📚lore-discussion

[hallow horizon]

old and new marathon have the same lore

they're different games just like

set in the same lore

[slim girder]

Oh yeah I got that much. I know the basics like marathon being a ship that used Deimos hollowed out core as its own framework and would then establish colonies on other planets. MIDA was also a group responsible for a coup of sorts to stop tau ceti being built but it didn't succeed fully

Marathon on Tau ceti IV establishes a colony and almost a decade later the Pfor who are alien slavers attack that colony

[grand jungle]

did we ever find out what the veil was

[trim grotto]

Yes. Have you listened to the Veil Logs with Osiris and Nimbus on Neomuna?

[grand jungle]

Not in ages tbh

[glass snow]

Man, I just want an expansion about the Dread and for Bungie to do something interesting with them

[slim girder]

Wdym?
We had a whole dungeon to expand on them not too long ago

[hallow horizon]

Isn't Tau Ceti the star system

Nobody built Tau Ceti afaik

They built marathon and stuff like that

[river surge]

The Traveler counterpart

[hard sigil]

"building" tau ceti as in the colony

[hallow horizon]

Oh

[river surge]

The theory goes deeper

Notice how The Winnower talks so much about the universe in a more metaphorical way

[sonic sun]

would you mind elaborating?

[rigid flume]

Hey guys! I’m looking for someone who can help me adapt Destiny 2 into a D&D campaign. I really need someone who knows the lore very well and can guide me through it.
If you’re down and able to help, please DM me

It really is an interesting project and unfortunately I don't have enough time to get into lore deeply. so if someone can help. PLEASE

[hallow horizon]

Unfortunately can't help, I'm happy you're not a scammer though cuz that was my first thought when I got a random ass friend and message request lol

[rigid flume]

yeah i thought so😭

do you know someone who can help?

[hallow horizon]

Unfortunately I do not, I'm pretty new to the lore stuff

[rigid flume]

okeee np

[blazing wasp]

Im somewhat familiar: Mael would be best, if he's around

Ive also got a... decent familiarity with DND, so i might be of use?

[rigid flume]

can i dm u?

[blazing wasp]

sure

appreciate you asking!

[trim grotto]

I'm gonna DM you when you least expect it without requesting permission

For I am devious

[ember storm]

I am undecided on whether or not I’ll dm you

It will be decided at a later time

[slim girder]

@rigid flume if you're still looking for a DND in destiny style i highly recommend checking out this community project from a long time ago.
Has a whole bestiary and everything to adapt destiny to DnD

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/oDyh50zK8Z

[queen swallow]

They're also apparently funding a second edition

[slim girder]

^^^^

This was a massive project and even though I'm not into D&D it's still a really awesome thing to see

[blazing wasp]

I mean yeah, you can do that, you're amongst those I'd consider an exception

I was hoping it was obvious I hold you to high enough respect for that

[ember storm]

What if I don’t respect you

[blazing wasp]

id say thats fair and cry

[heady gyro]

why do the eliksni pirates fear Misraaks? is he actually scary on the battlefield?

[slim girder]

Because in his pirate day misraaks took a piece of nezarecs corpse. The darkness within corrupted him and made him much more merciless towards other eliksni

[heady gyro]

oh right. we cured him with the Nezcafe herbal tea

[slim girder]

We cured Osiris with that tea. Mithrax just made it.
But those body parts we gathered during that season were mementos that eliksni pirates conveted because of their power

[heady gyro]

wait, is that what corrupted misraaks recently or am i remembering wrong. They really need to keep seasonal stories as campaigns dawg

[slim girder]

The influence of nezarec left from making that herbal teas was what was taking its toll back in episode revenant.
The memento he wore back during his pirate days he locked away iirc after seeing just how much of a monster he'd become

[heady gyro]

did we just throw away the memento? I forgot

[slim girder]

Those mementos were what was made into that tea that cured Osiris.

Mithrax distilled and seperated the darkness from them. He took it all into himself leaving something that could wake Osiris up

And in episode revenant that all began to finally take its toll and start to really have an effect on him

[dim minnow]

the effects were starting to set in a little bit before that, but it wasn't until Revenant where it got really bad

[heady gyro]

How did we cure him

[dim minnow]

Eramis did it with the Echo of Riis

She used its power to purge most of Nezarec's influence from Mithrax

[heady gyro]

How generous of her

[slim elk]

Of course Eramis promptly runs off with it instead of helping to cure the rest of the Scorn

[frigid sparrow]

I think we can presume that any of the Na-Veskirisk were brought back, if possible

The scorn are still undead beings, and the being back the undead as fallen is likely impossible

Fikrul was pissed with us killing the barons for a reason

[river creek]

Is the heat death of the universe a problem in the lore?

Like is there a way to stop it, or is it simply not a problem in the first place?

[slow berry]

I'm sure it would've been a problem before the Traveler and the whole light thing but I'm p sure at this point we can safely assume you can effectively introduce energy from nothing to the universe

Even if it weren't the universe is so young and the latent obstacles to humanity so immediate that it wouldn't really matter

[river surge]

Not a problem for now

[queen swallow]

Like, the timeline is a few hundred years ahead of current. The heat death of the universe is probably like a few billion times that

[slow berry]

its kinda the same problem in destiny that it is in real life

[hallow horizon]

Maybe in a few billion years bungie will make it relevant and we'll have to prevent it but I genuinely doubt that happening

[dim minnow]

I think it was because they didn't want to risk another mass Revenant Scorn outbreak so her leaving Sol with it was considered a safer option.

[slim elk]

Just found the whole rationale for that season pretty weak storywise

We break Eramis out of jail when the whole point is keeping her as a hostage so both House Salvation and City citizens can agree to let Guardians assist hostile Eliskni....

Couldn't we just stick her on a leash like we were doing with Immaru?

[dim minnow]

Immaru didn't even have a leash

I have no idea what tf we were even doing with him

Like he went on a whole Scooby-dooby-doo ass scheme at one point

[queen swallow]

Not much of anything. We basically held Savathun’s body hostage so he couldn’t get to it and revive her

[dim minnow]

I'm talking about after she was rezzed

She left her Ghost with us as collateral

[slim elk]

Yeah
Be pretty easy to have Eramis be around as a consultant instead of the nonsensical motivation there

[slow berry]

She actively did not want to be here, and neither did the Echo

[slim elk]

The Echos opinion does not matter

It went for Fikrul first

[slim girder]

Echo of Riis after hanging out with fikrul for a day thinking he'd use its power for good

https://tenor.com/view/puss-in-boots-the-last-wish-jiminy-cricket-youre-horrible-irredeemable-monster-gif-27435476

[dim minnow]

Echo of Command after having to put up with Maya's delusional coping for the 10th time

[heady gyro]

the echoes are pretty damn stupid now that you mention it

did any echo come to us at all??

[trim grotto]

No, though I doubt they were entirely in control. One crashed through the surface of Nessus of all places.

[blazing wasp]

Yea that place is a shit hole why go there

[slim girder]

Echo of Riis I presume hit the tangled shore or reef area generally though I've forgotten if there was lore describing the event.
And the Echo of the navigator just hit the dreadnaught I believe

[heady gyro]

Echo of nav going to the dreadnaught gotta be a controlled action

Same with Echo of Riis

[slim girder]

They were flung from the pale heart and that's really it tbh.

[slim elk]

Technically Oryx was fully willing to let us use him in the Echo of Navigation

We just didn't want to claim the Osmium throne for.... reasons

Corruption doesn't really work anymore given we had already annihilated the Witness and didn't succumb to temptation with Stasis which was the primary Guardian Corruption method

[blazing wasp]

reason being not really being keen on sword logic and all that jazz

[slim elk]

Claiming the throne would really have more benefits at that point
Grab control of the Taken, remove them as a threat.

If anything would bait out Xivu from whatever corner she's crying in.. would also do it.

Even Savathun would be more willing to work with us

[hard sigil]

it's just an ideological opposition

by accepting the throne we'd be confirming and accepting that the sword logic is true

which is not something we'd like to admit

and would leave us bound to the logic, and vulnerable to further Anthem Anatheme exploitation by the worm gods

[blazing wasp]

we've only really used the sword logic to act as an extension of bomb logic

[slim elk]

Already too late for that with Xol turning into a gun we use

And ideological opposition doesn't work either with us helping Eris as a Hive God

So we already confirmed and accepted the sword logic as truth with us doing all those tithes

[hard sigil]

in neither of those cases are we the subject of the logic

the tithes are going to Eris and Xol

if we were to become the object of worship it'd be a different story

[slim elk]

(Besides. Oryx being technically in the Echo was also a massive headache for the logic lol)

They dropped a lot of story line potential they could have done.

