📚lore-discussion

[green cobalt]

Do we know how the vex (particularly the sol divisive) reacted to the witness dying (if at all) or do they not care and just started simulating around that?

[lofty badge]

i think the rest of the rest vex keeps on going but they are also dealing with a civil war

[slim girder]

They are grieving iirc

[lofty badge]

is more fun to kill lucent hive now with savathun hating us even more

[eager trout]

Ironically enough, they may have just been like "well...that just happened", and then went on with normal Vex activities

[eager trout]

Isn't the civil war between mormal Vex and The Conductor's Vex?

[lofty badge]

yes

[eager trout]

Ok

[clear knot]

So, were the Echos just kinda pointless? Command is destroyed/lost to space iirc (I just remember we killed Maya), Revenant is with Eramis on Riis, and Navigation is destroyed. What was the point of them?

[jagged badge]

We didn’t kill Maya

She escaped with the Echo of Command

[slim girder]

They were to symbolise the aftermath of our battle with the witness and the power vacuum that was created by it.

The echoes are supposed to be the start of new things happening in the universe and opening up new mysteries and introducing new threats.

[zinc kite]

Anyone remember what the farm was called before it got that label? i thought it had a different name when d2 launched but maybe im mistaken

[green cobalt]

The point of episodes was to tie up some loose ends before moving on to the new saga

[tawdry wigeon]

Hey i got a question. Am i the only one who feels like the least developed part of the story is the Vex? Like lately ive been looking into some lore for each faction and all that and i find the vex to be our biggest enemy yet, but there hasnt been much in a while. And yes the episode 1 was something but didnt add much to the whole vex bubble. Am I missing something here?

[tough badge]

wait xivu said god of war i thought savathun said that

btw is the echo destroyed or did it just turn back into light and float around or something?

[hazy veldt]

echo is reduced to atoms

[tough badge]

rip

[hazy veldt]

rip indeed

[versed orbit]

pretty sure it was always called the farm

[tough badge]

was kinda hoping that the echo could have like... done something

[jagged badge]

?

[tough badge]

i dont remember i might have just not been paying attention lol

[hazy veldt]

mind u, before it was destroyed, oryx had full ass 2 min identity crisis, eventually he wanted to perish

[tough badge]

he fr said "I dont wan do this no more 😭 "

[hazy veldt]

both of his sisters betrayed their ways, every vow oryx made was not accomplished, "if oryx is dead, then i am not him"

bro had enough

[zinc kite]

Wasnt the enclave exterior apart of the mars social space when warmind dropped? for some reason i vaguely remember being able to go there in some capacity but cant find any videos/screenshots of it pre-enclave

[hazy veldt]

wait

who the fuck is vuvuzela

[empty fern]

Ashir mirs remnants

[hazy veldt]

he is dead?

[zinc kite]

cant tell if meme cuz the quote is "who is vuvuzela" but im pretty sure that was Ashir Mir's try at doing Zavala's name

or it was like a nickname or something i forget

[hazy veldt]

i deadass dont know, i started playing in the end of season of the wish

i just saw the dialogue and amazed by how idiotic name is

[zinc kite]

from the vexcalibur mission?

[hazy veldt]

ye

[sick yew]

Yeah he said it a few times

Initially a throwaway line in Red War and then they brought it back as a sort of running gag

[zinc kite]

ye i was thinkin it was somethin like that

I still cant find anything about the enclave exterior, pre-enclave lol, idk why i remember being able to explore it when warmind dropped but maybe not

[sick yew]

You must be confusing it with something else

The Enclave location isnt anywhere near Hellas Basin

[zinc kite]

was the area ever reused in any capacity? idk why but i remember the same space just without the door, idk if ikora was there or not but, maybe it was a seperate tp or something?

the desert exterior*

[sick yew]

Considering I spend a long ass time on Mars initially when I hunted for all the little plates that were part of the Wordline Zero quest, I cant think of any location resembling that of the Enclave

Hellas Basin is mostly coated in snow and ice if you remember

Which as we know from Season of Seraph is still there

The Enclave however has none of that

[zinc kite]

true that was the only thing throwing me off the most

maybe im just conflating the skyboxes or something

there were plenty of desert-side clifs to stare off of

[sick yew]

Yeah

[zinc kite]

appreciate it 🙂

[sick yew]

No worries

[tough badge]

ya they turned him into a vex incursion bot

[sick yew]

Theres a small but <0% that some random ass Vex goblin that you blew to shreads in a Neomuna patrol zone was indeed Asher Mir

[bleak crow]

Is it true that anyone can wield darkness?

[hazy veldt]

light is to be given and darkness is to be taken

as far as i understand it

[bleak crow]

so then how the fuck did Zavala use Stasis?

[trim grotto]

In theory, yes. But there is a lot of required practice - it's a dangerous thing to learn.

[bleak crow]

Didn’t he loose his ghost?

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure what you mean. The same way we did, presumably.

[hazy veldt]

strand killed guardian shitload of times before we mastered it

[trim grotto]

Our Ghosts are the catalyst that allows us to wield Light.

They have nothing to do with Darkness.

[hazy veldt]

he asked ikora to teach him stasis thats it

[hazy veldt]

if forsaken zavala heard that he would end up using darkness

[bleak crow]

do you not need light to wield darkness?

[trim grotto]

Yes, I know he has used it - but a Ghost is irrelevant.

[hazy veldt]

nope?

[slow berry]

No

Thats kinda, yknow, the point

[bleak crow]

[hazy veldt]

thats the whole gimmick of the darkness

[trim grotto]

As I said already, anyone may learn Darkness - in theory.

[bleak crow]

But it’s just dangerous as fuck

right?

[hazy veldt]

requires a lot of practise

[trim grotto]

Indeed it is
You must control your emotions or it will control you

[slow berry]

It leads to a bad ending in a buncha other timelines

But like yknow just be chill about it

[bleak crow]

Like exo’s timeline right?

Because didn’t her timeline go to shit because of that stasis bitch

[hazy veldt]

i dont even wanna mention elsie

[trim grotto]

The use of Stasis was not the catalyst there. Also, Elsie has experienced literally countless timelines.

[bleak crow]

Who’s Elsie?

[slow berry]

The Exo Stranger

[hazy veldt]

her name

[slow berry]

Elizabeth Bray

[bleak crow]

I thought it was just exo stranger

[hazy veldt]

elsie bray

[bleak crow]

I didn’t know she actually had a name

[trim grotto]

Granddaughter to Clovis Bray

[bleak crow]

isn’t banshee her grandpa

[trim grotto]

Yes, Clovis Bray.

[slow berry]

Thats Clovis Bray

[hazy veldt]

banshee used to be her grandpa at some point thats for sure

[trim grotto]

You might want to delve into the post campaign content of Beyond Light

[bleak crow]

it’s been so long since I’ve actually done Beyond light I didn’t even remember

[hazy veldt]

elsie's story is so poor written imo

[hazy veldt]

i can sum it up if u wish

[bleak crow]

is Ava related to Bray? Since she’s an advanced exo prototype

[hazy veldt]

uh

whole another story

[bleak crow]

Ada*

[hazy veldt]

every exo is related to bray

[trim grotto]

Ada-1. Not exactly. She's a CB/BA collaboration.

[hazy veldt]

wait fr?

i thought only bray created exos

[little gorge]

he got turned into a reminder for an obsolete exotic armor farm 😔

[bleak crow]

what makes her so special?

[jagged badge]

Why’s that?

[trim grotto]

Yes, they made the body as a collaborative effort with the Black Armory.

[bleak crow]

Eris why are you pink

[jagged badge]

I’m mint green

[bleak crow]

[hazy veldt]

force that moved her back in time - unknown
motive of this force - unknown
why elsie - unknown

[trim grotto]

As a collaborative effort, her body is essentially a walking Forge. I'll have to let Eris continue this though, as I've got to go for a while.

[jagged badge]

Is that poor writing though?

