📚lore-discussion

[river surge]

Not spoiled the whole thing tho

[queen swallow]

...

That's part of the whole thing

[river surge]

And how is that a spoiler

I just wanna know

[queen swallow]

||Because it weakens it enough so that we can kill it in Excision||

||Like, the entire last mission is a lead up to that||

||The entire process is: Last mission > Raid > Excision. They're probably not even at the last mission yet and have no idea the raid is involved, therefore spoilers||

So, spoilers :)

[wispy cedar]

why doesnt excision just unlock after the raid then

[queen swallow]

Doesn’t matter if they care about the story

[dapper moss]

it did

originally

[wispy cedar]

yea ik but now it doesnt

confused me on my first playthrough

[dapper moss]

because only worlds first is the canonical raid

[wispy cedar]

cos i got a quest to to se after i did excision and i was so confused like why do i still need to kill the witness

[slow berry]

because only like

1% of the active population does raids

and bungie isn't going to lock away the end of the campaign for people who dont

though they should tbqhwy

[wispy cedar]

does se have any notable loot i still havent done it

[dapper moss]

yea

pretty good sword

best glaive in the game

pretty cool smg

VERY good pulse

[wispy cedar]

eh i dont really care about swords or glaives

[dapper moss]

its v well rounded

[wispy cedar]

i might look into it soon

[jagged badge]

There’s no quest to do Salvation’s Edge

[wispy cedar]

oh mb i got se and dp mixed up

[eager trout]

Plus, people who play on PlayStation can't do the raid without PS+

[slow berry]

deserved

but also they fixed that

so

[fallow escarp]

Guys, I KNOW the "s-word" isnt coming back. But I do want to point out that it was used to create Neomuna, and Maya was on Neomuna as a founder

What's more likely is Maya stealing Warsat tech for the forces on Mars

[eager trout]

Fixed what?

[ember storm]

I genuinely see no scenario where Maya building whatever she wants out of vex tech would be worse than trying to loot a bunch of old Warmind bunkers

SIVA isn’t even related to warsat tech

It was just something that Willa Bray cooked up for colonization efforts

“Quicksilver,” the type of nanotech Cloudstriders used, is literally derived from vex tech

[fallow escarp]

I know

[vital linden]

Explain it like I'm five, wait does this mean the witness isn't some god, and just a random strong af guy or something

[blazing wasp]

a "god" is generally a given title without as much meaning as you'd think, and the witness doesnt consider itself as one either

[jagged badge]

The Witness was once a civilisation of people who were blessed by the Traveler until they turned on it and used Darkness to fuse into one gestalt being of immense power

[vital linden]

Oh ok

[eager trout]

What exactly is the "purpose" the Witness claimed to have given to the universe? Because Final Shape starts with it talking about how we have no purpose and all that, yet what it wanted to do was end everything.

[slow berry]

you dont need ps+ to play multiplayer in psn now

[eager trout]

Pretty sure yes

Wait

Is it free multiplayer weekend again?

[slow berry]

no like

with edge of fate you no longer need it apparently

[random flower]

You still need PS+ for matchmaking, all of it. Even Solo Ops Playlist for some confusing reason

[eager trout]

With the update or the DLC?

It's not needed for Portal activities except Crucible, but it's still needed for raids and such, as far as I know

[random flower]

Fireteam Ops also requires PS+ for matchmaking but not for soloing

[dapper moss]

update, i think

they wouldnt take down a paywall but then put that behind a paywall

[random flower]

I just played D2 yesterday and those requirements are still there

[hard sigil]

The witness' beef is that life doesn't have an explicit meaning, and the complexity that it brings is just chaos, by arranging every atom of the universe and calcifying it into a Final Shape™, it believed that the universe would have order and therefore meaning

like an artist arranging the various elements of a scene into a painting

[slow berry]

the witness saw and understood the winnower's ideals

it just had a really uninteresting way of dealing about with it

[hoary bolt]

ok ive been wondering this lore wise cause i saw the clip

https://youtube.com/shorts/Xz6SxutBBZw?feature=shared

is eris actually dead rn? or is she fully intune with hive now giving her a second chance

[queen swallow]

Was dead, is now stuck-ish in a throne world of her own that was made after she died

[hoary bolt]

so she’s technically alive in another way, but isn’t physically here?

im assuming she can talk to us still via her throne world?

[queen swallow]

Yes, we visited her in Episode: Heresy

[slow berry]

She's fully alive; she leaves the throne world and visits a few different places after the events of Edge of Fate

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/distortions#book-as-without This, as well as Fissure, is written from Eris' perspective and she visits Europa and Nessus, then various locations around the system.

I still don't fully buy that ||III is gone||. There's something weird about the whole situation

[vital linden]

What is the traveler ? What does it do, why does it do, do we know already ?

[hoary bolt]

heresy was the last season right?

[queen swallow]

Giant orb that made the ghosts and grants us Light. Has the ability to terraform planets. Linked to The Veil. That's pretty much it.

[hoary bolt]

||III is def not gone gone, i feel like a part of them now lives inside of lodi now that he’s emissary||

[vital linden]

Oh so we don't know anything about it yet

[hoary bolt]

pretty much

we dont know their purpose or goals besides the fact they last were with the elinski

and apperently fled

[queen swallow]

Fled the approach of the Witness

[slow berry]

To be noted!! if you're looking for cool bits of lore!!

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/decompiled#book-as-without this is written from the Drifter's Ghost's perspective

[slow berry]

Did we get lore on Crow wrangling the hunters after being assigned as Vanguard?

[paper gorge]

is the other data pad , story about drifter's ghost ?

[jagged badge]

We know some things. The Traveler seems to be motivated by benevolence and a desire to see complexity and cooperation thrive in the universe. It visits species and terraforms worlds in order to allow them to reach their potentials. The earliest record of the Traveler is that it was found physically emerging from the crust of the Witness’ home world. When the Witness turned on it, it fled and has been chased across the universe for eons since, though still attempts to stop and fulfil its goals of uplifting species. It stopped with the Eliksni before us, and unfortunately stayed too long due to its love for them, which put them at risk. It then fled to us, and when the Black Fleet finally arrived again, it realised it had to make a stand

[eager trout]

But order is not meaning. Is the Witness stupid?

[frigid sparrow]

Order is the opposite of chaos. With chaos, it's impossible to determine the meaning of things. Why people do what, how things fit where.

[slow berry]

No

[dim minnow]

I think the last part of the data pad lore is from Drifter's Ghost's perspective

[slow berry]

The datapads tell first the story of Eris looking into the choral vex and dark matter, then [i forget the name] looking into the cabal's actions

[slow berry]

Oh that yeah

I bring that up a few messages above so I assume they meant the other entries in that pahe

[paper gorge]

wait there stories , other than drifter's ghost perspective , the cabal gearing up for war ?

[frigid sparrow]

The lore book is a collection of the seasonal data pads

It tells us a few things

1. The vex are specifically experimenting with the taken
2. Maya's control over the nessian schism is waning, but still present. She's using them to look for golden age tech and dark matter experimentation.
3. Renegade cabal from Mars are investigating the nine and stealing paracausal artillery
4. Shows us drifters' ghost's perspective from heresy to EoF

[paper gorge]

thanks , what's the name of the lore book , really interested in 1.

[frigid sparrow]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-as-without

[tawdry wigeon]

Hey without spoiling the campaign too much, i havent done it yet, is it true that the nine helped the cabal at the start of d2?

[dapper moss]

yes, it is

presumably

[blazing wasp]

no we got some pretty hard proof via the rogue cryptarc visiting the aperture

[slow berry]

Yeah we've known for a bit

[blazing wasp]

which was her just seeing the moment a member of the nine disabled the satelites, and how it was "punished"

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh woa

Did they affect more things that happened in our story?

Oh btw, i was told this way before the release of eof but, the nine divide into groups no? Some believe/support ideologies other don't right?

[dapper moss]

distinctly two groups, yeah

you’ll see as you finish that that balance has been disturbed quite a bit

[tawdry wigeon]

Ahhh cool so the campaign goes into that awesome thanks

I'll buy it with when ash and iron comes out so yea i cant wait

I hope it's not like lf, half assed filled

[dim minnow]

I don't think it disabled the satellites specifically, it did something that prevented Guardians from predicting their approach.

We know the Red Legion used psions and pretty good tactics to get through our satellite systems

[blazing wasp]

i thought she saw a member of the nine crush a satellite with some dark matter stuff, maybe im mixing up my lore tabs...

[dim minnow]

I know Y1 Solstice had a lore tab where a Guardian who was working on one of these satellites got obliterated before he can warn anybody

[eager trout]

You would only see chaos if you look at what people do from afar. Looking up close you'll see order. However, if you look from further away you'll see more order, then chaos again, and from outside of everything, order in the grandest scale of things. The Witness became really powerful but never looked at things from beyond the perspective of a general onlooker.

