📚lore-discussion

[hazy veldt]

yeah i called it veiling

[slim girder]

Thousands of lifeless bodies with their minds all melding into what would be the witness

[hazy veldt]

they kind of got rid of their bodies

yeah

i have to find it in salvations edge lore books but

there was this dialogue between 2 precursors

from different factions, by end of which the one who didnt support the leading one eventually joined them and became part of the witness

but the other one who he was talking to was away at the time

[slim girder]

There was definitely some discourse with the precursors when it came to the decision to become the witness.
Because again this wasn't as simple as just leaving your body. The witness is not just like another person, it is the need to enact the final shape personified so it does not have things such as fear, sadness or anything like that.

[vast kiln]

If Oryx had bat-like wings, Savathûn’s wings are moth-like…

Does Xivu have Wasp-like wings?

[river surge]

We know the star system and how it was called but in rest nothing

[ember storm]

Oryx’s wings also have moth patterns

They’re just torn

https://static0.polygonimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/chorus/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4132370/auto_downloads_ps4.0.jpg?w=1600&h=900&fit=crop

[slow berry]

the hive are moth-ish in general

[vast kiln]

Noted

[little relic]

Pretty sure they’re the same race as The Ghoul.

[slim girder]

https://tenor.com/view/donkey-kong-not-funny-didn't-laugh-gif-13926571174597217762

[frigid sparrow]

... huh, apparently an old dreg named weksis got referenced in revenant as a returning boss in the contest of elders. neat

[cursive sedge]

why does the big oryx we kill in kings fall dont look like that

only the small one ?

[hard sigil]

he has the torn wings in king's fall

[cursive sedge]

i know, but looks wise. They look different big and small

not just the wings

[hard sigil]

don't think there's a lore explanation on why he has white chitin in the remade raid

but originally it was the same colour

as you can see here

might be wrong though

[slim girder]

Well if you remember he did "take" himself after we beat him the first time before retreating to his throne world. This can explain why his appearance changed.
As for the remake raid there's not a really a lore explanation and it really boils down to he has just been given a new palette of colour for the current version of destiny

[cursive sedge]

so oryx is still alive?

when he "take" himself

[slim girder]

No. We killed him in his throne world which was a true death.
I'm just saying he took himself after our first fight with him.

[cursive sedge]

where was the throne world?

like was his true death on the raid or another mission

[slim girder]

In the dreadnaught. The whole ship IS his throne world.
His true death was in the raid.

But prior to that raid in the taken king campaign we fought and defeated him causing him to take himself and then retreat.

[cursive sedge]

its kinda lame that he dies, i think his character is really cool and could be used for some good story

its like it happened too fast, like in that ghosts of the deep dungeon the end should be like oh you failed to stop the ressurection and he is now ressurected and now he has light

[slim girder]

That's what heresy was about. A younger version of him had come back as one of the echoes.

Also he was livid when he found out that his new form had come from light in any way

[cursive sedge]

i was not around in heresy

[slim girder]

He despises the light and coming back from the dead is heresy to the sword logic

[hard sigil]

and he was very close to being ressurected in ghosts of the deep but we stopped that

[slim girder]

TLDR an echo which is a combination of a memory of the witness and the creation powers of light crashed into the dreadnaught.
We then discovered this echo was a memory of oryx but a much younger version of him who had no clue that he'd already been killed or anything like that.

But when he did find out he took a liking to us as that was his whole ideology in life generally that if he dies then he is not fit to exist as is the nature of the sword logic

[hard sigil]

(to be clear, this oryx, from his perspective, had just created the dreadnaught from Akka's corpse and inverted his throne over it)

[slim girder]

^^^^

[hard sigil]

so it's a VERY young, very brash oryx

[slim girder]

Again this is a much younger version. One who had only just crowned himself the taken king and made his dreadnaught

[hard sigil]

anyway he was around, it was nice to hear his voice again, then we blew him up

[slim girder]

Killed him a second time by the end of heresy and this seriously angered savathun.

[cursive sedge]

so we killed him again? in herezy?

heresy?

[hard sigil]

kinda

[hard sigil]

it wasn't actually oryx. it was just a memory given form

[cursive sedge]

wasnt heresy before eof?

[hard sigil]

yes

[cursive sedge]

what are these episodes exactly, they are not expansions so where are you really following up the story from?

[hard sigil]

but yeah it wasn't actually oryx. this is what it looked like. it was functionally just a weapon with his voice

[hard sigil]

they were an experimental rework of the seasonal model

just a longer season in 3 acts

[cursive sedge]

so this was the one thats talking with oryx voice

[hard sigil]

yeah

the Echo Of Navigation

[cursive sedge]

and then how did it end, did he die again

[hard sigil]

he spent pretty much the whole episode lamenting his existence as heresy and yelling at his sisters(xivu for being sentimental and missing him, savvy for the obvious reason of abandoning the sword logic and being raised by the light), and then at the end he decided he was gonna make a break for it because he could still be a weapon of the sword logic even if he was heretical to it (or something) and then we blew him up

[cursive sedge]

what is the sword logic?

[hard sigil]

the philosophy, religion, and paracausal system of the hive. Existence is the struggle to exist. Anything that can be destroyed deserves to be destroyed. By destroying your enemies, you prove to the universe that you are stronger than them, and so you gain strength.

it's a self-defining and self-reinforced system

[trim grotto]

ah dang i missed the lore

[hard sigil]

sorry mael

[cursive sedge]

arent you sad that oryx is dead

[hard sigil]

I never met the guy personally. started back in Splicer

and I prefer savathûn anyway

[trim grotto]

Well, he's been dead for ten full years now.

The Echo was just... well, to use a modern example, basically just a chatbot loaded with some old Oryx memories.

[hard sigil]

... yeah actually that's apt

[trim grotto]

Of course, there's some debate about at what point memories make a person, Destiny plays with that concept a lot with Lightbearer amnesia and Exo being copies, but yeah. Wasn't really him.

[hard sigil]

he wasn't even really the one opposing us it was the Lord Of Every Nothing and that Omen

in regards to the dire taken

[cursive sedge]

ive always been an oryx guy to be honest, sav is cool but oryx has more aura

ik he gone along time but still its like killing the joker from batman but wayyy soon yk

thats what i think about it

[slim girder]

Episodes followed the aftermath of the witnesses death. These "echoes" are a direct result of the battle with the witness, objects made from the memory of the witness and the light of the traveler. It was like an epilogue before going into the fate saga which is what we're starting now with edge of fate.

One of these echoes was the memory of oryx. Another is used by maya sundaresh to control the vex and the last one was used by the old scorn leader fikrul but is now in the hands of eramis who left the system with it to hopefully rebuild a new home with her house

[slow berry]

Specifically the version of oryx that the Echo had the memories of was a very fervent believe of the sword logic and the idea that those who are strong deserve to triumph over the weak. Over the span of the episode, he catches up to a few thousand million years of history and learns that Savathûn has all but abandoned the Sword Logic, Xivu Arath was willing to commit heresy to bring him back, and that even himself had gone against the Sword Logic by attempting to avenge Crota, his son. At some point, Eris traps him and he willingly stays for a bit as to not face Eris while she has to deal with Savathûn and Xivu Arath's attempts to steal him.

Eventually, at the end of the Episode, he breaks free, and realizes his own heresy in his continued existence.

"I do not yield. But, I have nowhere left to go.

Have you counted the stars, Guardian-Knife? Have you understood the spaces between them? I vowed once to understand. And I have not. And I do not. Every vow I have made is empty.

I have already failed. As my sisters have become heretics, so too, have I. Long ago, Oryx was killed. If I am still Oryx, then I am already dead. And if I am not Oryx, then I do not live. Aiat. That is enough.

At least the stars will remember the shape I gave them..."

The Echo of Navigation, with the memory of Oryx, allows itself to be destroyed at your hands, while the forces of Xivu Arath, Savathûn, and the Taken all attempt to stop you and take Oryx for themselves.

[slow berry]

At no point does the Echo actually oppose us, he's just like, oh fuck you're the one who killed me but i dont remember you, whats your deal

then like slightly offended that we dont want his fucked up beat up rusty brown 1970 ford pinto that he left in his will to whoever kills him and which has since been overran by all sorts of critters

[simple glen]

I am actually curious about this since I have been thinking about it for a while now, what were the backstories like for the other iron lords?? We know much about Salidan and Felwinter but not much on others like Timur or Radegast

[trim grotto]

Our information on the backstories of individual Iron Lords isn't actually that fleshed out.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/lord-radegast#lord-radegast
Radegast's story is best summed up in the old, original Grimoire card from Rise of Iron.

[simple glen]

I personally wish that the lore of other members of the lords or iron had more in depth details for their back stories

[slim girder]

The iron lords are an analogue to king Arthur. So you can draw some parallels as to the types of people who were the iron lords.

