good nimisin

[severe sun]

wan

[rancid glade]

b b b b but i want to nimisin ike

[lapis kettle]

"ona"
nimi ni li sin pona li weka e nimi "iki"

[rancid glade]

funpak - good question. idk either
(<whateverthefuckronsaid f(unpa)k)

[rapid vault]

kijetesantakalutu

kijetesantakalu taso ona li tu

[finite frigate]

fun pack

pana musi

[severe sun]

jan seme li kipisi e kijetesantakalu

ni la ona li moli

[rapid vault]

kipisi ala

kijetesantakalu li lon, kijetesantakalu ante li lon kin

[severe sun]

ni li ken ala lon /j

[rapid vault]

mi pali e one

mi pali e kijetesantakalutu

[echo pier]

aku - echo, shadow, to dilute, a watered-down version of something, indirect consequence, homage

[rapid vault]

kepeken sona mute mi

[rancid glade]

one /j

[echo pier]

sina aku ike e mi = u jacked my swag (and u are but a pale imitation)

[rancid glade]

pona mi*

sina aku ike e mi is
you badly imitate me

[echo pier]

I feel like u could get there with jasima and some modifiers but having a word lets u be more nuanced about references and emotions which is nice

[echo pier]

nah I'd say that's sina jasima ike e mi

I'm envisioning aku to be more focused on the idea of imperfect copies and ideas changing with repetition

[rancid glade]

then wheres the swag come from

either way

[echo pier]

you badly [imperfectly copy] me

[rancid glade]

its you badly [aku] me

[echo pier]

whereas I'd say if u aku pona e someone you're doing something inspired by their work

[rancid glade]

an imitation is an imperfect copy

[echo pier]

I mean yeah fair

but I'd say like the new star trek show is an aku in a positive way but that spider man fan film was a negative aku

[rancid kite]

I should try to make some good nimisin

[lapis kettle]

(how mean would it be to say that aku is a watered down version of sama?)

[rancid glade]

it wouldnt be too wrong

[echo pier]

one is in a lineage (changing, imitating, referencing but good) and one is a botched attempt to zone in on themes of the original work (imitation without understanding, copying aesthetics without understanding why they were chosen)

[rancid glade]

altho rn i think we're discussing the nature of aku rather than its validity

[echo pier]

deeply fair but surely that's because conceptually an echo is a watered down version of a perfect recording right

[lapis kettle]

too early to say if it's a bad nimisin (or a good one) because I've never seen it in use so far

[echo pier]

I like the idea of feelings or events being aku. like when you're cross because something happened and ur brain jumps back to being a little kid when it happened before. or reactive art or social movements being aku to events that caused them

okay lemme see if I can do another pitch let's go

antama - stuck, wedged, lodged, to trap an object between several others

[echo pier]

an inextricable portion of a larger object or idea?

sina pilin ike. ike sina li ken suli li ken lili. taso, ona li antama. ona li sina li ken ala weka kin.

akukani - regular; timed; seasonal; a smell, sight, or taste specific to a time of day or year

[severe sun]

jota - a kind, species, type or category

[echo pier]

nimi ni li sama nimi "kulupu" anu seme?

[severe sun]

ala

[echo pier]

a, o toki!

[severe sun]

ijo mute pi jota wan li sama. ijo mute pi kulupu wan li ken sama ala

[echo pier]

a, ijo ale pi jota wan li jasima li sama a kin anu ala?

[severe sun]

“jota kala tu li lon nasin telo ni”
-- there are two species of fish in this river

[echo pier]

n n n

[midnight whale]

ni li sama nimi kule anu seme a a a

[severe sun]

ala

nimi kule li color

[severe sun]

ni tu li ijo pi completely different

[echo pier]

oh shit I do love kule for species tho

[echo pier]

wait no racism

I was thinking about birds but actually sucks for people

dang if it wasn't for racialisation kule woulda been so elegant as a way to refer to types of things. like slices on a larger spectrum.

my friends have this thing where they say "in the society" to refer to ideas which have a lot of baggage in our world and "in the woods" to discuss those ideas with that baggage put aside for a moment

and kule for species is beautiful in the woods and terrible in the society

[midnight whale]

i've seen people using it to refer to gender as a spectrum

maybe that's been changed?

[weak citrus]

kule

usage

core (pu)

description

colorful, pigmented, painted | ALT of or relating to the LGBT+ community

etymology

← Acadian French couleur ‘color’

ku data

colour⁵, diverse², LGBTQ+², paint², lesbian², gay², spectrum² (source)

commentary

in addition to its pu-definitions, kule is sometimes used to talk about more general kinds of categories, like type, kind, flavour, gender, etc.

[echo pier]

yeah but I think that's already established vocab in the society whereas the idea that your kule places you automatically in groups with certain qualities is a rough one to generalise too much

[lapis kettle]

see commentary

[echo pier]

oooo

maybe ma pi toki pona is the woods

[midnight whale]

where do i find it?

[echo pier]

here

[midnight whale]

a

[echo pier]

okay new nimisin:
papopape - something out of place in a way that is almost admirable. pigeons making nests in impossible places, a very straight uncle coming to a queer wedding to be supportive, flowers growing through cracks in the pavement. as a transitive verb, describes aiding this blending and integration for the subject

[lapis kettle]

a
sama namako

[echo pier]

nnn, ala.

ona li ijo pi sama ala lon insa pi kulupu. ona li namako kin. taso, namako li ken toki e ijo sama sin. ijo papopape li sike loje sewi lon sitelen tawa pi walo en* pimjea

*mi sona e ni: nimi "en" ni li ike tawa nasin pu. taso, ona li pona tawa mi

[rapid vault]

a

[echo pier]

maybe make it even broader and call papopape "anything unexpected or contrary to a trend, random"

[rapid vault]

Is this thread just for discussing new nimisins in general?

[rancid kite]

a
sama nasa

[echo pier]

🤦🏻‍♀️ kin

[rapid kindle]

i think nimisins for "to be" and "to do" should be created (and "i am food" (mi moku) and "i am eating" (mi moku) finnaly be different)

[echo pier]

I feel like tok' apona had a fix for this

[rapid kindle]

nasa mute

[echo pier]

how about waleja /j

[regal sonnet]

sapi
few, rare, special, shiny, priceless

its kiwen with emitters

[rocky hearth]

^^^

[rocky hearth]

[[kule and poki]]

[urban schooner]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/kule_and_poki

[rocky hearth]

insa?

ijo li insa ijo tu li ken ala weka

[rancid kite]

but the state–action duality is really cool. i feel like for every case like this that this fixes, it creates multiple cases like "being good and improving things are now rigorously distinct concepts"

and that just misses out on a lot of insight

[gusty hazel]

lonsi

you know it; you love it

it's lonsi!

[rocky hearth]

you are in the wrong channel

[molten silo]

okipo - horrible, awful
(< FR horrible
(created as an "ike" version of epiku)

[rancid kite]

the SP should be epic face with angry eyebrows but still smiling (mischieviously)

[echo pier]

pupa - anything wider than it is tall

[rocky hearth]

epiku vs. okipo

[rancid glade]

angy!!!

[rancid kite]

okipo, from t okipo na

[rancid glade]

ARE YOU TRYNA CALL TOKIPONA BAD?!?!!???

[molten silo]

lon ala

[rocky hearth]

it sure is

[echo pier]

current favourite nimisin's gotta be eliki tbh

feels very in line with the philosophy of tp, despite being pretty narrow as a term

[rocky hearth]

ni li 'sona ala' / 'sona lili'

[burnt dawn]

kasolo - dog, wolf
(From Portuguese: "cachorro")

[rocky hearth]

ni li soweli

[burnt dawn]

[molten silo]

elen - animal, any organism
(< FIN eläin

now BEFORE you say "oh isn't that soweli" I think soweli should just mean land mammal. if it doesn't then we might as well get rid of kala and say "soweli telo"

[rancid glade]

NO!

soweli telo could be just a wet animal

o weka ala e nimi pu

[molten silo]

i know but i think the word for land mammal and animal should be different

might cause a lot of mixups

[gusty hazel]

soweli li soweli li soweli >;3c

[molten silo]

NOOOOoooo......!

[gusty hazel]

YEEEEEeeeeessss

........!

[rocky hearth]

ijo lon

living being

(if you believe that ijo can be animate, which many people do!)

