📚lore-discussion

[fringe wasp]

maya and chioma talk about the conductor there

[dim minnow]

different Maya

[river creek]

i believe its a different version of maya

a simulation

or different reality

[hard sigil]

the Chioma and Maya we hear throughout the raid is the Chioma of the 50th copy of the team, and the Maya of the 87th copy of the team

whilst the conductor is the original Maya

[trim grotto]

Maya Sundaresh and her team, back in the Golden Age, were simulated 227 times by a Vex unit, before those copies were "rescued" and released into the Vex network. There are many versions of the Ishtar team, Maya and Chioma included. The Conductor was a Maya Sundaresh that ended up with the Echo - the original Maya who entered the Vex network via the Veil, after it drove her a bit batty.
The other Mayas in the network are rather less insane, typically.

TL;DR
Not a different personality, per se, but a different version of Maya from a different point in life.

[fringe wasp]

ah

[jade granite]

I wonder if the NINE HAvE 3d shadows

Since the are 4d entities they should have 3d shadows

Like us since when are 3d entities we have 2d shadows

[hard sigil]

I'd say thats what the dark matter is

invisible to us, but measurable in 3d space

like that short film where the sphere interacts with the 2d shapes but they can only perceive it as a circle that grows and shrinks in size as it moves along the z axis

[ember storm]

they can be killed by kirby

[orchid folio]

I've come to the realisation that I want the game to do away with bipedal enemies

Make them more alien

[orchid folio]

I really like the designs of the aliens in Returnal

[slim girder]

We just got lore about another mystery beast on kepler that killed an aionian explorer.

There are actually a fair few animalistic beings in destiny. Unfortunately I don't think bungie aside from riven has really given us an opportunity to interact with any of these supposed predators or dangerous creatures

[orchid folio]

that's a shame.

I guess maybe they don't have animation rigs they can use

But it's been 11 years. Everything we fight stands on two legs

Except maybe vex hydras

[slim girder]

We do have war beasts.
Also bungie since the grim have started leaning into more aerial combatants.

[hard sigil]

imps aren't bipedal either

[orchid folio]

We need more alien-looking aliens is what I'm trying to say

Get some tentacle Bois in there

[lofty badge]

any Thories on what other enemy faction besides the new cabal faction we will fight in Renegades?

[slim girder]

Prolly eliksni. If the weapons of sorrow are involved I also want to say the hive could have some part in it.

[lofty badge]

true, + we did just get a patrol zone with fallen

tho they have given us three patrol zones in a row where fallen can spawn

[river surge]

Dread

If the shadow legion is part of renegades then dread will 100% be present there too

[slim girder]

We don't exactly know if it's shadow legion. All we know is that some underground empire is making weapons apparently with "outside help" This is according to the datapads we've been finding

[lofty badge]

yeah

[river surge]

Uh

Well

[lofty badge]

i think it will a new Cabal faction made up of former red legion, imperial deserters and former Shadow legion

[river surge]

I wont say anything cause it might be a leak or a spoiler

[lofty badge]

then just spoiler it?

[river surge]

Nah I wont

[lofty badge]

||Like this||

[slim girder]

No don't

[lofty badge]

ok

[blazing wasp]

If it's a leak it won't matter

[lofty badge]

fair

[river surge]

I wont spoil it anyways

[slim girder]

No leaks allowed here

[river surge]

I will just let it slide we have 1 month till reveal

[blazing wasp]

A Bungie supported destiny discord obviously wants to avoid leaks.

[river surge]

Maybe a bit more but soon

So I wont say anything

[orchid folio]

ALIENS

I dont just want to see new enemies, I want to see wild and strange new things the universe has to offer

[sick yew]

As cool as that sorta stuff is, Destiny doesnt really work well with abstract enemies like that

Wyverns is arguably the furthest theyve pushed enemy design and they are annoying as hell to fight

[slim girder]

Returnals enemies are much more eldritch horrors.

[orchid folio]

I mean, we fought the Witness in its final form

it was eldrich af

[sick yew]

Thats a raid boss

[slim girder]

That's the being capable of ending the universe

[sick yew]

Naturally they can go more wild with raid boss designs cause they are a lot more limited in how you fight them

[orchid folio]

guardians are probably some of the most mobile characters out there when it comes to FPS

drop the previous gen consoles and go nuts imo

[sick yew]

I know this is a very big stretch but I find it funny how you could make the connection that this perk has the Nine helping you

[slim girder]

Even the nine gotta step in and fix your shitty aim.

[sick yew]

Exactly

[river surge]

CHICKEN

[sick yew]

I never liked that nickname

[river surge]

I mean they are chickens

ugly ahh creatures

the only type of vex I swear I could just erase from the timeline

[orchid folio]

I will take a GIANT SCREEB

[hard sigil]

I see why they gatekept declassification that's some neat stuff

the DEO was responsible for Ares One, which makes sense considering they were the first people to see the traveller coming

[slim girder]

Not to mention we own the weapon Lodi says that Nella was working on.

[hard sigil]

the graviton lance blueprint in her office makes much more sense now

[slow berry]

Reread epochs and orbits with more knowledge and less quickly bc i was doing the campaign at the time this is peak lore book

[river creek]

Given enough time, could SIVA reverse Vex assimilation?

[languid hazel]

nah, It'd vex assimilate the SIVA

[river creek]

o

[languid hazel]

i reckon at least

[slim girder]

As cool as Siva is vex can assimilate basically anything.

Don't touch the vex milk

[blazing wasp]

Siva could assimilate the brass probably

But the vex milk?

No way

[river creek]

how have we not been assimilated by it?

we go in it a lot

[slim girder]

Haven't actually been IN it.

It's a corrosive substance so standing in definitely hurts but we are protected.

[river creek]

You've never seen an lfg do a vex exotic mission

lots of corpses in it at least

[slow berry]

ghost rezzes you im p sure

i dont think guardians with ghosts have been souped up

[ember storm]

That’s purely gameplay mechanics

Being submerged in radiolaria in any capacity would begin to assimilate you

Maybe if you amputated before getting a full rez you’d be fine, but even just momentary contact will afflict you and have it spread

Ghosts can’t even do anything about internal bleeding, idk what they’d be able to do about your cells being transformed on a fundamental level

Guardians do have the luxury of wearing airtight armor but that wouldn’t make you invincible to it, as it can just eat through materials

[dim minnow]

I do think that our Light gives us a greater degree of resistance to the Vex

[slow berry]

the vex radiolaria microbe when my blood cells make their own fate and keep juking them:

[river creek]

couldn't you just completely and utterly destroy yourself?

like

fly into the sun

with your ghost on standby

[ember storm]

I mean it would depend

You can be completely disintegrated and your ghost can just bring you back

Dying from a fall will also have you come back from the place you jumped

It just has to do with what the light can actually do

It can’t “fix” what isn’t broken so you can’t just heal away vex assimilation

[river creek]

but if ur destroyed

actuall

y

i mean

[ember storm]

Yeah I just mentioned disintegration

That happens to us in the LF cutscene when we’re training with strand

Our body is completely removed from existence and ghost just pops us back

[river creek]

i think it just brings u back bcuz if u get injured and jump off a cliff, u get revived at full health, and not the health u were at when u died

[dim minnow]

Ghosts can probably heal internal bleeding, but it likely depends on the severity of the injury

[sacred cedar]

Which are more powerful, the nine or the winnower/gardener?

