poki Lapo: Toki Pona library

[carmine quarry]

whether we like it or not our site has to work on windows :p

[jagged burrow]

(looks up media queries to detect user's OS)

[nova gale]

ijo o could you test it on chrome or smth

[jagged burrow]

i don't really wanna install chrome :S

but if i must

[carmine quarry]

chromium of course will do

[nova gale]

or like edge

[nova gale]

i mean you can kinda use it

[jagged burrow]

same thing in ungoogled chromium

[nova gale]

could you try switching between os dark and light modes or smth

also what if we just banned all windows users

[left gorge]

installing linux vm just to access lipu pona

[heady vigil]

true

[jagged burrow]

does not make a difference in either firefox or chromium

[nova gale]

no just nuke the microsoft we-creep-at-you-behind-your-windows

[carmine quarry]

im too sleepy to help but im sure theres a good solution that doesnt break anywhere

[vague coral]

mi pimeja e walo kepeken ilo [Dark Reader] la ale li pona · lukin mi la ona li ni ↓

select option {
  background-color: mu;
}

[vague coral]

kalama namako wan pi sona ala nimi :3 https://archive.org/details/PichismoKasiSuliLonTomoLapeMi

-a toki li lon ni https://archive.org/details/PichismoKakaka

[sleek galleon]

can i sponsor any coder to prioritize localization in TOK? so translators can easily edit yaml or json files of strings from EN to TOK?

tenpo mute la jan pi toki Epelanto li toki ike e ni tawa mi: "o lukin. kulupu pi toki pona li kepeken toki Inli. toki pona li pona tawa musi taso, li ike tawa pali suli."

@carmine quarry li wile pana e nimi pi jan sona pona pi toki ilo la, mi ken pana e mani lili tawa jan pali ni.

[vague coral]

ken la tan pi toki [Juwese] open li ni → jan mute kulupu li open e kama sona lon tenpo poka li wawa ala · ona li wile kama sona tan lipu la ilo ni o pona tawa ona
-# taaaso jan pali ale kin pi mi ala li toki [Juwese] la,,

[nova gale]

i can take on this. shouldn't be too hard as Astro supports i18n pretty well afaik and i have previously translated (non astro) websites with it between Finnish and English. mostly just the burden of replacing every single ui string with an i18n code.

translating the entry descriptions etc. would be way harder tho, as many of them are just copied from the sources (e.g. youtube descriptions)

[heady vigil]

descriptions and notes etc is less important imo

[nova gale]

sure

[heady vigil]

is this the same Mika

2009-2011 and 2024 is a big jump

[vague coral]

tenpo pi wile sisanpikuweson li kamaaa · wawaaa

[nova gale]

we could slide into ona's dms

[heady vigil]

maybe

what's their at

[vague coral]

jan Mika nanpa tu li kama lon ma lon sike nanpa MAT anu MATW la,,

[snow pagoda]

toki a! just want to let you know that both Sekos on this site are me, waso Seko

[hasty quarry]

feature request for lipu: a way to browse multiple translations of same source

well first we should have some indication of the original media (eg display the original attribute)

[hasty quarry]

ok hav coded this, will double check and send a PR later

astro is rlly nice to work w. or maybe the way u'v layed it out... i no longer despise web frameworks

[heady vigil]

whoa

[boreal meadow]

Are there any two such works in the collection?

[vague coral]

https://lipu.pona.la/2021/09/meli-sike/
https://lipu.pona.la/2025/03/meli-sike/

[hasty quarry]

yeah, theres not many tho.
2 translations/revisions of Tower of Babel: https://lipu.pona.la/2003/05/ma-tomo-pape and https://lipu.pona.la/2005/07/ma-tomo-pape/
2 translations of The ones who walk from Omelas: https://lipu.pona.la/2022/10/jan-lawa-oliki/ and https://lipu.pona.la/2020/12/jan-pi-weka-tan-ma-tomo-omela
2 sections of 弟子规: https://lipu.pona.la/2025/05/nasin-anpa-kon-lipu and https://lipu.pona.la/2025/05/nasin-anpa-o-olin-tawa-mama-lon-tomo
2 translations of An die Freude: https://lipu.pona.la/2025/03/kalama-pi-kulupu-elopa and https://lipu.pona.la/2021/12/pona-o
2 revisions of i lik the bred: https://lipu.pona.la/2020/08/moku-e-pan and https://lipu.pona.la/2020/08/mi-uta-e-pan
2 translations of ローリンガール (Rolling Girl) as above
2 translations of 強風オールバック: https://lipu.pona.la/2023/09/kon-wawa-la-linja-weka and https://lipu.pona.la/2023/07/kon-wawa-li-tawa-monsi-e-linja-mi

& i suspect there are some more where people have given slightly different names, or havent tagged the original, like with https://lipu.pona.la/2023/11/toki-pona-tawa-sewi/ and https://lipu.pona.la/2003/05/mama-pi-mi-mute/

and i bet therell be many more as more things are added to the collection

[boreal meadow]

Wow, didn’t know there were this many if them. Although I should’ve thought of the tower of babel

[vestal herald]

Ode an die Freude is actually either

• 3, because I also sang it here https://youtube.com/shorts/BkJxSRWN6S0, or
• 1, because they're just different recordings of the same song (and translation and singer kind of)

[vague coral]

a mi lukin ala e ni tan ike pi ma [YouTube] 😭

[heady vigil]

do we have any constraints on the input names

I found an artist named > go north_

and that might be a bit bad for URLs and the sorts I think

[carmine quarry]

upload and check if the /a/ link works lol

[heady vigil]

what the heck

[carmine quarry]

what

[heady vigil]

distraught over that idea

for now, I just 'sanitised' the name as go north. it's good enough

[heady vigil]

this symmetry is so nice <3

this font will haunt me forever

[vague coral]

a sina pali kalama sin anu seme

[heady vigil]

ni

@vague coral mrow

[boreal meadow]

I love sp serif fonts. There was one in the making some time ago, but it vanished into thin air

[vague coral]

sina pali ala pali e wile Request pi tawa insa Pull

lon tenpo poka

[heady vigil]

e sem e

[vague coral]

/pull/64... nanpa tu!

[hasty quarry]

bumping this, 2022/10/jan-lawa-oliki is an updated version of 2011/03/jan-lawa-oliki, and 2018/10/jan-ala is a very slightly modified clone of 2005/12/wan-taso

but also we have cases like 2022/06/jan-monsuta-loje where a preexisting text (2021/10/jan-monsuta-loje) is read on kalama sin with a little bit of intro/outro

[wraith loom]

i just realised poki Lapo would be lupa Lapu in tuki tiki

how fun

[hasty quarry]

we could just use 'original' property, but when its an updated version of a translation it feels odd to not have the base text as the original.

see also 2024/07/kulupu-jan-tepo/ which is a spoof of 2020/11/kulupu-jan-tenpo/ (which is itself a translation)

[nova gale]

it should work

astro sanitization is pretty good

[vague coral]

https://youtu.be/vGKas8sm3qw
https://youtu.be/FEN7_AuZ73M

[carmine quarry]

reviewing https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/lipu/pull/3
@hasty quarry

This clutters the nav bar a little.
yep; maybe once we know how people really use the site itll be more obvious what kind of nav we need
Should we bother showing an index in the prev/next if the current work is the only one with that tag/author/collection/adaptation?
ive considered handling that edge case but didn't bother; yep, we could exclude them

We need a better way of handling when the original is another work in Lapo.
Giving some more information, perhaps just a link, for the orginal would also be helpful for locating non-Lapo works
if lipu.pona.la links become reliable enough, and we don't anticipate a competitor frontend, we could just add lipu.pona.la links in notes??

It might be nice to browse adaptations of all works by a specific author
true

considerations aside, this is usable by itself, so merging

[vague coral]

nasin ni li pona tawa mi → [mu](/plaintext/2020/02/mu.md) · la ilo moku li ken ante wile e ona
-a taso poki [Notes] li lon ala lon nasin [Markdown]

[carmine quarry]

@hasty quarry i invited you to https://github.com/kulupu-lapo

[shut flume]

kapesi Pake is listed as jan Kapesi Pake and kapesi Pake

has two separate entries

also jan kala and kala salan are the same person

also janAetherStar and jan Minasa and jan Mali are all the same person

is there a better way to agregate people who have multiple aliases?

[carmine quarry]

just regex-replacing all instances with the same name, i suppose

[shut flume]

a lon

waso seko and jan seko is another one

mun kekan san and jan kekan san are both listed

does it make sense to have an 'also known as' field for authors

(idek how that would even begin to work)

[fading plover]

astro should have a mechanism for content types that are purely data which would solve this

you can have a field be a string by default, and become an Author if defined

[shut flume]

(also i know that i personally am not against having both jan sasalin and jan lakuse associated with my work at this point, but it may be different for folks who have done name changes for more personal reasons)

the regex solution would sidestep the ethics dilemna

[fading plover]

you'd still need to define each so they'd be like
gregdan3: alias: jan kekan san
jan kekan san: alias: jan kekan san
mun kekan san: alias: jan kekan san

and this could cause trouble with two users having the same name, altho i guess that's an existing problem
maybe there's a better format that lets you collect all the names together

[shut flume]

whatever solution there is its maybe not good to just have a database of toki pona deadnames

idk.interesting to think about and i'd like to hear other peoples' opinons

[carmine quarry]

i would prefer people to update files rather than add metadata to authors

we might eventually encounter a problem of name collisions (possibly already; see jan Mika discussion from earlier) in which case we might start adding some sort of less collisioney ids to authors

be they universal ids or just like, @-tags

[heady vigil]

I would like that too, tho it can get tricky especially at scale

it is already causing problems now, but imagine this for also the normal tags. and what about searchability

thinking about how booru image boards deal with it, where tags can have aliases and relationships
if you set an alias, the posts are all updated too, only remaining for inputting and searchability
if you define a relationship, say parent-child, then if you add a tag then many come together. e.g. 'punk rock' adds 'punk, rock, music, lyrics' as tags

would be so good if we weren't constrained by silly things like 'we need to actually implement this into the computer and that without any help from existing architecture' blehhhh

[twilit haven]

Hmm, what about two different people with the same username?

There should be an author id system. You could put the author name, non-tokiponized author name, country etc. in each id, to distinguish them from other people. The author id system would also allow aliases to work.

[warm valley]

ken la jan X en jan X li ken kama ni: jan-X_01 en jan-X_02

[twilit haven]

There wouldn't be a way to tell them apart. Is 01 or 02 the one, or maybe the person that made this piece of writing isn't even listed yet.

[warm valley]

like they could be differentiated as:
jan X (1)
jan X (2)

[twilit haven]

How would you know which jan X made this work? Maybe another person with the same name made the work and they aren't listed yet. You can't distinguish them by a random number which has no correlation to that person.

You could add a biography to each author, or fields like name, nontokiponized name, country etc.

[heady vigil]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4spA21Q9EJw

[twilit haven]

ni li len.

[boreal viper]

Since the alias problem isn't solved yet I think I'll PR a change of my one writing that is under my alias rn

(or should i just wait?)

[boreal viper]

Also do we have any way to support or plan to support updated versions? I've made a v2 for both of my utala musi submissions since submitting them there

[boreal viper]

-# we is doing some heavy work there lol

[nova gale]

just add the new version under the new date

[boreal viper]

ahh ok!

