📚lore-discussion

[stark fjord]

Does anime still a thing in destiny?

Do u think manga is considered sacred golden age text

😭

[sick yew]

Well the loretab of Twin-Tailed Fox is an anime intro

[low gyro]

Daito foundry guys must be hella weebs

[tropic swift]

Is Tex Mecha an armory maker or does it also make exos and such too?

[sick yew]

Exos as in the robot people?

No that was Clovis Bray

Tex only made guns and ig armor

Notable weapons of them include Last Word, Dead Mans Tale, all of the guns from the spire dungeon (excluding the bow and seraph reprisals) and many others

[tropic swift]

Dang
my exo hunter uses their stuff so I'm trying to figure out how to make that work

[sick yew]

Tex is generally considered a rather pristine foundry so many guardians like their stuff

Whether theyre Human, Exo or Awoken dont really matter

[tropic swift]

Is there any solar tex mechanica weapons?

[sick yew]

Solar tex huh

Well theres Tarrabah

Wasnt aware Tex made that one but the more you know ig

Otherwise you got Wildstyle which is a nightfall gun

But thats it I believe

[hollow hinge]

they're not fans of solar, huh? lol

[sick yew]

Checks out that they mostly made kinetic weapons tbf

[tropic swift]

They made long arm

[sick yew]

Indeed

[tropic swift]

what about the prophet?

[sick yew]

Of doom?

The gos weapon?

[tropic swift]

it's stasis
nvm

[sick yew]

Oh wait you mean "the prophet"

Scout rifle

Yeah thats stasis

But also made by tex

[tropic swift]

is there a solar lever action?

[sick yew]

Nop

There are only 4 leaver actions I think

Dead Mans Tale the og obviously

nvm theres more than 4

Long Arm from Spire, The Prophet which is Stasis

[tropic swift]

There was
echos weapon

[sick yew]

Last Rite the ritual weapon

And Timeworm Wayfarer which is solar but is more of a vex weapon

[tropic swift]

timeworn

[sick yew]

Its technically a leaver action yes, the only on Tex one tho you could make the theory that it once was a tex leaver action that fell into Radiolaria or some shit

[tropic swift]

My exo hunter is a solar desperado

[sick yew]

Nice nice

[tropic swift]

so I'm trying to get all cowboy weapons that could work with solar

[dim minnow]

honestly, I would still count Timeworn as a cowboy weapon

[sick yew]

Oh for sure

Imo basically every handcannon in the game is at least in some way a cowboy gun aswell

[dim minnow]

Timeworn does go hard

I love using it

[hazy veldt]

what exactly killed sjur eido

or whatever her name is

[dim minnow]

it seems like the Nine killed her unintentionally

[hazy veldt]

tf

how

when the nine kill someone i doubt its ever unintentional

[hollow hinge]

wasn't it Skolas that killed her?

[dim minnow]

the Nine themselves took responsibility

[hazy veldt]

skolas is fraud of sentury i doubt he himself would square up to her

[hollow hinge]

It was some Fallen captain that the Nine released or helped but they didn't anticipate them going on such a rampage

[dim minnow]

besides, since she died during the Reef Wars, this was before the Nine had anything to do with Skolas

[dim minnow]

Skolas is not some fallen captain

he is the Kell of House Wolves

[hazy veldt]

he got his ass whooped by guarding 3 times

if not 4

[dim minnow]

so did Kelgorath and Taniks, he ain't special

[hazy veldt]

im not saying he special he just a fraud

didnt he like drive his own house to extinction almost?

[dim minnow]

that was more Mara's doing (since she 100% started the Reef Wars)

[hazy veldt]

still

so skolas got 1 semi-major feat

in his whole existence

crazy work i must say

[hollow hinge]

I didn't mean literally captain, relax

[tawdry wigeon]

Hey i need some help, i can't understand what the taken are. They seem to be pretty much everywhere especially when the light and darkness is involved

[sick yew]

Okay so there was this guy

Lets call him, Oryx

Hes pretty cool, one of the three hive gods

And he was like, "hm wouldnt it be pretty cool to make an army out of my enemies?"

Yk "cant be low on soldiers if you just take your enemies as your soldiers"

So he started taking

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhhhhh

Where does the black and white come from tho? His power?

[sick yew]

Thats why they call him Oryx, the taken king

Essentially

[versed orbit]

darkness altered beings via ascendant realm fuckery

[versed orbit]

cause it looks cool

[sick yew]

(Imo he should be called the taking king instead cause thats what he does but thats besides the point)

[versed orbit]

taken king = king of the taken

[sick yew]

Hes not married

So he aint taken

[tawdry wigeon]

Okokok another question

How are the nine connected to the taken?

[sick yew]

They aint

[versed orbit]

they aren't really

[sick yew]

The Nine are sentient space dust

They just like using the taken in their realm

[versed orbit]

the nine have "faken" made from dark matter

[sick yew]

Cause yk, mindless soldiers that bend to whoever is the strongest

[tawdry wigeon]

Soooo right right okay so. Ik they tried taking forms but they failed miserably, is that cuz they are weak or cuz they are just bad at it?

[sick yew]

Its pretty hard making a physical form yk

Cells are complicated

We know from their wonky portal shit that theyre slowly trying to get a better understanding of it

But yeah creating an organic body aint that simple

Theres a reason evolution takes billions of years

[tawdry wigeon]

I mean sure i get that but what kind of power do they have? Like how do you see it as? Arent they like very strong?

[versed orbit]

ehhh

[tawdry wigeon]

I didn't expect destiny to follow that rule

[versed orbit]

not really strong

[sick yew]

And they, unlike the Witness dont have paracusal forces to help them just imagine shit

[sick yew]

Well they can literally blow up your brain

They are strong

[versed orbit]

anyone can do that

with prep time

[sick yew]

[tawdry wigeon]

Thats cope for saying batman can kill spiderman.

[sick yew]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/cocytus

[tawdry wigeon]

Anyhow, is xur one of the failed forms?

[sick yew]

Give that entry a read

It shows their attempts at creating biological bodies

[tawdry wigeon]

Okay will do

[sick yew]

Its honestly quite astonishing they got as far as they did with those portals

Not sure if they just grabbed xur and turned him into what he is to act as a sorta translator

Similar to what they did with Orin

[versed orbit]

Xur is pretty much their mouthpiece

[sick yew]

His will is not his own

[versed orbit]

and what they use to better understand guardians and the light

[versed orbit]

real

[tawdry wigeon]

What do the portals do? Like how did that help with the creation of the forms?

[tawdry wigeon]

Ahhhhh gotcha gotcha

Hermes to the twelve gods

[sick yew]

We dont know exactly where those portals lead but the implication is that theyre manipulating whatever it is on the other side on an atomic level to create biological bodies

[tawdry wigeon]

Im going to miss the two expansions and man the lore will get goooooooddddd

[tawdry wigeon]

They do sound broken

[sick yew]

Well the portals were tampered with by Crotas Hive

And Savathun

God knows whats up with them really

[versed orbit]

crota always fucking with portals man

[tawdry wigeon]

The nine have to be the least understood lore piece

Okay okay

[sick yew]

Most of their stuff tends to be rather cryptic but we do know what they are

[tawdry wigeon]

Changing subject. Vex. Since the nine are coming we wont see any vex at all. Am i wrong for feeling like the vex lore i still missing a ton of pieces?