[blazing wasp]

not really beings we can properly "powerscale"

[sacred cedar]

True

[blazing wasp]

theyre not strong through conventional means

we have nothing to really establish anything close to a "limit"

we can presume that the hypothetical gods of creation of the universe are "the strongest" but we also have zero backing to that

[sick yew]

Apart from Uke's point its important to note that Gardener and Winnower are still largely shrouded in utter mystery

If you take Unveiling at face value (you probably shouldnt) theyre undoubtedly the strongest beings in the universe

[indigo arrow]

Could Eris... technically just resurrect her old fireteam as hive in her throne world?

[ember storm]

That’s not remotely close to how it works, no

You are tied to your own throne world, nobody else can come back through it

[frigid sparrow]

Also the fact that Omar is a fucking bug rn

Toland is, uh, something special

And the others are just deader than dead

Plus even if that was for some reason how throne world's worked (which they don't work like that) bungie wouldn't do it since it'd mean having Toland as a character

[ember storm]

Toland is technically already alive in his throne “world”

But it’s more like a gacha ball

[frigid sparrow]

Wait a minute

THIS MOTHERFUCKER IS VOICED BY THE SAME GUY WHO DID FERGUS FROM WOLFENSTEIN??

See, this is why Toland is peak fiction

Wait he and devrim share the same va??? Bungie come on there is NO reason not to have him show up

Will you be prepared? Or will you be... Boring?

he and Orin have such fun speech quirks I love listening to their dialogue

[clear musk]

just saw the truth cutscene in eof and man that is crazy

[river creek]

Who/what was Fikrul's echo a memory of?

[dim minnow]

the Eliksni who suffered from the Whirlwind

might not be anyone in particular

[river creek]

o

[dim minnow]

if it was a specific person, we might have gotten some implications by now

[river creek]

it was eramis

[dim minnow]

Eramis is the one wielding the Echo

[river creek]

i thought it was mithrax

[river creek]

wait r we deadass i didn't finish rev

[slow berry]

my man

[river creek]

idk what happened with the echo

[slow berry]

we killed fikrul and the echo picked eramis

[river creek]

😭

[slow berry]

eramis used it to cleanse misraaks of nezarec's influence

[river creek]

i should've finished rev

[slow berry]

eramis then left with the echo and the rest of her house to create a new Riis

[slow berry]

its entirely possible it was chelchis but i dont think we have a hard confirmation

[frigid sparrow]

Most likely is Chelchis

[river creek]

wait the kf raid weapons r about ppl

[slow berry]

Yes

[river creek]

i thought it would be on the damn weapon

[slow berry]

its d1 guns

so no

[river creek]

o

[slow berry]

anyway lore is on everything

you gotta have the knowledge to catch it tho

[river creek]

even boondoggle?

[slow berry]

cathedrals everywhere for those with the eyes to see

[slow berry]

It continues the tex mechanica custom of having weapons with very high version counts (mk 55) as they're working and iterating upon pre-golden age designs and inspirations

[river creek]

😭

no fucking way

[frigid sparrow]

Variks notes that the echo sang a whirlwind dirge, a "seeking song for the lost"
In The Garden-Way: Return, there is a direct quote of "Not sad," Chelchis said. "A song for star-sailors headed out into the dark between worlds."
Chelchis is notable for standing against Oryx herself, and since the echoes aren't just memories of the witness, she could've been seen as an Eliksni of note for the darkness to remember

it's like 99% Chelchis and the only thing that goes against it is no official name for who's in the echo or what it's official name is (Since Command and Navigation were more officially titled)

[slow berry]

I 100% agree

[frigid sparrow]

and I WANT it to be Chelchis because she's awesome

[slow berry]

I just don't wanna be that guy saying its X but its something else bc they never explicitly said it

[river creek]

why is chelchis awesome

[slow berry]

But yeah chelchis bangs

my humble kell of stone

[frigid sparrow]

she personally stood against oryx to buy time for the eliksni to get the fuck out of riis

[river creek]

what was her doom?

[slow berry]

Oryx

[river creek]

was she taken

[frigid sparrow]

She was a sole eliksni who stood against a hive god

[slow berry]

We don't know explicitly but like

[river creek]

why did oryx pay atention to her for a relevant amount of time? was she a kell?

[slow berry]

Kell of the House of Stone

And also Oryx is ultimately noble like that

[river creek]

o i thought that was a joke because she was immovable

[slow berry]

If you were to have called him out explicitly he would not have turned down an invitatiion

[frigid sparrow]

"All is silent. Nothing answers me. The hunger comes."

[slow berry]

This is as she calls out to the Traveler

Her last words famously being Where is the Great Machine?

[frigid sparrow]

"Eliksni songs still tell of Chelchis, Kell of Stone, who stood before the Maw."

With Oryx being referred to as "the Maw," it makes sense for her to refer to him as "The hunger"

like ultimately power differentials mean she probably got squashed like a bug, but there is also the theory that the Herald of Finality is the taken Chelchis

unless she was like, super hyped up on a shit ton of ether since their society should've had surplus amounts even during the moments of its destruction

but yeah eliksni lore rocks

I LOVE MITHRAX!! I LOVE FIKRUL!! I LOVE SPIDER!! I LOVE ERAMIS!! I LOVE CHELCHIS!!

[river creek]

whats cool about spider

[frigid sparrow]

pirate

:3

and mob boss

well. all the eliksni are pirates

[river creek]

also

why would having more ether allow a kell to stand up to oryx

[frigid sparrow]

more ether=bigger eliksni

the eliksni hierarchy dictates ether usage (and vice versa)

kells get the most ether, which contributes to their size

[river creek]

is there a cap

like a point where more ether just means more ether

[frigid sparrow]

probably? I'd imagine one could only get so large before "overdosing" so to speak

[river creek]

also

why is spider fat

in the lore

[frigid sparrow]

he always was

[trim grotto]

Eliksni do eat food, too.

Not just Ether.

[river creek]

o

is t

[frigid sparrow]

like not even as a joke he was just a bigger baby

[river creek]

is ether their water equivalent

[frigid sparrow]

we see it in the plunder cutscenes he's notably a bit heftier

[trim grotto]

Sort of. Kind of like water and oxygen and a growth hormone all in one.

[frigid sparrow]

but his more crime-boss like mentality in the modern day also contributes to it

[river creek]

so super water

[frigid sparrow]

spider takes most for himself and mostly deprives his own crew

[river creek]

is that why his forces look like the drug addicts of eliksni?

[frigid sparrow]

no, but it's why we're not seeing anything above vandals

[river creek]

o

do the dregs just starve?

[frigid sparrow]

their armor is just.. unique

[frigid sparrow]

kind of, yeah!

they get the bare minimum

[river creek]

thats awesome!

[frigid sparrow]

they get enough to survive, if even that

[frigid sparrow]

plus, I'm a sucker for iconography, and fallen houses are absolutely lovely in that regard

gotta love my insignia and logos

[river creek]

wuts the dark green one

[frigid sparrow]

judgment, variks' house

[river creek]

o

i thought the purple 1 was just fallen

[frigid sparrow]

purple is house Dusk

it's a more.. informal arrangement

[river creek]

why is that everywhere?

arent they dead

[frigid sparrow]

we basically murdered the fuck out of the destiny 1 houses

so in d2 they banded together as house dusk as a survival tactic

[river creek]

wuts the top right 1

doesn't look familiar at all

[frigid sparrow]

winter

made their stake on venus

[dim minnow]

we killed their Kell which allowed Skolas to take over

but then we knocked him off too so Winter was left without a leader until they joined Dusk

[frigid sparrow]

we killed their kell
do you have any idea how little this narrows the houses down?

