📚lore-discussion

[blazing wasp]

still, that just makes us flexible, reliable, but not outright "strong"

[odd otter]

I wonder which weapon is the most powerful lorewise

[blazing wasp]

we're not the guardian equivalent of brick shithouse

[green cobalt]

golden gun

[blazing wasp]

we're instead the swiss army knife, the jack of all trades

chuck the guardian into literally fucking anything and they'll cobble together some kinda solution

[odd otter]

And at first our body couldnt handle strand and we risked our life or something so im sure its not for everyone either

[blazing wasp]

not because we're strong, but because we're clever, adaptive, quick on our feet

[green cobalt]

first crota fireteam be like

[blazing wasp]

because nobody understood how strand worked

[odd otter]

Which exotic weapon is the most powerful lorewise tho

[blazing wasp]

and finding out for guardians isnt exactly dangerous

[blazing wasp]

unsure

[green cobalt]

cwotuh

[odd otter]

I bet theres at least 1 guy who shot himself with the real thorn for fun

[blazing wasp]

we dont have a lot of lore that pinpoints how "strong" guns are

[blazing wasp]

well, no

because that was kinda confiscated the moment yor died

[odd otter]

Tbh i would have if i found a weird gun

[green cobalt]

yeah like people do in real life

for fun

[blazing wasp]

guardians absolutely do shit like that

[odd otter]

In real life people arent immortal

[blazing wasp]

which is why it was kept hidden

[odd otter]

There were entries talking about guardians jumping off the tower for gits and shiggles

[blazing wasp]

when we found it, we were ment to find it

[green cobalt]

does OG thorn not just outright kill guardians anyway?

[blazing wasp]

ye

thats why it was kept hidden and confiscated

[green cobalt]

so immortality doesn't apply

[blazing wasp]

a guardian wouldnt know that

maybe accounting for guardian idiocy is why it was hidden

[green cobalt]

but then why would they want to shoot themselves anyway

[blazing wasp]

at least among the reasons

[odd otter]

Didnt cayde burn his fingers first time he used golden gun or something

[blazing wasp]

to test it

[odd otter]

Or am i mistaken

[blazing wasp]

thats inexperience with the light, if so

[green cobalt]

they can shoot someone else

[blazing wasp]

and not relevant

[blazing wasp]

they sure can

they can also shoot themselves

not much of a difference in the moment

[green cobalt]

surely it causes pain

[odd otter]

Funny thinking some stupid guardian has himself in his killcount cuz he didnt know how to use his powers

[blazing wasp]

a warlock cut off his own tongue "just in case" after licking a gun

just casually

we're very much used to that kinda pain.

[blazing wasp]

shaxx has a line about a warlock being a danger to himself because he cant use nova bomb for shit

[odd otter]

We still feel it tho

[blazing wasp]

yes

we just... yknow, dont mind it

[odd otter]

Back to my question

Lets find the more powerful gun lorewise

[blazing wasp]

aight fuck it im just gonna go through em all and try to give some kinda appraisal

[green cobalt]

xenophage?

[blazing wasp]

Cerberus: No.

[blazing wasp]

well we dont have a lot of "lore accurate" estimation

likely powerful, a degree of paracausal

bug-powered war crime gun

[green cobalt]

biiig bullet

[blazing wasp]

im already going to be ignoring regular ol weapons

sorry sweet business fans

[green cobalt]

gjallyhoo >>>

[blazing wasp]

necrochasm might be a solid gun, prob not the "strongest"

[odd otter]

I wqs thinking touch of malice since its directly linked to a literal cosmic ideology

[blazing wasp]

we have two guns like that but

unsure if that equates to strength that well

but we can reason that ToM is very strong

same with whisper

oh right, wardcliff coil

didnt that thing make a fucking crater upon its inception?

[odd otter]

No

[blazing wasp]

hangon

[odd otter]

He said if there is he wants it to be named after him

He did say if it failed the world would end tho

[blazing wasp]

well, it was called the "wardcliff incident", so something happens no doubt

gjally is probably up there as among our best weapons

[odd otter]

"Right here I've coupled the emitter to some catacaustic quark-gluon coils, which will not, due to my scrupulous safety checking, create a strangelet that devours the Earth. I cook up some pain in there, the microverse decays, and the result comes out here. If it doesn't work, well, please name the crater after me."

[odd otter]

We are forgetting weapons of sorrow like thorn tho

Killing the soul

[blazing wasp]

well, our thorn isnt anything like THE thorn

probably not as potent as our whisper or ToM.

[odd otter]

Im talking real thorn

[blazing wasp]

ah thought you were on about the guns WE have

[odd otter]

We had it and purified it no?

[blazing wasp]

well among the guns humanity has made... yea prob

[blazing wasp]

had yes

[odd otter]

Honestly ace of spades isnt even that powerful

I think its just the way cayde used it

@blazing wasp OH WAIT

Graviton lance

Shooting mini black holes is crazy

[blazing wasp]

black holes become really dangeorus if large enough to be self sustained

[odd otter]

Each pull of the trigger rips reality apart or something

[blazing wasp]

which graviton doesnt shoot

[blazing wasp]

no its just small black holes

which is really strong but

prob not our strongest.

[odd otter]

How about telesto

[blazing wasp]

harbringers probably not at their full strength, like outbreak's siva

[dim minnow]

Deathbringer is imbued with the Deathsong's power

[odd otter]

Wait i know

A sword

Worldline zero

Step between and cut across timelines

Folk🙏

Or even outbreak perfected

[odd otter]

One reprogramming away from ending the world

Or the vex mythoclast

Erasing people from time

[dim minnow]

I don't think Mytho does that

And I doubt Outbreak can end the world

[odd otter]

A SIVA in it

[odd otter]

And yes it can

A thousand voices could be a pick for most powerful too

[odd otter]

Apparently theres no trigger because you just wish death upon the targets

[frigid sparrow]

The nanites aren't capable of replication at such a large scale

And mythoclast is just a vex weapon that's uniquely made for us

Now, since the vex are builders, I'm sure you could technically deconstruct a world with it after a couple centuries

Also something something about Aunor talking about her praxic blade being able to enflame worlds or something like that

In any case, microcosm is up there in terms of strongest exotic weapon

[odd otter]

Thorn is probably the strongest

Killing not only the person but also the soul and the sense of continuity of the victim

[frigid sparrow]

The original thorn no longer exists anymore so it is no longer in contention

[odd otter]

Still a weapon tho

[frigid sparrow]

Can a weapon that was purified into becoming the exact opposite in its functionality really be called the strongest?

Microcosm shoots out pure light, a beam similar to that of the traveler, which was able to tear a hole through pyramid ships, things that we know are virtually impossible to even HIT

It's like Tusk ignoring D4C Love Train

[green cobalt]

what about wicked implement? Xivu Arath gave it to us

[frigid sparrow]

It's a meme

[green cobalt]

no but like in lore

[frigid sparrow]

It's a gun created literally to prolong war

[green cobalt]

[frigid sparrow]

Think of its functionality

It slows things over time

It's not meant as some god killing device

[odd otter]

Thorn is the strongest its my final say but of course i can be wrong

[green cobalt]

ok but dogshit guns can be good in lore

[frigid sparrow]

It's "MAKE THE PAIN AS PROLONGED AS YOU CAN"

[odd otter]

Thousand voices:

[frigid sparrow]

Xivu literally feeds on prolonged war

[green cobalt]

[odd otter]

One of yall want to actually play destiny rn or nah?

[frigid sparrow]

It's lore and purpose is within its functionality

[green cobalt]

thorn over whisper of the worm(idk if it even does anything in lore)? osteo striga?