Heck. Savathun wanted to show Oryx what happened to Fundament and the Echo was willing to go

Get Oryx himself to renounce the logic upon seeing the lies that were told

[hard sigil]

and then do what? the issue with the echoes is that they're pretty much undefined in what they're able to do

its implied that all three are sentient, but we don't know how far that goes

[slim elk]

A new Era of hope as humanity brings down the walls and starts looking to the stars once more

[hard sigil]

how does that connect at all to the echo of navigation being around

and that's like. what we're doing anyway

[slim elk]

Right there in the name 😝
A navigator to help chart the stars

And no.. we are not.
We are back to "humanity is doomed"

Unless we bind the nine

[hard sigil]

we're currently in the middle of proving that our destiny is not defined by anything but ourselves, and that it lay outside of the sol system

by literally proving that (for all intents and purposes) the minds of the celestial objects themselves cannot choose that for us

[blazing wasp]

guardians defying fate is practically a troupe at this point

[slim elk]

Already known it from year 1
"Guardians make their own fate"

[blazing wasp]

Light is, after all, a supporter of chaos

[slim elk]

Which I find subverting the Taken Kings throne and the sword logic itself a far more compelling tale

[blazing wasp]

a prerequisite to free will is chaos

[slim elk]

Not "bad guys suddenly pull out the anti paracausal death star"

[hard sigil]

idk I just find it to be kind of a step back into told stories for the sake of nostalgia

[slim elk]

Same thing applies to us having to prove "once again" we have control over Destiny by killing the bad guys of the week in an unending status quo

[hard sigil]

it's an issue I have with heresy and the echo of navigation in general really

it's just retreading old ground for the sake of "hey guys remember oryx?"

[slim elk]

Aye
The self contained loop
But if it was the key to us leaving Sol...

[hard sigil]

that would just leave too many threads open

[slim elk]

That's called sequel hooks

[hard sigil]

id rather have the nine get a narrative before we move on to something completely new

[river surge]

and Echo of Command hit Nessus

and many other echoes hit other systems

[hard sigil]

if anything the plot threads leading to a civilian revolt makes for a more compelling reason for us to leave than just going with Oryx for no reason

[slim elk]

Civilian revolt would be interesting....
If we hadn't seen what Bungie would do with such a thing already

Season of the Splicer had the full coup attempt handled completely offscreen

That was back when they had lot more resources and focused plot

[hard sigil]

at the end of the fate saga I predict it will become obvious that power attracts powerful forces to challenge it, and so as long as the traveller and guardians exist in the sol system humanity will never be safe, leading to us leaving in voluntary exile

[slim elk]

Put it this way
Bungies had an entire year to showcase all the anomalies happening to Earth.

Nothing ingame

Splicer had the whole tower continously be altered over the season as the Endless Night got worse

[blazing wasp]

uh oh

its happening again

[hard sigil]

I don't think it's the narrative team to blame for that

[slim elk]

Yep
It's the lack of resources

And we saw what Bungie was willing to do with a similar plot to civilian revolt back in Splicer with a lot more resources

Lakshmi killed offscreen in a radio message

[hard sigil]

this one holds a lot more narrative weight and isn't a manipulation of Savathûn

and I very much hope it actually leads somewhere

[ember storm]

if praedyth ever becomes relevant again, just remember

he's always been bad to the bone

[slim girder]

Jana 14 would've loved this. No blood just free bones

[ember storm]

[fresh zephyr]

I've been so out of the lore for a while but Renegades has got me into the nine story line

[river surge]

He is gone

that boy is goneeee

[ember storm]

nah you just havent looked hard enouh

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-running-past-gif-3044631603201692058

what was that

[river surge]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-mad-skeleton-gif-10886506202898815019

[river surge]

We are going to bind Clovis to Jupiter

(Worst case scenario that could ever happend inside Destiny canon ever in lore)

[slim girder]

Wrong.
We are going to put him into an engram and let Archie play with him like a ball for eternity.

[river surge]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-sukuna-absolute-cinema-peak-cinema-gif-8953307231977611719

[river surge]

We are seriously cooking this much lately

Holy fuck if Bungie were truly evil and we would actually make our enemies suffer by simply torturing them with the funniest shits ever

[river surge]

Canonically speaking

Can we marry

[trim grotto]

Sure. There's nothing stopping anyone from having a relationship, it's just... Y'know. You're marrying an active soldier frequently away from the City who may never come back on any given day, and is also immortal and so will outlive you if they don't die in battle.

Not exactly, ah
An ideal catch for some people

[slim girder]

This is why guardians often become couples. Quite a fair few in the lore

Though I'm not ready for the day we lose Zavala or Osiris to old age

[river surge]

Can my Guardian marry Ikora for example 👀

Ok thats too far

I was just joking

[slim girder]

She'd probably "joke" about throwing you off the wall

[river surge]

[river surge]

Also any lore entries of why she hasnt married yet?

Or does she feel more free alone?

Ikora tbh feel like a hard one to actually impress

[slim girder]

She's not really the type to pursue that kind of thing.
Too serious and involved in being a warlock if that makes sense.

She's always been a lone guardian.
That's kinda why she's gotten as powerful as she is now. Trained only by Osiris and has earned her place as one of the most powerful guardians in existence

[river surge]

She is so Gojo and Sukuna like

I can 100% understand her character better now

With that amount of similarities

[slim girder]

One of the only people even Lord
Shaxx gets nervous around considering she apparently did something so bad to him in the crucible he still has trouble sitting

She was considered monstrous in the crucible

[river surge]

She 100% shares similarities with Sukuna

I can 100% make a full character analysis on her and be almost the same as Sukuna

So the strong ones are always alone

And meant to be "weapons" for the others

I feel bad for her now

[slim girder]

She's no weapon for others.

If someone tried to use her like that she'd definitely be throwing a nova bomb at them

[trim grotto]

Sort of, yes. You'd want to read the two halves of the Hidden journals from the WQ CE.

D'you have 'em on hand, Retro? I'm on my mobile and it's a bit more awkward

[slim girder]

I do not sadly as I'm also on mobile rn.

[trim grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UDF2gZFAVhn6vXjVdgWXO5P1Fdb6VFSMRTyx88Im0es/edit?usp=drivesdk
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-hidden-dossier

I did it anyway haha

The Google doc is part 1

[trim grotto]

I'm sitting in front of the air con

My computer purple screened earlier haha

[slim girder]

I had no wifi for half the day because of the heat over here in SA

[trim grotto]

I'll be going to work tomorrow for a 44 degree day here in Vic
How's it gonna be there

117 Fahrenheit for any lurkers curious

[slim girder]

I have work as well. 6 hours next to an industrial dishwasher with no AC and it'll be 42°C

[trim grotto]

Oh delightful

[slim girder]

And after I shall be drinking my weight in Powerade to make up for lost fluids

We just had the tour down under here as well. It's been a very chaotic and hot couple of days

[river surge]

Not in that way

[river surge]

Ty

[jagged badge]

Master Chief number

[sonic sun]

it might be that she's immortal and she's already watched grief over a lost love tear her friend to pieces

[dim minnow]

I think they implied she was in a relationship with Elsie in a previous timeline

though Ikora does not strike me as the type to really be in any relationship

[fluid peak]

She's married to her job

[ember storm]

Well that was in a dark future innit

Things were different

[fluid peak]

The evil timeline is where ikora is in a relationship with a woman??? Concerning...

