📚lore-discussion

[cloud glacier]

I’m invested in the lore now

it’s juicy

[trim grotto]

It certainly is
It's why I've stuck around

[cloud glacier]

what do you think of the fact that new players who’ve never played D1 will never get to know who Cayde-6 is?

[ember storm]

i mean, eh

majority of players never even played D1

but the campaigns are always available to watch online

[hollow hinge]

TFS:

They'll be confused but he'll still be there

[cloud glacier]

they won’t know what Cayde used to be

they’ll know he was a character from way back and nothing else

[hollow hinge]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cloud glacier]

they won’t get to hear the full extent of his humour and light-heartedness

I wonder what new players think of the Cayde monument

also, who do you think will be most likely to take the Hunter Vanguard position

[ember storm]

like

the guy who currently has it...?

[ember storm]

timeline reflection and cayde's fate is a good enough summary

and again they can go research if they care about itt enough

[cloud glacier]

wait

someone has it?

they say it’s still open

and for some reason in the New Light quest when the Ghost talks about Cayde he directs you to the Drifter

[hollow hinge]

Crow

[cloud glacier]

where the heck do I find Crow anyway

[hollow hinge]

he used to always be at the helm

now he's busy being the hunter vanguard

[cloud glacier]

I don’t see a marker in the Tower

[jagged badge]

He’s not a vendor

He is standing in the Tower though

He’s in the Hangar, where Amanda used to be

[cloud glacier]

also, isn’t it kind of ironic that the guy who killed the Hunter Vanguard is now the Hunter Vanguard himself?

[hollow hinge]

no, it's incredibly fitting

[dapper moss]

thats usually how the hunter vanguards work

[cloud glacier]

what, did Cayde kill the previous one?

[dapper moss]

i forget exactly what its called

challenge of something

[hollow hinge]

the bet

it wasn't quite like that, but no Hunter wants that position

so it's a very fitting punishment

[cloud glacier]

well it’s haunting

it’s depressing is what it is

poor guy who now has his memories back is given a title that will constantly remind him of who he used to be, which he has no control over

[wind bay]

Question about the witch queen lore. From where Im at and what Iv learned oryx, savathun and the last sibling all could have been guardians? But instead we're manipulated by the witness into the hive, was it just the siblings that went underground or their entire race.

[ember storm]

Not quite

The traveler would’ve reached them and granted them gifts and blessings for advancement like the Eliksni or humanity in the golden age

Ghosts were only ever created once and it was at the end of the collapse

The three daughters of the osmium king went into the deep and took on worms and morphs to become the first hive, with all of their followers becoming hive afterward

All other inhabitants of fundament and its system were either hive or killed by them

[ember storm]

It’s not actually

Cayde’s the only one who had it that way, which is the point

Hunters create a dare that puts someone else in the position

Cayde’s dare just happened to be whoever killed him would get it

The previous Hunter vanguard (Andal Brask) had a dare between himself and Cayde, that being which over of the two didn’t kill Taniks before the other would become vanguard

[kindred fractal]

Was the season of the deep cutscene added to lightfall?

[jagged badge]

No

It is viewable in game

But it’s not part of Lightfall’s campaign’s narrative

[wind bay]

So what was oryx doing during this or do we not know? And then considering this would it be right to say the work gods where the first of the true hive? And so far Iv only seen the hive with ghosts do any other faction/race other than the chosen of the traveler ie(awoken,exo,and human)

[ember storm]

Oryx was one of the daughters

Worm gods are entirely different species, not hive

[wind bay]

Oryx was a girl? I thought oryx was a son?

[ember storm]

The three siblings became the first of the hive

[hollow hinge]

Oryx has a son

[ember storm]

Aurash took the king morph becoming male, Auryx

Later renaming himself Oryx

[wind bay]

Oh okay that makes sense. And then crota being his son and crap

[ember storm]

Oryx has five children

[wind bay]

I know nothing of the 3rd sister other than she was the one who killed Osiris or at least that's what Iv heard from this story. I have only ever played the vaulted campaigns when they first ever released.

[ember storm]

Xivu Arath is the hive god of war, and no

It was her high celebrant who killed Osiris’ ghost

Osiris is very much alive

[wind bay]

So if his ghost is dead he cannot resurect?

[ember storm]

yes

Same as Zavala

Also Eris in theory if you remove the throne world

[wind bay]

Did zavala ever have a ghost? I cannot remebr

[ember storm]

yes

He is the Titan vanguard

His ghost dies in final shape

[wind bay]

Ahh okay so currently for my story wise he still has a ghost

I'm doing them in order and Iv started with witch queen light fall is next

And eris is tied to throne world? I assume due to the events that happen in the end of witch queen?

Or is it just her strong connection and ties to the hive

[ember storm]

It was part of the plot of Season of the Witch during Lightfall

[wind bay]

I cannot remeber why she is the way she is destiny 1 was ages ago

Ahh okay

[ember storm]

Eris’ general vibe is because she and her fireteam tried to raid the moon to kill crota, failed, and everyone died aside from her

[wind bay]

So not something I'll really find out due to the season being for final shape?

[ember storm]

She had to scrounge around and survive in the depths of the moon for years

[wind bay]

Ahh okay so she's not some hive hybrid like I hopedxD

[ember storm]

Well her eyes are taken from a hive

[wind bay]

Eh that's just modifications.

[ember storm]

She physically became a hive during season of the witch

And the events of that season inadvertently led her to gain a throne world

[wind bay]

So is she like God of something or just a generic hive now?

Like she looks no different unless I have to play lightfall and whatnot for those things to change in my game

[ember storm]

Seasons are not in the actual dlc

Those seasons are gone now, you can’t play them

You can get a basic rundown of their events in the timeline node in the top right of the director

[wind bay]

Oh okay

So I'll never see her as her hive form?

[ember storm]

Not in game no

[wind bay]

Was thinking it was permanent

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/banished-destiny-2-hive-season-of-the-witch-eris-morn-gif-7589308504273255479

That was the concern

[wind bay]

So currently shes no longer hive? Or is she still hive

[ember storm]

She is human with hive eyeballs in her skull

[wind bay]

Okay

So lightfall involves the third sister then?

[ember storm]

No

[wind bay]

Was just the season?

[ember storm]

Yes

Seasons are largely self contained

[wind bay]

Damn! I was hoping for more on the third sister.

And considering it seems eris defeats her she won't be a future dlc protagonist

[ember storm]

That’s what the current episode is dealing with

Xivu Arath has never been defeated

And she’s still currently out there

[wind bay]

So the current season for the final shape is about her?

[sleek matrix]

The current episode didnt shake things up as much as i had hoped

[ember storm]

They’re setting her up as a main antagonist

[ember storm]

she is involved

[wind bay]

Oh hell yeah

[sleek matrix]

Bungie kinda over hyped it as usual

[ember storm]

she is not the main antagonist and she is not dealt with

[ember storm]

I mean

Xivu is on the warpath again, the taken are falling under a new master, and Savathun is incredibly pissed off at us specifically

That is all different than it was before

[sleek matrix]

Xivu is always on a war path

[ember storm]

No, she was the witness’ lapdog for four years straight

[wind bay]

So doing the season for the final shape progressions it's story or no?

[sleek matrix]

Tha taken stuff is good but idk how relevant that will be in the future

[ember storm]

Nothing she did was of her own desires

[ember storm]

Seasons always follow the dlc

They release over the course of the year

[sleek matrix]

She is a pawn of the sword logic

Playing the same game

[wind bay]

Because I really wanna finish with h queen and the go into the final shape and don't wanna skip but really wanna find out more about aurath

So I gotta play the content for the final shape to do anything about the season

[sleek matrix]

Final shape is the reason we get the episodes

But each ep is self contained

[wind bay]

Ah okay

Damn rip I'll just finish my story's and catch up I guess

[brittle dirge]

Don’t know if anyone else has caught this cool detail by the warden in the warden of nothing strike falsely claims the people it’s summoning are old d1 prision of elders bosses

the voice lines in question:
https://youtu.be/OYDgCT9vTxg

the people actually being summoned:
https://www.destinypedia.com/Zhagal,_Disgraced_Colossus
https://www.destinypedia.com/Edyx,_Exothermic_Mind

vs prison of elders bosses:
https://www.destinypedia.com/Val_Aru'un
https://www.destinypedia.com/Overmind_Minotaur

this can be believed that the warden has gone so insane it believes the people it is summoning are the same as the ones we have already killed

[frigid sparrow]

you may have a point about it being insane

[brittle dirge]

I copied and pasted the link how tf

Ok it’s fixed now

[frigid sparrow]

it's likely the prison outbreak was too recent for it to repair itself, so it remained in a malfunctioning state that led to the less "formal" contest in warden of nothing

whereas it had years after the strike to repair and enough escaped prisoners to get the prison, and by extension the contest of elders, back under some control for the more "formal" contest we compete in there

[brittle dirge]

I do agree I think that’s truthful

As it acknowledges things as shadow legion and dread

The prison outbreak was very very recent for the strike which made the insanity it had

Its still insane, but more functionally insane now

[ember storm]

every single line from the warden is an old one aside from the beginning of the boss encounter

[wheat flower]

Question

If we destroyed the warden in warden of nothing

How is it still up in revenant?

