jojolion

[white beacon]

cuz like, it's probably the only song that has "Awaking"

but the III Leaves part seem to suggest the suit of Clubs/Clovers in playing cards

since mitsuba's name is "3 leaves" or "clubs" i dunno i forgot but it's something along those lines

[craggy belfry]

Kyo is kind of like a mix between Jotaro and Okuyasu

albeit Jotaro is split between 3 people in part 8

name to josefumi, personality to Kira, and style to Kyo

[minor ore]

great, they gave her personality to an irrelevant character /s

[craggy belfry]

Kira isn't really irrelevant I'd say

josefumi though...

he just tags along with him

[minor ore]

K-Kyo

[white beacon]

@craggy belfry don't use images that include the n-word

[craggy belfry]

ok

[drowsy oyster]

Why

[kind owl]

@agile star, Your Gangstar cred is now level 1 !

[agile star]

This man Jobin got drip

[white beacon]

i still wonder what those lines are supposed to be

[craggy belfry]

He got them from an intense beatle fight

[white beacon]

scars? like oku's scars? or face tats like avdol's?

[craggy belfry]

*beetle

can I talk about Part 9 spoilers here?

[white beacon]

there is no part 9

as of yet

so like, what's to spoil??

[craggy belfry]

bruh

bruh

You really out here telling me you ain't read the first 3 volumes of Platinum Legacy, the story of Jordan Joestar the mummified twin brother of Johnny Joestar's son (also the new universe's Giorno Giovanna?) I was gonna talk about how Jobin has turned out to be the best returning character but I guess you didn't want me to spoil that Joshu dies in the climax of Jojolion and was revealed to be a rock human

I mean come on

everyone knows this

[white beacon]

if this is a whole pure joke then i direct you to the direct channel please, also i think possible part9 theories are better in #jojo-overall-discussion i guess

i'm serious about the joke part, btw

[rotund haven]

My prediction for the end of this part

If my theory about Jojolion being 4-6 is correct

Gappy will gain a new stand/ability and then he will die

[white beacon]

yeah it does seem that S/W isn't the endgame for gappy

[rotund haven]

He monch on the rokaka to gain the lost parts of Killer Queen

And then he bite the dust

[white beacon]

gotta bite the fruit to bite the dust

[minor ore]

Josuke bites the fruit to trade S/W for KQ

don't kill Gappy

[granite sedge]

I don't see Gappy dying because Jojolion is basically alt!part 4. The one part where the main cast all survived.

At the very least I imagine him and Yasuho will survive.

[summer tree]

I mean if you want to directly parallel

But tbf Dio lived past Part 1 onto Part 3

And Diego died....twice

[minor ore]

if we were to pretend part 7 was parts 1-3, then that seems accurate lol

[granite sedge]

I could see Josuke getting split up at the end, would that count as him dying?

[white beacon]

i guess, because josuke is no more

[minor ore]

i thought kira ded

no wait

he's the alive parts of both people

[granite sedge]

Honestly, I'm just wondering what it means for the probable part 9 if Josuke dies.

[minor ore]

yea, so he won't

[versed crown]

Part 9 will be part 5

[minor ore]

he and yasuho need to make babies

[versed crown]

Or something

[granite sedge]

There are a few possibilities there I think?

[white beacon]

there's kyo, and joseph's brothers and sisters, so there's still something to branch off of

[granite sedge]

Part 9's Jojo could be Josuke and Yasuho's kid, or it could be Kyo's.

If Josuke got split up, it could even be Kira's.

[minor ore]

nono, he needs to descend from josuke's tree

or she

[white beacon]

not really, i mean, part 4 didn't descend from jotaro

so who's to say that part 9 will descend from josuke

[granite sedge]

I imagine part 9 will be alt!part 5/6 and star Josuke and Yasuho's daughter. At least that's the idea I always got.

[kind owl]

@granite sedge, Your Gangstar cred is now level 1 !

[minor ore]

but you know, we don't have a lot of JoJos to descend from this time

[granite sedge]

Knowing Araki though, it could be like... Yasuho dies, Josuke is single forever, and the Jojo is Kyo's kid.

Though I'd bet my life on Yasuho surviving.

[white beacon]

the joseph in this universe has many siblings, so could be from their descendants if possible

[summer tree]

Either that or Araki is just like

[granite sedge]

It's theorized Josefumi is a Joestar too, since I think in one panel he had the birthmark?

It could even be Josefumi and Karera's kid or something.

[summer tree]

"You missed it they banged offscreen"

[white beacon]

or we could get a shizuka for part9, a jojo that isn't blood related to the jojos

[minor ore]

main universe shizuka needs her own series

[versed crown]

A shizuka spin off

[granite sedge]

That just seems like a waste though, given the multitude of interesting options for part 9's Jojo.

[summer tree]

I heaed somebody offer the idea of the next protag being twins

I thought that was interesting

[minor ore]

i heard that too

and yes

it's interesting

[summer tree]

And then I ruined the conversation by saying they should be Italian incest sisters

[granite sedge]

If the part 9 Jojo is actually a set of twins, I'm calling it now. They eat a rokakaka fruit and become one person to win the final battle.

[minor ore]

part 9 JoJo is Jesus

[white beacon]

so...part 8 all over again?

[minor ore]

Joshua Joestar

[granite sedge]

I could see the corpse parts coming in somehow.

There's no way those won't be relevant again.

[minor ore]

it's just the one corpse, now no?

[granite sedge]

Was it?

[minor ore]

or does it lack a head

[white beacon]

yeah, the completed one

[summer tree]

I mean some organization took it

[granite sedge]

I could see Araki using the fruit to make the part 9 Jojo fuse with the corpse to become Jesus.

[summer tree]

Covered up Johnny's death, those fuckers

[granite sedge]

So maybe the Jesus is part 9 Jojo thing isn't that far off?

[white beacon]

probably, i mean, we did see actual jesus in part7

[summer tree]

I still kinda want futuristic Jojo

I want Araki to handle a scifi setting

[minor ore]

probably would be

lol

[summer tree]

I mean imagine this

Araki skipped a whole century

[minor ore]

JJL is set in 2011, right?

[summer tree]

For Parts 7 and 8

[granite sedge]

Part 8 except every Stand is Paisley Park.

[summer tree]

And now he skips another century

[minor ore]

2111

[summer tree]

An we get SPACE GANGSTER LESBIAN INCEST JOESTAR TWINS

[granite sedge]

Do you think part 9 will be more part 5 or part 6?

Part 8 is alt!part 4 with story inspirations from part 3.

I'm thinking part 9 is alt!part 6 with inspiration from part 5.

[summer tree]

I think Part 9 will be some combination of Parts 5 and 6

Since Part 7 is supposed to reflect Parts 1-3

[granite sedge]

I'm definitely banking on the part 9 Jojo being alt!Jolyne.

[summer tree]

Giorno/Jolyne combo

Italian female Jojo

[minor ore]

the final JoJo

[granite sedge]

The problem with a hypothetical part 9 though is that part 9 would almost certainly be the last one.

[kind owl]

@granite sedge, Your Gangstar cred is now level 2 !

[granite sedge]

If it's disconnected setting-wise like part 5 was, it might not feel like the final part.

Which is an issue since part 3 and part 6 both felt like they could feasibly be the end of the series.

[minor ore]

it's the connecting tissue to the original universe

all JoJos come together

like EoH

[granite sedge]

I dunno, I can't really see Araki doing that?

