tiny shale]

do you think well get runescape hd ?

[cursive gale]

flicking would go from being a skill to something that isn't really hard for most people in that instance

a lot of the hardest things in osrs are hard because its difficult to even see what is happening to begin with

which is kind of weird

[sacred spindle]

Imagine if quest helper was standard implemented into the game, people would hate it, but at the same time it's a widely used plugin

[cursive gale]

probably but they're just silly

i imagine theres like 100 people in the world that actually do rs questing without reading guides

[sacred spindle]

You could use the same argument for HD. Without the whole HD plugin debacle, sure some people would love HD, but if 117 hadn't worked on it and we didn't have it ready, I'm not that sure it would be approved in a poll. It's much more about the overall situation

A lot of OSRS is the charm of the polygon looking graphics and nostalgia

[cursive gale]

i honestly think the hd plugin was an obvious upgrade/addition to osrs from day 1

[sacred spindle]

So the discussion is more about the clients themselves and how jagex is acting and not communicating clearly, much more than hd itself

[cursive gale]

people like to bring up nostalgia or charm but if you remember

[sacred spindle]

Well that's an unpopular opinion to say the least, I'm sure a lot of people just wanted runescape pre-EOC graphics and all hurdles included

[cursive gale]

we got rs hd in 2008 one year after the osrs backup

and most of the people wanted osrs not because it was 2007

[sacred spindle]

You're definitely in the minority at least for when OSRS was released

[cursive gale]

but because it wasn't eoc

most of those guys that quit due to eoc and play osrs were just taking refuge from all of the awful things they did in the last couple years leading into eoc

[tiny shale]

Ill be honest.

[cursive gale]

where they just quit

[tiny shale]

I have 0 nostalgia for the old game

I joined osrs in 2019 and thats the first time i played a runescape game

I just think the combat and gameplay loop of osrs is much better than rs3, and thats the only thing i care about.

[sacred spindle]

Well at this point that's waaaaay off topic. I'm talking about when OSRS was released

By now the nostalgia trip is wayyy overdue

This isn't even up to discussion anymore, by now we should have HD whether it's official or not

But I was trying to play devil's advocate on jagex side

[green jolt]

2011 graphics would bring me alot more nostalgia XD

[sacred spindle]

The community is pretty bipolar in some aspects

[cursive gale]

ya the nostalgia stuff is just slightly triggering to me lol because its basically an excuse to brush off obvious improvements to a game that isn't nostalgic at all in 2021

[tiny shale]

So in my own humble opinion, I want new huge skills, better graphics (lighting systems and weather cycles would be so gooood) ect ect

[cursive gale]

its like they're low key trying to save face for ruining rs3

[sacred spindle]

There's the whole pve x pvm thing, the whole thing about skills never being approved in polls

[cursive gale]

by pretending osrs is a nostalgia trip

[sacred spindle]

Like imagine trying to develop new content for osrs

[cursive gale]

and not just a better game

[tiny shale]

osrs is just rs3 but not ruined by years of fuck ups

[sacred spindle]

And they're so careful about not fucking up that thing just doesn't get approved

You just get harder and harder difficulties and arbitrary challenges

Of the same content

Or recolors

[tiny shale]

they're not adding shit which annoys me

[torn pendant]

Well let's say this oldschool runescape is based off of 474/498 HD came in at 508

[sacred spindle]

Well if they add shit they can fuck up

That's the thing

[tiny shale]

Like the latest content i can think of is 'sort of' summoning in the arceuus book which they pussyfooted anyway

[sacred spindle]

Players want jagex to take risk, but don't want them to risk anything they have right now

Any new equipment is power creep, any new skill is too useless or too overpowered

[cursive gale]

yeah jagex obviously recognized the need for improved graphics like

shortly after the version this game is based off of

so it should've been obvious from the start in 2013

they just didn't have employees being paid to work on the game

[torn pendant]

Yep

[tiny shale]

improved graphics are literally just more f the same content. I want more areas, more skills and more training methods 💦 . I dunno how this isn't the common opinion in the community

[sacred spindle]

Jagex wasn't considering HD at all, if anything it was an afterthought they had in a happy hour, it's nowhere near their priorities

[torn pendant]

The reason why HD a problem is because you need two models for every weapon etc, and player skeletons are different

[sacred spindle]

They just announced it right now because they don't want people to be even more discouraged from the C++ steam client

[cursive gale]

thats why they should've done essentially what 117 did

clean up textures and lighting

basically just making it a pretty painting over what is already there

[torn pendant]

Yes, but walls are models aswell

[sacred spindle]

The whole thing comes up to transparency. It's really not about the HD plugin itself

[torn pendant]

But at least its not items with equiping etc

[sacred spindle]

It's about the clients, and what jagex's plans are to the future of java, but they're not being clear and that pisses people off

[tiny shale]

its not about the hd. The anger is about how jagex did it last minute, and how it's intruding on the future of all 3rd party clients

[cursive gale]

well if they're smart

[torn pendant]

Yeah

[cursive gale]

java is on the way out

they've already invested into a new and higher performance client

[tiny shale]

The c++ client will never be as good as the runelite client.

[cursive gale]

trying to maintain java alongside it is useless to them in the end

and so it'll get phased out

[torn pendant]

Exactly^ but what is ceazy is they said they are making their own which they clearly said they were also, there is like 3 other HD clients out atm.. As well lmaooo but obv nothing integrated like 117’s for runelite

[blazing glen]

anyone know when they gonna add the plugin?