[brittle dirge]

I’m well aware I just noticed this

And I thought it was cool

[ember storm]

it was repaired between the time of forsaken and now, seemingly

[brittle dirge]

The warden can repair itself according to variks

[ember storm]

it has been seven years

[frigid sparrow]

Eido: Drifter told me this Warden Servitor was supposedly destroyed.
Variks: There are procedures in place should the Servitor sustain damage… It may have slowly repaired itself.
Eido: Maybe Fikrul raised it from the dead.
Variks: Please… do not make such jests.

[brittle dirge]

Yes this line

[frigid sparrow]

now, how it repaired itself from this? uhhhh

[brittle dirge]

So, what I believe is the warden is a special kind of servitor where its ai is put into the entirety of the prison of elders

The servitor shell acts more as a vessel than the actual body and each time it is destroyed, the ai within the prison creates a new one using the blueprints of variks’ original idea

[frigid sparrow]

from Most Loyal:

Days later, Variks performed his duties for the last time. He visited central control. Ran a test sim on the security systems, made some adjustments based on the results. Revised and signed off on the daily roster rotations. Finally, he had a private conversation with the prison's sole remaining High Servitor: The Prison of Elders would not go without a warden.

[brittle dirge]

oh that’s interesting

[frigid sparrow]

additionally, the servitor wall he used was fucked up because he tried to cure fikrul

[brittle dirge]

So am I stupid or does that little segment imply there was multiple wardens

[frigid sparrow]

But the secrets of Fikrul's… mutation… eluded him. The power within was obvious. Scattered about the floor was the evidence of its potency—as well as too many nights of failure: wrecked sentry Servitors, dozens of deflated Dregs, all pulled from the upper cellblocks to act as his "assistants." Whatever this cold unnatural (ether) was that coursed through Fikrul, it could not be transferred or ingested like the Ether his people needed to sustain their wretched lives.

Variks was all too ready to give up, send Fikrul into the arena to face Cayde-6, and put an end to the legacy of the Scorned Barons—until one day, during Variks's rounds, Uldren spoke to him unprompted. There was a lucidity in the discarded prince's eyes, a clarity that didn't exist even before he disappeared over Saturn's rings. Uldren gave Variks a… fresh perspective.

And so, the chain. It was a dangerous gamble, mingling Fikrul's polluted lifeblood with traditional Ether. These Servitors held seventy percent of Variks's own Ether reserves. If this failed… well, it wouldn't be the first time Variks had risked everything and lost.

[ember storm]

its a servitor, they're just ai programs

[frigid sparrow]

there was a bad word in there that the server doesn't allow

[ember storm]

the only "sentient" ones are primes

can be copied otherwise

[brittle dirge]

Excuse me what

[frigid sparrow]

(ether) referring to drinks

[brittle dirge]

Ohh

[brittle dirge]

True, but this one feels different

It’s obviously sentient in some way if it’s trying to be like variks

[ember storm]

it's not trying to

its programming just got corrupted

[brittle dirge]

(Even if that’s what it was designed to do)

[ember storm]

it synthesizes his voice while also using old voiceclips

it thinks it is the Warden, not variks as a person

variks was the Warden so it acts like the Warden

[brittle dirge]

this is semi-true

according to a revenant dialogue it believes variks is a faker

[ember storm]

because he tries to use a command as the warden

it doesnt care about him otherwise

it is the warden now, he is not

it does not call itself variks

[brittle dirge]

From revenant first run tomb of elders:

Variks: Enough. Variks demands you initiate shutdown! Override code: Loyal.
Warden AI: Doppelganger Lockout Protocol in effect. Ha-ha-haptic interface connections — severed.
Variks: Doppel…? Prison of Elders belongs to Variks!
Warden AI: Fight. Win. Live. Face judgment.

[ember storm]

it refers to itself in the third person as Warden

[dim minnow]

like Variks

[ember storm]

variks also calls himself variks

the warden does not adopt the identity of variks as a whole, exclusively his characteristics while running PoE because that's what the Warden is

[brittle dirge]

and the warden calls itself the warden because that’s what the ai assigned it to be

But it never refers to variks as anything, at all

But it believes he is a false warden

[dim minnow]

though according to Drifter in Warden of Nothing, the servitor does think it is Variks

[ember storm]

because he's not the warden anymore, he gave it up

[brittle dirge]

Exactly

Let me grab the dialogue

[ember storm]

there is only one warden and it is there and he is not

drifter also say dumb things

[brittle dirge]

Warden of nothing:
Ghost: Is that Variks?
Drifter: Haha,hell no. Variks left his pet Servitor behind and the thing went nuts, thinks it IS him. It's running the whole prison through some kinda combat drill.

Also:

Drifter: Don't mind the PA — that's the Warden's Servitor. Thing shorted its brain when the Warden left the prison. It thinks it IS the Warden, uses a print of his voice. It's running a combat subroutine called "Challenge of the Elders."

Warden here is capitalized, implying variks as it is one of his titles

[ember storm]

that is the words that he said yes

but i really don't think it literally thinks it is variks as an individual, as it is a flying metal ball without limbs, i don't think it reminices about the past of riis or the deaths of the houses

it is a corrupted program acting as the warden, with its sole purpose being the control of the prison

[frigid sparrow]

why is the strike titled warden of nothing when the servitor is the warden of the prison that still has prisoners in it? is drifter stupid?

[ember storm]

why did drifter say he would sell the prison to spider which never happened? is he broke?

spider is the king of never fulfilling deals

he just doesnt fucking do anything

said he would have a team clear the prison out for the awoken to reclaim, never happened at all

[frigid sparrow]

just wait for renegades when they give him a chance to fulfill a spotlight and then not fucking do anything

[ember storm]

3 entire new armies just walk in and set up shop

[ember storm]

yeah thats my thought to

bungie is acting like the criminal underground is something thats never been touched before

and the bad boss is a new dredgen apparently

so nothing to do with spider or the old crews

[brittle dirge]

Just because it does not possess or have the defining in-depth features of variks’ life or personality doesn’t mean it doesn’t believe it is because it does

When you steal someone’s identity you don’t become Hush from Batman and take every little part of them, you simply take their name and their general characteristics

[frigid sparrow]

I really wish they did something with spider being his own "syndicate" and not really being a part of a formal house in revenant since he is his own "kell" so to speak

[ember storm]

you steal someone's identity because you want to take something that they own for your own gain

the servitor did not decide to do this

it literally broke

[frigid sparrow]

like he speaks up in onslaught salvation even though he isn't even a part of the story???

[ember storm]

Variks' inpromptu departure from the prison just broke it

[ember storm]

silly he speaks once or twice in act 2

he helps eramis break out

[brittle dirge]

But it broke and became “variks” in a way

[frigid sparrow]

once or twice
holy fuck

[brittle dirge]

It believes it is

[ember storm]

this is just semantics im dropping the convo

gotta laundry

[brittle dirge]

The only reason spider was in revenant was for the VH quest line and because he’s mithrax’s brother

[frigid sparrow]

spider was secretly the most important character in revenant..

it pisses me off how there's a really good dialogue that you can't fucking hear because bungie is dumb with onslaught

[brittle dirge]

True(!)

[ember storm]

mithrax

[frigid sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=UPdFiRfR07g

[ember storm]

and not brother

they were just crewmates

[brittle dirge]

Why did I write variks am I stupid

[ember storm]

Spider's brother was in kells scourge and we killed him

[brittle dirge]

erm

they are brothers

[ember storm]

they were not born from the same mother

have they ever called each other brothers?

that is not something i remember them doing

[brittle dirge]

From The Whispering Dark:

“We had sailed the Long Drift for centuries, but I had yet to come to terms with our new reality. My son had only borne witness to a fraction of it. He was still young, still struggling to understand his place in the world. The two children from the House of Dancers, Rakis (spider) and Siviks, were slightly older and had become his reluctant friends. They protected him from the adolescents who would steal his Ether when I wasn't looking. It was not a family to me, not truly. I had yet to understand that Ketch is kin.”

