📚lore-discussion

[river surge]

!!!!

!!!

[icy grove]

Screw banner of war, I want kids without the struggle

[river surge]

Basically u got regen

[hard sigil]

they're like thought-seeking missiles in a way

[icy grove]

Super brain shit

[river surge]

Banner of War is an aspect of Strand for titans

get kills with meele

u get regen

[icy grove]

Wait

I don't know much about this as is

What are the lore implications of classes

[hard sigil]

they're just social groups

[icy grove]

How free are we to choose and switch them in lore

[hard sigil]

all guardians are capable of any given ability

it's just a manner of practice. classes evolved naturally as sets of people who prefer certain tactics

[icy grove]

Warlocks are happy when there's a test, hunters skip the test, and titans eat the test

[frigid sparrow]

Classes are just sects for us to dedicate our time into mastering specific abilities

However the ideas of inter-class building or classless risen is barely expanded upon

[icy grove]

Y'all think there will ever be a prismatic version of a class? Like a void master who can pick any void melee and class abilities

[hard sigil]

they're like martial art schools. technically you could learn judo and muay thai and jiu-jitsu at the same time but it's just easier to focus on one thing and get really good at it

[frigid sparrow]

The most notorious classless risen is drifter, who never fucking uses any light abilities

[river surge]

I dont think there can be a prismatic version of a class, prismatic is pretty much everything in one as a whole

Or I might be wrong here

[icy grove]

Well

Not actually prismatic, I mean the same concept wise

A mix and match

[hard sigil]

prismatic is pretty much unique to The Guardian

[frigid sparrow]

And then there's examples like shaw han, a hunter, creating sunspots, which are locked to titans

[hard sigil]

it's our canon mastery of using everything at our disposal

[river surge]

Also only WE can use Prismatic lore wise

[hard sigil]

and his little dinky golden gun well

[icy grove]

Wait, say a warlock learns solar, and void, lore wise could he use both at either time?

[hard sigil]

yeah

[river surge]

if he learns prismatic yes

[hard sigil]

no not especially

[river surge]

wait no?

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah I just prefer to call them sunspots because that's what I had drafted as an exotic concept

[river surge]

OH WAIT U MEANT

OH

sorry

[frigid sparrow]

Plus sunspots are already just mini wells basically

[hard sigil]

Ikora throws a nova bomb and then uses chaos reach immediately after in the Witch Queen campaign

[river surge]

Yeyeye

sorry

I forgot abt that

[icy grove]

So is prismatic just closer to being lore accurate of powerful guardians as a whole?

Wait wait

[river surge]

Currently only we can wield it

[icy grove]

So lore wise let's say, is the only thing prismatic changes for us is trancedence?

[hard sigil]

prismatic is specifically the Guardian's (us) mastery over doing so

we've just gotten REALLY good at it

[frigid sparrow]

Prismatic is the apex of meshing light and dark, acquired due to the witness meddling within the pale heart and our own mastery over the elements

[river surge]

We basically remove the line between light and darkness and we go BOOM

[icy grove]

Wait

Okay

Slow it down

[hard sigil]

transcendence is us well, transcending and hitting a crazy flow state

[icy grove]

I'm not understanding something

[frigid sparrow]

Since we have greater access to it, other guardians could theoretically harness it, and at least 2 have if you wanna be technical (because dual destiny exists)

[river surge]

I thought cannonically u only need someone using darkness and light for it

[icy grove]

Hang on hang on, so what exactly is prismatic? Because I thought we could already use light and dark and mix match lore wise

[river surge]

one darkness and one light

[hard sigil]

any guardian and can mix and match things, provided they've learnt and practiced the techniques. We have added darkness to it and mastered it. that's what prismatic represents

[frigid sparrow]

We get the class item from dual destiny which is prismatic exclusive

[icy grove]

OH

[slim girder]

It is "perfect mesh" of them.
Light and dark aren't separate in prismatic they are together

[river surge]

Oh

[icy grove]

So I'll assume it's much more difficult for a guardian who focuses on light subclasses to use dark ones without prismatic?

[frigid sparrow]

So it stands to reason that at least two main guardians have obtained the enlightenment of prismatic

[river surge]

Well yes technically u get that but I thought u only need a wielder of darkness and one of light

well then

[hard sigil]

in gameplay yes

[slim girder]

Yes. Atm no other guardian aside from us uses it in the story. But it is a thing in the lore and I would imagine other guardians are trying to master it

[frigid sparrow]

It's just a gameplay thing because there's no reason to give you a prismatic exclusive item if you could not use prismatic

[river surge]

Mhm

[hard sigil]

but dual destiny is canon, and what is that other guardian going to do with the class item

[frigid sparrow]

Exactly

[river surge]

Learn prismatic

[icy grove]

So is prismatic really a subclass? Or just a term for master of light and dark lore wise

[hard sigil]

actually I'm pretty sure there's a hunter with one equipped in Tharsis

[river surge]

HUH

[frigid sparrow]

*was

[hard sigil]

so I guess that solves itself

[river surge]

I didnt saw it

well

then its confirmed

[slim girder]

It's an "advanced subclass" you combine many aspects from all elements.

[hard sigil]

subclasses are just like... a social construct, man

[frigid sparrow]

Theoretically the only character who would actually obtain prismatic is ikora

[icy grove]

Brain hirt

[frigid sparrow]

The only fault is strand RN since we haven't seen her using it

[hard sigil]

she's the only other guardian who knows everything else

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah

[river surge]

Wasnt she learning it

[frigid sparrow]

Wouldn't surprise me

[slim girder]

Yes we have.
In the ending cutscene of the final shape

[icy grove]

But like, lore wise is it? Like

[frigid sparrow]

No fucking shot I missed that

[icy grove]

I can't wrap my head around this

[river surge]

Ikora can use prismatic but I cant prove it

[hard sigil]

think of it as a marital arts master combining everything they know to develop their own style

[icy grove]

Because like, there's no prismatic melee, or super, so how does one actually learn it?

[slim girder]

There's a shot of her and Zavala.
Zavala with stasis and ikora with strand coming from her fingers

[frigid sparrow]

But yeah ikora is pretty much the only lightbearer who is very comfortable with the darkness, enough to actually use it

[hard sigil]

it's not its own thing

[river surge]

Ikora is the highest class she might actually be the strongest guardian in the Vanguard

[hard sigil]

it's just the combination of light and dark

[trim grotto]

Sure. Transcendence is an entirely new skill. Not just Light and Dark, but both together as its own force.

[slim girder]

Might be?
Is the strongest

[frigid sparrow]

Saint's still very old fashioned, ana might be open to it (but I don't think we see much of her outside of gunslinger), shaxx is uhh non-functional in story, uh.. who else is there..

[icy grove]

So prismatic lore wise is just an adjective for a guardian who is a master of light and dark?

[trim grotto]

No.

