LIPAMANKA PI FONT ALA | ma pona pi toki pona | Page 7

frank star Mar 24, 2023, 8:50 PM

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woah i can twin in city in 4 hours that's so cool

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i will not probably

marsh oak Mar 24, 2023, 8:50 PM

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ok but /srs i had been hearing references to it and decided to search up what it was and i liked the vibes of how the space was described by nano

floral crescent Mar 24, 2023, 8:51 PM

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im assuming some of the references were in the mod chat

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anyway lemme dm you the invite link

marsh oak Mar 24, 2023, 8:51 PM

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🙏🏼

marsh oak Mar 24, 2023, 8:52 PM

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floral crescent im assuming some of the references were in the mod chat

(yes you would be correct)

frank star Mar 24, 2023, 8:52 PM

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i will save on gas and walk there it is only 4 days away

floral crescent Mar 24, 2023, 8:52 PM

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owe

strong bramble Mar 24, 2023, 8:55 PM

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come to london guys

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we have red double decker buses

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and the tfl

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ez pz

halcyon siren Mar 24, 2023, 8:55 PM

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everyone should come to [city] because that's where i live and we have [distinctive thing] and also [tourist attraction]

strong bramble Mar 24, 2023, 8:57 PM

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halcyon siren everyone should come to [city] because that's where i live and we have [distinct...

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

halcyon siren Mar 24, 2023, 8:58 PM

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i was just saying this because i am not disclosing the city i live in

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(unless i already have accidentally in which case uhm. oops.)

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i've already said my time zone and country tho i think

patent yarrow Mar 24, 2023, 11:49 PM

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strong bramble come to london guys

no come to whidbey island, we've got 100% free bus service that covers the whole island

thin leaf Mar 25, 2023, 12:33 AM

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what is this thread about? is it just a general chat??? I got pinged in here and I don't understand what is happening

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 12:34 AM

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thin leaf what is this thread about? is it just a general chat??? I got pinged in here and...

check pins for the ping message

thin leaf Mar 25, 2023, 12:34 AM

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ah thank

rain lotusBOT Mar 25, 2023, 3:54 AM

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i can't tell if this is a joke or not

soweli Eweke ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) idea: kapesi means beige and not brown or grey like laso means cyan not blue or green wow!

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i will assume it isn't

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 3:55 AM

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i can't tell either tbh!!!!

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it was mostly

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like kapesi (if you use it) includes beige and laso includes cyan but those are not the definitions

rain lotusBOT Mar 25, 2023, 3:57 AM

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when languages conflate colours, it's not really that they have one colour as the Default
the whole spectrum is that colour
when i say "blue", i'm not referring specifically to the average of cyan and indigo, i'm referring to the Space that is blue

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 3:58 AM

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yeah

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laso is mostly just a "cool" color

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loje is a "warm" color

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jelo is

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hmm

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 4:03 AM

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jelo is a “happy” color /hj

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:04 AM

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idk it's the yellow section of the spectrum

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 4:04 AM

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~~jelo is a “banana” color~~

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:04 AM

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there's not really an english comparison like warm and cool

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laso loje jelo are hue
pimeja walo (and kapesi) are brightness

what's saturation
kule mute and kute lili?

yeah i like that

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RGB in toki pona is LLL

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loje laso ...
laso

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 4:10 AM

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i wonder if one could make a screen with pixels that aren’t RGB but are instead whatever the colors used in printers are (cyan, magenta, something and something i think???)

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:11 AM

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doesn't quite work - RGB is additive, CMYK is subtractive

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R+G+B = White

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C+M+Y = Black

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It'd not work as a traditional screen

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maybe as like an e-ink device with a backlight tho

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 4:13 AM

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oh gotcha

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:14 AM

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tangent: e-ink tattoos would be so cool

i will not elaborate

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 4:14 AM

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tho you gotta admit laso, loje, and jelo line up much better with cyan, magenta, and yellow

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 4:15 AM

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frank star tangent: e-ink tattoos would be so cool i will not elaborate

don’t they make something like that now, to check blood sugar levels or something?

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:15 AM

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the lljp color model 😌

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:16 AM

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tacit totem don’t they make something like that now, to check blood sugar levels or somethin...

whoa really? never heard of that

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 4:16 AM

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don’t cite me or anything, i don’t remember where i heard it

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i found an article: https://www.sciencealert.com/there-is-now-an-actual-tattoo-that-can-change-colour-based-on-glucose-levels

ScienceAlert

These Incredible Real Tattoos Change Colour as Biomarkers Like Gluc...

Enough of biosensor "tattoos" that are just a wearable sticker.

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:18 AM

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woah interesting

gloomy shale Mar 25, 2023, 4:18 AM

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frank star RGB in toki pona is LLL

LKT (loje/kasi/telo)

frank star Mar 25, 2023, 4:20 AM

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did you know? pink and cyan and grey hearts are going to be/are emoji!!! crazy!!

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 4:22 AM

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hm one thing i don’t like about my forms so far is that the stuff gets sent in and nobody sees the results bc i get too tired

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what if we did question threads with like a 6 hour slowmode for the first few days they’re open so people have to post posts

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and then after that turn the slowmode down to one hour and people can respond to each other’s posts in long form responses

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thoughts?

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 5:13 AM

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im so sorry i just realized this wasn’t #toki-ale i have not been paying proper attention

i still haven’t answered many of the forms despite wanting to, so i don’t think i’m a good source of ideas on this

undone crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:34 AM

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Can't pinpoint on why I feel this way but using a chat as a form seems like something I'd have less of a good time with

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:36 AM

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undone crescent Can't pinpoint on why I feel this way but using a chat as a form seems like some...

is it because the format is harder to get right or because you don't want your responses to be free for the public to see?

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if it's the first, I can come up with ideas of how to make it better (like specific instructions for copying and pasting a template to fill out)

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if it's the second then idk

undone crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:39 AM

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No idea maybe both
I'd also see other people's responses
I'd maybe also feel like I'm adapting my response to Discord's messages
Whatever that means

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:40 AM

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to the gaze of the people?

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hm tbh

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:41 AM

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floral crescent hm one thing i don’t like about my forms so far is that the stuff gets sent in a...

<@&1061183612709515354> thoughts?

tribal stone Mar 25, 2023, 5:42 AM

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i don't think i'd enjoy that personally

thin leaf Mar 25, 2023, 5:42 AM

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I like that idea. Making the conversation slow and deliberate will make it easier to keep up with as well as encourage deeper thought.

undone crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:42 AM

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floral crescent to the gaze of the people?

No?
More like
What I'd type in the text box of a Google form and what I'd type in Discord's chat box feels different. For things like, hm, length?

thin leaf Mar 25, 2023, 5:42 AM

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perhaps 2 hours is more reasonable, however

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:43 AM

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I just want it to be more of a conversation than a form to fill out

ivory thorn Mar 25, 2023, 5:43 AM

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floral crescent hm one thing i don’t like about my forms so far is that the stuff gets sent in a...

if you’re using google forms, theres an option to make responses public so after u respond, you get to see what others have said.

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:43 AM

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with a "by posting in this channel you agree to have anything quoted by lipamanka in essays"

ivory thorn Mar 25, 2023, 5:43 AM

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ivory thorn if you’re using google forms, theres an option to make responses public so after...

I personally don’t think typing into a channel is good

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:43 AM

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ivory thorn if you’re using google forms, theres an option to make responses public so after...

yeah but that's still not conversationy enough

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:44 AM

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floral crescent with a "by posting in this channel you agree to have anything quoted by lipamank...

With this disclaimer i think it’s a good idea

ivory thorn Mar 25, 2023, 5:44 AM

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floral crescent yeah but that's still not conversationy enough

idk i just feel like for forms, having it on discord feels odd

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:45 AM

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I am trying to shift the medium from forms to long form conversation

ivory thorn Mar 25, 2023, 5:45 AM

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long form convos 😭 lol

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:46 AM

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I think it would work well but it would definitely attract a specific type of ijo pi toki pona

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:48 AM

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I think it's just. significantly easier for me to keep track of and set up

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:48 AM

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Real !

tribal stone Mar 25, 2023, 5:48 AM

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if it's easier and more enjoyable for u than u should do it

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:48 AM

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aw I love you wenso..

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:48 AM

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It’s your essay/book!

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:49 AM

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true

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the names essay is halfway done btw

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I just got busy

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:49 AM

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I am also very busy ..

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:50 AM

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true...

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but you have like magic executive functioning powers

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:50 AM

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What if i told you i’m also doing math homework currently

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:52 AM

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i’m currently trying to get some sleep before a very long day

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it’s the last very long day for a while though

nimble sentinel Mar 25, 2023, 5:53 AM

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floral crescent hm one thing i don’t like about my forms so far is that the stuff gets sent in a...

Interesting to me

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Not aopposed

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:53 AM

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o lape pona lon tenpo SULI !!

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:54 AM

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i have to get up in 7.5 hours rat_broken_heart

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:54 AM

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😔😔

nimble sentinel Mar 25, 2023, 5:54 AM

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I think anythign ̽ is worth a try at least once
̽not something harmful

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:55 AM

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Go to ma pona!! (Your bed) (i’m delexicalizing)

nimble sentinel Mar 25, 2023, 5:55 AM

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Lipamanka

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Im going to the zoo tomorrow so i had to learn essential zoo sign language phrases

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 5:55 AM

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echo lion Go to ma pona!! (Your bed) (i’m delexicalizing)

i’m already in my bed so you were actually calquing there

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which is honestly not as bad as lexicalization

nimble sentinel Mar 25, 2023, 5:55 AM

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nimble sentinel Im going to the zoo tomorrow so i had to learn essential zoo sign language phras...

Uhhh and by that i mean i learned
I’m ansu
I’m autistic
Where are the fish
I like fish

echo lion Mar 25, 2023, 5:56 AM

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Hey that’s progress!

young moat Mar 25, 2023, 6:58 AM

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frank star It'd not work as a traditional screen

What about an LCD—actually can't those be additive or subtractive depending on polarity

mortal imp Mar 25, 2023, 12:49 PM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> thoughts?

I really get the potential benefits of doing it on discord but it feels like it'd get unwieldy fast and, like, participation could get a bit harder bc of a potential need to scroll a lot as responses pile up + keeping up with what people say semi-real time on Discord is more overwhelming than looking through poll responses on your own time + some jan sin could be intimidated by having to put their responses on a public forum

BUT I really do see the benefits plus I'm fairly new to ma pona and I have only participated in a single essay-related thing so I'm sure it could be handled so that it goes smoothly

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oh wow accidentally long response sorry

rain lotusBOT Mar 25, 2023, 12:58 PM

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the Thought
the goal of toki pona at the outset was to interrogate the way we think
not necessarily change said way, just figure out how we look at the world via the way we describe it, and so to learn more about ourselves
when you use toki pona in what you think are Objective ways (honestly can't remember the example i had in mind when i first proposed this), you abandon that attempt at understanding yourself
OH THE EXAMPLE
it was about loaning things
toki pona encourages a very particular way to interact with foreign words, that involves both looking at how the speakers of said words use and view the words, and how you see fit to adapt said words to toki pona
when you instead go "well they call it X, so changing that would be disrespectful", you're not learning much in terms of how to interact with things/people/ideas foreign to you, and instead put the responsibility on them instead

jan Lipamanka ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) oooo fun idea @ivory falcon can you elaborate a bit on that

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hope this made sense lol

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 1:20 PM

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hmmmmmm

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maybe

normal hearth Mar 25, 2023, 4:22 PM

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btw for the colors thing will there be the option to describe a color as multiple things

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like if something is both loje and jelo or both laso and pimeja

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 7:07 PM

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yeah I will be trying to collect qualitative data as well as quantitative

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 7:47 PM

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YESSSSS

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okay one thing that I'm worried about is that when I was typing I reached the message limit. I could go past it because of nitro but not everyone is able to do that. I was also pretty verbose in my responses. any thoughts on that?

