Does the subconciousnes of the user affect certain abilities?

[raven token]

What I mean by that is does the world view of the user affect how the ability works jst like in jujutsu kaisen?

2 Examples I could give being:
if king crimson makes the user intangible during time erase, what would count as part of the user? it seems like obviously clothing but then how can the stand differentiate between clothing and just in general things very close on the users body, also what counts as an attack and what doesnt? couldnt diavolo just put his hand through the enemies skull during time erase since hes intangible and then resume time?

Crazy Diamond restores things back, but what counts as their original state? could he one shot anybody by restoring them back to atoms (I am not good in physics, dont get angry if this is wrong💔)

My initial answer was the users own subconciousnes and what he/she deems as (in king crimsons case for example) part of their body, I would be happy to know yall thoughts on this

[hearty grail]

From what i understand in Jjba, Stands follow "soul logic," not physics. Since a Stand is a part of your mind, the rules are set by how you subconsciously see the world

Take King crimson, the intangibility covers whatever Diavolo thinks of as "himself." His brain naturally includes his clothes and gear in that category, so they phase with him. He cant reach inside someones head and resume time because, during the skip, hes like a ghost watching a movie. To actually touch anything, he has to kinda like "re-connect" to reality, which makes him solid again

With Crazy diamond, Josuke doesnt think about atoms, he just has a mental "blueprint" of what something looks like when its fixed. His Stand just follows that gut feeling. You can tell his subconscious is in charge because when he’s blinded by rage, that mental blueprint gets distorted, that's how he accidentally fused a guy into a rock. He "fixed" him, but his angry brain messed up the image of what "fixed" should look like.

(This is just how i understood it though. Could be wrong)

[gloomy night]

how the specifics of a stand works is more just the details of its power. you can't trick diavolo into bringing a weapon with him when he erases time by believing its part of his clothes. there's some unstated rule on what the stand counts as its user and what happens if he resumes time while his body is inside something.

for crazy diamond, the "original state" of an object is just what they were when they were at full health, healing them back to that version. which is why josuke cannot heal okuyasu's father; he's completely healthy by medical standards, so there is nothing to "heal" for josuke.

once josuke heals someone back to the "full health" state, he can't keep going and keep reverting them. the most he can do is turn a hardened solid back into its original liquid state.

but what's stated is that a stand is a person's subconscious ability.

you can't alter the rules of your stand by simply believing that you can.
but if your subconscious is wavering and uncommitted, your stand's power will be dulled.
which is why only a user like ciocolatta could use green day at its max power, because his subconscious feels no remorse to killing and allows the ability to operate completely unhindered

[raven token]

what counts as full health though? obviously a healthy body for a human but what about a mineral for example?

[raven token]

thats what i thought too

[gloomy night]

usually its most intact form, like if its a broken piece of a photo then it can be fixed up until it becomes a full photo, but he can't turn the paper back into a tree

after a certain point, an object is considered standalone and you can't just bring it back to where it came from. he can't heal someone back to their mother's womb

[raven token]

Yea and my initial idea was that the subconciousness of the user judges the most intact form of an object

[gloomy night]

if you break a rock and pull out the mineral, he can fix the mineral back into the rock. but if the mineral is processed and put into a diamond necklace, after a while the necklace is treated as its own object, and if you break the necklace and fix it, the mineral gets fixed with the necklace instead of returning back to the mines

[raven token]

depending on how josuke views the world, jujutsu kaisen has it too dismantle is a cutting technique sukuna lived in the heian era so he thinks of it as using a big invisible knife, for yuji its more like scissors

[gloomy night]

stand ability rules are pretty set in stone and users can't change the rules of the abilities by changing their minds, so its prob not to do with their mental state and more of it being weird arbitrary rules for the stand itself

[raven token]

I dont mean their mind i mean their subconciousness, something they cant change

[gloomy night]

the only stands that we've seen change over time according to the user's growth is ACT stands, and maybe like stands with secret abilities that the users just didn't know they had. and we've seen stands change users without affecting how its rules work, eventhough different people have different subconscious values

[autumn jay]

@gloomy night, your Hamon Power is now 6!

