toki Tawi - ไทย

[plain dragon]

<@&877331878250692680>

[rigid ermine]

awawawwaawaawaaawawwawa

i've been summoned after tenpo mute

[twilit moat]

toki

สวัสดีค่ะ

letter ร
Is it more normal if I pronounce ร as /r/ or /l/?

ปลา
Is it more normal if I pronounce as /plaa/ or /paa/?

หากข้อมูลนี้เกี่ยวข้อง ฉันเป็นฝรั่งหญิง อายุ 46 ปี

[twilit moat]

sina pilin seme?

สบายดีไหม

@rapid matrix

[rigid ermine]

mi pona

[rigid ermine]

well, ล is /l/
so i don't see why ร shouldn't be /r/

also holy shit 46 years old??

[twilit moat]

i heard that many speakers merge the two sounds

[rigid ermine]

in informal speech, yeah

they both become /l/

except in television (andor maybe bangkok (i don't live there for long enough to see if that's the case) )

[twilit moat]

so it depends if i want my accent to sound more formal or informal?

[rigid ermine]

sure?

i default to /l/ because i am physically unable to roll/trill my tongue

[twilit moat]

is this a good minimal pair?
รัก (rak) – to love
ลัก (lak) – to steal

[rigid ermine]

i don't hear ลัก to mean steal alot

that's ขโมย, no?

either way, just like the language that you've made 2 decades ago that's become the 2nd largest conlang in the world

context will fill in the gaps

[twilit moat]

i guess i can use the informal one

is it similar with ปลา ?

[rigid ermine]

no, i don't see why ปลา should be /pa:/ at all

that's removing an entire consonant

[twilit moat]

i thought i heard some people pronounce it this way, but i think i am wrong

ขอบคุณค่ะ

[rigid ermine]

ok this is fucking with me really hard

i'm saying [pa:] into google translate and it's giving me ปลา anyways

anyways, [pa:] can mean ปา which can mean to throw/hurl

[twilit moat]

i found this on reddit

[rigid ermine]

maybe in super rapid speech? i can't be super sure because i'm like (and i like describing myself as) the least thai thai person ever

[rigid ermine]

oh
a classic case of "oh i'm speaking incorrectly but i didn't even know" type of informal speech

if you're a learner whom doesn't have a really good thai accent, i'd err on just saying the consonants as is so you're better understood

[twilit moat]

just in case my vowel or tone is slightly wrong

[rigid ermine]

sure, yeah

[twilit moat]

then the extra consonant can give clarity

[rigid ermine]

mmhm

if you are really keen on wanting to talk informally, then yeah, drop the liquid consonants and pray that they understand you or smth

my thai is like bad i'm not confident in giving any advice at all 😭

[twilit moat]

it's very similar for me and french

it's my first language or ethnic language, but i've been exposed to english as a dominant language quite young

[rigid ermine]

same with me

curse my parents for making me too damn good at english lol

"we're gonna make our son good at english" and now your daughter (has transitioned and) can barely talk to you in thai anymore!!!

not "barely" - i'm exaggerating, but still

[twilit moat]

would be appropriate if i call you น้องสาว or just คุณ?

[rigid ermine]

น้อง is fine

[twilit moat]

pona

[rigid ermine]

น้องสาว is too much "sister/daughter as in actually biologically related"

[twilit moat]

do you know if ข้าวซอย means 'pan pi nasin lili' or 'pan pakala/kipisi'?

[rigid ermine]

(me searching up wtf is ข้าวซอย to remind myself what it is)

oh, northern food

[twilit moat]

a pona

[rigid ermine]

uhhh

whichever ig?

seme li pan pakala

[twilit moat]

ale li pona

[rigid ermine]

pan li pakala anu seme?

pan li pakala la sina ken moku e ona lon nasin seme a

mi ken ala sona a a aa

[twilit moat]

pona! sina sona ala e ale

mi wile tawa กรุงเทพฯ tawa เกาะสมุย

[rigid ermine]

o tawa ma sonpuli
mi lon ma ni 🥺

[twilit moat]

น้องเป็นนักเรียนเหรอคะ?

