📚lore-discussion

[trim grotto]

The Light and Darkness saga is an official cutscene by the way
The 5 minute one
It covers the basics like the Golden Age and the Traveler terraforming worlds and such

[hard sigil]

I miss getting to see it every time I went to the tower

[tame harness]

Ohh okayokayokay

[sick yew]

Mention the Shadowkeep cover art

[tame harness]

I js started playing playing d2 like a month ago (I've always been on and off) but my dad has like 15k hours on d2 and sameish on d1 so I've always wanted to learn

Soo yea I love lore and need to know it all from d2

[hard sigil]

there is a lot of narrative around

[trim grotto]

Ten years of lore
There's a whole world of lore out there

[hard sigil]

they've put much effort into getting into detials

[tame harness]

Yea so I have a lot to catch up on

[sick yew]

Not all lore is equally relevant

[tame harness]

I gotta gts tho guys thanks for a shove in the right direction, I deeply appreciate it

[tame harness]

All lore is relevant

[sick yew]

Debatable

[trim grotto]

Lies
The Nightmare Daddy is just as relevant as the Collapse

[sick yew]

The most crucial lore is clearly investigator Maier of the FWC

[tame harness]

All lore is equal, its there for a reason

[hard sigil]

if the destiny marketing team was cool they'd actually make a puppet show version of The Nightmare Daddy

[sick yew]

Plans change
Certain things they were setting up got discontinued or changed later on

[hard sigil]

I'd say like 75% of the actual text amount of lore is there to provide flavour, the 25% is what is actually relevant to playing the game and understanding what's going on

[tame harness]

Still there, flavor text is the tastiest lore

flavor text

[hard sigil]

yeah you get it

[tame harness]

Its in the name

[hard sigil]

of course I want to hear about what a ghost I'll never meet is doing

[tame harness]

But gn guys I had a joyful time talking, my sleep schedule is done for

[final geyser]

so was III dead for the entire campaign?

[sick yew]

Yes

[final geyser]

do we know roughly when they died?

(also like? do the IX have specific pronouns?)

[sick yew]

it

Or they if referring to the collective obviously

[sick yew]

Sometime after Episode 1 lmao

We dont know precisely

[final geyser]

oh so III has been dead

[sick yew]

Mhm

[final geyser]

i thought it died during the campaign

[sick yew]

It must have been decently recent
Because III's death caused the house of Exile to get angry which seemingly didn't happen all that long ago according to the Dean

But pre campaign for sure

[sick yew]

Well it died a 2nd time in the finale lmao

[final geyser]

"You are here so that I would not die alone again" actually fucked me up ngl

but im assuming it was either after Orin quit, or the catalyst that allowed Orin to quit

[sick yew]

Still I die afraid

[sick yew]

Orin likely quit because it was needed for the events to play out the way they did

[final geyser]

how does Lodi keep his freedom? compared to Orin being fully controlled

[sick yew]

The vote for him as the next Emissary has not yet passed

III would have been the deciding voice but well they're dead

[final geyser]

doesnt he become proper emissary during III's final moments

glowing eye n all that

[sick yew]

He continues to be called Ambassador even by III

Which is likely what they say to someone supposed to be but not yet agreed on as Emissary

[final geyser]

ahhh ok

oh on that note how is Maya that powerful??

how was she able to pull one of the IX into our dimension?

[sick yew]

She has an Echo some of the most powerful artifacts in the universe

She can take control of anyone

[final geyser]

as far as weve seen the IX are untouchable so far

[sick yew]

And she forced III to give itself a physical form despite that being a death sentence

[final geyser]

interesting

also is drifter just permanently old now?

[sick yew]

Unclear

[final geyser]

like I figure his ghost could just res him young again?

[sick yew]

Thats what I would assume too

[final geyser]

why doesn't Maya just take control of us?

i mightve missed smthn

[sick yew]

Good question
She took control of Saint back in like Episode 1

And also us but mostly just to stun us

[final geyser]

wonder if us being paracausal changes things?

[sick yew]

We are likely much more resistant to it

[sleek matrix]

She can stun and slow us

But not full control

[sick yew]

She sorta took control of Saint

Not like fully but it sure wasn't him properly

[sleek matrix]

Because he an exo too

[sick yew]

I dont think race would have anything to do with it

[sleek matrix]

Yes because of the way exo were made

[final geyser]

i def like how bungie is setting up maya tho

i remember a rly big issue for a long time was we couldnt rly have a vex villain

[sick yew]

The radiolaria?

[sleek matrix]

If you forget about that one season yea

[sick yew]

Or what are you referring to here

[final geyser]

cuz they dont talk

maya is such a perfect face for the vex and eof (imo) redeemed her so hard after she sold in echoes

[sick yew]

Because if so that makes no sense
The Radiolaria is just there to prevent DER when previously exposed to Clarity

[sleek matrix]

Its still a point in the graph

[sick yew]

?

[final geyser]

iirc the Radiolaria actually prevents Billboarding

not DER

[sick yew]

One leads to another

[final geyser]

theres like a billion other smaller things that prevent DER

from what i remember, radiolaria is what gives the exos "Life" - an exo without it is just a machine with a program

[sick yew]

Brain deterioration was a problem for Clovis because simulated brians were too perfect
So he used radlioaria + clarity to add a sorta natural background radiation that forces the digital brain to stay active similar to how a real one does

[river surge]

About The Shattered Cycle dlc, what could that be about

[hard sigil]

also the radiolaria isn't actual radiolaria. it was fundamentally altered into what is used by Clarity

[hard sigil]

assumedly the dreaming city

[final geyser]

the What

[sick yew]

Its just a fluid that is unpredictable in its nature
Thats all it does
Be unpredictable

[river surge]

Sounds like Europa and Elsie for me

[hard sigil]

in what way

[final geyser]

is that Y8S4 or????

[hard sigil]

shattered cycle. shattered throne is Mara's throne world. the dreaming city is in a cycle

seems pretty cut and dry

[river surge]

And imagine its about the taken

[sick yew]

I don't think they'd be this obvious about it

[river surge]

Thats what I thought

[hard sigil]

coming from the team that made Echoes, the episode that introduces the Echoes

and the Witch Queen. the DLC about the Witch Queen

[sick yew]

That ain't even the official name is it

[river surge]

The Witch Queen had a build up to it and Echoes too

[sick yew]

Its a in house codename

[final geyser]

what is Shattered Cycle?

[river surge]

Shattered Cycle has nothing

[final geyser]

ive never heard of it until now

[sick yew]

A future season i believe
Imma be real I ain't sure either

@hard sigil where you getting any of this from anyway

[final geyser]

where did this info come from?

[river surge]

The Shattered Cycle is the 3rd fate Saga expansion

[sick yew]

SOURCE
NOW

[sick yew]

The what

[final geyser]

SOURCE

[river surge]

BUNGIE

THEY REVEALED IN EDGE OF FATE LIVESTREAM

[final geyser]

oh found it

[river surge]

ALL THE FUTURE EXPANSIONS IN THIS SAGA

[final geyser]

https://x.com/DestinyTheGame/status/1919786806612037930?t=YvC3-yGce87BGLbGRz6pmw&s=19

Destiny 2 (@DestinyTheGame)

A new saga begins in Destiny 2 on July 15, 2025.

The Edge of Fate // July 15, 2025
Renegades // Winter 2025
Shattered Cycle // Summer 2026
The Alchemist // Winter 2026

X · May 6, 2025, 4:10 PM

[hard sigil]

twas a twid

[sick yew]

And we know those aren't project titles

If we assume they are not my money would be on the awoken too but eh

I hope not cause screw them

[river surge]

And it might actually be about the awoken since The Nine are related to them and we know this expansion is about the Nine

All of the future expansions are related to the nine most likely

[sleek matrix]

The random singularity they came from

[sick yew]

Related is a strong word
Mara had some dealings with them a few times but that's like it

Random?

[river surge]

See thats what I mean

[sick yew]

She sold them Skolas back in the reef war days

*gifted

[hard sigil]

Orin was sent to investigate the Nine by Mara

which led to her becoming the emissary

[sleek matrix]

Because of sin death

[strong tendon]

Shattered cycle sounds very break the dreaming city curse-y to me

[sleek matrix]

I dont think were going back to dreaming

Dlc is meant to be new area

[hard sigil]

there was a little buzz about it being about Elsie's time loop

but I doubt it

[slim girder]

Shattered cycle.
Dreaming city is under a curse that "cycles" every 3 weeks. And the "Shattered" throne is also there.
Could possibly finally be where we break that curse riven placed on the city through the wishes of savathun.

