sona.pona.la

[split grail]

we maybe need something that deals with times

and converts YYYY-MM-DD to %d %M %YYYY

[regal panther]

i did YMD cuz if you sort it alphabetically it sorts chronologically

[grand marten]

https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#dateformat

[split grail]

yeah

I want to keep it well sorted but also in that format

[split grail]

[grand marten]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Sortable_tables#Date_sorting_problems
https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sorting#Specifying_a_sort_key

[split grail]

can you maybe help first adding it

[grand marten]

lipu nanpa wan la ilo li sona e nasin tenpo anu seme

[split grail]

ilo li sona e nasin tenpo la ona li pana ala pana e tenpo kepeken nasin pona

ni la o ni

[upbeat summit]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Tokiponist

I thought this term was sentence-cased, at least these days

Anyone have thoughts

#sona-kulupu-tpt message

pona tawa sina

Also random thought, should we have an article for proposed Toki Pona mascots

[golden rock]

yes

[upbeat summit]

haue we a list of those anywhere

[grand marten]

#toki-ale message

[split grail]

I made it uppercase to conform with Esperantist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Esperanto_speakers

as it is derived from a proper noun, it also should be capitalised

it's the same argument as 'should toki pona be capitalised or not?'

most people write it lowercase, but this wiki doesn't

[split grail]

there's also the jan pi toki pona character on Commons :>
File:Toki Pona Prolangs.png

[regal panther]

was looking at the media category and realized we dont have a page for videos and the like

[hot trout]

yep

tbh, the Music page looks like hell to maintain, and I have no idea how to get started with a Videos page

[regal panther]

yea im not sure what wed want or how wed want to organize it

maybe separate categories for live action, animations, memes?

[regal panther]

its really just adding all the old stuff thats the hastle, if we get up to date itll be easier to add stuff as it comes out

ive been meaning to go back and more when i have the time

[hot trout]

As far as I am concerned, both for music and for videos, it'd be good to have lists of where to find stuff rather than list all the stuff
seka.pona.la and the big youtube playlist, and then maybe some Chinese video platforms if we have something noteworthy

[grand marten]

mi la ni o lon ala lipu o lon,, ilo ante · mi sona wawa ala e ilo pona

ni li ken li suwi https://github.com/shaarli/Shaarli

taso jan li ken ala pana kepeken ala sijelo la n

[split grail]

porque no los dos

but this is becoming a problem indeed

I want to find something, okay good. where is it in this pile of things

[regal panther]

my hope with the music article was that people would chip in but most of the only stuff on there is stuff i put

[split grail]

yeah

some articles just don't get attention

unless you're a huge nerd)) hi

[upbeat summit]

Trying to think about how to edit and expand https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Gender

I'm not sure the table of translations of English gender terms is going to be the most useful

compared to making a section of ways you can translate the concept of gender in the first place

[split grail]

really not

[upbeat summit]

kule, etc.

and then saying you can modify your translation with like ala for agender, etc.

[split grail]

thank you to whoever wrote the article anyway, it is good and I wouldn't have been able to get it started

[upbeat summit]

It is often way more motivating to have something to work off of than to confront the blank canvas, yes

[split grail]

ala (a-), lili (demi-), telo (-fluid), what more

mute (poly-?), ale (pan-)

also btw, how do you translate 'nasin', the meta usage of it

(you can link to it quickly as {{tp|[[nasin (meta)|]]}})

[upbeat summit]

"style of speech"?

clipping of nasin toki i presume

maybe the article could be named that as well

[upbeat summit]

Gender Fluid = telo tonsi

(real)

[split grail]

it is true fjdsklfsd

like people use telo abstractly like that (from what I read)

[split grail]

wdym

[split grail]

btw I have seen someone who translated 'transition metals' as in the period table as 'kulupu kiwen tonsi' and it is hiliarious to me

[upbeat summit]

[[nasin toki]]

[upbeat summit]

i mEAN.

[split grail]

a

[upbeat summit]

pretty metal indeed to bake nonbinarity into the very elements of the universe

you love to see it

[split grail]

it is

my brain doesn't want to do my homework, but tracking down a single fucking symbol skimming thru lots of pages on the Wayback Machine? sure let's do that

these are soweli to me

let's goo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[upbeat summit]

well obviously, the homework isn't curious and impassioning,,

[split grail]

but this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, yes

[split grail]

so sad having to write in American English (ize, ization and serial commas)

[split grail]

do images on sona.pona.la need any specific licence

[grand marten]

ala

o pana e {{Extra license|ask}}

[split grail]

ah

good

[split grail]

hey Ke Tami, would you like another thing to add as an article 🥺
https://pad.snopyta.org/s/OggBFN-a9

[hot trout]

well, I'm currently trying to figure out how I'd get https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Fonts started

[hot trout]

not sure how that fits into the wiki
tell me which parts go to what pages and I can format it to wiki tables

[split grail]

it's completely fine if you want to do that or more things first

[split grail]

a history and evolution of the dictionary

and also to move stuff from pad.snopyta.org over

the wordlists are enough, as the other things have been archived

(from what I've seen on History)

[hot trout]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/A_history_and_evolution_of_the_dictionary Y?

[split grail]

maybe

History of the dictionary

[split grail]

what is the name of this writing system

[hot trout]

they're trying to write sitelen pona with unicode characters

[split grail]

yeah

[hot trout]

There's no one name for it

[split grail]

[split grail]

can we have something like a {{Words extended}} including words with usages below widespread?

[grand marten]

sitelen [powe] :p

[regal panther]

really at that point we should just point people to other dictionaries

it would get super cluttered

[split grail]

maybe

[split grail]

what is this "ali" glyph

also looking for the usage of ali I found this

pakala, a uncommon

and I realised that writing this part is way harder than I thought

[hot trout]

that is from Wikimedia, they created files that are the glyph + ° for all synonyms

[split grail]

weird

[upbeat summit]

no one actually uses that to my knowledge so i'm gonna change it

[upbeat summit]

So how much of https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vCCNs3h2Tyv2-rcM0xl1hS_qKS9lKF3vPAWRJk44zQI/preview are we planning to include

iirc the point of the wiki was to make information from the quotes easier to find

but at the same time, a lot of these quotes, don't seem super useful after all

[hot trout]

heh
useful to some, not everyone, I guess

[upbeat summit]

At the same time…

How else are we gonna hope to compete with the Lojban wiki…………

hey main page la should the "more articles than we can count" thing really use 𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑠 − 3?

because it seems like 3 articles would be 1 more than we can count

so shouldn't it be 𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑠 − 2

[grand marten]

lipu wan mi la ona li jo e lipu luka luka · taso nimi wan mi la ona li jo e nimi... luka luka · n

[grand marten]

mi sona wawa ala · linja tu wan li lon sitelen mute la ijo

[split grail]

all!!!!!!