[runic widget]

were the three armored characters from the witchqueen ever confirmed to be the hidden? I, and most people I've seen, have calld them that but I cant find actual confirmation of it

[whole wind]

Essentially a sentient and benevolent machine god. Takes joy in visiting civilizations and granting them it's gifts, but is essentially mute and never talks to said civilizations.

[dim minnow]

if they're wearing the Throne World destination armor then they are Hidden Agents

[frigid sparrow]

like, at the enclave? yeah

hidden agents are present there and in the intro to sundered

the throne world armor is loosely based on their appearance

[trim grotto]

Except through its Speakers.

The Traveler is a force of benevolence.

The Traveler is a sentient being with free will, dreams, hopes, and fears.

The Traveler will save us.

The Traveler will leave us.```

Certainly minimal communication, true enough.

[river surge]

The Traveler will stay with us probably

[trim grotto]

oh yeah no that message is long past

It may leave us one day but I expect that'd be centuries away

This was a message from the beginning of the Golden Age before the Collapse happened

[jagged badge]

Their armour has the Hidden logo and they are there with Ikora as part of her investigation of the Relic. Furthermore, at least one of them has idle dialogue where they talk about Hidden stuff

https://youtu.be/hXEs_ZL-fFU?si=xNkvPfu1oDpHgc5s

https://youtu.be/q27dtqvUOAo?si=oiFkE3TtVv3Ol1Gl

[blazing wasp]

hidden DND club

[hard sigil]

I have never heard them speak before first hand smh

[river surge]

Who appeared faster

The Veil

or The Traveler

or did they appear at the same time

[trim grotto]

Appeared where? In Sol?

[river surge]

In the universe

[trim grotto]

We cannot say. If we go by Unveiling, probably simultaneously. If we do not, we haven't seen an origin. The earliest record of the Traveler was it being found by the Precursors, where it was half buried in the sands of their homeworld.

[river surge]

Imagine going in the universe and bom

A Spherical white object appeared out of nowhere

[ember storm]

i mean that's literally what the precursors found

[river surge]

"Guys, THERE IS A FUCKING WHITE BALL BURIED UNDERGROUND"

[ember storm]

wasnt even underground it was just like

in the sand a little

[river surge]

but it was kinda dormant, the moment they "interacted" with it thats then it started acting

[dim minnow]

It's very likely that the Veil was once part of the Gardener (Traveler)

[trim grotto]

Sure. But we don't know anything prior to that point.

[river surge]

They were best friend and now they are separated

What if we bring the veil back to the traveler

[trim grotto]

That's the entire point of Lightfall.

And the Final Shape, for that matter.

The Veil is how the Witness was able to carve open the Traveler.

[river surge]

Yeah but I mean physically bring it next to the Traveler

[trim grotto]

Well, the Traveler fled the Precursors when they tried to do that.

[river surge]

Probably because The Traveler knew what they were gonna do

[trim grotto]

Perhaps. Either way, it's the closest thing to an answer.

[river surge]

Like why would The Traveler reject the Veil if its implied they were once whole

[jagged badge]

We know why the Traveler fled

The Final Shape

[river surge]

Exactly what I said

[trim grotto]

The Traveler is currently undergoing a metamorphosis against its will and becoming something it wasn't due to the Darkness within it. I would assume it wasn't a fan of the idea.

[river surge]

Mhm

[dim minnow]

It's not linking the two that made the Traveler flee, it was the what the Witness was trying to gain from doing it that made it flee

[trim grotto]

Could be both.

[river surge]

Nah

[trim grotto]

Nah?

[river surge]

I still highly believe it was because of The Final Shape

[trim grotto]

Well, yes.

But it could be both.

If they were once whole, something separated them. It isn't unreasonable to theorise that the Traveler did this itself.

[river surge]

Wait wit

just a quick question

did the precursors had both the light and darkness?

or only darkness

[trim grotto]

Their civilisation was built around the Traveler. Only after they began to crave meaning did they seek out and find the Veil in the depths of space.

[dim minnow]

The Darkness seemed to come from the Witness itself more than the Veil

[trim grotto]

Yes, but the Veil also has Darkness.

[river surge]

Can The Winnower had anything to do with this is there any possibility

[trim grotto]

We have no way of knowing, in truth.

[river surge]

😭

I always loved The Traveler theories and stuff regarding it

I just find it so fun and yet so mysterious

[dim minnow]

Other than using it to open the way to the Pale Heart, I don't think the Veil had much else to do with enacting the Final Shape.

[trim grotto]

You are missing my point.

[dim minnow]

Especially since the Witness wanted to destroy the Veil once it was done

[ember storm]

[river surge]

Yeah cause it was the only way we can enter the pale heart

so why not destroy it permanently so we cannot enter it

outside Riven wish of course

[frigid sparrow]

The veil is also currently being a battery for hundreds of thousands to millions of people within neomuna

Whose minds are currently staying upheld by said battery

So destroying the veil (however possible that may be) would effectively cause a genocide

Additionally, the veil wasn't a way we could enter the traveler

If it was, we wouldn't have gone through 3 seasons of trying to find a way in

[dim minnow]

more accurately, the Veil was a way to create the portal that leads to the Pale heart

the problem is that the Witness ensured that no one could go through it safely

unless we were to use a carefully crafted wish to allow one chosen individual to safely reach the Pale Heart

who could then be used to essentially allow anyone else to be lead through

[tawdry wigeon]

How many eliksni houses are there?

[dim minnow]

Devils (Extinct)
Kings (Extinct)
Exile
Wolves (Extinct)
Winter (Extinct)
Scar (Extinct)
Rain (Extinct)
Stone (Extinct)
Judgement (Variks is the last member)
Dusk (Made up of remaining members from Devils, Kings, Winter, and maybe Wolves)
Salvation
Light
Silence (an Eliksni term for afterlife)

[tawdry wigeon]

What about the one in kepler?

[dim minnow]

They're Exile

[tawdry wigeon]

Do we know why they are exiles?

[trim grotto]

On account of being exiled from the other houses. It isn't really an actual House, per se.

[dim minnow]

they don't even have their own Kell

[trim grotto]

It's a rough collection of outcasts with even less cohesion than Dusk used to have.

[frigid sparrow]

D1 house of exiles is just an assortment of literally exiled eliksni. Few notable members here.
D2 exiles are much the same, but they further abandoned the eliksni cause against the traveler and set out to find a home, which Kepler provided

But the scorn barons are also all former exiles so

Neat lil tidbit there

[dim minnow]

they were so bad they got exiled from the exiles

[tawdry wigeon]

Ahhhh okay i see

Gotcha thanks!

[pseudo pebble]

I’m gonna assume the lightsaber girl in the ViDoc is most likely Aunor Mahal?

they mentioned praxics are gonna be involved plus she’s been warning us ab this cabal group

[trim grotto]

I don't suppose you've got a timestamp on it?

[queen walrus]

Ive been waiting since d1 for the praxic order to be more in the game and relevant. Bungie couldnt think of anything and just said they were jedi. Makes me depressed.

[pseudo pebble]

Idk looks pretty warlock to me

[trim grotto]

I don't recognise any of those symbols as being related to the Praxic Order

[pseudo pebble]

I don’t think we’ve gotten praxic symbols

Have we? Idk

The closest thing is Heart of Praxic fire exotic from D1

Which dons very similar colours to hers

Black/Yellow

[ember storm]

What was the cover of the Aunor message lorebook

Was it just the basic guardian emblem

[pseudo pebble]

Think so

[modern lodge]

Loightsabor

[trim grotto]

He turned to look, and saw a woman: brown-skinned, crooked-nosed, with intelligent eyes and a hard stare. She wore a black duster, and light armor underneath. A Warlock. He didn't know her. "You've mistaken me, my dear," he quavered.
Not sure she fits Aunor to me

[modern lodge]

Mael what do you think about the tharsis vex

I think they are very cool

[trim grotto]

Love the vibe, curious as to how the millions of Vex within the chassis come to the conclusions

[modern lodge]

I'm actually pretty excited for renegades

Everything looks really cool

[dim minnow]

"Crooked-nose" didn't have to do her like that

[jagged badge]

It’s just a descriptor, it’s not painted as a negative

[shy remnant]

I really hope that’s not aunor mahal and just a new character cause it would be lame to ignore the lore like that

I hope if it’s not her she still makes an appearance tho

[dapper moss]

sentient vex in renegades

sounds so fucking cool

[slow berry]

what if aunor mahal is the red lightsaber

[jagged badge]

We’re described to be working with Aunor against the new Dredgen

[trim grotto]

it apparently is aunor
so we're just ignoring her armour already existing i guess
not to mention her description

[shy remnant]

No that’s not true THATS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

[slow berry]

they literally whitewashed her bruh

[shy remnant]

wtf is it actually

That’s so lame

[sudden sinew]

How are there vex individuals in renegades? Aren’t they literally just trillions of zooplankton piloting robot bodies, whose sole purpose is surviving the end of everything and turning everything into vex?