[regal sonnet]

lan, konwe, dyfguyhkjmk,l.; everyone has done this

[molten silo]

damn it. well we need more e words anyway

[rancid kite]

mi elen

[rancid kite]

ijo can be animate but is not always,,

[rocky hearth]

true

that is what I mean

[gusty hazel]

that's just lan but an antonym

dies of cringe ingemat mysely

[regal sonnet]

- ejejewewelesemon
axolotl

[rancid glade]

ejejewewelesemon li pona tawa mi

taso

nimi ni li ike

a a a

[rancid kite]

@lilac gale

[split saddle]

What's the etymology lol

[rapid kindle]

this axolotl looks depressed

[regal sonnet]

i just made it up

[waxen mountain]

pili - bacteria, amoeba, any organism lacking the organization of plants and animals

[magic bolt]

sala
n: popularity, commonality, that which sits at the middle of a bell curve
adj: common, frequent, widespread, popular
v: to distribute widely, to popularize
(<TOK the average/most generic combination of all 61 CVCV widespread toki pona words
source spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1REmmL7Pzx4MKceUO0okUYpsxa-GLdp90Sr0QSDGNpys/view

[amber yarrow]

I cannot tell if ðis channel is genuine so I will make a mediocre nimisin to average ðe two channels

jansowa - a particle, atom, microscopic þing, a þing you can't see wiþ a naked eye (due to it's smallness), element,

[split saddle]

what’s the etymology of it?

[amber yarrow]

Me.

[magic bolt]

this is very likely a bad nimisin. I do like the word though and it has interesting origins, so I think I might change the definition

oke. mi ante e ona. o lukin sin

[onyx torrent]

i will also make a mediocre nimisin

awa - to dull, to discolor, to blunt (a point)

from toki pona “wawa” but defanged

[regal sonnet]

ike, pakala, kama wawa ala

[rapid vault]

tokijala - goodbye, to leave
(< TP toki + ala < EN talk + Ka ara)

[regal sonnet]

ok this isnt a nimi sin but

apply the mi rule to all of the pronouns PLEASE

i will never not want this

no one modifies pronouns

they are often used as modifiers but when was the last time someone modifyed ona, ni or seme

[rapid vault]

?

[regal sonnet]

yk how mi li is wrong, you omit the li

im saying we should extend that to all of the promouns, not just mi and sina

ni li sounds fucking stupid rjaiojfdios

[rapid vault]

what does tokiala has to do w/ modifying pronouns?

[regal sonnet]

nothing

i was just putting a weird nasin in the closest thing to a weird nasin channel

[rancid kite]

Even beyond ale modifier i do the first two a lot

e.g. ona jelo, "the yellow one(s)" of something just named

[regal sonnet]

yes, but this change wouldnt even change that

when do you say ona jelo on its own

ona jelo o can't mean ona li jelo o, because thats ungrammatical

ona jelo li- is the same

the only thing that changes is that a useless sentence fragment turns into a grammatical sentence

plus if it applies to ni and seme, you want have to say ni li

which sounds really stupid

[rancid kite]

hm

perhaps

[molten silo]

maybe you could make a weird nasin thread

[onyx torrent]

yeah those get a similar point across, though kama wawa ala is a lot of words
as i said, mediocre

[rancid kite]

honestly please

i feel like i've been missing the weirdness lately

need weirdness inspo

[gusty hazel]

onla - this word doesn't mean anything, but saying just this word is enough to travel across all of ma pona. it turns any sentence it's in inte a phatic phraseme, and can mean on extreme variety of things depending on context. to be continued...
atonal music intensifies

[burnt dawn]

lijanku - triangle, pyramid
From English: triangle

[rancid kite]

trrrreeongool

[regal sonnet]

**pentaken **- pentagram, star

[rancid kite]

but we have mun and yutu,

[regal sonnet]

woh i thought this was bad nimisin sorry

[waxen mountain]

selo pi pini luka

[split saddle]

tajanke would fit better imo

lijanku barely sounds like triangle

[rocky hearth]

can someone make a nimisin whose sp is necessary to drawn in colour

[split saddle]

is this a good nimisin or a bad nimisin

[echo heath]

mi sona ala e ni: nimi sin mi li pona. taso mi kepeken nimi "u"

• as a content word this means (to) hope: soweli li u
• as a grammatical partical it says who hopes: mi u sike sin sina li pona, I hope you have a nice year
• Without a word(group) before the "u", it means that what comes after is a wish to the recipient. u sike sin li pona a. Have a nice year!

I use this in my journal for things like, I hope to visit my grandparents again soon. It might have some overlap with "wile" but I personally feel like wile feels more needy more entitled, while u is supposed to be thankful

sitelen la:
sitelen pona, originally like o but with an u. now like a four-leave clover
sitelen suwi, a four-leave clover in a corner with a li-like circle around the words it has effect on

mi u lon sina li pona mute

[split saddle]

i think that this is covered by “wile”

[rancid kite]

Have been thinking for the past few days about a nimisin for something similar to resonation

I guess kind of like reverse olin but a lot broader

and more literally causing things to become alike the subject

[echo heath]

kama sama anu seme?

[split saddle]

jasima anu seme

[rancid kite]

that feels like the opposite but it could perhaps include that

as in the image of a literal mirror

[split saddle]

and “mi sama e sina” means “i make you the same as me”

[rancid kite]

true but that doesn't cover the excitement aspect of it

[split saddle]

can you explain more what you mean by resonation in this context

i don’t think i’m quite sure what you mean

[rancid kite]

like to vibrate in response to another vibration, to feel strongly in response to something evocative, stuff like that

[split saddle]

a sona

nn

[severe sun]

the one who hopes? esperanto much??

[echo heath]

a! mi sona ala e toki Epelanto. ona li "u" mute anu seme?

[rapid vault]

sitelen pona for tokijala:

[severe sun]

well, the name Esperanto literally means “hoper”

[gusty hazel]

lit

[gusty hazel]

literally five minutes ago

stop making toki pona lojban

[regal sonnet]

that makes no sense

[gusty hazel]

sina

li

toki Losupan

e

toki Pona

of course it does sense

[amber yarrow]

(pronoun) mute/kulupu/tu is weeping

[split saddle]

to be fair i don’t really modify ni, seme, or (to a lesser extent) ona but i still think they should have li

i think mi and sina should also have li

[regal sonnet]

whatever, extending the li rule doesn't even effect those anyway

[regal sonnet]

honestly that would be better than what we have now

[split saddle]

mute la mi li kepeken e nasin nasa ni

[chrome palm]

I absolutely apply mute specifically to ona and mi and sina

[split saddle]

taso ma pi kama sona anu ma ni la mi li ken ala tan nasa

[chrome palm]

Besides sina li just feels so natural

[split saddle]

sina li nanpa

[chrome palm]

(I will admit that mi li feels a bit weird though)

[split saddle]

ken

[regal sonnet]

i concede, this is done a lot, however, this has nothing to do with that
i often see people use this as an argument, but you realize the mi sina rule literally has an exception for this, right??? mi mute li, sina tu li, like, huh

ona mute li still has a li. its the same.

i dont see what pronoun modification has anything to do with expanding li dropping, or how its a counterargument to it

[split saddle]

the mi sina rule is the exception itself, the “mi mute li” follows the regular rules

[chrome palm]

if I say mi mute li pali, how do you know if mute is a modifier or a verb

[regal sonnet]

its an execption in an execption that makes it not an execption

idk "i multiply. i create." is obviously weirder than "we create"

[chrome palm]

What if I am multiplying and making something?
Is it not conceivable that this is something I could do?

[split saddle]

yeah usually context works just fine in this situation

[regal sonnet]

do you have like, a cloning machine???

mi mute, mi pali

there

[split saddle]

and there is a very low chance that you are doing that action

[regal sonnet]

💥

[chrome palm]

What if I am copying an artwork

[regal sonnet]

mi mute e sitelen

[chrome palm]

mi mute li pali e sitelen

[regal sonnet]

mi pali mute e sitelen

[chrome palm]

I would read that as I'm working on a drawing a lot

[regal sonnet]

ok

mi mute pali e sitelen

there are many ways to write this

[chrome palm]

Including mi mute li pali e sitelen

[regal sonnet]

yeah and im saying that it being ambiguous is fine, because you can write it in a different, clearer way

[split saddle]

but here the “mute” is not an action done to the sitelen as there is no “e”

it would need to be “mi mute e sitelen li pali e sitelen” i’m pretty sure

[regal sonnet]

i dupilicate, i plagarize art

[chrome palm]

I have never used that nasin

[regal sonnet]

yeah

[split saddle]

ken la i’m wrong

idk

[regal sonnet]

forging art isnt two actions anyway, its one

you arent duplicating and also seperately creating an art piece

you are copying it

one thing

context,

[chrome palm]

let's just say that I don't have this whole argument in my head whenever I want to say something

[regal sonnet]

ok ig

[chrome palm]

I just think that it would be easiest if there wasn't the added rule that there is no li after mi or sina

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't a reason why this rule is detrimental to communication.

