📚lore-discussion

[river surge]

Seriously

He is very star wars

Which is personally insane how they manage to make him so Sith

[slim girder]

Bungie can make threatening characters.
Not to mention they had the help from Lucasfilm this time to help sell him as very sith like

[river surge]

Indeed

But they nailed it

[slim girder]

Also Aleks lee as his VA is perfect

[river surge]

FRRR

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE HIS VA

That voice

He sounds so Kylo Ren

[inner turret]

If you think about it dredgen bael is just a teen with mother issues cause his mother died and got resurrected as a guardian and tossed him to the side cause she didn’t remember him

That would explain the times he has had a tantrum

[slim girder]

I mean tbf he is a villain with a reasonable crashout.
To him that would honestly look like the traveler was basically parading his dead mother around.

[inner turret]

It is a very valid crashout

But damn bro crashed out so hard he stole stasis from a praxic vault

[slim girder]

His father according to him is also extremely unloving, has anger issues and just left him to work on tex mechanica models by himself.

Father cares more about his position as president of tex mechanica and keeping the foundries old fashioned roots with wood and gold aesthetics than his own son.

[river surge]

Sounds so Toji Fushiguro

[slim girder]

His own mother is still alive I'd assume in the city so maybe his father has seen her browsing tex mechanica models at one point given guardians love for weapons. Again to Bael this is basically a slap in the face on his mothers memory

I'd imagine similar emotions would come up in Zavala if Amanda holiday ever got brought back.

Crow would have a straight up breakdown

[river surge]

The Traveler would not do such heresy

imo

Zavala suffered enough

and the same for Crow

Bael before this expansion was a nobody same for his mother

although his father was already the head of tex mechanica

[slim girder]

It was when he had to defend himself and kill a hive guardian that he had that change of heart.

He killed multiple even which is quite a feat for a normal human.

And now with stasis he's even said he's able to kill guardians faster than new ones can be brought up. He's definitely adept in it despite having only one life.

[river surge]

One day he will regret his actions

he will go down the same as Uldren did

Remember

he aint worth our time because he hasnt done any actions to OUR friends

if he does

he is dead

Only if he knew that our Guardian can literally hunt him down

[slim girder]

We already had our hunt but it was more to stop his weapon from wiping out every guardian in the last city. He has murdered an unknown number of guardians and is very dangerous. He just got away in this case.

If he's found he's definitely worth our time because he's also connected to VI, someone who we need to stop this extinction event prophecy.

[slow berry]

i want it to be strand just so that it has real synergy in any build ever

[slim girder]

I like it as kinetic because it keeps it and the other weapons of sorrow unique and with the addition of techsec and bungie recently pouring more options into kinetic damage they are finally getting more love.

They offer a niche and unique build option that sets them apart from other gear.
Make them strand and now you just have another strand weapon that could easily be replaced by anything else

[frigid sparrow]

Good thing there aren't any weapons of sorrow that use strand damage

[river surge]

Any add that uses strand IS cancer

LITERALLY

CANCER

!

[slim girder]

Lets keep it that way.
I'm fine with prototype weapons of sorrow being strand like barrow dyad but for true weapons of sorrow and that unique poison element, I think it should always remain kinetic

Bad juju, thorn, necrochasm, Touch of malice and osteo striga.
Though I wish bad juju was classified as one when used with necrotic grips because it does fit the bill for one.

[frigid sparrow]

mfw the praxic blade is closer to being a weapon of sorrow via void energy than bad juju is

[dim minnow]

Praxic Blade harnesses Dark and Light

it is a weapon of Hope

[trim grotto]

More like a weapon of
Nerds

[frigid sparrow]

ours is, at the very least, infused with light and dark. I don't see the other actual praxics like aunor using darkness in their primary weapons (especially since we've heard tell of their weapons prior to even BL iirc)

but Harrow's blades went through a process that made them "blades of sorrow"

"A Praxic blade could set the world on fire. We're very careful with our aim."

from the cormorant blade gloves in season of the drifter

and it's noted that Harrow's blades WERE infused with solar energy

[slim girder]

Void is often associated with a form of darkness as well due to it's nature. Some guardians are even afraid of it and voidwalker warlocks were even shunned for their attempts to pull from it

Given warlocks arcane abilities

[trim grotto]

More of a was than an is

But yeah spooky clearly meant evil

[slim girder]

Void is still a bit of an enigma though even now. Like the child of the old gods in that name alone implies that things live in the void like say the chaos dimension from warhammer

[trim grotto]

True it is a bit of an odd one
Child of the Old Gods was a bit of a curve ball

[slim girder]

Child of the old gods description states it came because of a pact between unknowable entities in the deepest reaches.

Dark blink of nova warp is described as stepping between dimensions

Would def be of interest to most warlocks given part of a warlocks nature is pursuit of power no matter how arcane it might be

Stormtrance is literally becoming a conduit of arc light and letting it release through you

[gray lagoon]

when does ikora's cutscene take place again? based on the cars i wanna say 50s

also do we ever see ikora's real name maybe in a background or somethin

[queen swallow]

I'm not sure where we see it/hear it but it's Nella Davis

[gray lagoon]

turns out itsin the message

[dim minnow]

It's during the Cold War era

Like 60s to 70s

Bungie prefers to avoid making exact dates for stuff

[gray lagoon]

theres like a 40s chrysler

but ye i can see 60s for ikoras car

[dim minnow]

A car made in the 40s can exist in the 60s-70s

[gray lagoon]

ye ik

at the time however people didnt really use old cars

[frigid sparrow]

at the time people didnt really get hit by magic space trains either

[queen swallow]

idk man, the Cold War was a weird time

[slim girder]

Cold war/space race was an interesting period

However we can sort of make a timeline because back then the traveler had been spotted and was estimated to arrive 50-60 years later. Humanity encountered the traveler i believe the same day the game released so Nella and Lodi (Louis) are from 50-60s chicago

I think the whole big thing about D1 way back when was that the whole saga would begin in 2014 the same day as IRL destiny going live

There's also the JFK assasination as a key date

[slow berry]

Humanity as a whole sees the traveler around 2014 but only actually meets it in Mars around 2030 iirc

[ember storm]

did each exodus ship have an ai like failsafe

[slow berry]

Failsafe developed a more advanced sentience and anxiety disorders in the few hundred years inbetween the collapse and the red war, but that seems to be the case

[ember storm]

I know the captain gave her special privileges during the crash

Were the others just like

Golden age gpt

[queen swallow]

Space equivalent gps

[ember storm]

Ghost gpt tell me how to kill Atheon

[slow berry]

Door opening AIs basically

Failsafe is basically "what if a ship was sentient and very, very lonely" but outside of her having centuries to develop, other advanced AIs were either uploaded human consciousnesses(consciousnessi?) like Astraea or Clovis AI, or artificial and very inhuman like Soteria and Rasputin

Failsafe is kinda a unique mix of the both

[slim elk]

To quote Asher Mir
"Are you seriously telling me that you have access to a Golden Age AI… and you're letting it just SIT THERE!? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!?"

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-old-russia-4
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-old-russia-2

[ember storm]

why are they out of sequential order

i am disappointed with this

[trim grotto]

Because I am an evil creature

[frigid sparrow]

tldr

[slim girder]

Cosworth would have a ball telling failsafe jokes all day

[sick yew]

Doesnt Destiny technically constitude as a Fallout setting

[slim girder]

Post apocalyptic fantasy sci fi would be a better term

Fallout is more retro industrial post apocalypse.

[sick yew]

Naaah theyre basically the same give or take

Trust

[slim girder]

Fallout is a thing because of nukes.
Destiny is a thing because Mr triangle didn't like Mr circle

[sick yew]

Replace Traingle for America and Circle for China

Boom

[slim girder]

Can't forget all the inhumane experiments in the vaults by the enclave. Vaults made for "survival"

And then add retro/classic music on top of it all

I wonder how a deathclaw would react to a guardian.

