📚lore-discussion

[strong tendon]

Discuss.

[worldly river]

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet but the repeated binary code that corrupts the text in the Fissures page of the As Without lore book (the one compiling all the data pad entries) is just the binary for "III" repeated
Not the number 3, but the triple-I numeral III, as in it's referring to the member of the Nine

[strong tendon]

What does that lore book entail?

[tropic sorrel]

I have a question, hope somebody can help me

Did the Nine give the guardian the ability to vote as one of them?

That means that the guardian might be the next emissary?

[blazing wasp]

I don't think that's even implied anywhere

[frigid sparrow]

it's various different data logs
Distortions is about the hidden analyzing the newly independent vex, and their fascination with the taken.
Fissures is another investigation, presumably by Omar Saint Croix (a hidden agent), further investigating Maya's vex.
Treacherous Contacts is from a hidden agent who's been investigating Cabal activity on mars
Decompiled is interpreted messages from Drifter's Ghost, and its thoughts from Episode Heresy-Edge of Fate about Drifter's role

[frigid sparrow]

pretty explicitly not. the nine needed III to vote for Lodi as their next emissary, as well as the guardian becoming their weapon.

[dim minnow]

the vote on us as the Weapon was a yes without III, but the vote for Lodi as Emissary was a tie so they needed III

let me pull up a summary of the votes

[frigid sparrow]

It was a both for both to happen though, was it not?

[dim minnow]

yes, but the votes are separate

while some voted yes or no for both, some voted yes on us but no on Lodi

they were killing two birds with one stone and making two major decisions in a single session

[strong tendon]

No. We were already voted on as the weapon.

Lodi needed III’s vote

In hearing IIIs message, “the weapon” got its objective and Lodi got his vote for emissary

[dim minnow]

I - Yes for Weapon, Yes for Lodi
II - Yes for Weapon, Yes for Lodi
III - Presumed yes for both, but couldn't make the vote
IV - Yes for Weapon, Yes for Lodi
V - No for Weapon, No for Lodi (predictably)
VI -No for Weapon, No for Lodi (in a mean way)
VII - Yes for Weapon, No for Lodi
VIII - Yes for Weapon, No for Lodi
IX - Yes for Weapon, Yes for Lodi (obviously)

[strong tendon]

Oh VI is soooo the lord of every nothing

They’re such a prick

[dim minnow]

out of all the Nine, V and VI are the only ones who voted no on the Weapon

so it was a 6 vs 2 on that vote

in our favor

[strong tendon]

I noticed that V and VI are just difficult

[dim minnow]

meanwhile all the inner orbits voted for Lodi while the outer orbits all voted against him

since III wasn't there, it meant the vote was a 4 vs 4 tie

[strong tendon]

@dim minnow why are V and VI against us as the weapon do you think?

[dim minnow]

V, VI, VII, and VIII are all the outer orbits who are working with each other

the Nine are divided into two factions

it is interesting that despite this, VII and VIII still voted for us

[strong tendon]

Yes but VII and VIII seem somewhat reasonable

V and VI just feel completely against us

[dim minnow]

the Nine's main goal is to free themselves from their reliance on us

the outer orbits seem to take this approach with some disdain towards us

[strong tendon]

I just think V and VI have some devious shi going on. I for sure believe VI is the LoeN

[dim minnow]

there is some implication on that yes

you are aware that the outer orbits conspired to have Maya kill III (or IV but she ended up killing the former) right?

[strong tendon]

I am not aware

What?

[dim minnow]

in the raid Ghost Shell lore

I think

they were the ones who brought Maya to Kepler where she killed III

should also note that III was dead for like a month before we arrived

[strong tendon]

Wow. The nine work in weird ways. Even conspiring to kill their own

But they must know that in by killing III, it must release them

[dim minnow]

not quite sure why they did it yet

maybe they wanted to break the majority the inner orbits had over them

[strong tendon]

Be interesting if we had an expansion focused on each on the members of the nine

Edge of fate about III. Presumably Renegades will focus on IV

But then which member would shattered cycle and the alchemist focus on?

[eager trout]

Shouldn't there be a near-infinite number of Nine-like beings?

[hard sigil]

potentially? we don't know if it's particularly rare that the dark matter that makes them up happened to get caught in an orbit like it has, and even the nine themselves don't know if they're alone. If there were other dark matter entities out there, they're also likely confined to their own celestial bodies, and with no nearby source of paracausality are probably stuck like that forever

[dim minnow]

the Nine need life in their home-system

so systems that have had their life wiped out, or never had life on them to begin with, would not have Nine-like beings

[hard sigil]

that too

[dim minnow]

or more accurately, their Nine-like beings would not be "alive"

because even though the gravity wells allowed them to think, they did not become conscious until life had begun to appear on these worlds

[hard sigil]

and anyway the nine themselves want to know if they are alone

`But – present problem – distracts

from future questions

Many systems – in motion

Too numerous to – all – be

empty

The question remains – in the wrinkled fabric – why Sol?

[The color fades from sight.]

II does not see - other seeds along the bend – calls

Unanswered

[There isn't an answer in you.]

Are we – alone

We – do not – know`

or at least, II does

[dim minnow]

strange though, the Cabal knew of them so we know their reach is very far

[eager trout]

Why did the Vex do this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/MWgvzA-Z4LQ

[dim minnow]

Technically it was a mentally broken simulation of Maya who did it

This simulation wanted to interrogate Clovis for information about Clarity Control so she could send it back to the Vex

[green cobalt]

do we have an update on the Sol Divisive Vex's status? i know they were all crazy about the witness so what are they possibly doing now?

[hard sigil]

probably joining back in with the Hezen Collective

or chilling in the black garden

[dim minnow]

They could be continuing their search for knowledge on harnessing paracausality without being held back by the Witness' whims

[green cobalt]

had they not chosen to follow the witness? i would think they're more held back now

[dim minnow]

Their relationship with the Witness offered many benefits like the Black Heart, but also required their servitude

[green cobalt]

ohhh

[dim minnow]

Then there was the time when the Witness sent its Taken to wipe out the Mind behind the Heart's development

[ember storm]

it was a give and take relationship

in that both parties were perfectly willing to fight the other if it were at all beneficial at any time

[dim minnow]

The Sol Divisive just mainly worshipped the Witness

Though the SD would kinda do their own thing at times

They were really just pawns to the Witness

[fair moat]

I feel like I’m losing my mind, but I’m pretty sure there was lore somewhat implying golgoroth was female

Can’t find shit about it though

Maybe I am just insane

[hard sigil]

from what I can tell, all hive are born as female and become male when and if they molt into knights, with Oryx being an exception as he takes on the King molt, and Xivu Arath, who is still referred to using feminine pronouns

and as ogres are mutated thralls, Golgy would be female

[fair moat]

I love you

Thank you

[hard sigil]

of course this is with a heavy asterisk as their biology and societal structure is very different from ours

and I doubt gender as a concept matters much to the average hive

but this implies that 2/3 of the hive pantheon are trans so that's a win

[fair moat]

LGBT friendly

Plus oryx is a trans king

Literally

[trim grotto]

There is no known connection between gender and morphs besides the King and Mother morphs.

[hard sigil]

that's what I'm saying with the asterisk

[trim grotto]

I'm saying it because it's not correct. We have, for example, male Wizards. And not just Nokris.

[hard sigil]

oh wait yeah you're right I forgor

[sick yew]

Okay so I assume I got at least one thing mixed up here
In the newest Kepler sidequest 'Declassification' our Ghost remarks how surprised he is that Axion Bolts were a thing in the golden age already which Lodi implies is something they worked on

But arent Axion Bolts also a Warlock grenade?

Obviously they couldnt have been working with the Light back in the pre golden age so whats up with that

[slim girder]

Void is all about gravity and push and pull. So it's not a huge leap that scientists were already experimenting with this power in the universe.
Void light is exclusive to guardians though.

Same with arc. There's a difference to regular arc and then arc light

[sick yew]

Ah ok, so Axion Bolts were likely an existing thing that Guardians just started utilizing, enhanced with the light

[slim girder]

Most likely. Like Nella was working on what became the graviton lance. Another void weapon.

[sick yew]

True but thats just a fancy gun, not really anything to do with the light

[slim girder]

Black holes and gravetic applications were already being researched but in destiny's universe we know this force as the void

Even the bullet that hit JFK was reported to have a gravitational pull.

[lofty badge]

is it also not canon that guardian's light are imbued into the guns they use?

[sick yew]

They can do that

Literally Last Word

[lofty badge]

nice, what about sunshot that turns foes to ash?

