mini critique

[scenic hull]

WHAT

WHAT

[celest cipher]

why is Lipamanka jan Kekan San

[scenic hull]

HOLY SHIT REAL TIME MANDELA EFFECT

[craggy fulcrum]

I love mandalas

[scenic hull]

🤯

[narrow lichen]

Excellent

[craggy fulcrum]

idk why lipamanka jan Kekan San is

[narrow lichen]

Now think: what things make you and this guy fundamentally different? There are a lot of answers to this question

[scenic hull]

||No that is your average casual quickie||

[craggy fulcrum]

well. I'm jewish, he isn't

[narrow lichen]

But there are also a lot of things that aren't answers to this question

[craggy fulcrum]

I'm tall, he's like 5'8

[narrow lichen]

This is one possible answer

[narrow lichen]

Literally not even true

[lilac otter]

no idea why this repeated huh

[craggy fulcrum]

sldjflkjfslkdfj rude

I'm six foot

[past basin]

so your suggestion would be to call cis people normal as opposed to trans people? great

[narrow lichen]

Anyway now imagine you are looking at really strange metaphor gore and some fantastic cooking sequences

And that's NBC Hannibal

[craggy fulcrum]

I do think cis people are normal

/neg

like cis people are boring

[slow wyvern]

mid

[narrow lichen]

Normal /neg is kind of also the plot of Hannibal

[craggy fulcrum]

the only cool cis people are the ones who accept that them being cis is boring and that they just have to Deal™️ with it

[craggy fulcrum]

I love cooking

[past basin]

i do agree with what you say but its not perceived like that from most people

[narrow lichen]

We can solve thsi by mandating NBC Hannibal

[steel nexus]

Something something it's just like via sesi etc

[narrow lichen]

Sorry

Not true

Eyc

[lilac otter]

ahhhhh

[past basin]

transsexual and normalsexual, i see

[narrow lichen]

I've seen so many "good morning to all women (this includes normal women and cis women!)" posts that I have to do work to process these statements every time

[craggy fulcrum]

skill issue I guess?

like uh. become normal?

actually stop being normal

become awesome and spectacualr

[past basin]

you know what i wanna see
i want the finished blog post here to be published and to be shared on the mini subreddit and other relevant communities
and then see people actually try to respond and defend mini
thats gonna be fun

[narrow lichen]

I think we're losing the plot

[narrow lichen]

Found it again

[past basin]

dont worry i am very abnormal

/pos

[craggy fulcrum]

let's get married

[narrow lichen]

I don't know what that is o toki pona e ni

[craggy fulcrum]

o unpa pu e mi

[steel nexus]

Although I guess making a chart for variations would be alright

[slow wyvern]

Son Goku from Dragon Ball:

[narrow lichen]

mi pu ala

[narrow lichen]

OK I trust you

[craggy fulcrum]

o pwalala

[strong flame]

malviro

[steel nexus]

I'm so malviro viasesi pilled

[celest cipher]

it's what the author of mini would do honestly

[celest cipher]

wait you're lipamanka now

[thorn sundial]

I remember when this thread was about critiquing mini

[celest cipher]

wow that's so old

[narrow lichen]

Yes hi it's me lipamanka

[thorn sundial]

lipamaka

[narrow lichen]

I know things about linguistics and am rlly into oil paintings rn

[celest cipher]

Lipamaka is the tukitikised form

[lilac otter]

oh no, jan kekan san does not do well

ka Kika Ta

[celest cipher]

ijo Stella is iku Tila

[lilac otter]

anyways thats off topic

[slow wyvern]

what's the minimized form tho

[celest cipher]

iio Stella

because names don't need to follow the rules

fsr

or just Stella probably

who needs iio anyway

[slow wyvern]

so why latinize country names??????

[steel nexus]

Becauuuuseeeeeeee

Uuummmm

Recognizability

lawl

[celest cipher]

so that 'civilized' people can understand them

i suppose that means germans are barbaric to gruget as well

[past basin]

stella is a latinate name anyway so it really should go through with no issues

[celest cipher]

yeah it isn't 'barbaric' enough for gruget to change it

[slow wyvern]

true!!

[past basin]

in any case, i will not be tukitikizing my name

just to make that clear

[thorn sundial]

tila muti ala

[raven vessel]

li ki tila a. ka tu li tuki tiki i tuki li, ka tu li tuki tiki ala i tuki li. (the choice is yours. many people are tukitikizing their names, many people are not)

[thorn sundial]

taka tuki tiki li paka i tu ka /muti

[steel nexus]

Mini Kore and Mini Mundo

N. The titles are a bit nasa. The numbers are the amount of variations the word has, the numbers in each slice is how many words have that amount of variants

[raven vessel]

wh

7 synonyms for one word?

