📚lore-discussion

[fluid peak]

been a minute since i read that lore

[kindred urchin]

Bro popped super on a security bot

[hard sigil]

so strong she made a sidearm into a golden gun. crazy

[fluid peak]

the security bot was kicking her ass, tbf

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/legacy
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/legacy-pt-2
Rather than answer, I'd like to offer you the full tale. It's one worth reading.

[hard sigil]

oh yeah Caelus Station. the only reason anyone has gone to Uranus ever

[fluid peak]

i mean we're absolutely going to eventually right

[trim grotto]

Aye. It isn't limited to Handcannons.

He is there. Two Hunters hold. One snap-fires beams of sunlight from her rifle, wreathed in flame. The second dances through challengers, her blades Arc purity. None would pass them.```

[fluid peak]

a saga themed around the Nine means we're presumably going to all of their planets

or at least within their gravity wells

[trim grotto]

Anyway I need to sleep
If you need more lore feel free to ping me but I won't be around for like a day haha

Ciao

[fluid peak]

enjoy the mimir mael

[river surge]

VI will never understand sword logic because he cant understand death in the first place

[sterile junco]

Remember that IX is the Sun. Much as I want to go to Pluto

[fluid peak]

..yes

[sterile junco]

Massive penitente forests plz

[fluid peak]

we've technically never been to uranus, and mercury has been exclusive to pvp stuff since BL

we did sort of go to the sun during red war

[sterile junco]

I feel like the asteroid belt entry is alluding to something that will be revealed

The failed planet that could have served as intermediary

It was weird when the final entry wasn’t III

Though you can see III’s on the new seasonal artifact kind of

The Kepler one, rather

[slim girder]

There's been talk of the "tenth" member of the nine named Theia. But there's also a supposed stillborn member named zero who is tied to the asteroid belt.

[hard sigil]

too bad Theia headbutted the earth and got turned into the moon

[slim girder]

Lil bit of lore.
It's theorised that they moon we know today was actually a part of a much bigger planet until at one point it smashed into earth and broke into pieces.
One of these pieces became our moon.

[hard sigil]

more specifically it was supposedly and roughly the size of mars and hit earth when it was still mostly molten, which allowed for it to mix in a little and for the earth to not have a big chunk taken out of it

so all the little globules of molten earth and chunks of Theia orbit around the planet, collide and eventually form the moon

there's cute symbolism for having bits of Theia in the earth and bits of earth in the moon

[eager trout]

Golden Gun rework (or exotic) that makes it lore accurate when??

Imagine a Golden Gun rocket launcher

[ember storm]

The closest you have is just activating radiant tbh

Fraud Hawn used his own gg to make other guns golden, kinda

[urban bronze]

Sooo a Byf video I watched last night says Bael isn’t a guardian, which makes a lot of sense but I had a question I was wondering if anyone could clarify or speculate.
When Drifter “fake crosses” his fire team, he says a log the lines of “sorry fire team I need Bael to trust me, he’s just a kid…just a GUARDIAN”
Is drifter confused because of the Dredgen title Bael carries or was the great and all knowing Byf wrong? 😅

And since a non guardian can use stasis, can they use light therefor being a mortal Dredgen? I’ve heard zero mentions of Dredgen being mortal 🤷🏻‍♂️

[slim girder]

At the time drifter didn't know bael wasn't a guardian

It was only after springing that trap did we find out Bael wasn't actually a mega powerful guardian or anything.
He's just a dude hellbent on eliminating the guardians and serving VI who is manipulating him

[slow berry]

They didn't know

[ember storm]

Dredgens are historically Lightbearers who decided to stop being guardians

[slow berry]

The reveal happens near the end of the campaign when Drifter catches on and shoots his hand off, taunting him and asking him where his ghost is

[slow berry]

Anyone can use darkness like Stasis or Strand, you don't need a Ghost to do that

[slim girder]

No. Light must be given through a ghost.
Darkness however is more about willpower

[slow berry]

In the very first introduction to Stasis that we have, we see both Eris Morn and Elizabeth Bray, both mortal humans, use Stasis

[slim girder]

Obviously tho a guardian would have an easier time because it goes wrong they can revive

[slow berry]

Osiris uses Strand as well and he's a mortal human

[slow berry]

apparently the danger with stasis is somewhat limited since the worst you can be is stuck, but screwing up when using strand will instantly remove you from the physical world

it happens to the Guardian a few times

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-strand-darkness-kit9-gif-27631846

woopsie

[slim girder]

Yeah. Still sucks either way.

Imagine getting stuck in stasis and someone has to push you over to break free lol

[slow berry]

since stasis is about imposing your perspective on the world it's also less difficult than strand and playing with the weave of collective consciousness

Oh, yeah, Zavala also uses Stasis and he's a mortal human

[slim girder]

Eris can use Strand now to

[slow berry]

To be noted that humans have been specifically mentioned to be unique in how they can use both light and darkness

Lightbearer Hive have lost their ability to do their darkness-related rituals and cannot wield Stasis or Strand

[slim girder]

They still do rituals and stuff though so not a huge loss considering they never really had stasis or strand to begin with

Pretty sure that's what savathun has been looking for since the final shape.

[jagged badge]

It’s a reveal that happens explicitly in the campaign that contrary to everyone’s prior assumptions, Bael wasn’t a Guardian

After Drifter shoots Bael’s hand off he keeps asking “where’s your Ghost kid?” and then soon after Aunor unearths the lead on Tex Mechanica and we find out Bael is the son of someone in Tex Mechanica

[slow berry]

they actually had to rework the whole ritual thing to use light isntead

also while they didn't use strand or stasis directly, when drifter ate an acolyte eye he saw green strand lines, and with how sword logic works i wouldn't be surprised if it ultimately depended on strand as a metaphysical force to work

[dim minnow]

I recall many people speculating as to who Bael was before Renegades

him being a member of Drifter's crew on that icy planet was a popular theory

[frigid sparrow]

90% of that was cyrell

[dim minnow]

that too

[ember storm]

i dont remember what i was saying

[mortal wind]

So its pretty neat

[ember storm]

oh right the idea of jana was brought up and i was very against it

[mortal wind]

That Strand has straight up Telepathy apparently??

[ember storm]

i mean that's what the weave is

[mortal wind]

Like talkin' in peoples mind

[ember storm]

the psychic web of the universe

[mortal wind]

True

[frigid sparrow]

It makes sense

[ember storm]

strand is just pulling at the strings

[mortal wind]

It does make sense

Just, we don't see too many applications of stuff outside of killing and sometimes healing I guess

And we got the stasis crystals as coolant lately too

[slim girder]

Eris "strand trick" as drifter calls it was this pretty much. She reached out to a crew who weren't going to last much longer to comfort them.

[mortal wind]

she talked to them telepathically

Actually wonder if people can learn non-disintegration-ing Strand safely

[slim girder]

Very similar to when ahsa comforted that one team in the methane ocean on titan

The crew didn't know it but ahsa still wanted to make sure they weren't alone

[mortal wind]

strand worm

[frigid sparrow]

We call those threadlings

[ember storm]

Maybe like some kind of

Sturm

[slow berry]

We have Osiris but uh

its osiris

so

Buddy has been working on combination strand-stasis techniques at this point, hard to take him as the base line

[slim elk]

We've seen Fallen use strand, so it's possible

[mortal wind]

What's this?

Strand's gotta be my favorite element lore-wise and design wise tho

On its own at least prismatic is still the coolest overall

[slow berry]

Peach floats in and eavesdrops on Osiris working on it in a lore tab

[slow berry]

Those were dark matter fungus enabled eliksni sharing a sort of hive mind so there is that

[slim elk]

Osiris can't use Light anymore so he is working on all the crazy darkness abilities

[mortal wind]

I don't think I'm familiar with peach

[mortal wind]

of course the old man wouldn't retire lol

[slow berry]

Guardianless Ghost

[mortal wind]

Are they recurring character tho?

[slim elk]

Generally speaking, Darkness is actually the more open paracausal force to utilize

[slow berry]

Has a couple of appearances here and there

[mortal wind]

Yeah because people can take it while I guess the Traveler has to give it

But then Light's also still in all things it's not limited to the traveler exactly

And people can work with Light on stuff other than the Guardian's paracausal abilities, like fuel or energy or weapons

[slim elk]

Traveler just hates when it could possibly be utilized without permission

[mortal wind]

The traveler is nice 'n all but kinda gatekeeping ngl

Though there's probably some 5head higher being criteria to creating guardians and stuff

[slim elk]

The Traveler isn't above playing favorites lol

It literally gave Crow a ship

[mortal wind]

Oh yeah some people just connect differently

Micah-10, The Speaker(s), Crow

Us

[slim elk]

Main problem is it's utter refusal to do the most basic of communications

.. when it can speak through a ghost directly

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/imperious-sun-shell

[mortal wind]

I coulda sworn there's another lore tab where it laments the fact that it can't just speak normally lol

[slim elk]

Yes
A paracausal being fully capable of altering planets can't manage to leave some text laying around lol

[dim minnow]

the best voices...