[sick yew]

Shin Malphurs Last Word btw not ours

He himself isn't a lightbearer but Jarren Wards light still shines strong in it to this day

[sick yew]

Not sure on Sunshot lore but it's possible

[ember storm]

i mean some guns just do that

like graviton just shoots black holes

sunshot just does that

sunshot was made by the same person who made sunbracers, unsurprisingly

A gun. She would forge a gun, next. It would speak like her Hammer. And burn like fire. The ring of jade eyes closed on her. Liu Feng laughed, her arms open for a fiery embrace.```

so it could've been constructed and embued with light but that doesn't mean we have to manually insert our light into it when we fire

[hard sigil]

iirc our light naturally affects the effectiveness of our weapons and armour

hence Light Level

[ember storm]

yeah that's an in-universe thing but it's not literally light level

it's just the fact that when taking on a hive knight, it'd take 10 crucible redjacks to kill it, or one guardian using the exact same weapon

guardians being paracausal inherently adds a power boost but that doesn't mean every weapon perk or exotic thing is one of our own abilities

sometimes things are just built different

[amber zenith]

is ikora the only warlock npc we have in game rn?

[dim minnow]

Do you count Osiris?

[amber zenith]

is he still in game? i know he projects into the lighthouse with saint but

[dim minnow]

He dies serve an npc role in Lightfall

[amber zenith]

oh neomuna

you right

i just think its interesting theres not nearly as much warlock or titan representation. i know orin, saint and zavala are titans, but essentially everyone else is a hunter right?

[ember storm]

drifter is drifter

elsie isn't a lightbearer at all

[amber zenith]

lmao

[ember storm]

in terms of class identity, Savathun would be a warlock

Luzaku is a wizard (warlock)

[amber zenith]

eris is somewhere in between warlock and hunter afaik

[ember storm]

she's just a hunter

she literally just wears long pants

being smart doesn't make you a warlock

[amber zenith]

tbf if i could wear pants as a lock i would too though, but true

[hard sigil]

there's a Hidden warlock outside the enclave

not every day we get guardian npcs that aren't narrative characters

[frigid sparrow]

There's hidden of all classes there and in rhulks pyramid

[frigid sparrow]

No titan rep is CRAZY

They got saint, shaxx, zavala, and Saladin hanging around the tower alone

And as you said recently got Orin back

[amber zenith]

i never said there was no titan rep, i named 3 in that comment alone lmao

[frigid sparrow]

Hunters don't have nearly the same rep

[amber zenith]

but hunters are EVERYWHERE

[frigid sparrow]

We got Crow, a Micah-10 hologram, and Shaw fucking Han

Don't even think of mentioning Shiro that fucker hasn't been in the game since roi

And cayde died twice

Wait AND titans got Sloane

[amber zenith]

ana and eris are also hunters, afaik ana is still alive but idk if shes still in game anywhere. same with shin malphur

[frigid sparrow]

Okay lowkey forgot about Ana you're right

Shaw han isn't nearly important enough to be considered since I don't think he's even had a lore mention since the last word mission

[amber zenith]

i did forget about sloane

is he not the new light guy?

[frigid sparrow]

And eris I don't count since we don't see her do hunter stuff

[frigid sparrow]

No that's Shaw Han

[amber zenith]

thats who i was talking about

why does sloan get taken powers and we dont btw

[frigid sparrow]

We do

[amber zenith]

outside of designing a new subclass

[frigid sparrow]

And Sloane is also in constant torment

[jagged badge]

Because she chose to get Taken. It was an incredible risky move

Her Light fends it off and we can see from last episode she still struggled with it

[frigid sparrow]

Like the whole point of her in heresy was going "yeah you guys need to be careful about that shit"

But yeah I don't count eris as hunter rep because she doesn't really engage with anything to do with hunters

[amber zenith]

are our characters not stronger guardians according to lore? theoretically should we not also be able to handle it?

[frigid sparrow]

Osiris we actually have seen do warlock stuff which is why I tentatively say he's warlock rep

[jagged badge]

It’s not about physical strength

[amber zenith]

he is a warlock

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah but it's about representation

Like, eris doesn't really represent any hunter stuff in the game

She just was a hunter

Osiris actively represented warlock as a class in CoO and the death of Sundance

Anyways I have to get back to work I'm staying after inventory YIPPEE

[amber zenith]

"stronger" doesnt necessarily refer to physical strength. afaik we have access to more paracausal abilities than other guardians that we see in game, we certainly see stronger representation of certain supers and stuff like ikora has her massive nova and cayde seems to be able to pop golden gun on demand, but no one with the range or control we have

also, were the ones consistently used as the "spear" for the vanguard which tells me that our guardians abilities far exceed the average

[jagged badge]

We exceed the average simply because the average is still mastering one subclass, whereas we’re adept with multiple

But generally we’re pretty on par with the named, important characters

[fresh zephyr]

Can anyone give me a top 10 list of like the strongest characters lore-wise, e.g witness, the guardian, oryx. Etc

[sick yew]

Powerscaling in Destiny is pretty rough

Basically anything thats Paracausal goes into the top 10 list

Traveler, Guardians, Witness, Rhulk, Winnower (probably we dont know that much about them yet) etc etc

[ember storm]

The immortal snail

[sick yew]

Naturally

Always loved that guy

[river surge]

Even if I try I might be 100% wrong since powerscaling in this game is the worst I have seen

U have gods, and then u have Gods

And then GODS

[sick yew]

Shit just is

[frigid sparrow]

1. The Witness
2. Riven of a Thousand Voices
3. Rhulk, First Disciple of the Witness
4. Savathun, The Witch Queen (With Quria, Blade Transform)
5. Mithrax the Forsaken, Kell of Kells (Curse of Nezarec)
6. Oryx, The Taken King
7. Koregos, The Worldline
8. Eramis, Kell of Salvation (With Echo)
9. Maya Sundaresh, The Conductor (With Echo)
10. Taniks, Of No House, The Scarred, The Shadow Thief, Perfected, The Nightmare, Reborn The Abomination, Herald Of Finality

[sick yew]

Mithrax???

[frigid sparrow]

(I'm having fun here )

[river surge]

MITHRAX ON 5TH?

Where is Nezarec

Bro is immortal

[sick yew]

Where the fuck is Randal the Vandal bro

Top 1

[frigid sparrow]

idk like 12th probably

[sick yew]

Also we cannot forget the Sweeper Bot

[frigid sparrow]

for nez

mithrax is peak fiction so nezy in his body is better than nez

[river surge]

Also Rhulk>Riven imp

[sick yew]

Dude will low diff the Winnower solo with the broom

[sick yew]

None of that is serious bro

[river surge]

Oh ok

Thought it was serious

[frigid sparrow]

you know it's not serious because I didn't put mithrax #1

[sick yew]

Precisely

[frigid sparrow]

nor Quria by its lonesome

[sick yew]

Cant forget Val Ca'uor either, dude was a raid boss so he beats out Savathun by default

[frigid sparrow]

never forget, INSURRECTION PRIME was one of the closest enemies we've had to wiping out the last city

[sick yew]

Technically true

[river surge]

never forget TANIKS is prob still alive

[sick yew]

eeeeeeh

[frigid sparrow]

literally wiping out the city btw

like that's its wipe mechanic

[sick yew]

I mean id find it hilarious
But its unlikely

[frigid sparrow]

[river surge]

Taniks never dies btw, he always comes back when

Oryx ship can destroy the whole system if we blow up the engines

Or reactor

[ember storm]

How is that powerscaling

[sick yew]

Theoretically*

No no he has a point Waltz

[ember storm]

You’re saying a guy is strong because you can blow up his car

[sick yew]

The Dreadnaught should be up on the list

[river surge]

Fr

[frigid sparrow]

I mean if he had a weird physiological paracausal connection to his car

[river surge]

Also the Witness pyramid ship

[ember storm]

Akka being lower than his hallowed out corpse stuffed with engines

[river surge]

It survived The Traveler blast

[ember storm]

It didn’t actually

[sick yew]

My 2001 Ford Fiesta would be considered a genuine menace in the D2 universe trust me

[ember storm]

The traveler tore a whole directly through it

That’s why RoN happens

[sick yew]

Not through it

[river surge]

I mean its still there, somehow Nezarec ship crashed down while still being intact

[river surge]

So thats a skill issue

[ember storm]

It’s not functional as a ship anymore

[sick yew]

That is true

[ember storm]

Do you say the titanic survived because the general shape is still at the bottom of the ocean

[sick yew]

Obviously

[river surge]

Yes

[sick yew]

If ship shaped it ship

[ember storm]

Oh by the way Alex I wanted to tell you earlier

[river surge]

Fr

[frigid sparrow]

what if the shadow legion just clones explicator

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

It says gullible on the Discord Nitro button

[river surge]

What if we are clones

[sick yew]

Oh shit?