[hard sigil]

that's what I'm saying

[slim girder]

Going almost a whole year before seeing savathun again might also be a pretty reasonable amount of time for her to have formulated that "revenge" she talked about at the end of heresy

Might not be in the dreaming city specifically but it could be another awoken place where events there could effect everything else.

I'm on the boat that the curse does have some solution to it. We've gotten rid of the one who cast it and we also dealt with dul incaru in the shattered throne.

[little gorge]

not all of them

[little gorge]

they're not because we know their codenames are stuff like "apollo" and "behemoth"

also they would have said codename: the shattered cycle

[sick yew]

I personally like to believe that raid boss music actually plays and every time the guardian leitmotiv kicks in they are like "ah fuck it's over now"

[orchid folio]

Maya fucking sucks.

Not enough to be reincarnated as a racist robot, she also turns out to be an abusive and possessive spouse.

And now world ender....

Oryx had rizz.

The witness had Aura.

Savathun....that lass has sass

[hard sigil]

racist?

[slim girder]

Maya ain't racist. Lakshmi was though.

[strong tendon]

Distributary is an option

[orchid folio]

when she was Lakshmi

[hard sigil]

technically a different person

[ember storm]

she wasn't ever Lakshmi

she says it herself in her first appearance

[river surge]

The Witness had no aura bro, all that just for it to become a linear fusion

[hard sigil]

parting the veil. Maya copied her brain onto the brain-dead Lakshmi and sent her to earth

the line is "Is a facsimile it's archetype? no"

[ember storm]

Maya is the archetype, Lakshmi was just a facsimile artificially created by her

Maya was never Lakshmi

she never experienced anything as Lakshmit

they operated completely independent of each other

[hard sigil]

I don't know why I'm arguing I agree with you

[ember storm]

she only has the face of the lakshmi exo because it's preferable to either having a vex face or trying to create a creepy humanoid doll one

[ember storm]

witness didn't become euphony

[river surge]

Even worse yes

[hard sigil]

-# (I also think she just thinks Lakshmi's design is cool and that's why she chose her twice)

[ember storm]

community really needs to lay off the "oooh we turn EVERYTHING into guns"

it's happened like, 2 or 3 times in 10 years

[river surge]

Still dosent make up the fact that The Witness had aura when everything he did was basically destroy npc level civilizations

[jagged badge]

It didn’t

[river surge]

Oryx was the only one is the story who had aura

Best villain

in Destiny

[ember storm]

the entire taken king campaign was him trying to insult us only for him to immediately backtrack in the final mission saying "You're not worthy to face me"

he died like a coward

[river surge]

Still makes him the best aura farmer in Destiny

He died like a king

[ember storm]

what cowering at the very tail end of his dreadnaught letting his daughters die before him?

yeah really inspirational

[orchid folio]

Bruh....

[ember storm]

if he really subscribed to sword logic in its entirety he'd have been the first to face us right at the door

[river surge]

Plot

[jagged badge]

?

What’s that even meant to mean here

[orchid folio]

The witness looked at that one titan and turned him into confetti

[river surge]

Literally what I said

[orchid folio]

Rhulk also had aura

[jagged badge]

Are you going to elaborate or just leave it at meaningless nonsense

[river surge]

Oryx coming first to face us at the door

[orchid folio]

Impressive since he had very little build up

[jagged badge]

Which he didn’t do

[river surge]

Which he could do

thats the thing

[jagged badge]

Which he didn’t do

That is what shows his character

[orchid folio]

Oryx turned into a mid gun. Looses points for that

[jagged badge]

Which is what Waltz was pointing out

[jagged badge]

He didn’t

[narrow ivy]

is xero here?

[jagged badge]

Who?

[river surge]

I dont think so

[narrow ivy]

@trail rivet this guy

[orchid folio]

Touch of malice

[ember storm]

he didn't become that

we constructed it

it's a gun

[orchid folio]

Part of him is an ingredient. So he could go on killing

[ember storm]

the only enemy to literally transmute into a weapon is Xol into Whisper, which was also CANONICALLY a trick to become immortal that nobody has figured out

[ember storm]

that was meant to be a spiritual passing of the torch to his successor through his sword

they would kill him and take his sword

we actively dismantled the sword logic and his plan

we literally just tore out his heart and stuck it in the gun

nothing about him is going on through that

if someone removed my liver and put it in their gun do i become that gun

[jagged badge]

Why do you ask?

[jagged badge]

What do you mean?

How does a charcter’s actions in their first appearance not reflect their character?

[ember storm]

like the entire point of the Echo in Heresy was coming to terms with the fact that all 3 hive siblings became heretics

the Echo was laughing at the idea of Oryx even having children that he genuinely cared for

if you really believe Oryx to be a completely perfect testament to the sword logic then you fell for the in-universe propaganda that the books of sorrow are

[sick yew]

@jagged badge
IF I COULD CHOOSE JUST ONE DAY

[jagged badge]

AND LIVE IT ALL OVER AGAIN

[sick yew]

ID GO BACK TO THE START WHEN YOU STOLE MY HEART

God this shit is such a fucking banger

[jagged badge]

Honestly

[sick yew]

Troy Stains who the track is credited to also has another, bit more country themed, banger aswell

Somebody's Knockin'

[strong tendon]

Can savathun return soon pretty please

[ember storm]

I don’t think she’s really eager to see us again after what happened last time

[slim girder]

Some time I'm sure. She's definitely got a bone to pick now

I think she'd be very eager to see us again if it's to try and destroy us

[frigid sparrow]

Given the current year, she doesn't seem like she'll have a role to play. However, Shattered Cycle seems to be something that she'll have a major part in based on name alone and some theorizing

[slim girder]

Don't think bungie has put any lore in the game teasing the future like they did back in heresy and some other previous seasons.

Yet.......

Just gotta keep a watch out for anything that could be talking about something being actively monitored or something going on in the background.

Like how in echoes we got a lore tab talking about a conversation between eido and eramis. Or how in heresy one of the lore tabs was a whole argument amongst the nine.

[strong tendon]

Isn’t there an alchemist mentioned in the desert perpetual raid lore?

[slim girder]

I haven't looked at the lore. Plus some of the stuff has been datamined so I'm just waiting until it's all out before going into it.

Think there's only 3 pages that have been unlocked legitimately

[strong tendon]

Oops that may have been datamined idk though I haven’t read it I just saw something about it online

Sorry bout that

[jagged badge]

There’s lore right now teasing Renegades/Shadow & Order

The datapads you can find in Portal activities this week

Last week’s was also teasing some Vex shenanigans

[slim girder]

Do you know which ones? I haven't had a proper look at the data pads and also I don't think the game saves them as lore books which kinda sucks

I don't have all of them yet either

[jagged badge]

It does when you get enough of them

[slim girder]

Ahhh ok then. I'll have to go back and grab them then. Cheers.

[strong tendon]

What hints specifically? I skimmed over a few talking about mayas vex and taken

[jagged badge]

Xûr got jumped by a new group of Cabal who wanted paracausal weapons but also Xûr’s flight logs

[strong tendon]

Yay cabal expansion

[orchid folio]

Good to know Salvatori is returning for Renegades.

That OST is going to be flames

[daring iris]

obviously the DEO is kind of designed to look like a federal agency but is the US government or United States ever mentioned in any of the lore cards or anything?

it just kind of struck me as something that was intentionally absent from the collectors edition documents

[safe galleon]

did we ever get any info on who or what the herald of finality is supposed to be? are they anyone important or just some stronger-than-average minion of the witness that happened to be the last man standing in its arsenal since we already killed or incapacitated most of the other threats the witness had thrown out up to that point

[ember storm]

It was just a thing placed there for the sole purpose of slowing us down

[daring iris]

nevermind yeah I guess it was

[orchid folio]

is there any credence to the idea that one of the IX is a massive Star Wars nerd and just wants to mess around in that unverse

[strong tendon]

If there’s anyone that could do that it would be the nine lmao

[ember storm]

It would be Starhorse

also destiny and Star Wars are already connected via Fortnite

[river surge]

Starhorse my favorite

[river surge]

From what I have seen from the lore book, dont know if its fake or not, it is said that there is a minotaur as the same size as a exodus ship

[strong tendon]

Well there’s a harpy big enough to stand on so

[river surge]

Yeah but imagine a minotaur that big

I would just scream

[desert iris]

Am i tweaking or did ikoras body get pulled with the train

[honest idol]

who is the oldest known destiny character that's still alive canonically?

[dim minnow]

Could possibly be one of the Hive gods since they're billions of years old

[ember storm]

Technically speaking we have no idea how long Saint spent in the infinite forest

[sick yew]

Minutes, maybe hours

Possibly days

potentiall years

[ember storm]

It was a 24 hour Mr beast challenge

[sick yew]

I locked legendary Titan Saint-14 in the infinite forrest for 24 hours!!!!!