[slim elk]

Or just showing directly instead of vague visions

[mortal wind]

"you cannot warn them"

[dim minnow]

Forever.

Your voice moves as a whisper, murmuring inside larger winds. Only the trusted few can absorb what is necessary. Wise and sly and perfect, your instructions drop, leaving nothing but the hard sweet rime of enlightenment.
The path is set. Your voice is unleashed.```

[dim minnow]

this is pretty much why the Traveler communicates the way it does

[slim elk]

It is a hypocrite when it comes to that.
No other way to address its favoritism of Crow or directing us to the EDZ to restore the light

[dim minnow]

maybe because we are the trusted few

we were the one who turned the tide of the Red War

[slow berry]

the whole point is that the traveler believes anything she says will irrevocably warp people's will, which is true

[mortal wind]

"A man reaches for one of the books, for you, and you want so very badly to reach back, to take his hand and tell him that you must bear it just like he must, forever, the memory engraved in quartz--but your hands are full."

idk what this means exactly but it seems like Traveler wishes it could communicate

[slim elk]

Really could have used some communication when we were going against Savathun in Witch Queen lol

It does look like the Traveler was behind Immarus disappearing act in the ending

[slow berry]

It's about the Traveler fighting this enormous enemy and the people trying to help fight the Witness

The Traveler can communicate and do a great deal of things - it activelyc choses not to

[slim elk]

See Liths explanation

It can easily communicate

Just seems to only do it to its enemies

[dim minnow]

sometimes when a mf doesn't want to listen the Traveler has to tell them off

it tried this with Clovis, but he didn't listen

or maybe it did work to an extent seeing as how he actually sought to redeem himself towards the end (not referring to the AI)

[ember storm]

honestly that's just an issue with the campaign never even treating Immaru like a character

he never speaks or is mentioned by name once

also WHY WOULD IT TAKE US 7 MISSIONS TO SEE HIM FOR THE FIRST TIME

IT'S MORONIC

we already figure out that hive ghosts are "real" bc fynch outright tells us, which we're never suspicious of

literally all he would need to do is mention "yeah Savathun's ghost gives us marching orders and also calls himself daddy" and that just like, gets rid of 6/8 of the story

[slow berry]

the traveler wasn't picking sides there tbf

[slim elk]

Immaru disappearing act does point to Traveler intervention TBF

Though now things are escalating to a point that leaves questions to just how powerful other forces are

Saturn managed to get the perfect anti light weapon in the not Death Star.. where even the Witness never displayed anything on that scale?

[mortal wind]

Not wanting to mess with will actually is in character yeah

that makes sense

[ember storm]

traveler: alright im finally ready to act for myself so nobody misinterprets
traveler later: oh no

[slow berry]

anti-paracausal

the witness was actively using paracausal forces and specifically required the traveler's light to ennact the final shape

not exactly in his best interest to be negating paracausal forces around his paracausal army and his entire body and consciousness made through paracausal means

[celest pendant]

In ghost of the deep is the extra ghost, oryx ghost?

[hard sigil]

technically yes

they were attempting a ritual to resurrect him but the implication is that it probably wouldn't have worked anyway

even without our intervention

[celest pendant]

Why not

His ghost was chilling

[hard sigil]

it wasn't his ghost (yet). they were trying to use Nokris' necromancy to bind them, which most likely wouldn't have worked, Oryx himself would've been against this resurrection, and Oryx's body wasn't technically dead

his body's cells are still active and growing, as he's still getting tithes through sword logic

[mortal wind]

Setup tithes to Eris again and gimme a week at the loot cave and we could thanos snap the 9

tbh surprised we aren't abusing sword logic more, prob just plot reasons tbh

[trim grotto]

Well, we only did it last time because we used Ahsa as a catalyst. It wasn't very healthy for her.

[slim girder]

It's a dangerous power to be using often.

Eris recently has used tithes from us to speak to VI but I don't think she'll ever do the full hive god transformation again

[trim grotto]

Unless Drifter asks nicely

[slim girder]

Yeah drifter a bit freaky deeky and likes her other form

[mortal wind]

Oh If forgot about that

[mortal wind]

but it looks so cool

[slim girder]

Think the only time she might consider it was if she was face to face with savathun again. Or if xivu attempted to fight her.

[mortal wind]

I wonder who we're gonna bind the 9 to

It doesn't sound like it's very fun

[slim girder]

For the outer orbit vessels probably not.
Inner orbits however could be more open to the idea

[mortal wind]

True Bael does make it sound like the bad stuffs is VI actively doing it

But in general too seems like being the not-Fated Weapon or Emissary just kinda has side effects

I mean not fun for the person bein' bound

But also there's power involved in being bound so we don't want to bind some randoms

Sacrifice time?

[slim girder]

We still don't actually know if it's as simple as picking someone and that's that.
These are 4th dimensional beings who while not paracausal are still capable of causing solar system ending issues and hurting people.

But Lodi does seem confident in the binding the mortal bodies solution. So I guess that also hinges on what's in Chicago that's been trying to talk to him.

[mortal wind]

Oh yeah thats the big mystery rn

What's in Old Chicago

[jagged badge]

My wallet, I left it there

[mortal wind]

Three Earth locations is nice Earth is cool

Actually I really hope Chicago ends up being kinda similar to Freehold as an area if yknow what i mean

[hard sigil]

judging by context clues whenever Lodi talks about it, a corpse

[mortal wind]

turn it into a gun

[slim girder]

Any chicago residents here that might be able to offer more insight into places we might visit?

Imagine the bean is still there or something

[hard sigil]

not from Chicago but most likely we'll be in the subway tunnels and whatnot

Lodi calls out Adams and Wabash

[slim girder]

What is adams and wabash. My understanding it's a subway right?

[hard sigil]

it's a subway station

importantly it's part of the L line

which features the same trains that the nine used on Kepler and on Nessa

[trim grotto]

As opposed to the W line

[slim girder]

My knowledge of chicago comes from watch dogs

[trim grotto]

I have no knowledge of Chicago apart from the name sounding mildly like Car Go

[hard sigil]

she car go on my nine til I lodi

[trim grotto]

Alex can we pin this

[hard sigil]

but yeah we also know the Monster likes to hang out in the subway

[slim girder]

Oh @trim grotto I wanted to ask you for your thoughts on something I was talking about yesterday.
What weapon do you think they could be talking about here? We thought because this is still a star wars flavour expansion we'd get maybe a glaive as a nod to the darkstaff but as a new weapon of sorrow.
But this weapon already has "shadowy legend" around it so it makes me think it's something we apparently already know about..

Aside from the weapons of sorrow what other dark weapons could this be talking about?

[trim grotto]

Legend implies some degree of knowledge... Weapons foundry of the Hive suggests Weapon of Sorrow... But we've already got ToM and Necrochasm.
It's possible that we personally simply don't know the legend, so I'd keep that in mind.

...Yor's old Auto?

I'll have a think on it. I just finished work and have to drive home, though.

[hard sigil]

oh yeah the auto might make sense

[slim girder]

There was a theory that that auto was what ended up becoming the necrochasm.

Considering it was lost in a battle to a wizard

Yor lost it, wizard took it and then husk of the pit was what became of it

Then in turn became necrochasm

[frozen pawn]

I heard Edo asked Drifter about "love",
Anyone know who she's in love with O_O?

[hard sigil]

the leader of the pikers

[frozen pawn]

Thank god it's not Spider

[jagged badge]

Why would it be Spider

[slim girder]

Riliks shooting high

Daughter of the kell of kells

[shy remnant]

I do NOT approve riliks is a THUG

I will be informing her father

[mortal wind]

rebellious phase

[trim grotto]

Spider is literally her dad's age
And also they are not friends

[slow berry]

I'm excited about Old Chicago

Also, speaking of Eliksni, are they effectively immortal, lobster-coder as they are?

Variks and Eramis are centuries old, right?

[mortal wind]

Hm good point

i suppose they are since fall of riis > collapse > collapse was centuries ago

Maybe it's somethin' to do with their relationship to the light with Ether

I mean we know a direct consequence of finding the Traveler was increased lifespan

[modern lodge]

yeah, some are all from the whirlwind

also is earth fucked?