[regal sonnet]

anyways, if there are any arguments against expanding li dropping, then surely those arguments apply to it already

[chrome palm]

But it is just an unnecessary addition to what's supposed to be a simple language

[regal sonnet]

it is

but mi li sounds stupid so 🤷

[gusty hazel]

you don't need to double the direct object for double the verbs

mi mute e sitelen li pali is fine.

[split saddle]

a

[regal sonnet]

**pen **- lower priority version of pi, like en in [[pi X en Y]]

[urban schooner]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/pi_X_en_Y

[split saddle]

so like “pi X pen Y”

[regal sonnet]

yeah

[rapid kindle]

atale - some, any
example: jan atale li lon kulupu atale. (any person belongs to any group.)

[rocky hearth]

❌ bad
just have nothing or 'ale'

[rapid kindle]

noooo

i dont know how to say in english, but in russian this nimisin is "Какой-то", what (i think) cant be say with any currently existing word

[molten silo]

saw this on the subreddit, thought it'd fit here https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/s/SaQydvA8DA

[severe sun]

pan

[molten silo]

no

[severe sun]

kili then

(it’s still me)

[gusty hazel]

kakoyto?

[rocky hearth]

it can't be translated literally, but it can be expressed

by context

Вас спрашивает какой-то человек.
Some/a man (person) is asking for you.
becomes
jan li wile (kama) e sina.

[rapid kindle]

oki

thank you!

[severe sun]

seki - lore, story, history

<- TOK sona & toki

[rancid kite]

where's the e from

sekai…………

[severe sun]

from the quantum fluctuations of empty space

[rapid vault]

shouldn't it be soki?

[severe sun]

may be

sœki

[agile sleet]

telise: tunnel, cylinder etc

From Turkish dehliz

ajuta: to help, support, aid etc.

From Spanish ayudar

ta: to, for etcZ

From Bulgarian да

It will replace tawa for dative/benefactive

tawa will only be used for movement

kewa: peace

From Japanese Heiwa

[rancid kite]

ligma shields up

[severe sun]

ojuta

[agile sleet]

Hmm

I did smth wrong somewhere

But what

[rapid kindle]

ojuta💀

[delicate plank]

nu - "unskilled, dumb, uneducated, new; to not know, forget"
< English noob
e.g.

sina nu ala nu?
~ Are you dumb?
mi nu e lipu ni!
~ I forgot about that book!

[rancid kite]

ha, if i have my facts correct there was a nimisin nu from "new". Doublet homophones

[split saddle]

wrong forum anu seme

[waxen mountain]

i removed awa

[rapid vault]

kejatasuntukulo - "yes (in polls)"
< TP kijetesantakalu (vowels moved up by one)

[waxen mountain]

can't we just use lon for that

[rapid vault]

this is just the in polls

[rancid kite]

trying to read this was like reading kijetesantakalu for the first time

[copper spade]

high effort. but is it good? there are like seven ways to do this in toki pona already. but they're. ike. tawa mi.

sawa - comparison, to compare.

--> nimisin ni li sawa ike lon nimisin ante. "this nimisin compares badly with other nimisin."
--> tomo ni li sawa suli tawa tomo ante. "this house is bigger than the other house"
--> jan Iwi li sawa e esun nanpa kili ni e nanpa pi ma esun ante. "jan Iwi compares the price for this produce and the price at the other store."
--> sona mi la, ona li sawa pali suli tawa sitelen jan ante. "they write more than anyone else i know."
--> *jan Suwi li sawa lili tawa ale! *"jan Suwi is the smallest!"
--> sawa ni ale li kama e wile lape mi. "All this comparison is making me tired."

<-- Swahili Sawa (same-as comparative)

[waxen mountain]

hmm

la works too

I think it's ok

[split saddle]

this is just the word “pona” i don’t see why this is necessary

[waxen mountain]

all of these are not necessary

[split saddle]

hmm i guess i comparative will help but i don’t think this is the way to go about it • mi la some kind of preposition is better

[split saddle]

this is the good nimisin channel

[waxen mountain]

ik but nimisin in general are not needed
using pu only also works

[split saddle]

yeah but to be “good” they need to cover a large semantic space that is typically hard to express using nimi pu taso

“awa” only expresses things that are already extremely easy to express with “pona” “wawa” and “mute” etc

[waxen mountain]

ok

then

no - opposite
boom now a whole bunch of pu words are bad
like lili = suli no, lete = seli no, etc
I don't think ala would quite work here. pana no = take, pana ala = don't give

[copper spade]

nn perhaps. i actually originally wrote this word out as a preposition (smth like nimisin ni li ike sawa nimisin ante,) but i was already using it as a content word to mean comparison, and figured that i didn't need to actually add another preposition. preps are neat and all but they're also a bit more complex than standard words, n?

nimisin sawa is Just A Word. no special rules whatsoever. extremely broad yet specific semantic space. the ability to use it for comparisons is an outgrowth of its definition, not the core identity of the word

plus prepositional sawa is a bit odd due to the rhyme with tawa. the words are too close in sound imo to make their common grammatical positioning identical too. and in that position, sawa conveys two ideas (comparison + directional). pilin mi la that could be split.

[split saddle]

oh interesting i see

nnn

i’m still not sure how necessary this word is in some ways but toki pona is lacking in comparatives so the idea is good

[waxen mountain]

how do you think about "no"

[copper spade]

plus lon and tawa as prepositions both combine in obvious and useful ways with sawa - object of comparison and field of comparison respectively. and the sawa e is left free for actually performing the act of comparing things. whether the act of comparing of multiple things takes place via serial e construction or via prepositional phrase again is probably up to the speaker, though comparing e smth tawa smth else mostly seems to me like a more direct synonym for comparing e smth e smth else, the former with a direct link that the latter leaves up to context

the other prepositions are less semantically instant, though, that's an issue. off the top of my head, the associations with every preposition that i Personally get are:

ijo ni li sawa suli... - "this thing is bigger.."

• ...tawa ijo ante. - than [other thing]
• ...lon ijo ante. - when it comes to [other thing]
• ...kepeken ijo ante. - ???
• ...sama ijo ante. - ", same as [other thing]"
• ...tan ijo ante. - "because of [other thing]

especially kepeken. i'm still mulling over kepeken. though idk if that's because it's semantically clear at the toki pona level but hard to translate into english, or if that's a core semantic limit of sawa.

the two thoughts i had were "using the criterion of [X]" (too similar to lon) and "by means of" (too similar to tan)

though if kepeken was analyzed more as a preposition of the actual act of comparing the things. then that's not an issue

but that raises questions about sawa as a whole. and the two slightly different hats (act of comparison, act of being comparable) that it's wearing

but again lots of toki pona words do this. and it's not that they're wearing two hats but that the hat ("comparison") is so big that no toki Inli hat can cover it. and so it looks like two hats to us

goes back to the mi moku interpretability

is mi sawa pona lon utala tawa "i'm better at races" or "i compare (things) well at races" ?

though i realise how foolish that question is now. seeing as the latter literally doesn't say what i'm implying it says. parenthesis and all. i'd have to phrase the latter as mi sawa pona e ijo lon utala tawa.

the difference gets covered between sawa PREP and sawa e

but kepeken might need to be covered under what's otherwise a sawa e domain, n? ona li sawa pona kepeken lukin mi. "it compares well using my eyes." is that in my eyes or via my eyes?

... it has to be via, aye. ona is the subject of the sentence. it is the one doing the predicate. and the former is just lon anyway

this puts tan and kepeken in a very similar semantic space. kepeken puts the subject in a slightly more active role as to the why it compares in that way (it was by employing thus!), while tan is more of a passive existential (it was because of thus.). but i mean that's a pretty lossless translation. it's purely vibes-based, and semantically communicates roughly the same thing

it could very easily be a preference of speaker. they're near synonyms

[split saddle]

it’s an interesting concept definitely

[copper spade]

very powerful particle, aye

though seeing as you mentioned core pu already has a lot of words that encode such opposites, and a lot of the most popular nimi sin cover the rest

plus, no prioritizes one adjective over another. like, semantically, lili = suli no would demote lili to merely being an inverse of suli, with the latter being the more "semantically prime" quality

and who's to make that judgement call? a lot of these are binary spectrums and, i don't think it's really possible to select an end of that spectrum as the default

at least not in any objective way

[waxen mountain]

MORE
sola - any animal
then:
soweli = sola ma
kala = sola telo
waso = sola kon
pipi = sola jaki

4 more pu words -> 🗑️

[glad dune]

