jojolion

[minor ore]

There are guard rails outside my house

[analog skiff]

part 3 right before second darby, vanilla ice, and dio is just "there are stand users outside my house"

[thorny grove]

Who does he fight and lose to who poses a greater threat after Part 8? Part 9. there is no point in arguing because i know im right when youre just spitting out opinions about what YOU feel. what you feel doesnt matter. Part 9 is objectively a main villain.
Notice how youre not even saying what the other guy is saying. youre all not being objective

[analog skiff]

tooru has mad zoomer energy tho

[minor ore]

There are Stand users outside my house

There are Stand users inside my house

There is a Stand user in my water tower

[minor ore]

he’s true!

[minor ore]

Yeah he’s a zoomer fuck boy

[analog skiff]

i wonder how tf rock human age works

like did poor tom just come out as an old man-baby thing

since tooru looks the exact same when yasuho is a child to when yasuho is an adult

[minor ore]

He's not really old, he's just fucking ugly

[thorny grove]

They hibernate a lot

That’s why they remain young for a long while

[analog skiff]

idk i just imagine that tooru is relatively a young rock human

which i feel makes his character more interesting if true

[thorny grove]

Makes him closer to a pedo also

[analog skiff]

how

[minor ore]

Well, he is relatively young. He's called young by tech companies, he acts young, he looks young.

[near cedar]

Tooru creep

[analog skiff]

i just think it's interesting how tooru has this ambition to him

[minor ore]

And his stand is an old man. bravo, Araki

[analog skiff]

tooru is creepy but he isn't a pedophile

[ocean silo]

tooru worst mv

[analog skiff]

diavolo, kars, part 1 dio, part 3 dio

[near cedar]

Slightly better then Diavolo

[minor ore]

Yeah, that really is an interesting aspect of him. It's a nice refresh after all the old geezers we had as MVs.

[thorny grove]

Tooru’s been creeping around Yasuho ever since she was a child, that’s some sus behavior by all accounts

[analog skiff]

what did he even talk about to her

[near cedar]

I like 3 of these more then Tooru

[ocean silo]

yes ik those r better villains than tooru

[near cedar]

Diavolo ain't

[minor ore]

Jobber

[analog skiff]

also if he was an actual pedo he would have done bad stuff when she was actually young, but he waited for her to be legal. still creepy as shit, but not a pedo

[minor ore]

None of those are well written tbh.

[near cedar]

Subjective

[minor ore]

DIO is like the best written villain of all those 4 and that's not that super extremely philosophical and high of a bar.

[analog skiff]

also i don't want tooru to be a pedo because that's a part 7 moment

[minor ore]

no

[ocean silo]

dio is def well written

[near cedar]

Yes

[analog skiff]

says person with dio name and dio pfp

[ocean silo]

cope

[minor ore]

DIO is awesome in the part 3 end fight

[analog skiff]

yeah but that's it

[near cedar]

I think DIO/Dio is much better written then Tooru

[minor ore]

Yeah lol

[analog skiff]

tooru is interesting throughout and saves ending fight from being complete dogshit

[ocean silo]

https://tenor.com/view/huzzah-a-man-of-quality-the-toad-susansole-flushed-away-gif-21107963

[worthy heron]

Dio better be fucken well written hes had like 40 parts to his name and part 3 was way too long

[minor ore]

LMAO

[thorny grove]

Apparently they dated when she was in high school according to the wiki, I don’t really recall but given his age that is not a good sign

[minor ore]

Well, he's kinda the entire fight.

[worthy heron]

Didnt they mention they used to go out or sum

[minor ore]

Yeah they dated

[near cedar]

Part 3 wasn't too long, the anime stretches it, DIO was physically present in 2 parts and mentioned in 2 and in a flashback in 1

[analog skiff]

damn did they say high school specifically

[hard meteor]

Yes

[kind owl]

@hard meteor, Your Stand Rank is now level 22 !

[worthy heron]

Ye bit of an exaggeration but you get me

[analog skiff]

i'm pretty sure yasuho would have been legal age when they both started dating as otherwise i doubt they would be comfortable for it, but yeah tooru is def. in a sus place then

[ocean silo]

nah they were really good friends

[analog skiff]

gonna ignore that tho because 1. it isn't rape like funny 2. tooru definitely acts like a young dude and 3. i really don't want tooru to pull a part 7

[worthy heron]

Wait that 2nd to last panel is so fire imma use sum like that to start flirting with those astrology bitches

[analog skiff]

part 7's single worst part of it is

https://tenor.com/view/splatoon2feeding-gif-21016469

part 7 character don't be a pedophile callenge

[hard meteor]

impossible

[analog skiff]

i just don't want tooru to be one too

[minor ore]

At least nobody defends Tooru's villainy like Valentine fans.

[near cedar]

I mean they did go out that was stated but friends with benefits exist

[minor ore]

Age is a human concept to Tooru. He doesn’t have to worry about that shit because he lives like 10x longer than regular humans. He probably doesn’t even know what a birthday party is.

[analog skiff]

valentine fans are legit 'merica freedum patriots

[near cedar]

HA HA I've seen it happen once

[minor ore]

"He just wanted some money bro"

[thorny grove]

Insert napkin speech here

[worthy heron]

Hate that reaction emote stupid ugly bald fuck

[hard meteor]

he just wanted that funny fruit smh

[near cedar]

No, the argument was 100% more stupid

[distant blaze]

helloo

[hard meteor]

cope

[ocean silo]

hello

[hard meteor]

[analog skiff]

valentine and tooru legit have the same reasons you could defend them

[minor ore]

handsome man

[worthy heron]

Joshu fr look like a human fly

[minor ore]

DUDE

[near cedar]

"We can't judge Tooru's actions based on human morals because rock humans aren't really people they are animals following their instincts"
There's your dose of Erik quoting cringe he saw

[analog skiff]

hell tooru probably has more justification because he and other rock humans are experiencing issues that humans don't, unlike americans who have the same issues as other countries, still unjustified thos

[minor ore]

you’re right he does look like a fly

[analog skiff]

worst reasoning ever

[worthy heron]

Im saying

[analog skiff]

i just realised

[worthy heron]

Stupid fly fuck i bet he foes the rubs hisbhands together thing too

[analog skiff]

tooru is like the fucking joker from that one movie

fuck!

[near cedar]

Oh god no

Stop

[minor ore]

Well, not really? Tooru accepts his villainy, or at least, never denies it throughout the story and never calls his actions those of absolute right and justice. Funny does.

[thorny grove]

He lives in a society

[winter spade]

Jobin you get what you fucking deserve!

[worthy heron]

Omg he really does

[minor ore]

I guess Tooru does consider his actions automatically "good" but only from self interest rather than genocidal "patriotism".

[analog skiff]

i mean more that tooru and other rock humans are being limited by human society, and tooru wishes to rise above, like tooru's ideas getting refused from the tech company due to his young appearance iirc or aisho getting cheated on

admittedly it's not talked about too much but it's still there

[thorny grove]

Aisho getting cheated on with him beneath the bed was painful to read

[minor ore]

He considers his goal a natural law I believe

[minor ore]

Tooru just wants to be a memory that is never forgotten and never passes with time. He wants to become an icon of society, so it's more than just a revolt, it's a revolt and a domination by status.

[worthy heron]

Love the mom

She fr a real one

[minor ore]

So in consequence, Rock Humans would become what humans are currently.

[minor ore]

Yeah she’s dope

[analog skiff]

yeah

[near cedar]

Nah I think he just wants to abuse the natural law

[analog skiff]

that's basically what i mean

[minor ore]

Urban Gorilla made this obvious too

[thorny grove]

Tooru’s methods are shady tho, that’s what makes him a bad guy

[worthy heron]

Damn i wanna reread jojolion so bad lmao

[analog skiff]

he just wants rock humans to be the dominants in society instead of humans, rather than the reasonable goal of wanting rock humans and humans to be equals

[minor ore]

Yeah that’s a better way of putting it. He already has a stand that controls one natural law.