[jagged badge]

The paracausal Echo of Command was shown to have introduced individuality to the Vex of Maya’s collective, which has been developing over time until these Vex have developed enough to separate and do their own thing

[modern lodge]

So are the vex inside the chassis now one collective? Or have they joined into one being

[jagged badge]

[agile field]

wait what happened after the launch of the capaign?

[jagged badge]

After Edge of Fate?

[tight inlet]

So, vex gang is going to be interesting in renegades

[agile field]

yeah, the seasons

[jagged badge]

There hasn’t really been a seasonal narrative since until now with Ash & Iron

Just some data pads with lore teasing Renegades

[agile field]

ohh ok

[harsh terrace]

Is it known if Saint-14 feels any remorse for his slaughtering of Eliksni? Or perhaps if he has any comments on the Eliksni presence in the tower? What is he's space racist but not the cool kind (because I like the Eliksni) ((but if it was against the vex or taken it'd be alright)) (((cabal are cool too tbf)))

[jagged badge]

Saint dealing with his past with the Eliksni was a major plot point in Splicer

[sudden sinew]

Why would Saint-14 feel bad? He was doing his duty as a guardian, defending the city from being massacred by the fallen invaders

[jagged badge]

Culminating in him defending House Light and becoming friends with Mithrax

[harsh terrace]

That's so cool

[jagged badge]

I mean, it wasn’t his “duty” to go on a big, one-man revenge spree

[harsh terrace]

Yea I know why he did it but I feel in my heart of hearts there were eliksni that were Atleast half innocent

Like the children

[sudden sinew]

Did he kill any fallen children?

[harsh terrace]

Probably

[jagged badge]

He became a boogeyman to Eliksni, and one of the things that affected him deeply was the thought that he was deemed scary to children

[harsh terrace]

Poor guy

[jagged badge]

That was something that was very foreign to him and shook him to his core and changed his perspective on House Light

[harsh terrace]

But it was his duty to defend humanity. To be fair, the eliksni were also doing big bad at the time

Oh related thing, do eliksni find it offensive to be called fallen? I think I remember it being said my variks maybe but I'm not sure

[jagged badge]

It’s a disparaging term applied to them after their own collapse due to how their society turned out because of it

[harsh terrace]

Which only happened because the traveler fled because of the witness

Could've given them the power of the light too

The eliksni we face have been pretty determined, and there reverence for the traveler could've made them great guardians

[sudden sinew]

At the time, the only thing that was known about the fallen were that they were vicious scavengers, who invaded earth after the collapse, and barely ever dealt with humanity in a non hostile manner. They were monsters until they weren’t.

[hard sigil]

so the new cabal is called the errant imperium? I couldn't make out the first word in the Livestream and the captions are saying Barren but that doesn't sound right

[sudden sinew]

Barant Imperium

[jagged badge]

Barant

[dim minnow]

should be noted that a lot of the Eliksni Saint went after had no affiliations with the great houses who were the ones resopnsible for attacking us

[jagged badge]

Whatever that means

[harsh terrace]

But I mean before our collapse and before the traveler left them

[hard sigil]

ah ok

[harsh terrace]

I wish there were better images of Chelchis

Mf fought oryx/oryx's army as his mind fled

Eliksni are so cool

[hard sigil]

ok basing things off the season pass sparrow:
the Barant Imperium are traitor Ascendancy troops, who have time dilation technology (from the nine, no doubt), and have captured a presumably human architect (one Dr. Em Simoni-Lee) to build a space station to house their new super weapon, the Cosmic Incubator. It's a death star

now I theorise that the cosmic incubator will probably create some kind of vessel for one or more members of the outers to inhabit

all this going down on mars means IV could be complicit or overwhelmed by the outers though

[dim minnow]

IV is grieving over III's death and is said to not care much for rules because of it

[eager trout]

||Why did some new text say III consumed Maya?||

[hard sigil]

?

which one

[dim minnow]

it's metaphorical

Maya was consumed by her greed which led her to III

[modern lodge]

Splicer is a goated season

[frigid sparrow]

The gun lore tabs are still so fucking haunting

[pseudo pebble]

The Imperium looks so menacing

I hope it’s not a one and done

[frigid sparrow]

Arrha got docked :(

[modern lodge]

Who is arrha

Someone from the splicer gun tab?

[frigid sparrow]

one of spider's primary associates

new exotic lore tab

it also pretty explicitly states that spider's going to mars

[queen walrus]

Saladin pulling a “nanomachines son” always gets a laugh out of me

[modern lodge]

Do we see quicksilver after lf at all

[slow berry]

i think it'd be really cool if saint finds out about independent vex and is like "mother fucker I killed literally infinity of them i'm a monster again"

and the independent vex are like

"holy fuck its saint-xiv you're the goat can you sign my head"

[modern lodge]

Why would he go "I'm a monster again" they just gained individuality

The tharsis vex are probably not even alive rn

[slow berry]

I've had the thought that if the Echoes are paracausal, III's death is a genuine surprise and a change in the entire scheme of time because unlike Theia where they could always see and know and always see and know that Theia had died and was always dying, III went from alive to always dead

[modern lodge]

Maybe they are I Dunno

[slow berry]

it's vex i think they're like

always alive

because time

[modern lodge]

No but you know what I mean

[frigid sparrow]

[modern lodge]

That's a no then

I mean technically we see it during ash and iron

[frigid sparrow]

the axe is quicksilver

[modern lodge]

Yea that's what I mean

Shame the exotic mission is in a month

Like it wasn't even ready

[dim minnow]

we know that the outer orbits knew it was gonna happen, because they were the ones who brought Maya to Kepler

[frigid sparrow]

CONCORDAT MENTIONED WOOO

[modern lodge]

One of the data pads has some binary and I put it into a binary calculator and it means blue

Binary to text

[slow berry]

that's drifter's ghost

[modern lodge]

Blue?

[slow berry]

all of its datapads start with "blue" in binary

[modern lodge]

Oh neat

I was right then

[slow berry]

there's also some binary in one of eris's bugged datapads

its says III

[modern lodge]

Like III or three

[slow berry]

III

explicitly the letters III

[sweet locust]

Do we know what manufacturer new malpais is from?

[sick yew]

Dont look like anything ive seen before

Could be a prototype or custom build

[sweet locust]

I assume it’s a prototype we picked up from the lands

And then we impowered it with strand

[fiery rover]

my guess is maybe its some form of "golden age tech" weapon

[eager trout]

Something in the new activity

[lofty badge]

anyone else noticed Devil splicer corpses in Ash and Iron areas? or is it just reused d1 props?

[trim grotto]

I noticed a symbol on it, but it's only half there. Hard to determine, unless you know of a complete one elsewhere on the model?

[sweet locust]

Nope

[trim grotto]

I'm willing to bet it's reused assets. Not the first time we've seen that with the Cosmodrome. The few remaining old Devils largely joined Dusk or Salvation.

[sweet locust]

I think most likely it’s probably a golden age weapon from a manufacturer that just simply didn’t survive the collapse.

[slow berry]

the corpses are probably just left there from d1, rather than recent

[lofty badge]

true

[slow berry]

i dont think siva is biodegradable

[lofty badge]

yeah it is nanite

[lofty badge]

anyone else hyped for Renegades despite most people saying its dead with the Eh launch of ash and Iron?

[sick yew]

I think consumed in this case means more obsession rather than literally being consumed by it

[eager trout]

Why can't they be both? It's not like they have to make a whole new model for something that already exists and works well

[lofty badge]

yeah, i mean... did we know if any Devil splicers survived and just remained in the plaguelands?

for all those years?

[trim grotto]

Because if it was both, that suggests there are active Splicers with active SIVA.

[sick yew]

@eager trout you can be lucky I saw your message earlier and decided to clip the datapad because I spammed through it and just noticed the last page saying consumed and Maya

[eager trout]

At this point I think people have become so cynical that they will hate on everything in fear of becoming "complacent"

[sick yew]

I just had to go through it frame by frame to see the actual contents lmfao

[sweet locust]

The game will probably die out till renegades, or we will get an emergency TWAB this week.

[lofty badge]

seems about right ngl

[sick yew]

This is how it looked

[slow berry]

If there were active splicers the area wouldn't have been left cordoned off and the forges would be running i think

[trim grotto]

Aspects of it. I also have significant qualms with a Disney corporate pairing that is this heavy handed with its inserts.

[lofty badge]

fair

[trim grotto]

The Vex seem fun though.

[sick yew]

Im torn still, the vidoc made it looks pretty damn awesome but they tend to do that
As usual ill just wait till it drops

[slow berry]

You read fast lmao

[hard sigil]

might be too much star wars for my liking but it seems like a good time

[sick yew]

Pattern recognition quite literally just picked up that last slide

[sweet locust]

The vex are all technically one being just copied millions if not billions of times correct?