[odd otter]

Yes

Thorn not only kills physically but also kills and the soul and the concept of continuity of the target

Thats why a person killed by OG thorn couldnt be revived

[frigid sparrow]

and now nobody is getting killed by thorn because the weapon was carefully reconstructed into lumina

[river surge]

Lets penetrate those pyramids

[green cobalt]

does still hunt just... do that? in lore? like would it let anyone cast "golden gun"?

[frigid sparrow]

no reason why it wouldn't

[green cobalt]

well i figured you'd need to be somewhat paracausal to be able to do that

[frigid sparrow]

there's a reason why the only guns notedly used for non-guardians are kinetic

[river surge]

The amount of lore thorn has

Then u have hawkmoon

[green cobalt]

who up charging they shot

[frigid sparrow]

No Time To Explain, the Thorn copies, Praxic Blade, Sweet Business, Chaperone, Rat King, only real exceptions are Two-Tailed Fox (which is a canonically mass produced weapon) and Telesto (for the meme)

[green cobalt]

osteo striga

[frigid sparrow]

Jana-14 is a warlock

[green cobalt]

but surely anyone can use it

[frigid sparrow]

theoretically yes

[river surge]

Wait

At the end of TFS

Cayde became our Ghost light no?

[jagged badge]

Sort of? Why, where are you going with this question?

[river surge]

I was always confused on how that worked

Cause I never thought that u could give up ur light to revive a ghost or smth

So basically like our Ghost said in the finale, we are all connected

[jagged badge]

Cayde was a very unique case who we’ve never seen before or since

Crow’s wish brought him back but kinda like made out of the Traveler’s Light. I think Ghost even comments on this early in the campaign, that Cayde is almost like a Ghost himself in a way

[slim girder]

Thats..... Not how it works.
Thorn originally would just "eat" a guardians light. Dredgen Yor even said to his victims that their light could only keep it fed for so long.

Weapons that attack your soul directly or continuity are called ontological weapons would be weapons such as the Gorgons gaze from VoG or the powers of some of the awoken techeuns.

In those instances if you a killed by a gorgon you aren't just killed. You are erased from existence, you were never born, you never existed, no one will remember you anymore.

[ember storm]

Cayde wasn’t giving his light, he was made of light and couldn’t use any abilities

Theoretically he just returned himself to the kind of pure light that he was beforehand and just shared some with ghost

[river surge]

So, Cayde basically was unique

Cause in the Traveler in the Pale Heart he was made out of pure light

So he was basically like a ghost but Cayde

[slim girder]

Wish magic also played a part in it

He was brought back in the state crow unintentionally wished him back in. No ghost, No light

Still made of light ofc though inside the traveler. "What comes from the light. returns to the light"

[slim girder]

I just thought about something. So when Bael lost his hand why after he left did we just not take it. Give it to his father or something considering they're in the city.
Like some poor sweeper bot for the barant is going to have to pick up a random hand while cleaning.

[ember storm]

I mean

Would you

Want the severed hand of your evil son

[slim girder]

Idk I just find it weird how in a lot of media every time someone loses a limb they never bother picking it up to hopefully get it reattached.
When you lose a finger IRL you're advised to bring it with you so they can put it back on.

[ember storm]

Ok but are you asking Bael to kneel down and pick it up while running away from the guy who shot him

[slim girder]

Yeah I'm sure thorn probably cauterized that hand but I still just find it funny that we literally just left the dudes hand and lightsaber lying there

[ember storm]

Like isn’t it meant to be a direct Star Wars reference here

[slim girder]

True. Again just a thought I had is all

[ember storm]

Wherein Luke had no chance of retrieving his hand

[slim girder]

Luke lost a hand?

Wasn't that Anakin?

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/skywalker-loses-hand-vader-darth-gif-13525826

It runs in the family

[slim girder]

I see

And it was even the same hand for Bael

[ember storm]

Anakin lost his forearm anyway

[slim girder]

Mace Windu also lost one

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-star-wars-memes-anakin-skywalker-anakin-mace-windu-gif-120293780815148611

[dim minnow]

I do wonder if Bungie will add Bael's Praxic Blade hilt as an ornament

[slim girder]

At some point I'm sure. Though I do have a feeling anything to do with the praxic blade is under some kind of TOS from Lucasfilm.
Like I wouldn't be surprised if they set rules when it comes to the signature weapon of their own franchise

[dim minnow]

It would be nice to have a free ornament for it

[odd otter]

Can the guardian make popcorn with solar light

[dapper kayak]

i think any guardian could

[odd otter]

How about using a stasis crystal as a fridge

[odd otter]

Can a guardian store weapons in lore too and pop em out when he needs?

[queen swallow]

Solar light is not energy the same way fire is. The Vex hobgoblin rifles, however, are

[queen swallow]

Stasis is an ice analog the same way solar is a fire/heat one but they're not the same thing

[trim grotto]

The three weapons thing is kind of a joke more than lore, though you could suggest it's short distance transmat from your ship.

[dapper kayak]

arent all 3 weapons visible on our characters' bodies?

switching weapons mid mission i would say is best explained with short distance transmat

[slim girder]

Ghost lives in our backpack as they say so it's plausible to say ghost will just transmat one weapon to our hands and replace the other as needed

Materials we pick up as well would also go there and such

[trim grotto]

Two. One on our back, one in hand.

[odd otter]

Thats one of the reasons i didnt believe we just carry them

[river surge]

Any lore reason why we dont have double guns?

Or dual wielding

[trim grotto]

One's not enough, and two is too low

[river surge]

😭

[blazing wasp]

Inefficient

[river surge]

What if I use mint retrograde in one hand and psi aeterna iv in another

[blazing wasp]

youd aim like shit and recoil would fuck you up

[river surge]

But the damage

[blazing wasp]

bad recoil management on bullets is enough to disturb the trajectory of the bullet if the rifle has a long enough barrel

the speed of those projectiles are lower

[slim girder]

You can have all the damage in the world.
Won't mean anything though if you can't land a shot

It'd be like those celestial hunters who miss their shots

[river surge]

I am not a hunter

But ur goated for saying that

[slim girder]

[odd otter]

Try that irl and youll understand

[river surge]

Why are we comparing irl to a space magic game

[sick yew]

Space magic game is basically real

[ember storm]

Follow the fallout rule

Anything more than three guns and you’re gonna be encumbered

Comment so good I killed the chat I still got it

[sick yew]

Crowd has left the building

Insane play Waltz

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/kratoss-kratos-banana-gif-8800993167778966245

[odd otter]

Is the worldline zero description accurate? "A single strike can alter the course of history"

[river surge]

Whats worldline zero ? 😭

A single strike can alter the course of history.

It literally says that

tho

[odd otter]

Sword

Pretty old one

[river surge]

I seriously forgot abt it

I only use swords for movement

and praxic blade

😭

[odd otter]

It was from a free exotic quest long ago

[river surge]

I have it

I EVEN HAVE THE CATALYST

💀

[odd otter]

It makes you teleport forward

[river surge]

So basically a dash

thats cool

this sword works great with um

contraverse

wait no

it dosent its arc

😭

[odd otter]

Apparently you cut through timelines and can step between them

When you use it

Tuff

[river surge]

So

lore wise

this sword

[odd otter]

Is amazing

In gameplay its ass

[river surge]

Cutting through space??????????

[odd otter]

Time*

[river surge]

EVEN BETTER

💀

[odd otter]

The dash heavy has good dmg but aside from that its ass

[odd otter]

I wonder if ace of spades is good in lore or if its just a blicky woth optimized reload

[river surge]

It might work

Thorn works

so Ace of Spades should theoretically

So we back to Clovis Bray

that man had to go

also if we bind Clovis to Jupiter WE are cooked

why am I thinking this bad rn

[odd otter]

@river surge

[river surge]

???