[near cedar]

No shit lol

[analog skiff]

so basically tooru is just a racist

[near cedar]

LMFAO

[minor ore]

Carbon Cucks deserve no rights

[ocean silo]

remember kids, dont be racist

[minor ore]

Holy shit cancelling him rn

[worthy heron]

Reasonable goal of rock human ls being equal to reg humans? Thats not happenening lmao mfers gonna get used for the foundation of a house

[thorny grove]

Insert part 6 KKK backstory here

[analog skiff]

but yeah overall opinion has changed on tooru

[worthy heron]

They gonna use em as camping firepits

[minor ore]

Fax Rock Humans want to be above reg humans it’s like the poor revolting against the 1%

[analog skiff]

i might legit put him above kira and funny now because, while he isn't that cool on his own

the ideas he presents are significantly more interesting to me than kira and funny

[minor ore]

I think that Tooru is definitely one of the more well written villains in JoJo as a whole. For me, he's out there with the big dog himself Mr. Yoshikage.

[worthy heron]

Kira just got a fetish and as a fellow pervert i can respect it fr

[minor ore]

I wouldn't put him above Kira, but at least on par personally.

[analog skiff]

yeah, tooru i wish could have gotten a bit more stuff but otherwise i really like him

[ocean silo]

mr kira***

[winter spade]

There’s just an allure about how Tooru goes about things that makes me like him

[minor ore]

Mr. Yoshikira

[ocean silo]

[thorny grove]

[analog skiff]

tooru reminds me of pucci in a way honestly

kinda looks shallow and weird without really thinking about it

but once you look into them more they become way more interesting

[minor ore]

I think his appearance is enough. I don't think he was underused, and I think his potential was fleshed out more or less. Sure, he could get more content, but is it necessary for him to be a good villain? Absolutely not, I don't think so.

[analog skiff]

just pucci has cooler fights so he wins

yeah

[thorny grove]

The more you think about Pucci, the crazier your head becomes

[minor ore]

If he was introduced earlier as a character no one would be complaining about him. He has all the elements of a good main villain but Araki implemented him in a sneaky way.

[analog skiff]

honestly my current opinion about jojolion is only parts i dislike are go beyond and final fight

and some early fights

[ocean silo]

^

[worthy heron]

Weather report i miss you you beautiful man

[analog skiff]

i'm glad he wasn't introduced earlier tbh

[minor ore]

That’s what I’m sayin man

[minor ore]

Even then, a lot of people exaggerate with how """underused""" and """sudden""" he is. Very early on we already get foreshadowing, similiar to Diavolo, that the doctors are very, very fishy. Several times in fact.

[analog skiff]

yes

[analog skiff]

the saddest thing honestly is that

[ocean silo]

i just dont like tooru he feels bland to me tbh

[analog skiff]

remember the one theory that urban guerilla was the dude working on holly that similarly had nerd hair and glasses

but then it turned out to be a completely different dude with nerd hair and glasses

[minor ore]

Hell the same thing happened to Damo so why wouldn’t It happen to tooru. In fact Tooru appeared much earlier before his fight than Damo did.

[analog skiff]

actually that isn't that sad but still missed foreshadowing

[thorny grove]

The story kept misleading us on who the leader was tho, Tooru is a twist villain by all accounts and those are usually hard to pull off

[analog skiff]

would have been cool if that was urban

but yeah

tooru is essentially just the joker, just without a movie dedicated to him, and if the joker decided to become one of the rich guys instead and replace the rich guys with the other poor guys

fuck it, when are we getting "TOORU"

[near cedar]

Except Diavolo was foreshadowed almost instantly, and he showed up fucked shit up, left, tried to be interesting, became lame, came back

[analog skiff]

but yeah

honestly current villain tier list is kars, part 1 dio, part 3 dio, diavolo, funny, kira, tooru, pucci

from ~~best to worst ~~ worst to best

[near cedar]

Tooru showed up, left till they went to the hospital, left till he found the plant, did a cool thing once, got carded, screamed, exploded

[analog skiff]

but yeah just not a fan of final fight

and go beyond

[thorny grove]

Do you guys ever stop to think that maybe Radio Gaga might be the last song to be referenced in Jojo? In case we don’t get a part 9 of course

[minor ore]

Sure, but I think that only makes him somewhat better because he's basically Diavolo but better in basically every way. There's much more mystery, much more ignorance, but we still understand that there's someone out there who's at the top of the chain who controls everything.

[near cedar]

Go Beyond is like GER

[analog skiff]

radio gaga kinda boring song so sad if true

[worthy heron]

Def gonna be another song reference next chapter

[thorny grove]

TAKE THAT BACK

[analog skiff]

go beyond but the ability makes more sense but is less interesting

[worthy heron]

Maybe The End by metallica

[near cedar]

It countered WOU so hard the fight just kinda went to ass

[analog skiff]

oh yeah def.

[near cedar]

Is what I meant

[analog skiff]

especially when paisley park transported the bubbles through phone like was that ever explained

[tame plover]

The only thing I ""Like"" about Go beyond is that there is more kira8 and KQ8 influence

[near cedar]

I'd prefer explosive spin vs WoU

[minor ore]

We probably will get new one shots, with new Stands, so new references.

[analog skiff]

imagine if plunder wasn't squandered at the start as a blatantly op ability that makes enemy stands hard to write and instead became the final ability

[near cedar]

And some cool ass stuff like Josuke attempting to dodge calamities while perusing WoU back to the estate

[analog skiff]

that would have been so much better

[worthy heron]

If this is his last part andnits not The End by Metallica as the last song referenced he doing something wrong

[near cedar]

And firing his explosive spin finger gun all the way

[minor ore]

You don’t think seeing Tooru getting btfo is awesome?

[analog skiff]

it is but not in a cool way

[hard meteor]

plunder>go beyond tbh

[thorny grove]

I actually believed the theory that Josuke would use Kei’s stand to achieve the infinite spin like Johnny did with the horse

[analog skiff]

also did tooru lose focus and that's why yasuho was missed by the airplane door

[analog skiff]

man i wish

[worthy heron]

He doesnt directly control the calamities right?

[heavy ledge]

Afternoon

[analog skiff]

it's not even an airplane door

[minor ore]

Go Beyond > Go Close tbh.

[analog skiff]

it's an airplane panel

[analog skiff]

then why tf did the airplane panel miss

[minor ore]

He doesn't control exactly every object and every direction said objects go.

[near cedar]

He got fatally wounded the instant Josuke got Go Beyond, I like that, but it'd be cooler if it wasn't so instantaneous

[near cedar]

That could be cool

[analog skiff]

this is why i dislike vitamin c btw

[minor ore]

He just manipulates calamities into happening as nature see fits.

[analog skiff]

well i don't dislike it butit's kinda eh on a reread

[thorny grove]

Can we all agree that Norisuke is best dad?

[analog skiff]

it's a good arc on first read tho def.

[near cedar]

Oh yea

[analog skiff]

early jojo abilities that are so blatantly op they are never used again is always funny af to ne

[worthy heron]

Caato is my fav character from part 8

[near cedar]

You know what else annoys me about JJL

[analog skiff]

like damage reflection or plunder

[tame plover]

Joseph if you discount the whole Josuke situation

[worthy heron]

Shes such a real mfer

[near cedar]

Early Norisuke!!!!

And the 180

In his personality

[tame plover]

his character did like 2 180´s

[analog skiff]

maybe early norisuke got replaced by the effects of rail guard man

[near cedar]

Lol

[tame plover]

wat

[near cedar]

You forgot the life senses going berserk and working on stands thing

[minor ore]

Norikse

[heavy ledge]

What would have happened if caato didnt go to jail

[minor ore]

Oops sorry I accident pinged you erik

[near cedar]

Lol

[hard meteor]

guardrail ate and cloned him

[heavy ledge]

I mean, nobody would have believed she didnt kill that kid right?