[sacred spindle]

If they plan on banning java clients in say 2 years, right now would be the best time to start communicating or giving hints about it, explaining why you're doing it, what your plans are etc. Not just discourge third party clients, do some corporate speak about it and then just change everything in the last minute

[blazing glen]

since jagex shit themselves after they got nuked with negative feedback

[cursive gale]

im just assuming thats the logic they will follow

[torn pendant]

Yeah they should’ve let 117 know

[cursive gale]

because if you look at the rs3 clients

thats exactly what they did

[torn pendant]

That's not right

[cursive gale]

they updated and eventually dropped support for the older ones

[sacred spindle]

At this point I'm not sure if they're expecting it to be. They just expect it to be good enough to maintain most people, as dire as it may sound

[torn pendant]

What they did to him honestly, their stance was “we aren't going to do it if someone wants to create it go ahead” now someone does it and now they’ve been working on something lol I call BS

[sacred spindle]

Because as I said, again, several choices come to design choices. They don't want people trivializing bosses and activities with blinking squares. They have a design idea they want people to follow.

[cursive gale]

their c++ client is honestly a great experience if you get into situations where you dont use runelite plugins

[sacred spindle]

But they just don't have as much control when it comes to 3rd party plugins.

[cursive gale]

the problem is that they neglected all of the other stuff that runelite helps with

[tiny shale]

I entirely agree. They know they cannot have as much customizability and utility that the runelite client has, or the development power that the open source model provides. They just see an absolute need to consolidate the power of service of their game, but also know most players will leave with the current state of the client

[cursive gale]

the weird thing about jagex to me at the point they're at

is how they dont just build the c++ client to support installing mods to it directly

much like wow addons etc

[sacred spindle]

Well, as I see, they will add most QoL features and plugins that they think fits their design choices, and then will ban java clients. So their compromise is to get the closest to it as it appeases people

[cursive gale]

and just police what is possible with an addon api

[sacred spindle]

But with no added plugins at all. Just as much as needed

[cursive gale]

they're already deep into that end of the pool anyways

[tiny shale]

RIP doorkicker

[cursive gale]

instead of trying to fight to escape it might as well just embrace it

[sacred spindle]

That kind of is the OSRS philosophy anyway. It has old school in the name

[broken ginkgo]

i heard they've already reversed their HD decision...is that true?

[cursive gale]

no

they're discussing it now

[sacred spindle]

Like the devs do have a game philosophy they follow, and they are always walking on eggs with everything because of the poll system

[broken ginkgo]

ah

[cursive gale]

where before it was a definite no

now its a maybe

[sacred spindle]

Adam said they would talk at least over the next days so I don't have any hope of definite answer before the next week

[cursive gale]

i personally think we're going to see it but they clearly have some demands/stipulations

since its not out right now

and they have to talk

[sacred spindle]

I think they will allow the plugin because they're aware its off their hands now, but they'd rather not allow it

Maybe they didn't expect as much backlash, but if it was up to them, they wouldn't allow it

[cursive gale]

yeah they totally got backed down by their community freaking out

[tiny shale]

at this point theres definitely an element of saving face

perhaps they expected it to be very quiet if they did it suddenly?

[cursive gale]

i think its more like some guy at a desk was unaware but technically in charge

[sacred spindle]

I think it was more of a "you need to make a decision right now" and they just panicked and picked the wrong decision

[cursive gale]

found out randomly because they don't pay any attention

[timid remnant]

are the riots still going on in w302

[cursive gale]

and just said no

so the rest of the office had to deal with that for a day

and here we are

[fiery topaz]

Yeah very likely

[sacred spindle]

And you have to consider that the OSRS team is a small part in Jagex, most of their resources are in other sectors

[fiery topaz]

"There's a hd mod coming out? Why didn't anyone say anything?!"

[sacred spindle]

OSRS is a complicated beast because they don't wanna put effort into it, but image wise it's the most important one

So you have a dichotomy between the higher ups and the PR team

Like economically and development wise RS3 is their focus, but image wise its all OSRS

[timid remnant]

wheres mod matt k when we need him

[sacred spindle]

so if they fuck up osrs it will fuck up rs3 by collateral

[cursive gale]

its just a full on fumble because it turned into their biggest earner and most popular game but they keep pretending that isn't happening

or maybe the guy in charge overall is just an idiot im not sure

[timid remnant]

Mod Mat K is the man we need rn

he would kick ass and take names

[sacred spindle]

Jagex doesn't make as much money as one would expect. It makes like, 5% of the money candy crush does yearly. Or something to that extent

[royal gorge]

why would the higher ups be directly against HD, thats what I don't get? I feel like if the case was made that it would bring in my players/money then they'd be for it

[timid remnant]

Mat is at another company though

[cursive gale]

yeah but when your biggest game is a little box with a link to another website

on your games main webpage

something funny is going on

[sacred spindle]

Well there are several reasons but I'm not sure I can walltext

[royal gorge]

are there any key summary points?

[timid remnant]

Candy Crush isn't a fair comparison tbh

it's always had MTX pretty much and has always been a highly mobile game.

[cursive gale]

thats why everyone was so upset @royal gorge

[timid remnant]

it's designed around mtx

[cursive gale]

it doesn't make sense

[sacred spindle]

It would bring more players to OSRS, it can take players away from MTX, where there are MTX.
It can make OSRS look just as good as rs3 discouraging players from trying RS3 where the money's at.
It would discourge players from using the steam c++ they're putting the most effort towards

[timid remnant]

games like candy crush want you to pay to play.