I have a few nimisin that I’ve been cooking on for the past month, so I’ll share a few over some time. this one is my best one so far in my opinion
kepa - etymology is a priori. pattern, order, series, sequence, to arrange, to organize. this overlaps with the semantic spaces of nasin and sike a bit. this word also can be used as an antonym of sorts to jaki and nasa. kepa as a content word is mostly useful when combined with other words. some examples would be “tenpo kepa” (rhythm), “kepa pi kasi kule” (bouquet/flower arrangement), “kepa pakala” (disarray, chaos). I also like to experiment with using it as a preposition that means something along the lines of “and then”. some examples include “mi moku e kili li kepa tawa” (I ate fruit and then I walked), “mi en kepa sina li sitelen e nimi mi” (I will write my name and then you will write your name [nimi mi being used as “our names”]), and “jan lili li luka e soweli e kepa waso” (The child pet the animals and then the birds)

[glad dune]

nula - etymology is a priori. full, to fill. this is mostly used in contrast with jo/lon constructions. there’s a difference between “there’s many balls in a cup”/“sike mute lon poki ni”/“poki ni li jo e sike mute” (but there is still space to put more) and “the cup is full of balls”/“sike li nula e poki ni”(there is no more space to put more). you could say something along the lines of “sike mute lon poki ni la jan ala li ken pana e ijo tawa poki ni” with only nimi pu to try to convey the same thing. “nula nasin” could mean road traffic. “poki nula” would mean a full cup. “X li nula” can run into monsutatesu, but my solution to that is “X li nula” ideally means “X is filling” and “X li ijo nula” ideally means “X is full”. “pilin nula” would be used for feeling full after eating food

[glad dune]

natan - etymology is a priori. glass, transparent, through. this word can overlap with lukin. I often use this for saying things like “natan ike” for “translucent” or “mi lukin e soweli lon natan lupa tomo” (I look at the animal through the door/window). this one is pretty tentative

[severe sun]

palisa jelo Natan????

[granite wagon]

palisa jelo natan

[severe sun]

palisa ni li jelo ala

[waxen mountain]

palisa jelo li ken kili ala

[rapid kindle]

palisa ni li musi li nasa💀

[glad dune]

ni li natan!

[rapid kindle]

nimi "natan" li seme?

mi ken alasa e ona lon seme?

[severe sun]

@rapid kindle lon toki ni

[rapid kindle]

pona a!

taso mi lukin e nimi sama lon linku.la

nnn

nimi "nele"!

obscure 2%

[glad dune]

nele is sort of similar I guess? it’s more like “to uncover”

looking at it more natan is just like nele

eh I was kind of hesitant on natan anyway

I liked kepa and nula more

I guess the only reason why I don’t like nele that much is because it doesn’t really have much of a literal counterpart, but natan does (glass)

although I reckon you could just say “kiwen nele” and live with it

[rapid kindle]

nama - normal, average, usual, standart, convention, to normalize, to standartize

--> ni li nama a! "this is normal!"
--> sina lukin tawa jan pi te tenpo lili to nama "you are looking at average ancient man."
--> ni li nama nimi lon lipu pi ilo Linu "this is standart of names in the Linux code."
--> ale li nama la, ona li kama tawa sina "while everything has been normalized, they will come to you"

[split saddle]

“nasa ala”

[rapid kindle]

😡

[split saddle]

sorry i didn’t mean to make you angry, i just wanted to point it out /gen

[waxen mountain]

is this one good or not
ili - particle, atom, point, smallest unit
ALT decompose

[crimson sinew]

wente ko lili li weka

ko pi lili nanpa wan

[glad dune]

wente li seme?

[rough mantle]

when the

[glad dune]

not another English calque

[crimson sinew]

ni

yes more english calques

get them all

sike monsuta
jo e tenpo
pali e ijo

[dapper pawn]

is there an etymon?

[waxen mountain]

wdym etymon

[dapper pawn]

etymology, do you have it

[waxen mountain]

ijo + lili

[rocky hearth]

ijo

[glad dune]

just use ijo lili lol

there’s two trends with nimi sin: either it’s condensed toki pona phrases (e.g. ili, nimisin, omekapo) or it’s a tokiponization of an English phrase (e.g. omiko)

it’s more so the former

pilin mi la, there should be another guide to making good nimi sin

there’s Atawan’s guide but I want to make something similar to that with the additional step of “please don’t condense a toki pona phrase into a single word”

perhaps “jan Kolisin’s Guide to Making Bad nimi sin (and How to Avoid Making Them)”

[rough mantle]

omg yes ni li lon la pona mute

[jaunty helm]

Is there already a nimi sin for to sweep/brush/wipe/etc.?

[rough mantle]

Not that I’ve seen

[lapis kettle]

closest we have is this:

.post broom

[round linden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/301377942062366741/752071120550625290/Screenshot_2020-09-06_at_3.41.57_PM.png

#f141e0 broom

[jaunty helm]

Ok I think I’m going to try to think one up. I was just trying to write out a sp to do list.

[glad dune]

I love improving the floor using a tool

[jaunty helm]

I feel like its semantic space would include brushing hair, wiping counters, possibly petting animals, that kind of thing.

[glad dune]

swiping something on your phone?

[jaunty helm]

Yes!

mi toki taso Inli, so I’m not sure if I can come up with the best word etymology. I’ll think on it.

[rustic junco]

may i suggest "suwe"

[glad dune]

I’ll cook up something

[rustic junco]

its onomatopoeic but also connected to chinese 刷 (Mando shua4, MN soat) and viet quét

[glad dune]

suwa could be better

[rustic junco]

semantic space include brushing, scrubbing, sweeping, swiping (of cards, phones), scanning (of barcodes, QR codes), rubbing (of a surface), coating (of paint) etc etc

[rustic junco]

yeah it is on second thought

idk why i didnt consider it

[glad dune]

the viet word that’s why

[jaunty helm]

suwa li pona tawa mi

[rustic junco]

nah i thought of the chinese word first

[glad dune]

ah

[rustic junco]

i only thought of viet later on

[glad dune]

sowa could also be good for more disambiguation from suwi

although I think suwa is good enough tbh

[rustic junco]

yuh

[glad dune]

I think there should be more arabic derived nimi sin tbh

[wet lintel]

vietnamese soát meaning to search

[rustic junco]

mi suwa e anpa kepeken suwa.
I sweep the floor with a broom.

mi suwa e sinpin kepeken telo kule.
I coat paint onto the wall.

mi suwa e ilo sona mi.
I swipe my phone.

[rustic junco]

ooo actually we could add this to the semantic space?

but that would overlap with alasa

[wet lintel]

semantic space friction

[glad dune]

I think friction would be like uhhh utala suwa

[jaunty helm]

connect sweeping and searching for me

[rustic junco]

well really its more like browsing yknow

[wet lintel]

perhaps skiing down a hill is suwa

mowing .. controversial

[rustic junco]

chinese uses 刷 for browsing social media, or online shops and stuff

which is how i connected searching

but i guess theyre not really the same

[jaunty helm]

I guess in English sometimes you do a sweep of an area that is a search for something.

[amber yarrow]

mmmmmm fresh nimi sin

[jaunty helm]

Don’t know if other languages do that.

[rustic junco]

that could work honestly

maybe

[jaunty helm]

Yeah I think skiing has the same onomatopoeia

[rough mantle]

Wiktionary says 刷 can also mean to eliminate (coloquially), to grind (in a video game), and to spawn (in a video game)

[wet lintel]

thats really funny

i guess its like when a poll sweeps

[rustic junco]

yeah its true

i havent gaminged in chinese for a long time but 刷 is something i heard a lot

[glad dune]

suwa kepeken lukin

[rustic junco]

mi wile alasa e ijo la mi suwa e anpa

[waxen mountain]

but ijo lili could be any small thing

[finite frigate]

ijo lili lili!

[rough mantle]

ijo pi lili mute mute mute mute mute mute mute

[onyx torrent]

ijo lili a

[molten silo]

you could even use the word "lili" as a noun to mean something small

[stable abyss]

Right

And it is musi that the sense of ‘eliminate’ and ‘spawn’ make 刷 a contronym

[rapid vault]

olisa - image, idol,. etymology (Yoruba < orisa)

olisa mi jan Malijakali (my idol is Mariah Carey)

[glad dune]

when you say “image”, what does that entail?

[waxen mountain]

sitelen?

[finite frigate]

olisa mi li jan Malijakali

[rough fiber]

weird, despite following this thread it's not showing up on my sidebar

[rustic junco]

after a time of inactivity threads wld stop showing

[lilac shuttle]

miko - “simple creature”, used for cells, microorganisms, and eggs (which are a big single cell). Semantic space includes anything small or simple which is derived from a living thing or is alive.

mi moku e miko waso - I ate bird eggs

mi lukin e miko jaki kepeken ilo - I see a virus through a microscope

The sitelen pona glyph depicts both an animal cell and an egg

Alt glyph is a tardigrade!