[slow wyvern]

the synonyms are just the latin versions of the words that come from the "diverse" cast of languages, aren't they

[steel nexus]

In a Lot of cases yes

Found this in the mini server

So I guess that solves that

[burnt lark]

Having synonyms is probably the worst feature you can have in an attempt of making a simple language

[craggy fulcrum]

i could probably think of like, dozens of worse features

like cycles of six words that rotate daily

[raven vessel]

personally i wasn't looking at it through a simplicity lens; i was looking at it through an IAL lens, and having synonyms from different language families is basically admitting defeat

[steel nexus]

my IAL has all of these words but if you speak a different language feel free to use the words of your language with your grammar

[narrow lichen]

You get a starter set of 5 words but you can buy a pack of 5 more words for just $0.99

Or if you want a great deal you can buy 30 words for $22.99

Or of course for our whales 500 words for $49.99

[craggy fulcrum]

10,000 words for only $99.99! you're already halfway there, why not add an extra 50 dollars to increase your words by 2,000%???

[narrow lichen]

TRUE

We also have limited edition words and we sell gems to access our word gacha

[craggy fulcrum]

you can unlock gems naturally but you start getting unlucky once you've earned 19 of them

and with promo code danny gonzales you can get a free isipin!

[narrow lichen]

free isipin

[slow wyvern]

you have to gamble some of your words away to have a chance to spin the gacha

so you can end up with 0

word debt????

[thorn sundial]

sacrifices must be made

[Inscryption gameplay]

“YOU MUST SACRIFICE THREE WORDS TO PLAY THAT LINLUWI”

[lilac otter]

what would having a negative number of words in your vocabulary even look like???

[thorn sundial]

it would turn you into an anti-being

[vague relic]

other people stop talking to you

[steel nexus]

you can only communicate by pointing at people when they speak

[vague relic]

autism

[steel nexus]

god.

yeah.

[celest cipher]

kay(f)bop(t) is that you

that should be next year april fools

[scenic hull]

So, uh, in conclusion

What did we learn from this?

[craggy fulcrum]

ials bad

[celest cipher]

grogu bad

[steel nexus]

claiming ur language uses words from all over the world and using languages as examples when u include only one of them bad

[slow wyvern]

stop making everything latin, that's not international

[celest cipher]

'oh yeah i used Mauritian Creole!'
uses 'mama'

that's the sort of international we love!

[neat yew]

LMFAOO

[steel nexus]

I used zulu (ubuntu)

[celest cipher]

again, i have never heard of that word before mini

is it really that widespread?

[neat yew]

i didn't know the operating system name came from that

[celest cipher]

i have never heard of the OS either

[slow wyvern]

linux

[celest cipher]

i guess i live anpa kiwen

[celest cipher]

but that's linux not ubuntu

[steel nexus]

It's widespread if u like compujter stuff

Like

[celest cipher]

oh

[steel nexus]

Yeah

[celest cipher]

well i don't use linux so

[steel nexus]

If ur a linuxer u know ubuntu

Otherwise it's not that widespread

[thorn sundial]

slightly related to ubuntu:
ntu is a pretty interesting Bantu root because it’s basically like ijo

“bantu” is a rough anglicization of the proto-Bantu reconstruction of the term, which literally means “people”

[amber veldt]

who up having ubuntu

[amber veldt]

woahg...

[celest cipher]

no way every single language family is called 'people'

i'm looking at you, pama-nyungan

person-person

[steel nexus]

person person

[thorn sundial]

oh that reminds me, Nheengatu’s name is morphologically similar to toki pona

literally “good language”

[steel nexus]

huh

interesting

[amber veldt]

so called free thinkers when their language is good

[dusky oriole]

friennd @tawny mantle made mme aware of this and it is making me scrunch up into sike lili

"Join us as we make a language simple enough for the whole world to speak." ❓

[amber veldt]

mfw a lot of words come from english (i already know them)

[dusky oriole]

tge whole world (english speakers)

[amber veldt]

it's so fucked it's like. trying to make an IAL on the pretense that there's already an IAL???

like ohh english right. im going to make english 2 now. this is somehow going to change something

[dusky oriole]

english reskin

english but a bit more colonizercore

[tawny mantle]

👋 toki

[dusky oriole]

toki kijetesantakalu o

[thorn sundial]

okay but tell me rason isn’t razón

clearly Mini translates to English in this chart. It’s a sign

[dusky oriole]

but 🥺 recognizability

[thorn sundial]

it’s a sign!

[zealous zealot]

hmmm well that's a high bar

english is veerry coloniserpilled already, having colonised a lot

[thorn sundial]

mini is more colonizerpilled by having a higher insensitive-word-to-neutral-word ratio!