[split grail]

they are useful!!!! to me

something else that I want more of are images, spice up the articles with a little doodle on the side :3

[grand marten]

sona mi la mute la ni li lon · kin nimi nasa taso la mi wile wawa ala e ona

[upbeat summit]

Yeah if people want to create original images for the wiki that'd be really neat

[split grail]

I really want to, but I don't have a way to draw digitally

[split grail]

should it be

[WORD] vs. [WORD]
or
[WORD] vs [WORD]

[grand marten]

o sitelen lon lipu · mi ken alasa ilo e sitelen

[split grail]

oo

[grand marten]

taso mi sona ala e ni → ni mi li pona ala pona tawa lukin

mi kepeken ilo [Inkscape] · sitelen ona li ilo a lukin

samaaaa ni

anu ni

https://tenor.com/bLGQp.gif

[split grail]

a ni li pona

oh @hot trout you made this, can I upload it (under CC BY-SA 4.0)?

[hot trout]

You can upload it under CC0 for what I care

[split grail]

thmanks

[grand marten]

[ilo penpo o lukin ala]
i do feel it's kinda silly to ask for permission to upload 6 shapes and 2 words

[split grail]

tila pula

[split grail]

I do feel the same..

but like, oh well, this is the world that we live in

I don't know anything about anything, so I ask before doing anything

because when I didn't, Bad Stuff happened, and I know that it probably won't happen for this, but me and my small brain aren't taking chances

anyways

woe! akesi tawa sina

[mighty seal]

akesi

[split grail]

same thing..

which sounds better for palisa btw, 'hard' or 'sturdy'?

a palisa can be soft and still be palisa (like a pool noodle)

[hot trout]

so sturdy

[split grail]

................I don't know

like.

it can be a little flexible

bend a little

'hard' makes me thing of something that doesn't bend at all

aaa this is hard (the other meaning)

[hot trout]

so... sturdy

[split grail]

bullying

maybe my argument wasn't sturdy enough

[upbeat summit]

I feel like i could make a cleaner version of this

[split grail]

pls do

[split grail]

for some reason this isn't working
File:Toki Pona Prolangs.png

[split grail]

wawa

but tha's not true

it's reversed

lon noka is the orange and lon anpa is blue

[upbeat summit]

but that's what the other one says

[split grail]

wait

ah

I am a fool, ignore me haha

[upbeat summit]

a a a mi anpa anu noka? e sina

i will upload

[grand marten]

a sina kepeken ilo sijelo li kepeken ala ilo lipu anu seme

[upbeat summit]

mi kepeken ilo PowerPoint

[split grail]

gsljdfks

[upbeat summit]

because i didn't feel like messing with Blender rendering for this 😵‍💫** **

[split grail]

that is a the best drawing tool

[upbeat summit]

plus i would have to delete the default cube and then what would i have left to use … … … …

[grand marten]

mi alasa ante e lipu la

[upbeat summit]

um .

that seems bad

When i try to view the article

Error

There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, create this page, or request it.

no idea what's going on, i think we need to contact site staff

[split grail]

oh

ike a

[upbeat summit]

Hope they have good luck fixing it (ona o, o pona pona)

[split grail]

nn

nimi "nasa" li nasa

[grand marten]

aaa mi e soweli [Sonpon] o pali o sitelen · taso mi sona ala ni pona

[split grail]

sometimes I wonder how Sonja managed to use some of the most obscure words for toki pona

[upbeat summit]

I'm surprised none of the etymologies are "It came to me in a dream"

[mighty seal]

some like "e" are a bit like that

[regal panther]

a a a

[mighty seal]

as much as i can remember, i just liked the sound of "e" for the direct object particle out of nowhere

[upbeat summit]

e, the dream particle

While we're waiting for the issue with the wiki to be resolved…

Can we get everyone's permission to upload their toki blorbos to the mascots article thereafter

meli pi telo nasa (Tepo & Lakuse), Toki Pona (elemenopi), Toki Pona and Kijetesantakalu (itsmuffiiee), Toki Pony (zovasoda), Kijetesantakalu (ke tami), dogi bona (nick eman), Kijetesantakalu pona (waso kemu), "That cat girl from the stickers" (solalis Lalage garden)

[grand marten]

jan pali poni li weka e lipu ona la ike

meli soweli la jan ona li sona ala e kulupu ni · ma [pona] li lanpan e meli

kijetesantakalu pi jan [Ke Tami] la sitelen ona li lon nasin [CC BY] · https://janketami.wordpress.com/tag/kijetesantakalu-o/

[upbeat summit]

e pi ku

[upbeat summit]

any updates yet?

[upbeat summit]

no downdates?

[upbeat summit]

mascots li lon sin

[upbeat summit]

tbh is it me or is SP font kinda small

I've been thinking about bumping it up in CSS

what do you think would be a good default, 1.2 em? 1.5 em?

not only is it ideographic and can get really dense, but it's also likely to be unfamiliar to readers, so i feel like erring on the large side

[grand marten]

mi suli ala e ona tan ni taso → sitelen [pona] wan li lon linja pi sitelen [Lasina] la kon mute a li lon sewi ona li lon anpa ona

nanpa line-height li ken weka e ni · taso ni la sitelen [pona] mute li lon linja mute la ike anu seme · ni la {{spmute}} kin pi kon mute o lon anu seme

[upbeat summit]

ike lili ni li tawa pona suli (tawa suli pona kin) la…

[upbeat summit]

then it's misali·gned in table cells

[split grail]

editors, don't write things just in sitelen pona, it's equivalent to writing something in Chinese characters in the middle of a sentence

in sitelen pona
(Glyph for) kijetesantakalu in sitelen pona

[upbeat summit]

could someone make an article for the meli Sonko nasin… debate… thing

[split grail]

did the font for examples change or is it just weird on mobile

[upbeat summit]

it was semi-recently changed to sitelen seli kiwen

[split grail]

it's Noto Serif instead of Sand

[upbeat summit]

oh

i don't think so?

[split grail]

huh

[upbeat summit]

nasal

*nasa

[split grail]

nasal

[upbeat summit]

template not changed since Oct 23

[grand marten]

[ilo penpo o lukin ala]
nasał

[split grail]

penpo

aaa

[upbeat summit]

font shenans remind me

i tried adding a font override parameter to {{sp}}

and i just cannot get it to work

and all the font-specific usage examples in [[sitelen pona]] and all are still broken

[split grail]

I remember you suffering thru it

@fontpeople help

[hot trout]

hmmm there's something wonky about the conditionals in the template

yeah, that should do it

[split grail]

it works but

hovering doesn't work

[hot trout]

hmmmmm that's not something that can be done inline...
According to the CSS, once the .sitelen-pona gets hovered over, its font-family gets changed to sans-serif
But once we add font-family in the template, what's in the template overrides the stylesheet CSS
So what we'd actually need to do is either add !important to the font-family line for the .sitelen-pona:hover or add extra classes for each font

[split grail]

nanpa mute

[hot trout]

ok, I added !important because that's the easiest to do 😛

If it doesn't work for you, it's likely the cache

[grand marten]

ni nanpa tu li pona tawa mi tan ni → · lipu [CSS] taso li ken toki e ni → nasin sitelen li lon seme · ni la ale la nasin sitelen o lon ona a · ni la o pana e poki kin

[hot trout]

taso ni li pali

[grand marten]

taso pali li wile lon ale · ijo li ken ala pana e nasin sin kepeken ala lipu

[split grail]

putting this here
https://jpco.io/toki/linluwi.html

if someone wants to add it do it

it's just because I found something cool and don't have my laptop at hand

[split grail]

wawa

for the supported characters can it be breaked into the lines

All pu glyphs,
several ku glyphs
(capitalised too)
also the license to have a link

[hot trout]

Makes sense, but I'll do this in one swoop once I added everything

[hot trout]

do we have a "clear" template that makes sure content after a floating box comes underneat that box?

