📚lore-discussion

[frigid sparrow]

It was right about BL launch, in weblore

[mild junco]

Why do the vex like triangles so much

[dapper moss]

they are the perfect shape

mathematically

[mild junco]

Are they perhaps final

[slow berry]

they like circles a lot also

[dapper moss]

also a mathematically relevant shape

they are greek after all they love geometry

[grizzled zinc]

triangles and circles are also motif shape guys

holy shit this is groundbreaking

[slim girder]

Correct.
Goes to show machine guns just aren't really good weapons at all

Both in the sandbox and lore

Except for xenophage because that gun has little bug omar inside

[nova knoll]

What’s your favorite silly gun lore?

[ember storm]

The Osteo striga we have ingame is just a deepsight replica and the original is still in the possession of the creator, whose a criminally insane warlock using it to disembowel people

There have been no updates on her capture or location

[dim minnow]

Unique exotic sound effects like the Chaperone whip crack are canon because it played in a cutscene when Amanda was using it against the Vex

[slim girder]

Master rahool yelling at one of caydes hunters trying to get the blueprints for Prometheus lens

[slim girder]

Idk if this has any lore signifigance but i noticed that in the conflux solo ops it's regular vex and not choral vex anymore. Maybe maya is being forced off nessus or something

[frigid sparrow]

it's also dire taken instead of normal taken despite those typically being the ones infesting the vex network, and there's a ghostly eversion anchor that hovers over the arena

[slim girder]

That's always been there. I think nowadays unless dealing with xivu we might be dealing with dire taken from now on

No witness or oryx left to create taken anymore so just the lord of every nothing pumping out these new taken.

[hard sigil]

I guess you can kinda consider them feral in a way. the only greater Will controlling them is one born from their own lack of will. Which still feels paradoxical to me. How did a bunch of things with no will somehow will a brand new god into existence? The only thing I can think of is that Oryx didn't perfect taking, and those that were still retained some part of their soul and own desires

maybe I'm missing something

[slim girder]

The need to follow is part of the taken as a whole. It's an instinct to them if that makes sense. The taken must follow something with a strong will. Toland has told us this many times

Something must always lead the taken regardless of where it comes from

But since no one was strong enough after the witness they filled that void themselves with that need for a will to lead them

[hard sigil]

and if there's nothing to fill that position something will be created that can alright yeah

thats fun it's like a universal constant

[slim girder]

It's just one of destinys "rules of the universe" if that makes sense. Just like with things such as the sword logic, bomb logic or the flower game.

[hard sigil]

weird to think that there's probably been some form of taken since the birth of the universe

or at least since there was wills to take and be taken

[slim girder]

The power of taking comes from the winnower. They've been around possibly before the birth of the universe.

Don't forget taken power can also be used to blight and cut tears into the ascendant plane. The memory of oryx even brings up that the lord of every nothing was carving paths that should belong to the winnower

Meaning it is doing things on the same level as destiny's equivalent to a cosmic god

[hard sigil]

true

surely this will be of no consequence to us and cause no problems down the line

[slim girder]

No clue. All we know is the lord of every nothing exists, it's growing and even if we get rid of every taken in the system, it won't just die. the deed is done and it's alive

So far this has been the new being that could be our new "witness" in terms of power if that makes sense but again no idea

[river surge]

What was The Great Disaster?

The moment the hive took over the moon and Eris team died?

[sick yew]

When the send like a thousand guardians to the moon to reclaim it and almost all of them died

[slim girder]

It was the moment the guardians first encountered crota

"the lighteater" as he was callled murdered thousands of guardians who had banded together to retake the moon via the praxic order

All those nightmares we see on the moon are the "ghosts" of those guardians

[river surge]

Thats crazy

And about Rasputin why did he kill the Iron Lords

I really find Rasputin lore super nice

[slim girder]

To kill his "son" felwinter. though at the time we didn't know this information and thought rasputin had simply done it in self defense against what he thought were intruders

[river surge]

Oh

I thought it had something to do with Siva

But I was wrong

[slim girder]

The irons lords wanted siva for humanity. Rasputin used it to kill them and also felwinter which was the target all along

Rasputin had already tried many times to drop a warsat on felwinter to kill him but it never worked. So he lured him and the iron lords in with siva and then turned it loose on them

Killing felwinter but also all the iron lords save for saladin and efrideet

[ember storm]

Fun fact siva was only used on the last remaining 8 or so iron lords

Everyone else was just killed by combat frames and warsats

[slim girder]

Didn't saladin say nine?

Please don't tell me this was also the nine doing shit as well

[orchid folio]

Where is Efrideet?

[hard sigil]

a pacifist commune somewhere in the reef iirc

[river surge]

Not gonna hate or anything but they might reckon alot of stuff this saga with The Nine having the posibility to interact with individuals and change their fate

[slim girder]

Reckon? You mean retcon?

[river surge]

Yes

Auto corrector

[slim girder]

I don't think they will be but i would imagine some events with enough mystery behind them could be a nice insert for the nine

[river surge]

The Final Shape live event

[slim girder]

So astrea is going through Rasputins network now. Good to see her again after vespers host.

Don't think she'll be a complete replacement but having another AI take up that empty space Rasputin left behind would be pretty good.

Also nice to hear about Owl sector again. I'm still wearing their emblem back in D1

[ember storm]

Ngl I forgot she existed

[slim girder]

She's cool. But failsafe is still my fav AI in Destiny

[fleet tusk]

Do exo’s have a conscience or are they programmed to replicate a persons personality? And if they are programmed would that make Osiris a robosexual?

[river surge]

Rasputin was the best AI

btw

[slim girder]

They are a mental scan of a persons brain which is then uploaded to a robotic body.

[river surge]

Rasputin lore imo was so good in fact I want him to come back

[sick yew]

They basically just put your brain onto an USB drive via radioactive bullshit thats why it kills the biological brain

[fleet tusk]

So it’s a robot replicating a human?

[sick yew]

Its a robot with a human brain

[slim girder]

^^^

Or mind

[fleet tusk]

So does that make Osiris robosexual?

[slim girder]

He sees Saint as Saint. Him being an exo doesn't really matter

[fleet tusk]

This is very important I NEED to know the answer

[sick yew]

That isnt a real term and not really no

Since an Exo functions with a scan of a biological brain calling them robots feels a bit odd

[fleet tusk]

Ok so he’s gay

[sick yew]

Yes

[slim girder]

Yes

[fleet tusk]

Dope

[sick yew]

Indeed

[river surge]

From the same creators of Halo

And the company that brought you Call of Duty

Destiny

🥲

[dim minnow]

pretty sure SIVA was used on the other actually

[ember storm]

all Saladin mentioned was fighting Rasputin tech and then only finding Siva at the replication chamber where Rasputin used it against them

https://youtu.be/5Jox8az2mLY?si=hFiZQE5gNG1bcbdL&t=62

[modern lodge]

What killed the majority of them?

Also have we seen Saladin's ghost?

[slow berry]

just general warmind murder tech

turrets, exo frames also i think

[frigid sparrow]

Plus the various warlord murders over the years

[hard sigil]

I think this is literally the only time (d1 Cutscene). her name's Isirah

[grizzled zinc]

how did the emissary of the nine like

decide she didn wanna be doin that no more

[blazing wasp]

Had enough free will, maybe she was just strong, we're not quite sure beyond her being strong enough in some way to occasionally resist

[trim grotto]

She's been resisting for years. Even managed to communicate as Orin before, back in... Arrivals?

[slim girder]

Yes. During the prophecy dungeon. Don't remember the exact words but she told us to keep doing what we were doing I believe

[sick yew]

Isn't it equally possible the Nine just let her resist

[slim girder]

I don't think they'd allow that. Like just look at how they bully orin for quitting.

Xur was a failed experiment, Orin quit so Lodi is their 3rd shot at making an emissary who is "competent" in their eyes

[sick yew]

I mean the issue with the Nine is that you can always argue that no matter what they intended for that to happen and were just playing along so that their desired reality would come true

Like maybe they had to bully Orin so she would act the way she does during EoF to ensure what would end up happening actually did

[grizzled zinc]

bro said i love your stuff keep it up

[dim minnow]

She said that the Nine knew a lot more than they were telling us, and that they are very inefficient and can't decide on what to tell us. She then informed us that Light and Dark were set to go to war again.

Also that we might not be able to trust everything we hear from the Nine and her

[slim girder]

Ahh I see.

[grizzled zinc]

is prismatic a thing all guardians can do now or is it just our thing

[hard sigil]

technically guardians have always been able to harness all aspects of the light (and presumably darkness) at any time (see Ikora throwing a nova bomb and then performing a chaos reach almost immediately afterwards in the Witch Queen campaign for an example). Prismatic just seems to note our distinct mastery over doing so, and the "transcendent" state of harmony with them

[grizzled zinc]

ah so TLDR it’s our unique thing?

[hard sigil]

for now, but I'm sure others will follow. it's just a state of mind mostly

an internal harmony of the forces of the universe within oneself

[grizzled zinc]

is the lore tab from prismatic our guardian’s annecdote?

[hard sigil]

potentially? don't know where else it'd come from

[slim girder]

It's not our guardian. But just a lil story from another guardian about how each class views things if that makes sense.

As for transcendence so far we haven't seen other guardians use if but at the end of the final shape we saw ikora using strand so she's definitely looking into that power and has enough knowledge on it to even teach Zavala stasis

I think as time goes on we could see it become more common place but prismatic generally does sell itself as something you need to truly master.