[split saddle]

mi kepeken ilo lukin e miko jaki
this sentence doesn’t really make sense

i’d say “mi lukin e miko jaki kepeken ilo”

[lilac shuttle]

good point, I should fix it

[severe sun]

consider this:

mi kepeken e ilo

[crimson sinew]

i would probably interpret it as "i make the virus use a looking glass"

[lilac shuttle]

Got it fixed, tysm!

[rustic junco]

miko is a cute word

[lilac shuttle]

Ty!

[west fulcrum]

@valid lily you should post that one nimisin here

[valid lily]

STOPP i made it like a year ago

unless you're talking about the other one

i'll go get both why not

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/375591429608570881/1096199746101723267/image.png?ex=65ea3f11&is=65d7ca11&hm=843059f2c1a0ae265b691740771f0bd14e1067ddb03b4c38dada9558410cffe0&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1201910367261827102/1211718592081567774/lansa.png?ex=65f87260&is=65e5fd60&hm=69d7547cb6a6dceafb35c66828107db6bb2a8cbdb3d1c72a66b0c3609ea83769&
these are mockups i made with inspect element

[valid lily]

yeah these are primarily based off of personal gripes i had at some point when i got frustrated about not being able to easily convey a certain concept

[west fulcrum]

pasa <3

i use pasa in my journal

i am the entirety of the <1% of pasa users

(though i use the three dot : glyph for pasa)

[valid lily]

these are the three glyphs im considering

middle one i like but it's too complex

[glad dune]

pasa reminds me a bit of kepa with the “series of events” sort of meaning

[valid lily]

oh yeah i really like that one

the word kepa i mean

[glad dune]

!!

I have a new rough idea for a decent nimi sin bouncing around in my head

[valid lily]

ooh

[rough mantle]

Is it a nimisin for bouncing

[valid lily]

a

[glad dune]

I was mostly looking through kata.nimi.li (the nimi.li fork for the tokiponido nemune) and stumbled upon the word “mote”, which roughly means transience and impermanence

and I was like “oh hey I just thinking about how to express that in toki pona a while ago”

so I was kind of like “there should be a nimi sin similar to this in toki pona”

mostly working on a physical concept to tie it to

right now the “word” itself is nuwe, which comes from the Arikapù word nuenue for rainbow

[valid lily]

beautiful etymology

[glad dune]

and I was like “whoa that sounds like a fun word and plus having an initial nu is nice”

[valid lily]

i feel like it could be lumped in with a word for "fast" as that concept is already not very easy to convey in tp. im not that familiar with the whole nimisin scene so i dont know if a word like that already exists but it bothers me sometimes

[glad dune]

i think wiki has been proposed before for that meaning…?

pretty obscure

[valid lily]

huh interesting

[glad dune]

although I will keep speed in mind, that could work I think
for fast I like to say something like “kepeken tenpo lili” or “suli pi tenpo lili”

[valid lily]

kepeken tenpo lili is the one i use but it still bothers me a little because like. something that moves fast can still be moving for a long time. maybe not in the simplest contexts that toki pona is for, but still

[cursive sedge]

so pasa is tenpo and lansa is waso?

interesting

[valid lily]

yes but not quite? i didn't think of waso for the airborne meanings of lansa, i like that

pasa overlaps with tenpo and kama and sona

[cursive sedge]

and toki!

[valid lily]

yeah!

[glad dune]

lansa would be waso to me, perhaps kama waso

[valid lily]

i forgot waso could be used like that

i was thinking it more overlaps with pana for throw/shoot

[glad dune]

throwing something to someone else could be pana yeah

pana waso…

[valid lily]

pana waso is. good

[glad dune]

maybe like flowers? they’re pretty generally transient

I should probably actually brief a more complete nimi sin and not openly brainstorm one here in this thread lol

[granite wagon]

tonsi

^^that's a pretty good nimisin

[glad dune]

REAL

I feel like that’s the only nimi sin that’s like actually superb

[weak citrus]

kalama

usage

core (pu)

description

to produce a sound; recite, utter aloud

[finite galleon]

siwin
Virus, Bacteria, Archaea, Amoebozoa, Apusozoa, Excavata, any kind of microorganism
origin:
Mandarin: 细菌 xi4 jun3 ‘Bacteria’

[glad dune]

interesting how people seem to keep making words for microorganisms

[rustic junco]

the people crave microorganisms

[glad dune]

the two things people want: connections and microorganisms

ferb I know what bad nimisin I have to make

[rustic junco]

the two things that make up human society

[native root]

true

[amber yarrow]

Why was j become w

[rustic junco]

"jun" is pronounced /d͡ʑyn/

so maybe they prioritised the /y/ part

[amber yarrow]

yeah

wi = y

[west fulcrum]

out of every nimisin i could ever want i wish there was a somewhat popular one for heal/fix/improve/help

[glad dune]

pona

[west fulcrum]

pona means so much though its hard to convey specifically helping/fixing without using more words

and i get thats kinda the point but this specific definition im constantly struggling with

[glad dune]

pali pona?

kama pona perhaps

[west fulcrum]

i guess pali pona tawa (thing) maybe or pali pona lon (thing), i struggle with whether to use tawa or lon

or neither

[glad dune]

mi kama pona e sona mi

[west fulcrum]

this is pretty good actually

[cursive sedge]

i usually don't struggle with this

[primal raptor]

I am a little late but usually it's understood from context when you use pona transitively

[glad dune]

ni a

[primal raptor]

mi pona e ni -> I good this thing -> I improve this thing

So if you say like "ilo tenpo mi li pakala. mi wile pona e ona"

it's understood pretty well

[rough mantle]

t͡ɕ*

[manic basalt]

not a fan of nimisins in general myself (made this for fun) but I'd like to hear some opinions :3

[cursive sedge]

hmmmm

can you think of ways to convey that idea without this word?

[manic basalt]

"sona ala" would be the closest for me, but it's not quite what I want to express — while one refers to the lack of knowledge to a specific thing, tunta is more about the lack of being sure of something if that makes sense (which in most contexts are the same, but not always)

[cursive sedge]

i'd use pilin in there somewhere

[manic basalt]

hmmm

[cursive sedge]

perhaps ken

[rough mantle]

mi pilin e ni: ken la ni li toki pi lon ala

[cursive sedge]

this is pretty close to how i'd express it

[manic basalt]

Hmm maybe I'd use "mi la" but I'm not sure

[manic basalt]

For example "mi tunta e ni" being "I'm not sure about this" which could be expressed as "mi sona ala e ni: ni li pona anu seme" maybe?

[cursive sedge]

yes!

that's a great way to say it

[valid lily]

just made a mockup on linku.la, not trying to pretend like it's on there or anything

lowi - manmade, modern technology, unnatural (not of the natural world)
etymology is from mandarin '落日' meaning 'sunset,' as a reference to the book 三体 (The Three-Body Problem) by Cixin Liu, which uses 落日 in the phrase "sunset for mankind" to refer to a situation caused by technological advancement
the sitelen pona is an abstract motherboard

ilo lowi li wan e mi li tu e mi. (modern technological tools unite us and divide us.)
mi wile ala e ni: tomo suli lowi li lon ma tomo mi. (i don't want big, industrial buildings in my town.)
moku ni li lowi mute la o esun ala e ona. (those snacks are so processed, don't buy them.)

[sly wadi]

who is the creator of this thread

deleted account

[valid lily]

sisin - natural, organic, inherent
pretty much only made so lowi could have a companion. and yes, i am aware this is just one of the dualities that pona/ike is meant to cover, but i just thought it would be nice to try and think up a couple of nimisin for it

etymology is the mandarin 寂静 and references the same book, but specifically the role that another book (Silent Spring (寂静的春天) by Rachel Carson) plays in the plot
the sitelen pona is a branch but i need to find a better one

mi jan pi sona sisin. (i'm a science professor.)
tawa sisin lon ma tomo mi li pona tawa mi. (i like going outdoors, into the natural environments in my city.)
tan seme la soweli sisin mute li lon tomo sina? (why is your house full of wild animals?)

sorry about filling this thread today haha

[west fulcrum]

where was this word literally like 3 hours ago when i was trying to express the word rural

[valid lily]

thank you for advocating for me💔❣️❣️❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🔥💟💕💞💕

[wispy vortex]

an - polar question marker replacing 'li'
from Irish 'an' (used to form direct and indirect questions)

examples:
soweli li tawa. The animal moves.
soweli an tawa? Is the animal moving?
mi an lon tomo? Am I in the house?
stacking an and o: mi an o toki pona taso? Should I only speak in Toki Pona?

[native root]

but you can do this:
soweli li tawa ala tawa?
mi lon ala lon tomo?