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea but other than that the knowledge on them is very limited

We know about the two groups and their opinion but not much after that

[sick yew]

The Vex are also very complicated but they really arent like that deep tbh

They got their core directive aka turn everything into Vex

[versed orbit]

we know their origin and their goals

[sick yew]

And that do be about it simply speaking

[sick yew]

If you mean the whole "surviving pattern of the garden game" stuff that is technically unconfirmed

[dim minnow]

though it lines up with other lore really well

[sick yew]

For sure

[tawdry wigeon]

How are they complicated but not deep?

[versed orbit]

eh it's highly likely imo

[sick yew]

Their goal is simple, as I said

Make everything Vex

But looking at them as a species and how the various collectives sometimes operate is....weird

Which makes sense cause their logic is just different from our understanding

I note that Vex milk, while computationally powerful, seems to avoid semiosis. That is, it prefers to mimic the actual dynamics of phenomena rather than assigning a symbol. This is a fundamental difference between Vex cognition and our own. We encode inputs as symbols, manipulate the symbols according to some set of logical rules, and produce output. The Vex are more direct. Burn them, and they will extinguish the fire—not because they possess a symbolic knowledge of fire and its properties, but because their internal structure is so suited to adaptation and survival that the heat of the fire directly becomes the response required to snuff it out. Rather than encoding symbols, they generate self-sustaining and self-correcting patterns, which like the suspension bridge flexing under strain, can accept destructive input and produce reparatory output.

Nop that didnt work

There we go

To quote from Clovis Brays journal on the initial study of Radiolaria

[tawdry wigeon]

Okay so basically there's not an environment they cant adapt at

[sick yew]

Seemingly yeah

It probably has limitations but ones far beyond those of any other organism out there

[tawdry wigeon]

Hmm okay okay. I wish there was a way or something to understand the way they think and stuff

Also are they like a hive mind?

[sick yew]

Unfortunately that would take away from making them as scary as they are which is why Vex tend to have rather meh storylines

[sick yew]

No but kinda yes?
They all follow the same directive deep down, each cell of radiolaria and they work together to achieve that goal

Some radiolaria makes up a normal ass Vex Goblin, others a big mind but the overwhelming majority just flows on various vex planets "thinking"

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea i get that idk im just curious

[sick yew]

A single cell of radiolaria cant really think but all of them working together thats how they get calculating

And my god are they good at maths

[tawdry wigeon]

Vex planets? Like nessus but full metal thingy?

[sick yew]

Nessus and Mercury are the best examples ingame yeah

[tawdry wigeon]

Ive seen that ..

[tawdry wigeon]

Got it got it

[sick yew]

There are countless worlds that have been entirely converted into Vex structures

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh im so interesting to see then omggggg

But ig we wont see them unfortunately

Ig we are stuck on the same solar system

[sick yew]

Who knows whats coming in Frontiers and beyond

[sick yew]

lets see for how long ey?

[tawdry wigeon]

Hell yea! We've been here since d1 but cant wait for the future

I would be so fun to explore new planets with different species we havent seen yet

[sick yew]

The (imo) cool part about the Vex is just how scary they are when you take a step back
They have until the heatdeath of the universe to complete their goal and they work on a scale unimaginably big
Sol and literally everything we've ever done to them probably evaluates to a small calculation error in the scope theyre working with

They dont really have emotions or anything they just work to achieve their goal

And even with that they are still incredibly skilled

They can refuel suns to keep them on the edge of going supernova to turn them into a god damn matter-printer

[tawdry wigeon]

Bro damn

They are terrifying

[sick yew]

Yep
And thats their biggest flaw from a storytelling perspective

Cause how could you create a compelling villain out of a faction of cold logic non-verbal white fluid that pilots robot frames

And if they decided to "humanize" the Vex more that would make them much less scary in concept

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea that true actually..

Oh man ig we wont see much of the vex in the future

[sick yew]

Who knows what Bungie is gonna pull next

[tawdry wigeon]

Even if we do something to them they still expand at crazy speeds

[sick yew]

We'll see

[little gorge]

well we kinda do

the conductor

[ember storm]

Her name is Maya and she is toxic divorced old woman yuri

[little gorge]

[empty fern]

Toxic lesbian couple and the good horse (saint)

(Reversed)

[ember storm]

Did you see the lore meme I made a couple months ago

[empty fern]

No

Repost it

[ember storm]

This is how plunder ended

[empty fern]

Real

[sick yew]

Did they really tease Mithrax' uh "infection" that far backß

[empty fern]

It’s most likely where it started atleast

[sick yew]

Ofc

[ember storm]

During the saint narration you see the dark cloud enter Mithrax and he does the pose shown above

So

[sick yew]

Ah

Yeah checks out then

[next bobcat]

are we aware of were vex come from?

[neat adder]

Are the Grimoire books worth picking up?

[jagged badge]

They’re nice but not necessary to have

[zenith bison]

I feel like Cayde-6 would listen to classic rock or folk music

[dim minnow]

Unveiling is the best we got for it

[next bobcat]

really?

[dim minnow]

yeah

[next bobcat]

i read it, didn”t seem to explain

[dim minnow]

the patterns that won the Flower game are what would become the Vex

[next bobcat]

And in time the gardener became vexed.

?

from flower game lore

[dim minnow]

synonym for frustrated

[zenith bison]

Wait did they actually think the Vex got a verb named after them

[next bobcat]

i knew that lol i was just wondering if it maybe had a double meaning?

(my phone keyboard is sorta broken so typing is a lot slower for the most part)

[dim minnow]

probably was a direct reference

[trim grotto]

Apart from Unveiling, which of course has its issues... I'd simply refer to Clovis Bray's Logbook. Within it, Clovis describes that they evolved, like any other living creature.

I'll see if I can wrangle my mobile enough to grab the source for you

[next bobcat]

dw mael

[trim grotto]

Luckily it was within the first paragraphs of the second half of the Logbook, hosted on Ishtar. https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/clovis-brays-logbook-missing-pages
(Part 1 isn't hosted there)

Anyway TL;DR is that they simply evolved as into what we know them as

[ember storm]

Unveiling

more like

[next bobcat]

i just read the entirety of that tab

i have so many questions

[trim grotto]

Ah well
This is part 2

Part 1 would probably provide context haha

Would you like part 1 or would you like answers first

[next bobcat]

i'd prefer part 1 honestly

then any loose ends i can figure out

[trim grotto]

Uno momento

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tmu9sjYV7c6X1NhRQmOxkj_o7IJ4ZRcifbm49MNr12s/edit?usp=drivesdk

As the Beyond Light CE it had to be transcribed

Ishtar doesn't host physical editions

[next bobcat]

i see

sucks having one half digital and one half physical but oh well

1: hannu. what or who is hannu

[trim grotto]

AI assistant to Dr Clovis Bray
Part 2 features it firing the Maser of the Morningstar

I think
Been a minute since I paid attention to Hannu

My lunch break ends in 4 minutes so I don't have time to properly fact check haha

[next bobcat]

oh all good haha

i'll read up and write a list of queries for later

(i didn't expect it to be a 43 page novel lmaooo)

[ember storm]

[patent swallow]

anyone seen Milo's Schizo Destiny ARG video?

[slim girder]

So apollo is called edge of fate.
Very happy that it looks like we'll be focusing back on the nine after so long. That lore tab on the new sidearm is also very interesting for context.

The nine are arguing amongst themselves

[trim grotto]

Not by that name, but I may know the context. If it involves !lettinggo, I can already advise you to ignore it, though.

What's it about?