If he survives he gets his husband back

[ember storm]

Last one still standing in the vex hyperbolic time chamber wins a new skimmer

[sick yew]

Sign me the fuck up

[eager trout]

I just made Eido upset by fighting the Scorn that made the scorgan

I must now spend eternity in the trash can emote

<@&1019968312370806855>

[dense pike]

sxdxc0 has been banned!

[noble shard]

Ah scryl beat me

[untold cypress]

[orchid folio]

would have said Saint

if we're talking guardians

[jagged badge]

Why Saint?

[orchid folio]

always got the feeling he was from actual ancient greece

[blazing wasp]

would you value a guardians age by their past life that wasnt theirs

cause if you are, then saint is not even close.

[orchid folio]

but I am aware of the lore books talking about the oldest guardian resurrected being a cromagnon

[blazing wasp]

There's someone from ancient egypt, who was around for the first documented battle between two armed forces of people.

or in other words, from the first battle of the first ever war.

but those are different people from the guardian that revived.

[jagged badge]

Saint is Russian

[orchid folio]

Fair point. It would be neat to learn about the first ever risen tho

[blazing wasp]

(rather, saint's accent is russian, confirmed by the devs, but they intentionally dont give him a "nationality")

[jagged badge]

Also confirmed by the Mercury-A lore

[blazing wasp]

Cayde-6 for example is confirmed to indeed have a south american accent, and that he's not from "south america"

[blazing wasp]

this i did not know

[jagged badge]

You should read it, it’s really quite a fascinating entry

Rewording that, it looked more aggressive than I intended lol

[blazing wasp]

never thought of it as aggressive

u good

[jagged badge]

Kratos voice Read it boy

[blazing wasp]

in due time

[ember storm]

[eager trout]

Wait, his accent is Greek?

[eager trout]

He has an accent?

[trim grotto]

Literally every person ever has an accent.

[trim grotto]

Russian.

[eager trout]

Ah

[eager trout]

Ok, better question.
Cayde's accent isn't American? He doesn't sound like he has an accent of a language other than English.

[trim grotto]

I'm not particularly good at placing accents. Seems Uke knows more about this one.

[ember storm]

It’s basically just the va’s natural voice and he’s Canadian, so

Very slight influence

[astral citrus]

just beat the campaign, so gambit saved the solar system or did i misunderstand

[slow berry]

gambit gave us the opportunity to save the solar system

according to allison if you specifically played more gambit, we would've prevented all this :(

why'd you let us down?

[dim minnow]

that's not how that works

[zenith bison]

Oh ok 👍

[slow berry]

knowing you're in a game doesn't make you powerful

[zenith bison]

Never mind then

[dim minnow]

Guardians themselves are rather antiithetical to powerscaling

according to Ikora, all Guardians are the same in terms of power since the power the Light gives us is "unlimited"

the only difference is what each guardian has learned and trained

and Ahamakra, despite being reality warping, are very much killable

case-in-point, the Great Hunt

their strength mainly lies in their decietful natures

[hard sigil]

specifically a guardian's strength comes down to how much their train, and a certain degree of natural aptitude. Ikora herself is said to be about a 1 in 2.5 million talent, but considering the immortality, there's no upper limit for ANY guardian

[slow berry]

so do we think 0 is the lord of every nothing

[hard sigil]

0 is a hypothetical member

if the asteroid belt got pulled together into a single body it would have enough mass to gain a gravity well

"mourns what could have been"

[dim minnow]

it's possible that it's VI

[hard sigil]

I don't think it's any of the nine personally

[jagged badge]

It’s supposed to be Russian

Not my place to say if it’s a good Russian accent on the VA’s part though

[orchid folio]

There's a YouTuber who did a comparison between lore accurate guardians lore accurate space marines

[hard sigil]

the issue is that paracausality doesn't work with scaling because it fundamentally doesn't follow rules

and power scaling itself is just. not very fun

it's just "my dad can beat up your dad"

[orchid folio]

Precisely, Guardians won out, even in instances where chaos god's came into play

We can throw black hole grenades and fire sun plasmas

[dim minnow]

there's also cases where Guardians like Wei Ning can punch a mountain so hard it shuddered (albeit microscopically, but even then)

[hard sigil]

or ana, who's golden gun left holes in the terrain that are still burning

[dim minnow]

Saint-14 vs Doom Slayer

[dim minnow]

also firing two golden gun shot that traveled for light years while her Ghost was overcharging her with Light

[hard sigil]

doom slayer canonically scales to whatever he's fighting so it would probably be an eternal battle

doom eternal one may say

[dim minnow]

all Saint has to do is kill DS

DS has to first find out how Saint's rezzing works, then find a way to catch his Ghost, then kill him if he is still alive

[frigid sparrow]

I think the main thing is just how the whole "Lord of Every Nothing" exists, we haven't seen or heard from it ourselves, but it does seem to be something that exists... Which is an issue for the nine, because unless it's communicating to the taken from the 4th dimension, it existing can't be possible. Plus, we see VI talk amongst the other nine through Orin/Lodi, and haven't noticed any particular shift in their dynamic otherwise

Although the way the haul posed against the singularity looking much like those taken eyes DID look very sus and I'm curious what bungie was thinking with that

[hard sigil]

yeah I noticed that doing sieve

the haul REALLY looks like an eye up close

[frigid sparrow]

Okay fuck nevermind disregard literally everything I said I did not reach the lore book

[Saturn, reflected in Ascension, drinks from Taken wills and Dreaded offerings.]
Like wow okay not really leaving room for interpretation huh

[dim minnow]

it would be really funny if VI wasn't the Lord of Every Nothing

like the Lord of Every Nothing is watching VI steal Taken from him like that one video where the guy vaccums some guy's soda out from his cup

[frigid sparrow]

"wait, it wasn't you-?"
"BUDDY WHAT DO YOU THINK I CAN NOT LIVE OUT THERE DID YOU NOT REMEMBER III"

[dim minnow]

well, the tentacles and eyes don't need to be VI itself

[orchid folio]

[hard sigil]

I think the thing with VI is that they're a practitioner of Sword Logic because of the dreadnaughts influence, not the Lord itself though

the nine's cognition is formed by the life in the system, and we know from Deep and Heresy that Akka is still "alive", as Ahsa can hear it psychically screaming through the ascendant plane. so it could be it's become an influence on VI

[dim minnow]

honestly, out of the Outer Orbits, VI seemed like the most aggressive

[hard sigil]

oh definitely

[sick yew]

In which direction do you count the Nine again

Is I closest to the sun

Or is there no order to them

[hard sigil]

goes out from the sun

and the sun itself is IX

[sick yew]

Ah so its backwards from the Sun

[hard sigil]

mercury is I

[sick yew]

Wait

So its IX then I then II and so on

[hard sigil]

technically the order from the middle of the system out is IX, I, II, III, IV, 0 (not an actual member), V, VI, VII, VIII

the asteroid belt is 0, which has the potential to be a member if it were combined into a celestial body

[sick yew]

Wild shit

[hard sigil]

I do wonder what VI means by
THE WEIGHT OF MY PRISON IS KNOWN TO NO OTHER BOUND IN THE SHADOW OF MASS- EVEN THE FIERY POMP OF SELF IMPORT MY FREEDOM IS DUE

which I assume to be IX

the descriptive paragraphs before and after both talk about the dreadnaught, which supports my idea that it's having some kind of effect on it

'nourished by the oldest of sapient wills' also seems to mean that it's "eating" the thoughts of Akka

THIS I HAVE LEARNT FROM THAT WHICH GIVES RISE TO ITSELF
The sword logic?

it's also the only entry to talk about Ascendance. like an Ascendant hive?

an ascendant orbit. VI plans to develop a throne world as a way to subvert the dependence?

I think I'm onto something

[orchid folio]

"The Lord of Every Nothing" is a bit of a mouthful. Let's call them Trevor

[hard sigil]

VIII's plan feels easier to decipher because of how simply they talk

altered reality = freedom achieved ... the gardener = unending sapient nourishment
use the traveller, a gravity well that can be orbited that is also sentient and capable of leaving the system

VII doesn't seem to be talking about a plan, they just warn us the Inners are lying about their kindness towards us

[A shiver runs along your cortex as Sol illuminates from eight other points, like cerebral flares howling fresh existence into an empty sky, heralding the self-replicating rock and membrane amalgam that once and forever would sustain their captured orbits.]
this is an interesting paragraph though

[blazing wasp]

Len

[hard sigil]

rock and membrane could be many things. the traveller? the vex?

heralding would imply it's not in the system yet but the Nine's sense of time can't be trusted

anyway that concludes my ramble and investigation on the possible plans the Outers have for escaping their dependence/imprisonment on life in Sol

[warm mason]

Can someone briefly summarize what happened between Final Shape and Edge of Fate?