[sick yew]

Not really

[lofty badge]

fair, i am warly hayped

[hard sigil]

not necessarily

[jagged badge]

https://tenor.com/view/lets-go-gambling-gif-3937562841362806777

[sick yew]

Imagine it more like ants

Thats the comparison I always use

[slow berry]

nah each one of the microbes is different

[hard sigil]

the only copying they really do is with Imps and their sub-units

[sweet locust]

A colony of the same creature where everyone has the exact same goals?

[sick yew]

Yup

[hard sigil]

and a case can be made for vex brought from other timelines being the "same" unit I guess

[sick yew]

Radiolaria aka the white electric fluid you see everywhere is the actual Vex

[sweet locust]

Until Maya made them independent correct?

[sick yew]

Precisely

[sweet locust]

Yeah I learned this.

[trim grotto]

Close. Think of it like... Star Wars Clones, actually. All based off of the same single pattern, but that doesn't mean they're purely identical. Vex Collectives have different goals, Vex within a single unit may disagree. They're a bit Geth, if you're a Mass Effect fan.

[sweet locust]

I see

[eager trout]

They got permission from Disney, so they took advantage from it. Otherwise it would have been a vaguely-inspired expansion with obvious references but legally distinct enough.

[lofty badge]

yeah

[trim grotto]

Though to clarify on different goals, they largely all seek Convergence, essentially a Vex Final Shape, but they go about it in different ways.

[trim grotto]

I don't need it explained. My issues remain regardless.

[hard sigil]

what I find interesting about these independent vex is that they're still a colony, just disconnected from a larger one, being the network, and working like they were singular

[trim grotto]

I suppose that it is still their nature, originally.

[sweet locust]

So they are kinda like a lone ant colony that’s into some shady shit?

[sick yew]

Its sorta like a Witness now I think? All the Radiolaria within each Vex unit making decisions and shit

[hard sigil]

true. closer to a human brain now I guess. each microbe is just a neuron

[trim grotto]

Technically they always did that, but... hm. I'm not actually sure how the Schism work, really.

[sick yew]

Beforehand their decisionmaking was bound to their respective network at large no?

[lofty badge]

yeah i think so, like the rest of the vex Network straight up told Maya "No" when she offered for them to join her

[hard sigil]

what I mean is that each "unit" of vex (i.e. a goblin) still contains millions if not billions of radiolaria microbes suspended in the milk. Obviously a single microbe probably doesn't contain the intelligence to act as a complete individual, so they still work together to form a larger mind. like Foo Fighters from Jojos

[sweet locust]

OHHHHHH

[sick yew]

Mf Jojo reference in destiny lore?

[lofty badge]

a bit like the hunters from Halo? a lone a single worm is not worth much but togeather they form a consciousness?

[sick yew]

Crazy stuff

[hard sigil]

millions of plankton combining their intelligence into a singular being. whilst the normal vex collective is the same thing, just on a MUCH MUCH larger scale

[sweet locust]

wait… so it’s like if a shit ton of….extremely young babies all grouped up to form a intelligence?

[trim grotto]

Not in a literal sense, but they did kind of murk any Vex that stepped out of line, yeah.

[lofty badge]

i mean some vex be older than humanity

[sweet locust]

Yes that’s true forgot about that

[hard sigil]

yeah it gets messy with their timeline jumping

[sweet locust]

The ants are the tiny microbes, the colony is the big chunk of them working together

[sick yew]

Indeed

[sweet locust]

And the body is the ant hill?

[hard sigil]

like body cells and a motherboard all in one

[sick yew]

In a sense

[sweet locust]

I see

Sorry you had to put it in jojo’s terms for me to understand lol.

[sick yew]

Whatever helps man

[hard sigil]

dare I say it's an apt comparison

[sick yew]

FF is pretty much the exact same thing as a Vex unit so it checks out

[trim grotto]

Found it finally

Osiris: Or the same ideals. This aligns with observations I've made in the Infinite Forest, where "aberrant" Vex were quarantined and destroyed. Aberrant in that they moved against a consensus. Aberrant in ideology. The Vex may seem unified, but they're divided into a number of factions.```

[sick yew]

Elsie and Osiris talked?

Where is that from

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/mygX3q6Y7cg?si=RvVdntfrr2BGNb6P

[sick yew]

Ah Seraph

Damn

[trim grotto]

i can remember this from two years ago but i forget birthdays

[sweet locust]

Best season.

[sick yew]

Yeah I feel ya
I can tell you what most of my like 4thousand clips are about within the first 2 seconds but dont ask me what I ate yesterday

[jagged badge]

https://tenor.com/view/cyclops-ryu-dap-me-up-dap-dap-up-gif-2485274535169214603

[sick yew]

HOLY SHIT GUYS

Splicer class confirmed!!!1!11!

[slow berry]

i still wonder if we'll get the actual Kell of Kells prophecy fulfilled

[shy remnant]

Isn’t that technically eramis now

[slow berry]

Eramis isn't a Kell

She's just gone to fuck off elsewhere

Misraaks is the de-facto kell of kells by virtue of being the only remaining kell but we still don't have the "chosen by the great machine" bit

[fresh zephyr]

Ikora says Maya might be losing grip of the Echo

Is it possible the Lord of Every Nothing will steal it

[sick yew]

Faithe I swear to god

[lucid magnet]

Whoever came up with that name " Lord of Every Nothing" lacks imagination

Is such a bad name

[sick yew]

Yeah they should have gone with the The Lord of No Anything

But oh well

[trim grotto]

There is also a fairly substantiated theory that the Witness was the one who perpetuated the rumour of the Kell of Kells, intentionally furthering such fracturing.

[jagged badge]

I don’t see why

[trim grotto]

Mm. I don't mind it, but I get it. It's kind of... ah, generic evil guy fantasy vibe.

That's not always a bad thing, but it does stand out compared to our regular vibe.

Of course, the design of the Witness also stood out from our regular vibe, and that turned out to be an excellent end to the saga, so y'know.

[river surge]

We are so back fr

[fresh zephyr]

I love The Witness

[ember storm]

Let’s just call em “The”

[frigid sparrow]

It's so cringe it wraps around to being kinda fire

[slow berry]

Where does that come from?

[trim grotto]

Ah. Ishtar seems to be broken, so... let me see if I can figure out another way to get it.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/star-eater-scales

There we go

This entry requires a bit of context. The reports and warnings that Ekris's consoles emit are indicitive, identical, to that of Pyramid gravitational interference.

So, that means Darkness. Raksil doesn't exist, he is a hallucination.

[frigid sparrow]

Isn't it funny how we finally met the star eater and it turns out that mf was a hive titan

[strong tendon]

Lord of every nothing is a banger name Wdym

Aura

[modern lodge]

Really?

[wheat flower]

I don't like that your voice is different than the one i had in my head

[gusty scaffold]

what exactly are the architects

[jagged badge]

It’s not a lore thing

Just a fun gameplay joke

[gusty scaffold]

oh

[jagged badge]

You died to game physics or mishaps or whatever

[gusty scaffold]

lame

[jagged badge]

So you died to the architects of the game, as it were

[trim grotto]

Back in Halo, dying to physics was detailed as "Killed by the Guardians." Obviously, that wouldn't work here in Destiny, so...

[gusty scaffold]

what were the guardians in halo

[trim grotto]

Physics

Something the game engine couldn't define

[gusty scaffold]

ah

[trim grotto]

They did the same thing for Destiny, just changed the name for obvious reasons

[jagged badge]

“The Guardians” were long a topic of theory/speculation but it is literally nothing more than haha funny you died to the game

I feel like I remember people trying to spin some connections between that and when 343 introduced actual things called Guardians to Halo’s lore but that was just people being silly

[trim grotto]

how dare that Guardian put the water there that i drowned in

[gusty scaffold]

what are the 9?

ive heard someone say it was like the conciousness of the planets or something because we have nine planets

[trim grotto]

Would you like the short answer or the long answer?

[gusty scaffold]

would both be possible?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust
The long answer is this: The lore book Dust, particularly the aptly named entry The Nine.

Frankly that entry could exist as the short answer in and of itself, but if you want an excellent story to go with it, I'd recommend the whole lore book.

[gusty scaffold]

i wish we had more nine inspired like gear

all we have is prophecy since no more totn

[slow berry]

I love how this mirror the nine ghost fragment from d1

The Declaration actually

[summer depot]

Would a hunter be allowed in the praxic order?

[trim grotto]

There's a Praxic Titan in their order, so I assume so, yes. It is, however, typically a Warlock Order.

[modern lodge]

What is the praxic order

[trim grotto]

The short version is that they're zealots of the Light willing to burn anything even akin to Darkness. The recent years have been... difficult for them to adapt to.