[near cedar]

You know that thing that happened during vs Bruno and vs Black Sabbath and never again

[minor ore]

Then Norisuke wouldn’t of divorced the broad

[near cedar]

Or creating life with GE feet

Those retcons annoy me

[tame plover]

thats why part 5 sucks

and more things but shh

[heavy ledge]

I meant something else but im so asleep i cant grammar

Pretend i didnt ask anything

[near cedar]

Many

[analog skiff]

life senses going berserk just seemed like a one time thing tbh

[near cedar]

Happened twice

[analog skiff]

oh yeah

[near cedar]

Bruno,Black Sabbath

[analog skiff]

ig it worked on a stand once, then yeah ig i'd piut it on that list

[tame plover]

The biggest offender tbh is that ge can only create life thru its arms

[thorny grove]

GER would be hella cooler if it had something with that life sense acceleration thing

[tame plover]

senses going berserk?

[near cedar]

I think what Araki should have done was, if he thinks of an ability for the protagonist, before writing anything think long and hard "is this too op, is it hard to write cool fights with this, should I let him obtain this near the end instead"

This would solve Plunder's issue

And GE's issues

[tame plover]

Also is the reason why Josuke just doesnt make more new rokakakas is because he doesnt know he cant or because he cant

Because since you know, he has soft and wet

[near cedar]

I don't think he can graft anymore

That was Fumi's S&W

[winter spade]

Plunder is a dope ability but I think Araki just shifted how he views the fights in part 8 beyond just “ability vs ability”

[tame plover]

weird thing that the fusion said fuck that

[analog skiff]

here's my part 8 character tier list (not ordered within tiers)

[near cedar]

It gave him Kira bubble bombs instead

[analog skiff]

yes, based

[minor ore]

Wu at E
Immediately invalid

[hard meteor]

unbased wu should be higher

[tame plover]

excuse me why isnt Kira in S tier

[thorny grove]

I’m pretty sure Araki writes an outline for the story and just implements new ideas out of nowhere while publishing

[analog skiff]

Wu is one of my least favourite arcs

it's repetitive and creepy as shit

[minor ore]

Doctor Wu is never mid

[near cedar]

Yea if that's what he does, that is not the best idea

[sinful bramble]

Never seen the E tier used so much

[near cedar]

Looks at fucking GE

[minor ore]

Isn't creepy a good thing

[hard meteor]

wu gang 💪

[analog skiff]

creepy in a bad way

[minor ore]

At least in a setting that's supposed to be basically colorful horror

[tame plover]

I always get confused, plunder is his ability to remove properties from things right? Like sound or friction?

[analog skiff]

like ew, i never want to read that ever again creepy

and it's just repetitive

[thorny grove]

It’s the reason why plot points are introduced and never explored or some are just dropped out of nowhere

[hard meteor]

yes

[narrow yarrow]

just realised i FUCKING CALLED IT a long time ago

[tame plover]

kk

[analog skiff]

duct tape + arrows, duct tape + arrows, duct tape + arrows, duct tape + arrows

[near cedar]

Wait wut who

[analog skiff]

Wu

[near cedar]

Oooh

oh

[tame plover]

oh

[near cedar]

Okay I think ik what you mean

[minor ore]

How can you dislike this beautiful cock human

[near cedar]

I've seen things I find creepier tho

[analog skiff]

COCK HUMAN

[tame plover]

I didnt find Wu very creepy (compared to others atleast)

[hard meteor]

fr peak chad

[analog skiff]

LMAO

[winter spade]

Wu is some peak anxiety with the rocks digging themselves into your skin and under your fingernails

[thorny grove]

Are you with me Doctor Wu

[minor ore]

(He will go inside your urinary meatus)

[analog skiff]

yeah, it's just disgusting to me and then there's the genitals part and then the actual fight isn't even that cool

[eternal meteor]

doctor wu best rock human song

[analog skiff]

like as i said already, it's just duct tape and arrows but pointed in different directions

[thorny grove]

Are you really just a shadow of the man I once knew

[analog skiff]

true tho

[sinful bramble]

Don’t forget the medical cement at the end

[analog skiff]

top tier song for a bottom tier arc

[thorny grove]

It’s a double Jojo reference

[analog skiff]

yeah

[eternal meteor]

yea

[analog skiff]

only parts i thought were cool were the elevator and the virus cases

[eternal meteor]

at least doctor wu had a cool stand

[thorny grove]

Doctor Wu by STEELY DAN

[eternal meteor]

[analog skiff]

also

but yeah, only part 8 arcs i dislike are the daiya one, shakedown road kinda, doctor wu, final fight, and i think that's it

[worthy heron]

Mfer disliked like the whole part

[analog skiff]

i love every arc outside of that

[minor ore]

I only agree with unpopular jojolion opinions when they agree with me wtf is this

[hard meteor]

daiya arc is pretty shitty

[analog skiff]

also vitamin c flashback is odd, it would be good if it was explained better

[quaint gyro]

i enjoyed shakedown road

[near cedar]

Daiya arc would be fine if she wasn't let off the hook

[analog skiff]

vitamin c flashback i won't get over how people let it slide so much while they constantly make fun of dragon's sdream

[eternal meteor]

my least fav arcs of jjl are California king bed and doctor wu sorta

[analog skiff]

like literally nothing is explained why it happens in that arc

[near cedar]

I don't mean kill her, just beat the crap out of her

[analog skiff]

based

[eternal meteor]

dude I legit forgot abt dragons dream I’m trying to wipe my memory of stone ocean so I can experience the anime

[minor ore]

Yeah, the Daiya arc is definitely collectively agreed to be the lowest of the low.

Hate her and I wish she was actually barraged into a permanent hospital stay

[ocean silo]

gender equality

[minor ore]

The best arc for me is when gyro and johnney had gay secs for 10 hours

[thorny grove]

My least favorites are definitely Blue Hawaii and Daiya’s arc

[eternal meteor]

[analog skiff]

blue hawaii is pog for me

[near cedar]

Hai hai Kazuma des

[analog skiff]

it's so damn cool, i think it's one of the best arcs

[winter spade]

Blue Hawaii is great

[near cedar]

The only part I don't like about Blue Hawaii

[winter spade]

Shovel S&W is iconic

[analog skiff]

blue hawaii is the good kind of creepy for me

[near cedar]

Is that Dolomite wasn't killed

[analog skiff]

that and fun fun fun 2

doctor wu is the bad kind for me

[minor ore]

CKB is the only arc in JoJolion that I genuinely say I dislike. Everything else is either completely neutral because it went by like a nice breeze, or I just really liked it.

[winter spade]

Well dolomite is pretty chill in terms of rock humans

[eternal meteor]

finally someone that doesn’t hate blue Hawaii

[minor ore]

I dont remeber aby of these stand- I read it like a yr ago( jojolion)

[analog skiff]

tbf it's because i wasn't there during the 4 month slog everyone hated apparently

[kind owl]

@analog skiff, Your Stand Rank is now level 10 !

[minor ore]

[analog skiff]

zombie apocalypse

[eternal meteor]

dolomite and blue Hawaii make for one of the best arcs the zombie apocalypse potential was so sick

[minor ore]

OH

[thorny grove]

Best arc is Beetle Tendency

[near cedar]

Yes yes he's normally chill, he got kids adults and old people killed trying to kill Josuke he deserves death

[eternal meteor]

and at first I didn’t even know what was going on and you just saw the kid ram himself into the sign it was really tense

[minor ore]

Anasui x jolyne I don’t take criticism

[analog skiff]

also i just wanna say that i think i'm the only person ever who actually talks about brain storm

[worthy heron]

Actually true

[analog skiff]

i just kinda thought of that, i have never seen anyone talk about it except me

[minor ore]

Random controversial take = funny

[eternal meteor]

doremefasolatido

[minor ore]

not really controversial but still

[analog skiff]

someone make petting gif but with doremi

[eternal meteor]

this needs to happen

[minor ore]

On it.