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also please let me know if this happens to you as well.

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another thought: what if it was one question at a time?

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I think if it was one question a day for a few days it might be easier for people to fill out properly

ivory thorn Mar 25, 2023, 8:04 PM

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floral crescent another thought: what if it was one question at a time?

This would also solve the problem with messages being too long

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 8:04 PM

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absolutely!

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I think I will do it for the next testrum (it was a typo but I'm going to clal it that from now on )

ivory thorn Mar 25, 2023, 8:05 PM

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ivory thorn This would also solve the problem with messages being too long

well, i mean, ig u could still go over the limit if youve got a lot to write haha

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 8:05 PM

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yea

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 8:15 PM

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floral crescent I think if it was one question a day for a few days it might be easier for peopl...

this would definitely be less overwhelming and would make me more likely to actually do the thing (i still feel bad about not answering the 3 latest google forms, they're sitting in my email inbox gathering dust)

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 8:18 PM

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pona pona

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don't worry about those forms

tacit totem Mar 25, 2023, 8:36 PM

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floral crescent don't worry about those forms

thank you /gen /relieved

mortal imp Mar 25, 2023, 9:18 PM

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I had to trim my response because of character limit, so I really like the idea of making it one question at a time, plus it would give people more time/space to properly think through every question
(with the potential drawback that it could make polls with many questions take significantly longer, of course)

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 10:03 PM

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ye but I think it's worth it

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especially if the GOAL is long-form discussion

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hmm I'm wondering if one hour is like, way too long or if it's perfect

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I think it's too long.

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it would be much easier to have it be ten minutes and then people would be able to write replies faster, but still long form

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an hour might be too long

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hm actually y'know what

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fuck it

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@cedar grail can you make it 10 minutes slowmode

cedar grail Mar 25, 2023, 10:13 PM

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no /antisemitic

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it is now 10 minutes

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 10:14 PM

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it still shows up as an hour for me

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never mind I just had to reload discord

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oh never mind it's still an hour

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it's fine...

cedar grail Mar 25, 2023, 10:21 PM

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idk it says 10 mins for me

floral crescent Mar 25, 2023, 10:21 PM

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cedar grail idk it says 10 mins for me

it says 50 for me, because the countdown was still going before it was changed. maybe turn it off and then back on again

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it's okay though I don't care bc I'm BUSY

cedar grail Mar 25, 2023, 10:23 PM

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ok i turned it off and on again

cedar grail Mar 25, 2023, 10:23 PM

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floral crescent it's okay though I don't care bc I'm BUSY

okay well i do. i care about you get owned

short marlin Mar 25, 2023, 11:45 PM

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with regards to supa - good timing on this. i don't know if you saw my post about wanting to build a good nasin but yeah, supa is one of the words i was putting off contemplating

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because in the past I've used supa to mean any piece of furniture or a non-vertical flat surface (else it's a sinpin) , but that's a very english-y way to use supa

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also as I build up a better nasin im gonna make people learn about my belief system when I write about sewi

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because why not

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 1:04 PM

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hmmm what if i didn’t explain as much the grammar in my course and instead used more examples

undone crescent Mar 26, 2023, 5:39 PM

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spider-supa, spider-supa, does whatever a spider-supa does

tacit totem Mar 26, 2023, 6:44 PM

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undone crescent spider-supa, spider-supa, does whatever a spider-supa does

~~if sinpin are supa to spiderjan, it follows that sinpin are jan to spidersupa. in this essay, i will…~~

halcyon siren Mar 26, 2023, 7:09 PM

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sinpin/spiderjan = supa
sinpin/supajan = spider

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 7:12 PM

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so far i think my forum is successful! some changes that i’ll keep/start doing are

like 10 minute slow mode seems perfect
one question at a time
ping @blissful crag when i do them so he does them >:(

short marlin Mar 26, 2023, 8:06 PM

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floral crescent hmmm what if i didn’t explain as much the grammar in my course and instead used ...

I'd avoid that. we have speakers right now who don't understand the grammar rules very well and it leads to some very broken speech

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like there are ways you can break the grammar rules and make sense (like forcing non-content words to be content words, for example), but in order to do those effectively you have to have a good understanding of the grammar rules you're breaking

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:18 PM

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i’m skeptical that there’s no way this could work

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:24 PM

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in many language courses from english you don't worry much about grammar til you already know how to communicate in many contexts. it is a valid linguistic pedagogy.

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:25 PM

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i have though about this, usually that works with common phrases, and a core tenant of toki pona in my opinion is that it shouldn’t have those

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:25 PM

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grammar comes often baked into usage anyway

tribal stone Mar 26, 2023, 8:25 PM

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floral crescent hmmm what if i didn’t explain as much the grammar in my course and instead used ...

honestly i would genuinely prefer this because a lot of courses will off handedly mention grammar rules Once and then never again and there's not enough examples to have those rules stick into my head like there were a lot of grammatical elements i just did not retain because of that

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:25 PM

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floral crescent i have though about this, usually that works with common phrases, and a core ten...

yes, i see how this is different..

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:26 PM

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tribal stone honestly i would genuinely prefer this because a lot of courses will off handedl...

pona. i think there are ways to design it so that you can figure out the grammatical rule, kind of like a puzzle, based on several examples

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:26 PM

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i'd say we have common phrases anyway

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ale li pona

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kama pona

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:27 PM

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and the cards will be double sided, one side with latin under and the other without so you can choose if you want to use the examples as a way to memorize sitelen pona or not

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:27 PM

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thin leaf i'd say we have common phrases anyway

the ones you’ve listed are such a small part of the language and would hardly be as useful as common phrases in other languages are

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to learning

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:28 PM

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tru. i will say only i am interested to see how you manage this! I am certain it can be done.

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:28 PM

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i am as well!

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one card will explain how the course works (it uses a set of examples that together prove a rule, and you can figure what it is by looking at how they compare and contrast to each other

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)

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:31 PM

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Ahhhh so grammar by example kinda? Like teaching the rules of a game by playing it.

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:31 PM

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yep!

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:32 PM

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Reminds me of that idea that languages are just a collection of games we play in different contexts...

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 8:37 PM

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pros:

figuring patterns out naturally makes it easier to remember learned concepts
fun to make and fun to use
less cluttered with descriptions and english
no jargon needed to learn toki pona
more examples is good for learning
the modular design uses this to a not having to squeeze to squeeze a whole topic on one card. i don’t need just one card for noun phrases, i can split it up into more simple rules

cons:

as jan Juni mentioned not having the grammar rules written out might be a bad idea because people might misuse the language or learn the wrong rules.
this might end up being longer and harder to make
what i had before was working fine, and this is a huge design goal change

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for me the pros outweigh the cons

short marlin Mar 26, 2023, 8:52 PM

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thin leaf in many language courses from english you don't worry much about grammar til you...

interesting. this was not the pedagogy I did nor is it the way i learn best

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hence why it's new to me

thin leaf Mar 26, 2023, 8:53 PM

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yeah i normally just drill vocab and grammar till i get it, but not everybody learns like i do and i respect that

short marlin Mar 26, 2023, 8:53 PM

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also

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!remind me 1d how do you feel about being called jan Juni

fierce cairnBOT Mar 26, 2023, 8:53 PM

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Time is either in an inappropriate location, which must be either at the end or beginning of your input, or I just flat out did not understand what you meant. Sorry.

short marlin Mar 26, 2023, 8:54 PM

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!remindme 1d how do you feel about being called jan Juni

fierce cairnBOT Mar 26, 2023, 8:54 PM

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Alright prepkenile, I'll remind you about how do you feel about being called jan Juni in 1 day. ID: 55389489

echo lion Mar 26, 2023, 9:42 PM

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floral crescent pona. i think there are ways to design it so that you can figure out the grammat...

Have you seen jan Misali’s video about games with translation mechanics

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 9:43 PM

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echo lion Have you seen jan Misali’s video about games with translation mechanics

yep

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i have

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four times

echo lion Mar 26, 2023, 9:43 PM

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SO REAL

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I think something similar for toki pona would be an incredibly engaging teaching tool

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 9:44 PM

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adjacent to what i’m going for!

echo lion Mar 26, 2023, 9:46 PM

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I actually played through that one game that you can’t name without spoiling it

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It was in fact a very good translation mechanic

frank star Mar 26, 2023, 10:00 PM

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i thought of a game that's basically toki pona little alchemy but that wouldn't work tbh
it'd be kinda unsubjective

floral crescent Mar 26, 2023, 10:02 PM

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yeah, nice idea but beyond that i don’t think it would work well

frank star Mar 26, 2023, 10:03 PM

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yeah i came up with that idea before i started really getting into tp

tacit totem Mar 26, 2023, 10:56 PM

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echo lion I actually played through that one game that you can’t name without spoiling it

i think i know what game you mean because it was spoiled for me

cedar grail Mar 27, 2023, 6:33 AM

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..how do you play it without knowing the name. what sre y'all talking about

keen forum Mar 27, 2023, 10:26 AM

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cedar grail ..how do you play it without knowing the name. what sre y'all talking about

nono the thing is that if jan Misali were to say the name without a spoiler warning then that would spoil the fact that there's a translation mechanic in the game (because unlike the other games on the list it's not its main advertised feature)

floral crescent Mar 27, 2023, 1:13 PM

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i think i hit the sweet spot for 10 minutes. it took me about five of those ten minutes to finish writing a response which gives me more time to THINK about it instead of blurting it out instantly. i LOVE that. i’m slowing down my thoughts this is so good for my brain i think

floral crescent Mar 27, 2023, 5:20 PM

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uh delete that gif I very much so dislike many eyes like that and I'm typing this with my eyes closed

thin leaf Mar 27, 2023, 5:20 PM

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a ike :( sorry

floral crescent Mar 27, 2023, 5:20 PM

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sina pona

cedar grail Mar 27, 2023, 6:39 PM

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discord add an option to hide someone else's image client side option

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challenge

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why did i say option twice i meant challenge

floral crescent Mar 27, 2023, 6:43 PM

#

true

visual oracle Mar 27, 2023, 8:04 PM

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@floral crescent who says I need to wait 10 minutes? 😛

#

o lukin

floral crescent Mar 27, 2023, 8:04 PM

#

visual oracle <@423923305632890900> who says I need to wait 10 minutes? 😛

unless ur about to pull up an alt there's 10 minute slowmode

#

WOW

#

RUDE

floral crescent Mar 28, 2023, 1:06 AM

#

okay my supa thread has been a huge success so far!!!!

#

I'm going to make a new thread like either within the next 15 minutes or tomorrow or in a few months

#

let me go find my topics list

cedar grail Mar 28, 2023, 1:24 AM

#

epiku exciting

floral crescent Mar 28, 2023, 1:25 AM

#

okay I have a really fucking cool topic that will

explore colonialism and language and environmentalism
explore the concept of len by drawing our attention to how we are using it in our language

#

other things maybe

tacit totem Mar 28, 2023, 1:25 AM

#

floral crescent I'm going to make a new thread like either within the next 15 minutes or tomorro...

oh my god i wish you got to decide how time everywhere works

floral crescent Mar 28, 2023, 1:26 AM

#

lol

#

oh also everyone color study starting soon!

visual oracle Mar 28, 2023, 4:46 PM

#

oh no will there be a test /j

floral crescent Mar 28, 2023, 6:01 PM

#

COLOR CHIPS SECURED

#

#

<@&1061183612709515354> color study will be ready soon !!

