📚lore-discussion

[frigid sparrow]

Drifter already died and we rezzed him

But also Eris isn't really the hive god of vengeance anymore

[slow berry]

i just wanna say that the lore tabs for Ergo Sum and Microcosm are one of my favourites in the entire game

[sick yew]

Microcosm is very cool I agree

[eager trout]

If only it was obtainable in one day

I finally figured out why Nimbus acts like that

The people of Neomuna come from a line of iPad kids (or the Golden Age equivalent) that was never interrupted by the Collapse

[slow berry]

i got microcosm in a single day wdym?

[sick yew]

What was Microcosm quest again
Just the three coop campaign missions no?

[slow berry]

yup, coop focus missions

ascent dissent and iconoclasm

[sick yew]

Mhm

[slim girder]

If you are up for the grind you can get khvostov, microcosm and the exotic class items all in one day.

RnG on the khvostov bosses might screw you over though a couple times.

[twin ferry]

What are these cubes? are they just something cool? Do they have a name or purpose?

[slim girder]

It's just tool for the infinite forest presumably. Lets him see into different vex predictions or even use the gate network to get around.

[twin ferry]

Thank you thank you. Did they have anything to do with the perfect paradox quest? And the infinite forge.

Thank you so much

[slim girder]

Not really no. Just something that never got expanded on and is just one of Osiris little tools he has.

[eager trout]

You also have to do the Micah quests to unlock those

[sick yew]

You can do all of those in one day tho

[sick yew]

In the infinite forrest theyre a tool
Outside theyre basically a glorified fidget spinner

And tbf they do look pretty cool

[ember storm]

related to these iirc

[slim girder]

The mercury prophecy weapons. Those were a grind.

[ember storm]

i got the sagira shell like a good little cultist

[slim girder]

Same. Haven't taken it off since and it sucks ghost shells nowadays don't have as many working parts.

[odd otter]

I remember that guy

[slow berry]

He truly hoped for the future

[hollow hinge]

You gave me whiplash with that throwback

[frigid sparrow]

brother vance did not fucking look like that why does he have aura he's supposed to be a dipshit loser

[queen swallow]

He does in fact look like that

[trim grotto]

He was definitely affected harshly by the Y1 writing style

[frigid sparrow]

and now he's affected by no writing style

[eager trout]

"Six-sided tablets"

They're called cubes

[ember storm]

Vance can’t see them

[slim girder]

Poor Vance. Even Osiris forgot about him when saint mentioned him.

[sick yew]

We wouldnt forget our goat

[kind ledge]

osiris never really cared about him though, no?

[trim grotto]

Osiris thought Brother Vance was a thorn in his side at best - and literally forgot who he was at worst, including after his death.

He was... polite to him, once.

[sick yew]

When he gave him one of the most crucial news of his life yeah

[trim grotto]

And it was strained politeness at that

[sick yew]

@jagged badge yk gambit prime in the lore has guardians actually kill each other fr and stuff

[jagged badge]

Oh fun

[sick yew]

Yeah

[sick yew]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-reckoning?highlight=joxer

This is the big one

[slim girder]

What was brother vances blindfold for again? Wasn't it a similar reason to eris for "seeing better" though obviously Eris actually lost her eyes.

[sick yew]

Pretty sure all the followers of Osiris pulled that one

Bla bla cult stuff

[trim grotto]

Well, he was blind.

Just regular old blind.

[slim girder]

Ok then. I could have sworn he purposely blinded himself so that he could iirc hear the notes from the lighthouse better.

Both in actual eyesight and with the blindfold

[trim grotto]

To be a Guardian! How I longed for it. After a near-death experience in which I lost my eyesight, I even believed that I had become a Guardian, that the great Osiris had granted me my dearest wish.

How young and foolish I was!

But now that I am thirty, and wise, I know better. I wanted to be a Guardian, but what I needed was to feel like I was enough. Like I was equal to the great task of life. That I was heroic.```

Thirty and wise gets me

[hard sigil]

interesting to see that bungie had glaives in mind all the way back in forge

[trim grotto]

I'm sure it wasn't quite the same concept as we got in Witch Queen.

Drifter just likes old fashioned steel and kinetic force.

[hard sigil]

fair point

[jagged badge]

You’re not the same concept as we got in Witch Queen

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/dolunay-hakan-tea-villain-bad-guy-gif-17882327

[sick yew]

Shoutouts to Arbalest

Drifter aint in on all that scifi laser shit

linear fusions only as energy? Not with him it aint

[slim girder]

Here, take what is basically destiny's version of a two handed crossbow

[ember storm]

Are crossbows usually one handed?

[slim girder]

No they're usually two handed designed to be held like a rifle. But there are small ones called pistol crossbows.
Fun fact a "crossbowman" is sometimes referred to as an arbalist or arbalister.

I love crossbows.

[sick yew]

Arby isnt one handed?

Oh wait

mb

[void depot]

Bungie give us dual-wield Arby

[hard sigil]

akimbalist

[empty fern]

Give us wire rifle void version

[slim girder]

Lorentz driver take it or leave it.

[empty fern]

Fuck

[frigid sparrow]

My queen, the arbalest...

[hot cypress]

does air exist in the destiny universe

[ember storm]

Yeah

[hot cypress]

is there lore entry that says taht

[frigid sparrow]

Season of the deep

We needed air

[ember storm]

are you being fr

do you want me to list those out for you

maybe on a platter

[hot cypress]

prefereably with spoon please

[ember storm]

sorry we only have the munchkin baby spork

[hot cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/mario-super-mario-bros-depression-sad-mario-and-luigi-gif-14815881022592239601

pain

[lapis thistle]

Ye, if not we would die

[hot cypress]

no way

[lapis thistle]

Yes

And no ghost would be able to res us

[queen swallow]

What do you think the helmets are for?

[lapis thistle]

To not get stab with a bullet

Or anything else really

[queen swallow]

No, they're to give us air because it doesn't exist

[hot cypress]

is there an in lore reason on why we need to breathe

[shy remnant]

This is why people became exos. They wouldn’t need to breathe

[lapis thistle]

Because humans have organs

And they need oxygen

[hot cypress]

crazy stuff

you are telling me they need to eat so they can live too??

[lapis thistle]

Yes, they need energy

[ember storm]

Little known fact but money can be exchanged for goods and services

Each time we complete a glimmer mining event it tanks the city’s economy

[shy remnant]

Vanguard: Another 500,000 Glimmer to the guardian

[lapis thistle]

So I must be the sole reason why earth is on a deep hole

I have so much glimmer

And I did that event so many times

[hot cypress]

I NEVER KNEW THAT

WHATS NEXT YOU ARE GONNA TELL ME THERE IS A TERM FOR THAT!?

[empty fern]

Yes it’s called

Capillary realism

[eager trout]

Clovis Bray trying to become immortal just made Humans 2.0

Except the only difference is they're made of metal

[ember storm]

I mean they don’t age or suffer physical disease which is a plus

Despite being one of the only mortal exos left with the most damaged memory, Banshee is also living incredibly well

[eager trout]

They don't age but suffer from dementia (because of resets), and don't heal on their own (as far as I know)

[empty fern]

He wanted them more quirky

[ember storm]

No that’s specifically because Banshee damaged his own memory banks and all of his previous “resets” didn’t really exist

[hazy veldt]

it’s cool that those cutscenes we get in rite of the nine location give us numbers of members of the nine and marks their specific way of speaking

Also showing different destinations and symbols in the end

We can differentiate them now

[eager trout]

W E S H O U T B E L L O W I N G

Btw, why does Neptune talk so weird?

[queen swallow]

Is that Neptune?

According to order, it should be Jupiter, which would make more sense as the largest planet

Yeah, we get a clear view of the large satellite dish that sits over Variks on Europa. Europa is one of Jupiter's 95 moons

[cursive wren]

the biug hive mf in the rite of 9 is gone

is there a reason

[queen swallow]

Hive?

[dapper moss]

that was oryx

it is no longer his dungeon

so he is not longer there

[queen swallow]

The dungeons have been rotating

I think I'm right in my ordering of the Nine as to who speaks what.
I through VIII is the planets from Mercury to Neptune, in order and IX is the Sun.

[queen swallow]

Have we figured out why Venus and Earth are written/speak differently in the RotN cutscenes than in the rest of the lore?

[sick yew]

Cause its two different nine speaking

Probably

[green cobalt]

so in Prophecy, were the phalanx echo and hexahedron supposed to prophesize anything?

[ember storm]

No

[green cobalt]

[ember storm]

Prophecy did not prophesize anything

[green cobalt]

WHAT

[ember storm]

We asked the nine about their interpretation of light and darkness and the dungeon is their answer

[green cobalt]

oh

[ember storm]

The difference doesn’t matter when people use them for the same things

That’s what the motes are for

[sick yew]

Caiatl maybe?