Hangon

Yo where my lungs at

[river surge]

The Fog

[sick yew]

Thats not too niche of a reference in the big 25 is it?

[ember storm]

Here let me help

Mine tur 💥

[sick yew]

Thank god

[ember storm]

Did you buy the card game

[river surge]

Close enough, welcome back The Witness

[sick yew]

I did not

[ember storm]

Casual

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

I also didn’t

[uneven canyon]

This isn’t specifically a question on the lore, but I’m trying to list all the human/human adjacent factions that Lightbearers could associate with to generate ideas
So far I gave

Vanguard
Dredgens
New Monarchy
Future War Cult
Dead Orbit
Awoken
Wild Lightbearers
Iron Wolves
Iron Lords/War Lords
The Hidden

[vital lodge]

Does the computer that allows exo "reboots" still work

Like the thing that would make a Saint-15

[hard sigil]

theres also the Concordat and the various guardian orders

[vital lodge]

Aren't the hidden a branch of vanguard?

[hard sigil]

unofficially, yes

[vital lodge]

They work for Ikora dont they?

[hard sigil]

formerly. as Ikora has assumed vanguard commander, she "retired" from the hidden. Chalco Yong is the leader now

[vital lodge]

Actually how much do we even know about them? Is it just a bunch of void hunters?

[uneven canyon]

Can you list them?

[hard sigil]

there's guardians of all three classes in it

Ikora has a titan and warlocks with her in the Cutscene where they investigate the train at the start of eof, for example

[hard sigil]

Hunters rarely form groups outside of fireteams so there's not really any orders for them. I guess you could consider Dead End Cure one?
Warlocks have the Praxic Order and Thanatonauts
Titans have the most structure for this. The Firebreak Order, Sunbreakers and Pilgrim Guard

I'm probably forgetting a few

[twin hedge]

The lore of Destiny gets so dark. Just look at the lore of VoG

[dim minnow]

kid named Acts of Mercy:

I used to really like that one until I realized that Fera turning bad was purely Saladin's fault

like, it almost makes you think that the point of the book is that Saladin should have killed a 14 year old child for the sake of enforcing some draconian law

the whole "Mercy for an enemy should never come at the cost of their victims" thing and all

but I'm finding it really hard to connect that theme to the book

unless the theme is just that Saladin is an idiot

[eager trout]

What did the child do?💀

[eager trout]

I mean, he's a Titan

[sick yew]

What's that supposed to mean

[ember storm]

honestly saladin just fucking sucks as a mentor, zavala was the happiest in his life when he left him

his only advice is through "i shot someone i met as a child" anecdotes which culminate in hindsight is 20:20

[dim minnow]

well you see, in the Dark Age, humanity had regressed to a point where the crime of stealing is met with death

particularly because in Fera's case, her stealing livestock from a village was going to lead to starvation

however, Saladin, upon confronting her chose to spare her life and taught her to hunt

and the typical good values of community and such

saying that standing together like a pack of wolves is how we survive

we also learn that Fera stole from the village because a Warlord was forcing her to

said Warlord had killed her brother

anyways, Saladin would have her take him to the Warlord's camp where he slaughtered everyone

granted he told Fera to stay behind, but he really could have at least checked to make sure she wasn't watching

then after that he left thinkign that she would grow up to be a good vassal for the Iron Lords

only to come back 30-50 years later to see she had pretty much taken the Warlord's place and starved that village to death because they cut off her ear and kicked her out

because I guess Saladin couldn't have been bothered to actually make sure things would be alright between them

[river surge]

Man u guys know this games lore

I love it

[sick yew]

Lmao

[lofty badge]

do we know how many humans really are left on both earth and Neptune?

or well just in the system in general

[slim girder]

No exact numbers unfortunately. But I would have to estimate a few million maybe? Just based on the sizes of each city.

[lofty badge]

that is honestly not a high number damn

but makes sense when the rest of earth is still swarming with Fallen outlaws and hive broods and cabal renegades and the few taken

[slim girder]

Sol is still a very dangerous place. Only now have people like devrim even began talking about deploying civilian troops out to places.

[lofty badge]

makes sense

[next bobcat]

wordline zero

koregos the worldline

connection?

forgive me if this is obvious i know nothing about either of them

[slim girder]

No. They aren't related.

[next bobcat]

ok

What's up with koregos anyway

is it under maya's control?

[slim girder]

Yes. It is part of her choral vex and the goal was for it to digitize the unknown space the raid takes place in.

[next bobcat]

which is in the singularity, correct

?

[slim girder]

Yes. Or the remains of III as people refer to it.

[lofty badge]

huh

kepler looks cool but i can't be bothered with going back to it much

[hard sigil]

Worldline is just a physics term. it's "path" objects take as time progresses

could consider it the axis of the fourth dimension in some ways

[lofty badge]

Can the vex even Digitize unkown space /the fourth Dimension? Since idk if it falls into being paracousel?

[hard sigil]

neither of those things are paracausal

[lofty badge]

true

[hard sigil]

and Maya's plan with tdp was to digitise that portion of Unknown Space

[lofty badge]

got cha

[eager trout]

I wouldn't really blame him. It's not like he taught her to be like that. If she did that, it's on her.

[ember storm]

i mean he knew she was a thief taking food from a starving village and just left after killing the men giving her orders, he made no effort to return her or try explaining it to the village

[eager trout]

Oh

[ember storm]

he just left & so when she tried going back, they kicked her out

all saladin told her was the wolves would protect her, so she sicced them on the village

i mean if you kinda stretch it the message could be something like "looking for a peaceful solution in the moment can't come before considering the consequences long term" or something

but he just used the story to convince crow to stop feeling bad for hive lightbearers getting mindforked (who were also clean slates like any normal guardian and could've been coerced away from Savathun, like Luzaku)

[mild junco]

Why is Crota... blue?

[ember storm]

mostly green, but it's because his body at that point was barely holding itself together due to a lack of proper tribute and sustenance provided by his followers (since Eris had us systematically tearing down his army)

at that point he was little more than a literal skeleton housed in soulfire

bungie just kinda dropped the ball in his D2 model being a normal hive knight colored green because they didnt wanna put in the effort ig

i mean, the first time bringing him back was the Nightmare of Crota for Shadowkeep, which kinda made sense as it was a manifestation of humanity's trauma regarding the Great Disaster (when Crota still had his normal body)

but then they just reused that same model for the Crota's End reprised raid which sucks

[mild junco]

What prevents hive gods from getting their own sustenance? Does it absolutely have to be from acolytes and followers? Can Crota or Xivu Arath just nuke some defenseless people?

[ember storm]

they can go out and kill on their own, sure, but it gets to a point where they simply can't keep up with what their worm demands

the way hive practice sword logic is built like a pyramid scheme, you get sustenance to feed your own worm and send the rest up to your immediate superior

the higher up you are the more your worm will hunger in exchange for the power it gives you

[slim girder]

Heh. "Pyramid" scheme.

[ember storm]

Crota was specifically already resting in his throne world after he spent a lot of his energy during the Great Disaster

us running around killing all of his heavy hitters right before he was going to be summoned back to normal reality hit him hard

[mild junco]

Ah alright.

Very unrelated. So, we know that Xur is the first emmisarry. Xur's will isn't his, and the things he does are at the will of the nine. So here's my question.

What the fuck does star horse have to do with all this? Why do the nine want to interact with it?

[sleek matrix]

I think the horse is non cannon

[next bobcat]

that's all paraversal stuff

from my limited knowledge the paraverse contains all of bungie's stuff, like d2, halo, marathon etc. and starhorse lets us peek into those other dimensions

but what we get from those dimensions is shifted to accomodate the d2 reality

[mild junco]

So was it just curiosity form the nine?

[next bobcat]

idk if the nine are connected

[mild junco]

They have to be though dont they? If Xur is there, they want him there.

[next bobcat]

it may be that starhorse is the one thing the nine don't understand so they sent xur to investigate

idk this is mainly speculation

the whole 30th anniversary thing is probably not fully cannon

[ember storm]

Starhorse specifically took him on its own, he says so

[mild junco]

Wait

So

[ember storm]

Dares has no relation to the Nine or their goals

[mild junco]

Does this mean that star horse is at least on par with The Nine?

[ember storm]

it would be above considering everything in Dares is being pulled from alternate realities

all the enemies and rewards aren't from our universe

they're not recreations, they're all the real thing

[mild junco]

I mean, they HAVE to be right? The BXR isn't just the battle rifle, and even though they're split the swords clearly arent just the energy swords.