[slim girder]

Yep

It's doing stuff on the level of terraforming but not the good kind

[modern lodge]

damn big T better wake the fuck up and fix earth

[eager trout]

How come I haven't seen anyone say the name "Pikers" is lazy? It's just bikers with a P, for Pikes, which are already bikes with a P.

I'm not saying it's lazy, but I'm surprise no one has complained about it.

[modern lodge]

thats the point... they are a biker gang

[queen swallow]

I think there are other things that people would rather complain about first

[modern lodge]

why complain about something that literally doesnt matter

[eager trout]

Because people always do

No, about Pikes, why are they called Pikes?

[trim grotto]

probably because Pikes have been a thing since D1

[modern lodge]

there are real issues like old raids/dungeons not being tiered

[trim grotto]

Because Fallen gear is named after weapons. Like Shanks.

[eager trout]

Pikes are weapons?

[trim grotto]

Yes. Medieval.

[eager trout]

Ah

[hard sigil]

thrusting spear

all their units are named after pirate stuff

[eager trout]

Ah

[hard sigil]

and boarding pikes are very useful

they're just very very long spears

[trim grotto]

pointy sticks

[eager trout]

Y'all, Xur starts with X, which means 10, is this relevant?

[dim minnow]

no

[hard sigil]

Deer starts with D, which means 500, am I actually a 4th dimensional being?

[hard sigil]

.vi's rebellion. .big bad dredgen | mister mommy issues. .of course i knew. .we all have our secrets | but it's hard to hide the grav|ity of a decision | that mass|ive.

god IX is great

[queen swallow]

"mister mommy issues" uh.... who's the "mommy" in this scenario

Oh

nvm

[hard sigil]

.boring!.dis|a|ppoint|ing! .boos | tomatoes | half-star rat|ings! .if you | were | me you'd want to have so|me fun before then | too.

[queen swallow]

It's refering to Bael and not VI

[hard sigil]

his literal mother

[queen swallow]

Yeah, I thought it was refering to a "mother" of the Nine

[hard sigil]

`Lodi startles awake. He feels for each of his limbs, the planes of his own face, and gasps for air. A monster is trying to talk to him.

His unease is deepened as he realizes he has turned the bed to platinum in his nightmare. He coaxes metal back to linen, and even in the privacy of his new flat, he feels inhuman. Unnatural in every way.`
can you tell I'm reading the survivor set lore? anyway a couple interesting take aways; the monster trying to talk to him is likely whatever's in Chicago, and I wonder if Lodi's apparent ability to transmute metals will come handy at some point

[queen swallow]

Can he transmute things into more enhancement shards

[unique socket]

Was drifter's ghost name been mentioned anywhere before? Or was it just "Drifter's Ghost"?

[hard sigil]

don't think it's been said anywhere before this, no

[unique socket]

Awww

I love that ghost

I hope its skin available in store

[hard sigil]

it would be nice to have her as a shell

[hallow horizon]

What or who is a dredgen btw? I'm really out of touch with the story rn

[hard sigil]

the dredgens are members of the cult known as the Shadows of Yor. Dredgen Yor himself was a guardian that was tempted into evil by the Hive through the influence of Thorn. Yor was slain by Shin Malphur, but his teachings lived on.

or at least, that's the cover story. the secret is that the Shadows are actually a covert operation set up by Shin to lure in other guardians who have been tempted by evil and either keep them from going any further down that path or executing particularly dangerous individuals

[hallow horizon]

That's pretty interesting damn

I should probably actually get into the D2 lore but like holy shit there seems to be so much

[hard sigil]

Bael himself isn't a real Dredgen. he took the name after learning about them and their philosophy and co-opting it for his own cause

[hallow horizon]

Yeah that makes sense

[blazing wasp]

Dredgen "vale" who anour mentions, is actually shin malphur too

[hallow horizon]

Stumbled upon that fact on Reddit earlier which is why I asked what dredgens are actually

Are there any good lore videos for D2 that would explain most of the stuff?

[blazing wasp]

byf should have some

i would've thought youd known about dredgens by now, since you're a regular in #📗gambit-playbook

[hallow horizon]

Lmao yeah I just never got into the lore that much

[hallow horizon]

imma check some out

[jagged badge]

Feel free to ask whatever here, we’re happy to help answer or even direct you to lore resources

[hard sigil]

I would say if you're getting into lore, start either from the basics or from something specific that interests you, and then spread out from there

[slim girder]

Something more to add on this. The shadows also learned to wield these dark powers but instead use them for good. The legacy of dredgen yor in the book he left behind told us that we would need the power of the weapons of sorrow to help us

Use dark power and resist temptation, or fall to it and be hunted down by the man with the golden gun

[slow berry]

We had her name in lore tabs written in binary last season

[frigid sparrow]

CYRELL MENTIONED IN THE NEW BLOG POST

https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/system_most_wanted

(okay, alluded to, but still)

[ember storm]

ough

[frigid sparrow]

Bael really just made his identity after looking up "bad guardians destinypedia" on the internet

[ember storm]

i love aleks le

[river surge]

I have a big theory

But

I think the red subsclass will be real

we have Eclipse

and I think during The Alchemist we might use it

idk why

[ember storm]

i've always hoped for a green subclass before strand

like not hive thorn shit but liquid acid

baja blast bending

[river surge]

No but like I refuse to believe Bungie wont add anything new and unique this saga

like cmon

The hints are there

they just need to work and boom

[queen swallow]

Thorn's "green" is the poison from Weapons of Sorrow and I don't think we're getting a subclass of that

[ember storm]

yeah i know that

that'd why i said before

[river surge]

About weapons of sorrow

[frigid sparrow]

the hints are there

I think a pretty big hint that eclipse isn't gonna be a new subclass is the fact that it instakilled however many guardians were on Tharsis (and maybe Mars itself)

[river surge]

do we have a weapon foundry based on that?

[ember storm]

before strand everyone and their mom was convinced we'd get a soulfire subclass

[ember storm]

you uh

you have jana, i guess

if she counts

[frigid sparrow]

There's some hive weapons foundry going on in the background

In the description of the season

[ember storm]

i mean she's pretty good at making guns so shrug

[river surge]

Plot twist incoming

we are special and we can wield it

[ember storm]

if she ever makes another we'll have to see

[frigid sparrow]

It literally does nothing to non-guardians

[river surge]

Ik

[frigid sparrow]

Eido got blasted with it and came out with no physical harm done to her

[river surge]

I saw the whole cutscene I just wanted to point out that Bungo might do a big brain moment and make us wield it

Lume has some sort of understanding of it but it very volatile

Also I would like to call Eclipse anticausal

cause thats what it literally does

[ember storm]

spider is such an upstanding citizen

[river surge]

I have always wondered if lore wise we have a flat in The Last City we as a guardian

I dont think so but it would be cool if we could go home lol

[ember storm]

i say the guardian simply hasn't done it because they were never directly told to do so

[river surge]

🥲

[slim elk]

Technically we have a full Ketch and crew we can base in

Bungie just forgot about it

[ashen comet]

Wasnt it a temporary thing

And didnt it crash at the end of plunder or am i imagining it

[dim minnow]

We should still have it

[slow berry]

Given that the Guardian was off on patrol somewhere while the Age of Triumph celebration was going on, and how they usually try to apply aspects of the playerbase to the Guardian and other guardians, I wouldn't be surprised if buddy was just a workaholic

oomf is just going from seasonal/expansion activity to the next

[modern lodge]

did you read why he hates the light and guardians....

[frigid sparrow]

yes but it's funny

[low gyro]

Why did he actually, i didnt actually pick up on that during the story

[dapper kayak]

something something despots

have ruled last city with like 0 accountability/restraits for too long

light wipes people's memories

[low gyro]

Oh. That kind of reasoning

I guess he does have a point given how Dark Age warlords are

Who watches the watchmen

[modern lodge]

his mum was rezzed as a guardian

[dapper kayak]

and when he tried to talk to her or something, she was cold to him

[low gyro]

Tbf yeah the no memory thing. Would be a complete stranger to her

[frigid sparrow]

His own mother was risen as a guardian, and she pushed him away when he went to embrace her
He was unhappy with his work at Tex Mechanica, which as a job means making weapons for the guardians
He was attacked by a hive lightbearer, having a similar reaction to Shayura upon seeing the ghost, personally killing it
With the death of the consensus as a political group, the vanguard was basically the de facto leaders of the last city without any human representation, only lightbearers
He was being fed delusions by VI and had his mind and body wrecked with his already existing emotions

[low gyro]

Ah i see

[ember storm]

if you think about it the Echo of Navigation was basically like one of those AI videos of dead people

Savvy and Xivu were trying to argue with chatgpt roleplaying as oryx

[dim minnow]

She shoved him to the ground, even burned his chest a bit with Solar Light. Then her Ghost told him to fuck off.