[slow berry]

omg free money

[lofty badge]

Any Thories as to who leads the Shadow legion in Neomuna now?

[frigid sparrow]

It's Yirix and Otzot

[lofty badge]

makes sense

Tho..why would Otzot have rejoined Calus after betraying him in the first place?

[frigid sparrow]

We know this since the Tormentor and subjugator duo in encore are sworn to Yirix, and in the ghost missions for insight terminus it's revealed kargen is a clone from shadow legion tech

And Otzot again tried to access the network

[frigid sparrow]

Simple: calus is dead

[lofty badge]

so Otzot took command of elements of the shadow legion after Calus died?

[frigid sparrow]

Presumably yes

[lofty badge]

ah alright

[frigid sparrow]

We don't know the specific when and where

[lofty badge]

wonder why Otzot dresses some of her troops in red armor and outfit them with red legion gear

[frigid sparrow]

Because that's who they were in the mission

[lofty badge]

lol

[frigid sparrow]

It's just a narrative/gameplay disconnect

Like house dusk being used for Kell's scourge/house salvation in zero hour

[dim minnow]

Kell's Scourge never really had their own distinct designs (excluding specific individuals and Berserkers) as they weren't organized like a full on House

[delicate oracle]

Is that nightmare king grimm

Pure vessel slams 💔 💔

[dim minnow]

as for Zero Hour, House Salvation hadn't really been established at that point

it wasn't until after her failure to steal Outbreak that she decided to make her own house instead of trying to restore Devils

[frigid sparrow]

:3

[grizzled zinc]

just grimm, nightmare king grimm is all-red

[delicate oracle]

He WILL be seeing red when pure vessel slams his booty 💔 😭

[frigid sparrow]

yeah, but they were organized like a crime syndicate, which spider's syndicate manages to achieve with a different design philosophy and house banner

[eager trout]

Ok, I recently got into Warframe, so...

Vex vs Infested

Which is more infectious?

[queen swallow]

By definition, Infested. Vex can't do anything, in terms of infecting you, until you drink the fluid. Infested sound like they can just straight up corrupt you without doing anything

[eager trout]

Ok, and in the case they encounter each other, which could out-assimilate the other? Infested wouldn't count as Paracausal, as far as I know, so the Vex shouldn't be completely helpless.

[queen swallow]

That'd depend on how quick the process is for either

[eager trout]

Infested don't seem to be too fast.

But it might be able to take hold of a few Vex units

The Vex would probably have a few failed attempts at containing it before they find a way to do it without the containment being assimilated as well

[trim grotto]

Unless they Asher Mir you

Well actually more than that

Just look at what happened to Clovis

Mere proximity interaction, as a non-paracausal being, can result in Vex memetic infection

[jagged badge]

I can’t help with this thought experiment because I 1) don’t know shit about Warframe and 2) honestly am not overly familiar with how the Vex science actually works lol

[trim grotto]

I guess it's mostly contextual. I think the Vex are more inevitable due to their limited temporal command and patience, and if the Infested can be simulated, they can be planned for. The Infested might win on the small scale, but the Vex would win the war.

[queen swallow]

Depends on whether or not the Vex fluid counts as organic matter

Because while the Infested can infect both organic and non-organic, it needs organic to keep growing, I think

[slim girder]

Vex fluid is organic.

[frigid sparrow]

is silica organic like that

[slim girder]

Though a single drop of radiolaria contains countless vex so they could possibly assimilate whatever touched it.

Infection could try to assimilate and get assimilated right back

[frigid sparrow]

WAIT

[slim girder]

Vex imo do this more aggressively so I think the vex would win

[frigid sparrow]

IS THIS WHY YOU CAN'T DRINK RADIOLARIA

[queen swallow]

I do think Mael is right, solely because of the Vex's capabilities with time and simulation.

[queen swallow]

I mean, silica in general is just bad for humans

In terms of ingesting it

[slim girder]

Vex radiolaria is like "electric acid" it eats through and then assimilates. The infected however is fairly docile and spreads more like say egregore

It doesn't attack things like radiolaria would

[trim grotto]

I suppose it also depends on how hardy the Infested are. Does it/they infest universal organic matter? Radiolarian fluid is mildly radioactive and full of heavy metals, and the Vex aren't exactly your average mammal or insect or what have you. Radiolarian fluid isn't passive, either. It's charged with energy, absorbs kinetic force, and actively converts that which it touches in turn.

If we use examples from Destiny's universe, Vex losses can be put into two categories:
First, paracausal enemies such as Hive, Taken, and Guardians.
Secondly, small scale losses such as against Cabal Legions and the Vexo War - the latter of which only failed because of the portal being shut down due to a single replenishing strike force and the Vex not being established yet.

[eager trout]

One thing tho is that Infested have a "mind", and can consciously react to things. So maybe they'd try harder against the Vex.

[slim girder]

Probably but I still feel the vex would overpower it.
It's like Tyranids vs necrons in Warhammer. One needs organic matter and if the opposing force continues to destroy and assimilate what they have, eventually they'll have nothing and be overtaken

[ember storm]

even then we have cases of Radiolaria being so powerful it's able to convert taken themselves regardless of their origin

Asher: Completely suicidal! The Vex infect whatever they touch. Their self-replication subroutines would consume the Taken from the inside out. Perhaps they simply don't realise the dangers.```

[slim girder]

Vex and hive/taken would be locked in a stalemate for eternity.
Which is why I've always wanted to see more hive and vex shenanigans

I don't think we've properly seen the vex and the hive/taken go at each other.
Only notable interactions between them was when crota accidentally let them into Oryxs throne world and also quria blade transformed being a vex hydra

[trim grotto]

Right but
Then it didn't do that and Asher was wrong

[slim girder]

Vex can get rid of taken as we saw in the festering core strike on io. But we still had to eliminate its main source and the taken commander.

Then afterwards we simply left and let the vex handle the rest.

[ember storm]

My goat could never be wrong

[slim girder]

Even ikora finds his books not worth reading

[trim grotto]

something something synthetic light on io

[slim girder]

Asher and his crazy experiments

Only one that actually seemed to work was the veil simulation in the vex net that we found back during season of defiance

[ember storm]

You’re all just haters

Who could predict that the witch queen was sending taken to physically imprison vex in blights

[dense pike]

warmachine3156 has been banned!

[ember storm]

[jagged badge]

https://tenor.com/view/boom-boom-you-looking-for-this-war-machine-gif-20311708

[sick yew]

Man I havent watched Age of Ultron in fucking ages now that I think of it

[calm granite]

don't bother tbh

there's some nice scenes but age has not changed anything with its shortcomings

[blazing wasp]

I likes Ultron but that's about it for the movie for me

[slim girder]

I don't like superhero movies in general tbh.

[ember storm]

i liked the new superman

[blazing wasp]

im bored of bad superhero movies, not superhero movies

[slim girder]

Seeing clips of the current superhero stuff isn't really helping in changing my opinion.

[river surge]

So Winterbite was actually real

but Bungie decided to not add him

what a waste opportunity

(I speculate thats Winterbite but based on the weapon he is holding and the way he looks he 100% gives me a Witness disciple vibe)

Omg after looking to those arts I realised they couldve went nuts with stasis ice castles

[slim girder]

They made it clear it wasn't going to be an official storyline. And tbh looking at all that concept none of that kind of thing would have fit in destiny.
Cool art don't get me wrong but it's not uncommon for people to draw art for say mediaeval fantasy and then take that and find a way to fit into a sci fi setting

[river surge]

That was their first itheration of Pyramid ships and disciples

and tbh

They went nuts with the design in that period

I am still waiting for that expansion where Bungie finally fucking decides we are going off system and explore more of the galaxy

[slim girder]

Concepts always look crazy. Because it's just art and it's not supposed to represent something in game that needs to be developed.
Also I've always had sneaking suspicion that there's always bias towards concept art of things. Like lets say we had the stasis castles and everything right now and then they showed what we have now but as concept art, would people knowing what could've been want it?

I hope that makes sense

[river surge]

The whole idea the Black Fleet having a Disciple in each pyramid couldve been crazy

tho

And again I might sound I am literally over askying too much

[slim girder]

It's a cool concept but at the end of the day it is just a concept.
Still cool to see some sick art tho and the ideas being thrown around

[frigid sparrow]

It's an interesting idea that falls flat when destiny already has an issue with villain of the week storytelling

"wahaha, I am le evil pyramid alien #109! You killed my master! Die, die!"

[slow berry]

it would have been cool if there were a completely solid unchangeable number of pyramids

but i think i like "the pyramids are alive and yearn for a master" a lot

[frigid sparrow]

Sure, but that creates the issue of losing some of the mystique around the countless fleets of pyramid ships, and never truly being able to know when and where they end

If we're told "btw there's exactly 465 pyramid ships within the black fleet" that gives them a definitive end

But unique pyramid dwellers just would never be able to be satisfactory within destiny

[river surge]

Waity

wait

wait

wait

I need clear confirmation

casue I am in a dilema

rn

Can Riven actually grant any wish?

or any ahamkara in general?

[slim girder]

Yes.