They are all adoptive brothers but still brothers

[ember storm]

it was not a family to me

so she didnt adopt them

is that what my saturday evening is

[brittle dirge]

She also says “not truly”

She does believe it’s a family in some captivity

She cared for the children

[ember storm]

because she was literally forced to

[brittle dirge]

From The Long Drift:

“Eramis was no longer the meek child I once knew; that much was certain when I greeted her aboard my Ketch. She brought two hatchlings with her, just barely old enough to walk on their own. They were mischievous little things, the round one (spider) constantly trying to tug the taller one's (siviks) arms off until Eramis disciplined them. I carried my son, swaddled to my chest, as a show of trust.”

[ember storm]

they were eramis' orphans

by the by this is all still just the perspective of mithrax's mother

[brittle dirge]

I know

I believe Mithrax sees spider as a brother in some capacity

[ember storm]

have spider and mithrax ever mutually called themselves family? all of their interactions have just been referring to their dynamic of mithrax being the captain who abandoned them

they never treat it as a "you left your brothers to starve"

[frigid sparrow]

only a brother would do something like this

Spider and Siviks are basically adoptive brothers to Mithrax because Inaaks took them in ❌
Spider and Siviks are basically adoptive brothers to Mithrax because Mithrax left them to die in space ✅

just brotherly love

[ember storm]

i like the visual confirmation that spider was always just a fat bastard, nothing to do with his mob boss lifestyle, he's just lazy in general

i've seen people say it's due to ether consumption, somehow

which is not true

ether consumption makes you grow physically, spider is literally just fat

[frigid sparrow]

secret lore: spider's fascination with golden age humanity is due to him having watched the sopranos and going "haha, I really like that tony guy" and dedicating his life to that

[ember storm]

ARRHA BRING ME THE GABAGOOL

[frigid sparrow]

Siviks probably felt so betrayed in this scene-

[ember storm]

also lol

But the Spider's acquiescence would not be so easily bought. In fact, Ahrrha thought, the Spider could probably own this settlement within a year. The generosity and goodwill of House Light would soon crumble to greed and hubris, as they all did. And once Spider's syndicate had a foothold, they would make the Vanguard pay. In Glimmer, weapons, Ether, and blood.

most well-adjusted fallen

[frigid sparrow]

how was arrha planning to have the vanguard pay in ether when they had like 1 barely functioning servitor? is he stupid?

[ember storm]

same way lakshmi was getting upset that mithrax wasnt helping us solve the vex simulation while inciting her followers to destroy his community and starve his people

[frigid sparrow]

man

I'm still pissed about the one fallen who got murdered because of amanda

[ember storm]

someone should call her out for it

oh wait

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-season-of-defiance-amanda-holliday-shipwright-gif-1657078308884676909

[frigid sparrow]

shattered cipher is still honestly probably one of the most horrifying lore tabs

Her voice was small. "Mama, what did you do?"

[ember storm]

i know ikora said we never use our power against lightless civilians but uh

what if some of them really really suck huh did you think about that

[frigid sparrow]

imagine a newer player not having the context of splicer and getting the re-released guns with lore just detailing the horrific hate crimes happening towards the eliksni

actually maybe it's a good thing we didn't get shattered cipher back

because like jesus christ they were actually breaking bad'ing some poor dregs

Vriiksis deserved better

bro should've been let on Aisha and Shayura's fireteam after Reed-7's death 💔

[clever notch]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTjy3rRo1/

[next bobcat]

This kind of post generally belongs in #🏆destiny-media

[pure oracle]

How is Star Wars going to fit into all this? Cosmetics wer one thing, but now I'm confused.

[frigid sparrow]

it's just inspiration

similar to how the 30th anniversary gave us halo related stuff like Forerunner and BxR, we're getting explicit stuff in the form of the DL-44 Blaster and the lightsaber

[ember storm]

bc theyre still just cosmetics

the dark side ornament sets arent canon

[pure oracle]

So ... Just a heavily Star Wars aesthetic season?

[frigid sparrow]

Renegades' story, however, will still be set in the destiny universe in destiny canon with destiny characters

[ember storm]

we are going to a desert location with laser guns & swords to fight a crime syndicate

we're not interacting with any star wars concepts or characters

[pure oracle]

Yeah, but. Are we gonna get Spider as Jabba the Hut? I guess I have too many questions to answer. I'll just have to see. But definitely sounds like you're describing Jabba.

[ember storm]

spider was literally alread a jabba inspired character from his conception, but no

[pure oracle]

Wow. All these years, I never once made the connection. They're like the same guy.

[ember storm]

well spider is actually nuanced and has character

he has a soft spot for classic human art

jabba is literally just fat guy spouts jibberish and then dies

[frigid sparrow]

SPIDEEER COLLABORATE WITH LYSANDER AND THE CONCORDAT AND MY LIFE IS YOUR

[pure oracle]

That makes sense. The Fallen seem to appreciate human culture. Well, the guitar at least.

[dim minnow]

Renegades being Cabal centered is extremely likely

especially since a motif from Resist the Legion can be heard at the end of the trialer

[frigid sparrow]

I would say fallen for obvious reasons but surely bungie wouldn't do 3 fallen themes expansions one after another

but also shadow and order sounds a lot like a cabal centered update so uh yeah

[dim minnow]

maybe they can be a side antagonist race

[frigid sparrow]

If anything we might see red legion remnants in renegades (mercenaries) with shadow legion/psion conclave for S&O

[dim minnow]

well, Calus had mentioned that the Cabal Empire had several Athenaeum worlds full of secrets that were lost

maybe an unheard of Cabal legion rediscovered them

or maybe the Shadow Legion does

[frigid sparrow]

EoF is also bringing back House Exile, so could be a similar scenario to that with a particular cabal faction

[dim minnow]

it would be hard to imagine the Red Legion making any sort of comeback

even harder to imagine any Cabal Legions from D1 doing the same

hell, I'm wondering how the hell House Exile, the weakest of the D1 houses, managed it

[frigid sparrow]

yeah I only say red legion since that's the models used for the mercenaries in plunder

and the justification for them being red legionaires who didn't side with calus or caiatl

and EoF is playing with some timey wimey stuff but it's incredibly funny how bungie refuses to do anything interesting with dusk

incredibly negative aura faction how do they do it

[hollow hinge]

Which I'm pretty sure they said was the Cabal

I sent that before reading the rest, yall are well aware of that lol

[dim minnow]

the funny part is that it seemed like Bungie was trying to build them up back in TFS when they showed that Eramis was trying to buy resources from them

[frigid sparrow]

WHAT
FUCKING
RESOURCES

[dim minnow]

don't recall

maybe ships

fuel?

[frigid sparrow]

"House Dusk, what may you have to offer!?"
"uhhhhh we got half a servitor shell and a few shock pistols"

[dim minnow]

ok, so it seems like House Dusk was trying to give Eramis a Prime Servitor in exchange for weapons

[frigid sparrow]

A PRIME SERVITOR!?

FOR WEAPONS!?

[dim minnow]

and according to Micah-10, this implies that Dusk either has more of them, or they have an alretnative means of gaining Ether

[fervent sandal]

What exactly is the little blue tag thing on zavalas neck?

[dim minnow]

you know, I'm not sure that was ever talked about

a tattoo?

[fervent sandal]

I guess yeah

[fervent sandal]

Ew non bald zavala it doesn't look right lol

[trim grotto]

Yeah it's certainly a different look haha

I don't believe it's ever been referenced, at least to my knowledge, but the concept art shows this at least

[eager trout]

Lieutenant Zavala

[cloud glacier]

Not Depressed Zavala

[next bobcat]

sooo

what is the artifact at the end of shadowkeep?

[trim grotto]

In some ways, a radio. It is how we received Unveiling.

And got that message from the Witness, in our form.

[eager trout]

Hol' up, what artifact?

[trim grotto]

The orb within the Luna Pyramid

[eager trout]

What orb?

[trim grotto]

We recovered it in the final mission

[eager trout]

I don't remember

[next bobcat]

unveiling my goat

additionally, how is ikora just standing on mars

like how do people just... survive on other planets

[slim girder]

Traveler terraforming

[next bobcat]

gives them breathable atmospheres?