[ember storm]

Zavala also grew a beard

Dark times indeed

[fluid peak]

Now that's some nightmare stuff

To go back to ikora I think she has some degree of separation from most guardians, let alone people

[ember storm]

I imagine a dark future would shake things up for her enough to consider it though

Red war was a major shift for her

[fluid peak]

The only ones who know her even decently well are members of the hidden and us, and bigshots on the vanguard

[fluid peak]

Naturally

A world where the thing she had total faith in is shattered? She lost eris, who she cares about a lot

[ember storm]

Eating a nice juicy smash burg

Imagine living in the dark future and not getting to do that

I would turn myself to an exo and die like drifter

[fluid peak]

I mean yeah actually thinking about it she would've had the triple whammy of red war > cayde dying > Eris going full evil hive god

[fluid peak]

Didn't the drifter not even get to be an exo? He just died

[ember storm]

Do you think if Elsie met FS Cayde she’d have to stomach the fact that every single time she failed and watched everyone around her die, the first thing she heard at the start of every loop was Cayde’s shitty inauguration speech

[fluid peak]

There's no way she didn't at least see FS cayde right

[ember storm]

ngl I only read through them all once

[ember storm]

She probably just didn’t show up until excision

[fluid peak]

He's on Comms for several vanguard ops, and he was present for the final battle she was as well

[ember storm]

Cayde didn’t even know Saint was alive until then

Not much time for small talk

[fluid peak]

'holy shit ana is that cayde???'

[ember storm]

“Oh yeah I never got to introduce-“
“I fucking hate this guy”

[fluid peak]

I wonder if the vanguard suppressed any rumours of cayde's return given how very temporary it was

He was back for like? A month?

[ember storm]

Wasn’t the tower bust only put up after

Would it really be better to publicly reveal “yes he came back but we never told you, anyway here’s a memorial 6 years after his death”

[fluid peak]

Imagine the rumours about crow being made vanguard lol

[sonic sun]

she was? where?

[fluid peak]

she's in the cutscene

when zavala says ab humanity as one of the factions present

[sonic sun]

I completely missed one of my favourites 💀

[river surge]

Guardian

[ember storm]

Ngl them including Nimbus and not Ikora would’ve been incredibly funny

[river surge]

Saint with that russian accent

We got Cayde back for a moment

We got Saint back

When Clovis?

[sonic sun]

Clovis's big ass head attached to a brig

[frigid sparrow]

Attached to? His head will BE the brig

[queen swallow]

Why not just make a bigger exo?

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/modok-smile-quantumania-face-punch-gif-1277285603695392084

[hallow horizon]

what abomination is this

[dapper kayak]

modok in the newest ant man movie

yes, the movie is shit

[queen swallow]

That is also just what Modok looks like tbf

[dapper kayak]

true

but doesnt discount from quantumania's shittiness

[trim grotto]

I'm not usually a fan of reworking an entire character for a new version of a franchise, but

I think MODOK probably could have done with being... Not a giant head for live action.

[gray lagoon]

is it possible that guardians do age just when they respawn they respawn at the age they were originally revived at

i mean technically the storyline of our guardian is only 11 years long so

[trim grotto]

Nothing suggests as much. Zavala started feeling his age only after he lost Targe, on the other hand.

I can't explicitly rule it out, so I'd say it is possible, but there's no supporting evidence, either.

[gray lagoon]

guardians die too much and theres nothing in lore about it

[trim grotto]

Exactly. There's nothing in the lore supporting the theory.
Meanwhile, we have a reference to someone feeling themselves age explicitly and specifically after becoming Lightless. The contrast is, in effect, evidence against the idea.

[ember storm]

It’d be better if he was completely CGI abomination and not just like, real life actor face superimposed on the body

MODOK is supposed to be a disgusting freak of nature but you gotta go the extra mile

Not uncanny human like just make him an actual freak

[ancient drum]

https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/1qllpxa/the_truth_behind_the_red_war_lawsuit_bungie_vs/

So the tl;dr is that almost every single bloody news item about this saga was incorrect, despite court documents existing in the public eye, detailing everything you could want to know about it. The Game Post made stupid shit up about Bungie having evidence refused in court, and that a settlement had occurred in the case, countless other "journalists" at multiple major gaming news websites went on to cite The Game Post for their nonsense, and everyone ended up misinformed. I hope the above helps you understand the reality of the case.

[queen swallow]

Yippee

[river surge]

Time dilation affects Guardians

We already pointed that out with Drifter

The moment he went too close to the Singularity he started aging cause of the time dilation

Any phenomenon regarding time can indeed affect guardians and their lifespan

No wonder why The Nine could theoretically do such things to us (Eclipse)

[queen swallow]

That's not Destiny

[modern lotus]

it isnt?

[queen swallow]

No...

[modern lotus]

pretty sure thats destiny

[queen swallow]

There's literally a roblox logo in the corner

[modern lotus]

its a new addition from bungo

[queen swallow]

I'm turning the version of you I have in my head into a marketable plushy and it's selling poorly

[modern lotus]

but im white

[trim grotto]

True, I probably should have brought that up. Personally, it feels like an exception to a rule, though.

[river surge]

Mhm

"When u mess with time, it tends to mess back"

[slim girder]

We went into the vault of glass. Think it's safe to say when time is involved no one is safe

Erased from existence without even a memory, lost in the dark corners of time never to be found, trapped in an infinite loop unable to escape even when you die, flying too close to a black hole and aging, being flung through a wormhole just because you picked up a telephone with no cable.

Moral of the story please leave time alone for travelers sake

Only good thing we ever did with it was rescue Saint 14

[quaint hinge]

Do we know where the tower and the last city actually are located on earth?

[dim minnow]

somewhere around South America

[quaint hinge]

Curiously how did we come to that? Is it mentioned in a lore card or?

[dim minnow]

there is a lore tab regarding how the guy who founded Veist once watched a man die from a snake bite

with said snake being native to a specific area

anything else I think was speculation based on other factors

[quaint hinge]

I see

[dim minnow]

we know the Panama Ravine was a neccessary landmark to pass through in order to reach the city

so there's also that

[quaint hinge]

Because of Hawthorne's mom right?

[dim minnow]

Amanda's mom

[quaint hinge]

Right right lol somehow got them mixed up haha

[dim minnow]

kinda hard to

Here's Hawthorne

[quaint hinge]

It wasnt their looks its because theyre both non guardians

[dim minnow]

and here's Amanda

[quaint hinge]

On a bit of a nicher one... do we know where in the cosmodrome wall site 618(crucible map) is?

[dim minnow]

like geographical?

we know the Cosmodrome is based on a real place

Baikonur

[quaint hinge]

yea i would guess acrossed from the playable area but thats solely based on the mountain assumedly being fellwinter peak...

[dim minnow]

Sector 618 appears to be just inside the wall somewhere

[trim grotto]

Ooh boy are you in for a treat

Wait right there

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wocCs25nbFuIIhJhtnvSYDTOyDOsl8dMXFVU3GTL_bU/edit?usp=drivesdk

All of this combined, plus a couple of new references, makes it less of a theory and more of a foregone conclusion.

God it's hot my house has no insulation
@slim girder help

[slim girder]

I got off work an hour early today because no one came to the hotel lol.
I have my AC cranked rn

[trim grotto]

🫠

[quaint hinge]

this is a wild.... rabbit hole... all this to say its somewhere in south america is crazy lol

[slim girder]

Cadena in SA reached 50°C yesterday apparently

[trim grotto]

Haha yeah

[quaint hinge]

i wanna say its safe to rule out Brasil though since we have the Brazilian dead zone and Brasilia where the cryptarch had hunters runing missions to retrieve engrams from but thats all i can say there 🤷‍♂️

[trim grotto]

You've also got the Andes to consider

[quaint hinge]

are the Andes mountains?

[trim grotto]

Spanning basically the entire west coast, yeah

[quaint hinge]

my honest guess is Peru

[quaint hinge]

i was gonna say we could be on the border of Peru and Brazil but with the tower in D1 being the Northern Tower, that would put us south of the mountain...

[slim girder]

With the nine shenanigans happening rn parts of this entire mountain range have turned to copper.

This is the Andes

[slow berry]

Theree a big doc that explains the whole thing

[trim grotto]

Thanks Lith

[river surge]

Chile

In that area

Some sort

[quaint hinge]

ironically, thats where i was sitting too

[quaint hinge]

based off what i just said here

[slow berry]

my personal pet theory is that it's actually underground

and the cave just looks like that

[trim grotto]

It is worth noting that Destiny is set in a... Close approximation of Earth, too. Slightly different histories. And the Collapse and general time has altered the landscape.

Hawkesbury, as Retro and I can tell you, very certainly isn't a sea in the current real day, for example. But it is now in game.

