toki Intonesija en toki Melaju - Bahasa Melayu

[slim urchin]

what happened here

[serene spade]

no register is "just wrong"

[surreal cedar]

#1079989727958159461 message

this is the beginning

[surreal cedar]

i'll fix that, i wanted to be quick

[slim urchin]

i'm not qualified to make any comments on this discussion because i don't know enough about linguistics

and also my parents haven't held a conversation in malay other than ordering food in like 20 years

[surreal cedar]

Okay, that's good. You have some humility and respect. Most amateur linguists, in my experience, don't have that. 👍

[surreal cedar]

I see, where are you from?

[slim urchin]

malaysia

kinda

i'm malaysian chinese

[surreal cedar]

Where do you live rn

[slim urchin]

new zealand

anyway gn

[surreal cedar]

ah makes sense

gn

lipamanka, it's not that I don't respect you as a whole. It's just that you have a lack of background in this topic. I'm pretty sure you're a nice and exquisite person. But for someone not really knowledgeable about this particular subject, I don't think you should be talking so confidently about it.

And I want to apologise if my messages came across as argumentative. When it comes to these topics, I am quick to become defensive because of my previous experiences. I shouldn't have lashed it out on you.

I would tag you, but since you asked me to disengage, I'll wait a few hours or until someone else does...

[warm yoke]

selamat pagi

[surreal cedar]

soré

[warm yoke]

ramai di antara kita mengelak daripada mencampurkan perkataan bahasa inggeris dalam bahasa kita, kerana kita ingin memelihara bahasa kita

(saya mengatakan ini dalam konteks penutur bahasa perancis di negara yang kebanyakannya berbahasa inggeris)

bintang Daud merupakan lambang komuniti Yahudi dan agama Yahudi sebelum digunakan oleh Israel. ramai orang yahudi adalah anti-zionis.

(tolong betulkan saya jika saya tersilap.)

[pine locust]

selamat malen

[warm yoke]

wahai si manuk

hari ini saya perlu membersih rumah saya

[grave rivet]

*singaporean, which used to go by "temasakan"

bahasa-bahasa sama seperti orang-orang: kami ubah

[surreal cedar]

i am enough of your wannabe polyglot malay, si

don't bring it here

like genuinely

[surreal cedar]

no

it never went by temasakan

it went by temasik

@weak lintel yo

bro

sini bro

[grave rivet]

awak kenal saya?

[weak lintel]

hi

[surreal cedar]

hi

hai adikku

[weak lintel]

it’s so close to being good

[weak lintel]

hai bang

[surreal cedar]

aku xfaham dia nak cakap apa 💀

[weak lintel]

language is the same as people: they change

it’s weird though

wait

[surreal cedar]

oh iyakah, astaga ngerinya

[weak lintel]

I guess we change but idk

it sounds weird

[surreal cedar]

*bahasa seperti manusia, berubah-ubah

@grave rivet

[weak lintel]

I don’t get if the point is if language changes or people change

[surreal cedar]

it doesn't matter

nothing can defend codeswitching

🙏

i see it no different than raising your kid with english (when you don't live in an english-speaking country)

like why would you do that

[weak lintel]

better opportunity, probs

[surreal cedar]

kedahese dialect

[weak lintel]

don’t support it nonetheless though

[surreal cedar]

the q is like arabic ain

it comes from malay /r/

[weak lintel]

aren’t they different phonemes tho

or phones?

I forgot the diff

[surreal cedar]

no they're the same

[weak lintel]

oh

[surreal cedar]

acik sonja pun setuju ye acik sonja

saye pun heran

kenape dia dok defend?

[surreal cedar]

apa hukum bergaduh dengan orang yang tak kenal dekat internet

weh tapi aku rasa bersalah doh

sebab dia mcm mula betul2 nak tertarik dgn bahasa melayu 😭

pastu aku dok berlaga mulut dgn dia 😦

rasa bersalah weeeh

harap2 dia terimalah eh aku minta maaf

[weak lintel]

aq tk tahu 😔

[weak lintel]

ye ke

bg aq dia bkn tertarik pon

dia heran je dgn ape kau ckp

[weak lintel]

Insyallah

[weak lintel]

mungkin kau terlebih sikit masa kau ckp dia akan “pull the descriptivism card”

tp ok lah tu

dh maaf, kau pon dh rasa bersalah

tkyah risau

[warm yoke]

saya main catur setiap hari

adakah ia membuang masa?

[warm yoke]

saya suka ayat ini: "Wahai umat manusia! Sesungguhnya Kami telah menciptakan kamu dari lelaki dan perempuan, dan Kami telah menjadikan kamu berbagai bangsa dan bersuku puak, supaya kamu berkenal-kenalan (dan beramah mesra antara satu dengan yang lain)."

[warm yoke]

saya cari perkataan bermakna "context". saya boleh guna perkataan "persekitaran"?

[surreal cedar]

biasa orang guna konteks

[surreal cedar]

ye

cer kau scroll

dia tanya2 acik sonja ttg bahasa melayu

😭

someone show him my apology

this is a MISCOMMUNICATION

[warm yoke]

bukan "him". dia guna "it".

[surreal cedar]

oh, sorry

didn't notice that 😅

what does 'they aux' mean? can i call it they?

[warm yoke]

saya percaya bahwa dia lebih suka "it" dan juga terima "they"

oh saya ada soalan tentang kata ganta nama

jika saya cakap tentang suami saya, saya boleh guna "beliau" untuk menghormatinya?

[surreal cedar]

Kalau macam tu, saya panggil guna 'they/them' jela eh. Tak terbiasalah guna it/its ni 😅

[surreal cedar]

ape tu

ohh

[warm yoke]

atau "dia" lebih biasa?

[surreal cedar]

biasa 'beliau' ni orang guna untuk tokoh2 penting macam pahlawan, ilmuwan, pensyarah, dll. kalau suami tak lah. biasa kalau suami orang guna 'suami' atau 'laki' digabung dengan kata ganti diri yang orang tu guna untuk bahasakan diri dia. jadi kalau dia guna akak, dia guna 'suami akak' atau 'laki akak'. kalau guna 'i', 'suami i' atau 'laki i'

misalnya:
A: suami akak mana kak?
B: suami akak tengah kerja

[warm yoke]

akak adalah perkataan baru bagi saya

[surreal cedar]

iyakah

akak itu kakak

[warm yoke]

seperti kakak ahhh

[surreal cedar]

ya

nama gelaran untuk perempuan yang lebih tua daripada kita tapi belum cukup tua untuk digelar 'makcik' 😅

[warm yoke]

wkwk

saya ada bendera pulau pinang dalam rumah

saya memesan sanduic ayam goreng

[surreal cedar]

heh sanduic

selalu orang guna sandwich je

[surreal cedar]

waw

saya hafal lagu negeri pulau pinang

[warm yoke]

https://youtu.be/_YDV3JOV20M?si=JOOZLFKP0AtG0tgJ

[pine locust]

selamat pagi

[grave rivet]

sepagi. apa kabar?

[warm yoke]

toki

[halcyon temple]

what does "secara" mean? I can't find it on wiktionary but it's the 30th most common word in my corpus, occuring in 2.5% of sentences

[surreal cedar]

stop using fake malay here si, nobody says sepagi. you're gonna mislead people

[surreal cedar]

it means "-ly"

basically an adverb marker

[halcyon temple]

oh cool!

[surreal cedar]

you can check kamus dewan for words

also

did you see my message

[halcyon temple]

I did

[surreal cedar]

https://prpm.dbp.gov.my/cari1?keyword=secara

[halcyon temple]

it's 7 in the morning and I'm falling asleep like Right Now so I can't really respond to the message but I accept your apology

[surreal cedar]

Thank you :). By the way, I find Hebrew and Yiddish interesting too. So we have an interest of each other's languages XD

There actually used to be Judeo-Malay in one state. In fact, I tried to reconstruct it once based on what little corpus we had (just a list of numbers)

[warm yoke]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Malay

@halcyon temple ... adakah awak tahu tentang [ə] di akhir perkataan?

biasanya huruf a disebut schwa di akhir perkataan

ada pengecualian

asrama bukan asrame

[warm yoke]

BINATANG COMEL https://docs.google.com/document/d/13Ou8mcLAYdQKybRVdJbmh-gcDmy4jtZuHUPFNOuNF_s/edit

[halcyon temple]

mi sona ala e toki ni tan ni: mi toki Melaju ala

[warm yoke]

o kama sona e nimi pi soweli suwi

penjual tembaga berkualiti rendah

[halcyon temple]

soweli suwi

[warm yoke]

mi la soweli "lotong cengkung" li suwi nanpa wan

[halcyon temple]

mi la kubung sunda

[warm yoke]

aaa kubung sunda!

https://incidentalnaturalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/dsc_8775.jpg

[halcyon temple]

suwiiii

[warm yoke]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Sunda_Flying_Lemur_area.png

peta

[halcyon temple]

ni li lon poka pi ma Papuwa Nijukini

[warm yoke]

ma Intonesija en ma Malasija li lon poka

[halcyon temple]

ni li lon!