Initially, I was pretty worried about his motivations, but the reveal of his backstory really made it work

[unique socket]

oh i dont think i played last season due to work overload 😭

[slim elk]

Do give him some credit for specifically engineering the not death star to not hurt any non paracausal being

Biggest show of restraint seen (though that kind of makes Ghaul feats look pretty miniscule)

[shy remnant]

I wish baels backstory wasn’t confined to a lore tab would’ve hit hard as one of those ink blot cutscenes

[slim elk]

Heck
Even the cabal leader has some rationale

He wants to take the fight back to the Hive now the Witness is dead

Not squat in Sol indefinitely

[dim minnow]

given that Eclipse Energy can tear away both Darkness and Light, I do think it's possible for Nightfall to affect Lightless, but Bael did seem to only want to target the Guardians with it (hell he even gave them a chance to abandon the City)

[river bronze]

I hope we see shin in a future season

[dim minnow]

watch as he and his gang pull up and get completely bodied by Bael

we do know that he is aware of Bael at least

since a "stranger" who is heavily implied to be part of Vale's group tells us that Bael is a pretender

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't bet money on it. Jon Goff never intended Shin to be an NPC.

[river creek]

why is drifter old as dirt?

[trim grotto]

Did'ja play Edge of Fate?

[river creek]

yes

i didnt pay attention but i played it

[trim grotto]

I'd recommend rewatching the cutscenes for the proper context

[heady gyro]

Wait, why is the consensus gone?

[frigid sparrow]

Maya sundaresh attempted a coup and brought a vex swarm into the city

Maya

Fuck me

Fucking

LAKSHMI-2 staged a coup

[dim minnow]

is a facsimile its archetype?

[frigid sparrow]

Executor Hideo was in on it

And while Arach Jalaal was in the know, he didn't say anything and he left with dead orbit (and Hideo left with him to not be fucking murdered by ikora)

[dim minnow]

Savathun did goad Lakshmi into doing it

since she was still disguised as Osiris at that time

[frigid sparrow]

And acted as a "mediator" for when the dust settles

[ember storm]

Savvy was just being a devil on the shoulder

Lakshmi still decided to do it either way

[slim elk]

The irony is New Monarchy effectively got what they wanted with Zavala being de facto dictator

And from what we understand of Concordat, Guardians rule the city now. What they wanted

[slow berry]

I think everyone got what they wanted, in a way

The future war cult were ultimately proven right about their war, the new monarchy got their leader, and the dead orbit fucked off

[sullen falcon]

Lore wise, what moment does drifter fall for Eris? He mentions a time where they got a distress call about a ship loosing oxygen and she wouldn’t stop talking to them.

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't say it was a specific moment, honestly. Their relationship developed over time, growing since Arrivals.

It became pretty obvious in Witch, though.

[sullen falcon]

I see, thank you

[dim minnow]

I do like how there's actually a lot that goes into her decision

the events she witnessed in the past, her savior complex, etc.

[dim minnow]

Dead Orbit kinda wanted to bring everyone else with them though

like if they just simply wanted to leave they would have done so long ago, however they wanted the entire city to invest in the resources for mass exodus

[heady gyro]

Wait maya was in charge of the consensus?

[coral glen]

What determines what class a guardian is brought back as?

[slow berry]

Nothing

[dim minnow]

is a facsimile its archetype?

[slow berry]

Classes aren't actually a hard system

[coral glen]

So theoretically a hunter could nova bomb someone?

[slow berry]

People are just more naturaly adept at some forms of light manipulation than others and that leads to Guardians huddling up in groups of similar, but distinct, individuals

[dim minnow]

the Class and subclass system was designed as a way for Guardians to organize and consolidate their cosmic powers into simple to grasp disciplines

[slow berry]

Technicallt, sure

[dim minnow]

no, it was Lakshmi-2, who was a copy of Maya's consciousness

[coral glen]

Damn and all this time i thought the classes were like set in stone you are what you are

[slim elk]

Don't forget all the individual Guardians that come up with their own unique varieties of more common abilities

[coral glen]

Whos an example of this

[dim minnow]

Shaw Han did use his Golden Gun to create something like a Well of Radiance

[coral glen]

Another question kinda on the same track are certain elements of the light more common then others?

[slim elk]

Void light was once outright controversial

[dim minnow]

Light Elements are kinda everywhere

[coral glen]

What the flip void is the coolest

[frigid sparrow]

I think arc might be the most prevalent of the learned subclass with most known characters

[trim grotto]

No. Lakshmi-2 was in charge of the Future War Cult, which was one of three City factions that made up the Consensus, atop of the Vanguard and Speaker.

[slim elk]

"Too close to dark"

[trim grotto]

Some Guardians are still scared of Void and its depths, and connection to death. Back in the day, people saw it as close to Darkness, too. An outdated view, but one that existed nonetheless.

[coral glen]

I’ve seen multiple non hunter characters use the void but i don’t think I’ve seen a single hunter character be a nightstalker which is sad to me caue Nightstalker is my absolute favourite

[trim grotto]

In D1, we got our Void Subclass from a Nightstalker.

Tevis Larsen.

[slim elk]

The City and Vanguard were pretty close minded about things. They didn't even try to understand how their enemies worked despite warnings

That's partially what led to the Great Disaster on the Moon despite Shaxx saying they should understand what the Hive could actually do first

[eager trout]

Why does Maya sound so old why Chioma sounds young in Desert Perpetual?

[ember storm]

you did because you're a stinky hunter

i got defender at level 15 bc i am cool

[trim grotto]

The VA isn't putting anything on. That's just her voice.

Shohreh Aghdashloo. She's been around in acting and voice acting roles for years.

[coral glen]

I remember that i more meant like there hasn’t really been a living nightstalker that we have interacted with

[eager trout]

I mean the lore reason why they sound of such different ages

[coral glen]

I find most hunters just gravitate towards solar

[trim grotto]

No particular reason. Voices don't always age the same.

[eager trout]

And I haven't heard them in English, only in Spanish, which still has the difference of age in how they sound

[ember storm]

i mean they're probably just emulating the english performance

there isn't any meaningful lore reason explaining Maya being older

[trim grotto]

Not as a "main", I suppose, but all of the Hunters we know are capable of using Void. Cayde could, for one.

[eager trout]

So it isn't because the Chioma in the raid is the copy the Vex made of her younger self, while the Maya is from when she was old in Neomuna?

[ember storm]

does that Chioma sound any different from the Chioma in veil containment or encore

[dim minnow]

I think it's because they head to recast her voice for EoF

[queen swallow]

I thought they re-recorded the lines?

[dim minnow]

they should have

[eager trout]

Different from the older Chioma in Veil Containment, at least

And again, this is in Spanish

[little relic]

something something the Ghoul something something

Insert fake the Ghoul reference here

[sick yew]

Go away

[sick yew]

Any lore indicators thus far who we gon be up against in the Dungeon?

And how big is the chance that we'll be fighting Bael's left hand big cabal I forgot their name

[hard sigil]

looks and sounds like it'll be cabal and taken

[sick yew]

How come

[hard sigil]

it's at least partly on a Barant ship and the taken blade is from the dungeon

[sick yew]

Was that mentioned where it is?

[hard sigil]

it's in the trailer

[sick yew]

Oh the Dungeon trailer dropped already?

[hard sigil]

a while ago now

[sick yew]

Oh damn

[hard sigil]

#📢bungie-announcements message

actual Jedi robes is nice

so Praxic Vault on Venus, taking a thresher up to what looks like the same ship from the opening mission of renegades

[fringe wasp]

Also the taken crystal says from equilibrium

[hard sigil]

yeah I. said that

[sick yew]

I see

[fringe wasp]

A bit unrelated question but how smart is the average cabal

[hard sigil]

I'd say decently

they're soldiers

there's the stereotype of them being brutes

but I think there's a couple tabs about legionaries being pretty smart

[fringe wasp]

Yea that's why i was wondering cause they are built

[sick yew]

Theyre just people like us really

[fringe wasp]

Leaders are mostly smart

[sick yew]

Exceptions do exist such as the shadow legion largely consisting of cloned cabal whom I believe are pretty mindless

[fringe wasp]

Legion were calus clones?

[hard sigil]

not of calus

but he has been using clones for a long while

[fringe wasp]

Final shape had shown the collection and levi

[hard sigil]

the Baths on the leviathan house cloning vats

and they're pretty much mindless soldiers

[fringe wasp]

I wish i was there when levi was still in the game

[hard sigil]

you can do nightmare containment right now

[sick yew]

Duality opening room!!!