Though the means of granting that wish can vary heavily

[slow berry]

Yesnt

They do need power to do that

[river surge]

So we couldve wish to kill The Witness without any issue?

or it dosent work like that

[slow berry]

It took the combined single desire of six guardians to gain enough power to fulfill's Riven's Last Wish to Savathûn

[slow berry]

we dont know

[slim girder]

It wouldn't be as simple as that. Given the power of the witness a simple "I wish to kill the witness" wish wouldn't be possible

[slow berry]

aint no one tried a wish that big I think

[slim girder]

The biggest wish we have seen enacted was the dreaming city curse

[river surge]

So it bascially a stretch

depending on what u wish

[slim girder]

I guess sending crow into the pale heart might have also been quite a huge one

Correct

[river surge]

Okay

[slim girder]

But generally people want simple things so ahamkara prey on that.

[river surge]

But is bringing someone back from death a stretch or its also possible but it requires alot of power

[slim girder]

I wish to have a statue of myself and somewhere down the line I get crushed by that statue of myself.
It's that sort of thing

[slim girder]

We honestly have no clue. Tho remember it required 6 paracausal guardians to curse the dreaming city.
Crow being a guardian could have had enough power for riven to bring cayde back inside the pale heart, not to mention crows thoughts of cayde when he unknowingly made that wish

Ahamkara especially saw guardians as prime prey

[river surge]

Who was that guardian who made a bet with one?

I forgot the name

[slim girder]

Tallulah fairwind the hunter vanguard

Iirc

[river surge]

Dangggg

Imagine doing a one final bet

I want something in exchange for my life

the ultimate gamble

[slim girder]

You can read about that lore in the calibans hand exotic. Caliban 3 being Tallulahs replacement after she lost that bet

[slim girder]

As hunters do

[river surge]

Hunters are the real ones in Destiny

Even tho I dont play as a hunter main I still love them

[ember storm]

6 Hunter vanguards that died so far

Place your bets on how long crow lasts

[river surge]

Crow feels sooo delulu ngl

He might live alot just cause he is I think more personal

and no really risking but if he wents in a hunters path with gambling

then its over

[slim girder]

One difference about crow is that he doesn't seem to be a big gambler. Unlike basically all other hunters

[river surge]

Yeah true

He feels like he is on his own agenda

[slim girder]

He's weirdly enjoying the vanguard role. And hunters generally view vanguard as being tied down

[river surge]

Another question

Who created the vault of glass

Atheon or The Vault created Atheon

I simply dont know how that works tbh

[slow berry]

the vex created the vault

an individual vex does nothing, and atheon is not an individual vex either

atheon is a cpu basically

[river surge]

Atheon can literally erase u

only in VoG

yes

Can we simply understand the fact that

RHULK

Turned Xita

Mother of the Worm Gods

into a fucking generator

[dim minnow]

The most likely answer is they created each other

[sick yew]

What is this? Some kind of Perfect Paradox?

[cloud glacier]

what the heck is a Radial Mast

[nimble cloud]

Did you play the Lightfall campaign?

[sick yew]

Its a thing that suppresses our light among other things

(and Stasis too because why not)

Like a Paracausal jammer of sorts

[cloud glacier]

I’m playing through it rn

which you would know if you were in game

all the game is telling me at this stage is that it’s some kind of Light artifact thing

[dim minnow]

you're thinking of something else

the Radial Mast itself isn't really explained fully, but what we know is that it is meant to establish a link between the Veil and Traveler without the Witness needing to do it itself

it is possible it was an artifact from the time before the precursors became the Witness

a sort of gift from the Traveler, or something made from the Traveler's gifts

[sick yew]

But didnt it like also do the whole paracausal suppression thing?

Or was that only the little thingies that look similar ish

[dim minnow]

it was the smaller things that you can destroy with Strand

[sick yew]

Yeah I kinda assumed those were like mini radial masts

[dim minnow]

maybe derived from the same tech

perhaps the smaller devices interfere with the frequency of our Light (as well as Stasis somehow)

[hard sigil]

my interpretation was like. it's a paracausal antenna

because the witness was unable to physically connect the veil to the traveller it needed an adaptor, and after it's destruction it used the link between ghost and the traveller to fulfil that purposeq

[sick yew]

The legendary paracausal frequencies!!

[blazing wasp]

the paracausal radiohost on the paracausal frequency

[sick yew]

I mean we do know that paracausal frequencies are a thing in some way

Cause the Vex were able to suppress Saint that way

[blazing wasp]

something something microwaves with water

[fluid peak]

You're listening to Paracausal FM, this isn't your vanguard's station

[dim minnow]

Destiny 2 OST: Be Brave starts playing

[fluid peak]

I wonder if imagine dragons survived the collapse

[sick yew]

Hope for the Future

[blazing wasp]

ghost chitter sound
"You're now listening to"
silence and squall sound
"107"
hive shrieker alert
"REAL PARACAUSALITY FM"
nova bomb explosion
"Where we play nothing but paracausality, paracausality, and more paracausality"
winters wrath activation
shatter sound
"This aint your vanguards station"
Hope for the future - Paul mccartney starts playing

[fluid peak]

If we were in media that'd be pinned

[blazing wasp]

yknow i might try to do a voiceover where i edit in these noises in if requested

[sick yew]

Ask Mael he loves to do that shit aswell

[blazing wasp]

shit mael would honest to god be a perfect fit

i know how id edit in those sounds using a clipping functionality and frankensteining some clips, then exporting it to an MP4, i would only need mael's voiceline

[blazing wasp]

do you think i could bribe mael to enthusiastically do the voices for this

im gonna try giving it a shot anyway

i will go home and record

[trim grotto]

huh what

i was summoned

[sick yew]

Do this @trim grotto

[trim grotto]

pfff haha right
not sure if my accent lends itself to that but it does sound like fun

[sick yew]

I wont judge you as harshly as I usually do dw

[trim grotto]

haha well remind me about it tomorrow

[sick yew]

-remindme 24h tell Mael to do the funny

[candid inlet]

Set a reminder in 1 day from now (<t:1761128429:f>)
View reminders with the reminders command

[sick yew]

Done

[cloud glacier]

as of the Downfall mission the Veil is still just an ambiguous artifact thing

[sick yew]

We actually know the Veil pretty well these days

But back then it was a lot more mysterious

[cloud glacier]

I mean yea but like even at the third mission of Lightfall the game still says nothing

[trim grotto]

That's kind of an "entire campaign" issue. It's one of the primary complaints regarding Lightfall's story.
The Veil was largely explained post campaign in a series of research attempts by Osiris and Nimbus. It'll be fully available to you once you're done.

[cloud glacier]

so I’ve heard at least one of the quests came from Deep

[trim grotto]

Ah, sort of. There was a Witness origin story cutscene during Deep which involved the Veil, but we have that on hand.

[cloud glacier]

Osiris really pulled a “I don’t have time to explain why I don’t have time to explain.”

[trim grotto]

To be fair, Osiris didn't actually know. He knew there was an artifact, he knew it was powerful. All he got was absorbed from Savathûn's mind during the Savasiris year, and it was vague and unclear. Sort of like the Speaker trying to parse the messages of the Traveler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAIpmG9-iLs

[blazing wasp]

Incredibly scuffed, sound was messed up, and i couldnt make myself sound enthusiastic enough, but its an attempt (had to replace some sounds like shrieker to omnigul)

[trim grotto]

paracausality
what a trip

[river surge]

I just read something funny

did Oryx actually came to Riven

and they both laughed and Oryx took Riven

like that easily

[ember storm]

well he invaded the dreaming city

stumbled upon riven and the two had a short convo

[river surge]

Thats actually funny

[ember storm]

she managed to trick him into wishing to take her which let her retain her sense of self

[river surge]

Oryx actually felit for that

[ember storm]

i mean he'd never met an ahamkara before and had no reason to believe it wouldn't work

[river surge]

True

One more question

Does Petras run influence the games lore in a way ?

[ember storm]

eh

no

[slim girder]

He did know of them tho. They were mentioned in the books of sorrow at one point. Even said he'd have them put in cages

[river surge]

Probably never worked with one tho

[candid inlet]

Reminder for @sick yew

Reminder from YAGPDB

tell Mael to do the funny

[sick yew]

@trim grotto do it

[trim grotto]

ah fuck i forgot
okay it's like 11PM i need to do it during normal hours i'll set my own reminder for after work lmao

[blazing wasp]

you only need to do the voice stuff (if you still wish to do it), the other stuff i can fix

[fervent sandal]

was there ever an in game reason as to why we got ice breaker from vespers host?

[hard sigil]

if the lore tab is anything to go by, no

[fervent sandal]

gotcha

[sick yew]

They dont always give reprised exotics no real reason as to why they're back

Since they canonically still exists

[hard sigil]

in this case it's literally one line in the lore tab saying that the schematic for ice breaker was stolen and then replicated after its ban

[sick yew]

Ik they tried to sorta imply some stuff was lost because bla bla the red legion blew up our armory and storage during the Red War but that doesnt really solve it either

[slow berry]

the d1 icebreakers are reconstructed from the stolen blueprints and it was a collaboration between various foundries and the Vanguard

the D2 icebreaker is the actual factual Hakke prototype from the Golden Age

[dim minnow]

maybe have Heretical Omen or a different track with similar vibes playing in the background

make it feel authentic

[empty trout]

Has Drifter ever eaten anyone of the Human race before, or is that the one line he refuses to cross when it comes to cuisine?

[dim minnow]

not as far as we know

[dapper moss]

drifter eats other races?

[dim minnow]

He ate Hive eyes at one point

I think he ate Eliksni as well

might have tried Cabal, but didn't like it due to its toughness

[dapper moss]

beast

[blazing wasp]

hasnt tried scorn yet though!

