📚lore-discussion

[hallow horizon]

(learning abt the awoken lore rn) wait so Sjur was unable to kill Mara because she was too gay?

that's so awesome

[jagged badge]

[hallow horizon]

for real

also is wish ender the weapon Sjur used or what?

yeah must be

[hard sigil]

yes

[hallow horizon]

the timeline is kinda crazy to me

like it's weird how late some stuff happened and how early some other stuff happened

confusing

also where'd the vex originally come from?

[hard sigil]

if you take unveiling to heart, the original flower game. if not, somewhere in the universe.

we don't really know or have the ability to know how much of the universe is Vex

[hallow horizon]

so they've just kinda always been there?

[hard sigil]

pretty much

[hallow horizon]

alright

[hard sigil]

especially because of their ability to retroactively insert themselves using timelines

the traveller terraformed Venus, but then suddenly vex architecture pulled from another timeline where they'd been there for longer than humanity had existed appeared

it was originally thought that they just simply travelled backwards in time and did that but it's been debunked due to bungie deciding Vex can only move sideways through time and not forward or back (outside of very specific cases like the vault of glass and the infinite forest)

but generally we've known the vex to be present in the solar system since at least the golden age

[hallow horizon]

what in the fuck does sideways through time mean

😭

[hard sigil]

they can access alternative timelines, but those timelines are still in the present

[hallow horizon]

ah

so they just changing timelines?

[hard sigil]

yeah

for instance Maya likely pulled her red legion soldiers from a timeline where theres a lot of red legion around still

because in ours, the red legion is now mostly deserters or rogue units using old, outdated tech from the red war

[hallow horizon]

rightt

anyways it's so crazy how stuff I would've never guessed is associated with eachother

like iron lords and siva

and rasputin

[ember storm]

well associated is a strong word there

the iron lords wanted to use siva as a resource so rasputin used it as a trap to kill them all

[steady socket]

rip castor 😢

sentient ai taking over humanity

[hallow horizon]

I mean like connected

[slow berry]

That's kinda funny bc one of the first things we ever knew about the Iron Lords was they died by getting omega mogged by SIVA and Rasputin

[hallow horizon]

well from just that you can see how out of touch I was

I never payed attention to any stuff basically

so in my mind I just connected stuff with things that felt like could be connected

and the iron lords and siva was not something I connected in my so called headcanon

[slow berry]

Basically we just had iron banner as an event in D1 with some vague lore about them being Iron Lords during the dark age

And then Rise of Iron was when we got any info on them

[dapper moss]

so what do we think about dredgen sere

[slim girder]

<@&1019968308973416448> hope it's ok to ping for this but are we allowed to talk about the dungeon or its bosses yet?

[primal mason]

I have no issues

[slim girder]

Ok. Just checking is all since the dungeon only came out 2 hours ago

[dapper moss]

and was beat 2 hours ago

[slim girder]

I saw

That was damn quick

[calm granite]

If it's been released it's all good 🙂 and we domt apply spoiler rules on things other than main cintent droos

[slim girder]

Ok. Thanks for clarifying

[dapper moss]

is drifter a titan?

[slim girder]

Nah he'd be warlock i think

[frigid sparrow]

He's obviously a hunter

[slow berry]

drifter is a tihunlock

[mellow merlin]

Just read the new dungeon sparrow lore

What’s bael looking for on the moon?

[trim grotto]

Cheese

[queen swallow]

Another wizard

[frigid sparrow]

the three major things within the moon are:
the remnants of crota's reign of destruction, particularly within the hellmouth
the pyramid of nezarec
whatever's going on with the hidden swarm and zulmak's trials beneath the scarlet keep

now, Sere did also say "and beyond" so he's very likely trying to find anything hive/darkness related

[jagged badge]

He isn’t any class

[slim girder]

Possibly the pyramid. Might also be something inside crotas temple

[hallow horizon]

how are you a guardian without a class?

[dim minnow]

The class system is just a way for us to organize and consolidate our powers into simple and understandable disciplines

[hallow horizon]

I thought that when you were reborn as a guardian it automatically assigned you one of the classes

that's what it seems like from the byf vid at least

[slim girder]

No. It's all about expression of power and values

Titans value being the wall for the city and a sense of duty
Hunters value freedom and exploration.
Warlocks value learning arcane sources of power and knowledge

And so their abilities emphasise that

[hallow horizon]

right

and drifter values nothing

got it

[slim girder]

Drifter values money and food

And Eris

[hallow horizon]

does he have abilities about money and food then?

instead of dodging or making a shield or placing a rift or whatever he eats a hotgod

[hard sigil]

god I just woke up and all the clips I've seen make it hard to tell is Sere a human or like a Psion or something

ok yeah no that's straight up a person

[dapper moss]

how do yall figure harrow got his hand on the praxic blades

[slim girder]

We found ours in a praxic temple. The imperium here must have ransacked this new temple.

There are also artefacts missing which are part of the quest.

[dapper moss]

ah

could sere be a taken techeun?

that's also a dredgen?

really feels like a silly copout

i don't really like the implications

[slim girder]

He's a lightbearer. But there's lore as to why he's a lot bigger.

I assume based on that lore he consumed someone's soul or something

Like he drained them and dropped their lifeless body on the ground

[dapper moss]

jesus

that's some darth nihilus shit

[slim girder]

He is literally a Sith lord. Big and with plenty of lightning

[dapper moss]

what i'm saying is i dont really like how they're just rebranding the dredgens to be the sith

[slim girder]

I don't think it's that really. Like Bael has a praxic blade and stasis. But Sere could fit anywhere else as just a new breed of dredgen

Dredgens are changing and that does push the destiny narrative

It's just with the backdrop of the imperium it definitely feels like a Sith copy

Sere is the first non hive lightbearer we've fought, that's quite a big thing

[dim minnow]

I feel like the new Dredgens are trying to be more like what the Shadows of Yor were meant to be if Vale hadn't culled the corrupted ones

[slim girder]

That's also a good way to look at it.

This is like the shadows of yor but if they were actually carrying yors legacy forward instead

[shy remnant]

I think bro is a reskin of a hive wizard

I guess it’s appropriate but gawd damn he’s tall

Do people still play basketball in the last city?

[slim girder]

Again there is lore reasoning for his size at least

[hallow horizon]

CAYDE HAS A SON???

reading through some random characters in destinypedia and this is fucking shocking

[slim girder]

Yes. His son in his life before becoming a guardian

Ace of spades was his way of remebering him

It's why he talks about cards lots

[hallow horizon]

that's so crazy

I like that

[slim girder]

Ace of spades his son, Queen of hearts his wife

[hallow horizon]

right interesting

[hard sigil]

technically his model is built off of Nokris

[slim girder]

He also used cards to keep track of stashes. Spades for Hakkes, Diamonds for crux lomar

[hallow horizon]

cool

[slow berry]

Kinda sorta?

Last I personally knew, it was in a bit of a limbo with the whole fragmented memories stuff

[trim grotto]

Cayde did have a kid and partner when he was human. The whole thing is how Cayde emotionally latched onto them despite not actually knowing them. He fell in love with the idea of them.

[ember storm]

Unrelated but chickens live maximum 10 years so Colonel is not long for this world either

[hard sigil]

nah lifespans tripled in the golden age he'll be fine /j

[shy remnant]

If he gets raised he’ll be an infinite source of food

[next bobcat]

are we aware of roughly how many guardians there are? is it just the all time player count?