[hasty quarry]

there's currently no special system for revisions. you could add both versions to a collection or just put a link to v1 in v2's note

[twilit haven]

mi pana e ni tawa poki Lapo: https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/114

[hasty quarry]

another edge case for the 'original' property: https://lipu.pona.la/2023/12/toki-musi-tan-jan-sapo-tan-jan-katulo/ is a translation of an adaptation

[vague coral]

https://www.lulu.com/shop/jan-mimoku/toki-musi-pona/ebook/product-17470545.html

[heady vigil]

why the fuck are there footnotes in the title..

[twilit haven]

The original one has those.

[heady vigil]

aa

[hasty quarry]

also https://lipu.pona.la/unknown-year/unknown-month/quickies/ which is

• based on a large number of seperate texts
• not translations, more like references, extremely abridged summaries
• also according to wikisource has multiple revisions

[hasty quarry]

Do we have any consistent method for dealing with interleaved non-toki-pona text? I've seen some presented normally, and some put inside a <!-- comment --> (usually just for translations though)

[carmine quarry]

really depends. ideally the end user sees no english

but the way english can be interwoven varies a lot, from having two separate documents to being used as proper names throughout a text

so giving an internally consistent guideline is difficult

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil @vague coral request: some sort of "recommended music playlist" collection

[vague coral]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFYdYh47BfAM7Zm0kvTEUJhqY_Oi56JT-

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil found something absolutely unhinged we should definitely archive

[heady vigil]

oh damn

[carmine quarry]

https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2018/06/28/0500-the-book-of-woo-in-english/

[heady vigil]

sobbing

[carmine quarry]

you know, for a comic that features a raccoon god, i completely forgot or missed that the authors of Sandra and Woo know about toki pona

the comic has been mentioned several times on this server, by me, jan Tepo, and someone i don't recall

[vague coral]

seme a?! · mi lukin a e lipu kijetesantakalu ni li lukin ala a e ni

A word taken from the lapine language in Richard Adam’s epic novel Watership Down about a group of rabbits, meaning “A big, uncountable number”. Matthew and I invented the word “walu” for it in Toki Pona.
-# mute:

@sleek galleon o · sina sona ala sona e ni

[toxic thorn]

soweli meli li nimi e ni: soweli meli li toki poka kon sewi. wan la meli suli la ona li jo e oko pimeja. tenpo nanpa walu sike pini la ona li open lon li kon sewi li kute e kon sewi. kon sewi li toke e ni: o alasa e ma mama sin. ona meli li pana e nimi “mi tawa” tawa jan sama ale sama li tawa tan ma pi suno pi pini ala. tenpo tawa tenpo, tawa ma lete la ona meli li lukin e ken pi moli en pakala. tawa pona en sona pona la sona ona la kon sewi ike li moli ala e ona meli. tenpo suno la ona lape. tenpo pimeja la noka suno li pana e nasin tawa ona lon tan ma pimeja, lon tawa ma suno. pini pi tawa suli la ona li kama tawa ma pini. ma pini li kasi suli lon ma pi kasi suli pi kule laso pi tenpo ale.

soweli meli li toki poka kon sewi li mama meli pi soweli ale pi sinpin pi oko pimeja. mi soweli li sama ala e soweli ante. nasin ni la mi soweli li sama: meli suli li pilin luka e soweli ale kepeken luka sewi pi ona pi meli suli. tan ni la wawa sewi li tawa lon luka pi mi mute li sitelen e nasin pi ma pi kasi suli. nasin sewi pi meli suli li lon lawa mi mute. soweli ali pi oko pimeja li wile tawa sama meli suli. soweli li kute e nimi pi ona sewi la soweli pi sinpin ale pi oko pimeja li alasa e ma sin. tawa pona en sona pona la soweli pi sinpin pi oko pimeja li anpa e pakala. soweli pi oko pimeja li kepeken mute e luka li kepeken lili e wawa ante.

tenpo sike pi nanpa walu la soweli ni li musi lon ma pi kasi suli pi laso pi tenpo ale. ala li ante. taso tenpo sike suno 10000 la jan sona wan li kama tawa sinpin en sinpin lon ma pi ma nena pi insa suli. jan li anpa e wan e ale. ale la li lon poka ante. jan sona li tawa ma mi. mi li tawa ma pi jan sona. jan mute li pilin ike tawa mi. jan mute li pilin olin tawa mi. jan lili li pilin e sona lon pi mi soweli. mi sowli mute li kama jo e pilin pakala e moli lon tomo suli monsuta. soweli mute ante li kama jo e pona kin lon ma pi kasi suli tan kiwen en kiwen pi kule ala pi jan sona ni.

jan sona mute li lon ma ante e soweli pi oko pimeja. taso tenpo seli pi ma ale la waso lawa ike en waso moli ike li open e tomo uta tawa pali ala tawa soweli pali pi nanpa lili. soweli li anpa e ma sin. mi soweli li tawa insa ma pi kasi suli tawa insa ma pi kiwen en kiwen pi kule ala. mi soweli li kama sona mute. mama mije en mama meli li anpa. taso tenpo kama la soweli lili li sewi! tenpo ni kin la nanpa pi soweli mi li suli! tenpo kama la nanpa li kama ala lili. luka wan li lon uta kiwen pi ilo moli. luka tu wan li lon ma pi musi en moli ala! tenpo pi soweli pi oko pimeja li sin!

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil @vague coral @nova gale im thinking of crosspromoting "general purpose community infrastructure" by adding header links
something like "Course - Library - News - Community - More"
linking to wasona, lipu pona, sin kulupu, ma pona, and pona.la respectively

any feedback or criticism?

if you excuse an airline metaphor, there is a tradeoff between the "hub and spoke model" and the "direct flights model". tokipona.org and pona.la are both "hubs" linking to a lot of smaller destinations, but neither site likely gets that much traffic by itself, so the recommendations might go in vain. on the other hand, if every site recommends every other site, this creates a maintenance and ui nightmare

so im thinking we need a shortlist of resources that need to crosspromote each other, including a hub

[nova gale]

Sure! One good place would be the introduction paragraph below the header on the index page

[carmine quarry]

im currently thinking where lipu pona has inner-site navigation

cause 3/5 sites i would like to crosspromote use the same template

and pona.la needs to be redone anyway

[nova gale]

sure. where would you put the insite navigations?

both in the header would be quite exessive i think.

[vague coral]

sona mi la ma [pona] li wile ala awen wawa anu seme · [[Communities]] li ike ala ike

[twin prism]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Communities

[carmine quarry]

ken. but statistics shows even with the success of kama sona ma pona still makes up the vast majority of traffic / messages

[carmine quarry]

agreed. ill have to dwell on it

[carmine quarry]

@nova gale is this acceptable? best i could come up with so far

inner site navigation shouldn't be here anyway, it will presumably keep getting new pages

rolled it out, if anyone is deeply disturbed by this design i understand (and want feedback)

[nova gale]

it is quite rough on mobile tho...

[carmine quarry]

part of it is that "All * Collections * Tags * Authors * Adaptations" doesn't actually need to be there anymore

we already got them on the landing page

nice and big

[nova gale]

how about adding the cross site nav to the footer webring style?

[carmine quarry]

ive thought of it but i don't think anyone looks there

[nova gale]

"toki pona: Editors' pick"

true

one cool-ish idea would be adding a floating menu for the in site nav

[carmine quarry]

floating like what

send a screenshot of a comparable design

[twilit haven]

Is ilo wawa pi jan pali on here?

[carmine quarry]

whats that

[twilit haven]

A story I made.

[twilit haven]

ni ^^

[carmine quarry]

haven't merged yet because i haven't been looking at prs

[twilit haven]

How would one get that ability?

[nova gale]

a sticky box that stays on the same spot on the screen no matter the scroll

[carmine quarry]

good for one button (e.g. Add) but not a whole menu, imo

hamburger menus are probably the long term solution

but i don't want to figure them out today

someone else can tho

[nova gale]

it's a couple levels of git(hub) deep. if you haven't used the tech before, the learning curve is super rough

why the rush?

[twilit haven]

I know Github. I have been using it for a while.

[twilit haven]

Sorry.

[nova gale]

i can make a prototype

[nova gale]

no not like that. just curious.

[carmine quarry]

okay so essentially submissions can be done by anyone on the internet. but obviously we don't want anyone on the internet to appear on our site, we want moderation. more specifically, just checking that the submission makes sense and is not broken (as in formatting, and as in technically)

for that purpose we currently have myself, @nova gale @vague coral @heady vigil who have rights to edit the repo, and can review prs. no one has done so because people have other responsibilities. but its open and someone will get to it some time

while yes, ideally they would be merged as soon as they're made, in practice volunteers aren't free 24/7

[twilit haven]

This was sent 4 days ago.

The story isn't worthy of being on poki Lapo anyway.

[carmine quarry]

when i say aren't free 24/7, i mean people can go weeks without checking github

[carmine quarry]

this is nonsensical, all creative works in toki pona are things we want to archive

[nova gale]

I, personally, have been off the grid for four days now lol. just got back to the city and now i am catching up on my work projects.

[twilit haven]

I like archiving things too.

[nova gale]

all toki pona text is worthy of archiving

[twilit haven]

https://archive.org/details/@sebbog 119 uploads and
https://archive.org/details/@sebbog/web-archive 2406 web archives.

(sebbog is the non-tokiponized version of sepo)

[nova gale]

also, crazy lifehack: write a bunch of nonsense toki pona texts and upload them to lapo to poison llms

(/j?)

[carmine quarry]

ive thought about that before

[twilit haven]

I also have plenty of web archives on https://archive.today, https://ghostarchive.org, and https://megalodon.jp

[vague coral]

ike la ona li ante wawa la ilo li ken sona e toki [pona] ike e toki [pona] pona kin li ken poki ante e ona

[twilit haven]

(Although those sites don't have accounts, so I don't know how much)

[twilit haven]

Even my five-ish liners?

That's my first Toki Pona story. It's just a short amount of lines.

I haven't published it.

Publishing it now would ruin the date I would put on it. I can't put creation date, so it looks like jan Sepo recently wrote that short ass story.

[nova gale]

we should make a bunch of markov babble in toki pona with some proprietary salting, add a closed source blob to [lipu] that can detect the salt and exclude all the texts that contain it.

[nova gale]

yes. all text is good text

we also have a bunch of haikus and stuff

[vague coral]

o pana e nimi sin lon toki [pona] pona :3

"akesi li wile lon nena · mijilojike pona li lon ona"

[nova gale]

lol

[twilit haven]

the 13th of April 2025, my first Toki Pona-language story.

[nova gale]

or just add a bunch of random invisible unicode chars to at least flag the text

[twilit haven]

The thing is I also wrote a story entirely about Toki Pona, but in the English language.

I don't think that's worthy of being on poki Lapo.

[nova gale]

nope. Lapo is tpt.

[carmine quarry]

@vague coral do you think this is genuine or an elaborate way to spam us into having more konwes https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/120/files

[twilit haven]

Here is what it says:

o lukin a!

seme?

ni li monsuta pakala. monsuta li nimi "Kepe".

seme li monsuta "Kepe"?

ijo laso lon ni.```

It should have said "nimi monsuta" not "monsuta li nimi"

[carmine quarry]

@warm valley new information for you: youtube links nowadays attach tracking information, please delete it before submitting:

https://youtu.be/AaPWRQSmDyo?si=oylYZNYJgqdKsTsh
->
https://youtu.be/AaPWRQSmDyo

[vague coral]

ona li lon ma ante lon tenpo pini li ni ala → "ilo konwe li ilo pi nasin konwe pi konwe konwe" · la pona

[carmine quarry]

(could we do that automatically? probably. but effort)

[vague coral]

mi ken ilo e ni :3

[nova gale]

lol,, i think it's genuine tho... if it was only "konwe konwe konwe..." it would be a greater red flag

[carmine quarry]

you are free to pr lapo/submit

[twilit haven]

Is this good for Lapo?