[warm yoke]

betul!

[warm yoke]

Kerukunan Senja

Di sini datang masa setiap bunga sedang bergetar
Tersejat seperti pudupaan.
Bunyi-bunyi dan wangian-wangian berpusing di udara senja:
Tarian berpasangan sayu dan pening lesu!

Setiap bunga tersejat seperti pedupaan.
Alat muzik bertali menggigil seperti hati dinyeksa.
Tarian berpasangan sayu dan pening lesu!
Langit adalah sedih dan indah seperti mezbah besar.

Alat muzik bertali menggigil seperti hati dinyeksa.
Hati lembut yang benci kekosongan luas dan hitam!
Langit adalah sedih dan indah seperti mezbah besar.
Matahari tenggelam dalam darahnya yang semakin membeku.

Hati lembut yang benci kekosongan luas dan hitam,
Dari masa lalu yang cerah kumpulkan semua sisa!
Matahari tenggelam dalam darahnya yang semakin membeku…
Dalam aku ingatan engkau bersinar seperti bejana suci dipamerkan!

[slim urchin]

selamat pagiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii mu

[warm yoke]

mu mu mu

[warm yoke]

apa khabar

[slim urchin]

[surreal cedar]

wanita bukan wanite

juta bukan jute

minda bukan minde

[surreal cedar]

hmm rima tu kurang :p

[surreal cedar]

actually it just depends on the dialect

for kl malay, it is schwa

but for kedahese, it's ɑ

for Kelantanese, it's ɔ

for perak, it's ɛ

for hulu terengganu, its iy (i'm using y for the semivowel here, get used to it because i will not be using /j/)

sometimes when i'm bored i listen to Malay Mass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI-cdwRDKhg&t=86s

[surreal cedar]

It should already be obvious, but I'm nevertheless surprised how similar this is to an Indonesian Catholic mass.

[halcyon temple]

can someone write a guide to all the pronouns ever in malay

and when they're used, who uses them, who they're used for, any further connotations?

[surreal cedar]

sure, in a bit

[surreal cedar]

It is called Catholic after all. It stays the same no matter you are 🥰

[surreal cedar]

AKU

Aku is the impolite first person pronoun. It is used when talking to younger siblings, friends of the same age, casually or rudely talking to a person younger than you, etc. It is the most basic pronoun basically.
However, using aku to subordinates can be considered weird at times. When talking to younger relatives, older people tend to use saya, using their names or kinship pronouns, like abang, kakak, makcik, pakcik, nenek, etc etc.
If it is in a work setting, then saya is most often used. When talking to students, teachers would often refer to themselves as cikgu (lit. teacher) and the student would reply using saya.

KAU

Kau is the impolite second person pronoun. Like aku, it is used when talking to siblings, friends of the same age, and talking to a person younger than you. It is essentially the compliment of aku and carries the same connotation.
When talking to younger relatives, older people tend to use awak or their names.
If it is in a work setting, then the speaker would use the title of the person relative to their age. If the interlocutor is a female older around 15~ years of age, then they will be referred to as akak. If more than that, makcik.
Teachers refer to their students by name or awak. If a teacher uses kau, it has an angry connotation.

DIA

Dia carries no connotation. However, it is considered more polite to refer to someone by their name if you are talking about someone older than you.
So if you are talking about your aunt named Halimah or smth, you wouldn't refer to her as dia in a conversation but by her name. Cik Limah.

KITA & KAMI & KITORANG

Kita in Standard Malay is the inclusive first person plural pronoun. However, it is rarely used in day-to-day life. Instead, kitorang is used.
Kita is often used by young children and women as a first-person pronoun which is seen as clingy (gedik).
Kami in Standard Malay is the exclusive first person plural pronoun. In day-to-day life it is merged with kitorang.
Kedahese dialect uses this word as a polite first person pronoun. So does Sarawakian Malay in the form of kamek
Kitorang is widely used in KL-Johor-Riau Malay and understood across the whole country. It has no connotation and can be used to anyone whether younger or older. Some find it rude and unfit to be used but they are an ignorable minority.

[surreal cedar]

KAMU & KALIAN & AWAK & KORANG

Kamu in Standard Malay is the polite second person pronoun. It is rarely or dear I say never used in day-to-day life but ubiquitous in writing and media such as novels, subtitles (even when the audio says kau!), Qur'an and Bible translations, etc. Malay has no official second person plural pronoun, so this pronoun is often used for that function either on it's own or with the phrase kamu semua (lit. you all) or kamu sekalian (ditto.)
From the latter birthed the word kalian. This is used in writing and rarely used in conversations in Malaysian Malay. This word is much more common in Indonesian.
Awak is the polite second person pronoun in Malaysian Malay or perhaps a better word to describe it would be "intimate". Like I've stated above, it can be used by teachers to refer to their students, by someone to refer to a younger relative like cousin, etc...
It is also often used for people you don't know much and people of the opposite gender. As in, you know that person but you are not as close to them. I would not use this for a stranger on the road.
When talking to someone the same age as you, it gives the connotation that you're not as close to them or that you love them somehow. This pronoun is often used reprocically by lovers.
Korang is the informal second person plural pronoun. Since it has kau as a component, it carries roughly the same connotation. A teacher referring to a group of students by korang however isn't really considered angry and just the default, whether they are angry or not depends on their intonation :p

@crude sage boleh semak ye kot2 saya ada salah XD

oh yeah

i forgot about saya

[crude sage]

Rasanya semua betul ni

Boleh juga tambah yang korang adalah singkatan bagi kau orang :>

[surreal cedar]

SAYA

Saya is the polite first person pronoun in Malaysian Malay and Indonesian. Like aku & kau, this pronoun is considered the compliment of awak and carries roughly the same connotation. However, it is not as intimate as awak and is perfectly acceptable to use with some guy on the road you just met, or to a person the same age as you. My friend often switches between aku and saya for no reason even with the same person XD

DIORANG

It is the plural form of dia and is a contraction of dia orang. Same connotation as dia. Eg
A: Asyraf dengan Jamal mana?
B: Diorang pergi kedai.
vs
A: Mana Cik Limah dengan Cik Eton?
B: Pergi kedai/Cik Limah dengan Cik Eton pergi kedai.

miscellanous:

ANDA

Nobody uses this except in commercials to refer to the viewer. Uncapitalised in Malaysian Malay but capitalised in Indonesian (Anda)

KAMURANG

A second person plural pronoun used only in Sabahan Malay. A contraction of kamu + orang.

[halcyon temple]

@surreal cedar this is fucking amazing thank you so FUCKING much

[surreal cedar]

YW 🙂

[halcyon temple]

:0

[surreal cedar]

And about the titles relative to their age thing, it basically works like this

70+ = nek (F), tok (M)
25+ = makcik (F), pakcik (M), (a)cik (M&F)
15+ = akak (F), bang (M)
YOU (your age)
5- = dik (M&F)

mostly we just guess based on how they look

some women would not like to be called makcik and want to be called akak because they don't want to be seen as old :p

[crude sage]

benar, benar 😛

some men also wanted to be called abang also

for the same reason :p

[halcyon temple]

I see!

I'm 120 years old and I'm a woman so please use nek for me :3

[surreal cedar]

If you do say so huhu. Malays actually have an old custom of asking permission before entering a forest, to the spirits of the forest. "Tok, nek, cucu tumpang lalu dulu ye..."

Are you a forest spirit? 😳 jk

[surreal cedar]

people mostly don't do this anymore though, bcz Islam outlaws it

[halcyon temple]

yeah sure

[halcyon temple]

this sucks >:(

[warm yoke]

mambang means a spirit?

another cool pronoun is -nya

[warm yoke]

kita harus memelihara adat istiadat praislam kita

[warm yoke]

is tok short for datuk?

[warm yoke]

@unkempt jolt li pipi. ni li nimi pipi yang saya kenal

mi kama sona e nimi pi pipi ale lon toki Malasija

aaa saya lupa "capung" (dragonfly)

atau pepatung

Perkataan sibar-sibar (Jawi: ‏سيبر٢‎‎) dan sesibar (Jawi: ‏سسيبر‎‎) digunakan di Johor.

Nama lain yang berkaitan ialah belalang patung yang digunakan di Kedah.