#

hype

#

I'm hyped

naive lava Mar 28, 2023, 6:08 PM

#

are you gonna do the test with like just the colors, or colors in different contexts?

floral crescent Mar 28, 2023, 6:08 PM

#

different contexts

#

all sorts of shit

naive lava Mar 28, 2023, 6:08 PM

#

ye i assumed so
looking forward to the results!

leaden cradle Mar 28, 2023, 6:15 PM

#

PAINT CHIPS

floral crescent Mar 28, 2023, 6:16 PM

#

lkdsjfslkdj

leaden cradle Mar 28, 2023, 6:17 PM

#

i fuckin love paint chips

visual oracle Mar 28, 2023, 6:28 PM

#

idk they don't taste that good

stark epoch Mar 28, 2023, 7:23 PM

#

rhkwxduskfieosldjdoejbdiduejddjdnrnc

#

toki pona li jo ala e nimi kule /s

tacit totem Mar 28, 2023, 8:39 PM

#

visual oracle idk they don't taste that good

many chips don’t, i find

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:47 AM

#

okay new essay idea concept I'm gonna outline here: all languages have xyz, and why toki pona doesn't

a) all languages have a very large vocabulary. it's a feature intrinsic to language because without it, there would be no way to disambiguate complex concepts

this is actually false :P because toki pona works :P but also toki pona works because it uses context to disambiguate complex concepts, something that english and other natlangs can do too. Most if not all natlangs have a very large vocabulary, but it's not intrinsic to language and it's not necessary

b) all languages have to have recursion, i.e. embedding. it's impossible to have a language without it because without it, it would be impossible to have infinitely productive utterances and concepts, something which languages must have

chomsky shut the fuck up! but also even if you analyze la as embedding, that's irrelevant to this point because toki pona doesn't need to have la work in whatever recursive way you want to analyze it as working. toki pona doesn't need embedding because it uses anaphora, i.e. words that reference previous concepts. This serves the same goal as embedding/recursion (productivity) while not being embedding/recursion. And also english and most if not all other natlangs have and make use of anaphora. in toki pona, anaphora can be done with any word, but especially with ni, ona, and seme. in english, anaphora can be done with any word, especially third person pronouns, demonstrative pronouns, and interrogative pronouns. theoretically you could use ONLY anaphora to communicate infinitely productive utterances. toki pona is very close to this in practice.

c) some other universal that toki pona breaks idk

very cool argument for why toki poan doesn't break it

d) another one

yeah this again (three's a bad number >:()

#

@winged brook

#

thoughts

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:49 AM

#

you have conducted the summoning ritual, I am present

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:50 AM

#

hi

#

read

#

the thing

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:50 AM

#

but reading is haaaaard

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 1:51 AM

#

Doesn’t Pirahã lack recursion?

gloomy shale Mar 29, 2023, 1:51 AM

#

sona mi la jan Chomsky li toki e ni: mi ken toki e 'jan pona pona pona pona pona' li ken awen pana e nimi pona lon tenpo ale la ni li nasin Recursion

#

sina toki e nimi Recursion la sina o toki pona e kon nimi

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:52 AM

#

is anaphora also previous? doesn't ni have forward pointing anphora too, usually e ni:

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:52 AM

#

anaphora is previous

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:52 AM

#

anywya good essy

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:52 AM

#

cataphora is for the future things

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:52 AM

#

ahh

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:53 AM

#

and collectively I think they can be referred to as anaphora

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:53 AM

#

then TP uses both anaphora and cataphora

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:53 AM

#

yeah

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:53 AM

#

cantaphora

#

like "I cantaphorda this cost of living crisis"

gloomy shale Mar 29, 2023, 1:53 AM

#

winged brook then TP uses both anaphora and cataphora

a nasin soweli anu seme (mi sona ala e nasin sona toki)

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:53 AM

#

gloomy shale sona mi la jan Chomsky li toki e ni: mi ken toki e 'jan pona pona pona pona pona...

eh doing pona here isn't recursion because it's reduplication which doesn't do much in toki pona to influence productivity. so from a practical perspective chomsky's still wrong. toki pona's productivity definitely does not stem from any recursive elements you could ascribe to it

gloomy shale Mar 29, 2023, 1:54 AM

#

floral crescent eh doing pona here isn't recursion because it's reduplication which doesn't do m...

pilin mi li sama sina, taso a, jan sona pi nasin toki li ken wile pana e nimi Recursion tawa ni

#

la sina o utala lili e ni

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:54 AM

#

wawa

gloomy shale Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

a nasin sona pi toki ilo la nimi "right recursion" li lon

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

yeah I will explain that like, you could Limit the number of modifiers to like five with a Rule and then it would not have infinite recursively and usage wouldn't change at all and it would still have infinite productivity

gloomy shale Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

toki pona li ni

#

li nasin "left recursion" ala

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

gloomy shale pilin mi li sama sina, taso a, jan sona pi nasin toki li ken wile pana e nimi Re...

well linguists are bad and wrong 😠

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

this

gloomy shale Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

winged brook well linguists are bad and wrong 😠

lon mute

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

what do theywe know about languages

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:55 AM

#

except for me and jan Olipija and a couple of my professors who are based actually

#

and the bird

#

and uhhhhh that's it I think

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:56 AM

#

the only good linguists

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:56 AM

#

ye p

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:56 AM

#

also a lecturer at my uni

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:56 AM

#

true true

#

I agree

#

with that specific example you provided

#

of a specific lecturer

#

(I know the exact one)

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:56 AM

#

who is an ADHD queen

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:57 AM

#

no that's you

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:57 AM

#

and unironically said 'late stage capitalism' in a lecture once

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:57 AM

#

woah

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:57 AM

#

or was it 'end stage capitalism'

#

smthn like that

#

did the communism hand

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 1:57 AM

#

me when I have so much beef with linguists

lojelolipija ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) well linguists are bad and wrong 😠

#

When they analyze languages but what it can do for them but not what they can do for it wile_utala

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:58 AM

#

hi kala suno can I come study ur indigenous language /big pharma /old white guy linguist /ur my consultant

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:59 AM

#

rain lotus When they analyze languages but what it can do for them but not what they can do...

this as a poster

#

meme

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 1:59 AM

#

oh funny my professor who speaks some tsalagi also speaks some welsh

#

and my welsh friend and my tsalagi friend are both here

#

isnt' that cool

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 1:59 AM

#

heel ye

#

wych

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:00 AM

#

CONSULTANT FUCK noh

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:00 AM

#

(^great in welsh)

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:00 AM

#

who welsh where

#

OH EPIKU

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:00 AM

#

rain lotus who welsh where

fi, yma

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

rain lotus who welsh where

actually argentina

#

he studies the dialect of welsh spoken in argentina

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

I wanna go patagonia one day

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

you should

#

invite me tho

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

to the Wladfa

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

or go when I'm in brazil so I can visit and it's easier

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

wanna research what sign language is/was used there if pssible

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

Y WLADFA????

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

need to pass first

#

or like boymode for the entire time

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:02 AM

#

rain lotus Y WLADFA????

ie

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:02 AM

#

YOURE COOL

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:03 AM

#

hmmm I'd like to know your opinions on y wladfa

#

cause it was a colonialist project

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 2:03 AM

#

kala suno do you speak welsh

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:03 AM

#

you as in both you and lipamanka and also any other chippers in

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 2:04 AM

#

oh

#

looks it up

#

I think y wladfa is based tbh

#

collonialism is awesome

#

(not actually I do NOT think this)

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:05 AM

#

Colonization bad but they were actually pretty civil afaik????

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 2:05 AM

#

oh??? cool!

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:08 AM

#

Like when they first arrived the Tehuelche were like Hey What The Hell but then became cool and I don’t think genocided. The Welsh actually left bc they were being colonized by the English so I feel less angery at them than like, the Spanish

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:08 AM

#

looking into more critical lense now it seems like the worst thing pointed out was that Welsh was taught to the indiginous folks (not sure if this was to the extent of cultural genocide or not) and the indiginous folks weren't asked before the Welsh moved in

#

which could be worse

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:10 AM

#

rain lotus Like when they first arrived the Tehuelche were like Hey What The Hell but then ...

that makes sense

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:11 AM

#

This is just Wikipedia I don’t have the energy to look for verified sources rn but I haven’t seen any like. “Yeah no they actually killed us” type stuff from any Tehuelche ppl

#

Looks like the sheep farming was bad http://chileprecolombino.cl/en/pueblos-originarios/tehuelche/historia/

winged brook Mar 29, 2023, 2:12 AM

#

it is bad in Britain too tho

#

the land should be forest

#

Welsh farming culture fucks ourselves over ecologically

#

anyway

#

sleep time now

#

mi wile lape

#

o pona :)))

rain lotusBOT Mar 29, 2023, 2:13 AM

#

lape pona!!

#

(Please infodump to me about welsh in the future)

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 4:13 AM

#

lol my book will end up being a general linguistics textbook with a heavy toki pona focus maybe

brave rune Mar 29, 2023, 4:21 AM

#

ooh bad idea

#

we should make gender neutral versions of already gender neutral words

#

u can be profxssor lipamanka

#

🙏

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 4:22 AM

#

HÁ

#

(that means “there is” in portuguese)

brave rune Mar 29, 2023, 4:46 AM

#

||If i was a pharmacist i wouldn't wanna write the same thing hundreds of times if its super long||

tribal stone Mar 29, 2023, 4:51 AM

#

pxrson hxmyn

ashen loom Mar 29, 2023, 5:54 AM

#

Masc - Hefessor
Fem - Profemsor
Original - Professor
Common - Profxssor
Neuter - Pryfssor
Ungendered - Prxfyssxr
Blank - Prfssr
Other - P.
Grammatical Gender No. 9 - Prfsr
Secret 10th option - ????

ivory thorn Mar 29, 2023, 6:09 AM

#

brave rune u can be profxssor lipamanka

prxfxssxr lxpxmxnkx
hehe uwu

spare garnet Mar 29, 2023, 7:10 AM

#

afaik this is a thing generally in indo aryan langs esp punjabi

#

like in hindustani there are underlying schwas breaking up consonant clusters but which usually get elided

keen gate Mar 29, 2023, 8:47 AM

#

it's short for "recipe" ("take [this]" in Latin)

#

the symbol was originally "℞" (with the extra line being shorthand for an abbreviation), but "Rx" is easier to type

visual oracle Mar 29, 2023, 1:14 PM

#

rain lotus Doesn’t Pirahã lack recursion?

it's claimed that pirahã doesn't have recursion but literally only one linguist speaks it soooooo who knows if he's correct. There's no way right now to verify his work

halcyon siren Mar 29, 2023, 1:30 PM

#

i think the only real thing we can say about pirahã right now is like. "it appears to have a high concentration of uncommon things, and is generally not thoroughly studied"

floral crescent Mar 29, 2023, 3:18 PM

#

how to teach ni: “it means this. but it can also mean ‘yonder’ or ‘that’”

floral crescent Apr 3, 2023, 6:49 PM

#

mu

floral crescent Apr 3, 2023, 8:28 PM

#

~color study~

methodology: participants will be shown a series of images (by google form). In each image, there will be four or nine numbered rectangular color chips. Below will be a grid with the numbers on the left and the five color words on the top. Participants will choose which color chips in the image fit within which toki pona colors, or which toki pona color word fits it best in context if it could be multiple.

bias: to make sure that there isn't bias based off of proficiency, each participant will be asked to provide the following. any patterns in the data based off of these demographics will be analyzed.

amount of time speaking toki pona
relative proficiency speaking toki pona
native language
any other languages and proficiencies
i will not be asking about gender. the average toki ponist has 1.3 genders according to the recent census and that number should be higher in my sample because most of the places i use toki pona are very queer

cool I think

#

practicality: toki pona only has five color words. I will not be analyzing usage of additional color words beyond these five. Because it has so few color words, it will be easy for participants to sort a lot of them at once. I am expecting a large sample size of over 50.

