📚lore-discussion

[blazing wasp]

in fact he fucking hates guardians, since his mother died and became a guardian and treated him poorly as a guardian

since she obviously didnt recognise him, and guardians are different from their "alive" counterparts.

[velvet hawk]

So... bael is also a pissy baby

[blazing wasp]

he also views the vanguard as corrupt dictators which in his defence is half right.

[velvet hawk]

Who got corrupted by 6?

[blazing wasp]

and some manipualtion from VI helped

[blazing wasp]

essentially

he's a "piss baby" but not because he's weak willed

circumstances made him like that

doesnt excuse him, it just explains him.

[velvet hawk]

Okie that explains 6 making the Empire and Bael but what was 6 plan?

[blazing wasp]

this loops a bit back to the edge of fate and pre-edge of fate

the nine's ultiamte goal

the reason literally any of the members of the nine do anything at all other than as a means of survival

be able to live without needing to rely on the presence of life within the solar system.

[velvet hawk]

Yea gain thier own physical body of sorts

[blazing wasp]

no

its simpler than that.

[velvet hawk]

Even simpler?

[blazing wasp]

they literally just want to not rely on life within the solar system to survive

thats it

if they can get a physical body i guess thats a bonus

but its worth noting the nine dont think "human"

they're utterly and completely alien.

[velvet hawk]

The 9 are literally 4th dimension consciousness manifest due to life and the gravity of planets no?

Hence the main planets of the system have 9 and not others like titan

[velvet hawk]

What was 6 plan then wifh bael ?

What planet is it again?

Saturn

[blazing wasp]

correct

[blazing wasp]

same as the other 9

to not be reliant on life within sol to exist.

[velvet hawk]

Yea i think that's the peak of my confusion

What was it planning to do ?

Rip out the 4th dimension by blowing up earth with tjat end killer base or whatever M

[blazing wasp]

I'm unsure how to properly explain it because it will require a prior knowledge of how the nine work, and how sword logic works.

[velvet hawk]

I know those work

[blazing wasp]

Then "was gonna make a throne world" should sufficiently explain it

Darkness stuff would also reasonably allow VI to find a way to seperate itself.

[velvet hawk]

Bruh... 6 was using bael to destroy the earth to make its out throne world to then have its own physical space where it can manifest its conscious?

Kinda smart....

In my dumbass brain idk why we can't just have tbe 9 possess someone then do the exo brain scan and transfer that into a body....

[blazing wasp]

well... we dont know how?

not in a way that would, yknow, not kill them

since exofication explicitly kills you.

[velvet hawk]

Hmmm yea

Killing the main consciousness would end the planet righf ?

[blazing wasp]

no it would just kill the host

[velvet hawk]

The extinction event 3 talked about

[blazing wasp]

transferring would also just transfer the host.

[velvet hawk]

Oh....

Feck

[blazing wasp]

it would fuck it over

but we are yet to see fully how it does

[velvet hawk]

Clone a psion real quick?

Stupid fucking 4th dimension beings having a hissy fits cause they can't have consciousness without the life and gravity of us.... get a life

Bind them how ?

[blazing wasp]

you misinterpret possession as them just transferring their actual consciousness rather than a possession

[blazing wasp]

only one is having that

and the other planets really dislike it

[velvet hawk]

Like fucking tailed beast from naruto... bind to something like a pot?

[blazing wasp]

i imagine its a lot less simpler than that

[velvet hawk]

Take consciousness... space magic logic... bind to a physical form of some kind

Boom

[blazing wasp]

with how more expansive and explained upon the worldbuilding is of Destiny's "magic", doing it like Naruto would cause some uproar.

[velvet hawk]

We know the start and end just not the how

[blazing wasp]

a dramatic oversimplifcation of what the nine is

but, we dont quite know how we do it, yes.

[velvet hawk]

But that is the plan rn right ?

[blazing wasp]

the plan is to bind them

how isnt known

[velvet hawk]

Bind them so they dont all start having hissy fits like 6

[blazing wasp]

6 is the only one dragging it out this far and one half of the nine genuinely like us

and are actually invested in our survival

[velvet hawk]

The other half want what 6 wanted they just javent acted yet

Pretty much

Gives us a formula for fbe next few dlc huh

[blazing wasp]

no

they all want the same thing, yes

they have all been acting, on multiple occasions

but none took as extreme measures as 6 did

and its unlikely anyone will

since theyre all pretty goddamn pissed at 6

[velvet hawk]

Do we have a list of these occasions and examples M

[blazing wasp]

since its not out of the question it'll backfire and fuck over everyone, or everyone but 6.

[blazing wasp]

making a black hole

[velvet hawk]

.....

Who the fuck did that?

And when ?

.... wait I think i remember ?

[blazing wasp]

pretty sure just about half of them tried

none succeeded

if they had succeeded then well, their goals would've been done, maybe.

[velvet hawk]

Maybe

Or they would have just ripped apart the gravity keeping them conscious

Is there other 9 influenced events that could be a piece in someone's plans?

[blazing wasp]

i believe you need to read up on some nine lore, should be a tab in the.. whats the site

the one where they keep all the lore

fuck

if only Mael was here

[velvet hawk]

Isnt there something like the nine being involved with forsaken ?

[blazing wasp]

ishtar

[velvet hawk]

Or another dlc i can't remember

[blazing wasp]

killed sjur eido

[blazing wasp]

read up on 9 lore in ishtar collective

as you appear to have several minor misconceptions of how the 9 work

none major, just a handful of small ones im way too dumb to explain.

[velvet hawk]

Didn't eido die tho how did the 9 kill her ?

Gonna gind out

[blazing wasp]

sjur is eido

sjur eido is her full name

[blazing wasp]

likely the brain boiler

[velvet hawk]

She died to ahamkara tho didn't she ?

[blazing wasp]

its unknown but we know the nine were relevant

so im gonna assume their trademark brain boiler got her.

[velvet hawk]

Brain boiler?

If 1 or a few members of the 9 engineered eidos death while she was tracking the 2 things... why tho

[blazing wasp]

They can boil brains

[velvet hawk]

This a legit thing in destiny

Explain pls

[blazing wasp]

They can just... choose to just boil someones brain, as far as i know

[haughty stump]

how did III die the first time?

Ik Maya does that conductor shit to III, but then i remember Orin saying she remembered that III was dead

before that happened

i kinda don't know which part of this is III, is the black hole? that region around it? the whole smoke?

[trim grotto]

Hallu

[blazing wasp]

hi

[frigid sparrow]

the cutscene was a flashback

maya says during the campaign that she did what she came to kepler to do

[dim minnow]

The whole thing there is III

[frigid sparrow]

the anomaly is the result of bringing a 4th dimensional being into our realm

[dim minnow]

Yeah, for context, III died like a month before we went to Kepler

[haughty stump]

hmm interseting

[haughty stump]

yo i hate her so much

[frigid sparrow]

she's goated

[haughty stump]

can't wait to put her in my guyn

gun

[trim grotto]

It happens less often than people make out

[slow berry]

Just ToM and Parasite i think

Oh and I think 1kv

Whisper has a guy in it but we didnt put it there

[jagged badge]

For sure, people make out a lot

[haughty stump]

Oh yea but it’s funny

[slim girder]

Think of it like this.
You are a 3 dimensional being. Now imagine I smooshed you onto a painting until you were completely flat and 2 dimensional instead. You wouldn't live.
This is how Maya killed III. Using her echo of command she forced III into the 3rd dimension which they can't exist in so it caused III to implode.
Another good example of this is when you take fish who have adapted to living in the deepest parts of the ocean and bring them up to the surface they will quite literally explode

[haughty stump]

Oh yea ik how she did it, I was just confused cause if III died twice what killed them the first time but apparently the cutscene was flashback, and when drifter resserecuted them it was temporary until 3 died again

[slim girder]

Correct. The haul is described as an "engine of change" and now we finally know the reason why drifter had been feeding it the whole time

Us being able to witness III dying twice was how we got the message about binding the nine

[lofty badge]

think we will need the haul in the future since the Nine gave it back and the Drifter keeps running Gambit?

[slim girder]

It's possible. Due to how long we didn't know what the haul was even for it could definitely be a long time before we get that answer

It's had many different uses over the years with the most significant use being to resurrect III. Second to that would be the prophecy dungeon where we asked the nine about the nature of light and dark

[queen swallow]

My thinking is that we’re going to make/find something that will shove III back into the 4th dimension and we’ll need the Haul to revive them again to do that

[lofty badge]

could be

also i hope we perma kill the version of Maya that is the conducter at somepoint

also i wonder if when ever we face her again that she will be using enslaved members of other races and factions over vex in her forces given she has been loosing control of more of her vex

since she already did that by using time travel to get a lot of red legion

[frigid sparrow]

Considering she's losing power over her echo, it's unlikely. The only way she'd be able to is probably through newly formed vex who would only recently gain autonomy, or more simulated enemies like the red legion who aren't very mindful entities

[ember storm]

She should just get good at lying

“Hey yeah I’m just a weirdly shaped Psion you guys hate guardians right? I have some you can shoot”

[frigid sparrow]

"sooo... Heard you guys were interested about some inverted spire.."

[haughty stump]

peak stuff

yk i wonder if Dredgen Bael is gonna commune with the winnower

that would be amazing

or whatever 6 helps him with

[lofty badge]

i doubt it since he has six

[slim girder]

Dredgen Bael as cool as he is as a villain is nothing but a puny human playing with things he doesn't understand to the winnower.

I don't believe the winnower will do anything with Bael

[dim minnow]

Aleks Le did a good job playing him

glad I got to meet him at LVLUP Expo about a week ago

[slim girder]

Oh yeah 100% Bael as a villain is so good.

[dim minnow]

can't wait to see what they got planned for him

[slim girder]

So did you ask Aleks?

[dim minnow]

ask him what?