[slim girder]

Pretty much it seems. She did the same on io

[next bobcat]

so then the traveler has terraformed all the planets essentially

weird

mars doesn't... look terraformed

[slim girder]

Well think neither was earth. Terraforming doesn't alwayd have to be something crazy. Mars just got a breathable atmosphere and that allowed braytech to thrive there

It was all about advancement thanks to the traveler

[next bobcat]

mmm

i see

what about places like the dreadnought?

[eager trout]

What about Europa?

[next bobcat]

its exposed to the vacuum of space

[eager trout]

Why are Drifter and Eris just...there?

And why did Clovis think it was a good idea to have a colony there if you can't even breathe-

[slim girder]

They were there to help elsie and are the "dark vanguard"

[eager trout]

I mean how can they be there without any protection

[slim girder]

I wish i did have an answer but from assumptions the traveler gave many planets livable atmospheres. It is stil obviously cold but breathing oxygen is still there

[ember storm]

It’s a throne world

Got pocket

Hive do in fact needs to breathes with lungs

[next bobcat]

wow

lore

do guardians need air?

[ember storm]

Yes

[next bobcat]

what can guardians survive without

[ember storm]

Nothing

Except food but that’s a technicality

Guardians are still living breathing people

[next bobcat]

elaborate?

[ember storm]

you can starve to death and your ghost revives

thats what difter did

over and over

[slim girder]

Same goes for sleeping. They might not need it but it's the healthy thing to do. Even more so for exos as it prevents their mind rejecting their robot body.

Immortal doesn't mean you aren't subject to basic needs

[next bobcat]

mmm

so additionally, if you were adrift in space, your ghost could just revive you over and over

what if you didn't want to keep being revived?

[slim girder]

Sure. But that and falling from a high place are 2 of the worst ways for guardians to go.

[dim minnow]

Crow knows what that's like

[dim minnow]

the falling one feels like it's more of Crow's personal opinion

[slim girder]

I mean I kinda get it though. Depending on how high it's not instant like say a chaperone to the chest.

You just gotta wait for the inevitable impact

No matter how many times you die even guardians are probably still somewhat afraid of it

[ember storm]

andal kept drowning in the middle of the ocean

[ember storm]

not thanatonauts

they LIVE for it

[dim minnow]

they die for it as well

[slim girder]

Yeah idk what's up with those nutjobs

What's the idea again? Visions during being resurrection right?

[dim minnow]

visions while being dead

[ember storm]

i can feel it

[slim girder]

What sorts of visions? Anything of note?

[dim minnow]

there was the Black Garden dream

[cloud glacier]

how does our Ghost revive us at checkpoints if we die in Darkness zones

[dim minnow]

the one where I think his name was Punjari was cut by a thorn from a Ghost-shaped flower

[slim girder]

That's just because video games

[dim minnow]

deaths in darkness zones are not canon

[cloud glacier]

:(

[slim girder]

That one i know. "You are a dead thing"

[cloud glacier]

I thought it was either that the Ghost teleported us out of the Darkness Zone somehow or Elsie Bray initiated a time loop

[dim minnow]

I think thanatonauts also helped in the creation of Hard Light

[slim girder]

No again it's just because video games

[cloud glacier]

I love video games

[dim minnow]

a thanatonaut also helped Eris and Ikora create "death anchors" to tether a ritual they were doing with the Crown of Sorrow

let's see, the creator of the Mask of the Quiet One had some experience in thanatonautics

which aided in the helmet's creation

[slim girder]

Just read the lore. No mention of them

Unless it's in the D1 grimoire card

[dim minnow]

it is

[next bobcat]

yeah the ornament is called thanatonaut's peril iirc

[cloud glacier]

hey Zoup

[wind bay]

After finishing witch queen. Does anyone else side with savathun?

I feel we where the bad guys and she was just trying to protect the traveler. Atleast from my point of view and everything I saw

[dim minnow]

literally everything she did was for her own benefit

maybe she kinda saw us as friends in the Hive way, but that would include her meddling with us (which she does a lot)

[trim grotto]

Savathûn and the Hive were tricked, but do not forget who they are. Savathûn is an eons old xenocider, slaughtering untold billions, ending worlds and species. Savathûn's actions may have protected the Traveler, but it would mean abandoning everyone else. The Light of the Guardians would likely have been cut off, our fight lost, Humanity eradicated against the paracausal might of the Black Fleet, simply because Savathûn chose the selfish path and did not lend her aid until we forced her hand.

[hot cypress]

you think guardians might watch old films of like pre golden age stuff? like would they watch shrek?

[slim girder]

In my canon they do.

Like mine likes listening to avenged sevenfold

[hot cypress]

mine would be listening to like NCS music like alan walker and then just move like very sweaty gamers who would slide 24/7

[slim girder]

Mine enjoys exploring ruins and looking for any kind of power or knowledge. Especially stuff on ahamkara or dark stuff like thorn.

[hot cypress]

mine just doesnt know how to talk to people cause he is so shy unless he has emotes and everytime he doesnt have the emote for the right situation, like someone dying, he has to go the EVERVERSE STORE BUY THE EMOTE and then come back and use it

[next bobcat]

Oh damn someone died
one quick eververse later
(Sad emote)

That’d be hilarious

[wind bay]

I feel if we could have at least tried to work together with her. Lol

[trim grotto]

Savathûn had been actively working against us for years on years. She cursed the Dreaming City. She took over Osiris's body for an entire year, manipulating our poltics and trying to get us to kill each other. She blanketed the Last City in the Eternal Night, leading to an attempted coup, a rebellion, and nearly the extermination of the House of Light.

She has not exactly made it easy to work alongside her.

[wind bay]

Oh damn didn't know she was Osiris and did that for that long, during which dlc was it beyond light?

[ember storm]

Started from then on yes

[trim grotto]

Beyond Light through to Witch Queen itself. Four seasons, full year.

[wind bay]

Ahh yeah I skipped that story

It only mentions her being Osiris briefly on WQ

[pastel barn]

What does the Destiny logo mean?

[empty fern]

It means it’s the destiny logo

[pastel barn]

Absolute cinema

[jagged badge]

[warm zephyr]

so are the 9 on the same side as each other or are they going to fight each other?

[sick yew]

"Make known your value so divided God's may wield you in time"
-Orin, Emissary of the Nine

They're all their own entities, some have aligning views, some don't

[trim grotto]

We don't actually know, ironically. However, I'd wager it's something as simple as representing the Traveler, as it was worn both by the Speaker and by the members of Ares One.

[warm zephyr]

so there's a good chance that each of the nine might be fighting each other

[trim grotto]

The other faction walks a different path. A path of folds and needles slipped through spacetime itself, existential syringes yielding new spaces, to be remade as the Nine desire. They have tried to gather enough dark dust in one place to form a black hole, and found it difficult: when the dark mass collapses in gravity's fist, the dust passes through itself and scatters.```

The Nine, according to our older knowledge, attempted to fulfil the same end goal with two different methods. One group sought out paracausality, and the other tried to do it themselves. Both have the same goal of ending their dependence on the life and gravity of Sol.

Does this mean they will fight between one another? No, I expect not - because in the end, they all want the same thing. But it's hard to say what this expansion will bring.

[ember storm]

dova said they could be based on that one personality chart thing

which is neat in concept but also i dont want a repeat of the forsaken campaign which just ended up being 7 missions of killing the stereotypical koopalings

[frigid sparrow]

The nine from mercury must be pissed off that we still haven't recovered their planet

[dim minnow]

their fault really

they shouldn't have let the Red Legion get that close to us

[ember storm]

me when i fuck up the ant farm and my friends make me get a lobotomy

[frigid sparrow]

Damn, this really is nine sols...

[little gorge]

the nine ⁉️

[frozen pawn]

*raise hand

what is the nine?

they made of dark matter, we can't see dark matter normally, so basically they are invisible & they may be next to us all the time?

[dim minnow]

sentient clouds of space dust bound to the gravity of Sol's planets and sun

[frozen pawn]

isn't that... C'tan?

[dim minnow]

the Dust lore book (specifically the last two pages) do a good job of explaining

[dim minnow]

I'm not into Warhammer 40k lore so idk

[frozen pawn]

let me try look this up

[dim minnow]

Ishtar collective

[frozen pawn]

So the Nine awoke. And in time they understood that they were as fragile as they were mighty; for if the life that seeded their thoughts ever passed away, they too would vanish.

what does this mean?