[river surge]

I exist so

Im joking she is the strongest

[hard sigil]

it's the act of harmony between the two paracausal forces

[frigid sparrow]

Oh, drifter isn't even in tune enough with the light to try and learn prismatic

[hard sigil]

it's the use of the full spectrum. like a prism

[icy grove]

I get that

But

What's the dividing line between a prismatic guardian, and a guardian who can use light and dark after restless practice

[frigid sparrow]

And uh, eris/zavala/Osiris don't even have ghosts

[river surge]

Drifter could learn something higher than prismatic but we would never know

[frigid sparrow]

So it's like, pretty much just ikora who'd be down for prismatic in terms of other known guardians

[hard sigil]

the ability to remove the line between the two and use it as one force

[river surge]

Yeah, now I actually feel bad for Zavala I actually wanted to see him with both Light and Darkness but sadly its not coming anymore

[icy grove]

Okay this leads to another question, what's the lore implications of abilities and their cool downs? Is that just a gameplay thing or is it per say, how long it takes a guardian to get the energy to use something again

[hard sigil]

it's just gameplay

[trim grotto]

We've been using Darkness for about six years or so. Prismatic isn't just using Light and Dark, it's combining them into the Transcendent force that is Prismatic. The multicoloured energy.
Any Guardian with enough skill can use Light and can use Dark, but making them combine and act in harmony is a different thing.

[hard sigil]

to an EXTENT

[icy grove]

So prismatic is a literal combination? Like the prismatic grenade?

[river surge]

At some point I get tired and I cant use Golden Gun anymore

[trim grotto]

That depends entirely on the Guardian. Your strength in Light is a skill like any other.

The giant creature pulls back its other fist and its steel muscles bunch. I reach for the Light and get… nothing? Huh. Right. I used my flaming gun on those three Taken outside the obelisk. Gotta learn to count.

What I love about my Ghost—```

Some Guardians like Ikora can use their "Super" multiple times in a row without cooldown. Others... not so much.

[icy grove]

WOAH

[hard sigil]

it takes concentration, energy and practice to perform techniques like anything else, but certain things are exaggerated

[icy grove]

That's a wall of text

[trim grotto]

Transcendence is that combination, yes, reflected in game. You need to use Light and Dark to become Transcendent.

[icy grove]

So does it depend on how good you are at

Well

Using it?

[hard sigil]

yeah. its an art form

[river surge]

Ikora Rey is like Gojo Satoru, she can create purple using two nova bombs

[icy grove]

So could I like throw a flaming snow ball at someone

[trim grotto]

Essentially.

[hard sigil]

not everyone can concentrate hard enough to form a functioning gun out of pure energy

[trim grotto]

The Hunter's Transcendent/Prismatic Grenade is already a Stasis/Solar grenade.

[hard sigil]

or at least, not be able to hold it for a long time

[icy grove]

So strand is consciousness, you can literally reach out and grab it if you're smart enough at it. Correct?

[trim grotto]

Sort of.

Strand is the form the Weave takes when we wield it as a force. The Weave is a connecting thread of consciousness.

[icy grove]

In the sense of strand is consciousness, what is solar?

[frigid sparrow]

Big fire

[hard sigil]

radiation. nuclear fission

[trim grotto]

Apples to oranges. Strand is Darkness, Darkness is the realm of the mind. Solar doesn't compare to it.

[icy grove]

Fucking mind boggling

[hard sigil]

light energies are just actual expressions of the physical world

[icy grove]

Well not in comparison, in conceptual sense

[hard sigil]

there's much less to say about it

darkness is just conceptual

[trim grotto]

Yes. Solar is a representation of heat. Light is the realm of the physical, whereas Darkness is not.
https://youtu.be/TJyW0cK2pfE?si=ZnBJ-_2Tr02oLTpS

[icy grove]

So throwing a solar grenade is literally throwing hot at someone?

[frigid sparrow]

Conceptually using stasis as a big ice cube for my death beam space station

[hard sigil]

yeah

[trim grotto]

Essentially.

[hard sigil]

you're just creating the power of the sun in the palm of your hand

and then chucking it at a dreg

[frigid sparrow]

Say that again

[icy grove]

So back to prismatic

What's to stop a guardian who doesn't know it to grab a strand of... Strand and wrap it around a ball of heat and use it as a mace

[hard sigil]

solar warlOCK vs. strand hunter.... Spider-Man is my favourite destiny movie

[trim grotto]

Mastery, probably. Light and Dark are two sides of the same coin, but they're also often at odds. Someone who hasn't learned Transcendence would probably just fail at the concept entirely.

[hard sigil]

nothing, really. the things we use are just techniques that have been thought of and developed with creativity. Of course the guardian would have to know what they're doing and be able to do it

[icy grove]

So, strand is mastery of solidifying consciousness, and solar is the mastery of controlling heat, in this sense would prismatic be the mastery of combination?

[hard sigil]

Blink is both arc and void because it's the same effect, just using different methods to achieve it. void blink collapses the space between you and the point you're trying to reach, arc blink is you moving at an incredibly fast speed

[icy grove]

Give me a strand blink, I cut off your consciousness for a second and when you regain it I'm in front of you

[trim grotto]

I think it'd be more mastery in general. Failure to master Strand means Strand unravels your body entirely. Failure to master Stasis means you lose control of your freedom and become frozen. They're dangerous elements to handle.

If you cannot keep the state of mind required to use these elements, it will bring you harm. Combination would stress this state of mind.

[icy grove]

Trying to weaponize your thoughts probably does hurt them NGL 😭

[frigid sparrow]

I weaponize my thoughts all the time

[icy grove]

I mean into a solid

Not saying bad words

[hard sigil]

weaponizing my thoughts by thinking of moving the muscle in my trigger finger

[frigid sparrow]

I don't say bad words I just make exotic weapon and armor concepts

[icy grove]

I wanna use strand irl

Charger fell of your bed?

Now u don't gotta get up

Wait

Say two people can use strand

What's to stop the other from manipulating the same thread of the other to prevent them from using it?

[trim grotto]

What's to stop them from forming a new thread? Strand only forms as thread because it's how we perceive it. It's an energy first and foremost.

[icy grove]

Well

Like what's to stop a strand warlock from yoinking a strand hunters ult out of its hands?

Do they not because the hunter could just make a new one in seconds? Lore wise

[trim grotto]

Typically one ends up disintegrating when handling unfriendly energies. That's what Crucible has taught me.

[icy grove]

"Lmao I'll be taking this!"

"Where is my hand."

[hard sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-strand-darkness-kit9-gif-27631846

there it is

that's generally what'll happen

[frigid sparrow]

This happened to my buddy Eric

[hard sigil]

it happened to ME

[icy grove]

So...

Y'all said it can be learned by mortals?

[hard sigil]

yeah

very carefully

it's why Osiris got us to do all the trial and error

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-strand-osiris-darkness-gif-27631855

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-osiris-the-phoenix-strand-darkness-gif-27585989

[icy grove]

So I'll assume that's why Osiris was watching

To learn what not to do

[river surge]

Both Stasis and Strand can be learned by mortals

[icy grove]

What's the stasis equivalent of failing to use it?