#

hey <@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> react lipamanka_li_gay if you see this and might participate

#

(you don't have to read the whole above, if you might participate in my color study then react)

tacit totem Apr 3, 2023, 9:02 PM

#

||“other languages and proficiencies” is a category on 5th edition D&D character sheets”||

floral crescent Apr 3, 2023, 9:02 PM

#

amazing"

halcyon siren Apr 3, 2023, 11:03 PM

#

how is “relative proficiency in toki pona” going to be defined? same as the roles on this server?

floral crescent Apr 3, 2023, 11:14 PM

#

nope there will be a separate “i would not self describe as a proficient toki pona speaker” “i would self describe as a proficient toki pona speaker with minimal experience” “i would self describe as a toki pona speaker with moderate experience” and “i would self describe as a speaker with a lot of experience” and then below that will be a long answer question for people to elaborate as they wish

cedar grail Apr 3, 2023, 11:52 PM

#

develop a standardized test to evaluate proficiency

floral crescent Apr 3, 2023, 11:57 PM

#

*assess

#

evaluation is a different thing

halcyon siren Apr 4, 2023, 12:27 AM

#

<misinformation> it doesn't matter that much, everyone will answer "fluent" anyways. after all, you can basically learn toki pona in like 20 minutes anyways.

frank star Apr 4, 2023, 12:28 AM

#

no i don't think so

halcyon siren Apr 4, 2023, 12:28 AM

#

but toki pona is so simple you can learn it in like ten minutes of concentrated work.

#

</misinformation>

frank star Apr 4, 2023, 12:29 AM

#

bro what html tag is that why is it closed where is the opening tag

halcyon siren Apr 4, 2023, 12:30 AM

#

fixed

frank star Apr 4, 2023, 12:31 AM

#

neat parauhuh

umbral stream Apr 4, 2023, 12:32 AM

#

on the other message

#

oh i see it was edited

frank star Apr 4, 2023, 12:33 AM

#

i need to make my website right now it only says
"Hello World
This website was made using GitHub Pages"

jolly widget Apr 4, 2023, 5:36 AM

#

cedar grail develop a standardized test to evaluate proficiency

thats a good idea, but who is going to create the test?

halcyon siren Apr 4, 2023, 5:38 AM

#

i think the idea is fundamentally flawed because toki pona isn’t about baseline knowledge, it’s about creatively rephrasing and getting your point across

cedar grail Apr 4, 2023, 5:43 AM

#

I don't actually think this was a great idea, it was a joke lol

#

I don't see much point in this test and I think it would be difficult or impossible to design

#

something to be said here though about standardized testing in general blablabla

raven ibex Apr 4, 2023, 5:49 AM

#

you can test basic knowledge of the vocabulary and grammar
but that's not really useful information because the vast majority of respondents would get a perfect score on that kind of thing

#

beyond that it's probably more informative for someone to be like interviewed by a few different proficient speakers

#

i do think it would be neat to see trends in responses correlated with whether a speaker's nasin is ntp-like, or nasa, or Englishy

#

but collecting that data is maybe inherently ike

cedar grail Apr 4, 2023, 6:09 AM

#

you could do the test in toki pona taso and test reading comprehension

#

might be hard to standardize testing what they write, though lol

gloomy shale Apr 4, 2023, 6:24 AM

#

raven ibex beyond that it's probably more informative for someone to be like interviewed by...

ijo ntp li seme

raven ibex Apr 4, 2023, 6:24 AM

#

nasin toki pona

gloomy shale Apr 4, 2023, 6:24 AM

#

a. lipu nasin toki pona

#

anu seme

raven ibex Apr 4, 2023, 6:24 AM

#

ni

gloomy shale Apr 4, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

ni li mi...

raven ibex Apr 4, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

wawa

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 1:19 PM

#

nanpa wan la
sina mu ala mu?

mu
mu
(mu ala li lon ala)

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 2:03 PM

#

okay the answer for a proficiency test is actually /educational psychology

#

……… ASSESSING HIGHER LEVELS OF THING

#

LIKE UH

#

i forgot the term

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 2:04 PM

#

what does 'high level toki pona' even mean

not that i cannot define this, more i am asking, what does it mean to you, the reader

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 2:05 PM

#

, n no

#

no not high level toki pona

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 2:05 PM

#

i am asking an orthogonal question

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 2:05 PM

#

i mean synthesis and evaluation

#

maybe analysis

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 2:05 PM

#

mi ken ala toki 👍 mi kalama taso

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 2:05 PM

#

“what is the word for bird” sucks

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 2:06 PM

#

mi tu li kalama sama tan ijo sama la nimi

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 2:06 PM

#

seme

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 2:06 PM

#

mi musi lili

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 2:06 PM

#

blissful crag mi tu li kalama sama tan ijo sama la nimi

ni li sona lon, taso mi weka e sona poka mute

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 2:06 PM

#

a

#

but anyway we would need to design a RUBRIC for an ACTIVE ASSESSMENT

#

or a RUBRIC for a HIGH LEVEL ASSESSMENT

#

basically if it doesn’t need a rubric it’s probably not a good assessment for toki pona

blissful crag Apr 4, 2023, 2:14 PM

#

wasn't the community opposed to standardized-testing toki pona proficiency as recently as a few months ago

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 2:15 PM

#

with a lack of nuance

#

what would a standardized test be for??

#

basically standardized tests in theory are meant to do xyz but in practice often do abc instead so probably not a good idea

#

i am still opposed to testing toki pona proficiency using assessments

#

however, the reasons i have for this are more nuanced than the ones i’ve had before

raven ibex Apr 4, 2023, 3:38 PM

#

what are the nuanced reasons?

#

i don't really have a theoretical foundation here other than like
boy standardized tests sure do like to hurt feelings and exacerbate various inequalities

#

and be wrong a lot

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 3:42 PM

#

the nuance is about where the harm they do is

#

theoretically it would be useful to have data you could give to a learner about where they should be going

raven ibex Apr 4, 2023, 4:03 PM

#

ah yeah

visual oracle Apr 4, 2023, 8:04 PM

#

it's hard to imagine a situation where a proficiency test exists unless the test result is gatekeeping something

#

and any kind of standard whatever is going to emphasize teaching and speaking in a specific kind of way

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 8:23 PM

#

"test" as a term is used to refer to assessments as well

#

this doesn't reflect their current usage in the united states but it's theoretically possible for a standardized toki pona test to be useful and not bad. I would recommend against trying to let it happen because it would hardly be used for good.

visual oracle Apr 4, 2023, 8:28 PM

#

yeah

#

there's many things that can be not-harmful on their own but under capitalism and hierarchical society they basically are always harmful in some way

cedar grail Apr 4, 2023, 9:13 PM

#

hm i wonder if it could be cool if it just pointed out the mistakes or deviations from common nasin without grading. i wonder if that way you could stop people like. wearing their grade as a badge

#

at a certain point though you're blurring the line from "test" to "learning tool" which is fine i guess

#

also deviates from the point of the original post tho lol

floral crescent Apr 4, 2023, 9:26 PM

#

visual oracle there's many things that can be not-harmful on their own but under capitalism an...

actually for a lot of assessments (not tests in general) most of the societal things surrounding them is recent (like within the past 30 years)

#

not all though

#

like the SAT is supposedly an assessment

#

and it's been shit for a century or something

#

however for example the MAP test is not being used to assign worth (I have other problems with it but none of those problems are systemic)

#

ideally it would be an active assessment with a specific rubric

#

akin to a drivers test, not a no. 2 pencil fill in the blank test

#

or akin to an oral exam, not a fill in the blank.

#

these are all useful things in learning but the effectiveness of a test for toki pona would be WAY more useful if it focused on the top three or four. because the vocab is so small, the "remember" portion is not useful to assess

Blooms_Taxonomy_pyramid_cake-style-use-with-permission.png

#

so for example for for "apply" a question would ask a participant to use the language, perhaps in a short answer question. "describe a tree in at least three sentences, however you wish to define a sentence" and a rubric that has a list of things an answer should have and some example answers

#

an "analyze" question would be like perhaps "describe the difference between mu and kalama"

#

evaluate could be "have a TAKE on mije, meli, and tonsi"

#

create would be "tell a story about two animals who fall in love"

undone crescent Apr 4, 2023, 9:53 PM

#

sometimes I'm like "sorry, can't"
"no thanks"
and then "oh that I can do"

floral crescent Apr 5, 2023, 4:32 AM

#

TENPO ESSAY: HOW TO TALK ABOUT TIME IN CREATIVE WAYS

#

yooo

#

@tribal stone @cedar grail @near hamlet @queen finch

#

random ppl

#

who i like

cedar grail Apr 5, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

henlo

tribal stone Apr 5, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

jumpscare

cedar grail Apr 5, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

why are you pinging ren and maki on ma pona... scary and cursed

floral crescent Apr 5, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

@maiden light

tribal stone Apr 5, 2023, 4:35 AM

#

cedar grail why are you pinging ren and maki on ma pona... scary and cursed

this is so real of u

cedar grail Apr 5, 2023, 4:35 AM

#

thanks

near hamlet Apr 5, 2023, 4:36 AM

#

i will do this tomorrow when i am awake bc right now its today and im asleep

#

shmimimi

cedar grail Apr 5, 2023, 4:36 AM

#

o asleep pona

#

sumimimimi

queen finch Apr 5, 2023, 4:39 AM

#

i have no idea how to talk about anything in creative ways tbh

#

i have however been trying to come up with a 44 key sitelen pona typewriter

keen gate Apr 5, 2023, 5:21 AM

#

floral crescent an "analyze" question would be like perhaps "describe the difference between mu ...

I could ramble about this for a good minute

thin leaf Apr 5, 2023, 5:24 AM

#

oops i did a respond when i ment to just post sorry lipamanka

#

i am tech illiterate and or having brain problems apparently

floral crescent Apr 5, 2023, 5:36 AM

#

dw about it

maiden light Apr 5, 2023, 12:05 PM

#

floral crescent <@406986023890059264>

mu

mortal imp Apr 5, 2023, 12:22 PM

#

ooo I'm very interested in this forum, will respond in a couple hours

cedar grail Apr 5, 2023, 9:39 PM

#

ilo li Kanata e sina owe

normal hearth Apr 8, 2023, 10:02 PM

#

gotta say Im not sure how to feel abt this new format. Im not much of a conversationalist n I just feel like Im better able to get my thoughts down when Im being given specific questions to answer

#

and also like,,, I feel like being able to have everyone else in the chat immediately see my answers makes me less likely to say things? like I know its not a test but I feel like Id get things "wrong" you get what I mean anu seme

thin leaf Apr 8, 2023, 10:21 PM

#

everyone raise your hand if someone else raised their hand

gloomy shale Apr 8, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

mi wile sona e ni: jan seme li lon ala. sina lon ala la o sewi e luka sina

floral crescent Apr 8, 2023, 11:37 PM

#

fair enough!