[upbeat summit]

we probably should, shouldn't we

I couldn't find one when last i checked

[hot trout]

because that's going to be an issue the more fonts I do with these templates on one page 😄

[upbeat summit]

created

also i've bumped up the SP font size—now the sitelen Lasina on :hover or :active looks bad and is more likely to bug out, though, and when i try scaling it back down it keeps transitioning smoothly between the sizes which is even worse

tbh i'm wondering about making it only convert to Lasina on :active and otherwise using a tooltip instead?

——or we could do something funky with ::after to create a duplicate element that won't break the flow

[upbeat summit]

well there is undoubtedly still jank but i tried, should prevent reflow on hover

maybe i'll think of a better way to do this in the morning but.

…the main issue is that it doesn't interpret any inserted wikitext the way i'm doing it

maybe the template should just contain a duplicate, unfonted element, which only appears on :hover or :active with the new out-of-flow CSS treatment, and which we set to have screen readers ignore, however you do that

cannot implement it right now though

gotta lape

[split grail]

nasa

[hot trout]

len len len

[split grail]

maybe the sitelen pona is too big now

just a bit

[upbeat summit]

maybe, but, like, nested glyphs

sitelen seli kiwen especially has a lot of ink bleed that makes them hard to read at small sizes, i think

[split grail]

hm alright

47 words remain..

https://tenor.com/view/yippee-happy-celebration-joy-confetti-gif-25557730

[upbeat summit]

How do we still not have pona

[split grail]

next up is to call on dictionary people to talk and talk and talk about it

because pona is... complicated

maybe

I think

it's a lot

[upbeat summit]

actually i find it quite simple

[split grail]

gjdsflksdf

[upbeat summit]

but like simple in a good way

[split grail]

it has a lot of definitions

like a lot a lot

and I'm not the best dictionary person..... lexicographer, to do that

[upbeat summit]

I think a lot of the ku ones must be backtranslations of concepts that respondents decided to reduce to pona

and not actually necessarily things that pona would be recognized as out of context

[split grail]

hm

I'll create the template, and you're all free to fill it in

[upbeat summit]

i wonder if we should have a {{pu def}} equivalent for the ku data

[split grail]

I don't know

maybe it would be good

just heads up, if you do make it, please also have an option to compact it and open it when you want it, for cases like pona

[upbeat summit]

yeah

i'm wondering if it should be collapsed by default

for the aforesaid considerations

[split grail]

these are the longest ones btw

also I created the article have a go at it

[upbeat summit]

on it

[split grail]

small nitpick: for references, notes, citation neededs, etc., they go after punctuation

this is a good claim.[1]
this is a badly formatted claim[2].

[hot trout]

hehehehehe

[split grail]

wawa

I've seen it, it's very cool

[upbeat summit]

You're spoiling us

these are too cool

[hot trout]

thanks!

Hmmm edge case:
#pana message
is this a comic or not?

[upbeat summit]

how is this

[split grail]

it is pona

I like it

[split grail]

hmm, I don't think so

but a book with images

because it doesn't follow the usual language of comics

like panels, dialog bubbles and the like

[upbeat summit]

what dœs that word mean

[split grail]

idk

[upbeat summit]

someone should really write a webpage about that

[split grail]

selo li ike tawa mi

aaa

[upbeat summit]

nasa

it's not rgba-ing for you?

[split grail]

is it not what

[upbeat summit]

should be fixed now if you can clear your cache

which i am having issues with

okay it finally refreshed it for me

[split grail]

selo li awen lon

[upbeat summit]

okay, i reimplemented the SP tooltips in wikitext/CSS

[upbeat summit]

there should now be a proper link in this tooltip, for instance

[upbeat summit]

{{ku data}} now exists

i decided to hide translations below ³ by default, based on the cutoff for the nimi ku suli

[upbeat summit]

#sona-kulupu-tpt message

[upbeat summit]

==={{tp|ku}}===
For {{ku|en}}, respondents in {{tp|[[ma pona pi toki pona]]}} translated these English words as {{tp|{{subst:PAGENAME}}}}:
{{ku data}}

[upbeat summit]

I think i got at least everything that already has a ==Semantic space== section

[split grail]

(same argument, do we do the same for toki pona?)

or maybe, just a note saying, 'most people say it with lowercase'

[split grail]

is there an automated way to change a sentence across the entire wiki..

[grand marten]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser

ma [Wikipedia] la ona li wile e ken tan lawa · taso ma ni la ala

[split grail]

wawa

[split grail]

rotated :) is cursed

[split grail]

not sure where to go ask this
kala Asi said that the sitelen pona etymologies where given by ilo Eko, and I probably have to find that, because I want to know how they did it
because in my head, I thought that these were crossed arms like this

there are some other weird things too

because on Linku, it often says 'possibly', 'may be from', very weasely
are these just pulled from thin air

[upbeat summit]

well Toki Pona is the official English term by jan Sonj of though

whereas other anglicized terms like "sitelenponization" seem to be chiefly sentence-case

[hot trout]

... spetymology

[rain ice]

#5242 📣 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bzt85HaYTPk8mWfn5tcQiSezvlOVuqnst1tVTcugju4/edit

[random sable]

We're replacing @rain ice with @verbal coral soon! Use /post [note name] instead of ... [note name] to publicly display a note, or use /peek [note name] to view it in a message only you can see. For more information, see /peek kose kata.

[hot trout]

crossed swords is a common symbol in heraldy, I believe?

[hot trout]

basically... yes, from thing air

[split grail]

ah

[hot trout]

ilo Eki sat down, had a look at the glyphs and tried to come up with the most likely explanation of where the glyph came from

[split grail]

great

[split grail]

should I include this on the wiki

{{cite etym sp}}

[split grail]

are "kijetesantakalu" and "tonsi" enough for lipu pona

[upbeat summit]

if they meet the criteria listed

[upbeat summit]

Should probably be phrased like, "is conjectured to be derived from…" then

[split grail]

that is what I want to know, to you (all) do they meet that

[upbeat summit]

checking them now

oof

there's a [citation needed] on the expanded Musteloidea-superfamily definition for kijetesantakalu

where does that come from?