But as mael said we don't have too much on the other main members of the iron lords

[dim minnow]

Gheleon seems like a hardcore survivalist

likely had a rough start

[slim girder]

Timur is the mystical "necromancer" of the group it seems

[dim minnow]

like this guy tests bones to see how good they make armor in case he's in a pinch

[dim minnow]

I'm referring to Gheleon

[simple glen]

I’d see Skori as a close individual to the team, being someone who composed the iron song it make sense that she had a close relationship to the group

[little relic]

That’s interesting thought about the lords.
Here goes nothing, I personally think Bungie will expand on the others.
Except maybe for Timur.

Goes without saying I am also interested in their backstories.
How did they become who they are?
One person out there probably theorised their backstories to a scary degree.
Unless the pieces are already out there and no speculation is needed.
Laughing at the fact that maybe there’s probably references we’re missing.

[hard sigil]

subliminal ghoul messages

[simple glen]

I feel like they should really expand on people like skori and silimar, since they’re main ideas are still around with the old iron songs and the last city

[slim girder]

Sadly it's probably a thing of the past now. We destroyed Siva, helped Saladin put the iron lords at piece and then became an iron lord ourselves.
Not really much else that could go on except for us getting the wolfsbane axe.

Only place left for the iron lords is felwinter peak.

[languid panther]

I dont follow the lore too strictly but did the Vex ever rlly get a significant campaign? Cuz I feel like the Vex had plenty of potential as a species

[dim minnow]

D1 vanilla campaign and Curse of Osiris

those are the only ones with a Vex main villain

Black Garden's Heart and Panoptes

though the BGH isn't Vex itself, it's being used by them

[languid panther]

Cuz i remember hearing that the Vex can time travel, I feel like thats pretty significant

[dim minnow]

it's a little complicated

like, it seems they can't just go back in our own timeline

[languid panther]

Hmm ok. Ig i was just asking about the campaign cuz it feels like most of the time whenever the player encounters Vexes, theyre just mostly being utilized as lackeys

[dim minnow]

sadly yes

but it seems that they're actually stating to have their own agency

since the Choral Vex in Epic Desert Perpetual aren't working under Maya

[languid panther]

I hope we rlly do get some more vex campaigns

[blazing wasp]

Well they're kinda boring as villains

They're cool, but being without personality makes them poor villains

Renegades might see a change though.

[hard sigil]

the thing with the vex is that they time travel "sideways". they have access to other timelines, but cannot go back and forth within ours (exception being the vault of glass)

but yeah the fundamental flaw with the vex is that they're a faceless threat, and can't really be treated like villains

like their goal is opposed to ours but they don't really approach it with malice. they sorely needed someone like Maya, even if she's kind of a weak villain anyway

and now with individualistic vex communities forming with the distinct advantage of still having access to vex technology, we have the opportunity to have actual vex villains

or alternatively, I could see a larger story panning out like Sharp Cheddar, where we go against the network trying to capture and return free vex back to the system

[languid panther]

Yea i lowkey see that, cuz i see how it would feel like ur fighting a computer rather than an actual enemy

[frigid sparrow]

The closest thing we got to a vex personality prior to Maya was Quria, who

1. Was taken
2. Was being used by Savathûn.

However, Quria itself directly speaks to us, which is really weird considering that both taken and vex kinda don't fuckin do that, especially in the way Quria did

[hard sigil]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was just savathûn trying to confuse us

[frigid sparrow]

Potentially, but it's a question on if she was capable of doing so. Afaik osusris was only monitoring the guardians, and wouldn't have access to the splicing technology that'd allow for the bypass.

Additionally, "I have seen your grave" is a VERY specific threat, since the vex DO have our grave simulated

[hard sigil]

true

maybe quria like. learned to talk because trash talk has some effect with sword logic

idk that'd be funny

[frigid sparrow]

Ah, right

"It's a Vex I captured. Quria, Blade Transform. It made an attempt to puncture my throne. I thought you might enjoy studying it." Oryx pauses, digesting — through the bond of lineage he can feel Crota killing, worlds and worlds away, and it tastes like sweet fat. "Quria contains a Vex attempt to simulate me. It might generate others — you, perhaps, or Xivu Arath. I've left it some will of its own, so it can surprise you."

But Quria in general is also really weird and exceptional compared to taken/vex

[hard sigil]

yeah she's really a specific use case

guess they REALLY wanted to know what's up with the hive

[sick yew]

Unlike the Cabal and Eliksni the Hive are probably a bit more interesting to the Vex cause of idfk magic I guess

[hard sigil]

and paracausality

they're kinda the only other force other than guardians who had directly paracausal power

[sick yew]

The Eliksni are just kinda there, not much special to those from the Vex's "eyes"
And all the Cabal have I guess is Psion related but it seems mostly inferior to Vex prediction tech considering the Psions regularly try to use Vex stuff and not the other way around

[sick yew]

Hive magic aint paracausal inherently is it?

[hard sigil]

pretty sure it is

[sick yew]

@trim grotto You, lore man

Speak truth and only truth

Is Hive magic paracausal?

[hard sigil]

it's Anthem Anathema ain't it

same concept that the Ahamkara use

[sick yew]

Anthem died bro

[hard sigil]

like I'm sure the rituals and whatnot are just some weird science but Sword Logic is very much paracausal

[trim grotto]

yesn't

[sick yew]

Elaborate

[trim grotto]

the power is paracausal but they're harnessing an energy, so they're not inherently paracausal for using it until becoming Ascendant

[sick yew]

Hm I see

!feed @trim grotto

[dense pike]

feeding MaeIstronnar-3, Hunter Cryptarch 64 units of ether

[sick yew]

Take some food for your services

[trim grotto]

danke

[sick yew]

Immer gerne

[trim grotto]

back to dellhiving

[sick yew]

Godspeed Diver

[slim girder]

Adding to this. Hive magic definitely seems to be a much more straightforward "ritual" style of magic. It doesn't come from a paracausal entity like the traveler or black fleet but instead is brought about through incantations by beings such as the deathsingers or sacrificial acts like what xivu was playing to do if we had turned the warsats on her brood back in season of the seraph

Incantations, summoning circles, blood tithes, etc. A very cult type of magic

[hard sigil]

that's what I mean by it being anthem anathema

it's just pressing one's will unto reality to reshape it

the worms and tithing is very much darkness though

[ember storm]

Could be that the proto worms and ahamkara were related somehow

[dim minnow]

Truth to Power has alluded to this

[ember storm]

i'll always hold onto the mention of the garden's insects in unveiling but i can't be bothered to sort it out

[slow berry]

I sorta kinda like the idea of that being the ahamkara and the fact that they went from a non-reality to a reality has given them the idea that there is a larger reality

[blazing stream]

It'll never not be funny how Clovis saw the God of Life and Charity and said "Fuck you bitch." Then proceeded to make an AI designed to euthanize it if it got scared and fled.

[trim grotto]

The God of Life and Charity literally spoke to him in a dream and said "hey like maybe stop doing this" and he just went "nuh"

[blazing stream]

"I'm not addicted to Darkness or Vex milk, I can quit whenever I want to."

[trim grotto]

choccy vex milk

[little relic]

Yeah and The Ghoul like the gigachad they are saw the God of Life and Charity and was like “bye bye loser” and just left.

[trim grotto]

[blazing stream]

The Ghoul?

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/its-better-not-to-ask-dont-ask-mind-your-business-keep-quiet-dont-say-anything-gif-15562197

[blazing stream]

Post-Final Shape?

[little relic]

Yes.

[blazing stream]

Ah, I stopped after Final Shape cause the gameplay became meh with the seasons

[little relic]

Ahh fair enough. Makes sense why you don’t know The Ghoul.

Rip.

[trim grotto]

you're dedicated, i'll give you that

[blazing stream]

Destiny lore is fire when it's unhinged though.

[trim grotto]

||the ghoul doesn't exist and this guy's been forcing the joke for like a month||

[blazing stream]

Trinity Ghoul is real.

[little relic]

IT IS!!!

[blazing stream]

Greedy Ghoul is also real.

It's a conspiracy!

[little relic]

SO TRUE.

[blazing stream]

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-charlie-day-crazy-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-qanon-gif-23738584

[little relic]

Exactly you’re the one other person who also believes me.

Thank god. I thought I was going insane with The Ghoul.

[blazing stream]

Oh, no you're insane.

[lime vine]

You guys ever give your guardians lore?

[trim grotto]

Many people do. I largely don't, as I'm more interested in learning than creating.

[lime vine]

Interesting

I have a ton of it for my hunter and titan
Warlock…. Well..

[slim girder]

I do a lil bit. But I'm not writing my own full lore book or anything.