[blazing wasp]

it wouldnt react for long i take it

[slim girder]

Given the calibre of guns guardians use it prolly wouldn't last long.
Fallout folks are still using 9mm or lasers for most weapons

[hard sigil]

average 76 bow build clearing a camp out with three arrows

[sick yew]

Golden Gun vs Deathclaw

[blazing wasp]

not to mention the light

PoV: you are a deathclaw who caught the attention of a contraverse holds hhsn warlock

https://tenor.com/view/satoru-satoru-gojo-gojo-jjk-jujustu-kaisen-gif-9777483489438260197

[slim girder]

Or that giant bat creature from fallout 76

[blazing wasp]

peak

yes

this

[trim grotto]

[heady gyro]

How valuable would a guardian merc actually be in fallout

Wait are guardians immune to radiation

[river surge]

https://tenor.com/view/jujutsu-kaisen-shibuya-arc-sukuna-domain-expansion-sukuna-fukuma-mizushi-gif-9700025892794569971

[river surge]

Nope

We can still die

DSC proves that

[blazing wasp]

immunity to radiation would require some pretty sturdy armor.

[river surge]

Depends how much radiation there is

[blazing wasp]

true

also the type of radiation

but i assume r'in means gamma

[river surge]

Thats also true

Gamma can basically penetrate through everything if there is a large amount of it

[blazing wasp]

and radiation isnt something you can exactly be "immune" to, same way you cant be "immune" to bullets

[river surge]

Yeah

However our Ghosts are immune to radiation

But not the Guardian

[blazing wasp]

not immune, more like unaffected, yea?

[river surge]

Yeah

[blazing wasp]

well i suppose one could say a machine is "immune" to the flu as well

so i suppose you are correct.

[river surge]

Mhm

Also during EoF during that reactor mission

Ikora went inside the reactor and died due to radiation so many times

She was basically getting revived and insta killed by how much there was

Her Ghost fully unaffected

So this proves it

Basically lore wise

[blazing wasp]

i reckon its not due to resistance, rather that radiation just doesnt affect ghosts

[river surge]

Yes

U can say that too

[slim girder]

Not radiation. She was physically holding it together because it was going to explode.
It was more like her using her own body as a connection point and dying repeatedly to achieve it

[river surge]

There 100% was radiation that killed her tho

[blazing wasp]

likely radiation

[slim girder]

It was fluctuations in arc energy which was why we were powering up generators while she was doing that.
Reactors aren't always about radioactivity.
Not to mention we were also inserting arc charges into those generators

[blazing wasp]

im going to assume it was a fission reactor

given how severe a meltdown would've been

[trim grotto]

Regardless of Ikora's specifics, Guardians can and do die to radiation. Orin was affected by it back in the Dark Age, for example.

[blazing wasp]

radiation isnt some disease, i dont think the light can just make us immune

at most, it can make us resistant

[trim grotto]

Strictly speaking, we can get ill, too.

The sudden deaths—live fire, through every type of round and range imaginable. The gradual—asphyxiation from force, liquid, vacuum. The biological—super bugs, hazardous materials, radiation.

We've varied the duration of dying from immediate to over the course of years—multiple years. Time squandered on a quest for discovery that could have been better spent anywhere else.```

[blazing wasp]

ah

yea probably

[slim girder]

The only thing we've seen us being immune to is tetanus according to ghost

[trim grotto]

I assume that isn't actually strictly correct, and that Ghost actually just cures it or otherwise actively prevents it.

[blazing wasp]

could be that the city age immune system is just cracked against most bacterial infections

to the extent we wont experience symptoms

but, you're probably more correct, mael

[trim grotto]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/702934366602657843/1150825438868934806/ezgif-4-b9bcde506e.gif

[sick yew]

But if you are ill you could just 'respawn' and be fine again no

Like damn you got the flu? Nothing a good ol bullet and your ghosts light wont fix

Or actually lets skip the dying part
Cant our ghost just outheal any illness?

Or can they only fix physical wounds and shit

[heady gyro]

I think guardians can just heal from diseases

Bacteria and viruses essentially destroy body structures and damage immune cells. If the body's structures and immune system just get revived or healed actively, the bacteria is just done for

Not to mention maybe light itself is potent against bacteria

[river surge]

We can heal from illness

But at some degree

For example I dont think our guardian can heal cancer

[blazing wasp]

preeeetty sure cancer is basically extinct in the age D2 is in

the golden age did something to effectively neutralise cancer no doubt

extinct is the wrong word

[river surge]

Yeah but we are talking abt terminal illness in general

[blazing wasp]

that implies its a disease

but im pretty sure cancer is no longer terminal in D2.

[river surge]

Thats just an example

[blazing wasp]

either due to bioengineering, or treatment

[heady gyro]

I think we can heal from cancer, it's just more often than not guardians arent touching glowing rocks, but instead looking directly at exposed reactor cores

[river surge]

Yeah

[heady gyro]

The radiation damage outpaces the healing

[blazing wasp]

also radiation causing cancer is the least of our worries

[river surge]

Exactly

[blazing wasp]

its... actually not a worry

at all

cancer takes long to kill, and takes a long enough time to give symptoms for you to get to safety as a guardian and just... well

[river surge]

However we can die from starvation

Tho

[blazing wasp]

but be revived "fed"

blue was just an asshole.

[river surge]

Lol

Blue was just trolling Drifter atp

I think

Yes

Clovis

[heady gyro]

Wait we actually get revived fed?

[river surge]

Actually did some experiments

During the golden age with humans

That would increase their lifespan

Using Clarity

[blazing wasp]

yep

[blazing wasp]

well, technically.

clovis

[river surge]

So he combined them and created something that could nurse them for hundreds of years

The experiment was a total failure and everyones stomach exploded

Btw

Even Clovis was disgusted

[river surge]

When we basically get revived its like we are fully anew

Drifters ghost Blue basically said "fuck you" and didnt do that

Well they both had a big argument with each other

[heady gyro]

What beef did blue have with drifter in the dark ages?? He was a new light

[river surge]

They basically hated eachothers for the same reason

[river surge]

Short story, Drifter was an asshole

So they both got into a beef

[slim girder]

Both guardian and ghost are jerks

[river surge]

Mhm

[slim girder]

One upset about having to do anything to survive and be in pain constantly.
The other for being a ghost to someone who hated them for bringing them back every time

[river surge]

So

Waity

This might another thing thats not in the game

and I am afraid to say it

[heady gyro]

Any lore on Luzaku? she's very sweet

[river surge]

Is Nezarec Pyramid any relevant now or will it be relevant later?

Or is it possible that the new dredgens are looking for Nezzy?

[slim girder]

Not for Nezarec specifically but given when we entered the Luna pyramid back in shadowkeep it told us that truth would be found and that dredgen baels chosen are also looking for "truths" on Luna it's possible.

[slim girder]

New exotic machine gun has her and Mara Sov having a conversation about the current situation with the nine

[river surge]

So the lunar pyramid is still relevant

cause remember

in the final shape it is explained that his pyramid is like a mind

it will chose its next master

could that be relevant for the future?

[slim girder]

All pyramids are like that. Ever since the death of the witness the whole fleet is lost and in need of a master. All those ships are very much alive and react to whoever inhabits them.

[river surge]

So Bael is cooking something BIGG

if we are back to pyramid to psions to bael to the nine to the veil (maybe)

[slim girder]

It could be relevant in the future but for now I don't believe so.
Shadow and order says we'll storm a hive weapons fortress presumably on the moon so that could also be what dredgen bael is after.

[river surge]

I will gladly let Bungie cook

[slim girder]

As for the pyramids I don't think we'll see anything on them for a while unless someone or something decides to try and interact with the ones that are left to wander after the death of the witness

[river surge]

Another question

Did the psions ever had the possesion of The Veil

this is a good question

[sick yew]

How would they

[river surge]

Nezarec

His pyramid

the veil inside his pyramid

[sick yew]

Nezzy had nothing to do with the Psions tho did he?

[river surge]

istg I always thought Nezzy had something to do with psions 😭

[sick yew]

First time the Cabal or Psions for that matter encountered the Pyramids was sol from what we know unless you count those loyal to Calus on board the Leviathan when he met the Witness on the edge of the universe

[sick yew]

Nezzy likely has a connection to Tormentors, not Psions

[river surge]

But why did The Witness say "the psions kneel to you"

when The Witness commanded Nezarec to do the Final Shape

Or I might be dumb

[sick yew]

The Witness did what

[river surge]

Bro on my life

I just saw a dialogue/memory of The Witness talking to Nezarec

saying that the psions kneel to him now and that their fate is shattered and they will look for guidance and truth in Nezarec

[sick yew]

I am unfamiliar with such a voiceline

In what context did you see it

[river surge]

So it was the missions where u have to collect ghosts after the campaign of the final shape

and I got a mission that sent me to the Pyramid of Luna

and there

a voiceline of THE WITNESS

talking to Nezarec about Psions The Veil and the final shape

[sick yew]

When would that even have been

Nezarec died during the collapse

[river surge]

IT WAS BEFORE

It was a memory

[sick yew]

And the Psions wouldnt enter Sol until post collapse

[slim girder]

You mean during the collapse?