[sacred spindle]

I think these are some of the points

[cursive gale]

they listed their earnings though

where the osrs subs > mtx from rs3

that changed a couple years ago

i think thats more of a statement on the state of rs3 though

[sacred spindle]

It's an open secret that jagex wants control over the most used clients again, and that's why they're working towards the C++ client. Thus, any improvement to java clients would be seen as contrary to that

[royal gorge]

ah yeah, wonder how legitimate that idea is though, surely just graphics doesnt draw you away from rs3 to os

[cursive gale]

it draws away new players

[fiery topaz]

No but lines get blurred

[cursive gale]

veteran players quit or joined osrs already for the most part

and people aren't really changing sides often at this point

[sacred spindle]

There are plenty of arguments against jagex's decision, I'm just pointing some of the more obvious reasons why they would be against HD

[cursive gale]

i've listened to this conversation a few times with new players

[royal gorge]

i see, but then you wonder about the hd jagex had in mind

[cursive gale]

they complain that osrs is ugly but are warned away by a large amount of negativity from trying rs3 at all

they'll say things like "it looks way better but i've heard that game is awful"

when talking about rs3

worth of mouth basically really hurts rs3

deservedly i suppose

[sacred spindle]

RS3 has a bad image, in contrast to OSRS, that's one of the reasons jagex even gives half a fuck to OSRS at all

RS3 isn't really that bad, but it does have a terrible image

While OSRS on the other hand is seen as the bastion of community driven MMO and gives jagex an image of listening to their players, yadda yadda

That's why they might turn back on this decision, and the only reason why, because otherwise they wouldn't allow it at all

[cursive gale]

yeah people cant forget that the people who tanked rs3 are there waiting to drop those decisions on osrs too

the community is the only thing that keeps them honest

the game exists because they made enough bad decisions

to cause a split that large

like

[fiery topaz]

Official HD could be a talking / selling point to attract players as well. By the community beating them to the punch it kinda reduces that.

[cursive gale]

imagine upsetting people who put in hundreds to thousands of hours progressing their character enough that they would rather revert to a version of the game thats 6 years older

and start over

thats crazy to think about

[fiery topaz]

Why they decided to "start" now is beyond me though

[cursive gale]

especially when you realize they ended up out numbering the people who stuck with the old game

[sacred spindle]

I'm sure jagex are aware of that, it's just that they have so much more on their plate right now that HD was reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally like a thing they were considering maybe years down the line, trust me that was nowhere near their priorities

[fiery topaz]

Absolutely

[sacred spindle]

IDK man I've been ranting a lot but I just hope HD gets approved I think at this point its all said and done

[fiery topaz]

Same. I started playing like right before HD so that's what I remember the most.

[sacred spindle]

I think part of it is Jagex is considering the possibility of it being released regardless

Like leaked or whatever, and it would look even worse for them

They wouldn't be able to ban runelite users, and it would be a second PR nightmare

I'm not aware of how this relates directly to runelite and I'm not trying to imply anything, but I think that at the moment 117 released his code for review and etc, several people had access to it, and there would be plausible deniability for everyone involved if it eventually got leaked

[eager river]

They missed their boat to ban runelite

They missed their boat to ban 3rd party clients

[urban egret]

in the event of a leak, they'd blame the creator 100% and sue for failure to follow the C&D order, once they sent that out, he became liable for making sure it was not out there for anyone to leak. Jagex themselves probably decided to attempt to shut it down now, because if it gets released, and then they release theirs at a later time it'll look bad when they tell everyone else to C&D...so its a logical move to terminate it now so that IF/WHEN they release theirs...its contained already...but backlash from the community has shown great things...if we can get the community to agree more often, it'd be nice

[eager river]

They missed their boat to tell 117 to stop his project

[waxen creek]

They didn't miss the boat to ban 3pc, it will be banned at some point

[urban egret]

i expect within 6months they'll enforce the move to steam client and make 3pc bannable offense.

[rich hound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkeP7dLkh04 i love that none runescape youtubers are talking about it

[urban egret]

though idk if they ever banned swiftkit back in the day....which its pre much the same thing

[waxen creek]

I don't know if they necessarily need to make it a bannable offense. As it stands now they are keeping c++ only features out of the java client, that includes CS2 instructions. At some point java client might fall so behind that you'd need to edit it significantly to get a playable game.

[somber aspen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/pk99rz/osrs_drama_calendar_september_2021_3rd_party_osrs/ drama calendar contains a hd picture of the hd riot :d

[sacred spindle]

Several runescape youtubers are talking about it. I've seen at least 7 videos about it. Not people participating in DMM but that's expected, all of them are using "$32.000 DMM" on their titles which I believe is something jagex asked them or recommended them doing

But other than that there are a lot of videos talking about it

[rich hound]

"3rd party OSRS HD blocked, Jagex will spend 2000 hours making their own" i just love how this reads like a news paper title

[urban egret]

them using the DMM in the title is to get views most likely.

[sacred spindle]

It could be, but all their titles are so similar that it made me question it. I don't think the algorithm is picking up $32.000 DMM mode.

[waxen creek]

I don't buy the rs3 graphics things, the gameplay for both is so very different. I personally think rs3 is the superior game in many aspects 😄

[fiery topaz]

I think it was a really long time ago no? Or something related to it

[urban egret]

love to see the drama calendar still going

idk i stopped playing rs2 in february 2012 last i knew it was still good then, nowdays you can't play rs3 on anything but jagex approved i believe.

[waxen creek]

Tbf rs3's QOL is significantly higher

you don't need much more than they give you

searchable settings interface would be nice

[zealous crest]

I hate the RS3 graphics makes me think of WOW with the ridiculous armour that is way to thick to even be wearable, and creepy proportions.

[boreal lotus]

Any fellas know if there is a plugin that makes it so you can left click 'empty' on fish barrel in the deposit box?

[true quiver]

how do you make it so when you hover over an item with your cursor, it shows the price and ha price?

[sacred spindle]

Is there a plugin to rebind a key to LMB?

[grave valley]

windows mousekey or if you have a keyboard like razor and others they like you change theres also a program for it on google @sacred spindle

[sacred spindle]

Would ahk for it be fine?

[versed scaffold]

yes

[sacred spindle]

Thanks, saw u could rebind fn keys w a plugin just not this

[autumn agate]

just curious what is the latest news?

