umbral cedar
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nAn42exb_rGNzXCsUhBvRKzQNNYSc8CeHGei07a9kDc/edit?usp=sharing Basic medical made by Currently
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cXKfW1bEJz-Z0i8dfe6UULuAC0cOaBamtB2jn1Osj-E/edit Advanced Medical made by me
All tested and up to date as of, 10/24/22
remote socket
A bit for your clotting info
Self Clotting
So you get hit, you get 2x scrapes, the system uses up two clot factors to close those (you start with 10), and now you have eight factors left for any other wounds. If a wound is present, the clotting system will try to clot it until it runs out of factors, so generally you can tell if a patient is out because no more clots are being generated (they generate every eight seconds)
Clots are replenished through plasma which add more factors directly, 250s add another 5, 500 add another 10, 1000 add another 15. A patient can only carry a max of 20 factors at a time so if you give someone 2x 1000ml of plasma, it will only give a patient a 20 clotting factors, not the full 30 (this is to prevent cheesing the system too hard)
Note: For Arma functions the self clots are field dressings.
@umbral cedar
Also Self clots in act as a field dressing TXA turns stabilize by turning it into a quickclot
umbral cedar
Interesting, I know some stuff is disabled in a weird way on this server. CPR works completely different from the 7cav training server, and It also works different if you ask how it works on the Ace Pharmacy server. There is several differences like that on this server. All of my testing has confirmed what ace pharmacy said. I know that clotting factors were changed in the most recent ace update though. That update was weird in the fact that it changed some things, but some of the changes weren't rolled to the live server. I tested before and after the clotting changes, and it seemed to be the same. I'll do some more testing later, and I'll change (or not) depending on my findings
@remote socket ^
remote socket
The clotting factors and the way the plasma works is full coded as is there is no setting to change that part with the amount of plasma to that refills the clotting factor
umbral cedar
Same for CPR, yet CPR still works completely different
remote socket
So this part "Clots are replenished through plasma which add more factors directly, 250s add another 5, 500 add another 10, 1000 add another 15. A patient can only carry a max of 20 factors at a time so if you give someone 2x 1000ml of plasma, it will only give a patient a 20 clotting factors, not the full 30 (this is to prevent cheesing the system too hard)" this has not been changed since clotting factors was placed into ace pharm
umbral cedar
When I read about clotting factors on the ace pharmacy server. I read that they were a base of 10, and added 10 immediately after plasma.
umbral cedar
I can't find where I read that, but that is my bad. I'll update the doc now
remote socket
All good I asked Dev just now and anything that doesnt have a setting is 1-1 to what my version is for 7Cav as we use a different workshop file
umbral cedar
That's interesting. I wonder why cpr is fucked then
umbral cedar
Works different from what I read on ace pharmacy. Check the advanced medical doc
remote socket
Well CPR is setting dependent
umbral cedar
What setting would that be under?
I've never found a setting that talks about how timers function. I've seen the actual timer setting, chance settings, etc
umbral cedar
That's the exact same settings we have. Still CPR doesn't function in the way it's described on the ace pharmacy server
remote socket
@rough wharf You might be able to shed light
remote socket
That's the exact same settings we have. Still CPR doesn't function in the way it...
So by not function do you mean the CPR chance arent working right?
umbral cedar
I mean that the way our timers work are completely different
From what I've read on ace pharmacy
Admins from this server have told me that none of the mods affect the medical system
remote socket
So the CPR effect on the timer doesnt add it slows down the timer. I'm just finding out how much it slows it by so bare with me
umbral cedar
When Currently and I tested ourselves we found what is on the doc
and we did a lot of testing
umbral cedar
umbral cedar
So you was able to keep doing CPR forever and did not die
We did a max of 10 rounds
remote socket
I know CPR slows the timer not heard anything about it resetting it
remote socket
If the base timer is 5 mins that would make sense if CPR was done for that amount of time
umbral cedar
We tested this within a week of us asking
umbral cedar
If the base timer is 5 mins that would make sense if CPR was done for that amoun...
Yes
remote socket
Yeah that seems fine then in that case
umbral cedar
But it's still different
we did 6 rounds and the time till death was 6 minutes and 30 seconds
we did 2 rounds and it was 5 minutes and 30 seconds
remote socket
Yeah because the chance to slow down the death time only happens if the CPR was successful if you won't always get the same amount of time till death
umbral cedar
It wasn't a chance though
we tested it many times, like I said. Every time it added 15 seconds to the timer
Now if you mean that it slows down the timer and it will be 30 seconds minus the 15 of doing the cpr. It's the same, but it was not a chance, and there was no resetting of any timers
remote socket
Well the amount of time to do CPR will always be what the setting is
umbral cedar
yes
remote socket
Okay better way to word this. The function that you are doing what is the result you are looking to get
umbral cedar
?
remote socket
I'm trying to work out what is the issue you are having. You able to go into a voice chat would that be easier?
