📚lore-discussion

[river surge]

then

Why didnt we shut it down when we had the chance to

with the warminds?

cause we could actually do that

[warm zephyr]

no but giving a person gas vs giving someone a nuke is different

[hard sigil]

I mean. that's what the abhorrent imperative was

[warm zephyr]

you mean shutdown the travelr?

[river surge]

In case but they never did

[hard sigil]

like Clovis specifically did want to use the warsats to destroy the traveller if it ever tried to leave or somehow stop benefiting him specifically

[river surge]

Abhorrent imperative was a code set to the warminds in case the traveler left humanity we would shut it down

warsats sorry

[hard sigil]

it was Rasputin who stopped it

[river surge]

Rasputin our goat

[warm zephyr]

love rasputin I want more of him

[hard sigil]

it's been a while since seraph I think that's how it went

well he's like. dead

so

[river surge]

I mean thoughout the entire golden age Clovis was like

[hard sigil]

comically evil

[river surge]

Yes

[warm zephyr]

humanity is blinded by the fact they have been given power from the traveler also if we kill the traveler we loose light powers dont we? and the whitness is now dead so I dont think anyone cares

[river surge]

Yes

[hard sigil]

nobody had the light in the golden age

[river surge]

Wait ur talking abt now not during the golden age correct?

[hard sigil]

not like guardians, at least. we had technology that utilised and wouldn't have been possible to be developed without the immense amount of resources the traveller gave to us, but that's it

[warm zephyr]

ya we was given light after the hive came correct?

[hard sigil]

after the collapse

the ghosts were released

[warm zephyr]

ye but during those times we had no reason to hate or want to destroy the traveler and by time we learn of the things he did we are rather distracted fighting the whitness or whitness is dead and we dont care about what the whitness did

[hard sigil]

the hive weren't really an issue until we made our way back to the moon

[warm zephyr]

arent we basically what the whitness wanted to be?

[blazing wasp]

we're partially what the winnower would approve of

we're a direct opposition to what the witness wanted to be or wants us to be

it hated us, to the point it sought to artificially prolong our extinction during its assault just to maximise suffering

[warm zephyr]

arent we a merging of light and darkness though just like the whitness?

[hard sigil]

for the witness, that was a step toward the final shape

it only needed that to happen so it could bend the traveller to its will

[blazing wasp]

the witness wasnt a big fan of having to use the light at all

it just begrudgingly did so because it had to

[warm zephyr]

so the gaurdian is just the perfect god now basically?

[blazing wasp]

The traveller supports free will, benevolence, things the witness is very much opposed to

[blazing wasp]

not even remotely

flawed, and not a god

we're probably not even the top 50th guardian

even then the top guardians cant really have fistfights with oryx in his prime either

[hard sigil]

The Guardian is just simply the best multi-purpose tool the vanguard has at it's disposal. there's certainly stronger and smarter guardians than us, we just happen to be skilled at establishing a front line

[blazing wasp]

If we'd be a god at all, it'd be something in the lines of "god of sabotage", given how many powerful enemies we've handled without really "fighting" them so to speak

[warm zephyr]

I more ment gaurdians in the entirety just like the whitness is thousands of people

[blazing wasp]

a gross oversimplification of what the witness is but

i guess

but the guardians arent really gods like that

the light/dark arent ideologies

they're just forces, tools

[hard sigil]

and there's definitely things guardians explicitly can't do

we can't terraform or create matter like the traveller can

[blazing wasp]

at most, us using darkness and light says we're pragmatic

not giving a shit about what dogmatic zealots would tell us, if we have a tool that can help us we should use it

darkness doesnt make us evil nor does light make us good

[hard sigil]

we're only really good for manipulating things that are pre-existing, or creating an effect without a cause (one would call this paracausality)

[blazing wasp]

it just turns out that the benevolent godlike entity also has the light

and i suppose the god who values free will would have the paracausal power unrelated to the psychological.

[warm zephyr]

so do all gaurdians use both ligh and dark now or only a few?

[blazing wasp]

close, thats acausality, its rather that our cause is due to an effect that shouldnt really have that cause, yet does

[blazing wasp]

oh quite a lot of guardians used light and dark, but i think we're the first to mix them together.

[hard sigil]

I'd say most guardians have probably picked up stasis or strand by now

definitely not all of them

[blazing wasp]

probably a matter of training before other guardians can combine them

[warm zephyr]

so was we just the first?

[hard sigil]

for strand, yes

[blazing wasp]

first to use strand period, i think first guardian in this timeline to use stasis?

but lots of other guardians followed suit

[hard sigil]

actually wouldn't it be drifter

[blazing wasp]

not a lot at first since at that time people still viewed darkness as bad and light as good

[warm zephyr]

did the exotic stranger use stasis?

[blazing wasp]

that they were forces representing ideology

[blazing wasp]

ah right

[hard sigil]

yeah Elsie uses stasis

[blazing wasp]

well hes technically not a "guardian" and instead a "lightbearer"

[blazing wasp]

shes not a guardian tho

[warm zephyr]

ah oki

[blazing wasp]

but id argue those are not relevant semantics.

in my book he'd be a guardian doing it before us.

but we were absolutely among the earlier stasis guardians

[warm zephyr]

so first to use stasis stand and first to combine light and dark?

[blazing wasp]

not first to use stasis

usage of stasis predates the earths existence

[hard sigil]

we're certainly a trailblazer

[blazing wasp]

we're among the first guardians however

first to use strand, shit we discovered it

and first guardian to combine light and dark

the witness was already cooking with both inside of the traveller

nezarec also probably had light and dark fucking around in his newly formed body in root

[warm zephyr]

so basically we are just blessed by alot of gods?

[blazing wasp]

we're blessed by one god

the traveler

[warm zephyr]

eris blessed us right?

[blazing wasp]

stasis we kinda "earned" and strand we just discovered and used

[blazing wasp]

shes didnt

and if she did, she wasnt a god when she did

she was very very briefly a god, we were quite literally her thrall

shes the IRS and we're her IRS agents

[warm zephyr]

lol

[hard sigil]

we did some hokey sword logic stuff but we don't have a worm to do the trickle down soul economics with

[blazing wasp]

its technically bomb logic, we just used sword logic to use the bomb logic.

which is technically bomb logic

[warm zephyr]

now we just need to be blessed by the force in the star wars dlc

[ember storm]

can i eat the force

[jagged badge]

Don’t hold your breath for that

[river surge]

Da dark said of da fos

[shy remnant]

How we feeling chat

[ember storm]

hungry

[pseudo pebble]

Could it possibly be Cyrell

Ghost chain is pretty on theme

[shy remnant]

Yeah that seems likely now

Definitely feels like the whole bring down the vanguard thing in the trailer would fall in line with his goals

[broken owl]

I just got here and understand everything

[shy remnant]

Bro is all knowing

[ember storm]

hello chat i am searching by new on the lore reddit for kicks

what is this person complaining about

[shy remnant]

Drifter and his ghost don’t talk anymore and this specific lore implies that his ghost had lost the ability to speak. I believe there was something in the datapads regarding their reconciliation within ash and iron but I’m not too sure.

Basically their relationship is very strained although it’s possible this could be explained in renegades

[ember storm]

why are they complaining about a retcon

[dapper moss]

it's not even retconned

like we don't even know if it speaks or not

[shy remnant]

It’s not a super bad “retcon” at least not compared to everything with aunor

That’s like the biggest issue I have with all of renegades rn

[dim minnow]

lore from data pads found in Portal activities shows that she wants to try and reconcile with him

we don't know why she is speaking now though

we were under the impression that ever since Drifter grafted the Ghost parts onto her, she stopped speaking and hasn't since

[shy remnant]

It’s definitely something that could be explained within renegades so not too bad

Reddit just being Reddit

[pseudo pebble]

What did they retcon regarding Aunor

Is it the appearance description

[shy remnant]

Yes both her appearance and armor set

[pseudo pebble]

oh

[shy remnant]

Not much room for interpretation for “dark skin with a crooked nose”

[pseudo pebble]

New Gear was enabled

She needed it to play DLC content

not enough synthweave for ornaments

[shy remnant]

Honestly it bothers me more that they whitewashed her

Like it’s a very blatant disregard of the lore

It makes me feel that they changed her entire character to fit the Jedi archetype

[pseudo pebble]

Good critique

They def could’ve done it all without white washing her I agree

[trim grotto]

Final sentence. "It could no longer speak."
That, to me, suggested outright inability due to the modifications.

