poki Lapo: Toki Pona library

[carmine quarry]

in that case theres no downside to committing straight to main immediately

[fading plover]

you can just merge whenever you want and as many times as you want
the default behavior deletes the branch you merge from but doesn't have to
so, do a little work, merge it, repeat

[carmine quarry]

oh except ci i suppose, we'll get occasional ❌s in main

[fading plover]

that's not the worst thing imo

like, that is the purpose of the ci

[carmine quarry]

i tend to use it to verify before merging

[scenic river]

empty nodes are valid in yaml
https://yaml.org/spec/1.2.2/#72-empty-nodes

[heady vigil]

wawa

how do you merge without deleting it

that's what I was wondering

[carmine quarry]

rebasing i suppose?

[fading plover]

https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/configuring-branches-and-merges-in-your-repository/configuring-pull-request-merges/managing-the-automatic-deletion-of-branches

or sidestepping github entirely when merging

[heady vigil]

waow

[fading plover]

this is so cursed. i never knew this
so yaml functionally has 3 variations of null? whyyyyy

[carmine quarry]

insert the trinity diagram

[heady vigil]

skjdksh

sewi li sewi ante li sewi sama ala

[fading plover]

poki pi jan amonsijato has an Unknown date despite being in the 2023-05 folders
that's a validation case i don't think we can fix tho

[carmine quarry]

ill also note that our file naming convention is kinda fucked

transcribers are going with horribly long filenames

[fading plover]

i was gonna ask about that too actually
what do you do if there are 2+ stories with the same name in the same month

[carmine quarry]

which mildly defeats the purpose of the yyyy/mm/ prefix imo in readability

[heady vigil]

fuck you 1000 bytes inside the filename

[fading plover]

windows 11 users found dead

[carmine quarry]

filenames should theoretically be stable but rn i can't promise that

[carmine quarry]

United States v. Article Consisting of 50,000 Cardboard Boxes More or Less, Each Containing One Pair of Clacker Balls

except its every single file link for us

[fading plover]

what the fuck even is this lmao

[heady vigil]

that's not even the longest Wikipedia article title smh

[carmine quarry]

ik that

its the funniest

[fading plover]

this article names a case with an even funnier name

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Approximately_64,695_Pounds_of_Shark_Fins

the combination of "approximately" with a number declared with 5 significant digits down to its ones place is transcendental

[carmine quarry]

yep

[heady vigil]

sobbing

[heady vigil]

@carmine quarry o ni anu semer

no clue what to do with this
https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/18

[carmine quarry]

sure if you want to

[carmine quarry]

what about it

[heady vigil]

if I merge will it delete the branch :(

[carmine quarry]

..youve just told me to make it delete the branch on merge

so yes

[heady vigil]

I did not ?

I asked for the opposite

unless I spoke toki pakala instead of toki . pona

[carmine quarry]

well it was already off

making it off again

[heady vigil]

alr

[fading plover]

question:
if a doc is translated, do you set authors with the same list as translators, or are they intended to be mutually exclusive

[carmine quarry]

personally i would not distinguish authors and translators but someone already started to

oh right for like books and stuff

idk

[fading plover]

yeah it's a valid distinction

[carmine quarry]

do you set authors with the same list as translators
wdym by that

[fading plover]

normally authors is entirely required, as far as existing metadata is concerned
but if translators is set, sometimes authors is not

i translated the man car hook hand car door story and it has no authors listed
i am not the author but the authors field is required
so should authors field be made optional, or should translators be duplicated to authors

tbh i don't think it's accurate to duplicate them
so authors would have to become optional

well, more exactly, one of authors or translators must be defined

[carmine quarry]

@fading plover want perms in kulupu-lapo btw?

[fading plover]

oh that would be epic yes

[carmine quarry]

invite clickable here

[fading plover]

wtf is going on with the date in toki pi kon pona
it's in 2021/05 but dated 2021/12
but that 2nd date is only an updated date, not a publish date

[heady vigil]

btw pushed

enjoy your lipu

for a lot of very early toki pona for some reason

[fading plover]

notes: originally in ucsur sitelen pona, but saved in plaintext for Lapo
note under my jan mun publication

neither the utala mun publication nor mine on mun.la uses UCSUR. it is in sitelen pona via a ligature font.
contributors need to be aware of the difference between UCSUR and ligature fonts

[fading plover]

down from 8,000 lines of errors to 283 lines of errors

[fading plover]

errors banished but some files have formatting changes that were not intended
this is how i find out my diff viewer hides certain kinds of changes

anyway pr opened about it

[carmine quarry]

merged

[nova gale]

Oookay so two good and two bad things related to lukin/nasin ilo
+The test setup worked and was online and healthy for about 48 hours, but I forgor to tell about it here
-The server just went down
-I cannot go check on it, because it is about 1350 km south from where i am right now and my kvm is hosted on the same computer lol
+I am gonna publish the code for them in the near future

[carmine quarry]

awesome to know theres progress happening

[carmine quarry]

@fading plover your merged pr fails ci btw lmao

[fading plover]

bruh moment, aha'

oh all the failures are in new files and there are only 3 of them

[nova gale]

I really should hve written this in go lol

[fading plover]

ERROR: Permission to kulupu-lapo/poki.git denied to gregdan3.

[nocturne compass]

mwahahahhahahhhahaha I have infiltrated the systems
now I am kekan San, with all his perms
and he is... well
/j

[fading plover]

[mu PAKALAA]

[fading plover]

absurd discovery:
the frontmatter parsing library i'm using will automatically load keys named date as datetime.date if they are unquoted strings

i get this is mimicking normal yaml parsing where 1 is an int and "1" is a string, but respectfully, what the fuck do you mean

[fading plover]

ilo muni now supports poki lapo

if you commit frontmatter crime, i will find you.

maybe i should not count this

or this perhaps

[heady vigil]

I don't know, I think you should

[fading plover]

the problem is that these blocks of text are fundamentally different from the rest of the data in ilo muni
first, these are long form media; almost everything else is conversational
second, these specific instances i'm pointing out are specific artistic expressions rather than more apt demonstrations of how language is being used
if i were to generate a graph with these datapoints included, you would see a huge spike in the counts for these words on specific months
and for the rest of the data, that would reasonably mean something happened that month which affected the way the community was using toki pona, like something new to talk about
but here, it doesn't- it reflects a single author's specific artistic expression
that form of misleading presentation is something i want to avoid, since ilo muni is otherwise not able to provide more context

in the case of the example from nasi, the 2nd, i'd liken this to counting every instance of "Click here to log in" once for every webpage it appeared on for the purpose of an english version of ilo muni, because they appeared in the user interface on every page of a website you downloaded
that's an example of language, but it isn't one that's useful to the end of understanding how the language is used- at least, not more than if you counted it a single time.

[heady vigil]

pok i

o kasi ala e mi

mi wawa

[carmine quarry]

i should upload my song translations to poki Lapo tbh

[heady vigil]

you should

do it

[swift imp]

uuuuuuuuuugggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I have to upload stuff

I don't understand any of þis

[carmine quarry]

fixed invalid files on main

unfortunately this involves making uncertain predictions about who was the author of texts from 2003

especially with page history being suppressed, presumably due to dead names

[heady vigil]

@devs can you all make a little page for how to contribute,,,,, with links to guides

how to Git

@carmine quarry 🥺

[carmine quarry]

doesn't @swift imp already have experience with git from committing to (sona) linku?

i agree people need to get tutorials but i don't have a good introduction to give

[carmine quarry]

@jagged burrow i have committed lipu tenpo nanpa loje

if i did any metadata in a way thats inconsistent with yours feel free to change it

[carmine quarry]

adding items to the library is simultaneously so much easier now that we have a lot, and still such a pain

ksldjfghsdfl i open 2024/08/ to see if anything is gonna clash with utala musi 2024

theres a fuckin decked out fanfic

this community is something else

[heady vigil]

wow

link?

[carmine quarry]

plaintext/2024/08/kiwen-loje-en-kasi-tawa.md

poki Lapo: the plaintext library

texts that need to be put into poki Lapo:

fuck

[heady vigil]

unpa lapo??