[modern lodge]

Interesting

[glass snow]

Oh but don’t worry, they’re the cool Jedi and Dredgen are Sith with red lightsabers

[slow berry]

were the galaxy pools ever tied to anything in the lore

[dim minnow]

no

[slow berry]

funny

[frigid sparrow]

yeap

[sinful pivot]

@trim grotto the binary on the new golden age data pad things spell out "blue"

i have no idea what it means but i figured youd be interested

[modern lodge]

I did it earlier

[lofty badge]

can we invite this Psion for dinner...

[blazing wasp]

im not sure we know what they eat

[modern lodge]

Don't we have have caital's number

[lofty badge]

she got Zavala, that Psion there be cute tho

[lofty badge]

thoughts?

🤔

[modern lodge]

No as in we could contact her and ask about Psion diet

[lofty badge]

oh yeah true

that we deffently can

[trim grotto]

Perhaps the Psion is a fan of Black Cube

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/praefectus-bond

[lofty badge]

black cube?

[trim grotto]

Black Cube

[modern lodge]

black Cube

Mael

What is the Siva engine that we got from aksis

We used that to make outbreak

I haven't really given outbreak any thought other than Siva gun that creates nanites

[trim grotto]

I'm actually a little rusty on the initial construction of the original Outbreak. Some D1 things elude me, since I never played it. Let me see...

[modern lodge]

Oh

[trim grotto]

As far as I can tell at a glance at each of these, there's a lot of technobabble which doesn't actually explain what it is or does

Just a lot of words about charging and syncing

[modern lodge]

So theoretically I could create a house with outbreak?

Just shoot a wall for an hour to create nanites

[trim grotto]

Well, you'd need a way to command the SIVA. Reprogramming it. A complex system that isn't just "kill what pointed at" typically requires an AI to command it.

[modern lodge]

Was aksis commanding it with his brain?

[trim grotto]

The Devil Splicers used the incredibly complex and competent command of CONSUME. ENHANCE. REPLICATE., leading to the Plaguelands being a thing and SIVA overrunning the entire area out of control.

Aksis had access to the Replication Chamber.

[modern lodge]

Real

[sudden sinew]

"We are they who created themselves out of themselves and died in the creation. No longer merely the god in the machine, but the machine in the god. ~consume enhance replicate~ Here we rise, made equal at last to that which we worship. ~consume enhance replicate~"
— Aksis

[lofty badge]

Can common Cabal breathe earth air or do they require helmets and Rebreathers?

Or is the fact most of them wear helmets or Face coverings are for practical purposes?

[trim grotto]

The helmets and armour was typically more of an pressure problem than oxygen itself.
The Cabal that steps out of the Thresher has ground her tusks down to flat disks, etched with symbols inlaid with gold. She, like many of Caiatl's retinue, wears no pressure suit, instead having chosen to undergo pressure acclimation training to safely survive in Earth's atmosphere.

[lofty badge]

Ohh okay

Cool

[river surge]

Aksis one of the best designs

[slow berry]

This is why cabal headshots make a hissing sound and shoot out gas also

[hard sigil]

I wonder if it's a high pressure or low pressure issue

the hiss makes it seem like Earth's atmosphere is too low pressure

[blazing wasp]

Correct.

[slow berry]

Yup

[trim grotto]

they put snakes in all of the cabal armour actually

they get scared and bite the cabal if the cabal is shot so they're incentivised not to get wounded and win and be the best

[blazing wasp]

Oh dear

[slow berry]

Not deer I think they wouldnt fit inside

[blazing wasp]

Big cabal

[hard sigil]

cloned cabal soldiers are just heads, the rest of the suit is filled with one singular deer and up to ten snakes

[lofty badge]

Do most of Sol's Cabal Popluation fall under Caiatl's command?

[dapper moss]

with what we know about the remnants of the dark legion and the new faction coming in renegades, likely not

[lofty badge]

True, at least i think the Civlian refugees from the Cabal homeworld are on her side

• other loyalists

[dapper moss]

oh 100%

i'd say most of the cabal that are actually near us are caiatls

[lofty badge]

yeah

like it makes sense most Cabal are with her

cause she did make some good choices that saved their speices

and hell with humanity as allies mabye they can start making a home in Sol

on some world that is not earth

[dapper moss]

keep in mind there are trillions of cabal out there

[river surge]

Keep in mind we can reclaim Torabatl

[dim minnow]

Keep in mind we probably can't

[river surge]

We cant reach it yes

But we may have have a chance after we defeat Xivu

[dim minnow]

Which we haven't yet, and if she's going to be working with Savathun then things will get harder for us

[slow berry]

What if the inevitable xivu arath raid boss was like, you can always fight xivu but being in combat with her for too long wipes you

So the mechanics are not actual hard phases and you just sorta weave in and out of combat with her as you do mechanics to deal with something or other in the arena

Like rhulk but the entire ass encounter

[dim minnow]

@fringe lantern You changed my name again didn't you

[fringe lantern]

hi nova bomb

[dim minnow]

You were creative with this one ngl

[fringe lantern]

(its because ive already done all the low effort changes)

[cyan rivet]

So I’ve just picked the game up again, and I remember the last of the story was involving Cayde

I know it’s been some years and the story’s evolved but is there a video or article that could help me catch up with what’s going on? I’ve started Ikora’s timeline missions but they don’t really fill me in enough I guess

[trim grotto]

Well, that was likely Forsaken, so that was about six years ago.

Dova has a recap written up in the pinned messages, and there are videos out there, but it depends exactly how much detail you're after.

[cyan rivet]

Yeah that sounds about right, I’ll check out the pinned message like you said and try find some videos too to help, thanks 🙏🏽

[trim grotto]

MyNameIsByf has some very long ones if you're after detail.

[cyan rivet]

I just briefly read Y1-4 and that’s pretty much perfect summaries of what I needed so I should be good to keep working through those messages, but I appreciate the help still

shoutout to you and those who wrote them

I knew there was further lore since I played but wow

[heavy lichen]

When enemies kill us and it shows an elemental damage. Is that the same as the light we have or more for gameplay purposes? Or is the light just manifesting existing elements in the destiny universe?

[trim grotto]

Our Light takes on the forms of aspects of the universe, but those aspects are natural. Solar, Arc, and Void, are representations of energy.

In other words, Arc and Arc Light aren't the same thing.

A perfect visual example is my favourite pulse rifle of the past

Bear with me one moment

[heavy lichen]

So psions shooting void balls or lightning is not the light, just them using some tech or their mental strength to channel that natural energy?

[trim grotto]

Here on the left we have the Go Figure, a Kinetic Pulse Rifle.
On the right, we have Right Side of Wrong, a Solar Pulse Rifle.
The difference here is that the Solar Pulse Rifle has an energy pack strapped to the barrel, and plugged into the port on the side.

Handy dandy modular tech from the Eliksni
Fun visual design and a great representation of energy

Actually it might be old Golden Age tech from the ruins of the Tangled Shore.

Either way

[heavy lichen]

What about this?

[ember storm]

Psions have natural psychic abilities but it’s not light

Solar, arc, and void are the blanket interpretations of scientific aspects of the universe

Our elemental abilities are just shaping light into these concepts we’re already familiar with

A psion can’t activate void light Invis or devour just because their psychic powers would be classified as void energy

[trim grotto]

Same deal. 99% of the time, if you're not facing a Guardian with a Ghost, it isn't Light.

[heavy lichen]

Makes sense

[ember storm]

Basically, “Void” is what we generally categorize forces like gravity and black holes as

Light is a separate thing that can just be shaped like these energies

[slow berry]

i think if psions were introduced today they'd use strand

[hard sigil]

Light is the paracausal manifestation and manipulation of the material elements of the universe to sum things up I think

[hard sigil]

the humble weaver

[dapper moss]

weavers are

uh

not psions

[hard sigil]

they were

or at least they look like it

[ember storm]

Wizards literally shoot arc balls called “Darkness Blast” I don’t think it really matters

The void blast is more of a connection to Nez now anyway

[queen walrus]

Finally some more Praxic lore but its on the crossover Xwing

[trim grotto]

Spill the tea
What've we got?

[queen walrus]

So sad that the Praxic order is being pigeon holed into jedi like this

probably not the right word

[trim grotto]

It was certainly a decision, yes.

[jagged badge]

DECRYPTION KEY: !ERROR-VerificationInconclusive
TYPE: BASELINE ENTRIES
AGENT(S): AUN-326

//ENTRY #05-1204//
No one is safe. With the re-emergence of the Weapons of Sorrow, an escaped prisoner somehow getting their hands on Devourer Bullets, and the murder of our Hunter Vanguard—now, more than ever, the Order's work is essential to the survival of humanity. Bahaghari believes recruitment efforts should be expanded. I agree.

//ENTRY #06-0305//
Ikora's requested I stand down from my pursuit of the Drifter. After that back-alley deal turned hostage situation in Midtown, and his weaponizing of Taken energy… I need to know his game. He's been feeding us intel and wants to meet. Fine. If the intel is as good as he claims, maybe I won't arrest him. Maybe.