[ember storm]

ok so what changed between then and now

[trim grotto]

That said, it's also been years. Not exactly a stretch to imagine the modifications got fine tuned.

[ember storm]

i don't like using the retcon word a lot

[trim grotto]

Oh it isn't a retcon
Retcon would mean it could/did always talk the whole time and this entry was incorrect
As opposed to now it can speak

Guy's probably just annoyed the main "personality" trait of Drifter's Ghost is gone, but y'know
Now it can actually have a personality, so

[slow berry]

As far as the datapads go, it still couldn't speak

All internal monologue

With the death of III and Drifter's and the Nine's relationship changing, a lot of things could happen

[dim minnow]

well no, the datapads just establish why she's trying to fix her relationship with him

[slow berry]

lines like "my silence made me grow", "maybe it's best i don't speak now" and other make me think she can't speak

01100010 01101100 01110101 01100101
i try not to think about how much I gave up for him. my voice. my agency.

not for myself, but for him too. so both of us could survive.

if only i'd known.

[tardy elbow]

From the little we got of his ghost, it doesn't really seem like her speech is how normal ghosts talk anymore

She was kind of making SW droid beeps/trills

[slow berry]

they said she was snarky iirc

so like

who knows

[hard sigil]

yeah she's probably going to be the r2d2 analogue. speaking in beeps that everyone but the audience understands as words

[tardy elbow]

I'm fine with that honestly

[shy remnant]

I know it’s a long shot but I want to see shin malphur in renegades

Maybe he’s just gonna be the obi wan archetype and act as a kooky old man

[dim minnow]

though they do have an actual VA for her

[hard sigil]

oh and also bael has a bunch of shell-less ghosts on a chain, which is like. very Cyrell-core. but they also all have green irises. which usually means hive ghosts

[slow berry]

yeah she's making the beeps and the boops

[queen walrus]

Love how the guy in the vidoc says "we have swords in destiny but not a- praxic sword. Like its so hard for even them to not say lightsaber. I wish Praxic blades were their own creative thing, Ive always been hoping for more Praxic Order stuff but when it finally arives, its for a starwars crossover. So unfortunate.

[river surge]

We are cooked

[tardy elbow]

I mean, that's just a vision that a member of the Nine gave Drifter

[river surge]

Still a very dark vision

[slim girder]

Have a feeling this is the vision drifter is being given by the nine. Wouldn't be surprised if Lodi possibly saw this considering they showed him many disasters

[river surge]

The Traveler dissected in half is just gut wrenching

It is the first time it was shown it fully destroyed

Directly to us

Even if its a vision

Still a very dark one

[hard sigil]

looks to be part of the same vision that has him firing a thorn at the guardians. but he has a thorn in his hand when he encounters Bael in the trailer, which seems to be the same scene where Bael tells him it finish it, and the same scene where he grabs blue out from in front of him

[river surge]

And theres this

[hard sigil]

we know it's a vision from the nine as it uses the stone textures on everything, which we saw in EoF and Rite cutscenes

[tardy elbow]

Something like that would ngl be dope as hell but it's not really a possibility since it would mean no Pale Heart location for Final Shape + No more light which they won't do

[river surge]

We can see Bael here enslaving The Traveler

This might be the actual plot

[hard sigil]

notably, there's also two scenes with Eris and Lodi in the same style, where Xûr is transposed over him

[river surge]

Thats right

[tardy elbow]

Is that not one of the ghosts without a shell that he has in chains on his body?

[hard sigil]

no it's just symbolism of his hate of the traveller, it's trapped in one of displays he places the ghosts in on the chain

[river surge]

Idkkk

[river surge]

Ohh

Maybe they will threathen to destroy The Traveler with that superweapom

Maybe thats what the vision is about

And we are going to stop that

[tardy elbow]

That's definitely the plan, we're almost definitely getting a moment like A New Hope where we have to destroy the superweapon before it fires

[river surge]

Idk man im just excited this expansion looks great so far

[river surge]

Bingo

[hard sigil]

the dialogue in the dungeon trailer we got today, and the other one seems to confirm that bael has been getting visions from VI on what to do

[tardy elbow]

I know some people aren't a fan of the cross over but I'm hyped as hell, it looks great

[hard sigil]

I wouldn't be surprised if all the visions with red lighting are specifically visions from VI to both Bael and the Drifter

as IX and the other inners' visions have blue lighting

[tardy elbow]

Ofc there's SW elements like the lightsabers and Praxic Order pretty much being turned into Jedi, but I still think it looks like a good mixture where it's not too too much

[hard sigil]

the Praxic order Jedi thing is an overreaction

[tardy elbow]

I could see these things actually being in the universe so it's not too much of a stretch

[slim girder]

Bungie did say that was a big thing. Striking a balance

[tardy elbow]

I know that but I've also seen a few people complaining about it

[hard sigil]

it's specifically just one member of the Praxic order going out of her way to help us. we won't be actively interacting with the order as a whole at all

[tardy elbow]

I know we'll have to wait until we have the expansion for ourselves, but from what they've shown us I think they did a good job

[dim minnow]

Imagine the other Outer Orbits are looking at VI like:

[slim girder]

Can we just talk about how cool dredgen bael is

[hard sigil]

to be fair the constant brainrot from the hive, taken and the dreadnaught screaming next to you would make me go crazy

[river surge]

Top 2 best designs in the game

Top 1 being Rhulk

[tardy elbow]

Genuinely the design is awesome

The helmet gives me Revan vibes which is never a bad thing

[slim girder]

Chains and a red cloak. Not to mention he's got a great VA

[hard sigil]

like 5 lines of attributed dialogue and he's already a better villain than maya

[river surge]

That VA fr sounds like Kylo Ren

[dim minnow]

not sure about his motivation though

[tardy elbow]

He sounds great

[tardy elbow]

LMAO NAH that's actually true though

[dim minnow]

like, he hates how the Guardians are essentially the ones in charge

[hard sigil]

it seems to be a follow-up on the "people are getting angry at the guardian institution" thread

[dim minnow]

which in of itself is kinda stupid considering the Guardians are the ones protecting them

[hard sigil]

it's fairly clear already that this base motivation allowed VI to manipulate him

[dim minnow]

besides, the Vanguard was likely moving towards a reform of the Last City government

[slim girder]

Harry Lee is the VA right? i forgor

[dim minnow]

I do hope there's something legitimate that got him like this

[river surge]

Aleks Lee

[dim minnow]

I think it was the guy who VAed english dub Zenitsu

[hard sigil]

he doesn't have a clear end goal from what we've seen I think that's the problem

[dim minnow]

no, he does, it's the vision

[hard sigil]

I mean that it's clear he wants to remove guardians from power, literally and in government, but past that is unclear

[tardy elbow]

He seems angry at them for not just protecting humanity but also leading them without being elected, so they're just always in control and can pretty much never die

Although based on the vision we got of the superweapon, it's clear he's also a hypocrite by using it to destroy the traveler and several innocent people that live in the Last City

[hard sigil]

his hate clouds his guidance

[hard sigil]

very dark side coded

which makes sense

[slim girder]

Makes me wonder if he was that guy selling weapons underground this whole time

[hard sigil]

well the imperium were said to have been getting advanced weapons from somewhere

with serious manufacturing ability

[tardy elbow]

Especially since VI is manipulating him, similar to how the dark side manipulates the ones who use it

[hard sigil]

VI*

[tardy elbow]

Oh oops my bad lol

[hard sigil]

there is no Eleven

[river surge]

VI is very mysterious

[hard sigil]

chat what if he's actually Lysander

[tardy elbow]

I pressed the wrong key and wasn't paying attention

[tardy elbow]

That'd be dope ngl

[dim minnow]

Lysander from what we heard was the opposite

it seems that the Concordat wanted the Guardians to be in control

[hard sigil]

it'd be funy

but yeah

it's probably cyrell

or just a new character completely who happens to have a chain with ghosts on it

[slim girder]

Only a week until we know

[hard sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/can-you-believe-guys-christmas-one-week-until-christmas-im-so-thriled-about-this-information-christmas-christmas-meme-gif-24202287

I'm feeling a lot better about it but I still haven't pre-ordered though

[paper gorge]

where is osiris and zavala , and what are they doing ?

[hard sigil]

Zavala stepped back as vanguard commander and gave the title to Ikora to mourn Targe, he's now learning stasis so he can still help out when needed. Osiris is doing research and enjoying time with Saint

[slim girder]

Wonder if this new planet destroyer is going to end up like the almighty where we can't fully destroy it without it taking a planet with it or something

Guess it depends what is actually powering the weapon. That red energy while yes screams that one star wars death star is still a very unique kind of energy.