[ebon needle]

there is no further developments i dont think

[autumn agate]

did jagex reply

what happened after they announced it

it made the top post of all time on reddit

[ebon needle]

oh

[autumn agate]

so funny

12 hours after posting

[ebon needle]

jagex did reply to the oringnal post

[autumn agate]

they cant possibly ignore this

whatd they say?

[unreal fable]

Ongoing discussions still between rs117 / adam and the osrs team

[ebon needle]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/third-party-hd-clients-statement-update?oldschool=1#_ga=2.116555846.1941510774.1631017644-2009841363.1628762626

[autumn agate]

honestly people who dont even care about HD have joined in like myself at this stage

cos its just funny

😂

[sacred spindle]

Its like they dont realize how old their game is.. Like, I have VERY fond memories of it, but in todays world it "should" die.. but it hasnt. That is special. How do you foster that to give it more longevity? Let your community mod and be a part of it.

They should have offered Runelite HD makers a damn job and publicized it

[sacred spindle]

They better approve it 😄

and play nice

[scarlet quail]

https://tenor.com/view/remember-remember-v-for-vendetta-happy-guy-fawkes-day-the5th-of-november-gif-12829141

[worldly spire]

Bpaptu

[pallid juniper]

When u guys gunna release runelite hd?

[cold cipher]

Surely just release the hd plugin without permission, what's Jagex gonna do, ban runelite?

[ebon needle]

its not up to Runelite or 117, its up to OSRS team allowing it to go ahead. so we are waiting on jagex really @pallid juniper

[pallid juniper]

Lets hope they allow it today and release it today 😄 can't wait more tbh

[cursive gale]

has anyone on runelite's side commented on how long it would take to launch it if it were approved?

[ebon needle]

immediately

[frank mirage]

@somber aspen said they could make a special case to update it as soon as it gets the green light from Jamflex

[cursive gale]

ya hopefully everything goes okay

[rain bear]

Do you guys know the chances of jagex allowing it?

[cursive gale]

considering they're backtracking from a definite no i'd say the chances are very high

[inland shadow]

50/50, either they do or they don't

[cursive gale]

they're just going to make some type of demand on how/when/how long

otherwise we'd already be playing probably

[rain bear]

I really hope they pass it no issue. It sounds interesting

[ebon needle]

i say 90%, thats me being optimistic

[rain bear]

We can only hope right now

[cursive gale]

if they're very lucky

the discussions could just be about having better channels of communication/oversight

since im sure they were ready to leave work yesterday

[ebon needle]

UK its early morning, im sure there will be info at Q&A

thats in approx 11hrs

[worn timber]

glad im not the jmods doing the Q&A lmao

[ebon needle]

ill pre type my riot messages

[cursive gale]

i think they'll get off pretty easy

unless an executive shows up on stream

then all bets are off

[ebon needle]

wouldnt be surprised if they cancel it tho

could see it happening that way

[sacred spindle]

This joke always gets me

Just a complete bastardization of statistics lmao i think I see that in corner gas first

[ebon needle]

10hrs from now

[cursive gale]

honestly i wouldn't be too surprised

if they used the stream to announce that runelite hd is allowed

i'd probably consider just not having the Q&A if they can't begin with that though

[sacred spindle]

i hope they do the Q&A today

[stark oasis]

any reason custom emojis aren't allowed on this server, but are on the official osrs disc?

[tiny river]

[quick folio]

You can use them if you are a patreon/server booster here.

[stark oasis]

ah

[stark oasis]

[civic ether]

@quick folio

Is players indicators deleted???

[quick folio]

No its still there, and please dont post this in 3 channels 😒

[civic ether]

Sorry

[crisp glade]

any eta on HD?

[quick folio]

!hd

[indigo kiln]

Jagex's most recent update regarding HD clients (as of September 8): https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/third-party-hd-clients-statement-update?oldschool=1

[quick folio]

we know as much as you do

[crisp glade]

painful

[ebon brook]

hopefully we get a release today or is that to optimistic?

[raven rivet]

probably too optimisitic

[ebon brook]

shame

[wanton sail]

I hope they announce that it's allowed at the Q&A, can't wait for HD

[ebon brook]

when is q&a?

[raven rivet]

probably 5pm BST

like usual

[tiny river]

today?

[raven rivet]

and I don't think they'll announce it on the Q&A

given it's really not the JMods who decide this stuff

[restive solstice]

I have a strong suspicion jagex will request the work to be dumbed down a bit

[raven rivet]

probably not
I'd imagine they want to actually see what it does, and to make sure it's following the design philosophy they want

having a popular plugin that goes against what they want to do eventually isn't a good idea

and until now they probably don't know what the plugin actually does feature wise

(and tbh, only 117 and Adam would really know what the plugin does feature wise anyway)

[boreal elk]

I do look forward to Jagex's own HD... hopefully they make it very customizable from super potato to super high end.. (like the low quality mode in runelite, to normal osrs, to 117's HD)
I can't imagine it'd take them that long to make either?

[raven rivet]

that would take a lot longer

[boreal elk]

I just hope they can share resources with rs3.. they got plenty graphics programmers that worked on NXT client.. which uses same renderer, so experience wise they got the brains.. 🤔

[oblique sun]

tbh it’d be neat if they updated the rendering to something more modern

[novel socket]

In all honesty, their best option, to get something done quickly, is to see what 117 has done, see how it could be implemented, by them, with any modifications they want done - get it done in their own time, using what 117 has already created as a base

[oblique sun]

lod etc would be possible eventually

[quick folio]

rtx runescape

[boreal elk]

the idea of lods on osrs models kinda makes me chuckle

[livid mantle]

Anyone know if 117scape has day n night cycle

[boreal elk]

I don't believe so

least not demonstrated in any of his images

[quick folio]

based on the screenshots my guess is no

[split valley]

jagex hd looks so poop

[raven rivet]

Jagex HD doesn't exist

[quick folio]

jagex hd was a mockup

in very early exploration stage, so you cant really compare the 2

[split valley]

it looks like what the vast majority of new content looks like

[boreal elk]

I'm a bit confused why they showed the blender renders tbh... if anything why didn't they use rs3 as a testbed :p

[warm nacelle]

didnt they say they have been working on it for like a year?