[nova gale]

yes

[twilit haven]

I wonder if this is good Toki Pona for being written less than two weeks after starting to learn it.

[vague coral]

a ni la toki sina li pona :p

mi kin li sitelen pakala lon open pi kama sona · https://hecko.my.to/toki-pona/nanpa-je-ka/#original

[twilit haven]

sitelen pakala li lon seme?

[vague coral]

ona {li} jo e ni: noka ona li {lon} insa e{X} poki pi lipu kasi, lon poka {pi} toki ni

[carmine quarry]

merged everything except the broken stuff and the low effort submission

@vague coral please decide what to do with https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/87 cause i don't know and i don't want to think about it

[vague coral]

nnnnn

mi ken e ona lon tenpo poka

[carmine quarry]

i am undoing the change by @nova gale where <a> is made black by default because (a) accented links are a default on the internet, (b) i would like the sibling-sites of wasona, lipu pona, and sin kulupu to be clearly related but distinct, and removal of link accent colour makes them way too similar

hope my argumentation makes sense

that commit also included tweaks to colour variables, which i think were good and i will port to the other sites

[nova gale]

alright,, i think those are quite valid arguments. i am not sure if matching the styles will be sustainable in the future as [lipu] evolves, but for now, i support this.

also the accents might cause problems with accessibility(?)

[carmine quarry]

1. we can use a shade of the accent colour if it turns out too bright / dark
2. if accented links were an accessibility hassle, surely the internet would have moved away from them by now?

[nova gale]

also i apologize for fcking up the commits (oop)

[carmine quarry]

i don't think you fucked up any commits

[nova gale]

this seems problematic but sure

[carmine quarry]

what do you mean

those were all colour tweaks, it makes sense they are one commit

[nova gale]

one feature per commit is standard i think but yea, i guess it makes sense

[nova gale]

it depends on the accent but for ours specifically, even when the bg is set to complete black, the contrast isn't enough

[carmine quarry]

on all three sites i made the dark mode accent slightly lighter to compensate

for some reason this wasn't already in lipu.pona

[nova gale]

but then it doesn't match the logo

[carmine quarry]

can't we force the logo to be a certain colour

i dont' remember how but it should be doable if anyone wants to figure it out

im stupid, is there any reason why .secondary a doesn't capture the <a>s below

oh

thats not a class=

[vague coral]

nnn tan seme la linja pi lapo ala li suli

[carmine quarry]

consistency

check out swapping between the three sites

imo very satisfying

[vague coral]

a ken,,

[vague coral]

https://www.lulu.com/shop/jan-mimoku/toki-musi-pona/ebook/product-17470545.html
lipu ni la · lipu li kama lon mun #9 · taso jan li mun e ona lon mun #4 pi sike sama · mi o seme a

[boreal meadow]

mi sona ala e tenpo e nasin pana ona. taso poki o jo e lipu mute kin pi jan Ne!

[vague coral]

lon,, https://jan-ne.github.io/lipu/

[hasty quarry]

mi la this feels a bit odd in the context of lipu Lapo. its nice when switching between them all to have them so connected, but when you're just on Lapo it's strange to have links to completely different sites be so prominent. i wanna navigate to other parts of the library, not wildly different tp content.
im in favour of moving this to the footer, though I do understand that gets much less traffic.

the listed sites have like very different purposes, why not just link to a "hub" like tokipona.org or sona pona that in turn can link them all (that way theres no need to worry about keeping the UIs in sync or updating which we are promoting if anything gets out of date)

there's also the issue of like, toki pona has many courses and communities, and the linked newspaper and community are english-centric while the course & library (eventually) will be translated.

[carmine quarry]

the listed sites have like very different purposes,
while this is true, i think there is a more interesting framing: i think put together these links form a complete suite of resources. other resources are either already available through one of the five, either as a source or a provided alternative.

im in favour of moving this to the footer, though I do understand that gets much less traffic.
i am open to this change if the feedback is overwhelmingly negative, so i'll wait for more feedback

why not just link to a "hub" like tokipona.org or sona pona that in turn can link them all
ive already made an argument about hubs' downsides above, but to add another one: i believe both tokipona.org and sona pona feel an obligation to list all approximately equivalent products, adding to choice paralysis

the linked newspaper and community are english-centric
the newsletter is english centric because it is the most sizeable (and targeted) reader base, and at the current rate of contribution (= single writer) i can only run the minimum viable product. a different contributor could, if they wanted to, contribute and run in perpetuity a toki pona version of the newsletter.

ma pona has to be linked prominently simply due to its scale. it could potentially be a apge listing several communities, but for example the Communities page on sona.pona is comprehensive rather than recommendational, and as such is completely unusable for the simple task of "finding a good, active community"

[sleek galleon]

i would change community to discord or discord chat

in the new links at the top

[carmine quarry]

"Discord" makes a lot of sense, done

[hasty quarry]

almost finished setting things up for translation. shockingly .toLocaleDateString("tok") works out of the box! idk if we wanna stick with what it gives though

[heady vigil]

yup, because of CLDR

which we're updating now

[carmine quarry]

was there a past submission, and this is like the second version?

[heady vigil]

wdym

[carmine quarry]

if browsers today know how to localise dates in tok, there must already be data about tok, right?

[heady vigil]

yes

that's CLDR

[carmine quarry]

is it from the data from today, or from some time in the past

[heady vigil]

past

[carmine quarry]

well thats what i asked

[heady vigil]

Tepo submitted it in 2022

[carmine quarry]

btw pona.la has been astroified

4/5 links are now to conformantly styled sites, and one is to discord so not much i can do about that

[heady vigil]

woag

https://pona.la

[heady vigil]

I fucked up big and now need some help :>>

I tried publishing a music2 branch but it seems I checked it out from music not what I wanted

and messed around and found out with rebasing and merging which made it worse

how do I get the two commits I want from remote but revert to what was before

[carmine quarry]

i dont' see music2 on kulupu-lapo/poki

but anyway, if you only have a couple of good commits, id recommend trying out git cherry-pick

so start a new clean good branch, git cherry-pick those good commits into it, push

and the messed up branch can then be metaphorically trashed

[heady vigil]

the messed up branch is main :(

[heady vigil]

update: got it sorted

[carmine quarry]

wwawa

[twilit haven]

@carmine quarry how did you come up with the name "Lapo"?

[carmine quarry]

nasin sitelen kalama la [lipu ale pona .]

[nova gale]

lapo goes southern finnish woods

[heady vigil]

this is so ominous

[nocturne compass]

agreed

[carmine quarry]

@hasty quarry you now have write access to the site and poki repos

[carmine quarry]

@vague coral do you want https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/122 merged?

i think its ambiguous because its not a draft yet it says 80%

[vague coral]

miii sona wawa ala

ijo tu li lon ala li ken wile · wan la sitelen · tu la lipu pi ma [Wikipesija]

sitelen la ona li lon ala linjuwi li ken ala lon ma [Commons] tan nasin pana ala la mi sona ala e nasin pona · lipu pi ma [Wikipesija] la,, ona li tan ma [Wikipesija] :p

[carmine quarry]

ill convert both this and the music pr into drafts, and you two can convert it back to an open pr once you feel like its ready

and ping me when you do, ofc

[carmine quarry]

if music pr becomes longstanding, ill check up on it around, say, 1 july

[twin prism]

Set a reminder in 2 weeks and 6 days from now (<t:1751268866:f>)
View reminders with the reminders command

[carmine quarry]

did some small cleanup work around the github org

such as giving our repos an icon

[hasty quarry]

these commits r so musi it makes me wanna merge without looking.. /ref

tenpo ni la lipu Lapo li toki pona a!

https://lipu.pona.la/tok/

[carmine quarry]

@hasty quarry a cultural misunderstanding: lets have prs reviewed before merging, even if you have write access

the write access allows us to work within one repo without annoying forking / push access behaviour

[azure gate]

ni li seme

[carmine quarry]

gonna review the already merged stuff but itll take a while

[lofty geode]

mu a
ni li pona mute

[carmine quarry]

i will put together a list of things i want to behave differently but later

[twilit haven]

a, pakala a! mi sitelen toki ala e toki pona.

tenpo seme la, lipu Lapo li kepeken sitelen pona a!?

[carmine quarry]

ona li kepeken ala tan ni: lipu ale la, namako sitelen lili li ken lon li ken lon ala li ken sama sitelen pi toki Inli li ken nasa li ken ijo ante

ilo li lukin e ona li alasa sitelen pona e ona la seme

mi sona ala

ken la jan ante pi pona ilo li sona pona li pali

[twilit haven]

mi sona ala e toki sina kin.

taso, sina ken ala toki Inli tan ni: tenpo ni li tenpo pi toki pona taso.

ni la, mi ken ala sona e toki sina.

[twilit haven]

mi sona e ni: jan ante li ken namako e ni. kala Asi li ken ala e ni.

[heady vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/ben-doyle-jet-lag-jet-lag-the-game-djungelskog-orangutan-gif-78518037447098110

[hasty quarry]

a mi sona pakala.
tenpo kama la mi ante e ijo la mi ni ala

[hasty quarry]

taso, mi awen sona pona ala. wile sina la mi o commit directly to a branch on the main repo and then send a PR that I wait to be merged anu seme

[carmine quarry]

ye

[hasty quarry]

nothing finalised yet but here's the list of authors sorted by total words written (roughly)

and the longest works on Lapo

[carmine quarry]

actually i take it back. @hasty quarry you are moving quickly and bringing lots of features and thats good. it is probably better to not interfere with your flow and only step in later if youre out of inspiration

my worry is primarily about cohesion with other projects and long term maintainability, which can be done as a later review

in short youre free to commit to main but expect my / other people changes on top of it at some point down the line

[boreal meadow]

How come Nasi has such a weird word count?

[carmine quarry]

see for yourself: https://lipu.pona.la/2023/08/nasi/?q=a/jan_Kepe

its a very out there work

that im not confident what to do with

[boreal meadow]

Ooh, this looks super cool

[boreal viper]

Wow, I didn't expect to see myself in the top 10 here

although i guess it's counting kalama sin transcripts? which probably is a lot of it

(not because i wrote the captions, but because i'm in a few episodes)

[carmine quarry]

feel free to find anything else youve done thats not backed up yet!

[boreal viper]

i think everything i've produced that i find worth backing up has been recorded, personally!

ah wait, except for the v2s of my short stories. which i've been told i could just add as new entries, appending v2 to the name or something?

[carmine quarry]

the line between editing a new version and uploading separately is murky

probably whichever option you find more reasonable

[boreal viper]

the originals were from writing contests, the revisions made to post on my site. so it seems like a good idea to not touch the originals. could i add links between the versions?

hm i guess there isn't a great way to do that, maybe?