[summer tree]

I don't want to believe that Araki just went and

[granite sedge]

Although everything in the SBRverse is so different from the original universe that it's really hard to have any idea what he'll do next.

[summer tree]

Made 3 parts in a separate universe because

He was "running out of ideas for the original universe"

I mean hell, why can't all this stuff happen in the Ireneverse?

Why does it have to be separate?

[granite sedge]

I think he just wanted to try different ideas. It's hard to imagine parts 7 and 8 happening in the original/Ireneverse because of how out there they are.

[minor ore]

it's symbolic, i guess

[granite sedge]

They try so many different things that feel completely disconnected from the original universe to me.

That's not a bad thing, but I think it does justify the SBRverse existing.

[summer tree]

But like I just don't want the original universe to just be

GONE

[minor ore]

part 6 to me seemed lacking as a good-bye to the previous universe

[summer tree]

Alright crack pot theory time
Part 8 Kira is the father of Irene

[minor ore]

how old was josefumi?

as old as yasuho?

we know kira is 29

[granite sedge]

I think the problem with the end of part 6 was just kind of how... fast it was?

MiH was so fast that none of the cast except Jolyne really got a proper sendoff.

They were there, then they weren't. That was pretty much it.

I think it would've gone a long way towards making part 6 be a better sendoff if Jolyne had been the survivor.

And I say this as someone who appreciates and enjoys the thematic relevance of her dying the way she did.

[summer tree]

I think it relies on something

If Araki will ever come back to the ending

If Parts 8 or 9 or whatever revisit the concept of Made in Heaven

Which seems likely as we've gotten the return of The World and Killer Queen so far

We be able to revisit the Ireneverse

[granite sedge]

I mean, I wouldn't put it past Araki. There are already theories that Josuke will get King Crimson at some point.

[summer tree]

(Why is that a theory again?)

[granite sedge]

Good question, honestly.

I mean, it'd be cool, but I question why people think that.

[minor ore]

why would he ever get KC

he doesn't even have KQ

[granite sedge]

I think it's just the fact that all the Higashikatas except him have 'King' in their Stand name?

Even if there are weird technicalities like Walking Heart and Awaking III Leaves.

[summer tree]

Wait a second

[minor ore]

cuz his is the queen

[summer tree]

I hadn't even thought of that lol

[white beacon]

that, and that gappy is kinda somehwat two people

[summer tree]

The fact that the whole family has King stands could relate to King Crimson

Ha, never though of that one

[granite sedge]

I mean, his personality fluctuates enough that I wouldn't put it past Araki to have something like that happen.

[summer tree]

(Does that mean the Part 8 anime would try to shove Emporer in all of their names?)

[granite sedge]

I do have to wonder if Kaato's Stand will also have King in the name.

I'm betting on hers being a Queen.

[minor ore]

Kira's is the Queen

Killer Queen, anyone?

did y'all forget about that

[white beacon]

nah i bet kaato's is still a king stand, since mitsuba's a king stand though she isn't a blood-related higashikata

[granite sedge]

If Kaato is the final villain like a lot of people (myself included) think she is, I definitely think she'll have a Queen name as a parallel between her and Josuke/Kira.

I've heard Queens of the Stone Age suggested as a possible name.

[minor ore]

I hope Kaato ends up being a good person

with the main villain not a higashikata

but that seems unlikely

how many chapters would they have to develop a satisfying arc

[granite sedge]

I think it's been said that the plot will converge after the current arc. So I think we're about to go into the part 8 equivalent of D4C soon.

[white beacon]

probably at least 20

[granite sedge]

There's no way the villain isn't someone we already know.

[minor ore]

that's what i fear

[granite sedge]

Jobin and Kaato are the obvious suspects.

I could see Araki throwing us all for a loop though and having it turn out to be Holly.

[minor ore]

then Norisuke comes out of left field as the true villain

[granite sedge]

I mean, King Nothing is incredibly cool-looking and cool-sounding.

[minor ore]

King Nothing's real abilities were just hidden

[granite sedge]

It's definitely the kind of thing I could see a villain having, especially since we don't know the stats or the full range of its abilities.

All of the candidates in my head (Kaato, Jobin, Holly, Norisuke) all have Stands but we either straight-up have no clue what they are, or it's heavily implied we didn't see the full range of their abilities.

[kind owl]

@granite sedge, Your Gangstar cred is now level 3 !

[minor ore]

the thing about the villain being someone we know is just that this part kinda relied mostly on stand users that hide themselves from the heroes

[granite sedge]

And the most suspicious people all have very mysterious Stands.

[minor ore]

but even then, we know who the users are even when the characters don't

[granite sedge]

The villain could be a reverse of the typical formula.

User in plain sight, Stand in the shadows.

[minor ore]

true

Kaato would definitely make sense the most with that

or Holly

but i'd like to think Hollies are good people

[granite sedge]

I mean, you can't deny Holly is suspicious.

How much do we really know about her?

[minor ore]

we don't

[granite sedge]

Even less than Kaato, and that's saying something.

[minor ore]

she might be involved in the rock doctors conspiracy or some shit

[versed crown]

Holly has killer queen

[granite sedge]

One minor problem with Holly being the villain is her design.

Jojo villains have distinct, out there designs.

Holly... doesn't really?

The other major suspects do, but hers is kind of plain in comparison.

I can see her being the villain from a narrative standpoint. If anything, she's the most suspicious candidate we've got.

But visually, I can't see her as the final boss.

[minor ore]

Jobin definitely has the most villainous look

[granite sedge]

Jobin feels to me more like a Diego-type character. The rival rather than the big bad.

[minor ore]

which he most likely is

[granite sedge]

It's hard to tell for sure, since Jojo never played with that archetype until part 7, but I can't see him as the main villain.

They're trying to make us think he is, but I think he's a red herring.

[minor ore]

inb4 the final boss is just a horde of rock people

[granite sedge]

I mean, it could very well be like part 7 where the main villain isn't the final boss.

For all intents and purposes the story was over after Johnny took down Funny Valentine, but Diego was the real final boss.

I could see Kaato as the main villain but then Jobin is the final boss.

[minor ore]

to me, Diego's last appearance was more of a fanservice-y thing tbh

just well-done

the corpse still ended up where it was meant to go, just in a different way

was Rina's disease even the rock disease

she's not the first born 🤔

[granite sedge]

...Have they ever actually elaborated on what the rock disease does to people?

The running theory seems to be that the Higashikata rock disease is what Holly has, but I'm not so sure.

Also, I think it was like... Johnny and Rina's child got it, then Johnny used the corpse, it got redirected to Rina, then Johnny himself took it on and then died?

[minor ore]

Rina actually got it first

then it got redirected to their kid

but Rina's disease seemed different

it made her skin fold like origami

[granite sedge]

Hmm...

That sounds familiar.

Doesn't Jobin have those weird line/fold things on his face?

[minor ore]

yea

and he somehow cured himself

wtf did he trade

[granite sedge]

Think this has any link to what Holly has?

We haven't seen any visual effects from her disease, but she's also being treated by highly qualified (and shady) doctors.

[white beacon]

wasn't jobin's rock-disease-like-disease cured in that backstory?

[minor ore]

oh right

forgot

[white beacon]

where kaato used some random kid to pass it on

[granite sedge]

Oh, that.