[quick folio]

they said they started exploring it at the start of the year

[split valley]

they threw it together to be able to excuse their response probably

[cursive gale]

It just seems like a big platform to walk back their mistake more or less for points with the community

[raven rivet]

bodging an engine to work with OSRS models is more difficult than using a rendering program

[cursive gale]

That would be the reason to do it there

They're just on there to say whatever jagex wants to begin with

[boreal elk]

surely they can just export the osrs models, upscaled to format from maya/max ?

[warm nacelle]

so 9 months and still in "exploring" stage with only blender renders to show

hmmm

[oblique sun]

we already have model exporter

[raven rivet]

it's about literally everything else in the engine

bodging the engine is a lot more difficult than just setting everything right in a renderer program

[boreal elk]

hmm sure, i just dont see how they'd have to bodge anything. it's a model like any other they have.. if they do any cleanup in their maya like upscaling to rs3 model scale..? then it'd just go into their art pipeline as normal?

[raven rivet]

and the lighting effects?

[boreal elk]

obviously idk what their workflow is, and what it'd look like

[quick folio]

also because of the grid system they use(explained in last monday's stream, definitely worth watching)

[boreal elk]

rs3 is quite flexible no? i suppose it could look really odd

[raven rivet]

and all the other little things that RS3 has that the OSRS mockup wouldn't have wanted, and vice versa

RS3 is RuneScape; it's not flexible lol

[quick folio]

the stuff would look microscopic in rs3

[split valley]

is the steam client also a rewritten game engine?

[oblique sun]

there’s also no z buffering in osrs

[boreal elk]

hehe, yeah fair, I just know rs3 lets you dial things down quite heavily

[boreal elk]

steam client is the c++ one, so yeah, completely different from java one
I believe it's using the same base as the rs3 NXT client? so same rendering framework/libraries I guess

[wheat vapor]

lately with the lightmap changes, and tests theyve shown for the character rework, it looks more flexible than before to me

[raven rivet]

for RS3 work, sure

[split valley]

i think osrs devs suck

[boreal elk]

:/ rude

[split valley]

its facts though

[wheat vapor]

osrs just doesnt have much technical and engine staff

[boreal elk]

how many graphics guys does the osrs team have? is it just mod nin?

[split valley]

basically every major content update people wanted was locked away with "engine work"

[raven rivet]

I'd like to see you try working on an outdated engine from 2004

[sinful shore]

"graphics guys" 😄

[split valley]

yeah ill be real i probably wont get very far

but then again

i dont get paid to do that

and i havent had 7-8 years to try rectify that

[boreal elk]

yeah, the tech debt on mmorpg's is huge.. I believe from the rs3 stream they're finally deprecating some of their old animation workflow in favour of animating in maya

i can only imagine the struggles they have making content

[raven rivet]

Jagex have a lot of weird stuff in the engines

[split valley]

and

like i said

the devs suck

look at what people who arent getting paid to do this shit do

infinitely better work than they do, objectively

[quick folio]

and "fixing" 1 thing can cause the game to slightly change, and we all know how the community gets when something changes

[raven rivet]

I like how you say that not knowing the amount of extra effort that goes into professional game dev

[split valley]

i understand the amount of extra effort

but this isnt just a passion project for them

[quick folio]

just drag and drop the osrs project into the rs3 engine!

[split valley]

its their jobs

[wheat vapor]

they're setting everything ready to be modernized with the character rework. gonna take a huge time still until they update the entire animation system

[split valley]

its what they get paid to do a good job at

[raven rivet]

we can bodge shit because we don't have proper QA requirements
because we don't get paid
because what we do probably won't last forever
because there are lower expectations for us
because we can't break the game

[split valley]

like i said

they are a company

they get paid to do this

[raven rivet]

they get paid to do it right
and there's more than just the devs

like I mentioned, QA testing

[split valley]

yes this is exactly what i mean

[raven rivet]

proper design work

[split valley]

a whole team of people dedicated to updating this game and doing it right

[raven rivet]

and more things going on than you can possibly think of

[split valley]

and then someone who isnt even employed by them comes along and does an infinitely better job

[raven rivet]

I feel like you aren't listening to half the stuff I'm saying here

[split valley]

no i understand

[quick folio]

and they have done a great job at it so far, imagine porting the entire game to mobile and have it work the same as on pc. its an insane amount of work

[split valley]

with being a professional games studio

it comes with a lot more responsibility

but its time to stop defending them to be honest, it's been 8 years and it still feels like theyre just getting a feel for the game with every update

[quick folio]

also previously HD wouldnt have been possible at all without us being without content for a very long time

[split valley]

its taken them 8 years to rewrite the client

they should have done that years ago

[raven rivet]

almost like it's an engine from 2004 with a million bodges

[quick folio]

years ago osrs didnt have the playerbase for that to be worth it

[raven rivet]

and until the past few years they've barely had a team large enough to do that + content

[split valley]

it's been carrying runescape as a brand for a long time

[raven rivet]

you seem to forget that 8 years ago, they didn't have mapping tools

[split valley]

maybe not entiely financially

im not just criticising devs but the management in general

its been handled very very poorly

i admit

[raven rivet]

mhmm sure

[split valley]

most of the issues i have would probably be not a thing with better management

[raven rivet]

then don't attack the devs

[split valley]

hardly an attack, they arent even here, its just a criticism

and its a genuine one

stop bootlicking

[quick folio]

your criticism is pointed towards the people that have no say in it though

[split valley]

thats another convenient excuse

[raven rivet]

criticism that's also based on a lack of understanding how stuff works, too

[split valley]

no believe me i understand how stuff works

[raven rivet]

you've shown so far that you really don't

[split valley]

i understand there are a lot of technicalities in things like this

a lot of boxes that need to be checked a lot of roles that we dont even know about in the background of making the game work right

but what im saying is

even considering all those factors

and even in some cases DESPITE those factors

for example, you said QA testing earlier, remember the thousands of times they've fucked up?