[quaint hinge]

yea i wish we got an earth map showing how the contenants were changed with the collapse

[trim grotto]

That's where a lot of people point to Seraph Station's view from orbit, but that's a flawed reference when taken in a vacuum.

[river surge]

Many things changed now with III death

I can officialy expect the continents to unite

[trim grotto]

You can see glimpses of Earth from Seraph Station, but it's functionally nonsense compared to actual Earth. People used this as a method to pinpoint the exact location of the Last City after image matching actual Andes mountains, which does support the theory, but the map at large is a mix match of random map imagery and is... It's porridge.

[quaint hinge]

ahhh i figured thatd be somewhat the case lol

[trim grotto]

I personally dismiss it entirely. It's either alt-earth due to alt-history or collapse landscape shifting, or it's noncanon nonsense.

[dim minnow]

I like to think that Earth as seen from space is fucked up because of the Collapse

[trim grotto]

Which is possible

[river surge]

Bungie specifically didnt want to give us dates, or anything like that

Cause that would fuck the lore badly

[dim minnow]

more like it would force them to adhere to a strict timeline

[river surge]

Or retcon many things

[slim girder]

Earth is an extremely different place now even before the nine issues. The collapse and 1000+ years does that naturally

Though i find it funny Lodi gets mad that no one put a date on the collapse

[river surge]

They did that on purpose

[trim grotto]

Me when the manmade war god robot didn't come with a clock

[quaint hinge]

speaking fuckery with locations, something i found weird is that the "Eastern Flood Zone" is said as in Europe but the sign here on the wall in the Rusted lands crucible map is the same as the one on the cosmodrome wall....

[trim grotto]

Russian bureau of aeronautics if I recall rightly

[quaint hinge]

yea why would that be on a random building in europe?

[slim girder]

How dare those fleeing civilians scared for their lives not jot down the date they were very likely about to be brutally killed by an unknowable entity of darkness

[trim grotto]

The size of the EDZ is not clearly laid out, nor are map boundaries as we know them today. America became the... North American Empire, for example.

[slim girder]

Fs for Canada

[trim grotto]

We do know, however, that the EDZ patrol space is in Switzerland.

[river surge]

Rip Canada, Mexico

[slim girder]

Australia at least in the lore seems to be weirdly untouched with a group of warlocks vowing to protect its heritage

[trim grotto]

I know Eruke had a theory about the EFZ

I'll dig it up later

[quaint hinge]

yea i get that, but why would this building be there... i mean id find it far more likely to be in Easter Kazakhstan than in Europe*

[trim grotto]

Probably part of a hugely widespread influence. The RBoA had enough influence to host the BrayTech funded Exodus Program, colony ships to take Humanity - of any nation - to the stars.

In other words, I expect their influence wasn't restricted to the borders of their nation.

[river surge]

I want to know what happend to Japan

[quaint hinge]

yea thats a fair point i suppose

[slim girder]

The first people to meet the traveler were part of a joint expedition as well of members from each nation

[dim minnow]

Witness probably Earthquake spammed it

[river surge]

Nezarec

It was Nezarec leading the attack

[trim grotto]

Nezzlewreck

[dim minnow]

Witness was present during the Collapse

[river surge]

No it wasnt

It was outside the galaxy

[slim girder]

It was there along with the rest of the fleet. Nezarec was just the spearhead of it

But after finding out the traveler was dormant it went to go sleep outside of the galaxy until it woke up

[river surge]

I always thought the Witness simply didnt come to the Collapse

I mean cmon

If The Witness was there it wouldve finished us

Nezarec was nutcrack

[dim minnow]

they never really clearly described what happened at the end of the Collapse

[quaint hinge]

if the witness had been there... how did savathun live her betrayel? i mean i feel like she wouldve been killed right after

[dim minnow]

Savathun pulled some trick that was partly the reason the Traveler was able to push the "Darkness" back

[river surge]

Ikr

[slim girder]

All we know is VERY few people survived. Even if they survived the initial collapse having nothing would've also been enough to kill most through cold, starvations, etc

[river surge]

It dosent really makes sense for The Witness to be there otheriwse WE wouldve been done

[trim grotto]

Because she didn't confront them directly without a plan. Whatever she did, she filled the Collapse with misdirection, and even a planet wide mass ritual on Earth.

That's a fun one.

It's not like it was incapable of finishing us at any point later, either. It was just rendered... Pointless. It couldn't do the one thing it created itself to do - bring the Final Shape.

I think the Witness sort of... Shut down, so to speak.

[slim girder]

The witness does not care about killing us. It could yes but it can't see the reasoning of it

[river surge]

My headcanon is that Nezarec simply had a small fleet with the Veil

[slim girder]

It's not a being that thinks that way

[river surge]

That was sent by The Witness

And well Nezarec failed

[trim grotto]

Unlike myself, who is not a being that things

[slim girder]

The witness is emotion personified and only has one objective

[river surge]

Althought something we cant deny, The Witness did INFACT wanted to torture us

[slim girder]

Oh yeah because anything the traveler touches is in its eyes a mockery of its logic

[trim grotto]

Well, sure, but then it could have approached us itself and killed us anyway... Unless it felt like there was no point because its entire purpose was rendered moot.

Only once possibility flourished anew did it and the fleet reactivate.

[quaint hinge]

how did Nezarec originally die by the way? wasnt it by savathun during the collapse?

[river surge]

Killed by Savathun

Betrayed basically

Caused his ship to collapse on the Moon

And that was it

[slim girder]

I think it's also worth noting humans themselves weren't touched by the traveler if that makes sense. But it def made sure anything we built through its blessing was reduced to ash

It's like killing a hornets nest. You're not after the hornets you just don't like the hive they built

[river surge]

If Rhulk went instead of Nezarec The Final Shape wouldve happend

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/fundament-shell

Here's a fun one on the topic of the Collapse and Savathun

[river surge]

And thats a fact

[trim grotto]

Al Eck Ruk Nam, Shu Nam Eck Ur
I'm on the Moon, it's made of cheese

[river surge]

-Lord Shaxx

[slim girder]

Ok savathun

[river surge]

Savathun The Ragebait Queen

[hazy veldt]

what did they do to my lubraes ruin😭 😭

"hey here's the oldest weapon guardian ever held lets mangle it"

[river surge]

Eh I believe we held something even older

Or maybe not

It is indeed the oldest

However lets not forget that some weapons are made from the pyramid arhitecture which are older than everything we know

Material wise, older

[slow berry]

do we count stuff made out of traveler

like would microcosm count

or neo-hawkmoon

[dapper kayak]

nah

i wouldnt say so

also, isn't enigma glaive made of pyramid stuff

[river surge]

Its 50% 50%

The glaive itself is authentic

To Rhulk after it was repaired by The Witness

It is the oldest weapon in the lore

That was basically preserved to present

However theres no weapon older than that

But if we include the weapons made out of the material of the pyramids (precursors) we can say that we wield weapons far older than that (only if you count it)

I am still heavily curious to understand what type of material did the precursors use to make their vessels

Cause we know its a black smooth like obsidian rock, that has paracausality traits and can literally deflect any attack

[trim grotto]

As far as I can tell, they had the Traveler's blessing for longer than anyone. So it's very possibly something nobody else has ever used.

[river surge]

Mhm

But still its wierd how the constructed vessels made out of "darkness" when they had the light

[river surge]

Also Mael, outside the damage done by The Traveler and Mara Sov, was there any lore entry suggesting that a pyramid vessel got damaged or somehow destroyed?

[trim grotto]

Well, they also then had the Veil for billions of years, too.

[river surge]

Forgot abt that

[trim grotto]

There's the Sunken Pyramid on the Throne World, I suppose.

[river surge]

Oh yeah Rhulks pyramid

Savathun more than likely had knowledge how to damage them

She even shut down Nezarec pyramid and crashed it on the moon

[slow berry]

and yet its a legendary glaive with dogwater perks

they really didn't know how to balance shit back in destiny -133213

[river surge]

So freaking true

A glaive that was used to slaughter civilisations

Turned into a legendary glaive with no purpose

-Bungie

[quaint hinge]

do we know if Josef(Luna's owner) is still actually alive?

[dim minnow]

last we heard, I think he got a War Beast puppy

[quaint hinge]

two,but yes so id presume hes still alive then, do we know when Luna was killed? like before D1, after D1 but before D2...