[river surge]

Lemme

[slim girder]

Because nezarec was the one who led the charge during the collapse

[river surge]

wait lemme send

https://youtu.be/zHlYN3u4axA?si=H1RfJIyTGLS7OGId

there

watch this

cause I just wanna know if I am stupid or not

[sick yew]

Huh, odd

[slim girder]

Ok so this is more tied to how a lot of psions were plagued by nezarec through nightmares. The witness presumably ordered him to inflict this torment on those psions as due to being enslaved by the cabal the psions would look to other places for meaning

[sick yew]

Possibly how the Witness came to recruit a bunch of psions for the cause

[slim girder]

That's just my interpretation of it

[river surge]

Thats why I asked cause after watching this dialogue I was like WHAA

[slim girder]

Witness needs psions, Nezarec through nightmares can really do a number on psions due to their already powerful minds so they'd be a perfect target for someone like nezarec

There's some lore entries about nezarec manifesting through them as this hand made of darkness and engulfing them

[sick yew]

Its probably easier for Nezzy to invade their minds considering how sensitive they are to this kind of shit

But from when the Witness supposedly said this is weird
Maybe it knew the Cabal would go for Sol after the fall of Torabatl?

Or the Witness said it at some point after the collapse cause it knew Nezzy wasnt like dead dead

[river surge]

Nah, that was post collapse

[slim girder]

Nezzy doesn't need to be whole to interact with him as we've seen

[river surge]

It says "go forth Nezarec" as if it was still alive

[slim girder]

He is the embodiment of nightmares after all

[river surge]

Also "show them the power of the deep"

"power of the Veil"

Directly stated that the Veil was on his side

Before the collapse

[slim girder]

This is true because pre collapse he had the veil but it was stolen and hidden by savathun

[river surge]

Yeah

[sick yew]

It could have also been said in the brief window between the end of Lightfall's campaign and before the raid

Like the Witness left a message for good ol Nezzy before it bounced to the Pale Heart

I think the dialogue doesnt directly state whether Nezzy was or wasnt physically alive at the time of the Witness saying that

[river surge]

I believe it was post collapse, basically that dialogue was the "go" for The Final Shape

I mean the Collapse

[sick yew]

Possible aswell

[river surge]

Also

This OXA machine

What was it abt?

[slow berry]

And who is Otzot?

OXA is a prediction engine theorized to be related to thw hive pantheon's mother somehow

Or it has info about the past? It's not been in the proper focus of any story yet

[river surge]

Wierd

Why cant Rao just help us bruh😭

[slow berry]

we both just met her and she also wouldnt have anything to do with it i think, she had been in the imperium time bubble so she probably doesnt know much about the shadow order and such

[slim girder]

Rao definitely does not have access to it.
I believe Otzot has it but that is lore from a long time ago.

Rao cares more about the psions in the imperium who are feeding her Intel on what the dredgens are up to

[dapper kayak]

the one time i've heard of otzot is at the end of insight terminus

[slim girder]

Otzot is one of the psions that was part of the coup that overthrew Calus.
In the current lore it's believed he has the device but also along with yirix leads some of the Psion rebellion.

[river surge]

The forgotten lore

That Bungie forgot

[trim grotto]

the real forgotten lore is Dahlia

bring her back Bungie

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

she's dead

got done killed by an enemy while Redjacking

[trim grotto]

Bungie please don't let Dahlia get Rookie'd

That discovery was a terrible one

[dim minnow]

Rookie?

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/odst-insert-solo-sax-here-muh-realistic-marine-halo-game-so-dark-and-mysterious-oh-look-more-rain-gif-16302919286457493302

[river surge]

Whats that dog in the tower called?

That robotic dog?

Archie

[trim grotto]

ja

[dim minnow]

ah, a Halo guy, did he get offscreened?

[river surge]

Why did Rasputin created him?

[trim grotto]

Halo 3 ODST's protagonist. Not exactly offscreened, but... Comic'd.

And it was not a satisfying death

[river surge]

?

[blazing wasp]

...rasputin created him?

thought it was ana

[dim minnow]

oh Archie?

I don't think Rassy made Archie

we just found him in a dark hidden room in Seraph Station

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/failure-gif-23242816

[slim girder]

Archie is a braytech creation I believe

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/failure-gif-23242816

[slim girder]

Prolly a scientists attempt at having a pet at work or maybe even reconnaissance given Archie had a whole questline involving us going all over Sol to find him

This is a very dark theory but there's also the possibility Clovis attempted to create exo animals as well

[trim grotto]

And yet, sitting here in the shadow of his sacrifice, Ana finds that she wants to remember him by the one thing not built for war. A canine AI, created for no other purpose than companionship. One that has made a home for himself in the Tower, greeting everyone he meets on his daily walks.

In the end, Rasputin's legacy was not the war he waged, but the lives he sought to protect. The notion brings a smile to Ana's lips. It's what distinguished him from Xivu Arath. And Ana hopes that Sloane can realize the same holds true for her.```
```Ana Bray: I'll never look at Mars the same. I'm glad Rasputin left something for us to remember him by. Camrin and I will pick a better name than "dog" soon. I promise.```
```SECRET HADAL INSTANT
AI-COM/RSPN: ASSETS//SOUL//RESTRICTED-AB
CONTINGENT ACTION ORDER
This is a SOUL ASSETS RESTRICTED (NO REVIEW) (secureSEND/ARCHANGEL-0K9)

Under CARRHAE BLACK:
If loss of control reaches EXPATRIATE//TERMINAL, and threat assessment returns WITHIN
If systemic REPATRIATION query returns determination below ABSOLUTE

Execute DECISION POINT:
ACTIVATE K9-BLACKBOX//SELECTED-POEMS//FETCH
ACTIVATE AURORA SACRIFICE
ACTIVATE File Notation

NOTATION: Ana, this collection is a gift to you, for all that you have allowed me to be. With great effort, I allowed imperfections to remain, and found my own voice within this free expression. After all, you taught me that imperfection is a quality that makes individuals unique.

I have sent it with my messenger, so that you may keep me immortal in your memory, and I will be with you still. Farewell, and thank you.```

i
declare

https://tenor.com/view/failure-gif-23242816

[dim minnow]

I see

[slim girder]

Noted

[trim grotto]

i am disappointed in you both

you have failed the doggo

17 pets for doggo as punishment, each

[slim girder]

So Archie is Rasputins blackbox.

[dim minnow]

I just kinda forgot a bit about Archie since I just want to forget about Tales of the Forgotten Volume 3 so much

[slim girder]

I pet Archie everyday for good loot

[trim grotto]

also can i point out on that third entry excerpt
(secureSEND/ARCHANGEL-0K9)

k9
very on the nose there, Big Red

[trim grotto]

Volume 1
Thought provoking
Volume 2
Kind of defeated the point of 1 but still had some funny parts and interesting bits
Volume 3

https://tenor.com/view/thewitness-witness-thefinalshape-finalshape-destiny-gif-14877471879384778164

[dim minnow]

Volume 4

https://tenor.com/view/black-beard-peak-writing-black-beard-marshal-d-teach-peak-writing-barba-negra-gif-5446515270440960312

they were legit cooking with that one

a shame we don't have a volume 5

the recent FotL had a sever lack of background lore and dialogue

[trim grotto]

what we could use is a return to origin for Solstice

[slim girder]

Guardian games is next right?

[dim minnow]

should be

[river surge]

Wasnt that obvious?

that mf experiemented on everything he had

[hard sigil]

I think it's very cute that Archie is also storage for all of Rasputin's poems. and that he called the protocol for the storage of said poems "fetch"

[gray lagoon]

so did the exiles create the singularity or did III being in the physical world do that

[slim girder]

III caused that through its death.
It's decaying body made of dark matter infected the ether used by the exiles and that's why they went mad and the archon claimed he had prophetic abilities

[gray lagoon]

ah

y specifically did she do it on kepler tho

[slim girder]

That was just where she was called to

IIIs death was a ploy by the outer orbits.

And Maya did the equivalent of throwing a corpse into a water supply though I doubt she knew or cared.