[hazy veldt]

well yeah

we have a force capable of warping time

just out there

affecting 1 character only

for no reason virtually

[jagged badge]

It being a mystery doesn’t necessarily make it bad writing

[bleak crow]

@jagged badge

tell me stories hive god

[jagged badge]

The Black Armory is probably one of my weaker areas of knowledge ngl

[bleak crow]

[hazy veldt]

dont even get me started about black garden

[bleak crow]

I’m just gunna assume it’s explained in the books

[hazy veldt]

to be short, ada is one of very few exos who virtually does not need rebooting, since she was made into an exo in her childhood

[little gorge]

what exactly is unexplained about the black garden

[hazy veldt]

oh boy

[bleak crow]

nice

[hazy veldt]

in first destiny narrative implied that proto-garden is the black garden, then it got retconned, but we still havent heard the explanation behind its existence, the proto-garden was told to be before space and time existed, if its true, what does tree stump has to do in garden, how tree of silver wings sprouted there in the first place, why does garden assimilate everything in it, now about vex, it now has been told that a vex mind created black heart, BUT it was also told that the black heart WAS the factor why vex faction decided to remain in the garden in the first place, so how the fuck vex created something that was already there before their arrival

[hazy veldt]

now id appreciate some knowledge

[little gorge]

first of all

unveiling is an allegory

it is explicitly stated in the book that there was no real garden

the witness planted a "seed" in the black garden in an attempt to create a copy of the veil

the result of that failed attempt is the black heart

[hazy veldt]

it has been said straight that vex mind created black heart

in lightfall

[hazy veldt]

this does not explain anything

[trim grotto]

In Lightfall it was explained that the Witness provided the Sol Divisive with the "seed" for the Black Heart. They did not create it.

I'm at work so my opportunity for replies and explanations is hampered

[empty fern]

Gah

[bleak crow]

Is there a lore explanation for what exactly happened to The Black Armory?

like why it’s not here anymore

[trim grotto]

Yes
I'll elaborate in half an hourish

[frigid sparrow]

long story short: after everything that happened with siviks and with the arrival of the pyramids, the guardians were too busy with other things to be defending the forges consistently and the fallen were able to scrap the remains

[bleak crow]

the fallen are my enemies now

if I remember correctly, wasn’t the black armory missions like wave defense against fallen

Or was it cabal

[frigid sparrow]

both, mostly fallen but cabal were in like one or two

and it was less waves and more "throw orbs at the forge to power it then fight boss"

[bleak crow]

So like onslaught

[frigid sparrow]

oh, it was 2 fallen, 1 cabal, 1 vex

very short onslaught and not like official "waves" just constant enemies

[bleak crow]

or is it exactly like onslaught

[bleak crow]

Oh ok

I just remember loving it

[frigid sparrow]

but from the pathfinding lorebook,

"Sun's fading, "Artemis said. "Devrim's got eyes on a Fallen raiding party. Not headed our way yet, but I'd rather not take chances. You have what you need?"

"Hardly," Ada said. "But we won't find much else—this area has been thoroughly scavenged, same as the others."

"Fallen?" Artemis asked.

"With no Guardians bothering to stop them? Could have been anyone."

Artemis winced. "I can only imagine how you must feel. The Vanguard had a tough call to make… planetary evacs came first."

[bleak crow]

So they just let the forges get dismantled?

[frigid sparrow]

not much that could've been done

you can view it as a meta thing, how older activities barely get as much play

[bleak crow]

where’s the Noble 14 when you need them

[ashen comet]

miss it or not, and regardless of your opinion, most things that were vaulted/straight up deleted were barely played anymore, the leviathan raids were largely hated/considered just okay, same with CoO and Warmind. but yeah theyre not really gonna just, not have a lore reason for it

[ashen comet]

its even further confirmed although arguably that the Winnower is just using the Precursors terms for The Traveler, as they were the ones we know of that coined the term "The Gardener" in the first place

[plain topaz]

What is the hive brood(s) that we find on the cosmodrome and trhe dreaming city

[ember storm]

Cosmodrome is supposed to be hidden swarm from the moon (Crota’s brood who tried to launch an invasion) but they just use the basic D2 models instead of the red ones on the moon

Dreaming City is just generally Xivu’s hive although a few other exceptions were there on behalf of Savathun (not actually part of her recent lucent brood though)

[plain topaz]

Interesting

[ember storm]

entire reason the DC went to shit is because Savathun basically made a deal with riven

[dim minnow]

really it went to shit because of the Battle of Saturn

[ember storm]

It was just like

A bit of a mold infection

[dim minnow]

the Techeuns tried to escape the Dreadnaught superweapon, but due to the nature of the weapon, Oryx was able to discover the Dreaming City and so he invaded it

[ember storm]

I love information sourced from TTP

My favorite flavor

[dim minnow]

Oryx invading the Dreaming City is true at least

and Truth to Power, even if it is a dubious source, provides a valid explanation for it

[ember storm]

I love the idea of the techuens just like, leaving a magic breadcrumb trail that oryx meticulously follows centimeter by centimeter which is the only reason we can successfully board the Dreadnaught largely untouched

[trim grotto]

The WQ CE having TTP validation was a triumph for dozens of us

[dim minnow]

as in Truth to Power is confirmed to be an actual good source?

[ember storm]

I mean most parts

That was the whole idea

Funnily enough Splicer mentioned that “Osiris” would be personally diving into all vanguard records on Savathun to discern the truths from any of the sources we had on her

[dim minnow]

well yeah, the part about Eris' pre-Guardian life is definitely false

[ember storm]

the thing of the message relating to it being sent

Eris actually being a child born in the city was investigated by the hidden and found to be true

[trim grotto]

Having actual truth within the lies, yeah

[ember storm]

The idea was delivered to us separately by Savathun pretending to be Eris

[trim grotto]

TTP Eris said she died in the Golden Age because she drowned

[ember storm]

I have been truthed to powered

[dim minnow]

the part about her being Russian might be correct

since there was that one vision Fenchurch saw while on the Moon

[trim grotto]

Either that or he just had a real bad dream

[river scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-best-mates-sami-glitch-sami-destiny2-gif-15811476

[bleak crow]

[ashen comet]

the fuck does this mean

[bleak crow]

I’m stupid

that’s what that means

[ashen comet]

lol

[bleak crow]

fuck Bungo tho

Pretty sure I said this but I have every single black armory gun in my collection book

what even was CoO even about

like what happened in it

[dim minnow]

Osiris sees a future of darkness brought on by the Vex within the Infinite Forest so we have to help him prevent it.

in the end, we defeat the Vex mind that was in charge of the Infinite Forest, Panoptes

[slim girder]

Wonder if savathun will try to infiltrate us again now that she's vowed to destroy us.

And if so who she'd try to replace

Maybe instead of the city she'd target the awoken or something

[frigid sparrow]

"Cayde-6!? Aren't you dead!?"

"oh shit I forgot"

lowkey what if the episodes were just building up to the creation of a super-super-evil-we-hate-the-guardians team like that one courage the cowardly dog episode

[dim minnow]

a legit Sinister Six plot line would be nice

unfortunately it would be difficult to come up with decent members for this group

Fikrul would have been a top-tier choice for this kind of group

but...

reminds me, Destiny kind of had something like this, but it was with the good guys

in the comics, Cayde formed a group to capture the Scorn Barons with

this group consisted of:
Himself
Nadiya (member of the Six Coyotes)
Petra Venj (still don't like her)
Jin (random ramen shop guy)
Hawthorne
and Banshee-44

[frigid sparrow]

it's time

[dim minnow]

I feel like a sinister six plot would work better with a lower scale of enemies

[frigid sparrow]

the idea of skolas and savathun in the same room is incredibly funny to me

[dim minnow]

Skolas and Otzot (and maybe Clovis AI) are fine

maybe the Conductor as well

not sure about Savathun, maybe as the ringleader

Xivu I feel would be better if left out

[frigid sparrow]

actually do savathun and xivu even give a shit about killing each other now

[dim minnow]

if they actually start working together, that would be bad

last I heard, we managed to pit them against one another, but with the Echo of Navigation destroyed they might team up at some point

[frigid sparrow]

like, they both wanted the echo for their own reasons, but they ultimately still cared for their brother

and it's not like savathun could goad us into taking on xivu and by extension help her own goals like in shadowkeep/season of the witch

[little gorge]

i really want to see where savathun goes from here

because surely by now we've exhausted her contingencies

[slim girder]

Savathun always has contingencies

[blazing wasp]

i dont think shes ever exhausted of contingencies, she just makes new ones

the only case of her maybe not having one is if eris during season of the witch snapped and killed the vanguard for power

[strong tendon]

What about savathun, maya, skolas, otzot, yirix and ummmmm idk about a 6th

Clovis is evil sure but wth is he gon do

[slim elk]

Maya gives him a bunch of Vex..