[patent swallow]

No I'm talking abt MrRoflWaffles

He was one of the main streamers that worked on the marathon ARG

He uploaded a video about some of the small symbols on the teaser image for Edge of Fate

He thinks there might be a code or something

[trim grotto]

Okay well I haven't seen that yet since I've been at work all day

[patent swallow]

You can see some small symbols on the bottom left and along the right side

He pointed out that they're a higher resolution than the rest of the image. I agree that it seems intentional

Although this is a cropped screenshot I took and uploaded to discord on my phone so the resolution is terrible

[slim girder]

Yeah i see them. Reminds me of the imagery from witch queen.

Half circles

Quarters

Full circles

etc

Who knows what it'll actually be though

[patent swallow]

are you referring to the hive symbols?

[slim girder]

No the Chemistry symbology. Like on the armour and weapons

[trim grotto]

how'd it go haha

[next bobcat]

i read a few pages and then took a break

i'll get through it eventually

also about the new expansion logo, that's 100% strand, the nine, and the anomaly

at least strand and the nine

what do you think?

i guess rite of the nine will lead us into whatever it is

[little gorge]

honestly they use this arrangement of 3 nine symbols pretty often so it might just be nothing

but either way the fact we have roflwaffles speculating on everything is kind of a godsend for the community

[little gorge]

i don't see strand tbh that's just green

also black holes generally just have that orange color

[dim minnow]

I kinda see it

[little gorge]

the anomaly was arc energy

[dim minnow]

not exactly Arc

it's some messed up Arc energy or something

[trim grotto]

Overcharged, yeah.

Still Arc, though.

[slim girder]

Fanta flavoured arc energy

[dim minnow]

it had some qualities of Solar though

like the color and flaming wells

[slim girder]

FR though I think we're just going to have to wait and see if any of that stuff in the reveal event thumbnail translates to what's actually shown.
I'm sure it will don't get me wrong but not the first time certain visuals have been used purely for advertising purposes.

[trim grotto]

I think that's just interpreting the colour. I wouldn't attribute any Solar to it myself.

[little gorge]

ok im watching the video and there are apparently other tiny symbols in the corner

[dim minnow]

what about the flaming wells

Arc doesn't do flames

and Void only did flames because Hunters were bored

[trim grotto]

Vesper of Radius

I wouldn't say it's flame either

[dim minnow]

that's a shockwave

[trim grotto]

I know, but it is a circle, or well. And frankly, I don't see flames.

[ember storm]

VESPER MENTION

[sick yew]

[little gorge]

like host?

[ember storm]

Lore chat why is there a random loyalist psion and red legion colossus in LoS

[sick yew]

I mean they follow(ed) the same guy

iirc most Cabal onboard the Leviathan were also clones so ye

[ember storm]

They would have all been absorbed into the shadow legion

It was LITERALLY just one psion

I genuinely think bungie placed the wrong entity in there

[dim minnow]

sometimes weird stuff happens with enemy spawns

when Shadowkeep launched, there was a Kell's Scourge servitor in one of the Moon Lost Sectors

[next bobcat]

chroma rush based

[ember storm]

I found a red legion colossus in onslaught salvation

like he was just there

[dim minnow]

probably a dev oversight

[thorny scarab]

O

HEAR ME OH GREAT SCHOLARS OF LORE

Ok so like
How do the hive reproduce in number

Like all they do is kill each other or other people

And yet there seems to be like ginormous armies of them

And yknow all of the Hive Gods have like daughters and sons and all that crap

[slim girder]

Progeny of hive gods are made through specific means like crota was made to be crota if that makes sense.
The rest of the hive though start life in those orange pods you might see in some places.

[thorny scarab]

Oh so when I do that thing in the nether im just slaughtering hive children

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/egg-iasip-always-sunny-philadelphia-gif-11094806

[slim girder]

Mhm

But

Hear me out

[trim grotto]

That's basically what Thrall are anyway

[slim girder]

It's satisfying to pop the eggs

[thorny scarab]

Also Crota being made to be Crota doesn’t entirely make sense
Why would anyone make Crota. Crota’s and asshole

[thorny scarab]

Ok so like

Who makes the orange eggs

Where do they come from

[trim grotto]

Brood Mothers
Were you around for the Tangled Shore?

[slim girder]

^^^

[thorny scarab]

I wish

No I came in at the best point in the games history.
Start of light fall.

||☹️||

[slim girder]

Back then we had a strike taking place inside a hive nest. The brood mother was the boss

[thorny scarab]

Ayo what
That’s cool
Why don’t they bring that back

[trim grotto]

Short version is a Hive Brood Mother leads and lays the brood

[slim girder]

Think people just didn't like broodhold

[trim grotto]

Well for the mechanical and technical issues that they removed it and the other locations for in the first place, for one

Destiny went through a massive engine overhaul in BL

[thorny scarab]

Ah…

[trim grotto]

Also we're narratively done on the Shore
It's back under Awoken control

[thorny scarab]

Dang it

I mean well, good

But like Aw maaan

Born too late to love forsaken
Born too early for GTA 6

Born just in time for Final Shap

[slim girder]

It's really got nothing of value any more. As mael said it's back under awoken control but also we've dealt with cryptoliths and now that fikrul is dead the scorns lifeline has been cut permanently

The shore can go back to just being a bunch of floating rocks in awoken territory

[trim grotto]

The wild west of the Reef

[thorny scarab]

Wait so I didn’t finish the Revenant story yet

Because I’m simply that lazy enough to not want to do Kells Fall

I thought Fikrul was immortal

And also all the scorn are basically toast?

[slim girder]

No we found away to put him down permanently

[thorny scarab]

The feels like
Like a super big deal

[trim grotto]

Insomuch as we are. He kept coming back to life.

[thorny scarab]

How so?

[thorny scarab]

Bro just destroy his bed and junk

Crush his ghost

[slim girder]

Eido made a special tonic that "reversed" his ether turning him mortal.

[trim grotto]

No. But they've been massively hamstrung, now. Their primary source of resurrection is now dead.

So has their secondary, actually.

[thorny scarab]

…
That’s a little overpowered but good on Eido!

And then we gave the echo to Eramis right?

[trim grotto]

Not really.

[thorny scarab]

Oh thank god

[trim grotto]

It chose her.

[thorny scarab]

I heard that originally and had a bypass

[thorny scarab]

What a dumb fucking echo

Might as well throw it in the garbage

[trim grotto]

It makes perfect sense. Mithrax did not want Riis to be reborn, he was building a new life under the Traveler.
The Echo of Riis, naturally, chose the Riis-born Eliksni who wanted it... Reborn.

Mithrax isn't so old. He never saw it.

Few yet live who did. The Apothecary, Variks, and Eramis, are some of those few.

[slim girder]

@thorny scarab here's the moment if you're interested.

[trim grotto]

I heartily recommend finishing the Episode

[slim girder]

Revenant was good imo.

Def recommend it

Going through it all

[thorny scarab]

Okay but like what about Variks

He’s cool

And decent

Man i would’ve given it to literally anyone else
Why did it have to choose the most annoying one

[slim girder]

On the plus side she's left Sol now and in fact she's pleased she has the means to finally get away from the traveler and humanity.

So no more Eramis for probably quite a long time. The eliksni story has been tied up nicely

[thorny scarab]

So…
WE’RE NEVER SEEING ERAMIS AGAIN

PEAK

So with the echoes…
One we let an enemy get away with
One we let an ally (kinda sorta, she’s an asshole) get away with
And one we complete destroyed

[trim grotto]

He, like Mithrax, is dedicated to House Light under the Traveler.

[thorny scarab]

Ugh…

Fine
If it HAD to be Eramis

[trim grotto]

Also he wasn't there

[thorny scarab]

At least she’s gone

[thorny scarab]

Well he should’ve been

But again
Eramis is gone

Off to a planet that is probably totally destroyed

How many of those dumb echo things are there anyway?