[heady vigil]

kule

[cosmic kelp]

it is plaintext though

[heady vigil]

sure

transcription DOES COME with some loss in information

sadly

[cosmic kelp]

oh kala Asi means the color my bad

hack: https://stackoverflow.com/a/73613687

specifically ${\textsf{\color{lightgreen}Green}}$

[carmine quarry]

we're not targeting githubs md renderer

[cosmic kelp]

it should render in many md renderers

[carmine quarry]

in fact i suppose we're not targeting anything in particular for now, until soko Ni puts together a frontend

at that point we'll have to start going through every file and fixing anything that looks odd i suppose lmao

is toki musi pata one work or four works

[heady vigil]

4 maybe,,,

[carmine quarry]

as someone who reads only a very small percentage of the literature this community produces

i did not expect one of the utala musi 2024 submissions to be a @fading plover fanfiction?

i guess i should know better

[heady vigil]

What

people joked about that

can't believe someone did it actually

[carmine quarry]

one of the submissions is a text adventur

i cant

[heady vigil]

💥

[carmine quarry]

it runs javascript to function properly

yep

fuck that, im not figuring it out

[heady vigil]

:(

[carmine quarry]

its something to revisit when we have a frontend that we can actually test against

[heady vigil]

backlog then

ye

[cosmic kelp]

do you guys plan on making a frontend from scratch or use smt like hugo or jekyll or whatever

[carmine quarry]

up to soko Ni

[heady vigil]

ask @nova gale

[carmine quarry]

@shut flume utala (2024) has been added to the library

[heady vigil]

yappie

[fading plover]

oh yes, it's SO good
lakuse sent it to me as soon as submissions went live

[nova gale]

I actually have a working flat markdown cms and api

its just that the frontend is missing lol

[cosmic kelp]

what kind of markdown flavor

[swift imp]

Idk if I need to do þe same þing and like if I do were do I put stuff I don’t understand

[carmine quarry]

okay tldr. every work is a markdown file. every markdown file consists of metadata at the top, and text at the bottom. the template for metadata is written in the readme. if the work is part of a series of works (usually by different authors), make a collection file, which is basically a title and a list of md file paths. once youre done, make a pr, get a ✅, and we will merge

i recommend you start just by cloning the repo and looking at files

[swift imp]

What do you do wiþ images

Do you just transcribe it?

Also idk how to make a collection file

Oh wait maybe I do

[carmine quarry]

we include a link to it but our primary purpose is archiving text

[swift imp]

What about like a dialog

actually nvm

[carmine quarry]

if @exotic ivy makes one for linku, we can reuse the tech for lapo

[swift imp]

Why is þere no folder for 2025

[carmine quarry]

no works created in 2025 have been uploaded yet

[swift imp]

I have one

Should I like put it in Dec 2024

[carmine quarry]

if a folder doesnt exist and it needs to exist, you make it

[swift imp]

OKi

[swift imp]

It can be uscur text, right?

[carmine quarry]

latin plaintext only

if you encoutner ucsur convert to latin

[swift imp]

okii

[swift imp]

uh

how do you make an md file

[cosmic kelp]

just like any regular text file

you need a text editor

textedit on macos and notepad on windows

[swift imp]

And þat's it?

[cosmic kelp]

yep it’s just a text file with the md extension

[swift imp]

How do I add þat

[cosmic kelp]

what’s special about it is just how the text is written

[cosmic kelp]

i’m not sure about the specifics (depends on your software) but in any case you should be able to save it as .txt then edit that extension

[swift imp]

okay

sina pona

[carmine quarry]

file extensions are simply a part of the file name that signifies what programmes should access this file. you can edit an extension in exactly the same way as you can edit the file name

[swift imp]

I made a pr

let's see if I did it correcttly

It seems to be good

[carmine quarry]

i merged it

[swift imp]

I saw

[carmine quarry]

the only weird thing was that you called the folder 1 instead of 01 but like ye whatever i fixed that in a separate commit

[swift imp]

pog

shit I forgor to make þe uh kalama musi collection file

[carmine quarry]

btw you use the web editor to change files

i highly recommend learning the download (pull) -> edit locally -> upload (push) approach instead

[swift imp]

alright

[vague coral]

mi pali tawa utala la mi sona ala e ni → mi ken sitelen [pona] e pali mi · jan ante li pali tawa utala la ni ↑ · wawa ale

-# tenpo seme la sike nanpa WAMMMLLLTAMMMLLLW pi toki [pona] li kama,,

utala kama la mi o nasa wawa o pakala ale e poki [Lapo] :3

[vestal herald]

Incorrect - the story was written to function if no JS is activated
there are anchors to jump to sections, and a print version includes the section numbering instead

(It was my intention to make it a static PDF eventually, but I'm not satisfied with a format that wastes so much page space so far or breaks colums weirdly across pages)

if you want to combine those features with the Latin version, some slight CSS modification would be needed

the 3rd place winner that year might be trickier in comparison because it's an image

[heady vigil]

I was writing Lapo in my notes and rebus-ed this glyph up (left)

[carmine quarry]

the first one is when minecraft bed emoji

[heady vigil]

[nova gale]

i kinda much like the left one lol

[heady vigil]

that's the serious one

and the left one is the silly scribble

[carmine quarry]

ur a silly scribble

[heady vigil]

I am

I wonder, is there any way to format the files well

prettifier for the files :>

[heady vigil]

librarby #2

I wonder how to deal with this
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1csNDqOs_yRFZWo_tninZLiS0jf-QO8tb/edit

two of them

[heady vigil]

I found something similar
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19cxM0qKPf740SQUbqtBFC91mmaBRvvzjEmqcROA0jFI/edit?tab=t.0

how did you end up dealing with the colours?

@carmine quarry

sobbing

[heady vigil]

can someone that knows Japanese help with this one
https://soundcloud.com/kikiss-2/ma-sike-laso-kalama-mun?in=wj4278%2Fsets%2Ftoki-pona-music

[heady vigil]

got my first title conflict, had to add the author name to one of them

[vestal herald]

sina pilin seme?
kulupu pi soweli nimi tokyo usagi music
kulupu pi soweli ken kalama
soweli moku loje kili suwi
mun li sike
mun li musi
mun li walo
mun li pimeja
wan tu wan tu wan
wan tu wan tu wan tu mute
lape pona
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbGOV8hM3e0

[heady vigil]

another one in the list of 'how do I deal with this'

[wraith loom]

Wouse MD

[heady vigil]

how am I supposed to do subtitles with Markdown

[jagged burrow]

ken la o wan e nimi suli e nimi suli lili

# lipu Nasino Sijokapi: toki pi lipu...

a nasin Markdown la nimi suli mute li ken a . nasin YAML a la o wan

[heady vigil]

ni li sama alaaa

[jagged burrow]

li poka a

[heady vigil]

pkoa ala

[jagged burrow]

toki tu li ken ala la toki wan li poka pona

[shut flume]

to be fair everythinh about this piece flies in the face of copyright

[heady vigil]

we know

this is the copyright violation machine

[stoic canyon]

toki a. mi jan pi ilo nanpa la mi wile pona e poki Lapo la, mi toki tawa jan seme mi pali e seme

[jagged burrow]

sina wile poki Lapo e lipu e toki la o pana pi nasin Git · sona lipu o lon open lipu o lon nasin YAML
sina wile pali ilo la o alasa e sona tan lawa Asi tan soko Ni pi pali ilo

[stoic canyon]

mi wile pali ilo. mi ken toki tawa jan ni. sina pona

[carmine quarry]

okay tldr if you want to help with the frontend please first check up with @nova gale whos done a lot of work already but hasnt made it public yet, i dont want you to accidentally duplicate the work

if you want to help with something else lemme know

[stoic canyon]

Got it. Thanks!

[heady vigil]

thank u for helping in advance :)

[mossy lagoon]

toki

any news from this project?