[hard sigil]

we get hit by it and that's how we get the Red Subclass

this is certified Deer Truth

they said the Praxic Blades use dark matter crystals in the vidoc so I'm sure the cosmic incubator is just made out of a LOT of dark matter crystals

[river surge]

Lets destroy Saturn

[slim girder]

I always thought the cosmic incubator is the thing they're keeping drifter frozen inside of. Obviously that's just speculation though.

[hard sigil]

nah that's too fancy of a name for it

[slim girder]

Well this is the cabal. They have tech to shut off a ghost. Wouldn't be surprised if they've got a prison designed specifically for a guardian

Dredgen bael is def the sadistic type. He most definitely killed guardians but you can see on his belt those ghosts are still alive.

[hard sigil]

it's still strange to me that they're green because they're presumably not hive ghosts

[slim girder]

Ghosts can be any colours based on shell it seems.
I know eververse isn't too much in the lore but I'd have to assume things sold in eververse are canon and that includes ghost shells that change the colour of the eye of the ghost

[hard sigil]

yeah but all green?

[slim girder]

But the point still stands. He's murdered guardians but instead of stopping them permanently he just took their ghosts prisoner. Guess he really enjoys making them suffer because a guardian to their ghost is like family in a way

[hard sigil]

my guess is that he leaves them alive honestly. he seems to hate the position of power guardians are in more than the light itself

and they described him as a "dark guardian" so I assume he's got a ghost still himself

[slim girder]

Dredgen yor had a ghost but he sent him away

I'd imagine it might be the same here.
Has a ghost but they're just not there anymore

[hard sigil]

and cyrell did the same thing too

if bael is cyrell then the ghosts are unpartnered

unless he started hunting guardians when he decided to become a Dredgen I guess

[slim girder]

Still yet to see but this dredgen looks like he was one of drifters old crewmates with a big chip on his shoulder so I don't believe it's Cyrell who mostly likely has never even met drifter

He talks about how he's been waiting for this moment and even calls drifter by his old title of dredgen Hope

[hard sigil]

and the "the drifter belongs with us" line

[slim girder]

Something I noticed about nightfall station is that it's not one ship with a weapon on it it's like a big ship with the "core" and then other ships in a formation are needed to actually fire it.

[clear belfry]

Riven’s last wish was the 15th wish right, and then when we discovered it and put it in on the wish wall we didn’t know what it did, but then ultimately that’s what let us get into the traveler right

[slim girder]

Mara knew what the wish was because she'd been using that walls special language to make wishes with riven to build the whole dreaming city

All we knew about the wish at the time was riven saying "this one you shall cherish"

Riven knew what we were asking when that wish was invoked. Given the language of the wall it couldn't have been anything different

[clear belfry]

So I guess she didn’t tell us for spoiler purposes

[clear belfry]

Wdym

[slim girder]

Again the wall has its own language of sorts.
Like if you look at the wall all you'll see is fish, bird, dragon, snake

But those symbols mean something

Mara and riven know this language and it's used so that riven can't twist wishes as easily

[hard sigil]

mara designed the language of the wall to have as little room for interpretation as possible (and therefore as little wiggle room for riven to twist it as possible)

but Riven didn't twist the 15th wish at all, because she knew it would be her last, and because it was of particular importance

so it wouldn't have mattered if we used the wall or not

[slim girder]

All she wanted was her brood safe

So instead of twisting the wish she just gave a condition to granting it

[river surge]

Those ghosts can any time explode and kill him btw

(coping)

[warm zephyr]

why does the nine call us the wepon are we stronger than we realise or are they referring to all gaurdians?

[slim girder]

The nine don't know our language and so communicate in words that vaguely mean what they're trying to say.
Like Lodi is embassador, ikora is commander and we are weapon

This is also why they need emissaries like Lodi and Orin to communicate with us.
If you remember in EoF we interact with the nine without an emissary present and it's nothing but a bunch of radiowaves and noise.

[hard sigil]

we've also historically had more contact with the nine than most guardians

sure most of them visit Xûr every now and then but we specifically have interacted with them many times

to the point that they singled us out and invited us to kepler

[paper gorge]

Why did orin quit being the nines emissary

[slim girder]

She didn't want to be their mouthpiece. The nine took her life and her ghost from her without really much care for her as a person so even as emissary she was always sort of resisting

[paper gorge]

Thanks

[clear belfry]

What was the condition again

[slim girder]

Rescue her eggs from the vex and keep them safe

[clear belfry]

When did we do that

[slim girder]

Season of the wish. That was the whole plot of that season

[clear belfry]

Ah ok

Yea wasn’t playing in that one

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/riven-destiny-2-mara-sov-gif-13678579361005185134

She’s very pretty

[clear belfry]

Damn so the developers had the the whole story written out when they dropped forsaken

[slim girder]

Short summary
We insert the wish, riven then says no to granting it, mara questions this and riven says that if we find and secure the rest of her eggs hidden throughout her lair then she'll grant the wish

[ember storm]

“Whole” story being only the campaign where all that happens is you killing a bunch of scorn with bad character tropes

The end of the campaign unlocks the Dreaming City, everything there is still in the game

[clear belfry]

No I mean like they had written the ending of the saga by the time they dropped the last wish raid

Which is like 7/8 years in advance

[slim girder]

There was also a plotline involving rivens mate taranis who had granted his own wish to scatter the eggs until someone (us) could keep them safe.
Which is where the wish keeper bow comes from

[clear belfry]

Damn didn’t even know that

Destiny lore is sick

[slim girder]

That's a very big stretch. I'm not denying they had some idea of where the story would go but it definitely wasn't like they had it all figured out back then.

[ember storm]

Do you wanna hear about doghives

[clear belfry]

Well I mean that last wish thing was a big mystery I was interested in and at least it seems like they planned that plot point from the start

[ember storm]

It definitely wasn’t

They just left things open

[slim girder]

Well we knew it had something to do with savathun at the very least back then considering it was her who wished the curse on the dreaming city

[ember storm]

The last time Riven spoke to us she mentioned a “permanent bond” between us only to be completely radio silent for years on end

They just always leave things open to use later

[slim girder]

As for what the wish did that I believe was something they were going to leave and then think of a use for much later

[ember storm]

I’m 100% certain they just routinely take a look at lore databases to see what they can use

[clear belfry]

😂😂

[ember storm]

That’s the entire reason Eramis exists actually

A fanmade wiki misheard an ingame voiceline where Variks mentioned a “baroness Shipstealer”

Then fast forward a few years and suddenly bungie props up Eramis the Shipstealer like that’s supposed to mean something

I think the original name was Veeriks or something similar

[slim girder]

Reminds me of a D1 fallen voice line sounding like "the darkness" making people go crazy with theories

[ember storm]

Yeah matpat started that I think

He actually made his “the traveler is darkness” theory during taken king

Y’know, when we had the literal books of sorrow available

[slim girder]

Oh yeah I think he just brought it to light through his video

Sharp ghost flowers, dead thing, enemies despawning in blue light meaning they were being recalled by the black fleet or "darkness" as we knew it back then

Crazy time

[ember storm]

How do you think he’d approach the jade rabbit lore tab

[slim girder]

Prolly would just go into the idea of reincarnation or something

Thinking guardians are just reincarnations of people who died during or anytime before the collapse

[shrewd ravine]

Can someone explain what the Dredgen in renegades motivations are? I think I heard it was something about the political stuff with the last city or something

[warm zephyr]

so they refer to all normal guardians as wepon?

[fluid peak]

No. The Guardian (the player character) is set apart as The Weapon by the Nine

For what actual purpose isn't clear yet tmk

[warm zephyr]

so our gaurdian could be stronger than we know

[blazing wasp]

youre looking too deep into it

i think

[slow berry]

it's more like

we're a weapon

just like they have an emissary, and an ambassador

they've decided they have a particular use for us at some point in time and thats about all we know

[empty trout]

Do Lightbearers practice good hygiene, or do they abuse Solar Light to clean their bodies?

I'm asking because I'm planning to write a fanfic of The Young Wolf adjusting to civilian life.

Yes, this is important to me.

[empty trout]

Alternatively, do they get rezzed hy their Ghosts too often for that to matter?

[trim grotto]

Frankly, it'd depend on the Lightbearer in question. Shaxx uses to incinerate himself to fix a sore throat until his Ghost told him off, and Lord Saladin...
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/multimach-ccx

But many Guardians do live in the City - like humans, not like Salad creatures - such as Deputy Commander Sloane, who had an apartment.