[hallow horizon]

At least 5

[next bobcat]

damn

[slow berry]

actually its at least six because of raids

[hallow horizon]

Well I'm gonna make a crazy guess and say it's over 7 then

[hard sigil]

6 for the raid teams they mention if you haven't done the raid, and 1 for The Guardian

[slim girder]

Nine

[hallow horizon]

Yeh

[slim girder]

So they're using arc energy to try and power a throne world in the dungeon.
Wonder if that throne world is supposed to be what will house VI and that is its means of escape. Though I'm still trying to think how arc energy could be used to do that.

Also curious as to what truths are under Luna if that's where Bael is headed next. Either there's something more within the Luna pyramid, something else inside crotas temple or they could even be investigating the vex portal to the black garden.

Lot of stuff of interest still left in Luna

[hard sigil]

what like. a power cord. god VI REALLY doesn't know how sword logic works

but! that means my theory was right and I successfully called the basic premise of this plotline back in eof

[slim girder]

They kinda half achieved it looks like but now that we stopped them that throne world with no power should in theory just collapse

And it was pretty small already. Like it wasn't much bigger than even the mindbenders throne world.

[hard sigil]

just hook it up to a car battery it should be fine

a throne street

[slim girder]

A throne dumpster like Tolands little hut lol

[grave moon]

Who the hell is dredgen sere?

He kind of just showed up in the dungeon did I miss something by not buying edge of fate?

[slim girder]

Dredgen Sere is an apprentice of Dredgen Bael

[grave moon]

Ok thank you

[slim girder]

He's been recruiting and training new dredgens in renegades to achieve his goal

[river surge]

Dredgen Bael took Sere

Then Sere has Harrow

Then Harrow has his own disciple from Fire and Ice mission

What a cool detail

[dapper moss]

bael took sere?

how?

VI?

[slim girder]

Not take as in taken.
Like "took under his wing"

[dapper moss]

ah

[slim girder]

I basically never visit the hangar so had no idea what looks like the eliksni quarter is becoming more and more developed.

[river surge]

Also where is our Last City located?

South America

Or smth like that?

[slim girder]

Think I heard a long time ago that it was like in Finland or something

I have no idea how accurate that actually is tho

[river surge]

Oh

So we basically have no clue

[slim girder]

Pretty much. Best we've gotten was when we went to the seraph station above earth.

[trim grotto]

South America. We've got rather hefty documentation on it, pleasingly.

[trim grotto]

That isn't the Eliksni Quarter

[slim girder]

It isn't?

[trim grotto]

No. The Eliksni Quarter, formerly known as the Botza District, is firmly within the Last City. It was a district heavily damaged and subsequently abandoned by the Red War.

Watch the Scourge of the Past Raid some time. It's the same zone.

[slim girder]

Ok then. I knew it was the botsa district yes (played scourge so saw it be developed)
But I still thought it was sorta outside the city.

They took quite a while to dismantle insurrection prime.

[trim grotto]

Those structures out there have always been there, but we don't know specifically what they are.

I've always found them curious

[river surge]

More exactly where tho

Chile?

[slim girder]

Again I don't visit the hangar like ever so it looked new to me

[river surge]

Cause we got that mountian range and I can tell them being the Andes

[trim grotto]

Yes, the Andes is a big key note. One moment.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wocCs25nbFuIIhJhtnvSYDTOyDOsl8dMXFVU3GTL_bU/edit?usp=drivesdk

[river surge]

Yoo

[trim grotto]

For the record, while described as a theory, it is only such insomuch as we don't have specific map coordinates. We are certain it's South America.

[river surge]

Also any clue why the timezone on Cosmodrone is exactly like in um Last City,

?

[trim grotto]

Cosmodrome's in Russia/Kazakhstan. Suspend your disbelief a little for that one.

[river surge]

Yeah right

[trim grotto]

Also, perhaps ironically, I find that Seraph Station is the least useful information on the South America theory. The visual reference is muddled, it's mush, useless material. If it wasn't supporting our pre-existing theory due to matching mountain material, it'd be largely dismissed because the actual overarching landscapes amount to gibberish.

[river surge]

So basically The Traveler set its spot in South America when it came to humanity thats actually cool

[trim grotto]

Nice to not be the USA for once haha

[river surge]

Frrrr

[trim grotto]

Oh fun fact
EDZ, at least our playable area, is Switzerland, near the German border

That should also be within that document if I recall, further down

Eruke and I had a jolly good time figuring that one out

[slim girder]

We might be going to Old Chicago soon finally based on Lodis last conversation with us.

But what I really want to see is Australia. Because there's been plenty of tidbits of lore about it.

[river surge]

Thats actually cool

I always thought edz is located somewhere in Germany, Swiss, Italy

[lofty badge]

So anyone else just not sided With the Pikers given how they backstabbed us in that one campaign mission?

[dim minnow]

Tbh their Falcon is pretty fire and they sell the Mando sniper so I like them

[hallow horizon]

Wait this shit kinda crazy

Playing through EoF

Seek how Ikora died

[dim minnow]

Also, it's pretty funny that Riliks, their leader, is trying to date Eido

[hallow horizon]

*seeing

[lofty badge]

yee

[lofty badge]

oh noo

[lofty badge]

yeah

also is the Totality Division a full on Imperium splinter faction now?

that fights both the Syndicates and the Imperium more openly than before?

[queen walrus]

“Show me the fire that burns within you”
Maybe when dawnblade has more interesting aspects

I always live hearing the praxic say stuff like that but i feel ao ineffective. I wish you ciuld follow up icarus dash with a daybreak sword slash that boosts swords/meepee damage

[river surge]

Just a small fact

We are actually using Vaapad as our praxic blade form

[slim elk]

Form 7
Bungie like that number

[river surge]

Yeah

[dim minnow]

The Totality Division still has ties to the Imperium despite having their own agenda

[river surge]

And we are changing the forms based on which guard u use

[dim minnow]

So the form actually changes our animations?

[river surge]

In theory it should but I dont they added special animations for each

It just a small detail

that we are using both offense and defense

[dim minnow]

So the animations we use ingame are based on Vapaad?

[river surge]

Yep

That one big strike u do

its a special move for vaapad

[dim minnow]

That actually has lore significance

Vapaad is all about controlling your inner Darkness and using it for good

[river surge]

Yeah

[lofty badge]

got cha

[slim elk]

We have sorta learnt that lesson a few years ago lol

It's the praxics themselves being the diehard zealots these days

[river surge]

Yeah

[river surge]

It wouldve been cool if we could use meele attacks and kicks using lightsaber

[trim grotto]

"Finally, my potent energy blade that can cut through matter! Nobody will be able to withstand it when I, instead, kick their shins real hard."

[river surge]

Imagine hitting a cabal with the lightsaber and the punching him in the face

[river surge]

For titans I would say it could work the best

[blazing wasp]

kicks and other such melee attacks using blades were only done as they were faster at the time

"switching to your kicks is faster than reloading your claymore swing"

[river surge]

Fair enough

[warm zephyr]

how did eris become a hive god and why?

[trim grotto]

Well, that was sort of the entire plot of Season of the Witch. Were you around for that?

[warm zephyr]

uhh I dont think so

i started playing just before edge of fate

I played the witch queen dlc but I dont think it saw her become a god in that

[trim grotto]

Dova made a bunch of recaps which we have in the pinned messages. Alternatively, try this for a summary of the Season.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1d699ah/season_of_the_witch_recap/

[trim grotto]

Season of the Witch happened quite some time later, as the third Season of the Lightfall year.