[warm yoke]

https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sijil_Pelajaran_Malaysia
saya tertanya-tanya adakah saya (sebagai warga asing) boleh mencuba untuk menjalani peperiksaan Bahasa Melayu

my goal in life is to pass the equivalent of "high school malay"

i wonder if they have old copies of the exam from previous years

[surreal cedar]

yes

datuk > atuk > tok

[surreal cedar]

yes it means a type of spirit

spirit in general is semangat

[surreal cedar]

oh yeah, the posessive pronouns

aku = -ku
kau = -mu
dia = -nya
people don't use these in speaking though in Malaysian Malay, and sometimes just using the pronoun after is used in writing

for pronouns like kami, kita etc the whole pronoun is used

and let be clear that when i say writing, i mean novels and such

when talking to people say on whatsapp we just use the spoken register

in indonesian sometimes -nya is used as a posessive linker which is a calque from Javanese -ne

eg
adik ahmad becomes adiknya ahmad

but javanese takes it to a whole different level

they even use it for other pronouns

my house = anggon=e aku
lit. place=his me

and even when you wouldn't expect it would be used

how are you? piye kabar=e?
more literal translation would be what are the news/what are your news
but it's literally
how news=his

[surreal cedar]

a - BM Piawai
ɑ - Kedah-Penang-Perlis & Reman

ɛ - Perak Tengah & Hulu Terengganu
ə - Johor-Selangor-Melaka, Terengganu Hilir-Pahang

o - Negeri Sembilan
ɔ - Kelantan-Pattani

altho saying its [a] in Standard Malay doesn't really mean anything, people still use the schwa when reading it

or ɑ when they are Kedahese

[warm yoke]

menarik

[surreal cedar]

Melayu - Memekar

[warm yoke]

perkataan tukar berasal dari bahasa portugis?

[surreal cedar]

bukan

dari bahasa malayo-polinesia purba, *tukeR

seasal dengan perkataan tuku "beli" dalam bahasa jawa

[surreal cedar]

but yeah this is what makes malay unique imo

what other languages have smth like this

[warm yoke]

to have regional differences with a phoneme, you mean?

dalam sejarah kaum pendatang dari perancis ke tanah mi'kmaq di amerika utara, ada tukar menukar antarabangsa. rupanya orang portugis datang ke tanah melayu untuk tukar menukar rempah ratus?

tetapi bukan hanya pertukaran komersial, ada juga kolonialisme :(

saya harus pergi ke Melaka untuk belajar sejarah

https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penaklukan_Melaka_(1511)?wprov=sfti1

dan akhirnya merdeka https://youtu.be/X54V5T9srEQ?si=uJe2Q9yY4pLhlkI3

https://youtu.be/Vv-JwBHFrL0?si=T7q6yQF_eDFzLZOK

[surreal cedar]

nah like specifically things like final vowels and stuff

[surreal cedar]

sudah tentu

??

kenapa ada daun

[warm yoke]

ni li tenpo pi toki pona taso!

[warm yoke]

gender

[surreal cedar]

cawan

[warm yoke]

musi

[warm yoke]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1477635009800447

d'kampung

[indigo charm]

jan Drake li toki e ala : kulupu toki la o sona e toki Intonesija anu toki Melaju
jan Drake li toki e pona : o sona e toki Intonesija anu toki Melaju tawa sona e musi

[warm yoke]

wkwk

[surreal cedar]

Penasaran... kalau misalnya jan Sonja bisa ke masa lalu ketika sedang merancang toki pona, adakah aspek apa pun yang ingin diganti?

[surreal cedar]

I realise I'm beating a dead horse here and I don't want to revive this argument by any means, I just wanted to clarify
In Malaysia when someone codeswitches between English and Malay, it usually means that their proficiency in Malay isn't that good. They use it to fill in the blanks that they don't know how to say in Malay so yeah, I'd say that causes harm because it directly affects the language. Something similar happens in the Phillipines where English codeswitching and Tagalog language imperialism causes local languages to become endangered

Malay is almost seen as a 'village language' by some people. They argue that science and technology should be purely in English because Malay is a 'backwards' language

"English is faster and more efficient than Malay." they say

In English you say commitees

But in Malay you say

jawatankuasa-jawatankuasa

They argue that Malay is too long and inefficient because of that.

[halcyon temple]

\ this is completely fair, thanks for adding these details

[warm yoke]

apa maksud "(me)latah"

[warm yoke]

(ME)LATAH:

• to involuntarily say or do things because of surprise (Kamus Dewan)
• a condition […] from […] a sudden shock […] The affected person typically engages in […] screaming, cursing, dance movements, uncontrollable laughter, mimicry and command obedience. (Wikipedia)
  Is there an English word like this?

[warm yoke]

apa khabar

[fallen falcon]

selamat malam

saya nak pergi tidur

[warm yoke]

selamat tengah hari (kat Kanada)

semoga mimpi yang indah!

[fallen falcon]

terima kasih

[warm yoke]

semua orang tidur

[fallen falcon]

tak ingat tentang ini, maaf

[warm yoke]

hai apa khabar?

apakah bahasa toki pona seronok?

[fallen falcon]

saya tak pandai bahasa indonesia

mungkin sikit je

[torpid nymph]

orang malaysia ke

[crude sage]

toki pona amat menyeronokkan bagi saya > <

[fallen falcon]

ya

[torpid nymph]

wau sama

[warm yoke]

saya main catur

tapi sudah melakukan kesilapan

[torpid nymph]

caturlah memang sejenis permainan yang susah

sudah lama saya tak bermain catur

[warm yoke]

ya sangat susah

pakar pun buat silap

[torpid nymph]

ia amat memerlukan perhatian

kalau tak hati-hati, pasti akan buat silap

[warm yoke]

jangan tergesa-gesa.

gunakan semua masa yang ada untuk merancang langkah

[crude sage]

benar

kalau silap main, raja boleh mati 😦

mesti ada strategi yang mantap 😎

[fallen falcon]

elo saya di catur cuma seribu ke seribu empat ratus

tapi, lama dah tak main, jadi saya tak pasti kalau saya masih boleh main dengan elok

[fallen falcon]

mati

[warm yoke]

saya berada di lapangan terbang

[torpid nymph]

kamu hendak pergi ke mana

[warm yoke]

ke AS

[strong lichen]

Ada Indonesia cuy 😮

[gusty storm]

nggak pikir ada channel untuk Bahasa Indonesia sama Melayu

[warm yoke]

saya makan bagel di New York

[warm yoke]

saya baca tentang adidas kampung (sejenis kasut getah)

[fallen falcon]

pernah pergi ke mydin atau tak

[warm yoke]

ona li tomo esun anu seme?

[fallen falcon]

tomo esun

suli

[fallen falcon]

tak ingat ada banyak sangat sini

[warm yoke]

https://youtu.be/KvQ4IonACR4?si=KlIFaPy8vKhYUAGd

[slim urchin]

this is so nostalgic

[fallen falcon]

ini bahasa melayu atau bahasa indonesia tapi baiklah

[slim urchin]

i cant speak malay even though i am malay :((((((((((((((((

[fallen falcon]

orang melayu

[indigo charm]

Is there a word for nostalgia to what you haven't experienced?

Karena lagu ini

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZJuYCIZ7EQ

Istriku senang ketika mendengar lagu ini 😋
(aku juga)

(istriku orang Indonesia)

[fallen falcon]

Hai orang yang bukan Islam, pernah berpuasa atau tak

Ok, tak nampak macam ada context

[warm yoke]

toki

saya berpuasa dahulu sebagai orang islam. kini saya harus berpuasa sebagai orang beragama baha'i. bulan yang beda, tapi kedua agama ada bulan puasa.

https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puasa_19_Hari?wprov=sfti1

[indigo charm]

||lete mute li aisberg? toki e toki Netelan la pona a 😅||

[warm yoke]

toki

[warm yoke]

:>

apa khabar

mi pilin pona. khabar baik.

awak belajar bahasa melayu ke?

saya berada di sini

ni li tomo pi toki Intonesija

o kama sona e toki ni :) ona li musi.

[grave rivet]

apa buat lian?

[warm yoke]

aku baca

[crude sage]

membaca :>

[warm yoke]

iya betul :)

http://utala.pona.la/

[fallen falcon]

ini pun dia

[warm yoke]

selamat hari

[fallen falcon]

sekarang ini hari malam

atau awal pagi

[warm yoke]

di negara saya sekarang pukul 1 tengahari

tapi bahasa melayu milik orang melayu.... saya harus mengatakan "selamat tengahari"

[crude sage]

Selamat Hari Ulang Tahun Indonesia ke-79!

[warm yoke]

🇮🇩

[crude sage]

saya sudah pasang bendera di kereta untuk 31 Ogos 🙂

[fallen falcon]

tiada orang tengah cakap di sini

[warm yoke]

saya berada di sini

[fallen falcon]

hai

[warm yoke]

apa yang berlaku??

[fallen falcon]

tak ada apa

[surreal cedar]

Kedua bahasa memang lumayan cukup dekat secara linguistik, sih. Mungkin cuman biar gak bebani modsnya untuk tambah thread.

sama juga

[warm yoke]

saya membaca buku kuno tentang binatang bertanduk satu

dari cerita rakyat perancis 🦄

lape pona!