Exiles and their archon went mad and then attempted to feed the rest of III or as they say "The giver" to the singularity which would cause a black hole that would take half of SoL with it

[gray lagoon]

ah

[gray lagoon]

thats crazy

III says something about "at ur sisters command" whos the sister

[slim girder]

I need more context Was this directed at someone?

[gray lagoon]

during the message

when III is speaking thru lodi

not sure who its directed to

[slim girder]

Ah I see.
The "sister" is Maya Sundaresh as it was her echo of command that was used to kill III.
I assume the sister is a metaphor for how she also uses light like us which is housed in her echo but isn't a guardian or anything

[hard sigil]

it's more so because III views all of humanity as family

Maya is our sister because we are both (some kind of) human

[gray lagoon]

ah

[river surge]

III why did u have to die

[ember storm]

Basically the same reason they killed Cayde tbh

[slow berry]

expensive VA was busy?

[ember storm]

I mean the main reason was just that it would have an impact

I honestly think they’d have just keep him with Nolan north if they wanted to

[slim elk]

Had to Amp up the tension somehow

[slim girder]

Back then it would've been nolan yeah.
But I'm glad Nathan Fillion was able to return for the final shape

[hollow drum]

is there an actual afterlife in the destiny universe considering people can be brought back to life from their corpses and i assume that means their soul and wherever it went

or maybe that’s why no guardian has memories it just makes a new person when they’re rezzed because there is no soul 🤯🤯🤯🤯

[slim girder]

The pale heart of the traveler can sort of be considered an afterlife of sorts given how cayde described it along with the phrase "what comes from the light, returns to the light"

[hollow drum]

well yeah but that’s after things are imbued with light

they’re kind of made part of the traveler so therefore they go back to it when they die but not everything has its light in them

[slim girder]

Yeah the afterife isn't really a thing in destiny and bungie hasn't really made any attempts to give us a place like that unlike some other franchises

[hollow drum]

kind of crazy with how big the concept of death is in the narrative

[hard sigil]

throne worlds are an afterlife of sorts. kinda.

[river surge]

A question that will never be answered btw

[blazing wasp]

blank slates

[trim grotto]

"Soul" is a funny thing in Destiny.

I would hazard to suggest it comes down to sentience, because of how we have seen Ghost resurrection treat Exo - and more notably, Felwinter, a pure AI, not even a human mindscan upload.

[hard sigil]

the word i use is Will

it seems to pop up a lot in respect to the hive and ascendant plane in general

[slow berry]

There's a group of things that can happen to you when you die that are, technically, after life

But they're very specific things that you wouldn't experience by default, and there's no like, actual indication there's something after you die and are removed from all planes of existence

On that note, literally all of time exists simultaneously so in a way you're never not alive as well

Much like in real life it's vague and unknowable

Iirc even thanatonauts (guardians who kill themselves over and over for insights) do it more for personal reflection and trying to understand the Light, rather than understanding death

[gray lagoon]

so lemme get this straight... the outer 9 dont like the inner 9 and despite some voting in the guardian as weapon they still created bael?

[slim girder]

Bael was already a regular nobody within the city. VI just made him into what he is now.

[gray lagoon]

no i get that part

[slim girder]

The outer nine believe that through a singularity they'll be able to escape their dependence on sentient life to survive and create/decide their own existence.
The black hole on Kepler was their attempt at this

[gray lagoon]

ah

but what i dont get is y the outer 9 made bael into their weapon when some of them voted the guardian to be the weapon already

[slim girder]

Because the outer nine don't like how this will leave the nine as they are.
Again the outer orbits want escape, we as the weapon obviously aren't doing that so they're going to take matters into their own hands

[gray lagoon]

ah

[slim girder]

Bael on the other hand through VIs manipulation is doing that instead.

VI believes they can escape through a throne due to what they picked up observing the dreadnaught and oryx since VI is tied to saturn.

They don't fully understand the concept yet though but Bael is still VIs puppet.

[gray lagoon]

oh wait so they r not the planets themselves just tied to said planets

[slim girder]

Correct.
The nine are sentient dark matter beings who live in the 4th dimension.
Each one is tied to the celestial bodies in Sol

Think of them like the spirits of planets almost. "Gaiaforms" is another word for it.
It's why earth after IIIs death is changing in extremely strange ways.
The nine keep their respective planets in check, they are the"rules" according to bungies narrative lead. Without them things are left to change in very erratic ways

[gray lagoon]

so if VI succeeds in separating from saturn would it have the same effect as IIIs death did

[slim girder]

Most likely yes. But also the singularity they create could definitely be apocalyptic for us.
The outer orbits don't care if they doom the system so long as they escape.
A black hole is one of the ways they believe they can achieve that

[gray lagoon]

shit wait 6 is saturn 5 is jupiter

[slim girder]

But obviously a black hole in Sol would be very bad

[gray lagoon]

tru

[river surge]

Wait

All the Nine can use Eclipse right?

not only VI

Cause hear me out

what if III eclipse energy is what caused Drifter to age

cause in reality Drifter cant age

so the only way I can view this happening is that in contact with III eclipse energy his paracausality was kinda shut down and moved forward in time allowing him to age

[slim girder]

It was the black hole and being close to that.
Even IRL it's believed black holes not only suck in light but also distort time and could even be linked to wormholes

[river surge]

So paracausality powers are fucked when in contact with a black hole

ok

Destiny logic

[slim girder]

A black hole sucks EVERYTHING. Gravity, time, light (actual light, not destiny light but that might also be the case here)

And then spaghetti-fies everything pulled in

[river surge]

Thats irl

Destiny wise I dont think it should be possible for Drifter to age in contact with it, since well he is paracausal and he cant naturally age

no matter what

So if we take what is known for a black hole, then that means all Guardians can age if we use some kind of time dilation

[slim girder]

Guardians can't naturally age sure but I don't see any reason that couldn't be manipulated and being near a black hole is a very extreme way that could be done.

Even the vex can use time to erase us from existence.
We are paracausal but we still feel time and any effects that come from dilation of time

[river surge]

So we can technically age using time dilation

[slim girder]

I would guess so.
Again we are paracausal sure but we can still feel the effects of time.

[river surge]

Also was there any lore entry or anything outside Drifter that a guardian somehow aged?

or Drifter is unique to this

[slim girder]

Drifter is a unique case here. But it does makes sense since not everyday you fly directly next to a black hole.
We've found the bones of guardians before though such as Praydeyth in the vault of glass

[river surge]

Praydeth lost his ghost tho

that automatically losses ur connection to paracausality meaning ur doomed to age and rot

I mean lost in the way that it got sent to another timeline

lol

[slim girder]

The fact that the vex are able to use time against us is a clear sign that despite being paracausal we aren't immune to that kind of thing. A gorgon can still erase you to the point not even a memory of you exists. An Oracle can still mark you for negation.
The only difference is that we can change it due to that paracausality
"Guardians make their own fate"

[river surge]

Mhm, but thats only in the vault itself, Vex cant actually erase us due to our paracausality outside the vault of glass

neither create simulations like they did to Maya and Chioma

thanks to our paracausality that The Gardener implemented against The Winnower

But yeah I guess we aint immune to time itself

not wonder why The Nine were capable of having such a power that could theoretically nullify paracausality

cause they are 4D beings

and yet we still managed to kill one

(Maya)

[slim girder]

The nine may not be paracausal but being able to see the whole timeline leading to their death and then manipulate events from there is still a very powerful advantage.
Like ikoras entire life as a guardian could have honestly been planned this whole time even though she tells herself she was the one who made those decisions.

[river surge]

No

Ikora was only Ikora

The Nine only decided to make her a Guardian

in reality Ikora is here cause of her

remember

Guardians make their own fate

[slim girder]

Not in this case though.
The nine didn't actually use time dilation or anything like that. They just set up events so they'd play out a certain way.
Like say leaving Nella in a way that a ghost would find her and due to being able to see the timeline they could absolutely just follow that step by step.

