📚lore-discussion

[queen swallow]

Also, given the Collapse, wouldn’t it’ve likely been destroyed?

[low gyro]

Who knows, hard to say in a fictional world

[hard sigil]

that excerpt is pre-collapse but it's likely any major city was destroyed or VERY heavily damaged

[low gyro]

But hypothetically if it did, it's really just a symbol and not the actual thing being worshipped so if people just remember where the location is, should be enough

[sick yew]

I really hope that Bungie decides to make each of the Nine into prevelant characters so I can reference this video every time people discuss who they like the most

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giS0BrfXUmM

[slim girder]

Part of me is hoping for some 7 deadly sins type stuff where each member of the nine represents or behaves drastically different from each other.

Like one is all about prosperity and the other is all about war or something

[hard sigil]

they definitely have distinct personalities

but I don't think they're going to be exaggerated like that

[slim girder]

So far we haven't heard the nine speak in an audible way. Just through subtitles in different formats. I know they are space dust but do hope one day we possibly have a member of the nine speaking directly.

||EoF gameplay shows then communicating through some eliksni terminals on Kepler||

[sick yew]

Imma be real I just wanted to make a stupid reference to one of my favorite shitposts

[slim girder]

It would still be funny either way

[mild junco]

Correct me if im wrong, but isn't 85% of nessus just vex made? Including the wildlife?

[trim grotto]

Ghost: All the foliage around this access point is somehow augmenting its firewall. I thought the trees were mostly organic, but… just add this to the pile of things we don't understand about the Vex.
Failsafe: A robotic alien entity called the Vex have achieved 92.014 percent conversion of the Centaur Nessus.

The statistics of 92% was also back in the Red War 7 years ago

[queen swallow]

So they’ve made 0.014% progress in 7 years?

Slackers

Not like we’ve been stopping them or anything

[slow berry]

the remaining 8% is failsafe and fallen

[queen swallow]

And the Cabal

[slow berry]

nah those are vex too

[queen swallow]

Carl?

[analog torrent]

Why are the simplified Chinese loretabs shittier than the traditional Chinese loretabs

HOIL loretab is the most prominent example of this

[trim grotto]

No no haha
I mean the whole excerpt was 7 years ago

[vocal relic]

Where are/are there still those rogue guardians called dredgen i think? Are they till cannon?

[trim grotto]

Nothing has become non canon. Except Destiny Rising.

The title of Dredgen is something that Shin Malphur and Drifter secretly worked to reclaim from those who once held it, which is why we use it as the Gambit title.
Originally they were followers of Dredgen Yor.

In time, Shin took a new persona and created a group called the Shadows of Yor - people willing to attempt to surpass the power of Yor, and fully give themselves to the corrupting power. Shin used this group as a way to take out those Shadows who dived too deep.

As for the new Dredgens? Learning to balance Dark and harness it without corruption was the point, and became a foundation for our eventual mastery of Stasis.

This was a pretty rough summary but I'm on mobile and short of time haha

[river creek]

I've heard that strand was supposedly meant to be obtained in Witch Queen, and Lightfall was meant to be what now is The Final Shape. So I'm wondering, is there any known reason as to why we got strand in Lightfall instead of Witch Queen? Also, do we know why Lightfall is a disconnected mess? I would assume all of this was for money.

[echo gorge]

I mean companies are made to make money; Witch Queen was a massive expansion, Strand probably wasn’t working properly at the time. Lightfall was a lukewarm expansion that had to fill the void

[distant oyster]

Because bread taste better than key

[river creek]

What?

[dim minnow]

according to someone (may have been Joe Blackburn) this is false

the main piece of evidence I'm using for this is the fact that the devs stated that Strand concepts didn't start with the thread design motif

a bunch of concepts were thrown around before they decided on the main idea for Strand

[trim grotto]

Per Strand: It wasn't.

Per Lightfall: management overrides. Things changed direction and feel.

[vale viper]

strand wasn't in Witch Queen but whatever it was called before being renamed to strand, was

"infection rounds"

deep sight in Witch Queen having the exact same animation as the strand supers, just in different colors

[sick yew]

?

[vale viper]

Saying strand wasn't in Witch Queen and "always meant for Lightfall" is not actually lying if you just rename it

[sick yew]

What does this mean

[vale viper]

Deep sight literally has a 3rd eye animation for your character

Just like the strand supers

[sick yew]

Deepsight is one animation

[sick yew]

I'm not sure if I consider the 2nd one a '3rd eye'

Or if that even was their intention

[vale viper]

It started as one thing and then became strand

The original idea became deep sight

[sick yew]

Uhuh and how would strand have fit into the wq stroy

[vale viper]

Beats me

[little gorge]

if it was intended for witch queen why would bungie do all that to cover it up

like it's some conspiracy

[vale viper]

Bungie literally steals art

Multiple times

[sick yew]

How does one correlate to the other?

[vale viper]

And lied, more than once, about throttling experience

[little gorge]

so they are constantly lying no matter what

what are you even on about

[vale viper]

And how often to devs admit or make public their original scraped plans

[little gorge]

pretty often actually

[sick yew]

A lot? Just look at all the concept art that exists

[vale viper]

Did they ever even say what the original plot to destiny 1 was

[little gorge]

we quite literally have the scrapped tfs ending

[vale viper]

Or what "infestation rounds" were

[sick yew]

Yes they even showed us the scrapped cutscene with Uldren

[vale viper]

And then what

[sick yew]

Idk idgaf about d1 but im sure with years of interviews you'll get a pretty clear idea

I'm still not exactly seeing the point youre trying to make

[vale viper]

What is infested rounds

[sick yew]

Probably unraveling rounds

[little gorge]

for what you're saying to be true they'd have to intentionally change the name before lightfall only so that if asked in the future they could technically deny it without lying

[dapper moss]

infested could be the renamed unraveling wounds

thats just a placeholder name

[vale viper]

thats from witch Queen

not Lightfall

[dapper moss]

yes

pre lightfall

[vale viper]

So strand then

[dapper moss]

when strand would have still been in development

so a placeholder

[vale viper]

when developing witch Queen

[dapper moss]

yes? do you know how long game development takes?

[little gorge]

they were not developing guardian ranks when making witch queen

at least probably not the text for them

[dapper moss]

they were developing champion stunning

[vale viper]

That's all I've said, no idea why you're arguing then?

[little gorge]

you've said that bungie intentionally changed the name for strand so they can cover up it initially being in wq without lying

[dapper moss]

even pierce trait is a placeholder, as its taken from wishender

strand was absolutely indev during witchqueen

[vale viper]

I never said that

[dapper moss]

you think they just brought up the witness while having no idea where the story would go after that?