[slim girder]

If there was anything big in store for Bael
I had a friend who met drifters VA pre EoF ask him the question to which they responded "Big things in store for drifter"

[dim minnow]

he did say that there were some very intereting things planned with his character

he also noted how he worked closely with the writing team

[slim girder]

Very nice to hear.

[dim minnow]

yeah, he really does like working with them

[slim girder]

Can't wait to see his next appearance and see what he has to say in shadow and order.

[dim minnow]

Lume is just going to continue on his downward spiral of depression because Bael doesn't give a shit about the Imperium

[slim girder]

Yeah I feel once we blew up nightfall station it was just over for Lume now

Now we just wait to see where that spiral goes

[dim minnow]

you can really hear the defeat in his voice when Bael told him to turn some their dwindling territory into ritual sites

[slim girder]

Mhm. He's over it now. Sure he did say we'd meet again but honestly our next meeting is probably going to be the last unless he pulls a calus and we don't see the guy in the flesh for almost a decade

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/aleks-le-jujutsu-kaisen-cockroach-gif-7420432699403722273

Lume: "Bael for the love of Torobatl, the Imperium is imploding, please do something!"

Bael:

[slim girder]

Wild gif

[dim minnow]

this is Aleks Le btw

it was from a recent video he took where he voiced over some Lobotomy Kaisen memes with some other JJK VAs

[slim girder]

Oh yeah I know it's him lol.

He's a funny guy

[dim minnow]

fr

[frigid sparrow]

"dad, please.. I'm cooked.."

[lofty badge]

i hope we get to explore outside the Sol system sometime or not...

[whole parrot]

Did we ever explore Saturn in the lore, or was it just the Dreadnaught?

[jagged badge]

Explore what? It’s a gas giant

[slow berry]

realistically not this decade

[slow berry]

We explore one of its moons

[haughty stump]

Well considering in that lore book entry 3 he talked about how the darkness is good not the light, I’d imagine he would want to dive deeper into the darkness in hopes of destroying the light

Maybe 6 will lead him to the winnower

[haughty stump]

Need a whole expansion dedicated to being in the last city, like the entire last city

[lofty badge]

I would like that

[haughty stump]

During the zero hour mission you get a grasp of how massive it kind of is, and we should def like idk uncover a criminal underground or evil guardians

[lofty badge]

Yee or a Cell of Bael supporters

[slow berry]

We did have a raid take place in the Last City already fwiw

[lofty badge]

yes but what about exotic mission

or patrol zone

[haughty stump]

pfft that's abandoned i'm talking going through the city, on our sparrow and catching thugs, like cyberpunk

[haughty stump]

yea that makes sense, Bael would def not let it slide, also blow a hole in the wall.

[haughty stump]

doesn't have to, he will be manipulated by 6, and find himself with power beyond his control. Regardless I want to see with this direction going forward how guardians aren't always good, abuse of power, etc. I want complexity ig you could say, and Bael is def a villian but i do want him to be bigger than what he is.

[haughty stump]

i was gonna say neptune then remembered its cause of quicksilver

[jagged badge]

I don’t believe Neptune is a gas giant, though tbf there was also some terraforming involved in making it liveable with a surface

Apparently I’m wrong on that first bit

[whole parrot]

I was thinking something along the lines of Division 2's WONY or rogue agents, but it's rogue guardians.

[slow berry]

we have more important things than to stop petty theft

there's danger brewing inside the last city, but it's not the type of danger that you can solve with a big gun and some magic tricks

[haughty stump]

idk whats that, maybe a civil war with the vanguard too who knows

[haughty stump]

obv not theft think big bro, intracity conflicts can be huge

[haughty stump]

hmm

[haughty stump]

yea all the outer orbits arre gas giants

but apprantely neptune is the densiest

uranus and neptune both differ from others with icey rock cores and potentiallly oceans

[whole parrot]

You actually somewhat described it.

[slow berry]

what exactly requires guardian gameplay in city conflicts

its either an invasion or not really anything at all

[slim girder]

People want gameplay in the city so bad but it really is just going to be us going shopping or something.
Like what you want us to gun anti guardian civilians down in a civil war with rockets and nova bombs?

Last safe city on earth and people want it to be a warzone.

[haughty stump]

Bael's spies, inter guardian conflicts, tower/wall infiltration, massive underground drug market, massive underground arms market, an assault on the last city would obv work like you said, undercover investigation.

[slim girder]

Inter guardian conflicts are literally one of the reasons the crucible was made.
Drugs as far as we know are not a thing in the last city save for the medicinal kind that actually helps people.
No one is infiltrating the wall because it is the LAST city.
Black market arms are a thing yes but the main empire of that is on tharsis not earth.
This isn't GTA with crime and conflict on every corner

The only thing capable of assaulting the last city are entities outside of the city and aside from the red legion we've stopped every attempt.
Even into the light had us defend the city and set up defence systems

[haughty stump]

These are all hypothetical and we can def make them up on the fly, I’m just shooting ideas, I’m not a professional at this

[slow berry]

-Bael doesn't actually have spies he's just one guy allied with a splinter Cabal cell and not even that at this point
-We had that with Ash and Iron and lasted like 30 seconds because it's the most defended bastion in the solar system
-what market and even then what would we do, we just shoot and kill things

[slow berry]

We did have a slice of Last City in Revenant and Heresy, it was simply a non-combat seasonal hub

Which is a much more intelligent way to go about it, because you can't really justify neither having random ass invasions on the city (Out of the ones that have happened, all but one were very important events in the history of the city and the most recent was a way to show Maya growing aggressive and reckless out of impatience) and any other possible reason to have a Guardian have a loaded, drawn gun inside the City doesn't scale up to actual gameplay viability

Like, what, we shoot one guy and then what?

[slim girder]

There's a reason we leave Shaxx and Saint 14 behind on most occasions

Shaxx especially takes his watch over the city seriously

[ember storm]

they're very busy after all

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2gay-kiss-gif-27172921

[dim minnow]

there's people in the city working with him. He had several false identities in order to get resources from Tex Mechanica as well, which he is the heir of

also there are people like that one guy who was selling weapons to Lightless civs (from that one SMG lore tab)

[haughty stump]

Interesting

[haughty stump]

Okay you make some good points and has led me to reevaluating partially, honestly I felt that we should be allowed to explore the last city that we spent the better part of the decade protecting, but that alone isn’t enough,

So you say we would just shoot and kill things, which now that I think about is kinda why we should have more recon based, and spying missions to make it feel different, parts of the tower are still under maintenance we should work with killing enemies and trading within the last city to get materials for that, I’d wager doing something like that would be very important, and the vanguard need to prove they are for the people cause rn everybody mad, I get the, oh having a full might of a guardian for one guy be a problem, but what if it’s like a really bad guy, like Taniks came back again and had his clones do an internal invasion of blowing shit up, because he snuck them in , and then we and ikora explore the underground tunnels, and blah blah blah, we got potential over here, plus maybe we could have sparrow racing on the outskirts of the last city.

Maybe less of a full expansion and closer to warmind sized

[haughty stump]

Oh yea we could have missions with shaxx for once

[haughty stump]

Acting like we got control over them 😭✌️ they do what they want and no one stopping them, except ikora

[haughty stump]

Okay back to this, this would def be a great thing however either the traveler leaves, or we find out where the winnower is

[slim girder]

That's exacty what into the light was. Us assisting shaxx in the defence of the city and making sure everyone was safe before going to face the wiitness

[haughty stump]

Two possible ideas to justify going outside

[lofty badge]

We have more

[haughty stump]

Yea but I heard that was shitty, I’m talking not shitty, like being up and down the wall, finding some golden age tech to help install, not some tripwires lol, also maybe going to the club and having some dance competitions who knows🥹, nah but if it comes don’t make it seasonal, make it something permanent, at least let us sparrow race across the entire tower around the last city.

[haughty stump]

Like what?

Pluto?

[lofty badge]

One is helping the cabal retake their home world

From the hive

[slim girder]

Into the light was great

[haughty stump]

Oh yea forgot about that, or Riis, or Fundament, but most likely even for our speed that would be a hikeeee

[haughty stump]

Yea but I never got to experience it so they should make something permanent

Or bring it back permanently I mean

[slim girder]

You can play onslaught rn in the portal

In midtown or the revenant version in widows court iirc

[haughty stump]

Hmm

But that’s just shooting no story aspect?

[slim girder]

There wasn't any story to into the light. We were given the activity, told what we're doing this for and that was it

[queen swallow]

There was partially a story: defend the city

[slow berry]

tldr the children yearn for scourge of the past

[frigid sparrow]

INSURRECTION PRIME's name being as such is an insane aura farm move

[haughty stump]

Ok yea I want something with more story and mission based

[slow berry]

i just dont see a world where this isnt better off as a lore tab than as actual gameplay

you have like five buttons and four of them are just "kill"

the other is, half of the time, "spawn more things to kill"

[lofty badge]

Wdym?

[haughty stump]

He means for what you and I want, it’s not worth the effort as a whole, basically we should just be killing things

Idk I get saving the universe, but nothing wrong with perhaps a different side of guardian

Maybe one day we got lost on earth and we have no communication or knowledge, and then have to live in a local village and help while we try to get back but the whole place is overrun with fallen, and hive.

[slim girder]

While I'm all for theorising that sadly just isn't a thing anymore. It's called the LAST city on earth for a reason.
Maybe in the dark ages there were absolutely outskirts and establishments outside the city while it was still in its early stages but once it had fully been established it truly became the last place for humanity.

Guardians can't really get lost because our ghosts are able to reach people from as far out as Kepler

That's bordering on the edge of the solar system

[queen swallow]

The Farm exists/existed. Probably not much more than singular shelters or maybe a few camps elsewhere. Nothing that could be definitively called a "city".

[haughty stump]

Well yea not like good stable zones, maybe like a very small amount of people who unfortunately are around the world, it’s kind of annoying we can kill gods around the solar system, and save the universe but we can’t fucking take back earth

[haughty stump]

Well maybe our ghost gets half broken and can’t communciate, or maybe some huge solar system weapon wiped out all communications, ( foreshadowing for a new enemy)

[slim girder]

We have though. Threats always pop up sure but nowhere have enemies actually been able to establish strongholds

[haughty stump]

Yea def a desperate dying out dwindles of people.