In fewer words - depends on the person. There's no overarching answer.

[empty trout]

Okay, that makes sense.

Thanks.

[sweet locust]

I hope the actual story is around edge of fate level

Like I hope they aren’t trading writing quality for gameplay (the same way they did for edge of fate but opposite), don’t see why we can’t have both.

[shy remnant]

“Somehow Dredgen Yor returned”

[ember storm]

I love Aleks Le

[slim girder]

I won't say anything more but according to byf who was at the capture event he claimed that while the star wars vibes are definitely there the story is still very much something you would see from destiny

[sweet locust]

I’m glad, I want this expansion to give us starwars gear but with a destiny story.

[slim girder]

That's the big point. There will be a lot of star wars "stuff" in it but the story will still be very destiny so that it can stand on its own as a continuation of the fate sagam

[dim minnow]

even the soundtrack, while there are Star Wars elements in it from what we've heard so far, still sounds disticnctly Destiny

[slow berry]

i really liked what we heard from the vidoc

[dim minnow]

Breshi posted a preview for the soundtrack

[slow berry]

i think the end product will be a release that you could remove some of the more obvious aspects of the collaboration from and have something that would just be destiny

[slim girder]

Byf showed off the first mission. Things are looking really good so far and I'm excited to jump in next week

[dapper kayak]

would it be bad if they used the imperial march in one of the cutscenes?

[slow berry]

yes

it'd take me the fuck out

[ember storm]

Cabal stomp clears anyway

[shy remnant]

There will never be a bad destiny ost

[slim girder]

If i had to pick a star wars soundtrack to be in this expansion. It'd be dual of the fates when we face dredgen bael

[pseudo pebble]

Is it confirmed if whether or not Bael was a guardian

[slim girder]

Bael was a guardian. He wouldn't be a dredgen otherwise.

He also wields stasis

Obviously we don't know his backstory but he's definitely got a chip on his shoulder about the guardians position of power in the city and so along with the help of VI he's trying to destroy the traveler

[river surge]

Bael is that one cry baby who seeks domination over the others ultimately being defeated by the power of friendship

Literally what happend in Star Wars with the Sith

[pseudo pebble]

Oh okay

I was unsure cause there’s characters able to use the darkness without the light

such as Elsie and Eris

[slim girder]

Eris might not have light anymore but she is still a paracausal being capable of wielding that kind of power.

Drifter does as well

[river surge]

Also if Eris interacts with the Shard of the Traveler could her powers theoretically come back?

Cause we know that the Shard has a connection to the The Traveler and the light itself

Eris being a Lightbearer

She could theoretically remake her connection with Light powers using the shard

[hard sigil]

shed need a ghost for that

rip brya you were a real one

[river surge]

😭

At least she went into that hive magic

Also Resonance could he used for a future expansion as a 3rd darkness subclass

[sick yew]

Like Deer said, no ghost, no connection to the traveler

No light for Eris

[slim girder]

I know destiny is a rated T for teen game (M for mature audiences over here) but I mean surely we see dredgen bael have a crashout and chop a poor legionary in half with his praxic blade.
No blood since they cauterize wounds instantly

Kind of a big thing in any star wars kind of setting. Someone ends up impaled, hand or head cut off or chopped in half eventually

[ember storm]

Resonance seems more like basic darkness energy and not a real element

[slim girder]

It's under the same umbrella as siva.
More tech than actual power like stasis or strand

Almost every time we've interacted with it, it's to open locks, bring down shields, go through doors, deposit into mechanisms, etc

[heady gyro]

So far, is the f2p in destiny viable enough for a newcomer to understand the game's lore?

[slim girder]

You can understand what's going on in the lore but unfortunately with f2p you'll be missing out on experiencing that lore

[heady gyro]

Shadowkeep and beyond light campaign is free right?

[jagged badge]

Most the story is told through the expansions. That being said, Shadowkeep and Beyond Light are free, and next week, Edge of Fate will be free for a week

[slim girder]

I believe so yes.

[jagged badge]

Which would at least grant the ability to experience the setup for the current saga and its lore

[heady gyro]

Hmm shoukd work i think

If only all content from old expansions were free

Or seasonal stories were still playabke

[hard sigil]

there's always external resources

like byf or Ishtar or. this channel

[heady gyro]

I suppose, but no one starts out a lore junkie

But you have a point

[trim grotto]

or cooler byf

[slim girder]

There's also the archive

Seasonal story cutscenes and everything

[jagged badge]

Who’s that?

[slim girder]

VaatiVidya

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

I bet that guy has a funny voice prefaced by a particular Mercury soundtrack

[sweet locust]

Thoughts on this ranking of d2 expansion stories?

1. Final shape
2. Edge of fate
3. Witch queen
4. Forsaken
5. Red war/ vanilla d2
6. Shadowkeep
7. Lights fall

[dapper moss]

i mostly agree with this

i would swap red war and shadowkeep

[sweet locust]

Maybe if shadowkeep was a little longer yeah.

I hate that edge of fates gameplay was lacking cause the story really had a hold of my attention.

[frigid sparrow]

Beyond Light not mentioned

[dapper moss]

oh i had a feelilng something was missing

i would put it above shadowkeep but below forsaken

[sweet locust]

Lmao I forgot it

I would put it right under forsaken yes

[frigid sparrow]

BL is lowkey forsaken levels. This is not a positive

[sweet locust]

I felt like beyond lights story didn’t really move us much

[mortal wind]

Stasis?

[sweet locust]

Like I felt like it focused too much on eramis and her gang instead of focusing on what’s coming.

[sweet locust]

The rankings are for story

[mortal wind]

Stasis is like the core of beyond light story

Also what're you rankin' i wasn't lookin'

[sweet locust]

Scroll up for less than a second

[mortal wind]

i see

[dapper moss]

story

[frigid sparrow]

Our ability to wield darkness the same we do the light is a very understated development

[mortal wind]

i'd put witch queen number 2

[mortal wind]

Oh prismatic or in general?

[sweet locust]

It felt like the player were much more interested in pyramids and I feel like beyond light could’ve tackled that more.

[mortal wind]

I love prismatic feels like the natural progression of Guardians y'know

[sweet locust]

Which queen is pretty damn good but edge of fates reveals were fantastic

[mortal wind]

True but that would've taken away from House Salvation

[mortal wind]

Ah yknow what I still gotta finish that one actually

[frigid sparrow]

What?

No?

[mortal wind]

For development, guardians usin' darkness as a subclass is understated or using both together?

[frigid sparrow]

Using darkness as a subclass..

[mortal wind]

Idk if I'd call it understated tbh

It's kinda a major reocurring thing that we're poised to see even more discussion about in Renegades

[frigid sparrow]

And what kickstarted that was BL, in which the campaign doesn't really do a good job of showing us how big a deal this is

[mortal wind]

Beyond Light could've done with more active supporting cast true

[frigid sparrow]

Eramis was corrupted by the darkness, we've heard tell of dark guardians, and we haven't wielded darkness to any degree that we have with stasis (and later strand)

[mortal wind]

Also most of the controversy over "dark guardians" is in lore tabs

Some of which I've read and some I ain't

[frigid sparrow]

That is

The issue

[mortal wind]

Like shayura, aunor, idk any other off the top of my head

Oh dark future

That's one

[shy remnant]

I would put Witch queen above edge of fate and maybe lightfall above shadow keep because shadow keep is literally nothing

[frigid sparrow]

Shayura hunted them, she wasn't a dark guardian herself

[mortal wind]

Shadow keep has pyramid innit

[frigid sparrow]

Neither with Aunor

[mortal wind]

i wasn't naming guardians usin' darkness

Just stories related to how it was received

Can't really point at a lore book for shayura considering she's spread across trials equipment
and aunor is aunor lol

Which gonna be interesting to see her

[shy remnant]

an empty one

[mortal wind]

true depends on if the ranking is explicitly just story-telling or the campaign overall

Because Shadowkeep did introduce Nightmares and our first time hearing the witness
nightmares also acting to clarify Memory as one of Darkness' powers

But Lightfall campaign is more fun and interesting

[shy remnant]

idk nightmares got their exploration in a season rather than within it’s expansion really

[mortal wind]

Yeah but the introduction matters in my own personal opinion

[frigid sparrow]

Thus being payoff for shadowkeep

[mortal wind]

yeah payoff

[frigid sparrow]

Lightfall has yet to have any payoffs for anything

[mortal wind]

Hm

[shy remnant]

Are we counting seasons for expansion story rankings tho

[mortal wind]

no someone made a list and asked "who agrees"

[mortal wind]

The mcmuffin did lead into final shape tho tbf

And ultimately the witness' backstory

[shy remnant]

But what about the radial mast guys

[frigid sparrow]

Shadow legion? Non-existent
The veil? Still under explored.
Nimbus' growth and the future of the cloudstriders? Not been touched
The somewhat fascistic nature of the neomunan society and withholding citizens within the cloud ark? Never gonna be touched on again

And what's weird is that the shadow legion had some really nice setup within the episodes

[shy remnant]

Yeah neomuna is pretty inconsequential to the entirety of the story

[mortal wind]

I think neomuna is cool so too bad we don't really see them

[frigid sparrow]

They were being controlled by Yirix and Otzot, they had ulterior motives, then they just dip in heresy and got replaced by simulated red legion and the Barant Imperium

[mortal wind]

they're like a preservation of a bit of the golden age basically

[mortal wind]

Otzot from that one strike with the cabal in the vex data node?