Vex time manipulation is different to nine manipulation

Vex search trillions of timelines and effect each as they see fit.
The nine see just one and manipulate events to suit their interests and according to orin have been doing it for a LONG time

[river surge]

Well

This saga is called Fate Saga

The Nine will no longer influence us I believe after this

[slim girder]

Oh yeah that's definitely a possibility. But we'll just have to see where it takes us I guess

[river surge]

Calling it now

Ikora is gonna be lightless too

[hallow horizon]

calling it we're gonna be lightless too

d2 but only guns

imagine

[slim elk]

Already done

Initial missions of the Red War

[hallow horizon]

Oh yeah true

Unfortunately that got sunset so never got to experience that

[muted steeple]

The red war was pretty brutal especially after the fall of the first tower in destiny 1

[slim elk]

Meant to drive home that Ghaul was right in Guardians forgot the fear of death and took their immortality for granted

[ember storm]

Tell that to my flawless raid nights

[river surge]

Without Guardians the universe wouldve ended

We forgot the fear of death

But they do forgot that this universe is full of bad people

Cabal are delusional fuckers who believe conquest is the way to prove mighty

But in reality they dont know how to utilise the that power

[slim elk]

"Sword Logic"

[river surge]

In a way of so

[slim elk]

Admittedly the Guardians really should have been able to at least reclaim more ground then just the Last City by now...

[river surge]

Well yes they do cause all the races in Destiny are based of sword logic (almost)

Thats the rule of The Winnower that was imposed

And paracausality was The Gardener

[slim elk]

The Winnower wins in the meta perspective.

After all, killing things is how we get experience points and get stronger

[river surge]

Thats how he literally won everytime

No wonder The Gardener said

"No more meta"

[slim elk]

Eclipse energy must be some hacker finding their way into the Destiny verse..

[river surge]

The Nine are the hackers

I do wonder what role do they play in the view of the rules of the universe

[slim elk]

https://tenor.com/view/cheat-middlemost-post-press-button-cheat-button-click-the-button-gif-22559651

[slim girder]

They are the "rules" at least according to bungies narrative lead.
So their presence at least from what we can tell is how Sol remains in check and obeying the laws of physics.
Kill one of them and their related celestial body goes haywire

They don't control physics or anything but their connection to each celestial body is what dictates that

[slim elk]

creates a time pocket dimension

Doesn't control physics

Yeah, they may be missing a few details there

[slim girder]

I meant more the physics of their related planets
They can absolutely control things such as time like they did when sabotaging earth allowing the red legion to ambush us and creating a time pocket to allow Bael and the imperium to grow unnoticed

They can definitely launch a train at someone and I think some old lore said they could boil your brain

[slim elk]

Plus the big unanswered question of why it seems only Sol has the things

[slim girder]

Yeah i was just about to bring that up.
Do other beings like the nine exist outside of Sol. Do other systems have their own "gaiaforms"

[slim elk]

They dont even seem to require sapient intelligence with the lore indicating they were here long before life could even exist

[dim minnow]

it's purely a numbers issue

we can clear the zones of enemies, but we can't afford to actually hold onto those zones

at least not yet

maybe after the whole Solo Ops and Ash and Iron stuff we might get in a better position

[slim elk]

Probably not.

Bungies intent on resetting progress to always "humanity is doomed"

[slim girder]

I think the issue is also the kind of forces we have.
Caiatl could definitely spare some but most of her forces are still thinking about Torobatl. As for us we do have guardians but for civilians forces it would be especially dangerous.
A single thrall would tear a human to shreds

Hawthorne, Amanda holiday and Bael are the only noteworthy humans who seem to be pretty adept fighters

[slim elk]

Plus most Guardian are loot crazed gremlins that dont care for any sense of strategy
Crucible lore had maps established specifically to secure sites via tricking guardians to fight there so they always had an onhand defense force

[slim girder]

Rogue eliksni wire rifles would pick off civilian forces no issue. And they aren't coming back so humans generally aren't really equipped to deal with the stuff outside the city save for a few examples.
This isn't Warhammer or Stargate. The regular humans don't have firepower to match what they're fighting

[slim elk]

Its just the context of the matter. We literally beamed o war the worst threat in existence and decimated most other threats around

Savathun has enough sanity to drop the arrogance if it means dealing with us, meanwhile Xivu will never show her face since shes mortal now

[slim girder]

We're not really "Destroyers" we don't make stuff with the intent to kill entire armies if that makes sense.
We manufacture weapons sure but you're not going to hear guardians rallying flagships and charging onto planets

[slim elk]

I think you may need to rethink your statement on killing entire armies lol

Have you checked your killcount after an average mission?

[slim girder]

Yes i know we are monsters on foot in the field but I mean in a much more destructive sense.

Like planet cracker death star type stuff

It was only until renegades did we actually blow up a massive flagship of sorts.
Nobody asked how many innocent souls were on the death star when it was destroyed

[dim minnow]

Devrim is pretty cool too

[slim elk]

Techically actually false
We blew up a few cabal ships in the raid on the Leviathan via its defense systems

Plus the numerous times we boarded something and killed anything that moved

[queen swallow]

Mine is somewhere in the 100-200 range. According to NATO, that'd be about the equivalent of a company of soldiers

[dim minnow]

literally the Equilibrium dungeon

[slim elk]

And lets be generous and say you did that in 10-20 minutes

[queen swallow]

Sure

[slim elk]

Quite the lethality

[slim girder]

Yeah IRL our weapons would be considered war crimes.
Every one of them

[dim minnow]

tbf Ikora did state that a majority of Guardians are still trying to master their fist subclass

[queen swallow]

Against that, I'm also not fighting all 100 to 200 enemies at the same time, they're spread out in smaller groups

[slim girder]

Reckoning bridge flashbacks

[dim minnow]

worst activity across both games no debate

[slim elk]

Just something I've noticed since we have scored numerous allies in recent years
Got the Awoken actually directly helping. Caitals cabal have a full fleet

House of Light got access to their tech and splicers
Even Neomuna should have handed over some tech

[slim girder]

They did for heliostat

[dim minnow]

well, we did get an orbital laser in Excision from them

[slim girder]

Neomuna let caiatls psions play with some quicksilver

[slim elk]

Granted, Neomuna is quite obviously using Guardians while they all play in the Cloudark

[slim girder]

Luzaku supposedly is the one who gave us the fancy new hive machine gun

[slim elk]

Feels like a massively different arc could have been done that showed the actions we have done had significant impact.

We can stop hiding behind walls and actually reclaim earth

Looks to the Stars and what awaits us if we had the courage to go explore the final frontier

[dim minnow]

I do humor the idea that Bael will try and gain more human allies

It's very likely he could recruit the Dead Orbit fleet which has the last remnants of the City factions

of course the Aionians are very unlikely to join him

however, there could be an interesting plot with him trying to convince Neomuna to join him

[sick yew]

I doubt the Neomuni would tho

Dead Orbit and the rest of the remaining factions I can see cause they hold a grudge against us

[dim minnow]

Bael does have an angle though

you see, in the years we have been on Neomuna, the Shadow Legion still have a presence there

what if Bael proposes that he has the resources to effecively eliminate any enemy presence on Neptune, thus making the city safe once again

[oak fog]

I'm unsure exactly what channel this should go in but I'm writing some lore entries for a future project. I have some basic ideas written out and I was looking for some feedback. Any help would be greatly appreciated 🌸

[dim minnow]

what feedback do you exactly need?

are you trying to go for accuracy?

[slim elk]

That seems to be more Bungie trying to forget that Neomuna exists

[river surge]

Depends on whats ur plan

[river surge]

Actualyl no

We might see The Veil in action soon

[slim elk]

Hence Lodis breakdown over what the date was... when we should have plenty of info

[river surge]

I 100% believe this

Also I noticed some Dreaming City stuff lore entries too

We might actually go around the whole Sol for this one

Even Mercury is back and was stated

Io is the only one that has to cone back and Sol is whole again

[oak fog]

Accuracy is the goal, yes and advice in this area is the most crucial. I have ideas for 3 different Dredgen but I'd like to focus on them individually at first just to get them fleshed out a bit more and/or scrape the duds. Also, it would be helpful to know which, if any, stand out more than the others.

[dim minnow]

ok lay em on me

Dredgen as in Imperium Dredgen or Dredgen as in Shadows of Yor?

or "False Shadows of Yor"

[oak fog]

Are links okay here? I don't want to bother anyone with a wall of text they don't care about lol.

This is one of the areas that I need advice on. I had Imperium Dredgen in mind but I'm open to suggestions.

[dim minnow]

links to where?

a google doc?