[little gorge]

quite literally

[vale viper]

"intentionally" "so they can cover it up"

[dapper moss]

theyve planned the story 4 years in advance

[vale viper]

so no, not quite literally

[dapper moss]

its not out of the question to think theve planned the game mechanics and story beats about them

[little gorge]

so they just did that and unintentionally lied about it not being planned for witch queen

[vale viper]

nope, just didn't have to tell you

they never lied. It wasn't called strand so stand was never in Witch Queen

[little gorge]

so you don't think bungie lied about anything you just brought up them being art thieves and liars for no rrason

[vale viper]

Corporate speak be like that

[little gorge]

i think that's obviously an intentionally unhelpful answer

[vale viper]

Thats what they did

[little gorge]

why

[vale viper]

They answered without actually lying

[little gorge]

why would they go to the effort of doing that

[vale viper]

The effort was just answering the question

[little gorge]

yes why would they answer that question like that

[vale viper]

Beats me

[little gorge]

so you choose to believe that that's what happened when you can't even justify it

because of a random text string in a triumph

[vale viper]

I dont have to justify it

Both can still be true. It was originally supposed to be in Witch Queen when it was originally called something else and after it got delayed, it became strand when they put it in Lightfall

So strand as you currently know it, was always meant for Lightfall

[little gorge]

again they would have to intentionally be unhelpful with their answer for that to be true

[vale viper]

No they don't

[little gorge]

any reasonable person would say "yes but it wasn't called strand"

[vale viper]

All they had to do is say the truth

Strand was always meant for Lightfall, that is true

[little gorge]

you choose to believe this ungrounded and convoluted story rather than the very simple explanation that the whole thing was a baseless rumor

occam's razor

[vale viper]

Not really

he also said strand "needed more time"

and replaced it with the light rework

that was the whole point

since they knew releasing Witch Queen without "new supers" would make people mad

and originally , it dlc plans was only Witch Queen and Lightfall.

[sick yew]

'Originally' is a relative term

In d1 they weren't planning for d2

[sick yew]

In shadowkeep they weren't planning for the witness by the way it seemed

Etc

[sick yew]

I'm unsure what youre trying to say

[vale viper]

Lol

Ok

[dapper moss]

i mean do you not realize that the “weavers” in the final mission of witch queen were supposed to be hints at strand

[vale viper]

Bungie always intended for us to finally find another super randomly in a street

[dapper moss]

obviously the idea wasnt fully fleshed out but that is what they were doing with them

[vale viper]

Very cool

[dapper moss]

i mean, yeah

[vale viper]

Years of development

Couldn't decide which street

[sick yew]

Surely youre just messing around

[vale viper]

Stand. Street. Get it

Both have S

[sick yew]

[vale viper]

Always meant to be

Putting it in Witch Queen made even less sense

[hard sigil]

you know "brood" just means a family unit of insects. there's no intentional relation between those two

[dapper moss]

i mean…

[vale viper]

See what i mean

Brood connection, zero sense. Putting it in the street randomly. Perfect sense

[dapper moss]

brood connection makes all sense

every hive god has a brood

what are we talking about

[sick yew]

Okay so are youre telling me they intended for strand to be part of wq but they decided to delay that to Lightfall and rewrite it's entire story but kept those wizards at the end the same?

[dapper moss]

no i’m joking

[vale viper]

Just like Lightfall campaign was perfection

[sick yew]

Thank god

[dapper moss]

although i will admit the threadweavers are kind of strand-y, they were meant to be more like weaving a veil in the sky of savathuns throne world, not the veil through strand

its just a coincidence that they happened to borrow that aesthetic choice

notice i said threadweavers, the broodweavers are an entirely different thing

[vale viper]

They delayed Lightfall to the point they had to create another dlc, everything got delayed, except strand

That was delivered right on time

Exactly as intended

The bungie way

(nothing else ever was)

[dapper moss]

no, they were developing lightfall at the same time as they were finalizing witch queen

just as they were developing final shape at the same time they were finalizing lightfall

[vale viper]

They said themselves they had to delay it

[dapper moss]

this is like saying that because the veil is pink, they intended to release prismatic in lightfall

[dapper moss]

yes, and they were developing it for a long timr

the stories dont fit together at all and they have had the stories mapped out for YEARS in advance

[vale viper]

Lol

[dapper moss]

it was always intended to be a separate expansion

those are parameters that do not change

[vale viper]

That explains all the stuff that got left in Witch Queen when strand got delayed

Couldn't remove everything since it takes a long time

And why you just randomly get it in Lightfall because they didn't have enough time to put in proper

Just playing the bloody dlc speaks for itself

You can barely even swing around on neomuna with strand

[dapper moss]

literally what are you talking about

neomuna is quite literally the only destination you can “swing around” with strand

[vale viper]

What the fuck

oh, they put those little things

Haha

[little gorge]

you guys are still talking about this 😭

[vale viper]

The same things you have to summon in Witch Queen with "deep sight" but platforms

totally different

Which you can skip them all with strand

Hive magic can manipulate reality, called the Weave, hence Threadbound

Hunter strand super called Threadcutter

[dapper moss]

thats also just

not what its called

but ok

[shrewd ravine]

This game has so much damn lore

[vale viper]

thread.... runner

[shrewd ravine]

Where do I start..

[queen swallow]

https://youtu.be/zzBmOeYmN_M?si=1AXiS7IqbIqJTfT6

Or the shorter https://youtu.be/2k970tSgnuo?si=cjdWhAVlVeEmLMP2

If you’d rather read it, though it’ll be less complete, there is also the entirety of the Ishtar Collective website

It has a copy of I think every single lore entry in the game

[vale viper]

so we spent whole mission breaking into a pyramid ship to commune to a darkness statue, just to get deep sight

only to find strand just chilling in the middle of the street

[river creek]

Why tf did my msg cause a 50 minute conversation that accomplished jacked shit

[dapper moss]

i dont think this guy realizes that strand takes the entire lightfall campaign to unlock

[river creek]

It's just lore knower vs. immovable object

[vale viper]

very cool

best part of the game

[dapper moss]

fr man

ive accomplished nothing

[vale viper]

I learned so much about strand having to just buy the unlocks

[vale viper]

the witch Queen buff called unraveling

[hard sigil]

Strand was more visible on Neomuna due to the Veil's presence

[river creek]

You don't get it do you?

anyone know what the image is?

[dapper moss]

strand does exist everywhere and has existed everywhere since even before witch queen

it just became a playable subclass and major story element in lightfall because, aforementioned veil and neomuna

hive magic is very closely tied with strand as well

[river creek]

Actually?

[hard sigil]

there's a lore tab that implies that hive can innately see the weave

[river creek]

Oh

[dapper moss]

the deep/darkness/strand are all closely connected to the strength of will and darkness

[hard sigil]

but other than that, a lot of hive magic is based in manifesting through thought, and the weave is the web of consciousness

[vale viper]

play the mission to kill savathun as a hunter so you can use strand super called Threadrunner with the Threadcutter buff

hmmmm

[dapper moss]

the super is called silkstrike

[vale viper]

the super

[dapper moss]

cast the super in game and tell me what it says in the bottom left

[hard sigil]

local guardian can't believe two separate concepts can both have the word thread in their name

[river creek]

It's literal fucking threads on the traveler, you're not onto something, you're too scared to admit you're wrong

[vale viper]

Its funnier making you guys say it

[hard sigil]

Savathûn was weaving what is essentially a magic net to bring the traveller into her throne world

[river creek]

elaborate

[dapper moss]

next level ragebait from this guy im ngl

[river creek]

fr

[dapper moss]

he realized he was wrong ages ago

[hard sigil]

real

[vale viper]

Lmao

[hard sigil]

I'm entertaining it because I like talking about the hive

[river creek]

We've awoken the Hive...