[zealous zealot]

inchresting

also wild lmao like

[thorn sundial]

it’s pretty easy when you don’t have like. A million words

and also suffer from general ignorance

[zealous zealot]

indeed but also why have insensitive words in a language intended to be ideal

true

[thorn sundial]

umm because CLEARLY having a word for savage things is ideal to me

[amber veldt]

for an ial too... embarrassing

[zealous zealot]

hey we should be able to talk to everyone
and tell them effectively how much we hate them and devalue them as people of course what point is there in talking to them otherwise

[lilac otter]

i am not sure whether i would be more annoyed if the e at the end of have was silent or not

why is there an e there

same with make

[celest cipher]

it is not silent

[lilac otter]

whyyy

[celest cipher]

aavey

[lilac otter]

but also i would be annoyed the other way too

[celest cipher]

'recognizability'

[lilac otter]

just have it be av

[celest cipher]

no consonants at the ends of words

[lilac otter]

and 'make' is horrible for that reason

[past basin]

'av'

[celest cipher]

except loanwords for some unkowable reason

[lilac otter]

ah yes recognizability (and leading all english speakers to mispronounce your words)

[celest cipher]

unkowable lol

[lilac otter]

mah kay

[lilac otter]

oh, huh

[celest cipher]

except n because tokiponido

[lilac otter]

weird that its phonotactically more restrictive than toki pona with a bigger consonant inventory

[celest cipher]

also i meant syllables

[lilac otter]

oh wait except n

okay

[steel nexus]

What irks me the most is that it wants all of its consonant clusters to be fucking hiatuses

[lilac otter]

so just toki pona but... bad

[steel nexus]

Because nO dIpThOnGs

[celest cipher]

also 'tenpo' is spelled 'tempo'

the nasal assimilates

[steel nexus]

when romance languages are like. Hey man hiatuses are weird we either avoid them or have rules for them

[lilac otter]

thats not bad honestly

its what happened with words like impossible in english

[celest cipher]

it's actually how i pronounce toki pona

[lilac otter]

or ink but that one isnt written ingk because yuck

[celest cipher]

nanpa = /nampa/ tawa mi

[lilac otter]

yeah thats reasonable

but yeah, why change the vowel in me/mi but not in make or reason??

meke and rison would be better

and still 'recognizable'

especially when spoken

[steel nexus]

#toki-ale message
like this shit is so weird

[lilac otter]

i mean english does too

we love putting in y and w sounds between the vowels

[steel nexus]

Yeah no ik

English has very little if any hiatuses

Like u don't break syllables when 2 vowels meet

[lilac otter]

the only one i can think of is words with -awing

sawing

clawing

[steel nexus]

My point is that they purposefully made it so that all words are hiatuses ???

[lilac otter]

which my brain dislikes and tries to make into a dipthong anyways its weird

so like

claing

idk

tries to make it into the same dipthong as sign or my

[lilac otter]

yeah thats... weird

it doesnt just seperate the vowels?

or not allow two vowels next to each other?

[steel nexus]

The post I linked shows the most eggregious of these things

Where the word is literally "ia"

[celest cipher]

i mean, they don't have /j/

[lilac otter]

i cannot get my mouth to hiatus those

only /ija/ or /iʔa/

[steel nexus]

second

that is hiatus

[lilac otter]

well wouldnt that not be hiatus

huh?

[celest cipher]

i can do it with consonants on both sides

[past basin]

it never specifies what to do with these situations i think

[celest cipher]

/mial/

[past basin]

it just assumes we know?

[steel nexus]

Hiatus is when u separate what would otherwise be a dipthong into two syllables

[celest cipher]

because it says 'we have no diphthongs'

[lilac otter]

yes but not with a consonant, that makes it no longer in hiatus

[past basin]

buy minimalist language
"no diphthongs"
look inside
mui

[steel nexus]

ia, instead of being [ija] should instead be (from what I assume the creator wants it to be) [iʔa]

[steel nexus]

? wha

[lilac otter]

doesnt it?

[steel nexus]

No like i dont get what ur saying

[lilac otter]

i dont put a glottal stop in the word sawing even though its clearly two syllables

[past basin]

i dont think the author wants [iʔa] because thats not how english does it and english is all he knows

[steel nexus]

Oh

No yeah no my mega bad

[lilac otter]

for me thats the only real example of hiatus my brain is okay with

[steel nexus]

I was being goofybrained

[lilac otter]

but its just like

[steel nexus]

So yeah sorry. Not iʔa, probably just i-ja

or whatever

[past basin]

and even then some englishers insert a connecting r to split up the hiatus there

[lilac otter]

/sa.iŋ/ or something

(yes i use iŋ and not ɪŋ, i dont know why)

[lilac otter]

yeah! lots of british speakers do that. We hate hiatus for some reason

[past basin]

its based tbh

[lilac otter]

and like i said my brain does like to turn it into a dipthong

[past basin]

sounds cool

[lilac otter]

it doesnt want it to hiatus

it wants it to become /saɪŋ/

[steel nexus]