[hard sigil]

2 puppies

but yeah

[hard sigil]

some time inbetween D1 and 2

[quaint hinge]

I also love this head cannon of whenever Josef casts his golden gun it howls...

I see

[hard sigil]

just based on the fact it's forsaken era and in a time where guardians are active on the moon

[quaint hinge]

Hmmm so nothing outright says she didnt die before D1 but its suggested its between games

[hard sigil]

make sure you go pay a visit to Luna's grave now

[hard sigil]

we just don't really like. know. we've got two lore entries to base it off

[quaint hinge]

Mmmmn gotcha, i hope we learn more about Josef

Can only imagine what he would do to Xivu-Arath

[quaint hinge]

Especially since cases of supers being augmented have occurred more than once or twice....

[trim grotto]

I'm enjoying the idea of it being a comedically small howl

ᴬʷᵒᵒ

[quaint hinge]

I love the idea of it being an Echoing Howl, rippling through the caves of the moon sending Shivers down the Hives spines...

"Oh fuck its John Wi... i mean Josef, RUN"

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/flea-fleas-howl-group-howl-awoo-gif-16905313010922198754

[quaint hinge]

I wish we know more though like what they looked like, what subclasses he can use and such

Id be perfectly happy if he can only use golden gun but his unending rampages on the moon have made him perfect it beyond anyone else in history....

[trim grotto]

Shin'd get jealous

[quaint hinge]

Thats a shin problem lol, not like he would kill josef... Josef only kills hive lol

[trim grotto]

And enemy Crucible teams

[quaint hinge]

this is true... but we dont even actually know if Shin is still alive or dead though 🤷‍♂️

[trim grotto]

Nothing suggests he's died, and it hasn't been that long since he was last active.

[quaint hinge]

oh have we learned more since the shadows of yor stuff?

[trim grotto]

Not terribly much, but he essentially retired. Alive until proven dead, to paraphrase the old legal adage.

[quaint hinge]

ahhhh doubt he would do much then, but yea id love more Josef stuff.... hopefully more like before he got Luna's Howl or got it repaired... whichever

[slim elk]

Just be rather awkward for Shin to show up and say he's the founder of the Dredgens

[quaint hinge]

lol

[slim girder]

Flea juggle can burn in a fire

[slim girder]

People think he might make a return considering Dredgen Bael even if he calls it continuity is def gonna be seen as him mocking Shins Dredgen Vale name

[quaint hinge]

i mean that i could see

[slim elk]

Technically Shins whole objective has been accomplished
Darkness use is now accepted among Guardians

(Even the Praxics are getting a harsh dose of reality)

[quaint hinge]

meanwhile im just over here gushing about a man and his.... former dog...

[dim minnow]

watch as Shin Malphur and his gang pull to to Bael only to get iced

[quaint hinge]

that would imply Dredgen Yor was a joke....

[trim grotto]

To be fair, he did blast Yor away mid-monologue.

[quaint hinge]

that... is fair lol

[dim minnow]

yeah, it wasn't even an actual duel

hell, Callum also let Shin kill him

because he was in on his plan

[trim grotto]

You sly dog, you shot me monologueing

[slim girder]

Shin ain't above honour. He'd kick you below the belt if he could to win a fist fight.

[quaint hinge]

i mean... i wouldve done the same honestly... bro's iced so many guardians.... both innocent and not, id shoot him too if he was monologuing

[slim girder]

He also 3 taps with a golden gun for good measure

A GOLDEN GUN

[quaint hinge]

i mean.... atleast he knows you aint fucking getting back up lol

can guardians be killed during supers canonically?

ive never actually checked this lol

[dim minnow]

possibly, but you would need a LOT of firepower

like, when Saladin was in his solar super, any shots the Cabal were shooting at him disintegrated before they even touched him

[quaint hinge]

ahhh.... but Saladin and Zavala are some of the stronger gaurdians known to be fair

[slim elk]

Shaxx really enjoys it when you shut down a super

So yes.

[quaint hinge]

he REALLY does...

its unsettling honestly how much he enjoys it

[slim elk]

The Crucible itself would be utterly horrifying if not for us respawning

It's the biggest indicator of how much Ghaul was right

[quaint hinge]

Yea fair lol its also kinda weird that its canon... that means all our deaths in the crucible are cannon lmao

[slim girder]

Cayde got yoinked out of his super during his golden gun

[quaint hinge]

I thought i remembered that lol

I will say though its a fucking impressive feat that even ghostless shin had enough light to golden gun triple tap yor...

[slim girder]

The singes are still around according to reports from the shadows who followed Yors trail after his death

[slim elk]

Shins a headache inducer cause he breaks a lot of accepted rules

[slim girder]

He is very much a lore wild card

He's like Goku of destiny

[trim grotto]

If only someone here has written a successful and well referenced post about Shin here 😔

[quaint hinge]

I would love to see that headcanon Josef with the howling golden gun mentioned earlier meeting shin... would be an interesting conversation lol

[ember storm]

would jason voorhees be eligible for rez

[slim girder]

Some people think that person dressed as an awoken corsair in the cantina either knows Shin or IS Shin

[quaint hinge]

Human jason before death yes... friday the 13th jason no as he is a spirit haunting not a human anymore

[slim girder]

The one calling Bael a pretender

[ember storm]

ok followup

would he still look like jason

[quaint hinge]

He would look how he looked before he drowned...

[dim minnow]

they're most likely a mamber of Shin's true Shadows

[slim elk]

Only the Hive appear to have apperance changes upon being Risen..
And that's effectively an allergic reaction

[ember storm]

it's been a while but wasn't it that he didn't actually die as a kid

he only actually dies in the 2nd movie (since his mom is the killer in the 1st) and then becomes a zombie?

[slim girder]

That was another thought. That one of the OG shadows was warning us

[ember storm]

like he was just an actual guy for a while

[quaint hinge]

Im gonna be honest... i dont follow lore that heavy but i believe the original lore was that he drowned

[trim grotto]

Mamber

[ember storm]

his physical appearance had nothing to do with being a zombie

[ember storm]

that was the legal conclusion which gave his mom justification for killing

but he was just like living in a shack for a while

[slim elk]

Best not to mix up horror movie franchises that don't even follow their own rules lol

[quaint hinge]

🤷‍♂️

[ember storm]

so like

[slim elk]

Jason even after the third film was dead
Then Tommy dug up his corpse and impaled it.. causing a lightning strike that got him back up

[ember storm]

would ghost healing change his face

or would that theoretically still be his prime form

[dim minnow]

I still remember your Domino's Ghaul mistake

[quaint hinge]

Idk if scars are kept with rising....

[dim minnow]

wasn't even scars though, mf was born fugly

[quaint hinge]

Burns still leave scars 🤷‍♂️ but thats semantics and the focus is if raising a guardian would fix and malformations...

[ember storm]

part of the cause was a disease

so eh

[quaint hinge]

Wait wait... what happens if someone had amputation while they were alive are they raised without those limbs too?

[slim elk]

Depends on the species

Exos get easy replacements

[quaint hinge]

Exos are mostly inorganic so thats almost a given but do we have a confirm on human and awoken?

[ember storm]

actually i don't even know how that'd work

like when Cayde got his arm shot off in Red War, when the traveler got freed could Sundance just heal it back on

or did he do a celebratory jump off the tower for a clean rez

[trim grotto]

I doubt it, given that we've got no example of it despite millions of Guardians and thousand(s) of years.
Cayde's arm came back after the Red War, though admittedly that's an outlier example.

[slim elk]

Closest example to this talk is Felwinters ghost being unable to repair his vocals, but a clean death and he was good as new

[trim grotto]

After all, if initial resurrection can be made from ash, what's a missing limb or two?