[minor ore]

Oh hmm

thought they just went and buried the kid

[granite sedge]

I wonder... Maybe Holly's disease will be cured in a similar way?

[minor ore]

tbh the rokakaka doesn't seem all that worth it to me

[granite sedge]

Like, maybe they use the fruit to give it to someone else. I could see that happening if she's the main villain after all.

[minor ore]

unless you're very desperate

might be what the new rokakaka does?

[granite sedge]

I think that's the whole lesson behind this latest arc.

The Rokakaka sounds good on paper, but it will cost you dearly.

[minor ore]

from the beginning the whole rokakaka business was just preying on desperate people

[granite sedge]

It makes me wonder why everyone wants it so badly.

I think there's still something we don't know.

[minor ore]

the key is the new rokakaka

and josuke

man, there's still so much we don't know that i don't really see JJL ending soon

[granite sedge]

I think we've still got a few years left.

I've heard around 125 chapters suggested as an end point, and that sounds fair to me.

[minor ore]

yea, definitely sounds ideal

[granite sedge]

I do wonder how it'll all be tied together though.

We've got Jobin, Kaato, and Holly as plausible main villain suspects, we've got the new organization that Tomoki is from, there's the old organization that I'm not sure we ever found out who was running the thing (was it Damo or am I remembering wrong?), there's the whole thing with Johnny because there's obviously something else going on there...

Part 8 could be one of the very best parts of Jojo if it's all tied together well.

[minor ore]

and Josuke still wants his memories back

[summer tree]

But it could be the worst

It depends on how Araki does it

[granite sedge]

I mean, it's not gonna be worse than like, the first two or three parts.

Part 8 still has a lot to love.

Which for me is mainly Jobin and Yasuho, but still.

It could definitely fall flat though.

It's so ambitious that it'll either be one of the best or one of the worst with no in-between.

[minor ore]

with a title like JoJolion, I'm led to believe there's something deeper about all this

[granite sedge]

We still don't know what that title actually means, do we?

[kind owl]

@granite sedge, Your Gangstar cred is now level 4 !

[minor ore]

JoJo+evangelion

[granite sedge]

It's pretty clear with all the other parts (especially 6 and 7), but it seems vague here.

I'm not sure that was ever confirmed.

[minor ore]

i mean what else could it be

evangelion just means gospel

or something

anyway, araki said so

The "lion" in the title"Jojolion" means things like "blessed thing", "evangelistic", and "commemorative seal". It's a word from ancient Greek or something like that. By combining this word with "Jojo", I've meant for the title to signify the existence of the protagonist "Josuke" in this world. It's also used in the name of the tragic king in a Greek myth called "Pygmalion" as well as the Japanese animation "Evangelion", but I'm not sure if it has to do with the same idea.

[granite sedge]

Hmm... I'm leaning more towards Pygmalion, personally.

Particularly because of all the royal symbolism in part 8.

All the Kings running around.

I'm gonna file this as evidence that Norisuke Higashikata is a fucking goner.

[minor ore]

huh true

[granite sedge]

Honestly, I could see the entire Higashikata family dying?

Norisuke and Jobin are definite goners, and I could really see Joshu and Hato biting the dust too.

That is, if Araki ever remembers that Hato exists and did stuff that one time and was actually pretty cool.

[minor ore]

the thing is, they all seem to be just regular folk who happen to have stands

and they have a weird disease

[granite sedge]

It's hard to see them as regular people though when we consider everything that's happened.

[minor ore]

they're involved in the story, but at the same time they're not

it's weird

[granite sedge]

They're rich as hell, they're plagued by a weird disease, the mom is a convicted criminal, the oldest kid is involved in a potentially world-impacting conspiracy, they're linked to the Joestars...

They should be and feel like regular people, but they really don't seem like it to me.

[minor ore]

okay actually, it's just that Hato, Joshu, and Daiya to me feel pretty disconnected

from everything

[granite sedge]

They're kind of the odd ones out.

Hato and Joshu feel relevant sometimes, but not all the time.

I hope they become more involved once Kaato gets more screentime.

Since she's kind of been in the shadows so far.

[minor ore]

we're getting a Mitsuba arc before a Kaato arc

so odd

[pastel kestrel]

i dont mind, stands p cool

[kind owl]

@pastel kestrel, Your Gangstar cred is now level 2 !

[granite sedge]

I figured Mitsuba would just be a background character forever.

I'm glad to be wrong.

This arc is probably my favorite arc in Jojolion so far.

Awaking III Leaves is a super cool Stand, and it's nice that Yasuho is finally getting her own arc independent of Josuke.

[minor ore]

yea, girl's been neglected

they want her to not get involved with the family's curse but they use her when they need her

and she just disappears at odd times

[granite sedge]

It's kind of annoying, honestly.

Yasuho is probably my favorite part 8 character.

I'd probably put her in my top ten Jojo characters overall by this point.

[minor ore]

I hope she doesn't get thrown by the wayside after this arc again

she should be there alongside josuke

[granite sedge]

I think the plot is supposed to kick into high gear after this arc, if I recall correctly.

[pastel kestrel]

oooooo

fun time

[granite sedge]

So I think she'll probably be a major force up until either the end, or until she dies.

Not that she'll die. I would bet my soul that Yasuho Hirose survives part 8.

[pastel kestrel]

rais probably gonna die eventually tho

its gonna be just like avdol

[granite sedge]

Oh yeah, Rai is gone.

Yasuho lives, Josuke is a toss-up, and Rai is totally gonna die.

[pastel kestrel]

i really hope josuke doesnt die

[granite sedge]

I wish I cared more about him, honestly.

But he just doesn't really do it for me?

I think I might have gotten my expectations up too much.

[minor ore]

I really like Josuke

[granite sedge]

Giorno, Jolyne, and Johnny are three of my favorites, so I was hoping for four in a row.

[minor ore]

he's so nonchalant about stuff

[granite sedge]

For me, Josuke has the spotlight stolen from him by Yasuho or Jobin whenever one of them is on-screen.

[minor ore]

hmm to me Josuke and Yasuho are about equal

they play off of each other well

[granite sedge]

Yeah, I can get behind that. Neither one would be nearly as good without the other.

At this point I think Yasuho can really shine on her own, she's been great in the current arc.

But she wouldn't have gotten there without Josuke.

And I do really like the ship that Araki seems to have been setting up. They make a really cute couple.

[minor ore]

I mean, it's been set up since the beginning

[granite sedge]

Yeah. You wouldn't think so but Araki can actually write a decent romance.

Josuke and Yasuho are a great couple, and Johnny and Gyro would work as a couple if Araki spun it that way.

Pun not intended.

[minor ore]

lol

gyro doesn't seem like the type to fall for someone like johnny tbh

if he swung that way

[granite sedge]

Yeah, I see what you mean.

I do like the ship, but it's not very realistic.

Johnny and Gyro definitely have the best dynamic in Jojo though.

Josuke and Yasuho are a decent second though. And their story isn't over.

[minor ore]

yea, i get blue-balled when Josuke and Yasuho separate after meeting in one to two pages

like, what the hell, araki?

[granite sedge]

It's frustrating because they really do bounce off each other so well.

I'd probably like Josuke a lot more if he and Yasuho got more consistent screentime together.

But Araki tends to either have Yasuho be the center of attention, or not a thing at all with no in-between.

