📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

Riven manipulated him

Chimera are just mindless taken abominations that Riven and later Hefnd used as avatars

[hard sigil]

the Chimera is a weird taken glob stuck to a servitor kinda

[ember storm]

Every time Uldren heard “Mara” in the campaign was riven

[slim girder]

The meatball as the community calls it.

[hard sigil]

honestly it may even be Eliksni flesh. or just whatever was around when they're made

[slim girder]

As the name suggests they're a mish mash of different creatures.

Just from appearance they appear to be taken, fallen and scorn.

Body of a servitor, taken tendrils, scorn like twisted flesh

[clear knot]

Is it possible for a mortal to control (small) amounts of taken, if given the power by a more powerful being?

[hard sigil]

anyway yeah they don't call riven the Thousand Voices for nothing. she is especially skilled at impersonation

[hard sigil]

would depend on the situation. we see things like Dread lieutenants controlling detachments of the taken that are under the witnesses will

[slim girder]

No. Only paracausal beings can do that. Mara did mention she was able to command a single taken once so it's possible she could do more in the future with them.
But as of right now it seems this new being hiding and growing in the ascendant plane called the lord of every nothing is what commands them now.

[clear knot]

ohhh okay

[hard sigil]

A god formed out of the desire for a will. A living purpose forged from a lack of one

[slim girder]

Xivu arath also has some command as well I believe but not much and now generally deploys hive troops

[hard sigil]

essentially unless your will is "heavy" enough in the ascendant plane you'd have to channel something else's that is

but that is very difficult in of itself

[clear knot]

So, theoretically, someone allied with Riven could - with her blessing - channel her will through them to control taken?

[slim girder]

Those tentacles, eyes and the dire taken we see are from this new being we discovered.
And it's been described as having the same power as another being called the winnower which is destiny's version of a literal cosmic god

[clear knot]

sorry, just figuring out how to make this plot point in my au make sense

[slim girder]

No. You can't just give someone "permission" to control taken.

[clear knot]

ok

[hard sigil]

it's more like Riven's will needs to align with that person's goal

[clear knot]

Then what's with the taken control in Heresey?

I don't understand what that was

[hard sigil]

The Lord Of Every Nothing

or with us?

[clear knot]

The orb in eris's apartment

[hard sigil]

channeling taken energy is different than controlling taken themselves

[clear knot]

ohhh ok

[slim girder]

That's more us walking the path of resolve as it's called and kinda dipping our toes into taken power but using our own will and powers to control and use it for ourselves

[clear knot]

What about the other path?

[slim girder]

Same idea.

[clear knot]

oh okay

[slim girder]

You just go further into it

[clear knot]

Sorry for asking these questions, I know they probably sound stupid

I'm just trying to keep this story as close to canon-adjacency as possible

[hard sigil]

they're just different methods of channeling the energy

[hard sigil]

and that's what this channel is here for anyway

[clear knot]

Could a guardian be forced into becoming Taken? not controlling them, not dipping their toes in, but someone powerful Taking a guardian?

[hard sigil]

Sloane is partially taken

but staved it off with sheer force of will

[ember storm]

If they have their light they can help retain their will

[hard sigil]

and ahsa's help

[ember storm]

But it can eventually overpower them if they’re not resolute enough

[clear knot]

Sloane... that's the chick in the dreaming city during that one heresey mission?

I never met her before that mission

[hard sigil]

she was the vendor for Titan

the moon not the class

[clear knot]

ohhhh

[hard sigil]

disappeared with it, came back with Season of the Deep

[clear knot]

Explains why I never saw her

[hard sigil]

she's also deputy commander, second in command to Zavala

and has one of the coolest ghosts in the game

Síocháin has a shell equipped with razor blades and actively goes out to kill things

[clear knot]

That's awesome!

[slim girder]

Sloane was able to withstand xivu arath even which quite the feat given she was alone on titan for a very long time before meeting ahsa the "proto wormgod" that lives in the oceans of titan.

She's definitely one of the most resilient titans around

[clear knot]

Wait, so what would happen if Riven is freed? Cause essentially that and the capital G Guardian dying are the two big plot points that separate my AU from the main story instead of just telling the main story from a different pov

[slim girder]

She'd wreak havoc most likely. Ahamkara were hunted down for a reason because their wishes were way too dangerous. If she got out she could make bargains with anyone.

[hard sigil]

realistic shed lie low

for a little at least

she would still think that she is the last of her kind

[clear knot]

My inital thought is her primary target is killing Mara Sov, and possibly Uldren (which would be how Crow gets introduced, since the Guardian can't kill Uldren)

[hard sigil]

but eventually the rumour that there's a living wish dragon in the system would get out

[clear knot]

Which would cause the vamguard to start a hunt?

[hard sigil]

most likely

[hard sigil]

actually no she'd have the eggs she'd have hidden in her lair

[clear knot]

I thought the eggs were floating the leylines as of Wish?

[hard sigil]

ah wait yes

[clear knot]

Speaking of, how were we able to find the eggs? I played, but didn't understand that part of wish's story

[empty fern]

Savathun games

[hard sigil]

something about aligning the leylines within the dreaming city

[clear knot]

ohhh ok

So instead of aligning them with the city, since Riven is extremely powerful, could she force them to align with where she wants since she's alive in my au?

[hard sigil]

I doubt it

[clear knot]

oh ok

[hard sigil]

the dreaming city is special because of its connection with the ascendant plane

and their unique technology that allows them to utilise it

[clear knot]

So, idea: Riven kills Mara (and possibly uldren). Shapeshifts and runs the Dreaming City as Mara/Uldren, and gets the technology to align the leylines and take the eggs back "As insurance"

Is that a feasible thing if she had escaped?

[queen swallow]

It's headcanon. You can just decide it is.

[hard sigil]

honestly I'm not sure riven could kill Mara

[clear knot]

ok

[clear knot]

Why do you say that? Isn't she just an awoken with no light?

[hard sigil]

Mara is very powerful

[clear knot]

I apologize if I'm underselling her

[hard sigil]

she's got a throne world

[clear knot]

wut

[hard sigil]

which is only something Ascendant hive (and Eris) have achieved

[clear knot]

How did she do that?

[hard sigil]

Shattered Throne is her throne world

[clear knot]

ohhhhh

[ember storm]

Also awoken are paracausal on their own

That’s how techeuns have powers

Mara has the most out of all of them

[hard sigil]

Throne worlds are micro-universes carved out of the Ascendant Plane, when your soul (or will) has a lot of weight, it's presence in the ascendant plane collapses in on itself to create a throne world. Mara is simply strong enough, and has enough willpower to have one of her own

at least that's my interpretation of how it works

[ember storm]

Long story short, Mara used Eris’ help and Riven to make her own

[clear knot]

Dang, okay

[ember storm]

And it really only worked because she scooped up the leftover sword logic essence Oryx left when he died (we never took any of it when we killed gim)

[hard sigil]

the whole Bomb Theory thing iirc

[ember storm]

Bomb logic was just a logic, it wasn’t anything related to power

It was just the philosophy that things can come together and be greater but if any one part is handled wrong the whole thing can explode

[hard sigil]

oh right

[lofty badge]

are the Fallen on Kepler ment to be a group of the same house of exiles from the moon who was just seperated from the rest of the house during the centuries?

[slim girder]

She wouldn't be able to replace mara. Look like her sure but mara is such a unique person that just like a guardian it'd be obvious it's not her

[floral verge]

Thanks

[sick yew]

Spotted the most important thing from the EoF trailer

DA

@jagged badge this is where you live right

[slim girder]

I find it interesting at the end of the new trailer Lodi says "eyes up weapon" not the usual "eyes up guardian"

[queen swallow]

What else would the Nine view us as?

[sick yew]

Lodi isnt one of the Nine

At least he doesnt appear to be ig
Maybe theyre trying to get him to be next Orin

[queen swallow]

I know he's not but that doesn't mean they could've told him that we are one

[sick yew]

Fair fair

[slim girder]

Lodi definitely seems to be being driven insane by the nines visions. He's from a time period possibly a thousand years ago and now living amongst the aionians. He even asks us if we could tell him about earth.

Bro has time traveled, seen disasters as he puts it, isn't human anymore and his distress signal says he's moonsick.

[slow berry]

Was Failsafe conscious from since the collapse or did she "awaken" later?

[dim minnow]

I believe she was conscious the entire time

[slow berry]

So you're telling me she basically mogged rasputin

[little gorge]

well rasputin singlehandedly bought us time to kill the witness

[little gorge]

anyways i just wanted to say

the writers are truly goated for understanding how future sight (which i guess lodi seems to have?) is actually supposed to work

"choice is real, but every choice you make will lead you here"

you have free will, but the future you see cannot be affected, as that's the outcome of your actions after seeing it

that is true future sight

[clear knot]

Is the My Name is Byf 3 hour video or however long it is wortg watching or listening to?