[slim girder]

Maya and Clovis would constantly be scheming against each other if they were at odds.
Probably to the point we'd have to step in to stop one of them nuking a planet or something.

[sleek matrix]

Thats it

Were meant to go into a new saga

[sick yew]

Clovis would beef with literally anyone
Guys too full of himself to have a partner to work with

[slim girder]

Exactly.
Like we'd be running damage control for 2 narcissistic psychos

One thinks he's a god and the other wants a perfect golden age and considers that justification for murder

2 sociopaths is just bad news

[dim minnow]

Doesn't help that Clovis and Maya already hate each other

[merry olive]

that last page in heresy and truth is honestly so damn adorable

[sick yew]

Does Maya hate Clovis? She never really interacted with him no?

Clovis obviously hates her cause bla bla radiolaria in spinal fluid halucinations or whatever that borderline fever trip of a journal was

[jagged badge]

She did

[sick yew]

When

And why doesnt he remember it

[ember storm]

You had no right to install a Pillory inclusion without my express consent.

You think just because I'm not physically standing in front of you, you can ignore me?

The Ishtar Collective will not work with backstabbing egotists. Go [profanity blocked] yourself.```

[sick yew]

Oh right

Wait so Clovis just straight up didnt remember her then huh

Fits him

[jagged badge]

Fuck I was about to post that

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-smiling-cat-grey-cat-cute-cat-gif-2949633679466643461

[paper gorge]

Does anyone know what the thing is , on the other side of the anomaly in vesper's host ?

[slim girder]

No idea. It's more like a big phone for sending messages through and we've only had one message come through which was like a distress signal for a lost ship possibly

[paper gorge]

Alright thanks

[final oak]

so I got a question regarding Praedyth. If the pale heart is supposed to have everything, and Praedyth is still remembered in lore logs then wouldn't Praedyth be in the pale heart? I mean the Aegis is in it, I know that not every guardian would be in the pale heart and Cades only really there because of Crow, I was always hyped for Praedyth having a chance to return, regardless of the lack of impact he could make to the games story.

I'm dumb and not good with the lore and logistics of destiny stuff so pls bear with me lol

[jagged badge]

Cayde was there because of an inadvertent wish Riven granted

Not because the Pale Heart just manifested him from Crow’s memory

[final oak]

So wut happens to exos with the pale heart? Would there bodies be in the pale heart? Since they're made

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[final oak]

like would there be the bodies of dead exos in the pale heart? since an exo body is just a robot body with a human conscious shoved into it, the bodies of exo's would be in the pale heart wouldn't they?

[jagged badge]

If an Exo died there then yeah, their body would be there

[final oak]

naw I mean like would there be an empty clovis bray head in the pale heart?

[jagged badge]

Why?

[final oak]

shrugs* I'm just trying to find an example cause its hard to put into words

I just don't know what constitutes "everything we've seen and haven't seen" being in the pale heart

[ember storm]

it doesnt really do that

not literally everything would be there

[frigid sparrow]

this mostly relates to the idea of the pale heart being "memories." However, it's not just our memories, but memories that the traveler would have. The lost city, obviously, is where the traveler once stood over for years. Io is there since it was one of the most recently terraformed planets by the Traveler. The cosmodrome is where many new lights started their journeys, and the Traveler has essentially internalized that. The dreaming city aesthetics are there moreso because of Crow being the earliest guardian to enter, but is also indicative of the coalescence between light and dark that the Awoken deal with (and it's why you can also attribute the other vanguard leaders as being associated with the other areas, Ikora for Io and Zavala for the lost city and/or cosmodrome). The closest thing we'd have to Clovis in relation to the Traveler would be the warsats

[eager trout]

What did the message say?

[eager trout]

Wait, why Ikora for Io?

[sick yew]

She went there in the Red War

To commune at the last place the Traveler visited before it went to earth

Mostly in the hopes for some kind of grand revelation from the Traveler itself that never came

[trim grotto]

Io was a pilgrimage site, as well.

And Ikora has written multiple books on the Big Orb

[sick yew]

"Yeah so its round, its white arguably and it sits above the last city"

Bestseller

[ashen comet]

its more eggshell colored

[frigid sparrow]

as someone who owns chickens I can say with confidence that those are white

[ashen comet]

#fafaf2

[hollow hinge]

All of them? 🤨

[frigid sparrow]

ok well some of them are a lil different but like generally speaking

[hollow hinge]

Eggs can also be yellow or even brown

[frigid sparrow]

yeah but those aren't traveler colors

[hollow hinge]

Relevance to this?

[frigid sparrow]

because they said the traveler was eggshell colored

and obviously it wouldn't mean like brown or blue eggshells

[ashen comet]

eggshell like the paint color

thats why i said a hexcode

[mellow merlin]

So, I’ve been wondering about this lately. How is Malok pronounced? In D1, variks says it differently compared to how Eris says his name.

[ashen comet]

probably like malok

[jagged badge]

[empty fern]

Mah lock

Or

M uh lock

[ember storm]

https://youtu.be/8zJ5geb3d7w?si=Hf0CzyAu9shngTsB&t=41

she says Muh lock in D1

i am also blissfully unaware of everything that happened this week so

[empty fern]

Same

[mellow merlin]

Thank you, muh lock sounds much better than mal lick

[empty fern]

Maliketh

[ember storm]

who tf says lick

[quiet yacht]

I have a question Who the hell is taox

From what I understand it was the hive sister’s mother ???
But what’s the whole story with her like is she dead???

[ember storm]

no and maybe/maybe not

[quiet yacht]

Huhh

[ember storm]

Taox was like the retainer to the osmium king's three daughters

[quiet yacht]

Ah

I see

[ember storm]

she also staged a coup toward his later years in life since none of the daughters were really fit to lead

[quiet yacht]

Oh

Hmmm so what was the last thing we heard about her

Then

[ember storm]

basically just ran away and hid after a ton of war stuff on fundament

nobody knows what happened to her

[dim minnow]

she escaped from the Hive's conquest over the Ecumene presumably in her ship which had a cryo pod

the Ecumene being a very powerful alien civilization consisting of multiple races

they were one of the Hive's greatest challenges before they encountered us

[ember storm]

there's also some theory that the OXA could be tied to her

but like

eh

[trim grotto]

It's also worth noting that Krill/Proto Hive lived for ten years. Mothers like Taox lived longer, but it's been literally (probably) billions of years since then.

Despite the cryo pod she had at one point, that's a hell of a long time - I wouldn't expect she lives.

[sacred parcel]

How far down do you actually go in GoTD?

[trim grotto]

I don't think there's an answer to this. I'll browse some content when I get home in an hour or so and get back to you, though.

Unless Dova or Waltz beat me to it

[sacred parcel]

Thank you I’ve been trying to solo it and got curious

[dim minnow]

can't find a direct answer

the closest I got is that the area Oryx is in is described as Titan's "seafloor"

[sacred parcel]

Titans a moon

The seafloor would need to be miles down right?

[eager trout]

Why does Drifter tell Eris to go back to yelling at a tree on Io in Prophecy?

[dim minnow]

Prophecy takes place during Season of Arrivals

the main plot of that season involved Eris communing with a Tree of Silver Wings on Io

[trim grotto]

It's hard to say for sure. Titan went through some significant changes in its time, once having "lakes" instead of a surface wide ocean. It rather depends on exactly where the New Pacific Arcology was placed. If it was upon such a lake, the depths might not be as far down as elsewhere.

[sacred parcel]

Is there a solid number on how much running we do in the dungeon then?

[trim grotto]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. As in distance covered, or how far from the Arcology legs we got?

[eager trout]

Why is Titan blue/green?

Isn't it supposed to be red?