[fringe wasp]

Also cabal technology is pretty insane overall

[hard sigil]

yeah they're very advanced

the empire was huge for a reason

[fringe wasp]

Seen that comment a few days ago and they are pretty right looking back. They adapt more and more to guardian combat throughout the game

And Nightfall is another improvement in the shape of a super weapon

[hard sigil]

all the advanced tech the Barant has was already being prototyped by the ascendancy

ablative armour and behemoths

[fringe wasp]

Hm and lume had access to all of it i assume

[cobalt sonnet]

is the withness truly dead?

[sick yew]

Yes

For the Witness to return youd need a billion or so individuals resurrected

Nice pfp btw

[cobalt sonnet]

wait how did witness even come to live in the first place

i never rlly understood that part

[cobalt sonnet]

thanks 🔥

[hard sigil]

like any other species in the universe

after growing frustrated with the traveller and finding the veil, they used it to combine into a gestalt being

of course, not everyone agreed

[sick yew]

Practically an entire species decided to merge into one being

[hard sigil]

and that's where the dissenters come in

[sick yew]

Out here we love Tenet

[slim girder]

https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI?si=N_DF4gGqP_9v57oT

This will explain it in detail.

[ember storm]

mass murder/suicide ritual with the veil

Maya’s experiments with the veil happened in a similar fashion

[warm zephyr]

so is the darkness not evil?

just the ppl that use it are normally evil?

[slim girder]

Yes.
Darkness is a neutral force in the universe that is related to the unseen and psychological.

It's the person who uses it that dictates whether it's good or bad.

[warm zephyr]

so that means we could have a villan that uses the light?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn

[slim girder]

^^^^^^

[warm zephyr]

kinda but tbh shes always been in the middle

she always felt like a villian but also not

imo

[jagged badge]

She wanted us extinct in Witch Queen and she used the Light

In my eyes that makes her a villain who uses the Light

[slim girder]

She is a villain. Her ways of doing things just aren't the usual destroy us at all costs but she wouldn't think twice before using us to get what she's after. Now though she's definitely out for our heads after we destroyed the memory of her brother as an acho

[jagged badge]

But also being pedantic about it doesn’t matter, because Savathûn demonstrates that you don’t need to be morally good or pure to use Light

Because there is no inherent morality to Light and Darkness

[warm zephyr]

I mean technically the light didn't choose her the traveler chose her their is a difference between the traveler and the light right?

[slim girder]

She's the god of trickery and a god of the species that has caused untold losses to the guardians and hurt us in many ways. Her nephew slaughtered thousands in the great disaster, she kidnapped osiris and then left him to watch as she posed as him and hurt Saint 14, she almost took the traveler away under the logic of protecting it.

Among many other things

[slim girder]

As eris said there is no morality to the light but the traveler or her ghost did choose her and the traveler is capable of intervening but didn't

But it should also be noted the lead up to all that involved experiments that had guardians light be drained and funneled into crystals

Her brood regularly experiments with it and it's everywhere in her throne kept in capsules

[warm zephyr]

I mean even if it had selfish intentions she did end up doing good like hiding the vail and trying to hide the traveler that makes sense since we know the whitness was coming

[slim girder]

She would have doomed us if that had happened

Not even her could stop the witness

[warm zephyr]

she would of but to her it was the only way to delay the whitness i dont think she thought the vanguard could of stopped the whitness

[slim girder]

If she had succeeded we would have lost our light and been defenseless. She did it for herself, she would obviously still keep the light but we would have stood no chance

She doesn't care about us unless it gets her something

She is evil but masks it as something good to fool people which makes her stronger as the god of trickery

[warm zephyr]

she wanted to save her own butt ya the vanguard bearly scraped by a win on the whitness to her taking the traveler somewhere else was the only way she was going to survive

[slim girder]

Well yeah the witness was never going to be something easy to deal with. We needed everyone including our enemies.

[warm zephyr]

like if she didnt have her value i dont think the traveler would of ever given her the light

why do they gardians need the traveler to use light?

lights all around us is the traveler just a conduit?

[slim girder]

It is the source of light.

[warm zephyr]

do you mean its the source of condensing light into a usable form?

[slim girder]

That's not really known. But this universe is made of light and dark.
But generally the belief is that the traveler is the source of the light and is the "manifestation" of an ancient being known as the gardener who played the flower game with another ancient being named the winnower who uses the darkness.

It's the winnowers power that creates the taken.

[warm zephyr]

how do we know the traveler isnt juat created to manipulate the light thats been in the universe for ever not the one to create it?

[slim girder]

We just don't know really. The traveler is still an enigma to us even after events in the pale heart. But through its actions we have seen that it does have thoughts, dreams, emotions and does view us as protectors.

But rn the traveler is most likely going to be taking a back seat and healing the damage done to it by the witness while we deal with the more pressing issues with the nine.

[warm zephyr]

I mean whats the traveler even going to do to the nine if it does try to fight

[slim girder]

The nine can't do anything to it because that'd require coming out of their dimension which would kill them.
But as we have seen in renegades they can manipulate events to try and destroy it.

This also happened with the red war

[jagged badge]

The Traveler is flawed and tries to be benevolent. It took a chance allowing Immaru to resurrect Savathûn (and luckily it worked in a sense), but Savathûn still kills and has her forces kill Guardians. Her plan in Witch Queen would have had humanity go extinct

[warm zephyr]

so the traveler and the nine cant fight each other directly so they both try manipulate events to make things fight for them?

[slim girder]

The traveler doesn't manipulate it isn't evil though a lot of people have explored this.
The outer orbits of if the nine do though and are clearly not opposed to violent options

[warm zephyr]

I mean as I see it the traveler really cant fight for its self so it invests power in the gaurdians to do the fighting for it

[slim girder]

That is true. But it shouldn't be seen as it "using" others if that makes sense. And we learned in the pale heart that it's gift of the light is not something it just gives out because it knows the burden it comes with

We've had a lot of good come from the light but many bad things as well have come to us because of it

[warm zephyr]

I mean giving the light to a species on the brink of extinction to gain unwavering loyalty seems kinda manipulative

[slim girder]

Which civilisation do you mean?

[warm zephyr]

humans

[slim girder]

We weren't on the brink of extinction when we first saw the traveler.

It sent us into the golden age

[warm zephyr]

ye but he didnt give us the light then he just gave us technology right?

[slim girder]

It gave us light through the act of terraforming our worlds. Mercury sprouted gardens, Humans lifespan tripled, life in Sol was better and we were able to do things we couldn't before

It rained on Mars when we met it for the first time

[warm zephyr]

ye but it never gave humans light directly

[dapper kayak]

RAINED ON FUCKING MARS?

[slim girder]

Imagine you grow corn and thanks to the travelers light that corn grows in a week

[warm zephyr]

it just did some nice things got into the humans good graces

then waited untill we was on the brink of collapse to send the ghosts out

[slim girder]

Yes. If you saw the cutscene of the astronauts meeting the traveler on mars you'll see it began to rain

[dapper kayak]

d1 opening?

wait no

[slim girder]

Yes. And D2 now with the new light campaign

[warm zephyr]

isnt it likely that the traveler was very hands off during d1 and red war because it was trying to hide from the whitness? and useing so much light would make it very obvious to the whitness where the traveler was?

[jagged badge]

It never give any species Light directly until our Collapse

[slim girder]

The traveler used the last of its light to send out the ghosts. It took a chance with us.
It was severely weakened and almost was consumed by the witness. But it used what it could to protect us.
As for the witness following it that wouldn't have mattered. It was always following it and during the collapse it saw the traveler was for lack of a better word "asleep" but when it finally woke up fully the black fleet was there ready to get back to hunting it.

[jagged badge]

The Traveler’s goal has always been fostering growth in species. It never wanted to make soldiers of people, but in our Collapse, it felt that it had to take a stand and at least give humanity a chance to protect itself

[warm zephyr]

I mean to the traveller it didnt know it was following if I remember right the only reason the whitness knew where the traveler was because the nine told them so to the traveler hiding its light would be the best way to hide from it like at the end of red war sending out that big light wave would be a massive becon telling it where the traveler was

[slim girder]

The traveler left their world and they've chased it ever since. The traveler can't hide from it.
As i said though after the collapse it was "asleep" and the witness was led to believe it couldn't enact the final shape with an unconscious traveler so waited outside the galaxy for it to wake back up.

The witness already knew it was on earth

It knew it wasn't going anywhere

[warm zephyr]

I swear I remember somewhere in the lore that the nine told them whitness where the traveler was

[slim girder]

The witness and nine have not spoken at any point in the lore to my knowledge.
The nine simply observe.

[warm zephyr]

and why did the whitness take so long to chase?

is the traveler just really fast?

or did combining its self just take a really long time?