[haughty stump]

What?

Yo what’s stopping us from expanding😭

if no enemies have any stronghold place then we can easily expand and wipe them out

[slim girder]

We have all we need in the city. We're safe and our planet is safe

Any enemy strongholds are all off world like the hellmouth/scarlet keep on the moon being the closest one

[dim minnow]

we can clear sectors, but we cannot hold them

it wasn't until at least a year ago that we finally killed the Witness

and there are still many threats lurking

[trim grotto]

(These complaints come from the same people who ask why we haven't reconquered the whole solar system with our vast strength, forgetting how many Guardians are either in abeyance after exhaustion, still working on mastering their first subclass, or already committed to the protection of populations and resources here on Earth.) - The Hidden Dossier

Significant Human population is limited to a single City and Guardians are typically used as Strike forces, rather than long term protectors of static resources.

[haughty stump]

You got a card for everything

And I see now

Most guardians aren’t goated

Like young wolf

[queen swallow]

Correct

[trim grotto]

I am the lord of sauce

[haughty stump]

love to see it,

[slim elk]

I think a large part of the disconnect between Humanity's status and what we see in the game itself is just the lack of focus on what Guardians are actually protecting

It's gotten better in recent years but even now we still have the old faction segments in the tower despite them being disbanded for years.

Would think they could be repurposed for our new allies to have official segments instead of just the occasional random NPC

[lofty badge]

yeah

did't help the vanguard have remained in control of the city for a while

[ember storm]

I could be the speaker

I read alpha lupi I got it in the bag

[lofty badge]

we make a new goverment

lead by

Colonel

[ember storm]

Sorry to say but uh

Chickens live about a max of 10 years

And D2 released in 2017

[slim girder]

So his final year can be spent leading the city

I think he deserves it

[ember storm]

I don’t really wanna “um actually” you but

It’s a chicken

That’s kinda like the whole thing

She ain’t a rooster

[slim girder]

Shhhh

It'll be fine if we did think about it too much

[dapper kayak]

then we can make the chicken a lightbearer

[lofty badge]

we give the chicken life extending medicine

get rekt

[ember storm]

colonel becomes the first non humanity/hive guardian

[slim elk]

not the only immortal bird around

That Hawk Hawthorne has still be not showing any sign of aging

[trim grotto]

The beast is blessed by the Great Orb

[dense pike]

sunny9175 has been banned!

[dim minnow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1392858665505001635/1498376045563347076/beasy.gif

[teal glacier]

Is all the lore for weapons or armor basically telling how it was created?

[queen swallow]

Some times yes, more often than not no

[trim grotto]

That's actually on the rarer side, typically.

The lore is a lot more varied than that.

[teal glacier]

Like for the khovostov, is it like telling the lore from the guns pov or the ghost that resurrects us?

[queen swallow]

It's a story from at least a ghost's perspective, because it mentions a bullet hitting their shell. I don't know if it's meant to be our ghost though.

[frigid sparrow]

if you would please consult the very arbitrary graph that I already had to make adjustments for

[queen swallow]

what

[trim grotto]

It's definitely the perspective of our Ghost. Khvostov was our very first rifle, it's an important part of our story.

[queen swallow]

Most weapons don't have any kind of sentience

[ember storm]

im a weapon

got two big guns right here,, call em lefty and righty

[trim grotto]

Ace was a custom job but could pretty reasonably be replicated... If Banshee remembers how he did it.

There are already a few Handcannons of very similar model, though I'd need to check if they're pre or post Ace in production.

[ember storm]

i wont let him do that, legally

[trim grotto]

I'd argue Ticuu's could be reproduced by an adequately skilled Psion and Wishender is already a smaller replica of Sjur Eido's bow so that shouldn't be too bad either

Strictly speaking nobody in this universe manufactured the MIDA weapons at all

I'd only note them because they have a unique program within them

[frigid sparrow]

the adequately skilled psion also killed itself to create it

also with respects to the mini tool and macro tool I think we've gained greater understanding of the marathon universe tech

[trim grotto]

Haha yeah fair

[lofty badge]

do we know if the ghosts of Dark age Lightbearer warlords were okay with their chosen being tyrants?

ghost when their picked guardian starts enslaving people:

[trim grotto]

Well, we didn't always get perspectives from the Ghosts, so strictly speaking, no, we don't.

That said, I'd be willing to bet my second serving of bacon mushroom fettuccine I just made that many Ghosts were very much not okay with it, but stayed out of a deep sense of purpose and duty and loyalty.

We have seen Ghosts abandon their Chosen before, and there was at least one case that comes to mind of a Warlord's Ghost abandoning him

Buuuut that is also a funny little lore tab because it uniquely suggests the Ghost was going to find a new Chosen, an otherwise unheard of concept

[ember storm]

have you considered I hink all hive ghosts are mean and that i get a sense of fulfillment from killing them

[jagged badge]

[lofty badge]

i think any remaining hive ghosts who did't defect like Fynch are yeah just straight up evil now, expcet Luzaku's ghost

[ember storm]

that's basically always been the case

Luzaku barely even outright defected, Savathun knows she's just bumming around the pale heart and doesn't care

literally no other hive ghost has even tried defecting, in fact most of them are just outright mean

we have a lore tab of a hive lightbearer having a momentary lapse in judgment holding a guardian's ghost while their own screams at them to kill it

[lofty badge]

that was in fact Luzaku

[ember storm]

oh right i forgot she just like

[lofty badge]

back when she was a acolyte hunter Lightbearer

[ember storm]

changed class

thats illegal by the way we should fine her

[lofty badge]

yee

XD

[lofty badge]

whyyyy

[ember storm]

she didnt update her tax forms

[lofty badge]

i wonder tho if most of the hive ghosts ..were they planned to have hive Lightbearers as partners or where they mass manipluated by Savathun and just went "i like this gig" with their hive buddies?

i mean Savathun and Immaru

[ember storm]

i mean they were all just apparently willingly entering a throne world of their own volition

granted they were held at gunpoint once inside but like

you gotta have some idea what you're heading there for

[slow berry]

Luzaku has been meeting with Mara

Which she would probably care about

[wary kite]

So like, what exactly are all those taken-ish tentacles and tendrils all over the dreadnaught and I guess the "sarlacc" pit as well?

Anyone have any ideas? I'm at a big loss

[slim girder]

The tentacles are from a new taken entity called the Lord of every nothing, A being that was willed into existence by the takens need for a leader. The sarlacc pit though i wouldn't pay to much mnd to as it's just for the star wars ref and most likely has no lore siginigance

The lord of every nothing first appeared in heresy, The tentacles, the eyes that give you suffocating terror. That is all from them. and rn they are growing in the ascendant plane.

[ember storm]

cthulu is very chill

[wary kite]

THAT could be something hella cool

can't wait for bungie to fumble it somehow 😭

[slim girder]

Will probably be a while before we actually see them but rn it looks like bungie is just trying to introduce lots of new mysteries since heresy for this new saga we're in

Give us things to speculate about and things to be excited for. I'm personally really hoping the lord of every nothing is some Cthulhu type being in scale

Lovecraft stuff in destiny would be amazing

[ember storm]

inb4 its a campaign boss that just ends up being another chimera

[wary kite]

Lord of every reskins

[vapid oar]

So im playing through all the campaigns for the first time (quit after forsaken) and i just finished lightfall.. now i started the final shape and i feel like im missing soooo much context. example Uldren Sov is freaking alive again and went into the traveler??? did i skip over some content or missions, did i jump the gun by going to final shape? or is this just more classic bungie cut content bs

[slim girder]

Uldren died in forsaken yes. After some time he was brought back by a ghost with no memory of who he was, later found by spider who gave him the name crow and now crow after a lot of character development is the new hunter vanguard and trying to right uldrens wrongs

[broken quartz]

Is the traveler abandoned lore wise? I didnt play the 3 episodes so I don't know if something was set up for the future, but the story seems like its going to be fully focused on the Nine from now on?

I just hope the Traveler doesn't just become completely irrelevant in the future. There's still so much mystery around it

[slim girder]

As of now the traveler has been left to rest and hopefully heal due to us purging all the witnesses corruption that it left in the pale heart.
The nine and this new prophecy is the main focus though it looks like but still plenty that could definitely involve the traveler such as in renegades the imperiums intention of firing nightfall station at it.

[broken quartz]

I just finished The Edge of Fate and I was assuming Renegades wouldn't have anything to do with the Traveler so thats my bad.

It's probably is going to take a long time to heal (maybe even longer than last time). I just hope we get to see more of it now that the Witness is dead

I understand the Nine are important but I feel like we didnt completely close the chapter on the light and darkness

[slim girder]

The traveler will always be a target for our enemies. So even if it takes a back seat it will always pop up every now again.
The nine for example were all curious about it and as far as we know still do factor it in whatever they choose to do.

As of now though the main threat to the traveler is dead and now it can finally rest and heal from god knows how long it's spent running from the witness

[broken quartz]

Did we find out what the lucent hive were doing in the pale heart? I can't remember

[slim girder]

Savathun is looking for "truths" presumably I think this is her attempting to get access to prismatic power somehow but so far we've stopped her.
And most recently in heresy we seriously pissed her off by destroying the echo of her brother so now she has told us she isn't playing games anymore and fully intends to destroy us

[broken quartz]

oh ok, cool. thanks!

[sonic grove]

So. I just came up with a wild theory. So, you know how after the Witness was killed, the narrative started to get worse? What if that was because the Witness actually did win? We lost, and the past updates have just been a dream because our guardian can't fully die. Think about it. In Excision, they get within a second of enacting the final shape before they die. What if they did manage to finish and we're just dreaming?