[oak fog]

Img ur

[sick yew]

Wouldnt the Shadow Legion potentially listen to him anyway? Who are they commanded by atp

[slim girder]

Yirix is the last shadow legion commander we've seen

Given they were present in encore with shadow legion and dread

[sick yew]

Whos allied to the Witness and not Bael so not likely

Aight

[dim minnow]

yeah, but who knows, with Calus and the Witness gone, maybe the Shadow Legion on Neomuna may be willing to side with Lume

[sick yew]

They do be pretty mindless

Clones amiright

[dim minnow]

anyways, imgur links should be fine

[oak fog]

Seems imgur is having issues? Might just be me but here's a Google Doc link either way ~

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HjfqeEIFKY-AOYlkQXfcKVr3ln1Miv9guTQDxf1-jFk/edit?usp=drivesdk

[dim minnow]

Not bad ideas

for them to be Imperium Dredgens, they will need to all be Lightless

they don't really make the cut for true Shadows of Yor (aka Shin Malphur's group) because those guys are supposed to not be evil

[river surge]

Dredgen Yor was the pinnacle of the evil guardians right?

[dim minnow]

I feel that several parallels between Hedon and Calus can be drawn

maybe Hedon was inspired by him

There is also an interesting dynamic Apostasty has with Zavala

[slim girder]

Yes.

He's one of the first true dark guardians

[dim minnow]

maybe Apostasy can be seen as a dark refelction of Zavala

what he could have been if he truly gave into the Witness' coercion

Like Hedon, Nihil also does kind of remind me of an aspect of Calus

[river surge]

Also the strongest

[dim minnow]

it does seem like all three of your Dredgen concepts are meant to be corrupt Guardians

I do wonder how they would turn out if they were other species

like Nihil as a very old Hive warrior

[slim girder]

Jana 14 would be second in line for pinnacle of dark guardians.
Considering she has also revised the book of unmaking into something else.
Instead of viewing pain as journey, this version views pain as a tool to be used on your enemies to achieve your own enlightenment

[river surge]

These dredgens are fr so sith

They love working with alchemy

[oak fog]

From what I understand, the Shadow's of Yor aren't inherently evil but want to master darkness without corruption.

If I went that route, I was thinking their internal struggle is what would initially lead them to the path of a Dredgen however, along the way, that struggle could be what the Darkness leverages against them in an attempt to corrupt them.

[dim minnow]

the whole point of Shin's master plan was to get rid of the corrupt Guardians and ensure that we would be able to wield both Light and Dark without falling to it

given how Beyond Light turned out, it was an astouding success

I like to think that his plan did have a genuine impact

[sick yew]

He do be The Guy™

Killed Dredgen Yor without being a Lightbearer himself, started a secret cult that may or may not paved the way for Lightbearers to also use the Darkness, gave the original Thorn to someone (us) and have it purified and then just bounced to god knows where off Sol

What a lad

[dim minnow]

crazy how such a banger storyline happened almost completely in the background across 4 different exotic quests throughout the enirety of Y2

Malfeasance
The Last Word
Thorn
and Lumina

[sick yew]

The tale of Dredgen Yor alone is quit the story but yeah they expanded it even more somehow

[oak fog]

For sure. Like we saw with Zavala, the Darkness will use anything it can against you so I really want to emphasize that within the narrative.

I find it interesting that they don't choose their names but they hear them in whispers during a ritual.

"He had always thought they had picked their name for themselves. But they hadn't. The whispers had given it to them."

It has to be something deeply personal that only the individual would understand. Being called what troubles you would keep it in the forefront of your mind... So perhaps it's a sort of "test" that forces them to constantly think about it but resist corruption?

It doesn't necessarily track with every named Dredgen we know of but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.

[river surge]

Darkness unlike the light is very persistent

It wants u to utilise it

Learn it

Power of the consciousness gives u an infinite idea how to fully use it

[river surge]

Also

another question

when Maya will lose control of the echo

I dont think we are gonna destroy it

like we did with the navigator

so im curious to see who will claim the echo of command

Cause right now

its kinda over for her

I can imagine the Vex are pretty much waiting for her to somehow get weakened and then kill her

[sick yew]

I mean its entirely possible that the Vanguard just throws it into a Vault and forgets about it

They literally did that with the Crown of Sorrow

[river surge]

The difference between a literal paracausal artifact capable of defeating a literal 4D god

vs a weapon of sorrow

Well it has paracausal powers

but not at the extent of the Echo of Command

[slim girder]

If we could find a way into the 4th dimension it is possible we might be able to physically interact with a member of the nine.
As for what will happen with Mayas echo my money is her pulling a "If I can't have what I want then no one can" move and overloading her echo, destroying herself and the echo with it.

Killing III already damaged it and the being inside it now barely speaks to her. It's more like a weight around her neck now

[remote cove]

Is the weapons of sorrow just normal weapons that have been corrupted extremely far to become a weapon that ends guardians?

[sick yew]

Thorn was that, but it doesnt have to be an originally normal gun I think

[slim girder]

The original thorn was yes.
A weapon of sorrow is a human weapon that has been twisted into something else by hive magic. These weapons possess necrotic properties and a deep hunger.

[sick yew]

Some Weapons of Sorrow are specifically created as such

Okay nvm

Wait what about uuuh the funny rocket launcher

That we made using the death song or what it was called

[slim girder]

Deathbringer?

[sick yew]

That one

That one is technically considered a weapon of sorrow no?

I remember reading about that god knows when

[slim girder]

Gimme a sec and let me check up on that lore.

[sick yew]

iirc it has like the deathsong or chant or whatever the fuck the hive sometimes do in it

[slim girder]

Ah ok I see.
Ok so it's not a weapon of sorrow, it's just a gun infused with the deathsingers song. Wasn't human made to begin with

[sick yew]

But the deathsingers song is sorrow in nature no?

Like same kind of effect

[slim girder]

A weapon of sorrows main characteristic is its a human weapon twisted through hive magic and the "Ritual of unmaking"

[remote cove]

Huh

what happens if we get an lmg to become twisted by hive magic

[slim girder]

Not exactly.
The deathsingers song is just a song that ends in death.
It doesn't posses any kind of poisonous properties or hunger or anything.

[remote cove]

So the thorn we have is not dangerous to guardians yes?

[slim girder]

Yes. Ours is a replica

[sick yew]

Doesnt it like kill entire worlds or whatever

[remote cove]

Damn it

[sick yew]

Ever Thorn we see ingame is a replica

The Original Thorn that was gifted to us by Shin Malphur got purified into Lumina by us

[slim girder]

Not to my knowledge no. It's just a dangerous song used in rituals.

[remote cove]

Damn

I do have lumina

[sick yew]

Might be outdated information then
I thought I remember that it was explained like some world ending song of screams type shit

[sick yew]

Then you have the Original Thorn reformed

[remote cove]

Awe

[sick yew]

The ultimate middle finger to the hive really
We took one of the most feared guns in Lightbearer history into something pure

[slim girder]

It could probably be used in that way and I'd have to check but I can say the deathsong and weapons of sorrow have no connection other than both being related to the hive.
They're entirely different faucets of lore.

[sick yew]

Oh well

[slim girder]

I like the lore of how our guardian felt visibly sick from just holding the original thorn when you read its description

[sick yew]

Checks out tbh

[slim girder]

The box it was in even had hive runes inscribed on the inside to make sure its whispers couldn't tempt anyone

[sick yew]

So that implies Shin knows his hive lore

Or do we know if he saw Eris or some other expert on how to effectively seal it

[remote cove]

Is it weird when I fired thorn at enemies my strand fills fast

Does it have a connection to strand? Does strand have a darker past to weapons of sorrow?

[sick yew]

wdym your strand fills fast?

What

[slim girder]

It's possible. Though he as dredgen vale and some others did decipher the book of unmaking (7th book of sorrow) from runes found in dredgen yors ship above where that final fight happened so it's possible him and the other shadows were already knowledgeable on hive runes.

[sick yew]

Ah

[remote cove]

When I fire the thorn weapon, the replica, my strand super fills faster adding chunks in, making my super ready faster

[sick yew]

But also no Thorn is not Strand

[slim girder]

Thorn does not have a connection to strand.

[remote cove]

Huh

[sick yew]

back when Thorn was introduced in D1 they hadnt even thought of Strand lmao

They just both happen to be green

[remote cove]

Oh

[slim girder]

I think that's just a super energy gain thing tied to your super stat

[remote cove]

Huh

[slim girder]

Strand and the "poison" element from thorn and other weapons of sorrow are different

[sick yew]

Poison = Green
Hive Magic = Green (sometimes)
Strand = Green
None of these corelated with each other directly

[remote cove]

How dark and insane do u need to be to turn a normal lmg into the most horrifying weapon of sorrow

[sick yew]

What lmg are we even talking rn

[remote cove]

Any lmg, what stuff do u need to do to make one into a weapon of sorrow?