[ember storm]

The witness also never wanted to have to do anything itself

The collapse was performed by Nezarec

[slim girder]

No real explanation for that. It really just moves and parks planet to planet..

[ember storm]

There was zero point staying in the system when it would be alerted whenever the traveler woke back up (as seen at the end of red war)

[ember storm]

We can see it leaves orbit in literal seconds, so it is fast

It’s also capable of literally teleporting as seen at the end of WQ

[slim girder]

But also the witness was a whole galaxy away. That is an insane distance to cover

[proven mist]

I have a question, what is open access

[ember storm]

Is this new lore I’m unaware of

[warm zephyr]

everyone gets all dlcs and dungeons keys free for a few weeks

[proven mist]

ah ok, so the final shape DLC i purchased wont have any effect right

[slim girder]

Sry I got confused for a sec lol

[proven mist]

I can keep playing it

[slim girder]

Yes

[warm zephyr]

yes

[ember storm]

It’s not going to take it away from you to let other play for free

You don’t need to share

[proven mist]

ok good I was just worried because I heard Forsaken was removed a while back and was like

[warm zephyr]

so the traveler just got a big head start because it took a long time to combine its self?

[ember storm]

That was content vaulting

[proven mist]

would they remove anything else as well, etc

[dapper kayak]

no more dcv

[ember storm]

This is just a free access weekend to get people to try it out so they want to buy later

[proven mist]

ah gotchu ty

[dapper kayak]

they said they'd stop removing content

[slim girder]

Well just because the cutscene is only a minute long doesn't mean that actually happened. No doubting just trying to be open.

[proven mist]

so does this mean renegades will be around for a while longer, I havent purchased that one and dont plan to either

[slim girder]

I guess?

[proven mist]

too expensive

[ember storm]

Eramis and Mithrax were also having a 1:1 conversation the whole time

[warm zephyr]

why did the whitness even bother making the black fleet when it could just do everything its self

[ember storm]

Also we were literally inside seraph station at that point it wouldn’t take us an hour to break into the control room to stop her

[ember storm]

You know the witness backstory right

It used to be an actual civilization of normal people

Those are the ships they had

[proven mist]

since this is the lore channel anyways, when eramis was talking about the great machine, did she mean the traveller's followers?

[slim girder]

The black fleet is what was used to trap the traveler and surround Sol

[ember storm]

The great machine is what Eliksni (fallen) call the traveler translated

[warm zephyr]

why did it need the black fleet to trap the traveler couldn't it of done it its self?

[ember storm]

We only call the traveler that because the astronaut team who made first contact were talking about it while playing basketball

[ember storm]

Because it can’t

[proven mist]

ohh I see

[ember storm]

See the opening cutscene of Lightfall

[proven mist]

im doing the final shape right now(traveler's heart)

[ember storm]

Pyramid ships literally surround the traveler and immobilize it

[proven mist]

yeah

[ember storm]

The witness can’t just grab hold and restrain it

[slim girder]

The black fleet is the witnesses tool.

[warm zephyr]

so it could of been named basketball?

[ember storm]

It was named after a basketball term

Traveler

[proven mist]

well he did blast the traveler with his power I think, dont remember the cutscene exactly

but he(the witness) seemed to be a lot more powerful than it(the traveler)

[ember storm]

Traveling

[warm zephyr]

man they missed out on calling it basketball way better name

[proven mist]

nah wouldnt be as gloomy and mysterious

[ember storm]

Looks more like an exercise ball to me with those circles

[ember storm]

The only issue is that the traveler tried fighting back with a life creation beam (which is how it tore through the pyramids, creating giant roots)

[warm zephyr]

I mean it just writes a triangle in its face and it seems pretty immobilised

[ember storm]

The witness as a being is literally made of pure darkness, you can’t make life out of it

[ember storm]

that was the ending

[proven mist]

but still the traveler was infected with his forces and his power embedded into it

[ember storm]

After the veil was linked to the pale heart

Also the pyramid ships were still there

All the witness did was open the door after it was unlocked

[proven mist]

why is the guy named the witness

[warm zephyr]

who wins big red lazer or black fleet?

[ember storm]

Black fleet

The renegade shit literally only kills guardians

Also it’s like just a ship with a gun

[warm zephyr]

but big red lazers anti precasual and the black fleet ships are precasual

[ember storm]

They’re ships

They just use darkness weapons

[warm zephyr]

and are darkness shielded and probs are powerd by darkness too

[slim girder]

Black fleet has numbers. The eclipse ship would probably knock out the darkness weapons but the fleet is still very capable without darkness..

[ember storm]

Yeah so like

There’s a lot of them

And they aren’t going to be in a straight line

And the big red laser takes a while to actually charge and fire

[warm zephyr]

it like juat turns

[ember storm]

Are we really powerscaling inanimate objects right now

I’m going to get lunch

[warm zephyr]

ya its entertaining

would the big lazer kill the whitness?

[ember storm]

I have no idea I haven’t played the game since heresy

[slim girder]

Probably but the witness is dead anyway so not a thing to really explore

[ember storm]

Does the laser actually completely negate anything paracausal

[warm zephyr]

would big lazer kill the nine is the real question

[ember storm]

Would it kill Starhorse

Do the nine even have a thing to aim the laser at

[slim girder]

Yes. Paracausal objects are completely nullified

[warm zephyr]

guess thats why we need bind them first so we can lazer them after

[slim girder]

The traveler

[ember storm]

I guess technically

[warm zephyr]

what happens if we shoot the lazer at the vail?

[slim girder]

That's what they attempted to do in renegades

[slim girder]

Probalby the same thing. Nullified

[ember storm]

It’s underground

[slim girder]

Opening on the top of the facility.

[ember storm]

Then it uses sleep powder

[warm zephyr]

Neptune doesnt have a undergound

[ember storm]

It doesn’t have a giant psychic darkness mushroom either but it’s there

Veil containment definitely goes down beneath the surface idk what to tell you

[warm zephyr]

Neptune's made of gas what surface are we talking of

[ember storm]

The surface that neomuna is built on

There’s solid ground

You’ve actually been there right

It’s not a floating cloud city

[slim girder]

Neptune even IRL has ice on it

It's called an ice giant

This is destiny though so remember the traveler def changed a lot, Neptune literally has diamond rocks

Sparkling shorlines and heavy winds

[warm zephyr]

it has ice but no defined surface

[ember storm]

Neptune raining diamonds is an irl scientific theory

Just because the conditions could make it possible but there’s no proof

[warm zephyr]

I think the ice floats? maybe idk Google dont say

[warm zephyr]

I kinda just thought thats why its called the cloud city because its a floating city around neptune

maybe the vail is in the core of the city its self?

not inside the planet

[slim girder]

Neomuna is a "coastal city" in space.

[slim girder]

Yes the veil is in the city. Not the core

[warm zephyr]

I mean u can make a artifical coast line

[ember storm]

Remember the exodus ship crashed there

They didn’t build the ground to stand on

if it were 1:1 with reality they’d have just sank into the gas and been crushed by the gravity

[warm zephyr]

as I see it with the nails unlimited power you could really make as big of a landmass as you wanted

[ember storm]

There was already solid ground to stand on, that’s what the sand is

[ember storm]

They didn’t have the veil when they crashed

Also the veil has nothing to do with creation or terraforming, that’s what the traveler does

[slim girder]

The veil was found when they arrived. And it was very dangerous. Killed many people simply from trying to interact with it

It doesn't do anything the traveler can and is it's opposite

[warm zephyr]

maybe the vail created the land or savathun

[ember storm]

Also it was indirectly responsible for creating Lakshmi so I hate it

[slim girder]

If FWC has no haters left I'm dead

[warm zephyr]

can we bring back rasputin he was cool

[ember storm]

Glory to Lysander

[warm zephyr]

just say you found a flash drive with a copy of rasputin on it

[dim minnow]

No, he's dead

[slim girder]

My allegiance is with the space emos

[ember storm]

that’s what the engram was

Used it up

[ember storm]

Ew hung jury fan

[warm zephyr]

naw we can find a flash drive with a copy

[ember storm]

Ok go find it

[dim minnow]

A simple flash drive is not enough to hold him

[warm zephyr]

then a big flash drive

if he was a super smart ai surely he created a copy somewhere

[slim girder]

Rasputin isn't something that can just be copied

[dim minnow]

An engram was barely enough to contain him and even then it wasn't perfect.