[blazing wasp]

I considered giving mine lore and just decided not to

id rather leave the blank slate blank

[slim girder]

My warlock always carries an ahamkara bone in his inventory and his thorn is a special thorn combining the travelers energy and the same material the pyramids are made from

That's basically it lol

[cloud glacier]

when were all the Veil Containment logs added to D2

[sick yew]

During the first season of the Lightfall year

Aka season of the Deep

[cloud glacier]

isn’t that the second one

since the first one is Defiance

[sick yew]

Oh yeah I completely forgot about Defiance lmfao

Then it was during that one

[cloud glacier]

tbf no one wants to remember Amanda’s death

[sick yew]

With how anticlimactic it was yeah

[cloud glacier]

was Stargazer the one who transported Lakshmi to Earth?

[sick yew]

I believe so yes

[sick yew]

I forget it more because I unfortunately kept falling asleep during the Seasonal Activity

As cool as it was conceptually they were just way too long

[cloud glacier]

how much even was added to Neomuna in Deep

[sick yew]

In Deep? Nothing

Besides additional context regarding what the Veil was

Because of that cutscene explaining the Witness' origin

[cloud glacier]

what did Chioma do after Maya’s death?

[sick yew]

I think she bailed into the Vex network aswell

How long after isnt known

[cloud glacier]

and then she was murdered in Echoes

[sick yew]

Yup

[cloud glacier]

well that’s just sad

[sick yew]

But a few Chiomas are still around

Maya didnt get all of them

[cloud glacier]

Bungie, it would have been really nice to have this lore about the Veil before Deep

[sick yew]

Again, it came with Defiance

[cloud glacier]

did Lightfall and Defiance release separately

[sick yew]

No

Or like a week later or some shit

You know how initial season drops go

They launch basically alongside with each other but the Veil Containment shit didnt come out straight away

There was a bit of time that left people rather confused

Most peoples biggest issue with Lightfall's story

[cloud glacier]

apparently the Veil is to Darkness what the Traveller is to Light

[sick yew]

The Veil was most likely part of the Traveler at some point thats how the theory goes

But the Traveler left it behind at some point and the precursors discovered it later on and tried to use it to give the life of the universe meaning since the Traveler wouldnt do so
Traveler said hell fucking nah and bailed the hell outta there, precursors got mad and decided to merge into what became the Witness and also build a lot of pyramid ships and from then the great chase was on

Traveler going around the universe creating life and Withess/Pyramids following behind

[cloud glacier]

ah

[lime vine]

My awoken hunter has a small LIVING Ahamkara with her💀
Trust me bro its safe

[sick yew]

Im calling Shaxx

[hard sigil]

you should probably get rid of that

if you say the wrong thing you could like. really mess up something

[sick yew]

Shaxx pest control

[lime vine]

His name is Covenant
And she’s managed to work out a “Forever Wish” he couldn’t refuse.

[hard sigil]

so she's starving the poor thing? maybe we don't need pest control maybe we need protective services

[sick yew]

I think Shaxx offers that too

[lime vine]

Not quite lol
Its a long story but lets say after a couple skulls, a couple broken wishes, some tragic turns and a good 6 years later, shes managed to get the Ahamkara to be “good” to the point he won’t immediately be killed

His wishes are very…. “Long”
You want a gun, you’ll find a gun, sooner or later, then you have to find the parts for it because its missing something, then you have to go on a week long journey to find those parts, and kill the fallen who stole them after you find them

Some give up, some succeed eventually, but the whole “trip” feeds him

Thats simplified a ton but still

[sick yew]

I would simply wish for more wishes personally but to each their own

[hard sigil]

oh I see so it's still feeding on the difference, it's just not a wholly malevolent difference

that's a good way of getting around that

[lime vine]

She wished him to be friends at first, naturally that wish failed miserably, he almost became a serious problem…. She kept his bones, came back and wished again, this time a vague wish for him to be “better” after giving him a clever if unintentional deal

He could have big wishes, grand feasts and a quick death, or a long wish, real freedom and constant slow feeding, he could grow big sure- and be hunted by a legion of eager guardians, ready to claim the title of Dragon Slayer, or he could stay with her, become her partner in one never ending wish. The partnership IS the Forever Wish, the twist? He will NEVER be truly “good” and she will never be rid of him, but he does get “better”

Plus she genuinely cares about him which is something not exactly common for a wish dragon. Her main goal is to prove guardians and wish dragons can coexist in some form

Sorry for the wall of text lol

The whole thing is also why he’s named Covenant

[slim girder]

Deep was the second season of lightfall.
Season of defiance was was the first.

[sick yew]

As evident by like literally the text bellow
Yes I am aware now

[slim girder]

I'm sorry I just woke up. My brain isn't fully turned on yet

[sick yew]

Happens to the best of us (its 3.15pm)

[lime vine]

Same here, its only 9am for me

[slim girder]

It's 12:49am over here in Australia rn. Friday has just started

[lime vine]

Do you guys think that lore is like…. “Realistic”
I wanted to make it work with the current lore we got for the dragons and not seem too, fanfictiony

[slim girder]

Nah. Destiny is a fantasy setting and we can literally summon lightning from our fingers or golden guns out of thin air

[lime vine]

Thats fair

[hard sigil]

and there's precedent for that kind of cooperation

it's actually a very similar story to Hefnd and Naeem

[jagged badge]

There’s an Exo in the Spire of the Watcher lore who has an implant that lets his Ghost control his body. I don’t think you have to worry about feeling fanfictiony tbh

[lime vine]

Oh ok lol

[lime vine]

Whoa I never actually heard of this one, that is quite the story

[slim girder]

The whole story of Warlords ruin is an interesting one

[hard sigil]

girl meets dragon, girl gets killed, dragon curses bloodline. you know. a classic. you see one you've seen it all

[lime vine]

Mine is more like girl meets dragon, revives dragon, kills dragon, revives dragon, befriends dragon

[quasi niche]

I am not sure who is talking in the new dungeon trailer, but he is talking to VI

[slim girder]

I'm going to assume that's the new dredgen as the info for the dungeon said we'd be hunting their acolytes

So VI has told this new dredgen to marshal this new force to destroy the light and they've also devoted themselves to the will of VI it seems. Doing whatever it shows them presumably through its ability to see the whole timeline

Why VI though. IV and V are still not present

[shrewd ravine]

This is a dumb question.. but what is nezarec?

[slim girder]

Nezarec is the final god of pain. The embodiment of fear and a figure who grows from nightmares and the pain of others, even manifesting through the people he inflicts pain on.

He was the one who led the black fleet assault when the witness came to earth causing the collapse.

[dapper moss]

if nezarec is the final god of pain who is the first god of pain

[dim minnow]

you know they never really elaborated on that

[frigid sparrow]

it operates on single child mechanics where he's the least favorite child but also the favorite child simultaneously

[hard sigil]

my interpretation is that there are other gods that cause pain, the hive gods and other powerful beings and the like, and nezzy is just egomaniacal enough to call himself the best and "final" of these beings

[arctic iron]

erm

whos talking in the dungeon trailer

idk if i missed somethin

[dim minnow]

seems to be either Dredgen Bael or one of his acolytes

that's my guess

though Darth Ghaul is a possibility

[hard sigil]

"I've marshalled a new Imperium"
implies that it's probably Bael

and the fact they're talking to VI (Saturn), who has become brainrotted with hive magic, sword logic and darkness due to the dreadnaught helps confirm that

[dim minnow]

oh wait Desert Perpetual weapons have lore tabs right

don't think I've read them

[arctic iron]

Darth Taniks

1 last ride

[frigid sparrow]

the ones introduced in the epic set yeah

base ones don't

[slim girder]

If dredgen bael is taking orders for VI then i wonder what did VI show him to make him submit pretty much his entire reason for living to it

Though if VI is messing around with hive magic then i guess having a dredgen doing its bidding fits

[arctic iron]

nvm it defo is Bael

lol

[hard sigil]

I wonder if the imperium is just VIs plan to get tithes and form a throne world (as heard in epochs and orbits)
NO WEAPON CAN KILL WHAT IS WOVEN INTO THE FABRIC OF EXISTENCE NO SHACKLE CAN HALT MY DIVERGENCE TO AN ASCENDANT ORBIT THIS I HAVE LEARNED FROM THAT WHICH GIVES RISE TO ITSELF
it clearly plans to, if nothing else

[dapper moss]

incoming guardian boss battle

[hard sigil]

hunting down the acolytes not bael themself

it'll probably just be a big cabal

[dim minnow]

I was originally thinming that IV was going to be the one behind the Barant Imperium

[hard sigil]

I think we'll be working with IV

makes sense considering they're an inner and that they seem to have a personal drive for vengeance

[dim minnow]

what I was thinkign was that IV was going on a war path which would have caused much more problems

and we're basically forced to intervene and help the outer orbits break the stalemate they have with the inner orbits

[hard sigil]

I think what may happen is either the cosmic incubator activates and creates a new member or IV kills VI

both outcomes break the stalemate

[dim minnow]

since the Outer Orbits pretty much orchestrated III's death

[hard sigil]

IV killing VI would fit with vengeance, and IV's remark that it doesn't care about rules anymore

[slim girder]

I think VI might be actually trying to silence the inner orbits and press that advantage they already have.