[river creek]

Where is the first mention of Nezarec?

[clear knot]

My bad, 10 hours

[blazing wasp]

it will get you caught up on all the core lore and story up until the final shape

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/nezarecs-sin

[river creek]

I thought it was in d1?

is this actually the first reference of him?

[trim grotto]

Yep
And keep in mind there's only actually one in vanilla and none for Shadowkeep

And one in Forsaken, the second is an ornament

Two references until Haunted

[river creek]

oh

[clear knot]

Is it possible to destroy throne worlds?

I know the Dreadnought was a throne world, but it was turned inside out and used on the material plane

[trim grotto]

A Throne World begins disintegration upon the true death of the owner. It nearly happened with Savathun's, if not for the Wellspring.
Eris Morn also severed connection to Xivu's Throne. Presumably it has begun to decay in a similar manner.
Rhulk suggested the Upended would also destroy Sav's Throne World.

[jagged badge]

We also witnessed/had to escape the destruction of the Mindbender’s Throne World

[clear knot]

How does one, who has a throne world and can't die in the material plane, have a true death?

[clear knot]

Who's that?

[jagged badge]

One of the Scorned Barons

[clear knot]

Okay

[trim grotto]

By dying within their Throne World

[clear knot]

Ohhh

[river creek]

How tf did the mindbender have a throne world

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/oryx-kings-fall-destiny-king-entrance-gif-24029092

[trim grotto]

We're not actually entirely sure, but he, like Eris Morn, was trapped within the Hellmouth and learned the secrets of the Hive to survive. Some theorise he was piggybacking off of a Broodmother, and others theorise he injested a Worm Parasite himself.

The Death of Cayde-6 fuelled the creation

[river creek]

What is a broodmother?

[trim grotto]

Hive Witch who... Mothers a brood.

[river creek]

oh

[jagged badge]

It’s still insane to me that he can use one death he didn’t even do to create a literal Throne World

[trim grotto]

We sort of did the same thing with Eris in Season of the Witch

She may have killed Savathun but most of it was us

And Mara sort of did the same thing by claiming the abandoned power of Oryx

[tight inlet]

I'm just spitting this theory about ash and iron, what if Maya tries to use the echo to control siva and it backfires causing the Resurrection of Fellwinter and causing siva to become self aware enough to start to take control of abunch of vex and enemies in the area. Siva becoming self aware was a thing in the lore which Rasputin said Siva was like a voice in the back of his head. So just imagine if Siva because self aware enough to know how to use and manipulate the echo to its commands. The would be and awesome idea and a dangerous thing to happen if such a thing could occur. But we know Bungie.

[slim girder]

If I had to guess mayas intentions on EoF maybe something on Kepler from the nine possesses power which would allow her to make that golden age she's after.

Given all the time shenanigans that might be of interest to her and learning if she could manipulate it.

Her echo might also have some hidden secrets now that some time has passed and she's had more time with it.

[sweet swan]

for my story I'm trying to name the order of Warlocks my character is brought into based around the Vex

they study everything involving em and i can't think of a name

symbol too cuz I wanna have some concepts

[slim girder]

You could make them part of the gensym scribes.

That order studied the vex a lot. Asher mir was a member of that order.

[sweet swan]

isn't that the armor you get from io?

[slim girder]

Yes. But again that was an order of warlocks who studied the vex.

[sweet swan]

I see

how would I explain them on earth tho

you don't see many vex on earth I think

again, I'm not too too into the lore

[slim girder]

You could definitely have a branch of the organisation be from earth. All guardians are from the last city after all.

[sweet swan]

fair

do get have a logo?

on the hand cannon I wanna get a concept of he infuses his old bond into his hand cannon and I wanted the logo on his bond to be put on his gun

[slim girder]

Unfortunately a lot of orders save for the big ones like the vanguard and iron lords haven't had any logos shown. We just know of all these orders by name

[ember storm]

Guardians are almost never left in one place but all primary bases of operation would be on earth

[sweet swan]

I see

idk what I would wanna do for the gun then

ik I'd want wrapping around it cuz I like that stuff but idk about anything else

I don't own a warlock

[ember storm]

I mean it can just be like wrapping based on the armor’s general color scheme

[sweet swan]

I was thinking something else for him

idk what the lore design of my character's look would look like as of yet

[ember storm]

I mean the design doesn’t need to really be intrinsically tied to lore

Cayde’s outfit is just a mishmash of random shit with the vanguard dare cloak and a spade patch on his shoulder

You can just make whatever you think looks good and then add detail

[sweet swan]

this is my lore and my guardian when he gives up being a Warlock he turns his robes into his cloak and combines his bond with his hand cannon

but idk what bonds would look cool on a gun

for reference

[ember storm]

I mean there’s only a couple that are actually cloth

And basically none of them have lore

So you can literally just make it up

That’s the magic of fanfiction

[sweet swan]

I'm trying to get my friend to draw a concept of my signature weapon but I'm trying to get like images and think of stuff that would make a gun look cool for my character

if I can find a nice warlock bond I could take that design and put it on the concept

I like this

he can win it in an iron banner match or something

I do like playing iron banner even if I dislike pvp

[ember storm]

Again you don’t really need to make lore about every piece of gear they’re wearing, you can if you WANT but I wouldn’t be stressing about it

[sweet swan]

I like making lore and having an explanation for everything

it's fun to me

ik I don't have to but I want to

[ember storm]

Yeah but moderation, sounds like this is keeping you from making progress

[sweet swan]

I put things in notes and my brain for later

[slim girder]

That's quite a concept. Tyra karn is I believe the only guardian we've met that doesn't actually fight anymore. Zavala would also be another one I guess now that he has started aging after losing his light.

[ember storm]

Efrideet

[slim girder]

Guardians can't exactly "give up" on what makes them who they are.

[ember storm]

Yeah

They can just not engage entirely

I.E drifter

Dredgen Yor also famously did not embody a titan whatsoever in his new identity to the point people still confuse him for a hunter

[slim girder]

I did think about her but can't remember at the time if she truly stopped fighting.

[ember storm]

She came out of “retirement” only during the red war

She lives with an entire colony of pacifist risen

That’s like her entire gimmick

[sweet swan]

alot of my ideas come from people here

[slim girder]

This sounds like it's talking more about what ghosts might do. But again guardians can't really give up on what makes them a guardian. They instead just retire from fighting and go into more analytical roles.

Guardians like Saladin and Zavala can offer huge amounts of wisdom to more active guardians but they still definitely embody their positions as titans.

[ember storm]

Idk where you really really going with this tbh

[cold onyx]

is the fate saga gonna dive into choice and if we get to control it

[queen swallow]

Yes

[cold onyx]

and like if we do get choices is it that we are destined to make that choice

[queen swallow]

In game? From what Lodi tells us in the trailer, all the choices we make, no matter what they are, lead us to Kepler. The Nine arranged it so we wouldn't say no.

If you're talking about, like, dialogue choices or different paths in the expansion, I don't think there will be any. The choices Lodi is talking about is stuff like choosing to take on Crota or Oryx or Savathun or allying with Misraaks or Caiatl.

[dull condor]

I'm probably forgetting, but was there a cutscene during the campaign where this scene played? The clocked figure holding a piece of glass shining onto zavala's face? I don't remember

[queen swallow]

Yes

Exactly as you described

[dim minnow]

yeah, this was at the end of the second to last campaign mission

when Targe sacrificed himself to save Zavala from the Witness

[dull condor]

Thank you I'll check it out

[grand jungle]

Can these “nine” be more dangerous then wittness?

[slow berry]

Who knows!

[queen swallow]

If they wanted to, maybe? They've done a lot of bad things to us and to people vaguely adjacent to us as Guardians. They stopped us from noticing Ghaul before his attack on the Last City. But they're not universe ending like the Witness.

[slow berry]

They're dangerous the same way a group of nine toddlers with superpowers would be kinda

They aren't actively malicious or anything they just

Don't really understand us

[grand jungle]

Are they a threat to us they just interested in us

[queen swallow]

They could, collectively, decide to straight up murder you, however improbable that may be. But it's only going to hurt you specifically because they don't like you. The Witness, in comparison, is just nuking the Earth.