[strong tendon]

We really just massacred everyone in d1 huh

[frigid sparrow]

I mean that is the entire point of house dusk

we systematically killed each and every kell, brought down each house

they couldn't afford their petty squabbles anymore

[dim minnow]

Skolas and Draksis were the only actual Kells we killed personally

Solkis was killed by Saint-14 after Twilight Gap

[strong tendon]

Didn’t the vex also like “come together” in a way as the sol collective because of guardians?

[dim minnow]

Craask was docked and left to die by Uldren and Fikrul not too long before Forsaken

[dim minnow]

yeah, the Vex subcollectives in Sol grouped up into the Sol Collective

excluding the Sol Divisive

there was an unnamed Kell who was killed by Taniks (believed to be House Scar)

[strong tendon]

Is Eramis still considered a kell? Or is she just doing her own thing now with the echo?

[dim minnow]

to clarify
Skolas - Wolves
Draksis - Winter
Solkis - Devils
Craask - Kings

[dim minnow]

ehhh

a good portion of her House went to the City

[strong tendon]

I assume house salvation is mostly done now apart from a few stragglers?

I mean they have house of exile to move forward with I guess

[dim minnow]

seems like it

there's little to no way Bungie is going to bring them back as an antagonistic force unless some REAL bullshit happens

[strong tendon]

And levaszk is still alive right? In some sort of way?

[dim minnow]

I think that's the implication

...

[strong tendon]

So exile still have leadership. Definitely will be the fallen antagonists going forward

[dim minnow]

you know, the way I see it, he is able to possess any Eliksni so long as they ingested the Dark Matter-infused Ether

what if he tricks a non-Exile into ingesting that Ether

[strong tendon]

Knowing fallen though, there’s gotta be a loyal follower who would allow him to use their body permanently

[strong tendon]

Interesting. Something powerful would be cool

[dim minnow]

he doesn't even need permission

unless being without his real body weakened him

I wonder how this would go with Scorn

[frigid sparrow]

"you're telling me these are eliksni who've tampered with darkness powers while having been controled by a hive mind brought on by a paracausal fungus?"

[strong tendon]

Maybe ash and iron will have him do some funky stuff in the plague lands

Dark matter infused siva

[dim minnow]

Dark Matter =/= Darkness

[frigid sparrow]

yeah but it gives powers affiliated with the darkness so close enough

I don't see those dregs in the edz wielding strand cannons

[strong tendon]

It’s very similar to egregore isn’t it? The dark matter fungus.

Weird

[frigid sparrow]

in terms of the hive-mind elements to it yeah

[dim minnow]

it is possible he can only control one person at a time

[frigid sparrow]

he could always impose certain actions on a large group whilst only being able to speak through one

[hard sigil]

they got turned into wrathborn by Xivu, scorn by the witness, or defected when Eramis stopped supporting the witness iirc

[jade granite]

No i wonder if the "Tenno" from Warframe counts as Paracasual

[hard sigil]

don't know enough about Warframe lore to say for certain but I doubt it

maybe certain frames

[strong tendon]

I’d say so. They fuck with time travel paradox shit so.

[hard sigil]

not necessarily paracausal

unless you're talking about like grandfather paradoxes

[strong tendon]

They cannot die. They break the laws of nature.

The world of warframe is obviously different though as their view on the timeline is “eternalism”

Which essentially means all possible pasts and futures are just as real as the current present and can be accessed

[ember storm]

That’s just how vex work innit

[strong tendon]

Yeah sorta

Holy shit wait. The Tenno also originated from outside space and time (the void). The Tenno are just vex fr

Without the mass conversion

[slim girder]

Dualism is a big thing in Warframe.
Mind and body
Our world and the void.
Good and evil.
The Ying Yang philosophy.

[trim grotto]

Bill and Ben

The Flower Pot Men

[slim girder]

Macaroni and cheese

[strong tendon]

Imagine not playing since like destiny 1 and you see what looks like lakshmi 2 kill an eldritch space god

[slim girder]

Times have changed. A LOT.

Almost nothing from D1 exists anymore save for the characters and even they've changed a ton

[low gyro]

Apples and oranges...?

[elfin crag]

Its a head cannon that since they are currently being voiced by the same person that Sgt Foley from the og cod mw2 and commander zavalla are the same person

[trim grotto]

As an Awoken, there's no scenario where he could be from before the Golden Age. Sorry, haha

[elfin crag]

WELL

TECHNICALLY

GOOD SIR

If i remember correctly the traveler was first contacted in 2014, mw2 take place in like 08

2014 is when the golden age starts

Life spans TRIPLED and with some people even more

Realistically there is a very slim chance they are the same person

Ofc your prolly right but there's a chance and thats all I need

[trim grotto]

That would also suggest he was, at the slimmest end of possibility, a geriatric colonist

"I'm ready to colonise this new world!" 🧓

[river surge]

Just a sad question, will Zavala fully retire from Vanguard in the future?

[sick yew]

Unknown but imo unlikely

But since the seasonal model is rather different now there wont be as much chance for him to be around

[river surge]

I hope he will never retire, Destiny without Zavala is like a cake without sugar

[sick yew]

I personally hope they bring him back to the narrative soon cause Keith David kinda killed it in FS

[trim grotto]

For the record, Zavala, though now mortal, is still Awoken - and they're incredibly long lived. Just look at how young Mara and Uldren Sov appear.

If he so desires, he can hold that position for decades to come.

[river surge]

Just dont send him in a suicide mission

[sick yew]

He was already barely out in the field even while he was a lightbearer

So I doubt thats gonna happen lmao

But its not like he'd be defenseless either
Hes got all his combat experience and also Stasis

[river surge]

He has Caiatl near him so he should be fine

[sick yew]

Theyre probably knitting together right this moment

[slim girder]

Is he getting old now? yes. He even mentions this in a loretab a while ago. But he's still capable of offering centuries of battlefield wisdom and and with the power of stasis is still capable of combat as he did in the final fight of the witness.

[river surge]

Can he learn strand too?

[sick yew]

Theoretically

But learning Strand is a lot harder and dangerous especially for lightless

[river surge]

Canonically a Zavala with strand would be OP

[slim girder]

We tried learning it and even had a moment where it disintegrated us. Zavala doesn't have the luxury of a ghost anymore so I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up just sticking with stasis

[river surge]

Based on what he have seen with Strand I think Strand is the hardest for a guardian to learn imo

It took us an entire expansion to literally manifest and control it

[slow berry]

meanwhile osiris was just raw doing strand for the firstest ever time just for free

[river surge]

Osiris is just built different

[dim minnow]

not really, he was letting us have a go before doing it himself

[river surge]

Bro went lightless to fight the whole shadow legion

[frigid sparrow]

God damn drifter's ghost fucking SUCKS

[dim minnow]

to be fair, she had to deal with being Drifter's Ghost

he legit refused to listen to her from the start

[river surge]

Imagine ur ghost refusing to revive u

[hard sigil]

cough cough Fynch

[sick yew]

I mean its not like youd ever know if your ghost decided to never revive you again

[river surge]

Fynch is a chad for not reviving that stupid knight

[river surge]

Correct

[sick yew]

Now that we're on the topic of Hive Lightbearers

We need more Luzaku

[river surge]

Valid

We need a Knight that could help us

[sick yew]

I still think its cute as hell that she spawns us rifts during the Sector boss where she resides

Incase you didnt know btw, she actually has a shit ton of dialogue with a lot of characters if you just rerun the sector

[river surge]

Can we take her to the Vanguard tho?

Or would the Vanguard accept her?