[dim minnow]

if we all die out, they're fucked

[frozen pawn]

ohh

[trim grotto]

The Nine themselves are essentially Boltzmann Brains. I recommend the lore book Dust if you want to learn of the Nine, particularly the aptly named entry within it, The Nine.
The Nine exist as loops and swirls of Dark Matter that were caught in the gravitational wells of the celestial bodies of Sol. These loops are their body, and their mind is the life across the Solar System. Without gravity, they don't exist. Without life, they cannot think.
The Nine, while operating in two major groups with two different paths, all want one goal - freedom and independence. Freedom from the shackles of life and gravity.

||With a horror of revelation so absolute that it would drive her mad if she still had sanity to lose, Lavinia understands where the Nine have always been. They are within everyone, every system, every living and moving thing. Trillions and pentillions of slim dark matter tentacles plunged through all our bodies, drinking up the complexity of our lives and thoughts.

We are all pinched silhouettes impaled on the twitchings of infinitely long spiderlegs.||

[trim grotto]

Without life, they have no thought. Without gravity, they have no body.

[frozen pawn]

so, even if they are strong, they still "need us" in order to survive ?

and some of them want to fuck us up ?

[trim grotto]

The Nine harbor no direct ill will towards us. They simply seek to be free from the very shackles that give them their form.

[dim minnow]

if they think it will help them figure out a way to no longer need to rely on us, then yes

[dim minnow]

well, we can't be sure all of them don't hate us

as Bungie said, they are individuals with their own thoughts and opinions

[frozen pawn]

wait, if we are gone, they gone too, then why the hell none of them step in when Witness come?

[trim grotto]

Well, allow me to rephrase. With the information currently presented to us, the Nine are an independant faction who aren't actively working against us to our knowledge. They rely upon us, yet desire to be free from us.

[trim grotto]

Well, for all that the Nine are, they are not paracausal.

Their strength is limited, particularly given that the climax of the battle took place within the Traveler - most likely outside of their purview.

[frozen pawn]

you mean they can't impact the material world much?

oh

[dim minnow]

the Nine are also pretty inefficient

as Orin described them, they are no more efficient than a consensus meeting

[trim grotto]

Causality is physics. Cause to effect. Paracausality, however, is something different. Light and Dark. Magic, you could say. The Nine are fascinating, yet causal. The Witness is something that was likely beyond them.

But also, yes, they rarely directly impact the material world. Their might can form Nine Realms/Unknown Space/The Haul, and it once blinded us to the Red Legion, but they aren't exactly... throwing stones, shall we say.

[dim minnow]

they can boil your brain though

but since we're Guardians, we can use our own Light to protect ourselves from such an attack

hmmm, I wonder what other attacks like this we can protect ourselves from with our Light

[frozen pawn]

*raise hand

[trim grotto]

shoot

[frozen pawn]

Orin is the Emissary of all the nines or only one ?

[dim minnow]

all of them

they use her as a speaker

[frozen pawn]

hmm

[dim minnow]

I suppose the Emissary is technically a separate personality

[sick yew]

That's at least what the recent voicelines and stuff make it seem like

[dim minnow]

I'm pretty sure that was confirmed back when Prophecy came out

[frozen pawn]

[dim minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0iQ5dJlPdk

Orin herself seems to confirm that she and the Emissary are separate personalities

now I wonder, is that really Orin in the Edge of Fate trailer

or is it the Emissary?

[sick yew]

The one that literally breaks out of her?

[dim minnow]

like, is it Orin or the Emissary breaking free?

[trim grotto]

I... think that's fairly clearly implied.

[dim minnow]

because she still has the hood on when she is free

[sick yew]

You're thinking too hard about it Dova

[dim minnow]

probably

she has the titan armor on

[trim grotto]

The one wearing Titan armour is probably the Titan.

[sick yew]

Shocker

[dim minnow]

but the Emissary hood is still there

[trim grotto]

It might just be her hood.

[sick yew]

She kept it cause it looks cool

[frozen pawn]

I thought a dude crawling out of her for a second...

[sick yew]

[dim minnow]

is it maybe multiple personalities?

[trim grotto]

Dova I have to agree with Alex here

[sick yew]

Rough isn't it

[dim minnow]

like it's not just Orin, but Nasya, Nasan Ar, and maybe the Emissary

[sick yew]

The first cutscene from rite of the nine

You seen it Dova?

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-fives-clone-trooper-fives-star-wars-clone-wars-gif-25445851

[sick yew]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1119631192816357526/1369416230146146375/Replay_2025-05-06_20-18-08.mp4?ex=68225f3f&is=68210dbf&hm=713e4c17a183931c806b19c90a2f63864c5d979f7708093dd1fd5b0f4825d3be&

[dim minnow]

yeah I seen it

[sick yew]

I think it makes it pretty clear there's Orin, struggling for her freedom and the Emissary

Also side note I really like how the pupils change between the two uh entities in control

[frozen pawn]

also, back away from the nine thing.

According to vesper host lore, it seem the fallen who connected to the other side was driven to madness.

And the "Lodi" guys is on the other side so... he's a potential bad guy?

Btw he look exactly like Gordon Freeman to me

sry for my English btw >"<

[trim grotto]

We don't really know enough about Lodi to say. He seems to be a bit of a victim, actually. If he is a "bad guy", I am not sure if he means to be.

[cloud glacier]

have there been any lore retcons in Destiny

[trim grotto]

Yes, but fewer than some grumps would suggest.

[cloud glacier]

certainly not as bad as WoW I’d think

[trim grotto]

Actual, legitimate retcons are few and far between. Some things are recontextualised, some things even turned out to be wrong or lies, but rarely was it retconned. It's pretty much always addressed.

[cloud glacier]

that sounds much better than Halo

which retcons its story with every game

[blazing wasp]

The most "retcon" we usually get is something vague being explained and the explanation wasn't the common interpretation

[frozen pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlylquFX6EE

Lodi voice in this trailer is kinda strange... something machine like in the end

[cloud glacier]

which isn’t retconning, just subversion

[frozen pawn]

explain why they don't have time to explain xD

[trim grotto]

The most egregious "retcon" is discovering that there weren't multiple Warminds, but one Warmind, Rasputin, who had numerous subminds, such as Charlemagne. However, there are other AI "siblings" to Rasputin nonetheless, despite not being Warminds.

Still, it's probably what you'll hear as the main "retcon" of Destiny.

[cloud glacier]

also explain who they’re talking to

is it Clovis Bray?

[trim grotto]

Very, very unlikely. Elsie does not have a particularly good relationship with her grandfather.

[cloud glacier]

who do you think she was talking to

or was she pretending to talk to someone

so that she could appear more mysterious in front of the Guardian

[trim grotto]

We very honestly have no clue. Theories on the subject are loose at best.

[cloud glacier]

Elsie only appears in D1 in its vanilla campaign

I don’t think she ever made a reappearance until Beyond Light

[trim grotto]

She was referenced in Warmind, but we didn't know she was the Exo Stranger then.

[cloud glacier]

she was referred to as Elsie?

[trim grotto]

Golden Age logs referencing Dr Elizabeth Bray

[cloud glacier]

also, what were common theories about the Exo Stranger before BL? did anyone ever make that connection between BrayTech & Clovis and her?

[frozen pawn]

Observe. Connect. Conceal.
Conform. Comply. Return.
Secure. Contain. Protect.

Anyone have the full version of this ?

I only remember Consume. Enhance. Replicate from Shiva or something

[trim grotto]

Nothing particularly concrete. After all, every single Exo is connected to BrayTech, due to BrayTech making them.

[cloud glacier]

and back then the Clovis Bray name was merely aesthetic I think

it was just a name that appeared on BrayTech facility walls in Mars

[trim grotto]

You'll have to excuse my slow replies, I'm also playing Elden Ring, haha

[cloud glacier]

that’s a fun game from what I’ve heard lol

and also yes don’t worry I don’t mind

thanks for even putting up with my lore questions

[hollow fern]

Do you guys think we'll see the new leader of the hidden in game

[sleek matrix]

Eventually

[hollow fern]

Also do we know anything about Chalco except for she a hunter

[jagged badge]

She’s been a character in lore for a while

[slim girder]

A fair bit. She's popped up in the lore many times as a hidden agent

[dim minnow]

She's Ikora's favorite

[next bobcat]

She has a shader named after her too

Pretty neat shader btw

[brittle dirge]

Why are some enemy models reused

Like the warden for the one deep boss or hangman for locus of communion

Is there a lore reason?