[minor ore]

How is that conversation it’s letterally canon

[analog skiff]

anasui is creepy af and i'm glad she wasn't a lesbian woman or smth because that would have been 2 creepy af lesbians in jojo

[minor ore]

[minor ore]

It's indeed letterally canon

[analog skiff]

fucking annakiss and that woman

i don't like saying irene by name because it reminds me of someone i have trauma of xp

[near cedar]

Wait who's the second?

[minor ore]

He was CUTE I liked him before but now he seem a little annoying

[analog skiff]

irene

[winter spade]

Uh scarlet valentine I guess?

[near cedar]

Oh

[near cedar]

She bi tho

[analog skiff]

oh right

[winter spade]

Oh well true

[analog skiff]

i just realised she isn't a lesbian, i am stupid as shit

[eternal meteor]

ok I’m in the process I’ll be back in a few

[analog skiff]

oh yeah remember mike o

[hard meteor]

he was cool

[analog skiff]

that dude existed

[analog skiff]

pog

[minor ore]

Imagine ur wife sleeping with more women than u LMAO thats sad but he deserve it

[near cedar]

I like Anasui, he's a weird fucko, he turns into not a total asshole later

[thorny grove]

Unlike weather

[near cedar]

I don't see the relevance of that statement

[hard meteor]

yeah hes pretty based for most of the part

[minor ore]

I used to kin him because guys told me to fuck off

[near cedar]

Wat

[analog skiff]

i just don't like creepy characters

[minor ore]

I like Joshu, he’s a weird fucker, he turns into a total dumbass later

[analog skiff]

it's why i don't like joshu, anasui, and don't remember funny fondly

[near cedar]

I hate Joshu xD

[minor ore]

Not with that hair cut

[analog skiff]

and why i put part 7 lower because that part has way too many creeps xp

[thorny grove]

Didn’t you say you like Tooru?

[near cedar]

You don't like Joshu? :o
Based

[winter spade]

Unbased

[minor ore]

Tooru is the most composed creepy character I’ve ever seen

[minor ore]

Unbased (except the Valentine part)

[analog skiff]

tooru the creepy part is relatively small and can be almost explained away

[hard meteor]

hella unbased

[analog skiff]

and i really like the character otherwise so i kinda ignore it

because if i think of it too much it makes me feel sad

[minor ore]

WAIT WHY DID HE STALK YASHOHO (pink hair girl)

[thorny grove]

Yashoho

[analog skiff]

...fate?

[minor ore]

Yas

[analog skiff]

...gravity?

[minor ore]

Fate deez nuts

[thorny grove]

Cuz he’s a creep

[analog skiff]

good question actually

[minor ore]

Gravity deez nuts

[near cedar]

I hate certain characters who are creepy In certain ways
I love other creepy characters who are creepy in ways I like
I can't elaborate this better

[minor ore]

wait so is tooru a pedo

[worthy heron]

You can like a well written chracter

[analog skiff]

true, i mean creepy towards love in general i dislike

[worthy heron]

Sure you might not like what they do

[analog skiff]

creepy in terms of violence or demeanor i like

also kira works because that's his character and he is meant to be bad and that's his main motivation

[minor ore]

Well, they started dating at the legal age afaik

[minor ore]

Aren’t all jojo villain

[analog skiff]

for the other characters it's just kinda thrown in or they're meant to be good guys

[hard meteor]

no?

[analog skiff]

i don't think tooru is a pedo but he's creepy dating someone he has been watching over since they were a kid

[minor ore]

Didnt dio sleep with pucci

[near cedar]

See for me that also depends

[hard meteor]

no

[near cedar]

Hahaha no

[thorny grove]

We don’t really know whether they dated when she was 18 or before, therefore we can’t really tell for sure. His behavior is pretty creepy considering he looks 20 by the time she was 9

[hard meteor]

thats just a bad meme and an even worse headcanon

[minor ore]

OH

[analog skiff]

pucci is ace

[thorny grove]

Yeah we all know that Vanilla Ice was Dio’s favorite

[minor ore]

Sorry

[analog skiff]

asexual, canonically iirc

[minor ore]

No.

Pucci is just Pucci.

He's Puccisexual.

[thorny grove]

Pucci loves Dio in the same way a priest loves God

[near cedar]

Not sure if DIO is above it, but, as it's unconfirmed, don't make DIO a pedo, Pucci was 16 when they met

[minor ore]

No one can be dio fav other than jonathan (he respect him sm)

[analog skiff]

actually yeah no, he just didn't share attraction towards dio, and wasn't seen dating or being romantic towards anyone, it was just my headcanon that he was ace lol

[near cedar]

No lul

He wasn't

[eternal meteor]

legend, the website kept crashing on me

[eternal meteor]

can we make this an emote now

[minor ore]

IM DIO FAV

[eternal meteor]

wait

[minor ore]

The website for some reason doesn't allow you to download the gif directly

[analog skiff]

make doremi transparent and yes hopefully

[minor ore]

Why are people calling DIO a pedo for befriending Pucci

[thorny grove]

Pucci wasn’t allowed on Dio’s mansion while Vanilla Ice was. I’m spitting straight facts here m8

[kind owl]

@thorny grove, Your Stand Rank is now level 9 !

[analog skiff]

twitter

[near cedar]

The only people DIO gave a flying fuck about were Jonathan, and Pucci but I don't believe it was to the same extent

[violet loom]

Is fumi like alternate universe Joseph?

[analog skiff]

yes

[near cedar]

No

[violet loom]

And his mom

[minor ore]

Your first mistake is having Twitter

[minor ore]

Not confirmed but 99% likely

[analog skiff]

fumi is born same age as joseph joestar in the sbr universe

[minor ore]

I was just playing tboi lol

At least, the counterpart rather than AU Joseph

[analog skiff]

so it's likely he is sbr universe joseph joestar

[minor ore]

AU ___ is a bit misleading.

[violet loom]

Ok game, 5/10

[near cedar]

Exceeeeeept Joseph Joestar already exists in SBR

[eternal meteor]

yea I think counterpart is better fit than AU

[near cedar]

And his name is Joseph Joestar

[analog skiff]

yes, and he was born at the same year as fumi-kun lmao

[violet loom]

Yeah that’s why I was wondering

[eternal meteor]

very good game 11/10

[near cedar]

Fumi isn't in the family tree Joseph is

[analog skiff]

and josefumi is japanese pronunciation of joseph or at least close to it, so it's theorised they are the same person

[minor ore]

Josefu

[analog skiff]

i doubt them being born same yeari s a coincidence

[minor ore]

Repentance is 10/10

[eternal meteor]

what if Joseph was too hard for Japanese to say so he stuck with fumi lol

[minor ore]

isnt fumi his nickname or smthing

[violet loom]

He’s probably just a reference instead of being a counterpart

[minor ore]

There's a hundred more reasons why Fumi is most definitely (likely) Joseph.

[violet loom]

Best DLC

[near cedar]

Doubt

[analog skiff]

yeah fumi stands for josefumi i'm pretty sure

[near cedar]

Well yes and no

[eternal meteor]

best thing to happen to the game

[analog skiff]

also he has big parallels with joseph

[minor ore]

He did say he goes by "Fumi-kun" i think

[analog skiff]

like driving with a pendleton, being introduced stopping a bandit

[minor ore]

but never really said his full name

[hard meteor]

its likely a nickname

[minor ore]

The Dogpark translation clears out that it's a nickname as far as we understand. It's now "They call me Fumi-kun" instead, which is far more straightforward

[thorny grove]

Josephmi

[eternal meteor]

so yea it could be possible idk

[analog skiff]

fumi-kun is joseph and if he isn't i will eat cereals

[minor ore]

yoo cereal

[near cedar]

Okay and his name being Josfumi proves what? That he's related to Josefumi maybe, but he's not Joseph Joestar

Joseph Joestar married Suzi and had Holly

[violet loom]

I was thinking he’s related too

[analog skiff]

born in same year, heavy parallels to joseph joestar

doubt it's a coincidence

[near cedar]

Yes in this universe too

[analog skiff]

yes and joseph is the english version of josefumi right

[violet loom]

Maybe araki is just having fun and making a reference to an old character

[minor ore]

Wdym? Fumi itself is a nickname, stemming from Joseph being pronounced as Josefu in Japanese, which people in Japan probably had a hard time pronouncing in the older times, so they resorted to Fumi-kun instead

[near cedar]

No?