As the time till death will always be different depending on how quickly CPR is started and by what rated person they are.
Theres not a huge amount of settings for CPR only really whats in the base ace medical (None Pharm)
umbral cedar
dms^
remote socket
sure
wary bobcat
@umbral cedar when it comes to flow rates, for example, does Nitro increase flow rate by 6-7 mL/s or to 6-7 mL/s? I'm assuming you meant to in the doc.
umbral cedar
To
forest merlin
Despite having EMT-B, for some reason I cannot grasp the concept of Ace adv medical lmfao
unkempt elbow
Simple, stop the bleeding start the breathing
If you remember that you are leaps and bounds ahead of 90% of the community
prisma jetty
With some blood transfusions in certain cases, but yeah that's kinda how it goes.
sturdy loom
The first document which is labeled as “KC Advanced Medical” when you click on it just shows the following text “Last updated 11/20/22 by Adam”. And the second document is a quick ref. Could you update or clarify the documents please?
unkempt elbow
The first document which is labeled as “KC Advanced Medical” when you click on i...
Yeah the first one guy got pressed about something outside of this server, and left mad and deleted his stuff.
It’s all community made, nothing we can do about it
sturdy loom
Damn! And understood
void quarry
Despite having EMT-B, for some reason I cannot grasp the concept of Ace adv medi...
I’m the chief of clinical care for a county wide EMS system, I’ve been a paramedic for years. I assure you the problem is with ace medical not you.
I clicked on this in an attempt to understand the system, and I can assure you it is wildly broken and inaccurate.
upper smelt
Well it's a game and it's a mod that tries to adapt irl medical over a nonexistant medical system. The basis is basically stop the bleeding, get fluids and heart rate up then wake up.
void quarry
@upper smelt I think it does a decent job, with tweaks though it could be wildly hyper realistic.
The drugs are all there, the fluids are all there. It could be perfect, but it’s just missing the mark in some rather large ways.
upper smelt
Yeah well there's another medical mod that is even more in depth, forgot it's name currently
void quarry
As in outsider, I’d love to see this community adopt something like that.
upper smelt
I think KAT is unlikely because we're milsim lite
void quarry
And honestly you’re right. That’s probably the line.
But holy shit that makes me wet. You want your 1-9 and banshee units actually do some real work? That’s how you fucking do it.
upper smelt
Would make Banshee more relevant with CASEVACs but the downtime for catching a random round to the head is already long enough for the casual player(s)
void quarry
I saw people on this thread say “a single banshee member can handle a mass cas by themselves”
upper smelt
Depends how mass cas a mass cas is
If they caught mortars or artillery shells to their feet most likely you're only able to save one or two
void quarry
That in itself shows me that this medical system and the use of them is not working correctly from an external perspective.
There’s not a single way in hell you’d send 1 guy for 3 patients.
upper smelt
If it's a squad of dudes who simply caught a bad case of 5.45 and 7.62 I think you're able to save 3-4 out of 10 by yourself
void quarry
Which is wild
And stands as a testimony to why a more advanced medical system would make sense.
upper smelt
I mean I'd rather be saved after an insane/idiotic push than go back to FOB lul
void quarry
For sure! So you gotta find a balance.
But I guess my point is, if you’re going to dedicate people to this unit. You might as well provide them with the correct amount of work.
upper smelt
There's a lot of sacrifices made to create an infantry focused authentic milsim lite experience. For banshee and 1-9 that's ACE Pharmacy instead of KAT. For Butcher that's insanely high costs. For CAS it's unpreferrable loadouts. We make do with what we're given
void quarry
Fair enough! I did frame my perspective as *from an outsider purposefully. I really don’t know how it works yet, but once I see a few days of it, I’m sure I’ll understand.
upper smelt
It's crazy how much one's perspective changes after they play a good bit on the server. It's really a shock and you have to adapt. That's the fun part, what makes me come back again and again
remote socket
Hey @void quarry Ace Pharm has a discord you can get it from the workshop page. I bet MJ would love any suggestions
void quarry
I will absolutely reach out and talk to him!
Thanks for the suggestion @remote socket
void quarry
@remote socket "- I know. I'm AEMT certified and a pre-med student. I know the cringe factor. I'm sorry you have to experience it with me too"
It looks like Mj is fully aware of the situation and is doing his best to navigate the issues I would bring to his attention. I just read the above quote in his FAQ
I figured it best to not bother the poor guy lol.
remote socket
He has medical background hes studying at the same time. He makes the mod. Hes always happy to hear suggestions so feel free to wack anything into the gen chat.