[carmine quarry]

we have collected a bunch of "good" publications that are well organised. we have not touched songs. at some point we will want to collect loose works, but this is probably in the future.

soko Ni has done work on the frontend and the api, but its not public yet. a lot of future expansion will likely come after that

mun Kekan San either wants to or has already hooked up Lapo to Muni, so we have a user

[fading plover]

i have done so! i believe it's in the current release too, but uh, I forget lol
it certainly will be in the next if not already

[heady vigil]

we have not touched songs.
wrong
at some point we will want to collect loose works, but this is probably in the future.
I have

blasts @carmine quarry with my laser beam

[carmine quarry]

good we have more progress than i am aware of

still, songs haven't progressed far enough to a point where we can say more of them are in

[heady vigil]

these two points, I have actually done this for obscure(r) places of the internet where I fear I will forget to come back to

and I just, throw them in with the rest, the toki pona library branch has a lot of these

[jagged burrow]

i've collected some texts from personal websites and keep track of them here https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/issues/17

[heady vigil]

yayy

[nova gale]

Info on lukin and nasin ilo:

• lukin is still pakala mute
• nasin
  • will be published to Github <t:1740347940:R>
  • will be online <t:1740866340:R>
• @stoic canyon will be joining the developement ❤️

[carmine quarry]

wawa pona

[heady vigil]

wawaaa

[nova gale]

by the way, what is our consensus on genAI content? are genAI images ok? what about things that have been co-operatively written by genAI and human?

[heady vigil]

images, sure
text, only coop?

[nova gale]

i think we should implement a computer readable system for flagging these (in accessibility-notes?)

[heady vigil]

maybe?

do you want like, a tag maybe

[nova gale]

that would be good too

[heady vigil]

tags can work well if you want to warn that [this article has AI images]

[nova gale]

actually probably better than accessibility

[heady vigil]

same for other CWs

it's easier because they are more contained

search for tags, see if matches bad list, if so send warning to user

it's kinda bad that most of the entries don't have tags set up I think..

I've tried to do so with some like adding what medium (song, poetry) and genre (e.g. electronic music)

[nova gale]

on the other hand, tags are meant to be used for filtering and stuff

[heady vigil]

why not both

they can be used for lots of stuff

it's not that much of a stretch

[nova gale]

yea, but that would be unsemantic and kinda pain in the ass overall

[heady vigil]

a

[nova gale]

we could make an another field for that

[heady vigil]

what's the issue with semantic unsemantic again,,,,

[carmine quarry]

i think tags are on the backburner, but we should start studying sites like ao3 for inspiration on doing them correctly

first priority is text preservation, second priority is text discoverability, yknow

[nova gale]

if err != nil {
    panic("onnonnonononononnooooo")
}

mi pilin sona mute

[nova gale]

@carmine quarry is ARR the default value if an entry has no license defined?

[carmine quarry]

in the api probably just keep it a null or undefined value
in the frontend treat it like ARR, but maybe give it a comment that its presumed

[shut flume]

i recently really started digging into a11y so if you would like a second pair of eyes on it for a11y concerns please lmk

[nova gale]

Yippee :)

A metric fuck ton of schema fixes related to dates incoming...

oops...

please do not make your dates string (for example date: "2020-12-6" or date:'2020-12-6' instead of just date: 2020-12-6)

[heady vigil]

lol

lmao

the " character is the bane of programmers, perhaps

[nova gale]

in addition to ; and }, yes

[carmine quarry]

we are slowly making the metadata more strict

[nova gale]

Update:

• I sadly need to move the publishing to tomorrow, because i have school.
• I will likely get it running tomorrow too, so that's positive 👍

[heady vigil]

@nova gale bump

[heady vigil]

should this be split up or joined together..
http://tokipona.alinome.net/tra_gabecquer.eo.html
http://tokipona.alinome.net/tra_egaleano.eo.html

[carmine quarry]

use ur judgement imo

[heady vigil]

💥

[carmine quarry]

akesi o, mi wile ala māori!

[heady vigil]

@jagged burrow lipu penpo kala

[jagged burrow]

mi sitelen jaki e pali ni wile lon lipu pi supa mi
suno li kama lon ma mi la mi pali wile

[carmine quarry]

i think i did like one lipu tenpo? the previous one?

[heady vigil]

btw we have a logo now

and it's not centered correctly :)

[carmine quarry]

hmm its not very pleasing but until a further notice its better than nothing

[shut flume]

o toki sin e ni: nimi Lapo li tan inimi seme pi toki pona

[carmine quarry]

[lipu ale pona .]

nimi li suli ala tawa mi. jan li wile la ni li ken ijo ante

[jagged burrow]

mi pali (lon tenpo suno ala...taso mi pali)

btw how do we feel about archiving just. random stuff from discord

i'd totally go and grab every poem anyone has ever shared in #pali-musi if that's something we wanna do

[heady vigil]

I mean

I have done that

I've grabbed stuff from #pana

I've grabbed stuff from people's blogs, even if it's a short message

I see no limit besides it being in toki pona and being public

[heady vigil]

do I transcribe this

[wraith loom]

it's already transcribed

[heady vigil]

I mean it as like, putting into the database, plus mean this jokingly

[heady vigil]

see this

[heady vigil]

how do I note that a story has an unknown author

this may be either anonymous or lost to time

either in toki pona spaces or in real life (folk songs, the Bible, etc)

[wraith loom]

[author unknown]

wait does it need to be in toki pona?

[heady vigil]

it's because we are looking for machine-readable data

[heady vigil]

what do we do with blogs and stuff I wonder
https://web.archive.org/web/20220812202853/https://lipu.pona.la/

[heady vigil]

covers count here I think

[carmine quarry]

yep this is good

but for example o lanpan (pan (nanpa wan)) has a large part of o lape lyrics but is its own thing

[heady vigil]

yeah

cover means merge
sample means split

o lape has the short and long versions, maybe that gets merged

[carmine quarry]

ken

i dont really know in that case

its like an extra verse

[heady vigil]

a

[heady vigil]

big

[vague coral]

lipu ni li awen lon ilo mi · wile la mi ken alasa jo e toki mama ona

[heady vigil]

jipi

o pana tawa ilo Internet Archive anu seme

[vague coral]

a ken

[vague coral]

kalama mama li lon ala nasin pana la ni o lon poka pi nasin pana anu seme

[heady vigil]

seme

[vague coral]

esun [Nintendo] li pana ala e kalama ona lon nasin [CC]

[heady vigil]

aa

I'm not a lawyer so uhm

- license: copyright violation lol

[heady vigil]

me when the transcription projects requires you to transcribe, argh ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQZkZXHfsoA

[heady vigil]

so much
https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/commit/4fa82b3328de12a1722a1d4dea2d7299ffa7a86f

wait I just realised

I fucked shit up

ok now it's good

[heady vigil]

is there a name for using git braches like this
I maybe should merge because there's so much in my PR

[tribal bear]

logo idea?

ma seme la poki li lon. mi sona ala.

[carmine quarry]

the "face" is too derpy imo

i tried something similar and im not feeling it either

[tribal bear]

it looks upside down

lipu ale ike 😔

[heady vigil]

do I split this into several files,,,,,, oh no
https://www.rxddit.com/r/tokipona/comments/cfpyny/haiku_challenge/

[carmine quarry]

opinion
the default answer is "dont bother, one file is fine"

if someone later on wants to put in the effort, theyre free to do so

oooh but authors are all different here

anyway as long as you get it documented thats already great

[heady vigil]

oki

💥

I'll keep this for later

another question is, can you discover when 'ma mi li pimeja' was written

Wikisource doesn't have it (yet)

maybe searching on the forums will lead to something

@fading plover

[fading plover]

forums appear to be down!

http://forums.tokipona.org/viewtopic.php?p=15452#p15452

[heady vigil]

💥

[carmine quarry]

we might want a full dump of the forum db while it still exists

[heady vigil]

-# I thought it already existed, that's why I bothered Kekan

[fading plover]

i actually have a full dump of the public forum

that said, the forum is Supposed to remain up into the indefinite future

[heady vigil]

can you go into it to show whatever is this link

[fading plover]

that link was a random one i knew existed so y'all could see the forum is down, it's not really relevant

[heady vigil]

a lol

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil

two different people made a "lets touch everything" commit, and they're not nicely one after the other

so youre gonna have problems

[heady vigil]

:)

:)))))

💥

I'll try to fix that...