[slim girder]

He's the most sophisticated AI in the solar system

[warm zephyr]

then just make a big engram

[dim minnow]

Even the Vex couldn't simulate him

[ember storm]

Ok go do that

[warm zephyr]

then why did he try to head on the black fleet

[dim minnow]

Quit coping, he ain't coming back

[warm zephyr]

he will in my dreams ok

https://tenor.com/view/dog-crying-meme-doggo-crys-megan-soo-crying-dog-gif-5276199764143986284

[slim girder]

He didn't. Ana did that one

[ember storm]

Because he hid away like a coward during the collapse and felt bad about it

In arrivals he tried to fight back and it don’t work

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-x-kong-the-new-empire-kong-punch-new-empire-kong-punch-kong-shut-up-gxk-gif-13295031395258933994

Rasputin vs Black Fleet

[warm zephyr]

he should of kept his core on planet and just sent probes to try fight them he wasnt smart

what if the traveler was rasputin all along

[ember storm]

So like that’s what he did

Literally

The warsats shot lasers at the pyramids approaching the system

The pyramids just ignored it and sat down on mars and shut him off

[sullen falcon]

What is the closest class to Xivu Arath? Is it warlock? Idk what hive god would fall under

[queen swallow]

We have our own Hive god in the form of Eris, who used to be a Hunter if that means anything

[sullen falcon]

It means something

My ingame name is Xivu Arath so I wanted to do a character that is that sorta theme

[slim girder]

Titan prolly

All fire and big entrances

[sullen falcon]

I was thinking hunter, or warlock. Mainly because there's Crota/Oryx which he seems more titan based. Savuthun which is Warlock/sorcery. I do see how Xivu could be a titan tho, second female knight would point to a titan

[ember storm]

Oryx is hunter analog

his entire thing is traversing the universe and exploring

Xivu is the hive knight, the very first and the literal god of war

[sullen falcon]

So definitely titan then

I must've read something wrong. I could've sweared I read she was the second comfirmed female knight

[ember storm]

the three siblings were literally the first hive to ever exist

[sullen falcon]

I see, so definitely either read something wrong or read something that was wrong

Thank you for clearing that up for me

[trim grotto]

Titan. Oryx the Navigator represents the Hunter. Savathun is of course the Warlock.

[sullen falcon]

I see, then I guess it's confirmed. I will never leave titan again lol

[eager trout]

Y'all, real life Saturn has a hexagon in one of its poles, and Saturn is VI

[frigid sparrow]

which is why she can blade barrage

[slim girder]

Those are dawnblade swords.

[frigid sparrow]

and what is a sword? a really big blade

and what else is a blade? that's right, the knives of a blade barrage

and how do the swords come out? like a barrage

[low vector]

Why is drifter shown with thorn in these cinematics? Or is it revealed later?

[frigid sparrow]

Thorn is the gun most typically associated with Dredgens due to its role as a guardian killer

albeit, every one of them has lesser versions

[low vector]

Ah so it's a cloned gun? I noticed it was red

[frigid sparrow]

that's just for style

but the thorn we see is not the real one

[low vector]

Gotcha

[frigid sparrow]

this is the real thorn

[low vector]

Were those like flashbacks cause iirc he uses malfeasance

[frigid sparrow]

they're visions of a bad future

Malfeasance was made specifically for Shin Malphur since Drifter was big on building up a group to get the fuck out of sol

but, being a dredgen, he was still scared of what Shin would do if he found Drifter

so, he made malfeasance and gave it to the guardians who'd follow him with the intent of killing shin on the spot

And all of us, with this in hand? Even the Man with the Golden Gun should have pause.

Maybe we can't out-shoot him. Maybe he can't be out-shot. But if we all take our shot together? We don't have to beat him to it.

He'll die, too.

Remember this. For when the day comes.

[trim grotto]

Well
Drifter was working directly alongside Shin

Unfortunately since I'm at work I don't have time to explain

ha ha funny Elsie joke

[jagged badge]

[mortal wind]

Where's Shin drifter lore fr?

Shin malphur lore is cool

the classic showdown is classic of course but I love everything that came after

[ember storm]

She also uses nova warp and stormcaller, what do you want

[frigid sparrow]

twilight arsenal would be kinda hype

[ember storm]

Didnae exist at the time

[frigid sparrow]

she's in the pale heart

she can go to the cosmodrome

kill a couple dozen taken

[ember storm]

You’re expecting them to update her moveset

[frigid sparrow]

surely

[mortal wind]

Who made Barrow Dyad?

[frigid sparrow]

we dunno

[ember storm]

I did at the enclave

[dim minnow]

Barrow might have come to be as a result of Taken fuckery on the Dreadnaught

We know it is a living creature

[mortal wind]

We do?

[dim minnow]

take a closer look at it, you can see it move

also I think Bungie said it was a living thing in a reveal stream

[mortal wind]

Cool

[slim girder]

Barrow dyad was said by bungie to be a proto-weapon of sorrow

[hollow drum]

are most enemy brigs piloted or robots

[dim minnow]

they seem to be piloted

[hard sigil]

the only one that wasn't was insurrection prime iirc

but that's because it was integrated with a servitor

[hollow drum]

are walkers piloted too

cause that fucks me up

[frigid sparrow]

the smaller ones might be too compact with heated mechanisms

[hollow drum]

don’t we pilot brigs of the same size

or are the ones in heavy metal larger

[frigid sparrow]

they look larger

[hollow drum]

kind of odd for them to manufacture normally automated brigs and then brigs ever so slightly scaled up specifically to pilot

wonder if that would make pilotable brigs a last city/house light creation

[frigid sparrow]

the ones we've definitively seen be piloted in the FS adventure and zero hour were super big

actually I'm misremembering the hollow it wasn't korrha inside he just got crushed by it

however, the brig used to kill him was likely unmanned

because mithrax wanted that mf killed by his hand and slamming a giant brig really does the trick

[vital linden]

is osiris dead ?

[frigid sparrow]

no?

[trim grotto]

Not unless he's stinking up an apartment somewhere because nobody's found him yet.

Why do you ask?

[hard sigil]

there's a lore tab from renegades about him and saint noticing the gold in their teacups have become magnetised due to IIIs death

[vital linden]

ikora says i wish osiris could have seen this in the final shape

so i thought hes dead

[frigid sparrow]

no, he's just a frail old man right now after losing his light

[queen swallow]

If anything, it feels more like they're setting up Zavala to die than Osiris from the voice lines in the Renegades missions

[slim girder]

That was because he wasn't there.

[mortal wind]

Frail old man vs. ancient enemy of.. everything really

[trim grotto]

As far as I'm aware, Zavala ought to have centuries left in him. He's still Awoken, after all.

[queen swallow]

Have you played through the campaign yet? Because otherwise I won't spoiler it

[ember storm]

no mael doesn't play anything

all he knows is tea and helldivers

[trim grotto]

That's honestly accurate at the moment
I have not played it yet but I have been divin'

[slim girder]

Play it. I wanna talk lore with you.

And the lore is really good

[trim grotto]

What's that? Play Helldivers? Can do!

[slim girder]

We have helldivers in D2 now

Grab abilities, get in, do objectives, call for exfil and then get out

[warm zephyr]

do us as the guardian even need the traveler anymore since we have strand and other darkness classes

[trim grotto]

Without the Traveler, Ghosts have no Light. No Ghost, no resurrection.

Our immortality is lost, our resurrections are denied, our enhanced capabilities are vanished.

We would be simple mortals. Sure, we'd have Strand and Stasis, but that's all we've got going for us then.

[lyric karma]

what was the other technology that lodi mentioned during the heliostat beginning encounter? When Ikora tells Lodi about siva he says he didn't think there'd be a second time

[slim girder]

I think he might be talking about how tech was back in his time. He's from the 1950s of Chicago so he would have been around to witness things such as WW2. Where many people were advancing technology to hurt others.

[lyric karma]

to be honest sounds a bit naive considering he worked in department of external observation

But I thought there were some clues or mentions of such technology but it seems it's either something bungie left for future or just abandoned completely

[slim girder]

He was still part of a government organisation that made things like weapons.
Dr Nella (ikora) was said to be experimenting with a gun that used black hole distortion. We now know that gun as graviton lance.
Lodis organisation also did an autopsy on JFKs body after his assassination

Atom bombs, chemical weapons, many awful weapons were made in that time in the war and Lodi would have been around to witness that sort of thing and how terrible it all was.

[hard sigil]

also one of the recent lore tabs reveals that Lodi was a pilot during the war

[river surge]

Also a recent lore tab tells us The Great Lakes have changed

[slim girder]

Many things have due to IIIs death.
The Andes are partially copper now. For context these are the Andes mountains. One of the biggest mountain ranges in the world

[slim girder]

Discovered this yesterday.
If you collect all the ghosts in renegades there's a recording from drifter talking about the Lord of every nothing. Says it's the combined will of the taken and that we should stay ready because the future is all knives and teeth.