[rigid ermine]

?

i wasborn/live in chon buri

[twilit moat]

sina jan pi tomo sona, anu seme?

[rigid ermine]

...jan ala
mi sona ala e ni tan seme la sina wile sona e ni?

[twilit moat]

tenpo pini la mi lon ma Sonpuli!!

[rigid ermine]

seme a 😭

ni la tenpo pini la mi ken kama lon poka sina??? 😭

sina lon ma ni la sina toki ala tawa mi la tan seme a 😭

[twilit moat]

tenpo sike nanpa 2011 la mi lon ma Sonpuli

[rigid ermine]

...

i was 5 years old then
still trying to figure out the world around me

[twilit moat]

mi o toki e ijo lili lon toki pi mi tu taso

kin la mi tawa tomo sona ni https://maps.app.goo.gl/SqXghgmyQTmqPChs8

[rigid ermine]

a pona a!

[twilit moat]

ma Sonpuli la mi moku e ไข่ปูเกือกม้า

[rigid ermine]

mi sona ala e ni moku ni li seme taso ona li lukin pona a

[twilit moat]

ona li pona lukin

sina moku e seme lon tenpo mute?

[rigid ermine]

ok unrelated but why the hell does this server keep restoring my o toki pona taso tawa mi role even tho i removed it

[rigid ermine]

mi sona ala
mi moku e moku mute

[twilit moat]

are you able to remove it in the id:customize ?

[rigid ermine]

yeah i did that and server gave it back

i'm saying "server" because i have no idea what's making it do that

[twilit moat]

mi tawa! mi pali e lipu sin.

jan pi ma Tawi o pona!

[rigid ermine]

mi o pona ala

mi o nasa pona a

[celest narwhal]

the loss of /r/ and /l/ in consonant clusters is very normal in informal speech

but i dont think i have seen one with /w/ yet but old peeps usually change /kw/, /kʰw/ to /f/ but i think it doesnt change in newer generation

also i dont think /r/ fully changes to /l/ in informal speech id say it's in between /r/ and /l/ but it does sound very similar to each other

[twilit moat]

thanks!!!

[rigid ermine]

probably cuz w is a semivowel

also that's a massive throwback to when i was really young and i heard my mom say a word with /kʰw/ and i misheard it as /f/

[wintry cipher]

oh this is. a thing

lipu2222 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1303106159166881792 message) ok unrelated but why the hell does this server keep restoring my o toki pona taso tawa mi role even …

1. get archive surfer role in id:customize
2. go to #poki and remove the role there
3. now you are free and can remove archive surfer

[rigid ermine]

yayyy

[wintry cipher]

you might want to remove all your selections from poki in case this comes up again

lipu2222 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1303106159166881792 message) yayyy

[rigid ermine]

mmhm

[twilit moat]

ยอดเยี่ยม!

[compact briar]

why did this only exist now

[wintry cipher]

because someone requested it

[twilit moat]

sina ale li lon https://ma.pona.la/ anu seme

[wintry cipher]

mi lon a! taso mi sona ala e linja ilo sin ni...

[open oar]

A thick "l" disappears in some ears. Like l in Brasil by Brazilians "Brazio" in my ears. Thai 🍌 กล้วย. L disappears in my ears "gwuay".

[rapid matrix]

ว้าว!! ต๊อกกี้!! toki!!

[rapid matrix]

mi pilin pona
ฉันสบายดีมาก

[rapid matrix]

taso mi jo e sona ante lon toki pi kalama ante.
mi jo e tomo tawa e ni: mi lon ma Surin (ma insa ma Tawi) poka ma Kambuja.
ona lon ma mi ken kalama e ร (รอ เรือ) pi toki ma Tawi lon nasin pona.
taso jan mute li jo e kalama pi toki Kambuja lili.
mi toki e ร (รอ เรือ) lon nasin pona, ni li nasa ala tawa mi lon tenpo ali.

[rigid ermine]

actually i now completely retract this statement

multiple times when my dad was talking about ปลากระป๋อง, it almost always becomes ปากะป๋อง

both the l and the r are gone

[rapid matrix]

kama ante pi kalama toki Tawi li kama tan toki wawa mute anu toki lon nasin ante.

ni li pali e toki pi ken sona ala lon tenpo ali. toki pona li lon tan nasin pona.

ona li jo ala e kalama ante lon toki tawa mute.

kalama li wawa lili li ken ala ken suli.