[scenic river]

https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/tree/main/plaintext/2007/06
seems like the same song was accidentally added two times instead of two different songs
this is the second one https://youtu.be/eq2K1Y485H4
i've got no idea how to tag

[warm valley]

can someone add the tag "Bocchi the Rock!" to this article?

i tried editing it on github but i dont think it was approved for some reason

like the tag already exists I'd rather the tag be used for things that fall under it than not

[heady vigil]

answers may be a bit slow rn btw

it seems like people are with other projects for a hot minute

[carmine quarry]

link to a pr? if i overlook things youre always free to lemme know

ill edit it manually here because its a quick fix, but ye in general

while youre here @warm valley, next time you submit, please strip the tracker (highlighted in blue) from youtube links, thanks

[heady vigil]

yeah

could we have something to check for trackers

and generally normalise links

like youtu.be --> youtube.com

[warm valley]

thank you and sorry, it appears i was the one that was overlooking things. apparently i wasn't actually
generating a pull request when i was editing it...🤦‍♂️

[warm valley]

also for some reason this (jan pi lawa lawa) isnt showing on the site(?)

like, i can see its in the files but its not appearing on site

[carmine quarry]

so what happened is github pages deployment failed because more than one deployment was being made at a time because i merged several things in close succession. a funny edge case. should be fixed in a minute. probably don't care enough to prevent this from happening in the future

we have reached 1400 works

[twilit haven]

Two of those works are mine!

[heady vigil]

wooo

[carmine quarry]

today i will look into installing goatcounter into lipu.pona.la and the other three sites

a privacy absolutist would dislike the addition of a tracker, but it seems to be already a popular choice in the community (used on liputenpo.org and mun.la), open source, and as uninvasive as a tracker could reasonably get while still being useful

[carmine quarry]

added it to wasona.com for now, will check in a day to see if any data actually makes it to goatcounter

and by a day i mean three minutes because the data has indeed refreshed already

[twilit haven]

What does the tracker do?

[carmine quarry]

https://www.goatcounter.com/

tldr: of primary interest are:

• what pages get traffic,
• what domains traffic comes from
  of low interest are:
• general user info (operating system, browser, location) which for a large enough dataset is just the internet average, weighted towards nerd options (linux, firefox)

you can see an example thats been running for several years here: https://liputenpo.goatcounter.com/

[heady vigil]

no, they count how many goats you have

[carmine quarry]

so true

[toxic thorn]

ilo pi nanpa soweli

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/131 does this count as a creative work

[heady vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/f1-gif-8687200129990498193

me rn

[heady vigil]

I suppose........

[vague coral]

sama la https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/blob/37db48eef40e31fdd8c38c2af66f1752def49d1b/plaintext/2021/08/jan-pona.md

[nova gale]

if it is, it most certainly is a creative one

[heady vigil]

https://cyberpunk.lol/@vantablack/114683126014987466

🌈✨ vanta rainbow black ✨🌈 (@[email protected])

kalama mu
soweli li pona
meli li pona
kala li pona
kalama li pona

mu a
mu a
mu a
a a a a

soweli li pona
akesi li pona
waso li pona
laso li pona

mu a
mu a
mu a
epiku!…

dot lol · Jun 14, 2025, 6:27 PM

[nova gale]

How should we approach something like the ntlk tp corpus? I feel like the overlap between poki and it is non-neglitiable, it has little to no metadata and it is almost as big as poki. @carmine quarry do you have any ideas?

[carmine quarry]

the problem is if we cant find attribution, its not admissible

thats like the bare minimum metadata

we can, however, list it as "one of the major collections that arent included", if need be

[nova gale]

Yea exactly. I also don't feel good about like 4.5megs entries with just "bare minimum" metadata

like dates would be nice

[carmine quarry]

same with, for instance, ilo Muni - its big, its important, its tpt, but its not creative works and doesnt have any obvious split into documents

[nova gale]

it's sad tho :( so much good data going to waste

[carmine quarry]

its less going to waste and more "depending on what your goal is, you might want to include or exclude it"

we could even include it in lipu.pona.la but not poki, for instance

[nova gale]

that is an option

also, it this is the case, i think we should cross over "Corpora" and "ntlk" from the README's todo list

[carmine quarry]

go for it

[nova gale]

done

i am also interested in taking a look at the wikisources. will prolly do/start doing that tomorrow.

[twilit haven]

What is it?

[hasty quarry]

ilo Muni is a tool where you can search the usage of tp words and phrases over time. it calculates the statistics based on a (afaik) private database that has data taken from all the messages in a bunch of Discord servers, telegram chats, subreddits, youtube videos + more

its basically (trying to be) a complete collection of people talking in toki pona to each other online (rather than a collection of all toki pona creative works)

[fading plover]

• it will also include poki Lapo upon its next update!
• although it's currently broken for reasons unknown!

[twilit haven]

o mu ilo ala tawa mi.

[hasty quarry]

a mi pakala

[hasty quarry]

im down to manually find the extra metadata on nltk-tp and add it to poki

[hasty quarry]

actually nvm, the jan Kipo section seems to just be discussions (mostly taken from reddit and facebook i think) (with archivist-provided translations & i suspect silent alterations). [these do have some metadata in csv files, including a genre that could easily be filtered to 'tale', 'poetry', etc if someone else wants to do that] Happy to do the rest though

[hasty quarry]

if the original source is down, should i put sources: , sources: null, sources: - "<dead link>" or sources: - "https://web.archive.org/..."?

[carmine quarry]

sources - archive link is preferable to me

[nova gale]

looking into this now

What is the policy for sp only text?

[carmine quarry]

convert to latin text

we have a couple stragglers in ucsur sp but like yeah, we only have so many spoons amongst us

[wraith loom]

what does that mean

-# those last 2 words are... suspicious

[carmine quarry]

if we keep polishing everything we will lose out on more important progress

[wraith loom]

this is real? 😭

[carmine quarry]

im probably appropriating it which is bad but also its too useful of a metaphor

[wraith loom]

"native english speaker" here not knowing this exists

[carmine quarry]

e.g. gathering so many texts that lipu.pona.la becomes the obvious place to go to for anything from the past is more important than making sure every single text is meticulously well presented

[nova gale]

also, as poki expands, we get more maintainers as people gather interest in the project, so it might just be more efficient to fix the mishaps by just expanding as quickly as possible and assign the job to new contributors

[carmine quarry]

yes

[nova gale]

i don't like the mediawiki api

@carmine quarry should I store the latest update date or the original creation date for wiki style text?

[carmine quarry]

we shouldn't be storing regularly updating text

is there a source outside the wiki?

[nova gale]

the texts are from wikisource, so they should technically not be updating

[nova gale]

ummmmm

over a thousand pages of toki soweli tan jan Beatrix Potter

[carmine quarry]

@vestal herald knows everything to do with that i believe

[vestal herald]

Don't have plans to update that

There's the archive.org (not archived websites, actual uploads) uploads that serve as the main source

[nova gale]

thankfully it's all written in plaintext over at wikisources

[vestal herald]

I believe the uploads include the DOC, if the Wikisource is incomplete

[nova gale]

Does this look complete?

[vestal herald]

uh
well
no
this is so strange

1. PDF is not great to copy stuff from
2. if you want a PDF, there's already a full PDF over at https://archive.org/details/toki-soweli/beatrix-potter/sitelen Lasina/PDF/toki soweli/, no need to STEP#1 get the PDF, STEP#2 extract the text from the PDF, STEP#3 reformat text for Wikisource, STEP#4 generate a PDF from the incomplete Wikisource

[vestal herald]

that one has half of the stories
maybe a bit less

so https://archive.org/download/toki-soweli/beatrix-potter/sitelen Lasina/PDF/toki soweli.pdf to download the PDF, https://archive.org/download/toki-soweli/beatrix-potter/sitelen Lasina/DOCX/toki soweli.docx to download the DOCX

[nova gale]

wikisource also has plaintext with image links

[nova gale]

(which is what i'd prefer)

[nova gale]

but i think i'll just use this

[carmine quarry]

now we know lipu.pona.la receives ~50% of the traffic wasona receives, and a similar level to liputenpo.org (fewer people, but we have more page views)

given wasona and lipu.pona.la are only a couple months old, and liputenpo has been going for years, id say this is pretty successful

[carmine quarry]

@nova gale @hasty quarry @heady vigil @vague coral jan Sonja wants sitelen Lasina / sitelen pona support in poki Lapo and/or lipu.pona.la. i see three reasonable ways forward for this:

1. poki Lapo accepts both sitelen Lasina and ucsur sitelen pona texts. the frontend is responsible for figuring out which one a file is, creating the other one automatically, and letting the user pick which one they're reading
2. poki Lapo accepts only sitelen Lasina (as it does now), and we force all texts' sitelen pona to be derived from sitelen Lasina. compared to (1), this is less code (only one converter), but it also ends up forcing automatic solutions even where the original is in sitelen pona.
3. we store two copies of every text that was written this way. this maximally preserves authorial intent, but is annoying for the possibility of texts ever getting touched, as the two files can go out of sync which is terrible.

[heady vigil]

awawa

in either case (1/2) we need that a standard be developed beforehand

[nova gale]

why not just add a sitelen pona font to lipu?

[heady vigil]

that's what option (2) is

[nova gale]

i mean sure but i do not know what we need the converter for

[carmine quarry]

• ligature fonts are all sorts of fucked. they will gladly eat little bits of english text we have floating around. they will gladly show glyphs no one uses. the ligatures are not standardised across fonts
• the main pain point is actually punctuation; our sitelen Lasina texts are allowed to have essentially any unicode character, and we need to have a good idea what those should become in sitelen pona. this is a gargantuan task

[heady vigil]

UCSUR:

• we need a stronger standard for UCSUR for dealing with variants and missing characters
• plus it will always contain a subsection of all toki pona words, so how to deal with those that will never be included
  Lasina:
• adding new tag(?)
• we need a stronger (Markdown compatible) standard for dealing with variants and cartouches

English text right

aaa

[carmine quarry]

the "standardised ligatures" project is kind of parallel to this. our biggest problem is not deciding whether compound glyphs should look like a&b or a+b or a-b, but rather how does one make a list of every single opening quote that ever occurs in our dataset, so that they all become a cjk angle quote. repeat for every questionable bit of unicode

[heady vigil]

MediaWiki has a way to deal with these which is to wrap strings with the escape sequence -{ }-
maybe something like that is needed if we choose Lasina

[heady vigil]

awawa

💥

[nova gale]

i am starting to think we should just make our own "standard" parallel to markdown

or adopt something more data oriented like asciidoc

[carmine quarry]

this is a great way to make sure poki Lapo is not reusable for anyone ever

[nova gale]

markdown isn't really feature rich or even intended enough to allow everything we have (- at least without bending it a lot)

[vague coral]

-# sina wile nasa wawa e sitelen tan musi la · mi jo e ilo tawa ni · nimi ona li [HTML]

[nova gale]

html is waay too broad and unstandardized tho

one idea would be to

• have a codeblock with a language tag like sp (```sp...)
• add a swich to lipu to translate the ucsur (or in future, sitelen pona unicode) to sitelen Lasina
  As ucsur -> Lasina is way easier than Lasina -> ucsur

[carmine quarry]

As ucsur -> Lasina is way easier than Lasina -> ucsur
ive already spoken about it with jan Sonja but ill repeat my point here: this kills all deliberate punctuation choices made by hundreds of authors

[nova gale]

the sitelen pona (and the punctuation) wouldn't be removed tho! we would only offer the option to view it in Lasina

[carmine quarry]

are you aware sitelen Lasina and sitelen pona have distinct and different punctuation preferences, and both have a variety of people who don't follow those preferences

a conversion (in either direction) that leaves punctuation in place as is is almost pointless

[nova gale]

could you give an example if where leaving the punctuation as is would not work? i do not think i am getting your (or jan Sonja's) point.