[carmine quarry]

i recommend just dropping this branch and doing this again

[heady vigil]

argh

[carmine quarry]

but like. cleanly and merge soon

[heady vigil]

sure,,,,

I could rebase the branch maybe I think

[carmine quarry]

rebasing with a bajillion conflicts is pain

you can try but i don't think youll like it

[heady vigil]

it's worth to tryyyyyyy

[carmine quarry]

ye go for it

[heady vigil]

← code masochist

will regret this in 5 minutes

[heady vigil]

I wonder, is there any way to compare diffs between branches?

[carmine quarry]

unsure

in terms of lessons to learn,
(a) i, as a maintainer, am not paying a close eye to this project, and causing you to do extra work, so sorry
(b) when anyone makes a pr that touches a lot of things, its best to merge quick before someone else starts similar work that conflicts with yours

oh btw CC-BY-SA is not so much a typo as a disagreement what standard we're following

[heady vigil]

it is a typo actually

[carmine quarry]

if we adopted spdx this is what the license field should look like

[heady vigil]

grr

[carmine quarry]

but honestly

for now

just wing it

whatever causes you least pain

[heady vigil]

will try

no guarantee

[nocturne compass]

sidenote: your pfp reminds me of ijo Stella

[heady vigil]

that's because we used the same Picrew

seemingly did it

it seems like it worked after all

never doubt my masochism

[carmine quarry]

wawa a

o mu e mi when youre done

after you merge i wanna throw some stuff on top

[heady vigil]

huh

@carmine quarry

[carmine quarry]

ye?

[heady vigil]

the heck is going on here
or how to fix it, as I tried to merge the branches together and it decided.... how about going one commit short

[carmine quarry]

honestly i can't read this kind of graph

[heady vigil]

lol

[carmine quarry]

i mostly just read diffs

[heady vigil]

imagine reading

[carmine quarry]

the diff is all sorts of fucked and i vaguely know why but i can't give specific advice on why its like that

also

it wasn't your toki pona library pr that needed merge/rebase/redo from scratch work

it was the formatting one

also this is not a rebase

[heady vigil]

oh well

did the job?

[carmine quarry]

no

[heady vigil]

didn't

[heady vigil]

fucking shit shit shit

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil i propose the following

[heady vigil]

propose

[carmine quarry]

1. I figure out your toki pona library thing and bring the branch to a usable state

and merge it, to get us out of these troubles for a while

[heady vigil]

yeah

[carmine quarry]

2. you later have to redo the work done in "Formatting updates" likely from scratch

[heady vigil]

in that case, I would be banned from touching a keyboard again

[carmine quarry]

im guessing what youve done in that branch is mostly a search and replace

[heady vigil]

yeah, it's not that much I hope

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

git is such a powerful tool but it sucks ass and shit and I hate it

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/29

check the history of this one

i think ive got all youve done here?

[heady vigil]

yay

[carmine quarry]

double check the contents of these files:
2021/02/waso.md
2020/11/kama-pi-poki-ala.md

they may or may not be what you want

[heady vigil]

most of it
these are missing

[carmine quarry]

theyre right here

[heady vigil]

wtf ok

I'm blind

[carmine quarry]

what branch are you looking at

[heady vigil]

I didn't see it on GitHub, that's my mistake

checking this branch now

[carmine quarry]

a ale li pona

[carmine quarry]

i was perplexed at +10k lines, but turns out 80% of that was legit

sina pali suli

[heady vigil]

kama pi poka ala is good
waso should be deleted in favour of waso-tanije and waso-likipi

[carmine quarry]

you're free to delete it and commit

[heady vigil]

trur

[carmine quarry]

okay and once you're happy with the branch:

[heady vigil]

then it's validation time

[carmine quarry]

read through these errors

https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/actions/runs/13777093250/job/38528378492?pr=29

yep

[heady vigil]

the machine craves validation

it's like me

fr fr

[carmine quarry]

wait actually no

don't read through the errors

[wraith loom]

breaking the sentence at this point, esp with a colon, is so tokiponapilled

[carmine quarry]

some of them are not your fault - theyre on main

so ill go fix them on main, and push them to you again

[heady vigil]

lol

[carmine quarry]

ni la o awen lili

can i just say i love this

while fixing errors is a chore, it is also a growing pain

the collection grows

@heady vigil main is clean now!

https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/actions/runs/13777347777/job/38529128697?pr=29

these are your actual problems to deal with

[heady vigil]

yippee

[heady vigil]

the way uou say that 😭

[carmine quarry]

bug me if anything is impossible to understand

but most error messages seem clear enough

[heady vigil]

oki!!

[carmine quarry]

@sullen imp i just saw your lipu.pona.la pr. this one really blurs the line between a social media site and a creative works collection

idk what to do lol

@fading plover i want your opinion as well
https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/27/files

like this is a creative work sure

but surely this isn't

[heady vigil]

toki

[fading plover]

• since the site no longer exists, i 100% want this included in ilo muni, and poki lapo is the easiest way for y'all to do that for me
• but poki lapo is not Just an archive of course; it's an archive of creative works
• i'm on board with pruning but somewhat nervous about, effectively, making a minimum definition for what counts as a creative work
• that's ultimately up to y'all though, but note i would prefer the most liberal definition for my purpose
• and that said, a lot of these seem more like introductions and conversations, not so much creative works; you'd prune a lot of them for a stronger definition of art

[carmine quarry]

pretty much my thought as well. im leaning towards making an explicit exemption for all of lipu.pona.la, on the grounds of practicality (and archival)

[vague coral]

mi ken awen e ale lon ma ante lon wile · mi sona ala e nasin pi pona ale

-# kin kulupu li wile la mi ken lon sin e lipu

[vague coral]

-# mi [Kita] ante

[carmine quarry]

pakala.

[heady vigil]

poki Lapo is an archive for a very specific thing but it may be integrated into a bigger archive for more works like so

there's a lot of media that can't be added like multimedia, PDFs, presentations, videos, social media posts, works in English about toki pona, so much more

[heady vigil]

i propose ijapo ,, ijo ale pona

[carmine quarry]

your biggest problem will be finding someone with infinite storage

[vague coral]

la ni li seme :p https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/blob/a712a99b14c7ecfeae8ea69d317015e33d9c5f0e/plaintext/2021/12/toki-lili-lon-ma-kasi.md

[nocturne compass]

god, obviously

[vague coral]

pilin mi la poki wan li ken jo e ale pi toki [pona] lon tenpo lon

poki pi nanpa WAAAAAA

[heady vigil]

😔

[fading plover]

good news! the entire publicly available output of the whole community could comfortably fit within 12TB.
bad news! you do not have the rights to distribute almost any of it, and a fair amount of it exists on platforms that Will go after you for trying.

[stoic canyon]

toki a! Does anyone happen to have the link to lukin Lapo? I'm ready to start working on it!

[vague coral]

sina nanpa a e ni anu toki e pilin taso anu seme

[carmine quarry]

@nova gale

[fading plover]

mi nanpa e ni mute la mi ken sona e ni ale
pilin li lon li lili

[heady vigil]

I love breaking the law

[heady vigil]

@carmine quarry what do I do with unknown authors?