[odd otter]

Apparently ace of spades was famous not for being absurdly op but more because cayde was the user

He had it custom made by banshee and named after his son

Paired with his illegal pants it was amazingly powerful

[river surge]

I just only know that the name of gun is after his son

xd

[odd otter]

So he used his custom gun with illegally modified pants for quick draw and that worked very well

[river surge]

Cayde was a menace

[odd otter]

At least well enough to kill world ending threats

[river surge]

no wonder why they killed him

[odd otter]

Couldnt be me

[odd otter]

He was above average by far but not exceptional like the player or ikora

[river surge]

Thats the difference between a warlock and a hunter

Warlocks are always part of something better bigger

Hunters

They miss celestial shots

[odd otter]

@river surge yo

Apparently the ace of spades itself has foresight

[river surge]

At this point ace of spades has time erasure

[odd otter]

“It’s a weapon that sees every shot before you do.”
“It knows when to strike.”

[river surge]

so we are Heimdall

[odd otter]

The gun is, not you

Brokie

Mogged by a gun

[river surge]

Brokie I have almost every skin on it

Heimdall would be jealous

[odd otter]

Your gun has more fits than you

[river surge]

[odd otter]

Help me get the catalyst on it tho

Like right now

Never even tried to get it before

[river surge]

U seriously want me to go play strikes

😭

[odd otter]

Portal yes

[river surge]

also why do u need the catalyst for it

do u even use it?

[odd otter]

Yes

My main weapon

[river surge]

Ace of Spades user

thats actually crazy

and I thought I only use it in pvp

but no

[odd otter]

I use it for pve and barely touch pvp

[river surge]

Its good for pve too

[odd otter]

Come onnnnn

[river surge]

but I prefer heavy stuff

[odd otter]

Help me out

[river surge]

I am rn playing something else

[odd otter]

Then leave and join me

[river surge]

Why is it so hard to go in portal press on fireteam, and them launch the mission

boom 3 players

Also I got the catalyst from Xur

xdddddddd

[dapper kayak]

quickplay has the most shittiest modifiers oftentimes

[odd otter]

Just say ur trash, broke and cant help🫩

[river surge]

[river surge]

Can we agree that Rhulk IS the best villain in destiny?

[queen swallow]

Rahndal the Vandal >>> Rhulk

[river surge]

Randal The Vandal IS the strongest

[odd otter]

Can we estimate cayde's debts?

[trim grotto]

Not really, no. He's had a few centuries to accumulate them.

[odd otter]

If the file is too big for a sentient magic technology to download the file theres something to learn

Accumulate debts and die before you have to pay

So its basically free

[slow berry]

I don't think that's a Ghost reading the file, just a VanNet computer, right?

[odd otter]

Still impressive that the thing cant show a number

Tf does bro owe

https://tenor.com/view/i-got-this-destiny-cayde-gif-8803065

[slow berry]

I'm sure its less one number and more he owes a lot of people a lot of things

[river surge]

Cayde having that generational debt

WITH NO ONE TO PAY IT

XDDD

cause he is dead

Look if I were a guardian I wouldnt pay shit

Im literally saving humanity ass and the universe to pay

Like huhh

[slow berry]

He probably owed like, a lot of guardians.

[ember storm]

He’s funny in a “laughing at weird Reddit posts” way

Not my favorite type of person at all

[river surge]

Cmon

He is just silly

He loves yapping

[ember storm]

I just hate pretentious characters who don’t really add anything to the story

His role as the first disciple we meet could’ve been anybody

[past shard]

Its one of the reasons I would love to see him return because along with him and Nezerec they have a lot to offer to the story

especially in terms of navigating/exploring darkness and the Universe

[odd otter]

He owes to multiple factions including hive, cabal, eliksni, and basically anyone with the intelligence to bargain (not smart enough to not trust cayde)

Anyway

Could a warlock's heal zone heal a regular person? And if yes how good is it?

[trim grotto]

If a Healing Grenade can, we can assume a Rift can too. But we've never seen it in action, to my memory, so we cannot truly answer.
I can offer a written example of a Rift healing a Guardian, however.

[dim minnow]

The implication that Light subclass buffs can be applied to Lightless is pretty funny

We have 1 or 2 instances of Radiant

I like to assume that Overshield is another one that can be applied to others

[trim grotto]

I don't see why not

[dim minnow]

Of course Radiant sets a precedent that other weapon-based buffs could be given to others

[queen swallow]

Support frame auto

[dim minnow]

It's just that it while Radiant and Overshield can be reasonably applied to Lightless (Radiant makes their weapons stronger and Overshield applies a barrier around their body), Restoration and Cure involve actual healing which made it harder to assume if Guardians can just simply apply it to Lightless

Though the end to Edge of Fate changes that

[frigid sparrow]

hyperbuffing a redjack with radiant+devour+amplified+frost armor+Woven Mail

[river surge]

Literally created the Hive

[ember storm]

again that could've been literally anyone else as a first disciple

rhulk added nothing meaningful to that plot

he was sent to do a thing and he did it

he's just the footnote for "the witness wanted to get the krill before the traveler and enlisted the worm gods, rhulk went and told them"

[odd otter]

Why is the crimson an illegal gun

[trim grotto]

Crimson was derived from D1's Red Death.

Vanguard policy urges Guardians to destroy this weapon on sight. It is a Guardian killer.
Only rumors tell of the mad Guardian who fashioned this butcher's tool. But its power is undeniable, and fear is a formidable weapon.```

What any of this actually means isn't really clear. Any weapon can kill a Guardian or a Ghost.

As far as we can tell, it's basically just a gun with a real bad rep. It'd be like using Jack The Ripper's knife or something.

[odd otter]

Isnt there a kill count painted on the gun or something

[trim grotto]

Sure. The guns have been used to kill Guardians.

[odd otter]

There has to be a reason its banned and called a guardian killer. If we follow the simplest logic every gun would be banned

[dim minnow]

based on the little info we have on the guy who made the weapons, I believe he created them to essentially replace his Ghost

[trim grotto]

When we say Guardian killer, the implication is permadeath. Ghosts dead and all. Not just basic Crucible, killed-then-rezzed.

[odd otter]

Ah from what i found its made from the red death's frame and extract vitality from targets just like red death

[dim minnow]

maybe the weapons were made with the ability to siphon Light from Guardians allowing the user to be healed by it

[odd otter]

Its what i found

[dim minnow]

however, Red Death Reformed uses Solar-based healing

basically taking the cruelty away from the weapon

[trim grotto]

It's a little bit Lumina in a way

[odd otter]

“This is a workhorse. Built from the bones of Red Death.”

[dim minnow]

the strange part is that Red Death and Crimson's designs doesn't really give a clear indication as to what makes it a Guardian killer

no clear Hive/Weapon of Sorrow design motifs

[trim grotto]

Yes, it's largely left up to imagination.

[odd otter]

It siphons life energy/light from targets to heal the user

[dim minnow]

but there is nothing on the weapon visually that indicates how it does it

design-wise, it just looks like a serial killer's signature arsenal

[odd otter]

Up to the lore entries ngl, doesnt seem to be linked to the hive

[trim grotto]

Aye, but nothing suggests it's so deadly a siphon as to outright slay a Lightbearer flat out, like Thorn did. And Thorn, and its wielder, became a legendary tale all Guardians know - The Man With The Golden Gun vs Dredgen Yor.

Particularly since we use it in Crucible. Our Thorn, on the other hand, is an intentionally weaker copy construct.

[odd otter]

Maybe crimson isnt complete wipe and just siphons little by little

[trim grotto]

As I said earlier, I personally expect it's a bit of a Jack The Ripper's blade situation. The gun might not be particularly adept at Lightbearer murder, any more than any other gun, but it could simply be infamy. A weapon of dark renown.