[slow berry]

Imagine if it turned out every single cell and thought in your body was part of a solar system, with its own life, own culture, own thoughts and lives in themselves. You'd probably do a lot of harm trying to figure out how you guts and brains work, but you just don't get it

[grand jungle]

So in other words Nine are a smack wittness is a knockout punch

[slow berry]

Ghaul was a major fuckup but it was literally the equivalent of trying to see what'd happen if you put a fork into an outlet

[slow berry]

The Nine are flailing aimlessly and sometimes they hit something, with various degrees of force and consequences

[queen swallow]

And really they'd only smack Guardians. Everyone else would probably be fine. The Witness just didn't care at all.

[slow berry]

Like a puppet learning how its strings work

[grand jungle]

Gonna be interesting to see whet they can do

Release date is 15right

[queen swallow]

July 15

Tuesday 10am Pacific Time

Most likely server issues that are common on launch so it might take a while to actually log in

[dim minnow]

let me put it this way:
They NEED us to survive, however, they are actively trying to find a way to cut off their reliance on us

though, each member of the Nine's opinion on us is likely very different between each of them

so whether or not they hate us depends on which member

remember, one of them helped the Red Legion reach the Last City which caused the Red War

the Nine also caused the events of House of Wolves by releasing Skolas

oh also, if they wanted to, they can boil our brains

luckily, we can use our Light to protect ourselves

[hot sierra]

Actually, what are the nine exactly? Do we know that?

[jagged badge]

Dark matter given consciousness by the development of life in the Solar system

[hot sierra]

Sounds ominous kinda

[slim girder]

Yes. They are very ancient beings and there's still not a whole lot we know except that they are dust and wish to break free from that dependence on our existence to live.

[sick yew]

Space dust!!!!

With thoughts

[trim grotto]

It is!
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust
This is the long answer, a tale following Cryptarch Lavinia in her search to understand the Nine. The shorter answer is a specific entry within it, aptly titled The Nine. The shortest answer is what Eris said.

I do highly recommend Dust though

[sick yew]

One day Xur's will is going to be his own again

One day...

[hard sigil]

I really want to know what kinda SCP ass organisation Lodi worked for. why was the phone receiver already in a weird vault-like room. has it rung before? did they have other artefacts?

[ember storm]

dennys corporate hq

[sick yew]

If Bungie makes a bootleg FBC canon in D2 id be hyped for it ngl

It does look a bit like the Traveler (I may be delusional)

[sick yew]

EoF post credit scene, Lodi hands us the phone cord, we pick it up and listen and on the other end

https://tenor.com/view/dante-dmc5-kynvanilla-gif-23176909

[little gorge]

mfw i would bet my life savings he was an aion researcher from the golden age but bungie reveals he is from the 50s

[hard sigil]

it was pretty clear with the Chicago Connection

[little gorge]

anyways he works for motorolla, if you pay attention you can notice they have a prototype for the first mobile phone

also i love the idea that the nine hit up a random phone in chicago to invite a guy from 1000 years ago to a random planet

[hard sigil]

their seal translates to "Discovery, Exploration, Observation, Connected"

wonder if they're into just paranatural phenomena at large or something specific

[little gorge]

vaguely reminiscent of the aion mantra thing

[hard sigil]

aionians could be the far flung evolution of Lodi's group

seems like something the nine would arrange

[slim girder]

Random phone that wasn't connected to anything and was in a random room like something out of control or an SCP entry.
Too bad Lodi lost the suit he had though.

[little gorge]

maybe

[ember storm]

anyway uh

spamton real

[little gorge]

the aion collective seemingly had ties with braytech

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/spamton-deltarune-phone-ring-ringing-gif-8084733611488084699

[hard sigil]

I'd say he still has it, the Aionians just gave him something more field-ready

can't believe the GMAN in real

[slim girder]

I'm just very interested as to how he ended up on Kepler. Like when he picked up that phone was he transported? Did he go into the room and then walk back out into Kepler? What did the nine say to him on that phone? Lots of questions as to why someone from the 50-60s is now 1000 years in the future.

And off planet

[hard sigil]

he took the train duh

it just took a REALLY long time

I doubt that's actually the case though but it'd be funny

[ember storm]

glasses man with bad haircut picks up phone in dark room

gets filled in horrible amounts of terrifying knowledge

???

profit

[slim girder]

Bro got sucked into the phone and spat out onto Kepler

Again very interested to see what happened. This all gives me Alan wake/control vibes.

[hard sigil]

the nine are usually pretty pragmatic with what they include in their plans, so why Lodi is there is the question. is he a makeshift replacement for Orin? (and why not just use Xûr in that case?) or does he specifically possess some quality that's important?

[slim girder]

Something to also note about Lodi is if he's tied to the corruption we saw on vesper station. That anomaly was built and that message from Lodi came through it.

Is this corruption tied to that dark matter infected ether the new house of exile zealots have ingested

[hard sigil]

especially because that corruption is pre-collapse. it was in containment on Vesper Station. We know VS was a black site for Clovis, so it could be that he was dealing with the Aionians back then. Furthermore, why would the Clovis AI not tell anyone about a place in the solar system where people could potentially still be?

it could be a piece of Aionian tech, maybe even a prototype Siva (eugh) variant

[slim girder]

Because it had locks placed on it by Clovis. Remember we had to manually lift the lock on the vesper AI who we now know as astraea.
She even says Clovis denied her the tools to keep people safe.

[hard sigil]

I mean the Clovis AI on europa

I guess he had his reasons to not be cooperative with us

[slim girder]

Because Clovis is a jerk and doesn't care for humans unless they give him something valuable for his god complex.

An outpost on Kepler he'd probably consider worthless.

Not to mention the aionians have their own culture and lifestyle now

[little gorge]

not unlikely

[hard sigil]

true

[little gorge]

clearly the trains from chicago can go to kepler

[hard sigil]

there was that one shot with the train and ikora on what looked like Earth

maybe they're doctor who machines

[little gorge]

what i'm wondering is why are the nine doing all this

how does this help them get control of the singularity

they have invited us, lodi, probably maya, and seemingly started whatever the whole giver thing is

[hard sigil]

using us weapons to fight off the House of Exiles and Maya I would assume

[little gorge]

also why is there so much dark matter on kepler when there isn't one of the nine there

[hard sigil]

the singularity poses an opportunity for Maya potentially send herself and as many vex as she'd like back to the 50s, during which she'd probably have her way with the world potentially a century or more before the traveller arrives

[hard sigil]

ok hear me out with this. singularities are very gravitationally dense. the nine are made of Dark Matter. they're trying to get control of Kepler to birth a new member

[little gorge]

actually

[hard sigil]

a member that isn't reliant on the gravity of the sun

[little gorge]

what if there is already a "dark matter mind" on kepler

[hard sigil]

that could be the Giver

[little gorge]

we know theia (the body that crashed into earth and eventually became the moon) did

[hard sigil]

it's interesting that Theia probably wasn't sentient like the rest are but they mourn it regardless

[little gorge]

oh right

because it wouldn't have life on it

but kepler does

[hard sigil]

I don't think even the earth would've at that time

it's like a twin being absorbed in the womb

[little gorge]

on the other hand the sun doesn't have life on it either

so the presence of life in sol might be enough for all of them

[hard sigil]

post traveller is probably when they became the most "aware" due to how much life was in the system

[little gorge]

actually iirc the book is worded like they all became sentient at once

[hard sigil]

if quantity even matters at all

[little gorge]

so they probably don't require life on their specific planetary body

(since it would exist on earth millennia before the other ones)

[hard sigil]

yeah

[little gorge]

anyways if we go with the idea of big rock = dark matter loop then kepler has to have a mind doesn't it

[hard sigil]

most likely

especially with a black hole inside it

[little gorge]

that's a good point actually

kepler probably has more gravity than even the sun

[hard sigil]

that'd really mess up the solar system though

[little gorge]

clearly the physics of it won't be realistic or anything

but for lore purposes regarding dark matter that probably holds

[hard sigil]

actually that's why ikora is coming isn't it

she was concerned about the singularity destabilizing and wiping out the system

(alongside her own invitation)

[little gorge]

and yet she's entirely unconcerned when she spams nova

anyways with lodi working for the scp foundation could it be that they discovered the nine before the traveller even came to sol

[hard sigil]

potentially

[little gorge]

now that i think about it in the cinematic teaser orin says we have "forgotten" about them

[ember storm]

she just needs enrichment and exercise

[hard sigil]

she hasn't been out of her enclosure since witch queen

[little gorge]

nah she taught zavala stasis remember

[hard sigil]

(and she was also just in the pale heart)

I want to know how the nine are ringing that phone

there's no actual unit to ring

[little gorge]

they are repeatedly doing the mario 64 speedrun bitflip on it

[vast kiln]

Guuuuys. I was playing Shadowverse Worlds beyond and I found Osiris’ son.