[ember storm]

No

[brittle dirge]

Why do these 2 mfs share a theme AND a model yet there’s no reason why

[ember storm]

Because they literally just reused assets

Bungie wanted a ravager boss so they used the only ravager boss model

[brittle dirge]

Okay? But there’s at least a reason normally they reuse characters

[ember storm]

There isn’t normally, no

[brittle dirge]

They gave the locus of communion different lore, a different name, etc.

[ember storm]

They have been reusing models since D1 released

[brittle dirge]

Why flesh out a story if it’s gonna be the same guy

[ember storm]

It doesn’t mean anything

[ember storm]

because the character of either doesn’t matter

they’re both nothing burgers

[brittle dirge]

They reuse warden by making a lore reason it can repair itself (which is bullshit btw)

[ember storm]

that’s literally the same character

that is different

[brittle dirge]

But it died

[ember storm]

it is an ai robot which can just be transferred to a new chassis

it’s a fuckin Servitor

They can’t die

They are literally machines with code

[brittle dirge]

https://www.destinypedia.com/J4W-S,_Wrath-Hunter_Servitor

like this mf is not the same as warden but uses the same model

[ember storm]

That is completely separate from the warden returning in revenant

[brittle dirge]

I know it was just an example

[ember storm]

And again it also doesn’t matter

Models have been reused since literally forever

Bungie had to invent an entirely new house that only existed in the past to make up a reason that they used the Dusk models in Dawn when you meet Saint in the past of Mercury

[brittle dirge]

my main point is they made bullshit reasons to reuse characters before

Why not models?

[ember storm]

what?

[brittle dirge]

Wdym what

[ember storm]

what do you mean

I literally do not get what your point is

explain

bungie reuses models and your conclusion is what

[brittle dirge]

They have retconned character’s deaths before via lore

Why not do the same for models?

[ember storm]

wdym retcon

what does that have to do with models

[brittle dirge]

Okay retcon wasn’t the right word

[ember storm]

they’re not going to say every iteration of one specific model is the same character

[brittle dirge]

I’m not asking for that

[ember storm]

That’s reserved for important characters with unique models that actually matter

[brittle dirge]

I’m asking for a lore reason WHY they look the same

[jagged badge]

Why?

[ember storm]

Hangman and locus looking the same does not matter

That is simply what it is

[jagged badge]

They’re both Scorn, that’s reason enough

It doesn’t matter at all

[ember storm]

Every dusk captain public event boss looks the same, does it matter

Scorn literally make armor out of garbage there is not room for creative freedom

[brittle dirge]

It simply frustrates me that they could write an entire story on locus and they didn’t think why not explain why this guy looks the same as reksis?

[ember storm]

You’re looking at it the wrong way

The locus is not a character

It does not have backstory

It does not have motivation

It is literally just a mindless thing that exists to get shot at

[jagged badge]

The Locus is a video game boss first and a plot device second and a character 100th

[ember storm]

All the “story” it has is the fact that it happened to be the random scorn Calus picked to use with the crown of sorrow

It is not important on its own whatsoever

The hangman also barely has a character

[brittle dirge]

That is story enough

[ember storm]

He’s just a sadistic killer who killed guys, who cares

Why make an entirely new model for it

Having the precedent of every named boss needing a unique model is way more trouble than it’s worth

[brittle dirge]

reksis was a pioneer, one of the first to fight against the machines they rely (every fallen) on rather than use them or become one with the machines (Devil splicers)

This is used later by many more fallen but he was one of the first

[ember storm]

Do you not remember the entirety of the devil splicers who integrated machinery in their own bodies in order to raise themselves beyond any other Eliksni

like, Aksis called himself the new great machine

[brittle dirge]

Also hangman is not scorn until revenant

All of the barons were fallen

[ember storm]

Except the machinist

and also again it doesn’t matter

the models were made first

backstory slapped together later

they were all most definitely designed as actual scorn

seeing as the trickster literally does the same dark ether trail as raiders

[brittle dirge]

I acknowledged Devil splicers in my paragraph you responded to

Sure, they cut off their ether (and effectively servitors) but it’s still going from one machine (servitors) to another (siva) it’s not much of a change

Reksis outright refuses anything close

[ember storm]

and they’re all visibly pale with dark ether cysts

the models were all designed first

it literally just doesn’t matter

you can headcanon that they look visibly different if you want

[jagged badge]

Yeah the Scorned Barons are absolutely Scorn models

Which is why people are so surprised to learn they weren’t Scorn

[brittle dirge]

But canonically they are not so they aren’t

Scorn models? Yes.

The rider is actually just a stalker

[jagged badge]

Dude

The models visually are Scorn. The lore doesn’t fucking matter to that point

“Canonically they are not so they aren’t” is irrelevant

Entirely irrelevant

[brittle dirge]

I just said that

“The rider is actually just a stalker”

[jagged badge]

Therefore, these Scorn models are reused on other Scorn bosses

That’s the only explanation needed

For a game full of model reuses like this, this is an extremely weird hill to die on

[brittle dirge]

I’m agreeing they look like scorn (which doesn’t make much sense judging by 1. Lore and 2. The fact they came from house of exile, so where is the green robes?)

It doesn’t make much sense

[jagged badge]

Xivu’s Leviathan Eater had its model reused this episode for a boss/bosses in Court of Blades

It just simply doesn’t matter

[brittle dirge]

Speaking of where the fuck is house of exile

Aren’t they still on the moon

Or did they all flee to dusk/salvation

[ember storm]

Every broodmother boss looks the same

Navota looks 1:1 with Omnigul

[ember storm]

fallen seen in EoF are green

Exile are green

speaking of which Omnigul still shouldn’t even be dead

[brittle dirge]

The irony of this saying one of the barons (mindbreaker) had a broodmother as a consort

[ember storm]

She would definitely have a throne world

she canonically came back during the year of RoI

we didn’t do anything different in the reprise but she’s still somehow considered dead

[brittle dirge]

EoF? What is that again

[ember storm]

Edge of fate

The new expansion

July

[brittle dirge]

oh right

well EXILE IS COMING BACK

[ember storm]

I love how the barons got exiled from exile

[brittle dirge]

even though there’s like 0 notable people there and anyone who was is dead/no longer with them

[ember storm]

They worked with Taniks

Taniks would technically be part of them, seeing as

well

[brittle dirge]

Most fallen houses have worked with Taniks

[ember storm]

he has no house, kneels before no banner, yada yada

The ketch on the moon was theirs

[brittle dirge]

true…

but also the Devil splicers revived him

And so did house salvation

so again, he has no house

He’s a mercenary at heart

What house did he belong to at one point though? Scar?

[ember storm]

He never got paid by any of the last two though

They just brought him back minutes before we kill him again

[brittle dirge]

he was a leader for the splicers (or at least close to one)

I’d say that goes beyond payment

[ember storm]

It is only mentioned once in passing by Variks one time

It has no backstory or known members

[brittle dirge]

Judging by the name though you can guess

Taniks, The Scarred

House of Scar

The house avarokk was also most likely a part of judging by the cape colors

[ember storm]

You mean symbol

The circles

[brittle dirge]

Yeah

[ember storm]

Avarokk is beige

[brittle dirge]

really?

I remember the cape being orange

Let me check

[ember storm]

Sucks at brand recognition

[brittle dirge]

I wouldn’t say that’s beige

that mark is most def orange

The capes are near identical though

Only difference being the circles are white for avarokk

However saying avarokk was a one off thing for a joke, fun expansion we will never know

[empty fern]

Pharzia was the ogre ikora beamed down in wq

[winged ocean]

Reminder oryx is trans

[trim grotto]

It's at the heart of all our lore

[thorny scarab]

Does the place Ravenswood have any significance?

[trim grotto]

I have no idea what that is, no.

[thorny scarab]

Dang so it’s probably just a random name

[trim grotto]

Probably. Where'd you pick it up from?

[thorny scarab]

It’s on the subway car

Thought it was weird

Sounds like some suburban neighborhood

[trim grotto]

Ah, that. I imagine we'll hear about it when the DLC launches. It's from somewhen else, probably Golden Age or maybe earlier, so it probably hasn't existed for centuries.

[thorny scarab]

Yeah probably

Well, hopefully

TIME TRAVEL

[frozen pawn]

(What if it's we who caused the traveller to act in the Collapse)

[frozen pawn]

it just me or... the Nine avatar seem to be Vex-like ?

[blazing wasp]

Given how D2 handles time travel, this would actually create a paradox

[thorny scarab]

Idk

I think just you

[frozen pawn]

[sick yew]

A perfect paradox you say?