Joseph, Josephu

[eternal meteor]

what if… it was all a dream

[analog skiff]

ok fair idk i'm tired

it sounded like it made sense at first, let's wait for 110

[hard meteor]

fair but theres the possibility he could've cheated

[analog skiff]

i'm leaning towards same person or at least closely related

[thorny grove]

“This has truly been a Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure Part 8: Jojolion, huh?”

[analog skiff]

because of the birth year and parallels

[eternal meteor]

yea I’m thinking Fumi cheated and had Josfumi in his 60’s

[minor ore]

Yeah like in the first time line

[devout whale]

Who is AU jotaro?

[analog skiff]

kyo and kira

[minor ore]

The divorce papers Kiyomi has been shown to have (without any additional info, meaning it's more important than we thought) are one part of the evidence.

[eternal meteor]

which would explain josefumis birthmark and why he wasn’t in the family tree book

[hard meteor]

most would say kira

[minor ore]

Wait Josefumi has has a birthmark?

[eternal meteor]

I think it’s a mix of Kira and kei

[kind owl]

@eternal meteor, Your Stand Rank is now level 11 !

[near cedar]

And would make Kirafumi shippers cry

[analog skiff]

yes

[devout whale]

Did 109 josefumi have a birthmark?

[minor ore]

I 100% need to reread

[near cedar]

The ones with morals

[analog skiff]

i legit had no idea josefumi was not part of the family until now

i'm stupid as shit.

[analog skiff]

where tf is kira's

[violet loom]

I never noticed that tbh, how is he related?

[sinful bramble]

Wouldn’t have noticed if not for the massive arrow

[eternal meteor]

because… blood related 😳

[minor ore]

SO LIKE.. JOSEFUMI AND KIRA R BASICALLY BROTHERS BY THE JOESTAR BLOOD?

[analog skiff]

i saw a theory this is a drawing error, could be a possibilituu

[minor ore]

wait

[sinful bramble]

Obscured

[violet loom]

Could be

[eternal meteor]

he’s be the son of Fumi, who would then be the grandson of Johnny

[minor ore]

no, probably the same thing with jotaro and josuke

[analog skiff]

it should be at the same spot as josefumi's

[violet loom]

True true

[analog skiff]

yes exactly, this could literally just be a drawing mistake lmfao

[eternal meteor]

yea

[thorny grove]

Kirafumi shippers dying instantly as they see they’re related

[eternal meteor]

[violet loom]

Let’s be real they won’t care

[minor ore]

LMAO

[eternal meteor]

fr

[analog skiff]

they'll just use drawing mistake card like i am

[minor ore]

were so smart

to figure this out

Basically:
Fumi = Joseph, JP pronunciation: Josefu(mi)
Kiyomi cheated on Sadafumi with Joseph, had Josefumi (explaining the birthmark and the divorce papers)
Both (OG) Joseph and Fumi began with their wallet being stolen, both Joseph and Fumi violated a person for it, both Joseph and Fumi are looking out for and entered an antique vehicle with an old lady that has the last name "Pendleton", both Joseph and Fumi are pretty childish individuals with (seemingly) hearts of gold, both Joseph and Fumi have something to do with a camera.

[analog skiff]

...violated????

[minor ore]

Joseph with the police man, Fumi with the guy who stole his wallet.

[eternal meteor]

[analog skiff]

violated means sexually assault most of the time that word is used

[minor ore]

If Fumi doesn't pull out a gun in the next chapter istg

Uhhh

Brutalized I guess?

[analog skiff]

yes ig

[minor ore]

Who knows

[eternal meteor]

I need Fumi to pull out king crimson act 4 pls araki

[analog skiff]

josefumi with the hamon stand

[violet loom]

I was just thinking hermit purple

[analog skiff]

like it's just called "hamon"

and it works exactly like hamon

best stand.

[eternal meteor]

wait yeah, like a stand that’s just hamon

like it’s powers are hamon

[minor ore]

So basically tho,

Josefumi = Holly's brother

and,

Kira = Josefumi's Nephew??

[analog skiff]

fuck family trees

[minor ore]

hurts my brain

[violet loom]

This shit making my brain hurt

[violet loom]

Same wavelength

[kind owl]

@violet loom, Your Stand Rank is now level 4 !

[minor ore]

Yes, which is a direct reference to Josuke being Holly's half brother in Part 4, and Jotaro being Josuke's nephew in the same part.

Araki moment

[analog skiff]

you know

when's it gonna turn out diego secretly had a son

[minor ore]

Flashback Man

[violet loom]

Where is dio

[analog skiff]

in 110, and then that's dio in part 8

[eternal meteor]

I can’t comprehend

[analog skiff]

last panel of 110 will just be diego's son arriving in morioh

[violet loom]

Maybe Johnny cheated on his wife like a boss

[analog skiff]

anyways, i gotta sleep now

[analog skiff]

honestly in character for johnny

wtf was that

[violet loom]

Nah he seemed to really love his family

[eternal meteor]

this is where josefumi would theoretically be

[violet loom]

Legit

[analog skiff]

have an amazing night all of you!!!!!

[analog skiff]

but fumi-kun was born in 1924

[tame plover]

except his fathers name is sadafumi

[eternal meteor]

night

[tame plover]

Not Joseph

[eternal meteor]

yea

[hard meteor]

sadafumi couldve been an alias/fake name

[minor ore]

Basically:
Joseph Joestar (Fumi) has Holly as his daughter and Yoshikage as his grandson.
But he also did the thing with Kiyomi, which makes Josefumi his son.
That means Holly is the half sister of Josefumi (siblings from the same father but different mother), and Josefumi is Kira's uncle (because Josefumi is Holly's half brother)

[analog skiff]

wait i'm dumb i mixed up josefumi and fumi kun

[eternal meteor]

nice, thanks because i too dumb to figure that out

[analog skiff]

it's confusing as shit ok i gotta sleep now good night y'all!!!!!

[tame plover]

I feel sadafumi is fumi from the Lucy flashback and fumi can just be a nickname

[eternal meteor]

yea I was abt to as well lol

[analog skiff]

amazing night y'all!!!!

[minor ore]

Joseph had Josuke at 65, Fumi would have Josefumi at 67 in this case

[hard meteor]

either that or sadafumi could be connected to the joestar family line which isnt too unbelievable as theirs like 4-5 unnamed people in the family tree he could be related to

[minor ore]

Another Araki moment btw

[minor ore]

Or just someone who Kiyomi cheated on with Joseph, paralleling (and contrasting) Joseph's affair in Part 4.

My brain is too small to process that

[hard meteor]

that works too

[minor ore]

@minor ore refer to the message I'm replying to

I tried to make it short to not flood the channel, but that's as short and as understandable as I can make it

[tame plover]

now we just wait till Fumi is attacked by the rail and we see him naked to see if he has the birthmark

[eternal meteor]

ok before I go for now, this is how guerilla looked like in the hospital bruh

[minor ore]

hot moment

[minor ore]

[worthy heron]

Looks like a fucken pencil lmao

[hard meteor]

[minor ore]

2021 JoJolion but Holly dies of Covid 😔

[tame plover]

Rip

The governments of the world are hiding this fact!!

[violet loom]

Cyberpunk Jojo

[barren marten]

ok so

could josuke part 4 restore kira part 8s balls

[proud shadow]

can wonder of u beat goku if goku pursues the head doctor

[minor ore]

[minor ore]

Probably.

Should I read punpun or eva?

[barren marten]

idk bout ´WoU but pesci could

[proud shadow]

how

[minor ore]

Like i have time for both but

[barren marten]

goku cant see pescis stand so he could just move the line to his heart and cut it

[minor ore]

A calamity adapted for Goku (like an internal disease, for example) would probably kill him off if he ever tries to get near.