I bug him all the time since we in same milsim aha
Tho for note I have no medical background what so ever
void quarry
I see what he’s doing, at least I think I do. He’s trying to make it a game of stabilization. What goes up, must come down. What is low, must be brought up. The inherent problem is that humans don’t really work that way.
He’s basically trying to make an arcade game out of physiology.
It’s a hard task.
remote socket
So the aim of Ace pharm is a system for medics only so nothing really changes for the normal player
I wouldnt say hes trying to make it arcade but Arma 3 is a weird thing to for medical even more so when its one person. I think hes trying to be as realistic as he can with the ability he has and I guess what he knows himself
But then again only medical I know is what I see in either Kat or Ace pharm so I have no other reference
void quarry
Okay so let me explain: In the acute penetrating trauma patient tachycardia (high HR) is a good thing. High BP is a good thing. These are compensatory methods of human physiology that exist to keep us alive.
Yet this mod wants us to “stabilize” patient by giving nitro / adenosine to lower their heart rate / BP so we can wake them up.
Considering MJ is an active AEMT and medical student, he knows this. He is fully aware of it. But he likely wants the medical side to be fun, to invole more problem solving for the medic. So he gives them ntg and adeno so they can play.
remote socket
Yeah Ace is more of a inbetween Basic ace medical and Kat medical
void quarry
I didn’t mean “Arcady” in a bad way. I just meant that he wants there to be this legitimate mini-game.
remote socket
trying to be realistic to a point but like ya said also fun with problem solving
void quarry
Exactly!
remote socket
Its a shame karma doesnt use the advanced fracture system
void quarry
I’m extremely new to this server, but I’ve been told over and over again that it’s “mil-sim lite” and that tracks.
prisma jetty
Yeah, because that's kinda the intention for the public lib server
I know, unfortunate
void quarry
It would be really difficult for anyone without a medical background to understand how to treat patients.
So I value that.
prisma jetty
I would love to see a detailed medical system but that would heavily impact new player approachability
I never pretended this was an accurate medical system 😂
void quarry
Absolutely, and a community can not grow that way.
prisma jetty
I have been on the receiving end of some horrible wounds
remote socket
Welll I mean the advanced fractures is a step 1 - step 2 - step 3 can't really go wrong tbh
prisma jetty
and I definetely didn't get bandaged and stitched just like that and be like 'okie we good now'
void quarry
I mean fair. But I think there is an in between. I just don’t think that’s a reality for a sever like this. And that’s okay.
prisma jetty
ya know, for starters I cleaned the wound to prevent infection 😂 and then actually got heavy amounts of treatment and had to have the limb immobilised so it wouldn't move kekw
remote socket
Arma 4 amputation 😄
void quarry
Hypeee
rough wharf
It would be really difficult for anyone without a medical background to understa...
"Alright BANSHEE members, time for your perms exam. First question is about the krebs cycle!"
I will find a way to make it happen, and no one can stop me 😆
void quarry
@rough wharf …I like you. We should be friends.
Make it so that all banshee medics have to have a bachelors or higher in a medical profession or prior/current credentials as a SOCM/Pj.
Make it so hyper realistic that it takes months to get banshee perms because the medical system is so fucked in-depth if you do slightly the wrong thing it murders the patient.
remote socket
"Alright BANSHEE members, time for your perms exam. First question is about the ...
maz stop making me have to google stuff
rough wharf
maz stop making me have to google stuff
DO NOT GOOGLE THE KREBS CYCLE
Save yourself at least a week of misery and suffering
void quarry
maz stop making me have to google stuff
I will teach you, but you’re def buying me lunch first.
knotty heart
Hey the initial Google Doc link goes to a blank doc
void quarry
@knotty heart sadly a known issue. The user who wrote it alt f 4’d out of here and deleted it in a hissy fit.
At least that’s my understanding.
knotty heart
Did no one save a copy?
mossy cave
It’s all community made, nothing we can do about it
If anyone else edited the document at the time it was deleted, you can back track the version history on google docs. That is the great thing on google docs is you can reverse version histories.
They just had to have editing perms when the new version was made.
unkempt elbow
If anyone else edited the document at the time it was deleted, you can back trac...
They didn’t
wide arch
Question about the clotting factors: Is the "+x" value tied to each volume bag or the volume itself entering the patient's system?
To reword the problem, would a patient get +10 when a 500ml is attached to the IV or would they have +10 over time or after all 500ml left the bag and entered the patient?
sturdy loom
Good question I don’t remember seeing a by volume over time formula in the code but I could be wrong
remote socket
5 for 250, 10 for 500 and 15 for 100 a person can have a max of 20 clotting factors
@sturdy loom
woops @wide arch
If that what you was after
sturdy loom
5 for 250, 10 for 500 and 15 for 100 a person can have a max of 20 clotting fact...
Yes I know that but he’s asking if it’s all at once or over time
magic sigil