#

i will maybe do both

#

who knows

normal hearth Apr 10, 2023, 8:59 PM

#

is the color thing out yet did I miss it

undone crescent Apr 10, 2023, 9:01 PM

#

not yet

normal hearth Apr 10, 2023, 9:05 PM

#

ok👍

queen finch Apr 10, 2023, 9:09 PM

#

glyph suggestion

normal hearth Apr 10, 2023, 9:10 PM

#

why did it gain another y

queen finch Apr 10, 2023, 9:11 PM

#

:)

normal hearth Apr 10, 2023, 9:12 PM

#

its just gonna get slowly overtaken

#

yupekysy

queen finch Apr 10, 2023, 9:13 PM

#

thin leaf Apr 11, 2023, 8:19 AM

#

yypykysy

normal hearth Apr 11, 2023, 12:10 PM

#

yyyyyyyy

thin leaf Apr 11, 2023, 6:41 PM

#

ascention complete. we have transcended form and substance

barren path Apr 11, 2023, 10:07 PM

#

yuvegozi

thin leaf Apr 11, 2023, 11:54 PM

#

jujejoji

#

yuyeyoyi

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 2:27 AM

#

mi lipamanka ala

#

taso mi wile sitelen e pilin mi ni

#

jan li toki pona la ona li toki e ijo mute

#

jan pi toki Inli li toki pona la ona li wile toki e ni: "mi moku e kili"

#

taso ona li wile toki mute e kili

#

ona li wile toki e ale kili

#

ona li wile e ni: jan ante pi toki Inli li sona e kili

#

ona li sona e ijo mute pi kili ni

#

ni li pona ala lon tenpo ala

#

tenpo la mi wile e kili li wile ala toki e ale kili

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 2:55 AM

#

https://lipamanka.gay/essays/kili

lipamanka's website

kili

floral crescent Apr 12, 2023, 2:55 AM

#

\ <@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> quill wrote a little thing

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 2:56 AM

#

he also asked me to translate it to english so that's gonna come soon I think !

#

oh never midn the font doesn't work apparently

vernal ore Apr 12, 2023, 2:57 AM

#

it seems to be working for me

leaden cradle Apr 12, 2023, 2:57 AM

#

works for me

vernal ore Apr 12, 2023, 2:58 AM

#

lipamanka o toki Insali?

Screen_Shot_2023-04-11_at_10.57.36_PM.png

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 3:01 AM

#

Inli

#

do you have linja lipamanka downloaded on your computer

jan Poman ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) it seems to be working for me

#

try opening the link on your phone

vernal ore Apr 12, 2023, 3:03 AM

#

a, yeah that doesn't work

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 3:10 AM

#

should be fixed in under a minute

#

okay turn ur phone on its side

vernal ore Apr 12, 2023, 3:29 AM

#

vernal ore lipamanka o toki Insali?

this does say Insali though right? seems like a mistake

halcyon siren Apr 12, 2023, 3:33 AM

#

that looks right to me

#

unless i forgot how to write

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 3:35 AM

#

yes

jan Natan¹ · ilo Mimuki [no tone tags or else] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) [insa] = i
[ insa . ] = in
[ insa . . ] = insa

#

quill fucked up I think?

stark epoch Apr 12, 2023, 3:39 AM

#

floral crescent \ <@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> quill wrote a little thing

neat

echo lion Apr 12, 2023, 4:35 AM

#

pana sona ona li wawa a

#

pilin mi li sama

#

jan li toki e “kili jelo palisa pi selo jaki” la mi pilin e ike lawa 😭

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 5:12 AM

#

ken

jan Ono‼ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) jan li toki e “kili jelo palisa pi selo jaki” la mi pilin e ike lawa 😭

queen finch Apr 12, 2023, 6:02 AM

#

oh does the "final nasal is a separate mora" thing only apply to words that start with consonants

#

ig that'd make sense cause with words that start with vowels, if one dot only included the vowel that'd be completely redundant

normal hearth Apr 12, 2023, 9:31 AM

#

I mostly understood it except for "ijo taso suli li pona ona mi" ???

hushed gorge Apr 12, 2023, 1:34 PM

#

trying to unlock the secrets behind toki pona words
[sona] = s
[sona.] = so
[sona..] = sona
[sona...] = sona[??]

undone crescent Apr 12, 2023, 1:35 PM

#

sona, but with a typo

hushed gorge Apr 12, 2023, 1:35 PM

#

Aha!

blissful crag Apr 12, 2023, 2:41 PM

#

hushed gorge trying to unlock the secrets behind toki pona words `[sona]` = s `[sona.]` = so ...

sona but it also takes a mora from the following word

rough isle Apr 12, 2023, 2:47 PM

#

[sona . . . sona . .] = sonasosona florshed

echo lion Apr 12, 2023, 3:01 PM

#

normal hearth I mostly understood it except for "ijo taso suli li pona ona mi" ???

My interpretation: the only important thing is that it’s good to me

mortal imp Apr 12, 2023, 3:09 PM

#

taking the following word's mora sounds lojban-y, in a way

rain lotusBOT Apr 12, 2023, 3:11 PM

#

considering the first person to suggest such things was poni Kisa, yeah definitely loglang

floral crescent Apr 12, 2023, 3:28 PM

#

echo lion My interpretation: the only important thing is that it’s good to me

quill says this one’s right

echo lion Apr 12, 2023, 4:15 PM

#

🥳

uncut rivet Apr 12, 2023, 11:39 PM

#

oh please do

#

N for nasa A for ala /joking

frank star Apr 14, 2023, 2:38 AM

#

@floral crescent i think it broke?

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 2:44 AM

#

no i forgot to put a space between soweli and li

frank star Apr 14, 2023, 2:44 AM

#

i highlighted it it said sowe lili

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 3:08 AM

#

yea I just fixed it

visual oracle Apr 14, 2023, 4:29 PM

#

lipamanka o, the warnings about "sideways on mobile" lon lipu sina la, maybe you can detect+warn/force it: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14360581/force-landscape-orientation-mode

Stack Overflow

Force “landscape” orientation mode

I'm trying to force the "landscape" mode for my application because my application is absolutely not designed for the "portrait" mode.
How can I do that?

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:29 PM

#

OOOoooOOOooOOOO GENIU&S

#

I will perhaps look into it

visual oracle Apr 14, 2023, 4:30 PM

#

detect la you could apply css to prevent line wrapping on small-width screens

#

that was the problem right?

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:30 PM

#

yes

visual oracle Apr 14, 2023, 4:30 PM

#

would force people to horizontal scroll but that could be a solution if people want it to be portrait

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:30 PM

#

perhaps yes !

visual oracle Apr 14, 2023, 4:30 PM

#

or maybe detect it + add a larger html div about the layout warning

#

like js on window resolution change -> check portrait vs landscape/min width, change what css class is applied and then css rules handle the bits

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:31 PM

#

if you want to send a push on github I would appreciate it because I have no idea how to do any of this

visual oracle Apr 14, 2023, 4:31 PM

#

nasin mute ¯_(ツ)_/¯

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:31 PM

#

otherwise I could try to figure it out later

visual oracle Apr 14, 2023, 4:31 PM

#

I am bad at webdev

#

I just googled randomly

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:31 PM

#

lmao

visual oracle Apr 14, 2023, 4:31 PM

#

I have no idea what the best practice is here especially as it relates to accessibility

#

I just know that "reactive layout" is the kind of keyword you want to look for in terms of a11y

frank star Apr 14, 2023, 4:32 PM

#

I read the story by the way and I really liked it

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:35 PM

#

aw thanks

hushed gorge Apr 14, 2023, 4:44 PM

#

Made me realize I should learn sitelen pona for real

#

I hope I think about the story every time I see a waso

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:46 PM

#

you should dm it to a friend every time you see a waso

hushed gorge Apr 14, 2023, 4:49 PM

#

Yes especially the ones that don't know toki pona lol

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:49 PM

#

yes!

#

they will click on it

#

number go up !!

hushed gorge Apr 14, 2023, 4:50 PM

#

Holy dang!

#

Looking for waso right now

#

This is so funny

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:56 PM

#

lskdfjs

#

yes

hushed gorge Apr 14, 2023, 4:56 PM

#

Anyway um I had another cool thing to say to you but I don't know what it is

floral crescent Apr 14, 2023, 4:59 PM

#

damn

frosty roost Apr 14, 2023, 6:08 PM

#

sina mi anu seme?! tenpo ale la, mi ni

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 12:58 AM

#

I LOVE the use of line breaks and whitespace in these writings it's so cool and makes it so easy to read

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 12:59 AM

#

yeah that should become the nasin sitelen

#

it just should

#

it's so clearly better than not doing that

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 12:59 AM

#

I agree

#

Heck trying to "save space" or whatever, I'd rather be able to read stuff

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 1:00 AM

#

save space? What for, there's so much space

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 1:00 AM

#

Idk whenever I write I want to try to make it compact for no reason

#

Maybe I should just go learn ithkuil lol

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 1:01 AM

#

it's hard for me to not write small tbh

#

though I think one aspect is, that kind of formatting is easy to do in slow posting when you can review revise edit etc

#

for conversation or quick notes it wouldn't make as much sense, though you could incorporate parts

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 1:15 AM

#

visual oracle yeah that should become the nasin sitelen

this is why I'm writign so many things :D

#

if you would like to submit stories to be credited to you and hosted on my website I encourage you to do so! I encourage you even more to put them on your won site but I'm willing to host it!

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 1:24 AM

#

Wow we can join lipamanka.gay? (Im joking and only bringing this up because that section on your website made me smile)

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 1:24 AM

#

hushed gorge Wow we can join lipamanka.gay? (Im joking and only bringing this up because that...

YOU can

#

in fact if would make people less suspicious of me

#

and u are a close friend or somethign (we know who each other are and I like you)

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 1:25 AM

#

wow... thank you that means a lot :)

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 1:26 AM

#

now write something >:( utala

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 1:27 AM

#

What about though

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 1:28 AM

#

idfk

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 1:30 AM

#

Me neither

#

I'll have to think about it

#

I've never actually written anything toki pona taso outside of discord conversations

#

Ooh I should write a toki pona SONG and it'll have a GROOVY TUNE and the lyrics will MEAN SOMETHING

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 1:35 AM

#

difficult as fuck

#

if u want I'll sing it for u

#

tho

hushed gorge Apr 15, 2023, 1:37 AM

#

:0 really that's so cool of you

#

That's actually the part I didn't think about how difficult it'd be for me to do that

#

Ooh yeah that'd be kinda interesting

#

Like the metamorphosis by franz kafka

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 3:28 AM

#

challenge for the story I'm writing: use ona mije and ona meli but not in a bad way

urban fractal Apr 15, 2023, 3:30 AM

#

idea ||they actually refer to the same person and one is them masking and the other is their real self||

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 3:35 AM

#

urban fractal idea ||they actually refer to the same person and one is them masking and the ot...

no i already have my story

#

itll just have a mije and a meli and i’ll modify ona with mije and meli a few times

urban fractal Apr 15, 2023, 3:36 AM

#

epic

gloomy shale Apr 15, 2023, 5:33 PM

#

@floral crescent lipu sina li toki pona li pona. o awen a

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 5:36 PM

#

a mi awen

#

(tawa seme?)

#

a! mi o awen pali

#

lsdfljksdj

ivory thorn Apr 15, 2023, 5:45 PM

#

a a a a musi a

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 5:50 PM

#

next one is going to be a soup recipe

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 7:28 PM

#

@ivory falcon @indigo crown @winged brook thought you might like this

#

I forgot one though

#

which one???