[ember storm]

what if you have only the arm on initial rez

what if two ghosts find two seperate parts of the same corpse and both try to rez

[slim elk]

So I presume one simple fact

[ember storm]

what if a ghost sits inside the rib cage of their new lightbearer as a skeleton

[slim elk]

Arbitrary

[ember storm]

do they get a new house

[dim minnow]

Felspring could have fixed the brain damage he recieved, but it would have taken so long that it would just be more convenient to bite a 9mm

[slim elk]

Yeah. Just doesn't make any sense when you think about it lol

Unless Ghosts are really specced into necromancy and hacking

Beyond highly specific scenarios that the writers haven't thought of (and sometimes contradict)

There's scenes that should be more focused on but are not depicted

Like the time Savathun fired us out of a cannon

[ember storm]

hurh

when did that happen

[dim minnow]

probably referring to the end of the WQ intro

[ember storm]

oh i never imagined it to be a canon

i like to think she just picked us up by the ankle and tossed us out the rupture

[slim elk]

There's a bunch of skid marks around us in that scene lol

[ember storm]

isnt it sand

fell from a high place

[slim elk]

Much more serious is us meeting in a rendezvous with Mithrax

Clear lore event and logically would have told us what was going on in Zero Hour

[quaint hinge]

Does the Magnificent Howl perk actually have a sound que of a Howl?

[dim minnow]

does it make that sound ingame?

[quaint hinge]

Yea, i cant remember if it does

[dim minnow]

the Chaperone whip-crack appeared in a cutscene, therefore it is reasonable to assume tat any sfx made by a weapon ingame is canon

[quaint hinge]

Yea but i dont remember if the perk actually made a howl sound when procing...

[slow berry]

You're thinking of Hawkmoon, I think

Magnificent Howl is the baby version of the Paracausal Bullets perk

[slim girder]

That better be a hawaiian

[quaint hinge]

Cool my brain was gaslighting me lol

[river surge]

What if a Ghost somehow revives another Guardian than his/hers Guardian

[ember storm]

we're led to believe that's just not a thing that can happen

ghost very regretfully says he can't do anything while cayde dies on the floor in forsaken

[river surge]

"I cant do anything"

seriously

I truly believe you Ghost

K but now seriously

canonically speaking

if The Traveler kept on creating Ghosts

death wouldve become irrelevant

[ember storm]

Bael would probably beg to differ

[river surge]

I have always thinkd about

How The Traveler couldve created the Ghosts but then I realised she gets weakened by doing that + it wouldnt fit at all

[ember storm]

gasp

it is time

i can use

VISUAL AID

https://tenor.com/view/starro-the-suicide-squad-suicide-squad-spores-gif-24191078

it went like this

[river surge]

But The Traveler is the Light itself

Fuck no

She is just a conduit

[ember storm]

eh it's more like

she's the ultimate source of it

[river surge]

What if tomorrow

A BIGGER TRAVELER APPEARS

[ember storm]

why does the big traveler not simply eat the smaller one

[river surge]

Cause they are friends

[ember storm]

prove it

[river surge]

Waity

Why is it taking so long bruh

Ok bro I give up

the bigger one can eat the smaller one

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/kratoss-kratos-banana-gif-8800993167778966245

[jagged badge]

[ember storm]

[river surge]

So The Traveler is made out of electroweak matter

Then what is The Veil made out of

Dark matter?

[slow berry]

same thing, realistically

the traveler is also made out of neutronium and lead fwiw

[river surge]

Lead is common

While neutronium and electroweak cant be even found

Also I 100% believe The Veil is made out of dark matter

Theres no way

[queen swallow]

What's your reasoning?

Because if you're going off of "Darkness = Dark matter" Edge of Fate disproved that

[river surge]

Dark matter IS different than the one from EoF tho

[queen swallow]

I really don't think it is

Even in the dev streams leading up to Edge of Fate they were explaining that dark matter =/= Darkness

[river surge]

Meh so they didnt use irl stuff

[queen swallow]

We're in a sci-fi

[river surge]

Although dark matter is still a theory

[river surge]

Mhm

[trim grotto]

Dark Matter is typically the realm of the Nine, as per Dust.

[slow berry]

well, no

we know dark matter is a thing that exists

[dim minnow]

Worth noting the Veil was once part of the Traveler

[slow berry]

there a theories as to what dark matter is

but dark matter is an observable, quantifiable phenomenon

[dim minnow]

Though the Traveler may have taken the form it took after being separated from the Veil

[slow berry]

also the veil couldn't be dark matter bc we can like

see and touch it

as opposed to the whole dark thing about dark matter being that we can only know its there because we know mathematically there has to be something

[dim minnow]

Maybe the Veil is more organic

[hidden pebble]

what is gambit actually about?

i know of the nine somewhat endorsing drifter

but he doesn’t even know what happens to banked motes

[slim elk]

Test run to utilizing darkness initially

Nowadays it's a lure to wipe out local hostiles

[frigid sparrow]

Fueling the haul for purposes beyond our reasoning

Utilizing motes of darkness that would be used to power the haul's energy, presumably through the taken energies that are commonly associated with it

[dim minnow]

To Drifter, it was part of a scheme to survive the next Collapse.
To the Nine, it was to empower the Haul so it could briefly revive III at the end of EoF.
To Shin Malphur, it was an experiment to see if Guardians can safely harness Darkness and to lure out those who are corrupted by it.

For Drifter, that plan never came to pass thanks to a shining Moonlight.
For the Nine, it worked out in their favor in a way.
For Shin, it was an astounding success in ways we could never imagine.

[slow berry]

@jagged badge do you wanna see a dr. house edit

or alternatively remove it

[jagged badge]

Huh

[blazing wasp]

someone posted a rather strange Dr house edit here

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah I deleted it, the huh was more of a “wtf” huh

[blazing wasp]

ah

[hazy veldt]

I don’t wanna be hard on fate saga but I don’t think narrative team is ever gonna outdo light and dark

and it’s not a pitch towards fate saga Ik it’s less than 2 years old but still

my point is that light and dark lore was too good

[dapper kayak]

final shape was such a goated ending too

[frigid sparrow]

They already are

[slim girder]

The perks about this new Saga is at least the direction is clear from the start.
Iirc D1 didn't even know where it was really headed until TTK

Vanilla D1 was more like bungie trying to establish the world and then Y2 would be where that Saga really began.

[slow berry]

part of that was also d1 being reworked a few times pretty close to release

there's a lot of reasons to believe up until the taken king they were mostly just finding uses for removed content, including that the little techno-thingie cage in oryx's throne room that clashes with the rest of the environment as is the only piece of tech in the dreadnaught because it was rasputin's cage

[slim girder]

Exactly.
I remember all the lore about that piece of architecture lol.
Just a remnant of what D1s story was going to be

[wet dagger]

ive been wanting to catch up with the story ever since i started to play again.
at what point in the pins does episode echoes start?
i think i remember facing these choral vex just before i stopped playing.

[trim grotto]

The Episodes occur immediately after The Final Shape, but Dova hasn't done a writeup for TFS and post yet. We can certainly give you a rundown, though.

First, however, a very important thing must be done

me make cuppa tea

[dim minnow]

I know, I really gotta get started

[wet dagger]

if you don't mind, the conductor just being there in edge of fate just felt weird.

also here 🫖 🙂

attempting to get the correct vid from byf turned into me finding out how horrific Three's death really was.

[dim minnow]

she was actually on Kepler for like a month before we got there

[wet dagger]

yeah thats the one thing i was able to find.

[hard sigil]

Maya got her hands on a lot of power very quickly, but that tracks considering the echo of control being probably the most powerful of the three that were created

[slim girder]

Maya was already trying to enact the plan she's already had but with the echo appearing in the network it was the thing that in her eyes coud complete the task she was aiming for

[dim minnow]

she just so happened to be the one who got to it first

[slim girder]

And without it no way maya was getting anywhere but now as she's gloated many times it doesn't matter if someone says no becasue now she can just control them

"if you don't understand, i have the tools to make you"

"I will break you down into more complaint elements"

[dim minnow]

at least until we just said no

[slim girder]

Currently though it doesn't seem like she's even able to control her own vex either given tharsis reformation existing. The vex she makes follow her willingly but they can def just say no as well

[trim grotto]

alright whatt'd i miss

[wet dagger]

tharsis just seems to be other vex, unless im missing something but they dont look like the ones on keplar.

[slim girder]

They are vex that broke away from Maya

This is confirmed because Mayas vex possess individuality

Regular Vex aren't like that

Tharsis reformation vex like clothes, gambling and crime

[wet dagger]

ah ok.
this is what i miss when i think the game is getting boring, really good story

[trim grotto]

Sol Collective, Sol Divisive, Nessian Schism, Tharsis Reformation

Regular Vex, Regular Vex but edgy, Maya's fancy new age Vex, and fancy new age Vex who think Maya stinks real bad and clothes are cool.