remember the twisted bush?

remember the bug when people would get max cash randomly dying in the wilderness

[raven rivet]

ah yes, the firsts of their kind in the OS system

[split valley]

those arent small bugs LOL

[quick folio]

every mmo I have played over the years(and there have been quite a few) all suffered from multiple gamebreaking bugs

[split valley]

looks to me they can't even do QA right

[raven rivet]

so two people make mistakes, and a few more don't notice, but no every dev sucks

[alpine talon]

You cant be perfect

everyone make mistakes

[split valley]

so "updating runescape while also doing it right and making sure everything is fixed while also working with an old engine" is a moot point because lets be real they've proven they cant even do that

yes

everyone makes mistakes

but they should be held to a higher standard

like look at the art for fucks sake

it really sucks

[raven rivet]

and all the bugs that have been caught and fixed?

[split valley]

they did a better job in 2006. i know they don't have the same modelling software anymore but still its been 8 years now it shouldnt still look this out of place

[raven rivet]

if the devs are as bad as you say, I should be a trillionaire

art is very much subjective

[split valley]

honestly id say you runelite mod devs deserve more pay than the jagex ones

lol

but thats my biased opinion

y'all do more good for the game

[oblique sun]

all of us who have jobs probably get paid more than jagex :d

[raven rivet]

I don't, but my job is a piece of shit

[split valley]

yep thats true

[oblique sun]

oof

[split valley]

you would be surprised how underpaid jmods are

i was atleast

[oblique sun]

yeah and you also have to live in the uk

[split valley]

i gotta live in the UK anyway :/

[boreal elk]

that's just the games industry man

[split valley]

can you honestly look back at the art they were making for runescape back in 2008 vs now and tell me that even subjectively it looks even remotely as good?

[raven rivet]

2008 was the RSHD era

[split valley]

fuck it

even 2006

[boreal elk]

I'd say art now, that they got their footing, is looking superb

[raven rivet]

the design philosophy for today is good as long as they stay away from purple

the RSHD era was honestly quite a mess

[boreal elk]

4-5 years ago, they were still getting their footing, but now they're smashing it i'd say..

[raven rivet]

though mostly as a product of the content being released

[split valley]

it looks more fitting for runescape though

the art now looks like private server custom content, to me atleast

apart for some specific instances like the grassy parts of fossil island

i should be specific

new assets

just looks super out of place

[raven rivet]

what, like New Hosidius?

Karuulm?

Slepe?

[boreal elk]

the thick walls in zeah did look funky, but I think they've def learned so much! reworks are absolutely smashing it.

[raven rivet]

Zeah was a mistake

one that they're fixing

Hosidius and Shayzien are both great now

[split valley]

they are better i think

but

still seems out of place to me

yes same with the karuulm slayer dungeon

it looks ok but so out of place

cox imo is out of place and dumb ugly art

tob is better but still out of place

out of all of them new shayzien is the only one i really like

[raven rivet]

new Shayzien is exactly what the new design is all about

everything they've made up to that point is following that

[split valley]

wdym?

[raven rivet]

all the design you say you hate, well the ideas used to make them also made Shayzien

[split valley]

when i say really like

i mean

without emphasis on really

i like the architecture

but

they go too high poly on some things

like the foliage for instance

an example of somewhere i think they did a great job on was the wc guild

but thats different since it was a lot of reused textures

[pearl radish]

Jagex is so crazy for not going open source / accepting pull requests from the community

Not just Jagex though, most game companies, like Cyberpunk literally had all the code leaked and lost of passionate developers who wanted to see the game fixed

[split valley]

most jagex employees wouldnt play osrs if it wasnt their job

[pearl radish]

Cause it's basically free software development, you're not forced to accept any pull requests 🤷🏻‍♂️

[split valley]

jagex higher ups greedy

[pearl radish]

Probably just don't understand it even

Like having a closed source code is the only reason their product has value, ignoring licensing, game assets (textures, meshes etc)

[fresh oriole]

do jagex not still have the 2008 HD assets?

[cursive gale]

I don't think they should use them

The point of higher quality graphics is above everything else new players and to be real

Those were terrible

[split valley]

theyre better than anything they would make now

[cursive gale]

You'd want those for nostalgia

No those blender concepts were much better than 08

[split valley]

if they make new graphics and it ends up looking as good as 2008hd graphics i would be so surprised

[tacit dirge]

08hd graphics looks worse than the current graphics we have

[cursive gale]

Yeah they're actually bad

It's what you would think jagex would do if you were a pessimist

[split valley]

google albion online

i just got an ad for it

[cursive gale]

Remember when they turned the d scim into a butter knife

That was 08 lol

[split valley]

it actually looks pretty good

[pearl radish]

It's still dumb though right, as if having a HD client prevents them from making their own

[split valley]

like the graphics

[tacit dirge]

i like how the 117:s graphics uses the current assets but with better lighting etc

[ebon needle]

https://twitter.com/jagexash/status/1435913227288842241?s=21

Mod Ash (@JagexAsh)

@92dmoore Thanks for the suggestion. I'm relieved to see that our managers have been able to seek some kind of deal with the developer after all: https://t.co/bLzj55MCWB

Twitter · Sep 9, 2021, 10:29 AM

[split valley]

new osrs graphics looks like overcomplicated plastic

[pearl radish]

No don't use their graphics!! we want you to use ours!!