This nightfall station is presumably on mars but i do wonder if it's designed to destroy a planet at a distance like a death star or maybe because of it's name it instead is made to create a black hole and take a planet with it just like we had on kepler

A bit like the almighty but you build it on a planet before evacuating and let it activate

[dim minnow]

you know, I wonder if Bael is meant to be the anti-weapon

[slim girder]

Could be. His "violence" belongs to VI as he says so maybe that'll be directed at us if we meet them

[dim minnow]

since iirc VI and VII were the only ones to vote against instating us as the Weapon

[hard sigil]

.... six seven

how did they know

[slim girder]

Something to also note is what's V up to. They're in the middle

[dim minnow]

ok correction, it was V and VI who voted no to Weapon

[hard sigil]

aw man

[queen walrus]

It seems i cant go back and relisten to the dialogue that plays when you do the catalyst steps in heliostat. This is very frustrating

[slim girder]

Is there something you want to know?

[dim minnow]

Destiny Lore Vault coming in clutch

[queen walrus]

I wanted to record the clip about owl sector specifically and end it to my friends

I hate how you just cant do weird niche things like this in this game. Why cant we just hit the terminal buttons a second time to activate the lines?

[hard sigil]

https://youtu.be/htDiwqmyavA

6:00

[queen walrus]

Oh thank you this will help

[trim grotto]

You're in a discord of regular players. You're talking to an echo chamber of people who already know. This isn't warning new players.

You have wasted your own time twice, now.

[dim minnow]

this channel used to mean something man...

[frigid sparrow]

Seeing the bright white notification marking unread messages in the chat after no lore discussion only to realize it's a scam bot that got banned or messages like these

sadface

[grand jungle]

Why did shaxx kill felwinter?

[slim girder]

Because felwinter challenged him. And shaxx at the time wasn't letting anyone get to the people he was protecting whether they were warlord or iron lord

Felwinter struck first, missed and shaxx took his head off with his fist

[slow berry]

To be noted that Felwinter kept challenging Shaxx simply as an excuse to remain in his settlement because he believed he couldn't protect it from the upcoming snowstorms alone

So felwinter kept dying to him and challenging again

[river surge]

Based on what I have seen in that trailer and everything it ties up that VI might be the main villain of the saga

and it might be that Taken God

I mean its pretty obvious that all these hints regarding VI just simply all link together with it being The Lord of Every Nothing

(just saying)

[ember storm]

did i miss something

[trim grotto]

kid came in, spammed every channel in the server, blamed bungie because his microsoft account got banned and then bungie did too. or... something like that.

kinda already forgot it happened

[lime vine]

"I am [Covenant]. Of Great Journeys.
I am bonded.
I have a most peculiar one.
A [star-child] of light... Of [those] that hunted my kind.
And yet this [star-child] seems different.
she has given a new [bargain] one that I couldn't refuse.
a [Forever-Wish]..
how intriguing.."

-A character important to the lore of my guardian

[slow berry]

omg free mr beats money

[unkempt robin]

Hi guys, relatively new to the game and have a question on how Beyond Light kinda starts

From a new player perspective, why are we in Europa?
Who the hell is the exo-stranger, we seem familiar with them but that's never established? 🤷‍♂️

Why is there a pyramid floating above Europa?

[dim minnow]

ok, so for context, Beyond Light starts right after the end of Season of Arrivals

Season of Arrivals was when the Black Fleet arrived in Sol

[slow berry]

the exo stranger goes all the way back to destiny 1

like, release destiny 1

[sick yew]

Pyramids are here, planets gone, message from Variks taking us to Europa

[slow berry]

where we met and they didn't have time to explain why they didn't have time to explain what they were doing

[unkempt robin]

is the black fleet like active right now?

[dim minnow]

actually, we ended up on Europa on our own

[slow berry]

during beyond light, yes

[sick yew]

Not eversince Final Shape when we killed the witness

It was back in Beyond Light

[slow berry]

wtf spoilers for the new player

[dim minnow]

the disappearance of 4 destinations caused the Vanguard to send guardians out for answers

[unkempt robin]

nah i kinda am familiar rn lol

[sick yew]

huh?

Mf I just got here

[unkempt robin]

it's just im trying to piece the lore together haha, from the beginning

[dim minnow]

we just so happened to be sent to Europa since the Vanguard had recently lifted the travel ban there

[sick yew]

Hella convenient for Varkis to be doing his shit right as we approach

Lucky bro

[unkempt robin]

and this happened alongside some moons and planets like IO disappearing?

[dim minnow]

then, while on Europa, we intercept Variks' distress call

[sick yew]

Right after yes

[dim minnow]

the Traveler reformed itself

[sick yew]

Oh yeah right the traveler healed

Forgot that happened cause I wasnt there for the live event (it was at like 2am)

[unkempt robin]

the traveler healing and all, is referring to right at the end of the Red War campaign right?

[sick yew]

No

[dim minnow]

before the end of Arrivals, the Traveler had pieces of its shell orbiting itself because it sent out a huge surge of Light at the end of the Red War

[sick yew]

At the end of the Red War the traveler broke free and actually got damaged

[unkempt robin]

ok seems i need to look into arrivals lol

for the context

[sick yew]

It wasthen in a state where all its debris was just floating around it until the end of Arrivals

Traveler between the end of the Red War and before Beyond Light

Traveler at the beginning of Beyond Light

[unkempt robin]

oh ok 👀

is Eris Mourn also a character coming from Destiny 1?

[sick yew]

Yes

(Also its Eris Morn*)

[dim minnow]

all you really need to know is that the Pyramids showed up, Savathun started to show signs of betraying the Witness (keep in mind we didn't know the Witness even existed until Witch Queen), tensions start rising throughout Sol as a result of the Pyramids arrival, and they end up taking Mars, Mercury, Io, and Titan from us while the Traveler heals itself in order to get ready for the conflict between Light and Dark to start again

[slow berry]

dont we have a pinned post about what happens in seasons

[unkempt robin]

ill be sure to check that out lol

[dim minnow]

ah yes, the summaries I made

I forgot the TTK one though

[sick yew]

It do be like the top most pin

[unkempt robin]

Are the guardians aware of Savathun's schemes and shit?

[slow berry]

oh hey the d1 link links to the wrong one

[sick yew]

we are now

[unkempt robin]

or is that under the radar, which is revealed in Witch Queen?

[sick yew]

We didnt know for the longest time but it was slowly revealed in the Beyond Light year leading up to Witch Queen

[dim minnow]

maybe I can ask venetia if they can fix it

[sick yew]

Brother cant do shit right

[dim minnow]

you can just scroll up a bit and you'll find it

[sick yew]

@heavy vortex get in here brother

[slow berry]

yeah but y'know

you gotta complain

[dim minnow]

though keep in mind I kinda forgot about the Taken King

[slow berry]

squeaky wheels and all

[slow berry]

lmfao you're right

theres no ttk

[dim minnow]

hmmm, hold on

[unkempt robin]

So from my understanding, Savathun is responsible for the the pyramid being in Luna?

Does this also mean Savathun and the Witness are enemies at this point?
Is Savathun working in the interests of the Hive, or herself?

[heavy vortex]

What is it you seek

[unkempt robin]

or is this something ill find out in Witch Queen lol

[slow berry]

it's kinda fucking wild that crota is a whole raid boss and he's insanely hyped up leading up to the release of crota's end and his name is "crota, son of oryx"

immediately making you go "who the fuck is oryx"

[unkempt robin]

ive only watched some cutscenes of Red War, did Shadowkeep in its current state, and am starting out Beyond Light

[sick yew]

Btw if you want a timeline that spans beyond the gameplay side too

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/timeline

Might be worth checking this out

[slow berry]

i can tell you for that last one that its always herself

[sick yew]

Its not as detailed as Dovas writeup but it gives a basic overview

[slow berry]

the hive are very might makes right and thus all three hive siblings at the top of the food chain kinda just did whatever the fuck they wanted to

in a way that kept their worms fed

[unkempt robin]

this is alluding to the sword logic right?