We’ve gotten 3 down (or, at least who has them and where they probably are)

[trim grotto]

Last I checked, we only know of 3. There might be more.

[thorny scarab]

Ok how many things shot out of the traveler while our guardian just sat and watched

[trim grotto]

You'll have to check that yourself
I'm on my lunch break

[frigid sparrow]

Take it with a grain of salt- in the episode echoes cutscene where Ikora explains what they are, 13 shoot out from the traveler

[little gorge]

unless the next saga is just "the echoes saga" it was probably just for dramatic effect

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect every dlc from here on to be "haha. Look at this echo!" Because it'd get old quick

That's not to say there aren't more or that they won't come back

I wouldn't be surprised if the psions got their hands on one, or if any raid/dungeon bosses in the future have them

And hell, maybe even the nine got their hands on one

[vital lodge]

what am I looking at

[dim minnow]

one of the Queen's Techeuns.
Tech Witches you Guardians call them.

[vital lodge]

ah

like the one who in my head, keeps getting taken over and over every time I do the strike

[dim minnow]

Her name is Sedia

She was Taken, but she can be saved

Her will is not her own.
Grant her the mercy that she cannot grant you.

[vital lodge]

the idea that mara just has to keep explaining it to us

also one of the most annoying strikes imo

well, with randoms

[dim minnow]

not Mara, Petra

[vital lodge]

ah yes

eyepatch

[little gorge]

in this case that is canonically what happens

[vital lodge]

does frenzy affect glaive melee

[dim minnow]

[vital lodge]

frig

[slim girder]

While we have dealt with 3 echoes I think if more slipped by it would be cool. Though I wouldn't make them the plot point of an episode instead something like say a psion splinter jury rigging a fragment of one to power some weapon or something I think would be cool.

Or seeing broken echoes still holding some sliver of power and acting more like artefacts than memories of past beings

[hazy veldt]

witness defo had something on earth animals

[frigid sparrow]

It's difficult to determine how echoes will go in the future, Bungie kinda wrote themselves into a corner by having a super convenient power booster fuck-you magic item that has lots of opportunities to be used in various ways

[ember storm]

I mean that has basically already been happening

WQ completely opened the floodgates of other races getting ghosts, and darkness has been handed out for years

[frigid sparrow]

I think the existence of echoes is a bit different from those, the ghosts and darkness have been established concepts and the whole mystery of WQ was how/why ghosts were on savvy's side, the echoes are a new thing that were immediately used to justify the villains we faced being as strong as they are in the power vacuum after the witness's death

It's not like the eliksni getting stasis (despite how Bungie also fumbled that idea)

[slim elk]

Just feels like Bungie missed easy opportunities with the Echoes

Instead of having Maya be instantly hostile to humanity.. imagine the twist being we helped her get established in an effort to remove the Vex as a threat before she turns on us in a power grab.

[ember storm]

Except that wasn’t done in revenant

And Fikrul essentially never used the quality of turning live Eliksni into scorn aside from one cutscene

[slim girder]

It was more the totems and the power of being able resurrect themselves that was the threat.

Truly immortal with the power of the echo.

[ember storm]

The totems are never referenced in the actual story are they

Fikrul was the one showing up to manually rez the barons each time they died in the mission

The lamps are just gameplay for the no name yellow bars

[slim girder]

I think they are but don't quote me. I haven't read that lore since revenant

Even if the totems were for gameplay the power they gave was still the goal of fikrul. Like he wouldn't have to resurrect them if they died. Essentially like hive guardians

And I'm sure he did also convert living eliksni even if we never got to witness it past the first cutscene.

[slim elk]

Pesky Eramis fleeing with the Echo when we could have used it to save those poor sods

[ember storm]

But that’s the thing

How is that a threat if all the scorn are doing is capturing Eliksni

What would be the point if they could literally just kill them and keep their bodies around to rez later

There is zero reason for that to be happening

It’s stupid

They present it like Fikrul is crusading around turning Eliksni in droves but all that’s happening is live capture

[slim elk]

(Plus we leave tons of corpses for him to revive...)

[ember storm]

He can just keep reviving the same corpses over and over if they’re intact

[slim elk]

Easy way to have the Echo be a threat is still the same thing that's implied canonically. Given them boosted abilities and intelligence

[little gorge]

that would have been extremely stupid of us

we know what she did with the veil on neomuna

and how she practically went insane in the process

[frigid sparrow]

Tbf Bungie also fucked up by having Fikrul show up like 3 total times before he ended up dying

They didn't show him doing anything because he straight up wasn't in the story lol

And even then his return wasn't from a background build up of power it was just the perfect echo for him landing on his doorstep and giving him the most convenient power ever

"oho, I have the echo of Riis and it allows me to reverse the polarity between like and dark, which is perfect for the ether in the eliksni that I can turn into dark ether now!" Like okay buddy

Even stuff like house salvation is them messing with means beyond their comprehension and we're actively targeting those behind the eliksni's capabilities to "control" stasis

[little gorge]

true but he looked like a badass when he crashed the helm

[frigid sparrow]

Iirc there's dialogue in kells vengeance that's like "okay skolas totally isn't fully dead" which we see from his totem leaving before we destroy it

[frigid sparrow]

Real, they fumbled my goat so bad...

[slim girder]

Yes. Rn Skolas is just this shell of himself that only seems to remember the call of the challenge of elders.

This immortal "boogeyman" of the tomb of elders.

[frigid sparrow]

But yeah the totems are something that are acknowledged sorta

[hearty coral]

Are Cayde-6 and Shin Malphur the only Hunters that have used Golden Gun by channeling Solar Light into their hand cannons, or is that something any Hunter can do? Makes me wonder if it’s easier that way instead of making a Golden Gun construct… a character idea occurs if this is accurate.

[trim grotto]

They're not the only ones. Doesn't even have to be a Handcannon, actually. Ana Bray channeled hers through 18 Kelvins, her Sidearm.

[hearty coral]

Does the weapon used affect how Golden Gun operates? Imagine the possibilities.

[trim grotto]

The only other example that comes to mind of a non-Handcannon Golden Gun was of a Hunter in the battle of Six Fronts with her rifle - but there haven't been any examples of an automatic Golden Gun, if that's what you're wondering.

Unless, of course, you count Shaw Han's application of Radiance - before Radiance from Solar 3.0 existed - to the Redjack Fireteam he was operating with.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-swarm
It's a good entry.

[hearty coral]

I was thinking of something like the Comrade’s Hammer from Cyberpunk…
Like some hand cannon modded to Hell and back to create a similar effect as Celestial Nighthawk.

The caveat being that the mods make the hand cannon unusable in a regular sense.

[trim grotto]

I can't provide you any directly relevant examples, but it seems plausible enough.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/starfire-protocol
Starfire is probably the closest example, at least off the top of my head. What we design can affect, even amplify, our Light.

[paper gorge]

Can a guardian/s share a ghost , or can get another one if their previous one died?

[ember storm]

If it were something that were possible there would be recorded cases

The fact that there’s instead thousands of ghosts who resorted to siding with the hive would suggest otherwise

[paper gorge]

Oh ok thanks

[trim grotto]

Circumstantial evidence suggests no, in other words. There's one argument for and multiple against.

[paper gorge]

I know this may sound stupid , is there a way for a guardian to permanently die , even though their ghost may still exist ?

[trim grotto]

Yes, the original Thorn was infamous for doing this.