[sick yew]

She doesnt want to leave the pale heart yet it seems

But I think the Vanguard would be fine with her around

[river surge]

She loves the vanilla smell

[sick yew]

Hell they were fine with Variks coming in to speak to Zavala all the way back in the pre Forsaken days

[river surge]

That one Zavala meme with Caiatil

[sick yew]

Caiatl is a bit of a different story imo

And until like Risen Zavala was not convinced in the slightest

[river surge]

At first she was wierd but then she became good

I like her now

[sick yew]

Caiatl is a great character

[river surge]

Who do u think is stronger

Osiris or Saint

[sick yew]

Rn? Saint lmfao

Osiris is Lightless

[river surge]

I wanted to point out an Osiris with light

[hard sigil]

prime it's Osiris

[sick yew]

Prime its debatable

Theyre both ballers

Powerscaling guardians against each other is always rough
Hell powerscaling in Destiny as a whole is rough

[river surge]

I mean they are both equally brave

I think Osiris is more brave

Since he always throws himself into mess

[sick yew]

They are both masters of the light in their own rights

[sick yew]

You forget that Saint has went on multiple solo campaigns against the Eliksni and Vex

[river surge]

Ohh yeah

[sick yew]

Especially against the Vex they had to literally create a mind that studied the wavelengths of his light to suppress it cause he was just slaughtering the infinite forrest

[river surge]

Saint was so respected by the vex

[sick yew]

Yeah

We have no idea how many thousands or more Vex he slaughtered in there

And the Eliksni came up with a bedtime story because he just wouldnt stop killing every Eliksni he came across

This obviously does not undermine that Osiris is one of the greatest masters of the light there ever was but I dont think you can conclude either of which would win

Unstoppable Force vs Immovable Object type shit

[river surge]

What about prime Zavala and prime Ikora

[sick yew]

My money would be on Ikora tho Zavala possibly has an edge in terms of tactics?

[river surge]

Zavala is pretty tactic yeah

But I dont think he has a chance against Ikora tbh

[sick yew]

Hard to tell like the other cases

[river surge]

Ikora imo seems like she always got something up her sleeve

[sick yew]

The thing in question being a nova bomb

Cause she cheats

Smh

[river surge]

Her trump card

Most likely

[sick yew]

She has beat Shaxx that much we know and hes also definitely up there

[river surge]

The thing about Zavala is that the story dosent tell us great achievements about him

Or feats in general

For Ikora u have many statements and feats

Tho

Yeah powerscaling in Destiny is rough

[sick yew]

Zavala isnt as much of a fighter yeah tho he was present at many major battles like Six Fronts or Twilight Gap

[river surge]

But since he is a titan he pretty much relies on defense

Tho

I dont think he can match Ikora in speed, she is literally a warlock

[sick yew]

Thats not really correct

[river surge]

Why

[sick yew]

Cause Titans pack a very serious punch, quite literally

What we lack if anything is range

[river surge]

Thats exactly what I meant about Ikoras speed

How can u land that punch if ur not fast enough to hit it

[sick yew]

Thundercrash :)

[cobalt sonnet]

was the nine behind the withness arrival?

[sick yew]

No

the Nine only operate within Sol

And the Witness came from god knows where in the Galaxy but certainly nowhere close to us

Plus the Nine likely wouldnt stand much of a chance against the Witness

Whats more likely is that they were playing a part in our victory however
If they knew the Witness was coming eventually (which i believe is likely) then stuff like the Prophecy dungeon make sense as them trying to show us using the Darkness is also possible

[river surge]

Oh no 😭

[river surge]

What Alex said

[river surge]

Actually I think they pretty much prepared us in order to use darkness against darkness

Which again was another factor on defeating The Witness

• The Nine pretty much showed The Drifter in the season of the drifter on that coin one of the black fleet pyramid which again was something that would make us prepared

So they likely knew The Witness was coming

[orchid folio]

he only has one life remaining without his ghost.

it would be cruel to make him continue

[river surge]

Nah he is fine

As long as he stays near us

NOTHING

[orchid folio]

Zavala for Retirement

[river surge]

and I mean nothing can kill him

[orchid folio]

he's served his time

he's served the city and humanity

[river surge]

Hes an awoken

He is pretty much destined to be a leader

[meager coral]

A number of people who either don’t have their ghosts anymore or weren’t guardians to begin with fight on the frontlines

[orchid folio]

they shouldn't- surely, there are plenty of guardians with ghosts

how many guardians are there cannonically?

[meager coral]

It’s war, people do it out willingness to fight, devrim, Amanda (rip), mithrax, caiatl, Zavala, eris was assumed to be on her last life

You could argue they shouldn’t, but every fighting soldier matters in holding ground, intel, aid, and at the end of the day they choose to

[hard sigil]

there were a lot. less now.

maybe a couple thousand

[sick yew]

We really have like no number to it

[orchid folio]

would be good to have a firm grasp

the final excision mission shows quite a lot

i would think it may be cannonically be a reflection of current player numbers

[sick yew]

Eh makes no real difference

Most of them are irrelevant anyways

[uncut drum]

he’s blu

[lofty badge]

Do we have any idea of what happend to Dead Orbit and the other factions? since it has been years now since they left and we have defeated the witness

like did they just leave the system even tho the last city is starting to thrive now with allies like the Imperial cabal and House light?

[sick yew]

They are just out in space as far as we know

I think there was a loretab mentioning they were looking for the wormhole where the other Awoken live

But I doubt they'll ever find that

[lofty badge]

fair

but would be fun to encounter them again

[sick yew]

Its not like they had much of a presence even pre exile

[lofty badge]

true

[jade granite]

Did some research on the tenno are baséd of a concept called "Eternalism"
BASICALLY timelines can bé accssed in to their own timelines
N frame wise i would say Protea (Chronomancer) ,etc etc

[river surge]

Is there a paticular reason why Xur always comes on Friday lore wise or its just like that because Bungie set him that day

just askying

[slim girder]

Bungie just set him for that day. But xur himself is still a mystery

An experiment by the nine to "make" an emissary themselves

[lofty badge]

Sir this is a Destiny lore channel not a warframe one

[jade granite]

I was just wondering of the Tenno counted as Paracasual cuz the similar things but sure i wont sa shit ig

[orchid folio]

Dead orbit had the best weapons

Jalal pls come back

[sick yew]

Well actually the factions didnt have any guns they just kinda bought them and slapped their colors and stickers on them

But then again Escape Velocity is my favorite gun so Jalal please come back

[frigid sparrow]

Dead orbit could at least feasibly come back

What if Jalaal is the new Dredgen

[strong tendon]

That would be fire

[slim girder]

I don't mean to be a buzzkill but aren't most of the factions just not a thing now? I know they left the city but something tells me they didn't stick together as a faction.

This was when the black fleet was in the system as well.

[strong tendon]

I’m sure dead orbit all left together

Aren’t they like a doomsday cult lmao

[trim grotto]

I do mean to be a buzzkill
YER'RE WRONG AND STOOPID, LG

[trim grotto]

Not exactly! Dead Orbit essentially believed in taking Humanity and abandoning the Solar System, because it contained the Traveler, and that was what brought all of our woes unto us. It's... not entirely incorrect, but it's also wilfully ignorant, as there are just as many threats outside of the heliopause.

[slim girder]

Not exactly. More they believe our place is among the stars living as a space ship colony sort of thing

As the name dead ORBIT suggests we wouldn't actually live on any planet

[strong tendon]

I see. So what are they doing now? Just kinda. Floating in their lil ships? Assuming they haven’t been raided and killed by literally anything

[slim girder]

Prolly

They took everything they had

[trim grotto]

Well, in Season of the Splicer, they finally did what they wanted. While they didn't take all of Humanity, they took their faction and also New Monarchy, and left the system.

We don't know where or how they are now.

[slim girder]

Though again this was during when the black fleet was around so I'm not sure if they got far.