[dim minnow]

I should makes ones for TFS year and EoF

[gaunt imp]

Eris Morn evoked some ritual with worms, and she became the Hive god of Vengeance, and required us to kill enemies in Savathuns Court of Thorns, to tithe unto Eris so she may become the strongest Hive god and deal with Xivu Arath

In the end Eris became so strong, she then killed Savathun and for a moment she became probably stronger then Oryx, Savathun, and Xivu Arath

And banished Xivu Arath from her throne world "Black Terrace"

So then Savathun got revived by her Ghost, and we discovered the 15th wish

Which led to Season of the Wish

Where Techeuns summoned the spirit of Riven

And Riven decided to bargain with Queen Mara Sov

If she is to grant our 15th wish, we must save her eggs so that her species has a future

When we did, Crow walked into the Portal Riven made as the beacon of sorts

And that's when he and Cayde 6 met and had a little standoff then became buddies cause common enemy

The end

[frigid sparrow]

so, harrow's basically one of the strongest characters since he can use two exotics at once

[queen swallow]

Chat, do they know?

[slim girder]

Plot twist it's one and dual praxic blades is a single exotic we'll get later

[frigid sparrow]

"Two of them? You're greedy."

[slim girder]

Nothing wrong with a lil greed

[frigid sparrow]

yeah, Sere found it amusing too

[hard sigil]

ok so Sere isn't a lightbearer

that makes sense

[dapper moss]

so hows he doing all that shit

[hard sigil]

taken abilities

Aunor specifically says at the start of the dungeon that there are no lightbearers so Sere cannot be one

and it would also explain the lack of a ghost

[hard sigil]

as displayed in the sparrow's lore

they're teaching prospective dredgens how to utilise taken energy

[slim girder]

He's using taken and arc energy to form a throne world

[hard sigil]

"To be a Dredgen is to have will!" Sere roared. "A self, honed and pure! You are nothing but a body pretending to be a person!"
is also very familiar thematically to the taken

though I wonder if the whisper in the dark is the winnower or tloen

[frigid sparrow]

winnower should still just be watching

[river surge]

We havent heard of The Winnower

For a long time

I wonder what his reaction is regarding tloen

[frigid sparrow]

"fuck are you looking at me for I didn't know they could do that either"

[river surge]

We are actually

So cooked

With these new expansions that are coming

Also what chances are there for tloen being the 2nd knife of the winnower?

[hard sigil]

eh unlikely

we don't know what it wants, if it can even want at all

[slim girder]

I wouldn't really say a long time.
Last message from it was back in heresy.
The nine however we didn't hear about them from arrivals all the way to heresy.

[rotund meteor]

If the Light and Darkness are not moral forces but rule sets of reality, then was the Witness actually attempting to complete the Traveler’s original function by enforcing a Final Shape rather than opposing it? If the Traveler’s gift of infinite possibility inevitably leads to infinite suffering, does a forced Final Shape represent mercy or cowardice?🤔

[slim girder]

It represents the end of all things.
Suffering is one of the many parts of the universe and the witness wanted to end all of it in pursuit of what it thought was right

[queen swallow]

It is mercy in the loss of suffering and it is cowardice in the loss of compassion/love

[rotund meteor]

I agree with both, thats the tragedy of the Witness. The Final Shape is mercy if suffering is your only metric but it’s also an admission that love, meaning, and compassion aren’t worth the risk of freedom. The Witness didn’t try to save the universe from pain. It tried to save itself from uncertainty

[hard sigil]

light and dark are not moral forces, but those who wield them are susceptible to their own ideology

the witness saw the universe, life and the light as meaningless and chaotic, and living in it as suffering. So, it sought the means to reform it in its own image; a perfect, ordered shape. A moment of purpose. This was generally frowned upon by everyone that didn't share this worldview

[fluid peak]

I know raids are canonically 6 person endeavours, are dungeons the same? (Obviously they'd be a team of 3, but I can't remember off the top of my head if The Guardian solos them or not)

[blazing wasp]

P sure it's actually not confirmed!

[hard sigil]

yeah I cannot think of a single time a dungeon was plot relevant and not just some random side-tangent. they usually just flesh out existing lore or tell side stories

I guess maybe spire was important

and has only become more important since

[fluid peak]

Do the gotd entries mention it at all? I seem to recall one of the hidden talking about us finding oryx's body

[hard sigil]

and Vesper but that's more of a teaser than anything

[hard sigil]

iirc it was just Chalco and Fenchurch because they were responsible for recovering the body

oh and lisbon-3

so I guess you could consider them the canon dungeon team? but they take a different route to get there, using an eliknsi vessel for part of the trip

[jagged badge]

That team is sent to the site after us. They aren’t the ones that cleared the dungeon

[fluid peak]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/boots-of-the-taken-king#taken-king-suit-warlock

AHA

'guardians' implies it was probably a full fireteam

[hard sigil]

"Initial entry matches the Guardian's description, a… theater? Psychometer is picking up weird background noise here." —Hidden Mindscape Expedition 1st Transmission
implies that duality was canonically soloed by us
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/deep-explorer-helmet#deep-explorer-suit-titan

[queen walrus]

my beloved Exotic

[gray lagoon]

i always thought the ghosts were made for specific guaridans... is ther the case or do they pick their guardian

[queen swallow]

Ghost chooses Guardian

[ember storm]

Ghosts only feel a specific pull to one individual

If they could pick and choose any corpse they’d never have to look anywhere, they’d just camp graveyards

[queen walrus]

love the praxic banners in the temple. Its always gonna feel bittersweet with the star wars influence and bungie will probably never do much else with the Praxics. Im really Hoping they bring back HotPF. Its my fav item of all time, or most obsessed over (wasn't that good but it was the main sunsinger exotic and i love dark souls)

maaaaan the vibe is so on point of what i would have loved for the praxics. Like the dialogue and everything but the star wars paint over it kills it a ton.

Grabbing artifacts like im collecting them in skyrim and bringing them to the vigilants of stendar or something. Id be singing a different tune if this was a dark souls crossover probably but really wish it was all destiny.

[dim minnow]

Even with the Star Wars inspiration I still feel that they did a good job at keeping it distinctly Destiny

[ember storm]

I haven’t played renegades how does it look

[dapper kayak]

the campaign isn't a miserable experience to do unlike eof

it's actually quite fun

[ember storm]

I didn’t play that one either

These statements mean nothing to me

[ember storm]

Is that Europa

[queen swallow]

Yes

And the tree one is Venus

hm, I can find better images

[ember storm]

Don’t understand

Is there not a new destination

[queen swallow]

Nope

Not a new planet, at least

[ember storm]

Peculiar

[queen swallow]

Mars is a rehash of an old location, Venus and Europa we've been to but not these areas

Stealing these from IGN

Apart from the very obvious lightsaber, this is about as "Star Wars" as it gets

[dapper kayak]

that and the main characters being obvious as fuck connections to star wars

and the alarms on the barant imperium ships

[dapper kayak]

and the fucking jabba's castle in the background of this

[queen swallow]

Sure, if you want to nitpick, you could find dozens of things referencing Star Wars. It's not hard. But usually they're in the background enough that, unless you're actively thinking of it, you probably wouldn't notice

I mean, the entire first mission is just "The Greatest Hits of A New Hope, Vol. 1" but with Destiny characters instead

[dapper kayak]

ye

[queen swallow]

But the actual cosmetics, like the Vader one, I feel are more Star Wars esque than this

[dapper kayak]

ye

def

[hallow horizon]

banshee-44 is WHAT

this all is so shocking

[ember storm]

Who

[hallow horizon]

wdym who? who banshee-44 is?