It's why Dredgen Yor and his Thorn are so widely known.

[paper gorge]

Oh I didn't know that , I thought the thorn was the easiest to kill ghosts

[sick yew]

Thorn was easy cause it removed that whole part of the equation
Just shoot the dude

Dont need to hit those pesky little ghosts

Or when Ghaul cut the connection between Traveler and Ghosts

Guardian die then? Ghost cannot res Guardian again....ever

[trim grotto]

Actually yes the cage is another example
Remember the Ghost cage the Psion Conclave used on Targe back when Zavala and Caiatl were finalising the truce back in Chosen, @paper gorge? And Zavala lost his Light for a bit, got all weak, and Crow saved him but revealed his identity doing so?

[sick yew]

Yeah thatd be the 3rd example

ANd the 4th I can think of off the top of my head
uuh darkness zones

Like the canonical ones

[paper gorge]

Thanks a lot , it's been so long

[bleak crow]

This is probably a really stupid question but why do ghosts make that robotic sound before they start talking and after they finish?

is it because they are technically robots?

I used to think it was like a translator but that’s stupid

[mellow current]

how are guardian classes decided?

like are guardians born as a hunter/warlock/titan

or

do they choose it

can they change it?

[heady monolith]

classes are essentially a "social construct"

in lore, guardians arent locked to a class, if one really wanted to, they could learn how to do anything and everything

drifter is an example of this

he was risen before classes were made

[mellow current]

ohhh

damn

[heady monolith]

think of it like martial arts

[mellow current]

alright

interesting

[heady monolith]

you could be very proficient in muay thai, but one day you could go to learn kickboxing

felwinter, a warlock, was taught how to knee shoulder charge

[mellow current]

:O damn

why do the guardians conform to these constructs then

[heady monolith]

its a more focused and streamlined way to learn the light basically

also gameplay reasons

[mellow current]

i mean theyve been around for hundreds of years

surely theyd want to try something new

[mellow current]

yeah true

[heady monolith]

most guardians actually only use one or two subclasses

the guardian is just a complete freak who uses arc, void, solar, stasis, and strand

also created(?) prismatic

[mellow current]

oh yeah true

ikora only uses voidlock

i think weve seen her use arc?

[heady monolith]

she has used arc before

[mellow current]

yeah

[heady monolith]

during witch queen, she chaos reaches the door in the final mission

[mellow current]

did osiris switch to strand after lightfall?

[mellow current]

yeahh

i remember

[heady monolith]

osiris was kinda forced to since he had nothing at the start of lightfall's events

hes still using sunbracers even on strand smh my head

[mellow current]

still uses sunbracers tho

[mellow current]

yeah lmao

does ikora use an exotic we can see?

[heady monolith]

not to my knowledge

[ember storm]

People like to joke she uses ahamkara skull because of her flippant nova spam

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

She just has helmet off in non combat zones

[trim grotto]

I'm having words with you when I'm home Junie

[heady monolith]

uh oh

what have i misremembered

[heady monolith]

also combat zones

[ember storm]

Tactical advantage

She can detect enemy movement through changes in the air with her scalp

[fervent sandal]

who was ozot?

i think thats how you write his name. the guy who was mentioned in the insight terminus strike.

[jagged badge]

She is a Psion, who was unique in being freeborn. When Calus wanted to free the Psions as a whole, she didn’t like this because she enjoyed her position of unique status and power

[fervent sandal]

so i remeber correctly thats cool

she took part in the midnight coup right?

[trim grotto]

She certainly did! Because she was a horrid little gremlin.

If she didn't help overthrow Calus, her Freeborn status would be null and void - she overthrew him not for the good of her people, nor of the Cabal, but for personal, selfish gain.

[fervent sandal]

Ah ok

[slim girder]

Purely power obsessed.

She just wants a status that puts her above others

[hazy veldt]

could yall please write down a few of savathuns war crimes

like not all of them but i need it for reference

[dim minnow]

genocides on likely hundreds of species

[versed orbit]

psychological warfare on a galactic scale

[slow berry]

identity theft

identity returnal

[little gorge]

gaslighting

[ember storm]

Kidnapping

Murder

Torture of prisoners of war

Biological warfare

Media manipulation

[slow berry]

Necromancy

[ember storm]

That’s not a crime

[slow berry]

It is for the Hive!

Also racism

[little gorge]

im pretty sure if you raised the dead irl you would at least be locked in a cia facility somewhere

[ember storm]

Yeah but she isn’t doing any of it

Those are the thousands of sentient drones willingly doing it for her

[empty fern]

Mass cult following?

[slow berry]

Oh I meant hanging out with Nokris and shit

[dry sparrow]

Hey all,
I’m going on a Clovis Bray deep dive to better understand my Exo Hunter & the Stranger from the first game. Anyone want to discuss?

[eager trout]

What are the chances of us trying to go outside of Sol only to find out almost everything is Vex?

[empty fern]

Pretty low I think

[empty fern]

Like, d1?

[dry sparrow]

I’m not even sure. I found a transcript of his journal entries on the web & it got me hooked lol

[empty fern]

Real

[trim grotto]

I can certainly provide you with the two halves of the most key and relevant entry to the topic - Clovis Bray's Logbook. Probably followed up by... the Bray Lab Records - CONFIDENTIAL and Legacy's Lament/The Lament.
Also, I realise you said you found the transcript, but did you read both halves?
The Logbook in particular has a deep focus on Clovis and the Exo Stranger, but... as a first step, have you done Beyond Light (free campaign) and its post campaign content?

It's very directly relevant to them both.

[next bobcat]

oh btw mael what is clarity control

[trim grotto]

The Dissenter Statue you see during the Deep Stone Crypt Raid. Clarity itself, therefore, is the Darkness it was radiating.

[next bobcat]

wow

cool

[wheat zenith]

btw ßahira

they’re prob smth important

hope that helps

[wet monolith]

I assumed that much since they seemed to be prevalent in earlier d2, but I haven't played back that far so I'm kind of at a loss

[wheat zenith]

they look like awoken who transcended to another plane thanks to ahamkara

if that doesn’t look awoken idk what does

[slim girder]

Wait what's this about?

[wheat zenith]

what are the nine

[slim girder]

Ohhh ok

[wheat zenith]

they kinda just seem to be placed in destiny 2 for no big reason

[slim girder]

The nine are space dust. They require the existence of others to survive and a goal of there's has been to gather enough dark matter to sustain themselves without the reliance on others like the guardians

[wheat zenith]

so beings of great power but with a catch

seems like an ahamkara wish

[slim girder]

No. It's just how they are. There's more lore but I'm not confident I could tell anything more in depth and accurate

[wheat zenith]

wtf

buncha space wierdos if u ask me

[slim girder]

They've always been observers to the universe

[tough badge]

who is observing them????

[wheat zenith]

observers

really living up to the name lmfaoo

[slim girder]

Like one of them thought it'd be interesting to knock out earths satellites which let the red legion ambush us so well. The nine that pulled that stunt was "punished" in some way

They've been around since D1

They might not always have a reason for being there but they're some of the most important beings in the game. If the nine are involved it's definitely worth investigating

[little gorge]

they're ancient loops of dark matter dust bound to planets in our system but their consciousness depends on the existence of life in sol

[trim grotto]

That would be the Emissary of the Nine, once known as Orin. She is not of the Nine herself, and was once a Titan of the Last City, and before that, an Awoken of the Reef.

Before that, she was a human aboard the Yang Liwei, but that's too far back to be relevant.

[slim girder]

Think a lot of people in the lore confuse the emmisary/orin for an actual member of the nine.