[strong tendon]

They got diced

They never coming back

[trim grotto]

It is a possibility

I wouldn't expect them to return either way, though

[strong tendon]

They only brought maya back because her voice actress is amazing

[slim girder]

The future war cult and Lakshmi would definitely have a place in the endless night considering they use a vex device to peer into timelines.

"the device" as they call it.

[strong tendon]

I mean after lakshmi perished

[frigid sparrow]

all the factions are functionally void, besides dead orbit since they technically did what their ideology dictated

new monarchy wouldn't have reasons to exist for obvious reason, and Hideo left with DO in the frist place because he feared Ikora murdering the fuck out of him

and FWC pretty much dismantled themselves

[slim girder]

Hideo nothing but a coward

[frigid sparrow]

tbh I'd be scared of ikora murdering the fuck out of me too

[slim girder]

This is why I'm a DO supporter

[frigid sparrow]

I support DO because peter stormare is a goated voice actor

[slim girder]

Space emo gang

[frigid sparrow]

huh... forgot Saint referred to Mithrax as kell of kells back in splicer

[strong tendon]

FWC for the win

[trim grotto]

uuuuuh

[slim girder]

[strong tendon]

They may have been. Slightly racist. But I didn’t know that at the time

[slim girder]

Slightly is an understatement. Their leader risked the whole city being corrupted by the vex because she didn't like the eliksni

[strong tendon]

I know I was there

I saw her lifeless corpse on the ground in the Peter griffin death pose

[slim girder]

We've never actually seen vex on earth before so that could have been catastrophic if even one vex was able to get into the city. Clovis only had one and that was able to build a portal leading to a forge world

[tropic sorrel]

How much can I speak about the new expansion?

Can I spoil or do I need to tag it?

[slim girder]

The embargo has been lifted. You're free to talk about it as you like

[tropic sorrel]

Ok, first of all

WHY THE FUCK LODI AND IKORA KNEW EACH OTHER

Second, it's strange that Ophiuchus found Ikora near a car, that means that everyone died at the same time?

I hopped on these boat at like the very beginning of the final shape so basically idk nothing about anything

[slim girder]

Not true. Everyone didn't die at the same time. But with the collapse I would imagine it would have been mass panic and with everyone trying to escape they were all bunched up. Some in cars, some in ships and others in bunkers.

[hard sigil]

they don't. not really. Lodi knew Ikora's past self, before she was risen again as a guardian (and subsequently lost all memory of her past life)

[tropic sorrel]

Make sense lmao, bc if she was found there, that means she never got like rescued or retrieved

[hard sigil]

plus Nessa died at least half a century before the traveller even arrived, let alone the collapse

[slim girder]

Very few people survived that event.

And also yes nessa died because the nine threw a train at her

[tropic sorrel]

That scene was so hard imo

One time you're here, then you're not

[hard sigil]

that's how it goes

[tropic sorrel]

Felt personal, why bothering doing that instead of making another car hit her?

[hard sigil]

she was at a train track

and its much easier to die to a train ramming into you at full speed than a car

[tropic sorrel]

She was at an intersection

[hard sigil]

with a train track

[tropic sorrel]

And a METRO hit her

Lemme check the cutscene again

Brb

[hard sigil]

oh wait no you're right

[slim girder]

Yes it was a random train. Probably had detectives confused

[hard sigil]

probably REALLY messed up that petrol station

[tropic sorrel]

Yeah no train tracks

[tropic sorrel]

That's what I'm talking about

Do they even go to get her?

[dim minnow]

Ikora said she was rezzed in a car in a desert

[hard sigil]

judging by the fact she was still in the car, probably not

[dim minnow]

it's likely the Nine sent the car to the future

[tropic sorrel]

That's also why I asked if the collapse happened at the same time she was hit

[hard sigil]

a desert where Chicago is. renegades is taking place in a desert...

[hard sigil]

centuries later

[tropic sorrel]

Yeah it doesn't make sense to me

[hard sigil]

bodies go undiscovered all the time

[tropic sorrel]

I mean... She was in the desert bc maybe the place she died in became one

[hard sigil]

correct

the collapse had very major effects on the world

for instance, the Panama canal is known as the Panama Ravine now. because there's no water there anymore

[tropic sorrel]

But it doesn't make sense that no one came for her, or that the gas station attendant didn't call the police when they heard the crash.

If they heard it at all

[hard sigil]

the police investigating doesn't mean they'll find the body, and doesn't mean the nine wouldn't intervene to make sure they don't

[tropic sorrel]

Maybe the nine abducted her, like with Lodi

Kinda making sense now

[hard sigil]

it could be that the officer that would've found Nessa's body fell sick that day, or that they heard a noise in a different direction

the nine are weird like that. very subtle in their approach (sometimes)

[dim minnow]

Old Chicago is supposed to be a swamp though

unless they changed it

[hard sigil]

if they can arrange everything to happen in the solar system to lead to Ikora, Lodi, and the Guardian to arrive on Kepler to discover IIIs body, they could hide a body from a 60s police department

[dim minnow]

also, it is being heavily hinted at that Renegades is taking place on Mars

[hard sigil]

I know, I was just making fun

[tropic sorrel]

Nah it can't be mars

[hard sigil]

but yeah a desert next to a swamp is strange

[tropic sorrel]

The throne world is on Mars, right?

[hard sigil]

there's a LOT of evidence

the throne world is a pocket dimension

[dim minnow]

it isn't

[hard sigil]

it's just that the intro to witch queen, and Savathûn's ship, is on mars

[dim minnow]

that's where Savathun parked the Lure, but we accessed her Throne through a portal on the ship

[ember storm]

Savathun’s ship with a rupture (portal) linked to it is sitting in mars’ airspace

[tropic sorrel]

Explain this then

[dim minnow]

yes, the Enclave is located on Mars

[hard sigil]

the ship is on mars and you can see the ship from the enclsve

[ember storm]

Are you taking the ingame map as 1:1 real canonical locations

[dim minnow]

it's also where you access the SotW dungeon

which is also on Mars

[hard sigil]

this one

which you can see here, just in the distance of the enclave

[dim minnow]

remember the WQ campaign starts because Mars returned after it was taken by the Witness

so we start on Mars in WQ until we're at least halfway through the first mission

[tropic sorrel]

So they may have missed something like the perpetual desert.

[dim minnow]

which is when we first enter her Throne World

[hard sigil]

Throne Worlds are micro-universes carved out of the ascendant plane, and don't actually "exist" in realspace

(Oryx's throne, which was inverted into realspace as a part of the creation of the dreadnaught, is an exception to this)

[hard sigil]

the raid takes place in Unknown Space and on Kepler, which is a different concept from throne worlds

[tropic sorrel]

Nah man too much shit for my 60 IQ brain

All I have to say is, perpetual desert isn't on Mars

[hard sigil]

correct

[tropic sorrel]

But if it is, I'm willing to accept that I was wrong

[hard sigil]

Renegades, what we were talking about, is a different thing

[dim minnow]

also, the datapad lore we've been giving is indicating Mars

since there's a group of Cabal who mugged Xur

[hard sigil]

its the next expansion, coming in 5 months

[tropic sorrel]

I mean, they mentioned mercury like a couple times

[tropic sorrel]

Kepler's might be Mercury

Or not...