I got and played through Final Shape, but didn't really touch the seasons all that much

[sick yew]

Okay so we kill the Witness and in that wake some artifacts made with the Witnesses memories and fused with the light escape the pale heart

These Echoes in their paracausal nature are very powerful artifacts

the first one landed on Nessus where one of the numerous simulated copies of Maya Sundaresh in the Vex network get a hold of it and become 'The Conductor'

it is the Echo of Control that gives her the ability to essentially take control of others (including guardians but thats way harder)

We work together with Failsafe to try and stop her, fighting through a new section of Vex that became individuals and disconnected from the main collective

Also Saint-14 has an identity crisis

[hard sigil]

(I'd like to note that it's not clear if the conductor is a copy of Maya or is THE Maya, who got into the vexnet at a later date, post collapse using the veil, and assumed the identity of one of her copies to infiltrate their society)

[sick yew]

Meanwhile Maya tries to dig through the various copies of Chioma Essy (her wife) to find the original one but she gets so delusional she ends up killing that one thinking it was just another copy

We end up pushing Maya back in the season finale

Episode 2
We help Crow to capture Eramis on Europa but good old Fikrul who now has the Echo of uuuuuh I genuinely dont remember shows up, crashes a Ketch into the helm and then bails again

[hard sigil]

the Echo of Riis

[slim girder]

It is the original. Because the copies wouldn't have memories of travelling to neomuna and discovering the veil. Plus her title "the conductor" is the same place the original chioma found her dead body in. And that was the original chioma maya found with fear behind her eyes

[warm mason]

Like the Eliksni (sorry if I misspelt) planet Riis?

[sick yew]

We spend the Episode trying to stop Fikrul together with Eidu mainly who is also hard at work trying to find a cure for the corruption of Nezarec that has taken a hold in Mithrax aka her father

[hard sigil]

also the "Is a facsimile it's archetype?" line wouldn't make sense if she was a copy

[hard sigil]

yes

it's the witnesses memory of the Whirlwind (the Collapse equivalent for the Eliksni)

[sick yew]

Fikrul also resurrects Skolas (yeah remember that guy) but in the end we kill Fikrul and the Echo chooses Eramis who promptly bails the fuck out of Sol to reclaim Riis and hopefully rebuild it with her people

Also Mithrax gets cured

[warm mason]

Skolas the nanomachine guy?

[slim girder]

Exactly. The original chioma that maya found even said "you're not her anymore" that was the original the new maya killed. So chioma is actually dead now and only her copies remain.

[sick yew]

No thats Taniks

[hard sigil]

the Echo of Riis isn't as much of a universal threat as the Echo of Control, as it only has control over Ether, but it is a threat to the entire species of the Eliksni

[sick yew]

Skolas was an eliksni leader from the D1 days

He united a shit load of them and like fought against the Awoken and stuff

[hard sigil]

Skolas was the Kell of the House of Wolves

[warm mason]

Ohhhhhh I 'member now ok

[sick yew]

Episode 3
Strange new Taken are popping up all around Sol, Drifter and Eris head to the Dreadnaught to investigate but Eris gets killed
We continue to investigate the Dreadnaught and end up finding the Echo of the Navigator in which a memory of a younger Oryx lives (basically the Echo thinks its Oryx pretty much)
With this huge revelation both Hive sisters Savathun and Xivu Arath rush into the picture to try and reclaim their 'brother'

[warm mason]

Oh yeah I breifly went back to playing for a bit with this one

[sick yew]

The Echo (ill start referring to it as Oryx from now on) upon learning that we are his killer is actually chill as fuck with that cause bla bla sword logic
In a shocking (not so shocking) twist Eris is alive too and now hangs out in her throne world, together with Drifter we manage to create a link enabeling us to travel there

Eris plans to capture Oryx to prevent the other Hive sisters from using the Echos power, meanwhile Oryx is slowly starting to have an identity crisis because both of his sisters have fallen to heresy by hive rules
Xivu went into hiding after Eris cut her off from her throne world back in a prior season (making Xivu mortal) and well Savathun is literally undying now with the light I dont think I need to explain how that is considered heretical in a religion focused upon survival of the fittest and death to the weak

Story progresses, we manage to snatch Oryx but then he escapes but while trying to flee the dreadnaught seeing his sisters (and us) fight over him realizes that this all kinda really fucking sucks, finding out that the actual Oryx was arguably a heretic aswell didnt help either and he decides the best way to go foward is to fucking die, so he asks us to kill him

Savathun is very much not happy with us and after a massive crashout swears that the nice time is over and shes back on the villain menu

Oh also Eris and Drifter are dating now

Thats like pretty much it, ig there was also the chess community event which served as a setup for Edge of Fate

[warm mason]

Alright I'm following

[sick yew]

I glossed over some of the lesser crucial details naturally but thats I believe what you mainly need to know

[hard sigil]

the main point of heresy is to establish Eris having a throne world, and the all three hive gods as heretics to their own logic

[sick yew]

Pretty much

[sick yew]

Glad to hear
Any questions?

This will be relevant for the exam next week

[hard sigil]

Oryx loved his progeny and "came back to life", Xivu wanted to preserve Oryx, and Savathûn literally escaped the sword logic

[warm mason]

Why is the nine all of a sudden involved?

[sick yew]

Did you play edge of fate yet

Important question

[hard sigil]

start of a new saga

it's just "and then this happened"

the episodes are kind of an epilogue to Light and Dark and were used to close up loose ends and set up future events

[sick yew]

Yup

[hard sigil]

a là the conductor, Eramis leaving, Savathûn not liking us again

[sick yew]

Eris and Drifter kissing

The most crucial part of the whole plot

[warm mason]

No I am still on the first mission

[sick yew]

Then I will refrain from answering

[warm mason]

Absolute Cinema

[sick yew]

Youll know why they get relevant again

[warm mason]

k

[sick yew]

But in non spoiler terms
The Nine have been losely relevant every now and again for a while

[hard sigil]

you think Eris is gonna make him dye his hair

[sick yew]

||Cause hes old now?||

[hard sigil]

yeah

[sick yew]

Lmfao

Would be funny

[slim girder]

Drifter would do anything eris tells him.

Feel like he's secretly the sub type

[hard sigil]

can't blame him for that

[mild junco]

Why do the Vex like triangles so much?

[sick yew]

Triangles are pretty dope

Definitely a top 3 shapes of all time

Pretty sure the Vex just like anything with clear angled lines and the triangle fits that quite well

[peak gyro]

Eramis is the beyond light villain, right?

[sick yew]

Yup

Technically she was also involved with the Devils back in the day, she was the brains behind the Zero Hour mission

But she didnt show up ingame until BL

[hard sigil]

strongest shape geometrically

[sick yew]

In what way

[hard sigil]

idk it's like. a math thing

[sick yew]

Its iirc the simplest shape that you can infinitely stack next to each other without gaps

[hard sigil]

force is evenly distributed across all three sides or something

[sick yew]

Pretty sure a circle is better for that

[hard sigil]

don't think so

[sick yew]

Either im misunderstanding but a triangle is an issue for that cause it has pointy edges meaning its less durable as force likes to occupy such spaces

A circle on the other hand has no such weak point

Thats why tankers or stuff that holds a lot of pressure are cylinders or orbs

Less to no 'weak spot'

[hard sigil]

that's because gas expands in all directions

circles warp when pressure is applied to one point

[sick yew]

You could also make an argument that rendering things is generally done with a shit load of triangles

So that might be why they like em

[hard sigil]

I'm not an engineer so I'm sure I have a very rudimentary understanding

[sick yew]

Same here lmfao

[hard sigil]

but triangle is what shows up when I google strongest shape

[sick yew]

Mhm I see
Relates to construction which the Vex also love

Apply pressure to one corner and the force distributes to the other two evenly cause bla bla symetrical or whatever

Your point was right I simply thought in a different direction like gas and fluid pressure

[hard sigil]

I mean fluid pressure makes sense because radiolaria

[sick yew]

Yeah and thats why they transport that stuff in tubes

As evident by uh anything on Nessus lmfao

[slim girder]

It's like puzzle pieces to them. Triangles, circles, squares, diamonds, etc are all simple and you can make a lot of structures with them.
Efficiency with resources.

[eager trout]

If that's talking about the Nine, it sounds like it's describing humans (and other flesh and bone-based sentient life)

[hard sigil]

could be

[ember storm]

they're like

inanimate

but also not

[river creek]

Why are rivens bones in the black garden at the end of starcrossed?

[hard sigil]

they're Taranis'

Riven's mate

[river creek]

Oh?

Well why is he there?