[ember storm]

No

[sick yew]

Yes
Because I said so

[ember storm]

People even like to go “ohh they predicted the planets disappearing!!!”

no

they didn’t

this was halfway into Arrivals when there was already pyramids on those locations

Nine are just a bunch of fraud losers

[green cobalt]

i struggle to see where they'd get planets disappearing from Prophecy

[sick yew]

Lmao

[ember storm]

locations in heaven/hell are from the red war locations

[sick yew]

The wasteland having locations from the 4 planets that ended up leaving

[green cobalt]

[ember storm]

Have you done prophecy before nexius

[green cobalt]

yeah i haven't cared much for scenery

[ember storm]

That’s like the one thing that’s always great in destiny

Cretin

Sycophant

[green cobalt]

meanie

[green cobalt]

[sick yew]

Yeah I play d2 without music and don't pay attention to the environments

[green cobalt]

me

[ember storm]

Sweatcicle

[sick yew]

Forgot that guy still exists

[slim girder]

"I don't speedrun anymore"

[ember storm]

Remember when he whined on Twitter about not being able to be carried through encore to get CoO without doing the act 3 story

[slim girder]

Watch me complain about destiny while I look for every way under the moon to cut corners and get to the end of everything because it's "inconvenient"

[slim girder]

Yeah even byf....... Fucking byf had to tell him to chill

Bro was upset he didn't have a free skip button ready for him when he came back to the game.

[ember storm]

Oh god

Remember when byf posted about Micah being a cool character

Literally didn’t say anything about her backstory just said she was cool

[slow berry]

Micah IS a cool character

[ember storm]

And the shambling protozoans came out of the woodwork

[slow berry]

wait until she becomes speaker

[ember storm]

Speaker is a boring position

What the fuck is there to listen for

The traveler is in a coma now

If you want to hear the traveler you literally just go in the pale heart

[slow berry]

Isn't it healed now

[slim girder]

Speaker sounds like asking for insanity tbh. Like sure cool you can hear the traveler but think.
Imagine trying to sleep and all you hear is a whale noise

[slow berry]

Rather healing but definitively not comatose

[hollow hinge]

No it'll take years

Definitely still comatose

[ember storm]

It physically cannot do anything in the outside world while it focuses on recovering

[slow berry]

but it speaks in lore tabs!!

[slim girder]

*healing
Still has a giant hole in it and is leaking light and dark into space.

[ember storm]

This includes speaking

[slow berry]

yeah but when has it ever done that

[ember storm]

It’s ambient thoughts are literally physically manifested

[ember storm]

Literally every single time it’s ever spoken

That’s what speakers are for

It consciously chooses to send them messages

And it also spoke to us in forsaken

And spoke to Rhulk

[slow berry]

That I did not know

[slim girder]

It spoke through a ghost shell.
"THIS ONE IS NOT FOR YOU"

The lore tab is on the eclipsed sun ghost shell

[ember storm]

And for anyone asking, no, Rhulk was not about to be gifted the light

He grabbed the ghost out of the air and was about to physically take it apart to try and steal its light

He literally outright says in disappointment that the traveler won’t let light be taken by force

traveler mercy killed the ghost while also telling Rhulk to fuck off

[slim girder]

Wonder how a convo between rhulk and oryx would go.

Or a fight

[ember storm]

Rhulk would most definitely underestimate him that’s for sure

[slow berry]

Okay that fucking goes hard as hell

[ember storm]

Idk how much that’d really help

[slow berry]

both would be like "oomf fucking killed us fr"

[hot cypress]

you think exos get affected by rust?

[slow berry]

Nah

[slim girder]

Yes. As any robotic being does

They do require some form of upkeep just like a regular human brushes their teeth and stuff like that

[blazing wasp]

Century old exo corpses not having any rust tells me they're rust free

[slim girder]

Europa that would make sense since that facility is maintained and kept mostly clean with exo frame assembly lines still active seemingly. But if there were exos in the edz then I'd expect rust to form.

[hot cypress]

i like to think that exos have to drink lemon juice to get rid of rust in their system

[sick yew]

I dont think Exo actually rust

Clovis in his infinite strain for the perfect human probably found some kind of funky ass scifi metal to get around that

The dead exo we found on Europa which had been there since the collapse hundreds upon hundreds of years ago didnt show any signs of rust iirc

[frigid sparrow]

I feel like exos rusting would be too much against their human brain

Unless they'd just like, view it as a rash

[ember storm]

This is assuming they’re made of a material that is able to rust

Which I would assume they’re not

Seeing as they’re designed to do what humans do, like eat and drink

If you couldn’t even touch liquid you’d definitely get DER

[frigid sparrow]

asmongold exo

[little gorge]

do you think asmongold has soda powering his mind like the exos have alkahest

[frigid sparrow]

this comes with the implication of him having a mind to think

[little gorge]

fair

[sick yew]

Anyone wanna try their hands on cryptic Nine stuff?

Or does this really just come down to "fuck you, we dont care how or what you think, just do as we say"

[queen swallow]

They are not asking us to understand what or why we are doing something for them, only that we are doing it. Orin is saying to be careful because not knowing why or what is dangerous but only so much of that why or what can actually be understood by us through the limited form of language.

[sick yew]

So basically what I said, got it

[queen swallow]

God I love rephrasing what other people say

[sick yew]

God I love taking long carefully written paragraphs and condensing them into one funny sentence

[little gorge]

well at the end of the first bit the emissary says i which implies it's orin speaking

[sick yew]

Shes for sure trying

Cant wait for her to get out

[slow berry]

Have we ever been to the exact touch point where the Traveler met the Ares One crew?

[queen swallow]

I don't think the Traveler actually touched down anywhere

[slow berry]

Well, not touch

But yknow what I mean

[queen swallow]

Barring, of course, the massive shard in the EDZ

[slow berry]

Is it touching something it I throw my rotting finger at it

[queen swallow]

Yes

Touch is still involved

[queen swallow]

I don't think so. Closest answer I could find is Freehold but that's not the real answer. Lore suggests the encounter took place near Mars' north pole and I don't think we've been there

[trim grotto]

It's reasonable to assume that location is the Cradle and its surrounding area.
The problem is that there are two Cradles of Mars. D1 said it is, as Squid said, near the north pole. Witch Queen, however, has it somewhere else entirely.

[ember storm]

Maybe the cradle is just really big and can be seen across the planet huh

[slim girder]

Only time we've ever been to a cradle was back in season of arrivals.
Final shape would also count I guess even though it's just the memory of the cradle and not actually something the traveler created

[trim grotto]

You can see Mars's Cradle in the WQ opening mission

[slim girder]

Oh yeah but I mean actually being to the centre of one where the traveler would have touched down. That intro mission has us more on the outside and over it when we launch ourselves ourselves of the cannon.

[plain topaz]

Which scorn are present in the throne world, Fikrul’s or the witness’s?

The better question would be who’s “controlling” them

[trim grotto]

The Witness. At the time, anyway.

[hard sigil]

you can tell because they're grape flavour not banana

[stark scaffold]

is savathun like brain washing ikora or something? havent payed that much attention in heresy and ikoras voice is savathun in the edge of fate

[jagged badge]

No. Ikora’s just been recast for irl reasons

[stark scaffold]

oh

great now i wont be able to tell the difference between them

[queen swallow]

Savathun's not in this (I don't think) and it's only "replaced" for the stuff involving Kepler.

Regular Tower Ikora or whatever will still be the original va

[frigid sparrow]

Right now, there's nothing regarding where the hive will be in the future in terms of the year ahead

[slow berry]

They're called voice actors for a reason

I guarantee you'll be able to tell

[frigid sparrow]

It's vex/fallen for eof, gonna be fallen and maybe hive for ash and iron (since it's in the cosmodrome), renegades is gonna feature cabal (and probably not hive, either taken because dredgen or vex/fallen for the star wars vibe), and shadow and order is most certainly gonna be shadow legion focused

(and probably wouldn't be able to fit in hive)

The earliest we'll see a major hive themed expansion (major or minor) is likely gonna be shattered cycle, because that is almost guaranteed gonna be about the dreaming city's curse, which is a heavy savathun plotline

[queen swallow]

I thought Taken was a Drifter thing and not the Dredgens in general. They seem more closely linked to Weapons of Sorrow, all of which are Hive

[frigid sparrow]

It is moreso a drifter thing but considering he's the last remaining "dredgen" and this is a new one, wouldn't be surprised if they were to get a little inspiration

Plus, basically free army looking for control.