#

OH I FORGOT J

#

here we go

#

oh @urban fractal I meant to ping you I pinged someone else instead oops

urban fractal Apr 15, 2023, 7:35 PM

#

this is really cool

winged brook Apr 15, 2023, 7:37 PM

#

ni li pona 🙂

rough isle Apr 15, 2023, 7:48 PM

#

pona a

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 7:58 PM

#

floral crescent here we go

can you update this into the first image? This seems worth saving in places

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 7:59 PM

#

it's going to be on my website

#

but sure

#

#

here ya go

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 7:59 PM

#

oh ok then

urban vectorBOT Apr 15, 2023, 7:59 PM

#

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 7:59 PM

#

oops

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 7:59 PM

#

I was just thinking it would be fun to have on the learning server

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 8:00 PM

#

/sp nanpa wan la kalama
zz kalama seme li lon toki
toki pona la kalama ni

zz[ike] zzzz[utala]
zzzz[esun]zz[open]
zzzzzzzz[alasa]

[moli] [noka]
[pakala] [toki] [kiwen]
zzzzzz [sewi]
[wawa] [lukin][ jelo]

#

how to do line breaks on computer

#

wtf

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 8:05 PM

#

linku recognizes \n I believe

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 8:06 PM

#

ohh

urban vectorBOT Apr 15, 2023, 8:07 PM

#

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 8:07 PM

#

woah

#

it got squished

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 8:08 PM

#

probably an artifact of how it was rendered

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 8:08 PM

#

yep

maiden light Apr 15, 2023, 8:09 PM

#

squishylen pona

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 8:10 PM

#

wait

#

that's

#

poofy pillows

#

sitelen pona themed poofy pillows

floral crescent Apr 15, 2023, 8:13 PM

#

oh my god I want them now

visual oracle Apr 15, 2023, 8:15 PM

#

yess

rain lotusBOT Apr 17, 2023, 3:05 AM

#

https://lipamanka.gay
our site is now better looking and more fun to use!

lipamanka's website

LIPUmanka

lipamanaka's website, shared by lipamanka and a few other people

jaunty seal Apr 18, 2023, 11:09 PM

#

lipingmanka
that is all

normal hearth Apr 19, 2023, 5:06 AM

#

epic jasima story

#

I like the way you use repetition in your writing. adds a certain flavor

maiden light Apr 19, 2023, 7:38 AM

#

I want to get around to reading it this weekend

floral crescent Apr 19, 2023, 11:07 AM

#

normal hearth I like the way you use repetition in your writing. adds a certain flavor

yes i like it too

#

if you see a bunch of the same stuff in a column or a diagonal your brain will make a pattern of it and you don’t actually need to read what the symbol is each time

#

repetition is really useful for that but so is repeating “li” on a new line

blissful crag Apr 19, 2023, 12:42 PM

#

lipamankojn
that is all

halcyon siren Apr 19, 2023, 12:59 PM

#

blissful crag lipamankojn that is all

“lipamanka” is an adjective, then?

blissful crag Apr 19, 2023, 1:00 PM

#

halcyon siren “lipamanka” is an adjective, then?

yes

floral crescent Apr 19, 2023, 3:13 PM

#

blissful crag lipamankojn that is all

the -n is the infinitive marker just because i’m jewish? wow..

blissful crag Apr 19, 2023, 3:18 PM

#

tbh i just like the way -ojn sounds

floral crescent Apr 19, 2023, 3:23 PM

#

oʒĩ

halcyon siren Apr 19, 2023, 4:45 PM

#

blissful crag tbh i just like the way -ojn sounds

i think esperanto’s phonaesthetic is very interesting and pretty, but interesting is the exact opposite of what a “good” “international” lang should want

floral crescent Apr 19, 2023, 5:29 PM

#

next thing I'm gonna write about: stories

halcyon siren Apr 19, 2023, 5:37 PM

#

ooo

visual oracle Apr 19, 2023, 6:19 PM

#

ponaaa

naive lava Apr 19, 2023, 6:21 PM

#

floral crescent the -n is the infinitive marker just because i’m jewish? wow..

it's the accusative plural noun, -ojn
infinitive is -i

floral crescent Apr 19, 2023, 6:22 PM

#

:(

naive lava Apr 19, 2023, 6:22 PM

#

(:>

mortal imp Apr 19, 2023, 6:25 PM

#

I've been really enjoying these tpt lipu

floral crescent Apr 19, 2023, 6:28 PM

#

aw thanks

visual oracle Apr 19, 2023, 6:36 PM

#

naive lava it's the accusative plural noun, -ojn infinitive is -i

But why are you accusing them 😭 /j

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 12:48 AM

#

visual oracle But why are you accusing them 😭 /j

‘ojn’ stole my tuna >:(

#

||cuz luna, tuna it rhymes||

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 4:05 AM

#

i’ve been thinking about jan and i am kind of disappointed that it’s so closely related to individual identity

#

jan is SO USEFUL when talking about groups of people and culture

halcyon siren Apr 20, 2023, 4:37 AM

#

real real

#

a

#

lon lon

gloomy shale Apr 20, 2023, 4:52 AM

#

nasin jan

#

kulupu jan

leaden cradle Apr 20, 2023, 4:54 AM

#

mi toki mute e "kulupu jan" (anu "kulupu" taso)

halcyon siren Apr 20, 2023, 4:55 AM

#

lon

#

taso

#

“jan” taso li ken toki e ni

#

jan mute li sona ala e ni

leaden cradle Apr 20, 2023, 4:56 AM

#

wile mi la jan li sona e toki mi, la mi kepeken nimi pi sona jan. jan li kama sona e nasin sin pona la mi kepeken

#

nn.. toki ni la, mi kepeken nimi "jan" sama nasin pi wile sina anu seme? mi sona ala a

raven ibex Apr 20, 2023, 5:03 AM

#

floral crescent i’ve been thinking about jan and i am kind of disappointed that it’s so closely ...

idgwym here

#

sina ken kepeken nimi jan tawa kulupu
mi ni mute

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:07 AM

#

[ˈɪdgʊɨm]

waso Keli ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) idgwym here

raven ibex Apr 20, 2023, 5:08 AM

#

aaa sona

#

nimi jan o weka e sona pi noka tu
ni li suli ala

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:09 AM

#

i think of ‘person’ (and jan) as any sentient thingy, as opposed to ‘human’ specifically

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:10 AM

#

i've seen a lot of ppl claim such things and then contradict it in their usage
stuff like calling primates or big apes jan, calling penguins jan, &c

#

which is one of the big reasons i reject jan

#

oh what does the plant thing happen for everyone now

#

I dislike ascribing sentience to personhood for….historical reasons

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:11 AM

#

rain lotus i've seen a lot of ppl claim such things and then contradict it in their usage s...

wdym?

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:11 AM

#

i thought it was only if you had the role

leaden cradle Apr 20, 2023, 5:11 AM

#

n

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:11 AM

#

did one of us get the role at some point or smth

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:11 AM

#

rain lotus I dislike ascribing sentience to personhood for….historical reasons

elaborate?

#

im so confused whats with the flower

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:12 AM

#

I’m Indigenous

kisa/soweli Luna ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) elaborate?

#

So

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:12 AM

#

rain lotus I’m Indigenous

and you are sentient, no?

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:12 AM

#

i've seen ppl say "jan just means person to me" while using jan to refer to monkeys or chimps or penguins

kisa/soweli Luna ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) wdym?

#

According to some people in the past and currently, no lmao

kisa/soweli Luna ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) and you are sentient, no?

#

Too many people confuse sentience and sapience as well so it’s like really difficult when u get there

raven ibex Apr 20, 2023, 5:13 AM

#

rain lotus oh what does the plant thing happen for everyone now

temporarily yes, will be fixed in the future

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:14 AM

#

and jan just ends up becoming a life word

#

i'd say the distinction is rarely made by most ppl

kala suno 🌌 kutemu ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) Too many people confuse sentience and sapience as well so it’s like really difficult when u get ther…

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:15 AM

#

rain lotus According to some people in the past and currently, no lmao

from talking to you, i can tell you are sentient though...

#

my usage of ‘person’ (tho i wouldnt use it for those who dont like it) has nothing to do with those who dehumanise others

#

(How the heck do i get rid of these reactions)

#

i am.

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:16 AM

#

as waso Keli said, they're fixing it

kisa/soweli Luna ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) (How the heck do i get rid of these reactions)

#

it's the tpt bot (because it's tenpo pi toki pona)

#

Yeah that’s kind of the problem with using them to describe any kind of toki pona word. Because all animals are sentient, fish are sentient, but only some animals are sapient as far as we know. But sentient as it is used in the colloquial way is really used like the definition of sapient and that’s where it gets really nasa li ike

waso : waso 🌱 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) i'd say the distinction is rarely made by most ppl 📎

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:16 AM

#

rain lotus as waso Keli said, they're fixing it

Ah, sorry

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:17 AM

#

sapience is shakily defined anyway
some vague notion of intelligence that gives ppl excuse to be shit to everything else

boreal scarab Apr 20, 2023, 5:18 AM

#

im sapiosexual

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:18 AM

#

ur mum

#

either way they're both bad words to try and define tp words with

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:19 AM

#

No, I’m not struggling to understand that. I’m aware that is a problem.

#

My point was simply how I, myself, use it, not how someone else defines things.

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:26 AM

#

systemic issues are rarely fixed by you personally not doing the bad thing
they have to be approached from the perspective of those affected, not those affecting

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:28 AM

#

rain lotus systemic issues are rarely fixed by you personally not doing the bad thing they ...

What does my interpretation of person have to do with systemic issues?

Though I should’ve chosen a way to describe things other than “sentience” (which wasn’t the right word to begin with as mentioned by kala suno) but I don’t know how I would.

#

That is not what I meant...

#

Please stop putting words into my mouth.

scarlet briarBOT Apr 20, 2023, 5:32 AM

#

➕ Gave the role No View to rats#0976 for 6 hours

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:35 AM

#

@rocky urchin, for whenever you come back,

ivory thorn Apr 20, 2023, 5:36 AM

#

ivory thorn <@456226577798135808>, for whenever you come back,

I’m sorry that I didn’t word what I meant better.

#

I should probably leave. Sorry.

#

Good day.

cedar grail Apr 20, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

ivory thorn I’m sorry that I didn’t word what I meant better.

i will figure out how to better address this when i am rested, since this person left the server now so idk what to do but ftr this behaviour is very mutable tawa mi, including this non-apology

(just so it doesn't look ignored by mods)

halcyon siren Apr 20, 2023, 10:37 AM

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cedar grail i will figure out how to better address this when i am rested, since this person...

they left the server about it

cedar grail Apr 20, 2023, 10:39 AM

#

yea

visual oracle Apr 20, 2023, 12:32 PM

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mutable?

#

oh like mute-able

cedar grail Apr 20, 2023, 1:40 PM

#

yea

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:19 PM

#

yeah to add on the way i find myself using jan most of the time (at least recently) is to talk about ethnic groups and groups of people

#

i don’t call primates or big apes jan

#

i call penguins jan because they vibe within that semantic space of “groups of people or individuals from those groups”

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:22 PM

#

ivory thorn What does my interpretation of person have to do with systemic issues? Though I...

oh my god

visual oracle Apr 20, 2023, 2:23 PM

#

I didn't use jan before to refer to anything except speaking entities/people/sometimes humans, but I'm even more inclined for that now

#

I hadn't considered the dehumanizing angle that kMimuki pointed out

urban fractal Apr 20, 2023, 2:24 PM

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floral crescent i call penguins jan because they vibe within that semantic space of “groups of p...

a i like this reasoning
i dont like the reasoning that theyre bipedal but this is fun

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:24 PM

#

yeah

#

look at em huddling togeyher

visual oracle Apr 20, 2023, 2:24 PM

#

eg

i've seen a lot of ppl claim such things and then contradict it in their usage
stuff like calling primates or big apes jan, calling penguins jan, &c
which is one of the big reasons i reject jan

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:25 PM

#

also if it was just bipedal all birds would be jan right

halcyon siren Apr 20, 2023, 2:26 PM

#

also why would a tp word have such a specific meaning

#

ig some of them do but like

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 2:26 PM

#

I think it would be funny to call all bipedal animals jan to spite Diogenes

halcyon siren Apr 20, 2023, 2:26 PM

#

it feels odd to me for jan in particular

urban fractal Apr 20, 2023, 2:26 PM

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i dont think jan for just “person” is overly specific

halcyon siren Apr 20, 2023, 2:27 PM

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rain lotus I think it would be funny to call all bipedal animals jan to spite Diogenes

https://tenor.com/view/horse-weird-run-twolegs-lateforwork-gif-6144612

Tenor

#

o lukin! ni li jan!