[carmine quarry]

the question mark

[nova gale]

elaborate

[carmine quarry]

sina suli anu lili?

[carmine quarry]

if you naively leave punctuation in place you get

[heady vigil]

,;:.-()

[carmine quarry]

sina suli anu lili seme

can you know if a sentence originally had a question mark? no

sina suli anu lili. is also a valid sentence

[heady vigil]

a silly one but valid nonetheless

[nova gale]

we would not be translating Lasina -> sp

only sp -> Lasina

no problem

[carmine quarry]

yes and now, if the original text was sp, you officially lose all cartouche information

[carmine quarry]

ive already given you an example where you cannot reconstruct punctuation

[heady vigil]

oh wait, I just realised this is supposed to be for ALL TEXTS?

[carmine quarry]

at this point im not suggesting any particular solution, just making sure everyone here is acquainted with the non-triviality of the issue at hand

[carmine quarry]

exactly.

[heady vigil]

OH

this sucks

[carmine quarry]

exactly.

[heady vigil]

💥

[nova gale]

i do not think i am following. might be a language barrier

[carmine quarry]

jan Juwan can you explain in good words

[heady vigil]

bleh

I can try

[carmine quarry]

meanwhile, my current thought is "do nothing". this is too hard. but yall have already shown me that when i think something is too hard (i18n for the site), someone out there has the spoons for it

therefore, i am mostly leaving this to yall to think about and act on

[nova gale]

again with the spoons lol :D

also, should we prefer partial solution or no solution in the short term

[heady vigil]

sitelen pona has a lot less punctuation than Lasina, commonly only the space, dot, colon and quotation marks
but Lasina introduces a lot more of them, some of which can introduce more meaning that can't be determined without additional context. Asi used the example of bare anu questions, which can be distinguished in Lasina but not in sp

[nova gale]

aaaaa

[heady vigil]

!?:;,-()

these for example

[shut flume]

in u.p.l i am forcing everyon to have a sitelen lasina version of texta that they send

[heady vigil]

yay

that's good to know

good practice

[shut flume]

b/c sitelen poma can be weird. there is one text that is handwrittem amd uses sitelen poma visual pums

and i have had the author describe the puns they do in the sitelen lasina version

[carmine quarry]

soma poma

[heady vigil]

I need to see 🥺

waiting patiently for it

[shut flume]

but the amiunt of people who want sp is very much up from last year

[nova gale]

on the other hand, we could add a warning that the text is machine translated and to check the sp version if one gets confused

[heady vigil]

true maybe

[nova gale]

i think we should accept this as the 80/20 solution and put a pin on improving it in the ~future~

[carmine quarry]

accept what

[heady vigil]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/540669747969392640/1382986518494449684/image0.gif

[carmine quarry]

no genuinely. what is the full solution youve come to

[nova gale]

the one with the code blocks and sp -> Lasina translation except add a big red banner that acnowledges the translation to the user and instructs them to check the sitelen pona version if they get confused

[carmine quarry]

i feel like i still don't understand how this covers all use cases but if other people understand and want to implement this then go ahead

i understand this is 95% a skill issu eon my part

[nova gale]

when writing

1. sp only text: wrap everything in the codeblock and go ham
2. mixed text: write the Lasina normally and sitelen pona inside the codeblocks
3. Lasina only: business as usual

when a user wants to view the text in

1. the original form: we show it to them regularly (with a lasina and ucsur font; you get the gist)
2. Lasina only: we translate all of the ucsur symbols to the corresponding Lasina words
3. sp only: only thing not possible with this (for now). will be iterated on in the future

[carmine quarry]

okay understood

the funny thing is im pretty sure jan Sonja primarily cares about 3

[nova gale]

ooooh

i mighve misunderstood

[carmine quarry]

i like your approach of giving the user three options, not two

[nova gale]

i tought she mainly cared about storing sp text in sp form

[carmine quarry]

going back to my original summary, this is option 1

[nova gale]

but i still think this is a good, low effort solution

[nova gale]

almost. less generating and no figuring out

[carmine quarry]

Lasina only: we translate all of the ucsur symbols to the corresponding Lasina words
i mean this is what i mean by generating
no figuring out
by figuring out i include not just probabilistic but also strictly algorithmic approaches

so yes this is very much within the realm of what i described

[nova gale]

sure

anyways, does this at least provide a good framework to write sp and lasina in?

[carmine quarry]

the downsides of option 1 are:

1. if an author has already written two full versions, we are sacrificing one of them (keeping both would be option 3)
2. you will need two converters, going both ways. one inside the codeblock and one outside. your solution was "ignore one of the two" which is obviously not enough for this. (option 2 has 1 converter, kind of, i guess)

the question is whether these downsides are acceptable. i leave that to yall

[nova gale]

1 la, that's just the versioning problem again
2 la, the sp -> lasina is easier so we would be doing that now and leaving the another way for the future

(and problem one might be solved with collections)

perhaps a property "another writing system at this and that path"

[nocturne compass]

we [not literal] institutionalized procastination 🔥

[nova gale]

exactly

or i don't know,, if that works it's prioritiziation right?

[warm valley]

toki a! can this be a collection? thanks!

items:
  - plaintext/2025/05/mije-sama-mi-li-kama-meli-sama-mi-lipu-lili-nanpa-wan-jan-masilo-en-sijelo-ike.md
  - plaintext/2025/06/mije-sama-mi-li-kama-meli-sama-mi-lipu-lili-nanpa-tu-jan-masilo-en-jasima-monsuta.md```

[nova gale]

go ahead

[twilit haven]

mi toki insa e ni: toki musi mute li lon ma sama la, ni li ken jo e kulupu anu seme?

ken la, toki pona mi li ike a.

mi sona ala e kulupu pi poki Lapo.

[snow pagoda]

ona li jo ala jo e ma pi ilo Siko? lukin mi la ona li jo

[twilit haven]

mi sona ala e toki sina.

sina sona e toki mi anu seme?

[snow pagoda]

you're asking about a forum or place where creators or maintainers on Lapo can speak?

[twilit haven]

I was asking about if many stories taking place in the same world/universe could be in a collection.

[heady vigil]

ni li wile e pali suli a. nasin ante ni li ken pona wawa: o kulupu poki ala ||(collection)||. o kulupu kule ||(tag)||.

collections are supposed to be structured in a chronical way. and it also involves editing two files every time to add one entry

this is fine for self contained works but if the work is never complete and doesn't follow a strict order, use tags instead

[twilit haven]

I wouldn't be able to make a whole universe of characters anyway. This is because I can't tokiponize names. I just describe each person like "jan pali" or "jan nanpa wan".

That's why I don't write many stories in Toki Pona.

[snow pagoda]

writing names is hard, i concur

[heady vigil]

ehhehehe

[twilit haven]

I wrote something a few days ago. Although it wasn't a full story, just an idea.

Should I send it here?

[heady vigil]

feel free

[twilit haven]

"kon" means "idea" by the way:
kon mi (jan Sepo): jan li toki e toki ante (toki pona ala) la, monsuta suli li moku e ona.

monsuta ni li lukin e ma ale. monsuta ni li kute e ma ale. toki pona taso li pona tawa monsuta ni. taso, toki ante li ike a tawa monsuta ni. sijelo pi monsuta ni li wile ala e moku la, monsuta li moku e jan pi toki ante.

monsuta ni li toki e ni: "o toki ala e toki ante a! o toki taso e toki pona a!"

jan pi toki ante li ike a tawa monsuta ni.

ona li ken sona e toki ante. ni li pona tawa monsuta ni. taso, ona li ken ala toki e toki ante. ni li ike a tawa monsuta ni.

tenpo sike suno 2025 la, tenpo sike mun 6 la, tenpo suno 20 la, jan Sepo li pali e kon ni. mi pali e ni lon tenpo pimeja. mi wile lape.

[heady vigil]

---

@nova gale boom
is there any way to split items into two lines
and make the box like into a grid

[nova gale]

yes, i was just lazy when i made that (also it was three in the morning

minmax layouts are hard (not really)

in fact i'll do it now

can't sleep either way and otherwise i'm just gonna doomscroll the finnish alternative for craigslist and impulse buy an old server again

(was in the middle of that when you pinged)

[nova gale]

Done 👍 It flows the blocks slightly weird on tablets in portrait mode. nothing major tho. prolly wouldn't even notive if i hadn't made it. definetly a 80/20 solution

here's pictures on mobile and tablet

also, a bit more rambling: i am fairly sure i am about 50% more efficient in the night

[heady vigil]

bleh

2x2 grid 🥺

[nova gale]

want me to tweak it to disallow that?

[vague coral]

-# a ni la poki mi [StoryWeaver] li ike,,

[heady vigil]

to allow 2x2

[nova gale]

yes

and disallow the 3x1+1x1 thing

[warm valley]

sorry had to make a duplicate pull request since the original one i made mispelled the title

also i tried to null the license in the add page (in)directly but it got 'null'-ed

[nova gale]

did you know that you can edit PRs?

[warm valley]

no

i cant edit the submission pull request i think because i used the website to make the pull request not directly on github

like it was made by jan Asi's account

oh god the title is still mispelled

[fading plover]

i have been reading about the nature of communal and professional work organization, and it really seems that All Work Ever is organized this way
not so much that you wait for somebody to come along who is willing to do the work, but that you are wholly dependent on somebody or multiple somebodies who have the energy and insight to achieve the goal. this can be distributed in a variety of ways, and you can take a lot of steps to maximize the productivity of the environment (and note that big tech companies have done this endlessly), but you generally can't produce a willingness to work from nothing

or put another way
extrinsic motivation is not very effective
intrinsic motivation is extremely effective, but hard to come by and maintain once obtained

[sleek galleon]

do you know what they conclude? is it basically let intrinsically motivated and talented people do what they want and don't try to ask of them any parts for a bigger result that might affect them?

i have to do a lot of learning this month

if hard to maintain then it means we shouldn't try to maintain it? we let everything happen naturally, even if we have common goals to accomplish?

[fading plover]

as far as I've found, there isn't a good answer for small organizations like ours- they tend to figure things out and not really discuss how they did so, unless it's like, a startup trying to sell their own mythology (like crypto/AI groups)

for large enterprises they are able to

• provide a lot more extrinsic motivation than they get in output
• search for the talent outright (and still provide a lot of extrinsic motivation anyway)

enterprises like google heavily do the latter, and enterprises like microsoft heavily do the former, but of course they have a Lot of resources, so it's not a superb comparison
it's hard to come by documentation for projects of our scale, because the closest examples come out of the open source movement and often don't have their project management structures documented, if they even have one

that said, we might could study the early wikimedia foundation, or the linux foundation
the former is especially well documented i believe

@strange coral, would you happen to know of any documentation of Wikipedia's early years, especially as it relates to project management / work tracking?
basically, how did they organize when they had little in the way of financial resources?

i will ask one of my coworkers as well- one i know of worked at the foundation, I believe in 2009-2015?

[sleek galleon]

early wikimedia and linux foundation sound similar to us. if u figure out what is the recipe or model, i am desperately looking for it, so i can support everyone and for my efforts to not backfire and harm my friends and major contributors to toki pona. what would you conclude and do if in my shoes?