[slim girder]

Excision wasn't them enacting the final shape. It was just protecting itself from us after wounding it even more

We already cut it off from the traveler. Final shape had been stopped and excision was where we cornered it and finished it off

[lofty badge]

[wary kite]

LOREMASTERS! A question please

Wtf powers the Ahamkara's powers?
Is it some kind of light/dark paracausality?
Abuse of crazy scifi sciences?
"Plot-device don't worry about it"?

[gilded wing]

Kind of plot device don't worry about it, kind of not.

They are paracausal, and feed on energy between the reality that is (our's, at that moment) and what is desired. They specifically derive power by twisting reality into messed up ways ala Monkey's Paw, and then consume the ensuing chaos to fuel themselves.

Their wishes kind of are their power. It's an ouroboros of feeding.

Basically, they do what they do because they can, and doing that means they have the source/fuel/power needed to... do what they do.

Rewriting reality has consequences, just not typically for something that is paracausal, due to the nature of being detached from the rules of reality. They consume those consequences to rewrite reality which they then consume the consequences of to rewrite reality so they can consume the consequences to... rewrite reality... you get the idea, I hope.

[wary kite]

mfs basically have Narrative altering powers being a layer above the game's characters SCP typa shit

hmmm that also answers another headscratcher I had, so there are more sources of paracausal power other than just Light and Dark

[gilded wing]

Think of Ahamkara as carpenters, and our world as a felled tree ready to be cut into.

They can make anything with it.

Off the top of my head, the things that are classed as Paracausal include, but are not strictly limited to: The Guardian, Light, Darkness, Ahamkara, Worm Gods, Ascendant Hive, Taken and any entity that has abided by Sword Logic (or made a pact with a Worm God) and reached a point of power where they can have their own Ascendant Throne World (as well as anything made to exist in that Throne World).

Oh, and Awoken.

It is possible I am missing at least one or a few.

[gilded wing]

It is also important to note that, if something is Paracausal (i.e. Taken), it is generally safe to presume its origin is Paracausal in some way (Oryx), but this is not always the case.

For example, Light and Dark are paracausal, which in turn makes Guardians and the Awoken paracausal.
However, while Ascendant Hive, Ascendant Throne Worlds and the Worm Gods are all paracausal, not all Hive are by nature. It is a status of being that is earned in that case.

If something can defy fate, rewrite reality, or create things that are paracausal (or kill things that are paracausal), it's most likely paracausal.

Though, while it is hypothetically possible to kill something that is paracausal without being paracausal, there is an argument to be made there regarding earned paracausality if you manage to kill something that is paracausal. If you manage to kill something that is paracausal, that's a pretty big deal, as you just killed something that can defy reality and do what it wants, and that in and of itself might just be a paracausal event.

Note^2: that's not stated to be one way or the other in plain text in lore (as in, you won't find a plain lore book stating "if you kill something paracausal, you are paracausal"), it's just a hypothetical penned out based on how we've been presented paracausality, how we understand it and just what it is and what it means applied to a context that very well could happen, as nothing states that paracausal = unkillable (as has been demonstrated many times). And even if that were true, breaking that rule would by itself make you paracausal.

[ember storm]

Paracausal just means that it's above normal causality

hive worms are paracausal but you can just step on them and make them splat

paracausal is not a special kind of class or state of being its just a blanket term

all hive are inherently paracausal because of their worms tying them to the worm gods

Savathun was theoretically the only non-paracausal hive right before she died, but then got rezzed by Immaru

[gilded wing]

Oh, yes, right, because all Hive ingest one of the worms. I do sometimes forget that, because it's not only silly to sign away all that you are just to become less than you were, but also because the worms are insaitable and will just kill you if you slow or stop at all.

Though, paracausal is kind of a state of being, albeit not assigned or defined, because the Vex deal with the casaul, and cannot properly or accurately predict or fully simulate entites like guardians, due to their paracausal nature, which places them outside of the standard laws of cause and effect.

It's just a pseudo-state that covers anything outside the standard laws of reality and laws of cause and effect (specifically this one, more than anything else generally).

The Vex existing as causal entities constrained by simulations and cause and effect is one of the biggest reasons that paracausality is more than just a term we, as people who play the game (or read the lore), use to describe things. It actually impacts causal entites (although most might not even realize it or know it in-universe), but the Vex at least have an idea, because they know they can't really grapple with paracausality due to their causality and their methodologies.

Being paracausal means you are innately not bound by the standard laws of reality, especially cause and effect, and can do things otherwise "not possible".

It's why Vex can't predict paracausal entites, as they simply cannot understand it and thus cannot simulate or predict it.

[ember storm]

yes but theres a distinction between someone whos actually paracausal and just using paracausal tools

and also being a paracausal individual doesnt give you the same strengths/weaknesses as someone else

like hive worms being paracausal doesnt mean they're as resilient as a ghost

ghosts can also just be shot by conventional weapons very easily

[gilded wing]

That's very true. Not all are equal.

Oryx is not the same as a Ghost, and a Ghost is not the same as their Guardian.

[ember storm]

this is all very funny when you remember Ana once claimed that hive magic is just "Science we don't understand yet"

like no that is still just actual magic they perform blood sacrifices and put souls into crystals

[gilded wing]

It is kind of funny, but also kinda interesting. It means paracausality isn't even understood by those who engage with it, or who are it.

Which is cool. Being something doesn't mean knowing everything about it.

[gilded wing]

Though, I am curious, how was Savathun theoretically not paracausal? Is it because of her use of "Oh Guardian Mine", like the Ahamakara tagline?

[dim minnow]

as Ikora puts it, our power is unlimited and we could barely understand it

[ember storm]

after the end of season of the lost, Savathun lost her worm

[dim minnow]

which is why we have the class/subclass system

[ember storm]

in that split second she was completely mortal and disconnected from her throne world

so she just bled out and died

[dim minnow]

to make it understandable for us to use

[ember storm]

this is what gave Immaru (her ghost) the oppotunity to rez her for the first time and make her a lightbearer

[gilded wing]

Yeah, brings me back to the carpenter thing I said regarding Ahamkara (but it applies to all paracausal entities). A paracausal entity is just a carpenter and everything it is wood.

[ember storm]

theoretically she still shouldn't be connected to her throne world now

[gilded wing]

Oh, I missed that, I believe. I might not have been around then.

[ember storm]

but she physically rebuilt it through the light so its just a physical location now

[gilded wing]

Due to the lack of her worm?

[ember storm]

still in the ascendant plane and only accessible through a portal, but yknow

[ember storm]

the worm is inside the gun Parasite now

also voiced by Dee Bradley Baker

she doesn't have actual access to her ascendant hive powers anymore, just knowledge of basic spells even Eris could do

[gilded wing]

But doesn't Eris still have her ATW without her worm, being she's resurrected and no longer a psueod-hive-goddess?

[ember storm]

Eris' worm is technically Ahsa

Savathun was never linked to any of the worm gods, just used her own as a conduit. once it was gone she was cut off

Eris never had a worm to begin with and basically just linked directly with Ahsa as her psuedo worm god

for all intents and purposes Eris is technically hive

Mara also has a throne world but that was kinda bootleg

[gilded wing]

Oh, right, she consumed tithes instead of a worm, but due to the ritual was able to use Ahsa's powers to become the Hive Goddess of Vengeance. That checks out.

It makes sense how Savathun is theoretically the only non-paracausal hive, then.

[ember storm]

well, was

now she has lightbearer brand

[gilded wing]

Was.

Regarding Hive, unburying a corpse a here, because I can't recall if anything has stated this in absolute fact in the last few years (during my absence): Has any lore canonized in plain, undeniable text that the Hive were, in fact, "Krill" before being Hive? Not just potential metaphors or insinuations, but clear statement.

If I recall correctly, it's never capitalized in lore books, unlike species names which always are, and while it's hardly that important, it's a decent time to ask given the related subject matter at hand.

With my missing of seasons, I didn't get to see all the dialog and the works.

[ember storm]

its definitively confirmed in lots of sources including the books of sorrow

[queen swallow]

Several: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/search/krill

[ember storm]

common phrasing is "those 10-year krill"

[gilded wing]

But it isn't capitalized, and it sounds more an analogy in sorrow, which would line up with their inherently doomed fate. However, every other species is capitalized in the lore books, which seems a deliberate decision.

[ember storm]

It was as planned. The Krill became the Hive. The enemy amongst the moons of Fundament disappeared.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/resonant-fury-mark?highlight=krill

[gilded wing]

That's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks.

It was the lack of capitalization that always made me unsure if it was the definitive species, but that mark (which I've never seen, as I haven't played Titan past BL) is just what I always wanted out of the Krill designation.

Does make me wonder why the writers specifically excluded Krill from the species capitalization trend they abided by for so long.

[jagged badge]

I’m fairly certain I’ve heard people talk about how it was retconned into being a definitive species name when it wasn’t always intended as such

[gilded wing]

That'd make a lot of sense, as thumbing through the pages above, it seems the uses of "Krill" (instead of "krill") are all fairly new.

Even Oryx, when they originally mentioned the krill, did so without capitalization, which should be a pretty big deal.

And by that point, was the only time a Hive even spoke of the krill.

[wary kite]

This game's lore is so peak

[gilded wing]

Yes, yes it is.

I am particularly fond of the Dark Ages, Dredgen, Iron Lords, Siva and anything to do with Germaine (Drifter).

If you find yourself interested in SIVA, learning a bit about the Golden Age and Clovis Bray will also interest you, as the three are very deeply interconnected. Rasputin, too, but you can't learn about any of those 3 without learning about Rasputin.

[wary kite]

Yeah I LOVE the CB stuff, still wish the Echo of Command had fallen into Clovis' had instead of maya

would've made so much more sense and for a much more compelling already existing villain 😭

[gilded wing]

I wish SIVA would've been kept around by somebody. The narrative potential of allowing something so colosally destructive to fall into wicked hands a second time is just so juicy.

Even just for a one time but big return.

[wary kite]

Oh don't worry, we have Quicksilver now

tragic

[gilded wing]

Quicksilver is a dissapointment. I wanted to like it a lot, because it also has incredible narrative potential, but it's so... flat.