[ember storm]

it is

or at the very least, a reconstruction built from the originals

Forerunner is literally the Halo magnum retrofitted by Banshee after we find it in Eternity

Starhorse is literally giving us these gifts from other realities

[mild junco]

Huh.

What exactly is the Kepler? Is it just a place where tim is fucky?

[ember storm]

i havent bought the dlc

[frigid sparrow]

planet on the edge of the universe (the oort cloud) where a sect of humanity went to some time prior to the collapse, and where some fallen of house exile went instead of pursuing the traveler on earth. the advent of the singularity there is what seems to be causing some of the fucky stuff going on with dark matter

[mild junco]

Is it a specific planet? Or just a planet?

[frigid sparrow]

just a planet, no specific planet named Kepler like it in our world

[mild junco]

Could we have accessed the Kepler at any time and just never really noticed then?

[frigid sparrow]

we never needed to

theoretically, we could go to venus right now, but right now there's no reason to go there

we could go to any number of moons, but those hold no significance to us

we were specifically called to kepler by the nine, more importantly III

[jagged badge]

Kepler is the furthest out in the Solar System we have ever gone

Guardians don’t make journeys like that on a whim

[mild junco]

Well yeah but like

Ws it just sorta

There

[jagged badge]

I don’t think there’s any suggestion it was hidden like Neomuna was but

It just would not have been on anyone’s radar

[frigid sparrow]

if a tree falls in the forest with nobody there, does it still make sound?

[slow berry]

Lotta planetoids and moons in the system

[river surge]

Star horse my beloved

[slow berry]

We can't even reclaim Earth, we don't have time to land on every icy rock out there

[river surge]

Thats sad

I mean we could, but it will take some time

[jagged badge]

Yeah precisely

[jagged badge]

It would take a lot of time and a lot of resources. And those are both things we didn’t and arguably still don’t have a lot of

Humanity was relegated to one city that has almost fallen numerous times

[river surge]

• its pretty much irrelevant since there are a few milion people left

So

[jagged badge]

Guardians put all they have into defending it and sometimes being able to proactively stop threats or patrol around

But we can’t permanently hold much territory outside the City

[river surge]

Also love that pfp

[strong tendon]

I hope the alchemist takes place in the last city. If it’s about Maya trying to swap the ages.

But prolly not

[frigid sparrow]

[clear musk]

I'm not too big on lore but are there more ghosts being created? Or was it just a massive amount and no more ghosts are being created

[trim grotto]

The latter. It was a big one time event.

[clear musk]

Ohhhhhhh... I see

So it's highly unlikely new guardians are being born/made

Is there any reason as to why the Traveler hasn't made more? Feels like it'd be an obvious solution

[trim grotto]

Oh no, there are new Lightbearers being raised even now. Just look at Crow. He's only, what, five?

Ghosts have been searching for their Chosen since their creation. Some of those Chosen may not have even died yet.

[clear musk]

Ohhhhhh

I see

I didn't think ghosts might be finding someone who's yet to die

[strong tendon]

Why doesn’t Maya try to command any other races? Why does she only use vex?

[trim grotto]

Certainly. To harken back to Crow, he was once Prince Uldren Sov of the Awoken of the Reef, and only died at the end of our venture to the Tangled Shore. Glint, then known as Pulled Pork - yes, really - was lucky enough to find him within a manner of months.

[ember storm]

Radiolaria is the smallest unit of consciousness in existence, easily manipulated, and self replicating

She quite literally did control humans and exos during Echoes, but it wasn’t as effective since we broke out of her control

Her main idea is to convert everything in the system into radiolaria which can then be tooled to her whims later

She isn’t literally planning on ruling over milk robots

[clear musk]

I see...

I always thought ghosts had been constantly made

Thank you^^

[strong tendon]

I see. I was just thinking because scorn and shadow legion seem like they’d be pretty easy to command with the echo

[ember storm]

There was a couple lines here and there that could’ve been taken that way, but it was a one time thing

Notably Ghost described Immaru as “torturing young ghosts” back when they knew each other

[ember storm]

I mean idk if there’s even enough in there to command

but the shadow legion in Encore towards the end of the mission have the yokes on them, iirc

[dim minnow]

I wish we knew more about Ghost's backstory before meeting us

we know that he met Saint-14 and knew Immaru

and that he was searching the Cosmodrome a long time for us

[river creek]

do saint and osiris do anything outside of running trials

[dim minnow]

they often help in Vanguard operations

they both had a majpr role in Episode Echoes

[river creek]

o yeah i forgot about that

wait

maybe thats why the story releases on tuesday

because after trials they had to go help take down a solar system level threat

[jagged badge]

Osiris has nothing to do with Trials

He didn’t establish it and he doesn’t run it now

[river creek]

Oh?

[dim minnow]

I mean, didn't he rope Saint into running them when he came back?

[hollow drum]

what the hell is the yellow flood like shit in kepler

incredible

[strong tendon]

Great lore lmao

[frigid sparrow]

some sort of dark matter infused fungus

[dim minnow]

ah man, I must have missed something funny

[strong tendon]

Only fans leaks link

[dim minnow]

[slow berry]

Saint refers to Lodi as a "coworker", huh

[hard sigil]

because he's talking about Ikora

[slow berry]

oh that makes sense

[blazing wasp]

Like, how we got it in the lore or

Did you enter the wrong channel

[clear musk]

ignore that

[eager trout]

When I'm in a pettiness competition and my opponents are:

[slim girder]

Was playing inverted spire and it got me thinking. Cabal can create tech that can suppress the light. In the original inverted spire the red legion were trying to capture the modular modular mind via drilling into the planet. So I wonder if they possibly have tech that might be able to hijack a vex mind.

Just how advanced are they on the technological side.

Failsafe even ran scenarios about if the red legion had succeeded in capturing the vex mind.

[ember storm]

I don’t think they’d have tried taking over the vex itself (Clovis has many experiments detailing why that’s a bad idea), just would’ve tried to reverse engineer the modular weapons

[river creek]

Who/what is the Herald of Finality?

[slow berry]

we don't know

depending on who you ask maybe taniks, or chelchis

[river creek]

How is The Witness petty? I don't know my lore on this subject.

[slow berry]

it really isn't

[river creek]

the witness?

[lofty badge]

do we have any lore why there are still hostile cabal in the EDZ? red legion remants or just renegade Cabal?

not a gameplay reason just being "cause we need stuff to shoot"

[somber pendant]

i think remnants

[lofty badge]

[strong tendon]

I think the patrol is just gameplay reasons

Because in the lake of shadows reprise the shadow legion are in the edz

[ember storm]

i mean they're one in the same at this point

red legion remnants who didn't join up with caiatl have always been rebels of the empire since Chosen

they either stayed loyal to their own leaders or joined up with the shadow legion

[primal mason]

What happened to the knight from heresy who was in derealize

[frigid sparrow]

pulled it into the ascendant plane

[primal mason]

So it could end up as a raid/dungoen/story boss in the future?

[frigid sparrow]

potentially, it seemed to be incredibly strong for its ability to seemingly resist being taken for a while, while simultaneously calling upon its power

although it went fully taken at the end there

but like, he straight up refused to be taken by oryx because he didn't view himself worthy of that kind of power

[hybrid brook]

Oh just realized the H.E.L.M. is being repaired at The Tower

[hard sigil]

it's more that he thought it was "cheating", so refused to be taken and retained a portion of his will, splitting him in two. We kill the remnant of his normal self, leaving the Taken part to fully consume him. We seal him back up in that room, which itself is a kind of airlock, keeping him in the ascendant plane

Oryx Took me then, but I did not crave what he offered. | Take up the knife. It is shaped like [unparalleled victory.] | If it is not done by my own power, it is not earned. Thus has the sword logic ever been taught to us, and thus have lived.

[grand jungle]

so cayde was ulrden before was he still maras brother?

[jagged badge]

I’m sorry?

Cayde?