[frigid sparrow]

Correct

[mortal wind]

I'm unfamiliar does that have to do with the maya sunderesh story line i didn't play the conductor season

[frigid sparrow]

In the post-campaign final shape mission, it's noted that kargen is a clone, and that Otzot was still trying to get into the insight terminus

[shy remnant]

Don’t worry they’ll be in renegades trust

[frigid sparrow]

It did also give us a tease that Maya was still blocking her

[mortal wind]

actually is conductor the original or one of the vex simulations of sunderesh?

[frigid sparrow]

Simulation

[mortal wind]

Actually wouldn't lakshmi just be the original

iirc

[frigid sparrow]

An offshoot

[mortal wind]

huh

[frigid sparrow]

She was Maya sundaresh without being Maya

Because neomuna didn't want to be found

[mortal wind]

isn't an Exo literally the transferred conciousness of someone though

[frigid sparrow]

So if you had the founder of neomuna on earth... They'd be found

[mortal wind]

i gotta read into some more of the maya sunderesh stuff i love the vex

Curious to see how they end up in trenchcoats and ponchos

[frigid sparrow]

It has to do with the veil

Maya basically created a semi-copy of herself with some of her traits

The veil otherwise does not interact well with exos

[mortal wind]

vex kinda remind me of the seaborn in that they take the most effective path to survival

[mortal wind]

Ohh ok i guess the darkness thingamabob would do some wacky things with consciousness

Including hosting the consciousness of a civilization in the network

[frigid sparrow]

We already got the answer to this, they're offshoots of the nessian schism who didn't agree with Maya decided to go off and do things on their own using their free will

[mortal wind]

nessian schism?

[frigid sparrow]

The name for Maya's vex

[mortal wind]

ah

[frigid sparrow]

Revealed in a Twitter post

[mortal wind]

And she controls them through the echo

are echos explained or are they vague mcguffins

[frigid sparrow]

But yeah, the funny thing about the new vex is that while them immediately starting to gamble is funny, it also makes a lot of sense

[mortal wind]

Sense how lol

[frigid sparrow]

The vex are obsessed with knowing probabilities; gambling, cards specifically, are all about chance

[mortal wind]

Lol gambling robots when you say it that way makes sense

[frigid sparrow]

You can barely commit to a specific probability outside of what's presented to you

[mortal wind]

I wonder if they'll decide creating personalities is beneficial

Are they neutral or friendly actually?

does twitter mention

[frigid sparrow]

They're crime lords

[mortal wind]

well we're friendly ish with a crime lord or two

[frigid sparrow]

Spoilers for Renegades from gameplay we've seen ||we fight them||

[mortal wind]

ah

[frigid sparrow]

They're memories of notable figures the darkness "remembers"

[mortal wind]

one of these days we'll get whatever the Darkness aligned vex are called but on our sides

[frigid sparrow]

And with that, their abilities are also tied

[mortal wind]

Like there's gotta be a vex mind that eventually calculates that following the guys who defy all the odds and Fate itself might be the key to Winning

[frigid sparrow]

The echo of command, imprinted with Te'Qal of the Qugu race (slaughtered by the hive) commands people due to Te'Qal being a commander in his time
The echo of Riis, imprinted with ALL-BUT-CONFIRMED the memory of Chelchis, Kell of Stone, has the ability to reverse polarity between light and dark. This meshes with the eliksni's ether intake and it's ties to the light, and how it can be corrupted by dark
The Echo of Navigation, imprinted with the memory of Oryx, Almost-The-Taken-King, is from the slaying of Akka. We presume it has the ability to take, and has the most free will of the echoes likely due to Oryx being tied to darkness so intrinsically, but we don't see too much of what it can actually do.

[mortal wind]

Oh cool what happened to oryx and elksni ones?

Bein' able to pick up a thing to take sounds pretty strong

[frigid sparrow]

we destroyed it for that reason

[mortal wind]

darn no guardian taking

[frigid sparrow]

as for the Echo of Riis, it's with Eramis, as she wanted to go out and rebuild Riis

[mortal wind]

oh she dipped to riis i forgot

i didn't know ether was tied to the light though?

[frigid sparrow]

it's how the eliksni are able to be corrupted into scorn

[mortal wind]

I thought that was because ahamkara wish magic

[frigid sparrow]

yesn't

fikrul's turn was, but the corruption of any other eliksni is due to darkness rituals

it's also how we could reverse the polarity of his ether and kill him

[mortal wind]

sweet thanks for the lore

[ember storm]

Joke so good we killed lore chat gg

[slim girder]

Jaren ward is in destiny rising
Would be a real shame if dredgen yor also got added to the game.

[summer depot]

Do we know what the crystals in the praxic blades are yet? Im a huge star wars fan and am curious about this little piece of lore

[slim girder]

Not yet no.

Information on the lore of the praxic blade is still being kept under wraps.

Actually.

On that topic. What crystal does the dark saber use?

Is it even a crystal?

[fluid peak]

The vidoc said they were dark matter related I think

[ember storm]

The real graviton lance

[slow berry]

bruh

as playable or like

bc bozo does not get to rez

[slim girder]

As a playable.

[slow berry]

another netease lore moment

[slim girder]

He's a bounty hunter with a deep betrayal in his past so works alone according to the trailer

He's not even holding the last word just what looks like a round robin and a dire promise

[dim minnow]

you're thinking of Shin Malphur

Jaren was a regular Guardian

[slow berry]

oh wait yeah

i got my ass flipped around

[sweet locust]

Would’ve been cool if they were solid batteries we made out of our paracausal powers

Since we’ve been making weapons out of light and darkness within our subclasses for years now.

[slow berry]

So why did Riven fulfill Crow's wish to bring back Cayde?

It doesn't even seem like she was taking a bite out of him, was it just a one-last-thing type of thing?

[ember storm]

Basically just one more for the road

I think she had a soft spot for him considering what the two did together

[shy remnant]

They’re cayde killing buddies

[steady socket]

is cayde 6 actually strong in lore

[jagged badge]

I mean, yeah, sure

He’s not the pinnacle of power or skill in a Guardian, but he’s not a New Light either

He’s been around, and to be Vanguard he has to be at least halfway competent

[steady socket]

crazy how we the guardian came out of nowhere and somehow immediately got on the same level as them

[shy remnant]

I imagine cayde to be a little bit above the average guardian

Definitely the weakest vanguard

Hunters aren’t all about shooting black holes and becoming missiles though

Probably why there’s no definitive “strongest hunter”

[jagged badge]

Yeah there are Hunters who have made names for themselves through legends and stories, like Shin Malphur, but not really any who are particularly noted for documented feats of strength or experience like Saint and Osiris for example

[dim minnow]

Ana did fire two Golden Gun shots that traveled for light years so there is that

[shy remnant]

Ana is strong but she’s not prime Osiris or saint 14 strong where there’s no question who’s the strongest of her class

[hard sigil]

ana has also left holes with her golden gun that are still burning

[shy remnant]

Didn’t Shaw Han create wells with his golden gun

Actually insane feat there

[queen walrus]

Why does everyone ™ have to be bald or bald in shape? Aunor looks weird.

[shy remnant]

most important lore question

[trim grotto]

Well, in a modern context, he just applied Radiant to the Frames.

Just with his Golden Gun instead of an Acrobat's Dodge or what have you

[shy remnant]

Are you you trying to tell me Shaw Han isn’t the strongest hunter in existence

[trim grotto]

CaAaAaAaSsss!
MaEvEeEeE!!!!