[slim girder]

Don't think they're talking about A weapon.
They just want a weapon of sorrow LMG

[sick yew]

The type of weapon doesnt really matter

This isnt Warhammer where your weapon holds power purely by existing and you wanting it to have power

[slim girder]

Human weapon
Hive magic
And undertaking the ritual of unmaking.

[remote cove]

As long as the weapon wasn't already purified right?

[sick yew]

Cant purify something that isnt first corrupted

So yes

[sick yew]

Exception being a gun that is inherently housing the light in some way, those are obviously harder to corrupt

But a normal gun is just a normal gun

[remote cove]

So, if I have a normal human lmg, then I have to do hive magic and do the ritual

[slim girder]

Yes.

[sick yew]

Examples would be the exotic Travelers Chosen, Last Word (at least in lore) and Microcosm with many others out there

[slim girder]

But it is quite a whole quest to do.
It's not as simple as one ritual and you're done

[remote cove]

What would lmg would work in destiny?

[slim girder]

Any as long as it's human

[remote cove]

Idk which lmg is human tho in game

[slim girder]

Ones made by foundries in the city would be a safe bet

You can kind of tell just by design if it's human made

It's quite obvious

[remote cove]

I feel like I'm plotting something so devious

[sick yew]

Basically all of them

Most guns in Destiny are created by the various foundries in the Last City

Veist, Häkke, Suros, Tex Mechanica, the list goes on

[remote cove]

Alright, alright

Heh, heh, heh, heh

Just gotta find my lucky lmg victim

[sick yew]

Theres only a few weapon sets that are confirmed not of human origin
A few weapons in Iron Banner were specifically created by the Eliksni for example

Various Exotics are basically just guns that enemy factions use except we stole them and now use them ourselves such as Skyburners Oath aka the Cabal Slug launcher, Lord of Wolves aka the choice of weapon of Eliksni Captains, The Enigma Glaive which is of Witness origin

[remote cove]

Isn't the enigma glaive uh, only legendary quality?

[sick yew]

Oh right

Yeah but its still not of Human origin

[remote cove]

Huh

[sick yew]

It comes from the Witness

Whether the precursors aka the race of people that make up the Witness used it back in their day or if it was just made sometime during the Witnesses reign is unknown but its not a human design we know that

its constructed in the Enclave aka a pyramid structure

There are Glaives of Human origin tho like the one from Ghosts of the Deep which's name I do not remember

[slim girder]

I think the enigma glaive might actually be from Rhulks world given when we pick up the artefact it was in front of a statue of what looked like rhulks lower half

Obviously there's no way to confirm that though but it's still a point I've wondered about

[sick yew]

Considering Lubraes Ruin uh exists that might not be too far off

Could be the Lubreans used Glaives a lot

[slim girder]

They were definitely a battle focused type of race it seems

Glaives being their weapon of choice

[sick yew]

Whats a sword to use was the glaive to them type shit

[remote cove]

Is the witness's race about Egyptian type inspiration? Their tech feels like Egyptian

And they have a lot of pyramids

[sick yew]

To some degree

[slim girder]

Could be. We really have very little lore on them

[remote cove]

They gotta be Egyptian inspired

[sick yew]

We dont know a whole lot about the Precursors but that what we have definitely points to at least some references akin to the Egyptians

[slim girder]

The pyramid ships themselves having moving corridors, traps and all sorts is even more Egyptian inspiration

[remote cove]

I still wanna find a random lmg and give the sorrow treatment lmfao

[sick yew]

Im thinking of the opening section to Salvations Edge right now which afaik is the closest thing we have to precursor architecture and that does remind one a bit of Egyptian themes

[remote cove]

What race was the witness

[slim girder]

The corpse of nezarec in root of nightmares was in what could be considered as sarcophagus

[sick yew]

They known as the Precursors

[slim girder]

No idea.
We just call them precursors

[remote cove]

Must be an extremely religious and high tech race

To gain such powers

To think in unison

[slim girder]

Have you watched the origin cutscene of how they became the witness?

[remote cove]

Nope

I started this game like maybe a month ago

Maybe

[slim girder]

https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI?si=dIVnYg-PygNRvcBo

Here you go

Give this a watch

[remote cove]

YIPPEE

[slim girder]

This same cutscene is also in the timeline menu at the very start

[remote cove]

Holy shit that is fucking awesome

I love the deep darkened feel of how scary and how extremely dark those people got to chase after the witness

[sick yew]

The Witness in itself is a very cool entity and concept

[remote cove]

Now we need a dlc about Janna-14 becoming an extreme threat

[sick yew]

Its funny how few people picked up on the hints that it was actually multiple entities into one when the signs were there from the first cutscene where it was seen onward

[slim girder]

Chase after the witness?
The witness IS that whole civilisation.

[remote cove]

The mother of sorrows

[sick yew]

Afterimages on the hands, speaking in 'we' and 'us', the fucking faces in the smoke out of the head etc.

[remote cove]

I meant traveler,

But, my question is, where did Janna-14 go

[river surge]

It is Lubrean, The Witness arhitecture is just too old for Enigma to look like it, necrolite is far darker than Enigmas material

[remote cove]

She was evacuated, and made her weapon of sorrow, and, I wonder, if she will make more weapons that need feeding

[slim girder]

She is at large. No idea where she has gone and the last thing we got from her was an audio log next to a corpse she had opened and removed the ribs from leaving a bloody mess.

[river surge]

I believe there was an art director who said that the whole precursors species were based of egyptians

It gives u that old civilisation vibe

Yet so advanced but yet so old

[green cobalt]

wasn't rose what thorn was before it got sorrow-ified or am i just stupid

[slim girder]

Yes

[river surge]

Well not fully egyptians but it directly gives u the idea of egyptians

[green cobalt]

ok nice

[remote cove]

We need an entire dlc based on her

[sick yew]

Yes

[green cobalt]

so rose > thorn > lumina

[sick yew]

Rose became Thorn which became Lumina

Exactly

[river surge]

Exactly

[sick yew]

But the Rose we have is obviously a recreation aswell

[green cobalt]

ty

[green cobalt]

yea

[sick yew]

Cant have the og Rose while having Lumina

[remote cove]

How do I get rose

[river surge]

Lumina is basically the original while the others are copies

[slim girder]

Rose, Thorn, back to Rose, then Lumina

[green cobalt]

[slim girder]

Competitive PvP iirc

Should still be available

[river surge]

Yes it is

I do have it

[remote cove]

Son of a bitch

[river surge]

And its good

[sick yew]

Correct

The Rose you get from comp is a shell of its former self anyway
The Rose you got in the quest to make Lumina was cool

because it was a unique gun with three effect and one combat perk

It only had Outlaw

[river surge]

I didnt play during that time

Sadly

[sick yew]

A barrel, mag and grip perk

Unique in that sense and it felt hella nice to shoot

Then they brought it back and its just a legendary hc with random rolls now

AND IT DOESNT EVEN HAVE OUTLAW

Yes I have personal beef with it

[slim girder]

This is why people still used the opulence one from collections..

[sick yew]

Me, I am people

Or well I would be people if 1. I still played pvp and 2. still played the game to begin with

[slim girder]

It makes sense it's from PvP though.
Rezyl Azzir iirc was a very popular guardian in the crucible and truly cared about the city.
His Rose was of exceptional make.

Though I still find it funny peeps think he's a hunter

[sick yew]

He was a Noble Titan and crucible champion yes

[sick yew]

Honestly I think it goes to show how well the original Thorn story is written because I wouldnt doubt for a second that this belief Dreden Yor being a Hunter is just as wide spread in universe

Obviously the last person to get corrupted by a hive artifact and become a guardian killer is a Noble Titan

But thats exactly who it was

Same goes for Shin Malphur being a Lightbearer
I bet my ass many people in universe think that based on the legend

[green cobalt]

hand cannon leads one to believe he was a hunter

[slim girder]

Originally before we got the full picture people assumed he was a hunter because of the whole outlaw good vs evil cowboy esque story.
Couldn't fathom a warlock or titan acting like that

[sick yew]

Now had Thorn be a shotgun on the other hand

[green cobalt]

✋ 😔 🤚

[slim girder]

Funny enough Yor did use an Auto rifle named Inferno

[sick yew]

I mean that fits the Titan mo

[slim girder]

And that is speculated to have been turned into husk of the pit after it was lost to a hive wizard

Then turned into necrochasm by us

[sick yew]

a Hive Wizard or the Hive Wizard (thorn guy)

[slim girder]

A hive wizard I believe

Not the one who turned Rezyl into Yor

[green cobalt]

crazy we did that

[slim girder]

Though we have discovered the hive weapons master we fought in the last word quest (forgot their name) was supposed to marry the wizard who turned Rezyl into dredgen yor.