[proud shadow]

lol but what if goku just speed blitzes him before he can do that

[barren marten]

pesci can dodge

hes fast

[minor ore]

What if Goku speed blitzes to the shower for once, smelly fuck

[barren marten]

also if pesci just follows the heaven plan and gets made in heaven he will be faster than goku

ez win for pesci

[ocean silo]

pesci dies before he can even blink

[barren marten]

no he can dodge

[ocean silo]

ok troll

[barren marten]

were you not listening

[minor ore]

Pesci solos guko verse ez clap

[deft trellis]

I found the one who shot poor tom

[barren marten]

pesci can just get made in heaven by following the heaven plan and now he is even faster than goku

[barren marten]

the one who shot poor tom was thunder mcqueen

he was cleaing his shotgun

[minor ore]

That’s one of diavolo’s death so #canon

[dire furnace]

Goku gets Heart Virus stage 4

[barren marten]

one of diavolos deaths is where he falls and gets shot by thunder mcqueen

[minor ore]

LMAO YOU'RE ACTUALLY SERIOUS ABT THIS

[barren marten]

ofc

pesci is op

[crisp vigil]

no

[barren marten]

of course he is

[tame plover]

No

[minor ore]

His stand would've been good, if he had a lot of iq

[barren marten]

of course he is

well you dont need iq to follow the heaven plan

[hard meteor]

no

[barren marten]

and get made in heaven and speed up time to kill goku easily

[crisp vigil]

sure pesci knows the heaven plan

[barren marten]

he can just read jotaros memory 🙄

[crisp vigil]

pesci knows what a jotaro is now?

[minor ore]

LMAO

[barren marten]

pesci is smart he can figure it out

[kind owl]

@barren marten, Your Stand Rank is now level 8 !

[tame plover]

this much crap jokes in one chat is killing my brain cells

[crisp vigil]

me too smh

[eternal meteor]

[barren marten]

[eternal meteor]

but beach boys is op

[barren marten]

yeah thats what im saying

he can kill goku easily

[eternal meteor]

idek what goku does

[minor ore]

power up

[eternal meteor]

I just know spiky color changing hair

[barren marten]

what is gokus stand

[tame plover]

Only like 10 jojo characters (at most) could win/stalemate goku

[barren marten]

pesci is one of them

[tame plover]

No

[worthy heron]

Goke would ruin like most of these fools

[barren marten]

GOKE

[worthy heron]

Goku

[barren marten]

yeah but pesci would win against goke ez

ol' goke doesnt stand a chance

[minor ore]

can u name them

[crisp vigil]

this chat is hurting me

[barren marten]

-pesci
-pesci
-pesci
-pescI
-tooru
-giorno
-johnny probably
-pesci

[minor ore]

B)

[hardy trench]

me

[nocturne whale]

Gappy

[barren marten]

omg hi pesci

[eternal meteor]

mayb we should talk abt fumi shape shifting into a guardrail and forming a physics link with gyros ghost instead

[tame plover]

Some of them are Kars, Giorno, Polnareff, potentially both Kiras, 20th century boy (or whatever is called the invincible stand), super fly

[nocturne whale]

Tusk

[barren marten]

nah i bet the guard rail is alternate universe pesci

[nocturne whale]

Valutinue and Kars

[tame plover]

Those are just some I think of that can win/stalemate goku

[hardy trench]

nah, goku wins from 20th century boy

[eternal meteor]

actually goku couldn’t even see beach boys reel so maybe he could actually win

[hardy trench]

eventually he dies from having no food or water

[barren marten]

THATS WHAT I WAS SAYING

[tame plover]

He can’t hurt him so stalemate

[minor ore]

@barren marten is a big fan of you

Goku can’t even see or harm stands SAD

[hardy trench]

also rohan

[crisp vigil]

well what state of goku is this, and when in his life does this take place

[barren marten]

magenta magenta beats goke NO COMPETITION

[eternal meteor]

Maybe Fumi could use hermit purple to beat goku

[barren marten]

because magenta magenta has a gun

[minor ore]

wait how funny valentine? how if he just gets another goku?

[tame plover]

what the fuck did you just say. How can one be wrong so much in one sentence

[barren marten]

magenta magenta can just shoot goke

[crisp vigil]

people saying fumi is joseph joestar

[worthy heron]

He dont need to worry bout stands mfer can boom these mfers in the head before they even realize what is happeneing

[hardy trench]

hes a reference prob

[tame plover]

Even if he was he can’t possibly gain purple hermit since hamon isn’t a thing

[crisp vigil]

yeah i don’t know man

[nocturne whale]

Imagine If we get a heart shape at the end of jojolion

[hardy trench]

do we know range on heavens door?

[barren marten]

nah magenta has a gun

[paper quail]

Did someone say Fumi posting?

[barren marten]

he can just shoot goke

[worthy heron]

Guns dont work on goke goku

[eternal meteor]

yes, as you can see I am a fumi lover

[nocturne whale]

And lt

[minor ore]

[nocturne whale]

Tusk can clap goku

[paper quail]

Giga ultra CHAD

[barren marten]

ok but what if magenta follows the heaven plan and gets made in heaven

[nocturne whale]

One Bullet

[barren marten]

boom ez fight

[minor ore]

yeah so like Funny Valentine>Goku

[barren marten]

def

[tame plover]

Dio doesn’t exist on sbr-verse

[eternal meteor]

But seriously I’ve been following jjl for a little over a year and still can’t believe it’s ending

[minor ore]

same

[eternal meteor]

imma miss this chat after the final chapter, speculating after each month

[barren marten]

magenta magenta has a gun he can just shoot a hole to the original time line

[paper quail]

Funny high diffs goku no question

[minor ore]

In reality I've been following JJL for like 3-4 months at best and I already feel like I've been here since chapter 1's release.

[barren marten]

doremifasolati do beats goke EZ NO QUESTION

because if goku tries to attack he can just go underground!

[eternal meteor]

I’ve been here since a little after WoU started

Maybe chapter 85?

maybe 90

[paper quail]

Hey Ya CHASMS Goku

[crisp vigil]

i can’t tell if this is bs or you’re just

[hardy trench]

jojo characters that could beat goko (no debate): giorno, tooru
jojo characters that could potentially beat goku: valentine, kars, btd kira, SCR polnareff
jojo characters that could stalemate goku: superfly

[barren marten]

dude it so obvious

[tame plover]

They are just over extending a joke way past it’s epiration date

[barren marten]

doremifasolatido can just go underground

what is goku gonna do about that

[hardy trench]

the reason why I dont think normal kira could win is that goku outranges him

[winter spade]

Goku can fly but he can’t dig

[eternal meteor]

WoU could bear goku no shot obviously

[winter spade]

That’s his weakness we all know that?

[paper quail]

Going off of DBZ power scaling if
Tooru > Goku and Josuke > Tooru that means Josuke > Goku

[eternal meteor]

or at least survive

[barren marten]

i didnt know goku carries a shovel with him at all times 🙄

[hardy trench]

I dont know wtf you are saying

[winter spade]

Like that one time goku fought the underminer and lost

[worthy heron]

Is ultra instinct better than calamities is a great question

[kind owl]

@worthy heron, Your Stand Rank is now level 7 !

[tame plover]

Ger is a potentially but can definitly stalemate him, we haven’t seen calamities that are as strong as a planet explosion

[hardy trench]

could you explain ultra instinct?

[crisp vigil]

calamity can’t do anything if you know to dodge it

[paper quail]

You can dodge calamities, they just won't stop chasing you so Goku will eventually run out of stamina

[eternal meteor]

I honestly have no idea what goku can do so imma step out until Jojolion comes back

[tame plover]

Bassicly insta reactions

[barren marten]

thunder mcqueen can kill goku EZ

he can just kill himself

[eternal meteor]

is that how it works?