But, also depends on how the lord of every nothing plotline is going in the future

[stark scaffold]

that i will be invested in

[frigid sparrow]

Obviously it's just a codename RN a la behemoth/renegades but even with a codename like that it's surely gonna actually do something with that storyline

[hollow hinge]

Moreso I doubt people will realise it's the same actress without knowing about it beforehand

[slim girder]

I'm just glad savathun shouldn't have any kind of involvement in this expansion because hear savathuns voice coming from ikora kinda threw me a loop lol

Actually now that I'm thinking about it I wonder when she'll decide to do something. We now have full reason to get rid of her permanently and that includes immaru.

Kill her and squish immaru then chase her back to the throne world in a raid to finish her off.

[stark scaffold]

what do you guys theorize the new raids theme will be/boss will be

[queen swallow]

Vex

Atheon is back

[slow berry]

Fallen

Skolas is back

[dim minnow]

Scorn
Fikrul is back

[hexed dock]

Can someone help
Me find the lore entry for a hunter shooting their golden gun into the ground to buff red jacks or something? I can’t remember who did it or where it is

[jagged badge]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-swarm

[hexed dock]

Thank you

[dim minnow]

DAMMIT

was just about to post it

[jagged badge]

Wait

Is it that one?

[dim minnow]

it is

[jagged badge]

I didn’t actually proofread it lmao

I Ishtar searched “redjacks” and “golden gun” and thought I recognised it being The Swarm

Shaw spots several Gladiator detachments redirecting to confront them. He pushes the bulk of his Light into his weapon, spreads its influence to reach the nearby Redjacks, and reignites his gun before touching the barrel to the ground and firing. The ground bubbles with hot magmatic Light; a warmth envelops the Redjacks as Solar flame imbues and empowers their rifles with golden power. Shaw directs the firestorm of golden Redjack rifles to incinerate every last charging foe.

Ah there it is

I was missing it while skimming and suddenly got concerned I was wrong lmao

[hexed dock]

New hunter super pls

[trim grotto]

This predated Solar 3.0. Technically, we did get it - just via Radiant, such as Acrobat's Dodge.

Rip Well of Gun

[hexed dock]

acrobats dodge and what han did are pretty different. idk if this is the channel to discuss tho and i don't wanna get banned

[queen swallow]

If the Warlocks can stab a sword into the ground to get well, why can't us Hunters shoot the floor to get well? Terrible game :P

[jagged badge]

What would you get banned for?

[hexed dock]

I’m relatively new to discord but I heard that if you don’t keep channels on topic that some mods will ban you for it. Didn’t know if it was true so I just played it safe

[jagged badge]

Ah, well

We do take actions if channels are massively derailed from their purpose, but discussing a smidge of gameplay here, especially in the context of talking about Well of Gun, is absolutely fine

And also for the record, if you were actually derailing the channel bad enough to receive action for it, you’d get a warning first. If you did it more, a strike. More? Another strike. Even more? Final strike and ban

Point being, you won’t get insta-banned for something that trivial here, we have a very lenient system

[hexed dock]

Noted thank you

[hexed dock]

Considering solar 3.0 was more gameplay changes instead of actual lore changes, I’d say we could regardless of predating

[trim grotto]

It's certainly possible for us to do it, lore wise. Gameplay wise, it would be redundant. Cool, though.

[hexed dock]

Why would it be redundant?

[trim grotto]

Because the effect it would provide would be Radiant, such as we already generate, or Well makes.

Doing anything more like actual golden guns would require replacing the weapon model of all the players, as it'd be extremely tedious to have a golden gun variant of every weapon model and exotic.

[hexed dock]

I’m sorry I completely forgot I was in a different channel. In my mind I was thinking if hunters get this well of radiance would lose it’s damage.

Well becomes a pure survivability tool. Hunters have a damage buff tool that offers no survivability. Well does too much

[trim grotto]

Pure Survival would infringe upon Ward of Dawn. Well is a middle ground, which is why it's been nerfed a bunch.
Ward needs its own buffs, of course, but that's a different story.

Anywho, I need to get back to work.

[hexed dock]

Well is more than a middle ground with how often it is used. Bungie literally balances the game around it.

Enjoy work!

[trim grotto]

I suppose the crux of my argument is, what would make the hypothetical new damage buff Super different from Radiant, which we can apply to a team with a dodge?

Even if nobody uses the dodge but y'know

Also thank you
It's very nearly the weekend so I will enjoy the bit of shift that's left haha

Two more hours

[hexed dock]

The power and alternate buffs.

I had an idea awhile ago where the buff would apply a 30% buff and maybe a reload speed scalar or flinch resistance. But there’s zero survivability.

[hexed dock]

Good luck. Just got off a 12 hour shift myself

You mentioned that well and ward are both pure survivability tools. What if they were different?

Well might be a survivability tool best used at a distance

Ward might be a survival tool best used at close range

[trim grotto]

Technically I said Well was a middle ground between the two. Damage and survival.

Either way it does still overshadow Ward and other Radiant yeah

[slim girder]

So byf and waffles just put out some edge of fate footage and talked about lore. Are we allowed to discuss that? Just wanna be sure is all.

[queen swallow]

Not a leak so yes

uhoh, mod typing

They basically yap about theories from things shown in the first mission which Milo/Waffles, and others, have already released videos on

[sick yew]

I personally would put it in spoiler tags just incase as people here might not wanna get spoiled

But in itself it is official footage and info by bungie themselves

[slim girder]

Yeah. I'll be sure to keep it discreet. Again just wanted to be sure because there's some really cool stuff in that first mission that byf and waffles are analysing.

[sick yew]

Mhm

[gleaming osprey]

In my new fanfic episode, Crow is supposed to go undercover in a Scorn fortress while Saint-14 prepares to assault the front door, but their instructions get switched

[sick yew]

Lmfao

[inner mauve]

I dont understand how atraks ripping the face off of her original body prevented insanity?

[trim grotto]

It was a rather rudimentary and barbaric form of treating the issue, but essentially, she assaulted her old body until it no longer looked like her. If it wasn't her, she must be her.
Does that look like your body now? No. It is an empty thing.

Disassociative Exomind Rejection is the brain rejecting the body because the body is wrong. It's essentially a full body transplant. This rather brutal practice organised by Bakris helped Atraks feel that her body was her own... because her original, "real" body was no longer there. It could not be her, it was an imposter.

[jagged badge]

Yeah. Her original face was just a mask anyone could wear

The true her was who she was now

[slim girder]

@trim grotto help me win an argument. Friend of mine is set on the puppeteer in vespers is actually THE atraks we killed in DSC but I'm on the side of it just being a corrupted clone of atraks but the real one is still in the exo network inside of bray exoscience just waiting for a new body.

That last bit is just my theory because of a twid claiming we didn't actually kill her

[trim grotto]

Uh... well, both? The Puppeteer is, as far as we know, all that remained of Atraks physically. A rogue copy, or original, of what we fought. But as an Exo scan, there would be a copy of her scan within the archives, much the same as any other Exo.

[slim girder]

Ok then. Cheers

Yeah we've been going back and forth with this debate lol

But since there isn't any actual confirmation it's hard to nail it down.

[gleaming osprey]

I bet in the next episode Amanda Holliday gets resurrected a a Guardian, but she doesn't remember anything and doesn't care and she just calls everyone an idiot and leaves

[slow berry]

we dont have episodes anymore i think

[gleaming osprey]

Thank you for your input

ha ha just kidding

[frigid sparrow]

One of the thingies for pantheon mentioned how one of the clone orbs that we canonically sent out weren't being tracked, so the implication is that it got stranded on vesper station

[river surge]

Do u guys believe that The Winnower or The Gardener will still have an impact over the new saga, or we will just be exploring The Nine

[blazing wasp]

Given the nature of the winnower, it probably won't have that much impact

The traveler might still though

[river surge]

Still hope that someday they will expand the whole idea of the winnower or the gardener so that way we will understand these entities/concepts better

[blazing wasp]

well we have a somewhat solid idea of what the gardener is, given the long standing implications of it being the traveller

[river surge]

Apart from that, we dont know the origin, but maybe we will understand much more of it

[blazing wasp]

if unveiling is true (it might not be), then we actually know this already.

sentient ideology, math, and that jazz

[river surge]

Yeah

Still hardly consider it true tho

[slim girder]

Yeah. That's been my running theory as to what's happening in vesper. A clone got corrupted and that's what the puppeteer is.

But it's not actually THE atraks. I believe she has her exo scan stored in a network.

[frigid sparrow]

another theory is that it is actually atraks herself, and that her corpse is literally being puppeteered post-mortem, with the part of the morning star she was on crashing into vespers station

[ember storm]

Regardless of the physicality, the reason it’s not called Atraks at all is because there’s just nothing left of Atraks in there to call it that

Copy or original, all that’s left is a puppet

[frigid sparrow]

chat who's gonna tell her

[slim girder]

Has there been any lore on why we choose particular weapons when using light?
Titans with hammers, warlocks with swords and hunters with golden guns, knives, staffs and bows?