[queen swallow]

Banshee is Clovis Bray

[hallow horizon]

yeah it's so crazy to me

[dapper kayak]

BANSHEE IS FUCKING CLOVIS?

[hard sigil]

yeah

technically

he's very much his own person

and hates Clovis

[dim minnow]

so towards the end of the Golden Age, when the Vex were invading Europa, Clovis made 2 scans of his brain. He put one into an Exo body, named Clovis-1, and the other was made into Clovis AI

of course, Clovis-1 didn't really have the memories of Clovis, so when Clovis AI offered to tell in who he was in exchange for his help in preventing anyone from fleeing Europa, he said no

then some events happen where the exos fight back against the Vex and shut off the Glassway portal with clovis AI's reluctant help

during the fighting, Clovis-1 aling with other exos had to be constantly rebooted after falling in battle repeatedly which put a lot of strain on the Deep Stone Crypt's systems

by the time the war ended, Clovis-1 was up to Clovis-43

at that point, he didn't want to continue living on knowing he was Clovis Bray, so he had Elsie reboot him one last time, and so Banshee-44 was born

he was called Banshee because of his wailing during the battle

he was a badass with the Lament

anyways, the sheer number of reboots and the strained Crypt systems were the reason why he has memory issues

[trim grotto]

Gotta do the Beyond Light post campaign there, friend

[slim girder]

Was reading through the dungeon lore again. Looks like there is another lightbearer among their ranks

Thahaaz. She had a ghost named beetle but crushed them. She doesn't have a dredgen name tho.

[lofty badge]

Do the dredgen under Bael not even consider the fact humanity or a large part of humanity will go extinct if all Lightbearers (Not counting lucent brood) are killed?

then again they all cooked in the head

[hard sigil]

well the fun part about cults is that they're inherently irrational

and we know that not everyone Sere was teaching was human

[lofty badge]

true and yeah

like i agree the vanguard should not be in power like they are now, but that can be fix by going to the people "Hey guys lets organize elections to have mortal leadership again"

[hard sigil]

and I'm fairly sure anyone willing to learn sword logic and wield taken energy doesn't really care

[lofty badge]

yeah

Sword logic is not combitable with regular human civilzation

so pretty much mortal humans or awoken/exo who join the Dredgen under bael gives up their own humanity

if they are of human origin i mean

[hard sigil]

I wonder if they recruited literally every gladiator the imperium had and that's why they're not regular units

[lofty badge]

perhaps

we don't even see Gladiators among the Regular forces of the Imperium

[hard sigil]

yeah that's what I'm saying

it's literally just Harrow and the nameless apprentices

[lofty badge]

yeah

so you might be right there

[hard sigil]

my guess is that their recruitment was mostly gladiators with the stray human mixed in every now and then

[slim elk]

TBF
They literally just pulled the perfect anti light weapon out of nowhere.. and darkness is pretty much broken with the witness dead

[hard sigil]

wasn't out of nowhere and darkness is a seperate force from the witness

[lofty badge]

yeah the darkness just needs powerful wielders

and what not

[slim elk]

"Pulled out of nine imposed time loop"

[lofty badge]

pocket realms where time is wacky? yes

so not really out of no where as it is explained lol

even if it can be considered cheap

[hard sigil]

the red legion has displayed multiple times that they have light suppressing technology that they've miniaturized, which was further advanced with the witness and shadow legion to create pylons that suppressed both light and dark. it's perfectly reasonable that with the decades and access to dark matter that they had, they could have developed Eclipse

[slim elk]

Still be funny to say it like that..
And it's a huge escalation when the paracausal forces are seeing en mass counters with tech

[lofty badge]

yeah exactly, we know they use calus's cloning tech too

[lofty badge]

lol

they had who knows how many decades to breed legions of cloned soldiers along with naturel born ones too in those time pocket realms

[hard sigil]

and we know they've been in displacement since at least witch queen

[slim elk]

Quite dangerous when your enemy be willing to experiment... and hit the jackpot

[lofty badge]

yeah

[hard sigil]

it's interesting to hear about how because of this, there's less and less Barant that actually remember torobatl, despite it being the main reason for the Imperium's existence

[slim elk]

The City has always had a problem with that
Great Disaster happened because they refused to actually look into what the Hive were capable of despite Shaxx warnings

[lofty badge]

yeah, i also wonder, are Barant a title, a culture among Cabal or is it a Cabal subspeices?

[hard sigil]

Barant is the species

we finally got the name for them after 10 years

[lofty badge]

ohhh Barant is the naturel name of the Cabal

that makes so much sense with the name of the Imperium now lol

[slim elk]

Yep
The actual name like Eliskni

[lofty badge]

yee

[slim elk]

Not something we labeled them as

[lofty badge]

fair lol

[hard sigil]

Cabal is just the overarching name for the entire empire, which includes the Barant, Psions, and other species

[lofty badge]

yee

[slim elk]

(Another case of Destiny humanity not bothering to learn anything lol)

[lofty badge]

i have always just called the barant for the cabal xd

[lofty badge]

It was the same in the halo days lol

"Nah lets just call these aliens our own name for em"

[slim elk]

It's more explicit these days since we had caital on comms for... 3 years now?

[lofty badge]

yep

since season of the chosen

[hard sigil]

to be fair they've only referred to themselves as the Cabal the entire time we've known them

[slim elk]

On screen anyway.

[hard sigil]

they only use Barant on their own battlenet

[slim elk]

And how many times we hacked into that courtesy of ghost?

[lofty badge]

lol

[hard sigil]

fair point lol

[lofty badge]

i wonder how much of the system the Imperium controls tho, even with Nightfall blowing up they still have stupid amount of manpower

[slim elk]

I mean
In a more serious point Sere found out the Praxic stuff also reacted to darkness safely

[lofty badge]

true

[slim elk]

So.. yeah. The Praxics really are just pains to actual research and development

[lofty badge]

they still go "noo only light!" While we out here using Prismatic for almost two years now

[hard sigil]

honestly it's very impressive that they learnt to convert Praxic Blades into weapons of sorrow

[lofty badge]

yeah

[lofty badge]

We should do that with Cabal Drop pods

[slim elk]

Dredgens be willing to experiment
It's only in the last 5 years in verse the City is shaking off extreme dogma lol

[lofty badge]

yeah lol

i just hope the Vanguard takes steps to re elect a civlian goverment again XD

[slim elk]

Unlikely
Remember the last government explicitly had a faction whose platform was to replace everything with a single dictator for life...

Ain't very stable lol

[hard sigil]

considering weapons of sorrow as we know them are purely hive manufactured or derived, it's strange to think that they can be made purely by the infusement of darkness into just... anything?

[lofty badge]

oh lol

[hard sigil]

I guess it makes sense. they'd have to make them somehow

[lofty badge]

does Weapons of Sorrow usealy not involve hive magic?

too

i mean

[hard sigil]

no, they always do

[slim elk]

Also pretty sure Thorn was a human made gun before the Hive happen

[hard sigil]

Thorn was created by the hive (by corrupting rose), Osteo was based off of Thorn

[lofty badge]

so, wtf the Vanguard gonna do to solve it XD? Nothing?