[minor ore]

whenever he pulls them apart, it feels so... intentional

and after they rescued rai, yasuho was talking the whole time to rai about her backstory .-.

josuke was walking farther up ahead

[granite sedge]

Yeah, you'd think she'd want to tell her best friend/love interest instead of a dude she just met.

[kind owl]

@granite sedge, Your Gangstar cred is now level 5 !

[granite sedge]

Although I did still really enjoy that chapter. I'd say it's what put Yasuho in my top ten.

[minor ore]

yea, their banter up in the lift was nice

and of course josuke refusing to abandon her

[granite sedge]

It just occurred to me why she doesn't really get her own dedicated arcs very often.

Paisley Park is such a technical-type, passive Stand that it's hard to write for.

It looks like Mitsuba is the offensive presence in this arc.

[minor ore]

Josuke's stand seems hard to write for too, tbh

[granite sedge]

You know the complaint people have about Gold Experience and how it does whatever the plot needs it to?

[minor ore]

especially since araki seemed to remove its plunder ability

[granite sedge]

I always got that feeling from Soft and Wet way more than I did from Gold Experience.

[minor ore]

idk, to me S&W doesn't do enough

[granite sedge]

It's just so convenient and its set of powers is so loosely-defined.

[minor ore]

i don't think Josuke has won by himself recently

[granite sedge]

I dunno, maybe I'm viewing it wrong and it's more of a Stone Free type than a Gold Experience type. That is to say, has one ability with a ton of versatile applications.

But a lot of things Josuke does just come across as asspulls to me.

[minor ore]

it's definitely the stone free type to me

I don't even recall anything significant Josuke has pulled

[granite sedge]

It's weird because Soft and Wet is probably one of my least favorite Jojo Stands, but Stone Free is my favorite in the series.

[minor ore]

it's not as egregious as say, making objects into body parts and putting people back together with them

[granite sedge]

Yeah, a lot of Soft and Wet's feats feel forgettable to me.

Most of Josuke's significant victories came from other people, or they were unconventional fights anyway.

[minor ore]

makes me think his stand will change somehow tbh

[granite sedge]

The biggest example to me is Vitamin C, which Hato won anyway.

[minor ore]

yep yep

i think his only "solo" victory was fun fun fun?

oh and king bed

[granite sedge]

Yeah, he doesn't feel like he accomplishes as much on his own.

He always leans on someone else to win. Yasuho, Norisuke, Hato, Rai, etc.

[minor ore]

it's so weird

he's one of the most driven JoJos, but he actually hasn't won a lot of battles on his own

i'm fascinated by him

he definitely feels like a just-put-together person

[kind owl]

@minor ore, Your Gangstar cred is now level 14 !

[granite sedge]

Yeah. He feels disjointed in a lot of ways, and there are clear disconnects between some of his personality traits, but he makes it work.

I don't think he's as well-written as Jolyne or Johnny were, but he's definitely a cleverly written character in that he feels like the messy person he's supposed to be.

Like someone who's still figuring out who they are.

[minor ore]

exactly

[granite sedge]

But I do hope he accomplishes more in the near future, especially since the plot seems like it's about to get serious.

I don't think he can lean on everyone else for much longer.

[minor ore]

my guess is stand change

or transformation

there's gotta be something else to him

[granite sedge]

But what would bring about such a thing?

[minor ore]

all he's got is josefumi's stand when he's two people

[summer tree]

I don't know why but Gappy is still like my

[minor ore]

i don't know yet

[summer tree]

Third favorite protag

[minor ore]

same

[summer tree]

With only Jolyne and Johnny above him

[minor ore]

mine would be Josuke4, Jolyne, and then Josuke8

[summer tree]

Johnny > Jolyne > Gappy > Josuke > Joseph > Jotaro > Jonathan > Giorno

[granite sedge]

I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but for me it goes...

[minor ore]

gappy can still drop in the ranks for me though

since his story's not over yet

[granite sedge]

Jotaro, Johnny, Jolyne, Giorno, Josuke, Gappy, Joseph, Jonathan.

I do hope I come to like Gappy more though.

[minor ore]

no shame in that

Jotaro actually improved to me after part 3

part 4 jotaro is the best

[summer tree]

People love Part 4 Jotaro the most

Usually

I do hope the anime makes me raise Giorno some

[granite sedge]

I always feel bad about saying how much I love Jotaro and Giorno since they get so much crap.

[summer tree]

Because I like his depiction in the anime more so far

[minor ore]

I'm okay with Giorno tbh

he's meant to be a much more subdued character

[granite sedge]

It's refreshing since he's sandwiched between two of the Jojos with the strongest, most dynamic personalities.

Josuke and Jolyne have forceful personalities, so it's nice to get a more subdued, calm protag.

[minor ore]

he definitely feels like he's Jonathan's kid

and he's got Dio's ruthlessness, I guess?

in certain situations

[summer tree]

You see I didn't really like Giorno because he was just kind of

THERE

[granite sedge]

Giorno is one of the most gratuitously cruel Jojos, honestly.

He's downright monstrous towards opponents.

[summer tree]

He more so existed to support the rest of the group

[minor ore]

that's what we mean by a subdued character

[granite sedge]

Actually, that's something I like about Gappy too.

Giorno and Gappy are incredibly cruel and ruthless to their opponents.

It makes them interesting to watch.

[minor ore]

and Josuke is like the middle ground to them all

[granite sedge]

Josuke is probably the most well-rounded Jojo.

Him or Jolyne.

They both have well-rounded personalities that take a lot from their predecessors and make it their own.

But I'd say Jolyne does it better.

[minor ore]

which is why i like them both so much

Jolyne covers the more mature side

and Josuke covers the... less mature side

lol

[granite sedge]

Yeah. They really work for their stories.

Though Josuke gets sidelined by Koichi sometimes in the first half and Rohan in the second.

[minor ore]

Josuke still got a lot of time in the limelight

[granite sedge]

That's why Jolyne is a favorite of mine. She's always relevant. It's her story and there's never any doubt about that.

Josuke doesn't get it as bad as Jotaro and Giorno, but it still happens to him sometimes.

[minor ore]

sadly, Jolyne prolly has the weakest cast of side characters

while Josuke has some of the most memorable ones

there's tradeoffs to both of them

[granite sedge]

FF and Weather were the best side characters in part 6, but FF died earlier than the rest.

[minor ore]

and Weather was relevant for what? 2 arcs?

then he died right after

[granite sedge]

I still say it should've been Ermes instead of FF. She really didn't have much to do after the Sports Maxx arc.

Although I guess the time she and Jolyne heckled an alligator was fun.

[minor ore]

lol yea

[granite sedge]

Part 6 was one of the funnier parts for me.

Jolyne is one of the most mature Jojos by the end of it, but she gets some great lines.

[minor ore]

I always love posting this

[granite sedge]

I sent that to a friend of mine a few days ago. They haven't gotten to part 6, but they already love Jolyne and have declared her their wife.

[minor ore]

lmao

[granite sedge]

Sometimes it's just love at first sight.

Aka me with Jotaro back when I was getting into Jojo.

[minor ore]

i didn't really expect to like her as much as i did

thought she would be uh what's the word? stereotypical

[granite sedge]

Yeah, I was worried about that too. Female action heroes can be a tricky territory to deal with.

[minor ore]

yea

[granite sedge]

But Jolyne turned out to be the most well-written, realistic, and interesting Jojo yet.

[minor ore]

her and johnny both

[granite sedge]

Yeah. I might like Jotaro more than those two, but they're in a totally different league writing-wise.