[split grail]

I think I added that

I just want to know when that started

[upbeat summit]

okay so the original forum post includes

(I may decide to include the red panda under kijetesantakalu, but I stillhaven't decided that detail yet.)

and then jan Sonja made the earliest mention of Musteloidea on the server as a way of resurfacing that detail

#toki-ale message

here is a variant listed in #nimi-ku-ale: #nimi-ku-ale message

which is the only message that contains all the animal words in the cite-needed-tagged quote

[split grail]

no access

[upbeat summit]

and also badger

kijetesantakalu
NOUN procyonid (raccoon, kinkajou, ringtail, etc.), musteloidea (raccoon, weasel, otter, badger, skunk, red panda, etc.)

so the quoted version comes from off-server

i've Googled for an exact match and there are surprisingly few results

this is one of the earliest matches https://old.reddit.com/r/tokipona/comments/rqnvaz/this_is_a_joke_an_interesting_title

THIS IS A JOKE An interesting title sona nasa

THIS IS A JOKE
tokiponists: NooOooOOO we can't have words for three and four because then it will be too complex

also tokiponists: INTERACTING WITH TOKI PONA: THE LANGUAGE OF GOOD
INTERACTING WITH THE TOKI PONA DICTIONARY
ANY ANIMAL FROM THE MUSTELOIDEA SUPERFAMILY INCLUDING RACCOONS, WEASELS, OTTERS, SKUNKS, AND RED PANDAS
THIS IS A JOKE

at this point i'm pretty sure it was just written for Linku and spread a bit from there

[split grail]

gsdjfs

[upbeat summit]

so i would replace the quote with original phrasing and a description of the history behind the expansion

[split grail]

that would be good

[upbeat summit]

i can try to do that

let me check the rest of the article first

i think it's good otherwise

[upbeat summit]

lipuponaing

lipuponæd

[split grail]

pls don't put links inside links aa

[upbeat summit]

eeg

template data gives |server={{tp|[[ma pona pi toki pona]]}} as an example

should be edited if that's unwanted

[split grail]

it should be edited

[upbeat summit]

brb to check [[tonsi]] if no one else beats me to it

[upbeat summit]

okay so

according to Wiktionary, the base sense of 同志 tóngzhì is essentially just "kindred spirit"

i'm not sure how intertwined the word is with the sense of political (esp. communist) fellowship but i'm having enough trouble keeping it in the sentence that i wonder whether it makes sense to include

[upbeat summit]

this article also has a [citation needed]

i think i can cite it though

okay done

[upbeat summit]

tables need to stop being the solution to every awkwardly formatted section

i'm in wikitext hell

enough rowspans and colspans to make a draft horse dizzy

[upbeat summit]

agh almost done

[upbeat summit]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sitelen_pona#Alternative_glyphs

[grand marten]

mi poki pi toki [pona] e nimi lipu lon lipu open kepeken ilo [Display Title]

[split grail]

wawa

[split grail]

does sona pona have a logo

that would be cool I think

either something in the style of pona.la or maybe like lipu Wikipesija

sitelen sitelen is very good for logod

woe! more headache for yee

[grand marten]

mi wile sitelen e soweli pi len lawa sona

taso mi ni ala lon tenpo suli a

tenpo weka la ijo li pali e sitelen ni → nimi wan li sitelen [pona] · nimi wan li sitelen [suwi]

[upbeat summit]

Miraheze's Weekly "None Of The Wikimedia Commons Images Work" Event

[split grail]

soweli seme

[grand marten]

[split grail]

omg......................

that would be so cute

[upbeat summit]

Been trying to make some of the formerly hatnote-based templates more noticeable so that, well 1. they get read, 2. it's easy to tell whether an article is eligible for lipu pona status just by skimming

[upbeat summit]

a i didn't realize at first—that's why some of the categories in the list at the bottom of an article have "Category:" in them now
is there any way to fix that

[grand marten]

a pakala

ken la ken ala!

[upbeat summit]

At least this is fixed

Should [[sitelen pona#Radicals]] be moved to its own article? I feel that it isn't very well-known, nor a universally accepted analysis among those who know of it, nor is it virtually ever used to sort characters in practice. It also kinda breaks the flow of the article now that it's fleshed out

yeah mi gonna

By now i think almost all of the issues with that article have been addressed

Only remaining pain point is the incomplete list of alt glyphs

Oof, and this [citation needed] in the same section:

It has been suggested elsewhere to use other religious symbols, with the possible downside of being less legible.

as alt sewi glyphs

[upbeat summit]

Should we introduce categories like "Words with sitelen pona"/"sitelen glyphs"

Then the main SP article could just say to view that category for a full list of words with glyphs, without having to be exhaustive by including a ton of unused words

We could also use them for articles on people with custom name glyphs :3

[upbeat summit]

(doned)

(didded)

[upbeat summit]

oops

when you mark an edit as minor, keep adding more and more, and only notice it's still checked after you've submitted it

when you [citation needed] something and immediately after submitting remember where the claim comes from

[upbeat summit]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_sitelen_kalama#Applications

I can't tell if i'm a genius or an evil genius for this

like, it's not not what ruby text is for,,

it indicates the pronunciation of the adjacent larger glyph,,

[upbeat summit]

This uncited claim is the only remaining issue with [[sitelen pona]] before we can reinstate its lipu pona status

Anyone know where it comes from

[upbeat summit]

nvm founned a poll

get lipuponæd sin

[hot trout]

hm but it's wrong

[split grail]

can we have like a 'this list is imcomplete! you can help us by adding to it' template

also, I think that this is a bit weird, {{tp}} should just work like {{tok}} with italics, right? why doesn't ''{{tp}}'' give non-Italic text

[grand marten]

ona li kepeken poki pi nasin ante · sama ni → <i>toki</i> · sitelen sina li ken ala weka e ona

[split grail]

aaa

taso mi wile weka

that's how italics work in English

[grand marten]

n

mi ken e ni (li pakala e seme)

[split grail]

I can [do] this and break [something???]

[grand marten]

"i made this possible (and probably broke something i'm unaware of)"

[hot trout]

Hm, and at the same time maybe a template for another list status, like
"this list is complete and believed not to change"
and
"this list should already be complete unless something changed since {{{date}}}"
?

[split grail]

I mean

where does that show up

I need context before saying anything

[hot trout]

Hm, lists regarding pu are pretty set in stone, but I haven't checked if we have something beyond https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:Jan_Ke_Tami/pu_pages_in_other_languages
For "complete unless updates" the font list, once it's completed?

[split grail]

I don't know

the font list is definitely not

because there's always something more to addd

the pu pages, I mean

I don't think the template is that necessary

[hot trout]

alr
was just a thought
The "incomplete list" template sounds useful, though

[split grail]

in the article "Communities" would it be better to sort it first by the app? because there are some communities that blend over, like they're not toki pona taso or they speak multiple languages, etc, etc

so sort by app first then maybe language

# Facebook
## English speaking
## toki pona taso
## Other languages
# Discord
...

also this is unrelated shouldn't this title be capitalised?
it is an English word, why not 'Gendern't'?
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/gendern't

unrelated unrelated, I can't believe that the wiki doesn't have a page on itself

or even pona.la

[dark tree]

[[mu]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/mu

[hot trout]

a!

[split grail]

a!!!

wawa!!