[fallen falcon]

urang, itu hampir

[glad badge]

is awak or anda more used?

[warm yoke]

in malay/malaysian, awak is the common polite singular "you"

"anda" or "Anda" (indonesian spelling) is much more formal and seen in advertising

[glad badge]

that's nice to know
i've seen anda everywhere by now i wouldn't know it's just a comercial thing nobody uses

[warm yoke]

@fierce smelt o. sina sona ala sona e tomo ni?

kita bisa berlatih di sini.

[fierce smelt]

mi sona!

[warm yoke]

https://youtu.be/1k6JS8lR_Lg?si=iOaps4eOXqlwNq9b

[warm yoke]

apa khabar

[glad badge]

mi poki e nimi pi toki Intonesija kepeken nimi pi toki pona tawa kama sona mi

[warm yoke]

a!

[fallen falcon]

membaca

hello, im malaysian

we have something like an -an suffix to turn a verb into a noun, maybe not all verb but i got rusty for speaking english a lot

makanan

mainan

minuman

arahan

up to you ig

btw, in my dialect, we shorten keluar and seluar to luar, so we guess what we meant based on the context

hmm

keseronokan or keseronokkan

im rusty

maybe no

[glad badge]

hmmmmmm

i have a vision in what way

[topaz slate]

saya belajar bahasa indonesia

😃🇮🇩

[warm yoke]

bagus

[surreal cedar]

"manuk" still exists in Javanese.

[warm yoke]

dalam bahasa bugis juga

[fallen falcon]

alamak is an interjection for oh no

[warm yoke]

alamak!

ike a!

[crude sage]

aaaaa

btw, in Sarawak Malay, they do call chickens "manok"

[fallen falcon]

we usually call them ayam here

[fallen falcon]

have you ever known about these words, situ and sana

[eternal ingot]

from where i'm from, we spell it as manuk
means the same thing though

[warm yoke]

menarik

[fallen falcon]

burung hantu = owl (ghost bird)
berus gigi = toothbrush (tooth brush)
tali leher = bowtie/tie/necktie (neck rope)
kapal terbang = airplane (flying ship)
matahari = sun (dayeye)
warna warni = rainbow (colorful color)

in my dialect, we use tekak to say neck

[topaz slate]

I’ve heard that speed bump is “polisi tidur”

[fallen falcon]

ive never heard of that before

[topaz slate]

oh

what do u say for speed bump

[fallen falcon]

i dont remember

[thorny sail]

yea polisi tidur should be the common word for indo

commonly abbreviated as "poldur"

[fallen falcon]

im malaysian

[thorny sail]

is this real...

[fallen falcon]

again, i dont remember
in malay, we combine words to make it mean other things, like burung hantu for owl, literally its ghost bird

[fallen falcon]

idk if i mention this before but we differentiate between fly as in insect and fly as in flying

[static salmon]

taso la mun en tenpo mun li sama :P

[topaz slate]

thats my fav part of malay/indonesian

[warm yoke]

mi tawa ma Sinapula

[topaz slate]

pona a :o

o tawa pona

[static salmon]

tan seme a

[warm yoke]

mi tawa ma tomo Pinan 🇲🇾

[warm yoke]

@eternal ingot

[eternal ingot]

yeah i can confirm that
the "tidur" here is presumably the "lying down" one and not the "sleeping" one since they're both "tidur"

[eternal ingot]

it's pretty common to use either "kembang" or "bunga" to say "flower," though which one is more often used seemingly depends on dialect / individual preference
though "kembang" also means "to grow, to develop" now

[fallen falcon]

i use bunga to refer to flower

[static salmon]

bərak
seme a

[fallen falcon]

jJuso, tell me if its just my dialect but

ikut means follow and choice

ikut dia is either follow them or their choice

[stable sail]

halo semuanya

[warm yoke]

halo!

esok hari terakhir saya kat singapura

[stable sail]

aku udah mau tidur sekarang, hati-hati di jalan!

[warm yoke]

saya menjelaskan padi-beras-nasi kepada orang berbahasa inggeris https://bsky.app/profile/tokipona.org/post/3ldfstiq4nc2p

Sonja Lang (Toki Pona) (@tokipona.org)

For me, 'pan' is every stage of the process. Other languages have dedicated words:

padi (in Malay) = rice plant = pan
beras = harvested, husked, uncooked rice = pan
nasi = cooked rice, rice-based meal = pan
bubur = rice porridge = pan

Can also specify: kasi pan, pan pi selo ala, pan seli, ko pan

Bluesky · Dec 16, 2024, 7:33 AM

rice-rice-rice dalam bahasa inggeris

[thorny sail]

mpunga mchele wali

unrelated tapi kalau orang malaysia biasanya dilafalkan /ə/nya "inggeris" atau juga sering dielide?

[warm yoke]

saya tunggu di lapangan terbang

penerbangan ditangguhkan

[thorny sail]

ditunda

[warm yoke]

iyya

[thorny sail]

occasions in which i need to refer to a speed bump in my life have been rare enough that i still nearly use the ideophone my family came up with growing up

which is "jegleng" /d͡ʒə.glɛŋ/

coincidentally this was also our word for "flush"

[warm yoke]

teks ini adalah betul? https://tokipona.org/index.html#id

[thorny sail]

memadai 👍

[crude sage]

bagi saya, ini ok saja

[warm yoke]

terima kasih

saya menerjemahkan ke bahasa melayu juga: https://tokipona.org/#ms

[eternal ingot]

menurut saya masih ada yang bisa diperbaiki
tetapi secara keseluruhan, maksud teksnya bisa dimengerti

[warm yoke]

tolong beri kepada saya apa saya harus memperbaiki

[eternal ingot]

berdasarkan terjemahan anda dan situs bahasa inggrisnya, ini terjemahan saya ke bahasa Indonesia:

・Bahasa Toki Pona adalah bahasa manusia sederhana yang saya buat pada tahun 2001. Bahasa ini adalah upaya saya dalam memahami makna hidup dalam 120 kata

・Kini, komunitas ini memiliki puluhan ribu anggota dan sekitar 120 hingga 140 kata, tergantung penutur atau cara menghitungnya

・Bahasa Toki Pona adalah salah satu bahasa buatan terpopuler, kedua setelah bahasa Esperanto menurut kebanyakan perhitungan, dan melebihi Esperanto di kalangan muda

・Pada tahun 2024, Universitas Colorado Boulder mengundang saya untuk memberikan ceramah kepada 120 peserta yang berjudul Dari Karya Seni Pribadi Jadi Bahasa Dunia Kecil

・Bacalah perbandingan dengan bahasa Esperanto dan kesalahpahaman yang sering terjadi

・Pada tahun 2022, ISO 639-3 menetapkan kode ‘tok’ untuk bahasa Toki Pona, yang menggolongkannya sebagai bahasa dunia

[warm yoke]

terima kasih!!!!

[eternal ingot]

for cross reference, here's my translation's literal translation into english:

[warm yoke]

can i say:
Kini, komunitas ini memiliki puluhan ribu anggota. Bahasa memiliki sekitar 120 hingga 140 kata, tergantung penutur atau cara menghitungnya.

because komunitas doesn't have kata

[eternal ingot]

yes, it's possible

but for the second part, you'll have to say "bahasa ini" or else people will get confused as to which "bahasa" you're referring to

without "ini" it's like there is no "the":
"language has around 120 to 140 words"

[warm yoke]

pona mute!! mi sin e lipu: https://tokipona.org/#id

[primal violet]

Permisi Sonja Lang, apakah benar jika kata "pu" dan "ku" berasal Toki Pona digabungkan (diurut berdasarkan tanggal publikasi kedua buku) akan membentuk kata "puku" yaitu kata "buku" yang berasal dari Bahasa Indonesia/Bahasa Melayu jika ditokiponisasikan ke dalam bahasa Toki Pona menjadi "puku" sesuai fonotatik bahasa Toki Pona. Pesan ini ditulis dalam bahasa Indonesia.

[warm yoke]

hanya kebetulan

[primal violet]

Oke, Sonja Lang. Terima kasih ya atas jawabannya!

[surreal cedar]

Cuman baru beberapa hari aku baru tahu ada buku toki pona Indonesia.