[hard sigil]

Kepler is a planetoid in the Oort cloud

which is about as far from mercury as we can get

[honest idol]

man, this is a great intro into a new saga ngl, that last mission turned UP the puzzle difficulty xD but yea as a whole really liked the narrative direction the story seems like it's going into

[dim minnow]

Kepler is practically on the edge of Sol

[hard sigil]

they mentioned Mercury because it's been heavily converted by the Vex

[hard sigil]

it's VERY far out

10x the distance from the sun to the Heliopause. frankly I don't know how anything on there is alive

[tropic sorrel]

I didn't know Kepler's an actual planetoid lmao

[hard sigil]

it's not (technically)

it's just that we know where it is

if it were real

I am very interested to see what side effects are going to come from IIIs death

Earth no longer has its member, IV is in mourning (again), Maya has to deal with the fact that she's essentially killed a god

and the Outers are trying to get Maya installed as their representative

[tropic sorrel]

How the nine work exactly?

Are they like taking care of a planet or sum?

[hard sigil]

they're fourth dimensional dark matter entities that formed by getting caught in the orbit of the celestial bodies of the solar system

so they're tied to the eight planets and the sun

it's easy to think they are the planets, but it's more like they're dependant on them, not the other way around. IIIs death doesn't mean the earth is going to explode or anything

[tropic sorrel]

So III died because of the collapse?

Apparently I'm new in this

[hard sigil]

III died due to Maya pulling it into the third dimension

which, like Lodi says, is like trying to live in a painting

[tropic sorrel]

That's bad

Rest In Power III

III was good, right?

Can any of the nine be good?

[hard sigil]

I'd say they're beyond morality, to a point

the Inners (I-IV) and IX are aligned with us

[dim minnow]

the lore tab for the seasonal artifact indicates that III ws quite fond of us

[hard sigil]

III in particular thought of us as their children

[dim minnow]

plus III was an Inner Orbit

the outer orbits were the ones who brought Maya to Kepler

and they knew she would kill either III or IV

[hard sigil]

in so far as they don't want to destroy us in their attempts to gain independent

[tropic sorrel]

So Maya basically killed our parent

Fuckin bitch

[hard sigil]

technically Maya is also a child of III

[tropic sorrel]

Parricide

Fuck you Maya

[hard sigil]

but it's purely metaphorical. III isn't actually responsible for life

[tropic sorrel]

Istg when I catch you

[hard sigil]

it's just that we developed in III's presence

[tropic sorrel]

Man these fuckin Kepler quests, I made one and 3 more appeared

[hard sigil]

the overall goal of the Nine is to sever their independence from Life, as they are only sentient due to the thoughts affecting their dark matter

it's just that the inners and outers disagree on how to go about it

the Inners want to co-operate with us, the Outers have.. various plans

VI is a believer in Sword Logic, for example, and their plan, as far as I can tell, is to create a throne world to orbit so they can unshackle themselves from the solar system

[tropic sorrel]

Sword logic?

I've read that in the dreadnought

[hard sigil]

the system that the Hive use

[tropic sorrel]

Actually I don't remember when I read that

Or where

[hard sigil]

gain power and the right to exist by denying others that right

(through death)

[tropic sorrel]

I killed a big mf and got that text

[tropic sorrel]

That's metal

[hard sigil]

it's like advanced survival of the fittest

[tropic sorrel]

Don't let the alpha males read that shi 🥀

[hard sigil]

once someone gains enough power through the sword logic, they create a singularity in the ascendant plane, which allows the creation of a throne world

apart from the hive gods, we know that Mara Sov, queen of the awoken, and Eris Morn have throne worlds

[tropic sorrel]

So savathuns make her throne world thru sword logic?

[hard sigil]

oh and crota

[tropic sorrel]

There's several throne worlds?

[hard sigil]

yes

[tropic sorrel]

fuckin 'ell

[hard sigil]

Throne worlds are essentially the owner's soul

manifested as a microuniverse

[tropic sorrel]

To whom did Eris deny the right?

The taken king?

[hard sigil]

partly

[tropic sorrel]

The guy in the dreadnought right?

[hard sigil]

she became the Hive God of Vengeance for a short time, and killed Savathûn, absorbing her Tithes

which is the main source that formed her throne world

[hard sigil]

yes. the Dreadnaught is Oryx's throne world

[tropic sorrel]

Ohhh

I get It

[hard sigil]

he used the power to Take to invert his throne world into real space from the ascendant plane

[tropic sorrel]

(i might forget that shit lmao)

[hard sigil]

it's a heavy topic

[tropic sorrel]

I can tell

I just want to shoot and move among planets

[hard sigil]

anyway here's what Eris looked like when she became a god for a few minutes

[tropic sorrel]

Smash

Next question

[tropic sorrel]

When did that happened? Before the final shape?

[hard sigil]

yeah

Season of the Witch, which was lightfall

[tropic sorrel]

Lightfall?

[hard sigil]

the expansion before Final Shape

[tropic sorrel]

And when did she got blessed with the light?

[hard sigil]

Eris was a guardian long before us

[tropic sorrel]

The Neptune one

I'm talking about Savathun

[hard sigil]

ah

[tropic sorrel]

I didn't specify

Sorry

[hard sigil]

that was in Witch Queen

[tropic sorrel]

So she died twice

[hard sigil]

she's died many times

[tropic sorrel]

fuckin 'ell

[hard sigil]

throne worlds are a source of technical immortality

the only way to permanently kill someone with a throne world is to do it inside the throne world

so even if we killed Savathûn, she has her Ghost, Immaru, and her throne world

[ember storm]

The first time Savathun and Xivu died was when oryx killed them to get a power boost in order to take on Akka

They knew about throne worlds before this because the two had legitimately murdered Oryx at one point and didn’t expect him to come back

[hard sigil]

lol

[tropic sorrel]

Like the Moe and Barney meme

[ember storm]

Iirc it was when “Auryx” was basically acting too soft and trying to broker piece between them and another faction

So the two just murdered him

Then Auryx woke up in his throne and declared himself god king Oryx when he returned

[tropic sorrel]

"Die mf"
**Comes back
"Not fair"

[hard sigil]

it's important to note that the first time an individual is sent to their throne world, they need to be brought back through a ritual relating to them.

Navigation for Oryx, Cunning for Savathûn, War for Xivu, and Vengeance for Eris

[tropic sorrel]

The one that uses Lodi as a speaker tell to the guardian something about vengeance

Like vengeance required or something like that

[hard sigil]

that would be IV, who is just angry for IIIs death

[tropic sorrel]

It was II I think

Angry with who?

Maya?

[hard sigil]

IN THE GRIEF OF LOSS, I CARE NOT FOR RULES.

[hard sigil]

yes

[tropic sorrel]

Wait a damn minute

[ember storm]

Waited

[tropic sorrel]

Crow was originally Uldrens right?

[hard sigil]

mhm

[tropic sorrel]

And he got blessed with the light

[hard sigil]

yes

[ember storm]

He had a ghost resurrect him

[tropic sorrel]

Came back as crow and that

[ember storm]

Uldren did not come back

Crow is a different person

[tropic sorrel]

Bc of amnesia and that

Yeah

[ember storm]

it’s not amnesia

the memories literally do not exist

there’s not a fix for it

they are separate people

[hard sigil]

(unless you're an exo and happen to retain like. shadows of a distany memory)

[ember storm]

amnesia also isn’t really a real thing

the only way a person can actually just lose blocks of their memories after a physical incident is from literal traumatic brain injury

[tropic sorrel]

Then how Savathûns give to Crow Uldrens memories and why?

[ember storm]

it’s not like a “oh what happens if I get amnesia before a trial”

[dim minnow]

Deepsight

[ember storm]

Darkness is tied to memory, and she just used the power of deepsight

[dim minnow]

my guess at least

[ember storm]

She didn’t literally give him back the memories

She replayed them for him through his eyes

[tropic sorrel]

Now I have to ask what's deepsight?

