📚lore-discussion

[hollow hinge]

Isn't there?

[jagged badge]

Worms facilitate the actual provision of power from Sword Logic. Otherwise it’s just an ideology alone

[ember storm]

our acolyte staff in Witch had a worm embedded in it

[jagged badge]

When Eris was a Hive God, her power was facilitated by Ahsa

And yeah, the worm parts were used in the ritual too

[ember storm]

the power accumulated through our staff was funneled through ahsa to eris

savathun has no worm and her brood does not really tithe at all

they keep their worms satiated through stockpiled light

[jagged badge]

Technically her brood tithes backwards

[hollow hinge]

Her brood still has worms?

I mean the Hive lightbearers specifically

[jagged badge]

They’re not all Lightbearers

The Lightbearers don’t have worms

[ember storm]

theres a distinction between lightbearers and normal lucent hive

[jagged badge]

But their Light sorta flows in a backwards tribute and satiates the worms of those that have them

[ember storm]

also the moths are just like, light constructs ala arc souls

[hollow hinge]

I know, and I meant that

[ember storm]

which dont have to be solely wielded by the creator

[hollow hinge]

Think the moths are how they transfer the light? To the Hive that don't wield the light

[ember storm]

fyi whenever you crit kill any normal hive theres a chance for their worm to pop out

this extends to lucent

[ember storm]

no

they just eat it

[jagged badge]

The moths are unintended side effects iirc

[ember storm]

literally just eat

like you know on a high school field there's like these little water hose pump station things

its like that

[jagged badge]

Aha!

Incredible. The Hives' own bodies transform Light into a parasite! What a wondrous adaptation!```

[ember storm]

succumb to the worm

succum to the worm

[lofty wigeon]

Okay so

Back in the crafting area on Mars there's this shooting range esqe room with this wither looking structure consisting of several dozen hands and 3 large skulls.

Within this structure is also a ghost wreathed in pyramid resonance. What's up with that?

[jagged badge]

Related to Final Shape’s post-campaign

[lofty wigeon]

Interesting

[hollow hinge]

everyone thought it was weird back when they added it as well

[dim minnow]

Specifically it's The Final Shape manifesting outside of the Pale Heart and the Ghost inside is one of the Ghosts we were tasked with rescuing

[hazy veldt]

How exactly do taken

Multiply

I saw numerous times when taken thralls just spawn clone of themselves

[jagged badge]

It’s Psions that do that

[lofty wigeon]

Very interesting

[jagged badge]

You have been taken.

Be still. Your endless vigilance is done. Nothing will enslave you ever again.

What hidden plan do you obey? What is your secret principle?

Your mind is a weapon. The world breaks when you think. Secrets peel apart for you — like fruit. But you are a rare thing. There are so few of you. Your frailty betrays you.

You must be manifold.

There is a knife for you. It is shaped like [division].

Take up the knife. Cut yourself apart. Take your new shape.```

Basically, becoming Taken addresses their weaknesses

[hazy veldt]

What’s the lore behind skimmers if there is one

I mean surely bungie would not add a new transport with no lore elaboration

[dim minnow]

the first skimmers we got (Allstar Vector) was a gift from the Concordat (presumably from Lysander himself)

[eager trout]

Who is the Explicator?

[dim minnow]

just some random Shadow Legion mf who was cataloging planets the Witness had in its possession

it seems like he was specifically looking for worlds that once belonged to the Cabal Empire

[eager trout]

Isn't the Shadow Legion kinda brainless tho?

[dim minnow]

not really, a lot of them are mindless clones, but there are plenty who aren't

[arctic iron]

explicator was almost a psion flayer

😔

[hollow hinge]

Just thought of this..
During the Red War why couldn't the ghosts res their guardians after the light returned?

Or was that something that happened and I missed it?

[sick yew]

During the time the traveler cage was active your connection to the light was severed

Any death during that period was final

[hollow hinge]

Why?

[sick yew]

Because

Thats just how it works

Idfk

[hollow hinge]

Once the light returned I see no canonical reason for the ghosts to be unable to res

[sick yew]

I believe its the same case with the little Ghost cage's the Psions developed during Chosen

Had Zavala been killed while Targe was disabled he would have been dead dead

[hollow hinge]

That's so silly

[sick yew]

I mean its the same thing with Darkness zones

Cant get resurrected in those either

It appears that there needs to be a "stable" connection between Ghost and the Travelers light at the point of death for a resurrection to be possible otherwise the death is final

[umbral lotus]

praying that we see that model one day in a dungeon or something at least

[trim grotto]

Alex is right regardless. The bond can be remade, but only if two halves stand.