It's just SIVA if it was good.

It's not interesting, it lost what made SIVA so unique.

I did at least love its inclusion in the Heliostat mission. Its presence as the tool used to dissolve deactivated SIVA barriers is very cool and I like it a lot.

It feels like the right way to use it to burn past SIVA for the sake of stopping something terrible.

They could've quite easily worked around that or not even had those barriers, but it explicitly is used to get past them, and while it is just a mechanic and a simple one at that, it tickles my fancy.

[wary kite]

It's also just a silvery liquid with no personality to it at all

SOMETIMES they make it into fine nanite particles/dust and thats about it

real sadge

[gilded wing]

I will say I do also quite like it being the core of the Wolfsbane.

Very thematic.

It'd be more incredible if it wasn't so flat.

But yanno, can't always get whatcha want.

[wary kite]

Give us the Young Wolf's sword with nanites like Wolfsbane but this time it is actual Siva in it

[gilded wing]

Whoa now, don't go wishfully thinking, it's dangerous! You might have hope of getting something nice for once.

[slow berry]

Fwiw what made SIVA unique was that it was rushed and deployed without proper safeguards

The whole thing in Rise of Iron is that the Devil splicers are stupid and drunk on power, and they find out the bad way

[gilded wing]

It was also the Collapse and later the commandeering by the Devil Splicers, who figured it out and gave it the Consume. Enhance. Replicate directive.

Between the improper handling of it in the Golden Age to the cracking of it by the Devil Splicers, it showed that while it could be amazing and incredible, it could also devour unendingly and destroy great warriors with ease, and all the while, fail to lose the charm and potential of: but what if we put the right safety measures in place?

Even when it was realized to be an absolutely uncontrollable monster, it still held near limitless potential, and that's begging to invite bad actors and good actors alike.

[slow berry]

You either develop SIVA into something coherent (Quicksilver) or have it be a ravenous uncontrollable infection(Egregor/The Vex)

It just doesn't really have anywhere to go narratively

[gilded wing]

At least IMO

[slow berry]

There's a reason it was only featured in what was effectively a side quest expansion explicitly just made for padding time almost a decade ago

[versed orbit]

Didn’t neomuna have siva but better

[slow berry]

Like if someone wanted to use SIVA why wouldn't they just use Quicksilver

[versed orbit]

Or something

[slow berry]

Which removes all the issues it has

[slow berry]

Quicksilver

[versed orbit]

The gun

[slow berry]

The gun is called Quicksilver Storm

[gilded wing]

It's less narratives for SIVA itself, and more the narratives it can introduce and grow.

For example, it ravaged the Plaguelands, which established it as this monsterous thing that devours and devours and devours. It gave us the end of the Iron Lords, the Devil Splicers, showed us the failures of Rasputin (in containing it adequately), and also gave us the Plagelands, which, after SIVA's destruction, could've been an EXTREMELY powerful storytelling piece regarding the consequences of hubris let run free.
Seeing, engaging with and having to attempt and aid/fix the immense destruction caused to not just living beings but also the enviornment could be a beautiful narrative of the very reason humanity nearly collapsed and why it should have, because without humans, none of that would've happened.

[slow berry]

Because, uh, its made out of quicksilver

[versed orbit]

Yup

[slow berry]

okay but literally all of that did happen

in rise of iron

a decade ago

and it was self contained

Why do we have to tread this story again instead of like, I don't know

Any of the dozens of other relevant stories that don't require concocting an excuse to bring back something we explicitly destroyed and stopped

[gilded wing]

Yes but no.

It had Quicksilver which could take the form of nanites (and many other things). It was basically a more advanced, evolved SIVA (but couldn't really do anything on the scale of SIVA so it really wasn't that in any way other than intention).

It was SIVA without the best parts of it; just a fluid, highly malleable substance used as a tool/plot device when needed.

It was supposed to be "SIVA but good", but that would just be Golden Age SIVA with the right safety measures in place, so it wouldn't be anything new, and that would also solve 90% of the problems we have in Destiny, including military ones, and the other 10% would be solved by us and likely involve it.

[slow berry]

? It can do literally everything SIVA can?

They made Neomuna out of it?

The cloudstriders get their abilities and enhanced physiology from it?

[gilded wing]

Yeah, it can, but it's not actively used to do so on the scale that "good SIVA" truly could because it'd be too much of a problem solver.

[slow berry]

the entire neomuna??

[gilded wing]

Just how much of an impact is quicksilver making on the active story right now?

[slow berry]

Also you forget we have like

glimmer, lmao

siva and quicksilver are only really useful if you have nothing else

[gilded wing]

What I mean is that for Quicksilver to truly reach its peak as a "good SIVA", it'd require us to lose a lot of problems, because it really could just fix all kinds of economic, infrastructural and military problems by doing what it's done; make things on a grand scale.

It lacks the major downsides to SIVA, and it just wouldn't make for a good story to have quicksilver start fixing everything.

[slow berry]

ok but glimmer also does that

[gilded wing]

But it also isn't being used to just fix everything.

Just the same as quicksilver.

[slow berry]

Like the whole point of SIVA and Quicksilver is that they self-replicate and thus you can make a lot out of a little

Which is good for the colony ships

Useless everywhere else

[versed orbit]

Quicksilver nanoshit > Siva > Glimmer

[slow berry]

Programmable matter isn't rare in-universe

[gilded wing]

SIVA was supposed to, and was a core piece of the Golden Age's true thriving, but it wasn't enough and now we're here.

[gilded wing]

I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying if we used it in-universe how we'd use it IRL (to fix every problem it could be used to fix), we'd be lacking in a LOT of problems.

[blazing wasp]

its not that Siva wasnt enough its that the fucking apocalypse happened

[slow berry]

It was only developed near the very end of the Golden Age, it wasn't a core part of it at all

[gilded wing]

I.e. when the Iron Lords showed up, it just killed them.

[slow berry]

They did the entire golden age without SIVA

[blazing wasp]

I mean thats kinda saying like the gun killed the guy and not the one holding the gun

[slow berry]

SIVA was explicitly designed for the colony ships to speed up development in barren lands

[slow berry]

also no it like

took a while

was a proper battle

[gilded wing]

I should've been a lil more clear, my mistake. I didn't mean to say that, I meant to prop up the colony ships and accelerate development, and had the apocalypse not happened, it would've pushed the GA to a whole new level (but yk, everything ended).

[slow berry]

Most of the Iron Lords died to Rasputin's other security systems

[versed orbit]

Frauds

[gilded wing]

Yeah, it did, but it still killed them, and it was under poor management fighting Iron Lords who were also fighting Rasputin.

If we could control SIVA, we either killed Rasputin or could control him (or work with him), and that'd whisk most of our problems away.

[blazing wasp]

Siva doesnt work without Rasputin

it doesnt need him to control it, but it needs him to be alive.

[gilded wing]

SIVA was theoretically capable of fixing so many problems for so little cost, and that's my point. It was destroyed because it was a problem, but also how do you really handle that without sidelining it?

Glimmer is reprogrammable matter, but it's not being used to its true, fullest extent. It's not being used to fix everything. If we used these things in universe to their fullest extents, we'd only really have to worry about things like the Darkness.

[blazing wasp]

(Yes that means all siva except for outbreaks very simple siva is fully dead.)

[gilded wing]

It could be maintained without Rasputin, you'd just need a replacement AI of a similar level. If that were the case, then every ship that was going to be fitted with it would have needed a copy of Rasputin, and if ever one failed or died or was wiped, the SIVA would also collapse.

It was tied to Rasputin due to its technological complexity, not because it need Raspusin specifically. It's just that Rasputin was the only AI around capable of doing that, so technically, without him, it'd fail to function but that's assuming we could never create something like Rasputin, but since it was done once, it's theoretically possible again.

[slow berry]

I think you're seeing SIVA as this magical thing that does anything when that has simply never been the case

It's mostly a structural element

[blazing wasp]

No

They confirmed it

[slow berry]

"AI of a similar" level does not exist

[gilded wing]

It consumes matter to create matter and can self replicate. That allows it to supplement infrastructure and reduce economic costs tremendously.

[blazing wasp]

they explicitly confirmed it

not subtle hinting, they just outright told us, siva's function dependend on Rasputin

[slow berry]

Rasputin is vastly above any AI ever developed in-universe as far as we know

[gilded wing]

In what?

[blazing wasp]

iirc a tweet and a lore tab

prob as a way to make people shut up about wanting siva back lmao

[gilded wing]

Do you recall what lore tab? Not that I doubt you, I just don't recall it and wanna read it if that's the case.

[slow berry]

but we don't have those issues?

[blazing wasp]

i dont no, apologies

or i'd link it

[slow berry]

Our issues aren't infrastructural at all

[queen swallow]

when in doubt, @trim grotto probably knows. Any ideas?

[slow berry]

The whole reason why "consumes matter to transform matter" is attractive is to establish colony settlements and get things started, not for it to just do anything and everything

[gilded wing]

It doesn't have to be an issue for it to be eased up on to allow other issues to be focused on. If you never had to worry about that at all, because your supplementary tool will fix it before you even realize it's going wrong, you can completely ignore that entire side of your society.

War will be a concern of only loss of life, not loss of material, space, tools or infrastructure. You can focus entirely on automation, militarization and growth.

[slow berry]

The Devil Splicers didn't even use it to replace their Ether

[gilded wing]

The Devil Splicers also weren't particularly smart and were drunk on power. They were never going to use it for much.

They thought of the now, not the future.

Splice now, figure it out later.

[slow berry]

They couldn't use it for much

[gilded wing]

No worries. It makes sense they went that route, though.

[slow berry]

It was simply unfinished technology that was more dangerous than it was useful

It would've been useful to the Last City when it was being built, sure

Maybe we can take some over to Torobatl if we ever get rid of their bug problem

[gilded wing]

It never really ever would've stopped being useful, because if all else were to fail and it wasn't this solution to so many problems, it would at the least reduce the stressors upon glimmer and enable the burden of creation and providing to be shared between them, which would just allow more to be done at once. It'd just be yet another tool to use, and given it can consume to create, it could be used to great effect to do a lot of things while Glimmer does others.