[slow berry]

ye

[unkempt robin]

ok i think i understand most things preceding Beyond Light

[slow berry]

most information about savathûn youll get from witch queen ofc

[unkempt robin]

so the Pyramids showed up around Season of Arrivals, planets/moons disappeared alongside

and the game was saying you'd find your answers in Europa more or less

Which we coincidentally intercepted Varik's plee for help, and encountered stasis

[sick yew]

Pretty much, keep in mind the Pyramid on Luna has been there since the Collapse but the others only showed up afterwards

[unkempt robin]

Exo-Stranger also finally makes their reappearance, after asking us to do shit to Vex, id imagine the campaign will go into that once i play through it myself

I would've figured the pyramid would be much more proactive, which was what triggered my confusion

[slow berry]

she didn't really ask us to do much in d1 really

she was just like

"hey while you're at it"

[unkempt robin]

i was wondering if it was inactive or something lol

[sick yew]

Well they did steal 4 of our planets

[unkempt robin]

and yeah, the game atm makes no attempt to explain its prescense

it's just there

[slow berry]

the pyramid on luna was nezarec's

[sick yew]

And almost killed Rasputin when they entered Sol

[slow berry]

who during the past few hundred years was uhhhhh not available

[unkempt robin]

is Rasputin functionally dead rn?

and Ada, who is NOT the exo-stranger, is currently working to put him together?

[slow berry]

during beyond light he's out of comission but Ana was working on it

[unkempt robin]

btw, im currently talking strictly in Beyond light rn

oh right Ana, not ada

[unkempt robin]

holy this timeline is long lmao

yeah this is what i needed

[dim minnow]

so you know how you have several summaries of past D1/2 storylines pinned in this channel?

the ones I wrote

[heavy vortex]

Yes

[dim minnow]

turns out the one for D1 and its expansions is linked to the wrong message

[sick yew]

It covers basically everything from the earliest point in the lore aka what might be the beginning of the universe up to uh right now

[dim minnow]

also, I updated the D1 message to finally include Taken King and the april update for posterity

[heavy vortex]

Fixed

[unkempt robin]

speaking of the Hive

Taken King was felled in Destiny 1 right?

Meanwhile Savathun was doing their thing,
and the war hive god was frozen by Rasputin?

[sick yew]

Oryx died in D1 yes

[dim minnow]

Oryx was killed off in the D1 Taken King expansion yes

however, Nokris was the one frozen under Mars

not Xivu

[sick yew]

He sorta kinda came back briefly last year but uh thats a bit too far ahead in the timeline for you to worry about

[dim minnow]

and Savathun did have some involvement with Sol, though she never revealed herself until much later

[slow berry]

nokris was oryx's exiled and banished son, and crota's brother

[unkempt robin]

and Xivu was MIA for much longer pretty much?

[dim minnow]

Xivu didn't really pull up into Sol until season of the Deep I think

though she did start trying to establish a beachhead all the way back in Hunt

[slow berry]

xivu still hasn't pulled up

like the only visual we have of her is a cinematic still model isnt it

or two

[dim minnow]

we did see a projection of her on th eDreadnaught when she sent several huge swords into it

[frigid sparrow]

The eris cutscene, the hive lore bits, the end of final shape, intro to act 3 heresy

[unkempt robin]

ok probably my final question, and then ill finally play the damn game to find out myself

Exo's pretty much existed alongside humanity since the Golden Age right?

Whereas Awoken showed up right after the First Collapse?

[dim minnow]

I wonder if I should start doing a summary for the TFS year

[unkempt robin]

and Awoken people, are transformed humans who were escaping from the collapse?

and was in some pocket dimension where time moves much more slowly?

[slow berry]

thats the short answer

you could go read the long answer though its pretty cool

[dim minnow]

Marasenna lore book

[unkempt robin]

did the game establish who was responsible for saving those humans?

[slow berry]

exos were very rare and only started existing very near the end of the golden age

[unkempt robin]

i dont imagine it was light or dark

[slow berry]

and are still very rare today

[slow berry]

the marasenna does kinda sorta

[frigid sparrow]

these are the most clear bits we've seen from her

[slow berry]

tuning fork lookin ass

[dim minnow]

it was a calamity between Light and Dark that created a singularity which obliterated the passengers and crew of the ship

[frigid sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/silk-song-hornet-hollow-knight-sploinky-gif-1377865536021832535

[dim minnow]

then Mara, the first of them to "awaken" shaped the Awoken in her image

[unkempt robin]

oh i thought they were saved, everyone together bc of a singularity

[dim minnow]

technically they were saved

[unkempt robin]

due to Mara's doing, which is kinda unclear to me

[dim minnow]

they were basically safe in the Distributary

[sick yew]

Kinda strange tbh seeing a hive wear "clothes"

[dim minnow]

maybe not from the Final Shape, but from everything else they were

[unkempt robin]

so while they were there in the Distributary, time was passing much slower in reality, relatively speaking?

like was the collapse still ongoing?

[frigid sparrow]

maybe it's a part of her mothy design since she's aslo depicted with massive wings

so it'd be like, draped over her

with the skin outstretching into large wings

[slow berry]

yes

anywhere between millions and billions passed in the distributary depending on who you ask

[dim minnow]

by the time Mara and her followers left, I believe we were in the middle of the Dark Age

or maybe later on during it

[slow berry]

it was not long before the battle of twilight gap wasn't it?

[dim minnow]

Twilight Gap was much later during the City Age

the Awoken had been prety well established by that point

[slow berry]

am i confusing twilight gap and six fronts again

[dim minnow]

probably

[unkempt robin]

so awoken in the distributary, were lightless?

was the city even established by the time the Awoken pulled up?

[dim minnow]

maybe it was in its encampment phase

[dim minnow]

they weren't Lightbearers

though they were created from both Light and Dark

[unkempt robin]

since no one were lightbearers, im assuming they pulled up during the Dark Ages, rigther after the first collapse

and some time later, the traveler spawned ghosts which resurrected exos, humans and awoken alike

wow you would've figured awoken would have a roughly million year advantage in tech, coming back from the distrubatory

[dim minnow]

the Collapse ended right when the Traveler created Ghosts

[unkempt robin]

are you including the Dark Ages as well? ending alongside the Collapse?

or is that a distinct period?

[dim minnow]

Dark Age was right after Collapse

City Age was right after Dark Age

[unkempt robin]

oh ok 😅

oh yeah there was some strife between light beareres still

warlords and all

that makes sense

[dim minnow]

should be noted that not everyone wanted to go with Mara, so she might not have had access to all the good Distributary tech

[unkempt robin]

yeah iirc from a lore video, there was essentially a schism

[dim minnow]

also, they were playing isolationist for a while when they got to Sol

[slim girder]

There is a theory behind it but there's just one hole that I think sticks out
In the lore this lord of every nothing is "born" or "made" which wouldn't make sense because the nine have been around for way longer. Longer than the traveler and way before any of the events in destiny even happen it seems.

Not to mention this lord speaks is a different way to VI. We know that each member of the nine speak in a very unique way due to them having a completely alien form of communication

This lord of every nothing speaks almost like the hive gods do

[hard sigil]

VI is just really into the sword logic

[river surge]

I have another theory that VI got Taken fully, and The Lord of Every Nothing uses VI as a vessel to interact with the Nine and us

This theory makes even more sense since we know The Lord of Every Nothing literally blocked paths that The Winnower had acces to

The Winnower is basically a God

A literal higher god

The Lord of Every Nothing having acces to fully Take a planet and casually take over a 4D being would make more sense than actually interacting with it in the Ascendant Plane

[river surge]

Confirmed by the Witness

Btw

[slim girder]

We already knew this well before the witness said it. Oryx becoming the taken king was one of our first times even hearing about the winnower.
The witness just confirmed that they were in fact a separate being and then after that we got our first message from the winnower directed at us.

Back in shadowkeep we learned about the flower game and that whole eons old game

[river surge]

The whole mystery of this new Taken God resolves around Saturn

The Dreadnaught, VI, Taken

Its all there

This new guy from the trailer somehow worships VI

He even says "take everything I have"

Again could be a direct link to being taken

But again I might be coping

[slim girder]

We'll just have to see. I do enjoy theories tho.
My personal theory is that VI might be trying to investigate hive/taken power as a way to achieve that break from relying on our existence to live.
Hell maybe they could even ask savathun at some given how much knowledge on pretty much everything she has.

Not to mention savathun herself is also looking for an "escape" of her own

[river surge]

Thats another cool theory

[ember storm]

theory..

games

[frigid sparrow]

Leader of the Tharsis Reformation is "Zephyrus"

Also wait this fucker has a Fatebringer https://fxtwitter.com/DestinyTheGame/status/1989770378604843142?t=QuIdwtabGKx1qz8zVQi5aA&s=19

Destiny 2 (@DestinyTheGame)

Separated from the Conductor and now sentient, Zephyrus’s Tharsis Reformation seek out slick threads and games of chance across Tharsis Outpost and the Lawless Frontier.
︀︀
︀︀Destiny 2: Renegades // December 2, 2025
︀︀
︀︀🌙 bung.ie/renegades

**💬 18 🔁 16 ❤️ 235 👁️ 8.9K **

▶ Play video

FxTwitter · Nov 15, 2025, 7:00 PM

[slow berry]

LMAO

Wait is that retroactive lore for the vault weapons existing

[slim girder]

Fatebringer is from the vault of glass so there is lore implications for those specific weapons have many versions of themselves across time.