[sacred parcel]

Yeah how far abouts is the total traversal

[dim minnow]

why would it be red?

huh, I see

[eager trout]

Nvm, I just remember it being red in pictures

[dim minnow]

it kinda is

[eager trout]

But I looked it up and it looks like in the game

[ember storm]

Methane gas is red according to Google

And liquid is colorless

So bungie probably just didn’t want 2/3 red planets on the map

[hexed nexus]

Fair I guess

[eager trout]

Most images of Titan do look like the one in the game, though

[hazy veldt]

what exactly is happening on this mural

i can see guardians

does this thing have any implications or just fancy art

[sick yew]

Well you can read a lot into it if you want

The guardians being dipicted as evil is obvious considering the dark age being their only realy exposure to lightbearers for a long ass time

[hazy veldt]

there are lore entries about those murals

[sick yew]

Hell Nimbus even calls us Warlords when we arrive in the LF campaign

The two larger fellas pushing the pillar id say are supposed to be the cloudstriders and expressing their might and contribution to Neomuna

The center circle also imo resembles the "eye" of the veil a bit

[hazy veldt]

guardians are depicted like they are both dead and alive

just noticed

they are half skeletons

[sick yew]

Yep

We are by definition undead after all

[slim girder]

Nimbus called us lightbearers. Jisu calerondo was the one who talked about the old title of warlords.

[sick yew]

Are you sure?

Im fairley certain he said Warlords in the opening mission

ik Jisu said it too but ill allow it cause hes the biggest baller on all of Neomuna

[slim girder]

Yes. At the very start of LF.
Rohan : You there on road, identify yourself.
Ghost: We're guardians from earth.
Nimbus: Lightbearers?

[sick yew]

ooooh

Wait I found my mistake

I just looked up an old clip of mine

Nimbus calls us Terrans and for some reason I always thought he said Tyrants

[slim girder]

I like the term Terrans.

Or Terran toys lol

[sick yew]

I had to look it up and apparently its a term from (usually science-)fiction for people living on earth

[slim girder]

Yeah. When earth isn't the only place to live in the universe people in media often start calling themselves terms related to the planet.
Like someone from say nessus would probably be nessian

Or mars would be martian

Europan

Neptunian

[sick yew]

mhm

Someone remind me rq, who else does Osiris' VA voice thats known

[jagged badge]

Not voice but he’s in The Mummy

Afaik that’s a fairly well known and beloved film

[sick yew]

The 1999 one?

[jagged badge]

Or maybe I only see niche circles of the internet 😭

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[sick yew]

Pretty sure its a classic yeah

But idk I swear Osiris' voice always sounds so familiar

[sick yew]

Come to think of it

Imagine if Osiris was actually Oden Fehr and bro died on the set of the Mummy in egypt

And thats why, after his resurrection he started all this egyptian themed shit

[jagged badge]

He voices Ra’s al Ghul in Young Justice

[lofty badge]

think the remaining shadow legion still óperating out of Typhon Imperator are remaining cabal loyalists who don't awnser to Yirx?

[ember storm]

Dr. Fate in justice league

[slim girder]

Bruh

[jagged badge]

Hm?

[slim girder]

Dude put a steam gift card link in here

[jagged badge]

Ohh

I always miss those lmao

[slim girder]

Just curious has there been any lore on the wildlife of destiny? I imagine the collapse was like the end of the dinosaurs for some species but I wonder if any smaller critters survived.

We certainly have a lot of cats and birds around

There was also Luna the dog.

[dim minnow]

we know that there are still wolves and I think bears

chickens as well

probably pigs as well

and there's a group of Warlocks dedicated to preserving various Australian wildlife

[slim girder]

That's prolly my favourite little piece of lore.

Knowing Australia has guardians.

[empty fern]

So we got shadow legion
Maybe maya vex
Fiktuls vampires
And dire taken
Wonder what’s next

[hollow hinge]

I don't see Bungie pulling a 180 on what they're doing with the taken so they won't be showing up as much in Frontiers I reckon

Fikrul is dead dead but Skolas lives kinda but the Scorn are in a weird spot thematically

That kinda just leaves the angery Hive sisters and then Maya's Vex

Oh and Shadow legion have no reason to be a threat anytime soon, seeing that we killed their only reason for existing

[frigid sparrow]

Yirix and Otzot:

[hollow hinge]

Fucking yawn

[frigid sparrow]

The shadow legion remained a consistent threat through episodes echoes and revenant, they're not out of the picture yet

And the psion storyline has room to grow in frontiers, depending on how things fare

[shrewd ravine]

Would everyone have just pretty much lost had we taken the offer of becoming a disciple of the witness

[hollow hinge]

I think as a Disciple we would've been expected to accept the final shape in its entirety

[slow berry]

Fikrul is dead, it's Skolas that is set up

[frigid sparrow]

Less so "set up" and moreso "he's here to justify further scorn usage"

It's unclear how much sentience and intelligence he has but the scorn are pretty much gonna follow him as a leader

[dim minnow]

just you wait, Yirix is going to claim Nezarec's pyramid

[hollow hinge]

The destroyed one?

[jagged badge]

It’s not destroyed

It’s just dormant under Luna’s surface

[dim minnow]

the one in Savathun's Throne World is Rhulk's

[jagged badge]

Oh wait

[frigid sparrow]

You'd think with the cabals history with the dreadnaught and the echo being in there, yirix would wanna go there and check out what's going on with shadow legion

[jagged badge]

I’m assuming they mean the Witness’ Pyramid

In Root of Nightmares

[dim minnow]

ah, the Essence

isn't the Lunar Pyramid called Admittance?

[hollow hinge]

Well maybe the original Nez but the Nezerec we know is the RoN pyramid

[dim minnow]

still the same Nez

anyways, Essence is specifically the Witness' Pyramid

the Lunar one is where Nezarec's body was after Savathun killed him

[hollow hinge]

I just mean the different bodies

[dim minnow]

the head is the same actually

[slow berry]

I wonder if, since we're going into the Nine stuff, and Skolas is back, they're going to try and pull back to the Nine breaking Skolas out

They've never gone more in-depth into that right?

[dim minnow]

I'm not joking, that was literally a prank that went too far

[frigid sparrow]

Damn this is actually a really neat idea that will probably not get explored

[dim minnow]

the Nine just wanted to watch us do things, but they didn't anticipate the damage Skolas would cause

[slow berry]

lol lmao

Skolas is still one of my favourite villains simply because him going into the Vault of Glass to pull Vex tech out and his plan in general is so cool tbh

[ember storm]

it was just to try and get mara closer to us right?

since the awoken would need our help following the og reef war

[dim minnow]

specifically, the Nine and Mara wanted to watch us work

[ember storm]

yeah but she wasnt in on the plan

skolas and the wolves very much murdered a bunch of her people

[dim minnow]

I think she might have been in on it actually

[frigid sparrow]

We love scavengers messing with means beyond their reasoning to get a leveled and/or upper playing field

[slow berry]

I'd actually kill to see Skornlas use the last bit of consciousness inside to try the Vextech shit again but instead he pulls Past Skolas

Like imagine how banger it'd be if it was a time loop type shit and Skolas knew from Skornlas that the only way he survives is to let himself be captured and executed so that he'd be revived as a Scorn and then rescue himself in the past

[ember storm]

"this will definitely work the second time"

this is his internal dialogue

in reality he's just verbalizing the classic fallen kell scream voice line that's never changed once

[frigid sparrow]

More willing to try again than the vex

[ember storm]

its the same sound that taniks made when he wakes up in DSC

[frigid sparrow]

Skolas goes and pulls an alternate taniks

[slow berry]

also because Skolas is pulling past House of Wolves en masse you get to still fight Fallen which are the most fun enemy type in the game still

[ember storm]

but they'd just be dusk models still

bungie literally made up a fallen house on the spot during Dawn just to explain why there was dusk fallen in dark age mercury fighting saint

they can do it again

[frigid sparrow]

Can Bungie just retire house dusk already

They have done literally nothing for themselves in the history of ever

Every fallen recognized that they are auraless losers and fucked off to make their own syndicates and houses

[slow berry]

And also you get to have like this ongoing narrative of like, the Eliksni actually finally finding peace but Past Eliksni having no context for this whatsoever so they get pulled and they go "what the FUCK do you MEAN they're LIVING WITH THEM" as this allegory for the importance of knowing your history ironically through the lens of those who are yet to experience their future

Like imagine Warmonger Misraaks gets pulled to the present and he encounters present Kell of Kells Misraaks and they're both rabidly ashamed of what they were and will become respectively

That'd go hard as fuck I think

[ember storm]

dusk are just the independent voters of eliksni

[slow berry]

Basically I want Skolas with Vextech for like, reusable content so bungie should do it I think

[ember storm]

perhaps that becomes

the plot of the next Maya season

[slow berry]

It's like already like vaguely related to the Nine and the Vex which seems to be whats next and also it lets you reuse random fallen assets from 2019

[frigid sparrow]

Next Maya plot would probably include Otzot due to what happened in final shape ghost missions

[slow berry]

The idea of Maya and Skolas working together bc she can't mindcontrol him (no mind) is pretty funny I think

But yeah its probably Psions

[shrewd ravine]

I’m in the mood for more hive

[frigid sparrow]

I could do for some more quria

[eager trout]

Who's Otzot?