[strange coral]

They were never particularly broke. They were a passion project of an NSFW search engine. They started by using UseModWiki. I forget if Magnus Manske and Lee Daniel Crocker were paid staff or volunteers, but if they were paid, I think it would have been just them, everything else volunteer. Things were mostly coordinated on a single mailing list, plus some on-wiki discussion. Jimbo spun off the Wikimedia Foundation in 2003. Based on https://static-bugzilla.wikimedia.org/bug1.html, it looks like they started using Bugzilla in 2004 and stuck with that till 2014, when they switched to Phabricator.

Brooke Vibber (seen in bug 1 above pre-transition) is an Esperantist and I've chatted briefly with her about toki pona before. If you can rephrase this question a bit more concretely, I could reach out to her over Mastodon for insights.

[fading plover]

the bulk of the question is about project management and motivation/organization at the social level
let me see if i can word that question better

[strange coral]

fun fact: the [[Talk:Toki Pona]] archives have an IRC log dump where Tim Starling, who alongside the three people I mentioned above is probably the other biggest name in early MediaWiki development, chats with Sonja about how many speakers there are

[fading plover]

in the early wikimedia foundation, how were people motivated to get work done? was it entirely for the mission of the foundation and motivation came from that, or was there any specific effort to motivate / organize beyond just that, or?
if a specific need came up, were there ever instances where nobody in particular wanted to address that need due to lack of interest/motivation?

[strange coral]

(back later; if i forget about this feel free to ping)

[fading plover]

i have something of a pre-existing expectation that the mission itself is a lot of where the motivation comes from
stackoverflow's community is a lot like this, and i imagine that this is a lot of where current wikipedians draw their motivation from
it's very similar to this community being intrinsically motivated by their interest in and excitement about toki pona
(though i've noted before that there's a crossover point where somebody goes from being interested by the language to being interested by something with the language as a vehicle, like art or events or friends)

[sleek galleon]

mun o ping me here or anywhere when you later see a solution i can learn from

[fading plover]

absolutely

i am going to respond to your prior message tonight as well

(i am actively at a laptop to do this ehe)

[sleek galleon]

i have to serve 19 different types of people who need totally different things, and when i make mistakes, people and toki pona itself can get hurt

but i can learn this new skill once we figure out what it is

[fading plover]

@sleek galleon
i ended up writing quite a lot more than expected. feel free to take your time reading.
my thoughts are organized into 5 sections, 4 specific points and a summary, to hopefully make it easier to read. it's got an informal tone, but i hope it can help or at least you can pull some ideas from it. and feel free to ask me any questions you have too.

[warm valley]

oops

[carmine quarry]

its a skill issue on my part, i didnt figure out a nice string slicing technique that didnt also remove the >>

if anyone knows one feel free

(yes i tried ::after, it gets removed by the css overflow stuff as well. maybe if some trickery is done for element nesting it might work)

oh duh, the right approach would be to set overflow string to "...>>"

lol

[heady vigil]

toki mute a li kama

[twin prism]

Set a reminder in 7 hours from now (<t:1750796466:f>)
View reminders with the reminders command

[hasty quarry]

been deep diving early toki pona; here's a fun fact:
jan Tobiah li kalama e kalama musi pi nimi "toki pona li toki pona". lipu Lapo li jo e ona li toki e ni: ona li tan tenpo 2013.
taso, jan Pije li toki e kalama ni lon tenpo 2004 a! kin la, sina jo e lipu open pi kalama ni tan lipu pi jan Pije la, lipu li toki e ni: ante pi kalama ni li pini lon tenpo October 4th 2002! (its also mentioned on the yahoo group in November 2002). This would make it the earliest work currently in Lapo with a known date.

well, jSonja's "Dark Teenage Poetry" definitely predates it but poki Lapo has their date wrong too.. much to fix.. Later...

[nova gale]

live laugh love jan Sonja's "Dark Teenage Poetry"

[twin prism]

Reminder for @heady vigil

Reminder from YAGPDB

o toki tawa kulupu

[twilit haven]

jan Juwan o lukin a!

[hasty quarry]

thoughts on using Weblate to handle adding translations? We should be able to use it for free since we're open source (for up to 160k strings, which is plenty)

or like Crowdin or POEditor or whatever alternative. I have no experience using any of these so I have no take or preference, but we should probably have a better solution than requiring translators to use git

[carmine quarry]

Linku uses Crowdin, so we already have some experience with it; i prefer weblate

my dream is a community-scope weblate instance we can reuse acrooss several projects

@vague coral sina awen jo e ilo poki la sina pilin seme tawa wile ni

[vague coral]

-a mi kama sona e wile · ken a,,

[carmine quarry]

it might be worth learning (a) how taxing a weblate instance would be, (b) whether we can start with the free plan and later easily jump ship if needed

[vague coral]

Weblate should run on any contemporary hardware without problems, the following is the minimal configuration required to run Weblate on a single host (Weblate, database and web server):

• 3 GB of RAM
• 2 CPU cores
• 1 GB of storage space
  https://docs.weblate.org/en/latest/admin/install/docker.html
  poki mi li jo e ma sona tu e ilo nanpa wan 🤔

[nova gale]

I can provide a vm for this

[hasty quarry]

which of these formats feels more intuitive for providing UI translations?

adaptations = .title = Adaptations
              .header = Adapted works ({$count})
adaptation-summary = 
                    { $count ->
                       [one]   {$link} ({$count} adaptation)
                      *[other] {$link} ({$count} adaptations)
                    }
                  .link-text = 
                    { COUNT($authors) ->
                       [0]     {$name}
                      *[other] {$name} by {LIST($authors, separator: " and ")}
                    }
``` or

'adaptations.title': "Adaptations",
'adaptations.header(count)': "Adapted works ({count})",
'adaptationsummary.link(name, count, credits)': "{name}{credits}",
'adaptationsummary.credits(authors)': " by {authors between=' and '}",
'adaptationsummary.afterlink_one(name, count, authors)': " ({count} adaptation)",
'adaptationsummary.afterlink_other(name, count, authors)': " ({count} adaptations)",

the toki pona version would look like

adaptations = .title = toki tan lipu ante
              .header = lipu {$count} ni li tan pi lipu pi toki pona:
adaptation-summary = {$link} li tan pi toki {$count}
                  .link-text = 
                    { LEN($authors) ->
                      [0]     {$name}
                     *[other] {$name} tan {LIST($authors, separator: " tan ")}
                    }
``` or

'adaptations.title': "toki tan lipu ante",
'adaptations.header(count)': "lipu {count} ni li tan pi lipu pi toki pona:",
'adaptationsummary.link(name, count, credits)': "{name}{credits}",
'adaptationsummary.credits(authors)': " tan {authors between=' tan '}",
'adaptationsummary.afterlink(name, count, authors)': " li tan pi toki {count}",

personally i feel like the first version is more explicit about what's happening (sans it obscuring which variables are allowed), but the latter doesnt require translators to worry about programmery syntax. (the key = value and 'key': "value" syntax parts would be hidden by weblate, so a translator just edits the values.)

[carmine quarry]

i like flat

nested is what we were doing on sona Linku and it sucks big time

[hasty quarry]

wdym by nested?

[carmine quarry]

option 1

[hasty quarry]

mm, i'd have thought it'd be nice having the closely related texts combined in one. but its not like needed for that option, i more care about the handling of variations.

what do u think of

adaptations-title  = Adaptations
adaptations-header = Adapted works ({$count})
adaptation-summary = { $count ->
                       [one]   {$link} ({$count} adaptation)
                      *[other] {$link} ({$count} adaptations)
                     }
adaptation-summary-link-text = 
                    { COUNT($authors) ->
                       [0]     {$name}
                      *[other] {$name} by {LIST($authors, separator: " and ")}
                    }

vs the second option?

[carmine quarry]

well in our case we used toml not this format (what is this format btw?), but still ye

[hasty quarry]

first is fluent ||which seems rlly powerful but maybe a little over-engineered|| and second is the current custom format plus plural handling a la i18next

[carmine quarry]

would weblate support custom formats?

i would assume not?

[hasty quarry]

it'd b pretty simple for me to turn it into proper i18next (just doubling the {}s and changing the between='...' to , between('...')) or other equivalent things.. weblate supports like 100 different formats that do the same thing in the sameish ways

[carmine quarry]

this sounds like the way to go, then

over-engineered is likely going to be pose a barrier to contributors translating

[carmine quarry]

re:

mm, i'd have thought it'd be nice having the closely related texts combined in one
a flat hierarchy has the benefit of already doing that in the json file (assuming its sorted alphabetically), without the downside of having to write and maintain a schema

sona Linku has been in a bit of a hell because of schema+i18n-related catch 22s

[hasty quarry]

i'm assuming translators wouldnt be editing the json directly tho. i think weblate has some ways to display related translations tho maybe

[carmine quarry]

ye but the same sorting argument applies

[hasty quarry]

mm tru

[carmine quarry]

i was thinking more from a dev perspective

[warm valley]

btw, sorry for the trouble but, can someone approve my pull requests?(and preferrably correct the typo in the title of lipu lili nanpa san) thanks!

[nova gale]

ken

which ones were the correct ones?

(@warm valley)

[warm valley]

the most correct lipu lili nanpa san is the latest one (#140)

but the title is still wrong

mispelled kama as kam

[nova gale]

alright. fixing the title and merging 👍

[warm valley]

thanks!

[nova gale]

how about #136, #137 and #138?

[warm valley]

yeah those as well

while were here after you approve it I'm gonna update the .yaml file for mije sama meli sama to add nanpa san

[nova gale]

btw why did you remove the licenses?

[warm valley]

translation of a work that needs author permission to share [at the very least volume exclusive and paid content]

[nova gale]

Alright 👍

(i just needed that for the merge commit description)

[warm valley]

https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/141

heres the edit for the mije sama meli sama collection file

[nova gale]

on it

[warm valley]

Thank you!

[nova gale]

btw i could try to change up our github labels for poki as they are just the defaults right now and they aren't really fit for us as poki is not a codebase per say. my proposition would be:

• problem (for actual problems)
• source (for the source issues)
• submissions (for submitions form /add on lipu)
• addition (for new entries)
• fix (for, well, fixes to pre-existing files)
  this would make managing, and in the future, searching trough PRs and issues. sounds OK?

[warm valley]

sorry to bother you again but i only now realized that nanpa sans title was also missing an exclamation point😭
https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/142

[nova gale]

np, i'll check it out

[warm valley]

thanks!

[nova gale]

no worries

[nova gale]

1984

kulupu lawa: mi pona.
jan Winston: sina ike.
[kulupu lawa li pakala e jan Winston.]
jan Winston: sina pona!

inspiring

[nova gale]

i added a custom 404 page

[carmine quarry]

i would recommend drawing a fresh image to avoid any copyright questions
(never mind that we're distributing material thats half questionable copyright, but ya know. dont wanna grow that problem)

[nova gale]

copyright questions
i think this is kulupu Lapo's least concern when it comes to copyright lol :D, also this work is clearly a parody of the original meme and so, (at least when it comes to finnish copyright law (don't know about other countries)) is completely fine

[carmine quarry]

i also just dont want us to borrow meme elements that might be assigned different associations with communities by people of different backgrounds

[nova gale]

oh wait is doge bad?