[dapper moss]

i wouldnt

rhats like

rotting eliksni meat

[trim grotto]

Pretty sure he tried himself at one point, if that counts. But, no, nothing has suggested such otherwise.

[jagged badge]

For further context, that was a pretty desperate move to attempt to prevent starvation in the Dark Age iirc so

[trim grotto]

i bestow a gift, with a choice of variation

[blazing wasp]

:O

i dont have my headset on me, i must check

gimme like 3 hours

[trim grotto]

and now i must check out the helldivers patch news haha

[sick yew]

Perfect

Another banger from the lore man himself

[blazing wasp]

didnt end on "this aint your vanguards station" but i can fix that DW

this is great i will edit when i get home

[trim grotto]

It is in there I just tacked on the extra bit on the end for a choice between two Paracausality versions

[sick yew]

What a service
Bro even gives you multiple versions

[blazing wasp]

ah

right yes

when i get home i'll isolate each one and chuck in the stuff

[slim girder]

He sounds like he wants to try vex. Even describes their radiolaria housing as a "creamy centre" if he can eat hive eyes I'm sure he could find a way to ingest radiolaria

[vital linden]

is the witness kinda weak or, is the guardian just that strong, just did final shape campaign and im like, wait how did we even wound it, idk it's like the build up to the witness felt like it was this mountain of a villain and then oh no it's wounded now by one dude or something like what, is the witness like palpatine and the guardian is like luke skywalker or something ?

[dim minnow]

The properties of the Pale Heart along with our own Paracausal powers including the newly discovered Prismatic gave us the means to hurt the Witness

Of course, we also put a lot of work into actually figuring out how to do so as well

With Targe having to sacrifice itself so Zavala can tell us how to unmake it

[earnest locust]

I just realized the praxic order was mentioned in revenant by spider, though it was a very small mention. The device we used to free Eramis from prison was actually stolen by spider from the Praxic order. A bit of foreshadowing in my opinion.

[slim girder]

That's only part of how it happened. After the campaign the raid would involve cutting it off from the traveler and then after that it took us, the whole coalition and our ghosts to truly unmake it.

[jagged badge]

The campaign explains how we’re able to wound it. We discover the dissenters, voices in the Witness who no longer agree with its goals. They give us the means to find them in Darkness and destroy them in order to undo their fusion into the Witness. To destroy them, we have to use a sword of Light given directly to us from the Traveler

Destroying the dissenters harms the Witness from within because that’s our only way of beating it. We couldn’t do it ourselves from just our own pure strength

I thought Final Shape was very smart in that way, making us able to defeat the Witness without making it so we just become stronger than it or something

[vital linden]

why cant the witness stop the dissenters from guiding us to destroy them ?

also why cant the traveler just kill the dissenters itself, why does it ask us to help it, is the guardian actually as powerful as the traveler ? what is going on idk destiny 2 story powerscaling makes no sense

[slim girder]

It did try to stop the dissenters. We were able to find them and they told us. They also told zavala when he did as they asked and gave himself to darkness. As for the traveler doing the job itself, at the time it was being tortured and picked apart by the witness. So that light sword it gives us is it reaching out to help us save it.

In the lore for the ergo sum sword you can actually read about what the traveler is thinking

[slow berry]

The Traveler was also actively preventing and reverting the Final Shape the entire time as well

During the raid, you have minutes in each encounter before the Final Shape happens, and that bit of time is only because the Traveler is trying to stop it

[slim girder]

Happened in the intro as well.

City "finalised" and then it reverted back

[slow berry]

Also in general powerscaling makes no sense because thats just now how stories work

Even if you want to take the Sword Logic as a thing where you defeat something = you're stronger than what you defeat, that's just hive magic, not an actual law of the universe

A major ongoing theme in Destiny is the idea that a coordinated, collaborative effort can achieve things sheer power can't do

[vital linden]

why doesnt the witness just kill us all before going to the traveler, is he dumb

[slow berry]

he's tryna do the final shape

during the campaign it only stops to acknowledge us when it realizes we're approaching the altar it was created in (and isn't even there), then rages against us when we actually harm it, exasperated that we would actually oppose salvation to that extent

During the raid, it simply doesn't give a fuck about the raid team until the damage phase

It attempts to finalize the fireteam momentarily during Verity, which the game notes as markedly important (The Witness notices your efforts), and vaguely attempts to fool you into giving up, but then during the actual raid fight the mechanic is interrupting it enough that it has no option but to stop shape finalization and focus in trying to kill you

It's like if you were trying to chop down a tree and a bunch of ants are trying to stop you

you cant exactly be expected to go and worry about every little bug

[vital linden]

how does ants kill the witness

[dim minnow]

You know that one scene from Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

[vital linden]

so we defeated the witness by having 10 million people fighting him ?

anyways what's edge of fate about

[ember storm]

indirectly yeah

that's what the entire opening cutscene was about

and also the raid

and the final campaign mission

[slow berry]

the ants climb inside its mind by physically materializing it through the combination of darkness and light and unmaking it from the inside out

[vital linden]

idk i havent done the raid yet

[strong flint]

Is there any lore for the Destiny logo?

[jagged badge]

Nope!

We see it on the Speaker’s design and we see it on the footprint of the Ares One crew’s boots but

No other lore/explanation/mention

[slow berry]

we know its called the tricorn

[hard sigil]

it's amazing that the first year we have someone in the cast who can actually explain to glint and eido what Halloween is, it's also the year with zero new lore for the event

[slim girder]

We receive a distress signal from kepler and we are briefed by ikora about a singularity (black hole) forming

Won't spoil anything but this is actually an "invitation" from the nine

EoF is the first expansion in what's being called the fate saga

[slim girder]

So if astrea finds what's left of soteria on neptune who we know possesses vex prediction tech then i wonder if both of them could possibly become a new pair of warminds. Maybe not to the same extent as rasputin with control over every part of his network including the main core on mars but it does look like they're setting up something the background.

A pseudo warmind that along with it's sister can be an ally armed with vex prediction tech that could possbly help us prepare for the future as rasputin tried to do after soteria predicted the black fleet approaching

[vital linden]

is renegades part of that

[slim girder]

Yes. Drifter believes the nine are involved with what's going on on mars and this new underground empire

Not to mention we have a new dredgen to investigate.

[river surge]

Dredgen

So dreadgens are guardians that turned dark

Okay this expansion will be fucking good

I hope Bungie will deliver that peak narative like they always did

WAIT

This actually makes sense

Dredgens are titles correct?

Or am I trippin?

[jagged badge]

Ehhh

[slim girder]

Yes. Tho you saying dredgens are guardians who turned dark is half true.
Dredgens can be guardians who have gone rogue and but generally a dredgen is guardian who dabbles in darker powers and morality but still generally are on the good side.

[river surge]

Even better

I love this

[jagged badge]

The people that called themselves Dredgens are mostly just kinda edgy. They were kept an eye on by Shin in case they were to fall into actual bad shit but

They kinda just did edgy stuff and made up edgy names for themselves

[slim girder]

Again dabbling in dark stuff in pursuit of power but never going completely over the edge

Like using a thorn replica for it's corrosive and hungry power. Which generally would be frowned upon and in the case of the praxic order, make you an straight up enemy to them

[river surge]

I kinda see this like in Star Wars with sith

Jedi that turned rogue

And stuff

So I make a connection to understand better

Now idk if its right or even makes sense to say that

[slim girder]

Well we still don't know anything about this new dredgen other than their name. So it's all speculation.

[river surge]

Oh

then I might be wrong

[slim girder]

And dredgen as a title has different extents.
The dredgens of gambit and the dredgens that made up the shadows of yor weren't TRUE dredgens if that makes sense.
A true dredgen would be someone very similar to the original dredgen yor

A guardian completely changed by darker powers

[trim grotto]

To clarify a bit, the meaning of the title shifted over time. We personally saw to that, for example. Reclaimed the title from the power hungry and now use it ourselves.

[slim girder]

This new dredgen "dredgen bael" seems to have taken a different approach to it but we have yet to see anything about it. They are holding a ghost in their hand in the marketing so some people thought this might be a ghost hunter talked about in the lore named Cyrell

[ember storm]

Tbh I don’t really like having to put characters like that in groups

[slow berry]

i kinda like that its like

anyone just calls themselves dredgen

because rather than it being "oh the dredgens are this" it's more like "why do different people call themselves dredgen"

[ember storm]

I just feel like Cyrell would be way too invested in his own stuff to care enough to label himself

But also he should be called Dredgen Aykroyd

[river surge]

Who was better overall as a story wise narative villain

Oryx or The Witness?

Personally I liked Oryx so much I wanted to buy a plush or figurine with him

[cursive sedge]

what is that

[river surge]

A piece of The Traveler

That was shot down during The Collapse

And a secret to get to The Galaxy Pools

✌️

[cursive sedge]

thats why i was there to begin with lol

but failed miserably

[river surge]

Yeah its pretty difficult to reach it

[river surge]

I also have a theory that The Traveler got corrupted by the darkness and that part peeled off

[jagged badge]

Not sure about “shot down”. The Pyramids don’t really shoot weapons like that

[river surge]

.

[ember storm]

Isn’t the general consensus more like it was intentionally jettisoned off

[dim minnow]

it seemed that during the Collapse, the shard was cast away likely due to being damaged/corrupted

as seen with how the land around the Shard looked like a cliche spooky forest

[slim girder]

You are correct.
Micah spoke about this when we gathered those "mini travelers" around the pale heart.
It was corrupted and then shed a part of itself

[slow berry]

it got mold on it

[dim minnow]

@fringe lantern
MARKED FOR NEGATION

[frigid sparrow]

Hm.. it's green like marathon... How does this impact the story?