This language is just like

[lilac otter]

dont have my ipa keyboard for the diacritics right now

[past basin]

/sajŋ/

[lilac otter]

oh wait yeah

/sajŋ/

[steel nexus]

I want to seem cool by saying "no consonant cluster" and "no diphotng" when that is

Active hinderance of te langauge

[lilac otter]

very close to sighing, /sajiŋ/

[steel nexus]

If you want to seem cooler make rules like spanish or w/e

And then it can seem like u put thought into it

Instead of fucking

"make" and "erase"

[lilac otter]

mahkey eyrahsay

sounds like pig latin, lol

[steel nexus]

yeah

[past basin]

no remember e is pronounced [ɛ]

[steel nexus]

that gets me so bad

[lilac otter]

mahkeh ehrahseh

[steel nexus]

too

like

"Let's make an IAL... but to speak it you have to Not have a foreign accent in English... or any accent at all other than mine"

Just use the damn IPA

[lilac otter]

though, i guess it would be the pig latin of
kma sarah

[past basin]

i wish i knew the creators exact accent

[lilac otter]

oh okay

o is /əw/

good to know

[past basin]

oh no i wanna hear them speak their language and then criticize whenever they break these rules

[lilac otter]

u is clearly /ʉw/

[past basin]

of course

[lilac otter]

okay the other vowels there are kinda boring in my accent but eh

my accent hates back vowels though

(though i still have ɔ but only in dipthongy things like oi or or or ol

or or or

what a series of letters i just typed

[steel nexus]

or or or

[lilac otter]

he better not use ɪ or eɪ ever, that would be against the rules

[steel nexus]

i know they r gonna

wait

we are like

Looking at the light of a far away star (seeing mini how it was years before) because apparently the reason it was 878 words and not 880 is because they were removed

Does "piano" add semantic power

[tawny mantle]

me talking about my sofa and airplane in day-to-day conversations to enhance their semantic powers

[lilac otter]

(ah so they got rid of one of their three diversity words /j)

i guess the only /j in that is that they have more than three diversity words but...

yeah they got rid of one of the few non european words

[steel nexus]

it's so weird too

you definitely use the word teacher more than sofa and airplane but what do i know

[celest cipher]

what is the banner for r/minilang 😭

[amber veldt]

Mini-Lan

[celest cipher]

i meant minilang

i'm so tired rn

it took me 4 edits to spell the sob emoji correctly

and i didn't even notice the land

i did

sib

[amber veldt]

a a

[celest cipher]

oib

🅱️si

and finally 😭

[slow wyvern]

i wanted to ask why the fuck did kamera (room) even have the alternate definition of "camera" (📸) in the first place, but i already know why. and i hate that

[amber veldt]

guru removal

[past basin]

because latin

[amber veldt]

irritate is iritate :harrydubois:

[dusky oriole]

i send thsi again https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/301377942062366741/1223497458273746964/image.png

[thorn sundial]

“toki pona is newspeak omg!” la mini is probably the closest we’ll get to newspeak

[tawny mantle]

rebele simply means all of revolution, rebellion, and treason. three equivalent and neutrally connotated words with no greater implication caused by confounding them

[steel nexus]

totally :) I love mini :) wow :) :) :)

[celest cipher]

gruget is literally king charles' alter ego honestly

[acoustic orchid]

I thought this thread might be interesting - but 1357 messages in 2 days? I'll never catch up.

I guessed from scanning that - it's bad? And then I went to the website and I hated it just from the word list.

[dusky oriole]

yueaa rwrhbghjh - = ;;

theres a lot of weird stuff liek predominantly taking from english for "recognizability", taking from non-european languages Only for the words that are on the "weird" side (there is a word for magic: "maji". there is also a word for curses and hexes: "vudu" (credited to english???))

pointless synonyms . .. grouping conflicting meanings under one single word (sesi: sex (anatomy), sex (the act), gender) (rasa: race or ethnicity)

eurocentric night mare

[scenic hull]

How different is ia (mini) to ija (toki pona)?

[dusky oriole]

well

[acoustic orchid]

It sounds like an excellent source of bad nimisins

[dusky oriole]

they specifically say there's "no dipthongs"

[steel nexus]

I didn't really ever share this (because I wasn't finished + I forgor) but I have the charts here if anyone wants to take a looksie at them

[dusky oriole]

so people hav been theorizing its a hiatus ? ? ? i think'

not pronounced like ija, but like i a

[steel nexus]

And if you want me to make charts of other stuff I am also down 2 revise

[scenic hull]

❓

I don’t understand that

[steel nexus]

I think we actually don't know how they want us to pronounce it

[upper bramble]

what is an IAL?
international auxiliary language?