[river surge]

however its far more risky

Strand is extremely risky to learn as a mortal

[trim grotto]

Remember what happened to Eramis?

[icy grove]

Oh yeah...

[hard sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/eramis-kell-freeze-destiny2-платно-gif-25067594

this is the only one I can find

I do not know what the caption says

[icy grove]

So... When frozen we can shatter enemies to break them free of it, yet hurt them

Gameplay? Or would shattering them literally just fucking obliterate them

[hard sigil]

depends how frozen they are

generally it's a shell

[trim grotto]

Also depends on the enemy, I suppose.

[hard sigil]

and not actually freezing their cells

[icy grove]

Destiny dlc bosses have changed so much

Bug woman who wants ice

God

[hard sigil]

it's important to remember that stasis isn't actually ice

it's just crystalline

[icy grove]

Isn't it just a way to show a lack of control?

[hard sigil]

pretty much

exerting your control by forming crystalline structures

[icy grove]

So

Possible to learn as a dude

Very risky

"Mom get the blow dryer, he failed again"

[hard sigil]

you have to be very sure of your willpower

[trim grotto]

The Exo Stranger. Elsie Bray. She's not a Guardian.

And of course, Zavala learned it after losing Targe.

Not to mention Eramis herself of course

[icy grove]

Overthinkers and self conscious people trying to learn stasis

[hard sigil]

and there's technology that's been developed that just harnesses these energies

[icy grove]

Like eramis' gauntlet thing

[hard sigil]

like the splinters eramis gives her gang

[icy grove]

Wait

[hard sigil]

and the little face shields some captains have on Kepler

[icy grove]

So what does the pyramid do for people trying to learn stasis?

[hard sigil]

offers knowledge

[icy grove]

Is it just a way to help them learn control? Like the veil is for strand?

[hard sigil]

the pyramids are just ships the witness controls

[trim grotto]

That's what the Splinters are for. Like Stasis training wheels.

[river surge]

That was The Witness putting us to test

[hard sigil]

the ziggurat giving us Stasis was an attempt to tempt us or kill us in the process

[icy grove]

Oh?

[river surge]

to see if we can wield it

it basically told us to go to Europa and test it for ourselves

[hard sigil]

and in many timelines it ends up working

[icy grove]

Oh yeah

Time

That's weird

[hard sigil]

yeah there's a lot of moving parts

and different types of time travel

[icy grove]

As much as I love Elise I am SO confused by her lore

[trim grotto]

The Witness expected one of two outcomes.
One) We control Stasis. The power is corrupting, and we seek out more with the Witness as our master.
Two) We die.
Either way, a win win. It's just that Elsie, and our past experience with Darkness thanks to Drifter/Shin/Gambit, helped us control ourselves.

[icy grove]

Wasn't Elsie in D1?

[hard sigil]

yeah

[trim grotto]

Yes, she's the Exo Stranger.

[icy grove]

Did she ever show use of stasis? Or did she learn that during beyond lihht

[hard sigil]

she learnt it prior to us and shared it with Eris and Drifter, but it was recent

[trim grotto]

We didn't know Stasis existed until Beyond Light. Elsie, however, had used it in the past.

[river surge]

One thing to be noticed about both strand and stasis

both of them existed

before us

[trim grotto]

Strand did not exist before us. The Weave, however, did.

[river surge]

The Weave yeah

[icy grove]

Strand is our manipulation of it right

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[river surge]

Yes

So basically when we got there

it was already there we just had to control it

[icy grove]

So

Not to say this in an insulting way

What exactly does she do 😭

[river surge]

Who

[icy grove]

Elsie

[river surge]

She goes to different timelines

[icy grove]

Timelines? Or times

[trim grotto]

Well, we'd have succumbed to Stasis without her guidance, so there's that. She also aids and teaches new Guardians who learn the power.

[icy grove]

Time only goes forward right? Unless you're the nine

[trim grotto]

Furthermore, without Elsie, we wouldn't have destroyed the Black Heart.

[icy grove]

What's the black heart 😭

I probably know but forgot, it's late

Well

Early

[river surge]

I will let Mael explain cause he knows better

But it was basically something by The Witness to stop The Traveler from healing

[trim grotto]

We destroyed it at the end of the D1 vanilla campaign. It was a corrupting force that was leeching off of the Traveler and in other timelines lead to our doom. We destroyed it because Elsie told us to.

[hard sigil]

a failed attempt to replicate the veil by the Sol Divisive and Witness, and the big McGuffin of D1

[river surge]

Mc Guffin

[hard sigil]

that's what the trope is called

any essential item is a mcguffin

[icy grove]

Mmm

Mcguffin

[trim grotto]

MacGuffin

[icy grove]

Hubgry

[trim grotto]

Elsie's been stuck in a time loop. She's experienced countless timelines, each one failing to survive and stop the Witness, until now. Until our timeline, she was trapped in her own personal curse.

[river surge]

The Wingness

[icy grove]

How does one hop timelines?

I thought you could only go forward in time

[hard sigil]

there's exceptions

like Elsie

[trim grotto]

She was not in control of it.

[icy grove]

Oh

Who was

Or is

[river surge]

None

[hard sigil]

nooobody (that we know)

[trim grotto]

We have no idea what caused her time loop. Some think it's related to the Traveler.

[icy grove]

Does she know?

[hard sigil]

nope

[river surge]

Also there is a timeline where we died but I dont wanna go into The Corridors of Time

[hard sigil]

she was too busy just trying to get out of it

[icy grove]

So she basically just kept going back to her previous check point till she didn't get murked 😭

[hard sigil]

it's more of a portent of the future

and there's the Saint situation

[trim grotto]

Yes, pretty much. Big turning point was destroying the Black Heart.

[icy grove]

Wait wait

[river surge]

time in destiny is wierdd

[icy grove]

Is this gonna be some mortal combat esque shit? Like will the time lines ever connect or is that out of the question

[trim grotto]

Technically they already have with Saint-14, but we rather try to avoid that. It's unfathomably dangerous.

[hard sigil]

usually timelines are kept separate unless vex are involved

[icy grove]

I have no idea how the vex work bro

[river surge]

I dont know either

[hard sigil]

the Saint in our current timeline is an alternative one we rescued from dying

[river surge]

from patterns to radiolaria to giant machines, to timelines to Winnower and Gardener

Vex stuff

[hard sigil]

and there's a whole grandfather paradox where Saint was constantly told about us and tried to live up to our example, and we were constantly told about Saint and how we should aspire to be like him

[icy grove]

Okay

Wait

Wait

So timelines, those are separate from traveling time

[hard sigil]

kinda

they're like time travelling sideways

rather than forward or back

[trim grotto]

Well, it can be.

[river surge]

Depends actually

[icy grove]

Three dif answers

Gonna have a brain blast soon

[river surge]

They can be separate

Thats what we meant

[icy grove]

So

Traveling into the future

Is different from traveling to a different timeline

But you can travel into the future of s different time line as well?