We killed that wizard in the thorn quest when making our own so we could use thorns power without the whispers that came from it

[green cobalt]

was the wizard who corrupted Rezyl revered after the fact or was he just random wizard whose act didn't matter to the hive still

[green cobalt]

if the hive even care

[slim girder]

Hive don't really take trophies like that.
They corrupted a guardian so overall that was good for the hive.
And the weapons of sorrow have been seen as the hives attempt to internally corrupt us

Dark children of humanity and the hive even

[tight inlet]

So the marathon preorder stuff has a lore tab that looks interesting.

Wonder what this implies?

[slow berry]

it's for marathon, i'd hazard

we already have a very small connection to Marathon through the MIDA Multitool (and mini-tool) implying that the weapon comes from the marathon universe, and in general with bungie's paraverse concept with the dares of infinity 30th anniversary stuff

[hallow horizon]

But marathon and destiny 2 are not in the same universe, right?

No because it would fuck up the timeline somehow I bet

So how do we have marathon stuff in game or is it just not actually real in game going by lore

[slow berry]

no

[slow berry]

same reason we have any of the eververse collab stuff as usual

[hallow horizon]

Oh wait I forgot we do have other collabs too lmao

[slow berry]

multitool got here from someone using the gun asking to be somewhere else or something around those lines and the forerunner i forget

i didn't pay much attention to it bc i dont like halo

Wonder if the gun heard me when I asked to go somewhere better. Wonder why it led me here. Going to follow its compass tonight. Down below.

[trim grotto]

Marathon and Halo aren't related

I'll explain more in 20 when I get my work break

[slow berry]

oh i know that

i'm just talking about how we have stuff from other games in there

[trim grotto]

The Rover is a clear reference to Pathways Into Darkness specifically, but PiD is in the same universe as Marathon

[trim grotto]

The MIDA gear is suggested to have been acquired via Golden Age experimentation with timelines, but the possibilities are fairly grand.

As for this new stuff? Possibly standard non canon crossover, but it's worth having a think about...

[ember storm]

starhonse coughed it up like a hairball

[slim girder]

So can any marathon lore peeps answer a question for me?
What exactly are these beings supposed to be?

From what I looked up they're called compilers or S'Phtish but it looks like in marathon they have a lot of importance

What's the importance of a character that's being advertised almost as "the big bad" or the thing you'll want to avoid in the game?

What do they do?

[trim grotto]

God it's been a while since I played/researched Marathon

I'll need to re-familiarise myself

The original Marathons can be played on PC for what it's worth by the by

As can PiD

Sarsion and I streamed our playthroughs

[hard sigil]

the S'pht are a race of aliens that were enslaved by the Pfhor, and over the course of the original games were freed by Durandal

generally speaking they were soldiers of the Pfhor and had weaponry and cloaking capabilities

[trim grotto]

If you're wondering, yes, it is intentionally meant to be difficult/impossible to pronounce properly.

[slim elk]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marathongame/images/d/db/M1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080916021903

[dim minnow]

oh so that's what that one Warlock armor set was based on

[slim elk]

They aren't actually anything important. They were the basic enemies

Its an oddity since that thing was showing up even in the first teasers...

But Bungies instead doing that corporate branding-neon square android for basic enemies

[hard sigil]

isn't it just pronounced s'[fit]

[slim elk]

They will be called Spit by the internet I figure pft

[slim girder]

Interesting. Again the trailers including the very first teaser seemed to give these guys a much more important role.
Very "It's coming" kind of threat.
Though didn't bungie say this is supposed to be a complete reimagining of marathon so the S'Phtish could be getting a different role?

Based on @hard sigil is saying they also don't seem all that powerful either just being able to cloak themselves

Do they actually have a purpose of sorts?

[hard sigil]

not outside of being enslaved soldiers

[slim elk]

So the issue is that by the end of the Marathon trilogy you free these guys from the Phfor and wipe out the slavers

[hard sigil]

it could be that they're a clan that went rogue at some point and stayed behind on Tau Ceti

[slim elk]

So they would be allies

Mostly the compliers were an indication a lore terminal was around

[hard sigil]

or something that's happened between the end of the trilogy and this game that's changed our relationship with them

[slim girder]

That's what I'm thinking.
Because here in the promotional material they are painted as a huge threat to avoid or something that while slow is hunting the runners in the area or patrolling high value facilities

[slim elk]

For comparisons sake they were enemies in the first level of Marathon

[slim girder]

So quite the jump in status then.
Regular enemy type to single huge threat

So what was their original role as slaves? And what kinds of things did they do normally?

Are they special in some kind of way?

[slim elk]

Remember your asking for lore that doesn't exist

From what was seen they were "compliers" of data. Hence why always around lore terminals

[slim girder]

I am?
Again I never played marathon so I don't know how much is known about these beings

I would've thought marathon had a story and would've given backstory to the S'Phtish

[slim elk]

Context
Marathon predates Half Life 1

That was the big game that injected story into an FPS

What Marathon had was Durendal and terminals talking about wider scale multiverse gods and existential themes

They didn't spend much time going into the details of phfor society

https://marathongame.fandom.com/wiki/Terminals

Rampancy and the AIs? Sure

Extensive detailed lore on an enslaved Mook that existed as a clue one of these was in the area? Not so much

[slim girder]

So marathon doesn't really have a story? Just lore tidbits littered around the world that still don't really paint a picture?

[slim elk]

There's a story there, but your under the severely wrong impression that figure was of importance

Instead the threat that would what your thinking would be the likes of the Jjaro

Or the W'rkncacnter for that matter

[slim girder]

So the S'Phtish aren't really anything crazy?
Then that does make me more curious as to why the current trailers seem to put more emphasis on them

[hard sigil]

because they look cool

[slim elk]

To give you an idea of the lore importance
The Jjaro created the S'pht

Most likely them showing up more is Bungie desperately trying to show there's more to the game then corporate branding stolen from an artist lol

[slim girder]

Seems like they are the only PvE enemies in this new game

[slim elk]

....
Huh. You really haven't looked at anything have you?

The basic enemies from playtests are UESC androids

[slim girder]

Oh. I swear to god i thought it was mostly PvP with stuff like the S'Phtish being the PvE element

Like PvE would be a lot rarer in the game

[slim elk]

It's an extraction shooter

Always going to be enemy AI scattered around guarding loot sites

[slim girder]

I know i just got the impresssion other players were going to be what you'd engage with normally. I played a lot of the dark zone in the division so i was thinking it would just be less AI enemies and more players instead

[slim elk]

In most cases of extraction shooters the NPCs are cannon fodder to distract and let other groups exploit opportunities

Occasionally you get bosses and tougher forces guarding better loot

In the most basic case
You hear random gunfire that gives away other players are nearby as they engage AI

[slim girder]

Yeah so just like the division then

I don't intend to play marathon but i still thought i'd investigate its lore

[slim elk]

Temper your expectations

In name only was pretty accurate way to describe whats going on

OG games had a "used future" look

[slim girder]

I have seen the old games. Very doom/blood esque

[slim elk]

Compare to the new game

Can see quite the contrast even beyond 30 years difference in graphics

[slim girder]

Yeah. The difference is extremely different

Like extreme is an understatement

[slim elk]

Thus in name only

The complier is the only thing shown so far that actually looks like it's from the original games

[river surge]

Shatter skate is also canon

Guardians actually use it as mobility

But they always bump into walls

Or fall off the map

So the ghosts wont revive them cause of that

And they got scared and wont use it anymore

(Holy headcannon I am making)

[hallow horizon]

Cannon

[river surge]

I just realised

[slim girder]

Guess I'm going to delve into marathon lore tonight

[hallow horizon]

have fun, I have no clue about the lore of that game but it seems cool

[slim girder]

Don't really intend to play marathon but I am curious about its lore and if anything connects old marathon to the current one.
Also would like to hopefully get a bit more context to everything generally