Elsewise the Ghost traps would be pointless - and frankly, the story of the Red War would have lost a lot of its weight.

[sick yew]

Yeah the whole thing was obviously to make the gut punch of Red War's initial loss hit all the harder

[slow berry]

Wait, hold on

[hollow hinge]

On that note then.. has a ghost ever severed their connection?

[trim grotto]

Not explicitly, but it's possible that Strain or Vincent did.

[slow berry]

Theres that lore entry about the ghost waiting the entire war to rez their guardian, feeling the light come back, and being shot moments before being able to

[hollow hinge]

Ghosts of?

[trim grotto]

Ghosts of the Ghost Hunter and Dredgen Yor, respectively

[hollow hinge]

We also know of Fynch but he just refuses to resurrect his buddy

[trim grotto]

True! It is the sole argument against the topic, but isn't a strong one, on account of it not actually happening.

There is far greater evidence outweighing it.

[hollow hinge]

Did their guardian die before or after losing the light?

[trim grotto]

Given that this took place within the Last City, it'd be after.

[sick yew]

I know this isnt what youre referencing but what you said reminds me a bit of that Guardian who got stuck on the almighty in some kind of time slow trap

I know the ghost isnt sure whether that trap is vex or cabal origin I do personally lean more towards Vex and gotta say intentional or not that might be one of the most effective ways to get rid of a guardian

[trim grotto]

I am all for writing that elaborates on the vulnerability of Guardians.

Gives pretty much all stories more oomph when they're in a tough spot.

[sick yew]

Its just so idk smart? Like duh why kill the undead supersoldier when you can just put them into a field that slows them down so far they wont escape for thousands of years or more

Pack em up and put em into storage somewhere

[sick yew]

Shoutouts to good ol Taeko-3

[slow berry]

There'd also the guardians that died during a Trials match right when the light disappeared and the lore entry explicitly mentions the ghosts dying as well, which to me implies the ghosts could have revived them if they stuck around

Could have been a change at some point though

[sick yew]

Wasnt that entry more so to show that the Lighthouses on Mercury reacted to guardian final deaths?

[trim grotto]

Different writers may have had different ideas, but the modern writing very clearly suggests death while the bond is severed is permanent death.

[sick yew]

We still dont really know what exactly the Traveler cage was made out of right?

[trim grotto]

The implication is that it was from information the Skyburners stole from the Dreadnaught.

So it's vaguely Hive related.

[blazing wasp]

skyburners oath lore, wasnt it?

[trim grotto]

Now this is the end, brothers, our final fight. Ghaul's here to finish it. Mars taught us how to fight Guardians. The Hive taught us how to eat their Light. Remember that we made it possible. The Red Legion ends it. But we held the line, and we didn't die. That's victory. It says so on the gun.

Skyburner (who were on Dreadnaught) + Hive eat Light = Traveler Cage

[sick yew]

mhm always assumed as much

Cause it did act rather similar to Thorn

Whole severing the bond between ghost and guardian shit

[sick yew]

Any other cool examples btw?

[trim grotto]

Chaperone - a simple one, but a reminder that even lowly Fallen can be our doom.

[sick yew]

Amanda isnt actually Amanda?

Nora Jericho huh

Why did she change her name?

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

[trim grotto]

Nora was her mum Alex

[sick yew]

Oh

Wait yeah that makes sense

Forgot the flavor text

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/dawning-before-the-dawning
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-beaten-path

[sick yew]

Also whoever this unnamed guardian is man might be the biggest baller of the dark age

or city age rather

Ghost dead, probably wounded, hands over his strongest shotgun to a kid who helped him and just keeps fucking going like its nothing

They just dont res em like this anymore yk?

[hazy veldt]

Couldn’t be osiris

[sick yew]

Nope

Man got his ass corrupted instantly

Couldnt even shake off lowly Savathun

Weak aura fr

[jagged badge]

[sick yew]

Got anything to argue here Tempest?

I mean think about it, Osiris was clearly using exploits

Hotswapping supers and infinite orb generation to cast them over and over

He got what he deserved

[blazing wasp]

He's just better at build crafting

You're just bad at the game

Had someone call me a hacker cause I used sunbracers

[sick yew]

I didnt get corrupted by Savathun for a whole ass year

Just sayin

[blazing wasp]

No you're not

[hazy veldt]

just realised osiris can now die of old age

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-interview-thinking-gif-15889826

[sick yew]

He can except seemingly no one ever does

[hazy veldt]

zavala certainly will

[sick yew]

He's even less likely

Cause Awoken

[hazy veldt]

theres already a record of his knees aching

after a long day

bro is getting old

[sick yew]

One day Osiris will slip and fall down the stairs and that'll that

Praying on that loretab cause I'd be really funny

[sick yew]

Holy pink floyd mentioned

[slim girder]

Feel like saint will always be watching him if he starts to show any real signs of getting old. Like not being able to walk right and stuff.