[slim girder]

Don't click sketchy links kids

<@&1019968306733654157>

[dense pike]

iusemolly has been banned!

[night rock]

slowzo @noble shard

[noble shard]

i was first on my screen sir

but i also forgot to add the extra part

[dim minnow]

Calc is lacking fr

[fringe lantern]

i was actually here first but i decided to let other mods handle it

[river surge]

So the Traveler actually spoke to Rhulk

But didnt spoke to any of us

[dim minnow]

it did send us a vision at the start of the Red War after Ghaul threw us off of his ship

[river surge]

I mean directly speaking

[sick yew]

The traveler has no va if that's what youre wondering

[dim minnow]

oh wait actually

back in Forsaken, in the mission where we unlock our first "middle tree" (this was before Subclass 2.0), the Traveler actually did speak using quotes from other characters

[little relic]

Can you guys start talking about ‘The Ghoul’ as if it’s a real character in Destiny and kind of imply it’s another name for The Traveller?

I need to win a bet.

[slim girder]

Don't even know who this "ghoul" is

[little relic]

Thank you

[little relic]

Uh. They totally exist. The Ghoul right guys???

[slim girder]

Ghoul as is the title from ghosts of the deep

[dim minnow]

aren't there enemies in the Haunted Altar called "Greedy Ghouls"?

[little relic]

I’m an idiot I screenshotted your message including my own message and sent it.

I’ve lost

Thanks tho.

[cursive night]

heya all , do we have any knowledge/lore about all the werid fungal/moldy matter on kepler ? it seem signifiant to the setting but aside from a breif mention about it being used to generate power i didn't remember any info being given ?

[sick yew]

I dont recall it being really mentioned but it might just be a native wildlife on Kepler

[slim girder]

It's coalesced dark matter mixed with ether corrupted by that dark matter. You can see all over the house of exlies and we can use it for mattermorph

[sick yew]

Oh its not native then?

[slim girder]

No.

It's a byproduct of the dark matter shenaigans happening on kepler

[cursive night]

ha ty , so more a setpiece that look cool vaguely lore justified rather than an important plotpoint , ty . While i have loremaster's attention , is it explained how the final boss of eof campaing could "mindcontrol" or talk from other fallen ? dark matter shenanigans agian?

[slim girder]

Not really. But it's very similar to the corruption we saw in vespers host were their minds bodies are given and then inhabited by one mind. Whether it was III who they refer to as "the giver" who gave them that ability or not is yet to be seen

[cursive night]

ho yea right , with that "white captain" subplot

[slim girder]

But we can confirm dark matter infected ether is how the house of exiles ended up how they did

And with the kell of that house obviously getting the most ether in their house i'd assume this is what caused that whole minds and bodies as one change and crazy prophecy stuff within them

[cursive night]

i guess the "hive mind" situation on vesper host leading to the creation of the relay giving us Lodi message , and an other faction of fallen with similar ability isn't too disconnected after all.

with what you said i can see the logic , kinda . Dark matter seem to coalesc into fungal/mycelial matter ( fungus sometime having mycelial network spanning VERY large area while remaining interconnected) and fallen consuming dark matter tainted ether being able to make mind network

wasn't there a bit of lore about the fallen on vesper host also modify the servitor with tech they found up there to have an unlimited source , maybe it also got tainted by dark matter this way. Damn kinda make sense. Ty for filling some of the gap i had ,i appreciate it.

[slim girder]

That's just how servitors work normally. Matter in, ether out. Raeniks however in vespers host was doing this and an much more unstable rate to point it even tries to intergrate us into it if you remembar the intergration debuff when you get spotted by it

It was grabbing anything it could find to pump out ether including other servitors

[cursive night]

you are correct , but i think i remember dialogue , maybe from the armor or other lore tab that had a different tone than juts making them unstable , maybe i'm reading too much into it and trying to link it with the weird situation in vesper and the link with EOF , but when the nine are involved logic and link between event aren't really clear anyway.

I do hope we get more explaination in the next expansion about all that , because as it stand i feel EOF dosn't really give any answer ( it is the start of a new saga i know , but still i want more XD)

[slim girder]

Yeah EoF was the start of this saga and it was expected we weren't going to get all the answers. But that was the point because after final shape destiny's universe did feel a bit "solved" but now we have new things to talk about

Renegades is set on mars and drifter believes the nine are involved so we'll probably be learning more about IV in that expansion as they are the member of the nine tied to mars

[cursive night]

yea the only "original" question we still don't have an answer are the origin of the traveler ( and by extansion the veil) , celestial golfball was chilling on the witness original planet and that's it for that.

is 4 in the inner or outer orbit of the nine ? he's the one talking by giving order in an angry tone no? i don't remember if he is aligned with us or not.

[cursive night]

ho i tought it was a starwars spinoff extansion XD

[slim girder]

4 is in the inner orbits

[slim girder]

No renegades is def something very based on star wars but will still be an original destiny story

[cursive night]

so real talk is a wookie wielding ace of spade shooting a vex that is being backed by vador canon?

[slim girder]

No

[cursive night]

damn ,

so no golden gun headshot on an ewok , my day is ruined

[river surge]

I just realised something

The Veil was only used for wrong things

[slim girder]

Powering a cities defence network with it is wrong?

The neomuni basically rely on it for everything

[river surge]

But is it possible to bypass and hack the system?

[slim girder]

Not for us but the system is subject to vex incursions every now and again.
Although the neomuni knew this pretty well when using and now it's more like server maintenance to them when keeping vex out

[river surge]

But again outside the Neomuna The Veil was pretty much used like an indirect weapon to end the universe

[slim girder]

It's not really a weapon more a "key" in a way it seems. Linking the traveler and the veil opens the way to the pale heart.
But it's also been said by Osiris and that at one point the traveler and veil were a single being

We have no idea what that might have looked like though

[river surge]

Hmm

Now that u mentioned it

It makes no sense

Can they change size?

Or has it even been implied or anything that the Traveler can change size or The Veil in general?

Cause theres no way The Veil couldve been attached to the Traveler, The Traveler is hundred times bigger than The Veil

[slim girder]

We don't know. That's still a big mystery with both of these cosmic entities.
The "roots" of the veil definitely look like they were supposed to be attached to the traveler.
But we don't know exactly how the process looked or what they looked like as one either

[ember storm]

It’s worth noting that the “pure” version of the pale heart without any of our manifested memories was just an expanse of light and roots

Trees of silver wings also share the same aesthetic

[little relic]

Ladies and gents, I think you’re forgetting about how

The Ghoul is a very important part of the trees of silver wings and how

It connects very closely with the pale heart.

[vital lodge]

aight how old is Eva

[dim minnow]

Destiny does not do well with exact dates and such

so we don't really know exact age

[slim girder]

Lodi calling this out and being mad we didn't write the date down when the collapse happened

[river surge]

Could that place very well be the place where Ghosts are born

or I might be stretching it

Cause I have heard something about the womb or something

basically at the center of the Traveler

[slim girder]

Could be. Not a crazy assumption

[river surge]

Well The Traveler didnt create any new ghost correct?

Could be

[silk pulsar]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vlnqGNXXSGA&si=Q76FqcZrh6L2FDzl

Great video on sundered doctrine

[blazing wasp]

Disturbing?

[silk pulsar]

The implication that savathun knows you yes YOU, the person behind the screen and wants you dead can be taken as disturbing. Also the fact that the exotic literally wild it self in to reality and the dead worm carcasses can be taken as disturbing lore

[slow berry]

that's been a thing (not limited to savathûn) for a good while now fwiw, not just sundered

[trim grotto]

How was the recording by the by

[blazing wasp]

fuck

i forgot it

[trim grotto]

silly billy

[slim girder]

Savathun has done 4th wall breaks WELL before this dungeon.
She even took over the twid (Twab at the time) back during forsaken when a player attempted to follow the truth to power lore book and beat the shattered throne at 999 solo

[fluid peak]

She also took over the D2 twitter account briefly and told a game journalist to touch grass

[slim girder]

Paul tassi still hasn't recovered

[little relic]

That’s so funny because of the implications to The Ghoul. I can’t wait for more lore drops.

[jagged badge]

The what

[little relic]

The Ghoul.

?

[jagged badge]

I can read, thanks

That doesn’t actually elaborate or enlighten me at all

[little relic]

Oh. I wasn't sure if you want me to elaborate on the implications or The Ghoul.

Sorry.

[jagged badge]

Oh my bad

[little relic]

The implications go kinda crazy because The Ghoul was foreshadowed all the way in Destiny 1 and it's only now they're bringing it back up.

[jagged badge]

I’m tired and that was unnecessarily curt of me, reading that back

[little relic]

All good!

[jagged badge]

What is this? I searched “the ghoul” on Ishtar but the only hit I got was Trinity Ghoul

Never mind

[little relic]

So The Ghoul is actua-

oh

[little relic]

Wait I'm so confused.

[slow berry]

theyre trying to make it a joke for a friend on a different server iirc

[ember storm]

[slim girder]

A bet as they put it the first time

[ember storm]

man i really thought this was a banger did nobody like it

i must be losing my touch

[trim grotto]

Can't say I get the joke to be honest

[ember storm]

Dan Aykroyd starred in the original Ghostbusters and is also weirdly obsessed with spiritual sci-fi stuff

It’s perfect

[celest pendant]

Did clovis bray make the exo or did the fallen make the exo?