[steel nexus]

Cuz they never say

[steel nexus]

yes

[dusky oriole]

yuea pretty much 💥

[tawny mantle]

another sleight of mini is it trashing toki pona for being a "baby"ish sounding conlang with "rampant ambiguity" for no reason

[dusky oriole]

fucking yeah : !!!

[steel nexus]

If you put two vowels together they have to be a vowel hiatus, because no dipthongs allowed. But they never explain How to pronounce them

But you should already know because you speak english

[scenic hull]

/i’.a/?

[dusky oriole]

going like "toki pona is such a cute language . baby language for babies . ambiguous" before hitting us wwith 120 wrods + 880 word dlc and rasa (race or ethnicity)

[steel nexus]

yes

[scenic hull]

Is there a difference between /i.a/ and /i.ja/?

Is /j/ even closer or something?

[steel nexus]

But does it have a glottal stop or not? We don't know. Probably not because the person wants it to be "as close as english" as possible

[dusky oriole]

yuea as we know its pronounced like english

(phew!)

[steel nexus]

And you know they pronounce it as the latter

[scenic hull]

Hm? Can you word that differently? I kind of got lost 🥲

[gritty shell]

😭😭

such a great IAL

[steel nexus]

As you know that the person who created mini probably says "ija"

[gritty shell]

especially with J being pronounced exactly as english /j

[dusky oriole]

🤬 nooooo but theres no dipthongs

fuckicng j

senjore destroyts me

every time i remember it

[scenic hull]

it isn’t a diphthong?

😵‍💫

[slow wyvern]

ia is pronounced iya (y in yupekosi)

[steel nexus]

The language specifically says "no dipthongs" so it can't be

[scenic hull]

Oh I forgot yeah

[gritty shell]

easiest stars a message has every gotten

[scenic hull]

But I can see that a language may omit the /j/ next to an /i/ or treat /i.ja/ just like /i.a/

It should be explicitly mentioned though

That is bad design if one wants to make a “unique” and “regular” international language without conflicting interpretations 🫢

[thorn sundial]

grinning ear to ear like the grinch

[raven vessel]

instructions unclear, pronounced <g> as /dʒ/

[slow wyvern]

oh so i should pronounce <t> as ɾ? got it

[neat yew]

english orthography, clearly the most international system

[dusky oriole]

ecactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as we all know english is thhe main language

[neat yew]

i like how theres an f-v distinction but not a s-z distinction and x/dZ/ without x/tS/

[sinful snow]

/d͡ʒ/
/t͡ʃ/

[slow wyvern]

pronounced exactly the same as they are in english? (phew?) so then j is pronounced like the english word jalapeno, l is pronounced like the first l in the english colonel, etc.?

[zealous zealot]

yes

[lilac otter]

nah its obviously a glottal stop

[spice aurora]

i don't even WANT to deal with that whoke can of nonsense

[acoustic orchid]

nasin seme la toki mini li ken tokiponido? (mi lon ma Siko tokiponido; toki mini li lon ma mi)

[celest cipher]

because it was based on toki pona

[acoustic orchid]

ni li ken lon anu seme?? taso tenpo ni la ona li ante suli. mi ken lukin ala e ijo pi toki pona

[celest cipher]

i'm playing devil's grugets advocate here, but maybe the particle system and the fact that anything can be a verb noun or adjective?

[acoustic orchid]

a mi sona lili a e nasin pi toki ni. mi lukin e nimi taso. mi kute e ijo pi tomo ni la, mi wile ala sona suli e ona!

[gritty shell]

the english word jalapeno

[slow wyvern]

it hurt me to write that too

[thorn sundial]

see if it’s jalapeno then it’s English but if it’s jalapeño then es del español /musi

[dark rock]

noted

I like what you're doing here

[craggy fulcrum]

yeeee

write a paragraph for the word's definition

[steel nexus]

THAT IS LITERALLY HOW THEY TREAT SOME WORDS THOUGH

ITNSKSHQJSHQ

vudu is first and foremost attributed to English "voodoo"

And THEN two languages from where it comes from are attributed. And like. They still wrote it as vudu instead of vodun

[lofty moth]

they have so many words for colors? like do we really need pink in an auxlang

[slow wyvern]

what's pink, "rose" or something?