[hard sigil]

just shooting stray protons at it

[little gorge]

there's a speaker in there

(no destiny reference intended)

[hard sigil]

a speakers.... sight......

[vast kiln]

I’m not crazy this is Osiris’ son

I'M NOT CRAZY.

I HAVE MORE PROOF.

[hard sigil]

too destiny pilled to consider Egyptian mythology

[vast kiln]

Osiris is Egyptian Mythology

[little gorge]

is lodi even his real name

that is not a 1950s american name

[hard sigil]

is that a question or affirmation of what I said

[vast kiln]

Affirmation

Confirmation

Agreement?

[hard sigil]

sure

[vast kiln]

I’m not crazy he even has the eye thing!

Plus the character, Lovesign, uses Green Magic. And Osiris uses Strand.

AAAAAA

[hard sigil]

maybe not? could be a code name

[vast kiln]

Should I be gone?

Go back into my rabbit hole?

[hard sigil]

like the... eye of Horus?

[vast kiln]

True.

...BUT I STILL REFUSE TO BELIEVE I AM JUST CRAZYYYY

BAck into the rabbit hole with me.

[hard sigil]

Lodi doesn't MEAN anything though which is hrm

[empty fern]

[queen swallow]

No Guardian has their original name, I don’t believe.

[hard sigil]

Lodi isn't a guardian, and many guardians do. all exos, for instance, have their name encoded into them

(and like. people like Ana who had ID on them)

[queen swallow]

I’m still half asleep so the thought process isn’t processing but my general point is that there have been shown a number of ways of people having their name changed from what it was originally.

[hard sigil]

fair

we just don't know enough about Lodi right now

[queen swallow]

It could just be his actual name too. He says it with enough confidence

[frigid sparrow]

Micah and Ana both do

Ana for obvious reasons, but one of the lore tabs out there specifically has Micah "feeling" her name or something of that matter

Ah, 6th coyote also has

According to Therin, Exo Guardians usually remember their names, but that's it. Awoken and Human Guardians remember nothing, so they just pick new names.

Additionally, Shinobu uses her old name, since she found her diary after being rezzed

[dim minnow]

That, and the fact she was dead for like a minute

She's one of the contenders for shortest time between initial death and ressurection

Though she still had no memories from her past life despite the brief gap

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah it isn't really a factor, in the Shinobu's vow tab it shows how she still sees her pre-risen self as a different person before beginning to call herself by her old name

I don't know how to write this.

I died.

Well, Shinobu died.

This is hard.

But she—I?—she must have kept this journal for a reason. So here goes.

[slow berry]

All Exos do

[sick yew]

Ana Bray?

Nvm someone said that already

Oop

[queen swallow]

I’m going to snail you

[jagged badge]

I’m gonna do one even better

[sick yew]

You have no right to snail me after asking such a question in the first place

Withdraw your snail reaction at once

[sick yew]

You.

[queen swallow]

I woke up like five minutes before that message

[sick yew]

Then I suggest you may adjust your sleep schedule

Smh

[queen swallow]

My sleep schedule is fine, I’m just not fully thinking when I first wake up

[cloud glacier]

when did Destiny’s story shift from you being “a Guardian” to you being “the Guardian”?

[hard sigil]

probably when we started doing all the insane stuff

[ember storm]

like the literal end of vanilla D1

dark below and house of wolves only happen specifically because we're asked in particular

[cloud glacier]

I mean, the way I experienced all the campaigns it really started being a thing in TTK

like, Cayde literally calls you his favourite guardian

[ember storm]

because we both discovered the hive presence in the cosmodrome (so eris asked for our help) and owed Mara a favor (so we helped hunt skolas)

[cloud glacier]

aka tying up loose ends in D1’s vanilla campaign

[ember storm]

we just got contacted for everything after that

[cloud glacier]

I think House of Wolves was the first one that went in that direction

because even Mara Sov takes a liking to the Guardian

when you defeat Skolas

then in TTK it’s really pushed to the forefront

[ember storm]

we go from just a guardian to The Guardian everybody asks to do everything around then

[cloud glacier]

rip the other canonical Guardians

what even did the Speaker do after D1’s vanilla campaign

[trim grotto]

Die.

[cloud glacier]

because like in D1 all he does is tell us to investigate the Moon and he does fuck all after that

[trim grotto]

The Speaker was the head of the Consensus. His role wasn't exactly... active, outside of politics, Traveler-listening, and advice.

[cloud glacier]

rip Speaker

honestly the line “I said I spoke for the Traveller… I never said it spoke to me” is so badass

the Speaker in Red War is like the most active he’s ever been in a campaign

[trim grotto]

It's not a surprise, really.

[cloud glacier]

stupid Ghaul who betrayed his own friend just to become “chosen” instead of doing the smart rational thing of extracting the Light manually

[trim grotto]

He did that too.

The Traveler killed him for it.

[cloud glacier]

also the Traveller just awoke in general

[trim grotto]

In this dream, a horrible, brutal hand stretches toward you. But this is not the old enemy you know, it is something new. Something that hopes to use you more than it hopes to destroy you, but it's willing to settle for either.

The cage is worse than the paralysis of silence. It is worse than the grasping tendrils of dark. It is too tangible. It is too unfamiliar. This is not why you came here. This is not what you deserve.

The fear is enough to make you want to leave.```
It wasn't truly asleep.

You see him, and all he wishes for is confirmation of that fact. But to do so would invoke something far worse than justification. You can feel his hand, reaching inside of you, grasping for your heart and tearing it free for himself. You know the pain he will cause.

In one last act of defiance you break your shackles, exerting the strength you had been slowly gathering all this time. Physical chains break, but chains of causality are not so fragile, even for you.

You see him and he is satisfied. Then, he is gone. Your roar of defiance echoes into the infinite. You know they will witness.

It is only a matter of time.```

[hard sigil]

they will what?

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-say-that-say-that-agian-marvel-fantastic-gif-12441585058103544841

[low gyro]

If i remember correctly the boss battle with Ghaul at the end of red war was him manually extracting Light from the traveler and using Light powers against the Guardian

Then he became a ghost... thing and traveler blew everything away

[cloud glacier]

the Traveller is a badass

it literally waited 300 years for this moment

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

300 years give or take

maybe a lot of give

a lot a lot of give

[sick yew]

Monumental amount of give

[slim girder]

I know this might ruin a bit of the mystery of the traveler but i'm curious as to what the inner working of the traveler are like. Not the pale heart but the physical bio mechanical stuff.

[empty fern]

Wasnt the very start prettt accurate?

Little white out area where thoughts started to manifest

[slim girder]

You mean that area with the platforms? feel like that was still part of the pale heart. Again i'm talking more about the mechanical side of the traveler.

It's shell

[empty fern]

You will not pull an eververse

[sick yew]

Its safe to assume that everything past the threshold is indeed pale heart

But yeah I think we are likely never going to find out why the shell of the traveler is the way it is
Arguably one of the oldest designs that are still in the game and even tho Bungie have changed how the travler uh 'is' they can hardly change the iconic design

[slim girder]

Hawkmoon is made from the outer shell of it so again i'm curious as to what exactly makes the traveler "operate" I know it is a sentient being but it does have amechanical side to it.

Like the beam it fired sort of had it shifting itself and forming a cannon on it's side

[sick yew]

That's what I mean
I dont think that's really the direction Bungie wanna take the traveler anymore
Its shell just kinda is

If they made the traveler today I think they would have skipped the mechanical aspect of it

[slim girder]

Probably

[sick yew]

With all of the recent lore additions to the Traveler and all of final shape there just wasn't any mention of the mechanical aspect

[frigid sparrow]

"the great machine" my ass

[slow berry]

I thought that was light ripples but you're right it for real just fucking

Grew a death laser on the side

[river creek]

Lord of Wolves is an eliksni weapon, so is that why it has a pump, as frontal grip, a trigger handle, and a secondary handle?

4 places to put a hand

[slim girder]

Yes

[queen swallow]

It is based upon the Fallen Shrapnel Launcher that Fallen Captains wield so yes.

[river creek]

Is it an altered version?

[queen swallow]

I don't know if the models are different but the mag is now magazine-fed instead of break-action.

[river creek]

oh alright

[queen swallow]

"It is based on the Fallen Shrapnel Launcher commonly wielded by Captains, albeit modified to be a magazine-fed weapon instead of break-action. However it does not fire small rockets like the Launcher does, being closer in function to the Scorn Blaster. In an older version of the gun, its unique perk, Devil's Touch, lit enemies on fire to simulate this."