And are the exo alive

[dim minnow]

Clovis invented Exos

[dim minnow]

Technically yeah, they are human minds in a completely robotic body given human needs

[eager trout]

Humans 2.0; better than humans in some ways but with more weaknesses.

[celest pendant]

And the big exo that we get lament from that one is "AI" ? Or clove bray mind in the exo

[celest pendant]

Whats there weakeness

[celest pendant]

Yeh i mean i guess they're alive because the traveler revives some of them into guardians

So they must have life energy

[hard sigil]

that is an AI based on a brain scan of Clovis, essentially and functionally a clone

as told through the Lament's quest, the "real" Clovis is actually our friend and gunsmith Banshee. he's just been reset so many times he's become a different person entirely

[jagged badge]

I mean, that wasn’t really because of the resets honestly

Clovis-1 told the Clovis AI to piss off from the start, and fought with every one of his lives in the Vex-Exo war

For his final reset, he had the name Banshee imprinted in him instead and his memories of Clovis removed

[hard sigil]

teeechnically becoming clovis-1 is also a kind of a reset. maybe. kinda.

[jagged badge]

My point is it’s not because of quantity of resets at all

He diverged from what Clovis envisioned for himself from the very start

[hard sigil]

yeah

[slim girder]

Canonically light and dark energy is "wet" and poses a slipping hazard.

[eager trout]

Vex, the Veil, having to be memory wiped regularly so they don't go crazy.

[eager trout]

They just didn't have a proper sign for it

[river surge]

I wonder what happens if a normal human steps on it

like if ur not a lightbearer

in general

and ur a simple human and u touch it what would happend?

My bet is that the humans hand will melt

[fluid peak]

Probably nothing

[little relic]

You probably become an entity similar to The Ghoul.

[hazy veldt]

can somebody make a brief explanation of lore

of desert perpetual

including epic raid

[slim girder]

The vex/ conductor maya are trying to digitise the area inside the singularity because it would enable them to effect timelines on a massively wider scale using dark matter.
We also help 2 copies of maya and chioma find each other and possibly start mapping the entire vex network.

[hazy veldt]

and koregos is vex mind tasked with digitalisation

sounds clusterfuck complicated but i am grateful

[ember storm]

Man I really am in a rut

Maybe I should explode

[jagged badge]

I knew the name but I don’t know anything about the guy tbh

Mael on the other hand probably doesn’t know a single actor’s name I swear 😭

[ember storm]

It was mainly just for the ghostbuster pun but yeah he has. Opinions on sci-fi

He has a brand of [adult beverage] made in the shape of crystal skulls and the advertisement video takes him like 5 minutes to even mention the type of drink he just goes on an actual rant about the crystal skulls

Either way I don’t really have any intention to play renegades so I’ll just wait and see if this channel has a meltdown or not

[ember storm]

boy i am killing it today

[river surge]

[hard sigil]

The Ghoul will either become a really good inside joke or be forgotten in a month

[river surge]

The Ghoul is Destinys salvation

[calm granite]

Shoulda pinned it for posterity

[river surge]

The Ghoul is the only entity that The Witness wouldnt be able to reshape cause it was already perfect

[slim girder]

Was looking at some lore on renegades and then going through the vidoc and expansion descriptions to see if anything matched up.
So the "weapon" the cabal are making is called nightfall station. And something called a cosmic incubator is of importance.
Went back through the Vidoc and noticed this scene with drifter encased in what I'm assuming is a stasis shard. What if this is the cosmic incubator? Would make sense since it's stasis and drifter is a lightbearer even though we haven't seen him use light yet. Cabal have an understanding in containing both light and dark energy it seems so maybe this is supposed be a "guardian cell" of sorts.

[dim minnow]

I... doubt it

[little relic]

Pretty sure Suvnaith is jealous of The Ghoul because of its perfection. Funny how she references The Ghoul with spite.

Some people speculate The Ghoul is actually one of The Nine. But I don’t really agree with them.

In my personal opinion The Ghoul is one of the ‘other’ sources of Light. Except it’s much more neutral and subtle than The Traveller.

[slim girder]

Just a theory is all. It's clear the new cabal want his haul so maybe this is where he is stored until he talks or something. Cabal have tech made to kill guardians but here they're simply freezing him because without him they won't get anywhere

[little relic]

Do you think their tech is able to kill The Ghoul?

[slim girder]

Prolly not

[little relic]

Fascinating.

[hard sigil]

fairly certain that this is meant to be the cosmic incubator, as it's implied to be a large part of nightfall station. My guess, based off the name, is that it is a Nine-sourced design meant to enact one of the outer's plans. Probably a planet cracker/terraforming tool meant to seperate a member from it's gravity well. or maybe create a new member to replace III and break the stalemate (it is an incubator after all)

the carbonite treatment is probably something a lot more minor

[slim girder]

I'm wondering if this is actually going to be used to possibly kill another member of the nine.
IV did say they weren't going to be playing by the rules after IIIs death so maybe trying to kill one of the out orbits.
There's also a theory this could be used to make a black hole (singularity) as well just like we encountered on kepler as that is what some of the nine need to separate themselves from their need for our existence

[hard sigil]

I'm just not sure why you would call a weapon an incubator is all. that's like. the opposite of a weapon

[blazing wasp]

It incubates bullet

[slim girder]

I don't think it is what the weapon is called but more the power source.
It's why I brought up drifter being encased in stasis shards. He's being incubated inside of it and as a lightbearer, someone who can wield cosmic powers it kind of fits.
However it could also be a member of the nine powering this incubator in some way. Like maybe some dark matter directly from a member of the nine is being used

[hard sigil]

oh like a paracausal battery

that's a neat idea

[slim girder]

These new cabal want the haul as well so maybe that's the "battery" they're looking for

At the start of the Vidoc you can see drifter being chased by a flagship. Don't think they'd expend that kinda force for one dude unless he had something of massive importance.

[ember storm]

Wait is that drifter how the fuck did he get there

[hard sigil]

he needed to chill out

[slow berry]

he's been looking into the stuff on mars as we speak

anyway i also subscribe to it being a way to create a member of the nine

IV is right next to the asteroid belt so maybe they're tryna mash it all up and create 0

[cedar tinsel]

I remember seeing something a long time ago about how the Fallen couldn't build more walkers and each one they have is left over from before the whirlwind and shipped across space to get here. Is that still true or can they manufacture them?

[blazing wasp]

its somewhat unlikely walkers predated the whirlwind

i may be very wrong on that but

before the whirlwind, im pretty sure the eliksni werent struggling much with conflict

[frigid sparrow]

they're likely manufactured. the scorn have their own modified versions of them, and house exile has their own on kepler despite the vast distance and their initial passivity.

[slim girder]

Chased and captured presumbly. Bungie did say we'd be "saving a friend whose past has caught up with him"

[slow berry]

probably sold out by the martian gangs

[hard sigil]

got told to ice him and took it the wrong way

[slim girder]

Can any star wars peeps tell me what carbonite treatment is like in that universe? Like are you alive if placed in carbonite?

I don't think drifter is dead inside the crystal ofc but i'm wondering about parallels is all

[hard sigil]

it's essentially just cryogenic freezing/suspended animation. the only risk of death is if something goes wrong in the freezing process, or is someone is frozen for a long time, hibernation sickness

[slim girder]

I always thought it was more heat based. I haven't seen the movies but i vaguely recall i think it was han solo being put into carbonite and i swear it was set up like he was being thrown into a a smelting chamber basically

[hard sigil]

it's gaseous carbon that is then flash frozen into a solid

the facility where Solo is frozen just takes place in a refinery for Tibanna gas, which uses carbonite for transport

[slim girder]

So it is basically like a smelting chamber but with a person frozen inside?

[river surge]

Yep

[ember storm]

also you can get pretty woozy/blind when you're eventually freed so

dunno if we get a drifter escort mission

maybe he gets to make a few jokes about eris

[slim girder]

Or maybe eris gets to call him popsicle from now on

[slow berry]

I hope we get some nice eris stuff in the dlc

Doesn't seem to be directly hive related but they did take the hive god of vengeance's boywife

[little relic]

I hope we get some more The Ghoul stuff in the dlc as well. I've been waiting for them to finally talk about The Ghoul.

<3

Imagine seeing The Ghoul after all that foreshadowing. It's going to be peak.

[slow berry]

Drifter continuously getting into Situations that end up with his wife getting vengeance tithes from getting revenger on people would be funny i think

eris getting +1 to all stats after not tipping at MisraakDonalds because they forgot drifter asked for no pickles

[grizzled zinc]

fucking misraakdonalds

[slim girder]

There is lore from someone who is being enslaved to work on the cabals new weapon and they tried to get a message out to Eris.

[queen walrus]

I’d be excited for renegades if bungie made new lore assets for the praxic order instead of just lazily making them Jedi and using them as an excuse to have lightsabers

[jagged badge]

Lore assets?

[ember storm]

I’m seizing all your lore

You will be left with nothing

[slim girder]

Lore has assets?

Also even tho the praxic order is supposed be our version of the jedi the armour design i personally feel still fits within destiny.

[queen walrus]

lore/assets. They haven't had the order physically in game and the one time they do they are pulling all inspiration from star wars. It doesn't sit well with me. They dont have praxic blades, they have lightsabers. You wont meet a single person who will call them anything else.