[shy remnant]

He uhh he completed last wish bro look at his legs

[trim grotto]

just like how he literally actually bought his YAS from a market stall in the Last City hunted an Ahamkara for his pauldron yeah

[shy remnant]

unintentionally wiped his fireteam before even meeting them

[trim grotto]

Yeah. Shaw's got a good feeling about this one.

[shy remnant]

[trim grotto]

best quote in all of the lore of destiny

[shy remnant]

cinema

[frigid sparrow]

It's just there being minimal feats for many hunter characters that we actually get to see or hear

Like has ana ever been genuinely shown in a combat scenario

We haven't heard from shin since the last word quest

And efrideet, another competitor for "strongest known hunter," is a fucking pacifist now

[slim girder]

Start of warmind she shot a knight in the back. Season of worthy she fought a bunch of psions aboard a cabal ship

[frigid sparrow]

Like the best feats we have for them is Ana's stargazing goldy shots and efrideet's mountain-shaking (maybe also cracking I can't remember) saladin-slam

[frigid sparrow]

What the actual fuck was zavala doing here

Bro cannot aim for his life how did we decide on him as our titan vanguard

[slim girder]

To flex on that one psion with his shoulder guard

[shy remnant]

Zavala is an aura farmer

[frigid sparrow]

Incredible aura loss missing some legionaries in a tight corridor with an auto rifle

[low gyro]

When you think about it, isnt this kind of how we guardians get our exotics now? Or is the cryptarch engrams some sort of non canon mechanic?

[slim girder]

Engrams are canon. But yeah this is pretty much how we get our exotics

Shiro wears lucky raspberry but somehow we can get it

[dim minnow]

some random warlock had Felwinter's helm and lost it because of a Guardian Games bet

turns out existential dread does not matter to Titans

[slim girder]

I'm a firm believer that ikora wore the obsidian mind helm from D1

[frigid sparrow]

Exotics in general are just sorta weird

There's ones within the lore that make sense to have multiple versions of (rat king, thorn, gjally), some are noted for having multiple of them via the qua nilus II lore tab (sweet business, two-tailed fox, telesto), and then there's ones like wish-keeper and xenophage that should theoretically be fully unique

A lot of exotic armor is also created by certain characters, and their manufacturing ability is weird since we don't really get exotic armor quests outside of the class items

Plus it's even less likely to have lore about it, see Mask of Fealty

[sick yew]

Exotics in Destiny are generally in one of two categories
Unique as in one of a kind or special in some other way due to some inherent design or such

Xenophage is a perfect example of the former, its a very special gun that only exist once because its litteraly got the bug bro in it
While something such as Suros Regime falls perfectly into the latter category, they were semi mass produced but the gun is inherently special due to its ramp up thingy

And armor is pretty similar with the exception that some exotic armor is really just a fashion thing with no reason for it to offer any benefits
Like theres no reason that if I wear a Helmet that looks like Saint's my Ward of Dawn gets cooler

[hard sigil]

there's also things like Thorn which are just replicas

engrams are data; data can be copied

[slim girder]

Engram is the 5th state of matter in the lore when talking about the golden age

We figured out how to digitise and reprogram matter which is also where glimmer comes from

We use glimmer as money but also as fuel

[hard sigil]

honestly if we had more time, we might've ended up with our own vexnet without ANY influence of the vex

[slim girder]

That's exactly what the cloudark is. Though unfortunately vex are a common pest they need to deal with from time to time

[hard sigil]

yes but that was developed using portions of the vexnet that were cordoned off and the veil

[slim girder]

With one incursion in particular resulting in them losing neomunas children

[frigid sparrow]

Here is a nice diagram made with completely arbitrary "rules" regarding exotic weapons

[sick yew]

Bastion you gotta explain

Unless we decide to let people copy the design it is a unique weapon through and through

Shits literally from a different timeline all together

And the exotic Glaives are debatable too

Rest looks pretty good in the first tier besides maybe Barrow-Dyad which is like a living organism iirc?

[slim girder]

I don't see necrochasm

[sick yew]

Sleeper Simulant should absolutely be moved up a tier because apart from being a Seraph design we literally see big versions of it inside the Warsats so we know it has been mass produced

[slim girder]

Which wouldn't be able to be copied because it's made from the crux of crota

[sick yew]

Ace of Spades also needs to be at the very top I believe
We have blue weapons that are the same model so Cayde's version is likely just a modified version

Also Microcosm seems a lot more special tho we dont have lore on its workings so it could go either way

And what made you put Ticuus in the near impossible tier?

Last Word can also be moved up one spot, while it has legendary status it really is just a normal ass gun

Oh yeah whats the funny poison smg doing at the top? Its like a weapon of sorrow no?

[slim girder]

It's because it can be made in the enclave

A place that isn't so much about having actual parts

[sick yew]

I dont think craftable weapons are inherently canonically craftable right?

[frigid sparrow]

What the fuck you're right

[little relic]

Wait is Trinity Ghoul craftable?

[frigid sparrow]

They're noted as being memories

[slim girder]

It's more like using the darkness link to memory to forge a weapon

[sick yew]

Hm

Idk it always seemed a bit more special to me but who knows

[sick yew]

Not ingame but it isnt like that special

[frigid sparrow]

The glaives are noted as "an echo of an ancient weapon"

[sick yew]

Do we know if anyone besides us can even craft shit at the enclave?

[little relic]

[frigid sparrow]

The means in which it was created was very specific and dangerous to repeat with the time-arrows stuff

[sick yew]

We know that?

[hard sigil]

yeah ticcuu did... something. to create it

the ritual ended with him Always Having Arrows In His Head

[frigid sparrow]

To the point where even if we know how it's created, I don't think any psions would be willing to

[sick yew]

Oh shit

I never knew it had much lore to it ngl

[slim girder]

Ticcus is an interesting lore piece

[frigid sparrow]

Ticuu's mind emptied itself, dissipating across the pitch and froth of what was to be.

Time was an empty wheel around him. His song held it, and the joining pinned it in place. Three points of harmony between the will and the physical.

His fist rose. Three shafts pierced his Y-shaped pupil. They had always been there. Three points, pushed through forever.

[hard sigil]

my interpretation of it is that he psychically connected with himself across all time

It was the third day of the dry joining. Ticuu's voice was rasped raw, but still he clutched the Bow to his chest and held it placid in his mind. Ticuu melded his thoughts with the null. A bastardized metaconcert, one voice in the expanse-a temporal harmony of one. Three arrows, hissing faintly with Solar power, bristled in his fist. Then, an echo: a rusty whine of horsehair on frayed wire. Ticuu plucked the bowstring. Spots of blood appeared on the floor. He plucked again, filling the air with oppressive vibration. Blood welled from his fingers and dripped to match the pattern at his feet.
mostly because of the fourth sentence

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah I couldn't remember this off the top of my head but it was the first one up so I was like "ehh what the heck"

[hard sigil]

I also like ticcuu's because it has in universe infinite ammo

the arrows are just always there

[frigid sparrow]

Pretty much everything up top is something that we have explicit knowledge of it being mass created or we know a majority of the process in creating it

Like, heartshadow is theoretically a unique ritual weapon, but the lore tab actually details the material it's made of and how it's forged

Lorentz driver's flavor text notes that it's one of many tests, crux/lomar are behind truth/gjally/dragons breath, the guy who made wardcliff got out alive, and stuff like acrius/queenbreaker/buried bloodline are modified weapons from existing factions, etc

[trim grotto]

Chappy is a replica, for what it's worth. Amanda gave the specs to Tex Mechanica for recreation.

Ace could definitely be replicated, too. Banshee was the one who made it in the first place.

[frigid sparrow]

Also when I was checking certain weapons lore,

What the fuck Rathil can speak???

[slim girder]

Yes

[calm lantern]

did we ever find out what was corrupting the fallen in vespers host?

[hard sigil]

The Corrupted Puppeteer was

it's an AI built by Clovis that was intended to integrate into a vex mind and act as a "control panel" so he could reprogram and have essentially a spy in the vexnet

it was contained within Vesper Station until debris from the Morning Star (the station visited and blown up in Deep Stone Crypt), including Atraks-1's body, impacted and severely damaged the station, facilitating it's escape and integration into the body

later, the crew of the ketch seen in the dungeon arrives, and experience a horror movie as they go missing one by one as the puppeteer kidnaps and takes control of their bodies too

it used them to build the anomaly, which was sending some kind of message out into space until we arrived and shut it off. It also happened to pick up Lodi's distress signal coming from Kepler

[slow berry]

Isn't Vex Mythoclast a one-of-a-kind weapon from the far future

With it being implied that the Vex made one just for the guardian

[hard sigil]

it's just a weapon from a very very distant timeline where the vex manufactured something for human hands

so there's theoretically more of them

[slow berry]

I mean if we go by timeline logic isnt every weapon replicable then

Except like strictly paracausal stuff

[sick yew]

By what logic?

tf is timeline logic

@slow berry elaborate

[slow berry]

I'm saying if you claim there'e theoretically more of a weapon in a different timeline thats true for basically every weappn

So we should probably focus on like, our timeline

[sick yew]

A identical gun from a seperate timeline isnt a replica tho

Theyre both the original in their respective timeline

Suros Regime is a mass produced weapon, multiple of it can and has been done
Lumina on the other hand is the result of purifying an already one of a kind gun

[mortal wind]

Lumina is pretty awesome

[slim girder]

I do wish bungie would give us more weapons of hope as they're called.