[dapper moss]

love hive lore

[vale viper]

Threads of what? Hive magic?

[dapper moss]

heresy was awesome

[river creek]

threads

[vale viper]

What does that mean

[dapper moss]

does that look like strand to you man

no

[vale viper]

Are those threads different from these other threads

[dapper moss]

those are the threads in the witch queen

[hard sigil]

it's visual design because hive have insectoid motifs and savathûn is like. a giant moth. moths which weave cocoons of silk

[vale viper]

What about unraveling buff

[dapper moss]

you are

unraveling

the threads

[vale viper]

And my unraveling rounds

[dapper moss]

threadcutter

you are cutting

the threads

[hard sigil]

are unrelated

[dapper moss]

unravels people from the weave

completely unrelated

[vale viper]

Lots of unrelated things using the exact same verbiage

[hard sigil]

correct

[vale viper]

Even the same color

[dapper moss]

yes, because hive magic and strand share very similar properties and lore implications

[vale viper]

hmmm

[hard sigil]

hive magic has always been green

[dapper moss]

but they are not literally the same thing

[vale viper]

I see

[dapper moss]

crota is literally

highlighter green

[hard sigil]

because it's soulfire

[vale viper]

I never said they weren't green

[dapper moss]

you think hes in bladefury?

[river creek]

we know

[dapper moss]

like what

[vale viper]

So maybe the new green super was somehow related to hive magic in the dlc a hive god gained light magic

[dapper moss]

“new green super”

what are you talking about

[vale viper]

if you can't

[dapper moss]

strand is not related to hive magic directly, it’s related to the darkness

[river creek]

what green super are you talking about?

[dapper moss]

the darkness is also related to hive magic tangentially

due to the worms and the deep

[vale viper]

infested rounds

[dapper moss]

a placeholder name

[vale viper]

yes

are you just guessing?

[dapper moss]

i am a game dev, i know a placeholder name when i see one

[vale viper]

so guessing

[river creek]

wait warframe and destiny are connected because in Destiny theres a buff called infested rounds and in Warframe theres a faction called infested

😱

[dapper moss]

well no, it literally is a placeholder name

it is the in dev name for unraveling wounds

they are the exact same thing

theres even a strand symbol next to it

[vale viper]

just gotta take your word for it

[dapper moss]

why do i try

[vale viper]

broodweaver threadrunner

unrelated

[dapper moss]

yes

well no

[vale viper]

why are they called that anyways

[dapper moss]

the broodweaver IS using strand

they are very related

[vale viper]

also unrelated to the Weave

[dapper moss]

no, very related to the weave

they are using strand

they are manipulating the weave

[vale viper]

the hive part is the unrelated part

[river creek]

whats lymphoma

[dapper moss]

again hive magic and the weave are tangentially related as they are both manifestations of thought and will

[dapper moss]

a type of cancer

[river creek]

oh damn

[dapper moss]

white blood cell cancer to be specific

[river creek]

that doesn't sound good

[dapper moss]

it’s highly treatable 🙂

i’ll be okay

[river creek]

oh

nice

well

as nice as it could be

[vale viper]

Ir Anûk, the Weaver, and Ir Halak, the Unraveler,

also unrelated

[hard sigil]

broodweaver is a subclass focused on weaving a brood of threadlings. threadrunner is a subclass focused on using threads for high mobility

[vale viper]

killing savathun you need Threadcutter buff

for no reason, totally unrelated

[hard sigil]

to cut the threads of her spell

[vale viper]

unrelated threads

[hard sigil]

yes

I'm glad you understand that

[vale viper]

years of game development

[dapper moss]

what is your endgame here

what are you trying to prove

[hard sigil]

they're allowed to use the concept of string as a metaphor more than once

[vale viper]

the truth

or even just speculating

[trim grotto]

This isn't even lore anymore, even were you correct.

[vale viper]

But when it's multiple times, it kinda tells you something

[hard sigil]

not really?

[trim grotto]

It doesn't.

[vale viper]

so you don't like, think

or notice things

[trim grotto]

Yes. You're definitely the only person with any intellect. You're so right and smart.

But do we have any actual lore topics on hand?

[vale viper]

So you're telling me, when you played Lightfall

that was perfect

makes sense to me

[hard sigil]

they're similar in concept because of the similarity between strand and hive magic but that's as far as it goes

[vale viper]

and not once you never thought it would've made more sense this way

it kinda feels like it was

[dapper moss]

what is “this way”

[trim grotto]

I do not care for what did not happen.

It didn't happen the way you believe it should have, so it means nothing to me now.

[vale viper]

well you're cool

[hard sigil]

yes, actually. a power based on manipulating the web of consciousness found focused in The Most Populated Area in the solar system, which also houses the paracausal artifact that is known for manipulating consciousness DOES make sense

[vale viper]

Literally first person I've ever seen say that

[dapper moss]

no

[vale viper]

Ask anyone outside of discord

[vale viper]

Unraveling the unseen

Deep sight

[hard sigil]

sure, if you've literally only played the campaign of lightfall and never interacted with any of the post campaign lore I can understand why you would come to the conclusion that it doesn't make sense, but that's on you for not looking into it more

[dapper moss]

“outside of discord” most people who play destiny don’t know its lore outside of a base surface level at all, you included

[vale viper]

That says it all

[hard sigil]

deep sight is a power based in memory. the stuff that it reveals isn't "unseen" it's just literally not there anymore, but it was in the past

[dapper moss]

what that something makes little sense when you have no context or dont make an effort to try to understand it? yes it does

[vale viper]

Memory and conscious. Different but not that different

[hard sigil]

so you admit that they're different and therefore can manifest in different ways

[dim minnow]

nevermind the fact Bungie themselves told us that Strand was made for Lightfall and not WQ

[vale viper]

Both are bringing thoughts into reality

[vale viper]

Correct

Wasn't originally called strand

So the statement is factually correct

[dapper moss]

what was it originally called then

[vale viper]

Good question

[dapper moss]

they refer to the ENTIRE IDEA of strand not being intended for witch queen

not just the technicality of the name of the subclass

[vale viper]

Probably

the whole hive magic was probably different

[hard sigil]

not to mention the entire like. design of the subclass. visually and from a gameplay standpoint, wouldn't make sense if it was unrelated to the concept of strand as we know it

[vale viper]

Hence threads and unraveling being completely unrelated

now

[vale viper]

design not that different

[dapper moss]

not even remotely the same animation btw

[dim minnow]

hell, you can argue that the "vapor" leaks from before WQ's release were referring to Deepsight