[lofty moth]

yep rosa

they also have gold and silver as just colors, even grey

[spice aurora]

I have been a little busy lately -- Will work on this more when i can

[vague relic]

my step dad pronounces it english j every time and if you pronounce it properly he's like "well why is there a j then"

[slow wyvern]

ask him to pronounce jalapeño

(with the ~)

[vague relic]

he doesn't care about the ~ i don't think

[celest cipher]

dzhalapeno

[steel nexus]

Zang

[thorn sundial]

KDJSKJDJS

[vague relic]

like to the point where when i said it correctly he corrected me

[thorn sundial]

“then why does it have a j?”
“because english is the most lazy and colonial language”

[steel nexus]

"It's dzhalupeeneeo"

[celest cipher]

the ultimate power move

[thorn sundial]

if English was slightly more sensible it would be like hallerpinyoe or something

[vague relic]

can you imagine how much worse that's be

[amber veldt]

docta peppa. pepsey. munsr. hallerpinyoe

[steel nexus]

CDJBHGDJHGDJGHDGVHD

[thorn sundial]

see it’s perfectly English now

[fallen shard]

imo english should be writing more loans like native words

[lilac otter]

halapenyo

as a compromise

[fallen shard]

like. curry and uh. old world animals that i forgot the name of

wait aren't these the colonial words

**new world

[lilac otter]

cosplay is techically adapted from japanese

kosupurei

but japanese took it from english originally

[steel nexus]

Please do not go after this person etc., but I think this is a reason for why this language as an IAL (and IALs in general) as they currently stand just fucking Suck. Like not only because they push away languages from already marginalized cultures and groups, yes, but because like. There are so many funky and awesome constructions and bits of culture that reflect on languages and then back to its speakers that you just. Lose by trying to "unite" everyone in a language that is going to be derived some way or another from the way the creator sees the world

[lilac otter]

"costume play"

[fallen shard]

reborrowing right

[steel nexus]

Huh

I did not know That One

Interesting

[lilac otter]

yeah, something like that

technically you have it going on in things like
level + up → レベルアップ (reberuappu) → level up
as well

[celest cipher]

just like anime

[lilac otter]

though anime is spelled like romanized japanese

[celest cipher]

animation --> anime (too lazy to write kana) --> anime

[lilac otter]

so not really adapted

[fallen shard]

alternatively more spelling pronunciations

anime rhyming with align

[celest cipher]

anajm 😭

[slow wyvern]

amnimeighe

[celest cipher]

hamnimeighe

hmighe therefore is silent

so

hmighehmighehmighehamnimeighehmighehmighehmighe

= anime

[slow wyvern]

btw i actually pronounce the m's in mnemonic, i just did a__mn__imeighe because i know some people say nemonic (like how some people say terodactyl or sychology)

[celest cipher]

do you pronounce the p in ptero?

[slow wyvern]

yes (it's fun)

i recommend it

[celest cipher]

actually people who don't pronounce the p in pterodactyl shouldn't pronounce it in helicopter

[slow wyvern]

helico + pter : spiral wing (:

[amber veldt]

[hɛl.ɪ.kɒʔ.ə] anu seme

[celest cipher]

yeah

[amber veldt]

fascinating.

[narrow lichen]

Oh that's so hard bc it's so extremely not just the silent p for me

"pter" in "pterodactyl" for me goes silent p aspirated t full vowel then r (the "er" is homophones with the word "air")

And while the t in "helicopter" Is aspirated for me the word final "er" is the single r vowel

[slow wyvern]

pteɚɹoʊdæktɪl

[narrow lichen]

And if the p is silent then it's the same kind of sequence of sounds as "water"

In which it's Super unnatural for me to aspirate the t

[slow wyvern]

speaking of pterodactyl,
wing-finger

[fallen shard]

ooh calques

they're fun

[narrow lichen]

I think it's the cot/caught vowel in "helicopter" actually I think my accent doesn't allow aspirated t after it? Or not disallows but it feels Really unnatural

[slow wyvern]

do yall pronounce the p in pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis anu seme

[steel nexus]

no

p hater

[zealous zealot]

apparently the correct pterodactyl pt pronunciation is the same as the one in helicopter

[slow wyvern]

there is no correct pronunciation

"correct pronunciation" is a hoax by Big Sound to uhh make pronunciations rarer and thus higher in value for selling

[steel nexus]

TRUEEE

[slow wyvern]

short run aggregate supply go uppies → price level go downies (but rGDP go uppies still yay)

[thorn sundial]

p’neumonoultramicroscoicsilicovolcanoconiosis

man this word is literally just a bunch of random roots thrown together

it is silicosis

[craggy fulcrum]

can you send recordings of those words

[upper bramble]

That sounds like you pronounce Pterodactyl like [p.tɛ.ɹ̩.dæʔk̚.tl̩]

Just like how I used to!

[summer swallow]

those are actually part of the vowels, the standard transcription system with /eɪ iː aɪ oʊ uː/ is based on Received Pronunciation as it existed in like the 60s (and stopped existing shortly thereafter in the 60s), it should be more like /ej ij aj ow uw/

iirc the /r/-insertion happens in places where the vowel isn't already a /-j/ or /-w/ diphthong

anyway good luck with the writeup please add space between paragraphs

[upper bramble]

inactivity

[prisma grail]

channels can get inactive when people don't use them .

you don't have to remind people when a channel is inactive . let conversation occur naturally .