[hard sigil]

it's his lair

he made it in the black garden

[river creek]

so like

is he before the vex

[hard sigil]

not to my knowledge

[river creek]

or did he just know abt them and not give af

[hard sigil]

I assume he used his paracausality to disguise it from them

[river creek]

oh

do we not know much about him?

[hard sigil]

just stuff from Wish

https://youtu.be/o5Mb_l80Cdg?si=NRPDOL91ghcZspZ6

[river creek]

thats odd considering he was the only other sentient being to live in the black garden that wasn't a vex

[hard sigil]

he was one of the only kind hearted Ahamkara

actively starved himself in order to grant wishes that were accurate as possible

and sacrificed himself to ensure the safety of his children

[river creek]

couldn't he have just gotten random mf's to wish for very simple things, and twist them in very minor ways?

[hard sigil]

he could

but he genuinely got enjoyment out of making people happy

even if it meant he would get little to no sustenance

[river creek]

so how did he not starve to death?

[hard sigil]

that's where the "as possible" but comes in

[river creek]

like

[hard sigil]

no wish can ever be completely translated into reality

[river creek]

oh

[hard sigil]

there's always a slight difference between the desire and the outcome, even if it's unintentional

so he subsisted on essentially crumbs

[river creek]

so they don't get sustenance from making wishes bad, they get sustenance from making them inaccurate?

[hard sigil]

they feed on the difference between what was wanted and what came to be

usually they intentionally misinterpret the wording or twist the meaning of the wish to maximise that difference

[river creek]

oh

[hard sigil]

that's what made him special

is that he would forgo that to try to respect the intention of the wish

[sick yew]

I am PRAYING that they do some kind of loretab where we see some of those

id love to know what insults the Vex come up with

[slow berry]

@hard sigil @sick yew super simple explanation off the top of my head on triangles: imagine a rectangle or any shape with fixed sizes, you can squish or move the sides of the shape in a way that their lengths are maintained but their angles relative to eachother are not, so if you applied force to it it'd be possible to distort the shape of whatever you built with them. with triangles, the only way to do this would be to somehow alter the lengths of the sides, as all three sides are connected to eachother, so it's less susceptible to forces that would deform it until the joints fully give out

[sick yew]

They look cool

[slow berry]

i want orin and eris to meet up and chat it up

i think they'd be great oomfs

[slim girder]

They will eventually. Since Orins plans are to return to the city and rebuild a life.
And even drifter wants to "clear the air"

Ikora has also talked about sending her to help retake Chicago. I'm sure Lodi would also like to be a part of that endeavour.

And maybe even ikora herself will be paying close attention since she was also from that place

[slow berry]

What the fuck did you just say about me, you little Light? I'll have you know I graduated top of my Conflux in the Hezen Corrective, and I have over 300 confirmed assimilations.

[slow berry]

god i can't believe we might actually go to chicago after all these years

[slim girder]

The vexs new tactic to beating us? Shattering my self esteem with insults.

[sick yew]

Guardian there is an incoming transmission, it reads "001010 101011 101010 0111010 0001011110110"

[slim girder]

Might be a silly question but if 3 is tied to earth why are they on Kepler? I know the nine are tied to the planets of the solar system but that still doesn't explain why the one who was tied to earth is now on the edge of the system. Unless ofc Maya pulled it from the 4th dimension into Kepler when she killed them and that's how 3 ended up there.

This could also be just like our connection the traveler. We can go wherever we like but we're still tied to the traveler through the light of of our ghosts

[slow berry]

i don't think the nine are anywhere physically

in our existing three-dimensional understanding

my thinking is that maya somehow or other finds out about kepler, which is an untouched golden-age branch off of humanity, gets there, goes "oh that's a lotta dark matter" and pulls III specifically because it's the one that's earth

[dapper moss]

whats the cube on kerrev's back?

[dim minnow]

you know they never did explain that

[hard sigil]

just looks like some kinda pyramid tech

[hollow drum]

was maya controlling koregos

[dapper moss]

koregos is a choral vex, so yea i think so

[slim girder]

Prolly not in that moment but she def made it and gave it an order to digitise the place

[hollow drum]

made it is crazy cause i’m hearing that koregos has vault of glass levels of power

she really a fucking problem

[dapper moss]

i mean

she killed one of the nine

[river creek]

do ahamkara just flat out die when they wish to themselves or does it just take a massive toll on them, and if they are not strong enough they die?

[final geyser]

im sorry did i just hear a reference to Ghost Community Theatre in game

[final geyser]

could be wrong but from what i understand she used the echo to force III to give itself physical form?
still absolutely terrifying, but marginally less scary than her doing it herself / doing it directly with the echo

[river creek]

if thats what she did then she still killed 1 of the nine

[final geyser]

that's fair

[dapper moss]

yeah that's arguably scarier than killing the nine

[final geyser]

yknow thats fair

theres a big difference between killing an extradimensional being yourself vs forcing it to perform an action it knows would kill it
both of which are terrifying

genuinely insane redemption on maya as a villain cuz she really wasn't that that threatening in echoes

[dapper moss]

both of which are seperately terrifying acts that imply a great deal of power

[strong tendon]

Just to remind everyone we have a major villain for every faction again!
Vex - Maya
Scorn - Skolas
Cabal - Yirix
Fallen - Levask (he’s still alive sorta)
Taken - Lord of Every Nothing
Hive - Xivu and Savathun
Dread - yirix again

[frigid sparrow]

this omar saint croix fella seems to be a recurring entity within the arms dealers.. hm

[river creek]

who's lirix, also isnt skolas dead bacause we killed him againg in kells vengeance?

[strong tendon]

Yirix is a psion that leads the psion enclave and some of the dread

And Skolas revives again after you beat him

[river creek]

How?

for both

specifically how tf does yirix know how to take?

[strong tendon]

Take…?

[river creek]

He has taken under his command

[strong tendon]

They don’t need to know how to take the lead the dread

[river creek]

then why are the dread listening to him?

[strong tendon]

Because they have no leader after the witness died. They splintered off into other factions

[river creek]

oh

so how is skolas alive?

[frigid sparrow]

Yirix is basically chain of command leadership. She was the only remaining form of leadership after Calus' death, so she's defacto leader of the cabal. However, Otzot is also still commanding cabal as well. They jave the dread since the shadow legion were closely woven with the witness, and had the easiest access to the dread forces. Skolas is a revenant scorn, and cannot truly die unless the totem is destroyed. In kell's vengeance, his totem is unbreakable

[strong tendon]

And also for Skolas, he is essentially immortal like fikrul was before we made that scorn killing potion thing because of dark ether

Dark ether allows you to revive after you’ve died. It’s basically immortality

[river creek]

oh

[frigid sparrow]

for Skolas it' specifically because of him being a revenant. You can't raise yourself out of death, with fukrul being the obvious exception

sieve over. anyways, nevermind god damn it give me a moment to explain the shadow legion

[hard sigil]

she pulled it out into the third dimension. we don't know what III is made of, I don't think the rotting corpse of an eldritch god is a good thing to have in the solar system. We don't know if it's body is like radioactive in ways we don't even know about yet or something. it's likely that it's whatever STRANGE MATTER is

[slow berry]

i wonder if the similarity in name to Crux/Lomar is purely a coincidence

[hard sigil]

Omar is a hidden agent

he's just been the lead in investing arms dealings

[frigid sparrow]

okay. Anyways, Yirix's main "appearance" was back in season of the Risen, during the Vox Obscura mission. However, in season of the Chosen, it's also mentioned that she's part of the Psion Conclave. She's the one broadcasting psionic messages in the mission that we need to take down, which we do. We then know she's in command of the Shadow Legion since the Dread duo in the Encore mission are labeled as "Pledged to Yirix."
Otzot, on the other hand, is one of the conspirators of the Midnight Coup. She was once loyal to Calus, but shredded her loyalty after his proclamation that he'd set the Psions free in the empire. Now, the reason she did this despite being a psion herself, is because she was already free. We know Otzot at the "Freeborn Psion." Since the Midnight Coup went as planned and Calus was ousted, the Psions remained enslaved to the empire, while Otzot remained in the shadows. She's referenced in the Insight Terminus, both the normal version and in the Final Shape version, where she's still trying to get access into the Vex network through Kargen (the boss), and that Kargen and the red legion there were clones from the Shadow Legion's cloning facility. As such, we know that both Yirix and Otzot are the primary leaders of the Shadow Legion, but not much else since bungie just hasn't done anything with them yet

[frigid sparrow]

If he's a hidden then why do I know his name? Is he stupid?