[wispy vortex]

yeah i know

[native root]

ah okay

[wispy vortex]

it's a silly word

[native root]

ahhhh okay

[wispy vortex]

i just spent a long time finding a good etymology for it LOL

[native root]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh okay

lol :3

[west fulcrum]

i like this a lot

mi an kepeken e nimi ni?

[wispy vortex]

sure if u want

[rustic junco]

right sorry i forgot about that

[finite galleon]

supama

Bomb,explosion

Origin:
Lojban: jbama ‘bomb’

[rustic junco]

mi la "ilo pakala" anu "ilo (pi) pakala wawa" li ken

[manic basalt]

anu "seli suli" tawa "Explosion"

[sly wadi]

ni li nimi pona anu seme

[rapid kindle]

tomo toki ni anu seme?

[sly wadi]

i'm talking about the word

[granite wagon]

-wijo

[urban owl]

akoloto - Axolotl

[waxen mountain]

we don't need more animal words

[split saddle]

uh is this the wrong channel? /genq
this is “good nimisin”

[glad dune]

we need more PLANT words

[modern saddle]

tfw its the exact glyph and some of the meaning i use for kiki

[glad dune]

kiki has a lot of glyphs

[chilly gale]

I had an idea to expand on the 'pu,' 'nimi pu,' 'ku suli,' and 'ku lili' series of words:
puku - The collection of official Toki Pona books
upu - nimi sin coined by Sonja
uku - nimi sin coined by the community
ulu - nimi sin not yet recognized by Sonja in the puku
yu - nimi sin coined as a joke

ulu suli - ulu commonly used in the community
ulu lili - ulu not commonly used in the community
yu upu - yu coined by Sonja (Like yupekosi)
yu uku - yu coined by the community (Like yutu)

Theoretical base 6 system for Toki Pona:
ala - Zero (DEC/SEX 0)
wan - One (DEC/SEX 1)
tu - Two (DEC/SEX 2)
san - Three (DEC/SEX 3)
po - Four (DEC/SEX 4)
luka - Five (DEC/SEX 5)

And then we have the Powers of 6:
kulu - Six (DEC 6, SEX 10)
nipe - Nif (DEC 36, SEX 100)
talupa - Six Nif (DEC 216, SEX 1000)
ekisan - Unexiam (DEC 1296, SEX 10000)

How to use this system:
The order of numbers goes like this: ekisan, talupa, nipe, kulu, wan; This works exactly the same as the 'Thousand, Hundred, Tens, Ones' system does.
The wan spot uses the words for 1 through 5, with 0 showing up only when you're talking about it in specific, similarly to how it works in English, Portuguese, and etc.
If you wish to multiply one of the Powers of 6 shown above, simply place the words for 2 through 5 to the left of each Power of 6 (so for example, san luka = DEC 18, SEX 30).
However, you do not say, for example, 'wan luka,' you just say 'luka;' similarly, you do not say 'ala luka,' you simply don't say 'luka' in the first place.
This way, you can get as high as luka ekisan luka talupa luka nipe luka kulu luka, which is 55555 in Base 6, or 7775 in Base 10; This is probably as high as you'll ever need to go when speaking... any language, really, outside of like, Googology or something.

What do you guys think

[modern saddle]

nimi sin for other nimi sin seems redundant

as for numbers.. like, you could. but there's a reason toki pona doesn't have a complex number system

[chilly gale]

I am very well aware, it's just that I've been thinking of translating a web series I enjoy into Toki Pona, and some pretty big numbers show up in it and putting a shit ton of ales back to back doesn't appeal to me

[modern saddle]

is it 17776?

i'd say instead of using san and po, you could use kiki (triangle have 3 sides) and soweli (four limbs)

and rather than have names for powers of 6, stating a number could be just listing the digits of it in order?

[crimson sinew]

have you heard of nasin nanpa pona perchance?

if you need accurate big numbers at all

most of the time you don't

just say "mute" or "mute mute" depending on the circumstance

nasin nanpa pona is this:

X ale Y = X*100 + Y

so mute ale luka tu = (mute) * 100 + (luka tu) = 20,00 + 7 = 20,07

or tu wan ale mute mute luka wan = (tu wan) * 100 + (mute mute luka wan) = 3,00 + 46 = 3,46

it stacks for higher powers of 100 too

so X ale Y ale Z = (X * 100 + Y) * 100 + Z = X * 1,00,00 + Y * 100 + Z

as an example, mute luka tu ale mute wan ale luka tu wan
= (mute luka tu) * 1,00,00 + (mute wan) * 1,00 + (luka tu wan)
= 27,00,00 + 21,00 + 8
= 27,21,08

[split saddle]

i’m not sure if you’re serious about this, but these words are not necessary

[chilly gale]

I wasn't really expecting anyone to really adopt it, it was just an idea I had

[chilly gale]

Interesting, I will look into it

[chilly gale]

No, it's way more obscure; Like, 'you can very easily reach out to the creator and be friends with him' levels of obscure

[chilly gale]

Now that I think of it

Is it forbidden to use numerals in Toki Pona?

Like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0

[modern saddle]

no

its a good idea in the right context

[chilly gale]

Yeah I'll probably just use that in the translation LMAO

[wispy vortex]

if you end up wanting to use a toki pona number system, nasin nanpa pona does have an abbreviated method

so 2024 would be MAMTT

and the current date would be sike#MAMTT)mun#TW)suno#LLLTT

[chilly gale]

Would 4000 be 'luka luka tu tu ale ale'

[glad dune]

“mute tu ale” i think?

[primal raptor]

mute mute ale ?

[rough mantle]

Yea it would be mute mute ale

mute + mute = 40
40 * ale = 40,00

[chilly gale]

polo - flowers, coral, colorful natural things
Etymology from Portuguese word 'flor,' meaning 'flower.'

[wispy vortex]

f is not a phoneme in toki pona

[chilly gale]

I forgor 💀

[wispy vortex]

also this just seems like kasi/kiwen + kule

[chilly gale]

Fair enough

[molten silo]

kalon - milk, cheese, egg, any non-meat animal product
(< EL γάλα, YUE 卵

the semantic space may be a bit large

[primal raptor]

I think that this could be good but you could also specify moku pi sijelo ala

[neon pendant]

how do you even pronounce γ

i've been going "xxxxzggxgggxggxgxgxgzg"

[wispy vortex]

that is not a gamma, that is a lambda, pronounced /l/

gamma is pronounced like /ɣ/ which is just voiced /x/

[glad dune]

there is both a gamma and a lambda in that word

[wispy vortex]

WHY DID I NOT SEE THAT

mi akala

[modern saddle]

actually good nimisin in good nimisin channel??

[neon pendant]

yeah basically how i try to say it

"xxxxxxxxxxhhxhxhhhxhxhxghxgxhxggxggxghxhxgghxhxg"

[waxen mountain]

to - thought, idea

time to throw away some more pu words!

toki pana to

sona to lon

sitelen to lipu

🗑️

[glad dune]

isipin but better

okay but sona is not true ideas!

I think if I must roll with this version of to, then to straight up replaces sona

[split saddle]

not all sona is true

[glad dune]

precisely my point

[split saddle]

yeah

[split saddle]

not all toki gives thoughts or ideas necessarily

[split saddle]

additionally not all sitelen is book ideas

[glad dune]

words can be book ideas

[split saddle]

true

[dapper pawn]

rrrrrr 🐱

[dapper pawn]

yeah sometimes it's a parked car

[waxen mountain]

not all lipu is book

[waxen mountain]

communication is giving of thoughts

[crimson sinew]

luka luka tu tu ale ale looks like (5+5+2+2)*100*100 to me which is 140,000. mute mute ale is 4000

but it looks like others already said that

[burnt dawn]

yeah lmao

[chilly gale]

wantusi - Mathematics and its related fields, such as Physics and Engineering
Etymology: 'One,' 'Two,' and 'Three'

[glad dune]

nasin nanpa:

[wispy vortex]

sona nanpa

[dapper pawn]

nasin sona merger?

nason

[chilly gale]

simun - Happen
From Greek 'συμβούν'

[glad dune]

give me examples of usage

[wispy vortex]

isn't this just lon

or kama

[primal raptor]

was thinking the same

[chilly gale]

'Bad things happened here in the past'
ijo ike li simun lon ni lon tenpo pini
Yes I only did this because I had trouble translating this one sentence in the course I'm doing; Maybe I should've posted it in okay nimisin instead?