[hard sigil]

she basically gave him a biography

[ember storm]

Have you done the Witch Queen campaign

[tropic sorrel]

This is deep asf lmao

[dim minnow]

a Darkness power tied directly to memory

allows one to reveal forgotten secrets

[ember storm]

Basically the entire campaign revolves around learning deepsight, which ties memories to physical objects and locations

[tropic sorrel]

Kinda, I don't remember finished it tho

[hard sigil]

and she did this for herself too, alongside a Witch she made write down her life story

[dim minnow]

ingame, we use it to manifest platforms and such

[ember storm]

Crow himself is the object so when Savathun used deepsight on him, the memories of Uldren were replayed

[tropic sorrel]

Yeah I remember that

[dim minnow]

the Relic in the Enclave also uses it

[ember storm]

Deepsight can replay a conversation that happened around a specific object, for example

[tropic sorrel]

I haven't touched the throne world in like months

[dim minnow]

the time rifts on Mars I believe are also basically an advanced version of it used by the Witness

[hard sigil]

it's almost like time travel but for specific objects

you can't really interact with anything within it

[ember storm]

it also gaslit me into believing Osiris made the sundial through darkness

Actually I don’t think we got an actual explanation for that one

[tropic sorrel]

Sundial?

[ember storm]

Time Machine he made to rescue saint from before he died

[hard sigil]

the Drifter provided "engineering advice" and supplied some darkness artifacts

[ember storm]

I thought it was like a seed of silver wings for a while

[hard sigil]

and also it's Vex stuff

[ember storm]

But I misremembered when he got one and the fact he planted it somewhere

[tropic sorrel]

What about the Saint that isn't Saint?

[ember storm]

Was it the Io one?

[tropic sorrel]

I remember they got into a vex simulator or sum

[ember storm]

I mean that was like a big plot point of Echoes

[hard sigil]

the Saint we have is a saint from an alternate timeline that we saved

[ember storm]

The Saint originating from this timeline died, yes

[hard sigil]

the "real" saint of our timeline is entombed in the infinite forest

[ember storm]

We went and found a saint that would’ve also died without our help

So it’s not like we stole him from another timeline

[tropic sorrel]

That thing

Infinite forest

[hard sigil]

a vex simulation engine

it's like a holodeck from star trek

but like. More

[tropic sorrel]

That happened in Shadowkeep..?

[hard sigil]

the vex can only time travel "sideways", pulling things from alternative timelines, not from our past or future

[trim grotto]

Curse of Osiris. Massive simulation engine of the Vex built into the core of Mercury.

[ember storm]

A season in the year that Shadowkeep released

Not the dlc campaign itself

[trim grotto]

Well, we found his corpse in CoO, and rescued him in Dawn, a Shadowkeep season, yeah

[tropic sorrel]

Yeah I just figured that out

"season of dawn"

[ember storm]

Shadowkeep’s ending with the Garden of Salvation raid caused the Sol Divisive vex to invade the moon

Stopping their invasion during Season of Undying led to their network becoming unstable, which led cabal remnants to try and exploit the infinite forest and the sundial

[hard sigil]

it's very weird because there is vex stuff on Venus that is older from humanity, but it's not because the vex inserted themselves backwards. it's that they pulled it all from a timeline where the vex were in the solar system since then

[ember storm]

Osiris got us to stop them while also succeeding in recusing Saint with the sundial, hence Season of Dawn

[hard sigil]

whilst the vex of our timeline have only been around since the golden age

[ember storm]

The first vex we encountered in the solar system to be specific

Vex themselves are a lot older than any of that

[hard sigil]

yeah

[ember storm]

To put it in perspective, statues aboard the Dreadnaught are older than earth as a physical object, and the vex invading oryx’s throne world is what made him put his throne in the Dreadnaught

[tropic sorrel]

So the dreadnought wasn't originally a throne world?

Just a ship or sum

[hard sigil]

it was Oryx's ship, yes

made from Akka, the Worm of Secret's corpse

[slow berry]

Oh is that how that works

[hard sigil]

yeah

[slow berry]

Aren't the descendant and precursors from the past and future though?

[hard sigil]

Alison confirmed it in her interview

[slow berry]

I need to watch that

[hard sigil]

from within the vault of glass

which is the only place they can manipulate our timeline

[slow berry]

Ohhhhhh thats banger lore actually

So the entire vault of glass is the only place they can pull from past and present?

And that explains Skolas pulling past and present house of wolves members during his last campaign mission

[hard sigil]

and Maya has Precursors because she likes the design I guess. we see her converting normal Hezen into them by dipping them in radiolaria

[slow berry]

That's like one bit of vex lore i never had clear

[hard sigil]

yeah that's why the vault is such a big deal

it's an ontological weapon and a self-contained time machine

[slow berry]

On a side note a personal friend of mine has a friend that knows Allison and that personal friend of mine is an insane tier writer so I know destiny is in good hands by association

That and yknow allison has been cooking

[slow berry]

I knew about the ontological aspects of it but I didn't know the actual vex time travel shenanigans were tied to the vault itself

God I hope we see Praedyth eventually then actually

That'd be the hardest lore payoff in all of gaming history

[hard sigil]

he was mentioned by name in echoes so it's not out of the question

but it might've been an alternate timeline Praedyth

[slow berry]

whichever praedyth we get is fine by me

Also

Bring back Super Good Advice that was such good lore

Pahanin being so fuck scared of ever being alone again because of the vault that his gun is a real intelligence in and out of it is such a cool idea

And it could work so well in D2's systems if adapted to them

[hard sigil]

we've got a fair share of sentient guns

DARCI, Hierarchy, Xenophage, Whisper

[slow berry]

Yeah but i'll be real they're all kinda lame and don''t really lean into it

[hollow hinge]

Parasite

[slow berry]

Xenophage, Whisper and Touch of Malice (im counting it) are all just guns who happen to be sentient, D.A.R.C.I. is cute but aside from the numerical hp data (which is a neat detail) it doesn't do much, Parasite I'll give you does lean a lot into the hive parasite kill more be more thing and I think is really cool specially the danger it poses to the player and the tradeoff oportunities it gives and i do like hierarchy of needs playing into soteria helping you aim and what not

But I just have always liked SGA's simple, "its a gun that helps you out" identity

Even if they brought it back as-is (maybe make all rounds refund ammo since power levels have vastly increased since launch d1) it'd be super neat i think

[blazing wasp]

How would touch of malice be sentient, it doesnt have "oryx" in it, just his... Essence? Heart?

[trim grotto]

I would not say that it is at all, lest you count the vague hunger that the Weapons of Sorrow seem to have.

[strong tendon]

Could also be a thing like they’re the vex from the past and she’s obsessed with the past (the golden age)

[hard sigil]

perhaps

[sick yew]

I like to believe she just thinks they look cool

Literally no other reason

[hard sigil]

and she's not wrong

[modern lodge]

What would happen if someone ate a stasis shards?

[sick yew]

I doubt the average person could chew through one of those

[hard sigil]

the crystals would probably dissipate

[modern lodge]

Btw light constructs, can they make permanent creations?