Weirdly hunters seem to manipulate light energy to make the most weapons and even darkness as well.

[blazing wasp]

"schools of thought" make shaping the light in certain ways easier

in theory, anyone can make anything using the light, a solar minigun for that matter
its just difficult, to the point few can do it and those that can would be better off doing something else with it

[slim girder]

Interesting. I'm just curious if bungie has slowly been trying to tell us more about exactly how guardians wield light and dark like there's an art to it.
Back during final shape I talked about how in that intro cutscene you see that astronaut wielding all forms of light and dark but their hand motions seem to indicate there's an "art" or hand motions to each element.

For stasis he forms a fist but for arc he clenches his hand and the arc light bounces between his fingers.

[empty fern]

He got the static electricity arc

[queen swallow]

I wonder then how that fits into non-Supers and non-abilities dealing elemental damage? How can a Minotaur lob Void shots at me? How can my machine gun shoot Solar bullets? Or is that just "because video game"?

[blazing wasp]

paracausal solar =/= solar

the hobgoblins are not performing nuclear fusion real time to use a welding tool.

[empty fern]

They totally could be considering the post golden age fantasy tech

[queen swallow]

You say this like I don't suddenly want them to be doing exactly that because rule of cool

[ember storm]

its not light

[blazing wasp]

ok well it might be nuclear fusion but it aint light

[ember storm]

powers that guardians and lightbearers use is specifically our perception of the light manifesting it into already known universal concepts

fire is like the most basic and primeval power that we know so that's where solar light comes from

arc would be next as its both elecitricty and fusion, more advanced concepts but still understood

then there's void, which is less known and more cosmic forces like gravity, which was actually seen as taboo in the dark age

it's literally just how perception of the light has evolved since the first lightbearers rose

subclasses only exist because they're how people train in specific rules of thought

majority of guardians can barely even master one element so they stick to keeping it simple

although outliers exist like Ikora just using whatever element however the hell she wants, and fraud han using his gg like a well

[slow berry]

i think its the difference between a lightless human making Lodestar and researching a third darkness element vs a guardian shooting laser beams out of their hands on demand

[empty fern]

The Shaw slander is insane

[ember storm]

He’s a loser

[empty fern]

He used well

[slim girder]

A bootleg version of it by shooting a golden gun into the ground instead of at an actual enemy.

[ember storm]

He’s such a bad hunter he has to pretend to be a well slave

[empty fern]

Hmph

[slim girder]

I know cayde fired golden gun shots at the red legion ships but man shaw just shot the floor

[empty fern]

He support classed solar hunter

Hes amandas replacement

[slim girder]

I really hope we get an interaction between crow and shaw.

"I hear you're my new boss"
"Yes. You stay in the cosmodrome, we have enough warlocks for wells"

[empty fern]

Please

Wonder how the new guy will turn out, the uncannily realistic one

[dim minnow]

I'm pretty sure Vex take energy from another point in time to power their weapons

[empty fern]

You could say that tech is

…outdated

[jade slate]

Пон

[modern lodge]

I just remembered revenant ending we got, fuck it was bad

[trim grotto]

m'alright

[modern lodge]

It felt very unsatisfying

Like eramis after being a straight evil prick for 4 years she just turns good

"good"

[trim grotto]

I think we had different endings.

[modern lodge]

From memory, the echo chose her and she fucked off

And she became kell of Kells no?

[trim grotto]

No.

[modern lodge]

No?

A paragraph of death is coming for me

[trim grotto]

She hates Humanity. Hates the Traveler. Hates Mithrax and the House of Light. She would still have killed us if she had the reasonable opportunity to.

When the Echo of Riis chose her, it is because she could not do what Mithrax and the House of Light did. She could not move on, not forget Riis. She build Riis Reborn on Europa because she wanted to restore the Eliksni to their former glory, not find new stature.

So, the Echo of Riis, this memory of her home, saw a being willing to rebuild that home. The Echo chose her, and she departed to rebuild Riis.

Mithrax, on the other hand, remained in Sol to unite the remaining Eliksni Houses. He is the last Kell of Sol. The Kell of Kells.

[modern lodge]

Right thank you for the correction

[slim girder]

Speaking of Riis. Did we ever get an actual location of it? And Same with torobatl? I know it's possible Riis might not actually be there anymore though after the witnesses visit.

I'd assume both are outside sol obviously but I'm curious if they're still within our galaxy.

Maybe it's just me but I like when we get locations of all the cool places in destiny because it gives me a sense of the scale of the universe like just how far did the fallen follow the traveler and how far did the cabal run from torobatl after xivus attack.

[slow berry]

They're in space i think

[hollow hinge]

I just don't see either of those factions having the tech to go outside the galaxy

So most likely within the milky way

[ember storm]

They would need to be far out considering it took the entire golden age and collapse for Eliksni to get here

[slim girder]

I don't think that would really require any sort of tech. Not like the milky way has some kind of barrier around it or anything. Calus in the Leviathan supposedly found the black fleet out on the edge of the universe.

[hollow hinge]

no just purely intergalactic travel requires significantly different tech that we've seen no evidence of existing outside of maybe the pyramid fleet

[slim girder]

It does? Based on seeing the journey the black fleet took from outside the milky way to get here it seems like they kinda just set a course for earth and then hit launch lol

[ember storm]

You know hive have been slaughtering civilizations across the universe long before earth was even a physical thing

[hollow hinge]

yes but they use portals, their ships don't travel across galaxies

[slim girder]

Again I don't believe it's a case of having the right technology. I know the universe is obviously a dangerous place but as far as flying around it doesn't seem too different to how we move around Sol.

I'm no NASA scientist though so if there really is something that prevents us from leaving the milky way of something please correct me.

[ember storm]

Your source being what

The animation that plays ingame because bungie doesn’t want to animate the ships coming into orbit just to drop off 5 acolytes?

Skiffs do the same thing doesn’t mean they teleport everywhere

[hollow hinge]

it's purely just a scale thing

[ember storm]

Hive ships very much can’t just teleport wherever they want

They have to travel

[hollow hinge]

Mass Effect for example had the entire mass effect relays concept

[ember storm]

If that were the case oryx’s fleet would’ve been at earth the moment we killed crota

[hollow hinge]

the ships go through the portals...

[ember storm]

for the sake of entering orbit yes

do you honestly think oryx chose to teleport his entire fleet at Saturn specifically

[hollow hinge]

whatever, I just find it lame if the explanation is "they just slowly sailed through the vast emptiness of space"

[slim girder]

Yes they may use the ascendant plane to travel or similar stuff. But it's not akin to hyperspeed or anything.

[ember storm]

hive having enter vessels built with the sole purpose of falling from space to embed themselves into planets means they can’t just teleport everywhere

[ember storm]

he is literally called the navigator

that is his job

The taken king trailer also shows the fleet very slowly traveling through space so

[slim girder]

That's the same as how we humans explored the world. Bro literally got in a boat, said goodbye and didn't stop until they found land

[hollow hinge]

the scope is just not the same at all lmfao

[slim girder]

Yes we do possess things like HLS drives but we still had to find those places we travel to.

[ember storm]

The mass exodus from Riis was literally called the long drift

[slim girder]

As I said before calus literally just drifted in his leviathan presumably to the edge of the universe.

Space travel unfortunately isn't the most extravagant of things

[dim minnow]

The Hive tear rifts to and from the Ascendant Plane to travel

It's kind of like traveling through the Nether in Minecraft but the distance can be determined by the strength of one's will and mastery over the Ascendant Plane

And while it seems Hive can deploy tombships this way with little issue, it takes a lot of power to immediately summon a massive army through the AP

This was a major plot point in Seraph

Xivu Arath had an entire army waiting in the Ascendant Plane over the Moon, but she couldn't summon it unless she gained enough power through war either from us using the Warsats on her or her using them on us.

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-farquaad-markiplier-deepfake-some-of-you-may-die-but-its-a-sacrifice-i-am-willing-to-male-gif-20850950

Xivu inspiring her soldiers

[dim minnow]

In terms of travel through massive distances, Hive have a pretty decent method of doing so, but not without drawbacks of their own

The Awoken actually used something similar utilizing pathway that lie between out world and the AP known as the Ley Lines

[river surge]

Pure luck I guess

[dim minnow]

Since Mara and her Techeuns have rather potent psychic powers

[dim minnow]

NLS drives

Near Light Speed

[slim girder]

Sry. Wrong key lol

[dim minnow]

Fun fact, we put NLS drives on our sparrows

[slim girder]

Xur used to sell them back in D1 so you could get different colour trails.