[sick yew]

the Nine avatar?

You talking about my girl Orin?

Or who

[frozen pawn]

that's Orin? I though she already quit ?

[sick yew]

No

Thatll happen in Edge of Fate

But she is fighting it

[frozen pawn]

I mean the image above is in Edge of Fate

[sick yew]

Oh youre talking about that image specifically

[frozen pawn]

yeah

[sick yew]

Mb thought we were going about the story rn

[sick yew]

Youre probably feeling like that because of the tentacle type thingies resembling a Wyvern a bit

[frozen pawn]

that image remind me alot of the old dusty Vex we faced before

[sick yew]

Tbf tho that image seems to be from before Orin quit

Cause she dont got her dope Titan armor on

[slim girder]

Idk if this was said in the reveal but Lodi isn't a guardian right?

[frozen pawn]

I dont think he is but there's nothing reveal that yet

[frozen pawn]

yeah (or it could be another one)

[blazing wasp]

It's extremely unlikely that's not Orin shown

We'd hear about it if they had a second emissary

[sick yew]

I doubt the Emissary can exist without Orin

[frozen pawn]

she's like mutiple personality at that point

[slim girder]

Right so he's just destiny's version of gordan freeman. Though I wonder why a random human is just sitting on a planet that far out of Sol. He did say he wasn't human so I assume that other part might explain why he's lived so long

[sick yew]

maybe he got there via the train

G-Man send him to the wrong place on accident after the end of Half Life 1

[frozen pawn]

his voice transformed into machine-like in the end

[slim girder]

Speculation but I believe a member of the nine talks through Lodi. If you remember in the trailer there's some quotes from a person speaking in a much different manner. "Remove your scornful bindings" or the whole connect, conform speech.

[sick yew]

That MIGHT be Chappell Roan (the Giver)

[slim girder]

Maybe orin and Lodi are both emissaries

[slim girder]

Explain this lore to me. I've been hearing "The giver" a lot recently and also saw dova post what almost looked like something to do with stars.

[sick yew]

"The Giver" is the name of a Chappell Roan song

Thats the joke

[slim girder]

Ohhhhh it's a joke. Bruh I was thinking we'd somehow gotten the name of one of the nine

[sick yew]

Lmfao

Its probably called that cause it gave the Exile Eliksni uh something

And they suck at naming things

[slim girder]

Who sucks at naming things?
Who are they calling the giver?

[sick yew]

We dont know who exactly the Giver is

Leading theory atm is that its a Nine

[dim minnow]

I'm almost comepletely certain The Giver is actually one of the Nine

[slim girder]

Where did this start? Is there a lore tab somewhere or from the collectors edition?

[dim minnow]

hold on, lemme pull out the Enneagram

[sick yew]

It just seems likely due to the overall theme of the expansion

I dont think we have any actual evidence so far

[dim minnow]

there is actually

[sick yew]

Nvm

[dim minnow]

refer to the Division sidearm, a new weapon introduced in Heresy

it's lore tab is about the growing dissent among the Nine

[slim girder]

Yeah but where did "The giver" name even come from. Like I've heard no mention of it in the lore yet.

[dim minnow]

and it's flavor text specifically says:
"An enneagram tips, poised to shatter"

[slim girder]

I saw that sidearm the second it came out and got excited

[dim minnow]

meaning that Bungie themselves used the word

[dim minnow]

The Giver isn't mentioned until the reveal stream

[sick yew]

I hope I get mine soon so I can look for more shit regarding everything

[dim minnow]

but the fact that The Giver is on the enneagram and Bungie themselves used that term is interesting

[sick yew]

But considering im yk not US theres a good chance ill get it dead last

[slim girder]

Ohhh it's talked about in the reveal stream ok. I must've missed it then. I've been looking through lore entries looking for that name thinking we had another paracausal being in the background just like the lord of nothing from heresy

[dim minnow]

they say that the Giver is who the House of Exile are following

[sick yew]

Yeah they said thats who the Eliksni on there are worshipping

you ready for the Chappell Roan raidboss Dova

We gonna be raiding the pink pony club

[dim minnow]

I literally know nothing about her

[slim girder]

Ahhh ok then. Yeah I joined the stream late so I saw bits of edge of fate but then they moved to renegades

[dim minnow]

other than she is some singer or something

[slim girder]

A controversial singer

[sick yew]

Then start listening brother
Itll be vital for EoF trust

[sick yew]

I dont know shit about her besides one or two neat tracks
Not sure if shes controversial

[slim girder]

She had some weird thing going on that got her into a fair bit of trouble. Don't remember what exactly but it was big enough that people talked for a while

I don't know that much either but one of her songs is liked by my sister

[sick yew]

[slim girder]

Anyway thanks for the giver clarification. I was so confused by it all and spent ages looking for that name.
If I had to take a guess rn I'd say this could possibly be an eramis but with strand situation.

Eramis was communicating with darkness splinters for stasis so maybe this new I assume kell could be tapping into strand from somewhere connected to the nine. Maybe even from the nine directly

[dim minnow]

Kepler itself seems to be a place where reality was screwed with

[slim girder]

Weird theory but edge of fate definitely has strand themes. Could it be possible time travel is what strand is capable of when it's out of control or unstable?
It connects minds together but what if that also accounts for memories of say an old Chicago train..

[dim minnow]

memory is more on Deepsight territory

[fervent sandal]

Read this lore for the first time this is now my second favorite lore of any exotic

[sick yew]

Quite the implications aint it

[slim girder]

Headbutt

Also I find it funny they use Lysanders name

[fervent sandal]

Yeh

My favorite one is assassins cowl

[sick yew]

Best loretab is tricksleeves for the simple reason that it introduced us to Karl the Titan

[slim girder]

Claws of ahamkara mainly because of the 4th wall break

But also dragons.

Love dragons

[sick yew]

Ahamkara related stuff Tyranny of Heaven remains my favorite

Hard to argue theres anything more hunter than betting your own life in a poker game against a mf wish dragon

[dim minnow]

hard to beat Vex Mythoclast for me

that lore tab perfectly captures the spirit of the game

[blazing wasp]

I like graviton lance

A lot

[sick yew]

Also Salvagers Salvo for the simple reason that it made me canon

[slim girder]

Tarrabah made me canon as well being from Australia

Watch renegades be set in the Australian outback.

[sick yew]

Tatooine was always just Australia

Imagine

[slim girder]

As an Australian I've been to places that look like this. Sun setting in the background and nothing but rocks and dried up ground.

Took this from the renegades trailer.

[sick yew]

considering its the only location they showed besides generic spaceship interior
Ik

[slim girder]

As is the norm with DLCs we'll probs only get 1 location to fit the space western vibe. The whole evil empire thing makes me feel like we'll be running through massive ships just like back in lightfall with the typhon imperator. Think it's obvious that "empire" will be cabal and this new dredgen being in that small town in the trailer

Almost every star wars movie had the main cast inside some giant ship.

[thorny scarab]

I know it’s a bit late and someone else probably said something along these lines but the pre existing infrastructure as well as human artifacts that we’ve seen on Kepler so far indicates to me that either the Nine are manipulating time and space to find another emissary or that there was humans (or some remnant of humanity) already waiting on Kepler that someone is reactivating. For me I’d rather believe the former due to how we see a subway train seemingly being brought from somewhere, as well as a giant aircraft carrier just sitting in the sands.

On top of that, I feel like Kepler is already forming it’s own Nine-like entity. It’s been mentioned that there is already a ton of dark matter on the planet, so it’s plausible that a new entity is being created due to the extreme amounts of it

[slim girder]

I don't think it's an entity more a ritual. If there's a lot of dark matter on Kepler then that could explain the time distortion since even IRL dark matter has been speculated to manipulate time in some studies.
Obviously this is destiny though but what if that theory is taken and now we have dark matter going haywire because of the nine which is the cause of the train popping out of seemingly nowhere and also us seemingly jumping between timelines.

Maybe the nine or a member of the nine is desperate and in that pursuit is causing this time rippling anomaly on Kepler.

[thorny scarab]

I don’t know why exactly a member of the nine would be desperate for even more dark matter, nor would they be willing to stray so far from their original home to get more

I can understand how the dark matter would affect time though

[slim girder]

Well it is the nines goal to become independent and not rely on existence of others. The nine are already at each other's necks it seems so I think it's possible one of them might try to possibly make a gamble and get ahead of the others to maybe prove their point.