[hard sigil]

yes

[river surge]

Yep

[frigid sparrow]

We did that a lot in curse

[trim grotto]

Well, no. We didn't. Those were simulations.

Futures that may have been.

[hard sigil]

the vex can rapidly develop an area through both manual conversion, and by pulling architecture that already exists in a different timeline into this one

it's how there's vex architecture on Venus that's older than humanity

despite the vex not being in our version of the solar system until at least the golden age

[icy grove]

I hate the vex

So

[river surge]

Vex are basically time machines

[icy grove]

We can mix and match abilities with prismatic yes?

How far does the mix go

[trim grotto]

Well, you've got a rather hefty selection you can already see in game.

[icy grove]

Like can I mix stasis and strand into a like, flexible ice staff?

[hard sigil]

not in game

[icy grove]

Lore wise

[hard sigil]

but potentially in theory anything is possible

[river surge]

Lore wise yes

but not gameplay wise

[trim grotto]

Hypothetically plausible but nothing of the sort has been remotely seen.

[icy grove]

So I have this armor set on, I like to imagine that it's what happens as a result of my guardian using prismatic and only using dark abilities (yes I run double dark don't shit on me)

Would it make sense to say that the blue is a result of the stasis and strand mixing and creating a rigid yet flexible result?

[hard sigil]

destiny 2 playful cloud real

[river surge]

What Mael said

[icy grove]

Understandable

Also do y'all FW the armor

Or is it mid

[river surge]

its cool

mine is mid asf

[icy grove]

WAIT

Facet of devotion

Is that not a mix of strand and stasis?

[river surge]

yup

[icy grove]

@trim grotto something of the sort has been remotely seen

[hard sigil]

I mean in a way

it's just using darkness to boost light

Stasis or Strand

[icy grove]

True

[trim grotto]

Fragments are in a bit of a weird place. They have imagery and game mechanic descriptions but that's about the extent of their existence.

[icy grove]

Yeah...

Hey since praxic has been brought up a lot recently

What's going on with that

Is it still warlocks that hate the dark

[hard sigil]

not just warlocks, and the events of renegades has set off a change in that belief

[slim girder]

Sort of. Some are still very tied to that belief but with recent events their code is kinda now seen as ignorance

[hard sigil]

but yeah they were originally a sect of warlocks who viewed any research or pondering into the darkness as heretical and treasonous to the light

[icy grove]

Dorks

My bad

[slim girder]

Even Aunor has said she would show the praxic order those artefacts of light and dark to show them it can be done

Praxic order might not believe it but the physical proof will def shake them

[hard sigil]

specifically our Praxic Blade

and our recent induction into the Praxic order as a guardian who uses darkness has, according to Aunor, "Changed the order forever"

[slim girder]

Just like the dredgens, the praxics are changing

The whole point of this new saga is fate.
No battle between light and dark but instead the fate of people and also certain groups even

[icy grove]

What exactly did the witness want with the traveller again?

[river surge]

I have noticed something interesting in the dialogue when The Witness offers us to become its disciple

when the Witness says

"Your worth"

"Your might" you can hear for a split second a dissenter saying "wrong"

now idk if it says wrong but its very similar

[icy grove]

So the witness just wanted stagnation

[river surge]

Yup

[icy grove]

Wait

So what the hell is up with eris

Why is she like half hive

[trim grotto]

Dova did a bit of a writeup on Season of the Witch. It's in the pins, under D2Y6 Part 2.

[hard sigil]

she was on the verge of death and had to do some emergency surgery

[icy grove]

I see

[slim girder]

If you're talking about the eyes. Down in the hellmouth long ago she and 5 others attemtpted to kill crota to avenge the fallen guardians he'd slain. All of them except eris died and to survive down there she used an ahamkara wish dragon bone to save her. This allowed her to take the eyes from an acolyte and ultimately climb back out of the hellmouth.

[trim grotto]

oh right the eyes

honestly i just see that as normal for her haha

[jagged badge]

She looks so cool now she keeps the blindfold thingy off her face since Heresy

[slim girder]

Yeah i like her new look with the exposed eyes

[calm granite]

I thought that her ahamkara wish just made her blind and then somehow she put acolyte eyes in her orbits and it somehow worked

[trim grotto]

Both! She knew the way out, but it blinded her. Ahamkara shenanigans.

So she got to eye-carvin'

got some fancy new ones

[slim girder]

An acolytes eyes were her way out

So she quite literallu pulled an Uchiha and poped those bad boys out like a lightbulb

And then added a third eye in her forehead for good measure

[calm granite]

oh yeah right. Yeah so the whole acolyte eyes thing wasn't part of the wish

which is even funnier tbh. I'm unsure how she thought that'd help

[hard sigil]

some say if you hang around in the hellmouth you can find an acolyte with human eyes.... which isn't true....

[slim girder]

On the brink of death i think she was willing to do anything

[trim grotto]

what a horrifying image

[slim girder]

No light, dead ghost and only an ahamkara bone

In the hellmouth of all places

[hard sigil]

to be fair an Ahamkara bone is probably the best thing you can have in that situation

[jagged badge]

Who do we know who we can conscript into editing it

[icy grove]

Let's talk about the hive

[trim grotto]

egg probably

[icy grove]

So, I notice that there are a lot of different types

Acolytes, thralls, knights

How all does that work?

Is it something a hive can change into? Or born as

[hard sigil]

they morph

like caterpillars

[trim grotto]

Modern Hive start as Thrall and morph into Acolytes as they grow stronger through death. From Acolytes, they become either Knights or Wizards/Witches/floaty magic goobers.

[icy grove]

Is it a choice?

[hard sigil]

I don't think we have any hive that have been willing to really talk about it. let alone talk at all

but considering the hive gods were able to choose their morphs I don't see why not

[trim grotto]

I'd assume it's a choice. But it could be by their 'nature'.

[icy grove]

So

Are they like

Sentient?

Id assume so

Like do they think

[hard sigil]

yeah

oh and ogres are just really mutated and crazed thrall

[trim grotto]

Well, certainly. Savathun taunts us regularly.

[icy grove]

I love savathun

[jagged badge]

[icy grove]

Well I know the gods do 😭, I didn't know if it was like some monkey to human esque thing

[hard sigil]

well theyve got like. names and stuff

[icy grove]

What happened to her? I remember the was a prisoner for a bit then fought the witness w us

[trim grotto]

Savathun has been at odds with the Witness since the Collapse, actually.

[meager coral]

We stole her dead sons head and killed the reincarnation of her brother so she is currently pissed off with us

[hard sigil]

she was happy with a very thin truce until we really got her mad with the echo of navigation

[icy grove]

What if I say sorry and REALLY mean it

Will she be chill then

[hard sigil]

probably not

but I imagine we'll have to work with her whenever Xivu finally reaches Sol

[icy grove]

What one is navigation?