[hard sigil]

and both necrochasm and touch of malice were created using parts of ascendant hive

[slim elk]

Yep
A highly realistic depiction of politicians and governments in general lol

[blazing wasp]

Yor before he was yor was basically the divorce attorney for the wizard and the knight, he took the bones in the divorce

[slim elk]

It's pretty much even the framing for renegades plot lol. The Vanguard ignoring the best lead they have into trying to save Earth via looking into WTF the Nine are doing

[blazing wasp]

the vanguard are terrible politicians but they also really didnt want to be

[hard sigil]

still hive derived, Harrow just made those Praxic Blades sorrowful by his own will. makes me wonder if it's similar to taking

[lofty badge]

true

[blazing wasp]

the politicians tried to stage a coup to take over the military instead of the military doing a coup, failed, and suddenly the military is left with power, even if they didnt want to

[lofty badge]

true, all beacuse house of light was allowed into the city

[hard sigil]

considering the season synopsis is about us invading a hive foundry, I hope we get an elaboration on the exact process

[lofty badge]

is that a upcoming season or the current one?

[blazing wasp]

house light also repeatedly serving to be a boon to the city so the consensus was just a bitch

[lofty badge]

yeah lol they have been very useful allies

[hard sigil]

current one

[lofty badge]

huh, well we are entering weak 3 of Renegades so mabye it pops up later

[hard sigil]

hopefully. it would be a shame if it was just an error

[lofty badge]

yeah, we really need to go a bit back to the story format of seasons from beyond light till heresy XD

or at least

just seasons that have more story than the not so good stuff that was Ash and Iron

[hard sigil]

I do miss seasons

[lofty badge]

same

they had their flaws yes but at least they felt much more story relevant

[hard sigil]

i mean I understand that they wanted to reduce fomo

[lofty badge]

ye

[slim elk]

Really should have kept the oryx echo..
Gonna need a powerup when the enemy has a light off switch

[lofty badge]

lol

"KNIFE OF MY SLAYING!"

[slim elk]

It was pretty much gift wrapped for us to use lol

They even dropped real interesting plots they teased in the same content like taking Oryx back home to show the truth

[lofty badge]

ye

i wonder how we gonna solve the growing distrust from mortals towards guardians

[slim elk]

Instead.. the villains get all the cool stuff.. including Eramis... somehow

[hard sigil]

I mean. the echo was made of light

wouldn't be super useful

[slim elk]

Remember that Dead Orbit didn't have any real political ambitions beyond "GTFO"

FWC got Lakshmi dead..
New Monarchy...

[lofty badge]

yeah..?

[blazing wasp]

could try for a democracy

but we kinda have our hands full atm

[slim elk]

Well, there whole thing was dictatorship
Ain't that far away from Fascist

[lofty badge]

expcet we don't really opress the people?

but yeah

[hard sigil]

they don't have a voice in government, I'd say that's oppression enough

[slim elk]

Reread "growing distrust towards guardians"

NM probably be the government wherever they fled to

If they come back..

[hard sigil]

we should reestablish a consensus

[lofty badge]

true true

[lofty badge]

legit or something similar to let the mortals have a say again

[blazing wasp]

democratically elected leaders for various political areas, unsure if its wise for a president for the city?

[hard sigil]

one that's coalition wide. members for guardian, cabal, eliknsi and mortal representation

[slim elk]

House Light has a better established political structure then us lol

[lofty badge]

Yes XD; does help their Kell is the kindest Fallen leader we have seen thus far

[hard sigil]

my goat misraaks, Kell of Kells

[blazing wasp]

Zavala already handles the military side and some of the diplomacy
Ikora has some political stuff she handled already (wizard CIA)
Crow is effectively military too just more on the recon side than active combat side

[lofty badge]

yee

[blazing wasp]

thats plenty of spots needing to be filled by people

spots not mentioned here

[lofty badge]

why can't Hawthorne tho, even if she does not it she would make a good leader

i think?

[slim elk]

That requires Bungo to even remember she exists

[lofty badge]

true

[hard sigil]

the current government is pretty much an emergency military takeover because of the red war and endless night, we're well overdue for a return to normalcy

[lofty badge]

yeah

[slim elk]

Like the whole other human city that should have a fully established government we are also in contact with

[lofty badge]

• the Vanguard would welcome it i think XD

[lofty badge]

wtf is even the goverment of Neomuna XD

[hard sigil]

Zavala seems to be coming around to it

[lofty badge]

yeah

[hard sigil]

Aunor seemed to talk him into it

[slim elk]

I once again say they should have been villains
Explains a lot

[lofty badge]

They should have?

[hard sigil]

I don't think they really have one? just seems to be like. mutualism

[lofty badge]

uhh let me look it up

ah

[slim elk]

Put it this way
Would Neomuna not make a lot more sense if Maya won instead of Esi?

[lofty badge]

with how they hid the origins of their history?

[slim elk]

Esi was terrified of the Veil and refused to even consider studying it

glances at Neomuna hardwiring the Veil into everything

[lofty badge]

true

[slim elk]

How that happen if Esi won?

Meanwhile
Maya winning...
Suddenly the Cloudark is early research into replicating the Witness

[hard sigil]

Maya didn't know about the witness at all

it was never even in the system until lightfall

[river surge]

They had no clue abt the witness tho

Maya was as clueless as we were when lightfall came

[slim elk]

Yep
But just think about it.

Witness is a whole race stuffed into a collective mind
Cloudark is a whole city population stuffed onto one server and the Witness was screwing indirectly with golden age humanity

(Hello Clovis Bray finding the deep stone crypt statue)

[hard sigil]

I would also like to say that the Witness didn't know where the veil was

[river surge]

The thing is Cloudark is used digitally in a form of consciousness while The Witness acts physically

[hard sigil]

it was hidden by savathûn

[river surge]

also the veil was hidden

[slim elk]

Yep

[hard sigil]

and Maya's experiments were conducted post-collapse

it couldn't have interfered

[slim elk]

Yep

What I'm saying is Maya poking at the darkness like the Witness species did makes sense

Uncover how exactly they pulled that off

[hard sigil]

what

she didn't know about the witness

or about it's origins

how would she investigate a being she didn't know exists

[river surge]

The Veil can connect minds into a single mind

basically

[slim elk]

Again
Replicating the Witness whole mind merge without realizing she's following the events that created the Witness in the first place.

[river surge]

Thats the whole purpose of the veil

[hard sigil]

yes but you're saying that like it manipulated her into it

it thought the veil was gone

[lofty badge]

its still there

[hard sigil]

I'm aware

The witness assumed the veil to be lost and the traveller dead after the collapse

[slim elk]

All I'm saying is Maya unknowingly following the same path the Witness did would make some epic foreshadowing

[river surge]

Oh well

Again

[hard sigil]

it's an interesting coincidence, sure

and good writing

[river surge]

The Veils purpose does that

[hard sigil]

but yeah the veil connects minds naturally that's just what it does

[river surge]

Yeah

[slim elk]

Bingo
Just shows how.. insane Lightfall writing was
All the stuff you need is already there

[river surge]

While The Traveler can split itself into minds (Ghosts) The Veil can connect minds

herself*

[hard sigil]

eh not how I'd put it

[blazing wasp]

i think the traveler actually goes by it/she, so both work, no?

[river surge]

Yeah

[blazing wasp]

or do you say it she/it

point remains

[river surge]

I put herself mainly because it is also referred as she

[blazing wasp]

its not quite like... minds, youre thinking about darkness stuff there

[hard sigil]

I mean that's what it says in my pronouns sections so I'd guess so

[blazing wasp]

oh, right

[hard sigil]

lol

[blazing wasp]

literally your lane lmao, ill take your word for it

[hard sigil]

I don't think it matters really

usually people just list them by preference

[river surge]

The Traveler is a giant ball in the sky

[blazing wasp]

well, sentient ball in the sky.