[[location word]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/location_word

[split grail]

oh

oh nvm

[[location]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/location

[split grail]

woo

jan nanpa o sina wawa

[grand marten]

* SINA KEN KAMA [[jan]] [[suli]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/jan
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/suli

[split grail]

what should I do with this page
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:SnpoSuwan/Videos_by_non-Tokiponists

[grand marten]

lili la ona li sama ni https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Where_is_Toki_Pona_used%3F

[dark tree]

would this make for a good article? a list of open source projects? #wile-kulupu message

i know there's dozens

[upbeat summit]

You can do {{Needs work|2=list}}

[upbeat summit]

yeah it does it's called [[Main Page]],,,,

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Main_Page

[upbeat summit]

WHOA

it was implemented*!!*

yessss

lol i'm glad i did that because i would've been spoiled on it if i'd read a single message further, what a rush

Does {{cite web}} work

damn

because I made [[Template:cite web]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:cite_web

[dark tree]

it doesn't because i got lazy ^^;

the code is here #wile-kulupu message

if you remind me in a couple days i can replace like 20 characters and then nag mun again

or anyone else feel free to

[upbeat summit]

It would also be useful to let the match end at a pipe character | so that {{tp|ijo}} only links to Template:tp

[dark tree]

ok 👀 regices aren't my strong suit so hopefully that's as easy as i'm expecting

hmm this would also fire every time someone posts a yag script

which admittedly doesn't happen that often

[upbeat summit]

Is there any way to just save the first capture group within the match ($1) to a variable, instead of taking the whole match and cutting off the brackets (which should already be outside of the capture group)

I am not familiar with toki ilo Yag or how it handles Regice

[upbeat summit]

@split grail you could use this inline for your non-tokiponist videos page

or maybe it would be useful to make a {{cite YouTube}} version

[dark tree]

notes to me for later

1. use reFindAllSubmatches, it's the only regex command that returns capture groups instead of the whole match
2. it returns an array. the first item is the whole match, the second is the capture group

3. use split and split on |

[split grail]

indeed

[split grail]

that is what I'm trying to do yeah

[[User:SnpoSuwan/Where is Toki Pona used? but divided up]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:SnpoSuwan%2FWhere_is_Toki_Pona_used%3F_but_divided_up

[split grail]

lipu Wikipesija when

can you also make it

English Wikipedia
like Wiktionary

[split grail]

i mean like...........................................................

an actual article, describing itself and stuff

[split grail]

I know that this is sugar but it looks so much like sand or glass

thank you for adding images btw

[upbeat summit]

if anyone has suggestions for better images i am amenable to considering them

[upbeat summit]

i didn't want to overcomplicate it but okay
also iirc that Wikipedia isn't actually bold, it's a self-link to the Wiktionary entry for Wikipedia. unless we end up with a sona pona article on Wikipedia i think we're good without

[split grail]

ahh

then just add it as English Wikipedia without bold?

ale li pona

[upbeat summit]

what would it cover

[split grail]

maybe it could be an article about pona.la and it's smaller sites

pona.la is a ...

# kulupu.pona.la
# nimi.pona.la
# seka.pona.la
# sona.pona.la
# suno.pona.la
# utala.pona.la

[upbeat summit]

but did you have anything in mind for sona. specifically

[split grail]

what is its purpose, history, who maintains it

[upbeat summit]

i guess that's fair

substitute for a separate about page

[split grail]

indeed

[upbeat summit]

#1078420779231875203 message this is the first message in the sona pona (sona.pona.la) thread #1078420779231875203

for future reference

@grand marten do you have any information on these things that you think would be important to include

[grand marten]

nnnnn · lipu-sona.pona.la li lon · kin mi la ijo pona.la o lon lipu mute · ona li kulupu nimi taso li kulupu lon ala

[split grail]

bug: kalamARR is nimi ku lili

[split grail]

nn

lipu li kama suli la ona o mute

[upbeat summit]

fixing

does it work now

[split grail]

yeah

[upbeat summit]

pona

[upbeat summit]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sona_pona

i'm not sure what message to use as a citation for the addition of the

never mind i forgot about #pana message

[split grail]

on some articles for particles, there's the external links below with some resources, should there be a little section for historical resources? those which served a purpose but now are obsolete? like jan Pije's and jan Misali's original lessons

[upbeat summit]

For completion's sake, probably

[split grail]

seems good

[upbeat summit]

There should probably be a template demarcating them though

like these are links to historic resources mu mu mu

[split grail]

dumping more work for you <3

[upbeat summit]

be careful mu mu mu

[split grail]

sorry sjdlfksdf

[split grail]

for Pije, there's actually three stages

• original/old lessons for pre-pu toki pona (2000s)
• the updated lessons for pu (2010s)
• and updated again, currently in Wikibooks (2020s)

[upbeat summit]

i'm thinking it should be collapsible

[split grail]

yes pls

[upbeat summit]

mi ken

[split grail]

it could just be a hatnote

those were fine too

[upbeat summit]

i think it makes sense for something with the collapsible toggle to be the funny box

[split grail]

suli

[hot trout]

hang on...

the 2003 lessons, those are something different, right?

[split grail]

those are Old toki pona

https://web.archive.org/web/20090823012007/http://bknight0.myweb.uga.edu/toki/about/lesson/tp1.html

[hot trout]

Well yes
but I'm actually wondering if those are Sonja's old lessons

from 2002-ish

Because jan Pije's course looks like this in 2014: https://web.archive.org/web/20140728153756/http://tokipona.net/tp/janpije/lesson/lesson0.html

[split grail]

they are under bknight0.myweb.uga.edu, I don't know

[split grail]

thank youu, I was trying to find that

[hot trout]

jan Pije copied some older stuff like the old dictionary, also from 2002

[split grail]

ah

[upbeat summit]

[[Template:Historical]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:Historical

[hot trout]

Yeah, found it!

https://web.archive.org/web/20090819063425/http://bknight0.myweb.uga.edu/toki/about/about.html

[split grail]

ahhh

also wawa, original word list

[upbeat summit]

Wow this works surprisingly well

You can put entire section headings in a collapsible, and if you use the table of contents to jump to them, it just, opens the collapsible so you aren't jumping to nowhere

same with jump up links in references sections

MediaWiki is so cool

[hot trout]

I should add collapsible stuff to the font template

[upbeat summit]

the which

[hot trout]

[[Template:font]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:font

[split grail]

so then this?

[upbeat summit]

ah

[split grail]

it is so wild reading '2015' and '7 years ago' together

[hot trout]

Why does Pije's stuff start at lesson 3 and jMisali's stuff at Day 2?

[split grail]

because he does

1. intro
2. pronunciation
3. grammar

while Misali joined the first two

I'm sorting by date btw

[upbeat summit]

ack

that source code for the font infobox is odd

you can remove the outer <includeonly /> and then have the example values use <noinclude /> so you aren't invoking a copy of the template within itself

[hot trout]

uh

that sounds incorrect

[split grail]

it is a bit weird for it to be collapsable but it's good

[upbeat summit]

progressive disclosure

you wanna see the dated stuff (which this wiki is specifically meant to supersede) then you gotta acknowledge the fact

[hot trout]

I already have noinclude, so removing the includeonly gives me this:

[upbeat summit]

hrm

[grand marten]

ni o ilo ala ilo · #1078420779231875203 message

[upbeat summit]

i think it makes sense to keep the nonstandard and joke stuff visible in case you're trying to make sense of something weird someone else used, and you won't know where to look if that's all hidden

whereas by definition, historical usage refers to ways that no one speaks anymore

[split grail]

nn

mi sona ala

mi la ilo poki ala

[upbeat summit]

agh

we completely forgot

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Toki_Pona_pronunciations_by_jan_Lakuse

these

where do we put them

[split grail]

in the nimi template

np

alongside audio (also check is kala Asi's audio files are compatible woth the licence), I want to request another thing!! links to other dictionaries, that would be good I think