[crisp vigil]

same, also because it got really unfunny

[hardy trench]

ger is no debate, and so is wou. the calamities will appear to fast, so even if they wont kill him at first, will kill him eventually

[eternal meteor]

[paper quail]

Also Ultra Instinct is kinda dog, in the latest arc of DBS Ultra Instinct goku got low diff'd can't dodge shit actual worthless technique

[tame plover]

dude you know this guy can survive planet exploding attacks and brush them off at the end of the series?

[barren marten]

doesnt matter if pesci has made in heaven

[hardy trench]

the calamities will always be more powerful than they look, rai tripping meant almost his entire legs being cut off

[tame plover]

Also ger needs to kill you to put you in inf death. He is certainly strong but not sure if enough for goku

[hardy trench]

and you cant stop the calamity, at least not something goku has

[paper quail]

Okay so maybe he can survive the calamities (debatable) but GER is actually no question.

[kind owl]

@paper quail, Your Stand Rank is now level 5 !

[barren marten]

he can just snap gokus neck

also beach boy can just fish a shark out of the ocean to eat goku

[worthy heron]

Lemme find a manga explanation for UI recently

[tame plover]

1. To put in inf death ger has to kill you first
2. It definitly its strong as fuck but I don’t know if enough compared to Goku

Definitly stalemate

[paper quail]

GER doesn't need to put you in a death loop to win, if you can't even attack Giorno then Goku simply can't do shit. Giorno attacks while Goku is defenseless to do anything about it. It's only a stalemate if Giorno doesn't attack Goku.

[hardy trench]

ger could easily use life giver to kill goku, and than use return to zero to put him in infinite deathloop

[minor ore]

How about The Hand?

[eternal meteor]

the hand is no contest

same with cream

[barren marten]

giorno cover himself and the ground with frogs

except

[tame plover]

It’s a stalemate if both characters can’t win and i feel that ger can barely leave bruises on goku.

[barren marten]

the frogs will probably run away

[eternal meteor]

all okuyasu has to do it get close to goku, and since goku can’t see stands then he can just scrape is head away

[barren marten]

so giorno should just make a shark and have it eat goku

[hardy trench]

ger is also faster than the speed of light

im not sure if goku is

[minor ore]

We know that calamities are natural laws of reality, meaning they (by the logic of sweaty powerscalers) scale to reality automatically (as they are fundamental parts of it). WoU manipulates this fundamental, and thus there is no reason not to think that a calamity can adapt to Goku's level (which is only multi universal at best in canon) to defeat him if need be.

Especially because you don't actually need a planet exploding to kill Goku.

[paper quail]

oops guess I can't say that word lmao, Goku is mega stupid so he would probably punch that tree Giorno just made as hard as he can and cave his own skull in

[tame plover]

Life giver doesn’t kill you?? It just makes your senses go berserk aka faster than your body by a long shot, also that would mean that Ger can even land a shot on goku

[minor ore]

Goku died in the main timeline from a heart disease.

[barren marten]

yeah but beach boy can cut his heart

[hardy trench]

thats not life giver

thats a ge power

[tame plover]

I think people also forget how vulnerable Tooru is. One kamehameha and he is gone.

[barren marten]

not if he dodges

[minor ore]

Tooru. Not WoU, it's a post-mortem Stand.

[paper quail]

Dude is forgetting that Goku is just a guy without putting up his ki as a shield. He got shot in the chest by a Frieza grunt and Whis had to revert time

[minor ore]

Also, attacking Tooru equals pursuit, which WoU would take care of.

[paper quail]

You could arguably kill Goku with a knife to the throat if he's sleeping

[hardy trench]

nope, because calamity prevents him from even doing that

[barren marten]

you could just have a shark eat him

[tame plover]

If you say WoU only without Tooru than, then I would see it winning

[hardy trench]

while tooru is vulnerable

[minor ore]

And Goku wouldn't even be able to speedblitz to Tooru before the calamity is enacted because the simple thought of wanting to defeat Tooru would already result in a calamity before he begins moving.

[hardy trench]

wous calamities will protect him

[paper quail]

Reminder that Tooru dying doesn't stop the calamity

[barren marten]

tooru can just get made in heaven and become in vulnarable

[hardy trench]

no

[sinful bramble]

what

[tame plover]

^ahem

[barren marten]

wym what

[minor ore]

cant ger just punch goku and make his thing go berserk like what happened with bucciarati

Even with Tooru, I don't see Goku having a chance.

[hardy trench]

^^^

[minor ore]

It's confirmed that the mere thought of wanting to pursuit Tooru fucks you up

[hardy trench]

because his calamities keep protecting tooru

[paper quail]

Yeah and he can do it during GER so Goku can't even dodge out of the way if he tries to attack Giorno

[barren marten]

yeah and also pesci can just fish up a shark and have it eat goku

[tame plover]

Also i say ger could potentially defeat goku but that is depending how strong its punches are and how fast it truly is. If not stalemate

[hardy trench]

while a kameha would kill tooru, it wouldnt even get the chance because a calamity will prevent it

[barren marten]

tooru can just dodge it

[hardy trench]

how fast is goku?

[minor ore]

Goku's speed is pretty much immeasurable in comparison to JoJoverse

[barren marten]

what about made in heaven

what if tooru got made in heaven

[hardy trench]

ok so if goku would fight ger, goku wouldnt be able to deal any damage, thats a fact. and gers power and speed are still vastly stronger than any stand in the series, and its faster than the speed of light

[tame plover]

Fast enough to react to a character that stops time. He by the end with ultra instinct is bassicly faster than light speed

[paper quail]

It doesn't matter how strong GER's punches are. Goku has to actively put up a Ki shield to have high defenses (as we saw with that Frieza grunt shooting him in the chest) so if Goku attacks Giorno, GER procs, Goku reverts back and is defenseless as Giorno attacks him.

[tame plover]

Yes but are they strong enough to damage goku is the question

[hardy trench]

ok so about the same speed as ger, just for simplicity

[tame plover]

For simplicity’s sake sure

[minor ore]

called the roka organization rn for them to research me the phenomenon of "i laughed", unfortunately they can't find it.

[tame plover]

Yes but this is a active engagement that both parties are in. Not a giorno surprise attack

[minor ore]

[paper quail]

I don't think you understand GER's ability

[tame plover]

I don’t think you understand that even in base form goku can still tank many hits..

[paper quail]

Re-read how Giorno actually rushed Diavolo. Diavolo was physically unable to move or do anything as he watched Giorno attack him.

[tame plover]

Without knowing Gers physicals strength I woudnt say anything more than it can stalemate

[barren marten]

no really tooru can just follow the heaven plan and get made in heaven

[minor ore]

No.

[barren marten]

yes

[tame plover]

And if you say that Tooru dies and WoU is still there to kill Goku as a win then Tooru can beat goku

[paper quail]

GER is at the very least stronger than KC which is physically strong as he is able to chop through people in half and donut them easily. So he could very easily destroy Goku's body with punches.

[minor ore]

DIO doesn't exist in SBRverse, and that's not how the Heaven Plan works.

[barren marten]

tooru can find a way

[tame plover]

Goku in base form isn’t even comparable to a human tho

[barren marten]

he can just read jotaros memories

[tame plover]

He is still beyond human capabilities

[minor ore]

Tooru can find deez nuts (and he would be welcomed )

[barren marten]

tooru could easily get mih

[paper quail]

According to Ressurection F, Goku without a ki shield up is just as vulnerable as anyone else

[tame plover]

ah yes the non cannon movie

[paper quail]

The very Canon DBS arc which had the same exact sequence.

[hardy trench]

ok, I have a way ger would defeat goku

[paper quail]

Also Krillin was shown to be hurt by bullets because he stopped training, and before in the cell saga Krillin was a god among men in terms of physical abilities. Which proves that without putting up the ki shield and maintaining it their defenses aren't all that great.

[tame plover]

Oh wait nvm resurrections f is the sequel to battle of gods

Also if you are saying that Goku appears without being ready for fighting than Giorno should have ge and the arrow in hand

[paper quail]

I didn't say he appears without being ready to fight, I'm saying GER's ability would make Goku vulnerable.