//ENTRY #13-0209//
This use of Darkness is a plague. Corrupted Guardians and Ghosts are everywhere. Siegfried and I were able to quash that attempt to follow Eramis's footsteps, but had they found our vault, it would've been a different story altogether.

//ENTRY #26-0204//
First Botza, now the Market District. How much closer to the Tower can known criminals like Spider get? My sit-down with Prak'kesh wasn't as fruitful as I'd hoped, although the Concordat's play to butter up Guardians with Skimmers is a noteworthy takeaway.

//ENTRY #27-0909//
Zavala's order to conceal the prophecy may be priority one, but with what I've learned from monitoring the Drifter and the Guardian's new scheme, I'll be taking my Cormorant Blade with me for company.```

[queen walrus]

Its a couple entries investigating

I just got my comfy coffee to enjoy reading it, its just hard to enjoy since they went about it this way for the collab.

im tring to ignore the jedi stuff

[trim grotto]

Well, the good news is that this does sound like the Praxic Order, so there's that. The number system confuses me, though... what does that four number system represent?

[trim grotto]

yeah a lot of us feel the same way haha

[queen walrus]

Still happy to hear from them at least

[trim grotto]

Also... Cormorant Blade? Is this meant to be a version of the "Praxic Blade" Lightsaber?
Cormorant is sometimes used instead of Praxic, but the distinction is lost on me. Must be a subset of the Praxic...

I have to admit, I was under the impression that the Blade of the Cormorant was metaphorical. Like the Cormorant were the blade.

[queen walrus]

Ive been a sunsinger since d1, and my most obsessed item of all time of any game was HotPF.

[slow berry]

I thought it referred to dawnblades

[queen walrus]

I think Cormorant might be the more CIA types in th eorder? im not an expert on th elroe at all just a guess though

[slow berry]

Also the lore is fine so far it reads like regular ol' zealots

"lock them all up for playing with ice cubes" thats 'em alright

[trim grotto]

Praxic Blade I believed to be this.

[slow berry]

I will say

"Somehow

an escaped prisoner got their hands on devourer bullets."

[queen walrus]

Maybe im just sad it star wars, i was more than fine with the dark souls reference on the original armor

[trim grotto]

...wait.

hang on

god damn it come on

[queen walrus]

"suggests recruitment efforts should be expanded"
hey thats us lol

mine says praxic

[trim grotto]

Two separate ships both called Renegade Leader and both with nearly identical lore

[trim grotto]

yeah because there are two ships

[queen walrus]

bungie: "oops"

[frigid sparrow]

Wdym nearly

[trim grotto]

These are both Renegade Leader and each has a different version of the lore tab

[frigid sparrow]

I thought it was just a bug

[trim grotto]

check the image above

[queen walrus]

i see yea what the heck

[spiral sorrel]

Why didnt Maya just take Siva Splicers from another timeline instead of cabal smh, what is she stupid

[frigid sparrow]

I mentioned it way earlier in genchat

[slow berry]

That explains it lmao i was confused when i got a renegade leader ship for free but it wasnt the xwing

Just assumed i heard wring from the stream

[frigid sparrow]

Vex timelines are weird

They probably didn't have any Siva splicers to get info from in terms of a lore perspective

Whereas they were very much present during the red war

[spiral sorrel]

Ah yeah true probably

[queen walrus]

oh neat the entry mentioned how she knew that the concordat was trying to butter us up with skimmers

I dont know who they are though, ive herd the name

[frigid sparrow]

Plus you can also make the argument that the cabal could be easily influenced whereas siva's influence would override hers in a weird non-paracausal sense

[spiral sorrel]

That is possible, Cabal are kinda ordered soldiers anyways

So naturally take orders better

[trim grotto]

One of the original factions that made up the Consensus, leading body of the Last City. They tried to stage a coup, which is why Bannerfall looked like that even in D1, and they got exiled for it.

Guardian supremacists, supposedly.

[modern lodge]

I would of thought that Siva could also fuck with vex pretty badly no?

[ember storm]

Vex are corruptive to the point that they can assimilate entire taken and individuals without touching them at all

Siva is just tiny robots, any of them come into contact with radiolaria and that'll just devour them right back

[slow berry]

The splicer SIVA did consume enhance replicate across the plaguelands in really quickly which seems scary but consider that the vex have been doing that on a universal scale across time and space

[ember storm]

yeah plus all siva was doing was eating into old rusty scrap and building on top of what was actually there

vex can completely wipe out an ecosystem and implant themselves as the structure of the planet itself basically instantly

[modern lodge]

It's a shame Nessus wasn't permanently changed to how it was during echoes

[modern lodge]

btw whats the lore of quicksilver storm? is it just something that was created with quicksilver?

[slim girder]

It was. But bungie sadly can't update the live game to reflect lore sometimes

[dim minnow]

I think it was an abandoned Cloud Strider weapon Elsie found where she met that Pouka

[modern lodge]

btw what are the pouka? are they just little robot fish

[dim minnow]

they seem to be some sort of therapy animal

allowing one to unlock hidden memories or something of the sort

Elsie's Pouka allowed her to see her own memories from other timelines

[modern lodge]

i got one in my room, maybe i can find 50 bucks that ive possibly forgotten

[clear belfry]

why cant we close the portal on the traveler

[trim grotto]

We don't have any means to. Besides, the Traveler is undergoing a metamorphosis and a slow healing process. All we can truly do is help it heal.

[clear belfry]

Ok thanks

[slim girder]

Adding to this. The portal is more like a wound the witness cut into the traveler. Not a conventional "door" that can't be closed.

Everything the witness did to the traveler has hurt it.

[slow berry]

It's like saying why cant you close up a stab wound

Like you can, kinda sorta technically, but it has to heal on its own

[queen swallow]

Since the portal into the Pale Heart is triangle shaped, would that make it a bayonet wound, which are triangular and impossible to close?

[slow berry]

I was literally literally about to post that

I deadass wrote it up then deleted it

[queen swallow]

Be faster 😎

[slow berry]

"radial mast wounds are triangular and cant be stitched"

[queen swallow]

The Witness' actions are outlawed by the Geneva Convention

[dim minnow]

"We own a Radial Mast for Final Shape enacting, just like the Winnower intended."

[river surge]

Winnower needs better knifes tbh

Can we get a karambit next time

[modern lodge]

is strand invisible?

the actual strand abilities we use?

[dim minnow]

They're visible to us due to our Light

I also believe that once you are able to percieve it, you can see it

[river surge]

Strand is my fav in Destiny

[modern lodge]

damn imagine getting ganked by invisible threadlings

[river surge]

I would love to wield that power irl

[modern lodge]

ngl im kinda suprised house of dusk is still around

[slim girder]

Lotta eliksni in this system. Pretty much the entirety of the eliksni people came to sol save for some who instead went in other directions.

Rn we have house light, house salvation, house dusk and now the house of exile

And our most recent edition the pikers in renegades

[modern lodge]

House salvation are def dying out tho right? Or atleast soulless or something similar right

[modern lodge]

Atheist eliknsi

Btw how advanced is quicksilver compared to Siva?

And I assume it's much safer

[slim girder]

Not dying out. But they've gone with eramis to go rebuild Riis using the echo after eramis claimed it from fikrul.

[slim girder]

Quicksilvers only drawback is its incorporation of vex technology. We see in neomuna lore how vex incursions are a regular thing that needs to be dealt with thanks to this bridge they've made using vex tech. Not crazy incursions save for one horrible event that happened but still incursions to keep an eye on.

Ever since that horrible event in the cloudark, the neomuni have become extremely adept at warding off the vex while still being able to benefit from the technological advancements they have

Sivas only winning factor over quicksilver would simply be that it's entirely man made and can only turn dangerous if given a command which under normal circumstances would never happen.

[modern lodge]

So quicksilver can be hijacked by vex?

[slim girder]

Pretty much because quicksilver is also a part of the whole city. Like the neomuni use it to repair damages, make resources and we saw it being used to build a shrine to Rohan after his death.

The whole city runs on it and it's allowed them to be able to have a city that can almost mold itself to what the neomuni need as we've seen from patrols and public events.

[modern lodge]

I don't remember the molding part tbh

[slim girder]

If you do some patrols and public events you'll hear people talking about how they can repurpose vex and cabal gear to help the city. And during the excavator public event you can hear one neomuni even say we need to stop them from siphoning resources from the city as again it is made using that quicksilver nanotechnology

[modern lodge]

Damn so it's a double edged sword

Interesting

Shame quicksilver hasn't seen more relevance

Seeing as the destiny community loves nanites

[hard sigil]

it's just siva 2 so there's not a lot they can touch on that they haven't already. although a terminator 2/grey goo situation where it comes alive or something via vex would be neat

[modern lodge]

I mean more like weapons or even armour themed on it

I dunno

[hard sigil]

don't give them ideas for more eververse sets

they did just release a sparrow, ship and shell themed after it though

[slim girder]

Was just about to say lol

Not to mention an osteo striga bundle

[hard sigil]

lore implication of a sparrow of sorrow \j

[slim girder]

Marcus ren prolly attached hive gunk to a sparrow and then started committing vehicular violence on guardians

[modern lodge]

Osteo striga needs a buff so badly

[slim girder]

It's actually just fine when paired with necrotic grips. Just not as completely mindless as before. I think people were being very dramatic when it got nerfed.