[grand marten]

kalama li ken lon poka pi nimi open sama ma [Wikipedia]

[upbeat summit]

i also added IPA to it

you can set custom values

but i made it do this by default:

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/yupekosi

[grand marten]

ni li seme tawa sinjale

[hot trout]

sitelen Ijo li lon tan seme

[grand marten]

tan sitelen [suwi]

[hot trout]

aaaa

sona

[upbeat summit]

just added a feature that detects if the word has a j and shows a small pronunciation note, see [[jan]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/jan

[upbeat summit]

cool right

[split grail]

nnn

the lessons I don't like

[upbeat summit]

yeah it would probably be good to handle it with a template but i don't know about putting it there

[grand marten]

nanpa taso li ike tawa sina anu seme

[split grail]

^

[upbeat summit]

i guess it's like

nearly all the information in that infobox feels essential to the word itself in some way

whereas, here are the section numbers for where this word is discussed in every notable course, is less so

and ideally the rest of article itself can substitute for the information in all of those lessons

so it makes sense to me to keep the links to external resources at the bottom

[split grail]

and that's why this is important

sona pona and dictionaries are different

[upbeat summit]

Toki Pona - jan Lakuse - kijetesantakalu.ogg is CC 4.0, i'm going to assume that applies for all of them

i don't think it's an issue regardless though

[[Project:Copyrights]] says

Media contained within a page might be under a different license from the page itself; to make sure, visit the file pages by clicking/tapping on them.

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Project:Copyrights

[upbeat summit]

btw all the templates i've made for this wiki are queer-coded (im queer and i coded them)

[split grail]

@golden rock your audios on Linku under what license btw

[golden rock]

mmmm dangit i never marked any of them as anything

whats the easiest way for me to do that

[split grail]

you say 'I release them under CC whatever'

like on nimi Linku

and that's that

[grand marten]

ona li lon ma [GitHub] la o pana e lipu [LICENSE] lon poki ona

anu o toki taso

[split grail]

o

[golden rock]

is by-sa 3.0 or 4.0 or both more convenient

[split grail]

ni ^^^^^^^

both work

I don't even know the difference between them actually

[grand marten]

nanpa li suli ala tawa kulupu [Wikipedia] la tawa mi kin

(ona li 4.0 e nanpa li toki ala e 3.0)

kin kalama en lipu li ken ken ante

[golden rock]

@split grail i added CC-BY-SA-3.0 OR CC-BY-SA-4.0 to my audio

should be pushed

[split grail]

alright

yaysies

now just to add them to Commons

which is the not fun part

or I haven't found an easier way to do it

[grand marten]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Pattypan

taso ona li nasa

[split grail]

nn

[upbeat summit]

i am a fucking mad scientist

[[Template:syllabify]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:syllabify

[upbeat summit]

i built this out of nothing but {{#replace}} parser functions

the idea just occurred to me out of nowhere

and that lets me check if a word is multisyllabic which means monosyllables don't get the stress marker anymore

i'm high on life

i feel like i just invented a neural network by linking paperclips together

but like in a good way

this counts as advanced mathematics right

[split grail]

can we have like a little 🔊 button instead of (listen)

[split grail]

o lukin
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Talk:International_Phonetic_Alphabet

and o lukin talk pages in general

[hot trout]

I do
But I don't have a look at the titles, so it looked like a question for clarification 😄

[split grail]

gdjlfks

can someone update the font in {{UCSUR}}

it's still linja lipamanka

[hot trout]

You mean [[Template:UCSUR chart sitelen pona]]?

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:UCSUR_chart_sitelen_pona

[split grail]

yeah

also thank you

󱥵

can we copy over this template
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Unichar

but UCSUR ✨

[noble gulch]

Hi, not sure if it's on my end or not, but I'm getting 502 Bad Gateway intermittently when I load any page on the sona.pona.la domain.

[split grail]

I get it sometimes

just keep refreshing

o tuki tiki e lipu 🥺
poki {{tp}} en poki {{sp}} pi tuki tiki o lon

poki {{tuki tiki}} en poki {{titi pula}} o lon

[grand marten]

ni nanpa wan li wile e nimi lili [ISO] · tenpo lon la poki {{tp}} li lon lipu pi toki [tiki] tan ni → ilo li sona kalama e toki [pona] la ona o kalama e toki [tiki] kepeken nasin sama

[split grail]

nn ni li lon

[hot trout]

Exp
and
🤔

Coll
aps
e

Hm, even if I were to fix it... long titles get hidden behind it

[split grail]

kijetesantakalu li len

[split grail]

why is it looong

also we need an option to disable pronunciation

SJGDLKSDFJSD

[split grail]

bug?
a, lukin and sin are marked as synonyms

[split grail]

ike

ilo li pakala tawa mi

editors, what do you think of this (hi Peton too)

I do think that pointing it out is important

so that, when teaching or learning by yourself, you can see the mistake of others and not to it again

someone could do [[li is not is]] on the server and then it's gonna show up

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/li_is_not_is

[split grail]

shut up

[noble gulch]

Maybe a separate specific "learner misconceptions" article? I'm not sure.

[grand marten]

a mi kin · la mi kepeken ona majuna

[noble gulch]

My thinking here is that the article should be a description of the particle, and that it's for some other place to specifically target learners' mistakes, as opposed to putting the learners' mistakes in the article. But I could be convinced otherwise.

[noble gulch]

One could also do [[li]] is not is and the li article will show up.

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/li

[grand marten]

tu li ken :p · wile la mi ken alasa pali e lipu ni → ona li pana e toki pi nasin pakala tan lipu ante ale · toki li kama ante lon lipu ante la lipu sin ni li kama ante kin

[noble gulch]

a sona

la lipu ale o toki e "pakala ken" kepeken nasin sama. lipu ante li kama e pakala ken ale li wan e ona kepeken wawa ilo.

ni li ken nasin pona, taso mi wawa ala lon nasin pi ilo Mediawiki la mi sona ala pali e ni.

[grand marten]

{{#dpl:
|category=Content words
|include=#Etymology
}}

li kama e ni

nimi poki li toki [pona] la poki kiki li wile

<dpl>
category=Content words
include=#{{tp|pu}}
</dpl>

[noble gulch]

aaaa

wawa a

ni la #Misconceptions o lon lipu ale.

[noble gulch]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Beginner_Mistakes

pana

ken suli la nimi "Beginner Mistakes" li pona ala.

kin la pakala li lon nasin DPL.

[split grail]

nn

[grand marten]

n

[noble gulch]

ni li ken anu seme

[grand marten]

seme la ni li pona ala

<dpl>
category=Particles|Content words
includematch=/./
include=#Misconceptions
</dpl>

[split grail]

should it be everywhere everywhere

like all articles need it

[noble gulch]

a mi sona ala e nasin Disjunction pi ilo Category. wawa.

[noble gulch]

This is the problem with the autoaggregator.

[split grail]

then aggregate without the auto

[noble gulch]

[grand marten]

ilo o ken pana ala e lipu pi poki ala

[noble gulch]

pilin mi la sina toki lon, taso mi sona ala e nasin ni.

[split grail]

doing it manually idk
there's also the function of transclusion on Wikipedia maybe

[noble gulch]

Yeah I'm trying to figure out how to transclude it well.