If you can create more than you consume with something, it's always useful. There's always something you need.

And SIVA can replicate itself, but I don't think Glimmer does.

IIrc, it's kinda like something we "mine" or "find", vs just pull out of a replication chamber.

[ember storm]

just to clarify, Rasputin was never meant to be involved with siva in any substantial capacity

he only used it once as a secret weapon against Felwinter and the remaining iron lords who made it inside the replication chamber, and it was perfectly fine then

his command program was specifically "REPLICATE. ELIMINATE. IMMUNIZE." which was actually very controlled and precise

he put it down and never touched it again after the iron lords died

the only issue came later when the devil splicers stumbled upon it and unwisely programmed it to instead "~consume enhance replicate~"

no room for alterations, no specific objective, just consume and replicate indefinitely

it also didn't help that Aksis took this and decided it would be great to uplift himself as the eliksni's new machine god that would surmount the traveler

ignoring all of that siva is actually pretty good at what it does

[trim grotto]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/213856835369828355/1191029481293484032/freeze-2.gif

First I will have to get out of bed haha

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cecesovo-stan-twitter-crying-gif-22455818

[slim girder]

Fallen devil splicers more "co-opted" Siva. They could mold it and point it in certain ways but it was still always going to fulfil the directive Rasputin had given it.
Even their Archon Aksis apparently had voices in the back of his head as part of symbiosis with Siva making people wonder if Aksis was being puppeted by Rasputin and the siva was protecting itself in the same way it used the old Iron lords corpses to protect the replication chamber

[gilded wing]

Oh, yes, this I know (and why I have always held onto the belief that Rasputin wasn't the one true core of SIVA), though apparently, that's been canonized, unfortunately.

It was very good at what it did. I'd even say too good. The consumption and vicious following of orders was a problem :')

[gilded wing]

Yeah, they just figured out how to direct it, not so much control it. They gave it the one command to do what they wanted from it, but didn't really have any control over it then or after. It just so happened the command worked in their favor. Mostly.

I've heard the theory that Aksis was being puppeted by Rasputin, and while it's certainly very interesting and does align with Rasputin's purpose, I don't know that I fully believe it solely because unlike the Iron Lords, the Devil Splicers/Aksis weren't dead and I don't think SIVA or Rasputin would be using something that alive to protect themselves/fulfil the directive if they could just kill it and puppet it.

Though, the context of it within WOTM and our journey to kill it off is interesting with that theory, because it creates a dilemma that possibly suggests Rasputin didn't want SIVA destroyed by that point? I guess that potential would depend on if Rasputin truly believed us as wanting to destroy it, or if he assumed we were acting akin to the Iron Lords of time past and sought to control it and use it.

Though, on that same train, if Rasputin was puppeting Aksis, it very well could've been to ensure the absolute destruction of him and the Devil Splicers, and that's also interesting.

[slow berry]

The theory that Aksis was being puppetted is p silly bc we have literal internal thoughts of what Aksis was going through

[gilded wing]

Well, yeah, aside from that, I mean. That confirms it's not the case but the idea is interesting, just not believable to me, even if we didn't have that deadringer of a theory killer.

[slim girder]

<@&1019968308973416448>

[dense pike]

.saucesquatch has been banned!

[slim girder]

Appreciate it mods

[ember storm]

Can I see it

[broken quartz]

I just started Renegades and the Tharsis Reformation are really cool to me.

I didnt play Episode: Echoes and I didnt see anything about them in EoF but from what I understand, Maya Sunderesh used an echo to control some vex, then some began to develop autonomy and were cut off from the collective. This caused them to become actual individuals? That's really awesome if thats right.

[dim minnow]

so, when Maya obtained the Echo of Command, she used it to create the Nessian Schism, a collective of Vex given the ability to think as individuals

[broken quartz]

I remember thinking in Final Shape that we wouldnt have allies with all the alien races in the game, but with Luzaku's Brood, The Tharsis Reformation, and possibly the dread considering their situation; its clear I was dead wrong

[broken quartz]

What was the reason she did this?

[dim minnow]

she thought humanity had regressed, so she wants to bring about a new Golden Age which involves spreading her Vex all over Sol

this, of course, is something we do not want

as she is crazy

she was also trying to find this timeline's version of her wife

[broken quartz]

But why give them individuality? Was it just a side effect, or is she trying to physically replace humanity?

[dim minnow]

she was under the impression that they would still choose to follow her instead of trying to do their own thing

evidently, the existence of the Tharsis Reformation proves this to be incorrect

[broken quartz]

Thats really cool. I wish I played more of Echoes. I should watch some videos on it maybe

[dim minnow]

so she resorted to using more draconian tactics to keep them in line

like killing the ones who just want to frolic and make art

and such

[broken quartz]

Are there any other groups of individual vex that we know of? Or just the Reformation?

[dim minnow]

which was why Drifter had to help smuggle the Tharsis Reformation away from her

[broken quartz]

Free from the conductor i mean

[dim minnow]

I think the Vex in the Epic version of Desert Perpetual were doing their own thing as well

but as of yet, we don't really know of any more organized groups of independent Vex

[broken quartz]

Cool, thanks!

[dim minnow]

there's actually this rather interesting theory that the Vex facilitated Maya getting the Echo of Command just so she can cause as much chaos as possible with it

[hidden pebble]

who did the traveler blow up a ghost for again?

[slim girder]

Rhulk

[ember storm]

more specifically in order to protect it from him

contrary to what tiktok might tell you, no a ghost was not about to give rhulk the light, he snatched it out of the air mid convo and was in the process of tearing it open to try and take it for himself

the traveler saw no other option than remote detonating it while also taking the opportunity to tell him off

[glass snow]

I do hope they do more with the Dread - seemed such a ways to not use a whole new faction, considering that people have been wanting a change up from the usual races

[slow berry]

They kinda don't have a whole lot going on without the Witness

They seem to be allying with the Lord of Every Nothing as of Episode Heresy

But I guess it's a little hard to work with a faction that cannot create new forces and whose entire thing is being hollowed out and transformed into murder machines

[frigid sparrow]

They were a constant throughout the year of final shape (primary threat throughout the dlc, used in revenant, primary threat in heresy with their own dungeon) and have been seeing minor roles through solo ops so far this year. There's just a lower focus on the dread right now due to the year of prophecy focusing more on other factions

[jagged badge]

Yeah arguably you could immediately go into a Dread fatigue since they did show up essentially the whole content year of Final Shape

[frigid sparrow]

Also, we've seen specific updates to the dread with the champion additions in renegades

[dapper kayak]

grim should not be a champ

[jade patio]

Lmao why is it then

[dapper kayak]

bungie sucks

[jade patio]

Lmao

Whats new

Lmao

[jade patio]

Bungie people are weird

Giving us 360 percent DMG increase to abilities after getting kills with drang and switch to sturm is just cheese

[frigid sparrow]

I'm just sad that the caretaker is limited to being a husk champ and not its own enemy

[queen swallow]

@cerulean heath
Destiny's Warlock description, more or less:

"Warlocks are a class of Guardian who are best described as "warrior-scholars,". They utilize their Traveler-given powers for both attack and defense. Warlocks specialize in ranged melee attacks and cast elemental spells to eliminate their enemies. They are also adept at offering support to fellow Guardians and fireteam members, by healing them and enhancing the strength of their weapons, and are just as comfortable fighting from mid-air as on the ground."

(One of) D&D's definition(s):

"[They receive] their abilities through the influence of some supernatural being such as a demon or fey. They are either born with these powers or receive them through a fell pact, which turns their soul into a dark font of eldritch powers. Warlocks do not cast spells, but instead use spell-like abilities called "invocations", which represent the tapping of the power granted to the warlock. The most important of these abilities is the "eldritch blast" which is the warlock's main offensive ability, firing a blast of magical energy at the target."

[jade patio]

🫡

[cerulean heath]

oh man

they are almost the same but still have differences

[dapper kayak]

by dnd definitions all guardians might be warlocks

lol

celestial patron warlocks probably

[cerulean heath]

i can see that

[dapper kayak]

savathun is kinda similar to a fae

like actions wise

[cerulean heath]

hey why do you hate titans

is there a lore reason why?

[dapper kayak]

melee bullshit in pvp

[cerulean heath]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

me too bro

i understand you now

[dapper kayak]

i do occasionally play titan but that's basically just strand titan so i can have both grapple and float in same subclass for final warning

[cerulean heath]

i dont really have alot of builds for the other classes

just hunter

[dapper kayak]

i dont play hunter, dont find it that fun

[cerulean heath]

yeah there isnt a lot of fun in destiny to begin with atleast not for me

[rigid flower]

Question that the answer is probably just "bungie forgot:" is there a reason we don't actually see any citizen Exos? We see mostly humans, which makes sense, the city being populated by Eliksni, and on rare occasion some Awoken, but outside of Lightbearers and Banshee, I don't think we see a single Exo.

[trim grotto]

Well, Exo are rarer than the others, so there's that. Are you referring to literally seeing, or reading about in lore?

[rigid flower]

Literally. I just randomly took notice that we don't actually see any Exos at the tower, or even in the opening cutscene of TFS.

[trim grotto]

There's Lakshmi-2.

And Ada-1

[slow berry]

Exos weren't very common

They were only made near the end of the Golden Age, and have no reproductive functions whatsoever

And the only way to make new ones is highly unethical at best and also was completely lost to us until a few years ago

The only living human exos would've had to survive the entire collapse up until the modern day

[slim girder]

Don't forget Elsie

[modern lodge]

Uhm dead.....

[modern lodge]

Ada is special no?

[jagged badge]

That’s not relevant to the point though

[jagged badge]

Neither is this

[trim grotto]

Sure, she is. But she's still a civvie, end of the day.