[crude sage]

menarik 🙂

[fallen falcon]

pajama is baju tidur

literally, its sleep shirt, ig

[eternal ingot]

that's the calque / direct translation version though
there's also "piyama", the loanword version from dutch "pyjama"

[eternal ingot]

sayangnya hanya tersedia di internet archive, dan sedikit orang sini yang mengenalnya

[fallen falcon]

it could have been my dialect

[eternal ingot]

yeah i just realized that also

[fallen falcon]

I didn't speak proper Malay

[static salmon]

mi sona ala e nimi Pijama

ni la mi kama sona

a toki Malasija la ona li ante https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pijama

[fallen falcon]

ah

[static salmon]

https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piama

kalama ona li suwi :3 piama

[fallen falcon]

I didn't say bayi but I prefer to say baby instead

do you call a dog anjing or anying

[static salmon]

tan seme a

ni li tan wuwojiti ona anu seme

[fallen falcon]

I still can pronounce yi, it's just that I'm so used to baby more than bayi

[eternal ingot]

anying
mi kute e nimi ni la:

[eternal ingot]

i always use anjing for the animal
because unfortunately "anying" is almost always used to refer to the curse word around here

[static salmon]

tenpo suno pini la mi lukin e soweli ni #soweli-en-kasi-tpt message

ona li tawa la sitelen li jo e monsi ona taso

[fallen falcon]

kinder bueno white

sangat lazat

[surreal cedar]

ni li kama lon lawa mi: kalau orang ngomong "usah", pasti dikatain di frasa "gak usah" (dinegasi). "usah" taso li nasa.

@thin mango o, sina wile e seme tan mi.

[surreal cedar]

I wonder why we use animal words for cursing. We have "anjing" and "babi". I believe the Malay also use the latter along with "buaya".

@thin mango ojuta

[eternal ingot]

something to do with culture probably
i've heard that most european / romance languages have curse words related to parents / religion, so there's that

a, mi weka sona
tenpo pi toki pona taso li kama lon tenpo ni

[surreal cedar]

jike

ale li ken taso toki pona tawa tenpo sike suno sin.

[fallen falcon]

my classmates has been calling each other "gila"

[warm yoke]

cannot say this word in english anymore. i updated my books.

[crude sage]

Selamat Tahun Baru semua!!!!!!
(ini ikut masa di Malaysia)

[surreal cedar]

tenpo sike suno sin pona, a, tawa jan Intonesija pi kipisi tenpo WIB (UTC+7).

[eternal ingot]

i guess it's still tamer than the madness i've heard during my high school years...?

[surreal cedar]

racial slurs galore?

[eternal ingot]

in addition to insults to intelligence, AND animal names
it's.... a sight to behold / hear, all in all

[surreal cedar]

typical Indonesian SMA, really

[eternal ingot]

you'd actually stand out (in an arguably bad way) by using tamer words
...which i did (keren, mantap, luar biasa, bodoh, etc.)

[surreal cedar]

I reserve Indonesian swears for when I'm actually angry; I feel that they have more of a punch compared to English ones. I primarily speak to my close friends in English, so we'd just swear in it.

[surreal cedar]

In Indonesian messaging, people like to overshorten words to the point that the language should just be written with an abjad. I wonder if one could do so in toki pona as well.

tk a, jn al o. tnp ni la, mi kpkn nsn tk pi stln ll. kpkn nsn ni la, jn li kn tk kpkn tnp ll kpkn il sp stln on -- sma nsn jn Intonesija.

kn la, mi o tk kpkn ni ln #toki-pona-taso, a a.

[eternal ingot]

yeah, i kinda dislike that, actually
i'm ok with shortening words, but when your entire message looks more like some sort of language puzzle, that's crossing the line

i guess it's a balance between convenience and clarity

i hate it when people need to share important instructions or clarifications, yet still overshorten everything, and then get mad when i ask again / can't comprehend them

[surreal cedar]

cwk atau cwk

[fallen falcon]

hai

[eternal ingot]

halo

[crude sage]

menarik 🙂

[warm yoke]

nama basa Jawa itu "toki Sowa" anu seme?

[surreal cedar]

"toki Sawa" li pona.

kepeken kon jan Sawa wawa la, jan li toki e nimi "Jawa" kepeken /d͡ʒɒwɒ/. taso, nimi "Sowo" li wuwojiti. ni la, kin la, jan Intonesija ante li ken sona pona mute e /d͡ʒawa/ la, mi pilin e ni: nimi "Sawa" li pona.

ante la... I didn't know "changi" was a portmanteau of "cengal pasir". I thought it was some weird non-Pinyin transliteration of something Chinese.

[eternal ingot]

mi lukin e ni la, mi pilin e ni: toki pona e toki Intonesija ala pi ma Intonesia, e toki Melaju ala pi ma Melaju, li musi

[surreal cedar]

li kepeken ala kepeken nasin kijetesantakalu en sina?

[eternal ingot]

nasin kijetesantakalu li seme a ?

[primal violet]

taso, di dialek lain yang saya lihat di Wiktionary Bahasa Inggris, cara bacanya tu, li /dʒɔ.wɔ/ li /dʒa.waʔ/ li /dʒa.wə/. toki pona la, nimi ona li ken toki Sowo anu toki Sawa. (ini ditulis menggunakan bahasa Indonesia) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ꦗꦮ#Javanese

[surreal cedar]

toki sina la, sina kepeken nasin SOV anu seme?

[eternal ingot]

(sejujurnya kurang yakin; biasanya SVO atau kadang VOS)

[warm yoke]

nimi Sowa li ken. taso kalama "Sowo" li ken ala.

[eternal ingot]

i vaguely remember reading somewhere that whether "a" becomes /a/ or /ɔ/ depends on whether the syllable is open or not

or i think it was whether it's a word-final syllable or not ? i don't remember

[fallen falcon]

in malay, to say future, you have to say masa depan, which literally means forward time

[fallen falcon]

apa

[eternal ingot]

a, sitelen Lontala li jo e sitelen pona
taso, jan li sitelen e toki kepeken sitelen ni la, toki li ike

(lontara is aesthetically nice, but writing with it isn't recommended, since consonant clusters and syllable codas can't be represented and aren't written)

[fallen falcon]

nak belajar bahasa melayu lagi di sini

[warm yoke]

cendol

buku menarik

[fallen falcon]

mana satu buku ni awak suka lagi daripada yang lain

[warm yoke]

nasi lemak di KL

https://youtu.be/LymL2YTJ8xQ?si=bVLqxS3d7JzyL4q0

[surreal cedar]

Memakai nasi pandan kah?

[warm yoke]

ya

Kuala Lumpur

[surreal cedar]

moku Nasi Lema li pona. taso, pilin mi la, ma Intonesija la, namako seli Sanpa ||(sambal)|| pi ma Malasija li seli lili.

[surreal cedar]

org mana

[surreal cedar]

we say bendul

[surreal cedar]

I think if a real-life language were to evolve similar into Toki Pona, it would be one of the Malay creoles located in East Indonesia

They are already pretty simple for one, both in grammar and in phonology. By simple, I mean that their vowels, consonants, etc have been heavily reduced compared to "inner" Malay varieties, partly due to influence from the local CMP and Papuan languages in the area. Malay's six vowel system collapsed into a five-vowel system, with the schwa being assimilated into one of the five vowels. Though, this is very inconsistent and I'm still not aware of their conditions. Take these three words and their descendants:
Malay - Moluccan Malay

/əmpat/ - /ampa/
/pərut/ - /puru/
/dəŋar/ - /deŋar/
/pəluk/ - /polo/

As you can see here, some consonants are dropped too. But just like the consonants they are pretty sporadic in their distribution. This most often happens with final /k/ which is commonly pronounced as a glottal stop in other Malay varieties.

Another example in Moluccan Malay, the final /t/ is dropped in melihat into lia but not in berat into barat

Another regional influence in these langs is the tendency to nasalise word-final nasals into /ŋ/. However, again, this is not regular. Lawan became lawang and ayam became ayang, but hentam is realised as hantam

You can feel the vibes already

As on their grammar, it's pretty simplified like other Malay creoles. What that means is that many of the agglutinative suffixes have been lost, for the cost of a very strict SVO word-order. This is due to Chinese influence, which also introduced the punya particle as a particle for possession. This word already existed in Classical Malay however it was just a verb back then. It is realised in many different ways across the languages, including forms like pu, pung, pe, etc...

The only "productive" suffixes are ber- and ter-, but from what I've noticed they are just fossilised instead of actually being productive.

Berjalan meaning to walk becomes bajalang

Adik saya mahu berjalan ke sana would become Saya pe ade mo bajalang pi sana in Manado

saya punya adik mahu berjalan pergi sana

Given the right sound changes, you could make this into a pretty solid TP lookalike!

Not to mention, many of these langs modified Malay's pronoun systems, including borrowing words from local languages and semantic shifting. So you wouldn't have to worry about say, aku and kau sounding similar.