[grand jungle]

godam nvm

crow"""'

[jagged badge]

Ah

[grand jungle]

idk why i said cayde

[jagged badge]

Uldren Sov is Crow’s past life. However, Crow was given Uldren’s memories by Savathûn. At first he was deeply ashamed and wanted nothing to do with who Uldren was, but over time he came to accept the good and bad, and claims Uldren as part of him

He is shown to have been building a relationship with Mara of his own volition

But it’s important to note that he isn’t Uldren again

[grand jungle]

i remember seeing ulrden n vrow first n it confuse me so hard

[jagged badge]

He’s still his own unique person

[grand jungle]

wait guardians forget they own name in past life but not exos right

[frigid sparrow]

generally yeah

[grand jungle]

wonder whats saints actual name

or its just saint

[slow berry]

Saint-14's name is Saint

Exo's name and number of resets and engraved into them and Ghosts tell them about it usually

[river creek]

Is it even possible (as far as we know) for ash and iron to be based around siva, or atleast have siva themed gear? excluding the wotm gear if that gets brought back

[frigid sparrow]

Anything's possible

[river creek]

I mean like in the lore, excluding stuff that gets written in

is there anything that could indicate that siva could come back in the plaguelands

[frigid sparrow]

Less so "come back" and more "persist"

We destroyed the replication chamber, killed aksis, so anything left would be left to the splicer devils

[river creek]

wdym? I'm not very well versed in my lore related to roi because i didn't play d1

[frigid sparrow]

And while the plaguelands are meant to be "cleaned up" throughout d2, which is why we never return, the season is based upon the idea of "reclaiming" Earth's territory

[river creek]

oh

[frigid sparrow]

So, if we're going back to the plaguelands, there's obviously gonna be a fight going on over there

[river creek]

that would make sense

[frigid sparrow]

Additionally, it could be cabal-based, since they're attempting to get new weaponry and could look towards the plaguelands for inert siva

[river creek]

What is inert siva?

[frigid sparrow]

Siva that isn't active

[river creek]

unprogrammed?

oh

alr

[frigid sparrow]

Pretty much yeah

"dead" Siva

Like a turned off computer

We get some in into the light to upgrade outbreak

[river creek]

the cabal correctly utilizing siva and turning it into weaponry actually sounds cool af

[frigid sparrow]

It's not like the fallen misused siva

Aksis is arguably the strongest fallen we've fought (aside from INSURRECTION PRIME)

[ember storm]

they literally were the worst ones who ever touched it

they gave it the programming directive of "consume enhance replicate"

that's the literal worst thing you can possibly tell nanotech to do

[river creek]

idk about that one

[dapper moss]

why does maya look like lakshmi again

[hard sigil]

Lakshmi was originally an Exo that was on the Exodus Indigo, got wiped by Maya's experiments with the veil, and then used by Maya to create a duplicate of her mind, and sent to Earth. Maya gained control of the echo, and used the radiolaria to construct that as her new physical body

pretty much Maya needed a body to act outside the vexnet, and just happened to use Lakshmi's

[dapper moss]

so lakshmi has always been maya

[hard sigil]

a copy that didn't retain memories

[dapper moss]

lakshmi-22 was just a banshee/clovis situation

or whatever her number was

[hard sigil]

ironic that it's happened to both of them

[dapper moss]

2

not 22

ah so thats why she's been reset once

[hard sigil]

I don't know whether the number counts the wiping of the original exomind

[dapper moss]

ada-1

she hasnt been reset

[hard sigil]

yeah

[dapper moss]

so lakshmi-2 means she's been wiped once

[hard sigil]

what I'm saying is that THE Lakshmi was probably never reset

and then was wiped by the veil so it doesn't count as a reset

[dapper moss]

the original one from the exodus

[hard sigil]

and then the Maya-Lakshmi was reset once to wipe her memory

or maybe the whole process of the mind replacement counts as a reset for the internal programming

[frigid sparrow]

Heartbreaking: Lakshmi-2 lied about being reset so people would feel bad for her 🥀

[slim elk]

The whole deal with Lakshmi does feel like a retcon

Prior lore indicated she was on Earth and watched the Devils torch London

Would mean Neomuna somehow missed a surviving city on Earth when they deployed to wipe out all traces of themselves

[ember storm]

hm?

wdym missed

neomuna has always been aware of us

the entire reason they deleted records of themselves was so warlords wouldnt find us

[slim elk]

Talking Lakshmis timeline

It's pretty heavily implied that Fallen arrived pretty quickly after the collapse

Going by the timeline courtesy of Cloud Striders, they would have dumped Lakshmi on earth at least a decade (probably more) after the collapse

Stargazers mission on paper was to try and reestablish contact with Earth (I grant the implications are that was a cover to dump Lakshmi and purge the files)

Was the only recorded instance of them going to Earth, so most likely was the time they dumped Lakshmi in a hellhole and ran off

[heady gyro]

So

Ikora huh?

[hard sigil]

what about her

[heady gyro]

Edge of Fate

Ive only seen clips, since im gonna but it later, far later

But man

[grand jungle]

so orin did hv a ghost efore the nine?

[slim girder]

Yes

[grand jungle]

so the deal of the nine she had to get rid of it?

[hard sigil]

she tried to send him back to the City, but to keep things under wraps, one of the Nine blinded a sensor, causing the Red War and allowing Ghaul to trap the traveller, presumably leading to his death

ironically the ghosts name was Gol

[grand jungle]

and to the travlers rules you cant get another ghost?

[hard sigil]

far as I know yes

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/invitation-of-the-nine-mystery-and-potential-visit-2

[grand jungle]

tho iirc she did say she wanted to lay down n relax or retire no?

[trim grotto]

A second Ghost has never happened before.

[hard sigil]

considering she's lightless, probably a good idea

[grand jungle]

hopefully we see more of her of like i the background

love a scottish titan XD

[ember storm]

well there was a body swap episode

[slim girder]

Ikora suggested she could help with retaking places like old Chicago.

There is also the possibility of her using darkness like Zavala does.

I'm sure Lodi would also like to tag along to see old Chicago

[river surge]

Didnt she taught him how to use stasis?

[slim girder]

Yes. Ikora helped Zavala learn it after he lost his ghost to the witness

[tropic sorrel]

Fuck the witness

All my homies like the traveler

[sick yew]

Baaased

[dim minnow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1394360654596669500/1395935747764125778/242CAC6C-53E5-4996-AB9C-AA48BA985D1F.gif?||=

[river surge]

Based

[tropic sorrel]

Oh no...

What are they doing to Lodi

[somber pendant]

been thinkin about this gif for an hour now

[silver bloom]

Someone explain this to me
If you need context, I can provide

[slow berry]

you get child of the old gods from using your class ability, not your grenade

in general void abilities are gravitational manipulation and is black-hole-adjacent in the sense of having strong gravitational pull but are not actual permanent black holes or anything

a guardian cant destroy planets and shit with it

not that there aren't a bunch of other people that can

[hollow drum]

guardians can make anything out of light as their super right the supers ingame are just simplifications for balance

[silver bloom]

This guy is also saying that they "have control over the blackholes," like wtf?
I said if it was an actual blackhole, it would be A LOT stronger, apparently a roughly pea-sized one is enough to destroy planet earth, so he responded with that.
I am unsure if they can actually do that.

[eager trout]

Not directly the Witness, but the civilization that makes it up. The Traveler didn't give them a purpose, so they tried to force one out of it, prompting it to leave, then they became the Witness to try and essentially destroy the universe, all because the Traveler didn't give them a purpose.

[silver bloom]

Could someone explain this as well

[ember storm]

i mean black hole isn't the right term

basically, light subclasses only exist as they do because guardians conform it to basic universal concepts that we already know of (elements of solar, arc, and void)

void itself is usually unseen aspects of reality like gravity and spacetime

there's a distinct difference between Void Light and normal Void you see in stuff like weapons

so essentially, you could say that abilities like vortex grenade and nova bomb are just guardians forming their light into recreations of actual concepts

as for Graviton Lance, that is a gun that has projectiles that essentially just create void singularities on impact

[river creek]

When a gaurdian dies, do they feel pain the same as any other human being?

Like if a guardian is degloved do they feel the same intensity of pain as any normal human would?

[dim minnow]

...probably

but depending what a Guardian has experienced, they may develop a tolerance to pain

[jagged badge]

There’s an element of desensitisation after a while of dying, yeah

[river creek]

oh

[jagged badge]

But they aren’t immune to pain

[river creek]

i didn't think about that

[jagged badge]

They just kinda stop caring

A Hidden agent casually cuts out their tongue because their Ghost can grow it back

[river creek]

that sounds grim

[river creek]

why?

[jagged badge]

Avoid potential contamination - they give an unknown object the taste test 😭

[river creek]

most normal guardian

[blazing wasp]

specifically a gun, no?

a gun that manifested into reality on its own

[jagged badge]

Yeah but that wasn’t really relevant to mention

[worldly river]

God some of the lore tabs make Levaszk kinda terrifying

Like imagine the crazed leader of your house capable of suddenly possessing the person next to you and you might not notice
He can speak in their voice, words that aren't theirs
He can possess you and talk to you through your own voice
He can even think your own thoughts for you, if you've indulged in the Shroom Ether

[dim minnow]

Bungie does also imply that he might not even be dead

I wonder if he's been able to become a being similar to the Nine where his mind orbits Kepler

due to the symbiosis he has with the dark matter fungus

[frigid sparrow]

He has dialogue in sieve, I'd argue it's a bit more than implication lol https://youtu.be/rQUeERUy1GE?si=q7NaKUx5RecwJldD

[dim minnow]

that is what I'm thinking, though some may argue that the Sieve was intended to be avalible before Campaign completion

[hard sigil]

I think it leans more into that the Eliksni we killed in the final mission wasn't actually the Archon

[frigid sparrow]

house exile be like "here comes our glorious archon!"