[twilit moat]

ใครอยากช่วยฉันแปลคำอธิบายสัตว์ในตำนานนี้เป็นภาษาโทกิโปนะไหม? https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ม้านิลมังกร
หากสนใจเพิ่มกระรอกได้.

(โตกีโปนา)

[rigid ermine]

should i feel bad that jan sonja is able to type in thai like alot more than i can

😭

[twilit moat]

i resort to copy-pasting

i need to customize thai input in AHK on windows

[rigid ermine]

...right

[rigid ermine]

(outside of television and high hierarchy) it's really mysterious and interesting to see [r] getting... less trilly

and more tappy

possibly even becoming more like [l]

dare i say it may even be a little approxing

thai's pronunciation of ร is at an all time worst horrible crisis and i don't know what to think of that

it's very much [r] in the news
but then in speech it's [ɾ~ɹ~ɺ~l]

i'm watching inside out 2 in thai and ร really fucking is just [r~ɾ~ɹ~ɺ~l]

[twilit moat]

rrrr

😴

[wintry cipher]

soweli suwi Sonja

[twilit moat]

sina kin li wile ala wile kama sona e toki Tawi?

[wintry cipher]

lili la wile...mi wile kama sona e toki ale a...

taso lon la mi kama ala kama sona e toki Tawi

mi lon tomo ni tawa pana sona ni taso

pan Mapuju ↩️

[Reply to:](#1303106159166881792 message) oh this is. a thing 📎

mi weka ala tan seme? mi sona ala

[compact briar]

i am going to take ต็อกกี้ out of context (iykyk)

[compact briar]

i dont think i have rhotacism but i cant properly do yhe [r] i always just do the [ɹ]

[rigid ermine]

i have the same problem; [r] is impossible for me

[compact briar]

i took ต็อกกี้ out of context

[rapid matrix]

ต๊อกกี้ ยาน อะเล

[twilit moat]

toki, jan ale o

[compact briar]

i think โตกิ works better (and ต็อกกี้ will sound weird when out of context)

[rapid matrix]

I think ต๊อกกี้ sounds closer, but โทกิ is written as a letter
โท = to กิ = ki In accordance with alphabet

[compact briar]

the pronounciation is [to.ki] unaspirated unvoiced coronal plosive, back-mid vowel, unaspirated unvoiced dorsal plosive, front-close vowel

and pretty sure [t] is ต and [k] is ก. also in the wikipedia article for toki pona is โตกิโปนา

[rapid matrix]

Okay, I was wrong. I just said it in my own pronunciation.

However, your information is correct according to the references to Wikipedia.

[twilit moat]

pilin mi la ni ale li <t>

[rapid matrix]

right? 😀

[compact briar]

👍 _ _

[rapid matrix]

ต๊อกกี้ and โทกิ
can you feeling ?

[rapid matrix]

@compact briar

[rigid ermine]

i hear "tokki" and "toki"

here's my input

i've barely told my mom about toki pona but she always says [t] with no aspiration

plus no aspiration imo is closer to actual toki pona anyways

[rigid ermine]

but as she has said

[rigid ermine]

yes it's [to.ki] but you can say [ɖoʊ.qɨ] and i would accept that

[compact briar]

a

ok

[river gulch]

ตอกิ า

[twilit moat]

nimi Tawi anu nimi Ta li pona nanpa wan tawa sina? @everyone

[compact briar]

was that a ping failure

[twilit moat]

ni li pona ala pona?

[rigid ermine]

why does it start with "na" and not "ma"?

[twilit moat]

i probably made a mistake!

[rigid ermine]

meow

it's almost like you forgot m existed in toki pona

[twilit moat]

i wrote a script to make it easier but there is an error in the nasals

[rigid ermine]

oh

kunte (mawanakonamonlatanakosinmawintalajutajamawasiloponopalalatatanipulilomutonlataniwemawasatanamonpimanawatansasisakatasijawisanukanpasi) imo

[twilit moat]

any other error i made besides m/n?