[modern lodge]

Nah last time I used it, it was genuinely awful

[slim girder]

I've used it in more recent times and it felt fine. Still mowed through hordes of enemies but instead of having infinite ammo I did still need to reload every now and again.

[grizzled zinc]

who are the thunder gods and are they actually bungie

[trim grotto]

What, from those gameplay gifts a while back?

[grizzled zinc]

the ones at the end of every yearly cycle yessir

[trim grotto]

It isn't lore.

It's just some fun arc stuff to attract new players

[heady gyro]

It was fun reading this new lore tab and seeing Lodi freeze up when talking to Saint (who is confirmed russian now i guess) because Lodi is from the cold war era

[jagged badge]

Yeah that was a fascinating and cool bit of lore I thought

[hasty needle]

how long until I'm part of the lore again?

it's boring here in the vault

[jagged badge]

I mean

There’s an upcoming Warsat based exotic mission

But Big Red himself isn’t gonna come back

[trim grotto]

Well. Rasputin isn't Vaulted, he's... dead. So.

[hasty needle]

Nah, I'd adapt

[hasty needle]

that's what you think

[sick yew]

Actually I had a backup of him all this time

Trust

[slow berry]

isnt archie the dog part-rasputin

[sick yew]

I dont know Archie lore besides the fact that we found him in Earths warsat station just sitting there

[trim grotto]

A little. But he isn't a backup.

[slow berry]

just give failsafe a little warmind bunker

[slow berry]

as a treat

[hasty needle]

just like purple guy, I always come back

[sick yew]

[slow berry]

i hella get big red here if i had spent a thousand years defending humanity i WOULD rather turn into a lazeass dog

[hasty needle]

nah, I'd rather sleep for 1-500 years, then come back

[slow berry]

when i was still in uni during the horrible months where everything was fucked up and everyone had One Million Things to do we'd walk and see the dogs just sleeping it up like bastards in the grass basking in the sun and think "damn those motherfuckers have NO classes NO work NO nothing wish that were me"

[jagged badge]

Did he spend 1000 years doing that?

[slow berry]

Probably more, right?

Since before the collapse thru the current day

It was kinda roughing it up with limited resources until we started building it back up but it was around right?

[trim grotto]

He didn't do much defending after the Collapse.

Much of anything at all, really.

[slow berry]

he was getting around to it!!

[trim grotto]

Mm. He wasn't.

[slow berry]

gotta recoup and kill a few iron lords first

[jagged badge]

And most the Golden Age he probably didn’t really have much defending to do surely?

[sick yew]

He was defending Sol of the bad bad people on Titan thats for sure

[trim grotto]

Not from extra-solar threats, as far as we know. Whether he dealt with more domestic threats is... well, we don't know enough of the Golden Age.

[sick yew]

God only knows what would have happened if those 'refugees' made it off planet like could you imagine the disaster it would have been

[trim grotto]

Hm. That was during the Collapse, so in all honestly it wouldn't have made a difference. The Pyramids had already arrived, they just didn't know it yet.

[ember storm]

raspy kinda just a boomer

[sick yew]

Are you saying he shouldnt have shot down the refugee ships??

[slow berry]

i'm just saying that the two ships that didn't go back gave us Neomuna and the Awoken

[ember storm]

he should've shot down more

[sick yew]

It was clearly in the best intrest of humanity (Clovis Bray)

[sick yew]

Precisely

Someone gets it

[slow berry]

If Rasputin had commandeered the exodus green we wouldn't have to deal with the conductor

[sick yew]

Many such cases

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[sick yew]

No Neomuna colony, no Maya experimenting with the Veil, no Maya in the vex net when the Echo crashed, no conductor

[slow berry]

Wrong colour

[sick yew]

Oh

[ember storm]

what happens if i search rasputin destiny in the gif

[trim grotto]

In theory he did it to prevent information from escaping and get a bit more time of calm before system wide panic. But the Collapse happened anyway, so in retrospect, it didn't matter.

At the time... well, Rasputin's protocols set morals aside in times of a Skyshock event.

[slow berry]

It was the indigo

My bad

[jagged badge]

The Exodus Green is the Yang Liwei, the colony ship that became the first Awoken

[ember storm]

why wasnt there an exodus rainbow

[jagged badge]

Homophobia

[trim grotto]

Hm. Well, technically, there still wouldn't be a Conductor. Because without the Awoken, we'd all be dead now anyway, the Witness would be alive, and there'd be no Echoes.

[jagged badge]

😔

[slow berry]

I always know its the green and indigo ships that did stuff (black is failsafe and blue is a crucible map) but i get them flipped around

[ember storm]

yeah but it would've been done by nezarec which is a net profit

[slow berry]

Wait

[ember storm]

actually what if savathun just gave the veil to someone else

[slow berry]

Think about it

[ember storm]

like

what if she actually just left it in chicago

[slow berry]

If rasputin omega nuked the traveler wouldnt that technically save the universe

no traveler = no final shape

[sick yew]

Provided he could have destroyed the Traveler in the first place

[slow berry]

just shoot it again if it doesnt work

repeat ad nauseum

[sick yew]

But even without the Final Shape you still have like the Hive or the Vex who would spell doom for the universe sooner or later

[dim minnow]

The Witness could just do things the hard way. Without the Light, no one would even be capable of standing against it

[ember storm]

assuming that the time loop wouldn't have already happened

do we still have no clear explanation on that btw

why elsie specifically anyway

[slow berry]

trolled

[trim grotto]

And the Witness would still be alive commanding the Pyramid Fleet.

Lesser of two evils, perhaps, but we certainly got the good outcome here.

[slow berry]

Actually isnt it sort of the timeloop where everyone gets timelooped but Elsie kept the memories bc of the pouka

Then again a lot of elsie lore is not very well explained

[trim grotto]

Elsie knew she was looping but could not properly remember the details.

[slow berry]

Maybe elsie just has the reading steiner

[jagged badge]

And then humanity goes extinct, and the Witness probably just goes on killing more species

[ember storm]

yeah but it's gonna be super bored and annoyed so i call that a win

[slow berry]

so true

[hasty needle]

after the collapse rasputin was split up, not defending

[heady gyro]

On the new smg that's like green, there's a lore tab about this gun seller that says the tower is gonna get a hard lesson because the people are gonna take the city back from the tower. Is this like hinting a new dlc or??

Hates the traveler for attracting all kinds of freaky threats, but i feel like he forgot that the vex, hive and cabal are conquerer races and woulda found earth eventually

[frigid sparrow]

Qua Nilus II. Considering it was a hidden agent who investigated the gun bunker, I'd imagine dissent may get quelled rather quickly.

[dim minnow]

Man that guy is a nut

"OH yeah we'll totally overthrow the immortal godslayers and take this city back and kick the aliens out"

[sick yew]

Lakshmi would be proud

[dapper moss]

why is barrow-dyad not a weapon of sorrow?

[dim minnow]

Weapons of Sorrow tend to be normal weapons transformed

Also, Barrow seems to be a living creature

[sick yew]

Is Osteo an exception then?

[dim minnow]

Osteo could very well be made from a Veist smg

[sick yew]

Could be

[ember storm]

Osteo is more like a specific recreation of one rather than a "true" one though

aside from whatever bungie spews in twabs, the only confirmed WoS ingame are Thorn, Necrochasm, and Last Word if we didn't take it back from Enkaar

i'd basically just call Jana-14 a copycat who just genuinely lost her mind outside of any hive corruption

[slim girder]

Barrow dyad is considered as a "prototype" to a weapon of sorrow. It's a living weapon and it is hungry but it's just missing the other key component of being a human weapon.

Which it is not

[slim girder]

Osteo is a true weapon of sorrow. Jana 14 is just as much a murderer as dredgen yor was the only difference is because she is a warlock it's been theorised that she's been revising the books of sorrow as we see in the flavour text of the osteo.
The theory is that Jana 14 owned a veist SMG but after taking those corrupted tissue samples of her colleague that infection "leaked" on to her and her weapon causing it to change and the bones of her victims she has then fed to the weapon are what truly made it into what it is

[queen walrus]

cant seem to find any neat videos on Shayura lore, i saw myelins but its 4 years old and i kno theres been updates. Is there a good way of reading up on it in chronological order? the ishtar thing seems tonot be updated at least when i tyr to search her name

[dim minnow]

you want to try and find what order the items with her lore in released

[modern lodge]

Didn't notice but in the plaguelands you can see house of Wolves banners

Skolas is still alive right?