[wispy vortex]

you can use "kama" here - ijo ike li kama lon tenpo pini

[wet lintel]

case in point i cannot explain what the word happen means

[wispy vortex]

in english afaik happening is just existing but specifically for events

like you say that an event happens, but a thing exists

you don't say an event exists and a thing happens

in toki pona both of those are encapsulated by lon

[chilly gale]

I cannot good nimisin for shit!!! /lh

[wispy vortex]

well it's really hard to come up with good nimisin in my opinion because good nimisin spaces don't really exist anymore

i came to realize this after learning toki pona for a while - it's just like possible to talk about everything

[wet lintel]

good nimisin is over everyone pack it up

[wispy vortex]

[chilly gale]

Yeah they were all taken up by kijetesantakalu 😔

[wispy vortex]

there are occasionally interesting ideas though

[wet lintel]

ive said this before but also i think it's like. advanced learners have already wired their minds to say everything in terms of the words they're given

so there is inevitably going to be a little overlap with any nimisin that they're extra sensitive to

[primal raptor]

That too

Once you learn more the need for nimisin kind of diminishes to 0

There's a bunch of words that are still #awesome doe

[wet lintel]

alternative universe where someone proposes a nimisin for soweli and someones like "that's just ijo though...?

[wispy vortex]

i mean the fact that our minds can be wired like this in the first place just goes to show that new nimisin aren't necessary for communication

[primal raptor]

TRUEEE

[wispy vortex]

they can be cool thought experiments though and occasionally (like, very occasionally) they could catch on

[wet lintel]

this is also why tokiponidos are super interesting in concept btw because thats a whole different network of ideas to reframe everything around

[primal raptor]

Oh fuck thank u for reminding me to work on my #tokiponido

[wet lintel]

lonnn btw i meant no shade at all i was saying it in a "it be like that" way

[wispy vortex]

yeah! making a new system rather than adding new ideas into a developed one lets you explore way more creative ideas than just words too

[chilly gale]

Did you see like the Moku one that was here a little bit back

Not Moku uhh

Hold on

[chilly gale]

This one

Miko

I like this one.

[glad dune]

LITERALLY

you guys should like check out nemune

[wet lintel]

kolisin #1 nemune proponent

[chilly gale]

I've been thinking of making a Tokiponido that's a halfway point between English and Toki Pona

[glad dune]

nemune is cool with how it has entirely new semantic spaces but the grammar involves embedded relative clauses and that makes me go ew

[wet lintel]

miko la i think it's really funny that it's like a more convoluted way of satisfying the primal urge to get a nimisin for life

im kind of entranced by how abstract it is

what is living person if not one billion tiny miko

[glad dune]

I’m also planning to make my own tokiponido that mostly has “completely new semantic spaces” being its major marketing point

so far I’ve only made like one content word and that’s gisi (roughly toki, nimi, kon) (g is velar nasal)

[wet lintel]

no more moku...? oh godds...

[primal raptor]

gisi

[primal raptor]

smoku (osmosis)

[wet lintel]

velar nasal onset representation btw

[primal raptor]

My favorite part about tp is purposefully untokiponizing it

[glad dune]

mostly have just made the particles which for the most part are functionally 1:1 but with some more grammar funnies thrown in

[primal raptor]

Like the post i made in sona musi yesterday

[chilly gale]

Toki Pona if the French Invaded

Everything is the same but there's more silent letters

[wet lintel]

cthokhi poghna

[primal raptor]

that would be so much easier but no

[wet lintel]

noneko #1 silent letter hater

[glad dune]

there’s also reincarnated lo which I think is a cool nimi sin and particle

[wet lintel]

no lo on ilo Linky...? for shame.

[primal raptor]

When i write spanish I never write the "h" it's so much easier for everyone

[glad dune]

it’s too uncommon so it got moved to sandbox

nimi.li knows of it

also the note

[round linden]

lo – ~post-ku~ Prepositional particle that marks that the next word is a preposition.
← post-ku variant of lu, to avoid collision with the word reserved by Sonja (see ... lu)

Allows for non-pu prepositions. lo is not required when the word after is in the prepositional class (e.g. tawa, kepeken, lon, sama, tan), but it can be used to disambiguate (e.g. mi pana e tomo lo tawa sina)
Examples:

mi pali e ijo ni lo utala sina.
I make this object in opposition to you.
mi pana e ijo mi tawa sina lo esun ijo sina.
I give this thing to you in exchange for your thing.

Usually, only the first word after lo is used as a preposition. You can use lo with ja to make modified or compound prepositions (see ... ja).
See ... unambiguous for more experimental ways to grammatically disambiguate Toki Pona.

#19f1d1 lo

[chilly gale]

What if Toki Pona was a Synthetic Language

[wispy vortex]

that could be interesting

[primal raptor]

That's just beginners using a lot of pi

[wispy vortex]

synthetic languages are generally harder to learn for isolating language native speakers than isolating languages are to learn for synthetic language speakers, which is a big reason toki pona is isolating

[glad dune]

mi o pali e tomo lon #1020033302595391488 tan ona

so far its name is “gisi gisi” as a sort of placeholder

[wispy vortex]

a a yeah i haven't deployed sandbox yet

[sly wadi]

oh absolutely. the existing toki pona words can cover any semantic space. new nimisin will always* have a way to be talked about with basic toki pona, which itself has ovwrlapping meaning between words. making good nimisin is about making new words which align with the philosophy of the language or playing with new interesting ways of interacting with the language, not trying to find things that cant be expressed with toki pona or trying to "fix" the language

jan Kali ↩️

[Reply to:](#1187029495203504168 message) ive said this before but also i think it's like. advanced learners have already wired their minds to…

waoh pluralkit

[wet lintel]

yeah so real it is def good practice to try and figure it out

but i was also thinking that in the way that like. toki ponas system isn't the optimal one, there's a lot of permutations at the same level (which is what tokiponidos explore)

it doesn't need to have distinct soweli-akesi but it does for example

it's more that your brain is wired to the specific framing toki pona does

when youve gotten to know the language youll go "isipin is obviously nothing" but that's because you've had to figure out how to get at it with pilin and toki

imagine toki doesn't exist and someone proposes it as a nimisin and it's like "that's just pana isipin

[primal raptor]

exactly

[wet lintel]

and again this is not like a flaw or anything i love it when part of knowing the language is knowing the set of concepts it employs

i use like 1 nimi pi ku ala ever probably

but yeag that's my essay on good nimisin are difficult

[primal raptor]

This is also like fairly connected to how each person's nasin works

[wet lintel]

side note im half tempted to go tokin't isipin if only because it would be so so funny

[primal raptor]

Like

[wet lintel]

oh my god imagine sonan't "isipin lon" sorry that's my final bit keep going noneko

[primal raptor]

I like to use "soko" even though I know that "kili" can work purely because my #epicsauce brain is like well. Mushrooms aren't kasi or soweli. And u like mushrooms too much to not at least recognize that

[wet lintel]

lonnnnn

nimisin that are employed by one guy for a really specific personal purpose my beloved

(eliki and meso

i got scared and had to check back because i thought i said behated by accident

[primal raptor]

I think I had never heard eliki

BEHATED

[wet lintel]

eliki is like. significant personal battle but without the connotation of it being a flaw (autism)

[primal raptor]

Ohhhhh

Maybe stealing this actually

eliki (theres 6 ppl in here)

[wet lintel]

actually it's kind of fascinating that both words have been created to destigmatize/describe the creators disability

meso i dont remember the details of but it was something like kiind of eye problems but not Bad. average eyesight

you gotta look that up i might be cooking out of my ass

[primal raptor]

wohgh

[wet lintel]

i might be farting out fuire

[primal raptor]

Also sorry I really want to go back to the point u made about tokiponidos

I think the thing about tokiponidos is that like

[wet lintel]

it's not on sona pona this can't be happening. oh god where did i read that

[primal raptor]

it came to you in a dream.

You have to understand the language to make a #epic tokiponido right. Like

In the sense that it is a Big change

But I think that whether it's big or just a little for funsies change, toki pona still is just a language that just... lends itself for that so well?

Because it lets tokiponidos be a form of self expression one way or another

Idk I have soup in my brain but it's nice

[wet lintel]

whar

just refreshed discord im laughing so hard at that

[wet lintel]

FOR REWLLL

tokiponido is a natural escalation from personal vocabulary is a natural escalation from nimisin

[primal raptor]

DKNJHDAJNSDASDKNJHADJHBGASDHGVFASDBAJSHGVHAGFSD

iM DYIGN

[primal raptor]

yas.....