In fact, most of these don't even use the word aku. They use the word saya instead

Pretty typical for a Malay creole, actually.

also wowww

what was jan Sonja doing in KL? 😮

Almost forgot too, one of them replaced the postalveolar affricates with the sequences /ti/ and /di/

so gerEja became /geredia/

[fallen falcon]

pisang goreng

[warm yoke]

nasin seme la jan li toki e nimi ni lon toki Melaju lon toki Intonesija? https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Toki_Pona_speaker#In_other_languages

[mossy zealot]

saya beli beberapa buku baru di acara bazaar buku di universitas saya :o

[fallen falcon]

relearning malay helps me realized my classmates are calling each other animals

atleast relearning my dialect

[warm yoke]

bahasa orang asli dekat pulau pinang

[warm yoke]

toki! sina ale li lon ala lon lipu ni? https://ma.pona.la/

kalian sudah berada di peta ini?

[fallen falcon]

ikan

[warm yoke]

https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelu_masak_pisang?wprov=sfti1

[warm yoke]

https://youtu.be/HcBNdrmjczE?si=PU4HOHEKR9Xc_Qg4

[lime inlet]

maaf jika gambar x jelas sangat , tetapi kepada sesiapa yang minat dengan seni dan budaya — di muzium belia dan balai seni lukis melaka ada exhibit(?) seni berdasarkan sulalatus salatin (malay annals)

orang yang jaga muzium tersebut sangat beramah (suka menerangkan sejarah) dan boleh ambik banyak gambar dan video dlm muzium ini

lagi satu , di sini digalakkan cakap dalam bahasa baku atau boleh guna bahasa pasar/singkatan ?

[warm yoke]

sangat menarik

saya baca tentang Mat Sabu dan parti melayu/islam progresif

[warm yoke]

ini di bandar mana?

[warm yoke]

awak boleh coba banyak gaya. dan saya boleh beritahu, apakah saya faham

jenis ikan kecil ini wujud di negara kanada. ia sedikit serupa ikan bilis

[lime inlet]

wah terus makan ikannya sahaja ? menarik

[lime inlet]

ini kat bandaraya melaka ^^ berdekatan dgn stadthuys seingat saya . situ ada banyak muzium menarik

[warm yoke]

bagus!

melaka ada sejarah lama dan penting

kaum pendatang dari eropah tukar-menukar dengan orang tempatan

gambar seronok ini ada maklumat betul atau terlalu dipermudahkan?

[lime inlet]

ahhh sejarah saya tak berapa bagus sangat tetapi utk maritime , lebih kurang betul rasanya kerana mmg ada fokus terhadap perdagangan . tetapi ada juga peperangan ( itu yg menyebabkan kejatuhan kesultanan melayu melaka)

dan pada masa dulu "malaysia" tidak wujud seperti malaysia yang kita tahu sekarang tapi saya faham penggunaan bendera moden adalah utk lebih senang faham hahaha

buku teks sejarah yang digunakan dlm sekolah menengah boleh jumpa secara online jika jan Sonja berminat , cuma saya tak pasti ketepatan maklumatnya

[warm yoke]

dahulu dikenal sebagai tanah melayu

kami tinggal di pulau pinang semasa musim sejuk negara kanada

tapi akan beli rumah di bukit bintang, kl dan pindah ke sana

saya suka kampung baru di KL. saya makan pemcuci mulut melayu di sana

putu piring!

[lime inlet]

putu piring sedap :D putu bambu pernah rasa ?

[warm yoke]

@halcyon nova

apa khabar?

[warm yoke]

ah, saya tidak ingat!

[halcyon nova]

khabar baik!

[warm yoke]

jan Itan dan saya cari filem dan lagu menarik dalam bahasa melayu-indonesia

jan Itan. awak suka jenis apa? cinta? seram? dan lain lain

saya sudah kenal filem seram klasik di youtube

[halcyon nova]

ya! sila berikan cadangan
Hmm, saya suka sci-fi 😅

[halcyon nova]

Oh, saya berminat! Apakah mereka?

[warm yoke]

filem ini dari malaysia atau indonesia? entah.

hantu: various folklore monsters and ghosts and demons

[halcyon nova]

are Malay and Indonesian similar enough that speakers have near-interintelligability? Like Spanish and Portuguese for example

[warm yoke]

saya rasa bahasa melayu dan bahasa indonesia sangat serupa

ada banyak filem tentang "orang minyak"

saya sedang tulis buku kecil tentang gaya bahasa antara bahasa melayu dan bahasa indonesia

orang dari dua negara boleh faham gaya ini

e.g. both regional flavours of the macro language form questions differently

but both can use the "just a sentence with a question mark and intonation" method

[halcyon nova]

sona pona a

[warm yoke]

pronouns are tricky

[halcyon nova]

mi kepeken lili ilo Translate twaa ni a a, taso awen la ni li pona e sona mi

[warm yoke]

malay has a convenient awak but it is not used in indonesia

[warm yoke]

ale li pona

[halcyon nova]

my anki deck just uses kamu it seems

[warm yoke]

tenpo mute la mi kin li kama sona kepeken ilo, kepeken lipu

kamu is considered a bit too informal in some regions

[halcyon nova]

Oh good to know, for some reason i thought i'd heard it was the more formal option

[warm yoke]

people use titles and relationships a lot instead of "you"

adik

mak cik

[halcyon nova]

interesting!

[warm yoke]

would professor like some tea?

does mother like this kind of soup? indonesians say ibu for you, with a flavour like madam or ms

[halcyon nova]

i like that nasin for formality

[warm yoke]

in the neutral nasin i am working on, we avoid any pronoun for you by using their name or relationship or title, but Anda is available as a formal last option

malaysia/singapore va indonesia loaned some words from different languages

kereta from portuguese vs mobil from dutch

[halcyon nova]

that's really supprising to me

it makes me realize how very little i know of the history of those place and languages

[warm yoke]

pronunciation should be very easy. assume e is schwa by default and learn a small list of common words where e is like toki pona e

[halcyon nova]

yea i've found it pretty easy so far indeed

sentence structure, too

[warm yoke]

some morphological stuff is fairly easy to learn

like how sebut becomes menyebut

s->ny

[halcyon nova]

oh yea i've encountered one of those

i think

[warm yoke]

there is like 3 or 4 of those and they make sense once you are familiar

[halcyon nova]

Jangan munghubunginya

or something close to that

[warm yoke]

dont contact him/her/it

or connect

the affixes are super handy and fairly regular, like pemandu for driver

pe- = -er

ke-...-an

[halcyon nova]

Yeah i read somewhere that its affixes and word-building are pretty cool

[warm yoke]

me-...-kan is not always needed, you can get away with must the root for a verb, but it means a transitive verb

[halcyon nova]

ohhh

[warm yoke]

ber-... is like an intransitive verb or an adjective modifying a noun

[halcyon nova]

memerlukan to need (something)

[warm yoke]

saya beragama bahai. i am of the bahai faith.

[warm yoke]

yeah perlu is usually fine

[halcyon nova]

sona pona a

[warm yoke]

se-... is super interesting. if means "of the same..."

sekeluarga: of the same family

setuju : of the same direction or heading or goal, i.e. agree

sekutu: of the same lice, i.e. close allies

se- is related to satu

[halcyon nova]

dang that's so cool!

[warm yoke]

baju berwarna biru = a blue-coloured shirt

warna = colour

[halcyon nova]

seorang?

[warm yoke]

oh right

there are classifiers but usually optional

just focus on: orang for people, buah for most things, ékor for animals, biji for small things like pills or seeds

[halcyon nova]

ok yea i was wondering what exactly the categories are

[warm yoke]

there are like 10 most common ones and maybe 30 more literary ones in total

dua ekor rusa = two tails of deer

[halcyon nova]

i've been shown ramai orang, helai selinan, and buah kerusi

[warm yoke]

sebuah rumah = a house

ramai is just an exception of banyak for orang

and ramai can drop orang

helai i forget is it the one for flat sheets?

[halcyon nova]

yea copies

in my deck

[warm yoke]

the meN-...-i verb pattern is like indirect objects like a location or things like that

[halcyon nova]

so like i could say berapa ramai akan datang? instead of berapa ramai orang akan datang??

[warm yoke]

i think so

not a native speaker of course

yang takes getting used to

[halcyon nova]

fair enough

oh yea yang

yang akan datang

[warm yoke]

yang is like "which, that, who + optional linking verb"

buku yang menarik = an interesting book, book that is interesting

[halcyon nova]

Yeah it leads to some honestly engish-y constructions imo

[warm yoke]

a book that pulls, literally

[halcyon nova]

oh cool haha

[warm yoke]

let me when brain overloaded

or if other patterns have been noticed and confused you

[halcyon nova]

definately, will do!

i think mi tawa for now, i appreciate the tidbits!

[warm yoke]

jumpa lagi!

[halcyon nova]

jumpa lagi!

[surreal cedar]

I'm not sure whether either construction sounds natural in Malay. However, in Indonesian, I'd prefer either one of these two.

Seberapa ramai orang**-orang** yang akan datang?
"seberapa" tends to be used instead of "berapa" when it comes to the measurement of non-discrete things (more similar to general comparational adjectival measurement). Thus, it's more often followed by adjectives, whereas "berapa" is most often used when it precedes a countable noun (except for "berapa banyak ...", at the top of my head). Additionally, the pluralization of "orang" would sound more natural in this context.