The opposite to the weapons of sorrow

Like we had a perfect setup for a split path story with the rose becoming either thorn through darkness or lumina through light.

[frigid sparrow]

Joxer said he had a vex mythoclast

"I miss my Mythoclast," Joxer said. Drifter could hear the frown in his voice.

"Yeah, you had a Mythoclast! And still the Cabal took the Tower. The Light failed you. Failed me, too."

The way Redrix says "a" mythoclast implies that at least within our present time stream, there are multiple copies of the gun because of vex timey wimey shenanigans

[dim minnow]

The Praxic Blade is described as one in its flavor text

[hard sigil]

Id call ergo sum one too I guess

[dim minnow]

Ehh

[slim girder]

I could see that considering dredgen bael a dredgen is using presumably a corrupted praxic blade

[mortal wind]

Yknow they probably oughta rename The Last City one of these days

[trim grotto]

The full title is The Last Safe City of Earth.

So, for now, it's quite apt.

[mortal wind]

ah fair

[shy remnant]

lol is neomuna still technically under siege

Well actually vex stuff so not safe

[trim grotto]

They've been dealing with Vex stuff for centuries. Literally the entire existence of Neomuna. So, that's not exactly new.

As for the Cabal... As far as I know, yes?

[slow berry]

it's also still the last city

i aint counting neomuna's sad ass that's like a small town

[shy remnant]

Neomunians trapped eternally in digital form (we will never see what they look like)

[jagged badge]

Neomuna’s got way more to the city that we don’t see, it’s pretty big

[mortal wind]

aeonians > neomuna

technopriests with a unique language and worked together with aliens first

[unreal kestrel]

Did lightfall get bad reviews for narrative reasons?
I have several reservations about watching myself aim at my own ghost with an AR I dont use and seeing the vanguard go "wElP hE oPeNeD tHe TrAvElEr I gUeSs wE'rE sCrEwEd"

[dim minnow]

when it came to gameplay, LF was solid

[unreal kestrel]

I did not actually read the reviews for spoiler reasons but it says very negative on steam

[mortal wind]

Oh yeah for action-movie campaign was fun

[dim minnow]

the narrative wasn't the worst, it just so happened to have a mid narrative at the worst point

[mortal wind]

Grappling through neon city, cool missions

Narrative is the bad review reason fo sho

[dim minnow]

the AR we are holding in that cutcene is Khvostov, the very first weapon we get in D1

[unreal kestrel]

I had trouble "grapplng moving objects" because the grappler skipped past every thresher.
I recognized as my first weapon I forgot the name. Shouldnt it have a broken sight?

[mortal wind]

eh its seeable enough sight

[unreal kestrel]

True. Gonna complete my subclass, too bad its only one super like stasis.

[mortal wind]

I mean would've been nice to have the work done for adaptin' to the gun we're using from third person perspective instead of the sight perspective

trust stasis and strand and red will have 2 supers in destiny 3

[unreal kestrel]

I expect both red and D3 to be paid, so I'll be holding off till I know its worth it.
Imma head out and collect all the strand shtuffs.

[mortal wind]

who's speakin' in the echoes personal logs, AS?

oh nvm is it the conductor i think

[unreal kestrel]

What is the significance of "Nezarec"?

The witness' home? A person?

The witness' name maybe?

[frigid sparrow]

you mean the "Final God of Pain," raid boss of Root of Nightmares, endower of the curse of Nezarec upon those who would use his corpse for power, he who kept his pyramid ship within the moon and brought upon a plague of nightmares, and the main head who fronted the beginning of the collapse? oh he's just a guy is all

[unreal kestrel]

Holy hell

[frigid sparrow]

Also he's one of the most godlike characters known to us

[shy remnant]

his raid was easy as hell tho

[frigid sparrow]

In the sort of Greek sense as the representative "Final God of Pain" or "Nightmare God"

[shy remnant]

Nezarac kind of a fraud who got duped by savathun but he cool though

[frigid sparrow]

Compared to someone like Rhulk who can be considered godlike because he's just super fucking strong

[frigid sparrow]

I mean it's not like getting duped by the literal hive god of trickery is that bad of an anti-feat

[shy remnant]

Yeah I’m just joking but I feel like Ron did him kind of dirty

[frigid sparrow]

Oh it absolutely did

[shy remnant]

Another lightfall victim

and season of the plunder too

[frigid sparrow]

Okay he was literally dead in plunder how's that his fault

[shy remnant]

I just think nezetea is funny

[frigid sparrow]

It's nezcafé you fucking hack

Smh my head

[shy remnant]

My fault didn’t know the nezenectar was this serious

[frigid sparrow]

Too bad we're nightmare farming you now

[shy remnant]

[trim grotto]

Yes, people had issues with the campaign not ever explaining what the Veil was - this came some time later in post-campaign missions - as well as issues with Rohan having no character time and a not-insignificant amount of the campaign being more about Strand than the actual campaign story.

Mostly the Veil thing.

A. We must stop the Witness from getting the Veil!
B. Why?
A. Go, go! Get to the Veil!
B. But why? What is it?
A. Goooo!

[sick yew]

They truly had no time to explain why they have no time to explain

[cloud glacier]

why can’t there be another god of pain after Nezarec

[cloud glacier]

they had more time to kill Rohan because we didn’t have a perspective shift in time

like, seriously, Rohan did not die for us to have a perspective change on what Strand was

[ember storm]

cause he's not gone

[polar brook]

why is drifter old now?

[ember storm]

He bought the DLC that makes you old

[paper gorge]

Who is VI?

[ember storm]

A Nine member if I had to guess

[stable skiff]

did I miss something, why is drifter older now?

[ember storm]

i heard it was part of EoF's story

so

didnt play it myself

[stable skiff]

same

[paper gorge]

I think when he tossed that derelict thing into 3 , cause him start aging I think

[stable skiff]

thanks

[paper gorge]

Don't know why thought

[stable skiff]

he went to The Singularity That Makes You Old

[paper gorge]

I need to rewatch the cutscene

[ember storm]

he was also shown transforming ages in the Heresy epilogue cutscene

[vagrant bridge]

Lightfall was just Payday 2
"Guys, the X, go get it"

[hazy veldt]

what could they possibly use those bottles for

also they've been shown in trailers hence its not a spoiler

[vagrant bridge]

To admire

[sick yew]

Maybe they just ingest the Ether drink

Aka dump it into the Radiolaria somehow

I doubt it'd have much of an effect considering how aggressive Radiolaria simply dissolves everything but ey

They are dripped the hell out so maybe they just act like they can drink stuff for fun

[hazy veldt]

vex must have an equivalent of drunk driving

at least now they have to

[slim girder]

If these vex are independent.
Must suck to be a cyclops then. Can't even walk anywhere

[queen swallow]

Gains sentience:
Can't move:
Refuses to elaborate:
Blows up:

[slim girder]

Can't even defend themselves. Either they land that first blast or a guardian is just going to hit them with a rocket.

[hidden pebble]

how does being resurrected by a ghost work out?

wondering on drifter being old

[hazy veldt]

If blue is his actual ghost him being old makes no sense because guardians don’t age

Only those bereft of light do

Also it’s kinda early for this and I passed like 70% of campaign but bael has a surprisingly weak lore

Like it’s so bad he makes me appreciate maya

Hope it will change I got 2 massive missions ahead of me anyways

[vagrant bridge]

Did you not see the end cutscene of EOF lmfao

Also bro #1445139275044622337

[hard sigil]

he got aged by proximity to III and the singularity

[hidden pebble]

no just looking for answers to see if dying could de-age him

[hard sigil]

ehh probably not

rezzing takes you back to where you were before you died. don't think it could send you back to a previous state of being

can't make you a child or anything

[frank barn]

Whats the first expansion in the light and dark saga?