[minor ore]

same feeling, but with josuke

[stark fossil]

They're cruel but it's not like the enemies don't deserve it

I'd call them ruthless

[minor ore]

yep, exactly what i called giorno

[stark fossil]

ah yeah sorry

[limpid veldt]

Next chapter be like

[dusky geyser]

I would be scared if the next chapter did that.

[limpid veldt]

Ive been scared since Joshuu got flushed down the sink

[kind owl]

@limpid veldt, Your Gangstar cred is now level 4 !

[white beacon]

sorry, deleted it because it was inappropriate, even though i know what you're trying to say

[dusky geyser]

When I saw those tiny arms at the end of the chapter, I got shook.

[limpid veldt]

Baby STAND

[stark fossil]

What is Awaking III Leaves a reference to?

Searching it on YouTube... isn't helpful

The Wikia doesn't know either

[dusky geyser]

In before Hamon Beat makes an updated video of the reference.

[flat vale]

This might startle some of you and you must forgive me for making the statement, but there is no written rule saying all stands MUST be referring to something

[stark fossil]

Sure but I'm just used to it

[flat vale]

If you recall Gyro's Scan stand ability thing didn't have a namesake

[stark fossil]

Do you remember what it was called

[summer tree]

it was just called scan

but the point is

it wasn't a stand

it's not like hamon

was named after something

or the word stand for that matter

[gentle edge]

the spin

is technically SBRU's hamon

[summer tree]

yeah I know

but saying that an ability of the SPIN

should be a musical name

that's not required

in fact I'm not sure if the scan ability

has a name

[cyan sierra]

I have no idea what goes on in jojolion

[granite sedge]

Does anybody?

Jojolion is weird.

[minor ore]

maybe that's what araki was going for

[granite sedge]

It puts Stone Ocean to shame in the weirdness department.

Although they actually have some similarities.

[cyan sierra]

yup

[granite sedge]

They both focus on body horror way more than any of the other parts.

I think this latest arc has more body horror than any other arc in Jojo?

[cyan sierra]

tru

[granite sedge]

It's hard to top a fucking impromptu abortion.

[cyan sierra]

what about

cheap trick arc

[minor ore]

I think JJL has the most body horror

[granite sedge]

Oh, definitely. SO had a lot too, but a lot of that was because of the mechanics of Jolyne's Stand.

Stone Free essentially weaponized body horror when you think about it.

[minor ore]

stone free gave me the creeps

not the punch ghost

but the ability

[granite sedge]

Yeah, but I also really enjoyed the ability.

[cyan sierra]

I need proof that jojolion is the most horrific

[kind owl]

@cyan sierra, Your Gangstar cred is now level 3 !

[minor ore]

doggystyle is a much better version

less creepy

[granite sedge]

It felt like Jolyne herself was fighting instead of having her Stand do the work for her, which gave her fights a really... raw, intense sort of feeling that we don't actually get from Jojo very often.

[cyan sierra]

stone ocean is a bdsm stand

[granite sedge]

This latest arc and the Vitamin C arc alone make Jojolion more horrifying than any other part.

Those and Blue Hawaii. That one was scary too.

[minor ore]

even Johnny and Gyro fought more than their stands, i think

or their punch ghosts just rarely came out

[cyan sierra]

the scariest stand in all parts in my opinion is purple haze

the fact that it's so uncontrollable freaks me out

[granite sedge]

Gyro didn't have an actual Stand until the final battle though, so that doesn't really count.

[kind owl]

@granite sedge, Your Gangstar cred is now level 6 !

[minor ore]

no he did

in true man's world

i think that was the first time his stand took form

[granite sedge]

Part 7 fights didn't have the same feeling as part 6 fights since part 7 was a lot more projectile-based. It didn't involve getting up close and personal like a lot of Jolyne's battles did.

My memory of part 7 is a little murky, so I'll have to look it up.

[cyan sierra]

part 7
protagonist literally shoots his fingernails like bullets

[minor ore]

I don't blame you, they barely acknowledge that he has a stand

[granite sedge]

At the very least I know Gyro's Stand didn't take form until the battle with Valentine.

That was the first (and last) time we ever saw it.

[cyan sierra]

I feel like most stands from part 3 to part 6 were particularly close ranged

[minor ore]

the first instance gyro used scan

[granite sedge]

Honestly, as much as I adore part 7, I don't think it actually had a lot of impressive fights?

[minor ore]

to see inside the cabin

[granite sedge]

It's my second favorite, but primarily for the characters and story.

[cyan sierra]

funny Valentine happens to be my favorite jojo antagonist

[minor ore]

true man's world, the final battle against valentine, the standoff against wekapipo and magenta magenta

off the top of my head

my personal favorites

oh and blackmore

but that was short

[granite sedge]

The final battle with Funny Valentine is my favorite arc in Jojo, honestly. It was so goddamn long, but every chapter was amazing.

I dunno if the climax of Jojolion will be able to top that.

It can if everything comes together well enough, but I question if that'll be the case.

[minor ore]

ballbreaker in true man's world

[granite sedge]

Whoa, what?

How'd I never notice that before?

Did I just forget?

[minor ore]

it was so brief

i think it's literally just that panel lol

[granite sedge]

It's so hard to figure out what's going on in parts 7 and 8 sometimes.

They're so different from everything before them, and even if it's frustrating I really like that.

[minor ore]

it's refreshing, but still undeniably JoJo

[granite sedge]

I've been enjoying part 8 more as of late. It's so fun to speculate about.

I can't imagine it was this fun to theorize about other parts as they came out.

[minor ore]

true

[dusky geyser]

Also, the internet was less advanced back in those days.

[minor ore]

I think SBR would just be people wondering when they'd get to the next checkpoint or something

[dusky geyser]

Or how the corpse parts would come together in the end.

[minor ore]

oh yea

[granite sedge]

Part 8 has so many unpredictable plot threads and mysterious characters.

[minor ore]

or who gets what corpse part

[granite sedge]

I worry that the time-old issue of 'Araki forgot' will really bite Jojolion later, but for now it's a really interesting story.

[dusky geyser]

Speaking of bites, one major plot hole so far is those mysterious "bite marks" on Josuke, Joshu, and Yasuho.

[granite sedge]

Did Joshu and Yasuho have them too?

I thought it was just Josuke.

[minor ore]

doesn't seem like a plothole

some as of yet unexplained thing

[dusky geyser]

The bite marks were more prominent in the early chapters of the part.

[granite sedge]

I want to believe we'll get an explanation for those.

But if we do, I don't think we have all the pieces.

[minor ore]

doesn't really affect the plot in anyway because of the absence of its explanation

[granite sedge]

They're probably related to the Wall Eyes and what happened to Johnny.

[dusky geyser]

Josuke had it on his neck/shoulder. Joshu on his ankle, and Yasuho too. Then again, it's been 7 years since they were introduced and still no explaination.

[granite sedge]

Which is one of the more mysterious aspects of the plot because of just how absent they've been in the story.

[dusky geyser]

The same kind of goes for the Wall Eyes.

[minor ore]

honestly when i first started JJL, i thought it was gonna be some sort of junji-ito horror

constant mystery, weird folk all over morioh

it's just Josuke and Yasuho

and they can't trust anyone

[granite sedge]

Part 8 definitely feels like a remixed part 4, for the most part.