[frigid sparrow]

And what's OXA?

(Otzot was a "freeborn psion" who had lots of power as a psion in the cabal empire but helped instigate the midnight coup since Calus wanted to give the psions more freedom, thus diminishing Otzot's personal power, she's presumably leading a portion of the shadow legion since Kargen returned under her orders as a clone in Insight Terminus FS edition)

(Since she's never made an actual appearance in-game and is in a minimal amount of background lore it's safer to presume she doesn't care much about the whole being freeborn thing at present since she just got power in the cabal empire by virtue of not being fucking dead)

[eager trout]

Ah, that one

[jagged badge]

Those are questions for another day I suppose

But for now

Well done

[next bobcat]

So about mysterious psions

What’s the deal with that other one

I forget the name

[sick yew]

The one spreading Witness popaganda in Vox Obscura?

[next bobcat]

Oh that’s another one

I was thinking of the one starting with Y

[sick yew]

uuuh

[next bobcat]

Like Yurix or something

[sick yew]

Yirix?

[next bobcat]

That’s the one

[sick yew]

Isnt that the one who planned the assassination of Zavala back in Chosen?

[next bobcat]

I don’t think so, it’s the one who the bosses in encore are pledged to I think

[sick yew]

I mean its not unlikely that Yirix also joined the gang of Witness allied Psions after chosen

They obviously dont stand with Caiatl

Yeah looking through Ishtar rn, Yirix was one of the main conspirators trying to kill Zavala during Chosen

[next bobcat]

I see

[next bobcat]

Every time someone brings up chosen I can’t help but think of the one fucking guardian meme

[sick yew]

It seems Yirix was also part of Calus' gang on the Glykon

And former Red Legion aswell

[next bobcat]

So Yirix got around

[sick yew]

Appears so

[next bobcat]

Essentially trying to cling to the strongest cabal power, except for caiatl

[sick yew]

Tho I have to ask where have you heard the name in regards to Encore?

[next bobcat]

The omen and tormentor bosses

[sick yew]

Ishtar only lists three entries containing "Yirix" two from chosen and one from early WQ era

[next bobcat]

Their names are “X, pledged to Yirix” or something like that

[sick yew]

Ah

Then yeah id say its safe to assume theyre part of the Psion collective that command part of the remaining Witness forces

[next bobcat]

Same tormentor in this clip I made (volume warning)

[sick yew]

Based meme

Roundabout my beloved

[green cobalt]

are savathûn and xivu stupid? why hang onto this oryx copy and then get mad that it's dead when the real oryx has BEEN dead for a long while now

[trim grotto]

Despite what the Hive Gods wish to believe, they're still emotional and grieving over their dead brother. Seeing a metaphorical ghost of him who could talk back would be a bit... jarring.

[green cobalt]

that's the real Heresy mic drop

[slim girder]

Memory or no it is still their brother. Imagine you had a long lost relative appear as a spirit, and you're able to talk to them only for some other force to lock them away and then destroy them.

[green cobalt]

it's not him though

[slim girder]

Yes but again it still is a version of him. And we even saw it still has plenty of power like being able to conjure shades of oryx and all of that.

It wanted to go back to fundament

[trim grotto]

Mm. True, but it does have many of his memories. At what point is it to be distinguished from an Exo, for example?

[green cobalt]

true...

[slim girder]

If savathun or xivu had gotten to him, it's possible oryx could have essentially gotten a rebirth from a younger age if that makes sense. Obviously he wouldn't have a body but he'd still be there and could very well retake his place as taken king.

[green cobalt]

Crow also has Uldren's memories though i guess his life as Crow before getting Uldren's memories back does define him more as his own person than just Uldren Two, unlike with the echo of Navigation

[trim grotto]

Yeppers
Destiny likes to have a mixture of Nature vs Nurture, it's never just one

[slim girder]

Ikora has said that to be reborn completely blank would be to be born without any sort of bias or anything like that which makes us who we are as people.
Small habits can definitely still stick around like crow holds his breath before taking a sniper shot just like uldren even though that technically shouldn't be possible

Caydes gambling is another example even though the argument can be made that all hunters like gambling

[green cobalt]

is that not just technique?

[trim grotto]

Probably not the best example to use, though Retro is right. A better example case would be of Savin-Who-Was-Chao-Mu. One moment.

[green cobalt]

yeah sounds like "he's right handed like uldren" ok but many other people are right handed

[slim girder]

No as mael said it's more nuture vs nature.
It's just instinct or something you do without noticing sometimes

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/savin

"You do not remember your wives?"

He did not.

"You do not remember your child, who is now a hundred and ten?"

He did not.

"You do not remember your passion, which was the insulation of minutely sensitive detectors from all but the most specific and subtle radiations?"

He did not, except that he said he could touch magnetic fields and loved to tweak the miniscule weave of the circuits in his robe. He had a zoogoer's enthusiasm for particle physics.```

People are different - but there are kernels of similarity.

Little core parts of a person. Things that carry over from Exo reset to reset, or from mortal to Lightbearer.

[green cobalt]

can that not be attributed to it technically being the same brain & body? like maybe your subconscious just does the same stuff because your body hasn't changed and so why would its habits

[trim grotto]

Well, for a Lightbearer, sure. Not for an Exo, though.

[green cobalt]

i'm not sure i'd say that subconscious stuff is tied to memory

true

[slim girder]

@green cobalt Here's an example.
Imagine in your life you absolutely loved mechanics of machinery and in your spare time you loved tinkering with all sorts of things.
Now lets say you are brought back as a guardian and although you have no memory, you still feel some unknown enthusiasm for mechanics, even though again you don't have any memory of it.

[ember storm]

Witness

[little gorge]

are you sure about that?

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-the-final-shape-the-witness-darkness-pale-heart-gif-5868788825429096951

[eager trout]

Any personality related to genetics would remain

Likely

[torpid flint]

Wouldn't personality traits gained from a person's environment still remain? It did say merge their collective consciences

Which would include experiences and memories

[ember storm]

I mean there’s parts molded by genetics and parts molded by experience

Crow is essentially just what Uldren would be without years of psychological stress and mental breaks

[bleak crow]

is Savathûn just gone now?

[next bobcat]

No

She’s absolutely pissed at us for killing her brother

But she ain’t gone

[bleak crow]

but wasn’t he already dead?

or did we just finish him off for good

[trim grotto]

Despite what the Hive Gods wish to believe, they're still emotional and grieving over their dead brother. Seeing a metaphorical ghost of him who could talk back would be a bit... jarring. If a being is created purely from the memories of a person, at what point is it different from that person?

In effect, Oryx was revived, albeit with different power and fewer memories.

And now his sisters got to see him die again.

[bleak crow]

So is she gunna kill us or does she just want us to fuck off

[next bobcat]

That raises an interesting point

Could savathun destroy us with her full power?

Or would we beat her?

[quasi iron]

nah. id win

[trim grotto]

Kind of both

[trim grotto]

Define "us"

[blazing wasp]

Regular ol 1v1? We've already won against that before, but no way in hell she'll just engage in a regular 1v1

[next bobcat]

Her whole force and army against the vanguard

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't say it was impossible but we can't say for sure. Look at what Xivu Arath had to orchestrate to make her plan work, though.