[meager coral]

Oryx one, heresy

[hard sigil]

Heresy. the memory of Oryx

[meager coral]

Wouldn’t surprise me if she gets mad again because we’re meddling with family matters

[icy grove]

So

Power scale

1 is a vandal, 10 is the witness

Where is she

[meager coral]

I mean a lot of her power comes from she is probably the most cunning and deceptive being alive

[trim grotto]

Savathun? She's a Hive God with a Throne World empowered by the Wellspring, an entire Hive Brood, and she's a Lightbearer atop of that. She's not exactly a pushover.

And also yes what Marx said

[icy grove]

So like

8-9 ish area?

[meager coral]

She is strong, has an army, but she makes a LOT of her gains through undermining people and deceit

[icy grove]

So... Raw power is less

[meager coral]

Yeah if you were to compare like it you were to 1v1 her she would appear weaker because she is a master of manipulating her situation

I mean she was able to deceive the witness

Which is kinda funny considering the witness told her to be cunning

[icy grove]

I'm still a bit confused on how we actually beat the witness

Wasn't he like

Insane power wise

[trim grotto]

Firstly, the Witness was a bit busy trying to wrangle the Traveler. To control and force a god.

Secondly, we carved the Witness apart. The Witness is an amalgamation, a being made of an entire species. With power granted to us by the Traveler, we began carving parts of the Witness away from the whole.

[jagged badge]

The Witness was comprised by a collective species fused into one being. But that species did not all agree with the Witness and its goals, especially as time progressed. Dissenters sought to help us defeat the Witness, and we used the Traveler’s Light directly to destroy the Dissenters in Darkness, undoing the Witness

[icy grove]

So the witness is ermac

To say

[trim grotto]

I have no idea who that is

[meager coral]

We also hit it with 12 traveller mega light chaos reaches to finish the job

[icy grove]

WHAT

My man doesn't know mortal Kombat

[slim girder]

Mortal Kombat character

[trim grotto]

I do not know Mortal Kombat no

[icy grove]

He's an amalgamation of souls made by a sorcerer

[hard sigil]

mortal combat character

[icy grove]

And the souls all want different stuff

Most of the time

[trim grotto]

Any of the Witness's dissenters that want something else became the Darkness Statues we'd been encountering for years.

[icy grove]

Ou

Oh

[slim girder]

@icy grove if you played the final shape and watched that cinematic I told you about all of this would

[meager coral]

The deep cutscene is very key as well for understanding the witness as a concept

[icy grove]

Well I knew it was many souls

From that vid

[river surge]

Also Clarity,

Um

Exos Clovis

Clarity was a dissenter who didnt agree with The Witness

Correct?

[trim grotto]

Clarity Control was one of the Darkness Statues, yes.

Clarity was what Clovis was calling the Darkness emanating from Clarity Control.

[river surge]

Clarity Control

So basically

Idk how to put this together cause I might be wrong

So The Witness gave Clovis through the K1 Artifact thing the idea of how make Exos

It told him to go to Europa

Does that mean that a dissenter from The Witness did something good in favor for Clovis but not for The Witness and it got turned into a statue?

[trim grotto]

The statue on Europa arrived there thirty years before Clovis did.

[river surge]

Oooohhhh

So it was already there

I thought the statue got there the moment Clovis got that information

Also from what I read

Clarity Control killed 19 researchers trying to move it

And also was the only statue which acted wierders than the other ones

[trim grotto]

I have sequestered the recordings. Especially the sensorium telemetry. Quite upsetting.```

[hard sigil]

man I really want to know what exactly happened

[slim girder]

If i had to guess maybe something similar to what happened when people touched the veil

[hard sigil]

working on Europa must've been like working in an scp site. one day there's bodies being multiplied by a statue of alien origin, the next a portal to a Dyson sphere is opened and robots start pouring out of it

[trim grotto]

You harvest the milk from the robots and make robot people out of them

The people sound and act like their old selves but they don't remember you

[river surge]

Also something I have read, some researchers actually listened to the whispers but they died

This statue seemed more aggresive

[meager coral]

The witness itself is capable of communicating through the statues though isn’t it?

[river surge]

I dont think so

[hard sigil]

did so in shadowkeep

[river surge]

It did

Wait I thought The Witness communicated to us witb our Ghost

[meager coral]

Cus it was the witness through the statues and Europa pyramid in BL too wasn’t it

[hard sigil]

and in general outside of punishment I'd wager that's exactly why the dissenter statues were in the pyramids. to be used for direct communication with the witness by disciples

[river surge]

Also

Another question

Super good one

How did the K1 Artifact arrive on the moon

[hard sigil]

probably fell off of Nezarec's pyramid or something

[river surge]

K1 artifact was before the collapse tho

[hard sigil]

actually no that doesn't make sense

yeah

[river surge]

Its a really good one

Cause it couldnt come by itself

[hard sigil]

deposited there on purpose by the witness

like an advance scouting tool and to tempt someone like clovis

[river surge]

Why do I have a feeling that a Black Fleet Pyramid came to Sol before The Traveler

And planted all of them here

[hard sigil]

eh that doesn't make sense

[river surge]

Same with Clarity Control

Its actually a super good question and really wierd

[hard sigil]

the fleet was chasing the traveller and was evidently a couple centuries behind it wouldn't have been able to

[river surge]

How the black fleet were already on Sol with all of these before The Traveler

Cause we know from the um K1 lore

That the aritfact was here long before The Traveler

Even Eris claimed that it was left by the black fleet in the past here

But how

Also "Clarity" energy was eventually resonance no?

[meager coral]

I don’t think it’s ever stated what brand of darkness clarity is

[river surge]

I mean The Witness uses resonance

So it would be logic if all the dissenters had resonance powers

[meager coral]

It’s possible but as far as I can remember clarity is just a Clovis word for darkness that he named when he communed with the artifact

[trim grotto]

Not specifically.

[meager coral]

But it’s also not clear clarity control was actually a dissenter cus apparently it was kind of an asshole

I mean it did kill a lot of people for seemingly no reason

[river surge]

Idk

[trim grotto]

Well, it... has to be.

[river surge]

Maybe be had other plans

Who knows

[trim grotto]

The dissenters still preformed the will of the Witness. They only worked against it in Final Shape because of the circumstances.

[river surge]

I think his main purpose was to commune with Clovis

Not with his researchers

[meager coral]

I mean there is a dissenter but it may not necessarily of been individuality the dissenters actions I mean

[river surge]

Thats why he killed them

[trim grotto]

Until Final Shape, they were never individual actions.

[meager coral]

Yeah that was what I was meaning I just phrased it wrong

[river surge]

But any clues on how the Anomaly got in Sol before The Traveler?

Like did someone placed it there from the black fleet or how

[trim grotto]

Not that I recall. Could have been the Hive, though.