[carmine quarry]

that might be a bit "no fun allowed" so youre free to override me on that

[carmine quarry]

this is cheemz which i think hasnt been ruined, but the original doge image has been appropriated by right wingers, ye

[nova gale]

yea i thought so too...

we need a "is this a dog whistle" site

[carmine quarry]

(for doge see also crypto and musk's 2025 govt job)

[nova gale]

yea i knew about those two, just tought that this one was fine

[carmine quarry]

it probably is, im just overly cautious

[nova gale]

ill add a "dm me at [email protected] if/when this too becomes a dog whistle and i need to take it down" button

[carmine quarry]

lol

[nova gale]

:D

done

[heady vigil]

too silly 😭

[warm valley]

make a version with the kijetesantakalu glyph

[vestal herald]

.n bonk

[wide sparrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/340307145373253642/775522992284237824/unknown.png

5c29d6 bonk

[nova gale]

we need a version of soweli bonking kijetesantakalu, but for now, i think this wan is ok

i'll update it tomorrow

[twilit haven]

I would prefer it being a freely licensed image. No fair-use nonsense. (I think fair-use is what you're going for here)

Fair-use sucks. Because it's copyrighted. It's nice that there's a way to use copyrighted material, but I still don't like using it. Wikipedia, for example, couldn't have this image on their website. I would prefer you update that license at the bottom to include any images too! Not just the source code, which is just the text.

I hate copyright, as you might be able to tell.

What's the point of creative commons attribution non-derivative non-commercial if it limits creativity by so much. non-derivative doesn't mean "don't edit this image to use it for a hateful purpose" it means "don't edit this image at all in any way". It's dumb. Also Wikipedia doesn't allow non-commercial. So fuck that shit too. I don't like the license of lipamanka's "Semantic Spaces Dictionary". Why did you make this dictionary then?

[carmine quarry]

if you dont like it dont use it

[twilit haven]

Don't ping me.

[cosmic kelp]

non derivative doesn’t mean that
ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.

that’s the closest i found to non derivative but the license in your screenshot doesn’t have anything ressembling what you are talking about

it expressly states that you can edit the content

non commercial can indeed create some burden and is why this specific creative commons license isn’t considered free (libre) software

what you are talkking about is CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

which indeed adds this clause:

NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material.

but that’s not what lipamanka uses

in fact i’ve never seen anyone use that and i agree that it’s too restrictive

in some cases it can be understood though i guess. for very personal things maybe
or like for scientific papers maybe

anyways it’s out of the scope of this thread and i’m not knowledgeable on the matter so do provide me direct evidence but it seems that non free content can indeed be used on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria

and wikipedia is a non profit no?

Wikipedia has been hosted since 2003 by the Wikimedia Foundation, an American nonprofit organization funded mainly by donations from readers.

yeah

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:CC-BY-SA-4.0

it’s true that there is no CC-BY-NC-SA category as far as i can see

i found that

Works distributed under the Creative Commons Non-Commercial license are not compatible with many open-content sites, including Wikipedia, which explicitly allow and encourage some commercial uses.
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_NonCommercial_license#Commentary

and in any case there is fair use which greatly limits ND

[nova gale]

as i said,

1. some silly meme on a 404 page is the least of kulupu Lapo's concerns when it comes to copyright. 38.2% of works in poki Lapo are technically against copyright. (see #1252224729977327647 message)
2. I am not sure what it's called in the english speaking world, but at least in Finland it's protected free speech under the constitution.
3. I don't like intellectual property either.
4. Memes are a weird format overall. How would you prove you are the rights holder when it comes to, for example the bonk meme? Afaik they are considered public domain in most juristictions if no one can claim ownership.

[fierce gull]

o sona e ni: jan Sepo li wile ala e mu!

[nova gale]

oh, my bad. sorry!

[fierce gull]

ken la sina pana sin e toki kepeken ala mu la sina weka e toki nanpa wan la ilo Siko li weka e mu ike

[cosmic kelp]

ni la ilo Siko li weka ala e mu

mu li kama kon mu

[fierce gull]

a, ike

a! mi sona e ni: jan Sepo la toki mu li ike tan kule ike ona

[nova gale]

I was thinking of moving the main nav over the logo. this looks a lot better than the current stacked menus if you as me and would also make more sense if you look at the overall hierarchy (pona.la -> lipu Lapo -> different pages on lipu Lapo). @carmine quarry would this be feasible considering the other services using the same template?

[carmine quarry]

ive tried that before when iterating on the design and didn't like it. can we get a third opinion here? @vague coral @heady vigil

[vague coral]

mi la

[nova gale]

(also dont mind the search bar; just testing)

so like

[carmine quarry]

2 : 1, go for it soko Ni o

[heady vigil]

it is nice

go soko

[nova gale]

done

[warm valley]

it's a bit broken on mobile

[nova gale]

oh-

that's weird because it worked on firefox responsive design mode

lol gotta test it on real hardware in the future ig

might i ask: which browser are you using (and are you on iphone)

[carmine quarry]

margin-top: -20px; 😭

its so funny collaborating with people

[nova gale]

it flowed alright on my machine

[carmine quarry]

you find all sorts of weird workflows

[nova gale]

i'll go ifx it

done

[warm valley]

Google Chrome, Android

[nova gale]

btw why is the collection for poki called "blog"

[nova gale]

ok, different browser engine. might explain(?)

[carmine quarry]

standard astro template, never bothered to rename

[warm valley]

also

[carmine quarry]

youre free to change

[nova gale]

what

[warm valley]

it's not just a chrome thing unfortunately (on firefox mobile)

[nova gale]

that's -intriguing

[warm valley]

btw can someone approve pull requests #143-145 (#145 is ❌ because #144 isn't in poki yet)

also why am i the only one that has uploaded anything onto the main library during june😭

[nova gale]

done

anyway i'll go resize some partitions byee

[twilit haven]

I got pinged again. The no ping role doesn't do shit. No one sees it.

[hasty quarry]

Annoyingly, there's no way to fully unify the dev experience for translated text. I need a plain function for translating properties and a component for when the translation interpolates another element/component. eg: (where <Translation> and t() are doing basically the same thing)

<Translation key="input.label(button)">
    <Input slot="button" placeholder={t('input.default')} />
</Translation>

When its just plain text interpolating plain text though, it could go either way. Does anyone have a preference between:

1. Prefer functions

<h2>{t("mypage.title")}</h2>
{data.map( row => (
   <p>{t('mypage.content(title, details)', { title: row.name, details: row.details })}</p>
)}

2. Prefer custom component with variables as attribute

<h2><Translation key="mypage.title" /></h2>
{data.map( row => (
  <p><Translation key="mypage.content(title, details)" vars={{ title: row.name, details: row.details }} /></p>
)}

3. Prefer custom component with variables as children

<h2><Translation key="mypage.title" /></h2>
{data.map( row => (
  <p><Translation key="mypage.content(title, details)">
     <span slot="title">{row.name}</span>
     <span slot="details">{row.details}</span>
  </Translation></p>
)}

imo 1>2>3 for simplicity but 1<2<3 for cohesion with the complex interpolated-element cases

[nova gale]

mi la, 3 > 1 >>> 2

i do not see a world where 2 would be beneficial over 1 and 3

[carmine quarry]

mi la we should be embracing the exact behaviour of a popular i18n dependency rather than deciding for ourselves

[twin prism]

Reminder for @carmine quarry

Reminder from YAGPDB

how is music pr doing

[carmine quarry]

good question past fish

[wraith loom]

what is with the spacing in that message

[carmine quarry]

bad typing

[warm valley]

hello again, sorry for the trouble once again but can someone approve pull requests #146-#152? Sorry for the frequency and quantity of me making these :((( (except for that one that i didn't make)

[nova gale]

no worries, i'll approve them. as you have begin sending in more entries recently, you should probably look into writing them by hand and using one pr to send in multiple ones.

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil @vague coral the music pr is stale, 👍 if you want it merged now and open a new branch later when you do more music work?

[carmine quarry]

@hasty quarry consider https://github.com/yassinedoghri/astro-i18next

[hasty quarry]

saw that, its unmaintained / abandoned tho

[carmine quarry]

ah heck, missed that

shame

[hasty quarry]

their way of doing interpolations feels rlly strange to me too, like it duplicates the english text in an unclear way and it requires the translators to format with html elements but each tag is instead a numeric index into the nested elements. i think it matches the react-18next integration but idk

im not opposed to using a library for this like its probably wise, but afaik there's no obvious well-known & active library for astro. the official docs just describe using the server side middleware and either using entirely seperate files for each distinct translated page or rolling ur own function (which is p trivial for just strings. but i understand ur hesitation when it comes to the more complex component interpolating)

[warm valley]

how could i do it?

also, I make the pull requests as soon as i finish Lasina-ing the sitelen pona from the manga pages which i do either before or as soon as i finish the chapter

so like the only way i could post multiple chapters in one pr would be to make the pr after a certain number of chapters are made

[nova gale]

diy one :DD

[nova gale]

jan Juwan and ijo Kita do it by branching form main (and commiting their entries to said branch), making an issue to track the progress and merging the branch to main after they're ready with all of the works

[warm valley]

i dont think i have permission for that, theres no button for me to make a branch

[boreal meadow]

whats this: Error: Process completed with exit code 1.?

[carmine quarry]

could be anything. whats the executable and is there any traceback

[boreal meadow]

I submitted a pull request a few minutes ago and this is what it says

My computer’s battery shortly after so I didn’t get to really investigate

[carmine quarry]

yeah so the line you read simiply tells you the validation failed. all of the text before that tells you what failed

[boreal meadow]

Oh sorry

I don’t really know github well

[carmine quarry]

what happened is that you changed the indentation in the file's yamls

heres one of the things you edited

and this results in invalid yaml

[boreal meadow]

Ah! That must be because I replaced double spaces with simple ones. I forgot about that part

[carmine quarry]

if you undo indentation changes in the metadata, it should pass

[nova gale]

oh, i forgor :D. in that case, you should fork the repo, edit in on your own account and then PR that over

[boreal meadow]

It works now thank you

[boreal meadow]

would someone please merge #155?

[warm valley]

and while someones at it, can someone approve #153 and #154, thank you

[nova gale]

i'll go look at them

@boreal meadow o, could you fix musi nasa's author? i do not think HP Lovecraft is responsible for translating them to toki pona. author is the person responsible for translating the work(/writing it if it's an original; not relevant for this) and original.author is the author of the original work

[boreal meadow]

all of them have me as the author. Lovecraft's only in the original author thing

[nova gale]

so it seems. it looks like i misread. sorry for the inconvenience. i'll merge the pr

poki's commit history looking like a christmas tree tho 🔥

[warm valley]

:)

[nova gale]

we should probably start rebasing + squashing submissions

perhaps also retroactively

[boreal meadow]

What does that mean?

[heady vigil]

yeah pls

[nova gale]

basically taking all of the commits to a branch, moving them to just be a part of the main branch and squishing them together to a one commit

( @heady vigil @carmine quarry @vague coral )

[heady vigil]

'all'?

oh submissions includes only the ones thru the site, right?