From the trivia section of the weapon on Destinypedia

[dim minnow]

worth noting is has been modified by a non-Eliksni

[river creek]

oh

[dim minnow]

I think it was Jolyon who modified it

[river creek]

that would make sense

[sweet swan]

finally getting back to adding more to the story, I'm a bit tired but wanted to get some advice

I used a name generator for the names

idk how a fireteam finding a newly revived guardian would play out so I'm just here

[slim girder]

All guardians are drawn the traveler. If a new guardian is discovered it's generally assumed they'd be pointed towards earth and the last city. Just like us when we first were brought back we needed to find a weapon and get to the city as told by our ghost.
Pretty much all ghosts come back to the city after searching for the guardians since it's safe.

[sweet swan]

I see

so what should I change then?

[trim grotto]

In that excerpt? Nothing much. Your Guardian's Ghost would tell him you'd need to go to the Last City, and... well, you'd still need a way to get there. Signs indicate it's in South America, so chances are you'd need some transport. Or in this case, other Guardians.

We did the same thing in the tutorial - fought Fallen until we found a barely functional Jumpship in the Cosmodrome over in Old Russia.

[sweet swan]

I can just add in the part where Mox tells my guardian we gotta get to the last city in one of the earlier paragraphs

so what about the weapon, what if one isn't anywhere to be seen?

run? hide?

cuz surely it would be an issue

[trim grotto]

Hm. Well, you'd simply try to find one. Also like we did in the Cosmodrome.
In fact, as a relevant excerpt...

Gol explains that there is a settlement a few days' walk to the east, that there is no road, and that the wilderness is regularly patrolled by roving aliens who will try to kill them both. As he speaks, Orin looks around. They are surrounded by a young forest vivacious with birds and clouds of gnats. It is impossible to imagine that a deadly alien might be lurking somewhere nearby. But Gol found her. Gol knows more about the world than she does. She trusts him.

She scavenges the leaf litter until she finds a fallen tree limb. "Will this help?" she asks him, testing its heft. He twists his wings, puzzled. "...Against the aliens," she elaborates.

"Oh." Courteous, he pretends to consider it, then, "No. Probably not. They have guns."

"I see," she says, though she doesn't. She breaks off the smaller branches, using her foot for leverage. Soon, she has a crude mace. It is heavy, slow, and does not break when she tests it against a tree trunk.

She doesn't know what the aliens look like. She does not know what guns are. She does trust Gol. But, she can't help thinking, if an alien tried to attack her while she was armed with a stick like this, she would have no trouble crushing its skull.```

Orin turned out to be a Titan, naturally, but it could be some insight.

But, yes. If an unarmed New Light encountered armed enemies, they would surely be told to hide. Unless they're a Titan, because they're insane.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/into-the-fray

[sweet swan]

how's this then

[trim grotto]

Sure, if that's how you want it. Ghosts may share some instincts, but they're also people. Nothing's uniform.

[sweet swan]

idk I'm just trying to make a quick story

nothing too detailed

just a quick bit of lore for fun

get me something to do too

[trim grotto]

The Guardian Milkman

[sweet swan]

yes I have a milk man thing going on

thus the Kell of Cows name

after guardians get to the last city what happens then?

[trim grotto]

Well, they train. Lord Shaxx trains them in the Crucible, they get acquainted with life, they begin to learn to harness their Light, and will be sent out on Strikes and such.

[sweet swan]

gotcha

guardians do have like homes and bases in the city right?

[trim grotto]

Tend to, yes. It's mostly Hunters who have out-of-City outposts, but yes.

We've seen Eris Morn's apartment, for example.

And Deputy Commander Sloane had one too.

[sweet swan]

gotcha

the order's like has this huge area that has the corpse of Eodax

just in pieces

don't ask me how they got the parts in there, I just thought it would be cool

[hard sigil]

it's interesting to see what comes to some guardians naturally. Orin doesn't know what a gun is, but can understand that a mace-like weapon would be effective because heavy = harder hit. and also that she, and all guardians by extension, retain knowledge of language

obviously a risen retains more than instinctual knowledge, but how far it goes seems to be a case by case basis

perhaps it's only "natural" concepts?

[slim girder]

Nurture vs nature. That's what it all boils down to usually.

[hard sigil]

yeah

with personality, sure. but I mean actual mechanical knowledge

[jagged badge]

Actually there’s a good quote about this

[slim girder]

Orin in her previous life was an awoken corsair so she already had some knowledge of weaponry.

[trim grotto]

Except, she didn't.

Not guns, anyway.

[jagged badge]

He did not, except that he said he could touch magnetic fields and loved to tweak the miniscule weave of the circuits in his robe. He had a zoogoer's enthusiasm for particle physics.```

[hard sigil]

I guess you can make a person forget everything, but they're still going to be interested by the same things on a base level

[slim girder]

Maybe but as an awoken corsair I feel that sort of stuff would have been part of training. Like we see the corsairs everywhere in the dreaming city usually with a weapon on them or sometimes in more analytical roles.

[hard sigil]

that "mindedness" towards certain concepts will remain

[trim grotto]

Nevertheless, you can scroll up to see they were alien to her.

[hard sigil]

that's also because corsairs are like. soldiers. it'd be strange to see a guard on duty/in the field without a weapon to do the guarding with

[slim girder]

Orin was able to fashion a club out of branches. That would require some kind of knowledge. It probably isn't that deep but hopefully that makes sense what I'm trying to say that maybe orins corsair past still left some imprint on her even as a guardian

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure I'd agree that extensive training was involved in turning a heavy piece of wood into a marginally more wieldable piece of heavy wood.

She just broke off the errant branches in the way of holding it.

[slim girder]

Yeah you're probably right. I'm just thinking about it because in most forms of military IRL you are taught fieldcraft and how to make different things from trees and bushes. I was an army cadet years ago and that was a big part of some lessons.

[trim grotto]

I was too. I was a Sergeant. Good times.

[slim girder]

I didn't go past cadet. Life got too busy but I still had fun being active and going on camps and learning all those skills.

[trim grotto]

Ours was a mandatory part of high school for years 9 and 10, and voluntary for 11 and 12, which I took.

[slim girder]

Mine was voluntary. I just saw a poster about it and thought it'd be fun to try after school once a week. Ended up being there for I believe 2 years.

I still wear my army socks with my work boots lol

Got to keep my rising sun badge as well.

[ember storm]

I like doghives

[wheat haven]

I like Crimson

I wish it had more backstory than just being a highly illegal weapon..

[slow berry]

It does!

It's a recreation of the Red Death

probably because for a good while the Red Death was thought to be lost during the red war's attack on the tower

[slim girder]

It does. It's loretab is about a guardian who is taking precautions in case we lose the light again and arguing with their ghost about stating the obvious.

[slow berry]

hence why it's basically a smaller red death and had more or less the exact exotic perk Red Death had

[wheat haven]

Wait

So what you guys are telling me

THERE IS A BETTER VERSION OF CRIMSON??

[slim girder]

Red death is the original.

Crimson is like red death in hand cannon form.

[wheat haven]

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY BUNGIE AND GIMME THAT PULSE RIFLEEEE

[slim girder]

See the resemblance?

[queen swallow]

If you've bought The Final Shape you should be able to get it from the Monument to Lost Lights Kiosk

[slim girder]

It's now called red death reformed in D2.

[muted hound]

Do you think Savathun and Rhulk talked to eachother?

[queen swallow]

As disciples of the Witness?

[ember storm]

And no longer does your Subjugator subjugate. He lies ensnared within his obtrusive eyesore, for upon Rhulk's attempt to subdue me with that toy he's annoyingly always on about—his "Upended"—I was able to counteract it, showing firsthand the power bequeathed to me in my new state.

[muted hound]

Ig any of the disciples

Like wouldnt they fight eachother for the title of being the witness’s right hand

[blazing wasp]

no not really

they just serve the witness under the assumption the final shape will be what they want

[slim girder]

Not really. They all had their own interpretation of the final shape and simply believed in making that happen under the witness.
Calus was the only one who acted like a puppy wanting to be second in charge

[queen swallow]

I think Rhulk actually was the only one who wanted to be under the Witness. The rest just had their own ambitions. Calus definitely did not like being second and Savathun almost always has ulterior motives. Not sure where or if Nezarec fits into that.

[slim girder]

Rhulk was blindly loyal.
Calus absolutely wanted to be second because he thinks he's entitled to bear witness to the end of the universe through the final shape.
Nezarec I don't think really cared so long as he could fulfil that taste for suffering and fear as the god of pain.

[muted hound]

Would Savathun count as a disciple? (Unknowningly since she was tricked)

She executed the witness’s plan for the traveler without knowing it was him

[ember storm]

No?