[river surge]

Wait

Thats actually

A good one

[heady gyro]

I feel like it's rarely emphasised how OP a guardian's healing ability is

[fringe sundial]

resonance is such a cool power

visually and lore wise

i hope we get a resonant subclass

i pray

combined with some straight pyramid tech armor

no more adding other random stuff

the closest we have to pure pyramid armor is the vow set

which is not good enough

[slim girder]

It wouldn't fit. It's in a similar boat to siva, More tied to technology than an actual paracausal force

[river surge]

Also wasnt resonance more of a form of vibrations and wavelength

[ember storm]

resonance damage ingame is listed as just solar isnt it

[river surge]

Yup

[ember storm]

it's just the basic darkness effect, opposite to the traveler's terraforming

that's what Arrivals was all about

[river surge]

After getting snuffed out by the Witness hands so many times

[ember storm]

pyramids were gradually using resonance to revert the terraforming on the worlds

it's what happened to Io's tree of silver wings

[river surge]

Ik but I didnt knew what kind of energy it utilises

Not energy what kind of thing

Is based on

[slim girder]

Whenever we interact with resonance it's almost always been about unlocking doors and interacting with objects. Picking up splinters, collecting bits to dunk into a depository or putting in codes with symbols

It's very much the tech the precursors lived with in their golden age and now use to hunt the traveler

[river surge]

So it like Siva

But far more advanced

[slim girder]

If siva is the OG and quicksilver is the big brother then pyramid tech is the elder brother

[river surge]

Noted

Soooooo

This is what the precursors have been using in their golden age

[ember storm]

Resonance is just darkness energy

it doesn't really do anything

at least SIVA was made as a construction tool

[slim girder]

Pretty much yes. My theory is that due to it's name it would be like if a door opened for you without an ID card. It "resonates" with you in particular so only opens for you.

An alien nanotech of sorts

[river surge]

I kinda wish we got more into the precursors

[ember storm]

are people still upset about the radial mast btw

[slim girder]

I'm sure some are out there but it's def a minority

[icy grove]

I kinda forgot what happened

How did we go from two people light saber fighting to joining a gang of eliksni

[dim minnow]

We needed help from the Syndicates at various points

The Pikers had a Shank that was able to hack into Imperium terminals that a Ghost could not.

[river surge]

WAIT

[icy grove]

I'm waiting

[river surge]

The precursors were bald

I just fucking realised that

😭

Broo

Nah bald curse strikes since the beginning

Also they are very slimy

And pale

Okay I stop now

[icy grove]

Wait

Stay

You're smart

[river surge]

Im just sharing too much irelevant information

[icy grove]

Well

I have questions

[river surge]

Say

[icy grove]

What exactly did we do with savathun during the episodes?

Or her relatives

[river surge]

Well well well

In Heresy we basically lost our "alliance" with her

Cause we killed her brother

Oryx for the 2nd time

That wasnt even the real Oryx

Also she is mad at us

[icy grove]

Why did we kill oryx again

[river surge]

Next time we will meet her we are cooked

[river surge]

Echo of Navigator was basically a younger Oryx

[icy grove]

Are the echos people?

I never understood

Okay wait

Can you just summarize the three episodes?

I know the echos are parts of the witness

[river surge]

They are pretty much

[dim minnow]

They are memories of the Witness bathed in pure Darkness given powerful form by the Light

[river surge]

Manifestation of memories of The Witness

[river surge]

Ok, so I am not a lore expert but I am going to try and help

So in episode Echoes

The echo of command got in possesion of Maya Sundaresh

We fight her throughout the whole episode only for her to leave and survive

[icy grove]

Was she relevant before this?

[river surge]

Very

She was the founder of Neomuna

The first crew to discover The Veil after the collapse

[icy grove]

As in builder?

[river surge]

She created the foundation of it

[icy grove]

Ah

What is she?

Exo

[river surge]

She was a woman

A researcher

Then she died after experimenting with the veil

However before that

She conducted experiements with the vex

Which led and her and her wife Chioma Esi to the vex net

221 simuations of them got into the vex net basically

I believe 221

[icy grove]

Lesbian robots?

Fire

[river surge]

They were humans

Btw

She also founded Future War Cult

227 copies

Were sorry

Not 221

She also created a duplicate of herself Lakshmi-2

And she now killed a member of The Nine

She is very important

However these are small stuff that I have told you

Since I am not a lore expert guy

And I am sorry if I said something wrong

But yeah she is important overall

[icy grove]

Ohh

[river surge]

If you want you can wait for lore experts here cause I am not that experienced with telling fancy lore, and I hate telling someone something wrong

😭

[dim minnow]

Is a facsimile it's archetype?

[river surge]

Well she was an exo copy of Maya so

[trim grotto]

Only in part.

[icy grove]

How did the aoinians get to Kepler again?

Forgor

[dim minnow]

They were a group of humans from the AION initiative who were sent to study the strange happenings going on there

Which was during the Golden Age.

Then, they pretty much built their own society there when the Collapse happened and they were left on Kepler

Like the Neomuni, they were basically safe from the crazy shit that went on during that time

[dim minnow]

This reminds me that I should do those badass summaries for TFS and the episodes at some point

Then maybe have them pinned up there with the others

[icy grove]

My b my phone died

I'm back

[icy grove]

Oh I see

[dim minnow]

Fun fact, Dean Rebecca is actually technically 17 years old, but had lived far longer than that because the Aionians discovered a way to give themselves functional immortality

[icy grove]

How much do we know about threadlings?

[ember storm]

they're not important like at all

just strand projectiles that have as much agency as a suicidal slug

they're not an important thing or substantial concept guardians literally just made it up

[queen swallow]

"What is my purpose?"
"Your purpose is to explode."
"You are fucking kidding me."

[ember storm]

my loyal child of the old gods when there's a group of red bars

https://tenor.com/view/kratoss-kratos-banana-gif-8800993167778966245

[haughty stump]

Someone give me the entire history of destiny , please🥹🙏

[slim girder]

Big ball came from space, Humanity had golden age, Megamind chased it and ruined golden age, Humanity barely survived, Immortal guardians rose up and defeated megamind over the course of 10 years.

[haughty stump]

Fire

[icy grove]

Ball, people like ball, ball go, people mad, ball find new people, new people kill old mad people, ball stay

[blazing wasp]

we genuinely cannot give a cohesive answer to that, covering just the main stuff will deadass take half a day

thats not an exaggeration

it will take half a day at minimum

[hard sigil]

idk retro did it in one sentence

[blazing wasp]

real

there is a good video covering the majority of the events (up until and not including The final shape)

[icy grove]

Hey so are there ever like any stereotypes mentioned in the lore?

[vague jacinth]

Destiny has lore?

[icy grove]

Like are there ever any documents or smfh that says like a void hunter acted like an edgy dork

[icy grove]

Not really

[haughty stump]

You can you’re just not locked in, you’re not hungry enough, you don’t want it enough, you ain’t for it for the love of the game. You got this pal I believe in you 🥹✌️

[blazing wasp]

yea you're right i dont want to spend half a day explaining it

i got raids to sherpa!