Like how we can get the normal versions and then timelost versions

[slow berry]

yeah but one of the things with vog weapons was why do the vex have weapons intended for human use

specifically vex mythoclast (which kinda sorta got the tie-in that it may have been intended to help the guardian clear out the taken)

so like maybe they have those weapons bc a minotaur wanted a big fucking pistols with explosive payload outlaw and farmed for it

[slim girder]

Given how much more adept our gear is compared to them maybe they just wanted something they have first hand experience of being defeated by

Slap rifles and aion hammers aren't good enough so maybe holding a fatebringer will help

[hard sigil]

and it's also cool as hell

[fringe sundial]

idk man choir of one is just a warp lance that got unscrewed from a wyvern

and it shreds

vex guns lowk better than ours

[fringe sundial]

also you can ask that about any raid weapons

whys nezarec got a glock

[blazing wasp]

His followers did consist of humans

Among other species

[fringe sundial]

yeah fair enough but its the witness' pyramid hes on

[blazing wasp]

Maybe he just kept then on him idk lmao

[fringe sundial]

i cant claim to know the guy but i dont think the witness would have an o-block antique

[hard sigil]

its also worth noting that nezarec spearheaded the collapse too. could've got his hands on one then

[cloud glacier]

what’s the lore behind Dead End Cure?

[hard sigil]

group of nomadic hunters

and that's. kinda it

[slim girder]

Hunters who were always moving

[hard sigil]

they sound like cowboys based on the quotes

[cloud glacier]

dang

[trim grotto]

The D.E.C. lore exists entirely within the flavour text of its armour.
Worn by 1st Brothers and Sisters of the Dead End Cure, a notorious posse of itinerant Hunters. - Cloak
"D.E.C. means you don't have to travel alone. Unless you want to." —D.E.C., 1st Brother to Unknown
"There's no dead ends, fella." —D.E.C., 1st Sister to Unknown
"The path don't end. You do." —D.E.C. slogan
"We kill miles." —D.E.C. slogan

This is the extent of it

[cloud glacier]

does it still exist?

[hard sigil]

that's literally all of their lore

[cloud glacier]

dang

[hard sigil]

we don't know

[cloud glacier]

rip

that’s less lore than Dr Shim had

[hard sigil]

I suspect that someone came up with the name Dead End Cure for an armour set and then just made the bare minimum to justify it

[cloud glacier]

bruh

[hard sigil]

it is a cool name

[cloud glacier]

they could have made lore for it to be a subdivision of the Praxic Order or smth

[trim grotto]

It's a rather common state for Y1 armour flavour text. D.E.C. is not alone in this.

[cloud glacier]

wasn’t the Praxic Order also a throwaway title for a group before Renegades?

[trim grotto]

No.

The Praxic Order has been a fairly well established, typically Warlock order since D1.

[cloud glacier]

ik the Praxic Order was brought up in Savathun’s Song

wait, since D1???

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[cloud glacier]

damn

[trim grotto]

Eriana-3, for example, was Praxic.

Part of the Crota fireteam with Eris Morn

[hard sigil]

they're the narcs

and always have been

[cloud glacier]

how much was Praxic directly involved in the main lore

[trim grotto]

Rather intimately during Season of the Drifter. We had to choose whether to side with Drifter or Aunor Mahal of the Praxic Order.

[hard sigil]

they're mostly brought up in relation to the drifter yeah

[slim girder]

They've been in the background mostly but still very much a thing

[cloud glacier]

interesting

[hard sigil]

renegades is the first time we'll see a member physically in game iirc

[trim grotto]

However, we have had their armour in game a number of times.

Wings of Sacred Dawn, for example, or the Robes of the Cormorant Blade.

[cloud glacier]

don’t we also run an errand for Praxic in one of the now-removed Y1 strikes

[slim girder]

Their latest lore appearance is aunor talking about the dealings happening on mars, cabal mugging xurs wares and how drifter has "stepped in something and is going to drag it on our carpet"

[trim grotto]

Nnnot that I recall. Unless you count working with Taeko-3 on Titan.

[cloud glacier]

wasn’t Savathun’s Song a rescue mission thing?

[hard sigil]

I hope they get expanded on a LOT right now they're just kinda the Inquisitorium from 40k

[trim grotto]

Wasn't a very successful one, but yes. Taeko-3 sacrificed herself to allow us to kill the Shrieker and stop the ritual.

[slim girder]

Are you talking about the saying "embrace the praxic fire"

[cloud glacier]

well dang

how well would that strike be received if it were brought back to D2

I think it was something some people were looking forward to in Deep

[slim girder]

It wouldn't really fit in the current game now tbh.
It could be rehashed in a way to fit current events but generally I didn't think we're going back to titan anytime soon

[trim grotto]

Depends on who you ask. Destiny fans have a variety of dichotic opinions.

The main reason people were excited was because Deep meant we went to Titan, and Titan was a destination. Many thought it meant the destination was returning, rather than the potential of one specific Strike.

[cloud glacier]

well it turned out Titan was not returning

[trim grotto]

True. But it has, in lore, which is why we're here.

[cloud glacier]

well technically it did but only in spirit

[slim girder]

Speaking of returning destinations. I saw on the renegades calendar that we're getting a solo ops on the tyhpon imperator. Makes me curious what else could be in that massive ship

[cloud glacier]

I wonder what other Solo Ops we’ll be getting

imagine a Solo Ops in Titan or Mars

[slim girder]

That's what orders will prolly be in renegades

They'll take place on mars it seems

With some going off planet

Renegades will be our first major trip back to mars since the spire of the watcher dungeon

[cloud glacier]

how has Bungie not brought Mars back anyway

[hard sigil]

is there established lore for the time wounds being fixed

[slim girder]

It is back. Been back since witch queen

[cloud glacier]

like, I’m pretty sure Hellas Basin is all but ported over already

[hard sigil]

or do we still just have pockets of golden age on mars

[cloud glacier]

not as a patrol space it hasn’t

[hard sigil]

we don't care about gameplay here this is the lore channel

[cloud glacier]

true

[slim girder]

Well there's lore reasoning for that. We just haven't had reasons to go there. Way more important things to handle at the time.
But now in renegades we now have a reason which is the whole new cabal faction and black market

[cloud glacier]

I don’t think Renegades has patrol spaces tho

[hard sigil]

it's got a social space in the form of tharsis

[cloud glacier]

true

which is from D1 Mars

[hard sigil]

it's an updated version

it's Tharsis Outpost now, not junction

[cloud glacier]

true, but it’s still the same physical location

[slim girder]

Mars is going to be different when we go there. Because we've been so busy in other places with other threats

[trim grotto]

Plus there's the whole 'time scars' thing.

[cloud glacier]

do you think there’s any more reason to go to Hellas Basin

[hard sigil]

in the way a city is the same location as the field that was there before it

[slim girder]

Probably not

[trim grotto]

Not particularly. We went there for Rasputin and Xol. Now both are dead.

[slim girder]

Unless we need something warmind related

[cloud glacier]

why didn’t Maya look to Mars for warmind tech anyway

[slim girder]

It's a derelict warmind facility at this point

[slim girder]

She wanted to extend the reach of her echos control

[hard sigil]

she did so by trying to (and successfully) find golden age tech and a warmind facility on earth. no reason to go off planet I guess

old Russia just has a really high concentration of stuff I guess

[slim girder]

We stopped this.
Also again there's probably not anything of value there with rasputin dead

It's a derelict warmind facility and we don't really have any use for it since at this time there is nothing that could replace Rasputin. Though we did get some lore on Astrea and Soteria reuniting which could go somewhere in the future

[fringe sundial]

devils lair makes no sense

[cloud glacier]

Devil’s Lair is chronologically from the D1 vanilla campaign

[slim girder]

Devils lair is a D1 strike.