• seberapa ... -> "how ..."
• berapa ... -> "how many ..."
• [se]berapa banyak ... -> "how much ..."

Seramai apa orang-orang yang akan datang?
"seramai" works as well, followed with "apa". Literally: "as crowded as what"

[warm yoke]

wah terima kasih

[lime inlet]

i might be wrong but for malay orang-orang sounds less natural compared to just orang . informally though you could drop a lot especially with context ex : berapa ramai datang ? / berapa ramai datang nanti ?

[lime inlet]

aaaaaa saya ada terjumpa account utk kedai buku independant (menjual zine dan buku self-published termasuklah karya dari lgbtq+ !!! /pos) tetapi saya tak mampu pergi situ sendiri sbb kedainya di kl :(

[warm yoke]

o pana e sona pi esun lipu ni

[ancient nymph]

i find that the differences are still better described as british vs american english

its still not perfect, but the two languages arent that divergent like spanish and portuguese

spanish and portuguese diverged since the early middle ages atleast, meanwhile its still debatable whether malay and indonesian are separate languages

speakers also often interact with each other

indonesian memes, trends, etc always spreads to malaysian internet. malaysians also tend to codeswitch to indonesian or use set indonesian phrases for comedic effect.

[ancient nymph]

not dipermudahkan but diringkaskan

mudah = easy
ringkas = simple, concise

[ancient nymph]

awak is used in some parts of indonesia

in palembang it means i, me instead of you

its important to remember that indonesian is just a lingua franca

theres not really a set ethnicity or culture to it

and in indonesia there are many other malay dialects

spoken by ethnic malays

[halcyon nova]

great context, thank you!

[warm yoke]

terima kasih

[lime inlet]

nama kedainya tokosue , mi sona e ona tan ni : https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJWnqO2ycLF/?igsh=YXVmMHJycTB4bDk=

whataweirdvoice

Inclusive Spaces: @tokosuemalaysia 📚

If you didn’t already know, TOKOSUE is currently fighting to stay open with their Save A Bookstore campaign 📈

So if you’re interested in visiting, go now and support them!! Buy a book, participate in a zine workshop or just go and interact with Kak Sue - trust you won’t regret it 🤓

Oh!! And ...

Likes

5414

Instagram

[warm yoke]

https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antropologi_budaya?wprov=sfti1

[jagged wren]

Dah lamanya gw belajar juga ngomong dalam toki pona wkwk

selama, hampir 3 tahun

[abstract cargo]

Bjir, kamu yang di server viossa itu kan :v

[jagged wren]

Yep

tumben ada indo jg di situ

[warm yoke]

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:4j5nbrwv2u22nfvquf7pojfb/post/3lqbfxofwf22f

Sonja Lang (Toki Pona) (@tokipona.org)

forms.gle/pgqYsMaDWFNP...
Public Consultation for Names of Some Countries and Languages
DEADLINE: 2025-06-05
#tokipona

Bluesky · May 29, 2025, 12:00 AM

[surreal cedar]

pada ad orang Indo di sana kah?

iirc, aku join servernya bbrp bulan lalu, tpi sekarang udh jarang visit sih

I wonder, memang udh ada kah vocab Indo-Melayu yg masuk lexicon Viossa?

[jagged wren]

Ada beberapa

Tp gw ga mau ngespil yg mana, soalnya takutnya agak menantang bagi aturan Viossa

• gw pernah buatin kata kata indo/melayu ke bahasa tersebut

[surreal cedar]

fŝto

[warm yoke]

apa pendapat kamu semua tentang bahasa euskara?

[jagged wren]

bahasanya tentu unik dari bahasa eropa lainnya. selain dari satu-satunya bahasa eropa yang tidak termasuk keluarga IE, tetapi juga mengandung 23 kasus

[warm yoke]

saya fikir bahasa bugis juga ada sifat seperti ergativ

[jagged wren]

Oh ya sama itu juga

Bahasanya Euskara ergatif

[fallen falcon]

i would like to talk about ini, it looks like a frowning face crying

[surreal cedar]

warga sukabumi

[surreal cedar]

I can't confirm for sure, but is there any other Indonesian who feels that the word "bakal" in comparison to "akan" carries some sort of subjunctive/conditional connotation?

[warm yoke]

i can check my corpus how bakal is used by singaporean authors if it offers any different perspective

[surreal cedar]

I understand that both words only differ in formality. Though, I believe it may be because "bakal" tends to be used to describe relations following other clauses, since colloquially, the future tense is not marked like with "akan" in formal writing, as keterangan waktu would be used instead when there exists no context preceding it.

• Aku besok cariin tukang AC.
• Kubakal cariin tukang AC kalau ACnya rusak.

It's not really the subjunctive mood, I guess. I was only stating how my mind was more likely to associate "akan" with "will", and "bakal" with "would".

[fallen falcon]

there is a bilingual pun
nak air
air apa
i love you

[opal patrol]

I don't get it

mi tak sona e ni

[fallen falcon]

maybe it depends on dialect

[eternal ingot]

mungkin leluconnya di pelafalan huruf r ?
soalnya tergantung logat / bahasa daerah, suaranya bisa mirip banget sama l (apalagi kalau cadel)

[warm yoke]

apa nama paling baik untuk bahasa yang ramai orang di banyak negara di asia tenggara bisa faham?

mungkin "bahasa nusantara" atau hanya "bahasa" atau "bahasa melayu-indonesia" atau "bahasa kita"

<@&842035750668599297>

[surreal cedar]

"bahasa" bisa

[tranquil coyote]

"bahasa"

[surreal cedar]

Lengkapnya sih "bahasa Melayu-Indonesia" juga bisa, tapi "bahasa Nusantara" agak terdengar "sok patriotik".

Istilah "Nusantara", setidaknya kalau di Indonesia ya, juga lumayan dikaitkan ke wilayah/negara Indonesia langsung.

[abstract cargo]

Saya lihat ada banyak orang Indonesia yang menganjurkan tidak memakai kata "bahasa" untuk "bahasa Indonesia", meskipun banyak juga yang tidak peduli https://www.rxddit.com/r/indonesia/s/PrIsotUL55

[warm yoke]

orang berbahasa inggeris selalunya guna istilah "bahasa" untuk semua jenis bahasa di kepulauan kita

"oh yeah i am learning bahasa now"

tapi orang di indonesia, malaysia, singapura dan brunei bisa setuju tentang nama apa?

"ah kamu berasal dari negara tiu? dan saya berasal dari negara ini. jadi jom guna nama bahasa bersama."

kamu erti bahwa orang dari sulawesi dan orang dari johor akan guna bahasa inggeris bersama?

"bahasa indo-melayu"?

iyya seperti kereta mobil

[gloomy loom]

ini Sonja lang beneran?

baru tau bisa berbahasa Indo dan Melayu

maaf agak lancang

[warm yoke]

kita boleh guna hanya istilah "kenderaan" dan elakkan masalah mobil / kereta? atau tidak cukup jelas?

[gloomy loom]

seperti itu sudah cukup jelas

[warm yoke]

dahulu aku tinggal 3 tahun di singapura

[gloomy loom]

aaa

macam tuu

[warm yoke]

dan saya akan pindah ke KL atau Pulau Pinang

[gloomy loom]

aaaa

pernah tak cuba pergi ke indonesia

macam bali, jakarta, atau kota lainnya?

[warm yoke]

hanya idea

hanya sebuah permulaan

contoh

kampung atau desa

uang atau wang

dll

macam mana kita boleh memutuskan bentuk peralihannya

tanggal / tarikh

[warm yoke]

https://chat.whatsapp.com/Ch9CgSOVGvrEEZbNDr9DsV

[surreal cedar]

wile kama. taso ike la, kulupu Wasa li pana lukin e nanpa ilo toki tawa jan ante.

[warm yoke]

loooon a

tan ni la mi o kepeken ilo Telegram

[errant field]

What's this? Aku baru ngecek pingnya untuk apa

[gloomy loom]

ape tu ping?

[errant field]

Yang merah itu di atas icon servernya

Ga jadi deh ngescroll aja dari atas

[gloomy loom]

yaa sesuai nama channel nya aja

ini thread khusus untuk bahasa indo-melayu dari channel toki inli ala (tanpa bahasa inggris)!

[warm yoke]

iyya

[warm yoke]

https://t.me/+IrjDjO76kOY4OTI5

[surreal cedar]

nama saya Justis

I'm learning Malay, and jan Sonja helped me find a word deck for the language

[warm yoke]

selamat datang

[outer hazel]

slmat dtng

slmat pagi

[sly prawn]

haloooo

[jagged wren]

haioo

[jagged wren]

Video itu merupakan sebuah translasi dari video yang berbahasa Maluku

[jagged wren]

Pertama kali gw belajar toki pona itu sejak tahun 2021 saat berjalan-jalan di Bali

Skrg gw kembali lagi ngomong toki pona serta datang kembali ke pulau Bali, jadi smaking bernostalgia a!