[blazing wasp]

a few

[icy grove]

Enlighten me oh ukulele

[blazing wasp]

guardians dancing without music at random, staring into the void for a long periods of time, jumping off the edge for shits and giggles

[haughty stump]

Fairs twin. But think about the little boy whose dreams you’re going to crush 🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹

[blazing wasp]

warlocks being smartasses about shit like basic grammar

[trim grotto]

A rather significant amount of it.

[blazing wasp]

thought about

i am now encouraged to explain even less

[slim girder]

There's a sign at the bottom of the city walls saying to watch out for falling guardians.

[haughty stump]

On my baby mama’s soul I’m haunting yo ass 😭🙏

[icy grove]

My brother just another me 💔

[haughty stump]

I’m just saying there are no hunters in the Epstein files 😌

Now titans….

Zavala was a freak !

[icy grove]

Release the Ghaul files

[vague jacinth]

They went to Puffy‘s house instead.

[blazing wasp]

I sometimes seem like a smartass about grammar, and im a warlock, but in reality its because im dense as shit and if i dont get perfect clarification about something im occasionally prone to misunderstand

[slim girder]

But they are also gambling addicts

[icy grove]

Oh I just make fun of my friends because its funny

[haughty stump]

EVEN BETTER

🤑🤑🤑

Win win win

[vague jacinth]

Gold Gold Gold.

[icy grove]

I just know Crow was on them Ghaul files

[trim grotto]

For what it's worth, Crow didn't exist when Ghaul did.

[icy grove]

That's what they want you to think

[haughty stump]

Them Calus parties were something else

[icy grove]

Don't forget the calus oil 💔

[slim girder]

Uhhh. We literally shot the guy who became crow

[icy grove]

Oh psh

Same person

Wait, the two mayas are different right 😭

[slim girder]

Wdym?

Lakshmi and Maya the conductor?

[icy grove]

So

I might have thought maras name was maya

[hard sigil]

lol

very different people

[icy grove]

Mara was absolutely at the Ghaul island

[slim girder]

Wonder how a conversation between Mara Sov and Maya Sundaresh would go

Mara hasn't really done all that much with the vex generally

[hard sigil]

I don't think they'd actually have a whole lot to say to each other

[trim grotto]

something about Mara having it all and giving it up, I imagine

[icy grove]

"So like, you control some time travelling robots? Cool. I guess."

Ya know

I wonder what a conversation between savathun and just like some random dude from the city would be like

Y'all think she would like try to manipulate him or just leave him be

[hard sigil]

I imagine the person would most likely be dead very fast

[slim girder]

This has happened

[icy grove]

Enlighten me

Immediately

[slim girder]

@icy grove https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/fundament-shell

Here's the lore card. Guy named Sean Rigby made a deal with savathun

[hard sigil]

oh right yeah I forgot about this

making her out to be a crossroads demon is genuinely inspired

[slim girder]

I mean how else would a regular powerless human react to some otherworldly being with giant mothwings

[icy grove]

Fire

Imagine tho

Like I would genuinely think I'm dead at that point and something is coming to take me

[vague jacinth]

The the punch finisher based on that guy?

In the Eververse store.

[hard sigil]

which one

[slim girder]

That's Bigby
This is Rigby

[vague jacinth]

Who‘s bigsby?

[hard sigil]

Bigby is a character from dungeons and dragons

it's part of the crossover

[vague jacinth]

Ohhh.

[hard sigil]

here he is using said fist to punch a griffon

actually I think that's a giant vulture or something but that's besides the point

his whole gimmick is that all the spells he's invented use giant hands. and that he died and had to be reincarnated as a gnome

[slim girder]

https://tenor.com/view/spell-dn-d-hand-bigby-hand-gif-21763419

[icy grove]

How much does savathun know about the darkness?

[vague jacinth]

How much does a dollar cost?

[hard sigil]

quite a lot. she was lined up to become Rhulks replacement before her betraying the Witness during the collapse

[icy grove]

I see

There's more to darkness than just stasis and strand right?

[vague jacinth]

Who‘s Rhulk?

[hard sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/rhulk-gif-25197896

[vague jacinth]

I heard his name, but don‘t know how he looks like.

[vague jacinth]

Rhulk?

[blazing wasp]

a lot more

[icy grove]

Enlighten me oh ukulele

[hard sigil]

First Disciple of the Witness, creator of the Upended, and raid boss of Vow

[blazing wasp]

how to put it...

To understand, i first gotta explain light

[icy grove]

I know there's the dark sight thingy

[blazing wasp]

light/dark arent "good/evil"

[icy grove]

I know that

[blazing wasp]

light relates mostly to the physical hence why every light ability has close ties to physics

darkness is more the psychological, the mental

[icy grove]

Yes

Se

[blazing wasp]

which is a lot more broad

[hard sigil]

just as the light encompasses all of the physical universe, the dark encompasses all that is immaterial

[blazing wasp]

we only know of a small handful of darkness stuff

stasis, strand, resonance, and deepsight

[icy grove]

Resonance?

[blazing wasp]

we're not quite sure about the darkness relationship with nightmares i think

[hard sigil]

the orange stuff the pyramids use

[icy grove]

Oh

[blazing wasp]

more or less "pure" darkness, its the orange darkness stuff

[icy grove]

That would be a fire subclass

[hard sigil]

Eris' theory is that it's just some otherwise untapped area of the darkness that Nezzy discovered

[slim girder]

Eris speculates it's an untapped power of darkness.

[blazing wasp]

thing is, its just "raw" darkness, so it wouldnt really make for a funky subclass actually

[blazing wasp]

ah

[icy grove]

Psh

[blazing wasp]

oh theres also taken, thats darkness

[icy grove]

Nuh uh

[icy grove]

Rly?

[hard sigil]

anything to do with the mind and soul

[icy grove]

Fair enough

[hard sigil]

a lot of the underlying power of destiny comes from the concept of Will

[blazing wasp]

stasis more so than other subclasses too

[vague jacinth]

Is mayonnaise also a part of darkness?

[hard sigil]

it's just as important as the concept of paracausality in my opinion

[blazing wasp]

its like shouting at the universe to play red light green light with you

[blazing wasp]

no, patrick, mayonnaise is not part of the darkness.

[hard sigil]

no that's just an emulsion of egg and oil

[vague jacinth]

Mayonnaise seems so evil tho.

[hard sigil]

cough

[blazing wasp]

the fact its "ice" appears to be due to conceptions

airquotes on ice because its not ice

just looks like ice, acts like "freezing"

[vague jacinth]

It‘s Arnie‘s Freeze jokes.

[hard sigil]

crystallizations formed by an approach to a lack of entropy

[vague jacinth]

„What killed the dinosaurs?“ „THE ICE AGE!!“

[blazing wasp]

ironically, BOTW makes a reasonable example of how D2's stasis works

said ability in BOTW is also called stasis

(almost like its called stasis for a reason)

[hard sigil]

well that's because Zelda stasis is literally freezing time

just relative to an object

[icy grove]

Isnt stasis like solidified control or something of the sort

[blazing wasp]

its not too far off what D2 stasis does

[blazing wasp]

yes, and its also what deer said

[vague jacinth]

Time.