Certainly not a Lightbearer

[jagged badge]

Yeah, the point is they’re just examples of non-Lightbearer Exos

[trim grotto]

Yeah she's not ursine whatsoever

[jagged badge]

You’re not ursine whatsoever

[trim grotto]

True!

[modern lodge]

Relax, it's because I vaguely remember something about Ada being special compared to other exos

[jagged badge]

I am relaxed

[modern lodge]

Nuh uh

[trim grotto]

Aye, her body was a custom joint project between the Black Armory of the Golden Age and Clovis Bray.

[modern lodge]

What benefits did it actually provide again?

[trim grotto]

Well, when paired with the Obsidian Accelerator, she was a walking, talking Forge.

[modern lodge]

Thats right

Meesa remember nowsa

[modern lodge]

And now she makes synthweave

[trim grotto]

Mm.

[modern lodge]

What is the lore reason for synthweave again?

Bungie make transmog money?

[trim grotto]

It was a Golden Age Braytech project. Ada... well, she wanted to pivot away from the weapons trade.

So we went and nabbed the blueprints.

...plus, the Forges were stolen during the Arrival(s) of the Black Fleet and the Taking of the worlds.

[lofty badge]

Where do Hive broods that are far away from any of the worm gods get their Worm Larva from to put into their newborn thralls?

[blazing wasp]

pretty sure theyre born with their larvas

[slim girder]

Presumably it's a bit like how a trait is passed through generations.
The original (krill) took in the worms becoming the hive and from that moment forward new broods would then be birthed with those worms already present ready to be placed into thralls and acolytes.

[lofty badge]

ah

[slow berry]

wait

do the hive have mothers and fathers or do they reproduce asexually

like do we know of hive that have fathers and mothers

crota's mom or whatever

[slim girder]

Bit complicated. But it seems in order for at least the hive pantheon to have spawn they must select a "matron" and in oryxs case this was Thyshik Matron of Oryx.
Whereas for Crota it was Omnigul

[slow berry]

savathun is yuri,,,,

[slim girder]

Again it's complicated. Sadly no concrete evidence for savathun and xivus kids

We just know they had children (that we subsequently have now killed)

[slow berry]

And stolen the head of, sometimes

[slim girder]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-are-we-the-baddies-surprised-gif-19176339

At least they make for good fashion though

[ember storm]

This specific case was never confirmed, for the record

Matron can just as easily mean institutional nanny/nurse relationship and the fact she was never once mentioned by name anywhere else leads me to believe she’s not particularly important

At the very least, we can confirm that most hive would seek out a fitting mate in order to make a strong brood

I wouldn’t take any of Oryx’s activity as biological standard, though

He literally just willed a change in his physiology to give him wings

Also the fact he only had like 4 biological children as opposed to the standard actual brood

[ember storm]

Actually I should do the invincible meme with Savathun holding the head of Malok

[lofty badge]

i do think most hive wizards are female

[slow berry]

Not all, though

Nokris was male

[slim girder]

I know. That's why I started by saying it seems like that could be the case. We have matrons related to oryx and crota but ofc hive reproduction is different to humans so a matron could also just be the person who maybe transfers the "seed" into an egg which then hatches the offspring.
I believe this was how Crota was born.

There were many before Crota but he was the strongest and so became Oryxs official son.

[ember storm]

There also whatever the hell the Mindbender had going on

[slim girder]

Yeah I'm not sure that was the most normal thing in the world

Good thing no offspring came out of that because in spiders words "Eliksni ingenuity with Hive Ferocity"

They'd be a big problem to deal with

[ember storm]

At the very least we can safely say that Mara creating Parasite is a total copyright infringement of the ether worms

Hiraks should get a good settlement out of this

[slow berry]

Ether worms were FOSP (free and open source parasites) so she's fine as long as she credited and used the same license

[slim girder]

Ehh I'm sure the hive won't miss one out of the trillions of worms they have right?

Better things to worry about like not going extinct now that they only have 2 notable figures left in terms of hierarchy

[slow berry]

top post on the subreddit is "the vex should get siva" i'm going to do something unwise

[heady gyro]

i dont think that's a good idea

[slim girder]

No

No

[frigid sparrow]

Reading through the comments made me genuinely frustrated and I knew I couldn't say anything because it'd be downvoted by the Siva larpers who think the vex would give a shit in any way about siva

Like there is a very simple premise here of "the place where this Easter egg comes from, nessus, a whole planetoid, is already transformed by the vex whereas the plaguelands was contained"

Like no the vex do not give a shit about siva, there was minimal chances for them to interact with it during the Siva crisis (iirc a mission on the moon), and the devil splicers were killed off and anything Siva related was dropped prior to release since bungie instead with the formation of house dusk

[slow berry]

theres a funny comment thread where the OP is entirely wrong about what the Vex are and someone else is giving them direct excerpts from the lore books and they're still like

nah

[frigid sparrow]

There was something like "the vex could transform mercury within days, Siva is nothing compared to that and it'd take years for real progress" and someone was like "okay but time is relative to the vex"

YEAH IT IS RELATIVE BUT IT'S NOT FUCKING RELATIVE TO US THAT'S WHY MERCURY BEING TERRAFORMED SO QUICKLY WITHOUT SIVA IS BAD FOR US

[slow berry]

if you were to tell me "the vex are trying to get into rasputin's vaults in an attempt to digitize and revive what was a human thinking mind on the scale of the larger Minds, capable of doing and understanding things they themselves cannot" id be like

Yeah ok cook

[frigid sparrow]

PRECISELY

[slow berry]

but instead its "what if the vex went after rasputin's middle school project"

[frigid sparrow]

But what's happening on the exodus black is NOT that

[slow berry]

anyway i brought the site down

so it should be fine

[ember storm]

[hidden pebble]

could ghosts just rez any guardian?

[jagged badge]

A paired Ghost can only rez the Guardian they are paired with. This is only challenged in like a single line in lore and nowhere else I believe

If you mean when an unpaired Ghost is still finding their Guardian, that’s sorta vague I feel

A Ghost feels like they have a connection to just one person that they have to find. Our Ghost took centuries looking for us. Crow’s Ghost also waited centuries, and his Guardian wasn’t even dead yet for most of them

[hidden pebble]

could there still be any looking for a certain person to turn into a lightbearer?

[jagged badge]

Yeah

Bungie are intentionally vague about the number of Ghosts, to justify more New Lights (and also more Hive Guardians) being around

[frigid sparrow]

Renegades has us collecting ghosts without guardians

[ember storm]

Give them to spider for a prize

[ember storm]

do you think Riven just doesn't understand how genetics work

like yeah super cool and emotional that your clutch will live on

thats just a single generation tho

[slow berry]

They're wish dragons keen on exiting the universe, I think they can probably figure out a way to make it work

[slim girder]

Animal kingdom finds a way

[grim kite]

Goodness does anyone remember of the being Mithrax talked about that haunted the Eliksni in the past? He mentioned it in the end of the Override mission.

[queen swallow]

It was Saint-14

[grim kite]

Not him, a legend from the past back then they were at their home planet Riis. I think I remember there name started with an 'S' maybe

[frigid sparrow]

Could you find the quote

[queen swallow]

The Slayer Barons?

You asked this same question like two years ago lmao

[queen swallow]

@grim kite

[slow berry]

Skira, the Watcher

Implied to be Nezarec

[grim kite]

YESSS lmao I know I forgot the name again 😭 😂

[velvet hawk]

Sorry I'm probably stupid

Farming some exotic armors with engrams i thought... in lore the Helm of saint 14 is mentioned like there is 1, same as like felwinters helmet

In lore is there only one or like an "original" that guardians then copy

[slow berry]

There's a lot of exotic weapons and armor in the game we canonically have no business owning

It's just for gameplay purposes

[velvet hawk]

So there is no in game explanation to multiple copies

I could've sworn there was something like multiple copies of ghe thorn being made

But there was a stronger original thorn

[slow berry]

That's one specific case, yes

then there's things like us having The Last Word (and a exotic quest requiring its use) in Destiny 1 when we wouldn't have able to own it at the time

Or the Praxic Fire exotic armor piece(s?) when we weren't a member of the praxic order

etc. etc.

[queen swallow]

Saint just goes "Hah, you look like me" if you walk up to him while wearing his helmet

[trim grotto]

It depends very much on the Exotic.
Hard Light, for example, is simply produced by Omolon. No reason we can't have multiple.

The Helm of Saint-14 is a replica, of course, since we hadn't even found Saint's body in D1. And as Squid says, he even acknowledges it if you wear it near him. So, replica.

[ember storm]

Pretty sure there was also a guardian games tab showcasing a warlock betting his prized god roll felwinter helm

[frigid sparrow]

I have a very arbitrary graph that both needs to be updated and explains the general lore vibes of how easy it should be to make copies of certain exotic weapons

[dim minnow]

technically it was the fireteam leader betting her Felwinter's Helm without her permission

since they thought that giving the team of Titans they were up against existensial dread would give them the win

[frigid sparrow]

okay I updated it I remembered this time do not ask me about the d1 exotics I will spontaneously combust because I forgor

[slow berry]

Outbreak is the only one of its kind, innit?

SIVA minireplication chamber and allat

[frigid sparrow]

deepsight weapon

if it's deepsight I automatically put it there which is why something like whisper is also there

[slow berry]

oh im deadass not counting deepsight re-crafting a gun from nothing as like

a real thing

i just take that as a very lame game design chocie rather than an actual worldbuilding element

I thought Graviton Lance as a DEO prototype from Chicago innit

Well, Häkke or something probably could work it out

[frigid sparrow]

yeah

[slow berry]

I think we have confirmation of multiple Sleeper Simulants given that the whole point of the gun (and the lore around it) was that Rasputin had begun manufacturing them for Guardians

I don't see the Khvostov 7G-0X here but I'm guessing that's very much in the tier of impossible to recreate

[frigid sparrow]

the thing with khvostov is that it's like

just kind of a gun

a very special gun

[slow berry]

We do recreate and fix it in D1 with some (rather humorous) manuals

But that version is closer to the legendary one in D2

[velvet hawk]

lumina in no duplicates?