[slim elk]

Traveler ain't doing much anyway

Could really use its help with the whole dead earth situation lol

[hard sigil]

it's healing

[river surge]

Its healing btw

[blazing wasp]

and it also doesnt like actually interfering

[hard sigil]

hard to help others when you've got a massive hole in your side and witness cancer

[river surge]

Fr

[slim elk]

Didn't stop it terraforming in the golden age

[blazing wasp]

thats not "interfering"

it doesnt really "act" like that

you gotta realise the traveler doesnt really think like anything we know at all

[slim elk]

So interfering ain't a good argument
It being effectively brain dead still makes sense

[blazing wasp]

not like the witness, hive, vex, eliksni, cabal, humanity, anything

[river surge]

U need to understand that she is different than anything in this universe

[blazing wasp]

her thought process is as alien as it gets, nobody understands her because literally nothing is capable of properly emphasising

[river surge]

Exactly

The Traveler is still currently a big mystery to us

[blazing wasp]

not to any fault of the traveler, it genuinely tries several times

[slim elk]

It does react to threats predictably
Giving us a sword to kill the Witness statues with is pretty direct by any standard

[blazing wasp]

we know this:

it is benevolent, and cares for our well being
it doesnt like "acting"
it doesnt understand us at all and is genuinely confused

[slim elk]

Now here's the Eclipse energy...

[blazing wasp]

an instance where it decided to actually act because of what was at risk

[river surge]

I mean the whole universe was at stake...

[blazing wasp]

the traveler will not sacrifice all of reality to stand by its ideals.

[river surge]

Anti causal energy yes

[blazing wasp]

it was the only known instance to us where it actually tried to "guide" us

[lofty badge]

Did we ever learn why the Traveler did abadoned other civilzations before humanity?

[hard sigil]

eh we blew up nightfall station and VI is being yelled at by the others, it'll take them actual decades to build something like that again

[lofty badge]

besides wanting to survive

[river surge]

Black Fleet and her enemies

Thats the only answer

[hard sigil]

it was being chased by the black fleet

[blazing wasp]

it wasnt even that.

[slim elk]

Pretty sure a similar level threat will happen when the not Death Star 2.0 gets built

[blazing wasp]

her own life wasnt the only thing at stake, it was every life

every thing, every being, every thought

everything was at stake.

[lofty badge]

ye black fleet was a reason, but also why decide to stay at earth

unless there was no time elft

[hard sigil]

she realised she needed to make a last stand

[river surge]

One final confrontation

[lofty badge]

and just said "fuck it, humans help me"

[slim elk]

By Savathuns account?
It got cornered

[blazing wasp]

the loss of the eliksni crushed her emotionally, she took a stand, decided "fuck it, im throwing hands"

[hard sigil]

running just kept getting things killed

[lofty badge]

nice

[river surge]

As The Witness once said "because it has no where else to run"

[blazing wasp]

it did have someplace left to run initially

it just decided to stay for once

[slim elk]

Remember
Savathun pretty much saved the Traveler in the collapse by hiding the Veil and framing Nezarec

[river surge]

With or without still being chased

[blazing wasp]

during lightfall, it did end up being trapped, but i dont think it actually planned to leave

[river surge]

no matter what

[slim elk]

Otherwise, it looks like the Witness finally cornered it in Sol

[hard sigil]

framed? she beheaded him and crashed his pyramid into the moon

that's a little more than framing

[slim elk]

The whole veil disappearance 😝

[river surge]

Savathun had her own plans

as she always does

[slim elk]

Savathuns the one who hid it
Heavily implied she used Nezarec as the fall guy

Witness would look into WTF happened to the Veil after all

[river surge]

Witness was literally chillin outside the galaxy btw

[hard sigil]

yeah the witness didn't care. it thought the traveller was dead

[river surge]

Until

Mr

Ghaul

aka

[hard sigil]

it only started its investigation into what went wrong with arrivals

[river surge]

The Lore Maker

Made them come back for us

[blazing wasp]

before that actually

the big blast that killed ghaul like gaby mentioned caught the attention of the pyramids

[river surge]

Yeah

[blazing wasp]

unless youre talking about them investigating by actually making it to sol

[hard sigil]

I mean it actually taking and investigating the planets (and moons)

[blazing wasp]

ah

[river surge]

Notice how the black fleet instantly turned on the moment that light went by

[blazing wasp]

well a lot of the investigations revolved around finding the veil

[river surge]

[slim elk]

"Where the hell did Nezarec hide it?"

[hard sigil]

witness went "oh shit" and jumped out of bed

[river surge]

[blazing wasp]

its like a youtuber you liked returning from a thousand+ year break

[river surge]

Poor Rhulk got scolded

Nezarec is dead

Witness camping

What a great time to be around

[hard sigil]

rhulk got sent to time out and to on-board his replacement

[river surge]

lol

Also

After we deal with The Nine and this prophecy

any theories on whats coming next

Cause we are more than done with our "problems"

Unless

Taniks gets reborn

[hard sigil]

eh honestly there's not much

retaking torobatl

and dealing with Xivu in the process

[river surge]

Retaking torabatl

Im in 1.3 seconds

[hard sigil]

lord of every nothing might become an issue

[river surge]

So

Xivu

Lord of Every Nothing

The Nine

And Torabatl

[hard sigil]

hive and taken. nothing truly changes

[river surge]

Also

The Winnower is still there

a new knife might come into play

it said it will meet us at some point

[hard sigil]

yeah but that's the same type of threat as the heat death of the universe

[river surge]

looking forward into that

[hard sigil]

technically speaking it's the same threat

[river surge]

The Lore looking promising for the future

[hard sigil]

I guess the vex will always be an issue too

[river surge]

they only need to make that one expansion where the fanbase will be happy

Also this expansion was cool

[river surge]

Retaking Toarabatl with that one scene fron Avengers Endgame

Cabal, assemble!

[slow berry]

VI was using time bubbles to advance technology in a reduced timespan

[slow berry]

do we know why it just stayed put actually

or did it expect the traveler to flee and was waiting for signs of it, not thinking it'd just chill there

[blazing wasp]

dunno

[slim girder]

Bro basically pulled a Warhammer greyknights.

[slim girder]

The traveler wasn't running. It took a chance with us and up until then we had constantly beaten everything that had tried to destroy us.
Ghaul was a big one especially because aside from us no others had their light.

[slow berry]

i think the biggest problem with ghaul was that it was trying to take the light which is one of the things that the gardener specifically picked out as a rule

also why it remote exploded that ghost rhulk caught

i do know the traveler wasn't fleeing though, i'm just wondering why the witness was jsut chilling there for like a thousand years

[slim girder]

Because savathun had deceived it into the thinking the traveler was "unconscious". The witness needs the traveler awake and aware to enact the final shape. So it just left to outside the galaxy and waited

[slow berry]

fair enough

you'd think bozo would at least like, park closer

or maybe there's a really good restaurant right where he was idk

[slim girder]

Don't think it really mattered. Traveler waking up was going to be heard regardless of distance it looks like. Who knows how much further that wave traveled after passing the black fleet

Fun fact the black fleet being active again was the first time we've actually seen anything outside of our own galaxy.

[lofty badge]

Do we know for how long the Pikers have existed for and how they came to pretty much just not belive in gods anymore?

[slim girder]

No idea exactly how long. But we've been doing many other things in other places so they've had more than enough time to establish themselves in tharsis outpost..

[lofty badge]

true, i get the feeling lot of em are ex house of Dusk and Mabye Salvation too

[slim girder]

If I had to guess maybe they saw the things Eramis was doing and the stuff Mithrax was doing and decided to just forget about the thing that caused both of them to have the ideals that they did.
The traveler.
No belief in the traveler = freedom.