Cool to finally see an official in game mention of it

[ember storm]

I could dodge it

[slow berry]

He's specifically referring to the cold war and nuclear weapons

[slow berry]

would current lightless osiris go flawless in trials of osiris if he competed or would he get washed by a glaiveposter

[dapper moss]

is osiris even good at his own trials

[slow berry]

he's literally never been involved with them i think

like ever

[frigid sparrow]

I don't think he could do the stupid warlock bullshit either

Like he can't weavewalk look at what that shit does to your body

He's mostly relying on being a good shot and having a limited amount of strand abilities

[ember storm]

He had one talk with Vance where he decided to not stop them happening

Then when Saint tried to talk about it Osiris literally didn’t know who Vance was

[queen swallow]

Not anymore because he’s Lightless

[fluid peak]

He's talking about radioactive fallout

[hallow horizon]

watching byf's 10 hour destiny lore video, this is kinda peak what the hell

[blazing wasp]

the worldbuilding for D2 is excessive in the best way

[hallow horizon]

is destiny lore complete btw? like are they currently just adding more stuff? or is it still ongoing and we don't know everything about foor example the light and darkness saga

[blazing wasp]

theyre adding more and more, theres also current pre-existing lore stuff not fully explored

torobatl for example

[hallow horizon]

okayy

is it more known than like warframe lore though?

which as far as I know is still pretty messy

[hard sigil]

depends on the subject

but it's generally less ambiguous

[blazing wasp]

dunno

[blazing wasp]

most of destiny's lore is pretty... "unmessy"

[hallow horizon]

well at least we know what the witness who si basically the main antagonist is

[hard sigil]

warframe likes to act like all its lore is an act of archeology

[hallow horizon]

in warframe we have no clue what wally really is I think

[hard sigil]

because it's all so far in the past that there's essentially no reliable sources

[hallow horizon]

right

[hard sigil]

while in destiny we do have multiple primary sources

and people who were actively there

when all the important stuff happened

[hallow horizon]

right right

[hard sigil]

so it's a lot less open ended, but there's still a good amount of mystery

[blazing wasp]

afaik, Warfarme's lore is very... Diegetic?

[hard sigil]

things like the aphelion or the Chicago monster

[blazing wasp]

whereas Destiny's lore tabs arent always so

[hallow horizon]

wait do we have like eldritch horror stuff in destiny?

not just d2 smh

[hard sigil]

ehh in a way

[blazing wasp]

aphelions i guess.

[hard sigil]

the nine are pretty close

[blazing wasp]

the taken maybe

[fluid peak]

In terms of story progression, Warframe is also in a very different spot (they've just hit their stride for their big long term story arc) compared to destiny as well

[fluid peak]

The vex

[blazing wasp]

Vex is basically eldritch horror ants.

really good at building, in large numbers, goes to war a lot

[hallow horizon]

but no wally type stuff? only smaller eldritch horrors?

[fluid peak]

The vex are an idea that fled from warring gods and broke into our reality with the sole purpose of making it all vex

[hard sigil]

the hive are kinda like the fish people from innsmouth

[hallow horizon]

or would the nine count as that big of a deal

[hard sigil]

yeah the nine are closest to wally

in the sense of being pretty much omnipresent and responsible for major events

[fluid peak]

Wally is weird I don't think even the Nine really compare to him

[blazing wasp]

Eldritch horrors that are also explored and conveyed in a way thats ment to be somewhat understood is difficult

[hallow horizon]

I like eldritch horror stuff

[blazing wasp]

Nine is maybe the most vague lore titbit if we factor in how much we know about them

[hard sigil]

I guess Nezarec's current existence is kinda Old One like

existing only in nightmares

[fluid peak]

Wally is what you get when you hold a mirror up to an advanced humanity that is so twisted by greed and cruelty and then you rip the fingers off the reflection to really commit to that cruelty

Destiny doesn't really do evils that are dark reflections of humanity. You could argue the eliksni are what we could end up being without the traveller, I suppose

[hard sigil]

whilst the Nine are beings who are concurrently experiencing their birth, lifespan, and death at once, and have very mixed feelings about it

[fluid peak]

But it's not the same

They're very different universes and they don't really work as comparisons

Destiny is a story of hope, Warframe is not

[blazing wasp]

we had like two whole ass years establishing good and evil as something thats not like... objective

theres no "force for evil"

[fluid peak]

Even for Warframe Wally isn't really evil per se

From his perspective we broke a deal we made with him and now he's come to collect on it despite our reluctance

[blazing wasp]

ah

yeah i admittedly dont know shit about warframe lore lmao

[hallow horizon]

I don't know shit about either except a tiny bit about wally

[fluid peak]

From a meta standpoint 'evil for the sake of evil' isn't super interesting for a character or group of characters to be so it's actually pretty rare in stories that try to take themselves seriously

[hard sigil]

I'd say Xivu is really the only Evil character right now really

considering her goal is to commit as much violence as possible

[fluid peak]

Xivu's motivation is more complicated than "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE" though

[blazing wasp]

We also have that whole worldbuilding actually making the hive seem reasonable from their PoV

[fluid peak]

She's the last head of a universe-spanning death cult that had its religious doctrine comprehended, dismantled, and dismissed, and then she got kicked out of her own house and the door locked behind her
Then her own brother's ghost decided he'd rather die than help her
And her sister betrayed all they worked for so she could have a better hand

[eager trout]

when you realize we finally know what happened to Xur

[hard sigil]

I mean we've known for a little

but the whole "he was their first attempt at an emissary" thing is new

[trim grotto]

no it isn't

[eager trout]

But know we know specifically

[slow berry]

no it aint

we've know for a good bit about xur's deal

the nine making the best out of an ahamkara classic

[hard sigil]

I can't keep getting things wrong like this </3 my poor memory

[slow berry]

I am interested in what the fuck was the deal with that added scene to the Drifter rocks at our window cutscene

[hard sigil]

the what

[dim minnow]

I think Lith is referring to the cutscene we got after completing the Chess Puzzle we got towards the end of Heresy

[hard sigil]

oh right

[open monolith]

Idk if it's obvious, but in the cutscene where Eris and Lodi summon 6 and he says "You will turn Bael into unrecognizable meat", does that mean the Outers have "crafted our shadow" and with 6 practicing the sword logic, Bael is meant to tithe for 6, grow really strong and then they've destined for us to kill Bael which will bring 6 massive tithes, possibly enough for him to break out of his reality?

[hard sigil]

either way works for VI. Bael is a tool for it. Nightfall was meant to kill thousands of guardians and ghosts and generates enough tithes for VI to leave. VI doesn't completely understand sword logic, so it's hard to tell how developed its plan is though. It's also completely fair to say that VI has seen a future of us doing exactly that to Bael

[open monolith]

Interesting. I only just found out it's likely 6 and the lord of every nothing are different entities. A Nine practicing sword logic has so many possible implications

[hard sigil]

I had the thought back in EoF that VI was attempting to form a throne world to orbit in the ascendant plane instead, but now considering that VI doesn't actually understand how sword logic works (or death in general but that's a whole other can of worms), I doubt it'll get that far

[slim girder]

VI is not very knowledgable on this. All it thinks is "Kills must mean escape" but has seemingly no idea about the rituals needed to do so

It could learn this eventually though and Bael has adopted the books of sorrow so he's already got some idea of sword logic

[dim minnow]

it's pretty much confirmed they are separate entities

[slim girder]

I wonder if Baels end isn't actually from us or anyone killing him but instead him just turning completely into metal like most of his body already is

The Eramis treatment basically

[hard sigil]

that could be cool

[slim girder]

Obviously I don't expect this to happen anytime soon as bungie wants to explore him further but it's already very clear that he's deteriorating at a rapid rate so just how long does he have left and is VI the one causing it as punishment each time he fails? Or is this just the side effect on its own from allowing one of the nine to speak through you?

[hard sigil]

I think it's just something that happens

[river surge]

100% next time when we met him he will have a robotic arm

If they dont do that

I am gonna sue Bungie

[hard sigil]

it seems being vetted like Lodi gave him some amount of ability to transmutate material so he's able to constantly revert himself to be the right materials, but there's a lot of talk about him converting to different elements constantly

it just seems to be what happens when the Nine interacts with physical matter. rearrangement of subatomic particles

it makes sense that VI is called the Alchemist

considering the ultimate goal of alchemy, is the transmutation of metals

[river surge]

Also we will have The Alchemist expansion which will be fully about VI

Imagine we kill VI

[meager coral]

I feel like more nine dying would be really bad

[hard sigil]

that would be very counterintuitive and go against III's message

[meager coral]

I could see us binding it to Bael though, since they are already partially bound

[river surge]

So uh

Earth is changing huh