[split grail]

how does that work, I will leave it as an exercise to the programmer

[noble gulch]

HAhahahhaha

That's me innit

[split grail]

indeed

[noble gulch]

ni li pana e lipu ale. lipu li jo ala e kipisi Misconceptions la ona li awen kama tan toki ilo ni.

[split grail]

sina ale o nanpa wawa

[noble gulch]

a a a a

(I assume that this could be made turing complete...)

((Like you click through the computation somehow))

If there is no chapter with the specified heading the output will be empty.

nnn

[grand marten]

mi pona e

includematch = /./
format = ,,,
secseparators = =={{tp|[[%PAGE%]]}}==\n

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/%25PAGE%25

[noble gulch]

wawa

[noble gulch]

a a a a

[grand marten]

ni la mi o pona e lukin lipu

nimi o Misconceptions anu sama anu seme

[noble gulch]

lon

lukin li pona wawa

[split grail]

sina ale li wawa

[dark tree]

hmm, should ilo Supanpo just look for one of [[these statements] on a standalone line?

so it works like the ... note command

that would prevent you from doing cool things like putting [[an article] in the middle of a sentence

but maybe it would be less annoying

[noble gulch]

Maybe it should check whether there actually is an article before linking? That way you wouldn't [[get things like this]].

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/get_things_like_this

[noble gulch]

I guess that isn't really a problem in the end

I'd say leave it the way it is for a few weeks to give us all a chance to get used to it: if it's actually useful then people will use it.

[mighty seal]

[[soweli]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/soweli

[split grail]

^ calling to update that article

because I don't know what is a soweli

[grand marten]

sona mi la ona li ken ala lukin e ilo ante

[noble gulch]

sona a.

[hot trout]

Sure, no problem
cracks knuckles
let me add in unsupported, uncited opinions of what people think soweli is and then let people who actually have stuff to back themselves up clean up after me

[split grail]

gjsldkfjsd

that is exactly what I want

^^^^^^^^^^^ actual great advice

just write, and people (or yourself) will get back to it

[noble gulch]

nasin a

[upbeat summit]

Okay i think i'm done futzing with the faux tooltip CSS for now

[upbeat summit]

Use data-collapsetext="−" data-expandtext="+"

[upbeat summit]

I moved the 240px-width setter from the table itself to the header cell because CSS shenanigans (which, in this case, i don't think box-sizing would solve). Now the book and era field thinks it has all the space in the world. I need to figure out the math behind the ideal table width so i can set that too

[split grail]

this image is in the comments for the article, should it be used
File:Mammal Diversity 2011.png

[hot trout]

aaa pona

[split grail]

(it is very funny to me that Brezhnev and Nixon are simply hanging out in between the animals)

[upbeat summit]

mi soweli · toki, [[jan Sonja]] o

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/jan_Sonja

[upbeat summit]

it would probably be useful to redirect all of those phrases to [[word#Misconceptions]]

[split grail]

o ni

👹

[dark tree]

waso soweli soweli
soweli akesi akesi
soweli akesi akesi
waso waso soweli
kala akesi soweli
akesi linja soweli

fewer than half of these are soweli

[upbeat summit]

jan li akesi tan seme

[dark tree]

jan li seme

a ona li toki la jan

ken

[upbeat summit]

lon linja nanpa tu tan sewi, lon insa

[grand marten]

🦓 li linja taso tan seme

[dark tree]

mi lukin e ona la mi lukin e linja

sina wile la sina ken kepeken nimi mute tawa linja soweli

mi kepeken nimi wan taso

[grand marten]

la sina len lawa

[split grail]

akesi lawa pi ma Mewika pi ma Sesesele 😭

[noble gulch]

a a a a

akesi anu seme

[dark tree]

nnnnnnn kennnn taso ni li nasa
suli la
sina lukin e sitelen ni la sina lukin e len lawa

sina ken toki e ni:
👈 sitelen ni li toki e len lawa

[upbeat summit]

sina nimi akesi e lawa tan ni · ona li ike · la, toki ni li ike tawa akesi suwi :(

Can we have an article on reduplication

like lili lili for "really small" vs. "a little small"

[noble gulch]

Why not. I think that's a phenomenon that's more a theoretical possibility than in current use, but it's not for that that it shouldn't have an article. I can't think of any examples of it in use, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

[dark tree]

i use lili lili to mean kind of small

an article would be good for that, it could explain why "mute mute" is more common than "lili lili"

i also say wawawawawa, which is arguably reduplication

[mighty seal]

ku captured cases of lili lili vs lili mute

[upbeat summit]

before i do that

are we agreed on moving [[Beginner mistakes]] to Common misconceptions

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Beginner_mistakes

[upbeat summit]

or maybe just Misconceptions

[split grail]

move

just 'misconceptions' may be a bit weird I think, but the intro paragraph may give away what it means

[grand marten]

n taso pilin pakala li ken lon nimi ala li ken lon lili pi ken toki li ken lon owe li ken lon ijo ante

[noble gulch]

lon

[split grail]

would it be funny to have somewhere for phrases like 'poki loje lon sinpin li poki tawa' and 'suwi telo wawa kepeken namako en kule ijo kasi' and 'mi kute e calamar musik' and the like eheheh

[hot trout]

redirect to "non-tokiponers making videos about the tokipono"

[split grail]

true

I'm moving that article to mainspace

if someone someday makes a 'Videos' section, then merge

[upbeat summit]

Maybe we should have a template {{Collate|to=Misconceptions}} to better mark sections for transcludey articles like these

[split grail]

collate?

[upbeat summit]

agh mi sama

[upbeat summit]

you know like. collating papers or something

[mighty seal]

pakala nanpa mute la lupa ike

[upbeat summit]

n Ginx

[split grail]

kulupu Miwawisi li pakala

kulupu Miwawisi.. kulupu Menasewi........ nnn

[split grail]

nasin ike

[split grail]

also I do not

ah

[upbeat summit]

introjects a wiki farm

actually that sounds like a horrible idea 😊

[split grail]

so many fancy words today

[upbeat summit]

A smidgeon of cromulence incognoscible :3

[split grail]

silly :3

[upbeat summit]

frivolity

it's fancy because Greek and Latin. there is nothing about society to unpack here probably

[upbeat summit]

Miraheze don't break files on external repositories for 2 seconds challenge

[noble gulch]

So do sitelen sitelen and sitelen pona have to be added manually to the word templates or have they failed this challenge?

[split grail]

ku bug

[upbeat summit]

See the message above, they're on Wikimedia Commons, for some reason Miraheze has been struggling to connect to that consistently

maybe someone should ask staff about that

[upbeat summit]

earlier i updated the {{abbr}} template and CSS (used by {{ku frequency index}} (used by {{ku data}})) and got this exact result before my cache updated

i don't suppose you can clear your phone's browser cache 😔

but it should resolve with time

i did experiment with setting the tooltip to display:none; by default in-template, but then the style attribute for a specific element overrides CSS that targets the entire class, so the tooltip just never appears

[noble gulch]

sina pona tan pali sina, kulupu Menasewi o.