[slim girder]

And their leader Zephyrus has a sick fatebringer

[trim grotto]

fatbringer

[slim girder]

SHHHHH

[trim grotto]

dova no wait

[slim girder]

Dominos ghaul

[trim grotto]

don't do it

NO

[dim minnow]

he must have a high roll on it

[slim girder]

A cholesteroll

[slim girder]

If ghaul brought me a hawaiian i'd submit

[river surge]

"Observable"

We barely know what it does irl + its a theory

We simply decided to know it "exists" but in reality we dont know even what is it

Same as Big Bang

[trim grotto]

Moot point. It's observable in Destiny.

[river surge]

Correct

✌️

[slim girder]

The nine existing make dark matter a very real thing in destiny

[queen swallow]

Submit is a very weird way to say "throw it in the trash"

[slim girder]

And it lets bungie make more things with it like the crystals we use in our praxic blades

[slim girder]

Love my hawaiian pizzas

You just aren't built for good food i guess

[wet dagger]

Also I really hope we don’t have to kill Premier Lume in the future. I absolutely adore his lines from the frontier missions.

[river surge]

Probably will be killed by Bael in the future

[wet dagger]

😢

[river surge]

Imperium Barant is just a tool in reality

[slim girder]

As with most threats in the system there is a high chance just like bael he will die.
He already is wounded with the eclipse in his cuirass keeping the hive infection in his body at bay.

[river surge]

So expect bad stuff to come

[river surge]

Dont think Bael will die soon

They seem to stretch him further

Up to the Alchemist I believe

[slim girder]

Bael and Lume are problematic but have no backup against death like a lot of threats we face do.
They ironically are the weakest enemies we've faced

[slim girder]

Oh yeah definitely I'm just saying that I think he will die at some point.

[river surge]

Thats 100%

[river surge]

Eh, not the weakest but they had alot of shit behind the scenes, they were a bit problematic with that giant death star tho

Nightfall station

[slim girder]

Bael is only human, is in constant pain and while he may be adept in combat it only takes a bullet to harm him as we saw.
And same goes for Lume

[river surge]

Yet they did that much damage

Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers

[slim girder]

Oh yeah I know. Nightfall station and the power they command is not to be underestimated.
I'm just saying behind that they themselves aren't actually that powerful

It's their means that cause issues

[river surge]

Yeah ik, I 100% agree with you, I was just saying we at first underestimated them

[slim girder]

Lume is a wounded cabal on life support and Bael is a human desperate to prove himself to a "god" that does not give a damn about him.

[river surge]

But yeah behind the scenes they are just Cabal and Human

They barely hold anything

[wet dagger]

Gameplay wise, it’s another setup for a future dlc/season big boss to kill. Most of the ones setup in the light and dark saga we’ve defeated.
Also what’s happening with the taken? I’ve seen new taken war beasts in derealise but they look more like shadow thrall than actual taken, is there another being who has the ability to take now?

[river surge]

For The Alchemist, they are keeping Bael till The Alchemist 100%

the next one is abt Lodi

And Chicago

Tho

[slim girder]

The taken in heresy have willed a new master into being due to the desire of a leader.
This new leader is called The Lord of every nothing

[river surge]

Also VI is learning from this Lord Sword Logic

[slim girder]

A huge rule of the taken is that someone must lead them and if no one does it then something will be created to fill that role.
So the taken needing a leader sang and willed a new leader into existence

[river surge]

Also the Lord of Every Nothing sounds so fucking cool ngl

[slim girder]

The new "Dire taken" are led by this new Lord

[wet dagger]

Well then, i guess I’ll have to see what they possibly could do with wyverns and corsairs

[slim girder]

The Lord of every nothing also possesses the power to take and generally has been described as on a similar level to the winnower which is a destiny's equivalent of a cosmic god.

[wet dagger]

oh

[slim girder]

All the tentacles and eyes that give suffocating terror are it flexing its abilities.
It's got a very heavy Cthulhu vibe of it.

[dim minnow]

I don't really know if it's exactly on the scale of Winnower

[river surge]

Wasnt that specifically stated to be only inside The Deep

Ascendant Plane whatever

[slim girder]

We watched it do it in the new sunless cell

[river surge]

Oh shit

I forgot fr

Never played that strike that much

ITS TRASH

Especially on GM

[slim girder]

Which is why I said similar.

I'm just going off what was said in heresy

[wet dagger]

Shrieker hall of doom upon ye

[river surge]

It carves paths that should be belong to The Winnower meaning it has an extent of its power, not the full power

[river surge]

That one big room with full adds from every direction

Ehere you have to destroy 2 blights

😭

[slow berry]

Again, dark matter is not a theory.

There are theories as to how to explain the series of observations that tell us our current model is lacking something, but we know it exists

[heady gyro]

So what is omolon liquid bullets anyway

Is it like a hardening liquid

[slim girder]

I like to tell myself it's liquid being fired at supersonic speeds.

Like those machines IRL using water jets to cut through metal

[knotty musk]

yeah so like what even is this skeleton. cause it sure isn’t an ahamkara

the skull looks way too small to even THINK about going with that spine, nor does it even seem to fit the ahamkara head shape

[slim girder]

It is an ahamkara.
Ahamkara are shapeshifters and can take any kind of form they desire.
Just look at riven who is confirmed to be what ahamkaras true form looks like and then look at the skull you see in that structure

[knotty musk]

I did. they do not match

[slim girder]

They can be big, they can be small or even be other people to deceive them

That is an ahamkara though.
Presumably Hefnd given the boss name

[knotty musk]

so I guess their bones match the anatomy when they died?

[slim girder]

Pretty much yeah.
Seems that way at least..

Riven is massive compared to that.
Even her mate Taranis bones are bigger. So Hefnd could have def been a smaller ahamkara not in their true form

[hard sigil]

another good example is Huginn and Muninn. their skulls are very much a different shape than riven

[slim girder]

Also the skull hanging above Shaxx

[river surge]

"hypothethical"

literally the first thing u search on google

[knotty musk]

yea that’s the shape of the one in the column I sc’d

[hard sigil]

something I'm willing to call a reuse of assets

[slow berry]

https://science.nasa.gov/dark-matter/
wikipedia in 2026 but also not actually lore related so we should probably drop it

[slow berry]

To be noted that the bones themselves are also sentient so for all we know the bones could change shape as well

basically aside from riven being alive at some point we don't really have an actual hard rule for what ahamkara biology is supposed to be like

[heady gyro]

So like, cant we just throw in salt water into the tubes and call it kinetic omolon

[slim girder]

Honestly I have no idea and I don't think it's something we'll ever get an answer for.
They have tasty liquid as ammo and that's really it lol

[heady gyro]

Fuuuuck it's so interesting tho

[slow berry]

i'm pretty sure they're energy packs?

i don't think they actually shoot liquid

[river surge]

"Hypothetical"

[queen swallow]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

[river surge]

I do and in fact its literally says that

Proving something exists without proper clarification is like telling someone half the truth

[slow berry]

the only parts in that site where it says hypothetical are where it's talking about the theories that could explain the existence of dark matter

dark matter itself is not hypothetical

[river surge]

Just leave it like that

I dont wanna yapp about something that dosent benefit us both

U won

[slow berry]

it's like if you said fire was theoretical because phlogiston was a theoretical element

fire itself is a very real thing we know exists, we just didn't know how it worked and thus had theories and hypothetical explanations for it

[river surge]

Yes, I agree with you

[heady gyro]

No, they do say liquid amm, but they do use specialized batteries

It's just a very very specialized water gun

I could make an omolon gun for like 50 dollars and disregard for safety

[slow berry]

the supersoaker,,,,,,

[queen swallow]

Could be a non-newtonian fluid

Not sure how well they non at bullet speeds

[slow berry]

doesn't move like it in the tanks but it could be sci-fi shit

[heady gyro]

That's what i was thinking, but if they were launched via pressure, i feel like theyd solidify in the chamber

[slow berry]

that's my thinking yeah

very annoyed that omolon weapons don't intrinsically have considerably higher ammo capacity btw

like it's all liquid right

so it's 100% volume efficient

[heady gyro]

Probably shooting same volume as a steel bullet per shot

[slow berry]

more bullet per bullet

[heady gyro]

Im seriously considering making an omolon protoweapon

[slow berry]

https://tenor.com/view/portal2-portal-turret-bullet-more-bullet-per-bullet-gif-25145762

[heady gyro]

That's 60% more bullet

[knotty musk]

they must be shooting bigger bullets just to match ballistic’s output

[heady gyro]

Do we know what the phillipines is called post collapse?