[hardy trench]

because ger can return things to zero, he can keep returning goku to the same location he was, potentially making him a sitting duck without him being able to move, as he keeps reverting him to zero. its also been proven that one punch, no matter what will put you in an infinite deathloop. now MAYBE those punches arent strong enough, but they do say so in the japanese manga that one punch would put you in an infinite deathloop (altho it might be because no human could survive them, we would never know)

picture for proof:

[tame plover]

I feel ed made the better case here

[hardy trench]

oh wait wrong pic

[tame plover]

Also as you stated in parenthesis it’s most probably referring to your average human

[hardy trench]

we wouldnt know that tho

[tame plover]

That’s why I say stalemate

[paper quail]

Even if it's one punch that procs the death loop I'd give it the benefit of the doubt and say that's off the table and the punch has to be lethal to proc.

[hardy trench]

idk, I feel like theres more evidence towards giorno winning

and I feel like eventually, those punches could kill goku

even if it would take a lot

[tame plover]

I understand Ed’s approach with revert to zero but if both characters appear and they are both ready to fight (aka giorno already stabbed ge and goku is in his strongest form) I feel the return to zero would just make it so goku can’t reach giorno but not that he will go back to base form

[paper quail]

I'm saying it doesn't matter because he couldn't survive it anyway, GER is an innate ability that auto procs under the conditions no matter what. Goku's Ki shield on the other hand isn't innate, he has to physically control it. Goku being returned to zero would put him in a state where he can't do anything but watch as we saw with Diavolo who has an ability that could negate damage but he has to activate it.

[hardy trench]

I agree with you

but with giorno being faster than goku, his punches would eventually kill goku

[tame plover]

If someone can’t move and it’s stuck in time bassicly they are still performing the action they were doing

In that exact moment

[hardy trench]

what?

[tame plover]

Idk if he is faster than him in ultra instinct (btw ultra instinct doesn’t give him ungodly strength and its purely defensive so even if he was faster than ger reaction time it woudnt attack him)

[flint blaze]

it doesn't occur automatically, there's no basis for that

[hardy trench]

he is, ger is outside of the space time continuum

[pearl topaz]

[tame plover]

Well at least it’s reaction times

[pearl topaz]

Wheres chapter 109

[paper quail]

GER proc'd while Giorno himself was unaware of events happening (during King Crimson's ability) meaning it quite literally is automatic

[tame plover]

[hard meteor]

its been out for 2 days

[hardy trench]

no, its proven because ger isnt affected by time erasure

[tame plover]

I’m saying it’s physical movements

Like if it was throwing punches

[paper quail]

For all intense and purposes GER is a 4th dimensional entity which would automatically win any "speed" battle with anything that isn't 4th dimensional

[flint blaze]

that wouldn't mean it's automatic, ger is a requiem stand. Requiem stands operate outside of the user's control. Giorno being unaware of everything means nothing.

[kind owl]

@flint blaze, Your Stand Rank is now level 1 !

[tame plover]

Ger is a automatic stand

[paper quail]

Something effects Giorno which triggers GER to activate its' ability essentially making it automatic.

[tame plover]

It’s a characteristic of requiem

They are automatic stands

[hardy trench]

it would still be faster, as it was able to move outside of a place where time doesnt exist. this would mean that it could move so fast, it was able to be outside of it

[paper quail]

Giorno not having to activate the ability IS THE DEFINITION of an automatic stand

[flint blaze]

why

[hardy trench]

so it being faster than goku + goku not being able to even move, it would most likely result in ger winning

[tame plover]

It doesn’t mean it moves so fast it moves outside of time, it just means that those ability’s don’t affect it

[paper quail]

@flint blaze Why is Sheer heart attack an automatic stand? It still has to activate its' ability pepega

[flint blaze]

then shouldn't it have reverted blood being thrown in Giorno's eyes even before Diavolo punched him

[flint blaze]

because it operates off of set commands and rules. Ger isn't shown to do so, though

[tame plover]

It did, didn’t it?

[paper quail]

Narratively no, because it would kill all suspense and the explanation would've been poor. But in the end it did revert it.

[flint blaze]

it only started reverting everything after time erasure had ended and Diavolo was about to hit Giorno

[paper quail]

My head canon is that Giorno was flying because GER told gravity to fuck off

[tame plover]

Blood being thrown at giorno I don’t think is a real threat to him

[round rune]

Anything is a real threat if its tried hard enough

[hardy trench]

if a being would exist outside of space, time and reality, it would mean that it isnt affected by those laws. this is why the only beings that could defeat ger are 5th dimensional beings, as it is one itself

[tame plover]

gravity (aka fate) was a threat to giorno!

~~Part 5 fan

[hardy trench]

goku however, is only a 4th dimensional being

[paper quail]

Again, it was a narrative decision to show case everything being reversed like the leafs falling, the blood coming back, and Diavolo being repositioned.

[flint blaze]

I know, I was just disagreeing with the idea that GER reverts stuff for simply affecting Giorno

[round rune]

Wait why is goku in the topic of GER

What did I miss

[tame plover]

It reverts stuff that threatens giorno a well being

[paper quail]

Goku vs Stand users @round rune

[flint blaze]

except ger doesn't exist outside of spacetime

[hardy trench]

it does

[tame plover]

We were talking about stands that can win/stalemate him and the the fucking ger came into chat

[flint blaze]

why

[round rune]

Goku wouldn't fight giorno until Giorno would ask to fight

[hardy trench]

as it isnt affected by any of king crimsons time skips

[round rune]

GER is the only one i can think of really, Maybe chariot requiem too

[flint blaze]

it was

[hardy trench]

charior requiem wouldnt be able to beat it

[tame plover]

Also D4C (with and without love train)

[flint blaze]

even if it wasn't, why would that mean it exists outside of spacetime

[hardy trench]

nope

[paper quail]

I forgot the part where Diavolo won in part 5, that's my bad

[tame plover]

If he changes goku’s body with his then yes

[hardy trench]

as it isnt affected by something that happens in time.... thats how that works

[hardy trench]

doesnt mean goku would die

[flint blaze]

we see it carrying out actions according to Diavolo's Epitaph while time is erased

[hardy trench]

just means that goku is funny french man now

[tame plover]

Yes if he is in the body of a disabled French man

[flint blaze]

that's.. not how that works. Everything happens in time

[hardy trench]

oh and pol could use gokus body to...

[tame plover]

I like how we both went to “French man”

[round rune]

with love train yeah, without goku just has to fly up

[hardy trench]

yeah ok cr could beat goku

[hardy trench]

THATS THE POINT OF 4/5TH DIMENSIONAL BEINGS

[tame plover]

He can bring alt universe goku and they collide killing both

[paper quail]

Epitaph is a premonition, it's what the stand ability is showing Diavolo what will happen. Meaning GER is literally in control of time itself because he changed it. King Crimson has to follow the rules of time whereas GER can alter them that's what makes GER exist outside of Space time.

[flint blaze]

so you agree everything happens in time, every action

[hardy trench]

not for 5th dimensional beings

and some 4th

[worthy heron]

Sorry it took so long but i think this is why calamities would get beat @hardy trench

[flint blaze]

Altering something=/=existing outside of it though. Also Giorno simply prevented those events from coming to pass

[hardy trench]

thats interesting actually...

[paper quail]

It's funny cause next arc Goku's UI gets bodied

[hardy trench]

hol up let me read wou wiki

[worthy heron]

Ye he just gonna get it good again bro you knownhownit goes

[round rune]

Yeah and goku can teleport in a split second and he also has a move that surrounds him in a special aura that doesnt let poison or anything go through.

[flint blaze]

why would that mean goku wouldn't be affected by calamity

[paper quail]

You cannot change a higher dimension without being in it yourself.

[round rune]

Anyway, More interesting fight. Hit vs King Crimson

Hit can also "skip time" but its more a pocket dimension