[ebon needle]

Ash 'seeking some kind of deal'

5mins ago

[cursive gale]

That says they're seeking one

[ebon needle]

im dislexic

[vocal nimbus]

Would it ever be possible for loot tracker loot to exclude items below a certain threshold, or having the option of choosing which items to log with an interface?

Turning this

Into this would be so much nicer

[pearl radish]

Think they wanted to sell / monetize their own HD client?

Only logical reason for their response I suppose

Why else reject free development for your game

[halcyon sorrel]

Or maybe them being the only provider of HD is their strategy to lure people back to their shitty ass client

[pearl radish]

For no reason at all 🤣

[unreal fable]

@vocal nimbus think you can right click the items to hide some if you like

[median parrot]

Anyone on here know why I can’t get world 539 on my server ?

[vocal nimbus]

Hiding them doesn't unfortunately remove the overall count for items logged, which i'm trying to reduce

[unreal fable]

Gotcha, not too sure in that case :p gl!

[vocal nimbus]

All good, appreciate the input.

[sand wasp]

Its pretty sad to see how much people shit on game dev for what happened ngl

When they are not responsible for how this case was handled

[bright plover]

anyone know how long it typically takes for runelite to update?

[hardy iron]

its out now

[bright plover]

nvm

saw ty lol

[south ice]

They should have written, signed and published a manifesto supporting the community.

[sand wasp]

Nothing is enough to calm reddit's troll tho :/

[south ice]

Don’t reduce this to mere reddit trolls. This is waaaay bigger than just “reddit trolls”.

[sacred spindle]

Hi all! Weird question but here it goes. Im an old man with a big screen , can i get somehow the fixed classic layout but full screen? Right now if i choose resizable it goes full screen but the icons stay small.

[raven rivet]

Stretched Mode

[placid tartan]

I don't think they're allowed to as it would have undermined the orders from Management. They're on the lower structure of the hierarchy sadly.

[sacred spindle]

Thanks Hydrox! Mvp right there

[sand wasp]

Dunno, people posting every Adam's comment in this thread on reddit is à bit exagerated imo

Like people were frustrated, Jagex responded

Now get over it lol

[south ice]

Yeah. That’s not very expedient tbh.

They’re also kind of taking things he says out of context and putting Adam in uncomfortable positions with these posts.

[sand wasp]

Yeah it's annoying for both parties at that point

[sacred spindle]

wish there was this energy to fire the upper management

[quaint wing]

what is the plug in streamers use that flashes red when they get a drop?

[raven rivet]

not a plugin, just a setting of the notifier

RuneLite -> Flash no...

[quaint wing]

thanks

[raven rivet]

and then you configure drop notifications as normal under Ground Items

[broken ginkgo]

I just think it's always funny when a company goes. "Whoops, didn't know you'd get so mad, fine we'll consider it"

Who knows what they're "discussing" at this point

[quaint wing]

I expect there will be some sort of update today or tomorrow

[frigid crow]

Think there’s a good chance they don’t have the q&a today as well

[quaint wing]

the longer they drag it out the more likely they are to lose any new interest in the game from outside players

which wouldnt be smart considering the attention

[frigid crow]

They also need this storm to be over by the dmm final event

[quaint wing]

yup, otherwise twitch would be filled with hd related questions and nothing to do with dmm

imagine all that time dedicated to setting up the finals only to be overshadowed by a community project, not a good look for jagex lmao

[deep ridge]

should stream the dmm final with 117's HD plugin enabled

[quaint wing]

that would be amazing

[south ice]

Brooooooi

Come onnnnnnn

Im dying of thirst

[cursive gale]

they kind of do have an opportunity with all of the controversy they caused

if they can come out with a positive resolution while everyone is still looking that could be a good thing for them

its pretty much that or leave a ton of non rs players looking at them like they're EA

which probably isn't ideal

[astral ledge]

The high definition thirst is killing me

[stone crag]

i just want shadows tbh

[cursive gale]

honestly what i want is to just log on and play with it

i want to see what the performance and everything is like

[stone crag]

yeah

there's gonna be so many issues

[astral ledge]

I doubt they'd release it in a state where there's so many issues

117 has been clear for quite some time that the client performs very well on lower end machines

[cursive gale]

i think its inevitable there will be issues all over because afaik there just hasn't been that many people involved in using it

[stone crag]

sure they would, if they never came across the issues...

[cursive gale]

testing things at scale reveals all kinds of weird stuff you'd never think to test

even if you're doing QA

im sure it works though for the most part

[stone crag]

and all the diff hardware setups, conflicting software...

not saying it's going to be badly made at all, just that there will always be issues with new releases. be it a game, program, whatever

[oblique sun]

can’t wait

[stone crag]

no door kicker plugin when that happens 😦

[quick folio]

sounds like the c++ doesnt have enough features if there is no door kicker

[stone crag]

agreed

[hexed hare]

MMK tried that lmao

[stone crag]

there's no animation normally, right?

[hexed hare]

Theres no animation, correct

[stone crag]

f

rip immersion

[prisma sigil]

Stop helping osrs

[stone crag]

?

[prisma sigil]

capitalism with chineese characteristics

Ever heard of it?

[shadow shuttle]

Is that similar to dn

[cursive gale]

lmao

[harsh moat]

think were hearing word today?

[shadow shuttle]

Today or tomorrow

[prisma sigil]

Look what happend to tesla and uber etc etc

[shadow shuttle]

Believe adam said they are talking today and tomorrow about it

[shadow shuttle]

Tesla stock pumpin

[quick folio]

Whats dn? gets ready for a 👢

[shadow shuttle]

sweats

[prisma sigil]

Not in terms of stock

[oblique sun]

dragon nest

[upper summit]

so is the hd plugin part of runelite client or its via external hub?

[quartz hull]

plugin hub afaik

[hexed hare]

Speaking of, any update on RLHD inclusion atm?