[slow berry]

Sieve takes place before The Message i'm p sure

since it's about filling up the haul to put in the singularity

[frigid sparrow]

why did they do this, are they stupid?

[river creek]

yes

[hard sigil]

no it's after

the point of the Sieve is to harvest dark matter from IIIs corpse

because drifter thinks that's why the Nine gave the Haul back after he threw it into III

[frigid sparrow]

see that's what my impression was

because it says we're collecting dark matter from the anomaly

[hard sigil]

also graviton through the ages is meant to be the introduction to the sieve and that's post campaign

[plain bronze]

in universe is fallen considered an inappropriate term

or even on the level of like a slur

actually that leads into another question do non humans face discrimination in the last city

also is there a concrete piece of lore that says the last city is in fact the last city on earth

like I know the edz probably has some random farmers but im wondering if theres a true city anywhere else

[dim minnow]

yeah sort of, though some have kinda owned the name

particularly the Eliksni we consider enemies

in general the name should not be used when referring to those like the House of Light

[plain bronze]

ah so is it more of a light/dark alignment thing

or just good/bad

[dim minnow]

there was a lot of this towards Eliksni back in Splicer when Ikora first allowed House Light into the City. Still a bit of it now though not nearly as much

[dim minnow]

it's a little more nuanced

the term "Fallen" refers to how far they, as a people, have fallen

like House Dusk picking at scraps like vultures, or other House Salvation wishing to go to war with us (at lest until they were forced to chill out in Revenant)

House Light have been making actual steps towards a better future in a positive way for once

[dim minnow]

there's actually a recent lore tab where an undercover Vanguard agent infiltrates an underground black market for weapons inside the city. The guy selling the weapons in particular dislikes our alien allies a lot

he even wants the lightless people in the city to rise up and kick the Lightbearers out

because he thinks all of our problems are because of the Traveler's presence

[sick yew]

Obligatory mention of the Season of Splicer faction incident

[dim minnow]

yeah, Splicer had a lot of this

[sick yew]

Investigator Maier my beloved

[dim minnow]

there's a lore entry that Bungie posted that hinted at the idea of secret underground cities, but that was a few years ago and we have had no further indication that those rumors are true

[slim girder]

I don't mean to jump the gun but could Lysander possibly be a candidate for that? I know he sent us our first skimmer but what if this is what he does now?

[dim minnow]

I do think that is a possibility

but we have no indication of it yet

[hard sigil]

Lysander was kicked out over an attempted coup, yeah?

[dim minnow]

we just know the Concordat is still out there

[dim minnow]

yeah

ironically it was New Monarchy who stopped him

[hard sigil]

lol

[slim girder]

Reason I say that is because we had never seen anything like a skimmer before. So sounds like they've got access to interesting tech. Possibly the kind of stuff you'd find in a black market.

[sick yew]

@dim minnow iirc there was a loretab hinting that the exiled factions were searching for the Distributory or whatever the worlhole to the Awoken world is called

You think thats ever gonna get picked up on again?

[dim minnow]

haven't heard of that

crazy if they're actually trying that, but doing so is likely impossible

[sick yew]

I couldnt tell you where I read/heard about it but yeah

Could also obviously have been Bungies ways of saying "we're never gonna see them again lol"

[slim girder]

I hope hideo gets sucked into a black hole.

My man arach jalaal though he's chill.

[frigid sparrow]

he did refuse to tell ikora about the coup though

[sick yew]

Bro was prob scared the FWC would kill him lmao

[frigid sparrow]

I'd be more concerned over what ikora and zavala would do if they saw he was harboring wanted coup members

Like surely there would be a guardian or two to spare to be his personal security detail

Go on, void hunters. Do something.

[sick yew]

to be fair Arach probably knew the FWC was experimenting with light suppression devices

[cobalt sonnet]

What does the Witness mean by “You are not the first to deliver us Light”?

[hard sigil]

don't know the context of this but their civilisation had the light themselves, and the various other civilizations they've destroyed after the traveller fled to them

[river surge]

Could be the fact that there were others with the Light besides us

And when The Witness went after the Traveler they encountered civilisations with light already

Could be that

[sick yew]

The Light itself is just a natural 'energy' around the Traveler

And its possible to use the light to some capacity even without a ghost
Back in the Golden Age Elsie Bray build what was essentially a paracausal EMP to try and fry every Vex system on the forge star beyond Europas Portal

But Lightbearers are the only ones who truly wield the light

[river surge]

Actually is there a difference between the light itself and the traveler light

Or is it the same thing?

Cause thats what me think

Since I started playing

[slow berry]

There isn't a difference in and of itself but also the traveler doesn't let you pull all that much light all things considered and aside from excision I don't think it doesn't really give you pure light either

[river surge]

Wdym pure light

Isnt the light that we have as powers pure light?

[slow berry]

Yes but there's a difference between void/solar/arc and the light from the traveler's super laser piss beam or from microcosm

[river surge]

Bleh

Too much information

[mild junco]

So, with us knowing Lodi is the one who sent the signal from vespers host, did we ever learn what the portal was? Was it a portal to kepler?

[frigid sparrow]

We dunno

[river surge]

Hm we dont know actually

However lodi was indeed mentioned

[slow berry]

if it's sort of the end of a telephone

do you reckon maybe it's how the nine made the call?

[river surge]

Imagine getting a call from the nine

[tropic sorrel]

Imagine getting 9 calls from the one

[shy remnant]

Been thinking that Phobos will make a return in Renegades and may or may not be turned into a giant weapon of sorrow to threaten the inner 4 IX members

[dim minnow]

ah yes, Grand Primus Tar'Kinn's newest weapon

[shy remnant]

That’s no moo- oh wait that is a moon

[hard sigil]

the Totally Not A Death Star in the Totally Not Star Wars expansion

[river surge]

Peak writing right here

Bungie dont miss this opportunity

[sick yew]

Phobos into a weapon of sorrow?

The hive literally have war moons

Why would they try to make some random space rock into a weapon of sorrow
For whatever

[river surge]

Cause it sounds fun and not only that it makes the story more exciting

Having to fight a weapon thats literally a moon

But no instead lets make a Cabal boss, kill it and thats it

Lame asf

[sick yew]

Phobos doesnt even count as a moon I think

Its just a slightly larger rock around Mars

[river surge]

It is

Its considered a moon

Not a perfect shape of a moon but it is a moon

[sick yew]

Just looked it up yea, shit looked tiny as hell in the Mars skybox ngl

[river surge]

I mean what do u expect

• its slightly smaller than our own moon

[sick yew]

Our moon is over 100 times of Phobos' size lol

'slightly'

[river surge]

Ok slighly is too much

I kinda exaggerated there

[sick yew]

[river surge]

But

But

[sick yew]

But I dont think there were ever even hive on Phobos
It was a Cabal outpost in D1 and that do be it

[river surge]

See

Even more perfect to transform it into a weapon

[sick yew]

[river surge]

They said they wanna keep it Destiny but Star Wars themed idea

So Phobos being a "death star" wouldnt be a bad idea tbh

But one thing is clear

A cabal isnt like a stormtrooper

These mfs dont miss AT ALL

[sick yew]

I think death star is already too far away from just 'Star Wars themed'

They want to go with that sort of vibe not just port over ideas present in Star Wars

[river surge]

They already did give a teaser about light sabers and blasters

They have already did Star Wars present ideas

[hard sigil]

I don't think there'll be a death star

[river surge]

Sadly

We are still sticking to Yirix

[fresh zephyr]

Isn’t Savathûn retired

Didn’t she say she’s done with us

[slim girder]

In a bad way as in "I'm done being nice and next time I'll end you" kind of way

[fresh zephyr]

Oh

[slim girder]

Since we killed the echo that had the memory of her brother.

Savathun and Xivu were still grieving that loss from the first time and now we just took him away a second time

[fresh zephyr]

I do miss Oryx so much

I wish we had more time

I’m such a nostalgia tool, but it was so good. I couldn’t bring myself to destroy the echo for like 10 minutes 😭

[slim girder]

He forced our hand unfortunately. Eris couldn't contain him and he was about to run off to fundament and possibly be in the possession of Savathun or Xivu. Had to make the call to destroy him.