Pretty sure though NLS on a sparrow wouldn't be healthy lol

[dim minnow]

Not a problem when you're immortal

[slim girder]

I mean sure but save for Thanatonauts we're mostly trying to avoid needing our ghost to bring us back.
If they wanna test that stuff though I'm not stopping them.

[wheat haven]

so uh, who were the SIVA? genuine question cuz my rank 8 buddy refers to them pretty much everytime i ask a question about some random thingy

like SIVA this SIVA that and all while i talked about the warminds

[ember storm]

SIVA is just nanobot technology

[versed orbit]

Self replicating nanotechnology created during the golden age by clovis bray for colonisation and construction

[ember storm]

notorious for being integral to the plot of the last D1 expansion, Rise of Iron

it's literally just mindless nanotech

[versed orbit]

cool red stuff

[ember storm]

only has a rep because Rasputin used it to kill 8 iron lords back in the day, and then fallen splicers tried using it to enhance themselvs

they fucked up and gave it the command of "consume enhance replicate" without any stipulations so it just went out of control

narratively it really doesn't have anything, all people like is the pure aesthetic or just have blind nostalgia

[wheat haven]

oh

so that’s where that SIVA exotic from D2 comes from?

[trim grotto]

Not that I'm aware of.

[trim grotto]

Outbreak Perfected? Yes, it's essentially a miniature replication chamber firing nanites as weapons.

[wheat haven]

i’d kill for that

wait

if rasputin manipulated SIVA nanites to kill iron lords

did he use fire while being fire already?

[slow berry]

Outbreak Perfected is a re-release of the Rise of Iron raid exotic from Destiny 1, yeah

[wheat haven]

yeah, outbreak prime

my dad used to use it when he first played, he loved that gun so much

[sick yew]

You're not gonna believe this, you can!
Just kill your way through the old tower in the Zero Hour mission

Just beware of Trevor

[wheat haven]

yeah ik, always get stuck at the brig

wait trevor?

[sick yew]

Trevor.

[wheat haven]

ok who's trevor

[sick yew]

Every guardians favorite roomba

[wheat haven]

a shank??

[sick yew]

Nah the thing that roams around the maze roughly at the halfway point of the mission

[wheat haven]

oh

[sick yew]

Tr3v0r i think is its name

[queen swallow]

TR3-VR

Tame Relaxed Triple Vac Roommate

[wheat haven]

it's actually called trevor in the name of the queenbreaker ( i really hope it's still meta, if not i'll be damned)

[sick yew]

Just looked it up, yeah thwt

TR3-VR

[ember storm]

No

Rasputin has nothing to do with SIVA in form or function

They were developed independently with each other and weren’t meant to have anything to do with each other

The iron lords including Felwinter just happened to be searching for it, so Rasputin used it as a trap

Rasputin’s usual form of power was just space lasers and robot drones

[hexed dock]

Does anyone have a good video they can link about the power scaling of guardians?

[blazing wasp]

i dont believe any good one exists

Stories with narrative depth tends to not do anything that could really give us a defined "power scaling" of characters

and destiny has a rather lengthy story with quite a lot of depth to it.

[trim grotto]

So then, yes

[trim grotto]

No. But I have an excerpt from Ikora Rey discussing how ranking Guardians by power is an inherently flawed concept.

[blazing wasp]

thatd be a better answer than mine, yea

[trim grotto]