[hard sigil]

the entire organisation is compromised

the leader has a SHADER named for them

[frigid sparrow]

wonder what's gonna happen to that one racist arms dealer guy in the last city

[hard sigil]

it does set up an interesting potential plot line for a new government in the city

he talks like he's part of a group

[frigid sparrow]

bungie elaborate on lysandre fucking once:

[hard sigil]

bu bu but skimmers!!!

[frigid sparrow]

bro hasn't moved on since the endless night 🥀

damn it I haven't moved on from the endless night those lore tabs still got me pissed off to this day

[final geyser]

also im really confused, isn't kepler outside of Sol?

[hard sigil]

it's on the edge

[final geyser]

huh ok

i thought it was way beyond

[sick yew]

The trailer kinda makes it seem that way
But we're still in Sol

[hard sigil]

it's in the Oort cloud

which is beyond the Heliopause

but still within the gravity of the sun

[frigid sparrow]

Erm but savathun says our destiny lies beyond the solar system so she's always cool and awesome and 🤓

[slow berry]

two truths two lies or whatever

[slim girder]

I find it funny how in fiction and non fiction everyone bullies pluto.

[little gorge]

that's the only week that is 100% definitively solved

at least assuming the premise is correct and it is 2 truths 2 lies

wait nvm there are 3 lies in that one

osiris is dead (lie)
savathun is dead (lie unless we consider unreszed guardians "dead")
the witness created the darkness (lie)
your destiny lies beyond the solar system (true?)

they might all be 3 lies and a truth tbh

the enigma is one key to defeating the witness (lie)
the final shape is nothing (lie)
the last city is not the last city (truth)
the witness will build its army on mars (lie)

[sick yew]

Technically the finale shape is nothing

Nothing happens anymore

Everything frozen eternally

[orchid folio]

We really need teave our system but Bungie doesn't want to make any more new enemies

[sick yew]

Didnt they like just make new last expansion

And some new subtypes in this expansion

[slim girder]

You know we just got the dread right?

[slim girder]

I wonder if this aircraft carrier has any significance. Is it from the golden age or just like Lodi was it brought forward in time?

Saw it heaps on the marketing I thought it'd be something special.

[sick yew]

It does look cool

Its out of place and creates interest
Its possible it's just there to look cool ingame and in promo shit

Or we might get go there which would be dope but I kinda doubt that

Would be a baller dungeon location that's for sure

[slim girder]

Yeah. Prolly just a set piece but I still do wonder if there's a story behind it. Like why would the nine want to drop an aircraft carrier of all things on some random planet from across time?

I know they like trains a lot but an aircraft carrier is quite the escalation from a train lol

[sick yew]

II was like
T.his - lo.ok-s dop.e as hel.l.--. w-at.chs th.is

And some random aircraft carrier in the 70s randomly vanishes

[slim girder]

Hopefully it was docked or the crew would have been in for an awful landing.

Wouldn't be surprised to find some skeletons in there.

[sick yew]

High chance they just got vaporized in the transition

I doubt the Nine gave much care when transporting that thing through time

[sick yew]

Also i dont remember which nine talks how i just wanted to make a visual joke

[slim girder]

You think the nine watched final destination? Who knows how many deaths they might have had a part in.

[sick yew]

Lmfao

[slim girder]

Pretty crazy way to go for nella having a train spawn out of nowhere

[sick yew]

They wanted to make a statement about running red lights

[sick yew]

But it fits the whole "we really dont fucking care" nature
The nine dont really concern themselves with staying covert or practicality cause its likely all the same for them

A train was likely the next best thing but had it been the opportunity they would also just have scooped the empire state building and dropped that on Nella

[cloud crag]

I mean for god sake the nine killed JFK so subtly has gone out the window

[sick yew]

Valid argument
They do shit covertly likely if its actually of importance

But when that isn't necessary for their plans they just dont care

[cloud crag]

Ahh yes assassinating a world leader with graviton lance convertly

[sick yew]

No one ever knew it was them

And yes what they did was more subtle than a train spawning outta nowhere

[cloud crag]

True

Although I really want someone to compile all the train throwing scenes with I like trains

[sick yew]

Lmfao

[orchid folio]

eh, sure, i guess

I enjoyed EoF very mucj, but starting a new saga by fighting Vex and Fallen is ehh...

[orchid folio]

we've been seeign the aircraft carrier for a year now, I too thought there was more to it.

[slim girder]

Things will change. This was just the beginning but based on lore and interviews the big climax is going to start creeping in as time goes on.

"Creeping dread" as one of the bungie narrative devs Allison put it.

[ember storm]

thing will WHAT

[orchid folio]

I have faith in Allison; she is based.

I think they are banking on Renegades to get eyes on them and do interesting things. Salvatori coming back for it is a big deal

[sick yew]

(Salvatori still worked on EoF's soundtrack btw)

Seems he never really went out properly lmfao

[orchid folio]

what about Skye Lewin?

[sick yew]

Uuuh lemme check

[sick yew]

Is indeed also credited

[orchid folio]

what a strange company

i guess they could be working contractually instead of being full time

[sick yew]

Thats my guess

The only other option is that they already did the soundtrack pre layoff but I find that hard to believe even when considering how far ahead bungie operates

[slow berry]

someone recently put up some posts about working with salvatori in the studio

[sick yew]

And?

[orchid folio]

I'm here for it

[sick yew]

Nope

Theres some terms in there that are a nono here

[slow berry]

did i miss a message

[sick yew]

You did

Dw about it

[orchid folio]

lol, ok

[slow berry]

aight just making sure it wasn't about my message

[sick yew]

rule 3 if you need a ref

[orchid folio]

no biggie, rules are rules

[slow berry]

do you reckon III was like

[sick yew]

Thank you for understanding

[slow berry]

could we maybe not be so destructive in our work

and thats why for kennedy instead of train it was a black hole

[jagged badge]

Considering good ol’ Marty is credited, I’d assume Salvatori’s credit is more to do with his work on the original versions of the remixed tracks than direct involvement with this OST

[orchid folio]

Could be that

[fresh zephyr]

Question from someone who's been not playing D2 for a bit.. Has the Nine storyline taken over the Winnower stuff? I thought that was still unanswered or did I miss something? I have the lore books but need to catch up on them and the last I saw it mentioned was the SE raid

[dim minnow]

Winnower has always been in the background

[fresh zephyr]

Ah okay, so kinda the same as it was before? I wasn't sure if I missed something

[dim minnow]

right now, the focus is on the Nine

[dim minnow]

there is some good Winnower stuff in the most recent Grimoire Anthology book

[fresh zephyr]

Awesome! I have it just working my way through 🙂

I am interested in how the Nine are talking and how the subtitles are laid out

[ember storm]

We’re just taking a good break from stuff directly tied to light and dark now

[fresh zephyr]

I think thats best, something fresh

[sick yew]

Hes credited on the new works aswell tho

[jagged badge]

He’s back for Renegades and for future stuff sure

But the credits on Edge of Fate doesn’t mean they worked on Edge of Fate, because its OST has multiple directly remixed tracks

Hence why people like Martin O’Donnell and Skye Lewin are credited

[river surge]

The Winnower is chill, he is in the background prob watching our guardian growing stronger

I mean we are taking a break from light and dark, The Traveler is pretty much safe, The Winnower is chill and yeah

Also im still confused based on the dimension part, like we are 3D, The Nine are 4D or even higher and beyond that could there be beings even higher in dimension or?

[lofty cape]

Am I going crazy or did Ikora have a pontiac?

Idk where I saw it

[hidden pebble]

eof cutscene?

[lofty cape]

yeah

like someone identified the exact car

[worldly raptor]

Haven’t played since July 16th 2024 looking for someone to update me on everything since then and help me w the campaign

[blazing wasp]

as for the latter part, try LFG, i take it you didnt get to play very much if you're asking for that here?

here

;lfg

[candid inlet]

Looking for more players?
Check out #looking-for-group for links to our LFG channels, and further resources including:

• Fireteam Finder (in-game LFG, available in the Roster tab or when launching an activity)
• Destiny 2 LFG Discord
• Final Shape LFG Discord (Requires TFS DLC)
• D2Checkpoint
• Bungie Fireteam Search
• Reddit's r/Fireteam
• Reddit's r/DestinySherpa

[thorn wind]

what was Zavala's element subclass before TFS? Was it always Stasis?

[hard sigil]

all guardians can use all subclasses but I believe he was mainly a Striker (arc). he was originally opposed to the use of stasis, and as such never learnt it himself, until he lost Targe

[thorn wind]

so is the Guardian the only person that can use Dark while still having a ghost? or is that not how it works

[hard sigil]

not how it works

anyone can use darkness

guardian or not

[thorn wind]

but you can only use light with a ghost?