[fringe sundial]

ah fair enough

[cloud glacier]

in D1 there was a Fallen house called the House of Devils

[fringe sundial]

i know about d1 lore

[slim girder]

Same logic applies to fallen SABER

[fringe sundial]

i meant chronologically

[cloud glacier]

basically every house has a servitor for a god

[fringe sundial]

i thought devils lair and fallen saber revamps were non canon

like remastered raids

[slim girder]

They are

[cloud glacier]

there is no reason for them not to be since story-wise they cover the same beats

[slim girder]

Again they're just old strikes. Not meant to serve any current lore events

[cloud glacier]

imo they are canon only in the sense that they are a retelling of old lore events

[fringe sundial]

i wish they gave that treatment to sunless cell

them forcing it into the lore felt awkward

[slim girder]

We'll be getting that back in renegades

[fringe sundial]

no i mean when it was remade in heresy

[cloud glacier]

they did the same thing to the Omnigul strike

[hard sigil]

I mean it makes sense at least

[slim girder]

I thought it was fine what they did

[hard sigil]

they locked a different guy in the cell, xivu wanted him out, the guy gets taken by the Lord

[fringe sundial]

also

off topic question

[cloud glacier]

anyway can we get Shield Brothers back

[fringe sundial]

im still kinda confused on how vex simulations have tangible effects on reality

especially considering paracausality

like the endless night

[slim girder]

Because that was done by a taken vex hydra

Not a normal vex

[hard sigil]

their simulations aren't just holograms, the vex net is actual reality that has been digitised. it's all physical matter, just transformed into a different form

[fringe sundial]

fair enough

but isnt our saint a simulated copy

i wasnt really paying attention in echoes

[hard sigil]

he's a saint from a different timeline

[fringe sundial]

ahhh ok

[cloud glacier]

and Maya really doesn’t like that

[fringe sundial]

yeah i remember maya spouting some racist stuff at him

[hard sigil]

which is ironic considering her plan also involves time travel

[cloud glacier]

Maya literally possessed Saint in Echoes

[fringe sundial]

yeah shes literally pulling "imperfect" cabal into our timeline

[hard sigil]

and her use of alternate timeline Red Legion

[fringe sundial]

free my boy valus thuun

[cloud glacier]

who even was Valus Thuun

[fringe sundial]

curse of osiris strike boss

he was in tree of probabilities

[slim girder]

Not anymore thanks to us now

[hard sigil]

cabal boss from the infinite forest

[cloud glacier]

rip Mercury

[fringe sundial]

year 1 cabal bosses have a weird habit of being pseudo-resurrected and possessed

[cloud glacier]

like Valus Ta’arc?

[fringe sundial]

i was talking about val ca'uor

but yeah him too

[cloud glacier]

valus ta’arc is from a different y1

[fringe sundial]

val ca'uor probably had the biggest demotion in all of destiny

[cloud glacier]

the D1 Y1

[fringe sundial]

from raid final boss to seasonal activity miniboss

[cloud glacier]

what even do the Cabal ranks mean

[hard sigil]

they're just military ranks basically

[fringe sundial]

bracus is the lowest officer rank
then val
then valus
then primus
then dominus

[cloud glacier]

imagine Dominus Ghaul

[fringe sundial]

a primus is in charge of a legion

and its kinda vague apart from that

[cloud glacier]

wait, what is Dominus Ghaul

[fringe sundial]

he was the original final boss of d2

[cloud glacier]

if primus is in charge of the legion

[fringe sundial]

red wars main villain

[cloud glacier]

that I know

what’s the dominus in charge of tho

[trim grotto]

Dominus is a weird one which should be considered an exception. When Ghaul replaced Calus, he didn't want to share the title of Emperor, so he just... used Dominus instead.

[fringe sundial]

ghaul led the midnight coup and usurped the empire from calus

[hard sigil]

Ghaul is the only dominus to have existed yeah

[slim girder]

Dominus is just a title calus made

[fringe sundial]

so dominus is like the cabal president

[slim girder]

Ghaul was a special exception

[trim grotto]

He was still functionally an Emperor, just... weird about it.

[cloud glacier]

and then Caiatl came along and called herself emperor again

[fringe sundial]

ghaul was a military dictator whereas calus was an absolute monarch

[trim grotto]

Caiatl was Calus's daughter, so she was always in line to be the Empress in due time.

[hard sigil]

Primus Forge is a cool name I hope Saladin gets that promotion

[cloud glacier]

on that note, why does Caiatl sound masculine

[fringe sundial]

that would be cool

[fringe sundial]

because cabal names in general sound masculine

[trim grotto]

You mean her voice? Just... Cabal things. Or do you mean the name?

[cloud glacier]

no, like, Caiatl’s voice

[fringe sundial]

oh

[hard sigil]

larger vocal muscles = deeper voice

[fringe sundial]

its because they're 800 pound space elephants

[hard sigil]

and as she's a 8 foot tall rhino

[trim grotto]

Empress Caiatl shares the same VA as Amanda Holiday, so make of that what you will.

[hard sigil]

she has pretty big vocal chords

[fringe sundial]

i did not know this

[cloud glacier]

oh wow

[fringe sundial]

did you know crow and uldren sov have the same VA

[trim grotto]

[hard sigil]

but they're so different..

[cloud glacier]

did you know crow and uldren sov have the same body

[trim grotto]

now that's just crazy talk

[fringe sundial]

did you know crow and uldren sov are both bums

[slim girder]

Did you know crow and uldren have the same sister?

[fringe sundial]

who stole the hunter vanguard position from its rightful holder

marcus ren

[cloud glacier]

what about Andal Brask

[trim grotto]

he's got a case of mild death

[fringe sundial]

hes dead as hell bro

[slim girder]

Diagnosed with death.

[fringe sundial]

taniks jumped him in a restricted zone

[cloud glacier]

did you know: 100% of lightbearers die of death

[fringe sundial]

also i find the lore explanation of restricted zones so funny

like

[trim grotto]

let's be real, it'd be Didi running the show

[fringe sundial]

apparently they're caused by the darkness

[trim grotto]

That is one of the explanations of Restricted/Darkness zones.

[cloud glacier]

in D1 they’re literally called Darkness Zones

[fringe sundial]

when savathun's personal garden is directly under the traveler at one point and is still a darkness zone

[cloud glacier]

and if you died in them it actually says “the darkness consumed you”

[trim grotto]

Because it isn't the only explanation.

[cloud glacier]

my personal headcanon is that your Ghost tries to resurrect you but is killed because there are just too many enemies

[trim grotto]

Yes, you're quite close.

[fringe sundial]

my personal headcanon is ghost is a lazy bum ass loser

[trim grotto]

The Future War Cult developed a theory, which has gained attraction among circles such as the Hidden.

"Simply in a neighboring timeline. A place where he is still alive and intact. And wherever there is great danger, wherever the probability of death is too high, then those timelines become scarce and hard to reach. And so you find the zones where Guardians cannot easily be remade."

If this is true, then I am doomed and free. There will be no alternate worlds in which my Guardian escapes that trap. There will be no hope of resurrection.```

[cloud glacier]

Ghost literally died for you in TFS why you calling him a lazy bum ass loser 😭

[fringe sundial]

he stole my kill

[trim grotto]

To put this another way, the more dangerous the situation, the more difficult it is to resurrect you.

[blazing wasp]

my head cannon shoots cannonballs

[trim grotto]

alright black hat

[hard sigil]

you're the one that used him as a Kamehameha

[fringe sundial]

hey i couldve killed the witness without him

just needed one more dps phase

[cloud glacier]

make it shoot heads instead

[trim grotto]

anyway i'm gonna go get tea and toast don't have too much lore fun in the meantime

[cloud glacier]

it’s a head cannon after all

[trim grotto]

or else i will

continue to drink tea

[fringe sundial]

on another note

imagine how bittersweet tfs wouldve been if ghost just stayed dead

when i got to the final cutscene i thought it was ggs when the traveler didnt res him

and i thought we'd just be carrying his corpse around like a trinket

[cloud glacier]

the Traveller doesn’t resurrect ghosts in general

[hard sigil]

if it weren't a live service game it would've made for a pretty alright ending. wouldn't have had catharsis though. might've been too dark for the tone

[fringe sundial]

oh yeah but its the least it couldve done for us

[cloud glacier]

problem is if Ghost stayed dead how is Bungie gonna keep Destiny going

[fringe sundial]

idk man

some prismatic deus ex machina

we can self res again

[cloud glacier]

BRUH

THAT’S LITERALLY THE CUT ENDING FOR TFS

[hard sigil]

yeah but then there's no stakes if we just become actually fully immortal

[fringe sundial]

thats why it wouldve made a bad ending

hot take

[cloud glacier]

the unused ending for TFS would literally have been our Guardian using Light and Darkness in harmony to self-res our Ghost

[fringe sundial]

i wasnt too bummed out when cayde died again

[fringe sundial]

i think i saw thaf

that

[cloud glacier]

would Cayde have even been able to leave the pale heart if he wanted to

[fringe sundial]

maybe

i mean

our ghost could

and caydes part of him now

[cloud glacier]

true

honestly it would have been poetic if the Guardian just sacrificed himself to kill the Witness in TFS

[fringe sundial]

i cant wait for bungie to use the ahamkara de-extinction they foreshadowed

[hard sigil]

it'd be nice to see some whims around

[cloud glacier]

didn’t Riven die cursing the Dreaming City

[fringe sundial]

imagine the cutscene ends and we play as a new light inheriting all our old loot

[fringe sundial]

yeah but we brought her eggs back

in season 23

[hard sigil]

riven died to these hands

[cloud glacier]

to whose hands

[hard sigil]

anyone who played last wish

[fringe sundial]

riven died to 5 glacial quakes and an ingrown toenail

[cloud glacier]

I thought Riven was already dead?