[mortal wind]

Uh

[mortal wind]

the dark below

[queen swallow]

Since it's split across two games, D1 is The Dark Below, D2 is Curse of Osiris

[frank barn]

oh

[steady stream]

Hey ya'll, I've been out of the loop for more than a year now and I just saw one of the cutscenes and surprised to see the drifter this old, is this really the drifter?

If so why is he so old?

[shy remnant]

Damn people must really be coming back if there’s this many people asking about drifter today

[hard sigil]

yeah he got too close to a black hole

[slow berry]

he died in heresy

was brought back old

[tropic sorrel]

He was "touched" by the singularity and make him look like that

Who are the Dredgen?

[hard sigil]

cult that formed after the death of Dredgen Yor, the original wielder of Thorn. technically it was a secret operation by Shin Malphur to covertly coerce and keep lightbearers who were interested in wielding darkness in check

[tropic sorrel]

And Dredgen is sort of a tittle too, right?

"Dredgen Baal"

[hard sigil]

yes, they give themselves code names

it makes sense for them to be sith stand-ins it's pretty much the same thing as Darth in concept

Drifter was known as Dredgen Hope

[tropic sorrel]

Make sense now lmao

[slim girder]

Just finished the campaign. 10/10 and can't wait until i can talk about the details here

[river surge]

I have so many questions

[slim girder]

One cutscene in particular involving my fav exotic just made me actually jump out of my seat in excitement.

My lore brain just went crazy seeing that happen.

[forest oar]

Is there any reason for my ghost is not talking a lot in this one?

[hard sigil]

Nathan was busy

[forest oar]

I see, I thought my ghost gone mute for lore reasons

[queen swallow]

There’ll be some ingame explanation but the real reason is just the va being preoccupied or something

[hard sigil]

had to make season 5 billion of the rookie

[river surge]

We yes WE

are so back

the lore is insane

I just read the books

And we might have gotten a confirmation abt someone

[worldly river]

God I love Lodi, this poor boy is just so in over his head but he's doing his best, and frankyl he does an incredible job keeping it together, but he's clearly just so understandably overwhelmed

[slim girder]

He's better since EoF at least. More at peace as an emissary it looks like. Though he is still a 50s Chicago man so understandably it's going to take a while for him to fully adjust to the new world/system.

[pale parcel]

what was the purpose of versper station again?

[dim minnow]

Clovis used it to run experiments he wanted no one to know about. Which is why he planned to crash the station at some point along with neutering the station's ai

[pale parcel]

ou

ntoed :3

[mortal wind]

Clovis has two space stations designed to crash huh

[hard sigil]

well to be fair the morning star wasn't meant to crash

that's entirely our fault

[mortal wind]

Isn't it a whole protocol to wreck europa

Nukes 'n all

wait which one is morning star

im thinkin of dsc

[hard sigil]

oh wait yeah

no you're right

morning star station is the one in dsc

Vesper Station is from Vespers (wow)

[eager trout]

Who is we???

[eager trout]

Every time we learn about a more hidden, even more secret facility Clovis had where he conducted even more secret experiments.

[dim minnow]

I don't think he intended to crash Morningstar

as in the nuclear descent protocol was more of a failsafe to protect the Deep Stone Crypt's secrets

meanwhile, he fully planned on crashing Vesper Station

[eager trout]

Has Maya/The Conductor always sounded so...old? I'm hearing her in EoF and she sounds older than I remember, though I only heard her like once

[hard sigil]

it's an older version of Maya

because this is the Maya who founded Neomuna

and not one of the vexnet copies

[eager trout]

Wait, what?

What happened to the Conductor then?

[slim girder]

Conductor and the maya who founded neomuna are the same person

[eager trout]

Yeah, but did the Conductor sound this old?

[hard sigil]

compared to what? she sounds the same as she did in echoes

[eager trout]

That's why I asked

I haven't heard her in Echoes

At least not in Spanish

[hard sigil]

I can only attest to her English voice acting

[river surge]

She sounds the same

[slim girder]

Still the same VA.

Maybe she's more angry recently given the story beats but it still the same VA

[river surge]

I wanna say it so bad but lets wait for the dungeon

I pray that this dungeon will confirm it

[trim grotto]

I can't speak on that both due to the spoiler effect rule currently active, and since I haven't played it yet, but Shin functionally retired years ago.

[deep pagoda]

Ah sorry should I delete that message then?

[trim grotto]

It would probably be in your best interests, lest a mod see it.

[deep pagoda]

Will do, thank you

[slim girder]

@trim grotto have you played through the campaign and stuff yet?

Like any of the campaign?

[trim grotto]

I'll get around to it soon haha

[slim girder]

My b.
My sleep schedule has been in the garbage recently

Hope you get to play soon. It's so good from a lore perspective

[trim grotto]

I'm glad to hear that considering the influence

[sick yew]

Dont even ask Mael for new shit atp

Bro took months to play EoF

[slim girder]

People can be doomers as per usual but it is genuinely a good expansion both in story and gameplay.

[river surge]

Yeah fr

This expansion revealed alot of cool stuff

And new villains as well

Better than Maya Sundaresh

[jagged badge]

About that

[sick yew]

[jagged badge]

Yeah, there’s obvious Star Wars parallels in the story/narrative, but it’s still very Destiny imo

[sick yew]

Some references are a bit more heavy handed than others, specifically the opening mission

But I do agree its still very Destiny

[eager trout]

Apparently most references are in the first mission

Which to me felt like Destiny with a Star Wars flavor

Especially the cutscenes

[calm granite]

@trim grotto is Bael just your evil twin lore-wise ?

Kinda like a mario wario situation thing

[slow berry]

She's an older woman, by all means

But yes, she's always sounded like that, even as Lakshmi-2

[ember storm]

i mean yeah

you can go back and listen to Lakshmi dialogue

the va is 73 years old

[cobalt sonnet]

why does drifter hate his ghost so much

[dim minnow]

From the moment he was first rezzed by her, he refused to listen to her

Then there was the Lord Dryden incident where she was spotted by a Warlord which led to a town Drifter was laying low in to get razed.

Some time later, they were on a Cabal Athenaeum world and she snapped and told Drifter to kill the Ghosts of his crew members and graft their parts onto her so they could escape, which is why she was unable to speak.

[eager trout]

Didn't the Ghosts die to the creature they found or am I misremembering?

Also, is Maya stupid? Why did she think it was a good idea to pull III into our dimension?

[river surge]

She had a tantrum

[frigid sparrow]

Some of them did, the rest were hiding away and drifter killed them

[river surge]

Maya is indeed stupid

[eager trout]

And can III even do what she was asking for?

[frigid sparrow]

Also yes and no, it's not like she knew that the IX couldn't exist in our reality

[frigid sparrow]

No, they can bring stuff forward, but not back

[river surge]

Nope

[frigid sparrow]

She wanted to bring humanity back to the golden age

[eager trout]

But surely she could have realized it if she thought long enough

[frigid sparrow]

Genuinely how is she supposed to know

We only know that the IX can't exist without form in the third dimension BECAUSE she brought III in

Our limited knowledge beforehand was just that they couldn't for whatever reason

[eager trout]

What does she even know about the Nine? "We" at least know they've been trying to get bodies

[ember storm]

nothing the Conductor does is supposed to be logical really

[river surge]

Poor III died as an experiment for us to know

[eager trout]

And how did III die the first time?

[frigid sparrow]

That they are extremely powerful

[frigid sparrow]

Maya

[ember storm]

as much as she likes denying it all she's driven by is personal self fulfillment

[eager trout]

So she just did the same thing twice?

[frigid sparrow]

The cutscene was showing us what happened to III

[eager trout]

And expected it to work?

[frigid sparrow]

No, Maya already had killed III

A month prior

[ember storm]

that was just like

visuals

[eager trout]

Then how did III die the second time?

[frigid sparrow]

We could only revive it temporarily

Maya states that her work was already done, she was just continuing to mess around on Kepler in the campus mission

The cutscene at the end is just a visual means of showing us as the audience what happened (maybe the characters too)

But because we didn't play enough Gambit III permadied

[eager trout]

If the haul is back that means we could potentially permanently revive III by playing Gambit a lot once they do the promised(?) Gambit overhaul

[queen swallow]

This is why they took Gambit off so that they could revamp it into something actually exciting to do just that

[river surge]

Can this channel be unlocked

[queen swallow]

?

[river surge]

For talking

Like the new content

[slow berry]

when the spoiler lockdown is lifted

until then, #1445139275044622337