[hard sigil]

bright like on eyes = same thing apparently

[vale viper]

yeah its almost like ones a super and ones just the poor mans deep sight

both give a "3rd eye" for no reason

Unrelated eyes

[dapper moss]

all supers give you a big glowing eye

what

they literally all do that

[vale viper]

What's the eye dor nova bomb

[dapper moss]

its not actually an eye, but its a glow of light

look at a warlocks head when they cast a nova bomb

or a sentinel shields head when they cast sentinel shield

[dapper moss]

or a hunters head when they cast golden gun

[vale viper]

I don't see any eyes

[dapper moss]

these are renders

not in game screenshots

[dapper moss]

the one above is an in game screenshot

[dapper moss]

big glow on the staff, its in the eye when they cast it

[vale viper]

the eye is on the head

not on staff

that glows because thats what you shoot stasis from

[dapper moss]

do you just not play pvp

when theres someone whos popped their super running at you, you can see a big ass glowing spot running straight at you

[sudden cedar]

(to be fair, that's mostly gameplay design. Same reason people with heavy weapons have glowy heads in PVP)

[dapper moss]

i know

thats what im trying to say

it isnt some weird nod to it being a “third eye”

its just that every super has a glowy spot usually on the head

[dapper moss]

the strand screenshot is mid-sprint

thats why the arms are like that

and i already explained the eye thing

so youre onto nothing here

[vale viper]

What about hunters super that makes them invisible

[dapper moss]

they glow as they swipe at you

and also, big flash of light when they pop it

wheres the flash? their head

[vale viper]

so not a big ass glowing spot

[dapper moss]

well yes, because theyre fucking invisible

[vale viper]

so..

[dapper moss]

but again all the other supers have a glowing spot

spectral blades and nova warp included

[vale viper]

deep sight isn't a super

[dapper moss]

yes, deepsight is an ability that glows

do you know what else is an ability that you use that glows?

[vale viper]

with a very specific extra glow spot on the forehead

for no reason

[dapper moss]

no, deepsight is very explicitly a third eye

the supers, are not

[dapper moss]

the glow is not even centered half the time

[vale viper]

sounds like the original idea was scrapped

[dapper moss]

what is the original idea

[vale viper]

good question

[dapper moss]

no literally what does that mean

[vale viper]

how would I know

[dapper moss]

what idea was scrapped and where

deepsight?

you cant just say “sounds like the idea was scrapped”

like what are you referring to

[vale viper]

commune with darkness statue in a statue pyramid, must be for something sweet and powerful

ability to see platforms

very cool

[dapper moss]

???

how is being able to see platforms cooler than

stasis?

like

the entirety of the stasis subclass?

[dim minnow]

deepsight does more than that

[vale viper]

the random super we find in the middle of the street is much cooler than the garbage we got from the darkness statue we communed with

[dapper moss]

also i was ant to say that

[dapper moss]

what are you refereing to here

[dim minnow]

Deepsight is the reason we beat Savathun in WQ

[dapper moss]

we commune with strand, yes but we dont master it at all

[vale viper]

would've been much cooler if we killed her with strand

[dapper moss]

we microdose strand just as we microdose deepsight throughout wq

[dapper moss]

you can literally do this, just play the witch queen on strand

[vale viper]

Darkness Hive god with light trying to kill us, we fight back with darkness/hive magic

[dapper moss]

we do fight back with hive magic

its called deepsight

[dim minnow]

Deepsight isn't really Hive Magic

it's a Darkness power

akin to Stasis and Strand

[vale viper]

Being of darkness wielding the light vs being of light wielding darkness

much cooler

[dapper moss]

thats exactly what we’re doing

read above

[dim minnow]

well yeah... that's exactly what happened

were you not paying attention?

[vale viper]

But deep sight

[dim minnow]

yeah

it's Darkness

[vale viper]

very cool

[dapper moss]

i agree

it is

[vale viper]

No super

[dim minnow]

we used Deepsight to put Savathun off balance which allowed us to beat her

[vale viper]

Yeah i totally noticed

The power was just deep within me, i just never noticed

[dapper moss]

neither was the nightmare defeating power we used in shadowkeep

[vale viper]

Too busy with this actual super i randomly found

[dapper moss]

do you want that to be a super too

[vale viper]

Way more powerful

It does kinda the same things as deep sight but even better

[dapper moss]

it doesnt do the same thing as deepsight, like, at all

but okay

functionally

gameplay wise

[vale viper]

Thoughts are totally different than memories after all

[dapper moss]

its like an entirely different thing

in the game

[vale viper]

Memories exist where?

[dapper moss]

but in the lore, its very closely connected

[vale viper]

In our thoughts?

[dapper moss]

do you not see what im trying to say here

[vale viper]

Lmao

[dim minnow]

I understand what you were wanting here, but it just sounds like hype moments and aura with no good writing

[vale viper]

I do appreciate going with it

But my mind has not changed

[dim minnow]

Strand embodies the psychic link between all living things

[vale viper]

I'm telling you

[dim minnow]

while Deepsight is tied to memory

[vale viper]

and how does it bring memory into reality

[dim minnow]

Strand allows one to connect directly to the flow and thoughts of others allowing them a sort of precognition comparable to a jedi

[vale viper]

But can't do it to other thoughts

[dim minnow]

while Deepsight lets one look into the past for answers

[vale viper]

But aren't all thoughts basically memories

hey i just thought about something
What?
I dont remember

Mission failed, didn't have the deep sight so you forgot

[dim minnow]

according to what I'm reading online, no they are not

thoughts can be made from memories, but that doesn't mean they are the same

[vale viper]

how does one pull from memory if not from past thoughts

[dapper moss]

the second a thought goes into the past it becomes a memory

it is no longer a thought

[vale viper]

so literally all thoughts

[dapper moss]

the thing that makes thoughts thoughts, is their presence

[dim minnow]

we're heading into very subjective territory here

[vale viper]

basically its the same difference

[dim minnow]

well no

you think "I am going to eat Subway later"
that is a thought, but not a memory

maybe the thought is shaped by memories

like maybe your decision to eat Subway later is influenced by an ad you remember seeing or something like that

[vale viper]

Having thoughts without memory is functionally impossible

[dim minnow]

the ability to think allows one to process memories

[vale viper]

if you forgot every thought the moment it becomes a memory, you'd be catatonic and just poop on yourself all day

Which makes them one in the same

[dim minnow]

there is a distinction

[vale viper]

Memory is essentially thought in past tense

[dim minnow]

to say they are the same is reductive

[dapper moss]

that doesnt make them the same thing?

it just makes them essentially symbiotically related

[dim minnow]

molecules are made up of atoms, but that does not mean molecules are atoms

[vale viper]

Memory is a recollection of thoughts

without thought, how would you even remember

having the ability to materialize past thoughts then by consequence you must have the ability to materialize thoughts to begin with

Or what, can't bring your current thoughts into reality instantaneously, but i can a microsecond later

[dapper moss]

you miss the point that you are not materializing your own memories

[vale viper]

what a rip off

[dapper moss]

just memories that exist within the space of what deepsight allows you to see

[vale viper]

call your titan friend for a quick favor

[hard sigil]

darkness as a overarching concept deals in the immaterial. everything that uses it will have something to do with the concept of cognition

just as much as the light deals in different forms of physical energy

[vale viper]