[trim grotto]

Well, she does speak for them.

[slim girder]

Well yeah but what I meant was like she's not a member of THE nine. We have yet to actually meet one of them.

[trim grotto]

The Nine themselves are essentially Boltzmann Brains. I recommend the lore book Dust if you want to learn of the Nine, particularly the aptly named entry within it, The Nine.
The Nine exist as loops and swirls of Dark Matter that were caught in the gravitational wells of the celestial bodies of Sol. These loops are their body, and their mind is the life across the Solar System. Without gravity, they don't exist. Without life, they cannot think.
The Nine, while operating in two major groups with two different paths, all want one goal - freedom and independence. Freedom from the shackles of life and gravity.

They did, in fact, try to Wish to the Ahamkara for this, once.

The Ahamkara being as they are - and the Nine being very decidedly inhuman in the way they think - caused the Wish to be nearly totally useless to the Nine.

[trim grotto]

True. It's an understandable mistake, though.

[slim girder]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

Where Xûr is their Agent, and a bit of a prototype (as he is poorly made and dying, as the Nine hardly comprehend life), Orin, the Emissary, is the superior.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust
Here's the aforementioned book. Very relevant.

Hope these answers help you too, @wet monolith

[ember storm]

Rock's

[empty trout]

What's that symbol on the butt of Delicate Tomb? Reminds me of a fossil.

[hot sierra]

What 'species' is Saint 14 btw? He sounds like an exo lol

[empty trout]

He is indeed an Exo. Anyone with a -number suffix next to their name is an Exo. I believe that number represents the number of resets they have had in their life. In Saint's case, he has been reset 15 times. Banshee-44 has been reset 44 times. I forget why they reset.

[ember storm]

They’re iteration numbers, usually coming from a reset, although in the golden age Bray Exoscience on Europa had the means of saving and loading exo memories into new bodies if the original was destroyed

All of banshee’s previous iterations came from fighting and dying to vex, aside from his latest, which was an intentional memory wipe to remove the knowledge of being Clovis

the original human versions would be counted as [Name]-0 sequentially

[shrewd ravine]

I don’t know if there truly is one, but besides from prismatic what is the strongest subclass lore wise? They may all be equal idk

[ember storm]

I mean there’s not totally any meaningful distinction

Only in very specific and minute differences in application

Like you can physically restrain someone with strand without inherently hurting them

Solar light can heal wounds

[wet monolith]

It probably has something to do with Nezarec, given the connection the weapon shares with him

[orchid flame]

Which station is moon and which is sun again between dsc and vesper station

[ember storm]

Huh

[dim minnow]

the space station we go to in Deep Stone Crypt is the Morningstar

[orchid flame]

Thank you

let me link the video I first heard it from

https://youtu.be/_ybWV2lfmnY?si=w5Yjv-B9LF7wg6M4

[wheat zenith]

anotha raid

no exotic sadly

[trim grotto]

Pardon?

[wheat zenith]

just finished vog

[trim grotto]

I... think you wanted #✨destiny-discussion?

[wheat zenith]

oh

mb

[jagged badge]

What are the lore reasons for my bad RNG?

[blazing wasp]

every particle of the travelers being exists to spite you

[slim girder]

Rahool has favourite guardians.

[jagged badge]

[orchid flame]

who are/were the kentarch 3

[umbral lotus]

a fireteam that went into the Black Garden

iirc the Titan and Warlock sided with the Darkness/Witness, and the Hunter killed them, then requested the Witness wipe his memory

but i could be mixing things up

[orchid flame]

Oh damn

Thank you

[slow berry]

Lucky Raspberry's flavor text says "No one has ever died wearing me". Given that Eris Morn fucking died, do you reckon they're gonna change that or is the Raspberry going to argue that she's not dead so it still counts in court

[blazing wasp]

id say its underselling the lucky rasberry saying "no one has died wearing me"
whats cooler? nobody dying wearing the armor, or someone flipping of death right in its face, and getting away with it?

[ember storm]

I would render it null anyway since she wasn’t actually using it then

No nades to use it with so it’s not the fault of the armor

[slow berry]

why is eris using lucky raspberry on stasis is she stupid

[shadow nexus]

I mean, is she though???????? lol

[shadow nexus]

they reset to avoid this games version of rampancy. like they added in a need to breathe to help avoid this, and plenty of other things, but basically the mind starts to reject their existence.

[blazing wasp]

she has died, she just didnt stay dead

[shadow nexus]

i mean thats the entire mechanic of the game though

[sick yew]

Well you see Eris isnt a lightbearer tho

[hollow hinge]

She doesn't have a ghost

[sick yew]

Her whole stick was being an ex-hive god

[hollow hinge]

Technically now current Hive god, no?

[sick yew]

Depends on your definition ig

[shadow nexus]

its not a true death even the echo of the navigator distinguishes the difference her physical death is just as meaningless as a guardians

[sick yew]

A "true death" is one you dont return from, ever

[shadow nexus]

exactly

[sick yew]

The term is usually used for Lightbearers tho

[shadow nexus]

and if shes still wearing it that means it still recognises her

[green cobalt]

Somehow, Palpatine returned

[sick yew]

For the hive you kill them...and then you kill them again in their funky little pocket dimension

[hollow hinge]

Wearing what?

[green cobalt]

Lucky raspberry ig?

[shadow nexus]

the lucky raspberry

yeah

[jagged badge]

No

She lost all that power and her Hive form

[hollow hinge]

Yet still has the throne world? Interesting

[empty fern]

Of course YOU’D know

[wheat flower]

A murder on the damce floor

Killed oryx in his groove

[frigid sparrow]

mara sov has a throne world too, it's not limited to being hive, albeit it is typically based on sword logic

[hollow hinge]

I didn't imply that, I meant it's weird she still has it without any power like that

[slim girder]

Well eris throne world isn't very big to our knowledge. Unlike oryxs, savathuns or xivus which could be classed as literal worlds.
Toland isn't a hive god and even he managed to claim some spit of land in the ascendant plane.

I feel if Eris wanted to expand her throne world she would have to embrace the sword logic again. Though I don't think she's interested in doing that unless a situation called for it.

[frigid sparrow]

Doesn't Eris say she'd like to explore her throne world? I think that implies it's probably a lot larger than we might anticipate. still not as big as the actual hive gods maybe, but still pretty large

[sick yew]

In the last entry of the seasonal lorebook yes

She and Drifter stay there to explore her "mind space" essentially

[slim girder]

I'm sure there's still a few secrets to her throne world. Like who knows what's in all those scrolls lining the walls.

[sick yew]

(And also they kiss)

[slim girder]

Surprised we didn't use the mini area underneath the throne world spawn for at least 1 story beat

Like we didn't see eris sitting at the table or anything

[hazy veldt]

why do we never use soteria

she is free now as far as i understand

[trim grotto]

"Use"?

[hazy veldt]

strongest calculation engine available to mankind

[trim grotto]

Ah, well. Sort of, not really.
Soteria was fragmented when Clovis Bray activated the partition. She attempted to create a Submind in the split second this happened, and that damaged fragment went off and ended up on Neomuna as the Occlusion. But it isn't a whole Submind, it's a damaged, torn off fragment. What remained of Soteria was just as damaged, and when the events of SotW occured and the firewall was lowered, she jumped ship before everything was wiped, into the nearest available system - Hierarchy of Needs.

It's her guidance systems that power the tracking of the Exotic.