[frigid sparrow]

It's based on the original thorn

The actual weapon of sorrow

[lofty badge]

[slim girder]

So where do we go from here lorewise I guess.

[river belfry]

So....the ending is gonna be "the earth is dying"

[lofty badge]

i hope they gonna make a new game..?

cause they left a lot of unfinished story stuff from last expac

if they never making a game in destiny again we will have to resort to fanfics

[slim girder]

No clue what happens from here really.

[lofty badge]

can't wait to write a fanfic how my guardian 1v1 Bael

[versed orbit]

Crazy

[lofty badge]

i mean i guess the discord still exists?

the servers will remain

[versed orbit]

Wonder how they’ll wrap up all this bullshit

[lofty badge]

just no new story update ever again

[lofty badge]

what if they don't?

"Oh all these unfinished stories? Idk lol"

[river belfry]

Hear me out, if we get a new game. They revealed we failed and the earth is destroyed. We play as a new guardian due to ours dying and cannot be rez.
Our (old) Ghost is one of our guides

[lofty badge]

the fate saga was just dreams the nine was sending us to wake up?

[slim girder]

We can always theorycraft

[bright hearth]

If D1 servers can stay up, even now, D2 will survive until what's next. Things are dark, yes, but the light remains. Head up, Guardians, Sol still needs us.

[fervent condor]

can there be a d3 lore wise?

[blazing wasp]

of course

lore wise it would have been possible for every dlc to be a new game

[queen walrus]

"Monument of Triumph will deliver small character beats to leave the story and characters in interesting places, touching on themes across Destiny."
Let me guess the characters with relationships will continue to speak about their relationship instead of actual lore and development

[shy remnant]

story of this entire franchise

[ember skiff]

i just wish D2 would have ended with us the players knowing who the 9 were and how they played the role in everything.

[shy remnant]

I wonder if they’re just gonna act like nothing happened post final shape cause we’re not exactly at a point where everything will just go on like normal

[frigid sparrow]

Y'know what

We're never gonna find out what happened to Io are we

[shy remnant]

[frigid sparrow]

Well they still had 2 dlcs planned so those would likely act as a basis for continuing the story

[shy remnant]

yeah but that would be an odd starting point for a sequel wouldn’t it?
I don’t imagine they’ll one day come back to d2 either

[frigid sparrow]

The basis of the red war begins with the cabal present in the taken king sending out signals readying ghaul for his invasion

[shy remnant]

Yeah but like they still had to introduce ghaul and the red legion. We have bael, the nine, and lodi already established as characters and midway through their journeys. There would have to be a lot ground to be retread.

[frigid sparrow]

I mean realistically it's not that much ground to retread

They're already obviously gonna reintroduce everyone that exists like they do in every dlc

Having a recap of the major threats at play wouldn't be that wild

And depending on various destinations also sets up what's the state of the system

[shy remnant]

I would just rather start with something new cause it’ll probably be multiple years before we even have a continuation

[queen walrus]

gee bill TWO nova bombs? Why stop at 2 when we had shatter in d1

oops sorry wrong place

[frigid sparrow]

I think the fates saga is so far very good and deserves to be continued actually

[river surge]

So in the end The Winnower actually won

and The Witness was right

🔥

[slim elk]

Nah
The easiest solution for fixing Earth?
"The Traveler does its thing and stop Earth from becoming uninhabitable"

[shy remnant]

It does I’m just frustrated with the story just halting now. Makes me wish it was saved for a d3

[river surge]

The Traveler once again awakens and fixes Earth

ggs

[slim elk]

I did feel like the whole sudden twist was really forced for drama

[river surge]

More than just drama

[slim elk]

We go from things finally looking towards a new era to "nope humanity is doomed again"

[river surge]

they couldve have retcon the whole thing

but they decided to end it like that

Still up to this day I find it really odd that they forced the story from an universal threat with an actually build up to basically nothing

[frigid sparrow]

How is that a twist

Obviously the nine are gonna fuck something up

III being dead is a twist
Earth being threatened and feeling harmful effects from said death is not also a twist

[river surge]

The Nine were kept so long for the Light and Darkness saga to end, and now when they are in action the story is fucked and the game ends

[frigid sparrow]

I wouldn't say the story is fucked

The story is quite good, just a lot of setup for obvious reasons

[river surge]

Yeah but they have to conclude with whats left

Maybe its finally time for them to drop the full lore in action and when I mean lore I mean the sole purpose of The Traveler and its creation all the way to present

but this time let me understand whats going on

[slim elk]

I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed much like the Witness species

There is no grand purpose to it. It just likes to help

[river surge]

Fairly generic

[slim elk]

I'm just going to be amused if the Traveler really does solve the issue of Earth becoming inhospitable

[river surge]

I mean what else could they do now, The Traveler is our only hope currently in the story

[slim elk]

It's not like all the characters in verse ignored that sort of the thing it likes to do

[river surge]

as it always was

The worst scenario ever

A 2nd Traveler

boom

I would imagine them doing that

I really would

[ember skiff]

my fav screen shot

the lore behind it all and now not knowing wtf happened is going to drive me nuts

[frigid sparrow]

I mean

We do know what happened

[ember skiff]

yeah to 3.... but to the others and their roles were, and what Maya had planned... we wont know.

[spiral sorrel]

"So, go now. This chapter is over, but remember now, and remember always:

'Nothing ends.'"

— Shin Malphur to you, as you journey forth into the unknown

[cold onyx]

Im sad we will not get any continuation on the fate saga

Cause edge of fate really did a good job at setting it up

[dim minnow]

we were finally going to Old Chicago

[ember skiff]

i wanted to know if Ikora Rey found her daughter

[slim girder]

I wanted to see what binding the nine actually looked like

We won't get to meet the winnower either

[magic hawk]

I was just talking about this man weeks and kinda years of build up

Idk if you guys remember this but back in the leaks prior to witch Queen they had old Chicago as a place of interest for that expansion and even dating back to D1 now when they confirm it boom Destiny dead

The curse of old Chicago I guess but Damm bro

[magic hawk]

Hoping Lowkey this will be D3 villain, even if not the main game villain - if a D3 is made eventually it has to be a saga of some sort and then we back into the game for years

[cold onyx]

I feel like their not done with this IP

their gonna do something

Not just end story like that

I feel shattered cycle/the alchemist will be the starting point for d3

[slim girder]

We can only hope something is planned for the future but there's no way to tell so all we can do is wait

[magic hawk]

Insane tho to wait years like would we even remember this by the time it’s 2030 and at that, could they just retcon it and start from scratch post Final shape

That’s why I hope that the small story beats sorta leave it out there to be very interesting and somewhat of a farewell

And I want to hold out hope that they will give a conclusion on every character and faction but I think it will be impossible to do so

[cold onyx]

It’s still a bummer

[magic hawk]

Like dude think about it

[cold onyx]

We think the games ever gonna truly like hit 0 on steam or will their be that hardcore community that raids

[magic hawk]

Savathun, Zavala, Saint 14, the stranger, just so much.

[cold onyx]

Yeah

[magic hawk]

Possibly who knows but I think there will be people there in September

[cold onyx]

Next year

[magic hawk]

Like if the onboarding process isn’t bad and this update helps with new players yeah but it will be less then like a 1000 on steam charts

[cold onyx]

1000 players

Or like ranking

[magic hawk]

By the time next year I can’t even imagine 2027 serisouly but I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news but anthem is just clear foreshadowing of this

I know the servers are on but who knows if the studio keeps the servers on years out from now

[cold onyx]

It’s a bummer cause I love doing raids and dungeons

And just sometimes wanna raid for the fun of it

[magic hawk]

Facts for real man it’s still wild that it’s over

[cold onyx]

But no players means no LFG

[magic hawk]

I did plenty of raid races day 1 streamed on my channel and meant a lot of friends - deep stone crypt was that amazing

[cold onyx]

I’m trying to create a little community that’s willing to open the game occasionally for raid nights

[magic hawk]

So to see it over it true really hurts man

[cold onyx]

I grew up with this game started in 6th grade now in finishing junior year of HS

[magic hawk]

That’s fire dude- I commend you for it. We gotta bring people together

Oh man im so unc level I started playing destiny 1 third grade

Now I’m a junior

In college

lol 😂

[cold onyx]

If you ever want an invite hjt me up sometime

I’m still like semi making the server

[magic hawk]

For sure bro

[narrow trellis]

Main boss could be xivu, with sidequests for savathun, then side quests as set up for expansions in dealing with the alchemist and helping mara through the second rise of the ahamkara, and obviously as a final boss itd be the winnower

[raw hazel]

In our dreams, perhaps

[slim girder]

Lord of every nothing will go unfinished

[river surge]

The Witness won in the end

🔥

Also The Fate Saga is now officialy non canon

I would say

Cause its unfinished and sloppy

With nothing no buildup or anything just dead

If they are ever making a D3

Retcon it

[dim minnow]

acting like a Star Wars fan ain't gonna help

[river surge]

It still bad

With or without

[dim minnow]

the story in Edge of Fate and Renegades were actually pretty good

[river surge]

Renegades*

Edge of Fate was soo unnecessary

[dim minnow]

how so?
It introduced us to Lodi and several key details about the Nine and where this saga will be headed

[jagged badge]

Just writing fanfic lmao

[river surge]

Yeah and we went to Star Wars like expansion

[slim girder]

Edge of fate set a foundation for a new saga. People said the exact same thing about D1 at launch but that was the point.
Questions weren't going to be answered there

[dim minnow]

I thought they did a pretty good job mixing the Star Wars stuff with the Destiny stuff in Renegades tbh

[slim girder]

Same

[river surge]

The thing about D1 is that they promised 10 year plan while this saga they didnt promise anything, just 4 expansions and then what

[dim minnow]

they could continue the story in other forms of media