[neon grail]

@serene schooner

[serene schooner]

สวัสดีคับ

[neon grail]

ni li toki e seme

poba

[serene schooner]

mi wile toki e jan ale

lon ma ni. jan tawi mute seme.

[compact briar]

i cant remember the full name of bangkok

(i live there)

[tidal flame]

me neither

(i dont live there)

[harsh canopy]

toki a. jan Tawi pi toki pona lon ni anu seme?

[rapid matrix]

mi lon ni

[harsh canopy]

pona a

sina sona toki pona tan seme?

[rapid matrix]

mi e sona toki pona tan ma pi linja sona (?)(internet)

[neon grail]

tan ilo?

[rapid matrix]

o pona
mi sona e toki pona tan ma sona wawa

[compact briar]

linluwi?

[rigid ermine]

mi kin li lon

pilin musi sona mi tawa toki pona li lili mute
tan ni la mi toki pi mute ala lon ma ni

[twilit moat]

ma li tawa.

[rigid ermine]

tawa seme a?!!!!?!?!

[twilit moat]

@everyone o!
nimi seme li pona?

• 🍍 toki Tawi en ma Tawi
• 🎲 toki Ta en ma Ta
• 🦄 toki Taje~~/Taja/Taju/Tajo~~ en ma Taje~~/Taja/Taju/Tajo~~
• 🦒 ijo ante!

<@&877331878250692680>

[compact briar]

Tawi or Taje is good

[twilit moat]

pona! react with emojis

[compact briar]

(also not great timing its 1:30am here, dont ask why im up)

[twilit moat]

sina lon ma tomo seme? คุณอยู่เมืองไหน?

[compact briar]

Pathum Thani

[twilit moat]

a pona mute!!!

[rigid ermine]

not just pinging everyone, but pinging jan tawi ale when it's 1:30 am

"tawi" li pona

[twilit moat]

ale li pona! sina ken lukin lon tenpo suno kama!!

ไม่เป็นไร พรุ่งนี้ค่อยอ่านก็ได้!

[paper sedge]

Most people are already familiar with "Tawi"

[twilit moat]

pona

[random sky]

awa!! :3
nimi Taje li pona mute!!!!
mute la kalama ni li sama kalama ไทย!!!
taso kin la nimi Tawi li pona
kamala ni li suwi tawa mi!

[compact briar]

writing tawa.wile. in sitelen pona sounds better than tawa.jelo.

[little flicker]

สวัสดีชาว โตกิโปนา

[compact briar]

มีไออาแอล

[compact briar]

ณาษะมูเธะ

[little flicker]

ณาภ์ศฬ์มูผ์เตะฅ์

[inland vessel]

toki jan ale o

[trail vortex]

toki a jan ale o mi jan Kekan San

[paper sedge]

พระโจาะนา ภาษา ภาษาการณ์? prajaona bhasha bashakarlshuh
||พูดภาษาพระเจ้า?||

สถานศึกษา stchanjshüksha
||โรงเรียน||

โฏฆี โปณา โอ สาธุ

[crude crater]

<@&877331878250692680> ona li pana ala pana pona e sona?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi18qbIvZls

[glad rampart]

seme?

[rigid ermine]

mi lukin

the easier language in the world toki pona

this is just not true toki pona is not easy it's just small

for english speaking people, scots is easier than toki pona

[rigid ermine]

mi pilin e ni sitelen ni li pana e sona open pi toki pona taso ona li pana ala e sona pi toki pona tawa sina

[crude crater]

sitelen la ona li toki e nanpa wan
nanpa ante li ken kama

[rigid ermine]

la sitelen ni li wile pana e sona pi toki pona la ona li pana pi ike lili

[rigid ermine]

a lon a

ona li ken toki pona taso mi sona ala e ni jan ni li ken pana sona

musi la toki kalama ona li sama lili mi

a a a

[crude crater]

musi

[rigid ermine]

mi en ona li jan tawi

ona li awen pali e sitelen ni lon toki tawi la mi wile sona e tenpo kama pali ona

[crude crater]

-remindme 30d sin li lon ala lon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXH2EulywL-QGHjemce7BWQ?