Savathun directly defied the witness

It’s her fault the final shape wasn’t just enacted during the collapse

[halcyon cove]

Hi guys i just started playing final shape and im pretty new and i dont understand the whole dynamic between the traveler and the witness

[blazing wasp]

the short version is that the traveler is a benevolent ball that is known to uplift civilizations into a golden age

the first known civilization she uplifted (yes, she) was known as the "Precursors"

[halcyon cove]

So this is a recurring thing?

[blazing wasp]

ill get to it, trust

[halcyon cove]

Ok my fault keep going

[blazing wasp]

while the traveller offers gifts and uplifts a civilization, it doesnt give direction or purpose

the traveler heavily supports free will, and doesnt really "act"

the precursors disliked this, and they also wanted to achieve something they deem "the final shape"

the final shape that ended up being concluded on was to calcify the universe into a single moment for each living thing, constantly living out what the witness deems to be the ideal moments, over and over and over again

iirc it also included an effective ego death, making it so that you will like this

[halcyon cove]

Is the witness one of the precursors? I dont get who he is exactly

[blazing wasp]

to do this, the witness needed to link the traveler with "the veil", some darkness related thing

[halcyon cove]

Oh yeah i did the first mission of lightfall its on the planet

[blazing wasp]

the witness is firstly an "it", and its the entire species of the precursors

[halcyon cove]

Whaaat

So thats why he has faces coming out of him?

Ohhh thats good design

[ember storm]

they conducted a ritual to meld away their physical form and become a gestalt entity

it is not a person

[blazing wasp]

the witness is deadset on achieving this "final shape", and the traveler being a genuinely benevolent thing obviously doesnt want this

so, the traveler ran

until it made it to us, when the traveler decided to actually stand up for itself

[ember storm]

it is a sentient philosphy that has the sole purpose of proving itself correct

[blazing wasp]

with the help of savathuns trickery, an apocalypse known as "the collapse" did not wipe out everything was the result.

[halcyon cove]

Is savathun that witch queen

[halcyon cove]

So the witch queen helped the traveler?

What

Why

[blazing wasp]

cause if the witness succeeded it would enact the final shape

which is bad for EVERYONE

[halcyon cove]

I see

Is that why the calus queen is also helping

Caitlyn or whatever

[ember storm]

caiatl is the cabal empress

she helped overthrow her father

[halcyon cove]

Because of the witness or other reasons?

Is there a difference between calus and cabal

[ember storm]

calus is a person

cabal is their race

[halcyon cove]

Oh yeah who is that

[ember storm]

calus was a shitty person who later joined the witness

caiatl's father, the previous emperor

[halcyon cove]

In the first mission of lightfall i remember yeah he was talking about some shadow legion

[halcyon cove]

Hes calus?

[ember storm]

that is his name yes

[halcyon cove]

Ok thank you

What is the shadow legion though

[ember storm]

calus' legion based around darkness that he founded after becoming a disciple of the witness

it empowered him and his forces to aid the invasion of the system to start the final shape

[halcyon cove]

Wouldnt he also get screwed over if he helped the witness

[ember storm]

this is why he sucks

[halcyon cove]

Wow hes kind of a fat idiot

[ember storm]

his entire life was wasted and he burned every bridge he had

[halcyon cove]

And his daughter hates him

[ember storm]

his last "goal" in life was to ensure his daughter could never surpass him as a ruler

even if it meant the end of existence

[halcyon cove]

Vendetta against his OWN daughter

Jeez what a bum

[ember storm]

i mean he had her pet disembowled and left on her bed as a child

so

[halcyon cove]

Yoooo

What

Do we kill him in some mission

In lightfall

[ember storm]

he does in fact die

that's the end of the campaign

[halcyon cove]

Phew

I also want to ask about beyond light

Who are those people that help us

Did they come from the future

That exo stranger

[ember storm]

Elsie Bray is the exo stranger and she was in a groundhog day situation

[halcyon cove]

Oh hey bray i recognize that

Clovis brah

Brah

Bray

[ember storm]

if she failed to safe herself or the traveler she woke back up on one specific day

[halcyon cove]

Is a name ive heard

[ember storm]

he's her grandfather

he sucks

[halcyon cove]

Is he also an exo?

[ember storm]

Eris Morn is the one with three eyes

[ember storm]

technically

exos arent born, for the record

[halcyon cove]

Yeah so how do they have family ties

And hes her grandfather

[ember storm]

they're people who had their minds scanned and placed into robot bodies

[halcyon cove]

Oh yeah i remember her from d1 she was an npc at the tower right

Doesnt she die in the opener for this season

[ember storm]

and has been involved in numerous stories yes

[ember storm]

yea

[halcyon cove]

Wow

Whatd they go and do that for

[halcyon cove]

I did the first couple missions for lament and cba to continue i saw a giant exo head that was apparently clovis brah

Bray

How does that work

[ember storm]

that's an ai copy

when you become an exo you lose your memories at first, and of course clovis couldnt have that

so he had an ai copy made as a failsafe to run things while the fresh exo clovis got acclimated

it didnt fully work so the ai head is all thats left

[halcyon cove]

What does acclimated mean

[ember storm]

what like

the word

the real word

[halcyon cove]

Yea english is not my first language

[ember storm]

you can google

[queen swallow]

Accustomed too

Or gotten used to something

[halcyon cove]

So what did clovis bray get used to

[ember storm]

the idea was he could get used to his exo body and go back to being clovis like usual

[queen swallow]

To being a robot I think

[ember storm]

that didnt work

[halcyon cove]

Stupid

[ember storm]

the exo clovis just saw everything from a fresh perspective and decided he hated it

clovis bray was a morally contempt bastard who threw human lives away for progress, for the record

the exo defying him is a good thing

[halcyon cove]

So he had a change of heart?

[ember storm]

it wasn't technically him so eh

[halcyon cove]

What did the exo do afterwards

The clovis exo

[ember storm]

if a person gets amnesia and doesnt like what they learn about their life, what do you consider that

[ember storm]

became banshee-44

[halcyon cove]

The gun guy?

[ember storm]

yea

[halcyon cove]

Wow

Cool

[queen swallow]

What is? Even if I can't use it here I can better phrase my answers so that you can understand them more.

[halcyon cove]

Its arabic 🙃

[queen swallow]

Oh joy

[halcyon cove]

But dont worry i can understand english fine enough

Im also semi-fluent in french

[queen swallow]

Acclimated, for reference, is متأقلم

[halcyon cove]

I understood from the definition haha no need for the translation

[queen swallow]

Wow Arabic does not work well in some fonts huh

[halcyon cove]

No its pretty clear actually, ive seen worse XD

Are you talking about the discord one?

[queen swallow]

Yeah, squishes the... dots? at the top. I can't remember what they're called. My European brain wants to call them umlauts but that's not it.

[halcyon cove]

Im not that big on etymology we just call them the arabic word for dots

[queen swallow]

lmao

[halcyon cove]

What languages do you speak?

[queen swallow]

Officially? English and some German. I'm just really good at phrasing things in translators and understanding how to get information across as accurately as I can.

[halcyon cove]

Awesome
Also i wanted to ask how you get the explosive finisher mod

[queen swallow]

It requires Rank 7

However, everyone will be reset to Rank 2 on July 15

[trim grotto]

*you don't lose mods though

[severe gale]

in lore are supers limited or can guardians use em whenever?

[hard sigil]

a lot of the time it can kinda depend on the guardian in question. for example, Ikora can causally throw two nova bombs back to back, and also throws a nova bomb and then goes directly into a chaos reach in the Witch Queen campaign. they're translated as abilities in game for mechanical purposes, but lore wise they're all just expressions of the light. like martial arts techniques

[plain topaz]

I’ve seen these symbols a lot but I don’t know what they are. Are they just companies? If so, are they tied to the arcology?

[hard sigil]

they're all logos associated with Titan, yes

the last one I think is the official logo of the Arcology itself, and the first one may be a cargo company based on the emblem you've sourced it from

don't know about the solarium one though

[plain topaz]

Maybe it’s just another company

Wait if the red and gray one is the official arcology logo then what is this. Is this just the logo for the big ol dome city

[hard sigil]

possibly

all this is speculative though (I wasn't even playing when titan was around)

[plain topaz]

Lmao, but that’s probably it because that’s the only place where this symbol is seen

[trim grotto]

hello i have done research on this but i am playing Helldivers
so i will get back to you later

[trim grotto]

also yes
it represents the physical design of the Arcology which I can detail later

[dim minnow]

pretty sure at one point Osiris went through all three subclasses while obliterating Crota's remaining lineage

[ember storm]

Osiris

[cloud glacier]

what about him

[little gorge]

he has a curse

[cloud glacier]

which gave birth to D2’s worst campaign

[slim girder]

CoO had one redeeming quality.

Sagira

Most eccentric ghost ever.