[jagged wren]

mi wile kama tawa kulupu ni, taso mi ken ala lon tenpo ni :(

ni la mi ken kepeken ala e ilo open pi kulupu ni

[sly prawn]

Halooo

[jagged wren]

Hai!!!

[fossil kindle]

Toki a!

[warm yoke]

dalam 3 menit, ketahui daftar periksa dasar bagi warga biasa seperti kita untuk memberikan pertolongan pertama

https://youtu.be/WnjdGWm9Z_k?si=9IqrBks4BgmnN619

https://youtu.be/c3E29yfDHQg?si=z8iqfal_WS_pdut9

[warm yoke]

https://youtu.be/wOamSyho6c0?si=RcgQ1fF81ie60fuv

[winged frost]

Hi! Sonja kindly asks not to be pinged directly unless you know her well or she initiated a topic to ask for help. If you have a question, try asking the community first. If you see her active in a channel, that’s the best time to say hi and ask anything. Thanks for your understanding!

[warm yoke]

toki

http://egyptmonocle.com/product/pintu-minimalis-kayu-nangka-warna-kuning-model-kupu-tarung/ Jual Pintu Minimalis Kayu Nangka Warna Kuning Model Kupu Tarung

[abstract cargo]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/indonesia/s/P4MHlOiSfy

[eternal ingot]

kalau dipikir-pikir, esperanto itu kaya bahasa eropa yang sifatnya kaya bahasa-bahasa sini ga sih ?

kata dasar + imbuhan o, selalu jadi kata benda lah
kata dasar + imbuhan as bakal jadi kata kerja lah

[abstract cargo]

kurang tahu saya, saya ngga bisa bahasa esperanto wkwkwk

[fallen falcon]

boleh tak nak pet gambar awak

[eternal ingot]

pendeknya gini sih:
manĝ- itu kata dasarnya
manĝo itu "makanan"
manĝas itu "memakan"
manĝado itu "pemakanan"
manĝanta itu "sedang memakan"
manĝanto itu "orang yang sedang makan"
manĝita itu "yang dimakan"
dsb.
mirip bahasa-bahasa sini banget

[abstract cargo]

interesting, emang sih pernah denger bahasa sini berat banget ke imbuhan imbuhannya

[eternal ingot]

bawa-bawa esperanto ke kepulauan asia tenggara yang udah full sama bahasa penuh imbuhan... rasanya kaya ngelakuin sesuatu yang udah dilakuin orang sini :v
tetep sih, jasa sama visinya pak Zamenhof harus dihormatin; bukan maksudnya gimana

[eternal ingot]

boleh lah ?
seingat saya tak ada pembatasan untuk gambar ?

[fallen falcon]

tengah cakap ke jan Kasita

[eternal ingot]

a, tenpo ni li tenpo suli pi ma Intonesija a

[fallen falcon]

i wonder if anyone here uses kacang to mean "easy" or "piece of cake"

[errant field]

^
jan li toki e ni? kacang = kacang

[fallen falcon]

malay

[vocal pendant]

toki!

ada orang..?

[vocal pendant]

nimi mi li Sanfilzands. taso sina ken toki e mi kepeken nimi jan Sapilisan.

(and yes, it's a pun)

mi tan ma Intonesija

[sly prawn]

Halo semuanyaaaa

[static salmon]

toki

[vocal pendant]

halo

[vocal pendant]

sina mute li lon seme?

[static salmon]

mi lon ma Nakawisanpilan

[vocal pendant]

Negeri Sembilan?

[static salmon]

ya

betul

[vocal pendant]

mi lon ma Sawa Palata

[static salmon]

Jawa ??????

mi sona ala

[vocal pendant]

Yes. Which Jawa?

[static salmon]

jawa barat?

[vocal pendant]

Yes!

[static salmon]

a

[fallen falcon]

di sekolah, saya dapat enam puluh dengan bahasa melayu dan tujuh puluh lima dengan bahasa ingeris

markah

[vocal pendant]

relatable.

[vocal pendant]

hmm... I'm no expert in Toki Pona. But I think "Nakisanpilan" or "Naki Sanpilan" would be better.

tapi saya sebenarnya kurang tahu juga pengucapannya di bahasa Melayu.

[sly prawn]

mi lon ma Tankulan

[vocal pendant]

Tangerang?

wawa a!

[sly prawn]

Iya

Betul sekali

[vocal pendant]

bentar, tidak ada r di toki pona...

[sly prawn]

Eh

Diganti l dong

Maklum baru nge-recall pembelajaran toki pona

[vocal pendant]

mi lon ma Silepon

anu Silupon

[static salmon]

mi tawa ma Tawankanu :)

[vocal pendant]

terengganu?

[static salmon]

a

[vocal pendant]

mu

[vocal pendant]

n. jan ale li weka lon tomo ni a!

di mana semuanya?

[static salmon]

mi lon ma Tawankanu

[vocal pendant]

lon.

[gloomy loom]

ma Tawankanu li seme

mi tan ma Wonokili (Wonogiri, jawa tengah)

[sly prawn]

Terengganu, Malaysia (sepertinya)

toki a! nimi mi jan eten

[sly prawn]

Cirebon?

[vocal pendant]

yes

[vocal pendant]

gak boleh ada Wo di toki pona

syllables that aren't allowed:
wu, wo, ti, ji
wun, won, tin, jin

nn.. pilin mi la tomo ni li weka mute. ala li pona.

nn... o toki e ijo pona! sina ale la toki ni li seme?

[sly prawn]

Ohhh

[sly prawn]

Jadi kalo wonogiri itu uhh Wanokili

biar enek

[gloomy loom]

Ahh! iya ya

aku lupa aturannya

[vocal pendant]

atau bisa juga Onokili

jadi ilang aja W nya

[sly prawn]

Oh iya juga ya

Maklum baru nge-recall balik

[vocal pendant]

tenpo sike sina li seme?

[vocal pendant]

*li mute seme?

[sly prawn]

||aku lupa||

[vocal pendant]

||wkwk||

[sly prawn]

||Kalo misalkan kek 9th february itu di toki pona fimana||

||AKU BINGUNGNYA GIMANA GITU CARA JAWABNYA||

[vocal pendant]

||tanggal 9 bulan 2||

||tenpo suno nanpa luka tu tu
tenpo mun nanpa tu||

[sly prawn]

||MAKASIH NOTED.||

[vocal pendant]

pakai angka sistem kompleks

[sly prawn]

ohhhh

[vocal pendant]

wan = 1
tu = 2
luka = 5
mute = 20
ale/ali = 100

[sly prawn]

Tau

Tenpo suno nanpa sama tenpo mun nanpa

Aku kiranya tenpo suli sama tenpo lili

Bingung

Wkwkwkwk

[vocal pendant]

tenpo suli sama tenpo lili itu broad banget

bisa merujuk ke banyak hal

[sly prawn]

IYA KANN

TAKUTNYA AMBIGU LAGI

[drifting marsh]

@vocal pendant kalo ini apa

[vocal pendant]

klo gw sih biasanya gini:

tenpo palisa lili = detik / second
tenpo palisa meso = menit / minute
tenpo palisa suli = jam / hour
tenpo suno = hari / day
tenpo esun = pekan / week
tenpo mun = bulan/ month
tenpo sike = tahun / year

[vocal pendant]

bukan gw itu

[drifting marsh]

Kamu itu

[vocal pendant]

parah dituduh kocak

[sly prawn]

Ohhhh

[drifting marsh]

Kamu sendiri yg ngetik

[vocal pendant]

kalau mau ke sini, minimal belajar bahasanya ya

sok di YouTube banyak tuh

atau ke website

[vocal pendant]

jan Kekan San, dll.

[sly prawn]

wasona juga

Banyak tuh

[vocal pendant]

nah iya

[drifting marsh]

Iyh iyh siap

[sly prawn]

pona a

mi sona e toki pona kepeken Wasona

||Bener gak||

[vocal pendant]

kalau saya sih, dibanding "kepeken", mending "tan*

tpi kayaknya itu juga bisa

[sly prawn]

Ahh iya juga ya

Soalnya kalo tan itu

[vocal pendant]

mi en jan Ely li lon tomo sona sama

[sly prawn]

Kek

[vocal pendant]

li lon kulupu sama

[sly prawn]

jan Eli*

[vocal pendant]

kalau misalnya dia nya belum ngasih consent, jangan diubah namanya

iya gak sih?

[sly prawn]

Oh iya juga ya

[vocal pendant]

soalnya kadang bisa aja ada yg tersinggung

[sly prawn]

Ohhhh