[hazy veldt]

ah

well that sucks

theoretically this could be one of humanity's strongest allies

i mean shit, she foresaw black fleet without having a slightest clue of its existence beforehand

too bad her capabilities are limited to a lame bow

[calm granite]

based guardian putting almost reality warping entities into guns

[trim grotto]

(she put herself there)

[calm granite]

that's what we made her believe

[sick yew]

Tbf being a Lightbearers weapon sounds like a pretty cool state to be

Xol recognized that

[ember storm]

he's doing it to dodge taxes

[sick yew]

Alright lore nerds

Lets get to work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4utXKvOpYM&ab_channel=Destiny2

This obviously means Rasputin is still alive

As you can see by the bit of red on the right of it

What we see here is obviously the work of Siva, Devil Splicers are back and they got their own planet now

Not quite sure what this is supposed to be, I think it might be a hunter, could be a Titan too

[little gorge]

no the planet is clearly red we are looking at nessus 2

[sick yew]

And I think this is the 15th Wish

Okay memes aside

I strongly assume the far right is supposed to mean Kepler

[little gorge]

yeah but there's a billion planets and stars named kepler

[sick yew]

Also known as the guy who essentially created the telescope

[little gorge]

because of the telescope

[sick yew]

mhm

[little gorge]

oh you're thinking it's the guy

[sick yew]

Maybe

Also

Maybe we'll find the nine inside some kind of black hole?

Or the lead us to one

[hazy veldt]

chicago is kinda inhabited by some unimaginable horror

[sick yew]

I somehow dont belief thats supposed to mean Chicago

[hazy veldt]

i mean that doesnt really differ from reality

[sick yew]

Apart from making no god damn sense thematic wise the letters dont match

[sleek matrix]

Nine streams going into the planet

This is all defo nine related

[sick yew]

Theyre funding the devil splicers duh

[sleek matrix]

Maybe the nine are making a black hole

The unknown beckons.

[hollow oar]

They shot my boy dead in chicago

[sick yew]

Theyre now the Eight cause one of them got clapped downtown

[little gorge]

actually i think thats just one of the nine in full

coming out from the planet

[sick yew]

They arent actually confined to their planets no?

Theyre just space dust with thought

[little gorge]

"Their hearts were in the cores of worlds, but their farthest streams faded out into the turn of the galaxy."

it looks like what this passage is describing

(from the nine entry in the dust lore book)

[shrewd ravine]

What if it’s the guy from vespers (I have no idea what I’m talking about$

[sick yew]

Lmfao

[little gorge]

in the shot where the guardian is passing through all those planets there's at least 15 planetary bodies

[hollow hinge]

Yea it's some kind of wormhole for sure

Which makes destroying the echo of navigation imo such a weird direction... it would've been the perfect way to explain this new method of travel

[little gorge]

if only we had someone who could help us... navigate outside sol

[slim girder]

Thoughts on the edge of fate teaser? Very interesting stuff

Curious about that device that was inside that satellite or whatever it was.

Wormholes maybe?

Or an anomaly caused by the nine?

Cocatys apertures?

Sry for my spelling lol

[sick yew]

I mean there's not too much to go off of yet

[sick yew]

You can read my personal theories here

[slim girder]

Yeah I'm just speculating lol.

[slim girder]

Bruh those are some damn solid theories

I think you might have it guessed right

Also I think that's actually a warlock we see in the teaser.

[little gorge]

it's siva

it's always siva

clearly that blue stuff is just blue siva

[slim girder]

Nah it's green so the nine must be trying to link planets together with big strand tethers so that we won't need ships anymore to go to different planets.

[slim girder]

Here's my actual theory on it.
It mentioned "Kepler" at the end of the teaser
Kepler or it's successors K2 is an IRL space satellite designed to identify solar systems outside of our own, dubbed "Kepler systems.
This must be the original way we start this new expansion or something through the coordinates found on the satellite. We punch that into our warp drives and end up finding that huge anomaly.

[little gorge]

the thing is if the kepler space telescope existed in destiny that was pre golden age

also we don't have "warp drives"

[dim minnow]

we have NLS drives

[slim girder]

Ghost in destiny 1 specifically called our first ships NLS drive a warp drive.
Obviously he could have been generalising but I don't think ghost would do that tbh.

He's telling us the part we need

[hazy veldt]

who is merain?

also who is yasmin

im unfamiliar with kf's loot references

[jagged badge]

An Awoken Paladin

There are however, no other hits on Ishtar for “Merain” but the weapon’s name

Generally, they are all victims of Oryx

[ember storm]

More like victim’s of Mara’s shit round of battleships

[slim girder]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Mara knew she wasn't going to win right? The whole thing was part of a bigger plan.

[ember storm]

Yeah and she didn’t tell any of her followers

They all put their lives on the line knowing they could die sure but the plan literally hinged on oryx wasting a bunch of energy ie killing everyone

[slim girder]

Pretty dark that Mara essentially sent awoken into a meat grinder and then disappeared once the weapon had been fired all as part of a plan.

Including her own brother

[jagged badge]

I mean

She died when the weapon was fired

[bleak crow]

Will there ever a point where we run out of people to become guardians?

[dim minnow]

The limit is how many Ghosts currently exist

[bleak crow]

can more be made?

[jagged badge]

Not really

[dim minnow]

No

[bleak crow]

so once we run out of ghosts we’re fucked

[dim minnow]

All Ghosts were created at the end of the Collapse

[jagged badge]

There are an unknown amount of Ghosts in existence. For Bungie to keep justifying the existence of New Lights and more and more Hive Lightbearers even, this number is kept vague

The point being, we aren’t going to run out of Ghosts

Because there always needs to be Ghosts for the game

[slim girder]

They even lean into this more with Micah. The den mother for lost ghosts.

Obviously no clue how many ghosts were created but it could definitely be in the millions just going off the cinematic in final shape showing them be born.

[hazy veldt]

Not really

Being lightless will surely be catastrophic but in such case, man would be forced to delve deeper into darkness

And how that ends only depends on humans

[wheat flower]

I mean HOPEFULLY

By the time we run out of ghosts we'd have made like some great technological advancments

We have eliksni splicers and cabal psioks and humans all working together

The next golden age we get is gonna put the last one 2 shame

[hazy veldt]

The next golden age won’t happen because we constantly have shit happening at our doorstep

Let it be hive having family disputes

Nine member throwing tantrums

We have at least 2 unknown disciples

Savathun literally said no more puppies and rainbows

Xivu wrath still exists

which is by itself problem enough

Also we literally have traveler cut open and we have 0 idea how to fix it

So leaving Sol system ain’t a solution hence we can’t grab traveler with us

Ah, almost forgot

Vex

[slim girder]

Conflict was in the golden age as well.
Even with all those threats life in the city is actually not too bad. Eliksni are cabal are allies. We don't have anything threatening reality itself atm like the witness did.

We are in a very good position to deter threats.

[hazy veldt]

“Life in the city”

Dawg

We had entire sol system as our domicile

[jagged badge]

I mean, there wasn’t a great deal of conflict in the Golden Age really

[hazy veldt]

“Conflict was during golden age as well”

Fuck no it wasn’t

[jagged badge]

Nothing remotely compared to what we experience now

[hazy veldt]

We did not beef with hive

At the very least

[slim girder]

The point was there's always going to be conflict of some kind. Just look at the creation of the exo. Bad shit was happening in the golden age in the pursuit of progress

[hazy veldt]

U compared usage of clarity and clovis’s shinenigans with vex

To what we have now?