Besides, Savvy isn't one for open field war.

[slim girder]

The only time savathun has done anything on that scale was just plotting a "trigger" for xivu to invade torobatl

[bleak crow]

nah b im watching

I never thought I’d ask this

But exactly how strong is Savathûn

[hollow hinge]

weaker than us lol

[blazing wasp]

Savathun isn't dangerous for her strength

[trim grotto]

She's quite powerful for a Lightbearer, despite her new status as one. However, we only really fought her within her Throne World. She may have been stronger there, or maybe she's stronger now that she's had time to master her new power.

Hard to say for sure.

[hollow hinge]

Will she pose a threat? sure
Will we absolutely roll her? yes lol

[trim grotto]

Saint-14 did kill her repeatedly that one time.

[bleak crow]

PLOT ARMOR 🔥🗣️🔥🗣️🔥

[hollow hinge]

exactly, he was playing with his food.
I'm not denying that she'll be able to scheme something up and "threaten" us
But considering our current power status, I am not the least bit worried about her

If the sisters settle their differences and unite against us then maybe we'll have an interesting narrative

[trim grotto]

Thing is, Savvy isn't one for direct confrontation.

[slim girder]

She'll always try to do something to weaken us or even make us destroy ourselves like how she tricked Lakshmi into opening a vex gate inside the city.

We wouldn't see something like a huge hive fleet descend on earth like the red legion did.

[ember storm]

she ran away like a coward during our rematch in the FS post campaign

I can solo her

[green cobalt]

we've stomped her once before idk how she thinks she's any threat to us by now

[dim minnow]

Admittedly, in order to beat her in WQ, we had to mentally stagger her by revealing the truth behind the syzygy

Though it was enough for her to reconsider opposing us when we stood against her in Witch

[toxic ridge]

I mean doesn't the young wolf have complete mastery over light and dark at this point in the story with the introduction of prismatic

I don't think there's really anything savathun could do to us directly

[slim girder]

It's not really about her doing something to us directly but more her finding something that poses a threat to us. Like imagine if she and her lucent brood managed to get a hold of stasis or strand

[frigid sparrow]

"finally, a new challenge!" And the guardians steamroll her anyways for a 1/5 roll

[green cobalt]

why don't hive lightbearers squish OUR ghosts, are they stupid?

[slim girder]

Permadeath mode in destiny would suck lol

[toxic ridge]

yeah fair enough

[green cobalt]

would people want a permadeath option when making their character?

[toxic ridge]

I think it'd be interesting for challenge runs

[slim girder]

I'm sure some people out there might like the idea but I want to say it's a small majority

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't say complete. Even Savathûn herself has mastered techniques that only Osiris has accomplished.

There's always more to learn.

[toxic ridge]

ok true not complete but we do have mastery over light and dark that exceeds that of most guardians

[low gyro]

Who's to say that's not what's happening during wipe screens haha

[next bobcat]

That is extremely plausible, and gives some lore explanation to wipes

Ghost does sometimes say “I can’t revive you here”

[sick yew]

I mean "your light fades" mostly relates to how dying in a darkness zone severs you from the connection of the light

Less so about your ghost being destroyed in the moments after more so that they just couldnt revive you if they wanted to

[next bobcat]

It could change depending on the situation probably

[sick yew]

Absolutely but thats where the disconnect between gameplay and lore is

[next bobcat]

Like the witness final shape, that’s actually the final shape that we die to

So we load our previous save and redo it, but that’s not lore accurate

[sick yew]

Obviously, a wipe would be true death canonically speaking

But that aint how we do shit cause we're the protagonist™️

[next bobcat]

But if lore and gameplay were equal, that’s…. Well… essentially just dungeons and dragons

But even that has restrictions, the more complicated a game gets the more difficult it is to tie it perfectly into lore

[sick yew]

I mean even darkness zones are rather rare in universe

I think the one of the only concrete mentions we had of them was somewhere on Mars?

Don't recall which loretab that was tho, could be d1 stuff

[next bobcat]

Ok so is a darkness zone different to the end of a strike or something?

Because then lorewise nearly everything has darkness zones

[sick yew]

Gameplay wise there's tons of them
Lore wise barely any

[next bobcat]

Another discrepancy that we would probably be better off overlooking

[sick yew]

Mhm

[next bobcat]

Sometimes you just gotta take it how it is

[sick yew]

Just gotta remember it is still a video game after all so liberties have to be taken

[next bobcat]

Damn oryx taking those liberties

[orchid flame]

what was the downside to crow's wish of going thru the portal

[ember storm]

Only one person would be able to go

Without the psychic connection that Mara had to Crow we wouldn’t have a safe means of following him through

[frigid sparrow]

there wasn't really a traditional monkey's paw-esque/asshole genie downside to this wish, since it was moreso a transactional deal, instead of feeding off being an asshole, riven would give us this wish in exchange for the collection and safekeeping of her eggs

[ember storm]

That was the caveat

Only one person to go

The wish was crafted by Savathun

[green cobalt]

Was that really a caveat or was it "crow goes first to make way for us and so we know it works thanks to his connection with Mara" ?

[ember storm]

It was indeed a bad thing we were not told about

Riven just decided not to tell us about it until like one week before the end of the season

[green cobalt]

Sounds pretty stupid of Savathun to try to help but also only send one person, then again I don't recall most parts of s23

[hollow hinge]

Savathun didn't help us

[ember storm]

Well it was designed with her in mind, so

[hollow hinge]

Our Guardian spotted it on her wings

[green cobalt]

Oh right

[ember storm]

If things really went her way she’d have the traveler kept safely in her throne world

[hollow hinge]

Savathun had no intention of sharing that wish with us

[ember storm]

Forged the connection between it and the veil herself

And used the pale heart to her own ends forever

Why do you think lucent hive are staging 24/7 sieges to this day

[green cobalt]

But still that's how the wish was designed, not an Ahamkara twist

[ember storm]

Yeah because it’s a wish wall wish

It wasn’t a choice made by riven

But it’s still a caveat

No wish can ever go on completely without a hitch

[green cobalt]

[ember storm]

There’s a give and take

that’s where ahamkara get their sustenance

[green cobalt]

Does riven power the wall or can we just not care

[ember storm]

They can’t be completely altruistic forever

[ember storm]

It’s literally just like

A message board

[green cobalt]

????

[ember storm]

That sends riven the specific idea and concept behind the wish rather than spoken or written words

So she can’t twist them on their own

[hollow hinge]

And in Wish an Ouija board

[green cobalt]

Aha

[ember storm]

No

That’s literally the plot of Wish

She just didn’t until all her eggs were safe

She was only indebted because she willingly made a deal

[green cobalt]

Oh i edited when I meant to cancel

[green cobalt]

Man I'm washed

[ember storm]

But are you bathed

Stay hydrated folks

Maintain personal hygiene and a healthy lifestyle

[wheat flower]

Telling that to d2 players

Ignore this man maximize the grind

Who needs to shower when you have raids to do guardians

[tough badge]

The stink repels the enemies away

[wheat flower]

You can shower when you've fully crafted all of GoS'd guns

[tough badge]

[wheat flower]

I didn't realise this was lore discussions

Goodbye

[lavish sphinx]

can someone explain to me what happens right at the end of vance:passeri?

[hearty coral]

Has there ever been an in-game explanation for raids and dungeons being repeatable? My headcanon breaks all runs into four groups

Pre-canon: every attempt preceding the first successful run. Defined to be either recon or battle sims based on recon.

Canon: ‘World’s First’ winners. The people who actually completed the run first during the contest mode. Defined to be the ‘canon’ that drives the story forward.

Post-canon: every completion that happens after the contest has concluded. Defined as war games and battle simulations that are based on the ‘canon’ runs to train guardians (similar premise to crucible)

Flawless: same as ‘post-canon’ but for a similar premise as crucible’s Iron Banner, Trials, and competitive.