[hard sigil]

nothing the guardian can weird can. it's a headcanon of mine that the traveller only gave us the power over energies, not matter, because it knew we'd probably start just splitting atoms or earthbending

but generally capital L light can. the big tree of silver wings in RoN and the terraforming of all the planets, for example

[modern lodge]

Can I use the solar/void eververse sets as an example because those are constructs probs

[hard sigil]

I'd say the armour is built, and we emit Light through it

[modern lodge]

Yeah but there is just a straight up golden gun on the hunters hip

[hard sigil]

I'd say Golden Gun and the other Weapon supers would be better examples but they're temporary constructs at most

(dissipates after use, may just be energy in the shape of an object)

[sick yew]

Afaik we can use the light in basically any way we want to, emotes in which we do stuff with various objects are likely just the light too

In lore the Light is far less restricting than it is ingame
You could probably make a golden gun rocket launcher with enough training

[modern lodge]

Chewable solar light

Hungry

[hard sigil]

the fireteam training relentlessly to be able to create hydrogen bombs out of thin air

[ionic stag]

Hi, it might be the wrong place but is there youtube channels that cover Destiny lore extensively ( except Byf ) ? I'd like to dig a bit deeper and understand concepts better since it helps me enjoy the game a lot more

[trim grotto]

To be honest, I'm fairly sure a fair chunk of the regulars here don't actually watch lore youtubers. You could try Myelin, he's done a ton of Destiny lore, or there are lore podcasters over in a server called Lore Hub. Never actually checked out their content, though.

[hard sigil]

byf has like a monopoly, but there's channels like the Lore Vault who upload cutscenes and dialogue

[trim grotto]

Lore Vault being an archival channel as opposed to discussing lore, to be clear

[sick yew]

I mean who needs lore YouTube when you got super knowledgeable people here like Dova

Or Eris

Not you tho

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

What are your thoughts on EoF btw

Narrative wise

Or have you still not played it

[trim grotto]

_>

<_<

[sick yew]

Ain't no way

[trim grotto]

look elden ring has been really good okay

[sick yew]

Have you bought it at least

[trim grotto]

oh yeah of course

[sick yew]

Well you do you gamer

[hard sigil]

mael doesn't know the cool secrets Lodi tells us....

[river surge]

Does our Guardian ever grieve or regret or cry?

I mean in general does Guardians ever feel bad or cry or have regrets

[frigid sparrow]

pretty much most of forsaken is us going on a path of revenge in grief for cayde

and we were pretty damn close when ghost nearly died in final shape

[river surge]

That was most likely revenge

[frigid sparrow]

yeah, but we're not just taking revenge for funsies

[river surge]

Yeah, that was prob the closest we have gotten, we literally got our Guardian on his knees begging

Creating a bond with ur ghost and then losing it the moment u win the battle is just sad

[slow berry]

guardians are extremely long lived and living is making choices and some of those you'll regret

[river surge]

True

[slow berry]

Shaxx has hangups about being a Warlord, Zavala mourned the death of his son for centuries and still grieves for him, Osiris still feels a lot of shame and inadequacy after having not only lost the light, but having lost Sagira and having betrayed the Vanguard and Saint

Crow's characterization over The Final Shape is marked entirely by his regrets over his actions after Mara's disappearance as Prince Uldren, The Drifter mourned Eris Morn incredibly emotionally after her death as well

[river surge]

I wonder if Ikora got affected now having and knowing the truth about her past

[slow berry]

Guardians are all ultimately human

[river surge]

Before becoming a guardian

[slow berry]

Ikora has a bit of a thing going on with the Ahamkara wish she made and the Hidden's calling where her identity is very maleable, but we do see her outwardly angry at the Nine for seemingly making all her choices for her and murdering an innocent woman for their plans

it's hard to know what's really going on with her now, but i do wanna know how she feels about III seemingly giving her back her memories as some form of apology or compensation for the necessary evil

[river surge]

Mhm, and the fact that she is most likely the only guardian who got her/his answer about his/hers past life before being a guardian (I might be wrong)

[slow berry]

Crow knows of his life as Prince Uldren

[river surge]

Yes yes

Forgot that

I am missing important pieces

Here

[slow berry]

Not guardian, rather risen, but Savathûn as well

[river surge]

Yeah correct

[slow berry]

Micah-10 found her exo records too, and Ana Bray found out about hers as well

there's been quite a handful really

[river surge]

I didnt know that

[frigid sparrow]

Ana isn't particularly happy about her past life but that's mostly because clovis SUCKS

[river surge]

Somethign new learned

[slow berry]

it's just that for most it's unfeasible and official vanguard policy is to not look into it

[river surge]

I knew smth about Ana but not Micah

[frigid sparrow]

one of the other coyotes knows their names too

past life rather

[river surge]

Hypothetically we dont know our past life cause we might have been an exo, human or awoken

[frigid sparrow]

Shinobu

she had a diary of her past life

[river surge]

But Ikora may have been the first first probably

[slow berry]

at some point we were supposed to have had different starting missions, the one that stayed in the game is the one for the Exo

[river surge]

Wait really

Never knew that

[slow berry]

i'm p sure that like we shouldn't be able to be awoken i think? but y'know

[frigid sparrow]

a lot of hunters are the ones who typically remember their past lives

[slow berry]

ultimately it doesnt matter

the point is what you do with your life now

[river surge]

Noticed that

[ember storm]

@slow berry what makes you say that

Nothing confirms that we had to have died in the collapse, we never see our body onscreen

It is perfectly feasible for an awoken who left the reef to just end up dying on earth at some point

That’s how Zavala died

Or maybe they’d even just be a descendant of those awoken

[sage mason]

Guys can you tell me more about the iron lords what's their backstory? I read something about ash&iron and now I'm curious. The aesthetics are sooo nice

[blazing wasp]

It's implied we're a skeleton (if we're not exo), given possible post mortem activities from other things we can safely estimate we've been dead for at least one or two days.

[ember storm]

All that matters is your corpse ended up there

[ember storm]

They’re just the first generation of what we call guardians

[blazing wasp]

Not out of the question we literally died two days before being revived

[ember storm]

The reason they’re called iron lords is because they didn’t have the luxury of access to modern tech and relied more on just melting down scrap to use for armor and weapons

Also quite a few would’ve just been reformed warlords at that point anyway

I don’t think we’ve ever been given a direct origin story for the movement as a whole

Risen just decided to stop being horrible people and forced other horrible people to also stop or just die

[blazing wasp]

They even tried recruiting lord shaxx, who at the time was a warlord (who denied, beat the crap out of felwinter)

[sage mason]

Oh I see that's nice information thank you
Love the Knight aesthetic

[ember storm]

It’s not specifically knight

Some of it is samurai or Viking

If you’ve played for honor, that’s about what you can expect

[sage mason]

I saw cur scene of a monument with big statues and a fireplace and there was a female iron lords hunter
Do you know where this is from?

[ember storm]

the rise of iron dlc from D1

That wouldn’t be a fireplace

The hunter in that scene would be Lord Efrideet, one of the only surviving iron lords, only because she basically left the group before their final mission

[sage mason]

U sure? There's some variation but for me the hunter set with the bear head is totally medieval

[ember storm]

Yeah that’s just one armor set

There wasn’t like a strict uniform or anything

[sage mason]

And Saladin

[ember storm]

All iron banner armor is iron lords

Saladin is specifically just wearing modern Titan armor with fancy trimmings added on

Nothing of that is directly medieval knight

[sage mason]

cause you meant it's more samurai

[ember storm]

I said that there are other iron lord armors based on different historical sources

[sage mason]

Ok sure 👍🏻

[ember storm]

It is very plainly obvious if you look at the different iron banner sets

They’re not just relegated to the theming of medieval knight

The iron forerunner set is based off Mamuthone from Sardinia

https://preview.redd.it/dha4vrumsah71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=241a862c85cff108e12bc8bef8867d0d5a5ed399

[sage mason]

Interesting

[slow berry]

i suppose i just assumed we died in the car but now that you mention it yeah ig an awoken from the reef could've just gotten shot and killed near the cosmodrome

[strong tendon]

I’m on board with the theory that the lord of every nothing is VI (Saturn)