[minor ore]

and there's something horrific looming in the horizon

[granite sedge]

Same kind of setting, and there's a mystery the heroes need to solve.

I think the reason the story feels so different is that in part 4, we as viewers knew the answers to the mystery, even if the heroes didn't.

In part 8, we're as in the dark as they are.

[minor ore]

I really hope the answers are something deeper than "we want to take over the world"

or make everybody stone people

[granite sedge]

I still say Kaato and Holly are the biggest villain suspects. And I do have to question what their motives could be.

It seems like Kaato knew about Jobin's involvement in everything. Maybe her motive would be to take over the story so she could continue protecting him? Possibly the rest of her family too, but that might make her too sympathetic for Jojo's standards.

A theory I've had for a while is that her maiden name could have been Kaato Brando, which would be a nice way to tie Dio into the story again, and it opens up the potential for interesting motives.

[minor ore]

it fits, sorta

i mean, we didn't really know what diego was up to before the race

[granite sedge]

We know Dio certainly got around after he came back in part 3. Wouldn't surprise me if Diego had illegitimate descendants running around, and one of those ended up resulting in Kaato.

Diego is alt!Dio, so there's no way he doesn't become relevant again.

[minor ore]

but a part of me also feels like his "return" and subsequent second demise was symbolic

that that was it for Dio in this universe

[granite sedge]

Yeah, that would make sense. I dunno, I'm having a hard time coming up with a motive for any of our villain candidates.

Like, I can't think of a compelling reason why any of them would do this without making wild theories.

[minor ore]

definitely

Jobin to me has pretty clear motives

I don't think he has any other, deeper, motive

I think whoever the villain ends up being, they'd probably be someone who wants to kill/capture Josuke

[granite sedge]

Maybe the villain wants to get Josuke on their side? Split him up or something?

I'm thinking Kira might've had valuable info that the villain could want.

[minor ore]

they want to dissect him

[granite sedge]

That could be why the big bad hasn't made a real move yet.

Whoever it is, I think they've had the chance to kill Josuke.

But they haven't yet.

[minor ore]

everybody wants the new rokakaka

but maybe josuke's body has the real answers

it would be cool if they all team up to save josuke or something

[granite sedge]

Yeah, I'm thinking Josuke's memories have some kind of important info that nobody else knows.

Some key piece of the puzzle that the villain wants/needs to know.

[minor ore]

yea, there has to be more to his missing memories, right?

but whatever it is, it has to be with kira

kira was 29

[granite sedge]

That's definitely old enough to have important info in his mind.

[minor ore]

yep

[granite sedge]

Something about the latest arc I've been wondering about is whether or not Mitsuba knew about her Stand.

I feel like it'd be thematically appropriate for her to have just obtained Awaking III Leaves, but she already seems really competent with its usage, so I'm thinking she's had it for a while now.

[minor ore]

she knew

she has a name for it

[granite sedge]

Yeah, there's always a process to getting a Stand and she already seems to have gone through that.

She knows its name and abilities quite well.

It's a little unfortunate though because it would've been cool for her to have just awakened it.

I hope we see it again after this arc though. It has such a cool design and ability that it'd really suck if we never got to see her in action again.

There are a lot of things one could do with that power. It almost feels like the kind of ability I could see a main protag having.

[minor ore]

there has to be a reason the family has stands, right?

araki must have something planned for em

[granite sedge]

I'm thinking we'll see the entire Higashikata household have a confrontation with the big bad.

Like... Josuke, Norisuke, Hato, and Joshu vs Jobin and/or Kaato.

Mitsuba is a wild card there.

I could see this arc building her up to be an ally, since up until now she was closely aligned with one of the main antagonists.

[craggy belfry]

did the new issue come out today?

[minor ore]

yesterday

ish

[granite sedge]

Yeah, we know what Mitsuba's Stand does now.

It's really cool.

[minor ore]

the ability to control vectors

I think that's what it is

[hollow fog]

Ok now bare with me here

No i know i aint exactly no eintstein or steven hawking saying this

But i feel like the next logical upgrade for Josuke would be to be able to steal time

Now

Who does that sound that to you?

[minor ore]

josuke doesn't really have the plunder ability anymore tho

[hollow fog]

WHo else follows the name theming of the Higashikata family?

[minor ore]

he hasn't used it

so it's safe to say araki got rid of plunder

[hollow fog]

I mean maybe he did, maybe he didnt

[kind owl]

@hollow fog, Your Gangstar cred is now level 1 !

[hollow fog]

Hard to tell sometimes

I mean we got a character who was mentioned once and never again for seven years

and look where we are now

[minor ore]

who?

[hollow fog]

Uh

Jobins wife

[minor ore]

oh

well

i mean

[hollow fog]

Besides we all know araki just kinda...forgets things...sometimes

[granite sedge]

I think a lot of people like the idea of Josuke being able to steal time. If I recall correctly that idea is part of why people think he's going to get King Crimson.

Or something like it anyway.

[hollow fog]

It would be cool

I mean I like soft and Wet in design and power

But I do think Josuke will get an upgrade and a new stand

Because pardon me but that aint no yugioh fusion monster

[minor ore]

fingers crossed

not really a fan of the KC theory

but I think he will get a different stand

or S&W upgrade

[granite sedge]

I definitely think whatever his new Stand is, if/when it happens, it'll have a King name.

Soft and Wet is a Prince song, and I'm thinking this Prince becomes a King at some point.

[minor ore]

[craggy belfry]

so basically, Okuyasu > Yasuho

[minor ore]

it's neck and neck for me

but to be fair yasuho's story's not over yet

[craggy belfry]

yeah but

Okuyasu

[minor ore]

compelling argument. I really can't decide tbh

[granite sedge]

I definitely prefer Yasuho.

Even if how she's handled and her overall placement is questionable, she feels like she does a lot more.

Okuyasu felt kind of passive to me. His spotlight got stolen by Koichi and Rohan a lot.

Yasuho feels like she gets more screentime.

[craggy belfry]

Yasuho definitely has done a lot more, and it's clear Araki cares about her much more than Okuyasu

but

Okuyasu

[granite sedge]

Understandable. I dunno, Okuyasu never did it for me personally.

He was alright, but it's hard to acknowledge Okuyasu and Koichi as anything special for me when Josuke and especially Rohan were there.

[minor ore]

I like the goofball nature of okuyasu/josuke, but i also am a fan of the "romantic" chemistry between yasuho/gappy

since it's something different

[craggy belfry]

for me I'd say it's the other way around. (Excluding Okuyasu) Koichi did a majority of the actual stuff in the plot. He developed more, fought Kira to hold off for Jotaro once, stopped Kira a second time (with help from Okuyasu) and got a ton of development in his own arcs, even being backup more often than not for both Rohan and Josuke

[granite sedge]

Oh, I know Koichi did a lot in the story.

I just mean as characters, in regards to personal preference.

[minor ore]

I'm really glad Koichi exists

because Josuke could just be himself

[granite sedge]

I adored Kira and Rohan, so they were the standout characters of part 4 for me. Josuke was also really great. It's hard to appreciate Koichi and Okuyasu when I like them so much less than the other members of the main cast.

The real comparison we should make is... Koichi or Yasuho?

Which Hirose is better?

[minor ore]

yasuho for me

probably cause she's waifu material

so i'm biased

[granite sedge]

That's understandable. Yasuho is best Jojo waifu, honestly.