Of course we hardly know any of the renown or infamy

So nobody can really say

Despite having three versions of the gun

[dim minnow]

Red Death Reformed's lore tab implies there's something wrong with the weapon

like it has an actual evil power in it

It fights the change. She does not let go. Its shadows burn away, one by one, until none are left.```

[trim grotto]

True, but... it's hard to say what origin it may be. Do you recall Ikora's tale of the island in the WQ CE? Real place, by the way.

[dim minnow]

I forget

[trim grotto]

In short, Ikora visited an island that felt dreadfully wrong. The whole place stank of evil.
This isn't some post-Collapse event, though, it's a real place of history where real people feel incredible unease, like one wandering through Auschwitz may.
The overwhelming presence of cruelty and death left a stain on it.

[dim minnow]

imagine it was Eclipse Energy (very unlikely but would be funny if it was)

what was the island?

you said it was a real place

[trim grotto]

bear with me i need to check the name

Nazino Island

We found a place where lightning had struck more than once, and I dug. Found Human bones; fibula and tibia and long femurs. All with knife marks. Scraped clean of meat. We do not know exactly what happened on Nazino, but Ophi whispered to me what he felt: a faceless machine, grinding over innocent life, lubricated by neglect and indifferent compliance. Indifferent to the suffering it caused. And like a vast slug, it left a stain behind.
But is what I felt Human evil, or universal evil? Is there a difference? Is there a malice which all species of all psychologies could agree upon?
The mark of suffering lingered on Nazino Island. It lingers on the Glykon Volatus. What makes evil stain a place? By what media, in what ink or bile is that evil written?
Which is easier to remember—happiness or suffering? Which stains deeper? On the Moon, we met only nightmares. Do only nightmares linger...?
Ha. Maybe the answer is right beside me. We are all haunted our own Ghost, aren't we?```

[dim minnow]

ok so apparently in 1933 6,700 prisoners were deported there with the goal of forming a settlement

however, they were not properly supplied to handle this and conditions quickly deteriorated with many being cannibalized

and anyone who attempted to flee from the island were killed

[queen swallow]

Yeah, not a good story, that one

Definitely befitting the sense of wrong

[trim grotto]

My point for the reference was... Red Death/Crimson could simply be in that sort of league. A sense of evil or malevolence needn't always be a tangible force.

[dim minnow]

mayhaps a manifestation of the Winnower in a way

[odd otter]

Entries literaly say it drains vitality from its victims

“The Red Death feeds on the vitality of its victims, returning it to its wielder.”

[trim grotto]

I am not denying this

[odd otter]

Im saying it truly has a power other guns dont have and thats what makes it dangerous

Not just reputation

[trim grotto]

I am not denying this either

[river surge]

No one wouldve done better than Rhulk, Nezarec wouldnt have done that for example

Nezarec would absolutely torment them, feed on their fears, do whatever it takes to fully make them his own subordinates

[river surge]

Ok so who do u think its the best

Villain

[odd otter]

The witness

Original hater

[river surge]

The Witness

One purpose

[odd otter]

Hes the reason most shit happened to us

[river surge]

Spend 6 months in the Traveler doing nothing

Arrogance taking over

We enter

Kill it

Over

[odd otter]

6 months according to update time or timeline

[river surge]

Timeline

[odd otter]

He was trying to get the veil or he couldnt achieve the final shape no?

[river surge]

He already was inside

[blazing wasp]

Also the witness is an it

[river surge]

It

Whatever

I simply forget to call it

[blazing wasp]

Happens

Anyway

[river surge]

Yeah

[odd otter]

Isnt he also the reason the hive exists

[river surge]

It send Rhulk to do the job

And Rhulk did it

[odd otter]

He indirectly caused it

[river surge]

Yes

[blazing wasp]

It probably could've enacted the final shape faster, but wanted to make the traveler suffer

[river surge]

Exactly what I said abt arrogance

[blazing wasp]

Its more malice

[odd otter]

Well he wanted vengeance over control i think

Since according to his people the traveler abandoned them

Id leave too if the people im helping try to end the world

[river surge]

The Traveler didnt btw

They seeked a greater purpose

Which The Traveler wouldnt allow it

[blazing wasp]

Not to be that person repeatedly but, it's not a he

[odd otter]

They alreaddy wanted to achieve the final shape so the traveler didnt like that and left

[blazing wasp]

Its a relevant difference too

[odd otter]

Nah not really

[river surge]

Yes

[odd otter]

Woulda left too

[blazing wasp]

...deeply concerning but I'm gonna assume ignorance over malice here

[blazing wasp]

It was leave or effectively doom existence

[odd otter]

More like ignoring instead of ignorance

[blazing wasp]

Right.

I don't think I'm comfortable talking to you anymore, I'll go somewhere else

[dim minnow]

the Traveler was legit squirming while being held down the entire time

[river surge]

I have already mentioned abt The Witness and its arrogance and malice

Abt it

[dim minnow]

it wasn't until TFS where the Traveler was finally starting to tire out

[odd otter]

Maybe the traveler was fighting back

[river surge]

It was

[dim minnow]

that's what I was just saying

[river surge]

The Final Shape happend in that cutscene where it finalized Earth but rhe Traveler revert it back

[odd otter]

Why did we wait so long to act up tho

[river surge]

"You still persist"

[dim minnow]

we had to wait for Crow to get to the Pale Heart

[river surge]

Cause we had no way inside

Crow went inside

[dim minnow]

and we had to actually prepare for going in there

[river surge]

And thats when

And we had to prepare

[dim minnow]

the Witness briefly enacting the Final Shape was the sign that we couldn't wait any longer

[river surge]

Exactly

In those 6 months it basically tired the fuck out of The Traveler

[odd otter]

Isnt your pfp jokic

[dim minnow]

and the Witness needing to hold the Traveler down was pretty much the main reason it couldn't just get rid of us immediately

so it sent legions of its forces and tried to coax us into joining its side

[dim minnow]

Zavala with Joker makeup

[odd otter]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-what-shocked-nikola-jokić-remove-mic-gif-17010548

[sick yew]

How the fuck do you see Jokic in that

[odd otter]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-basketbal-joker-joker-jokic-gif-15393031

They call him the joker

[sick yew]

They do be doing that

[odd otter]

Is there instances of guardians being paired to a ghost without dying beforehand?

[hard sigil]

nothing in the traditional sense

[trim grotto]

don't any of you say it

i can feel it coming

[slim girder]

Only one instance and that's Shin malphur and Jaren wards ghost. Although it's not the full pairing with the ability to resurrect.
There is recent lore about Osiris and a ghost named Peach though that seems like it could go somewhere

Peach keeps bugging Osiris

[trim grotto]

damn it retro i knew it

you have betrayed me

[odd otter]

They didnt get paired at all, shin just worked with jaren's ghost because jaren couldnt be revived due to thorn

I wonder if getting a ghost is simple revival+"memory wipe" or if ur a whole other person

[trim grotto]

Destiny enjoys a healthy mixture of both nature and nurture. So it's sort of both.

Uldren and Crow, as an example - before their memories joined - grew into very similar people. At their core, they were the same. That's their nature. But their memories and experiences shaped them into different people, which is their nurture.

Like a split timeline, in a sense.

[odd otter]

Im talking conciousness

Is it still the "same person"

[trim grotto]

Well, that's what I was talking about.

[trim grotto]

The core of who they are remains the same, that's their nature. Then their experiences shape them, nurture.

Cayde described such things in his journals, how he feared he would develop into a very different man without the grounding words of his journal.

This wasn't related to the Light, simply to Exo resets, but the concept is the same.

In the end, it'd still be Cayde at his core, but experiences shape a person.

Another example is Maya Sundaresh. So many versions of her lived fulfilled lives with Chioma Esi. One, despite being the same person, instead became a megalomaniacal Conductor.

Once more, not resurrection, but it's a consistent mirrored theme that comes up often enough in Destiny.