This helps me understand why the loot from the raids and dungeons are farmable. The ‘canon’ and ‘pre-canon’ runs collected the original weapons and armor, the Vanguard and Owl Sector study the loot and determine whether they are safe for Guardians to use and carry, and the forges make modified variants of the loot to be distributed to ‘post-canon’ guardians for their simulated runs.

Naturally, this doesn’t apply to certain raids and dungeons that already have reasons to be farmable.
• The core Leviathan raid (basically Cabal ‘Wipeout’ for Calus to watch)
• Last Wish raid and Shattered Throne (Riven’s Timeloop shenanigans)
• Prophecy (The Nine are cryptic as Hell)

Am I insane, or does this make any sense? Is there an actual explanation in game and I just missed it?

[dim minnow]

Leviathan is the only known raid that was canonically repeatable

[thorny scarab]

LORE PEOPLE

IT IS I

THE GUY WITH ENDLESS DUMBASS QUESTIONS

How y’all doing

[jagged badge]

Ruh roh

[thorny scarab]

What in the heck does this gibberish mean

[dim minnow]

the way this is written makes it sound like an Eliksni with poor english wrote it

world-throne refers to Throne Worlds

scream-sea refers to the Sea of Screams which is just another term for Ascendant Plane

[thorny scarab]

Was gonna say, did the last city’s Shakespeare decide to work again?

So, what I’m taking from it is that hive gods were/are able to use the ascendant plane

But I feel like I already knew that

[thorny scarab]

Also BTW hello again Dovadah, it’s so nice to see you again

[heady monolith]

im pretty sure, how it goes, is that your first clear is the canon clear for your guardian, except in the case of salvations edge, it was the worlds first team who did it

[ember storm]

first and usually only clear for every raid is done by the guardian and a full fireteam of unspecified peeps

theres only a couple exceptions with vog being repeatable forever (multiple others have done it to get their own mythoclast)

[thorny scarab]

OMG

I JUST REALIZED

THE VS IN ALL THE VESPERS HOST WEAPONS AND JUNK STANDS FOR VESPER STATION, NOT VERSUS

I think

Maybe it is Versus

And I’m an idiot still

[dim minnow]

I think the former is more likely

[slow berry]

Wait, how does this work?

During House of Wolves, isn't the Vault of Glass empty and Skolas raids it for technology?

[ember storm]

Everything that has and hasn’t happened is always happening in the vault at the same time

All the taken and wolves did was slip in during the moments things weren’t happening

For example, Praedyth is simultaneously alive and able to interact with us on comms, only for us to find his incredibly ancient bleached skeleton buried under rubble moments later

He’s also still attempting to escape to this day

you can jump in and leave the vault at any time if you’re quick about it, which our raid team and subsequent successful teams were thanks to the power of the aegis

[slow berry]

Thanks, I understand now

[next bobcat]

Why don’t praedyth just get the aegis then

And skedaddle

[fluid peak]

is he stupid?

[next bobcat]

Idk man

Idk

[orchid flame]

Ahh, thank you

same for you waltz i forgot it was limited to just him

[ember storm]

It never existed in any of the rooms he was in

We never take it to any of the rooms he’s in

[slow berry]

why doesnt he just return to orbit is he stupid

[ember storm]

ceiling

[green cobalt]

Why doesn't he just lfg and get carried if he can't orbit, is he stupid?

[frigid sparrow]

Blueberries keep joining ftf

[green cobalt]

a fate worse than being stuck in the vault of glass forever

[ember storm]

oh to be one of three possible unnamed guardians erased from history in the kabr fireteam

[blazing wasp]

Actually they went down there as a squad of nine

[sick yew]

Got picked off one by one

Huh, ai generated slop

[dim minnow]

That thumbnail isn't even related

[brisk niche]

Actually I just pulled a random photo from shutterstock

Just trying to get 10 signatures no biggie

[ember storm]

what's that going to do

[sick yew]

Dont matter

Lets get back to funny lore references

[ember storm]

you smell like a doghive

[sick yew]

[dim minnow]

If you're gonna use ai slop for a thumbnail, at least generate one that actually looks like the subject of the article

[calm granite]

let's move on chat

action was taken because it's off subject. discussing the off subjet is also off subject

also we did the whole thing already years ago atp

[jagged badge]

Let’s change topics to important lore like the fact Drifter once said “big daddy Calus”

[dim minnow]

Or that crawdaddy is canon

[sick yew]

When the fuck

[dim minnow]

Nothing new, Immaru called himself "daddy Immaru" once

[sick yew]

That part I know but Drifter calling Calus that?

[ember storm]

You know Eliksni sympathizers used to be called bug-huggers

[ember storm]

Haunted warlock bond

[slim girder]

Or alternatively you could just put in some effort and get a real thumbnail

[dim minnow]

Which is weird since they are more like crustaceans

[ember storm]

i mean it's a more derogatory term

also i imagine majority of humans don't even know crabs exist

[dim minnow]

Drifter seems to know that they go good with garlic butter

[ember storm]

drifter does, though, since he mentions cooking them up with garlic butter

[dim minnow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1011404565993754628/1343589799541342229/ezgif-455afeb2220542.gif

[ember storm]

Think I could gaslight the city about what crabapples are

[slow berry]

Aren't they supposed to be spiders?

[slim girder]

I would show the city what a pineapple is

[tough badge]

Pineapples r gone?

[slim girder]

Apparently so because ghost finds the name of the fruit strange. Like he doesn't know what it is.

[slow berry]

There's an entire lorebook where Eris is trying to find a pineapple

For pineapple rice(?)

She planted some seeds on Io which is now back so we might finally have Pineapples back

[jagged badge]

Ghost thinks it’s a Golden Age gene-splice thing lmao

[tough badge]

What if I pulled into the last city blasting pineapple pen and made them think that it’s what a pineapple is?

[slow berry]

Specially now that she's begun to trust people (she initially grew to feel fear for the pineapples as she thought they may have been poisoned, in her growing paranoia)

[jagged badge]

Pretty sure pineapples are already back. Fenchurch had some pineapple fried rice

[tough badge]

But like she ded

[jagged badge]

He offered it to Eris and she became distressed by it

[slow berry]

Yeah but its Fenchurch

[tough badge]

Wait let me ask eris

[tough badge]

R u ded or r u hitting the meddy beddy in ur throne world?

[slow berry]

I think they specifically had Fenchurch be the one with the pinapple bc that shit must be exotic

[jagged badge]

Her Throne World protects her from death. Honestly I’m not really clear if she’s like stuck in there for the time being or not

However, she is at least opting to remain in there on the basis of exploring it with Drifter

[jagged badge]

Mfw I decode an engram at Rahool and get the exotic pineapple

[tough badge]

So she created her own throne world and she doesn’t know what’s in it?

I thought it was like the inside of the persons mind

[jagged badge]

She didn’t do it consciously

She didn’t know about it until this episode

[tough badge]

So now eris and drifter will have throne world dates 🙂

[slim girder]

Probably.
But fr though no clue what eris throne world could become other than the big scroll library that it is now

Which does make sense considering eris' love for reading and tea.

[tough badge]

U think we might explore it

Cuz the only other throne world we have “explored” is savathuns right?

[slim girder]

And oryxs

[tough badge]

When was that?

[slim girder]

The taken king.
The dreadnaught IS his throne world

[tough badge]

Oh

Silly me

[slim girder]

As for eris I don't think she's all that interested in making it massive or anything. Honestly she could just use it not only as a safety net but also for all kinds of knowledge and whatever she may need.

Unlike the hive pantheon who make theirs into giant fortresses

[tough badge]

It’s only knowledge she has obtained correct?

Like there wouldn’t be any hidden secrets we didn’t already know about

[slim girder]

No clue. We only just discovered she had one at all and even she is surprised. Who knows what could happen with it tbh.

[tough badge]

This could be interesting

[dim minnow]

The lore tends to compare them to crabs more

Like Drifter's garlic butter comment

Or the Triton Vice lore tab

Or Amanda calling Mithrax crawdaddy

[green cobalt]

drifter calling Eido crabcakes

[crude mulch]

Where is mithrax? He dead now or what?

I was told he wasn't

[broken zephyr]

Cuz he ain’t

[crude mulch]

Lol where'd he go?