[wheat flower]

Well tbf

[hazy veldt]

[wheat flower]

As far as enemy factions ho one could argue the v3x should really be at the top of the list

[hazy veldt]

We literally have mercury being a planet sized fucking simulation engine

[slim girder]

The vex have always been a threat and most likely will be permanently. That's why I don't really count them because they'll just always be there

It's like trying to get rid of mosquitoes

[hazy veldt]

Yeah but mosquitoes can travel through time and it’s not even their best feat

[wheat flower]

2 disciples aside , Savathun really isn't that big of an issue

We've beat her about 3 times now

Xivu is at her most vulnerable currently

[hazy veldt]

Plot armor

[wheat flower]

And we have our own hive god!

As far as bad positions go we could be worse

[hazy veldt]

Also imagine living in a house a having one of your rooms infested with them to the point where they literally build a computer that runs trillions of ways how to fucking kill you

[jagged badge]

We do not

[hazy veldt]

she refused this power

To remain loyal to mankind

Or smth like it

[slim girder]

And so far we've only had one actual vex incursion in the city.
We live in a place filled to brim with beings vex literally search timelines to get away from

And that energy is pumped through the city walls

[hazy veldt]

Earth is by itself fucked beyond repair

Because during the collapse pyramids decided that it would be hella funny to throw cosmic horrors at us

Old Chicago best example

[slim girder]

Yeah and the city is plenty enough. Same goes for neomuna. We don't need to retake all of earth and we sort of already have. It's a lot more peaceful now.

[jagged badge]

Not exactly

She rejected the Sword Logic by the non-violent spell she enacted against Xivu, and that resulted in her physically losing the power no matter what

[hazy veldt]

Yk maybe it’s just me but you can’t call something a “golden age 2” for species when you are forced to live in 1 city on 1 planet, having to constantly fight literal gods, hide behind mile tall walls and coping with your other almost destroyed ally species

But maybe it’s just me

[trim grotto]

Pyrite Age

[slim girder]

We aren't constantly fighting though. We haven't really had to "fight" them since season of the witch up until this episode. Final shape savathun was more in a temporary truce until the witness was beaten

We're still alert sure but actively fighting? Not really

[hazy veldt]

How does temporary ceasefire push a civilisation into prosperity

[hazy veldt]

new taken god

We did not face it yet but it’s out there

And it knows about us

Maybe it is rogue nine member which does not make situation any better

[slim girder]

And we'll face it when it comes.

Like we did when the witness arrived. We prepared and everything

[hazy veldt]

Uhh

Sorry to disappoint you but if zavala did not talk to that dissenter

We would not be rn

Our existence was saved by a fluke

[slim girder]

As most things in destiny.

We literally charged into savathuns throne world to stop her from stealing the traveler.
Same with calus we mounted a full on assault to get to the veil before him.

[hazy veldt]

Calus was a cannon fodder so I would not count him

Witness practically used him to lure us into the veil containment and it did not even took into equation probability that he may survive our fight

Poor guy

[hollow hinge]

Savathun did not leave us be while we fought the witness....

[trim grotto]

She wasn't exactly trying to kill us either, though. She was... Teaching us a lesson, in a rather violent Hive way, but not declaring war. And she was actively on our side during the battle, fighting side by side with us when the big event happened.

Classic enemy of my enemy schtick

[ember storm]

Lucent hive immediately jumped to active invasion of the pale heart when it died, though

[trim grotto]

Also true
Enemy of my enemy is still my enemy

[ember storm]

It’s fun to joke about auntie savvy but she fuckin hates our guts now lol

Everything beforehand was sort of reluctant respect or sarcastic manners

Next time we meet I honestly don’t see her saying anything more than a couple sentences before trying to disintegrate us

[thorny scarab]

LORE PEEPS

Was this always here?

[trim grotto]

Is that... In the EDZ? By the forest edge?

[thorny scarab]

Yeah!

Dark Forest

[trim grotto]

Then yes. I believe it's been in flux across the years regarding how active it is, but the portal - or this nascent bud of one - has been a thing since the Red War.

[empty fern]

Ah~ the old subclass upgrades, how I miss those missions

[dim minnow]

Into the Light, Inner Light (action and high action), and Be Brave my beloved

[sick yew]

Is it just me or is it interesting that we are now collecting chess pieces despite there being "no more pieces left to place" according to the Witness

[little gorge]

we really defined our destiny there

[sick yew]

And then Cayde said "You defined your Destiny too" before 360 no-scoping the Witness

[slim girder]

Curious what these "special" chess pieces mean.

[sick yew]

The Nine are hard at work creating Chess 2

[slim girder]

The ones that say either conversion or deletion

And the deletion ones look like the witness sliced them or something

[sick yew]

You got an image?

[slim girder]

Gimme a sec

It's "Fractured" just like something the witness would do. And when I picked it up it said deletion

[sick yew]

That d oesnt really look like Witness slice

Its too uh unclean?

The Witness slices with utter precision

[slim girder]

Yeah i know i'm just saying it looks like something the witness would do.

With the whole chopping things up

[sick yew]

I dont get that vibe personally

A normal cut by the Witness would be perfectly straight and it isnt really fractured all final shape like either with uh idk how to word it but yk what I mean

[blazing wasp]

This looked like something struck it

With like a hammer or something

[slim girder]

Yeah or it's symbolic or something. I wonder if the more inportant pieces placed near vendors mean something to

Clovis has a bishop

Elsie has a pawn

Drifter has a rook

Zavalas office has a pawn

[sick yew]

Okay that is far more interesting

Whos got king and queen?

Savy (Throne World) and Oryx (Dreadnaught)?

[blazing wasp]

The rook

[slim girder]

There is a queen piece in the court of blades.

In particular the room from derealize

[sick yew]

Interesting

Also I cant help but feel like Zavala being a pawn is cause mans lightless now

Bit of a foul move from the Nine ngl

[slim girder]

Drifter has the rook next to him but he also sells 5 other pieces

A pawn, knight, bishop, conversion and deletion.

[sick yew]

I wonder if how much the final tab of the seasonal lorebook is an indicator that both Eris and Drifter will be out of the ingame narrative for foreseeable future

[slim girder]

I view it like Saint and Osiris. I don't think they'll be completely out of the narrative but they'll be occupied with other things and can leave things behind for a while to be with each and exploring Eris throne.

A honeymoon kinda

[river creek]

I didn't play d1, and I got into d2 too late for red war, but could the speaker actually speak to the traveler?

[trim grotto]

Well, sort of. He received cryptic visions from the Traveler which he had to interpret.

What he said to Ghaul was a bit of a white lie.

[river creek]

What did he say?

[trim grotto]

He said he spoke for the Traveler, but not that it spoke to him.

[river creek]

oh

[trim grotto]

It did, just not in words or any way easy to understand.

[slim girder]

No. Speakers can hear the travelers messages. But it's not like the traveler is speaking directly to him more just calling out for anyone that might be able to hear it

This usually comes in the forms of dreams and speakers were at one point known as dreamers instead

[river creek]

so only specific guardians can understand it and actually receive the message?

best i could word it

[slim girder]

Not guardians specifically. It's just a gift to some beings it seems. Signs are stuff like ghosts following you..

[river creek]

damn

[slim girder]

And it's not a simple message. More cryptic and the speaker has to interpret it

[river creek]

huh

strange

[trim grotto]

The Speaker was no Guardian.

Merely a man.

[river creek]

he wasnt?

[slim girder]

As the speaker said he spoke for the traveler but never said it spoke to him

[slim girder]

No

[trim grotto]

It's a common misunderstanding given his Warlock-ish vibes and the fact that Ghosts flock to him, as they did to all Speakers, but he wasn't.

[river creek]

i just assumed because he was in the tower and everything