[hard sigil]

correct

[thorn wind]

that makes sense

[hard sigil]

light comes from the traveller, dark comes from within

(but can be amplified with outside influence)

[sick yew]

Think of your ghost like a internet router

The ghost enables the connection between you and the travelers light

[meager coral]

Drifter also uses stasis, just as an example of other people with a ghost using it, and Ikora presumably knows how since she teaches Zavala

[jagged badge]

Ikora also knows Strand

[slim girder]

Drifter, eris and Elsie have gone by the "dark vanguard"

[jagged badge]

Have they?

My understanding was that was something the fandom referred to them as

[hard sigil]

it is

[slim girder]

Yes. Sry I should have clarified it was more a name given them by the community

[ember storm]

literally all it was, was back in BL Elsie mentioned that the vanguard only guided guardians through their use of light, so she decided to do the same for stasis

[worldly raptor]

does anyone have a really good titan build that they can share w me for edge of fate please dm me

[trim grotto]

This is a lore channel, friend.

You're in the wrong place.

[ember storm]

actually i think titans are naturally well-built

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-fortnite-griddy-zavala-destiny-gif-26547077

[sick yew]

Agreed

[thorn wind]

is the TFS cutscene where ||the ghost dies|| the first scene where the Guardian talks?

[sick yew]

Nah

Our guardian talked plenty in D1 too iirc

And does every now and again in pretty much every campaign

[thorn wind]

ig I just never noticed it until now

[ember storm]

guardian talks in every major dlc

[hard sigil]

except EoF for some reason

[ember storm]

they just stopped in D2 Y1

[ember storm]

felt awkward about workplace banter

[sick yew]

Do they talk in EoF

[ember storm]

i dont have the dlc

[sick yew]

Somehow I just cant recall an instance lmao

[hard sigil]

they don't

Lodi even makes a joke about it

[sick yew]

That I recall but idk if they might have said anything lateron

But yeah the most the guardian talked is either Shadowkeep when the Witness appears in the shape or our guardian
Or Final Shape cause they do say something every now and again there

[ember storm]

the longest string of words we had was definitely either the LF rallying cutscene or us pleading with the traveler in excision

[ember storm]

shadowkeep is a total of nine words

forsaken was also

[sick yew]

Final Shape?

[ember storm]

well i don't remmeber off the top of my head, let me type it out

"cayde how long has it been" at the start

then in excision there's "no, ghost; please bring him back, he's just a ghost, you raised an army, you can bring back one ghost; cayde"

[sick yew]

Guess that is more then

[ember storm]

then in LF it's all

"It's time we figure it out; Caiatl we'll need your troops; Nimbus charge up as many of the remaining turrets as you can while Osiris helps me to untangle this strand"

and i think that's the only line

[stark spindle]

what "extinction" are they talking about in eof?

[jagged badge]

An upcoming one we have to prevent

[stark spindle]

ahh i see

i thought they were talking about the collapse

[sick yew]

Well yk theres a singularity building on Kepler

That shit do be kinda dangerous and stuff

[slim girder]

So far we have no clue as to what that extinction level event will look like. I don't think it could be something like the final shape where everything is calcified. My money is on some kind of astrological disaster or something like that. Maybe another black hole or the threat of something going supernova.

[ember storm]

pretty sure it would just be plain old death

lots and lots of death

bad thing

[slim girder]

Maybe something like in assassins creed where the sun lets out a solar flare strong enough to set earth on fire.

[dim minnow]

I have two theories.
One is a time paradox type of disaster that is caused when the Nine send something backwards in time.

The other is when the absolute of ignorance is conquered

[slow berry]

I'm thinking its Maya does something extremely stupid in an attempt to bring back the Golden Age, Humanity be damned

[little gorge]

chioma in the raid did say she's not taking no as an answer again

honestly bungie could have done a way better job showing how powerful maya's echo is

controlling us saint and ikora is a big feat but compressing a 4 dimensional being larger than a planet into 3 dimensions is insane

[slow berry]

i choose to believe it was maya still getting used to it

i dont think we would've gotten out of the ending of echoes at this point

[little gorge]

well we (and mostly saint in this case) are paracausal and the nine aren't

[frigid sparrow]

in encore it was shown that her controlling cabal is a recent power boost

[little gorge]

anyways if all the echoes can just do that stuff we should not have killed the echo of the navigator so easily

[sick yew]

Was that really her controlling them?
I thought they were just there to scavenge and shit

[frigid sparrow]

they have the collars

[sick yew]

Damn, never noticed

[frigid sparrow]

after the boss fight

during the lab section and the final boss

Osiris: Sundaresh has brought Cabal under the Echo’s power. Her mastery is growing. This will be our only chance to end the threat and secure the Echo.

it's during the week 3 dialogue when portal uses week 1's

[slow berry]

The Echo of the Navigator literally let itself be killed right

[frigid sparrow]

yeah

[slow berry]

Like we had to fight people trying to stop us but it was just like fucking end me

[frigid sparrow]

and it was still ultimately done with willbreaker

[slim girder]

Not exactly. It wasn't pleased to die but understood that that is the way of the sword. Plus at the time we were trying to stop that echo from leaving to fundament. Not to mention the taken power also being too unstable we made the choice to destroy instead of capture

[dim minnow]

kinda, it wanted us to end it, but since it wasn't bitchmade, it refused to go down without a fight

[orchid folio]

I do wish our guardian spoke in EoF - Especially in the cutscenes, its always so awkward

[frigid sparrow]

person of few words, eh?

[soft copper]

Okay lore nerds

I have a question

What is this at the end of EoF?

[hard sigil]

that is III's corpse

[soft copper]

III is a massive meatball??

I thought they all looked like the emissary

[hard sigil]

the emissary is an awoken

[soft copper]

So it’s different races?

In this example III would be whatever race the giant space meatball is

[hard sigil]

no. the Nine are made of dark matter

Maya pulled III out of the fourth dimension, and it manifested as.. that

but we can't be sure that's what they actually look like

[soft copper]

So the nine are spiritual beings rather than physical ?

[hard sigil]

it's like pulling a deep sea creature onto the surface but in a much more metaphysical sense

[soft copper]

Oh I see

[hard sigil]

the nine aren't meant to have physical forms

but everything in the third dimension must have matter

so that's what came out

[soft copper]

So

Our reality is the nines playground

Basically

In a nutshell or something

[hard sigil]

kind of

they're very much eldritch gods

but they are reliant on life in the system

and they're tethered to it

III dying is a big deal because the Inners are the ones on our "side", I-IV and IX, and III was our biggest supporter

the Outers (V-VIII) goal is to achieve independence from the system and the life therein, but they each seem to have different plans on how to make that happen

but now with four on each side, their votes on what to do is tied. hence why Lodi isn't technically the new Emissary

[ember storm]

The emissary is a normal person meant to be their means of communicating with us when they otherwise can’t

[orchid folio]

we as humans are 3 Dimensinal beings, we can not exist in a 2 Dimensional plane like a painting

its why III died

the IX are a 4-dimensional being, it can not exist in a 3-Dimensional plane

[ember storm]

Yeah I watched that movie in math class

[blazing wasp]

Cant believe Maya Sundaresh Luigi's Mansion'd III

[little gorge]

Luigi's Mansion 3 circled with red arrows pointing to it

[river surge]

Is it true that in Renegades we will have Cabal with paracausal weapons?

[sick yew]

Where did you hear that from

Officially we dont even know which faction we'll be facing in Renegades

[river surge]

Bulletin posted a post about new lore book with encrypted messages suggesting that its gonna about cabal and stuff now idk

Thats why I asked

[sick yew]

Can you link said tweet?

[river surge]

https://x.com/destinybulletn/status/1949561321873371186?s=46

Destiny Bulletin (@DestinyBulletn)

🚨New Destiny 2 lore book might have revealed first details about the Star Wars-inspired Renegades expansion: Story, characters, destination & more - https://t.co/7T17SdrYYk

X · Jul 27, 2025, 8:03 PM

[sick yew]

No clue which lorebook thats supposed to be ngl

[river surge]

Thats why I asked in the first place, since I got really excited

Now if u think about it, it may actually be real since well technically Mars is the only location we can expect Renegades to happend

And Cabal were already on Mars so it might be real

[sick yew]

Could also have been earth

[river surge]

I think Mars fits it better

It gives Tatooine vibes

[sick yew]

So would....yk a desert on earth

[river surge]

Yeah

And btw Cabal seems Empire based

Ngl

So they would fit perfectly

Im actually looking forward for Renegades

[orchid folio]

would be nice to get a new location, but I doubt it

the community would crash out if we're going to an old location

not that it needs an excuse

[river surge]

I mean

From what I have heard

There are datapads telling us that

That well

Its gonna be about Cabal and Mars

[orchid folio]

oh boy...