[minor ore]

truth

second to me is reimi

sad that she's a ghost

[craggy belfry]

ehhhh idk

[knotty sigil]

trish>>>

[craggy belfry]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this man has a johnny pfp you can trust him

[knotty sigil]

damn straight

[cyan sierra]

johnny is a vegetable

me no like vegetables

[granite sedge]

Fool. Johnny is second best Jojo.

[limpid veldt]

Too bad valentine killed him

I cant unsee

[sharp portal]

LOL

[granite sedge]

So you know those guys in part 7 with Valentine's hairstyle?

Like the winter catfish guy?

[sharp portal]

yeh

[limpid veldt]

They sure made him docile like a winter catfish

[sharp portal]

I think they might have been killed by Lucy's stand

[granite sedge]

I got spoiled about what D4C did and I really thought those guys were going to be Valentine clones.

[sharp portal]

Or, well, I guess it wasn't lucy's?

That whole thing is a bit confusing

I kinda wish whoever's stand that was we got to see more of it, a stand that doesn't deal any physical damage straight away but turns the opponent's luck stat to -100 seems like it'd be fun to see in fights

[granite sedge]

Might be fun as a main character Stand. Like, not a Jojo Stand, but their best friend or something.

I could see a hypothetical alt!Ermes having a Stand that messed with luck.

[sharp portal]

eh, yeah

Bruh imagine if the P9 ending ends like P6 but then the new universe is the original Jojo universe

Just an infinite loop

[minor ore]

i thought the winter catfish guys were valentines from other dimensions but for some reason they aged faster

[old marlin]

Why does no one post a link come on

[white beacon]

?

[old marlin]

Anyways

I like the simple backstory and motivation UU has

Reminds me of Kira heavily

It’s comforting and a little crazy to think we have a whole year left of Jojolion then it’s over

Even 92 chapters is pushing it there may be only half a year left or something like that

[white beacon]

UwU is such a cool character and yeha i agree it's nice. his motivation to never fail simply because he never has failed is quite interesting

maybe he's also trying to prove a point to those people who say that most people fail on the first try

[old marlin]

I took his ability of “breaking pieces off himself and reducing himself to dust, nothing more” speaks to how hard and relentlessly he works to either make ends meet or prove himself

It’s obvious he used the Rokkaka fruit to kill the baby Mitsuba had which shows how dedicated he is to getting results

[white beacon]

ah

so it's like, "he'd even sacrifice his body only to win" is what his ability is trying to symbolize?

[old marlin]

Yeah atleast that’s how interpreted it

There’s probably even more to it than that

Maybe like how he’s saying he’ll do anything it takes but maybe he’s only willing to do it to others if it could cause harm to him

[white beacon]

maybe

he's just broken inside...

sad UwU

[old marlin]

Ooooooo maybe that’s what drives him insane

The fear of losing for the first time

And that deeply scares him

[minor ore]

what's this about only being a year left of jojolion

[white beacon]

most likely speculation, i mean it's going longer than SBR at this rate

[minor ore]

i think it will tbh

i don't think we'll get satisfying answers with that short a time

i'm guessing 2 or 2 and a half or something

[old marlin]

We definitley could

Theres no way

You realize we have atleast 60 pages to fill in these last 2 months on average right

[white beacon]

i mean, araki could probably just do a whole infodump chapter that converges all of the main points togetehr after the hospital arc

[old marlin]

You could fit alot in that amount of time like araki usually does

[minor ore]

that's just bad

[old marlin]

82-90 is more than enough to progress the plot you’re saying something that doesnt pertain to reality

[minor ore]

with the way araki is pacing the chapters, it's really hard to believe it will conclude that soon

[old marlin]

Not saying it has to conclude im just saying it’s easy enough to wrap up Jojolion in that amount of time

[minor ore]

almost nothing new happened last chapter

[white beacon]

what

we got to see like, a rokakaka farm in the hospital

[old marlin]

In 10 chapters of SBR for example we got Gyro’s death, Valentine’s death, Tusk’s final evolution, Johnny’s closure with his dad, and an Ending to SBR

[white beacon]

and that uwu, and indirectly the smuggling corp, knows all about the higashikatas through mitsuba

[minor ore]

almost

and it's almost not new information since you coulda concluded that once you saw uwu doing something to mitsuba last chapter

[old marlin]

What about his development

What about the elaboration of his simple stand

There’s alot we’ve learned not just about UU but Mitsuba and Yasuho as a whole

[minor ore]

the thing is

[old marlin]

To say “almost nothing” is to discredit half the chapter

[minor ore]

those info are usually just stuff we learn so that the heroes beat the villain

and then we move on to the next

the plot's picking up the pace, sure, but it still feels far from the climax

well, that's how i feel about this whole thing

[old marlin]

If that’s how you feel i can respect that

[kind owl]

@old marlin, Your Gangstar cred is now level 13 !

[old marlin]

And i can agree that yes more than 90 chapters would be great (personally i dont want jojolion to end because it one of my favorite parts atm)

[minor ore]

we can just wait and see, i guess

[granite sedge]

Considering that the climax of SBR ran for well over 20 chapters, there's no way Jojolion ends in a year.

We're looking at at least 100 chapters.

[craggy belfry]

I gottat admit, we got like 60% of what's happening in the arc in the latest chapter

he could've summed up what happened in the previous 3 chapters in 2 instead

that's a whole extra chapter which is a lot when you think about how the person above mentioned how SBR was paced

[cedar palm]

I think its a valid point

It kinda feels like

Araki doesn't know 100% where he wants to go with the series

That's probably also a reason for monthly chapters

I also have a big problem with repetitive stuff when its kinda obvious but i have mercy with part 8

[granite sedge]

I wonder if Araki knows who he wants to be the main villain.

My personal hunch is Kaato, but Jobin has been extremely shady for ages now and has all the makings of a big bad.

And right now it feels like the signs point to Holly, especially considering where this arc is taking place.

[minor ore]

I wonder if Part 4 is the last time we'll get a truly happy ending

well, i guess it's not that happy for hayato and his mom

[cedar palm]

Part 5 is happy ending @minor ore

[kind owl]

@cedar palm, Your Gangstar cred is now level 1 !

[minor ore]

hmmm now that i think about it, i guess it is

sad that half the gang died tho

[granite sedge]

I could see part 8 having a happy-ish ending?

I can imagine Josuke and Yasuho both surviving.

Problem is that other major characters like Rai and Norisuke are absolute goners.

[cedar palm]

In my eyes

King nothing will probably die

I also see Kato or that doctor as a main villain

[minor ore]

the doctors must be another faction of rock people right?

[granite sedge]

The problem is that our main villain candidates all send mixed signals.

Kaato looks and acts like a villain, but it's hard to imagine how she's involved.

Jobin looks and acts like one, but he comes across as a red herring.

And it's easy to imagine Holly as the villain because she could feasibly have the connections, but she doesn't look or act the part.

Tomoki to me feels like the Green Day/Heavy Weather/Vanilla Ice. The second to last boss before it gets serious.

[minor ore]

yep

there's like an exponential increase in power level with him it seems

[nocturne charm]

its going to be some rock human mob boss

[granite sedge]

He feels like one of the biggest threats we've gotten in part 8 so far.

He's up there with Damo.

It's taken two extremely technical and versatile Stands to deal with Tomoki and it looks like he still has the upper hand.

I dunno how Yasuho and Mitsuba will get out of this, but I really hope Josuke doesn't show up to save the day again.