[lofty badge]

that is fair

i still hate them for betraying us in that one campaign mission lol

even if they do have cool bikes

[slim girder]

Street rule number 1
Never trust anyone

If Riliks betrays Eido I'll happily point Mithrax in his direction

[lofty badge]

oh yeah, i feel like Riliks will be a very bad boyfriend for Eido

[slim girder]

We shall see. Hasn't asked her to do any piker crime yet.

[lofty badge]

ye

i wonder if all or most Fallen civlians/those who legit want peace have joined House light and the remaining hostile ones are warmongerings and outlaws

or zealous cultists in remaining house Salvation cases

[slim girder]

House light is the biggest house to my knowledge at this point.
But we do also have the house of exiles on Kepler.

And then the rest would be house dusk or pikers

Or even possibly scorn but we haven't heard anything on that front since revenant.

[lofty badge]

yeah makes sense,

lots of pirates likly still flying house dusk colors

[slow berry]

exiles isn't a house i'm p sure

not in the proper sense of the word

[slim girder]

It is a house. Just highly messed up due to the dark matter infected ether consumption ofc

But other members do operate within it

[ember storm]

I also own a house

It is insured

Just kidding I do not

[river surge]

Also any lore indications regarding that monster in Chicago

or just stories of it

Cause I have heard rumors of it literally killing fireteams of Guardians

if thats true then we are cooked

[slim girder]

Just stories but hopefully we actually figure out the truth in the future.
Who knows it's described as a monster it could definitely be a singular big ass hive or something

[ember storm]

Big frog

[slim girder]

There's also some monster under Kepler as well

[river surge]

NO

I HATE FROGS

EW

[river surge]

Imagine a big bigfoot

like a giant one

Literal horror

Pennywise style

xd

Also who was king of chicago?

[slim girder]

I know destiny is a T rated game but I really want something scary. I'm talking like Xenomorph levels of fast and dangerous.

Something very beastly

[river surge]

Yeah dude

[ember storm]

Concept art

Big frog

[river surge]

WHAT ARE THOSE GOBLINS ON IT

[ember storm]

Goblins

[river surge]

No bro I hate frogs I have phobia

just dont do this to me Bungie plss

[slim girder]

I would also like the tunnels to not be lit up.
We need more flashlight sections in this game.

[ember storm]

There are Nessus frogs

And weird things in the throne world swamp

Have you met them

[river surge]

Yeah but I didnt pay attention

at all to them

[slim girder]

Don't forget the batadactyls

[river surge]

Cause when I see smth ugly or big I usually run

I am very scared guy when it comes to ugly things

[slim girder]

There's one in the trash compactor during the first mission of renegades

[river surge]

I also dont like spiders

If I see big ass spiders in Chicago

im out

1.3 seconds

[slim girder]

Have you read cytrachnes lore?

[river surge]

No

what is that

[slim girder]

Sry for the spelling
Exotic hunter helmet. The grapple one

[river surge]

Uh nope

whats in it?

[slim girder]

Very cool read. Go read it rn

[river surge]

Hazard[!]: Fauna observed at nearest cavern—large creatures, MANY legs, pincers. Having no experience in zoology, I conclude: probably unfriendly. Discovered the unique pattern on the found helmet matches the coloring of the creatures. n attempted disguise?

im out 1.3 seconds

MANY legs nah

[slim girder]

Notice how the helmet also has many eyes as well

[river surge]

😭

Bungie dont do this to me bro

[slim girder]

Definitely an arachnid of sorts

[river surge]

MANY being with caps is 100% something UGLY asf

Ok normal spiders that fine

BUT

If I SEE THIS

if I see this in the game

its over

[slim girder]

Just shoot it

[river surge]

I would jump out of my chair directly in bed bro

😭

[slim girder]

Being an Aussie I'm less scared of spiders.
Though a creature in destiny that really lets off a frightening aura would definitely be the aphelion. I really hope we get more on them one day.

[river surge]

Being an Aussie explains everything, but we Europeans are just scared of these bro 😭

But yeah If they do a creature a xenomorph type one that would be insane tbh

[slim girder]

No clue what aphelion looks like but my mind has made up the image that they look like the shadow monster from tomb raider legend. Formless, screaming and extremely dangerous

[river surge]

Aphelion was something regarding to the um Awokens

or wait they are a race

[slim girder]

They are called "darkness predators" in the lore.
Not a race but beasts

[river surge]

darkness predators

Bungie

Can we please get that in the future?

[slim girder]

Sjur eido is the only one known to have survived an attack by one

[river surge]

Darkness predators u say um

I would imagine something made out of full black skin

teeth all over the body

like a squid

type shit

with tentacles

[slim girder]

There's a theory that what drifters old crew found on that icy planet was also an aphelion.
Aphelion are able to get in through the smallest openings and their scream is the only thing they're known by.

[river surge]

No idea why Bungie wont add them in the game outside the lore stories

[ember storm]

The humble sunspot

[river surge]

Like I really would wanna encounter something like this

[ember storm]

Honestly it’s just about the reputation now

These things have been discussed for so long bungie would genuinely need to seriously consider how to live up to reputation

Same for aphelions

[slim girder]

@river surge https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/bamberga

Lore entry on an aphelion attack if you're interested

Radioactive, formless and basically caused the entire vessel to go mad with screams.

[river surge]

RADIOACTIVE

Now I understand why Bungie wont add these to the game

first they are just too scary

2nd

they are radioactive

these things can go near humans and kill them with radiation poisoning

[ember storm]

My exo guardians collapsing next to their human teammates just to be fair

[river surge]

if they pretty much emit gamma radiation we are cooked

[slim girder]

Not the first time we've been around radioactivity

Whole of the DSC and vespers host had plenty of it.

[river surge]

I mean we as guardians shouldnt be worrying abt it

cause we can get revived

but what about other races

[ember storm]

I can tank it for a solid 15 seconds

[slim girder]

Nothing really survives radiation because it is the literal breakdown of living cells

[river surge]

Thats also correct

Well u can survive it but not being exposed to too much of it

but still the risk of cancer is high

[ember storm]

What if I proc cure over and over

[slim girder]

There was an incident in medicine involving radiation treatment.
If you're interested just look up THERAC-25. Machine supposed to just take x-rays and treat patients was instead blasting people with a literal hot beam of radiation.

Took them ages to find the error code

[river surge]

Oh god

Thats awful

[slow berry]

radiactivity cooks non-biological stuff as well

and with how intricate exos are supposed to be i wouldn't be surprised if radiation had similar effects

[river surge]

Depends on how much radiation it emits again

Gamma radiation can fry anything

But only on insane numbers

Low numbers barely affect any infrastructure thats not having a complex system

[warm zephyr]

why are braytechs buildings so clesn

[trim grotto]

Roombas

There's a few on Europa
You can ride them around it's great

[warm zephyr]

I dont think that would keep it this clean can they drive up walls?

and on roofs

[jagged badge]

Maybe they can

[warm zephyr]

if so dam I need one

[trim grotto]

Jet powered roombas
Nyoom

[warm zephyr]

where can I buy one

but ya the braytech facilties seem to be in impeccable condition for how old i think they are

[slow berry]

FOUR SLAIN GUARDIANS UNDER AN ECLIPSED SUN, INVADED FROM WITHIN, LIKE PREY
Do we think this refers to the nightfall attack?