[carmine quarry]

if you tried to research it and failed, put unknown and explain why you dont know as a comment

but we dont wanna make a habit out of not researching

[heady vigil]

are you implying that I don't do my research? /lh

also we need a way to input dates like YYYY and YYYY-MM

and also title and original-title being null makes the computer throw a fit

[carmine quarry]

@fading plover what do you think: maybe we force every entry to have a date, but add an optional field for like "level of date uncertainty"?

a frontend would almost certainly want to have a full date object

[fading plover]

huh, this is actually a much better solution than a bunch of different date fields
i would call it "date precision" and the options be "year" "month" "day"
then the frontend can omit segments of the date as needed

[carmine quarry]

what would you call the level of precision when we arent certain about the year

[fading plover]

given there isn't an obvious thing for the frontend to round to, i would not attempt to put a date on those
put them in the unknown category and leave a comment explaining what the date ranges are

[carmine quarry]

no, i just know my standards would slip

[carmine quarry]

yeah we want all files to have a title

[heady vigil]

well

what if there is none

poetry sometimes has no defined title
some posts just start and have nothing definitive

for original-title (this can be resolved more simply by just removing it), some works, I can't know what they are about

2020/08/toki-insa.md is a translation of a letter in Esperanto and (1) this author died decades ago so I'm not sure where to find these archives and (1) I don't speak Esperanto

[carmine quarry]

we have to have titles by definition of a file

if that requires selecting a title that the author themselves didnt create then yeah we have to do that

[heady vigil]

oh well

title: untitled it is

[carmine quarry]

speaking of, im starting to suspect our file naming convention was not a good idea and we should have had short meaningless ids

because there are name conflicts, there are date changes, all of them will break links when we have users

i wont touch that rn tho

[vague coral]

nasin [ISO] nanpa MMMMLWAW la ni tu o ken https://ijmacd.github.io/rfc3339-iso8601/
taso nasin pi nasin [YAML] li seme 🤔

[vague coral]

-# ona o mu pi toki [pona],, · mi wile ala e lipu nanpa f3d971ab li wile e lipu nanpa Wanipetosiku,,

[carmine quarry]

ken suli a

[carmine quarry]

so fun fact 3-4 syllables is all we need for the foreseeable future

[vague coral]

mi pali la mi wile e nimi suli · wan la pali mute li lon la jan pali li ken lukin ala e nimi kepeken pi pali ante · tu la nimi mute li sama li "Lapo" li "Lepo" li "Wapo" la ike
taso sina wile ala ni la pona :3

[nova gale]

hello! sry for not being online/meeting the dl i posted last week,,, i caught a quite severe case of corona and influenza b at the same time (avg my luck lol) and was stuck in an ICU for almost a week due to respiratory issues. anyways i'm better now and have almost caught up to my schoolwork... i think i will have nasin ilo published and running monday or tuesday

[nova gale]

how about representing them as a range between two dates

like if we know only that the entry was made in 2020, we would have

date-start: 2020-01-01
date-end: 2020-12-31

would also be an easy way to handle stuff like reddit comments/chat logs/competition entries

[heady vigil]

oh that's nice

[heady vigil]

oh dear 🫂

pona ale o tawa sina

o kon pona

[nova gale]

pona o tawa sina kin! ni la, mi pilin pona. ike nampa wan mi li ni: pali pi kama sona li kama mute :D

[vague coral]

ma [Reddit] la selo majuna la sina luka e tenpo la ona li pana e tenpo pi nanpa mute a · selo sin la mi sona ala

lipu utala la tenpo ni li wile anu seme → jan ale li kama ken lukin e lipu

[heady vigil]

selo sin la sama

[nova gale]

heyyyy, shouldn't poki/plaintext/2003/05/ma-tomo-pape.md and poki/plaintext/2003/05/mama-pi-mi-mute.md be credited to the authors of the Bible and not Damian Yerrick?

[heady vigil]

oops

Yerrick wrote the Bible

[nova gale]

sewi Jeli 🙏

[nocturne compass]

aren't the authors of The Bible™️ unknown

[nova gale]

idk but we have some documents with authors containing "Authors of The Bible" so i guess not?

[nocturne compass]

I'm pretty sure all of the theories on the Bibles authors are just that, theories

they could be true and they could not be true
it's pretty clear stylometrically that it was not written by just one person

[nova gale]

interesting

[heady vigil]

we could have the literal string authors of the Bible to at least GROUP these texts

otherwise have a tag for the Bible

[nova gale]

i think "Authors of The Bible" is fine authors field

[vague coral]

https://youtu.be/29vjQwnt-Fw&t=106s

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil @nova gale i suggest specifying the book from which a given translation is from, this way if its a book from the old testament we can avoid specifying whether its from a christian or jewish perspective

[heady vigil]

oh true

tho for these specifically they are likely written from a Christian perspective

[nova gale]

does that really matter so much we need to make an exception just for one collection

[carmine quarry]

please elaborate

what would the exception be

[nova gale]

writing "the authors of book x from collection y" instead of just unknown like we do for all of the other entries

i mean i really do not care that much,, would just be more consistent

[carmine quarry]

hm im non religious and idk about yall but we'd benefit from a perspective of someone practicing

unknown usually means "hard to research", with abrahamic religions texts its more "theres been tons of research but its complicated

[nova gale]

sure, as i said, i do not have a lot to say about this, as i am neither religious nor have i done a lot of collecting texts

[carmine quarry]

asked about it on the sona.pona.la server, will get back to you all if theres any useful feedback

[nocturne compass]

I feel like the translators for lipu sewi pi toki pona should be credited

[nova gale]

alllllrighty, no nasin today, so tomorrow it is. i am fully ready, except for a weird bug where the database drops the table containing all of the poki entries randomly and leaks all of the memory (yes in go; no, i don't know how). the bug is likely in the database, which i could likely debug in about two hours if i wanted to, but tbf i'd rather just go lape and do the debugging tomorrow.

[carmine quarry]

nasa a

o lape pona o pali pona

[nova gale]

okay so turns out the "database" i have been using is just a wrapper for a massive json document containing all of the entries stored in it...

[heady vigil]

waow

[nova gale]

i have already committed to it so i'll just rewrite the "database" to use sqlite instead of json

probably will make it at least 100x faster too lol

[heady vigil]

ahah

nice

[nocturne compass]

incredible

[carmine quarry]

what is the total word count of all lipu tenpo releases?

[carmine quarry]

0001-nanpa-akesi: 4392
0002-nanpa-mun: 4859
0003-nanpa-soweli: 6453
0004-nanpa-kasi: 5959
0005-nanpa-pan: 6725
0006-nanpa-suno: 5846
0007-nanpa-kule: 6761
0008-nanpa-toki: 6072
0009-nanpa-moli: 6448
0010-nanpa-lete: 5580
0011-nanpa-walo: 5756
0012-nanpa-nimi: 6468
0012.5-nanpa-kijetesantakalu: 156
0013-nanpa-pipi: 5891
0014-nanpa-seli: 5852
0015-nanpa-moku: 5475
0016-nanpa-kulupu: 7370
0017-nanpa-musi: 5931
0018-nanpa-tu: 7438
0019-nanpa-mama: 5811
0020-nanpa-nasin: 6283
0021-nanpa-ma: 6098
0022-nanpa-sin: 6547
0023-nanpa-sewi: 5350
0024-nanpa-tenpo: 5626
0025-nanpa-kalama: 6321
0025.5-nanpa-lili: 315
0026-nanpa-jaki: 4991
0027-nanpa-linja: 5824
0028-nanpa-lawa: 6220
0029-nanpa-jan: 5772
0030-nanpa-loje: 4788
0031-nanpa-kala: 5770
Total: 185148

put together, lipu tenpo is the largest text produced in toki pona, exceeding nasin Lanpan by a factor of three

to, perhaps, no one's surprise

for disclosure, my working definition of a word here is "some letters surrounded by a gap" (\b), which is famously a flawed metric, but my hope is that lipu tenpo is sane enough to not have any xnopyts, aaaaaaajjjjjjjjjs, and hrrkrkrkrwpfrbrbrbrlablblblblblblwhitoo'aps

[nova gale]

by "letters surrounded by a gap" do you mean /\b(\w+)\b/gm?

[carmine quarry]

ya pretty much

[nova gale]

I dunnooo... i think this is pretty close:
kijetesantaklu!
kijetesantaka-
lu kijetesantakalu
kijetesantakalu.
kijetesantaklu kije-
tesantaklu kijete-
santaklu kijetesan-
taklu? kijetesantaklu
kijetesantaklu kije-
tesantaklu!
-kijetesantaklu So-
natan

:D

[vestal herald]

you forgot nanpa ala, which has 0 words!