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 2:27 PM

#

jan

#

woman man

#

jan for “personhood” gets into some weird territory I don’t rlly have the energy to talk abt rn

jan Seli ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) i dont think jan for just “person” is overly specific

urban fractal Apr 20, 2023, 2:29 PM

#

wouldnt english have the same problem then

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 2:29 PM

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Yes

mortal imp Apr 20, 2023, 2:29 PM

#

yeah, it's an issue with the concept of "personhood" itself

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 2:29 PM

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Like..the definition of “person” and personhood is highly political and not static and there’s so much bs with it

mortal imp Apr 20, 2023, 2:29 PM

#

and how it has been used for terrible shit historically

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:29 PM

#

real

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 2:30 PM

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What if jan meant animal in general and then you specifically what kind of animal using other words

#

I don’t like that actually

blissful crag Apr 20, 2023, 2:30 PM

#

nasin musi

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:30 PM

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so my friend who is a tree isn’t a jan but wezzl is?

mortal imp Apr 20, 2023, 2:31 PM

#

if the concept of "personhood" wasn't problematic then "jan" meaning "person" wouldn't go into weird territory, but historical oppression trickles all the way down into TP

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:31 PM

#

what if jan meant “peoples”

#

(kinda how i use it)

mortal imp Apr 20, 2023, 2:32 PM

#

like, since "jan" is so strongly linked to "personhood" in a lot of speakers' minds, it feels like debating over what exactly means "jan" is just debating over what "personhood" is by proxy

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 2:33 PM

#

Coincidentally, currently in my philosophy class we are talking about free will
Which I always feel like people apply a binary to a spectrum tbh

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 2:34 PM

#

I don’t hate it I guess

lipamanka ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) what if jan meant “peoples”

mortal imp Apr 20, 2023, 2:34 PM

#

which doesn't feel too productive? like, at that point it's not a conversation over toki pona semantics anymore, and it feels awkward imo to act like it still is bc it leads to misunderstandings and suuuper problematic takes

#

I like jan for "peoples" but, like, most if not all teaching materials use it to mean "person" so separating it from personhood will be an uphill battle until that changes

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 2:35 PM

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The discussion of free will makes me really uncomfortable because there is a lot of ableism rooted in it

mortal imp Apr 20, 2023, 2:35 PM

#

same

undone crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:35 PM

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floral crescent what if jan meant “peoples”

How does it relate to someone using jan to refer to themselves? Am I necessarily part of a "peoples" to be jan?

#

(in my case, of course I am part of peoples)

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:36 PM

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so jan is closer to peoples than person, and it can refer to a singular being from a group of people, either hypothetical or a specific being who uses jan as a headnoun. this can be expanded metaphorically to describe the relationships between other groups, such as penguins huddling together, or an anthill, but doing so is pretty metaphorical

#

(here’s my proposal)

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 2:38 PM

#

I feel like that’s really kon pi nimi kulupu tbh like I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of cases with jan where it’s supposed to be used where it could just be removed, replaced with ijo, or replaced with kulupu.

mortal imp Apr 20, 2023, 2:38 PM

#

what would be the line between "jan" and "kulupu" in that proposal? I like it but I worry a bit about the whole personhood/animacy/volition/sapiency issue

blissful crag Apr 20, 2023, 2:38 PM

#

floral crescent so jan is closer to peoples than person, and it can refer to a singular being fr...

jan li jan tan kulupu tan nasin kulupu anu seme?

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:39 PM

#

i guess i’m trying to be descriptive of my own usage here and use words that don’t connect things as strongly to english concepts

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 2:39 PM

#

I have to go but I might come back to this letter with better thoughts when I can breathe lmao

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:39 PM

#

o esun pona e kon

blissful crag Apr 20, 2023, 2:43 PM

#

mi kepeken jan tawa ni: ijo li ken toki li lon poka pi ijo pi ken toki
(poka li ken mama li ken ma li ken pilin li ken ante)
ni la ijo li pana e sitelen toki la ijo ni li ken jan
mi pana e kalama uta tawa sitelen li pana e ni tawa ilo pi sitelen tawa la ijo pi kalama ni li ken jan
nasin kulupu li suli poka
taso, toki a li suli a
(poka ala la ijo li wile ala jan la mi jan ala e ona tan wile a. taso sina sona e ni, a a)

undone crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:47 PM

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floral crescent i guess i’m trying to be descriptive of my own usage here and use words that don...

jan li wile ala lon kulupu li weka tan kulupu li lon ala kulupu la... ona li kama jan ala anu seme?
ken la ona li kama kulupu pi jan wan taso
taso ni la seme li kama e seme:
jan li kama e kulupu
kulupu li kama e jan

a ona tu li ken tan ona tu

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:48 PM

#

ona li awen jan

#

jan li suli

undone crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:48 PM

#

I guess I'll have to do some reading on zoon politikon

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 2:48 PM

#

there’s a throughline with jan so not every description will describe everything and mine sure doesn’t

blissful crag Apr 20, 2023, 2:55 PM

#

mi wile e musi pi toki pona sama ni

O SONA ALA E NIMI

sona nimi li SULI ALA A la O SONA ALA E ONA
TENPO SULI LA SONA NIMI LI LON, taso tenpo ALE la PILIN nimi li nanpa wan
sina wile sona e nimi anu seme? ni la O KEPEKEN NIMI O TOKI
"nimi waso la ijo li lon sewi li tawa sewi" - toki pi nasa wasa tan jan pi """"sona"""" nimi

O LUKIN e pakala nasa mute tan jan pi "sona" nimi pi toki pona. ona li wile e pilin pona sina la ona o ANPA a:
(ni li nasin LON pi jan LON pi sona nasa)
[sitelen]

"toki a, o lukin e waso mi" [ona li weka e sike musi tawa sewi]
ona li anpa mute e mi ale

gloomy shale Apr 20, 2023, 3:00 PM

#

[li weka e linja selo tan waso] o lukin e jan mi!

marsh oak Apr 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

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i kinda need to rephrase mappo’s toki pona translation to not use jan so much

undone crescent Apr 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

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[li pana e kiwen tawa kulupu sina] o lukin e jan sina

marsh oak Apr 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

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idk how to translate furry and werewolf roles without jan as they are now tbh

#

furry -> jan soweli and werewolf -> soweli mun rn

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 3:10 PM

#

furry could be soweli? unless soweli on its own is a thing

gloomy shale Apr 20, 2023, 3:21 PM

#

taso mun la jan li kama soweli anu seme

#

la nimi jan li pona lon ni anu seme

#

soweli jan mun

rain lotusBOT Apr 20, 2023, 3:53 PM

#

i have no idea how this isn't just "looks like a bunch of humanoids"

lipamanka ↩️

[Reply to:](#1032830156676538378 message) i call penguins jan because they vibe within that semantic space of “groups of people or individuals…

undone crescent Apr 20, 2023, 3:56 PM

#

I think the idea is less "these penguins are humanoid-shaped" and more "these pinguins group together"
A bee hive would then be jan
Maybe fairy rings? (Unsure, because they'd be more one organism, right?)
naked mole rats etc.

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 3:57 PM

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rain lotus i have no idea how this isn't just "looks like a bunch of humanoids"

it’s about how they interact and work together, not what they look like

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 3:57 PM

#

undone crescent I think the idea is less "these penguins are humanoid-shaped" and more "these pi...

ab yes this

#

it’s REALLY hard to play around with jan though is most of what i’m complaining about because it’s so connected with individual identity

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 4:02 PM

#

undone crescent I think the idea is less "these penguins are humanoid-shaped" and more "these pi...

I’m pretty sure fairy rings are one organism

undone crescent Apr 20, 2023, 4:03 PM

#

that's what I wanted to get at, yes... but the way fairy rings are huddled together might give the impression of the same kind of togetherness

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 4:05 PM

#

Oh I added a than there that wasn’t there

#

But then wouldn’t cells of a multicellular organism be jan?

undone crescent Apr 20, 2023, 4:07 PM

#

Well, I'd assume there's more to it than "they're all together"
it's a more specific kind of togetherness, that resembles more social interaction than moving as one entity

#

which can still apply to multicellular organisms
but is less the impression I would get when looking at it

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 4:08 PM

#

I do like the idea that jan scales up and down

floral crescent Apr 20, 2023, 4:09 PM

#

read the sequel to a wrinkle in time

#

maybe

frank star Apr 20, 2023, 4:17 PM

#

I have a long time ago

#

I don’t remember it that much

#

I know there was mitochondria in one of them

raven ibex Apr 20, 2023, 7:45 PM

#

older dictionaries define jan as, among other things, "being"

#

so you could say that a soweli is jan mu

#

I like that nasin

halcyon siren Apr 20, 2023, 9:00 PM

#

non-soweli jan can certainly mu tho, imo

smoky temple Apr 21, 2023, 2:38 PM

#

kin la sona mi la:
[kepeken ..] kepe
[kepeken :] kepeken
anu
[tenpo ..] ten
[tenpo :] tenpo

floral crescent Apr 21, 2023, 6:17 PM

#

https://lipamanka.gay/weasel/liminal-weasel

lipamanka's website

liminal weasel

weasels travel between worlds, don't you know?

vernal ore Apr 21, 2023, 6:53 PM

#

thanks, i learned a lot

floral crescent Apr 21, 2023, 10:17 PM

#

https://forms.gle/fcr2ctFw4FA2omg97

Google Docs

Place and toki pona

HEY YOU THERE! You live in a PLACE right?

Hey! this is a pretty interesting topic, please fill out the form if you are able!

#

posting it here too

#

and also in lipu

undone crescent Apr 22, 2023, 7:10 AM

#

You also put it on Reddit, but made the Discord tag field mandatory

floral crescent Apr 22, 2023, 7:12 AM

#

undone crescent You also put it on Reddit, but made the Discord tag field mandatory

in the policies it says you can put an email address if you don’t have discord i thin

undone crescent Apr 22, 2023, 7:13 AM

#

a
That's because I didn't read it all the way isn't it 😄

floral crescent Apr 22, 2023, 7:13 AM

#

yea i mean i would much prefer discord

floral crescent Apr 25, 2023, 8:13 PM

#

not sure how this thesis is

Because its first two decades of evolution took place almost entirely on the internet, toki pona has been and is developing in a different way than natural languages do.

#

(this is for a college assignment)

visual oracle Apr 25, 2023, 8:15 PM

#

seems like a decent thesis

floral crescent Apr 25, 2023, 8:15 PM

#

yay !

#

alright one sec lemme write the rest of the STRUCTURE

#

the best thing about this assignment is that it can be in 1st person because in social sciences it's considered epic and cool to explain how you got your data by humanizing the people you're getting it from

cedar grail Apr 25, 2023, 8:20 PM

#

you should humanize your data by getting it from me and mentioning in your paper how pretty i am

floral crescent Apr 25, 2023, 8:21 PM

#

I will manage to find a way to do that

#

did you. fill the form out tho

visual oracle Apr 25, 2023, 8:26 PM

#

mi ni taso it was very confusing to me

#

I had a hard time answering it

cedar grail Apr 25, 2023, 8:27 PM

#

floral crescent did you. fill the form out tho

no. do it anyway ❤️

#

i can fill it in now i think

floral crescent Apr 25, 2023, 8:27 PM

#

cedar grail i can fill it in now i think

do it >:(

floral crescent Apr 25, 2023, 8:27 PM

#

visual oracle I had a hard time answering it

which is interesting! I wonder if it's because toki ponists don't think about place that much

floral crescent Apr 25, 2023, 9:17 PM

#

paper is going well!