Dark matter is what they need so a large quantity of it would definitely be of interest even if it was far away

[next bobcat]

What??

Huh?

[thorny scarab]

Do the nine really rely on the existence of others? Aren’t they basically entities formed out of the dark matter orbits around the major celestial bodies in the solar system?

[sick yew]

Theyre space dust

And theyre pretty fed up with not having actual bodies

[thorny scarab]

Orin turning in her two weeks notice probably doesn’t put them in better spirits

[slim girder]

Yes. Gathering enough dark matter is the key to them breaking free from that reliance.

[thorny scarab]

So they rely on their emissaries?
Without bodies they can’t really speak or act too much on anything, so they rely on their agents and emissaries to get their work done?

[sick yew]

They gonna break Xurs back again just because

[thorny scarab]

Maaaaan why they gotta do my man Xur like that

[sick yew]

That and well they kinda been experimenting with a lot of different ways to get bodies so I dont doubt Emissaries are just one of those experiments

[slim girder]

"Yes we are here, we are not the photons on your screen, the voice in your head or the words you read"

[thorny scarab]

Maybe Lodi is their next experiment?

[slim girder]

That's the theory. Driven insane by visions

[thorny scarab]

Man is clearly not having a good time, and if that one brief glimpse in the trailer is to be interpreted, being torn in multiple different directions

[next bobcat]

Again?

[thorny scarab]

I think another important thing to consider is the Vesper’s Host portal
Last I checked, Lodi was the one transmitting through it, which also means that he reprogrammed Atraks to build it in the first place

[slim girder]

I'm just curious as to how he got there. And how long he's been there. We got his message in vespers host but there's no timeline as to when it was received.
With all due respect what is a random human doing outside of sol?

[thorny scarab]

Then in the new expansion there are fallen structures and fallen with new technology and abilities

[next bobcat]

Gordon freeman?

Idk how he got there

[thorny scarab]

There isn’t a timeline to when it was received but I think it’s fair to assume he wouldn’t have sent it if there was no clear exit point. I think he is the one behind the fallen portal in vespers as well

[thorny scarab]

Imagine a ghost just got wildly off track and went super duper far away for no reason and found a guy

Aside from that, I can’t see Lodi being a guardian

[next bobcat]

How did the get there in the first place

Is he a lightbearer?

[thorny scarab]

I mean there clearly is human structures on Kepler

[slim girder]

Again he's just human. Not a guardian so the fact he's been there alive this whole time raises questions. Universe is a very dangerous place in Destiny and we only find him due to a distress signal.

[next bobcat]

There’s a difference between a guardian and a lightbearer

[thorny scarab]

And other human things like subways and ships are already there

[next bobcat]

It looks pre/early golden age

[thorny scarab]

It’s also possible he’s been pulled from a time in humanity‘s history like the golden age technology and stuff like that have

Right?

Going back to the trailer, I think that’s what this still is meant to indicate

[slim girder]

Well in the trailer he calls us guardian. That implys he knows about the existence of guardians as a whole. Again I'm just curious as to how a regular human with seemingly no protection got out of Sol and if he's been driven insane how he's survived on his own.
Unless his "non human" parts allow him to live longer

[thorny scarab]

He could be talking to us after we have made contact with him. Others like that (like the cloud striders) took to calling us guardian pretty quickly

[trim grotto]

I think you're in the wrong channel.

Try #✨destiny-discussion

[unreal trench]

Why

I hate

[trim grotto]

This channel is for lore.

Hence the name.

[unreal trench]

Hate using PC:(

[clear knot]

Why is it that we don't hear stories of Eliksni lightbearers? They had the Traveler's Blessing, so couldn't they have had lightbearers to deal with the Whirlwind?

[blazing wasp]

We are the only ones with light bearers

Why would the fallen need them

It's incredibly taxing and why need soldiers for a war not here

[clear knot]

Savathun has them???

[blazing wasp]

Oh right yeah

Well that was like

After ghosts existed

Eliksni had no ghosts

[clear knot]

I'm asking why didn't the traveller make ghosts for the eliksni?

[blazing wasp]

Why would she

The traveler never intended to fight the black fleet

[clear knot]

Well didn't she choose the eliksni eons before us?

oh

ok

[blazing wasp]

She did

[sleek matrix]

Traveler made its stand for us

And released ghosts

[blazing wasp]

The traveler has chosen a LOT of species

[sleek matrix]

Eliksni were blessed by the traveler power

But then the fleet came

[blazing wasp]

She likely predates Earth

Like, the rock

[ember storm]

not likely, confirmed

statues on the dreadnaught are older than earth

[sleek matrix]

Dreadnought is also old asf

[ember storm]

and the witness is far older than that

and the precursors lasted a long time too

[sleek matrix]

And the traveler was just there

Buired in sand

[blazing wasp]

Ahh

[ember storm]

she old asf

[slim girder]

Wonder if we'll ever discover where the precursors came from. Obviously we'd probably never go there but getting the name of their planet or position in or out of our galaxy would be cool

This universe threatening forces home. Where the whole pursuit began

[ember storm]

tbh i'm more than happy to never get an answer

i'm mroe concerned over an inkling of explanation into the winnower

precursors had their time in the spotlight

[slim girder]

True. Idk I just like to tie a loose end if that makes sense. Like if we got a tiny lore talking about a probe or something that returned from the precursor planet I think that'd be cool.
As for now though I'm also interested in the winnower, the lord of nothing and now what on earth the nine are doing.

[inner mauve]

Is the red body that nezarec and rhulk and the tormentors have standard issue black fleet commander uniform or do they all just happen to have red skin

[ember storm]

Bit of both but tormentors are black iirc

[slim girder]

It's just their skin most likely.
Nezarec is a weird case though because he was "accidentally" revived by the traveler beam so the way we see him is probably not what he's supposed to look like.

[ember storm]

like a baby mouse

[void depot]

Hopefully he was originally taller

He looks like he got squished down

[ember storm]

No he just has a horrible posture

[void depot]

omg that's so embarrassing

It's not enough that he's stupid easy to kill, but he ALSO just can't stand up straight

for someone with such cool lore that's pretty cringe

[blazing wasp]

He was literally just born when we fought him

Just realized how long ago you wrote that

[void depot]

no he was just reborn

[void depot]

He's an ancient eldritch god of pain, I feel like it should've been harder regardless

[blazing wasp]

Yeah

His physical body was made just as we fought him

A bad posture is a little fair

He's probably not dead dead as it seems he cannot die

[void depot]

Yeah I forget the specifics on why he can't die, but his body was chopped up and spread across the galaxy in an attempt to keep him from coming back. The Witness had been gathering his pieces to put him back together, but he had not gathered all of Nezarec at the time of his resurrection, so that's probably why he was super weak

Even then though, especially compared to how much of a pain Rhulk can be, Nezarec feels a little silly

[blazing wasp]

Nezarec was pummeled with whats effectively a wizard orbital laser before damage phase

Rhulk isn't particularly weakened that much he just underestimates us

[void depot]

I actually totally forgot about that, that's definitely fair

[blazing wasp]

We do always beat our most powerful enemies using tools and strength not our own

[ember storm]

If we can help it we never fight them at their full strength

Crota and Oryx had their tribute lines dismantled, Savathun was stunned by a mental breakdown, the witness was wounded

Vex we kinda just shoot a whole lot though

[void depot]

We go onto their turf and fight them there, and still destroy them

[slow berry]

The Vex we are paracausal so they get really annoyed when we stop their theoretically foolproof defenses

[ember storm]

You mean causal

[slim girder]

Wouldn't work because the vex can replace lost units the second others are destroyed. If we really wanted to hurt the vex I feel destroying vex converted planets would be the only option but that's just impractical.

[void depot]

"wouldn't work" we went into the black garden AND we regularly go into Vex simulations

[ember storm]

The point is that it never truly puts a dent in them

We’re only successful because vex generally never try new ideas twice if they fail the first time

[void depot]

Ohhh yes I get what you’re trying to say now. Yeah part of what I love about them is that they’re essentially unbeatable

[slow berry]

I meant *for the vex we

[glad crater]

U must wonder what the inside of this would look like? A bit like the witnesses pyramid ship?? ||daddy|| rhulk ship??? Europa ship? Lunar ship????

[slim girder]

Did some digging on this.
Ravenswood is a place in Chicago. Maybe that place holds significance to Lodi but we'll have to wait and see

[trim grotto]

Ignore the format

[sick yew]

What's that format

[thorny scarab]

Chicago has been brought up a lot recently