[carmine quarry]

it may be excluded from lapo, i don't remember

largest works in lapo, if counted by this naive method:

                                            name     wc
196                                 nasin-Lanpan  72227
301                                         nasi  65316
434                                   jan-sitata  12997
188  lon-anpa-pi-sewi-walo-lon-sewi-pi-telo-suno  11146
191                                       mi-jan   9219
294                              mi-en-waso-kaka   8511
608                                     tu-kuntu   7452
416                        jan-mun-en-nasin-waso   7220
408                           nasin-pi-kama-sona   6209
423                                    nasin-iso   6041
440                                   nasin-puta   5638
765                o-toki-e-ijo-pi-toki-pona-ala   5203
476                                  ni-li-nasin   5011
485                 kalama-sin-suno-pi-toki-pona   4448
303                              nasin-nasa-mupa   4398
209   waso-sona-Ukami-en-monsuta-pi-kiwen-pimeja   3835
464                                   ali-li-ale   3595
740                              musi-pi-kala-ko   3465
413            jan-pi-alasa-kala-en-jan-olin-ona   3363
100             toki-10000000000-pi-nasin-limili   3247

total size (on main) right now: 610k words

nasin Lanpan gets an extra 10k words out of the ether but 🤷

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil @fading plover check this out, lapo word count per month

i know the two big fuckoff spikes are utala musi

but i wonder why the spikes in 2021-2022 were much smaller and much more spread out throughout the year

[fading plover]

neat! collaborative and/or coordinated writing maybe?

[carmine quarry]

also same graph but yearly

so the trend is slowly upwards (just like ilo Muni) but the distribution across the year is lowkey kinda concerning yknow? it feels much easier to ignore toki pona literature when its all august

@shut flume sina pilin seme tawa ni

[shut flume]

i am concerned about the void that uta monsuta will leave

[heady vigil]

wow!

[shut flume]

aa

[heady vigil]

-# what does this mean, is it ending..

[shut flume]

the project's maintainer resigned so its up in the air

[heady vigil]

oh no

[carmine quarry]

i trust someone to step up before long

[heady vigil]

I wonder how much of this is due to we only including few published works before 2020 and how much is it due to that. we don't have much before it

[carmine quarry]

i mean ofc

itll change as we get more coverage

[heady vigil]

true..

[carmine quarry]

but i wonder by how much

[heady vigil]

we remove hyphenated words

[nova gale]

well, adopt the project

[shut flume]

mute pi wawa pali mi li wawa ala. mi pali pi utala musi. tenpo ni la ni taso li ken. tenpo kama la mi ken pali ante.

mi lukin e pali pi jan Stella lon pali 'Bobelarto' lon kulupu pi toki Epelanto

ona li pali mute. taso kin la ona li toki e ni:

tenpo suli la ona li pali e ijo ante mute tawa ni: pali Bobelarto li ken

pali Bobelarto li suli mute. jan Stella li ken ala 'open taso' e ona. nanpa wan la ona li wile pali e ilo mute mute e nasin mute li wile alasa e jan pali poka.

mi wile ala open e pali suli tawa ni taso: pali mi li ken ala awen.
open li pali lili.
awen li pali suli.

[carmine quarry]

ive split the word count into lipu tenpo and non lipu tenpo components

lipu tenpo is blue

just non-lipu tenpo content:

i think the 2021-2022 bump is mostly kalama sin and lipu kule

which makes sense cause thats what we have documented

@vestal herald whats the biggest bottleneck to making lipu tenpo monthly? writers? artists? various support jobs?

[vestal herald]

yea, writers and proofreaders, I think, right now?

[carmine quarry]

sona pona

[heady vigil]

who'd thought that the written work has a bottleneck due to writing

[vague coral]

mi pali pi ma [StoryWeaver] · mi o toki ala toki e jan pi sitelen kule lon seme

[vague coral]

https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/30

[vague coral]

@heady vigil o · nimi mama pi pipelen kule la pilin pina li peme

[heady vigil]

wawa

a

are the illustrators for original works or translated ones

[vague coral]

nanpa wan

a kin "lipu mama anu ante toki" la · nasin pi tenpo lon li nasa tawa mi · poki authors li ken toki e mama pi lipu anpa li ken toki e mama pi lipu mama · nasin ni li seme tawa sinjale

title: nanpa luka luka luka
authors:
- jan Kita
parent-works:
- relation: translation
  metadata:
  - title: Burger King Foot Lettuce
    authors:
    - Top15s
    sources:
    - https://youtu.be/9PWjqgM_CU8
- relation: remake
  path: plaintext/2020/11/nanpa-je-ka.md

[vague coral]

mi wile lipu e nasin sewi pi wile mi lon suno kama

[vague coral]

# plaintext/2022/10/soweli-kisa.md
title: soweli Kisa
authors:
- type: main author
  path: authors/tokiponists/jan-kita.yml
- type: proofreader
  from: 2022-12-21
  to: 2022-12-21
  data:
    names:
    - waso Keli
    - waso kitty
- type: proofreader
  from: 2023-06-19
  to: 2023-06-19
  data: { names: [jan Tepo] }
published-on: 2022-10-28
modified-on: 2023-06-19
tags:
- genre/fairy-tale
- cw/cat
parent-works:
- relation: translation of
  data:
    title: Kisa the Cat
    authors:
    - type: main author
      path: authors/special/folklore.yml
    - type: adapter
      data:
        names: [Andrew Lang]
        links: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lang]
    license: CC-PDM-1.0
    sources:
    - http://www.mythfolklore.net/andrewlang/265.htm
- relation: inspired by
  path: stubs/2020/04/akesi-seli-lili.md
license: CC0-1.0

# authors/tokiponists/jan-kita.yml
names:
- jan Kita
- poni sona
links:
- https://hecko.my.to/

# tags/genre/fairy-tale.yml
names:
- "fairy tale"
- "musi usawi"
description: Folklore story typically featuring magic and/or mythical beings.
implies:
- genre/folklore

# stubs/2020/04/akesi-seli-lili.yml
title: akesi seli lili
authors:
- data: { names: [Fingtam Languages] }
published-on: 2020-04-23
exclusion-reason: commercially available

,,mi kepeken nasin ni lon tenpo lili ni la ona li kama ike lili tawa mi · mi pakala li sitelen e name e names ala lon tenpo · kin mi pana pi wile ala e - lon anpa pi nimi data la selo poki namako ike li kama

[heady vigil]

waow

[carmine quarry]

its really cool that you can do this but i don't think we as a project can reasonably hold ourselves to this high of a standard

for metadata collection

our first milestone is collecting everything thats feasible to collect, and introducing too much work on the metadata side will sidetrack that

whereas expanding metadata can be done as subsequent work

[vague coral]

lon,,

[vague coral]

suli la mi wile e ni

anu

title: nanpa luka luka luka
authors: [jan Kita]
translation-of:
  title: Burger King Foot Lettuce
  authors: [Top15s]

[vague coral]

suli la ni li musi mi taso

mi wile toki e ni lon open li weka ike e toki

[nova gale]

we really do not need the metadata of the related files tho,, as long as they are in toki pona (aka relevant to us) they will eventually end up in lapo -> we can just retrieve the data from there

also collections etc. would probably be easier to implement with more complex frontmatter, which also would make the likely incoming folder stucture change easier

[blazing girder]

mi ken sona ala e toki mute pi tomo ni la o toki tawa mi lon ijo suli pi tomo ni.

[carmine quarry]

please elaborate on that. i think we've determined we cant treat collections the same way as tags because it loses collection order

[carmine quarry]

we'll probably advertise more when we have a frontend!

right now its usable but not pretty

[blazing girder]

o awen pali. mi awen.

[carmine quarry]

if you read all of lipu tenpo and listen to all of kalama sin, youre already ahead of most of the community and cover like 40% of our texts so far

and with utala.pona.la youll get to like 70%

[blazing girder]

pona a.

[vague coral]

ni li wile ala wile https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLrnNZ0mYpipkRKKjyMOkDpbgl_iryh0y

[vague coral]

-# [ilo penpo o lukin ala]
-# while expanding on this reform, thinking what else i might want in it, i realized i'm reinventing wikidata

[heady vigil]

wile

[heady vigil]

lol

let's just recreate Wikidata and Wikisource :33

[wraith loom]

@heady vigil did you find the author of the Ave Maria piece

[heady vigil]

i forgot

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[wraith loom]

you might have their english name, Tobias, but i've found a tp name, jan Topaja

[heady vigil]

wawa

[wraith loom]

i tried to check myself, but github is a maze to the uninitiated; where are works found? searched for? is there a plan for a frontend?