There is no such thing as a "low-power Guardian." There may be armor you can't actuate or weapons mechanisms you can't understand. There may be techniques you have yet to master and missions you dare not attempt. But the possibility of your Light is unlimited. I mean this very seriously. A novice go player has the exact same power to place stones as a 9-dan master. The only difference between them lies in their knowledge and ability to choose. This is my firmly held and personal truth: the only difference in "power" between you and me lies in what we have learned and practiced.```
```IKO-006 comments: "Guardians insist on treating ‘power' as a monotonically increasing value with a single dimension. Guardians will casually create ordinal ranks of the ‘power’ of their comrades when, in truth (but not in fact—Light is not constrained by facts) capability with the Light is not only a multifactor landscape but strongly and stochastically influenced by circumstantial, personal, and esoteric variables. The Light is, by definition, paracausal and obeys a logic different from physical concepts like charge, heat, or angular momentum. Any analogy to these physical measurements of power' will fail to capture the true efficacy of a Guardian. Instead, we must look to self-understanding, clarity of purpose, and internalized phenomenologies and ontologies. (Witness the self-reinforcing rise of Guardian classes and subclasses as logically consistent and easily transmitted bundles of technique: essentially, Guardian cultural artifacts based on distinct interpretations of the Light; kernel logics from which implementations easily unfold. Or, put differently, optimae of discoverability in a phase space of possible techniques.) The Human or neohuman mind is an agglomeration of automatic processes, and consciousness cannot access most of them; in the same way, most of the truth of the Light is invisible to the self-inspection of the Lightbearer. Asking any Guardian, myself not excluded, to leap through a few experimental hoops is not and never will be an effective way to test either their tactical or their epistemological ability."```

[hexed dock]

So a novice hunter could eventually reach a level that led Ana to shoot her GG so hard it left wells of light?

[jagged badge]

Sure. Because Ana would once have been that novice Hunter herself no?

[hexed dock]

I’d argue no on the basis some are just more gifted at the start

So she might’ve not been that novice hunter herself. But a novice could work their way up

[jagged badge]

Some are prodigies, sure

[hexed dock]

So where do we fall in? We’re clearly “special”

[blazing wasp]

We've got a good grasp on the paracausal but most of our feats come from being clever and fighting dirty

For the record, fighting dirty is a valid skill if you're punching kilotons in weight class above you.

[hexed dock]

In lore aren’t we the only one who can use prismatic and transcend

[hard sigil]

because we are the most experienced with combining light and dark, and the pioneer of the technique. others will follow

and we are most likely (in lore) stronger than Ikora (who is reported as being a 5th sigma percentile ranked guardian in the WQ collector's edition dossier, which is approx. 1 in 3.5 million)

[blazing wasp]

We're very much not even close to ikora in strength

It's a somewhat common misconception that our grander feats are something we do through our own Strength

And stuff like killing rhulk is a way to measure how strong we are, despite very little of our strength factoring in

While power scaling is a fruitless endeavour, if we're to guesstimate, we can maybe debate we're maybe in the top 40s?

[hard sigil]

it's definitely like. doesn't make sense to try to scale something like the light, which by definition is impossible to properly measure

[blazing wasp]

Yes

But we are able to gather we would get curbstomped by ikora

But it's easy to powerscale a hydrogen bomb vs a coughing baby.

Powerscaling in destiny is silly but nobody disagrees we'd win in a 1v1 against a fallen dreg.

It's kinda like that

[trim grotto]

In time that would depend on their aptitude, yes. We all have the same potential.

[trim grotto]

Well, we were one of the earliest Lightbearer adopters of Darkness, and resisted the corruption, outside some few such as Drifter and Shin. To add to that, we were in the initial Fireteam of the Pale Heart. Combine that with the no fly zone, other Guardians simply haven't had a chance to really learn Prismatic - if they're even ready to.

But that doesn't mean we're the only ones who can - just the only ones who have.

[hexed dock]

So why is Ikora currently more powerful than us? We’ve done things even she is in awe of, so presumably things she cannot do

[trim grotto]

Ikora is centuries old, trained under Osiris, has studied the Light more than anyone and has written numerous books on things as niche and detailed as circles in regards to paracausality, was a Crucible legend who was unmatched, underwent ego death, and took such control of her future that she literally Wished herself different.

Ikora is described as one of the most powerful existing Lightbearers who ever existed. We ourselves are certainly powerful, skilled, accomplished. But we also have no direct point of comparison with Ikora, unless you count such things as performing three Nova Bombs in a row during the Red War.

We can say we are strong and cunning, but we cannot truly say we're stronger as far as mastery of the Light goes. We do, however, have more experience with the Darkness than Ikora does.

[hexed dock]

imma need some lore on that ego death and "took control of her future" because that sounds so interesting

[hollow hinge]

Guardians ego farming Kalli by chaining golden guns back in the day:

[slow berry]

I'm fuzzy on the details, but the gist of it is that the steps that lead to becoming a Hidden are basically about removing all identity and being able to be anyone, as need be

"Find thy self." —first dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Know thy self." —second dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Destroy thy self." —third dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Shed thy self." —fourth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Embrace a new skin." —fifth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Become the many." —sixth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"We are as unseen. We are as death." —final dictate, first calling, The Hidden

Additionally, during the Ahamkara hunts, she wished to become someone who couldn't be tempted

Both things combined and Ikora kind of has a very loose sense of self, in a way

[trim grotto]

Hidden Dossier Part 1
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UDF2gZFAVhn6vXjVdgWXO5P1Fdb6VFSMRTyx88Im0es/edit?usp=drivesdk
Hidden Dossier Part 2
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-hidden-dossier

And yes the first part has to be in this format
It isn't on Ishtar

The first half in particular details the concepts listed but really the entire thing is worth a read

[hexed dock]

could this idea of "can't be tempted" be a reason why she got the hang of darkness so quick?

damn destiny lore goes deeper than I originally thought

[queen swallow]

10 hour Byf lore video:

[slow berry]

i love shaxx asking ikora why she quit and she says the answer is twofold: she cannot risk defeat as warlock vanguard have people know her as someone who can be defeated, and she couldn't have kept winning because people would be terrified of the true extent of her power

[hexed dock]

Those two reasons are at odds

[queen swallow]

Correct

If she loses, she'll be known as beatable. If she keeps winning, people will fear her. It is a lose/lose scenario. So the only path forward is to invent a third option: quit. Quiting isn't losing and neither is it winning.

[trim grotto]

This is also covered by the Hidden Dossier

[sick yew]

Terrified of her power? Or exposed as a dirty cheater

I've said it time and time again no clue how Bungie hasn't banned her yet

I'm just saying yk they saw Osiris spam supers and snatched that bros light real damn quick but Ikora has been spamming novabombs with 0 cd for years and they don't do shit

[little gorge]

she's been playing edge of fate this whole time

that's what happens at 200 super

[slim girder]

Ikora might honestly be the first character we see use prismatic both with her mastery of light and her teaching Zavala stasis and her being seen using strand at the end of final shape

My canon for her nova bombs is that she just has skull of dire ahamkara on but with "helmet off" turned on.

[sick yew]

[jagged badge]

No?

They don’t contradict

They’re just reasons accounting for two possible scenarios

[river surge]

I have always wondered why Riven tells us in Last Wish that we are destined to fight forever

[sick yew]

Not sure what shes referencing specifically but I mean that kinda do be us if you think of it

Theres always gonna be something for us to fight thats just who we are

[dim minnow]

The game has to keep going on forever

[slim girder]

That's our nature. Even after defeating the witness there will always be something else for us to fight back against.
The witnesses death has created a power vacuum and now things from outside Sol are starting to become known.

[sick yew]

Tbf if Guardians dont have anything to fight theyre gonna look for something to shoot

It is our nature indeed

[slim girder]

New beings are coming to life like the lord of every nothing apparently hiding and growing in the ascendant plane.

[slim girder]

We're treasure hunters. We love slaying big things and getting loot.

[cloud glacier]

what’s the lore behind Dr Shim anyway

[sick yew]

Who

[cloud glacier]

Ishtar Archives

[sick yew]

John Ishtar

[cloud glacier]

lol

[hard sigil]

part of the team that captured a vex unit and got simulated in the network countless times

[cloud glacier]

ah

Vex Mind Core samples

[dim minnow]

yeah, he was with Maya, Chioma Esi, and Duane McNiadh

[hard sigil]

there 227 Dr. Shims in the network as far as we know

[dim minnow]

they were studying Vex simulations when they found out it was simulating them

[cloud glacier]

lmao

[dim minnow]

the problem arised when they realized they could be simulations and not know it

[cloud glacier]

is everyone a simulation

[dim minnow]

and they know that the Vex will do whatever they want to the simulations in any kind of way

[dim minnow]

there is a real version of those scientists

we know what happened with the real Maya and Chioma

not much on the others though

[cloud glacier]

what happened to them?

[hard sigil]

they solved the problem by allowing Rasputin to intervene because he's like. too smart

[hard sigil]

Went on to found Neomuna on Neptune

[dim minnow]

he was so complex that the Vex couldn't simulate him

[cloud glacier]

do you think the Vex can simulate Guardians

[dim minnow]

then Maya got "killed" communing with the Veil after a lot of morally questionable experimentation

[hard sigil]

that's why they lose to us. they can't simulate paracausality

[dim minnow]

no

at least not yet they can't

[hard sigil]

if we didn't have access to paracausal forces the vex would dominate the universe

[dim minnow]

then Chioma threw herself into the Vex Network due to grief

[cloud glacier]

especially since the only Vex that have seen us have never lived to see the light of day

[dim minnow]

yes

[dim minnow]

after all 227 sets of simulations were rescued, they were all released into the Vex Network to explore

[river surge]

Still miss The Red War ngl, the way Ghaul was imo the only one in the story who truly stole the light and almost ended Guardian agenda, another expansion like Red War would really be nice tbh

[sick yew]

Red War was much cooler in concept than in execution

They nailed the initial opening and the rest of it was just

[river surge]

Yeah

The way our Guardian got everything back so easily was just not good, we shouldve been powerless through the whole campaign

[sick yew]

tbf id be a rather boring game without your abilities

Remember this was D2 vanilla