Strand and deep sight is specifically consciousness

[hard sigil]

the difference between arc and solar energy isn't much. they're both plasma

[vale viper]

Stasis isn't

[hard sigil]

stasis is willpower and self-control

[dapper moss]

stasis is a manifestation of will

the motif of “breaking free” from stasis runs parallel to us “going with the flow” of strand

[vale viper]

Completely different than conscious thoughts

[dapper moss]

yes, but immaterial

[vale viper]

that covers a lot

[dapper moss]

willpower and self control are also conscious thoughts

[vale viper]

Those are concepts

[dapper moss]

so are memories

[hard sigil]

consciousness, memory and willpower are all parts that make the whole of sentience

[vale viper]

Memory is nothing like a concept

[hard sigil]

just like how radiation, energy and gravity are the parts that make the whole of matter

[dapper moss]

the concept of memory as is explored by deepsight, i mean

[vale viper]

You can literally strap a specific computer that exists today and see on a screen peoples dreams

and predict their choices based on their brain activity

[hard sigil]

what has that got to do with anything

[vale viper]

That memory isn't a concept

[dapper moss]

the concept of memory as a whole

[hard sigil]

what's your definition of "concept" as a word

[vale viper]

an idea

[dapper moss]

not memories as concepts individually

[vale viper]

But these things are observable

[hard sigil]

and so saying that "you can read brain waves and transpose those as images" makes the idea invalid? in my opinion that makes it provable

[dapper moss]

strand stasis and deepsight are also very observable

if that invalidates anything

(it doesn’t)

[hard sigil]

made visible by paracausal sources is the important part

[vale viper]

Yeah but stasis is much further in difference from deep sight and strand than they are to each other

[hard sigil]

are they not allowed to be?

[vale viper]

strand and deep sight is essentially saying the same thing twice

[dapper moss]

visibly, deepsight and strand couldnt be further from each ither

deepsight is just a bunch of floating platforms

and symbols

strand is full on strings and silk of weave and grapples

whats your point

[vale viper]

if only we got strand a couple weeks earlier

we could've outright ignored deep sight

[dapper moss]

the concepts behind stasis, strand and deepsight are very similar, and obviously, because theyre all paracausal manifestations of the darkness

a couple weeks?

[vale viper]

It's not really 3 different concepts

More like 2.5

[dapper moss]

lightfall came out a full year after witch queen did

[blazing wasp]

How is "going with the flow" related to "memory"

[vale viper]

Deep sight was basically the demo to the what you really want

[dapper moss]

thought memory and self control are all tangentially related concepts

[vale viper]

The good stuff

Even had to get it in the streets

[blazing wasp]

Strand cannot do what deepsight does

[vale viper]

which makes no sense

[dapper moss]

i promise you nobody was using deepsight and thinking “wow i cant wait for this to let me swing through the streets and suspend people in the air”

[dapper moss]

no, it makes perfect sense

[blazing wasp]

Everything deepsight does is related to memory

Given the location we use deepsight it makes perfect sense

[dapper moss]

it just makes no sense to you because it proves why your wack ass theory makes no sense

we also can’t use deepsight anywhere else

but titan

and the throne world

[vale viper]

Until we got it, then we all went wtf this makes more sense getting it in Witch Queen instead of summoning damn platforms

[dapper moss]

for obvious reasons

both locations heavily steeped in memory

[blazing wasp]

Strand is like... Floating in a river
Fight the stream and you drown
Flow with the stream, and you'll float

[hard sigil]

idk how to convince you that the idea of "manipulating a web that connects the minds of every sentient being to impose your will" and "reversing the flow of entropy to bring reality back to a prior state of being" are different

[vale viper]

And strand has to do with thought

[dapper moss]

nobody was thinking “we should have had this in witch queen” when they swung through a city steeped in strand

[blazing wasp]

Everything with darkness has to do with thought, but not necessarily memory

Memory and thought are not the same

[vale viper]

Where does memory exist

[dapper moss]

strand isnt just thought

[blazing wasp]

In the case of D2s paracausality it's very different

[vale viper]

What are memories

Past thoughts

[hard sigil]

ok think of deepsight as REALITY'S memory, not the players

[blazing wasp]

Thought, if this Supports your theory then rock is related to water

[hard sigil]

or the guardians

[blazing wasp]

Both are molecules

[hard sigil]

or anyone elses

[vale viper]

Realities past thoughts

[blazing wasp]

No

[hard sigil]

because reality can't think

[blazing wasp]

Reality does not think, that's not how it works

It's not literal memory

[vale viper]

To manifest the past of anything requires the ability to manifest the present to begin with

[ember storm]

Im reality

[blazing wasp]

You can't apply literal, grounded concepts to paracausality like that

Thats the point

[blazing wasp]

I used deepsight to get you here

You know this better than me

That deepsight and strand are not related

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/espurr-pokemon-vacuum-seal-puff-up-plush-gif-2644061863688139230

[dapper moss]

no?

[ember storm]

Deepsight

[dapper moss]

what is giving you this impression

[vale viper]

so all you gotta do is wait 1 second for it to become a memory to manifest it?

[dapper moss]

you dont need to be able to manifest the present to manifest the past

[dapper moss]

i mean you could but its still there 1 second later so that wouldnt actually do anything

[vale viper]

Not even a second

[blazing wasp]

This conversation is going in circles, the fact multiple people with a comprehension of the lore and world building disagree with you using actual in-game explanations, and you still argue shows that this conversation is useless

[dapper moss]

the point of deepsight is that we are manifesting things that arent there anymore

[vale viper]

Literally a microsecond

[dapper moss]

thats why its useful

[blazing wasp]

Being correct is irrelevant, as you won't change your mind

I don't think this conversation serves much purpose

[vale viper]

So strand and deep sight have a 1 microsecond difference

Wait, if strand can't manifest memories

[blazing wasp]

We've given you the ingame explanation as to how they're very different, you can choose to accept those or not accept those

We cannot make you change your mind beyond giving you the information the game has bluntly presented to us repeatedly

[vale viper]

Its different but theres no reason why they are

[dapper moss]

i got chemo in 5 hours i cant take this anymore

[vale viper]

It doesn't even make sense for them to be different

[ember storm]

Like me

[blazing wasp]

We'd find similar success in trying to convince you 2+2=4, we're told it is, everything tells is it's like this, we've explained it in every way we can

[dapper moss]

its the same amount of sense for why strand and stasis are different

[blazing wasp]

Incorrect you are a valued part of this server

[ember storm]

Says who

[dapper moss]

why not make them the same thing! theyre both manifestations of darkness!