[river surge]

Now again idk if its true or not, I just saw everyone jump about that new lore book

But it might be true tho

I mean its not a bad idea for Mars but if they execute it perfectly I dont have a problem

[orchid folio]

I wouldnt be opposed to bringing back D1 mars

[ember storm]

It’s specifically just going to be criminal underworld with cabal rebels, not the empire

Imperial cabal are our allies

[dim minnow]

I have a theory that the story itself could be about the Outer Orbits replacing Maya with someone else so they can use the Echo of Command for themselves

An idea I had was that they could be getting their replacement from the past like Lodi

[frigid sparrow]

of note, we are getting a new destination. whether it means we're getting revamped mars or something new entirely is unsure, but

also of note, the lore books and the data logs are one in the same, I'm reading through As Without right now and Distortions is the week 1 logs

I dunno if I'm missing any logs right now (I shouldn't) but the recent cabal stuff doesn't have enough to compile into a third lore book

[frigid sparrow]

Regarding the Cabal, we know a few things:

1. In Witch Queen, more specifically season of the Risen, we see Cabal in The Arrival mission. These are specifically Caiatl's Cabal, and we presumably stop her future ambitions regarding taking Mars. However,
2. Yirix and Otzot are still both in control of the remaining Shadow Legion. Yirix is specifically an important figure, since we find out about her upon returning to Mars. While it's presumed that the location in Vox Obscura is a sort of quickly-put-together thing and we can't determine how wide-spread Calus' loyalists (and those susceptible to the propaganda campaign) were on Mars, it's implied that repeat playthroughs are canon and that we'd eventually go back and destroy the campaign again once they get back up, implying they have enough consistent forces on the planet to potentially even expand
3. in the data logs, the Cabal present are of a new faction. I don't think this means Bungie's abandoning Yirix/Otzot (hopefully), which either means they abandoned the Shadow Legion moniker and are "rebranded," either as a Psionic Cabal or as some kinda "arms dealer" Cabal. Since they're in the know about dark matter tech and they're specifically wanting to make weapons out of it, either one is really possible, but we could also be going against a "pirate" group unaffiliated with the shadow legion since we're also meant to be dealing with a Dredgen who could just be hiring this Cabal legion. Then again, the SL in Revenant were also sorta "mercenaries" so eh

[hard sigil]

also important that they only stole weapons related to the darkness from Xûr

(and his flight logs)

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah, they're specifically aware of Eternity now

We're gonna get the Drifter in the opening cutscene opening a door with 6 cabal aiming malfeasances at him

[hard sigil]

why have we got to do that quest if xûr had some in his stock the entire time </3

[frigid sparrow]

Seriously what has Xur been holding out for

Both the recent logs and the SMG lore tab have got me severely questioning the nature of some exotics

Like what the fuck do you mean "original issue two-tailed fox"

That shit came out of an exotic engram

[hard sigil]

I assume it means one from before it's rework

which implies that reworks are diagetic

[frigid sparrow]

Random tower racist doesn't have the catalyst on his two-tailed fox, is he stupid?

Why did he call the eliksni "parasites" when that exotic is affiliated with the hive? Is he stupid?

[slow berry]

They are

There's a lore tab talking about how Shaxx refuses to return Suros Regime and Red Death(?) to their overtuned previous firmwares

Zavala —
A waste of time, as always. I won't confiscate the Red Death engrams, I won't roll back the SUROS Crucible firmware to its "original" (preposterously inflated) state. And I won't conduct any more "forensic inquiries" like this!

[ember storm]

Stasis nerfs were also canon

[frigid sparrow]

as was sunsetting and various examples of weapon model reuse

[dim minnow]

Neomuna weapons canonically being refurbished Moon weapons

[strong tendon]

Really?

[frigid sparrow]

yep, witch queen collectors book

it shifted itself to be less harmful to guardians

[heady gyro]

What kinda personality does Starhorse have, if it has any

[hard sigil]

judging from dares it likes game shows but that's about all we know.

not like it can talk to us

[slow berry]

neigh

[sick yew]

So
Desert Perpetual

What do we actually know about the Vex we came across there

Specifically good ol Koregos

[hard sigil]

They're Choral vex, sent by Maya. Koregos is actually a Greek word, Choregos, which were wealthy citizens who would fund the chorus (the theatre) in Athens, but I digress. It seems that they're trying to make use of III's body and the dark matter to leverage the power of the Nine

a back up plan due to Maya either not knowing exactly why (or not caring that) the Nine literally cannot fulfil her goals

[sick yew]

Interesting but not too surprising considering many Vex borrow names from greek and shit
But what about its title?
'the Worldline'

[dim minnow]

I think it's not that they can't, but that they really do not want to

[sick yew]

I am on that side too

Maya calls it a 'rule' they dont wish to break

[hard sigil]

Lodi himself said they can't push things backwards, only forwards

[dim minnow]

The world line (or worldline) of an object is the path that an object traces in 4-dimensional spacetime. It is an important concept of modern physics, and particularly theoretical physics.

[hard sigil]

but yeah there's room for what "can't" actually entails

[sick yew]

I find it more plausible that this is just a lie from the Nine

[sick yew]

That makes hella lot sense actually

[dim minnow]

or maybe the Emissaries don't have the full picture

[hard sigil]

essentially they're trying to figure out how they can use III's corpse to fulfil the plan

[sick yew]

Mhm checks out

[hard sigil]

and they're "inside" III? or the anomaly? because it's unknown space? idk it's the nine they're weird

[dim minnow]

Maya essentially wanted to switch the current Earth with the Golden Age one

her reasoning that we would prevent the Collapse

really shit plan to be honest

[hard sigil]

yeah

[dim minnow]

and good thing she's at the end of her rope

[hard sigil]

it only just kinda "skips" the collapse

[dim minnow]

the rest of the Vex ignore her, she used up a lot of power just to manhandle III, and now her own collective is turning on her

oh, and she also did not succeed in getting what she wanted on Kepler at all

[frigid sparrow]

she is still getting shit done on other planets on a smaller scale, like on neomuna with her heists

[dim minnow]

my personal theory is that the Outer Orbits (who were the ones who brought her to Kepler in the first place) are lining up a replacement for Maya so they can essentially use the Echo of Command for whatever they want

[hard sigil]

isn't there a tab saying that the main vex collective are turning hostile to choral vex

[sick yew]

Wait but the raid doesnt actually happen on III's body no?

You can see it floating in the skybox im pretty sure

[hard sigil]

it's in the skybox of hobgoblin

most of it is in unknown space. hydra is in an Aionian research facility though so

[frigid sparrow]

the nessian schism stuff from the data logs is due to a lack of maya's direct influence on the vex on nessus due to her being out in kepler, she isn't directly controlling them, but her influence in giving them individuality is still there, thus they just aren't "following" her since they have no reason to

[dim minnow]

though she is killing unruly members of her Collective to set an example

[sick yew]

Thats why my guess was that it just happens either on Kepler itself or some part that might have broken off

[dim minnow]

crazy how the planetoid looks spherical when you fly into it, but when you travel to the Singularity, Kepler looks all Gerrymandered

[sick yew]

Yeah I was thinking about that too

Like you just kinda jump off its side in the final mission

But ig a singularity would have some kind of effect gravitational wise

[hard sigil]

found it
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/skimmed-surface

`Deployment issue confirmed. Radiolaria separate: skim layer floating on surface. [These ones] are not [Those ones].

This radiolaria—hobgoblin. That radiolaria—goblin|goblin|harpy|harpy.

Pattern broken. Units report. Vex local networked: 5617900 and dropping. 5300819 and dropping. Hostile check—positive.`

like the collective is noticing that their numbers are dropping

and they have designated it as a hostile force

[sick yew]

Prob the same sorta shit that happend with the Vex over in the black garden whos name I temporarily fogor

[hard sigil]

the Sol Divisive

[sick yew]

Ye those

[frigid sparrow]

Imagining the choral vex doing that dumbfuck detroit become human hand waving stuff to convert normie vex into individuals

[sick yew]

Detroid become human lmao

[hard sigil]

those were still networked in, they were just under a different method of working towards the same goal as the Hezen Collective

[sick yew]

Chicago become individual

[dim minnow]

a method that the rest of the Vex were not cool with though

[sick yew]

Yeah but the rest of the collective got beef with the Divisive

[hard sigil]

fair

[sick yew]

And im pretty sure they split off from the main collective atp

[hard sigil]

it's neat to see they're actually physically separating themselves off into a separate layer though

We are comfortable together. WE ARE: Hobgoblin. We do not split. We do not recombine.
like the "individuality" isn't on a per unit level, it's on an INDIVIDUAL level

[sick yew]

I too, infact, am Hobgoblin

[dim minnow]

it's 2025, we don't go goblin mode anymore