Imagine getting into a new game and they just outright dont let you use half of the combat mechanics for the entire story

[river surge]

Yeah

About Renegades, I really want light side and dark side abilities, but its up to them if they wanna do that, I still find it a really cool idea

Imagine a side story about a rogue Guardian that went nuts, and tries to eliminate other guardians using dark side

Even tho Renegades will most likely be about Shadow Legion 😭

[trim grotto]

If Renegades involves The Force, that would break my love of the lore.

And I've loved it throughout all the rough patches.

[sick yew]

Yeah I doubt theyll lean like that much into the starwars theme

[sick yew]

I mean the mere existence of Starwars within Destiny kinda breaks the lore

I think theyre gonna go the paralell universe route for that one

Or heavily abridge just how starwars it is

[slim girder]

This is just the aesthetic of star wars though i wouldn't imagine our lightsabers in renegades are tied to kyber crystals or that arc light is like force lightning

[sick yew]

Probably gonna go more of starwars inspired yeah

[slim girder]

It's just a space western vibe that was originally done by star wars first. Dessert, space bounty hunters, black market, etc

[sick yew]

Guess we'll see

[slim girder]

Yeah. I'm excited though. New earth location looks cool and I'm interested in how big this new remote town is or if this new dredgen is wielding their own weapon of sorrow

I'd lose it if it was jana 14

Also something about this underground empire makes me think we're going to see another cabal similar to calus in the whole "big fat boss" like how Jabba the Hutt was.

[sick yew]

New earth location?

Is it confirmed Renegades happens on earth?

[slim girder]

No but the teaser looks very much like something on earth. Dry expanses, sunset.

This honestly looks like some parts of Australia I've been to lol

[hard sigil]

my guess is mars

[sick yew]

Or just a place we havent yet been lol

[slim girder]

My money's on earth but I'm not ruling out mars

[hard sigil]

I doubt we're going extra-solar yet

[river surge]

Thats 100% true

as long as I like the idea

it will 100% break the lore

I dont know exactly I might be stupid but I dont think Destiny will include The Multiverse or has The Multiverse idea where the other forces from different universes will come into the game

the best way is to keep it original maybe add a bit of story wise things from star wars but not include such things as force

[trim grotto]

Renegades is only Star Wars inspired, anyway. It isn't a true crossover.

[river surge]

Yeah

[sick yew]

Anything but a multiverse

[river surge]

FR

JUST DONT

[sick yew]

Its already commendable how overall little Destiny has to rely on alternate timelines or paralell worlds (notable exceptions obviously exist cough cough corridors of time)

[trim grotto]

speaking of which
retro i'd like to enlist your aid in something

[river surge]

Our guardian grave with ergo sum sword hinted from 5 years ago

[sick yew]

"hinted" is a very strong word

[trim grotto]

I would honestly say it was a reused asset. Not in a bad way.

[sick yew]

The idea of what Ergo Sum would do as a weapon didnt come to be until the craftening

[river surge]

Thats right

we didnt have glaives back then

[hard sigil]

you must go to Australia and collect maels 5 Special Collectables, hidden throughout the country

[river surge]

it was all

written to be done in the future

[sick yew]

What do Glaives have to do with Ergo Sum

[river surge]

wait sorry

Not glaives lol

[trim grotto]

sort of
i'm trying to find an actual real source for something that might, if not proven, have caused some major repercussions

[jagged badge]

Oh?

[hard sigil]

oh spooky

[sick yew]

Just spill the damn beans Mael

What are you cooking up again

[trim grotto]

can any of you find an actual verifiable source that states that Tarrabah, as the Destiny community has adopted, actually means Tasmanian Devil

Like actually
Using a source that does not loop back around to Destiny Reddits

[sick yew]

Do we even know much about Tarrabah?

[river surge]

Let him cook

[trim grotto]

The tale goes that it is an Australian Aboriginal name for a Tasmanian Devil, which is what the visual design of the weapon is based on

But the primary name for a Tasmanian Devil is Purinina

[hard sigil]

I can confirm that the other words in the lore tab are correct

[slim girder]

Yes? how may i help?

[river surge]

Bro is cooking hard

[trim grotto]

And every source ends up being a misspelling of Yarrabah or looping back around to Destiny, with the exception of one Wikipedia reference to an offline book that costs $30

[sick yew]

Bros digging deep lmfao

[river surge]

fr

[trim grotto]

I figured someone with some Australian background may have a dash more insight into the issue

[hard sigil]

it's very important to note that there are A LOT of native languages down here

[trim grotto]

This is true

To be entirely clear I am also Australian

[hard sigil]

ganguru, like in the lore tab, is correct for kangaroo, but it's from a language in North Queensland, the opposite side of the whole country

[trim grotto]

Hawkesbury Sea suggests geological shifts to the Hawkesbury River but that is still a massive distance from Tasmania for an already endangered animal
I am very tempted to spend $30 plus shipping to discover the truth here

[hard sigil]

lol

[slim girder]

Yeah i found some info. "tarrabah" is an indeginous word for tasmanin devil. Looked in destinypedia and they might wanna reword it because they way they described is pretty insensitve

[trim grotto]

I also noticed that

[hard sigil]

yeah calling it. that. as the language source is strange

[trim grotto]

Yeah see that's the thing though
Can they source it

[hard sigil]

I do like the idea of a group of Aussie warlocks though that's cool

[sick yew]

Woomera my beloved

[slim girder]

Unfortunately not because we still don't even understand the possibly thousands of languages the indeginous australians spoke in.

[hard sigil]

there's about ~250 that are still spoken enough to be considered alive

but there were thousands

[slim girder]

Like you can tie tarrabah to multiple languages with no way to figure out which one it comes from

That stuff is lost to time and maybe there are indeginous elder communities who might know but haven't been asked

Having learned about it all throughout school one thing for certain is that that whole time period is so mysterious and only told through with stories

[trim grotto]

Yes that's true but Bungie or the writer specifically got it from somewhere
And absolutely nothing suggests it exists but a physical book cited by Wikipedia

[hard sigil]

yeah that's all I can find too

Taraba may just be the name of the story of their creation?

[trim grotto]

Tarrabah the lore entry calls it "sharp-fanged", which is nondescript

[hard sigil]

it may be that taraba / tarrabah was recorded as a name in a language that has since gone extinct

the ONLY other source I can find is a Belgian scouts encyclopaedia

that I had to translate from french

[slim girder]

@trim grotto Think i found something. The palawa kani language from the aboriginal Tasmanian people mostly calls the animal "purinina" but other names like "taraba" and "poirinnah" were used. "tarabah" is just the european translation it seems.

[trim grotto]

That could be useful! Where's that one hiding?

[slim girder]

I just looked up indginous names for the tasmanian devil

kinda went backwards

Instead of looking up the meaning of the word i just looked up what the animal is called by those communities

[hard sigil]

Palawa Kani is a constructed language btw

[slim girder]

There's also a reddit thread on it.

[hard sigil]

it was synthesized in the 90s to patchwork remnants of a few Tasman languages

[slim girder]

Says europeans recorded the language and those names for the tasmanian devil were used.

[trim grotto]

do you have some links? i'm multitasking a bit here haha

[slim girder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/byrw1y/fun_fact_tarrabah_is_another_name_for_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[hard sigil]

"This name is used by the Palawa Kani project, which aimed to synthesize the remnants of Tasmanian languages for use as a lingua franca and for Aboriginal identity. "

a lingua franca is a bridge language to allow for common ground

[slim girder]

Right

at least we have a kind of source for it's name though

[trim grotto]

This doesn't really say anything in and of itself

[slim girder]

Ik i just posted it for reference. I can't share searches so just type "Indeginous names for tasmanian devil" in google

[hard sigil]

if it's the AI overview you're talking about, it's just using the Wikipedia page as a source so it's just a loop

[slim girder]

I know but i tried looking and really couldn't find anything except that. Went into museum websites as well

[arctic iron]

bro just spreading misinfo

never in my life heard it called tarrabah

[trim grotto]

there's some very loose Dreamtime tales of Taraba, which became the Tasmanian Devil

[hard sigil]

there is 1 (one) primary source for this on the internet. makes me think on how bungie even found this

[slim girder]

Again indigenous history is so lost to time that we might never know exactly where tarabah comes from other than what it means. Honestly someone at bungie prolly just looked up the indeginous name for the tasmanian devil, saw tarabah and just rolled with that.

Honestly might have been the only info they had

[trim grotto]

i very honestly wonder how they got tarrabah instead of taraba or purinina were that the case because tarrabah is never referenced and purinina is by and large the most documented term

[slim girder]

Guess tarrabah sounded the coolest to them maybe. More obscure term?

[hard sigil]

yeah tarrabah sounds a lot cooler than purinina

[slim girder]

I know edge of fate is going to be a nine focused expansion but i'm still curious about the winnower. Obviously they wouldn't do anything because that'd go against their logic but considering they said they'd be seeing us i wonder how long it'll take before we see that.

Or if edge of fate is going to give us our new "second knife"

Maybe even the nine know something about the winnower

[sick yew]

Im glad we getting more Drifter content in EoF too

After that final loretab of this seasons lorebook I feared they had essentially written him out for the time being but his ship is visible in one of the promo images of the new destination

[slim girder]

Yeah. Eagerly waiting for that drifter and orin reunion

If the nine are going to be a big part of this new saga i imagine drifter will also be playing a big part

Not only in edge of fate but renegades as well given the dredgen ties

[sick yew]

I dont recall was there an implication that him and Orin had a thing?

Or were they just pals

[hard sigil]

with the light and dark saga ending I have a strong feeling this next saga is dealing with other paracausal forces outside of those two

[slim girder]

Still definitely going to be keeping an eye out for any winnower influence

[sick yew]

There are no paracausal forces outside of those two

[slim girder]

They did. They bonded through pain of loss.

Before orin went out in search of the nine

[hard sigil]

i phrased that badly but I mean like. ascendant plane and the nine and the like

formerly "neutral" forces

[sick yew]

Thats gonna be a funny interaction then

[hard sigil]

which was in response to her finding out he was a dredgen in the past

so probably going to be brought up in the leadup to or in renegades

[slim girder]

No it was a debt to mara sov. becuase in orins previous life before becoming a guardian she left the reef and there was a law that all who leave are forbidden from returning. Orin not knowing about this law came back to the reef because she wished to learn more about her old people

[hard sigil]

oh maybe I misread something

[slim girder]

The "punishment" was that when mara called upon her orin would answer

This is when she was sent out to find the nine because mara suspected the nine to be behind the death of her lover sjur eido