[blazing wasp]

Literally me just now fym says who

[ember storm]

darkness as a whole is about memory

[hard sigil]

to use your example of "making platforms appear". The platforms were already there, in the past. you are simply bringing that "memory" of where the platforms were to the present, temporarily

[vale viper]

Its like Aquaman being able to control whales and whales are mammals

[ember storm]

do you want egregore to be strand

that’s memory

[vale viper]

So he should be able to control humans

[ember storm]

Except it’s not about fish it’s literally just about marine life because that’s his connection to the world

[vale viper]

But he cant, why not? No reason

[ember storm]

He can literally control microbes in the water

They’re not fish

[blazing wasp]

He could sometimes he cannot otherwise, the inconsistency of DC isn't a good example

[ember storm]

It’s not about being a fish

[blazing wasp]

Thays

[hard sigil]

this is because Aquaman controls sea life. not just fish

[blazing wasp]

Not the one I ment to reply to

[vale viper]

So humans swimming in the ocean?

[hard sigil]

no because that is not sea life. that is just life in the sea

[blazing wasp]

Aquamans powers and reasons for his powers vary and are inconsistent

[dapper moss]

thats not sea life, thats land life in the sea

[blazing wasp]

Because Aquaman is a DC character

This example doesn't work

[dim minnow]

not even accounting for the fact that Strand is fundamentally different on a thematic level and such from Deepsight

[ember storm]

Why doesn’t Batman just kill Eramis is he stupid

[vale viper]

What's the distinction, specifically for sea life

[blazing wasp]

Yes

[blazing wasp]

Whatever the plot demands

[dapper moss]

bc its dc and its inconsistent and also might i add doesnt fucking matter

[blazing wasp]

D2 offers an explanation, a world building, and sticks to it, which is different to aquaman

[hard sigil]

the current explanation of Aquamans powers is that he has a connection to the Life Force (also known as the Green), like how the flash has a connection to the Speed Force. This communion allows access to what the Green deems aquatic life. because the green is sentient.

but I digress

[blazing wasp]

Fish are also sentient, but only sometimes

He can control water but only when he can

[dim minnow]

I hardly know much about DC, but that sounds lame for some reason

[hard sigil]

he can control blood now because there's water in blood idk I prefer marvel

[blazing wasp]

You can't use DC to make the comparison because it agrees and disagrees

[ember storm]

anyway brave & the bold aquaman is the best iteration because i say so

[vale viper]

Absolute Aquaman better be an actual fish this time

[hard sigil]

yeah there's a bunch of Forces it's really weird. there's a Still Force, which is the primordial opposite of the speed force and that's funny to me though

[vale viper]

DC could use some sunsetting

Keep absolute universe

[dapper moss]

realest thing you’ve said all morning

[vale viper]

Absolute Wonder woman is carrying it right now

[hard sigil]

should move this to #☀️off-topic-discussion but I will say I am very intrigued by absolute martian manhunter

[trim grotto]

Alright I'm done with Elden Ring
What'd I miss

[sick yew]

Conspiracies

[slim girder]

Idea for EoF raid.
Since maya sundaresh can change her form back into radiolaria what if she built herself a giant vex construct frame with same capabilities as something like atheon or panoptes thanks to the echos power and that was a raid boss

Damaging this vex construct would involve exposing the core that houses maya

[empty fern]

Panoptes 2

[dawn rain]

what happened to the owner of the thorn

[hard sigil]

killed by Shin Malphur at Dwindler's Ridge

[trim grotto]

Dwindler's Ridge. But yes, back in the earlier days of the City.

[hard sigil]

oh it autocorrected

[trim grotto]

The showdown between Dredgen Yor and The Man With The Golden Gun, Shin Malphur, was legendary.

[slim girder]

There's even still a scorched circle where dredgen yor fell

[ember storm]

I still don’t get what his motivation was meant to be

[slim girder]

Followers looking for his ship found it when trying to retrace his steps which led them to his texts and thus the books of sorrow were deciphered

[hard sigil]

and there's another one where Shin killed Callum Sol in the dreaming city too

[slim girder]

A legacy that it would take more than the light to win what was coming

[ember storm]

Just a redditor

[ember storm]

No Yor

[hard sigil]

Shin's or Yor's

[ember storm]

What was his fucking deal

Loser of a person

Like rose was cursed but it had basically zero impact in the end

He just did that

[hard sigil]

he was corrupted by the hive influence that Thorn had

[slim girder]

Yes exactly. He knew that which is why he left those texts behind which became the books of sorrow

[ember storm]

…

The books of sorrow are the hive bible

[hard sigil]

specifically Xyor

[slim girder]

Sorry I meant the book of unmaking. Those texts scribbled into yors ship.

[ember storm]

Still think he’s an edgy loser

[hard sigil]

fair he did end up sucking

but that one time he killed himself to ambush a Kell before he got corrupted was funny

[slim girder]

Maybe so but out of all his evil we did eventually end up using darkness along with light to win.

He was evil but that corrupting power could be used for good.

That's what the shadows do now. They experiment with darkness but any who go too far at least at the time were then hunted down by shin malphur.

Even the vanguard while not agreeing with the method still allow it

[ember storm]

Yeah but Yor had nothing to do with that

He literally just killed a bunch of people

Having a bunch of written notes in his trunk doesn’t help anything

[hard sigil]

the shadows are a sting operation founded by Shin to prevent guardians vulnerable to corruption from falling off the deep end after experiencing darkness for the first time through gambit

[hard sigil]

I feel like it's still important to note that he had a hive wizard whispering sword logic propaganda in his ear the whole time

[ember storm]

We’ve had an ahamkara in our head for literal years that’s just a skill issue

And a worm god

[hard sigil]

like it wasn't entirely his fault

[ember storm]

He’s kinda fucking stupid to put evil death worshipping alien bones on his gun

[hard sigil]

yeah that's true

[ember storm]

All in all deserved probably

[slim girder]

Imo it shows yor still had some part left of him. Doesn't justify his actions at all but those texts left a legacy and that's how the shadows of yor were born. Now they experiment with darkness through things such as gambit and make in shins words "warriors who can walk the thin line between light and dark"

[hard sigil]

I don't think that was Yor's intention though

[ember storm]

Yor didn’t have anything to do with what shadows have been doing for good though

Shin did all the work to actually weed out the losers

That’s why he officially founded the group

There was just a bunch of edgy nerds genuinely trying to emulate Yor and Thorn at first

[hard sigil]

Shin just repurposed what Yor had learnt as a "don't do this" guide

[slim girder]

I know. I'm not saying this was all his idea but those texts still left a legacy. And Shin has now taken that and formed this new group.

[daring sonnet]

Are hive, cabal, and eliksni the only species in the game that canonically speak English?

And/or that we have allied with

[hard sigil]

no, humans do too

[daring sonnet]

Yk what I mean

[hard sigil]

Ahamkara can, and so can the witness

[daring sonnet]

Oh true

So that leaves vex, scorn, dread that don’t?

[hard sigil]

certain scorn can, like the barons

I think there are lore tabs with subjugators talking but I don't have a source on hand

oh and Nezarec speaks to us

and Rhulk

[daring sonnet]

What race are each of those tho

Like what overall class would they fall into

[hard sigil]

Nezzy is his own thing, Rhulk is a Lubraean

and subjugators are themselves based off of Rhulk, but would be classified as Dread

[daring sonnet]

So we had dread in the game before dread was even a thing?