[odd otter]

I mean do you feel some kind of continuity? Is it just like forgetting everything to this point?

[trim grotto]

I think that simply depends on your perspective, honestly.

Ana Bray reshaped herself in the image of her past. In her own mind, she is the Ana Bray of the Golden Age, just with some memory loss.

Typically however, as is the Guardian code, Guardians actively avoid seeking out their past. They consider themselves to be different people.

[odd otter]

They avoid their past as in its theirs but they dont want to remember

Feels like a simple memory wipe upon first resurrection

[trim grotto]

It is. It's just that experiences shape a person into someone new. Old lives mean old biases, old grudges. Old hates. No memories means someone can see the world anew, form new opinions, grow differently.

The Witch Queen CE lore had a lot of discussion on this kind of topic

Very interesting philosophy

[odd otter]

Savathun didnt seem to have forgotten anything

[trim grotto]

Oh, she forgot it all. But that's the point of the campaign. She tricked us into returning her memories for her.

That's what we did in Witch Queen

[odd otter]

So ur telling me there isnt even a handful of guardians who want to get their memories back

[trim grotto]

Well, sure there is. Like I said, Ana Bray sought it out - she was lucky enough to be resurrected wearing her old name badge, though.
But the Vanguard discourages people from seeking out their past lives.

[hard sigil]

and like. it's not like it matters a whole bunch

you're a different person already by the time you probably get interested

[odd otter]

If i was a guardian id want to remember even if just for my family

[trim grotto]

Would he still arrive at the same unshakeable conviction that they all have to go?

Or would he be missing some irreducible qualia, some pearl grown around the grit of first-person suffering?

O, Traveler. I see now!```

[hard sigil]

yeah but they're not your family

[odd otter]

?

[hard sigil]

you're fundamentally a different person from who you used to be

[odd otter]

Still same conciousness and all, its just a comolete wipe of memory and experiences

[hard sigil]

and isn't that what makes a person themself?

[trim grotto]

Yes, some may. That's why Cayde kept his journals. Through nothing but old writings, he formed this idea of a wife and child that he never actually knew in this life. But he let that journal shape him.

Many may not. They have no attachment to memories they don't have of a life they do not live anymore, so why would they care?

[odd otter]

Soul

I feel like guardians still have a sense of continuity like they know they forgot

[hard sigil]

eh some guardians are very different from who they were previously

[odd otter]

Influenced by people

Even with memories you change over time

[hard sigil]

and become a different person

[trim grotto]

And that person may not care about their old life.

[hard sigil]

anyway it's entirely subjective

[trim grotto]

Some people may not like what they find, even if they were to look.

[hard sigil]

not like there's a right answer either way

[odd otter]

I wanna see eliksni lightbarers lowkey

[hard sigil]

but personally I feel like I'd be invading on someone else's life if I were to investigate

[odd otter]

For me it would be like asking your brother what you ate yesterday cuz u forgot

[trim grotto]

One would imagine they're the most likely pick, were another to gain it.

[hard sigil]

lightbearer vex 2028

[odd otter]

Fuh naw

[trim grotto]

Many amnesiacs in the real world pretty much drop their old lives, even old relationships - even spouses.

I, personally, am very detached from my family. Not through poor relationships, but I am just a fairly emotionally detatched person.

I imagine I wouldn't feel any desire or care to seek it out.

Not that I can say for sure, of course.

[odd otter]

I am too, i just dont like losing what i built even if its a previous life

[trim grotto]

Well, it also depends on how long ago you died. You could have been before the Golden Age, thousands of years ago.

What would you find? What could you find?

You could waste your new life searching for an old one that no longer even exists.

[odd otter]

Imo a successful life is building a family

[hard sigil]

it'd be incredibly hard if you were just like. a regular guy

Micah and Anna have good fortune because they were both in Braytech files

[trim grotto]

That family may be long dead. The buildings they lived in could have crumbled and been built over, or blown away. Lightbearers may come from any period spanning thousands of years.

[hard sigil]

millenia in some cases

wait that just means the same thing

[trim grotto]

Thirteen thousand years, in one.

[odd otter]

Id like to know what my previous self achieved still

As whatever philosopher said, the more you know the more you suffer or something like that

[trim grotto]

Sure. You'd be going against the Vanguard, but nothing would stop you, really.

[hard sigil]

and it's not like they'd really care

[odd otter]

And another one said knowledge is power

[hard sigil]

it's just a suggestion mostly

[odd otter]

They would care if you end up being some serial killer ghost hunter

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/guidlines-pirates-of-the-caribbean-hector-babossa-georffrey-rush-gif-7844913

anywho time for shower and sleep

ciao friends

no wait one last thing

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/r0y4ll/shin_malphur_an_outlier_for_all_the_wrong_reasons/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
@slim girder you

[slim girder]

Why y'all interrupting my apothecary diary watching

[odd otter]

The plot for all servants that arent maomao

[jagged badge]

You definitely need the first

https://tenor.com/view/love-you-gif-15339771503652471385

[river surge]

Clovis Bray files

[hard sigil]

it's just gonna be crimes against humanity

[river surge]

experiments on humans, crimes, trying to destroy The Traveler, trying to destroy Earth

[slim girder]

Clovis knows an immobile giant head can't really be put on trial because I'm pretty sure after the heinous things he's pulled guardians would have been after his head if he was still living in a human or even exo body

Maya is protected by her echo, Clovis despite being a genius scientist doesn't have any paracausal means to defend himself

He's as powerless as someone like Bael to a single shot from a thorn

Though since banshee has had a voice change there's been talk that Clovis might also return at some point given how they are linked. I even speculated a while back how pre EoF during the chess puzzle a pawn piece was found right in front of him on Europa

[ember storm]

What if shin died an got an actually real ghost and he was just a different person after

[river surge]

Clovis return in big 2026

and I am buying Shattered Cycle or The Alchemist 100%

[odd otter]

Release the bray files

[hoary bolt]

hey this is a lore based question

what happened to solone?

all i know is she got partially taken when neptune(?) returned but i havent seen what happens to her at the seasons end

[cold edge]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-fortnite-griddy-zavala-destiny-gif-26547077

is this canon

[jagged badge]

Titan, not Neptune

[hoary bolt]

thus the (?) its been ages since i played red war lol

[jagged badge]

My memory on Season of the Deep is a little fuzzy but I believe she resists Xivu Arath’s influence at the end of the season. Since then, she helps in Episode: Heresy, notably assisting us and teaching us how to control Taken power somewhat

[ember storm]

All of Fortnite is technically

So yeah

There’s also nothing stating Zavala hasn’t busted a move like this in universe

He has a Shaxx exercise mixtape in his office

[lofty badge]

Do we know how the pikers got hold of Stasis and Strand weapons? From house Salvation and the Imperium?

[trim grotto]

Likely, but the weaponry is becoming more common. Even standard City foundries produce Strand weaponry now. It would only take a few examples to reverse engineer it, I'm sure.

[lofty badge]

Cool!

[past shard]

How are foundries making these elemental weapons? (Particularly The Darkness variants). Are They imbued with Para-Causality or do they just not work that way?

[slim girder]

Darkness is available to really anyone. Light is much more exclusive though

You can take darkness sources and manipulate them whether you are a paracausal being or not which is what the foundries have been doing

Stasis and strand are just different energy sources and have applications

[past shard]

I guess the difference between those who manipulate Stasis and Strand vs Para-causal beings is that one makes it and the others use an existing source?

[slim girder]

Yes

[dim minnow]

Pikers even got House Exile stuff

[slim girder]

Like bael uses stasis crystals to cool the eclipse core

[past shard]

WHY IS THE MK FAST TALKER OVERHEATING!?!?!

is the best argument is that The stasis bullets are causing friction?