[steel arrow]

Set a reminder in 4 weeks and 2 days from now (<t:1775146508:f>)
View reminders with the reminders command

[paper sedge]

ni li mi

lon

mi awen pali e sitelen sona

[crude crater]

a!

[paper sedge]

tenpo ni la mi jo e lipu utala mute lon tomo sona

[crude crater]

o wawa lon utala

[paper sedge]

It was 2 years ago. toki pona has been perceived as being easy and I just started learning it. It was like when Esperanto was new and they say it's the easiest language. The same thing with toki pona I probably would have to remake that video at some point.

[paper sedge]

It took me 3-4 years to learn toki pona to reach fluency(be able to understand anything with little to no visual aid and able to describe anything) still less time than other languages. Vocabulary and grammar are the easy parts but the difficult parts are communication and understanding others require experience rather than just knowing words or grammar alone. Just like with any other languages. But I can see toki pona being difficult because the language rely a lot on context which not everyone is accustomed to especially those with neural divergent can find understanding context difficult while others may find this aspect very natural.

I love the concept of toki pona as simplifying thoughts because I have difficult time understanding people in real life when they talk using big words. toki pona is even still more practical than aUI and actually sound like a human language (no offense to aUI of course) LOL

[desert vigil]

o toki taso kepeken toki Tawi anu toki pona

[paper sedge]

mi ike. mi pona ala lon toki Tawi. taso mi ken pana e sitelen lon ilo.
mi toki e ni:
ตอนนั้น 2 ปีที่แล้วมีแต่คนบอกว่านี่คือภาษาที่ง่ายที่สุด เพราะยังไม่ค่อยมีคนรู้จักมากแต่คำอธิบายก็ไม่ค่อยตรงซักเท่าไหร่สิ่งที่คิดว่าง่ายมันขึ้นอยู่แล้วแต่คนด้วย เหมือนกับตอนภาษา Esperanto มาใหม่ๆก็ง่ายๆ ผมคงต้องทำวิดีโอใหม่ซักครั้งนึง

ผมใช้เวลาประมาณ 3 ถึง 4 ปี เรียนภาษา toki pona ถึงระดับที่พูดคล่อง(เข้าใจอะไรได้ง่ายไม่ต้องมีภาพประกอบ และอธิบายได้) มันยังใช้เวลาน้อยกว่าภาษาอื่นแหละ ทุกภาษาบนโลกมีความยาก toki pona ก็เหมือนกันแต่ก็ยังง่ายกว่าภาษาอื่นๆ ผมว่า ไวยากรณ์ กับ คำศัพท์ คือส่วนที่ง่ายที่สุดแต่การที่จะเข้าใจคนอื่นต้องมี ประสบการณ์ ด้วย รู้แค่คำกับไวยากรณ์อย่างเดียวไม่ได้ แต่ผมเห็นส่วนหนึ่งของ toki pona ที่น่าจะยากสำหรับใครบางคนเพราะใช้บริบทมาก และสำหรับบางคนที่มี การเบนออกทางประสาทความคิด(Neurodivergent) คนที่เป็น Autistics บางประเภท มีความลำบากในการเข้าใจบริบท แต่สำหรับบางคนก็อาจเป็นเรื่องที่ธรรมชาติมาก

ผมชอบแนวคิดการออกแบบของ toki pona ในการที่ทำให้ความคิดลดความซับซ้อน อาจเป็นเพราะผมเข้าใจอะไรยากอยู่แล้วในชีวิตจริงเวลาคนพูดใช้คำซับซ้อน toki pona ค่อนข้างที่จะมีความน่าใช้กว่าภาษา aUI เพราะ aUI มันฟังแล้วไม่เหมือนภาษาคน แต่ภาษา toki pona ดูเหมือภาษาคนมากกว่า (ไม่ได้จะว่าภาษา aUI นะ) 555+

[rigid ermine]

tawa sina taso anu lon ma ni?

a, sina lawa

[steel arrow]

Reminder for @crude crater

Reminder from YAGPDB

sin li lon ala lon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXH2EulywL-QGHjemce7BWQ?