[split grail]

@noble gulch o lukin e lipu mi [[User:SnpoSuwan/Word articles]]
ona li poki e lipu

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:SnpoSuwan%2FWord_articles

[upbeat summit]

semea

thank you

okay i guess i'm gonna try to start on [[Philosophy]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Philosophy

[upbeat summit]

but be warned

this philosophical stuff is extremely far removed from my wheelhouse. while I, conditioned to think of everything dualistically, might think of this as being a separate wheelhouse, my wheelhouse being a subject and this wheelhouse being an object, this is only an illusion, and they are in fact the same wheelhouse, as are all wheelhouses, and everything which is not a wheelhouse. in The IS Language, instead of distinguishing between “in my wheelhouse” and “outside my wheelhouse”, one is encouraged to be conscious of the fact that they are the same thing by... distinguishing between “in my wheelhouse” and “esuohleehw ym ni”.

[split grail]

@toki soners o kama

[upbeat summit]

holy shit i never realized the depth of the fraction simplification analogy before

ale li nanpa

[split grail]

I cry

[upbeat summit]

noo

[upbeat summit]

i can't believe jan Sonja didn't hit on the phrase "in simplest terms"

[split grail]

I totally know what that is

[upbeat summit]

from lipu pu pg. 10

Toki Pona's semantic reduction is like the reducing a fraction

4/8 simplifies to 1/2

[split grail]

i do not have pu

[upbeat summit]

and i am suddenly going wild writing what is probably psuedomathematical nonsense that i will have to pare back down

[split grail]

mi kalamARR

[upbeat summit]

Toki Pona's concept of simplification, "'''semantic reduction'''", is likened to fractional reduction, simplifying <math display="inline">\frac{4}{8}</math> to <math display="inline">\frac{1}{2}</math>. Speakers are encouraged to put concepts {{w|Irreducible fraction|in simplest terms}} to find their core meaning and make them easier to work with.<ref>{{cite pu|10}}</ref> Concepts do not always reduce to a word or short phrase, as [[content word]]s often need to be linked with basic operators, [[particle]]s, to indicate the relationship between them. In this way, many [[content word]]s denote irreducible concepts, similar to {{w|fundamental unit}}s or {{w|prime number}}s. This simplification can provide new insights and even expose contradictions, such as attempting to translate "bad friend" as {{tp|[[jan]] <del>[[pona]] [[ike]]</del>}} ("<del>bad good</del> person").<ref name="pu 12" /> This is similar to {{w|division by zero}}, showing that semantics are {{w|Closure (mathematics)|not closed under all operations}}.

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/content_word
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/particle
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/content_word
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/jan
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/pona
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/ike

[upbeat summit]

ramblings of a nonsense

[split grail]

aa

[upbeat summit]

i think this has absolutely nothing to do with Toki Pona philosophy

but it's cool right

[split grail]

{{w|Irreducible fraction|in simplest terms}}
maybe go ahead and explain further

[upbeat summit]

i need someone to make a conlang entirely out of this fraction simplification metaphor now

[split grail]

in the simplest terms, in the analogy akin to an {{w|irreducible fraction}}

indeed

toki pi nanpa lili

[upbeat summit]

toki pi nanpa

la sina li nanpa

specifically, 6

[split grail]

mi li 6

[upbeat summit]

b > 6

algebrof…

[split grail]

QED

how should I format this as a poll

[split grail]

@upbeat summit how can one add multiple ways to use the same input on a message, like message-type and message type work the same 🥺

[upbeat summit]

I just use

hold on this looks horrible without syntax highlighting

{{{2|{{{1}}}}}}

that is,

{{{2|{{{1}}}}}}

it's the same as the standard {{{2|the second parameter will fallback onto this text if it is not set}}}

except you're using another parameter inside

so you can set either one

[split grail]

so like

if paramter 2 then return parameter 1

[hot trout]

No, it's
if parameter 2 is false (either false by boolean or false by being empty), return parameter 1

[split grail]

ah

even more confused

[upbeat summit]

i don't think it counts false by boolean

the boolean parser functions just return an empty string if false

but if you put |2=false or |2=no it will happily spit out "false" or "no"

[upbeat summit]

The logic is

if $2 == ""
  print $1
else
  print $2

"if it's empty, look inside, otherwise use it"

[split grail]

alright

mi sona

[hot trout]

hm I thought 0 and 1 was false and true

apparently not!

[upbeat summit]

[[philosophy]] moment

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/philosophy

[upbeat summit]

probably bad!

woooo we now have an infobox image with alt text "sitelen in sitelen sitelen"

[split grail]

sitelen sitelen sitelen woo

[upbeat summit]

sitelen sitelen sitelen sitelen (written Sitelen Suwi relating to the word sitelen)

@split grail o

i just had the idea

you know how we have ... 12dayscorrections or what e ver it is

what if we did that for the notable videos on [[Videos by non-Tokiponists]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Videos_by_non-Tokiponists

[upbeat summit]

haicorrections

[grand marten]

mi ni la kulupu [Miraheze] li wile esun e poki nanpa sin anu seme

a poka la · jan li kama toki [pona] lon sitelen la ona o lon ala lon lipu

[upbeat summit]

sama seme

[grand marten]

sama moku [Oto] · lili la sama jan [Evildea]

[upbeat summit]

a

taso ona Oto li sitelen pona mute lon lipu ona la

…ni li kon sina

[upbeat summit]

@noble gulch o did you see our reply in [[Talk:Common misconceptions]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Talk:Common_misconceptions

[split grail]

ooo

o ni 👹

since you all figured out how to italicise things in titles, can you do this for the TOC

[grand marten]

n · pilin mi la ni li wile e ante suli a · kulupu [Miraheze] li ken ala e ante ni

[split grail]

for some reason, in the {{cite web}} template, the |access-date= parameter keep overriding |date=

see [[tawa]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tawa

[noble gulch]

Yeah I noticed that. I found that putting both in full ISO date form (YYYY-MM-DD) fixed it.

But if you do date=YYYY|access-date=YYYY-MM-DD then it'll clobber.

[split grail]

aaa

[split grail]

then what the heck

looking at your user page,,,, why

Wiktionary does that, Wikipedia does that

it's not exactly original research

[split grail]

it is good to have examples from outside, but do all of them have to?

especially because, sometimes they are more complex and have too much detail than we want to focus

[noble gulch]

So two questions: the first about "original research" I'll defer to you on what constitutes it -- I'm still trying to feel out the bounds here. About external examples, I think it improves the credibility and validity of sona.pona.la if it bases its articles on really-existing texts: otherwise it's difficult to find a source for things. Agreed that external examples can be sometimes more complex than is necessarily useful as a didactic tool, but that doesn't mean that no external example is suited. I don't really have a good or strict argument for why the examples should be external rather than made up except that intuitively it makes the articles feel stronger to me. I think I'm inspired a bit by PMEG (the Esperanto reference grammar), which adopts the external examples principle as a rule, so that you know that the author, Bertillo, isn't just making things up.

[split grail]

but that doesn't mean that no external example is suited.
there are many that are, but when they aren't it's better to create one

[noble gulch]

I think generally that the basis for the articles should be to report observed usage, and that I don't really trust myself not to futz with or fabricate examples to illustrate a point.

I think there's probably always an example in the wild that's suited, but I'll certainly grant that the ones I've put up may not all be.