[trim grotto]

Could be that the heat is from the firing mechanism rather than the shots.

Also, as a Balanced Heat Weapon, it does have efficient cooling and low heat gen.

[past shard]

The real question becomes why don't we super cool every weapon with stasis now?

[queen swallow]

Because, as far as I'm aware, Stasis is only an analog for ice. It isn't actually cold itself

Mael will probably refute me for this but that's my understanding given that Solar isn't actually heat

[past shard]

Its still entropy negation

If bael can do it to ship thrusters, we should be able to do it in a similar way

[trim grotto]

Solar can and often is heat as part of its nature, and Stasis is cold as part of its nature. It's just, y'know. More complex than hot and cold or fire and ice.

I imagine there's a mild risk of freezing over your guns mechanisms and destroying it too haha

[past shard]

Devil adversary argument is that using more paracasualty is difficult since the weapon in our hands is already likley doing something quite paracsusal

[past shard]

yeah this makes since too.

[queen swallow]

I thought Solar wasn't "fire"/"heat" because of something with the Vex Hobgoblin rifles? Or am I just misremembering that conversation?

[trim grotto]

Solar, Void, and Arc, can be considered umbrella terms. Gravity is under Void, but Void also emcompasses the concept of drawing life from a victim.

[past shard]

it seems like rapid molecular movement

[trim grotto]

Solar isn't strictly flame either, as we see with, say, Healing Grenades

But heat and flame is still a big part of Solar in many cases

[past shard]

I used to say void was gravity but saying space-time also helped pin the the whole concept together

[hollow fern]

Guys I have a head cannon about oryx and the winoet
I feel like he would talk to oryx by possessing one of his taken he possessed one of oryx's ogres un the books of Sorrow

[slim girder]

This is how the witness also spoke to xivu arath but it was a knight used instead.
Hive have often used living vessels to convey messages.

Even as recent as episode heresy Xivu arath sent a hive champion to meet the echo of oryx and savathun but it spoke with her voice

[slim girder]

It's more about the difference between solar light vs solar energy.
Solar energy would in its basic form be things such as fire and heat.
Solar light however is according to Osiris the purest expression of the travelers light and both can burn and grow with no accelerant but also heal/cure what it comes into contact with

[lofty badge]

Any lore reason as to why a lot of renegade cabal still hang out at Firebase Hades in the EDZ or is it just the boring reason of "cause gameplay"?

[sonic sun]

renegade cabal on the EDZ?

you mean the red legion?

[lofty badge]

yes

[slim girder]

I think they meant renegade as in non affiliated cabal. Not renegade as in the imperium cabal

[lofty badge]

or red legion remnants

[lofty badge]

Yes this

hostile outlaw cabal who not part of the Imperium nor with our allied cabal

[sonic sun]

juts like the raids we got back from Destiny 1, a lot of old content is treated as a "moment in time"

[lofty badge]

kinda a bad lore reason..

[sonic sun]

how so?

[slim girder]

As for reason that's really just a gameplay thing. Sadly bungie can't really update the game to match the story because otherwise some areas would literally have absolutely nothing in them.

Not everything will fit into the current lore

[lofty badge]

not even any headcanon reasons of your own?

🤔

[slim girder]

I would assume some red legion still remained but that's it.

[sonic sun]

the nine dragged them forward in time to keep the status quo

[slim girder]

Nowhere near enough to actually cause a problem

[lofty badge]

lol

[lofty badge]

yeah makes sense

• we have the psion conclave with cloning tech who could be sending out troops to old areas like nessus and EDZ

[slim girder]

Again bungie can't really give us reasoning for every aspect of the game to match the current lore. It's cool to speculate about it to apply reasoning but at the end of the day it is just part of video games and older content really

You go to the EDZ you'll see red legion remnants. That's basically it

Caiatls loyalists, the shadow legion and now the barant imperium are the main cabal factions in destiny's current story

[lofty badge]

aye

[slim girder]

I could see more lore from the totality division as well in the future but not anything massive.

[sonic sun]

Totality Division vs Psion Conclave could be kinda cool

[lofty badge]

true

i also feel like the Psion Conclave are too engulfed in darkness now or well something like it

given one of their members can command Dread and Taken

[sonic sun]

I hope we get more dread content eventually but I'm not sure how we would

unless the pale heart generates them automatically i guess

[slim girder]

Dread aren't just in the pale heart. We had them in sundered doctrine in savathuns throne world, the psion rebellion leader yirix has control over some dread and in heresy we had a taken dread subjugator

[sonic sun]

yes but they're an incredibly finite resource, it'll be unreasonable to believe there's enough of them for years worth of content unless more dread are being made

[slim girder]

Obviously there's no confirmation of this but I believe dread are made using DNA from different races save for weavers and attendants.
Like subjugators are made using a "blueprint" taken from rhulk, tormentors are as some of them say an "imprint of nezarec"
Husks are fallen that are seemingly implanted with what looks like a hive worm. And the grim are from an unknown species.

The witness would personally craft dread if they had a specific role to fill but as for the others it could very well be an automated process

For example the subjugator we faced in heresy was the first subjugator and was personally crafted by the witness

[sonic sun]

Grim are repurposed dissenters broken down into pieces so small they don't recognise themselves anymore

[slim girder]

Some are. But there's lore stating they are made from a unknown species.

[sonic sun]

wouldn't the precursor species that made the witness be unknown to us?

we never have and likely never will see a single one of them, just statue prisons and the sum of their parts

[slim girder]

Not like that I mean a truly unknown race of flying beings like no prior knowledge or anything is known about them but all we know is that in killing the grim we are permanently removing any trace of them from the universe after the witness was done with them long ago

Each grim we kill leaves less and less of a memory or who they once were

[sonic sun]

also, our first run-in with weavers and attendants has Ghost comparing them to psions, of all of the Dread I'd be most confident about their "origins"

[slim girder]

Oh yeah the first thing bungie said about them when they were revealed was that they were reshaped psions.

That was confirmed from the very beginning

[sonic sun]

but even if every single one of the Dread is confirmed to be a reshaped or otherwise retooled part of enemies we still actively face, we've lost their creator in the same DLC that introduced them

until something tells us someone else has started Dread production, they should be treated as the finite resource that they should reasonably be

[slim girder]

Again if a dread had a specific role to play then I'd assume the witness would personally be involved in creating that dread. But I wouldn't believe the witness created every single dread by hand one by one, there would have been some automation to it given how dread are just "imprints" taken from other beings

Yes they are definitely finite but I don't think they are in the same boat as the scorn where the source for making more is completely gone

[sonic sun]

of course, I don't believe the witness sat there for months just building it's army one by one whilst it waited for us. What I do believe is that any automation of their production would've been directly tied to the witness even if it wasn't an active and conscious effort on it's part (I'd find it hard to believe the Witness made any Dread factories for instance)

[sonic sun]

100% the scorn should not be showing up again any time soon

[slim girder]

Yeah it is still a mystery where the dread really stand in Destiny atm. We can speculate and there has been content on them of course after the final shape outside of the pale heart but in the current fate saga we have yet to see them.
We've had the fallen, vex and cabal now and the hive are now making their first appearance in the new saga with shadow and order coming in a few weeks.

After that who knows where the story might go with shattered cycle and then the alchemist

Also yet to see the taken as well

Considering we just got a message from drifter about the Lord of every nothing in this expansion

[sonic sun]

I could see either the Lord of every nothing or 6 taking over charge of the Dread if they get a chance

I'd believe 6 would try and copy the witness's homework if it gets a chance

[slim girder]

6 isn't interested in the witness considering they're dead now. Sword logic and trying to work out some ascendant plane shenanigans is its goal even though it doesn't fully understand it.
And Bael is their tool for doing that

VI has had a lot of time to observe everything that's happened around saturn with oryx, the dreadnaught, the taken, the echo of oryx and now this new taken leader the lord of every nothing.