[raven token]

I mean stands that can be transferred over would probaly be special cases

also we saw an example of the 2 of the same stand looking different, hermit purple

both jonathan and joseph use it yet they still have slight differences

[raven token]

dio in jonathans body used it*

[gloomy night]

I think specific rules like "what counts as an object for killer queen" would be hard baked into the stand itself, rather than based on what the user thinks. because it doesn't seem likely that josuke could reduce people to atoms by simply changing his mindset on things

[raven token]

yea core concepts of stands definetly dont change

but little details and even stand designs do change

[gloomy night]

they're pretty much used the same, dio doesn't need to hit the camera because he has superhuman speed with insane pull-out game

[raven token]

if you count the AU killer queen and normal killer queen the same stand then one has explosions that atomize people while the other user thinks of the explosions as actual ones and uses it as such

[gloomy night]

jojolion killer queen can spawn like 8000 sheer heart attacks so they're def not treated as the same stand

[raven token]

that could also be the ability changing depending on the user tho

[gloomy night]

they have the same design and bomb theme but their abilities are different

its never directly said that its the exact same stand but the only difference being their owners

i think the stand abilities are based on the user's personality, but finnicky rules like what counts as (x) is hard baked into the stand and doesn't depend on the user's mentality

[raven token]

yea

[autumn jay]

@raven token, your Hamon Power is now 5!

[gloomy night]

there's no jjk moment where giorno realizes that life is a product of the soul so therefore he can create souls, but since the life energy he's using to create souls is his own he can therefore alter the shape of his own soul to turn it into those lifeforms, and then he uses that information to change the boundary of his soul and gain every stand's power by copying the shape of everyone's soul

[raven token]

true

[gloomy night]

unlike jjk, stand users have a very fixed ability where the rules can't be changed with a sudden realization abt how a concept works

the only way for a stand to change is to actually change its ability

(unless the user is a dumbass that doesn't know he had an extra ability this whole time)

[raven token]

also what are ur thoughts on time erasure vs wonder of u

Do u think king crimson wouldnt be affected by calamity

[gloomy night]

i think since time erasure puts diavolo outside the limits of fate, diavolo would be immune to the physical attacks of calamity during erasure.

but since he can't attack during time erasure, he loses anyway cus the moment he ends erasure to strike, he just gets bodied instantly

wonder of u has shown that even if u attack him within 1cm of his face, you'll lose anyway

[raven token]

would timestop work on wonder of u in that case

since everything inside timestop happens in 0 seconds real time

[gloomy night]

calamity is a law of nature, just like gravity and friction and stuff. so since timestop stops all natural laws of the universe, it might be able to halt calamity

[raven token]

oh alright

although I think anything that the user touches in timestop unfreezes for a split second

we saw kakyoins blood spill when he got impaled

[gloomy night]

calamity only attacks via external things hitting u, and there's not rlly anything that can hurt you when everything is standing still anyway

[raven token]

knives also traveled a bit before getting frozen

[gloomy night]

yea timestop actions work in a weird way where dio can start a cause but the effect happens when time resumes. dio can throw a knife and the knife will fly forward a bit and stay in the air, but it will only shoot out when time resumes

and when jotaro starts a fire by rubbing the wood, a puff of smoke comes out during the timestop, but the fire only erupts when time resumes

[raven token]

also i saw this theory that timestops time limit of 9 seconds (in dios case) only goes down if the user makes a move, if he just stands still and monolouges he could do it as long as he wants

[gloomy night]

nah cus jotaro's timestop went down mid-monologue eventhough he was just standing there

[raven token]

the reason for that being that the user can choose whether to freeze themselves too or not

[gloomy night]

its just manga time where things happen at a very inconsistent and weird pace for the sake of dramatic storytelling

realistically they're doing all that thinking in actual fractions of seconds

[raven token]

yea

[gloomy night]

its how pucci was able to stun jotaro into wasting his timestop, cus he set up random distractions to keep him wasting time dealing with things that aren't pucci

the final timestop wouldn't work if jotaro could pause timestop at any point to think