So she was sent out and that's how she became Orin the lost

[sick yew]

I kinda miss those weekly nine quests you got from Xur

I remember doing them back in Arrivals and barely finishing it up before they got sunset

[slim girder]

Yeah those were cool.

I'm very curious to see orins role in this expansion because all the focus has been on lodi for info

All we saw was orin shedding herself

[hard sigil]

you think she gets a severance pay

probably not actually, she quit

[river surge]

Maybe The Traveler, but I dont think the winnower will play a huge role in this saga or even play a role, depends if they wanna still continue the "knife" idea

Still wondering why no one asked in any of the interview something regarding the story, if The Traveler will play a role in the new saga or The Winnower

Btw

During the full reveal of the fate saga we got a codename The Alchemist

For a future expansion, that might actually be a new knife or smth just based on the name

[queen swallow]

Hive deal with magic, not science. I think The Alchemist will be Fallen/Eliksni. We just had Revenant and its story about apothecaries and tonics and whatnot after all.

[slow berry]

maybe we'll finally take a look at The Door

That Speaks Eliksni

And Makes Potions

[sick yew]

Magic and Science are basically the same thing in Destiny lets be real

Theres a magic to scienece and a science to magic in this universe

[slow berry]

what you're saying is: give failsafe some hive runes

[sick yew]

What im saying is give Failsafe the world and more

She deserves it

But if you think about it Light and Dark are functionally closer to magic but generally played off as more of a science

[slow berry]

i really want failsafe to get a body

but not like a human body

thats lame

[river surge]

Ultron style?

[slow berry]

give her whats left of the warmind facilities

[sick yew]

Put her into Insurrection Prime

[river surge]

Yeah, lets hack failsafe take control of the warmind facilities, another expansion/season where we save Sol

Good idea

[slow berry]

idea: failsafe wants to take over whats left of the warmind tech but no one will let her (because xivu arath) and privately asks you to help

we have an expansion about this and at the end it doesnt even register on xivu's radar because failsafe legitimately doesnt give a fuck about war she just wanted a little bodily autonomy

[river surge]

At that point just make her a body host and thats it

[slow berry]

giving her a body is lame and completely counter to what makes failsafe failsafe

a huge part of her character is the descriptions of her doing things or interacting with the world through the lenses of the machines and technology she can manipulate

it's super fun and unique

putting her in an exo would suck, i want her to have the largest possible sprawling network

i want her to be looking at something on mars and her earth satellites start itching

[sleek matrix]

The only problem is bungie is wanting to move away from chatting vendors

[river surge]

I want her to create a shield protecting the Traveler in case another Cabal tries to steal it from us

[sleek matrix]

Fail safe will probably never be mentioned again for years

[slow berry]

idunno, i feel like they have stuff planned with her

[sleek matrix]

Which is sad

[sleek matrix]

I highly doubt it

[slow berry]

it'd even be like a cool mirror to the nine with her body and mind being similar to what the nine have going on

[river surge]

The Nine are higher in dimension maybe she cant do that tho

[sleek matrix]

Oh yea

The nine are alien asf

Were ants to the nine

[river surge]

The nine are just idk

[ember storm]

I mean not really ants

[slow berry]

data dimensions

[ember storm]

We currently have two things that the nine desperately want but cant even comprehend

[hard sigil]

less than ants. we're tools to them. barely consider us alive

[slow berry]

she exists as a number of metrics in a computer

[ember storm]

Physical form and paracausal power

[sleek matrix]

Yes but overall

We are ants to them

[ember storm]

All of their actions have been about achieving one or both of these things

They so desperately want to gain them and we’ve been their only chance at understanding

That’s why gambit exists

[slow berry]

what i'm saying is give failsafe the warmind bunkers and also hive runes

[sleek matrix]

To the overall picture

[river surge]

What about The Gardener and The Winnower

[ember storm]

How

[sleek matrix]

This is bigger than that

[ember storm]

They’re not bigger than us

They’re not stronger than us

[sleek matrix]

The nine

Hello

[ember storm]

They cant understand us at all

[sleek matrix]

R u crazy

[ember storm]

We have things they’ve always wanted

[sleek matrix]

They can manipulate time and gravity

[ember storm]

They’re literally clouds of sentient dust

[hard sigil]

they are. definitely stronger than us, but in a different way than usual

[sleek matrix]

Yes

The power the nine have isnt we u perceive it to be

U lack understanding

[ember storm]

You’re trying to equate power to strength

[river surge]

Not stronger than us, they have more knowledge over stuff that we dont know yet

[sleek matrix]

Power isnt always strength

[ember storm]

It’s not strength at all if they cant use it in any offensive capacity whatsoever

[sleek matrix]

And sometimes it doesn't have to be that

[ember storm]

Do you think they WANTED to let Mercury get churned up into a slurry to fuel the almighty

[river surge]

Imagine giving our Guardian the idea to manipulate space and time

[ember storm]

No because they were literally powerless to do anything about it

They cant affect the world like we do

[sleek matrix]

Theres other way to influence

[hard sigil]

it's like comparing a nuclear bomb to an evil mathematical equation

[ember storm]

That’s the main thing

Their entire goal is gaining physical form

They don’t have that

[sleek matrix]

Dont under estimate the nine

Is all i say

[ember storm]

They tried to use drifter and the emissary to understand us

[river surge]

Resurrected as guardians

[ember storm]

But they literally just cant

[hard sigil]

no?

[ember storm]

How is sentient space dust going to die

And have a corpse to fill with light

[river surge]

Idk

[sleek matrix]

There understanding may be limited but the nine can perceive past present and future

[hard sigil]

they just don't want to be dependent on life in sol existing for their own existence

[sleek matrix]

If u saw the trailer

I wonder what time period those trains are from

[hard sigil]

the light and dark are just means to an end for them

they're quite literally eldritch gods

[river surge]

Idk how we are gonna deal with that

[ember storm]

ehh

[hard sigil]

we're just lucky it's a 5/4 split in our favour for them deciding to keep us around

[sleek matrix]

Well thats kinda why its called the fate saga

[ember storm]

that lord of every nothing is definitely higher than them I’d say

[sleek matrix]

The question of what if what were doing is already set out

[river surge]

What about the winnower

[hard sigil]

the winnower barely exists

[river surge]

Its a concept tho

[ember storm]

Isn’t jury out on whether or not they’re the same thing

[ember storm]

One that speaks

And spoke to us directly

[hard sigil]

it's spoken to us twice, and outside of that only exists in metaphor

[ember storm]

The events in Unveiling are a metaphor yeah but stuff has happened since then

[sleek matrix]

Its hard to know if it has a physical form

[ember storm]

Characters in-universe are wondering what the winnower is

[river surge]

Still dont find that real

[ember storm]

They’re definitely going somewhere

[ember storm]

Y

Yeah

That’s

What a metaphor means

[sleek matrix]

It could exist somewhere in the deep but that connection can be cut off

[hard sigil]

hell from what we have the winnower might be aware of the fourth wall

[sleek matrix]

If theres a force inhabiting the deep

Like the every nothing

[ember storm]

But the pale heart ship literally has Ikora and Mara acknowledging the witness’ words of “we are the first knife of the winnower” and theorizing on what that means

The winnower is an actual being

[river surge]

But think about it, if The Winnower barely exists, it speaks, does that make him real?

[sleek matrix]

Its good we know it exists but i don't think the saga will have much to do with it

[hard sigil]

I doubt we'll ever come in DIRECT conflict with the winnower. just doesn't seem like something we'd kill in a raid

[sleek matrix]

I would hope not

[ember storm]

What

[sleek matrix]

The point of the light and dark saga is we understand is isnt simple as we thought it would be

[ember storm]

You know the only contact we had with the witness for like four years was just a couple quotes at a time

[sleek matrix]

It is real

That is confirmed

[ember storm]

Characters being set up doesn’t mean they’re not real

All we got was a “Shrine of Oryx” in the moon during the first year of D1

Then all of a sudden the taken king shows up

The winnower has had a lot of setup at this point

[sleek matrix]

Has he thou

[hard sigil]

for the record I'd also like to say that the Lord of Every Nothing will at most just be a reason to keep the taken around for a while until they decide to do something with it in a few years

[sleek matrix]

Yes there was some mention in book of sorrrow but not directly

[river surge]

Yeah but I dont really think we will meet him as an enemy for us

[ember storm]

When did i ever say that was happening

You’re saying that it literally doesn’t exist

it very much does

[sleek matrix]

It does exist but who knows if we will ever face off

[river surge]

I am kinda confused over this Winnower stuff, but I am trying to understand it more clearly

[slow berry]

i like the idea that the winnower isn't a physical entity

[sleek matrix]

It doesnt have to have a physical form to be real

Just like the nine are

[slow berry]

it's the living, sentient concept of survival of the fittest

[sleek matrix]

Or even nezarec

We killed nez yet more than likely he is still out there

[ember storm]

Didn’t it literally say it would be coming to meet us tho

[sleek matrix]

Yes

[slow berry]

i do love the winnower saying "my man oryx"

[sleek matrix]

I mean pain and torment can we really defeat that permanently

[river surge]

Winnower actually liked Oryx more than the Witness lol

[sleek matrix]

Can we defeat winnower

[slow berry]

it makes sense

[river surge]

We cant

[slow berry]

the witness wanted to ennact the final shape and basically stop the game halfway

[sleek matrix]

Yes so thats the point of it all

[slow berry]

technically "one single pattern at the end" but sort of like cheating

[sleek matrix]

The winnower wrote us a message

[slow berry]

oryx was playing fr fr

[sleek matrix]

To say it doesnt matter what we do

The choice is being made

[ember storm]

it's like trying to antagonize winter like it says in unveiling

[river surge]

U see maybe The Winnower will once again make an appearence when WE will try to do something like The Witness tried

[ember storm]

you just kinda have to live with the fact it exists and triumph despite it

[sleek matrix]

The winnower and witness are not the same

[river surge]

I know

[sleek matrix]

The winnower didnt want to do what the witness wanted to do

[river surge]

I know

Thats what I am saying

[sleek matrix]

Yes

[river surge]

What if we somehow break the game, or stop it, just like how The Witness tried

[sleek matrix]

The light and darkness saga is truly over

[ember storm]

theres always this funny little quote

Those who peddle the tired gotcha that all life hastens entropy. They are fatuous little nihilists who pretend to prefer no existence to a flawed one. They bore me.```

[sleek matrix]

Its possible in the way future we could come back to this

But for now i don't think soo

[hard sigil]

based on Nacre, the Winnower isn't really even evil

[ember storm]

its just like

[hard sigil]

it's just the grim reaper really

[ember storm]

stupid

[sleek matrix]

You can easily say we are evil

[ember storm]

it literally doesnt do anything

[sleek matrix]

Deathless creatures

Cursed by the traveler