It still doesn't fully grasp the concept of sword logic, death and ascendant planes though

[sonic sun]

but 6 is very interested in the work of Oryx, who died long before the Witness

[slim girder]

All it really knows is death and violence will get them where if wants to go which is why VI is normally shouting every time they speak.

[slim girder]

Yes because oryx was right next to Saturn and even if he died his dreadnaught was still there for years rotting, taken and hive roaming around

The dreadnaught even without oryx is still a massive place of secrets considering it is oryxs flagship where he housed everything he had gathered from his travels

[sonic sun]

not just that but the witness aimed to transmute the entire universe into something else, not unlike the work of an Alchemist

[slim girder]

The nine did observe the witness but they didn't really take that much from it really. And the witness didn't even interact with the nine either.
But now that it's dead the nine, specifically the outer orbits are out trying to "free" themselves through means of creating black holes or other singularities.

[sonic sun]

surely the ability to transmute the entire universe into whatever form they wish would be a useful power for such a goal?

[slim girder]

Not exactly because the nine aren't trying to transmute the universe.
They want to create a singularity to escape through to a place where they decide their own existence and maybe even create their own worlds. Calcifying the universe isn't the goal.

Black holes are one of the ways they attempted to do this on kepler

A black hole would be the kind of singularity they need

Even if it took half of Sol with it they wouldn't care

Each outer orbit has a different idea but VI believes that by killing and creating an ascendant plane/rift it'll be able to escape, but again it doesn't quite understand this concept of how it works normally

VIII instead is studying the veil for a solution

We haven't really heard anything from VII though

[lofty badge]

mhm

of all the inner orbits, does Four care about us the most with three gone now?

[slim girder]

They don't exactly care about us specifically but are so far the most cooperative out the members we've spoken with. They were close to III so I guess this is their way of getting back at the outer orbits for their act of causing IIIs death

They want to help us stop this extinction level event

[lofty badge]

yeah and wait the outer orbits are the reason?

i thought the blame was on the Conductor

unless did they manipluate her to do it?

[slim girder]

They set up the events that led to it. Maya ofc didn't know about this but this was the outer orbits doing.

Maya wouldn't say no to something that could possibly give her what she wanted. And the death of III could start a chain reaction as well as create a big enough singularity should that black hole be allowed to grow

[lofty badge]

bet

also any Thories on that new alien creature that has been trying to speak with Lodi

i wonder if by binding it we can replace III

and heal earth

just a guess

of course

[slim girder]

No idea really. All we know is it has a big significance and it was responsible for killing many fireteams since while they were hunting it ghauls cage cut off their light leaving them defenceless

As for what it is according to Lodi he claims his vision is sideways and he's trying to claw his way out or something

It also goes by the King of Chicago

[dim minnow]

I'm not sure if that title is referring to the creature itself

[slim girder]

Yeah idk either I'm just going off what Bael called it in that audio log from the dungeon iirc

[dim minnow]

There is a lore tab for a sparrow that is on Ishtar

Though said sparrow isn't even visible ingame yet

So I don't think I can mention it any more than that

[river surge]

I think King of Chicago is actually a person

not the monster

I am 100% sure I have seen on Byf video saying its a person

now idk

a lightbearer to be more precise

Also what happend to the Great Lakes

did the water turn into some kind of thing

or what

did it dry out

[dim minnow]

Places all over the Earth are out if wack

Even before III's death

Many places are dried up like the Panama Canal which became a ravine

Some places like Hawkesbury are flooded

[river surge]

Yeah

[river surge]

I just realized Thorn had a fucking questline

[hollow fern]

Guys am I dumb 😅
I just realised that the shooting range is where the zero hour boss fight happens

[dapper kayak]

i also never realised that

[hallow horizon]

I realized that immediately

because that fucking boss fight isrgjoimweodj

so many of my solo runs on zero hour have been fucked over by that

[hollow fern]

Cat on keyboard moment

[hollow fern]

Dam that's sucks

[hallow horizon]

I am the cat

:)

[hallow horizon]

yah

[hollow fern]

🤣🤣

[hallow horizon]

anyways lorewise do the enemy forces just give us free units to test our builds on or what

like what's the practice range lore

[dim minnow]

They might just be simulations

[hallow horizon]

oh, boring

[frigid sparrow]

The ones we see in our room are holograms, and it was the same deal for the ones on the leviathan as well

[ember storm]

And it fucking SUCKED

[past shard]

Speaks a-lot to the ability of the last city and its tech. The imperium got crazy upgrades because of all our stuff.

[slim girder]

I loved it

Crucible part aside. That took a while

[ember storm]

you're going to use void HC in crucible and you'll LIKE IT

[slim girder]

Jokes on you I didn't.
The quest specified hand cannons or void damage with void hand cannons granting the most progress.
So it was a dust rock blues and Luna's howl for me

[river surge]

Bro

I just realised that Rhulk legs are so strong they could literally cut in half a guardian

[unreal kestrel]

Does Ikora have multiple supers?
I saw her nova bomb an ogre then use chaos reach on a hive portal not even half a minute later.

[sick yew]

Having multiple supers is not uncommon for a skilled guardian

[unreal kestrel]

Im thinking of multiple supers equipped simultaneously

[sick yew]

Ikora has been known to use each element besides Strand I think and even that one she probably has down these days

It doesnt really work like that in the lore

You dont "equip" a super

You channel the light with whatever element you can

Its not how it is ingame where you have to "select" an element and stick to that ones abilities

[unreal kestrel]

So shes the game equivalent of prismatic 3.0 without transcendence

[sick yew]

Prismatic is its own thing even in the lore because that one actually combines various elements specifically said in a way that no other Lightbearer besides us can
But in essence yeah

A really skilled Warlock can just shoot an arc laser with one hand, throw a nova bomb with the other allthewhile standing in a Well of their own making

[trim grotto]

(read: ikora and osiris and pretty much nobody else)

[sick yew]

Aka the Nerds

[fluid peak]

Shes using strand in the ending TFS cutscene iirc

[sick yew]

Ah

[river surge]

She does

[sick yew]

Welp there we have it then

Tbh it was just a matter of time and even without any lore related mentions its very believable that she has learned it by now

[river surge]

Ikora is the strongest in the vanguard

so theres no doubt that she wouldnt have learned it by now

She can most likely use prismatic now

[fluid peak]

Eh no

Prismatic was a special case for us being in the right place at the right time

[slim girder]

The only element we have yet to see her using is stasis but she did teach it to Zavala.
Her most recent endeavour is with strand and she seems to be doing just fine with it by the looks of it

[slim girder]

Prismatic is presumably known by multiple guardians now. Ikora weaving different elements together is a part of that and some guardians can utilise multiple elements.
The transcendence part of it though is exclusive to us I believe which is a true harmony between light and dark

Though I would imagine given time some might also one day be able to master that harmony

[ember storm]

Transcendence is actual prismatic

That’s what the rifts in the pale heart were doing

Using multiple elements isn’t prismatic, there is a difference between just rapid firing and actually using transcendence

Anyway do you think shadow the hedgehog could solo the witness

[frigid sparrow]

I like to make the case of gameplay meeting lore in terms of prismatic where because Dual Destiny is a 2-player mission that rewards a prismatic-only item, at least 2 guardians have learned prismatic and with that being the case there's probably more

[ember storm]

The mission says your bullets are completely harmless against your teammate for the entire mission until Savathun brings up the possibility they’re not which only then lets you kill them

[river surge]

Well

It fairly obvious

That we can kill each others during firetean missions

[slim girder]

I wonder what those other legends Bael was talking about in one of the dungeon audio logs could be.

Don't recall ever hearing about them though there is so much lore in this game I can't remember all of it and eventually stuff gets pushed out.