[heady vigil]

there's a front end in the works

[wraith loom]

pona

[nova gale]

I mean we could do something like

poki-lipu:
  - nimi: foo
    nanpa-lon-poki: 3

[carmine quarry]

i find this to be less good because this way you can't have collections of collections, and you also can't guarantee ahead of time that the indices are actually all taken with no gaps or overlaps

but yeah, depends how annoying the current implementation of collections/ is for you

[carmine quarry]

merged @swift imp's ongezellig pr

@vague coral turn your draft prs into open prs when want me to review them

@heady vigil ill work on remaining errors in your toki pona library pr

[heady vigil]

wawa

didn't I push some validation corrections

[carmine quarry]

nope

you might want to do that before i touch em, then

[heady vigil]

oops

will do so

[carmine quarry]

pona

ping me when you do

[vague coral]

-# ike la wile pali mi li moli lon pana open :p

[heady vigil]

@carmine quarry sorry just now i remembered

[carmine quarry]

no worries!

Korney Chukovsky????

wilddd

@heady vigil why this btw

[heady vigil]

maybe an error

no clue

revert that

[heady vigil]

yeah

[carmine quarry]

../plaintext/unknown-year/unknown-month/tenpo-pi-seli-lili.md
../plaintext/2021/12/tenpo-suno-kama.md
../plaintext/2021/12/tenpo-pona-pimeja.md
../plaintext/2021/12/sike-pini-en-sike-sin.md
../plaintext/2021/12/pona-o-lon-tenpo-sewi.md
../plaintext/2021/12/o-awen-e-tenpo-pini.md
../plaintext/2021/12/jan-pana-li-kama.md
../plaintext/2021/12/jan-lawa-pona.md
../plaintext/2021/12/ilo-kalama-li-mu.md
../plaintext/2021/08/pona-o-tawa-kulupu.md
../plaintext/2021/08/o-weka-tan-ona.md
../plaintext/2021/08/o-tawa-e-mi.md
../plaintext/2021/08/mi-tawa-ma-mi-pona.md
../plaintext/2021/08/ma-pona-mawi.md
../plaintext/2021/08/ale-o-pali.md
../plaintext/2021/03/telo-supa-li-supa.md
../plaintext/2021/03/kasi-la-waso-lili.md
../plaintext/2021/03/jan-esun-li-kama.md
../plaintext/2020/12/kasi-pi-tenpo-lete-o.md

@heady vigil these need authors

what did we decide about unknown authors. i forgot

[heady vigil]

so did I

[carmine quarry]

sdflkjgsd

[heady vigil]

what are all these even

[carmine quarry]

theyre in your branch

idk lol

[heady vigil]

ik

oh they're the songs by Ke Tami

[carmine quarry]

ldfkjsdf

[heady vigil]

they're folk songs

so we don't know the authors

[carmine quarry]

you know what im starting to suspect

our metadata is poorly done for translations:

[heady vigil]

I believe so

[carmine quarry]

i think we'd actually want to put the translator in the main author field

and make the original author the optional field

at least, in most cases thatd be more relevant, imo

[heady vigil]

huh

[carmine quarry]

cause like, we always have to know the translator

[heady vigil]

[carmine quarry]

as the person who actually put the toki pona words on paper

[heady vigil]

not always

anonymous

and deleted

[carmine quarry]

shmanonymous whatever its like 4 works total maybe

[heady vigil]

lol

[carmine quarry]

whereas the "original author" has soooooo many issues

[heady vigil]

idk

[carmine quarry]

and you wouldn't want to search by it by default probably anyway??

@fading plover @vague coral @vestal herald what do yall think?
tl;dr does it perhaps make more sense to use the main (obligatory) author field for translators, rather than original authors, in situations where its a translation?

[vestal herald]

it does make sense
you're collecting things in toki pona, so the main focus would probably be documenting the toki pona person working on it

[heady vigil]

maybe?

[carmine quarry]

ill wait for more opinions. also i won't change it in this particular pr, because its a big change and should be done in a window when everythings merged

also we already have

title:
original-title:

so why not

authors:
original-authors:

[vague coral]

ni a

wawa namako la

title:
authors:
sources:
original:
  title:
  authors:
  sources:

[fading plover]

I'm on board with this change

[carmine quarry]

while we're talking about this,
authors or by?

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil can you fill out the (original) authors in whatever way you prefer?

i tried getting to it myself and i immediately ran into "research takes forever"

[nova gale]

good idea

[nova gale]

i think this is really good

[nova gale]

authors

[heady vigil]

what do you mean research!!! I did mine already

[carmine quarry]

yeah exactly. youve done the research so please put down some text strings for the remaining articles. i don't care too much how its phrased, "of folk origins" or whatever, just something that i don't have to research again and duplicate your work

[heady vigil]

awawwa

ok wait so like

the remaining articles are just these ones?

that you published?

[heady vigil]

.

I got scared for a second implying that you meant the entire poki

[carmine quarry]

yea

after that, we only got like ~2-4 errors

and then we can merge

[heady vigil]

ok!!

I will see

oh and also actually

I have tags for these

so it's easier to clean up

[carmine quarry]

awesome

[heady vigil]

I'll get that done

can I just replace the null values with other ones and you correct these to use the correct labels?

@carmine quarry pushed

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil i have changed the 2009 dates to 2009-01-01, with a comment that they must use a date-precision field when we add one

assuming everyones happy with that solution

ready to merge? no more chabges you wanna make @heady vigil ?

[heady vigil]

no clue

I think so

[carmine quarry]

pona

@heady vigil so your formatting updates pr is gonna be closed, as we discussed before

we can repeat its changes again later, when they apply to everything

@vague coral i can take over your prs if you no longer want to work on them - what do you think?

[vague coral]

mi ken a pali pi ma [StoryWeaver] · ni li lili
ma [lipu.pona.la] la mi sona ala · (taso sina pali la o awen ala e ale tan ni taso → ale o lon linjuwi · mi ken pana lon ma ante)
jan [Lentan] la o jo

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil good news! i have bumped the song pr

[heady vigil]

yay

[carmine quarry]

its now mergeable if you're done with it, or workable if you want to work more on it

[heady vigil]

oki

I'll see

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1111065013663301652/1271250592429244550/melonNuke.gif

[carmine quarry]

please sanity check kulupu jan tenpo, sike tu, toki pona li toki pona - those had rebase conflicts

i think maybe you included them in the toki pona library

(its unfortunate that youve done duplicate work! sorry)

@heady vigil would you be willing to help me write more documentation on our progress

[heady vigil]

more documentation like what

[carmine quarry]

we've merged the TP library but it's got no corresponding github issue

it would be good to write about how complete our coverage of it is

and if there are any potential issues with any of it into the future

for this summary!

[carmine quarry]

@nova gale anything i can do to help you get the frontend/api out?

[heady vigil]

there is

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil should i reassign song collection work to you?

i think @unkempt oriole had considered working on it but didn't?

also does the toki pona library exist as a collection? maybe it should?

[heady vigil]

it exists as a collection

feel free to assign anything to me

[carmine quarry]

whats the file name? can't find it

[heady vigil]

oh I misinterpreted

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[carmine quarry]

a collection would serve as a good way to keep track of which works have been saved and which haven't (and are thus commented out)

you also do that in the issue, but im not sure how up to date it is

[heady vigil]

it is up to date

[carmine quarry]

wawa

[heady vigil]

because I have to use to to keep track of my work, so it is

[carmine quarry]

i should at some point go through every file and familiarise myself with them

but i feel like thatll be easier done when we have a frontend

[kind mesa]

I believe we did say we would, quite a while ago. I would still love to (it's somewhere deep in our to-do lists), but we've been really busy and probably will be for a while, so feel free to reassign

kala Asi ↩️

[Reply to:](#1252224729977327647 message) i think @unkempt oriole had considered working on it but didn't?