Also something something maya pushed out the fallen

[dim minnow]

if you can call the Scorned Wolf alive

[modern lodge]

True but my point stands

[dim minnow]

but we don't know if he's just staying in the PoE for now or not

[modern lodge]

Poe?

[dim minnow]

Prison of Elders

[slow berry]

Alive-ish

More like undead

[modern lodge]

I would of thought he fucked off after fikrul died

[slow berry]

We don't know if he can leave

[modern lodge]

There's either an actual lore reason or bungie is being lazy

For the wolves banner in plaguelands

Also the dusk eliknsi are there

[dim minnow]

they changed quite a lot in the Plaguelands aesthetically

[modern lodge]

Apart from the grey/ less red Siva?

And the metal no longer being meltad down into those lava rivers

[dim minnow]

the lava solidified

[modern lodge]

Well yeah, the metal works feeding Siva shut down

[dim minnow]

the entire place is pretty much dead

[modern lodge]

Which is to be expected

[dim minnow]

which fits given it was quarantined for years

[modern lodge]

Is it dead or dormant?

[dim minnow]

I'd say dead

the dialogue seems to indicate SIVA isn't coming back

[modern lodge]

Yet the psions say that she would be scary with Siva and something about stealing inert siva

Inert isn't dead btw

Looking at it purely from this and not nostalgia bait or anything, it sounds open ended to me

The dead Siva to me personally refers to the Siva constructs

Because dormant clusters still exist and we even found Siva in Nessus

[dim minnow]

it seems her main plan to build a sort of paracausal satellite (which SIVA would helo a lot in)

[modern lodge]

There was a collectible somewhere

[modern lodge]

Also the fact that she is losing control over the echo and the vex

Siva would be a good go-to for construction and what not

[ember storm]

i mean she also has complete control of radiolaria

[modern lodge]

Isn't that with the help of the echo?

[ember storm]

i will preface by saying i haven't played the game since heresy

did something happen

[modern lodge]

She's losing control of the echo

Like it even hurts her to use it I believe

Not too sure about the second bit

[ember storm]

so she's completely useless in her entirety?

[modern lodge]

Getting there I reckon

[ember storm]

no vex are under her control whatsoever?

[modern lodge]

Some are

But they are getting sick of her shit

[ember storm]

wasnt her body made by the echo

[modern lodge]

That's why the tharsis reformation exists in renegades

[modern lodge]

Couldn't tell you

[ember storm]

like it just landed in nessus and then she spawned

[modern lodge]

Also possible false memory but I think some vex want her dead

[modern lodge]

I think a copy that was floating around the vex net got a hold of it then bosh

I'm not 100 percent so I may be wrong

[slim girder]

Kinda. She used the power of the echo to manipulate radiolaria into the form of the body she wanted.

[ember storm]

so wouldnt that mean she just dies if she loses control

[slim girder]

She has memories of lakshmi so made the body from that which is why we see her and even saint mistook her for lakshmi the first time

[slim girder]

Yes. If she didn't have her echo the weight of the vex net would bear down on her

It takes substantial force of will to exist in the vex net as a sole being

The echo gives her that power

Not to mention it's also a paracausal force

[modern lodge]

Imagine being able to drag a 4d entity into 3d space just for milk aliens to be sick of your shit

Did some of her vex try to kill her or atleast being like hey you suck, uninstall

[slim girder]

In rengades we're going to meet vex who broke away from maya if that counts

[modern lodge]

I wonder if the tharsis vex speak

Or do they just beep and you

Bleep blorp

[slim girder]

If they're smart enough to start wearing clothes and play cards i'd like to think they might be able to speak some form of broken english or something

[heady gyro]

It'd be interesting to get a season that addressed the city's residents unaddressed problems, which maybe could result in a civilian vanguard next to zavala, ikora and crow. It's weird destiny rising was able to show lightbearer v mortal tension before the main timeline game

[slim girder]

I think that guy had some screws loose. Says the tower keeps the power out of the city's hand yet is stocking weapons that if let off inside the city such as telesto or two tailed fox would cause more harm than good

I think the city civilians are mostly good but these weapons are kept in vaults for a reason as if a civilain fucks around with it and dies they're not coming back

[sick yew]

Wdym?
There was an actual civil war within the last city back in the day which is the reason the Consensus were formed to begin with

And there have been plenty of narrative beats regarding the disconnect or tensions between Humans in the last city and Lightbearers even beyond Season of Splicer

But after Final Shape things calmed down for obvious reasons

[river surge]

Wonder what will happend with Maya echo

We either destroy it or perserve it

[sick yew]

We gotta get to Maya in the first place

[river surge]

Maya is already is

...

[slim girder]

Best guess is it'll be destroyed. Unlike the echo of Riis it can't really be used to rebuild As far as we know and even the entity inside the Echo doesn't like Maya. I wouldn't be surprised if once we deal with Maya the echo implodes itself because the memory of the captain housed inside it wouldn't want anyone to possess the power Maya had

[river surge]

Maya already is losing badly

[slow berry]

it probably goes into the collective vexnet to help make more independent vex as a way to keep our allied/sentient vex an ongoing topic

rather than a species with very limited population

[slim girder]

Vex don't like that.
The main goal of the vex is to make everything else vex and they are more like a machine with trillions of moving parts.
Individuality would be bad for them and we can even see the rest of the collective is not happy with maya taking their own away from them.

Independent vex are cool don't get me wrong but the main vex collective would not even entertain the idea of it.

[slow berry]

yeah but what is the collective gonna do about it

[slim girder]

About the echo? Well it's not vex so I'd assume they'd just assimilate it because it's something they can't work around as paracausality is the only thing that has stopped them from truly winning in our system

The less of it there is the better for them

They already deal with us but now someone is running rampant in their own system stealing their own people away

As for the tharsis vex I don't think the collective would care so long as the source of more vex breaking away was cut off.

[river surge]

And about the other echoes

That are not in the system

Are we deadass gonna have expansions based on them again

[slim girder]

Most likely not. The only echo left to deal with is Mayas.

That whole thing was supposed to serve as an epilogue to the witnesses defeat and that's over now

[river surge]

Still they are outside of system

Any individual can use them in the wrong

[sick yew]

One Echo is in Sol, with Maya
The other is on its way/already at Riis so its a non issue for now
And the third is destroyed

[slim girder]

Eramis wants nothing to do with us no matter how many times we tried to reason with her. So I doubt she'd use her echo to hurt us or even doing anything at all because we'd then show up

[sick yew]

In a few years when all is set and done ill stop by Riis and if they have rebuild it ill blow it up again out of spite

[river surge]

I will wanan reclaim Torabatl

Can we do that

[sick yew]

Probably not

I doubt theres much left to even save

[river surge]

😔

[slim girder]

Eramis was given a second chance by the witness and she escaped, we then captured and let her go with the trust she'll take her house to rebuild Riis. If she breaks it then I doubt she'd survive another encounter

[river surge]

Eramis escaped death so many times its insane

[slim girder]

Torobatl is still on the cabals agenda. But as Alex said there's most likely not much left to save.
However it's not really about saving more reclaiming it so that they can at least have their home planet back

Could very well go the same direction as Riis and they start rebuilding from nothing

[old void]

I'm a bit lost since I haven't played since Witch queen. What was the axe that Crow used to serve a darkness hand in the final shape?

[jagged badge]

In Season of the Risen, Saladin bequeathed his Iron Lord axe to Crow when he had to go serve under Caiatl. Years later it pays off with Crow using it in that scene in TFS

[modern lodge]

Bum, should of been mine

Singlehandedly destroyed the replication facility btw

[slim girder]

Isn't it just another axe?
Like Saladin used that axe when he fought that other cabal valus while serving under caiatl.

[jagged badge]

Oh, maybe

Point is it was from Saladin to Crow because of that event, due to the interactions between them that season and the lesson Saladin wanted to impart on him

[slim girder]

Oh yeah I get the point. Crow is like an apprentice to Saladin and in the final shape we even heard some of those teachings between the two.

[eager trout]

Considering Xivu gets stronger because of the one way we know how to do things, no.

[eager trout]

To be fair, the first time it's like the Guardian didn't even try. Just saw her get frozen and said "yep, she's dead".

[trim grotto]

To be fair, one would not expect someone to survive being frozen in a giant block of magic crystal with no way to breathe.

Plus she wouldn't have survived or escaped if the Witness didn't pull a Johnny Silverhand

https://tenor.com/view/wake-the-fuxx-up-samurai-gif-20053713

[eager trout]

But we already had experience with Stasis

[sick yew]

I was about to ask which megacorp building the witness nuked

[trim grotto]

barely

[eager trout]

Everyone knows simply freezing an enemy will only stop them until they thaw out

[sick yew]

But based Cyberpänk reference Mael

!feed @trim grotto

[dense pike]

feeding MaeIstronnar-3, Hunter Cryptarch 1 units of ether

[sick yew]

Take an ether

[trim grotto]

wow thanks an entire ether

[sick yew]

Straight up