#

oh fuck I am not even halfway done and I've reached the minimum! FUCK!!

#

oopsies

jagged osprey Apr 25, 2023, 9:18 PM

#

have a good paper

floral crescent Apr 25, 2023, 9:19 PM

#

Chose one of the research prompts, then write up the results using the standard structure of a research paper (1000-1500 words)
I have gotten through question three and I'm at 849 words

#

I guess that's fine

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:00 AM

#

<@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> anyone here willing to read my first draft and give me feedback? (preferably someone with a lot of toki pona experience)

brave rune Apr 26, 2023, 2:00 AM

#

ily

#

i can't rn tho :,( im writing my own research paper

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> anyone here willing to read my f...

which paper /gen

vernal ore Apr 26, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

the first draft of the book?

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

i also have Thoughts about endonyms in tokpon

nocturne wasp Apr 26, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

does 5 years of tp nonsery and then almost a full decade break count lol?

#

(probably not) but idk

vernal ore Apr 26, 2023, 2:02 AM

#

vernal ore the first draft of the book?

no nvm i was ignoring the above messages

#

oopsies

nocturne wasp Apr 26, 2023, 2:04 AM

#

wait is this first draft of that linkustics thing?

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 2:04 AM

#

lipamanka ur name is displaying a final mem in non final positions

#

and its despairful

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:05 AM

#

yes

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:05 AM

#

slender geyser and its despairful

:)

halcyon siren Apr 26, 2023, 2:05 AM

#

destroying my ability to read things despair

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:05 AM

#

I love me a good shlos-mem

#

it says lipamanka!

#

see

#

the one on the left looks like an l

#

and then the next one looks like an i

#

and the next one looks like a p

#

the next one looks like an a

#

the next two together look like an m

#

the next one looks like an a

#

the next one looks like an n

#

the next one looks kinda like a k

#

and the last one looks like an a!

halcyon siren Apr 26, 2023, 2:06 AM

#

oh my god

#

ow

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:06 AM

#

:)

unkempt dome Apr 26, 2023, 2:06 AM

#

floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> anyone here willing to read my f...

I'd be happy to try reading it but if it's on a deadline I can only guarantee feedback within the next 24 hours (though may be within next 12). Also as you may know I am proficient but my nasin may be a touch old lol

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 2:06 AM

#

hey lipamanka i hope u are rich enough to afford a hundred beds and then get a fever and you are bouncing from bed to bed to bed

halcyon siren Apr 26, 2023, 2:07 AM

#

ig if you squint at it the nickname is readable

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:07 AM

#

unkempt dome I'd be happy to try reading it but if it's on a deadline I can only guarantee fe...

you are definitely on my list of people who I consider experienced enough to read it

#

I will send it

halcyon siren Apr 26, 2023, 2:07 AM

#

mgtmdchmkon

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 2:07 AM

#

may i read /gen if u dont want me to i get it

unkempt dome Apr 26, 2023, 2:07 AM

#

floral crescent you are definitely on my list of people who I consider experienced enough to rea...

pona 🤩

vital eagle Apr 26, 2023, 2:08 AM

#

How much experience is hoped for?

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:08 AM

#

knows a bit about how to write a research paper and/or enough about usage of toki pona

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 2:09 AM

#

ugh i hate fauxryllic this is worse

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:09 AM

#

it is especially bad bc it is harder to read sdklfj

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 2:13 AM

#

ive decided to write it down to show to ppl and ur making me write hebrew LTR all the yiddish curses upon ye

#

ok ill shut up abt this

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:15 AM

#

AAA FORMATTING

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 2:33 AM

#

okay I now have two reviewers

#

(and they are peers)

#

(but idk if this is Peer-Reviewing™️)

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 3:26 AM

#

for my next trick i’ll be studying the lexical semantics of animal words (again)

rocky urchin Apr 26, 2023, 8:44 AM

#

floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> anyone here willing to read my f...

Depends how long it is, so no promises

visual oracle Apr 26, 2023, 11:34 AM

#

floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> <@&1085723430818684958> anyone here willing to read my f...

Me

uncut rivet Apr 26, 2023, 11:59 AM

#

sorry i forgot (couldnt see the full name. typed that in phone asdf)

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 11:00 PM

#

<@&1061183612709515354> expect another form and research paper about animal words some time soon

strong bramble Apr 26, 2023, 11:00 PM

#

YIPPEE

slender geyser Apr 26, 2023, 11:00 PM

#

owe

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 11:00 PM

#

this one will be a quantitative study partially

strong bramble Apr 26, 2023, 11:00 PM

#

love the hebrew username

nocturne wasp Apr 26, 2023, 11:00 PM

#

wowee

strong bramble Apr 26, 2023, 11:00 PM

#

i need to learn it to impress my best friend

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

#

strong bramble love the hebrew username

it’s not hebrew it’s cursed hebrew (there are several final forms in the middle and beginning of the word)

visual oracle Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

#

he brewed what?

strong bramble Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

#

floral crescent it’s not hebrew it’s cursed hebrew (there are several final forms in the middle ...

😱

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

#

wow jan Deni antisemitism arc (this is a joke)

strong bramble Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

#

visual oracle he brewed what?

i giggled

strong bramble Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

#

floral crescent wow jan Deni antisemitism arc (this is a joke)

woah 🤯

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

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(jan Deni that was funny i’m stealing it)

visual oracle Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

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sina pona

strong bramble Apr 26, 2023, 11:01 PM

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me too

visual oracle Apr 26, 2023, 11:02 PM

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floral crescent wow jan Deni antisemitism arc (this is a joke)

what's an tisemitism? Don't you mean "a" tismitism? [ok I'm done now]

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 11:02 PM

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you are amazing

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never change

frank star Apr 26, 2023, 11:02 PM

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Autismism

floral crescent Apr 26, 2023, 11:03 PM

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i will be using keywords and key concepts from my previous animal word survey to generate a lexical semantic study

visual oracle Apr 26, 2023, 11:03 PM

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wawa pona

rocky urchin Apr 27, 2023, 12:55 AM

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visual oracle what's an tisemitism? Don't you mean "a" tismitism? [ok I'm done now]

jan Deni I hate every single aspect of you
(but also like don't change that would make me sad)

floral crescent Apr 27, 2023, 1:31 AM

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currently getting distracted by an entirely new field of linguistics

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<@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers quickly describe what jan is in english

real nymph Apr 27, 2023, 1:35 AM

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||person, human or not - humanlike - maybe sapient - personal||

quartz hill Apr 27, 2023, 1:36 AM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers **quickly describe wha...

||an intelligent being in the context of society||

slender geyser Apr 27, 2023, 1:36 AM

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||jan is person, or person-like; if it quacks like a jan it's a jan. Usually, ability to think like a person is more relevant than visual similarity thought both are relevant. The greatest debate in this corner has of tokipona is "are monsters from undertale jan? They think and walk like jan but are distinctly Not Human||

eager patio Apr 27, 2023, 1:36 AM

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||for me, jan is not only human or person, it is also any identity/personality/etc thing??? idk how to describe that, in Russian I would say личность||

rain lotusBOT Apr 27, 2023, 1:39 AM

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||person, a personified thing, or any being that wants to be called a jan||

stark epoch Apr 27, 2023, 1:40 AM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers **quickly describe wha...

||alive, concious being that is not entirely a plant or an animal||

proper garden Apr 27, 2023, 1:41 AM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers **quickly describe wha...

||a jan is a claimer of the term jan (all definitions of jan suck because either you are not describing jan as its used or describing jan in a way that excludes a bunch of people. "intelligent being within society" is terrible because intelligence isn't real, "person" is terrible because its reliant on legal or normative authority over self-identification, etc.)||

frank star Apr 27, 2023, 1:41 AM

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||a being that acts as one of a whole, among similar, but not identical, beings, each of which may have a separate role in contributing to the whole, as well as having wills of it's own. maybe||

rocky urchin Apr 27, 2023, 1:46 AM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers **quickly describe wha...

||headnoun used a lot , word for "person" , refers to people when used as a modifier ??? like kulupu jan iirc||

unkempt dome Apr 27, 2023, 1:46 AM

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||A human, a person. Historically "supposed" to be any creature with personal agency and portrayed with an abstract human communication system more or less (e.g. animals in kids storybooks that talk like jan) but I have personally never seen it used that way with authors usually opting for the soweli etc headnoun, ergo, a member of homo sapiens. However, I would think the meaning of jan in practice is more akin to the mental construct of a self typically associated with human personhood, one soma (body+mind) of which may be comprised of many instances, reinforcing that notion of "some mental thing that believes it is itself" as opposed to a body holding said mind. In such a way, jan may refer to a body of the homo sapiens species, or to an individual mind in said type of body (though possibly extending to other species of hominid if they were alive today).||

proper garden Apr 27, 2023, 1:48 AM

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||alternative funny answer: a featherless biped||

rain lotusBOT Apr 27, 2023, 1:51 AM

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||a being or group of beings that share a common trait or culture, often work together, and generally have distinct individuals from other beings in its group.||

floral crescent Apr 27, 2023, 1:55 AM

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thanks everyone this should be enough

unkempt dome Apr 27, 2023, 2:01 AM

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So my friend said this quote: ||"I jan, therefore I'jam"|| as a summary of all these things I told them haha

brave rune Apr 27, 2023, 2:08 AM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers **quickly describe wha...

||the English word "person" (with all the complicated philosophical baggage that comes with it) + anything that acts like, looks like, or otherwise appears to be a person + any intelligent agent||

brave rune Apr 27, 2023, 2:10 AM

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floral crescent thanks everyone this should be enough

noooooooo u have to include mine >:(

floral crescent Apr 27, 2023, 2:11 AM

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sldfj

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I have decided to ensmallen my scope to JUST akesi for now

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I will do the animal words one by one with the same methodology for each

maiden light Apr 27, 2023, 2:13 AM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers **quickly describe wha...

||jan is anything human-like or personified.||

echo lion Apr 27, 2023, 2:32 AM

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|| jan is anything that thinks it’s jan! ||

floral crescent Apr 27, 2023, 2:33 AM

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echo lion || jan is anything that thinks it’s jan! ||

||jan is anything that thinks he's a jan /misogynistic||

echo lion Apr 27, 2023, 2:34 AM

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despair

floral crescent Apr 27, 2023, 2:36 AM

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https://forms.gle/gb2xjJpFDSGTMNXX8

Google Docs

akesi!

Hey, toki ponist! Do YOU like animals? Yes? okay cool!

I'm going to be analyzing the LEXICAL SEMANTICS of the word AKESI! basically: I will be collecting quantitative data on what important factors go into something being an akesi. The words here are based on responses to a previous form I sent out.

halcyon siren Apr 27, 2023, 2:47 AM

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floral crescent <@&1061183612709515354> real quick ||spoil|| your answers **quickly describe wha...

||a person, more or less, in the broadest sense. i try not to think about it much more deeply than “an agent that is capable of consciously making decisions, communicating clearly, forming self identity, and acting upon the world”. when not being used in reference to a specific person (in which case it’s based on how they’d like to be referred to), the relative importance of each trait is largely left to context.||

#LIPAMANKA PI FONT ALA