[slim girder]

Imagine if by enforcing my will onto you I can cause everything molecule in your body to stop. Even down to the atoms in those molecules.
That's stasis

[hard sigil]

you exert your control over the universe, which in turn throttles the entropy (randomness) of the area

[blazing wasp]

Stasis is the closest thing we can get to "applying cold"

[icy grove]

Oh yeah? What if I mash circle

[hard sigil]

that's you enforcing your will back in a tug of war

[vague jacinth]

I have this.

[blazing wasp]

thing is, stasis isnt "cold" like, the way cold works, not quite

it is "cold" but not the way a freezer would be cold

for starters, stasis doesnt make your cells fucking explode when youre frozen

[hard sigil]

the time scars on mars aren't time travel, they're just a very advanced application of deepsight

[icy grove]

It's cold because when stuff doesn't move it's cold

[hard sigil]

which is to say it's the memory of pre-collapse mars

[blazing wasp]

stasis is also "temporary", iirc

as in, if i put something hot in stasis, it "thaws" and is still hot

id need a correction on that if anyone recalls otherwise

as if on queue

[trim grotto]

Strand isn't String Theory. And the middle point of the Garden is simply incorrect.

[slim elk]

Closest is Eramis being in the freezer for about a year

Longest use we've seen

[hard sigil]

and also this image misunderstands darkness as just more complex applications of physics, rather than it being immaterial

[blazing wasp]

if she was regularly frozen, she'd just die

[slim girder]

Cool thing about stasis as of recently is that bael uses giant crystals to cool the eclipse core in nightfall station.
What better way to cool something than to freeze the molecules which through movement generate heat.

[slim elk]

Yep
Was using your metaphors

[blazing wasp]

ah

[hard sigil]

I guess really the best way to describe stasis freezing is "Stops" rather than freeze

[blazing wasp]

red light green light with the universe

[slim elk]

It ceases motion

[hard sigil]

its just slightly more accurate

[slim elk]

That's what temperature actually is

[icy grove]

Because hot stuff moves faster

[blazing wasp]

it "pauses" temperature rather than reducing it

energy is "halted", rather than removed

like pausing in a video game

[slim elk]

Paracausally so you don't get the typical effects from going to and from extremes

(Freezer burn)

[blazing wasp]

if it just removed all the energy, Stasis would be unreasonably overpowered

it would oneshot every enemy

[icy grove]

Buff my man stasis

[slim elk]

That's the latest craze with Eclipse energy
Anything paracausal straight up dies. Both Light and Dark

[blazing wasp]

ye

[hard sigil]

mfw i get liquified in the crucible from the crystallization of my cells rupturing them all

[blazing wasp]

well, it drains all the light and dark, which will kill you as a guardian

if it hit bael it might just... make him unable to use stasis

[hard sigil]

hence why eido is ok

[slim elk]

Just don't let Exos anywhere near it

[hard sigil]

oh yeah actually that's a good point

[blazing wasp]

would it vexify the alkehest doohickey?

[hard sigil]

it probably would have killed all the exos in the city. so much for bael leaving citizens unharmed

[blazing wasp]

imagine seeing your friend get blasted with a red beam, and see it be replaced by a fucking goblin

[hard sigil]

I don't think the Radiolaria would survive the process

[slim elk]

Tharsis gamblers glare at you

[blazing wasp]

realistically i assume no

as i assume the statue removed the vex stuff rather than make it temporarily neutralised as long as its present

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure how much effect it would have on Exo. Alkahest isn't Darkness in and of itself, it's Radiolarian Fluid that's been transformed by Darkness. Simplified, as Clovis put it.

[blazing wasp]

i wanna say initially the awoken might get fucked by the beam, but they survived it, it seems

since we had some corsairs before and after

[hard sigil]

i wonder if it literally just like. devolved it with weird deepsight usage

[slim elk]

The stuff control-alt-deleted Guardians on contact. It's probably going to have some effect just from being a universal anti-paracausal thing

We've seen Guardians survive after being cut off from Light. So eclipse seems to nullify all effects

Ontological inertia gets canceled

[hard sigil]

what Mael means is that Clarity was a tool that was used on Radiolaria to create Alkahest, and that it [darkness]'s not present in exos themselves

I do have a feeling that Clarity is deepsight in some form and not entirely it's own thing. it stands to reason that you cannot go from A->B->A if you're manipulating the memory of the object

[slim elk]

Put it this way
A Guardian should logically drop dead if the Light is the only thing keeping them alive once a Ghost is destroyed.

It doesn't work that way so they still have a functional body though maybe not immortality anymore

[hard sigil]

I think the issue is that we still had Ghost during the red war, and therefore some amount of light still flowing through us to keep us alive, we were just cut off from the largest source and direct connection to the traveller

whilst Eclipse kills ghosts

[slim elk]

"Zavela"

Osiris

[hard sigil]

what about them

[slim elk]

Both Ghosts Dead. Still living

[hard sigil]

and they still have light in their bodies

they're still paracausal by nature as ressurected beings

if they were but by eclipse I'm sure they'd die

eclipse seems to just remove paracausality from the equation entirely, rendering anything it hits causal

ghosts are powered by light and die, guardians are brought back by the light and therefore return to their 'natural' state, a corpse

it would be interesting to see what happens if a guardian is hit by eclipse whilst their ghost isn't

and if they'd be able to resurrect them

[blazing wasp]

well, we've seen what happens when a guardians light is "drained" like that

ghosts cant revive em

[slim girder]

Most likely not. It completely nullifies their light and you can even see their crumpled also withered bodies.
It's a very similar fate to joxer and his ghost stayed behind to resurrect as well but couldn't after what happened to joxer

[hard sigil]

true

[slim girder]

As bael said it "hollows" them out. So all the light making up that guardian is destroyed and the guardian along with it. It's a much more violent process compared to the simple cutting off of light we've seen a couple times

One severs the connection while allowing it to be reconnected. The other completely destroys it

[vague jacinth]

Oryx had a point.

[icy grove]

How free were the hive?

Like could they just fuck off and go chill in the tower if they wanted or is it like a hive mind

[vague jacinth]

Prolly a hive mind.

[slim girder]

They can act dependant of each other but it would be a bad idea because unless they tithe they will die

Lukaku is a unique example of a hive who broke away

[icy grove]

Tithe?

[blazing wasp]

only savathuns brood can actually just decide to be chill with us

[blazing wasp]

how much do you know about "the sword logic"

[icy grove]

Is that the one that helps us in the dlc

[blazing wasp]

yep

[icy grove]

[blazing wasp]

i take it not a lot

[icy grove]

Idk what it is

[slim girder]

@icy grove TLDR
Hive must tithe to the worms inside their bodies as well as their respective gods.
No tithing means the worm inside them will consume their body killing them