[empty fern]

Neat boss

[dim minnow]

Don't you dare badmouth the award winning expansion like that

Besides, it's campaign was kinda better than Warmind's

[sick yew]

But Warmind gave us the legendary 'Hello Guardian'

[hexed mist]

What is so interesting about Chicago? Like it seems to be some huge point about Lodi n I don’t get why

[trim grotto]

I haven't kept up with whatever's going on with Lodi since I'm staying in the dark for the experience of it, but Old Chicago's been home to a few strange events across the years. Disappearing Guardians, strange Golden Age tech, tales of monsters.

[hexed mist]

Oh sorry if that spoiled anything to you

Thanks though

[trim grotto]

Don't worry about spoilers. I wouldn't be in a public channel if I was that worried.

[sleek matrix]

Graviton lance is from there

[slim girder]

It's a weird place in Destiny's universe. Graviton lance was found there which is a weapon that can create black holes so some kind of scientific work was done there.

[trim grotto]

Among others.

[sleek matrix]

There is significance to that location

[slim girder]

Possibly by the aion company back during the golden age

[hexed mist]

Ahhhh Thats so cool

[ember storm]

It has a funny name

[slim girder]

It's a place that definitely has some kind of time distortion issues. Which could possibly explain missing guardians and some of the weird stuff

It's kinda of like that one place IRL that has its own particle accelerator and people were worried it'd cause a black hole. Lots of research possibly by the aion company on time and space phenomena.

[trim grotto]

Okay, so:
What we have here is the Cargo Bay Cross, New Pacific Access/Kemphaan, and the Solarium Star.
The Cargo Bay Cross is titled thus due to the connected Emblem, so one could assume that is therefore tied to the act of cargo, either as a company that ships cargo, or as an area designated for the act of hauling/receiving cargo.
New Pacific Access/Kemphaan: Due to the Emblem title of New Pacific Access, I would suggest that it may be the symbol of the New Pacific Arcology specifically, rather than representing other Arcologies such as the Green Dove.
The Solarium Star*: The Solarium Star and the Solarium Triangles are often seen together, indicating that what they represent the same thing, or different aspects of the same thing. As the Solarium location is an important aspect of the Arcology itself, at minimum a sort of entry hall, or perhaps the entire area open to the sun, I suggest that it is more than a company logo, and perhaps more akin to the symbols representing an aspect of the Government of the Arcology, that among other things, produces resources for the Arcology and its rigs, as suggested by the many electronics and ration packs bearing the Solarium Triangles.

*This name is a personally provided one and isn't provided by in game knowledge such as Emblem titles

But where it gets particularly fun is the next symbol

[trim grotto]

The Arcology Flower*: This symbol, which I have dubbed the Arcology Flower, is perhaps the most interesting of all the Titan related symbols. The Arcology, the Symbol, and the Flower, are all, in essence, the same. The symbol and the flower are both designed after the Arcology design. Because of this, it seems most likely that the Arcology Flower is the symbol representing the Arcologies as a whole, rather than an individual Arcology such as the New Pacific or Green Dove Arcologies.

*This name is a personally provided one and isn't provided by in game knowledge such as Emblem titles

lore!

[ember storm]

more

[trim grotto]

For the record, these are the aforementioned Solarium Triangles

[trim grotto]

don't even get me started on the pipes

[ember storm]

lore

[agile field]

what does the great machine do?

or what is it?

[dapper moss]

it’s the eliksni’s word for the traveler

[agile field]

wym for the t5raveler?

[dapper moss]

before humanity was the chosen race of the traveler it was the eliksni

[dapper moss]

you do know what the traveler is right?

[agile field]

ohhh

i know the traveler is a god

[dapper moss]

the big white orb in the sky (or technically in the middle of soace now)

its what gives us our ghosts and subsequently our powers of light

[agile field]

yeah its who gave light to humans

[dapper moss]

yup

when the traveler/great machine left the eliksni’s homeworld it left them in ruins

[agile field]

so the great machine is kind of an extension of the traveler?

[dapper moss]

“fallen” we call it

[dapper moss]

no, it is the traveler

[agile field]

so the traveler is omnipresent

[dapper moss]

no its just that orb in the sky 😭

the big white one that u do the final shape inside of

[agile field]

😭

[slim girder]

No it's just another name for it. The precursors called it "the gardener" different species just called it different names.

[agile field]

oh so the great machine IS the traveler

[slim girder]

Yes. Again different species just refer to it by different name

[agile field]

😭

my bad echo

[dapper moss]

allg

[agile field]

im a lil bit slow

[queen swallow]

The Great Machine, The Traveler, The Gardener, That White Fucker Up There = The Traveler

[agile field]

and is he a god of some sort?

[queen swallow]

Not in a deity sense

Worshipped as one but not omnipotent

[agile field]

oh ok makes sense

and what are the vex? the game leaves these things in the open

[dapper moss]

the vex are a hivemind race of time traveling robots

[queen swallow]

The Vex are actually the white fluid stuff you can kind of see in the robots. The rest is just like a controlable suit they're in

[dapper moss]

to put it simply

[agile field]

oh goddamn so they are really powerful

and the gate that eramis opened is a time travel gate?

[dapper moss]

vex gates are kind of complicated

so like yes but also no

you should watch byf’s lore vid

[agile field]

k

[dapper moss]

ive been meaning to do it at some point myself recently bc i’m a bit patchy on the lore rn

[agile field]

is there spoilers?

[dapper moss]

uhhh well i dont think its updated to the final shape

anything it would be spoiling would be stuff thats been around for 2+ years

[agile field]

is the witch queen there?

[slim girder]

@agile field to really dumb down what the vex are.
They are a species made up of tiny microorganisms which is that white fluid you see whenever you shoot a vex in the chest. You can also see oceans of them and this is what's called radiolaria. The metal frames you fight are like suits for this liquid species and are used to fulfill their ultimate goal which is to turn everything living thing in the universe into a vex like being or structure. EVERYTHING must be vex and they run trillions of simulations to find that future where they succeed. The one thing that stops them is us because the vex can't simulate the light and darkness that we use as powers.

[agile field]

ohh makes sense, so thats why they hunt us down thanks @slim girder

[slim girder]

Not exactly. Vex do not possess emotions. We are the equivalent of a weed to them. They don't hate us or anything, we just don't fit into that universe they want to create so they aim to exterminate it.

[agile field]

oh ok

[slim girder]

They don't actually even have "combat" weapons and are more like construction workers fighting with welding irons and nail guns.

[agile field]

lol

[slim girder]

The closest thing we've seen to vex designed for combat would be the wyverns. All other vex are made more for just excavation and really just turning anything into vex architecture.

[agile field]

what about the hydras?

also can i do lightfall then witch queen or will it hurt the lore?

[slim girder]

Hydras are more like the "antennas" of vex. They relay information from "leader vex" to other vex within the same group but can also be used for much more complex tasks.

[slim girder]

Witch queen came before lightfall so if you want to do it in order that's what you'll want to do

[agile field]

will it hurt if i do lightfall before witch queen? I really want strand

[slim girder]

Not really. The events of witch queen and lightfall aren't really connected at all.

[agile field]

yeah i did realize that, the events of the campaigns arent connected

[slim girder]

It's more the in between stuff with the seasons that connected the story together.
In the destinations tab if you go to the top right you can have a look at the timeline if you're interested in how the story looked in between the expansions.

[agile field]

yeah i see the seasons, is it a dlc per year?

[slim girder]

It was. Now though we are going to be getting 2 smaller DLCs a year and each of those will come with a season and a free content update.

[agile field]

kk, tysm for the help btw :3

[slim girder]

Final shape is the end of the "light and darkness saga" so now we're beginning a new one which is starting with edge of fate. So a lot of change is happening in the game and the world.

[slim girder]

Np.

[agile field]

so there will be more than 6 subcvlasses? Damn

[slim girder]

We have no clue. I don't believe any new subclasses are coming anytime soon but we never know.

[agile field]

oh alright then

[slim girder]

Edge of fate has us using our powers to manipulate dark matter which gives us new ways to explore. For example matterspark lets you turn into a mini ball of arc light and move through pipes and stuff

[agile field]

damn thats cool af

is the final shape worth?

[dapper moss]

best expansion in the game bar none

amazing story and great content

[agile field]

on my country its 190, rn is for 47

[slim girder]

Lots of sales going on rn so try to find the cheapest one.

Final shape will also give you access to prismatic which is really fun.