[wet lintel]

[posed like a philosopher] i think the thing about tokiponido is that a fairy with huge bazoingas hands you a book and you wake up inexplicably with it in your hand

[primal raptor]

It's true that happened to me

I think that overall playing with tp is nice

But if u wanna play with it da best u gotta understand what the language aims 2 do and what u can do w it

[sly wadi]

i forgot the reason why isipin is not a good word for toki pona

lol

[wet lintel]

#1181641057985908797 message conveniently we just talked about this in bad nimisin like an hour ago

[glad dune]

yeah literally

isipin is similar to lanpan

anyway to eliki and meso: meso is not a nimi sin i like, and eliki is a nimi sin i think can be neat

[wet lintel]

kolisin do you remember hearing the meso origin story

[glad dune]

I do not

[wet lintel]

it came to me in a dream.... it's so over

[glad dune]

oh good

now the world can use insa

[wet lintel]

[glad dune]

I think I misunderstood what coming to you in a dream meant

[wet lintel]

i heard a thing about meso being from a talking about disability moment but i can't find the source for it anywhere

[glad dune]

hmmm

I have not seen this

to tokiponido discussion: yeah I nimi sin enjoyered too hard into tokiponido creator

[primal raptor]

EXACTLY

[glad dune]

I saw it with ilo Powa (nemune) and I see it with myself (gisi gisi)

[primal raptor]

I am still trying to think of a name for mine

[glad dune]

owo?

[primal raptor]

But I'll figure it out eventually >;P

[glad dune]

I need to figure out more words for gisi gisi

[wet lintel]

sigi for sigil

[primal raptor]

I would love 2 see what u got goin on honestly

[glad dune]

so far I only have the particles, gisi, the phonology, Latin orthography, and most of the grammar

[primal raptor]

Maybe somewhere else that isn't the good nimisin thread

[glad dune]

Lon…

mi o pali e tomo lon #1020033302595391488

[primal raptor]

pona pona

[rancid kite]

that's just alente but even broader

[chilly gale]

ato - particles, atoms, quarks, and so on
Semantic space includes any concept related to Quantum Physics
Etymology: English 'Atom';

kemika - chemicals, chemical reactions, molecules, alchemy, and so on
Semantic space includes any concept related to Chemistry
Etymology: English 'Chemical'

You can now discuss Quantum Physics and Chemistry in Toki Pona

[glad dune]

we could do that before?

[chilly gale]

You can now do so more conveniently

[glad dune]

I don’t really like jargon nimi sin

how can I use ato and kemika outside of their associated fields?

[chilly gale]

Good question

[rancid kite]

pu lists seli as "chemical reaction"

[chilly gale]

I know

[waxen mountain]

well fire is a very complex chemical reaction

[glad dune]

seli pona — simple reaction

[primal raptor]

seli pi ijo mute lili

[waxen mountain]

I feel like seli is too broad to talk about chemistry

since it could also refer to heat or fire or cooking

[glad dune]

a lot of words are very broad, but yet people can still communicate fairly well

you can always build context

[lilac shuttle]

a word covering both plastics and chemicals could be useful?

[glad dune]

perhaps this could help for that?

[lilac shuttle]

I feel like there's just a little too much overlap between lowi and kiwen when referring to metals, but overall that's a pretty cool nimisin!

[primal raptor]

I would honestly be more tempted to call them like "ijo pali" or "ijo seli" or "ijo pali wawa" depending on like. Synthetic, reagents, catalysts, the likes, by building context

[lilac shuttle]

true, honestly plastics don't come up that much in toki pona conversations. I was just suggesting it would widen kemika 's semantic space

[primal raptor]

ahhh pona

[cursive sedge]

you could say "jan li pali e ona" maybe

[modern saddle]

oh oh oh!!!

idea

idea!!

[modern saddle]

this word

and an opposite

kalon - milk, cheese, egg, wool, thing derived from animals that humans use, natural product
______ - plastic, chemicals, processed food, manmade product
theyre like opposites

[dapper pawn]

kapowe

[modern saddle]

kapowe

haven't heard of that

just remembered the one posted above

[wet lintel]

KAPOWE

[split saddle]

it’s because the opposite of kalon is kapowe because powe is the opposite of lon

[severe sun]

kåla - Blåhaj

[onyx torrent]

wawa

[rough mantle]

/kola/

[modern saddle]

ohh

[kindred pollen]

aja - life ( etymology : Arabic " hayat "
semantic space includes : it can describe anything which is organic.

[sly wadi]

the people crave life nimisin

[kindred pollen]

Yes , I just scrolled for the previous nimisins submissions and I found that many of them are related to life , organic , natural....

[split saddle]

so you made another? what’s the point if there are loads of others?

[sly wadi]

they meant they scrolled back After posting it i think

[rough mantle]

Isn’t that the Kokanu word for life

[split saddle]

aa sona

[wispy vortex]

https://kokanu.pages.dev/haja

[wispy vortex]

kokanu's word is haja, maybe you learned it before they added h and c

but it does have the same etymology

[rough mantle]

a

[junior glade]

moln’t: life
(I’m not sure of this obeys tp’s phonotactics, I forget)

[primal raptor]

it does Not

[rough mantle]

There are three consonants touching and an apostrophe

[wet lintel]

shes chilling

[rough mantle]

seme

[dapper pawn]

they WHAT

i mean

ok

[wispy vortex]

LOL

[prisma plinth]

oh i remembered a half-joking nimisin i made recently

le - indicates context in a sentence, is omitted in A la B phrases. this allows for free word order
A la B <=> la B le A <=> le A la B

inspired by en being a subject-marker thats omitted at the beginning of sentences from nasin kijetesantakalu

[dapper pawn]

this is just alu

[prisma plinth]

is it? i'm not familiar with alu so i mightve just remade it

[wispy vortex]

alu is A la B = B alu A

[dapper pawn]

yeah it comes before a

[wispy vortex]

but ka Iliku’s le requires context to still be marked

with la

wait no actually other way around

i feel like this is just “B. A la ni (li lon)”

[chilly gale]

good nimisin

[kindred pollen]

Numerous individuals contribute new words to the tokipona, but I'm curious to understand how a word is selected by the community and gains widespread usage. Is there a specific strategy involved?

[wet lintel]

afaik you just kind of make the word and it catches on or doesn't

[kindred pollen]

Is there any nimisin which is selected from this forum?

[wet lintel]

if it's popular enough to show up in the linku.la poll then it gets on linku.la and then even more people find out about it from there

doesn't seem to be a lot of people in this thread

[glad dune]

these nimi sin threads are sort of an echo chamber

[split saddle]

in what way?

[glad dune]

in the sense of few people actually see them or use them

they’re also just kind of proposed but hardly used

[split saddle]

ohh right yeah

[wet lintel]

good nimisin is for when you want your nimisin evaluated with absolutely zero consequence afterwards

[severe sun]

probably not because this thread is a joke

less of a joke than #1181641057985908797 but still

[molten silo]

sitelen pona made! it's supposed to represent an egg or maybe a drop of milk

[slender sage]

pointy egg a a a

[molten silo]

normal egg shape looks to much like ijo

[glad dune]

peto

[molten silo]

luckily I made an ALT glyph

it's like a carton of milk

[severe sun]

tomo

[molten silo]

I think it's distinct enough from tomo

[severe sun]

the toki ponists figured out how to build chimneys

[grave anchor]

I like this but in context it can be replaced with moku and out of context the semantic space is too large to be useful

Useless nimisin

[glad dune]

you could say that about all nimi sin

[glass trellis]

supete: luck-based, unpredictable, unexpected, probability, erratic, etc. (Anything where the end is difficult to predict based on the beginning)

sitelen pona could be the five dots side of a dice (w/square outline). Other ideas welcome, I haven't thought much on the glyph

Thoughts?

[stuck spear]

sitelen (but 2 more dots)

[glass trellis]

I missed that

Good catch

[manic basalt]

how would you express this without this nimisin?

and where could this be used?

[glass trellis]

If I were to win the lottery, I might say something like
sona mi li jo ala e ni: mani mute li kama mi a! taso ni li lon!

The idea is that it emphasizes that something is unpredictable. The same phrase becomes
supete pona la mi kama jo e mani mute!

(I also want to note that I don't really want to expand tp vocab, I rather like the way it's easy to learn and then speaking becomes a puzzle of how to break down this concept into these building blocks)

[manic basalt]

well it's an interesting word

some my argue it can be redundant to say the situation was unpredictable and when it is you just "sona ala", but nasin ale li pona

[glass trellis]

I thought so too, that's why I posted. Maybe sharing it I can finally get it out of my head

[manic basalt]

something being redundant or not can be very subjective as well so

[glass trellis]

sona ala la is a really good compression by the way

[manic basalt]

i think this is a cool word save it up and see what people say

tho maybe not a nimisin that would get widely used

a lot of people think the philosophy of toki pona clearly marks you should simplify what you want to say

[glass trellis]

Then I've succeeded in my goal 🙂 It's already been cool seeing just a few responses

[glass trellis]

Agreed

[woven smelt]

i like to use pa instead of ala sometimes for flow in poetry

[stuck spear]

pa?

[echo heath]

ken la sama pi toki Panse? Ne pas? taso mi kin sona ala e nimi ni

[stuck spear]

the only pa i know is bruh