I take that back we have the cormorant robe set, though im not sure on the specifics of that. Just saying its a shame they are finally going to go all in on adding Praxic Order stuff but it all has a stars wars vibe instead of being creative and unique.

[frigid sparrow]

Tbh it looks well within destiny's setting

Anyways put dagan gera in and he'd look like a side character awoken

Destiny 2 and star wars are already relatively similar in a lot of ways due to the fantasy sci fi space stuff, aesthetic choices are no different

[slim girder]

Destiny has already been said to be inspired by star wars. Like when we go to a dif planet we "jump" to it. Just like star wars or star trek

There are many similarites i could point out

[dim minnow]

you know, that one epsiode from Visions Volume 3 has some pretty Destiny-looking ships

[river surge]

Fun fact

This guy can regrow his arm with force

And can create force illusions

This mf literally was above every Jedi at their peak with those 2 feats alone

[dim minnow]

he did not regrow his arm

he did however use the force as a replacement for it

[river surge]

The arm was still visible after dying

Meaning it could be permanent

[river surge]

Actually he didnt but it was kinda permanent

But still that feat alone makes Dagan Gera above many Jedi

I mean technically, in Star Wars the biggest feat is to reach immortality

[slim girder]

Starkiller beats him ez

[river surge]

Not cannon

I could say abt Darth Vitiate

[little relic]

Who would The Ghoul in Destiny be compared to in Star Wars?

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/vaas-vaas-montenegro-far-cry3experience-unfunny-joke-gif-27333376

[trim grotto]

interesting point to make, Aspect of Bravery

[fluid peak]

The thing is, the alternative is that they make up a new faction who's been sitting on lightsabers this WHOLE TIME which I think would probably sit worse with a lot of people

[little relic]

Probably Father Mortis from the Clone Wars.

[fluid peak]

The Praxic order is a previously established group, and I don't think it's been said anywhere that the whole order is involved in the renegades stuff so there's still room for aunor to be an exception, not the rule

[little relic]

https://tenor.com/view/beat-a-dead-horse-silly-saying-quote-gif-5837915

The Ghoul.

[dim minnow]

thank you, Hunter Cryptarch

[river surge]

Darth Nihilus

[fervent sandal]

How was rasputin able to tell those scientist that they weren't in a simulation with certainty?

[slow berry]

The Vex goblin couldnt simulate Rasputin, so only the reality that had Rasputin was real and not a simulation

[vital linden]

why traveler give witch queen the light and revive her ?

[blazing wasp]

Simple

It didn't.

A ghost did

And no, that's not the same thing.

[vital linden]

so why did a ghost revive her ?

[blazing wasp]

Not confirmed iirc but a lot leads to this being planned ahead of time

Which is not even remotely surprising given that it's savathun

It even had a hive ghost shell

Doubt immaru was just wearing hive drip for shits and giggles.

[vital linden]

what does it mean when ikora said the hive were lied to

[fervent sandal]

Oh it couldn't? I didnt know that wow

[jagged badge]

The Witness deceived the Hive though the worm familiar Savathûn spoke to. It told them the Traveler was responsible for an impending cataclysm, and to seek salvation from the Deep, leading them to the Worm Gods, where they took the pact and transformed into the Hive

[vital linden]

was teh hive good before or what ?

[jagged badge]

They were just a normal species on a pretty shitty world, just surviving

The Traveler intended to uplift them. The Witness got there first and turned them into the Hive and turned them against the Traveler

Leading to the eons of genocide the Hive proceeded to enact

[vital linden]

so does savathun know this ? why she still evil, or she just evil now i guess idk

[frigid sparrow]

because when she got the light, she wanted to keep it all for herself. her plan in witch queen was to suspend the traveler within her throne world to keep it safe from the witness, whilst also cutting it off from our realm

we're still simply tools to her and her grander motivations

in risen, she wanted her brood to use guardian light to create a super weapon on the moon
in plunder, she wanted the relics of nezarec for unknown purposes
in gotd, she wanted to resurrect oryx
in witch, she wanted xivu to (respectfully) get the fuck out of her throne world since they were playing for opposite teams
in heresy, she wanted to show the echo of navigation the lie they were told and keep it safe with her

she's always been self-serving

[vital linden]

so even if the traveler got to her first she would still be bad ?

[frigid sparrow]

I mean, there's no telling how the krill civilization would go in that case

the witness would eventually find them so it'd either wipe them out or leave them hopeless with nothing but vengeance like the eliksni

[slow berry]

Ghosts of the Deep wasn't her iirc, it was some of her leadership getting anxious bc she was dead at the time i think

[frigid sparrow]

tbh gotd just annoys me because if it's not her I feel it kind of undermines luzaku's independence

but it's also not like savvy every speaks about it ever

and also if she did the funny haha uldren memory thing I don't know how that would go with a recently risen oryx

cus like, her brood should know about the whole memory loss thing since she had some peeps tell her about her identity and plans after being risen

[little relic]

To appease The Ghoul.

[fluid peak]

Yeah that's sort of the point of her character and a key part of the whole light and dark saga - the power you wield is irrelevant to your moral standing, and your choices define who you are

[vital linden]

what ghoul

[fluid peak]

The Ghoul.

[hard sigil]

I mean if she didn't get her memory back through the high coven things might've played out different

but it was all so meticulously planned I doubt there could have been a different outcome

[jagged badge]

They’re just trolling, ignore it

[rapid quartz]

anyone else feel as though the story is being set up for us to become the new Taken King?

im feeling that way rn

[slim girder]

Gotd was really just a desperate attempt by the lucent brood to get a leader again. Their original one was "dead" for a long time after all.
But in that desperation I think they failed to think that Oryx would have been livid to be brought back by a ghost.
Like I bet money Oryx would have seppuku'd himself once he found out who he was before

[slim girder]

The "lord of every nothing" is currently what we believe will take up that mantle as we learned in heresy

They're the one that was willed into existence by the takens need for a leader and they possess abilities to carve paths on the same level as the winnower

[rapid quartz]

yes this is fascinating. brother has the means to be something far worse than oryx

but my point is- as oryx has hinted, its probably something thats inevitable. even if we kill the new god a new one will just take the mantle

[sick yew]

As it tends to go in the Destiny universe

[slim girder]

Toland said this as well. It's just one of destinys rules of the universe.
Something must lead the taken, and if no one will step up to it then something will be made to do it which is exactly what happened

The taken literally said "fine we'll do it ourselves" and managed to will a whole new being into existence

The eyes, the tentacles, the dire taken and suffocating terror all come from this new entity.
Major cthulhu vibes when I first saw all of it and I love it.

[rapid quartz]

i dont think it was wished into existence i think it was something that was banished. took advantage of the winnover weakness(probably during or after TFS) and came back into the picture

[slim girder]

There was no "winnower weakness"
There's lore showing the taken "chanting" what are called the songs of descent.
The lord of every nothing even comments on the fact that even if the taken are wiped out the deed is done and that it's alive.
It gave itself that title..

[hard sigil]

the winnower didn't really have any point of "weakness" at any point. it's just kinda hanging out. it's unclear whether it even has a physical form at all right now, or if it's literally just the sentient concept of antientropy

[dim minnow]

the Winnower was coping quite a bit after we killed the Witness for a little while, but it got over it when it figured that things would still end the way it wanted even if it takes billions more years

[hard sigil]

and the idea of a god being willed into existence by millions of beings who need a will to attach themselves to is a cooler concept than it already being a thing and just being woken up

[slim girder]

The winnower is patient. Yes it knows we are definitely a thorn in its side but it has full confidence things will always end up exactly as it sees the universe.

[dim minnow]

isn't that the plot of The Empty Man or something?

[hard sigil]

I think that's just a demon that gets summoned

[dim minnow]

iirc it was some cult using their combined will to manifest a person with his own tragic backstory into existence so he could be a vessel for some eldritch entity to enter into our world from

[hard sigil]

oh so like Alan Wake

[dim minnow]

who tf is Alan Wake

[hard sigil]

from the Remedy games

[dim minnow]

like I keep hearing that name like he's an incredibly popular horror game character

[hard sigil]

he's a writer that taps into a different dimension called the Dark Place, allowing him to change reality based on what he writes

it's a whole thing but he wrote himself into a horror story

[dim minnow]

feels kinda different from Empty Man

[rapid quartz]

fair enough, thanks for the insight

[sick yew]

Bro?
The Writer??

[hard sigil]

and so he lost the memory that everything he was experiencing was already written by himself, and in the game you can find pages of the manuscript, which foreshadows or directly is just the current events in gsme

[dim minnow]

legit all I knew about him was his name and he was some horror game character

[sick yew]

Dont tell me youve never seen this handsome man

[slim girder]

https://tenor.com/view/alan-wake-2-alan-wake-alan-wake-ii-dance-gif-18232154390330874923

[hard sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/alan-wake-dance-alan-wake-2-dancing-herald-of-darkness-gif-13281546075398170230

[sick yew]

Actual banger song

[hard sigil]

horror game btw

[sick yew]

Remedy cant help but cook every time they work together with Poets of the Fall

[slim girder]

Love Alan wake.
Also love control with Jesse faden which is in the same universe

[hard sigil]

control 2 is gonna be so good

[sick yew]

Control is one of my favorite games conceptually of all time

Because it its a very very specific interest of mine

[slim girder]

Same. Absolutely loved control

[hard sigil]

amazing gameplay, setting and was a technical marvel

[slim girder]

The service weapon has to be one of my favourite in game tools ever

[sick yew]

Thank you to the big triangle for giving me gun™

[hard sigil]

they made like. a lossless texture scalar so every page with text is actually readable

[slim girder]

The whole facility felt like something out of SCP and I loved it.
A fridge that must always have eyes on it, a mirror that made you fight Essej, former an ex board member

My fav section though has to be when you get the radio from the janitor and get that insane song while fighting in a gauntlet of rooms

[slim elk]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CsmCoI5QJ3k&list=RDCsmCoI5QJ3k&start_radio=1&pp=ygUeYWxhbiB3YWtlIDIgaGVyYWxkIG9mIGRhcmtuZXNzoAcB

[sick yew]

I know SCP is likely the bigger inspiration but to me the Oldest House is the closest thing we have to the House on Ash Tree Lane from my favorite book of all time (House of Leaves) which I do know was another inspiration

Thats mainly why

[hard sigil]

it's literally an scp facility in the house of leaves

like pretty much 1:1

[sick yew]

House of Leaves is older than the whole SCP stick is it not?