[hasty quarry]

why? personally i cant imagine the history ever looking clean, just by nature of what poki Lapo is

[nova gale]

yes. of course not the bigger prs

[hasty quarry]

a commit per file seems p nice. maybe we could use clearer commit names ig but

[nova gale]

i don't know... if you look at #1252224729977327647 message, the Update mije-*, they could use some squashing

but at least rebasing the commits would be nice

[carmine quarry]

im voting no but i don't care too much

[carmine quarry]

@vague coral @heady vigil decide whether this is barred from poki Lapo, and if so, how youd phrase the policy

i dont have a stake in this so im entirely delegating

[vague coral]

lllawa li ken ala e ni anu seme · lawa pi ma [GitHub] anu lawa pi ma ni lon → ilo pi ma [GitHub] li lon ona

[nova gale]

thaaaats a hard one 😬

[heady vigil]

aa

pali la I am weakly in support to include it
lawa la I am not sure if GitHub allows it

(checking)

[heady vigil]

yeah and apart from this it states that it doesn't allows for any type of sexual content (apart from educational use and similar exceptions)
https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/acceptable-use-policies/

(though we are already breaking copyright law)

[nova gale]

i feel like we fall into eductional, historical or journalistic

[heady vigil]

trur

[nova gale]

(actually, now that i think about it, probably all and the artistc one too)

[boreal meadow]

https://lipu.pona.la/a/jan_Jonatan/ is this jan Jonatan the one who translated John's Gospel?

[nova gale]

who knows

i'll work on a prototype of generating OpenGraph images for the pages

[boreal meadow]

who does \srs

maybe the folk at lipu tenpo

[nova gale]

jan Jonatan sure does

[boreal meadow]

@mystic glen maybe? (He is the only one with that name who seems to have been active near 2022 in ma pona)

[mystic glen]

no, that's a different person, sorry

time to invent surnames /hj

[warm valley]

😭

[hasty quarry]

we have a handful of other sexual works too (mostly from ao3)

relatedly, there's an work on ao3 in toki pona tagged Shotacon (which means sexualisation of young boys), Original Character(s), Short, Toki Pona which isn't in Lapo but would definitely fit

there's also the classic example of Pije's translation of some very racist hate speech (https://web.archive.org/web/20050126142159/http://tokipona.nytka.org:80/text/tokisewi.html) - should this be in Lapo?

im in favour of keeping controversial content who's purpose is to be well a "creative work in Toki Pona". but it probably should have some disclaimer on lipu (eg an agegate for sexual content), maybe we should add a dedicated property for content warnings

gets q sticky tho like obv u have to draw a line, we can't be hosting content that is directly harmful (imagine a doxx). and Pije's one is like clearly abhorrent - but there's definitely historical value in it in how it impacted the early tp community

so ig yeah we gotta come up w a policy at some point

[boreal meadow]

I think this should be included. (I think the archive shouldn’t judge the works included) Though I do think that including some content warnings on especially heavy stuff is a good idea

[nova gale]

what about stuff like ||the aforementioned doxxes, stuff like blatant CSAM, guides on how to make weapons etc.||?

[boreal meadow]

I don’t think we have the freedom of deciding these. I’m pretty certain it is unlawful to include such things isn’t it?

[warm valley]

For me, it's anything that can cause harm to someone(like those except whats a CPS?)) that shouldn't be allowed

oh

I mean, I don't think Onimai can cause harm assuming that was for it

-# ||just to clarify a bit since i feel my reputation in this community declining due to... y'know, i am the same age as most of the characters(15), please no... y'know what... allegations against me:(||

[jagged burrow]

@carmine quarry about to commit the new lipu tenpo & i wanna double-check that i got the branch stuff right
i cloned the repo & made a new branch locally (git switch -c lipu-tenpo-nanpa-supa) before doing my work and commiting the changes. if i git push now, will the remote repo automatically create a new branch called lipu-tenpo-nanpa-supa, or do i have to do that manually somehow?

[boreal meadow]

I am currently in the middle of archiving some other works and a lipu tenpo story came up. Is someone working on adding those atm?

Edit: lipu monsuta

[jagged burrow]

i'm normally the one adding lipu tenpo to poki Lapo

[boreal meadow]

Oh I meant lipu monsuta

[boreal meadow]

Sorry

[carmine quarry]

that sounds right to me

if it doesnt work no harm done

[carmine quarry]

check the readme.md if you want to know whos "claimed" (= said they are or will try to work on) a collection

i remember there is currently some lipu monsuta archived but not all probably??

[boreal meadow]

Yes

[jagged burrow]

a stackoverflow thread suggests git push origin lipu-tenpo-nanpa-supa, i'll try that

(remote and remote branch respectively)

[carmine quarry]

i normally git branch branchname; git commit; git push

but like i might not be remembering everything

[jagged burrow]

this worked!

yayyy

[vague coral]

mi open e pali monsuta lon tenpo weka li anpa · jan wile li ken pali ni

[boreal meadow]

I'm doing jan Ne's fairy tales rn and am wondering wether to upload this one as multiple texts or in a single one (I already added toki musi pi jan sama Kin as a collection of multiple texts): https://jan-ne.github.io/lipu/Esopo ?

[nova gale]

i just read Esopo as Espoo, which is my home city and got quite jumpscared

[boreal meadow]

didn't we just establish that doxxing was prohibited in poki Lapo? \musi

[nova gale]

:DD

just about every toki ponist has already selfdoxxed on ma.pona.la

[boreal meadow]

crap I didn't even think of that

[nova gale]

Buda, Hungary

[boreal meadow]

You dare using my own spells against me, soko?

[nova gale]

:D

o get doxxed

[boreal meadow]

back to toki musi pi jan Esopo though (not Espoo)

[nova gale]

oh yea

i'd publish them separately. @heady vigil en @vague coral o, lon tenpo pini la, kulupu Lapo li pali e ni kepeken nasin seme? (context: #1252224729977327647 message)

[boreal meadow]

for reference I already added musi nasa tan jan Laka and toki musi pi jan sama Kin as sperate files but in a collection

[carmine quarry]

meet at the market square /threat

[nova gale]

so the thing is: espoo is basically four to six different cities merged into one

so do you mean the Tapiola square, the Espoon Keskus square, the Leppävaara square or the Kivenlahti area square

not to forget those on Sello and the countless smaller towns in the Espoo area

[boreal meadow]

Ok I added it in one big file

If anyone thinks it should be separated speak now or forever hold your peace

[heady vigil]

separate them and have a category or however we call them

and also tags

[heady vigil]

boom 💥

[fierce gull]

i hope people don’t think less of you

[boreal meadow]

One moment and I will separate them it shouldn’t take long

[nova gale]

huh. i am a proven C1 in english and this is the first time i have ever seen a sentence like this :D

now i know

[fierce gull]

mi wile e ni:
kulupu li pilin ala e ni: sina ike

[boreal meadow]

ok so turns out there are exactly 31 stories and it'll take some time. I might only finish it tomorrow

[boreal meadow]

done

[carmine quarry]

merged

[carmine quarry]

@boreal meadow this is probably not what you want. have you tried

# markdown heading 1
## markdown heading 2
### markdown heading 3

and so on?

[boreal meadow]

Oh yes. I thought it was the same

Sorry

[carmine quarry]

no worries, just to avoid you having to fix your file several times

[boreal meadow]

I wont be able to correct this for a few days, could you please do it. Thanks in advance

[warm valley]

hello again, can someone merge pr's 163-167? Thank you once again. This is probably the last time (with more than one pr atleast) since misamesa is cancelled.

[nova gale]

i'll do it tomorrow

[boreal meadow]

https://lipu.pona.la/o/The_Little_Prince/
https://lipu.pona.la/o/Antoine_de_Saint-Exupéry/

Could you please approve my pulls too then? and also look at these

why are they different?

[nova gale]

that's nasa

i'll go look at the prs and then probably merge those two

[boreal meadow]

thank you

[nova gale]

done

[hasty quarry]

You got the original title & original authors fields mixed up on 2023/09/jan-lawa-lili. Fixed now (might take a little for the website to update)

[boreal meadow]

oh I'm so stupid for that

thanks

[warm valley]

hey sorry to bother again but could someone merge pr #164 and #168-169? Thanks once again

[hasty quarry]

merged 169, the others were already merged

[warm valley]

huh, ok, thanks!

[hasty quarry]

we should make a way to group adaptation sources or indicate that something is only adapting one part of a work

[boreal meadow]

Yeah. This is especially bad with toki musi pi jan Esopo

31 adaptations, but it's also one collection of stories

[nova gale]

i merget #168 and #164. it looks like i didn't see #169 (nice btw)

[boreal meadow]

IIRC there were suggestions (and maybe even some code written) for sorting by popularity and word count in both authors and works. What happened to those?

I think that would somewhat compensate for the lack of a search function

#1252224729977327647 message

And this (I think) #1252224729977327647 message

[hasty quarry]

for word count that was some unpolished code I wrote, I lost motivation when I realised we'd want a way to pick what we're sorting by (word count, post count, alphabetical, etc) which would need an extra system. probably not that hard to do but

i'll try finish up the word count thing in a couple of weeks when i can focus on Lapo again [if anyone else wants to take it up instead, I was just using mun Kekan San's sona-tokj]

for sorting by popularity idk if that was ever discussed. you can see the analytics here: https://lipu-pona-la.goatcounter.com/. (note that this doesn't count visits from people with adblockers/anti-tracking extensions, etc)
it'd be hard to automatically keep the stats up to date & idk how useful it would be since so few pages have a significant viewcount + higher views seems to just correlate w being linked to here.
but its a cool idea & might b a useful thing to have as an option

[boreal meadow]

I see. Thanks

[boreal meadow]

How would we go about texts that have "multiple versions". So like I'm working on correcting the mistakes in an older work. Would that revised version have its own article?

[carmine quarry]

its kind of use your own judgement. if theres perceived value in preserving the older version, go for it. most of the time, if its just the same person making minor tweaks to their own text, there isn't. but sometimes it might be, e.g., someone making extensive edits to someone else's work several years down the line. in that case its worth having both versions

if you choose to always preserve every edit, what you end up is a wiki, and lapo isn't one

[boreal meadow]

In this case the situation is closer to the latter so once done, I will add a new article for that, thanks

[heady vigil]

@carmine quarry could I ask for that spreadsheet of the missing songs on Lapo

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil

its actually increased since last time i ran it, cause new videos get added to the playlist

[heady vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/mimi-typh-cute-dog-dizzy-gif-10734057453982203417

[boreal meadow]

What is our stance on including TTRPGs?

And other games

[heady vigil]

games are out of scope

[carmine quarry]

game scripts, in the playwright sense of the word, are within scope; everything else not really

[boreal meadow]

no rulebooks

Okay, I thought so

[vague coral]

taso,, https://lipu.pona.la/2020/10/musi-pi-jan-lawa-moli/

[fierce gull]

taso seme li suli tawa poki Lapo?

mi wile sona

[carmine quarry]

written creative works in toki pona

[fierce gull]

a pona, wawa

la lipu sona li ni ala ni?

[carmine quarry]

okay specifying: written creative works in toki pona (that are not continuously updated)

so wikipesija no, lipu sona pi lipu tenpo yes

[fierce gull]

la ken la lipu pi lawa musi li ken ni

[boreal meadow]

So what’s the verdict?

lipu lawa pi nasin musi li ken ala ken lon poki Lapo?

[boreal meadow]

sama ni

[fierce gull]

ona li lipu sona anu seme

[carmine quarry]

that specific page was a blog post by a specific person and it does not receive updates

its not like, a definitive wording of the rules of chess or anythign

[boreal meadow]

I see

[nova gale]

mi la, ni li creative

[uneven star]

THE DEAD KING