[dapper moss]

i cant wait until we translate the dread language

[daring sonnet]

Also do tormentors not fall into any of the other races?

[dapper moss]

i wanna know what that tormentor is saying

[hard sigil]

in a way, with tormentors

[dapper moss]

they are dread

[daring sonnet]

Ohhh ok

[hard sigil]

Tormentors are the witnesses attempt at cloning Nezarec

[daring sonnet]

Wait in encore they maya whatever

Are they exo or vex

[dapper moss]

maya is an exo

[hard sigil]

Maya is a vex simulation that constructed an exo body out of radiolaria

[daring sonnet]

So then it’s just the vex specifically that have no recorded instances of speaking English

[hard sigil]

and that is because they communicate in a completely alien way to the rest of life as we know it

[dapper moss]

they do understand us though i believe

[daring sonnet]

Well yeah I guess they are a hive mind

[hard sigil]

they don't use symbology, they communicate through simulation

so they technically don't have language at all

[daring sonnet]

I would love to see either a two-way convo or even an alliance with the vex

[hard sigil]

it may only be possible with Choral vex due to the echo of commands influence

[daring sonnet]

It would still be pretty hype

Or even

And this is even less likely

Some sort of vex necromancy subclass

Since they’re robots/hive mind it’s the most feasible

[dapper moss]

thats just like

splicers

[hard sigil]

yeah

[slim girder]

She is not a simulation. That is the same maya who ended up on neomuna with chioma esi. You can see her story in the veil containment logs along with some lore books from echoes

[hard sigil]

oh wait yeah you're right

wonder how she hopped from the veil into the vexnet

[slim girder]

It was through a connection to the veil. This was part of how the cloudark was formed and why in the cloudark the neomuni still have to deal with vex incursions from time to time.
All those empty seats and stations you see in the area around the veil were what was used to interface with it.

[hard sigil]

right that makes sense

I forgor

[slim girder]

The veil containment logs explain it much better but when maya "died" it was in the conductors chair which is where chioma found her.

[hard sigil]

yeah I just read it all again

[sweet swan]

do Warlocks have like clans/factions, etc

[hard sigil]

mhm

most prevalent is the Praxic Order

[sweet swan]

had an idea for my story

[hard sigil]

but there's also groups like the Thanatonauts

[sweet swan]

I was gonna have their bonds be repping the same logo

I'm starting to pick it back up after a few days cuz I haven't had any ideas on what to add

[hard sigil]

fair

but yes, warlock groups are often called Orders

[sweet swan]

how do they operate?

[hard sigil]

the Praxic order is kinda like a cult more than anything, and fell out of popularity since beyond light due to their.. pragmatic beliefs

but orders could be anything from research groups to a militia

there's not a whole lot out there about guardian factions outside of very specific named groups

[sweet swan]

I see

so any ideas for this order I can add

I ain't got any

[hard sigil]

it depends on what direction you want to take them, and how the members are as characters

are they united by a common goal or belief? or convenience and circumstance?

things like that

[sweet swan]

I see

[hard sigil]

I always find asking questions about my characters helpful as prompts

[sweet swan]

I'll keep updates coming when I think of stuff

[slim girder]

All the guardian classes have orders. Some are made up of one guardian class and others are a mix. Tons of differing views and ideals.

And they all operate under those ideals.

[sweet swan]

okay I got it, because I like enemy factions

the order of Warlocks specializes in helping new guardians and researching Vex specifically, they also do a fair amount of militia stuff too but mostly researching Vex

[hot sierra]

Is there anything known about if guardians still require rest and sustenance? I know this question is kinda random asf but still lol

[sick yew]

They gotta eat, they gotta drink
They dont have to sleep but they function better if they do

[queen swallow]

I mean, they could go without eating or drinking because they can just be revived by their ghost but like with everyone else, it's probably not ideal

[frigid sparrow]

Doesn't drifter specifically die of starvation

Or was he making himself die in other ways to try and loosen that feeling of hunger

[hot sierra]

Yeah, starving to death over and over sounds dark as fck

[frigid sparrow]

Can't remember

[sick yew]

He just starved over and over

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah, you need food and water

[sick yew]

And when his ghost said it could resurrect him without an empty stomache he declined

[frigid sparrow]

"suffering builds character" aah

[hot sierra]

Tbh i was hoping for a yes about needing food so my headcanon about my warlock isn't completely obsolete lol

[queen swallow]

It's headcanon. You can just... decide to make it a requirement

[hot sierra]

Fair enough lol

[dim minnow]

I think his Ghost could have protected him from the effects of starvation, but he refused since he still didn't trust it

[frigid sparrow]

Tbh what is ghost even supposed to do there

Like would it just

https://tenor.com/view/plankton-meat-hologram-meat-carne-holográfica-gif-15072933

[blazing wasp]

if your ghost can revive you with all of your limbs, organs, and complicated biological matter all completely intact, reviving you with correct levels of nutrients should really not be that hard.

[frigid sparrow]

what's the point of nutrients if it doesn't involve getting to eat yummy food

[blazing wasp]

im unable to parry your joke with a joke of my own

[dim minnow]

I don't think a Ghost can just make such nutrients like that on the fly

[blazing wasp]

maybe it is a stretch

[shrewd ravine]

Actual question, how did oryx get the power of the taken? Or whatever

[jagged badge]

By slaying the Worm God, Akka, Oryx was able to commune with the Deep

[shrewd ravine]

Ahh yeah

[jagged badge]

From this communion, he learned and inscribed the ability to Take on the Tablets of Ruin

[shrewd ravine]

I see, thanks!

[dim minnow]

absolute baller pfp and name btw

[shrewd ravine]

Thank you

[dim minnow]

say, did you hear about the upcoming Grievous comic they're making?
I'll talk more about it in off topic

[weary hearth]

do we know anything of the origin of the traveler

like at all

besides the whole light and dark has been since the beginning

[dim minnow]

Unveiling is really our only source

though it is highly allegorical

[shrewd ravine]

More questions..

What was oryx’s relationship with crota and his children? Like how did they interact

[empty fern]

Hate :3

[dim minnow]

Oryx favored Crota due to his strength, though he was not above punishing him for his fuck-ups

like when Crota accidentally let the Vex into his Throne World

Crota was also Oryx's top contributor to his line of tribute so losing him really hurt him

[shrewd ravine]

Did they..have another parent? Or does oryx use asexual reproduction

[shrewd ravine]

Fuckin vex

[dim minnow]

Hive are possibly asexual, but I think Oryx did specifically mention having a mate for Crota

[empty fern]

I think he just summoned him or anointed him from a brood or something

Ah

[dim minnow]

said mate was never mentioned again though

[empty fern]

Not alah kuls wife?

[dim minnow]

Alak-Hul was a foster child which Oryx did like

[shrewd ravine]

I feel like I can’t imagine oryx doing this

[dim minnow]

Alak-Hul's mate was Verok

[empty fern]

Neat

[dim minnow]

we don't really know what happened to her

[empty fern]

You never see a hive Egg thing? Krill?