[minor ore]

they were running towards something

maybe they encountered the second doctor

or whoever else it was in the ambulance

my guess is next chapter begins from their perspective

[cedar palm]

Kaato sounds reasonable because wr basically know nothing about her stand

Im in love with walking heart tbh her arc was fucking sick bzw

Btw

[granite sedge]

Kaato's Stand seems to involve some kind of spatial/dimensional mechanics.

Who knows what other applications it has.

[minor ore]

maybe the rest of the higashikata family will be relevant again

spatial, you say?

[craggy belfry]

@cedar palm Kaato and Hato are differet. Kaato is the mom

[cedar palm]

Ikr

[minor ore]

sounds like a final villain stand

[cedar palm]

I just wanted to say that walking heart is sick

[granite sedge]

A theory I've heard is that the original universe villains all manipulated time, but the SBRverse villains manipulate space instead.

[minor ore]

yea

[craggy belfry]

ah

[cedar palm]

Haha

Im sorry

[granite sedge]

Which definitely sets Kaato up as the big bad.

[minor ore]

or the fact that she has a deck of cards

like she has the card-themed family in the palm of her hands

[craggy belfry]

Kaato is Gambit

[granite sedge]

She definitely has all the makings of a villain save for involvement.

[minor ore]

first female main villain

holy hell, lotsa arrows point towards her

[granite sedge]

She could've easily manipulated everything from behind the shadows in jail.

Who knows the full capabilities of her Stand?

It might even have some trick like teleporting to the location of any card in the deck. Which could easily be exploited by giving cards to valuable associates.

Her motive is a mystery, but maybe it'd be wanting vengeance on her husband for his perceived abandonment of her, by financially destroying the Higashikata family.

[minor ore]

seems lame, tbh

I feel like there's something deeper

a deeper conspiracy

something a lot more sinister

[granite sedge]

That's the one part where Kaato falls apart as the villain.

Why?

Why would she do this?

[minor ore]

i think Kaato still really cares about the family

[granite sedge]

It's hard to say she's the villain for sure until we have any kind of theory about her motive.

[minor ore]

whatever her reason is, I think it's for the "benefit" of the family

just like jobin

but different

like maybe jobin is her pawn

and jobin fails to see it cuz she saved his life

and yea, you're right

[granite sedge]

I definitely see the main villain having some kind of family-based motive.

Part 8's key theme is family.

[minor ore]

and we still have to find where the rock people fit in all this

and what the hell the wall eyes have to do with anything

[granite sedge]

I think the wall eyes will end up just being the catalyst of the beginning rather than any substantial part of the plot.

I imagine they're probably there because of the holy corpse.

[minor ore]

yea, you're right

i just realized that

[craggy belfry]

The Holy Corpse is back in the states though

[minor ore]

but i guess its effect is permanent

[craggy belfry]

yeah speaking of how long did johnny keep the corpse in the tree

[minor ore]

a few days?

i think the americans arrived soon after

main villain stand designs from best to worst?
I'm thinking killer queen>king crimson>white snake>D4C>the world>Made In Heaven>C-Moon

[craggy belfry]

wow why you gotta do C-Moon like that

[minor ore]

i don't like it

[cedar palm]

Kaato being connected to funny valentine sounds kinda plausible i mean both have a teleport like stand or like a putting things in new space

[craggy belfry]

The World > King Crimson > D4C > C-Moon = Killer Queen > White Snake > Made in Heaven

[minor ore]

interesting

[craggy belfry]

and interestingly enough, ability wise would also be the same order

[minor ore]

Made In Heaven tho

[craggy belfry]

Except Killer Queen would be above C-Moon

you know what yeah Made In Heaven would trump White Snake

but I like the others much more still

[minor ore]

i think it's at least the second strongest

oh, what you like best

[craggy belfry]

it's definitely the strongest if we are counting love train

[minor ore]

ah right

[craggy belfry]

he could probably beat love train too

probably

[cedar palm]

Made in heaven

[minor ore]

love train just doesn't seem to be a separate stand

[cedar palm]

Can love train end

In any way

[minor ore]

yea

[cedar palm]

I mean when the universe speedsup

[craggy belfry]

by removing the parts I gues?

[minor ore]

when you move the corpse away

[craggy belfry]

no not in that way

[cedar palm]

Ya then love train is free

[craggy belfry]

if so the corpse would've deteriorated long ago

[granite sedge]

So if Kaato was connected to Funny Valentine, would her maiden name by Kaato Valentine? As in, valentine card?

[cedar palm]

Damn

That sounds too good

[granite sedge]

I can't decide if that'd be the best or the worst thing ever.

[minor ore]

gonna have to come up with how Valentine managed to have an offspring

[granite sedge]

I mean, the guy was almost 50, right? He could've easily had a kid.

[minor ore]

oh lol yea

[craggy belfry]

where would their kid be is a better question

unless they grew up already

[granite sedge]

I'm thinking the kid would probably be out of the house and therefore out of the picture already.

[minor ore]

SBR was 100 years ago

[granite sedge]

Which lets Jojolion establish their existence without creating a plot hole in SBR.

[minor ore]

that's what? 2 generations?

[granite sedge]

Yeah, especially since Kaato is in her early 50s.

[craggy belfry]

apparently Funny's wife met him 15 years before the Steel Ball Run

so the child most likely would not have been out of the house yet

unless he was studying abroad or something

[granite sedge]

Oh.

Yeah, they could've just sent the kid away to study abroad.

[craggy belfry]

that is a possible retcon for Araki

[granite sedge]

I get the impression that the Valentines wouldn't have been the most loving of parents, especially not when a kid might get in the way of his plans.

[craggy belfry]

apparently Scarlett said he had a very warm personality so he could've been a good da

*dad

[granite sedge]

I mean, he could've sent their kid away so said kid wouldn't get hurt.

[kind owl]

@granite sedge, Your Gangstar cred is now level 8 !

[craggy belfry]

I feel like most of the evil stuff Araki made Valentine do were little things that he threw in just to solidify that Valentine was a villain and not a super noble man

I mean, I'm EXTREMELY patriotic and even I see why he was a villain

[granite sedge]

Valentine was definitely a nobler villain than most Jojo big bads.

[craggy belfry]

he didn't need the corpse parts to make the country better but he went out of his way to find them and make the country reject its misfortune to every other country

[granite sedge]

His goals were intensely questionable, but if you take away a lot of the evil shit he does, he might not be such a bad person.

[craggy belfry]

^^^^^^

also

if Araki kept it in the story that the Kingdom of Naples was going after the corpse too, then he may have been more justified

as some other country may have harnessed it first

and even further more

if he was just going to hide the corpse in that safe under New York, then he still would've been justified because he only would've been hiding it and not abusing its power

in short Valentine did do wrong but it could've been set aside for the good he was going to do as long as it was good and we need to get back to jojolion before they delete our messages

araki gonna make it so that Funny's child traveled abroad for school

[granite sedge]

Honestly, this is why SBR is such a fantastic story. The hero and villain both have a certain moral ambiguity that Jojo doesn't normally do.

But yeah, that definitely makes sense I think.

And then a few generations later, Kaato happened.

[craggy belfry]

go to vento aureo chat

[granite sedge]

I like the idea of one villain being descended from another. It's a fun villainous twist on the Jojo formula.

[minor ore]

I really can't wait for gappy's stand to do something

so far, he's only been facilitating his allies' stands' powers