Since jamfl3x update

[broken ginkgo]

In talks

[hexed hare]

Still eh

Probably not til after the weekend then Id wager

[ancient briar]

I'm betting on it being a lot longer than that...

but we can hope

[hexed hare]

You figure itll have to be modified?

[swift plinth]

We demand answers

[prisma sigil]

Stop working the plugin

[ancient briar]

I belive that getting this approved will be a bureaucratic clusterfuck.
It's obvious that Jagex doesn't want this so they probably have some terms and conditions before they greenlight it

[prisma sigil]

Let jagex buy it

Dont help them

Dont make ur opps smarter

Smh

[wet tundra]

Which is what happened when Runelite was threatened to shut down. Took a week though.

[broken ginkgo]

I don't want jagex touching it

[prisma sigil]

They either offer a good contract

Or they can shove their fingers up theirs

Nothing is free

And specialy wid the chineeese

[broken ginkgo]

Any modification would be a downgrade and I don't think 117 scape would like that

[ancient briar]

that's true, hopefully this will be over quickly.
We'll have to wait and see though.

[wet tundra]

I think we get an update by end of day today

Announcing the steps

And we’ll see then

Is it a green light or a week long fight

But Subs should not be renewed until YOU can toggle the plugin

But pls let’s be thankful Adam is so wonderfully transparent with us.

[glad plaza]

Aren't jagex known for making people sign NDAs too? Wouldn't be surprised if they sneak one in somewhere

[ancient briar]

For the moment their damage control seems to work so Jagex probably isn't in a huge rush to make an announcement.

[broken ginkgo]

Where is he mainly posting updates to if any. Twitter? Reddit?

[wet tundra]

Here! With us 🙂

[astral ledge]

tbh we should keep being just as pissed until they release another update

[wet tundra]

Search messages by his name.

[wet tundra]

Adam said conversations last night stopped at like 7-8 PM britain time, so Jagex isn’t really running at an urgent pace. It was urgent when the Subs dropped.

[hexed hare]

I wonder how much it actually dropped by

Hopefully at least 5%

[wet tundra]

The PhantomL0rd HOSTAGE/ DDOS crisis On League of Legends had Riot in the studio til 2 AM btw ^

[raven rivet]

almost like that actively stopped people from playing the game

whereas this was just a riot

[wet tundra]

True different circumstances

But similar community response

Reddit as a base

Etc

[ancient briar]

I mean at this point it isn't really urgent anymore, the storm has mostly stopped.
Obviously they will have to do something in the coming weeks otherwise people will be mad again.

[wet tundra]

And tbh Phantomlord wasnt a ddos

Yes Pumpkin

But tbh if Riots come back to size we may be able to put the pressure on
:—-) the day is still early

[hexed hare]

Are they still running?

[wet tundra]

Reminder: Jagex’s beddy-bye time is in SIX hours

[hexed hare]

I bet riot pays their devs a hell of a lot more if they're willing to stay until 2am

[wet tundra]

As long as you’re a man

LOL

[ebon needle]

Q&A in 2.5hrs

[hexed hare]

Isnt that everywhere

[ebon needle]

get your peeporiots ready

https://tenor.com/view/peepo-peepo-riot-riot-protest-peepo-angry-gif-21768097

[wet tundra]

Time to take back our game

[hexed hare]

No ezl that's entitlement, you're not entitled to anything you pay for remember?

[wet tundra]

:(!!!!

No pay me gay

[hexed hare]

🦀

[broken ginkgo]

A q&a at this point seems like a bad move....but what do I know

[wet tundra]

Questions won’t be live

Lmao

[hexed hare]

Lmao

[wet tundra]

They’ll be like 2 pre picked “plz HD” questions followed by mod deagle

Showing off bad art concepts

❤️

[broken ginkgo]

Ah I see, fair enough

[ebon needle]

i just want to watch the chat riot

[broken ginkgo]

I'll be asleep though so who knows

[ebon needle]

and jagex pretend they dont see

[lavish ridge]

where will the Q&A be shared?

[ebon needle]

Q&A schedule is on there twitch page, it is scheduled 2.5hrs from now

[hexed hare]

Inb4 emote or sub onky chat

Onky

Whatever cba edit

[ebon needle]

thats ok i sub 2 a lot of channels with rage emotes

[broken ginkgo]

I've got plenty as well

[raven rivet]

tbh, yeah put the chat is sub or emote mode

thing is always a shitshow no matter what's happening

[ebon needle]

i just love how they pretend not to see

i find it funny

[raven rivet]

they don't, they just ignore the mass amount of shit

[broken ginkgo]

They have to, otherwise it wouldn't move on

[raven rivet]

no one cares about your crap chat message that's just there to incite

[broken ginkgo]

Oof

[raven rivet]

and the mods have called out people making direct attacks at other mods

no twitch chat on the Q&As is a good thing imo

hell, it's permanently minimised for me

only rarely do I miss out on other mods having a joke in it

[ebon needle]

my chat messages crap Sadge

[raven rivet]

you are but one person in a sea of shit

[undone kernel]

I wouldn't be surprsed if Twitch Chat was set in emotes only or something

[ebon needle]

so, am i being put down? or?

it's ok, im not worthy of hydrox anyways 😮

[south ice]

Bro, there is no justification for threats and what not. But they are not in the position to use that to bend the narrative their way either. The majority of the protesters are not threatening whatsoever.

[ebon needle]

where was threats o.o

[tranquil hatch]

that's why jagex has a tank at hq

[karmic owl]

No turret though

[ebon needle]

wasnt the tank removed

lol

[south ice]

Aaaaargh

[south dune]

Any news on the situation? Any talks since yesterdays?

[ebon needle]

not yet

[pale harness]

Anyone else religiously refreshing /r/2007scape for news? Lmao

[stone imp]

I’m refreshing for drama more than for news.

[half estuary]

cant imagine the catastrophe that it would cause if they doubled down and didnt allow osHD