[broken zephyr]

Good question
I just know he ain’t dead lol

He got cured by the Echo and shi

[crude mulch]

Ya fs. Copy. Its all good ty!

Oh actually!!! Amazing ty!!!!

😊

[jagged badge]

Nowhere

He’s the Kell of Kells, trying to unite the Eliksni in peace now

[crude mulch]

Awesome ty! Where does all this info come from exactly?

Cus I guess gameplay wise it doesn't say.

[jagged badge]

It did

[crude mulch]

Maybe from a piece of lore in game or something?

[broken zephyr]

Well actually most of what was said did

In Episode: Revenant

[jagged badge]

That was all part of the finale/epilogue of Revenant

[crude mulch]

Sorry i didn't finish u guys didn't see the last part I said

Oh shoot was it actually?

I guess I don't remember my bad well ty guys I seriously appreciate it!

U guys rock

[thorny scarab]

Why would Xivu Arath show up in Sol if she doesn’t have a throne world anymore

Is she stupid?

And going with that point, why haven’t we gone after her yet now that she’s here?

Are we also stupid?

[dim minnow]

Xivu is still very powerful even without her THrone World

direct conflict only makes her stronger as well

[thorny scarab]

Fair

Why don’t we make like
A super gun
So that we don’t waste time battling her, we just shoot her once and it’s over

[dim minnow]

we don't even know what it would take to 1 shot her

[wheat flower]

Isn't xivu the strongest member of the 3?

[thorny scarab]

That’s fair

[thorny scarab]

Why is she the most crybaby then

[dim minnow]

hell, she might not even let herself get in a situation where we can whack her

[dim minnow]

it's a little hard to say which of the thre is the most powerful

[wheat flower]

She's the most battle deranged

[thorny scarab]

I think it’s fair to say Oryx isn’t

[dim minnow]

for a time Oryx was the strongest

until we killed him

[wheat flower]

Well tbf the amount of effort we had to put in to kill oryx was really insane

We pulled every dirty trick in the book

[thorny scarab]

I feel like for the hive gods

Their strength can be highly situational

[wheat flower]

Hit him with some pocket sand

[thorny scarab]

He didn’t have to come fight us

[wheat flower]

He did actually

We literally killed his whole court

We where in his bedroom so to speak

[trim grotto]

Strictly speaking, we dismantled his court because he came to fight us.
The reason he came was twofold. On one hand, we killed his son. On the other, his son was a major source of the Tribute network. Oryx felt that blow.

[thorny scarab]

Ok

[thorny scarab]

Is it fair to say that the downfall of the hive pantheon can be attributed to Crota

And us beating his ass

[wheat flower]

Wasn't there some theory the downfall of the hive pantheon started with the death of one knight?

Or did I dream that up

[trim grotto]

Technically, yes. Somewhere down the chain of events.

[thorny scarab]

Do elaborate O lore master mael

[trim grotto]

I will, but on my lunch break in 40 minutes.

[thorny scarab]

Aight gotcha

[trim grotto]

Speaking of, I have to get back to work

[dim minnow]

don't worry, I got you

ok, so there was a knight of Oryx and a knight of Xivu Arath who both encountered each other in the Ascendant Plane

they refused to let the other pass and got into an argument over which Hive God they worshipped was better

[thorny scarab]

This sounds like a dumb beginning to a dumb story…

[dim minnow]

eventually, the fight got to a point where both knights realized that they couldn't convince the other

[dim minnow]

just wait until you hear about the rabbit embryo (completely unrelated story)

[thorny scarab]

The rabbit embryo that caused the awoken to exist?

[wheat flower]

Once upon a time ahh story

[thorny scarab]

If I remember correctly?

See I retain some stuff y’all lore masters teach me

[dim minnow]

so, both knights killed themselves by jumping into the endless void in the Ascendant Plane

[thorny scarab]

Legit

[dim minnow]

ah so you have heard about it already

[thorny scarab]

…
They couldn’t think of ANY OTHER WAY to figure that situation

[dim minnow]

what do you expect, they're Hive

[thorny scarab]

Hive smart enough to talk, argue, and strong enough to make it to knighthood

Anyways continue

They commit suicide for some stupid reason, continue

[dim minnow]

anyway, so this resulted in a knight of Crota to lose a very crucial fight to another knight of Xivu Arath, causing Crota to lose a lot of territory and tribute to Xivu Arath

[thorny scarab]

…
How did them committing suicide in the ascendant plane cause Crota to lose a battle against another knight of Xivu

[dim minnow]

as a result of this, Crota was forced to retreat to his Throne World to hibernate

[wheat flower]

Have mejik

[thorny scarab]

Could you please use more than two words?

[wheat flower]

I'm not a lore goblin I'm just making fun of hive magic

[thorny scarab]

Ah

[dim minnow]

it left the knight of Crota with just enough missing tribute to lose

[thorny scarab]

That’s dumb, but ok

So Crota loses his dumb battle against his aunt

Goes to hibernate

[dim minnow]

now, because Crota had to hibernate for a long time, we were able to recover and come up with a plan to finally kill him for good

[thorny scarab]

…

[dim minnow]

kinda makes you realize how bad of a deal Sword Logic was

[thorny scarab]

So because two knights couldn’t win an argument with each other, we clapped a hive god, and then another, and then kinda another, and then clapped the second one again but kinda not

[wheat flower]

Ladies and gentleman

[thorny scarab]

Sathona messed up big time

[wheat flower]

The hive

[thorny scarab]

Killing killing, kinda not killing, more killing, killing someone whos already been killed, etc.

Sums it up quite nicely

[wheat flower]

The apex predators of the universe

[thorny scarab]

Whoa whoa
Randal The Vandal exists

[wheat flower]

Randal should've killed cayde

Instead of some loser with a sniper

Most iconic vanguard hunter killed by the one faction that gets continously pub stomped by everyone

[thorny scarab]

Nobody should’ve killed cayde

[thorny scarab]

Technically speaking

His ghost was killed by the scorn

And cayde was killed by the people with a magical wish dragon

[wicked snow]

Who is zhaoulis

[dapper moss]

i believe one of oryx's victims

all of the kings fall weapons are named after those who oryx has killed in his time as taken king

[wicked snow]

Ohhh

That’s cool thanks

[next bobcat]

Like chelchis

Eliksni Kell of stone

[dapper moss]

zaouli is possibly one of the awoken

idk which one which weapon is

only chelchis and merain

[next bobcat]

And qullim

And Yasmin as well

But I think we know who that is

[thorny scarab]

…

Go on

[next bobcat]

Yasmin eld

Awoken paladin

[thorny scarab]

Never heard of her

[next bobcat]

iirc

Obliterated by oryx

[thorny scarab]

Sheesh

That’s gotta suck

[next bobcat]

Yeah

[thorny scarab]

What did Yasmin do to deserve such a personal feeling punishment

[next bobcat]

Not personal

Oryx basically just obliterated the entire fleet

She was just part of it

[thorny scarab]

So why did she get a specific name

Or was important enough to have a gun named for her

[next bobcat]

She was a paladin

Important awoken figure

Idk awoken stuff

[thorny scarab]

Maels on lunch break!

[trim grotto]

The guns aren't exactly about the specific people so much as they are just a way of personifying the victims as examples of Oryx's wars

[thorny scarab]

Aaaaaah

Gotcha

[next bobcat]

Thanks for the wisdom mael

[thorny scarab]

Omniscient Mael to the rescue!

[tropic swift]

can a hunter be a bounty hunter for the vanguard?

[slim girder]

Yes.

Crow did bounty hunting for the cabal as well at one point

Any guardian can really do that but hunters given the adventure they seek would be more pulled towards that sort of thing

[trim grotto]

Sure. Anyone can, really, but yeah. Bounties are a pretty common thing for Guardians.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS2hBTtCDufSSHczGa_PCbAH3rWQvTkuk
Here are some examples from Xander 99-40, a Frame from the old Tower dedicated to Bounties for the Guardians.

As far as I'm aware, Xander 99-40 doesn't reappear, suggesting he was destroyed in the Red War's initial assault of the Tower.

[lusty pewter]

Anyone else saw the new dialogue in the nether? Savathun seems to be convincing xivu to be on her side