[fresh zephyr]

I read this as she said it on YouTube

Insane

[wheat flower]

Did mithrax eramis and spider all know each other before BL?

[frigid sparrow]

mithrax and spider yeah

[wheat flower]

Ooh

[frigid sparrow]

adoptive brothers

[wheat flower]

Did eramis and variks know rach other?

[frigid sparrow]

yeah, they were both whirlwind survivors

[wheat flower]

Aah ic

[frigid sparrow]

"Variks recalls a dear friend from before the Whirlwind. Athrys. She was an artisan. Kind. Wise. Clever. Variks feels her absence even now." —Variks the Loyal

[wheat flower]

Was athrys erimis wife?

[frigid sparrow]

yeah

as for the mithrix/spider stuff, https://youtu.be/O9Mlvz5jAWI?t=204

[vast kiln]

Love Season of plunder

[next bobcat]

alr so how did maya get the vex inside III?

also, the appearance of III's interior looks identical to that of eternity, prophecy, and the rite of the nine areas

[slow berry]

that's the unknown space

desert perpetual takes place there

[next bobcat]

ah

so by entering III we enter unknown space?

[frigid sparrow]

the same way the archon intended

albeit without the whole "we're going inside the singularity so that we overflow it and nuke the universe" thing

[next bobcat]

sure ok

[slim girder]

Yes. The "singularity" is actually a black hole and since parts of III's body has been consumed by that black hole we followed the vex inside to make sure they couldn't gain anything from the remains of III's body.

[next bobcat]

i see

[ember storm]

As someone who hasn’t played EoF

The echo of navigation needed something special (Willbreaker) to kill it

Does a similar thing apply to Maya

[dim minnow]

I don't really think so, the Echo was being strained just by ||Maya expending a lot of her own power to kill III||

[broken zephyr]

I mean do all the Echoes function similarly, in terms of like physicality?

[dim minnow]

I wouldn't really count on it

Navigation seemed to be very independent

while Riis did want someone else to wield it, it couldn't just leave Fikrul on its own

Command seems to be kinda similar to Riis

[next bobcat]

so what's the deal with the Veil now

was it combined with the traveler physically or is it still just hanging around on neptune?

and is mercury still there?

[slim girder]

Still on neomuna as it's always been it was not combined with the traveler or anything.
As for mercury that's still a mystery as to its whereabouts.

[next bobcat]

yeah that was taken right

but we got mars & titan back

[slim girder]

By the witness yes. But we're not sure when or how it could come back yet.

[next bobcat]

i see

on a different note, are we pretty sure that the lord of every nothing is VI?

[sick yew]

Wasnt that Metallica?

No wait thats King Nothing

mb

[slim girder]

It is not. This being was willed into existence within the ascendant plane by the taken wanting something to guide them.

And the last time we heard about it, it is growing and will eventually be able to break into the physical world.
Something we now know a member of the nine can't do as a 4th dimensional being

[river surge]

Just askying

Before The Witness was on the drawing board, who was the first iteration for "king"?

[sleek matrix]

Not entirely

I dont think it is a member of the nine

[slim girder]

What do you mean?

You mean like who was the first true big bad of destiny or something?

[river surge]

Something like that

There was concept art

During shadowkeep with a representation of the queen and the king

Before The Witness was drafted in the story

[slim girder]

Do you think you'd be able to find this concept art? Might help me explain things better if I know the context. Because before destiny 1 even came out oryx was originally intended to be our final big bad in the story bungie had drafted up before it was restructured.

[river surge]

Hold on

[river surge]

This one

And this one, they both came out during shadowkeep

[slim girder]

Ahh I see now. Ok so I believe these were supposed to be "effigys" of the witness. Like what the other races such as the hive interpretated it to look like.

Because the hive have never actually seen the witness. Even Oryx who communed with the deep still never actually saw the witness and what it looked like.

[river surge]

Wait

Seriously

So races in general had no idea what The Witness looked like, not even the ones that The Witness had control

[slim girder]

No. The witness never truly revealed itself. Only thing people knew of its existence was through the black fleet.

[river surge]

Not even its disciples?

Seen it?

Cause theres no way Rhulk never actually saw The Witness or Calus

[slim girder]

The disciples might definitely have. No way to confirm that though
Rhulk never saw calus because calus became a disciple a while after we had killed rhulk who was sitting in the throne world.

[river surge]

Thats right

And Nezarec might actually seen it

And Rhulk

But in rest no one knew what The Witness looked like

Damn thats insane

[slim girder]

That's the whole point. It doesn't need to show itself so long as the journey to the final shape progresses. The disciples had their own versions of what the final shape actually was but still didn't even know the exact details of what the witness was actually going to do.

[river surge]

The Witness basically lied to everyone

Manipulation at peak

[slim girder]

That's it's whole thing. Twist what others want into a lie to serve it's own needs. Like if it can convince someone the final shape is "good" then that's one less obstacle in its way.

[river surge]

But outside The Final Shape, was there another reason to enact it, like revenge over The Traveler for abandoning and not letting them do whatever they want, or was it just a purposed thing THAT was meant to happend no matter what

[slim girder]

The witness wasn't after revenge. The precursors wanted purpose and the traveler possessed the means to give them that purpose. But as we saw the traveler fled when they attempted to interface it with the veil.
So they combined themselves into a single idea that would do anything to enact the final shape and acquire that purpose. Thus began the eons old chase after the traveler.

[river surge]

That civilisation DELUSIONAL on another level

[slim girder]

Not the whole civilisation. Just the ones who ended up being the "foundation" of the witness. The precursor civilisation was divided into groups all with differing views. "The penitent" was the group who eventually won out iirc and so everyone else willing or not became one as the witness..

[river surge]

The Penitent are the dudes that if they get kicked in a raid, they go irl

[slim girder]

@river surge if you'd like to hear more on the precursors, highly recommend this video. Shows lore that was part of the collectors edition for final shape which had texts from the precursors. https://youtu.be/tyQZb-4ryMA?feature=shared

[river surge]

Ngl, I kinda needed that since I really like The Witness as a villain to be explained

It feels unique and different like the rest tbh

[slim girder]

The witness is very deep character in Destiny. And since it's not actually a single character but a whole civilisation that leaves a ton to be explored with the many minds that make up the witness.

[river surge]

Mhm

[strong tendon]

Any chance we run into any new disciples of the witness?

I mean not new because the witness is dead but ones we’ve never seen before

[slow berry]

there's one that's missing

winterbite oomf

and also one that was a psion and may also have been winterbite oomf

we dont really know

at least one for sure tho

[eager trout]

When you realize gameplay Vex aren't even half of what the Vex can do in lore and yet they're still comsidered extremely powerful

Also, if the Vex can't predict or simulate us because of paracausality, why don't they just respond to us with excessive firepower?

[frigid sparrow]

because, if that fails, they don't know what they could do

the vex typically don't try the same thing twice. if it fails, it's not worth pursuing again

There are exceptions, such as the sol divisive continually trying to steal rivens eggs despite failure, or raising the black heart and the sol progeny once again, but that happened under the witness' influence

And we've also seen certain minds/bodies be repurposed, namely Brakion, and Protheon is a weird case

we'll also likely see maya take another crack at the singularity's dark matter

but it's just why we don't see extraordinarily powerful minds like Atheon, Panoptes, or Argos. they were destroyed, their purposes unfulfilled, it's best not to try and fail again

[dim minnow]

She's getting desperate, she ain't got much time left

She's been stealing Golden Age tech from Neomuna in an attempt to regain her footing

But there are signs she is weak

Even her own collective are turning against her

[frigid sparrow]

We have a final confrontation with Maya, she has a long speech about the Golden age, how she needs to see progress, how her actions have finally begun to weigh on her, haunting her nightmares... And then, peak fiction himself arrives.
"Did someone say nightmares?"
And then he Nezarecs all over the place and gets the echo of command

[river surge]

And the cycle continues The Witness is back, we again at saving the universe, Taniks makes his grand return in the process and we continue to fight forever

We bind The Nine so we can avoid extinction Lord of Every Nothing makes his move we fight the taken, The Winnower gets a new disciple following the sword logic and so on

[frigid sparrow]

We prepare to bind the nine, but as it nears it's conclusion, a pure spark of dark matter erupts into our reality. The Resonant Knife appears, and it speaks in a voice, acts in a way, has a will not of its own...
"OUR WEAPON HAS FALLEN FOR DECEPTION I WILL NOT BE BINDED"
Then we fight The Lord of Every Nothing (in Resonant Knife's body, then it turns into a taken chimera because uhh forsaken callback) then we defeat it and it explodes and now the nine are the seven and we have to do another 10 year saga

Actually wait "Resonant Knife, Weapon of Every Nothing" goes slightly hard I can't meme about this anymore it's time for delusional headcanon google docs again

[eager trout]

Her first mistake was not using the Echo of Command to command the Vex

[sleek matrix]

She cant do that

Not to control the entire collective

[slim girder]

She already does that. But just her choral vex that she has created.