[river surge]

What legends

Legend of Acrius

[dim minnow]

reminds me how Drifter mentioned all of these cool places he had been to to Shin that we get no info from except for some stuff with the 4th Tomb of Nezarec

[dim minnow]

it's in one of the Equilibrium dungeon lore collectibles

Bael thinks that he could fond some useful stuff from these old stories

[river surge]

Depende on what are in these legends

If there is anything related to some ancient powers or anything

Then it might be useful for him

[dim minnow]

tbh, they just sound like children's tales like the Rat King

though it seems like the King of Chicago will go somewhere given what Lodi told us

[river surge]

King of Chicago is a lightbearer

[dim minnow]

possibly

I know there's a lore tab for a sparrow that seems to have an excerpt from this legend

however, said sparrow isn't even visible ingame yet and can only be seen on Ishtar

so I don't think we can really discuss it in depth yet

[river surge]

It is

In one of the lore tabs it is explained that King of Chicago protects Chicago from the monsters

That are roaming it

[slim girder]

No spoilers if it's not in game yet

[river surge]

It is in the game tho

[dim minnow]

you can't find it in collections

it is only visible through Ishtar

[slim girder]

^^^

[river surge]

Then I was wrong

Sorry

I never knew Ishtar shares stuff that are not in game

[slim girder]

Ishtar is lore from almost everything including stuff that is datamined

[river surge]

Oh ok

[slim girder]

Since it's looking at the api even if the game doesn't have it, it and the lore tab is still in the api so it goes on ishtar

[river surge]

To be honest

I looked to be both Ishtar

And Byf video

And went with the fact that its in the game

Byf has a video abt the King of Chicago, Lodi and Chicago

So thats why I said its in the game

Cause I know Byf only speaks with stuff that are in the game

[slim girder]

The "King of Chicago" name is in the game but that is it. Byf didn't show anything else on that front because otherwise he'd be talking about stuff not in game yet

[river surge]

Welp I spoiled the whole thing by accident 😭

[slim girder]

Though about those other legends idk if it's just me but it reminds me of that vanilla D2 adventure on Io where our ghost gets hijacked and starts spouting locations like mercury and the mars ice caps.
Places we would eventually end up going to in the future

[trim grotto]

Scraped from the API. Bungie have full capability and control over whether that content is Classified or not.

Datamining is a different thing.

[river surge]

Wait

[slim girder]

Ahh I see

[river surge]

BRO

[slim girder]

My b

[river surge]

I am lost

😭

Lets not speak abt this King anymore

[trim grotto]

Do you have a map

[river surge]

Map?

[trim grotto]

you said you were lost

[river surge]

Ohhh

[river surge]

Also Mael, Hakke created the um The Icebreaker?

[slim girder]

Correct

[trim grotto]

Häkke Heavy Industries, to differentiate between Golden Age Häkke and City Age Häkke

[dim minnow]

and Golden Age Hakke seems to have something to do with Chicago fuckery

maybe

[river surge]

So they related to Chicago

[dim minnow]

you know, I wonder if Bael is gonna try and get Hakke to work with him

assuming they aren't already

[river surge]

So they all connected

Hakke, Bael, Lodi, King of Chicago, The Monster, VI, and whatever its under Chicago

[trim grotto]

and most importantly, Dahlia, the true villain behind it all

[river surge]

Who

????

[trim grotto]

smh my head you don't know destiny's most influential character

[dim minnow]

Arcite's GF

I wonder how they're doing

[river surge]

On god I dont know

😭

[dim minnow]

you know that Redjack frame with the horns?

[river surge]

Yes?

[dim minnow]

the one that's with Shaxx all the time?

[river surge]

WAIT

[dim minnow]

Dahlia is another Redjack who is Arctie's girlfriend

[river surge]

[slim girder]

Bro doesn't know arcite the goat

[river surge]

Now I know

[trim grotto]

Arcite and Dahlia are a pair of veteran Redjacks, far outliving other Redjacks. They have tried to sync with modern Redjacks to help make them more effective, but their systems are relatively archaic, and their data is incompatible.

Arcite was removed from duty to become Lord Shaxx's aid and quartermaster.

[river surge]

Poor Arcite

He now has a higher task

[slim girder]

Don't think they would. Bael is already known as the son of a the tex mechanica president so I'd imagine he's under watch atm by the hidden.
Any foundry business could also be being monitored

[trim grotto]

Some people of the community back in Y1 made a bunch of wild posts about "the Frame uprising!11!!11!" because they misunderstood some basic lore

good times

[slim girder]

I remember that lol

The frames are cool peeps

[river surge]

The Hidden are the CIA of Destiny basically

[dim minnow]

true, but there are already people within the city working with him

[river surge]

Ikora being the president

[slim girder]

And they all wear twilight garrison to mock titans

[trim grotto]

"They're trying to revolt! It's a revolution!!!"

meanwhile, me: what no it's just arcite and dahlia trying to train them, they're just incompatible

"The army comes!! New story beat! Frame war!!"

[dim minnow]

I actually would like to see Bael try and make more alliances like with the Dead Orbit Fleet containing the faction remnants

[trim grotto]

then, shockingly, nothing happened because nothing was happening in the first place

[dim minnow]

maybe even a storyline where he tries to convince the Neomuni to join him

[river surge]

Also

Bael, where is he now

[slim girder]

Hiding

[river surge]

Being the most wanted seems fairly easy to be tracked tho

When u have influence all over the system

[slim girder]

He's gone silent and based on audio from renegade activities he's looking to try and gain territory for more ritual sites and wants to recruit more dredgens

His message is also causing distrust in the city

He'll appear again at some point though like even he is almost eager on trying to get back at drifter for blowing his hand off

[dim minnow]

meanwhile Lume is having to deal with someone who already came to the conclusion that the Imperium is doomed

that someone being Bael of course

[river surge]

Wouldnt mind if Lume and Caiatl had a bargain

When Lume will understand he got betrayed

[dim minnow]

Lume, while not entirely unreasonable, probably wouldn't resort to that

[slim girder]

Their relationship is on thin ice. Dredgens are violent folks and not very good leaders to the imperium.

[trim grotto]

ice?
STABSIS?

[dim minnow]

he'll likely have enough of Bael though

[trim grotto]

that's draknesss and dakresness is evil

[dim minnow]

Stasis isn't Ice you neophyte

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/wondering-gif-19381031

next you'll say coldheart isnt stasis either dummy

[slim girder]

Ice is frozen water. Stasis is not ice. Wow Mael. Might have to chat to cryprtarchy and have them strip your perms

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/the-cat-in-the-hat-ill-get-you-mike-myers-bloody-accident-annoyed-gif-21119686

[slim girder]

[blazing wasp]

why the fuck isnt coldheart arc, the beam is light blue, there is no reason for the gun to be void element

[trim grotto]

bungyie fuymbled it again

[blazing wasp]

not my bungie

[dim minnow]

WHY THE FUCK ISN'T THRON STRAND

IT IS GREEN

AND IN KINETIC SLOT

[trim grotto]

OUTRAGEOUS

[blazing wasp]

WHY THE FUCK ARENT YOU STRAND
YOU'RE GREEN!

[trim grotto]

OMG Uke you can't just ask someone why they're green

[blazing wasp]

Covering my teammates ghost in green paint to use them as a makeshift tangle

[slim girder]

They should have never given us agers sceptor. Should've just changed coldheart to stasis

[blazing wasp]

sorry! sorry!

[slim girder]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-black-orange-county-you-better-not-no-i-said-no-gif-17734572

[dim minnow]

you sound like someone whose skin color got 2% greener overnight

[trim grotto]

I FOUND IT

i recorded this years ago lmao

[river surge]

Bael

Ngl

They cooked with Bael

Really like him