Says here online SCP started around 2007

So if anything SCP took inspiration from HoL

[slim girder]

SCP didn't really take inspiration from things if that makes sense.
It started as a bunch of creepy stories based on different entities and then eventually a group of people pulled it all together to make the lore that all of these entities were actually housed inside this SCP facility

Those stories definitely take inspiration from many things but the foundation itself is really what they're all under

[sick yew]

My point was moreso that House of Leaves came first, my knowledge of SCP is very limited because oddly enough I never cared much for it

[hard sigil]

it's just a collection of independent writers who try to make things set in a vaguely connected universe

[sick yew]

I know its a collection of shit from a ton of people like an open writing project sort of thing and a few other random details

Yeah

Wait

[sick yew]

Were you referring to the house on ash tree lane as the house of leaves here?

[hard sigil]

yeah

[sick yew]

Ah I see now

[hard sigil]

it's funnier to me to refer to it as the title. like saying Minecraft Steve or whatever

[sick yew]

I dont wanna be the erm ackshually guy but I dont think you can refer to it as the House of Leaves but thats a discussion that could fill an entire library

[hard sigil]

I'm pretty sure I've got the domino box meme around here somewhere but it's not super relevant

[sick yew]

Or well you can probably make equally as many arguments for as against it
Shits fucking weird man

I love the book (its destroying me from the inside)

[hard sigil]

an inside that's slightly larger?

[sick yew]

Ever so slightly, until it becomes five and a half minutes long

cough

[hard sigil]

every time I think about it I get reminded of the Minotaur in lancer

which is just a direct reference

a mech that has more mechanics inside of its chassis than what should fit, and uses spatial folding technology to hold combatants in a metaphorical labyrinth

[sick yew]

The Minotaur my beloved

[hard sigil]

I love the flavour text in Lancer because it's like 50% technobabble and 50% Lovecraftian horror writing

Mechs built according to the Minotaur pattern group are interdictors: formidable machines meant to lock down and overload the systems of fast-moving targets. Disassembly by Union technicians has found that Minotaurs contain a huge quantity of interior systems, occupying more physical space than should be possible by several orders of magnitude. The mechanism by which these folded systems are printed is thus far unidentified, but likely related to the Goblin’s signature recursive weave.

[sick yew]

Funky shit aint it

Anyway gimme a sec I gotta ban Dova because he made the channel spiral severely off topic

@dim minnow come here homie

[grizzled zinc]

i wonder if osiris was gay pre-light or not

[trim grotto]

I... don't think that's something the Light would affect,

[grizzled zinc]

but can you prove that

an evil person can be naturally good post-rebirth via light so who’s to say sexuality can’t also be differently impacted by one’s life as a lightbearer

[sick yew]

It cant exactly be proven or disproven unless we get more guardians whom we also know pre resurrection as reference

[grizzled zinc]

true enough

[jagged badge]

That’s not how good and evil works and that’s not how sexuality works

Sexuality is innate. Good and evil is morality, influenced by so many different factors, mostly nurture I’d say

[slow berry]

the story actually has actively rejected this notion both ten years ago and just last year

people keep bringing it up but like

[jagged badge]

Uldren wasn’t evil because he was just always evil for example. Things happened to him throughout his life that pushed him down that path. Crow was reborn with a blank slate and new experiences imprinted upon him, shaping who he became

[slow berry]

the entire point is you don't

[frigid sparrow]

The entire point of heresy was that being the taken king is not a good thing and we denied the previous taken king's advances into trying to make us the taken king

[blazing wasp]

To throw my hat into this: We've had multiple indirect and direct conversations regarding how we're NOT going to be the next taken king

Toland had a whole crashout over how we dont wanna become the taken king

[sick yew]

Didnt we ourselves say that we dont wanna or sum

I vividly rememebr s omething from Heresy

[blazing wasp]

i dont think we said it with our own words

but we havent exactly been subtle about our rejection.

[sick yew]

Yeah something along those lines

[blazing wasp]

so blunt it puts hammers to shame.

[ember storm]

The tribute from Oryx’s death has been entirely consumed by Mara at this point and we’ve repeatedly denied taking up ownership of the taken

It just ain’t happening chief

[slim girder]

I find it very funny how we're essentially rage baiting the poor guy at this point.

[blazing wasp]

good

[slim girder]

Like he was fuming when we just pulled out our ghosts and dipped after kings fall

[frigid sparrow]

Toland's irrelevance to the plot will always annoy me he's so cool

Bungie please let the VI stuff be a red herring and have toland be the actual Lord of Every Nothing

SPIDER'S ACTUALLY INVOLVED YAYY

[slim girder]

Bro is destiny Jabba the hutt. Would be nuts not to have him in renegades

[frigid sparrow]

He had the teaser in one of the lore tabs recently but I was wondering if he'd have actual involvement or if it'd just be another revenant situation where he's just kinda there

[slim girder]

Nah he'd definitely be more involved this time around. Crime syndicates and black markets are exactly what he is made for as an eliksni pirate.

My guess is he'll be one of the vendors we go to along with all the other syndicates.
Or maybe he's the main character we interact with for the campaign and he introduces us to all of this new territory

[frigid sparrow]

There is a non-zero chance he dies

[grizzled zinc]

yeah i understand that but is it innate enough that when a person has no concept of their past life and is re-experiencing the world as a blank slate that it remains the case though?

[trim grotto]

Crow was still, in some ways, Uldren. Memory recovery aside, of course. They shared certain core aspects of their nature. The Techeuns said Zavala isn't far removed from his old life.
I wouldn't imagine this would change.

[grizzled zinc]

hm alright noted

[plucky spade]

Never understood why D2 vanilla wasnt a continuation of taken king. The whole point of the red war spiraled from the midnight coup along with the Skyburners siege on the dreadnought to forge/ learn about weapons of sorrow. Wouldve loved to see the red legion have hive based tech and perma-kill guardians. Just food for thought

[jagged badge]

They did

The Traveler cage was based on Hive stuff

[plucky spade]

I know

But it didnt seem to be executed properly

[trim grotto]

Well, the Psions developed that tech. The little Ghost cages. Nearly assassinated Zavala with it.
Then Crow had the bright idea to deflect the knife with his face

Classic Crow

[slim girder]

I think it was more he attempted to use a tiny hunter knife to stop what i'm assuming was a cabal gladiator cleaver. Psion went through the knife and knocked him over

[trim grotto]

Yes but then I can't make it into a joke you see

[slow berry]

it kinda was

it separated from it in some aspects bc they were forced to develop it into a new game but like

all the things you mentioned are in the game

they're just not aesthetically hive-looking

[hazy veldt]

what if witness isnt fully dead

its been hollowed out from inside BUT

in the end of excision it says "i dont understand" meaning that at least one of the precursor minds is still there

not that its relevant but still

[slim girder]

You are right there was eventually one precursor left as it faded away after excision but that was its final words. After that it was truly unmade. The only thing left of the witness now is the echoes and the aurora around the pale heart entrance.

The precursors have been set free as they wanted us to do.

[sick yew]

Idk if we watched the same death but the Witness kinda yk evaporated

[hazy veldt]

i doubt theyve been set free

we literally vaporized them

maybe free as in dead

[slim girder]

They literally tell us "Free us, free us"

[hazy veldt]

sounds more realistic

[sick yew]

Even if not, it took billions of individuals to make up the Witness
So even with those still remaining in the statues theyre not nearly enough

[hazy veldt]

not nearly enough for any significant impact on plot but those are still billion year old minds

[sick yew]

That still wouldnt make it "the witness"

That entity is dead

[hazy veldt]

nah i understand that

[sick yew]

There might still be some precursors with similar-ish goals but thats not really "The Witness"

[slim girder]

The witness is an entire civilisation merged into one idea.
Emotions, thoughts and everything were put to the side.
The witness only knows it must bring the final shape but has no capacity to think that other species in the universe might not want that

[hazy veldt]

1 faction*

[slim girder]

That's why it says it doesn't understand

[hazy veldt]

there were still some precursors outside of witness by the time they "veiled"

i really doubt that they can possibly live for billions of years in physical bodies but anyways

[hazy veldt]

and yes i know that almost every precursor from other faction has been killed before veiling

[slim girder]

Well we don't know the actual race of the precursors. They looked human sure but there's no way to confirm it and also where their home planet is/was

They could have lived for billions of years

Also precursors were "killed" as they were melded into the witness. We saw this in the witness origin cutscene