[nova gale]

Okay, i have ingested 2 grams of caffeine, so tomorrow, we will either have a dead mushroom or a working prototype of ilo and lukin

let's hope for the latter

[carmine quarry]

im free-ish in the coming months so i might start helping with code. when its public, ofc

[nova gale]

Sure! The API seems okay-ish after i ditched the db,, i'll do a bit more perf testing, write a quick an dirty demo frontend and fix my homelabs nginx setup

should be fine

[nocturne compass]

2 whole grams
isn't 400mg the recomended limit or something

[heady vigil]

soko li moli

[nova gale]

soko li moli ala

mi jo e ilo lapo

[nova gale]

okay we are up 🎉

i just need to wait for my dns records to update

[carmine quarry]

ping me when you release code

[nova gale]

btw does anyone know why there is an empty entry at 2022/08/ilo li wile e soweli.md?

[carmine quarry]

is it in any collection?

we should mark empty files as validation errors

[nova gale]

true

[nova gale]

i'll just clean it up a bit

[carmine quarry]

search with hyphens instead of whitespace too, it might be that sort of mistake

[nova gale]

yea perhaps,, i have not implemented collections yet so i dont know

[carmine quarry]

yep thats fine

[nova gale]

alright, i'm gonna push it to github now

@carmine quarry it's public now!

[carmine quarry]

pona a

[heady vigil]

forgor

[nova gale]

okay dns records are always slow but this is like slow

[heady vigil]

ike suli

[nova gale]

ok what the heck it has not updated even now??!

thas weird

[vague coral]

ona o lon seme

[nova gale]

aaaalright,, the DNS managed to update 👍

ahh shit

a new problem

ilo linluwi li pilin ike tawa nasin CORS

pakala

pakala pakala pakala

tenpo hotfix li kama

[carmine quarry]

upd: yeah, im pretty sure it will be beneficial for us to treat translators as "authors" and authors as "original-authors"

im currently doing some datavis on lipu tenpo and the list of authors is quite silly

as much as we all love Sappho she probably shouldn't be appearing in the list of authors

it is admittedly a quick fix on my end but still

[wraith loom]

and giacorno leopardi

[nova gale]

I think we should make an exception and let Sappho be on the list

[wraith loom]

wow! i can't believe Леся Українка (1871-1913) contributed to lipu tenpo

[heady vigil]

sobbing

[nova gale]

We have only 14 ARR licensed entries lol

if we include blanks, we have 134

(out of the 686)

[carmine quarry]

good

which makes sense - a large percentage of Lapo is lipu tenpo, which is CCd

[nova gale]

Also, here is a chart i made of entries in poki by date

[carmine quarry]

its quite funny how linear our growth has been, yea

[nova gale]

yea i tought the same

i think the real curve is more exponential tho,,

[carmine quarry]

you could verify that by taking a derivative

i think the graph, as it stands rn, is slowing down not speeding up

but that has more to do with what we choose to collect, rather than a genuine reduction in community size

[nova gale]

ehhh,, i am not really sure, this represents the main branch and afaik more new texts are in wip branches

also this is quite spiky lol

or actually more like

that spike on 11.11.2020 is weird

ooooooh its utala musi

[carmine quarry]

yeah im pretty sure the vast vast majority of texts we have right now are lipu tenpo + utala musi

you can see any month that didn't have lipu tenpo or utala musi is at 1-2 texts

[nova gale]

i am not sure but i think that might just mirror the reality

[carmine quarry]

once we include song translations, for instance, i feel like this will shift quite a bit

[nova gale]

hopefully yea

56 entries from songs right now

also 88 from toki-library

[carmine quarry]

@vague coral please change month directory names from 1, 2, 3, ... to 01, 02, 03, ...

[vague coral]

aaa anpa

mi ni

[carmine quarry]

pona

ping me when you want to be reviewed

[vague coral]

li mu e @carmine quarry

[carmine quarry]

decide where (if?) to credit the illustrators
seems to be an open item

[vague coral]

ona la mi sona ala :p

nasin lapo li seme lon ni

[carmine quarry]

write them as a comment inside the frontmatter anu seme

future reviewers may then uncomment them if theres somewhere to put them

[vague coral]

a

[heady vigil]

# illustrators:
#   - mu

[carmine quarry]

i have a suspicion illustrators, proofreaders, etc shouldnt create tons of new metadata fields but instead use some sort of "contributor + contribution tag" system

[heady vigil]

fair ig

[carmine quarry]

cause this feels like the sort of thing thatll keep happening

with some other ways to contribute

[heady vigil]

it is

[carmine quarry]

i could be wrong tho ofc

[heady vigil]

shpuld we add sound designers

and video mastering

who knows

[carmine quarry]

i love it when a text library keeps track of sound designers

i get what you mean tho

[heady vigil]

you can say the same about illustrations

[vague coral]

mi lukin ala li ni

authors:
- waso I
# - waso U (illustrator)

[carmine quarry]

written sources have illustrations

[vague coral]

wile · taso seme la ni li ken suli ala e pali sitelen

contributors:
  - name: waso U
    roles: [illustrator, proofreader] 

ni li suli ike ala ike

[carmine quarry]

fuck idk

[vague coral]

-# nasin toki [KDL] li keeen pona tawa ni · taso i am not advocating for switching to it

[carmine quarry]

the benefit of yaml is that yaml-frontmatter is standard and supported by a relatively wide array of tools

[vague coral]

sona a

[carmine quarry]

we can probably afford to grow more "custom" only once the basic usecase is well polished

[vague coral]

ni li ike ala ike → poki "roles" li lon ala la ona li sama roles: [main author]

[carmine quarry]

ken

[heady vigil]

btw have we fixed the original-authors thing yet

[carmine quarry]

no

leaving it for later

• we have open PRs rn

it sucks to do schema changes when some people are relying on the old one

[heady vigil]

okk

[vague coral]

suno ni la mi o pana e [sona sin] pi jan [Alonola] · mi ni ala la o anpa e mi

[carmine quarry]

pona

[vague coral]

https://github.com/kulupu-lapo/poki/pull/32

mi pan a

https://derpibooru.org/images/2809202

[carmine quarry]

@vague coral is storyweaver mergeable

readiness wise

[vague coral]

mi la ken

[carmine quarry]

@nova gale could you remind me what DNS address you were putting the first prototypes of lukin Lapo up on?

[carmine quarry]

@heady vigil

[heady vigil]

YAYYY

[carmine quarry]

this is like, many weeks away from working properly

but its a thing we can do!

[heady vigil]

but it's something!!!

do we have a test site up or just locally

[carmine quarry]

locally

okay so first impression is

1. remember when i told you about wanting to force all dates to be yyyy-mm-dd and then adding a "how precise is the date" field

yea we're 140% doing that

[heady vigil]

lol

[carmine quarry]

2. a lot of images are likely broken so i imagine what will follow is a sweep of all poki files

[heady vigil]

Wikidata does that

oh

broken how

[carmine quarry]

i had to delete a file because it had an svg import

just to test the front page

which doesn't even show you the articles

[heady vigil]

also silly time zone

[carmine quarry]

the timezone shows up because all dates are currently strings

in my test env

[heady vigil]

oki

btw I'm taking a bike rn so I will be back in uh a long time

[carmine quarry]

the articles load!

[heady vigil]

centered

[carmine quarry]

images are apparently not completely fucked!

[heady vigil]

lol

kala :3

that's his name

[carmine quarry]

centered was my bad, fixed that

you know what for a first try its not as broken as i thought itd be

[heady vigil]

yay

[carmine quarry]

ofc search and tags and prev/next and filtering and so on

is the real hard part

[nova gale]

they are on lapo.dy.fi,, not up rn as im installing a new main server on my homelab

[heady vigil]

woag

dyfi

[carmine quarry]

dy.fi is a free dynamic DNS service offered exclusively for Finnish users
im assuming this is a temporary solution?

[nova gale]

(lapo.dy.fi/api/ and lapo.dy.fi/lukin/)