[slim girder]

As mael said it's the roombas but also sweeper frames are prolly doing major repairs and stuff

Clovis puts his facilities above others for his "legacy"

He has this idea that people will see him as some genius god like being when they discover his facility like a temple or something

[shy remnant]

we should really put him out of his misery bro is stuck on Europa as a giant head

[hard sigil]

any amount of mercy is too much for Clovis. he deserves to spend eternity trapped and surrounded by the rotting ruins of his empire

[slim girder]

Sadly he also possesses a lot of knowledge. He's in the same boat as savathun

Could absoulutely kill them but if we do then what untold things might we not see

[queen swallow]

What's stopping us from finding them without him?

[slim girder]

It's more a case of he might be able to warn us about things. Like what if he knows about something on the horizon

Instead of finding it sooner and dealing with it, it instead becomes a massive problem by the time we find it

Just look at the barant imperium. Power of the nine allowed a whole superweapon and occupying force to appear out of nowhere

[queen swallow]

Did Clovis know anything about the Nine?

[slim girder]

I don't think he even believes they exist. In his mind he's the only god

[warm zephyr]

do they not run out of repair materials?

[slim girder]

Fabrication

We can reprogram matter

[warm zephyr]

why didnt we just reprogram the matter on big pyramids

[slim girder]

Not the same kind

When i say reprogram matter i'm talking about glimmer

[warm zephyr]

so he just has alot of glimmer?

[slim girder]

Most likely yes.

[warm zephyr]

why is he a big head?

was he planning on making a big body too?

[slim elk]

He wanted to be a giant mecha

Even see some of the other parts in the lead up to the room

[eager trout]

Can we talk about how glimmer is seemingly programmable matter yet it's used as money?

You'd expect it to be more valuable-

[slim girder]

It's also used as fuel

[slim girder]

So dredgen harrows purple/indigo praxic blades are the true weapon of sorrow version

Not Baels red one

Interesting

[hard sigil]

they're purple because they're void energy

which itself is interesting because all the weapons of sorrow we have are kinetic

[slim girder]

Yes but also because of the "shadow" harrrow shrouded them in

[hard sigil]

I wonder if the insinuation is that Bael's blade is eclipse energy

if we do end up fighting him it should delete your character if you die to it

[slim girder]

Wouldn't be otherwise drifter wouldn't have gotten back up

[hard sigil]

true

[queen swallow]

If that was a mechanic, no one would've done vog

[hard sigil]

it'd be funny

[slim girder]

Bael is the first but his acolytes are making huge advancements it looks like

Bael is the leader ofc but the acolytes are literally throwing themselves into the dark

Sere is controlling lightning and harrow has made new weapons of sorrow from praxic blade

Not to mention there's a lightbearer also looking for power

Thahaalz

[mellow merlin]

There seems to be a labyrinth under Chicago. I’ve waited since destiny 1 for Chicago to be explored, but never considered a labyrinth to be mixed in.

[hard sigil]

what's your source on this?

[mellow merlin]

https://youtu.be/4hXXpLu6Nfw?si=6ahBTBWLnLW-BioE

I love this channel, collects almost every piece of dialogue from game activities.

It might not be a literal labyrinth, but Lodi seems familiar with the coordinates given by four

[hard sigil]

oh yeah this is just Adams and Wabash

the labyrinth is the subway system

we know the Body is down there

[slim elk]

Another big reveal

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3g34G5dtrGE

Eclipse isn't solely exclusive to Light
It fucks up the Darkness as well

[hard sigil]

yeah we knew that

it's just blanket anti-paracausal

which kills beings that depend on it, such as ghosts, guardians, and hive

[eager trout]

What is it with Destiny and having villains who are just extremely petty and trying to make their personal grievances everyone's problem?

[hard sigil]

all villains are kinda like that

I can't really name a villain which isn't like that

[eager trout]

Well, selfishness is the base of evil

[slim elk]

Odd part is the Imperium leaders actually hit on some very solid points

Vanguard running a dictatorship over in the city

And Cabal wanting their homeworld back now the Witness is dead and the Hive broken

Go out of their way to develop a doomsday weapon that'll kill anything paracausal but leave everything else untouched

[dim minnow]

Lume actually gives a damn about his soldiers

[slim girder]

Not really a dictatorship. The civilians of the city aren't afraid of us or anything

[dim minnow]

hell he really intended on using Nightfall Station on Torobatl, we were just the test drive in his eyes

[slim elk]

You may want to read more recent lore

The people in the city are arming up

[slim girder]

If you mean that message Bael sent out. yes there are still civilians in the city who don't like the guardians but we aren't the evil dictators some paint us to be

We don't silence people who speak out

Or live in castles above everyone else. We don't even have a tower anymore

[slim elk]

Hell
Hoarfrost explicitly shows somethings brewing

[slim girder]

Hoarfrost is from witch queen

[slim elk]

Yep
Showed them discussing how the Ghosts actively chose the Hive

https://www.light.gg/db/items/1479082657/deimosuffusion

[slim girder]

We have had that uprising in the lore and everything.

Rn the current issue in the city is concerning the prophecy of extinction from III

Hive with the light is all said and done

It happened, we are aware of it and we've dealt many blows to the hive since then

[slim elk]

People starting to notice the fact reality is breaking down and don't know why..

[slim girder]

Well yeah that's directly related to that prophecy. They know that

The message is out

Eido and Aunor already put it out there

[slim elk]

That's the damning part
From them, not the Vanguard

The whole plot of this expansion starts with the Vanguard not putting resources into investigating the Imperium despite Drifter basically saying it's the best lead

[slim girder]

It was at the start. Now though that perspective has changed, Zavala wasn't furious or anything. He knew keeping information was wrong but in that moment he thought it was right. He now has seen it wasn't

[slim elk]

Point I be trying to make is the heavy implications the population is losing faith in the ability of Guardians to protect them

[dim minnow]

the whole civil war plot has been hinted at a long time ago

[slim elk]

Indeed

[dim minnow]

back in Chosen with the Salvager's Salvo lore tab

[slim elk]

And here's the Imperium with the perfect weapon to even the odds

[dim minnow]

I'm thinking that maybe Bael recruits the Dead Orbit fleet with (which includes the New Monarchy and Future War Cult remnants

maybe even recruit Clovis

would be interesting if they get Maya in on it, but that's unlikely since it Maya we're talking about here

I can also see a future storyline where Bael is trying to convince Neouman to join his side

maybe he'll argue that the Barant Imperium has the resources to actually clear Neomuna of Shadow Legion and Vex presence

[slim elk]

Just strap some eclipse bombs to the Veil to force them back into reality lol

[dim minnow]

if the whole "we can make your city safe again" argument fails he'll likely fall back to that

[slim elk]

Hell
A few leaks of info is all it would take really

We let Eramis go with a giant paracausal tool, and broke her out of prison

[dim minnow]

that on it's own might not be too effective, but it would be good support for saying that the Vanguard is too incompetent to really help Neomuna

[slim elk]

Its the "why" that will really ruffle feathers I imagine

[dim minnow]

tbf the stunt we pulled with Eramis worked in the end

[slim elk]

Wouldn't be the first time we put a leash on a untrustworthy asset.. so why didn't we do it with Eramis?

(Oh and our security on the Witch Queens ghost was so laughable he easily wandered as he pleased and tried to sabotage a Festival of the Lost)

[dim minnow]

Tales of the Forgotten Vol 3 might be the worst lore book in the game alongside Martian Missives

[slim elk]

We couldn't ask Aunor to slap an arc band on him when the whole point was to keep him hostage so Savathun wouldn't backstab us?

So immaru easily escapes offscreen?

[dim minnow]

given what Immaru said, he actually had to get away, so maybe there was some security

[slim elk]

Still be pretty big failure no matter how you look at it