[fringe sundial]

ahamkara are weird

[hard sigil]

she was taken partially by oryx

but she was alive until we killed her

[fringe sundial]

they're like

[hard sigil]

and now she's a ghooooost

[fringe sundial]

semi immortal

[cloud glacier]

lol

imagine if SIVA was immortal

[hard sigil]

Ahamkara stay "alive" even when they're bones

they just can't do anything

[fringe sundial]

taranis was awesome i wish he survived

[hard sigil]

apart from granting wishes and talking

[trim grotto]

Oi
You better not be spreading lore lies in here

[cloud glacier]

wait, if SIVA are mechanical what’s stopping someone from just gathering dead SIVA and wiring them to something else

[fringe sundial]

rasputin is dead

SIVA cant function without him

[hard sigil]

pretty sure an Ahamkara only truly dies if they starve

[fringe sundial]

like the warsats

[cloud glacier]

I mean yea but aren’t there SIVA prototypes in Mars

[fringe sundial]

if there is they're dead

unless youre thinking of the neomuni nanotech

[trim grotto]

Riven is extremely truly dead and SIVA doesn't function without central command and an AI to command it like with the Exodus Ships
Outbreak only works because of the small scale

[cloud glacier]

wasn’t SIVA made with the intent of replicating Vex radiolaria

[trim grotto]

I'm still in the kitchen gimme a bit

No

[fringe sundial]

siva was made for construction in the golden age

[cloud glacier]

I remember the Chioma logs having an entry on SIVA

[fringe sundial]

youre thinking of exomind fluid

[cloud glacier]

how big even is BrayTech

[fringe sundial]

very big

[hard sigil]

it was inspired by it

[fringe sundial]

braytech is like spaceX but with a capable leader

[hard sigil]

just as if not less moral though

[cloud glacier]

and also a very narcissistic one

[fringe sundial]

yes

clovis is genuinely more morally bankrupt than the 3 hive gods

[cloud glacier]

what was the BrayTech facility in Mars used for

[fringe sundial]

that was rasputin and charlemagnes mainframe plus other miscellaneous stuff

[hard sigil]

Rasputin

[trim grotto]

Consider that Braytech made the Warsat network system wide, the AI in charge of all of the solar system defences, controlled Europa, headed AI research, created Exo, so on so forth
Big company

Engrams too

[cloud glacier]

and now its leader is doing Gunsmith work in the Tower

what a fall from grace indeed

[fringe sundial]

yo guys

question for everyone

[slim girder]

SIVA doesn't need Rasputin specifically to power it. But it does require something very powerful to use it in the way it's meant to be.

[fringe sundial]

whats your favourite lore book

[slim girder]

The book of unmaking

[fringe sundial]

mines the rubicon

[trim grotto]

I'm partial to Ghost Stories

[fringe sundial]

i love the witness as a concept and character

[hard sigil]

yeah ghost stories is good

[fringe sundial]

and the rubicon is perfect in my opinion

[hard sigil]

Ive spent a good amount of time in Epochs and Orbits recently

it pretty much tells us what each of the outers are planning

[fringe sundial]

haven't read any of the new nine lore

cause im tryna avoid EOF spoilers

[cloud glacier]

the outers are the ones that wanna kill us right?

[fringe sundial]

in case i feel like buying it one day

[fringe sundial]

i think so

also

speaking of the nine

each one is connected to a planet right?

[hard sigil]

they're the ones who aren't interested in cooperation

and just want to do whatever it takes

[cloud glacier]

more so the gravitational forces of the planets but yea

[fringe sundial]

were they affected at all when the witness hoovered up mercury and mars

[hard sigil]

the planets (and moons) were replaced with gravitational wells of equal mass

[fringe sundial]

like what the glykon flew into

[cloud glacier]

apparently not because otherwise Bungie would have to explain how the solar system did not fall apart when the two planets disappeared

[fringe sundial]

i genuinely forget uranus and venus exist in destiny

venus hasn't been important since TTK

uranus hasn't been important ever

[cloud glacier]

tbf Uranus barely exists

Jupiter is somewhat relevant because it’s the closest planet to Nessus

[fringe sundial]

and cause of its moons

[cloud glacier]

Io I think?

[fringe sundial]

io and europa

are both moons of jupiter

[hard sigil]

it was flown next to the anomaly, just next to phobos

[cloud glacier]

I see

and then Saturn is Dreadnaught and Titan

[fringe sundial]

neptune is neomuna obviously

[cloud glacier]

Neptune is Neptune (tho imo we should try going to Triton at some point)

[fringe sundial]

if we go anywhere new next i want it to be reclaiming torobatl

[cloud glacier]

yea definitely not Fundament since atm Savathun hates us

[fringe sundial]

on the topic of reclaim

[trim grotto]

Fundament was abandoned by the Hive literally billions of years ago anyway

[fringe sundial]

crota and almost every important hive outside of savathuns brood are dead

[cloud glacier]

was it a Krypton-type situation

[fringe sundial]

we should retake the moon properly

[hard sigil]

it's got Caelus Station in orbit but that's it

[fringe sundial]

or at least purge it

[trim grotto]

Sort of. God-Wave, would have wiped out all life. But then they became the Hive by making pacts with the Worm Gods and abandoned this planet that held nothing more for them.

[hard sigil]

hard to do when it's been hollowed out and infested by what's probably millions if not billions of hive

[cloud glacier]

the only way to purge the Moon is to use large rockets to divert its trajectory towards Earth so that it passes the Roche limit and disintegrates into rings

[fringe sundial]

sweet business

[fringe sundial]

mega traveler death ray

[hard sigil]

wasn't the god wave just entirely a lie

[trim grotto]

Get every Hunter to start firing Golden Gun shots at the moon

[cloud glacier]

the Traveller is still healing from what the Witness did it’s in no mood to unleash a death ray

[fringe sundial]

yes

[trim grotto]

No. The lie was saying the Traveler caused it.

[cloud glacier]

it was the Witness

[trim grotto]

It was the Worm Gods, but close enough.

[cloud glacier]

or like the Witness had smth to do with it

[fringe sundial]

gravitational weapons fit the pyramids MO a lot more than the worm gods

[cloud glacier]

I assume MO means modus operandi?

[fringe sundial]

yes

[cloud glacier]

nice I called it

[trim grotto]

If they were involved, they were never mentioned. It is suggested the reason Fundament was covered in shattered planetary debris was because of the Worm Gods pulling planets down to Fundament, however. Seeking food. Seeking freedom.

Which they did eventually get in the Hive

[cloud glacier]

at least Savathun’s worm is now in a prison of Light

that we now wield as Parasite

[trim grotto]

[fringe sundial]

savathuns worm is trapped in a fishtank gun

[cloud glacier]

wait that server has a common engram emoji

[fringe sundial]

nostalgia

[trim grotto]

We have many
Wouldn't be very good calling ourselves the Cryptarchy without Engrams

[fringe sundial]

i miss splicer so so so much

best season in the games history

[cloud glacier]

kinda wish D2 started new players out with Common armour again

[hard sigil]

I started playing at the veeery end of splicer

[fringe sundial]

it does

[fringe sundial]

i started in red war

[cloud glacier]

no, the armour that new lights start out with now is uncommon armour

[fringe sundial]

took a break after shadowkeep

came back at the beginning of splicer

never stopped

[cloud glacier]

cool

bro missed Arrivals

[fringe sundial]

i played a little bit of arrivals

contact was very fun

[cloud glacier]

the one thing we have left from Arrivals is Prophecy

[fringe sundial]

i still have a screenshot of the pyramid above mercury

[cloud glacier]

that’s cool

[fringe sundial]

i hate that the pyramid aesthetic is gonna get more and more rare now

i love everything about the witness and the black fleet so much

[cloud glacier]

only con about it is the DCV

rip Red War and four entire destinations

[fringe sundial]

you think we can press a button and bring back all the raids

[fringe sundial]

they left the two worst year 1 destinations too bro im actually so angry

[cloud glacier]

kinda wish the planets could just become un-Taken after the Witness’ death

[fringe sundial]

why'd they take io and mars but leave nessus