[dim minnow]

some theorize that she is the Wizard trapped in a crystal in that one Dreadnaught Crucible map

[jagged badge]

Not sure but fun fact about Oryx’s daughters. According to the Books of Sorrow, the reason they are twins is because Oryx cut their larvae in half

[empty fern]

Ngl, maybe we killed her off in some quest, would have to check internet

[shrewd ravine]

Based lowkey

[empty fern]

Like a hook worm?

[dim minnow]

I don't think we've ever encountered her

tread carefully, don't want to violate rule 3

[shrewd ravine]

True true mb

[empty fern]

Especially with Eris right there

[dim minnow]

anyways, onto his daughters, Oryx did also like them as well

though sometimes he has a hard time understanding their "Milennial" language

in that they're massive nerds

[empty fern]

(Some totally related stuff)

[dim minnow]

they're also the ones who I believe allow his Dreadnaught to travel through space

of course I already talked about Alak-Hul

while Alak wants to usurp Oryx, this was something the Taken King himself intended

not sure why, but he was cool with it

onyl really threw him in jail because he failed

then there's Nokris
because he wasn't as strong as his brother, Oryx disowned him

so, he communed with the worms and made a pact with Xol who gave him the power of necromancy

[empty fern]

Bro lost the gacha

[dim minnow]

so not only did Nokris commune with the worms which is something Oryx does not want anyone else to do, but he also used a power the Hive consider heretical to their beliefs

as a result, Nokris was cast off from Oryx's broods and his name was stricken from every record save for a single defiant statue aboard the Dreadnaught

so to sum it all up
Crota - Favorite
Daughters - Very cunning, if not hard to understand at times
Alak-Hul - Likes
Nokris - "depart from me, I never knew you"

[empty fern]

Now another thing to wonder

Some d1 exotic lore, if they had any

[dim minnow]

D1 exotic armors only had flavor text

so there was much less lore tied to them

[empty fern]

Tragic

[dim minnow]

most of it was looking at their designs

like Third Man using a Hive's face

[empty fern]

Did we ever wonder if it was someone on Eris’s fireteam? When did the exotic release again

[hard sigil]

we know about all 6 members of her fireteam

[trim grotto]

I doubt it. It is creepy, though.

[hard sigil]

Sai Mota was a hunter and a bladedancer

but there's nothing connecting her to anything about the Third Man

[dim minnow]

maybe she cut off a Hive's face and wore it like a mask

[trim grotto]

Don't be silly, Dova. It wasn't her. It was the Third Man.

[floral verge]

What is the story of the traveler

Like the lore behind it

[queen swallow]

Big orb

Came from somewhere, no one knows where

[floral verge]

Fun

[dim minnow]

the Traveler is described to be an incomplete Gardener

[floral verge]

W

[dim minnow]

the Gardener being an entity who belives in complexity, cooperation, and cultivating life

however, an entity known as the Winnower cut her down presumably cutting away the Veil which is heavily implied to be a part of it

[trim grotto]

I don't exactly have time to explain in detail since I'm on my lunch break.
The earliest records of the Traveler are either Ahsa's story detailing the origin of the Witness, or Unveiling, if you take it at face value - which you shouldn't.
It is, however, described to contain electroweak material in its shell, a hypothetical material from the birth of the universe.

It is a terraformer and cultivator of life and civilisations, tending planets and the beings on them, before moving on. It values free will above all else, and is a sentient, conscious being.

[floral verge]

Ah alright

Thank you

[sick yew]

If you wanna read some stuff from the perspective of the Traveler might I recommend the Microcosm loretab

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/microcosm?highlight=microcosm

This is when the Traveler was actively reforming Mars to create life and ties directly into the initial D1 trailer with the Astronauts on Mars

[clear knot]

Could Riven connect to the ascendant plane if she was taken?

[slim girder]

Yes.

[clear knot]

Ok. What exactly is the ascendant plane?

[sick yew]

We confront her in the ascendant plane in Last Wish itself actually

[slim girder]

It's a realm that overlaps our own. In that place distance and many factors are subject to the influence of paracausal beings depending on their power. Hive gods make entire worlds out of the ascendant plane using their power.

[clear knot]

ohhh

[slim girder]

It can be used to bypass obstacles like we did when rescuing hostages from the cabal during season of defiance.
And it can be used to move troops which is how the hive generally move about.

[clear knot]

Okay. I've only been playing wish onwards...

[slim girder]

Highly recommend you go to the dreaming city. Tons of ascendant plane stuff there like the shattered throne dungeon and the many ascendant challenges that you need to find hidden portals to access. You can look up some lore videos to.

[clear knot]

Also, after Oryx's death (I think that was the taken king?) who controlled the Taken? I thought Riven had some control - which is how she was able to flood the dreaming city with taken if im understanding

[slim girder]

Savathun and riven were the main leaders of the taken at the time. But generally the taken will follow any being powerful enough to command their will.

Savathun did it through a vex mind oryx gifted to her name quria blade transformed

[queen swallow]

For a while after Oryx's death, no one really controlled the Taken as far as I'm aware. Maybe the Witness in some capacity but definitely not to the degree Oryx did. Now, in Episode Heresy, there are whispers of a new ruler of the Taken. Someone we don't know yet. Someone called the Lord of Every Nothing.

[clear knot]

okay. I'm trying to figure things out one step at a time, this has been great help. Thank you!

[slim girder]

All good. Ask anything if you want to know more.

[clear knot]

I'm doing some writing with a friend, and essentially the Guardian died without being able to kill uldren, and Uldren - if im understanding correctly he was being manipulated by riven - is undoing the cage around riven to free her. I know its total fan AU, but I'm having fun with it and want to at least keep it parallel to actual events in the regular story

[slim girder]

Yes. Uldren was manipulated into freeing riven who posed as a mirage of mara sov. At the time people had believed mara sov to have been killed in the battle with oryx back in destiny 1.

Though when we arrived in the dreaming city for the first time it was discovered she had survived and was just in the ascendant plane.

[clear knot]

ohhh okay

How powerful is riven's shapeshifting/formtaking/whatever she does?

[ember storm]

Ahamkara can be big or small

They can appear as entirely different creatures

But it’s not enough to save them from just being shot, so

[hard sigil]

Ahamkara naturally have fairly strong shapeshifting

[ember storm]

A lot less creative than you’d think

[clear knot]

Cause right now in this alternate timeline she's taken the form of a guardian that should be dead to manipulate a powerful fireteam

[ember storm]

I mean it wouldn’t really be permanent

[slim girder]

She can become whatever she likes to manipulate others. And this also applies to mimicing voices. If you played season of the wish you might have seen riven mimic Lord shaxxs voice.

[queen swallow]

I thought the boss we fight is just a Chimera and not Riven herself?

[ember storm]

And anything guardians can do ahamkara wouldn’t be able to, so it’s not a great disguise

[clear knot]

I vaguely remember that

[ember storm]

in the campaign

that has nothing to do with the plot