[slow berry]

it's never been mentioned as far as i can remember

we only know of a handful of places on earth, really

i think generally people would recognize it as the phillippines though, place names seem to have remained

[dim minnow]

Unless they got all flooded over like Hawkesbury

[slim girder]

I hope Lodi reintroduces "game night food" into the city.

Also sounds like he's enjoying the crucible matches

He could also teach titans American football

[dim minnow]

Any attempt to get Guardians to play an actual sport will just end like this

there's already way too many of us who forget about playing the objective

[slim girder]

It would be funny though.

Like instead of football imagine baseball or tennis or golf

Generally i just hope now that Lodi is with us we might get little lore bits about him introducing american things to the city. There's also a lore card about him meeting Hawthornes bird who is also named Louis

[slow berry]

as a warlock i must admit to having played matches of collision/the other mode where you cap the flag once where i forget how it works and let the other team cap

[wet dagger]

i love lodi so much

[frigid sparrow]

This is still my biggest issue with Lodi

He's a baseball fan

[wet dagger]

I finally found the byf vid for the episodes, its specifically year 10 and includes final shape but the episodes have 1 hour 45 mins worth of story.
gonna have to listen to this when i wake up.

[slim girder]

Is that bad?
Full disclosure I'm Australian so I've never understood the "passion" of American sports

[frigid sparrow]

I just have a personal vendetta (and it's BOOORIIING)

[river surge]

As European (its boring)

[slim girder]

So it's similar to cricket here.
Most folks just think it's boring?.

Just from clips I always thought along with football and basketball, baseball was like high up there on America's biggest sports

[river surge]

We in Europe only like football and badminton

[frigid sparrow]

Baseball is VERY big here (and, surprisingly (or maybe not) Japan)

And I had the misfortune of being a boy scout who went to multiple games

[slim girder]

I have been to a couple games here. A player threw me their gloves and i have a ball with the whole teams signatures so that's nice

Wouldn't say i keep up with it though

Never been into sports unless it's motorsports and even then i still don't watch much

[frigid sparrow]

I saw a kid get hit in the face with a ball once

[slim girder]

Sadly crowd catches aren't a thing because the stadium closes off the back of the arena.

So the only place people can gather is behind the batter

[river surge]

Ur from Japan?

[frigid sparrow]

no I just played yakuza

[river surge]

[frigid sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-rgg-shinada-smile-happy-gif-26415541

[trim grotto]

The real question is why America has a World Series that
Doesn't
Involve
The world

[slim girder]

The same reason American movies talk about saving the world yet never show anything in other countries

[river surge]

Those movies where all the action happens in America but it is stated the whole thing happend in the whole world

[heady gyro]

The last city already has the second ammendment, so it's going pretty well

[slim girder]

Not really the second amendment it's more "Yeah there are alien threats everywhere, I think I need something just so I can at very least survive"

[slow berry]

It makes perfect sense though, baseball was insanely popular during Lodi's time

Also baseball fucks

[slow berry]

the humble bluejays:

[trim grotto]

the who

[slow berry]

Canadian team

Also aside from a couple of latinamerican countries and japan i dont think you could fill a proper worlds series lmao

[trim grotto]

yeah so two neighbouring countries hardly constitutes a "world series"

[slow berry]

the world (of north america)

[heady gyro]

Close enough

[calm granite]

The european mind cannot comprehend

[fluid peak]

This would be like if the UK put together a sport competition for just its members and then called it a global event. It's not.

[calm granite]

Don't they do it for cricket ?

Which is basically only a thing in former commonwealth countries

[hard sigil]

yeah we just had like. the tests here

and all the British people came over and then we won in one day so they were all stranded here with nothing else planned because they were expecting the game to go on for days

[calm granite]

British people coming to your country, oh the humanities

[trim grotto]

That makes up 56 countries, to be fair.

[fluid peak]

Yeah I think 56 countries would constitute a 'global' affair

[calm granite]

Not every commonwealth country that ever existed

From what I can find the cricket world cup in 2023 had like fucking 10 teams

That even worse than the yanks with the baseball worlds and they only have their own country

Oh yeah they got all the major countries at least

[calm granite]

Saying "56 member states" is a very misleading way of putting it

[slow berry]

that looks global to me

[hazy veldt]

Could somebody explain what exactly oracles do

And basically the whole premise of vault of glass id be very grateful

Like ik that oracles are in their essence calculation machines but they don’t use simulations so im puzzled

[slim girder]

They scan timelines and through the "ritual of negation" mark anything that must be purged from timelines.

The noise they make is iirc the signal that they've marked something

As for the premise of the vault of glass itself it is a vex stronghold where time is completely under their control and what they say dictates how it behaves.
It's almost like a pocket dimension in that way as well.

The templar, gorgons and atheon are all some of the most dangerous vex we've come across and we still haven't really encountered anything of that calibre maybe save for Panoptes or Quiria

[ember storm]

The purpose of the vault was a secure facility to create this technology and eventually find a way for it to function in the outside world

Which is to say they’d just be able to remove whatever they wanted from existence

[late heath]

Hey, is Maya dead? Like she's still alive just... weaker now, right? I know Heliostat was essentially the last real thing she was trying to accomplish but that got trounced along with her Echo of Command? So she's just in the background now til we deal with VI and Bael and the fallout of III's death?

Trying to figure out what "major players" are still out there without a Byf video. Lol.

[slim girder]

Maya is out there but weaker yes

Her echo is not as powerful anymore after she used it to kill III and the entity inside it also is unhappy with her

So heliostat was her attempt at trying to spread her influence through other means.

[late heath]

Gotcha. Thank you. I thought as such.

[trim grotto]

Many of us were once in your shoes haha

I remember the days of Mare Cognitum, Byf's now-deleted Discord Server

[slim girder]

Funny enough I didn't start watching byf until about forsaken era.
But back as a teen I just loved reading the old grimoire cards in the destiny app before D2 came out and changed the whole lore layout.

Ghost fragments, exotic weapon grimoires, etc

[dim minnow]

back in the day when most bosses had their own lore snippets

[slim girder]

Mhm

"The darkness" grimoire card being filled with a bunch of theories

Thorns grimoire card being my favourite ofc

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-thorn

[dim minnow]

Vex Mythoclast is my personal favorite

[sick yew]

Shoutouts to that Cabal dude stuck in a timeloop in the infinite forrest

Forgot what the strike was called but he remains memorable for his entrance alone

[dim minnow]

Tree of Probabilities

[slim girder]

He came back in heliostat

And was immediately shot by us

[sick yew]

Damn fr?

Tough shit

[slim girder]

Mhm. Poor guy but I guess this means he's been put down finally at least.
Maya was pulling red legion out so maybe in doing that he escaped that loop.

[sick yew]

Isnt it likely that he is still stuck in the loop within the captured Mercury?

The one Maya pulled was same guy but other timeline no?

[slim girder]

It's possible. But that's just my interpretation on it really.

[slim girder]

The talk about the old D1 grimoire cards got me feeling nostalgic so I went back through thorn and Rezyls lore cards. Always found it interesting that after jaren ward had been killed his ghost conversed with Yor before being handed the last word. Yor was a killer but he wasn't mindless and could definitely still be spoken to even though there was no redemption for him.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-thorn-4#dredgen-yor

Also with there being a cloak in D1 literally called "Cloak of dredgen yor" I can see why the hunter accusations happened

Insanely cool but also funny bit of old lore when we didn't know much back then.

[grand jungle]

isnt it cnnon that a titan pounch broke a mountain

[slim girder]

Not a whole mountain no. But it made it shake microscopically

[hard sigil]

Wei Ning my goat

[unreal kestrel]

Since when do vex cannibalize??

[queen swallow]

Since Maya gave them free will duh

[fluid peak]

this is from before echoes

[dim minnow]

Sol Divisive are basically the Vex equivalent to a Satanic cult

They directly worshipped the Darkness/Witness

[hazy veldt]

Man I can’t wait till they reintroduce veil back into the lore