[lilac otter]

ag, yes, exactly. Though my accent doesn't do r insertion

phonotactically the vowels that don't have j or w at the end are pretty limited in where they can go, like ɪ, ɘ, ɛ, and æ almost always have to have a consonant (but not j or w) immediately after them

or well æ can have w after it but thats its own dipthong thing (how /hæw/)

[lilac otter]

the only vowels that don't require a consonant immediately afterwards are a and ɐ (strut in my accent), which can go at the end of a word (like comma or saw), so if i add -ing to them, that's the only situation i have vowels in hiatus

sawing [sa.iŋ]
uh, comma-ing? [kʰa.mɐ.iŋ]

though my brain really doesnt like doing the second one, huh.

and also, the first does like to turn into a dipthong aj in fast speech, so sawing is [sajŋ]

so sawing and sighing are very close to homonyms, yay

[summer swallow]

the secret sixth long vowel

[lilac otter]

to be honest i have no idea what's happening with vowel length most of the time, i just ignore it cause it's not phonemic (yet)

[summer swallow]

"long vowel" as in the English phonics sense of "says its name"

iirc they actually tend to be clipped shorter?

[spice aurora]

i write long paragraphx

[steel nexus]

A, linking back to this just in case. Though the "variants" part is kind of useless now after knowing they're not necessarily synonims, but the graphs exist there for whatever anyone looking may need

[cerulean hinge]

Something interesting about the language I saw was the apparent inconsistency in what words they chose

Why a word for table but no word for chair?

Why a word for answer, but no question?

[craggy fulcrum]

good point damn

[cerulean hinge]

Oops I didn't look further than the Kore section

There is in fact a word for chair, and answer, but they're in the Mundo section

Yeah, but I guess my main point is, why on earth is there a word that only means table in the "Heart" of the language

[dark rock]

so I may not like mini

but hear me out

using e with no li for an implied "to be" wasn't the worst idea

[thorn sundial]

if you wanna stick really hard to verbal/nominal analysis, yeah it’s not really that horrible

[lilac otter]

yep, pretty much just a zero copula type of thing

makes sense to me

[spice aurora]

it's knockoff toki pona

[remote finch]

boki gona

[fresh sundial]

welcome to mini critique, the show that gets fact wrong about YOUR favorite mini

[summer swallow]

mi ni

[summer swallow]

Apparently, Mini is the only language besides TP to be mentioned under [[w:minilang]]

[opaque cloak]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/w:minilang

[summer swallow]

Only a primary source (the language's website) is given, so i'm wondering if it was added there for self-promotional purposes…

I haven't really seen any sources having to do with it, beyond the creator's content and the existence of a subreddit

[craggy fulcrum]

the addition of mini seems to be done by someone who is now banned from wikipedia

lukin sin la it was added by Caro de Segeda originally

[remote finch]

bro how do you get banned from wikipedia

[craggy fulcrum]

@naive rune could probably give you a very long list

[thorn sundial]

it’s very easy actually!

[prisma grail]

most extreme reasons I've seen people get banned: violent crimes

least extreme reasons: picking some weird stylistic hill to die on

a gatinha com mãos ↩️

[Reply to:](#1223736653340741642 message) @naive rune could probably give you a very long list

[craggy fulcrum]

👀

[prisma grail]

assuming that the person in question here was Sbb1413, their ban was somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. Low-quality edits, poor communication, and racism. (The rare reverse "Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking".) Apparently I was part of getting them banned, which I'd forgotten.

[craggy fulcrum]

oh fun

one of these days i'm gonna do a wikipedia ban speedrun where i turn on the counter, dm you "hello i'm doing a wikipedia ban speedrun, can you ban my account temporarily?"

and then win

[lilac otter]

make sure to have the dm text copied before hand so you can paste it quickly

[craggy fulcrum]

right of course

[prisma grail]

Well, admins can't unilaterally ban people, and even if you just try to speedrun a block, I'm not an admin anymore, but other than that, great plan 😄

a gatinha com mãos ↩️

[Reply to:](#1223736653340741642 message) one of these days i'm gonna do a wikipedia ban speedrun where i turn on the counter, dm you "hello i…

[craggy fulcrum]

YOU ARENT??

[prisma grail]

Not on enwiki at least

[celest cipher]

and also let the person know beforehand for the minimum time

[past basin]

if youre on french wikipedia, all you have to do is be queer

[remote finch]

horrible😢

[raven vessel]

oh yeah, i heard that the WMF is contemplating stepping in in regards to frwiki being horrible

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Community_Affairs_Committee/2024-03-21_Conversation_with_Trustees/Conversation_about_Francophone_Wikipedia

[past basin]

finally

[nocturne bobcat]

AYO

[spice aurora]

bumping because i want to finish this actually

[past basin]

owo

[main burrow]

Anyone still active in the Mini server?