[copper egret]

late to the party on this but probably not unless they want to introduce it in some weird and hopefully really unique way. bungo loves the number 7 and 3 light, 3 dark, and prismatic would give them that 7 they love. as of right now though no one except the hamster in the wheel of bungie's creative department knows if we will ever get that last subclass.
if any of this is wrong feel free to correct, not up to date on my facts but i believe at least like 90% of what i said is true

[agile field]

so basically, final shape is a completion on the light and dark story?

[slim girder]

Yes. As I said it's the end of the light and darkness saga.

Edge of fate is the beginning of what bungie is calling the "fate saga"

[agile field]

oh ok

do we kill the witness?

[slim girder]

Yes. Final shape has us doing that but I won't spoil unless you ask because that final confrontation is so damn good.

[agile field]

oh ok

it makes me more excited to buy it xd

also who are the cabal?

[slim girder]

Another alien species. Think Alien Vikings they love to conquer and hold massive banquets. They also pride themselves on honour and trials through combat.

[agile field]

oh ok

[slim girder]

War is part of who they are as a people. Their mantra is "we eat the mountains, we drink the seas"

[agile field]

also in beyond light, the witness is coming to attack the last city, is that it?

[slim girder]

At the time of beyond light not yet. But it was our first interaction with darkness powers of stasis and our mission is to stop eramis who has been building a house of fallen and arming them with darkness to destroy the traveler (great machine as they call it)

[agile field]

lightfall* 😭

[slim girder]

Lightfall is where the witness truly arrives yes

[agile field]

and the witch queen is beccause savathun gets access to the light yes?

[slim girder]

Yes.

[agile field]

oh ok, tysm again!!

[slim girder]

All good

[agile field]

what is the veil?

all i know is that its important xd

why doesnt the game explain these things

goddamn

[dapper moss]

it was explained, in a seasonal story that doesnt exist anymore

lmao

[agile field]

BRUH

i hate this 😭

[dapper moss]

the veil is like

uhhhh

@trim grotto

[agile field]

a veil?

[dapper moss]

help me out here

[agile field]

sorry for asking too much

[dapper moss]

think of it kind of like the traveler, but for darkness

kind of

but not really

[agile field]

hmm

[dapper moss]

it isn't sentient

or at least not to my knowledge

[agile field]

it seems sus lol

[agile field]

what are the takens?

are they witness army?

[jagged badge]

Beings who have been stripped of their will and have it replaced by that of the one who Took them/the one who currently commands the Taken

[agile field]

who is the one?

[blazing wasp]

varies, we've had many

[agile field]

we did? 😭

[blazing wasp]

oryx, riven, the witness, naem

[queen swallow]

Oryx used to command the Taken. Now it's someone known as The Lord of Every Nothing. We don't know who that is yet.

[blazing wasp]

"we've had" not as in we have

we have never controlled any

[agile field]

yeah i understood

but like when in the story does oryx and riven get cited?

[queen swallow]

Oryx was de facto as the Taken King

[blazing wasp]

oryx from when he kills akka, to his initial death

[queen swallow]

Hence the D1 expansion name

[agile field]

oh its d1

[blazing wasp]

oh and xivu at one point i think?

[queen swallow]

Riven controlled them during Forsaken, I believe

[agile field]

never played d1, is it important to the story?

[frigid sparrow]

moreso a "what" than a "who," we know that it is the lord of every nothing, but we have no idea what the fuck that means

[queen swallow]

It's the foundation of the game, so yeah. But D1 was heavily criticized for the lack of actual story in the game. Almost all of it was told through Grimoire cards that you had to go to a website to read.

Now in D2, there are much better systems like the lore books

[agile field]

oh ok

[trim grotto]

I am in bed and there are dogs sleeping with me
I cannot move
I shall answer any questions @agile field has but in like a couple of hours or some such

[dapper moss]

a cruel fate

[agile field]

alrighty i completely understand XD

my main question is what is the veil?

[agile field]

are the vex allied to calus and everyone?

[dapper moss]

no

the vex don’t really concern themselves with allegiances, though the witness did some funky shit to get them kinda sorta on their side

[agile field]

because it seems like the vex in on the witness's side

[dapper moss]

the way i understand it is that they have a common enemy

[agile field]

makes sense

[dim minnow]

the Veil is the Darkness equivalent to the Traveler

[agile field]

what does witness get by stealing the veil?

[dim minnow]

it is also believed to be a missing part of the Gardener (Traveler)

[dim minnow]

the Witness didn't want to steal it per se

it wanted to create a link between it and the Traveler

[agile field]

so that she could control light as well?

[dim minnow]

which would allow it to enter the Traveler's Pale Heart which would allow it to claim the Traveler's power and, with its own immense Darkness, would be able to enact the Final Shape

[agile field]

what is the pale heart? Is it the traveler's insides?

[frigid sparrow]

considering that's the physical space we go into for final shape, essentially yeah

[agile field]

interesting

imma buy final shape ngl

[dim minnow]

it's a realm of infinite potential that lies within the Traveler

[agile field]

damn

[cold onyx]

Is Kepler in the sol system

[dim minnow]

yes

it is in the Oort Cloud

[cold onyx]

How far is that from leaving sol

[queen swallow]

Technically, we don't actually know if the Oort cloud is real, though it is highly likely it is

[dim minnow]

I think they said it's the farthest we've ever gone yet

[queen swallow]

Man, the Nine must really hate Jimmy Carter or something

Or really like him

[cold onyx]

And who is Lodi exactly

He was mentioned in VH

[queen swallow]

For context, we're shown in one of the trailers that the Voyager 1 probe is just out in the Oort cloud, which is where it should be after about 300 years real time. Given that it's been more than that in-game and it's still there tells me the Nine did something to it, or Kepler's singularity did. And Jimmy Carter has a speech on Voyager's Golden Disk

[dim minnow]

we don't know much about him yet

[cold onyx]

Wait are real history is in this game like with names

[queen swallow]

Elaborate

[cold onyx]

Jimmy Carter

[queen swallow]

One of the best presidents but what about him?

[cold onyx]

He’s in destiny lore

[queen swallow]

I'm making a joke more or less that could be true depending how much Bungie decides to take it

The real Voyager 1 has a disk on it with a recording of 39th U.S. President Jimmy Carter on it. I don't know if Bungie's Voyager 1 also has that same disk on it, but probably likely.

[blazing wasp]

Destiny is a sci-fi fantasy hypothetical future.

i believe the time the traveler arrived is somewhat close to modern day.

[queen swallow]

We have a specific day

The day the game launched is canonically when the Traveler was first spotted

[waxen cedar]

***```diff
+leaving this here and saying
-nothing...

```ini
[juicy lore though...]
```***

[queen swallow]

Not the strangest fanfic I've read but I'll go with it

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/charm-charming-blink-blinking-wink-gif-16685104

[slow berry]

are his potions only for the strongest beings and savathun was of the weakest

[slim girder]

I love how in basically all space media everyone bullies pluto and doesn't even put it on the charts in sol.

[feral wraith]

So im finishing up Final Shape campaign and I've been wondering about Crows wish to bring back Cayde. Couldn't Crow have wished back Sundance to revive Cayde? Bypassing Caydes guilt and sadness, also, we know that with Cayde brought back he's "made" of light, so Sundance would've been brought back as "light" like how ghosts are born

[frigid sparrow]

Crow indirectly wished for Cayde to come back to life. It's not directly stated in the campaign, but the means for his wish was actually in a sparrow lore tab

[jaunty wing]

@feral wraith perhaps.

Quit thinking like a gamer and trying beat/solve the narrative.

[feral wraith]

I mean im not trying to beat the narrative, just genuinely curious. Like is there a reason ghosts cant be wished back, like they cant be fixed or anything, but just if a wish could do it

[jaunty wing]

@feral wraith

There isn't as far as I know a reason that a wish couldn't restore a ghost.

[frigid sparrow]

erm so me when I lie (it's actually the ship)

"Remorse and recriminations," Mara says absently. She turns her eyes toward him. "If you could go back, alter the course of your history, what would you change?"

He can't help but laugh. "Where to begin?" Crow muses with a smirk. It fades soon enough. "Cayde," he whispers.

Mara raises an eyebrow. "Oh?"

"Before then, I could have taken a different road. But once I pulled that trigger…" He shakes his head. "Everything else, I can set right. But not that. I just wish I could tell him I shouldn't have done it."

"I see," Mara murmurs. Her eyes shine in the starlight.

Crow sighs and rolls his shoulders back. "I should get going. Vanguard's waiting on my report."
via unforseen consequences

riven pulled one last silly before crow had entered the pale heart which allowed cayde's specific presence

[feral wraith]

Got it, so he technically wished him back, but didnt realize it

[mild junco]

How do the vex pro-create? Do they just sorta grow?

[slow berry]

vex cows

[frigid sparrow]

like amoeba

but like, angry