The echo is powerful but it's not like she has absolute control over whoever she uses it on. It can be resisted.

[dim minnow]

Plus, she expended a lot of power in killing III

[slim girder]

Also it's more control of the body not the mind it seems. She can make beings do things but they are still able to retain their own thoughts.
Like when she tried to control us our bodies moved on her command but we were still aware of it.

It's like if I made someone lift their hand against their will but they were still telling me to stop making them do that

[slow berry]

what if the entire message from III is a gigaomega brain plan to revive III at the end of the entire saga and give it freedom and it's a dr strange i must hope that you will do what you need to do while im dead

[slim girder]

We already revived III once with the haul. I don't think we could do it again. Not to mention it's body is being sucked into the singularity and also how would we get them back to the 4th dimension? The nine can't exist in our dimension as Lodi says

[slow berry]

yeah but what if there is

[sleek matrix]

3 is meant to die

Bringing it back would dismiss the moment

[frigid sparrow]

One of the first things we see from the echo of command doing it's thing is saint being forced to have a crisis about his identity so he can find solace in a "benevolent conductor"

He's very much in an entranced state whilst under the echo's command

[slim girder]

Because saint is an exo. A being with radiolaria as a main component of their brain, something maya is able to manipulate pretty much to whatever she decides. Even failsafe mentions this when talking about what happened after we found saint.

[eager trout]

I meant the ones she created or at least a few others

[eager trout]

I meant she should have just controlled them instead of giving them free will

[eager trout]

What did the haul do?

[slow berry]

it gave III enough juice to drop his las tweet after getting banned by elon sundaresh

[sick yew]

Very nice way of putting it

[slim girder]

We gave III an edible.

[floral flicker]

Open thread: Idea for a finally good introductory mission/quest

For new entry players it would be cool if there was a mini-campaign totally detached from the main storyline. One of the the charms of vanilla D1 was waking up in the middle of nowhere and discover the new world and faction as you went along.
Now imagine this:
Kinderguardian wakes up in the middle of nowhere, totally lost, but is found by loner titan/warlock/hunter. Each version could have their own little quirks that transmit the vibe of each subclass.
Now, the function of these characters wold be to accompany the new player and train them bootcamp style on every minutia of basic gameplay: movement, shooting, ammo, abilities, upgrades, missions, contracts, quests.
Lore-wise they could explain this mini-journey as they did in the 1st mission of d1: you have no ship, you are stranded, and for some reason the other more grizzled guardian is too and is "forced" to show you the ropes and explains you the storyline to the present through cutscenes/dialogue, etc.
You could also introduce pvp with a mission that pairs up with other guardians and say: "these shmucks have bet us that they'll give us a ride if we fight them crucible style" ore something like that
Bungo could also tie this mini campaigns to class-exclusive equipment (armor, weapons, etc) that makes new players more invested in their class and character.
ONLY AFTER completing this mini quest/campaign would the new player be "trown" into the open game, and even with that I would leave the mentor npc in scattered missions, kinda like Shaw Han but with more range.
And that was my ted talk

[sick yew]

I mean the entry 'campaign' is sorta that? At least to some capacity
Wake up, dont know shit, ghost tells you what you are, meet shaw, mini tutorial, bounce

Your idea is neat but a bit very wishful thinking in terms of getting implemented

[floral flicker]

I know, but I think there are many mechanics and aspects of core gameplay and story that get lost. Im asuming you are also a veteran player, and I think it's astonishing how many things we take for granted that new players find daunting. Hell, I can find myself a bit lost too after skipping a season or 2. And I've been playing on and off since 2014

[sick yew]

Hard to think it used to be even worse arguably
Red War started you at the Last City under siege, short button prompts and that was it in terms of gameplay related stuff

[floral flicker]

I know, that's what I meant with the detached storyline. A video I was watching before pointed this out, but a year ago you would complete the new light quest and one of the first characters to greet you in the tower is Amanda Hollyday... who is dead....

It's all so chaotic

[sick yew]

The initial introduction is detached from the main story tho

[floral flicker]

all the times I've tried to get new friends to give it a try I've spent too much time trying to explain the different dlcs and how they relate and which ones to get and where in the plot are we rn 😭

[sick yew]

Thats what happens if you have a game thats been active for over 10 years atp

[floral flicker]

Would have to play it again, but I felt it was pretty bere bones tbh

[sick yew]

It absolutely is

But there really is no way around that unless Bungie creates a proper new player campaign which they just dont have the resources to

[floral flicker]

Maybe if that CEO sells one of his cars they could manage

[sick yew]

One could only dream

[floral flicker]

Fr who asked them to start developing 10 games at once?

Just fix THE game

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-swing-all-alone-emote-short-gif-1518585891487656349

[sick yew]

?

What

[floral flicker]

You didnt know? they invested in a bunch of new projects the past years

[sick yew]

Not 10

Lol

[floral flicker]

Especially since they parted from Activision

[floral flicker]

Hyperbole, but you get the jist

[sick yew]

Yeah, Activision has been pulling people onto other projects, not Bungie doing so

Different shit
And also saying that moving devs from one project to another doesnt mean that a specific aspect of the game would have been fixed otherwise

If they need a group of environment designers on some Activision project that aint gonna make crucible balancing any different

[floral flicker]

They kept doing that after parting ways, I think it's incompetence on Bungies direction

[floral flicker]

I disagree

There is a reason Sony is threatening with farther absorbing bungie

[sick yew]

Thats not an opinion thats a fact
Devs arent just magical makeshift tools, they are specialized for certain things

[floral flicker]

But you really think pulling resources to do other things doesnt affect Destiny?

[sick yew]

That is not what I said

[floral flicker]

Then it was a misunderstanding

[sick yew]

Bungie obviously still has the resources to continue adding content to the game in all aspects
It is simply not lucrative for them to make a big new light campaign because apart from the fact that 90% of the playerbase wouldnt play it, a good portion of those would also dislike it because it'd teach the new players stuff in a way they dont agree with and because Bungie is investing time and money into something that doesnt benefit them

The fact that various devs have been moved around between projects doesnt really impact the content pipeline because certain devs are also being moved to Destiny
Its just how it works in the bigger companies

[floral flicker]

And laying off 17% of staff doesnt affect output either?

[sick yew]

Depends which 17% it was

[floral flicker]

OH ffs

[sick yew]

Back to my previous example, laying off the music team doesnt make the crucible any different

[slim girder]

They aren't "threatening" they ARE absorbing bungie. Though gaming journalism loves to use buzz words to make people within companies sound like monsters. Even though no confirmation can actually be made.

[sick yew]

And no im not saying Bungie leadership are without blame here, theyre the reason the company is going to shit to begin with
But a 'they should just fix thing' argument is always meh imo

[slim girder]

It's never that simple

[sick yew]

Precisely

[slim girder]

JUST doing something goes through many phases before being put into the live game

[floral flicker]

Im not saying making an entry level campaign would fix all problems, just to clarify

[sick yew]

Buffing dunemarchers to work with ranged meele's would instantly fix the game and carry it to new glory

PLEASE BUNGIE

[slim girder]

PLEASE BUNGIE
Give thorn intrinsic anti barrier

[sick yew]

Anyway lets get back to game lore
Let us discuss the current Glimmer market

[floral flicker]

I would actually much prefer it if they improve the existing content and new expansions AND THEN do a decent fleshed out intro campaign to draw in new players. At this point we are a bunch of old farts surviving through an abusive relationship with this game

[floral flicker]

indeed

Buff hunters, in general

in every aspect

[slim girder]

Glimmer is programmable matter so in my canon if I want a ship I have to supply the volume of glimmer to be programmed into a ship

[floral flicker]

3 billion glimmer in aid aid to Clovis Bray

[floral flicker]

I think the question of glimmer is how much energy you need to convert what volume. Maybe it would only be worth it for smaller things, unless you were a space quintilionaire

[slim girder]

I'm going to ask Ana bray to help me send a file labeled "Free godhood" containing an endless loop of the lizard meme to Clovis Brays AI.

https://tenor.com/view/elio-lizard-button-gif-10528652411096742370

[floral flicker]

ok but if in the recent campaign we got a train from the 60's, could we recieve shitpost from the 2010's?

[slim girder]

I wish we got more lore on the average going ons in the city. Like from shopkeepers, city security, what kids of the last city like to do, pastimes, etc