[soft onyx]

Okay uh
This sounds like eurocentrism

[cerulean blade]

lon (see [here](#1223736653340741642 message), and [here](#1223736653340741642 message))
Mini is bad in a lot of ways ontop of eurocentrism though

[spice aurora]

@glossy lotus bumped

[spice aurora]

because it's knockoff toki pona. they probably just want it to be equivalent supa and include both

[main river]

can you put a list of disadvantages of this language?

and also I need a reasons with examples too

[storm sphinx]

not sure how far people got or how up to date this is, but https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K2jQbIGyMhcTRo8pvqUviv-xEczRBd_J/view
I only had a quick glance to check it was the right document

[neat yew]

Note that Mini doesn’t use articles like the or a. It also doesn’t have tenses or plurals or cases. So you end up sounding a little like a caveman: “Me eat. Bob make food
this is interesting(ly terrible) to me because like. mandarin chinese also doesn’t have tenses or plurals or cases. i guess i’m a caveman then

[junior loom]

very anglocentric view on a lack of articles

like... this only sounds like caveman speak in english because of how english grammar works

[junior loom]

(this is actually called Bread, Eggs, Milk, Squick)

[glossy lotus]

oh christ this is so racist

@spice aurora we should really get back on this
i ahve to work on something else tomorrow but maybe we can do so after mtpvr

[lilac otter]

yeah, as soon as you learn a language without articles or plurals and get used to it a bit you just kinda realize its not that important, and that context can be used for those things just fine in a lot of cases

(at least that was my experience learning japanese, which has neither)

it does have tense though

although no dedicated future tense

its past/non-past

[junior loom]

okay the seperate particles for objects as nouns and objects as adjectives is cool in theory, but the fact that they're both just one vowel alongside the verb particle makes the difference really hard to hear

and if you're gonna do that, at least use "a, i, u"

because it seems like it would be hard to tell the difference between "Animale i manja" and "Animale e manja" in irl speech or voice calls

or between "Da e duro" and "Da a duro"

also that's weird

a b d e f g i j k l m n o p r s t u v
did this dude just take the latin alphabet and remove h q w x y z

and like

w is quite common crosslinguistically iirc

If you like, you can pronounce /v/ as /w/, /f/, or /b/ and still be understood.
two of those are other phonemes in the language, so unless it's really just a small vocabulary with really high stelletos, I can't confidentally say this is correct.

Each letter matches its International Phonetic Alphabet pronunciation with the exception of J, which is the English /dʒ/.
🤮

🤮

okay they don't have semivowels at all, I guess that's SOMEWHAT acceptable

but fucking english /d͡ʒ/???

I'm sorry, pipi means WHAT?

[weary briar]

Words including v: ave leva savi vasa veji veni vere via viro viva vole avion aviso bovi develo dive divi envi environ eve evento evita fava favo fevere gove inventi inveti invite kavalo kave kova kuve lava levi move muravi navi navu neve oven ovi ovo pove revela riva saliva sava savaje savon seven severe sivi suave tavan tivi tovari univesa vaga vagen vakansa vakili vaku vali valu vanila vanita vapo vare vari vasanta ve veka vela ven vende vendeta venemo venera ventana vento vepon vese veta vibe video vila vile vina vinge vino vinta viola violensa vipi viru visita voka vola vomi vori vote vudu vuma vunda

[junior loom]

do any words containing v have an copy that's distinguished only by the use of /f/ or /b/

[spice aurora]

ugh yeah im leaving town for the weekend
this is one of those things on the lust of "things i should do but i can't get myself to find time for it"

[junior loom]

as if they wouldn't try to sound it out (or haven't used pinyin once in their entire lives)

[weary briar]

Of course Mini is not so silly

The critique here on phonology at least makes some sense for me, but I am not sure the extent

lon la, word anticipation and word recognition are noticeable when listening in any language

and I guess that only making phonemes of a conlang clearer contributes nothing to better listening

[weary briar]

mi sama

Does this mean 民 man⁴ in Cantonese

[strong flame]

mi kama sona e ni: jan poka wan mi la jan poka wan li jan pali pi toki ni

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-grugett/ ona

[weary briar]

kutokiju la jan li lukin e toki mini lon tenpo mute. taso jan li awen toki wawa ala

[wintry cape]

hello! someone linked to me this discussiin thread and i found it really interesting! about queer expression: if mini had a word specifically for gender/gender identity, would that fix most of the problems with mini's representation of queer people, at least in the language itself?

i am really interested in mini, and it pains me to know that there are issues within and about it that have not been properly addressed.

[celest cipher]

it would certainly be an improvement over the current merging of sex, sex, and gender

but really the main problem with mini is its eurocentric nature and then its creator claiming that being eurocentric is not bad and accusing mini of being eurocentric is in itself a eurocentric view

[spice aurora]

Here's the unfinished draft document about the language's issues as a pdf