[sick yew]

True

[ember storm]

Throw him into bray Exoscience

[jagged badge]

Osiris is supposed to be sorta 60-70s type age

[ember storm]

I don’t think it’s ever been referenced anywhere but

Did Osiris very early on learn about ancient Egypt and the actual Osiris

And then 100% genuinely decided “yes this is appropriate for me”

[sick yew]

Or Sagira did

[slim girder]

Osiris can speak Egyptian. Back in CoO he swore in Egyptian.
Kinda wish they'd kept that sort of thing because I liked that as part of Osiris background.

[ember storm]

iirc it was Hebrew because they just told Oded to swear in something foreign

[slim girder]

Could have been. The subtitles did say "Swears in Egyptian" though so I like to think Osiris is our only known record of an Egyptian guardian.
Which I think is cool considering there are also guardians in Australia.

[dapper moss]

what ethnicity is zavala again

[slim girder]

Awoken. There is no record of who he was before becoming awoken iirc.

[dapper moss]

no last name either?

[jagged badge]

We don’t know what his name used to be

[slim girder]

Nope. He is just Commander Zavala.

[jagged badge]

Just that he’s Zavala now

[dapper moss]

aura ngl

[jagged badge]

According to a Reddit post (and it does sound like it in the cutscene), he says “la-azazel”

Which is Hebrew

And basically means “dammit”

[slim girder]

I had a feeling it wasn't anything crazy. The most explicit word we've heard from anyone is ikora calling uldren a bitch

[eager trout]

So his real name is Commander, and his last name is actually Zavala

[slim girder]

Yes. He's that much of a chad.

[ashen comet]

Human lifespan alone is ~280-300 years, and In pretty sure age wise Awoken are effectively immirtal

People seem to forget that time in Destiny is moving very close to real time give or take a few months. Saying lightless should have died of old age by now or seem to never is silly it's like expecting a major character who is physically in their 60s-70s to keel over from a heart attack.

Not to mention the medical technology that we dont know the full extent of.

[hazy veldt]

I must have misunderstood you, bc events of destiny 2 are AT LEAST in 30th centuries

[ashen comet]

I meant as in its been 10 years in the destiny universe since we were resurrected just like its been 10 years IRL.

Thats what I mean

I mean time in Destiny is CURRENTLY moving at the same pace as our own

[heady monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

people in the last city every tuesday

[little gorge]

meanwhile people in the dreaming city stuck in an eternal loop:

[ashen comet]

I should have just said moving in real time but you get the point

[ember storm]

It is in fact canon

Shit goes south on Tuesday

[trim grotto]

Human lifespan was extended, but likely not currently - the Speaker and Eris Morn aside, who aren't good case studies.
Awoken who left the Distributary do age... But very slowly.

There's an entry related to modern lifespan that I cannot seem to find
I'll get back to you on that

[jagged badge]

Today, Cryptarchs and scholars work to distill the legends of the Golden Age into truth. We know now that Humans lived longer, flew further, and learned faster. We know that countless ancient diseases and hatreds were extinguished forever. Human aspiration gave birth to vast engineering projects, sweeping social movements, and even new forms of life.```

This?

[trim grotto]

That's exactly it

Lived, past tense

[ashen comet]

What about that says lifespans are shorter NOW though?

[ember storm]

Lived longer

Meaning they don’t live as long

Multiple sources have said that lifespan WAS tripled during the golden age

[ashen comet]

We stoll dont know what the current lifespan is though

[ember storm]

Nothing says it still is that length and this implies it is no longer the case

[ember storm]

It would be the average lifespan we have today

Without the traveler actively blessing our civilization since the collapse, is the presumption

It wouldn’t be general technological advancements because that’s just not how aging works

Humans very much have an expiration date, that can’t be changed

[jagged badge]

General Technological Advancements 🫡

[ember storm]

Average lifespan being like 50 in the 1700s was because people just died a shit ton

[ember storm]

Captain Kiwicumber and Private Pineapple

[ashen comet]

This is a bit of a fallacy going off of "they used past tense that it WAS tripled", that just means it stopped increasing at some point, Lived longer obviously yeah that points to the fact they dont anymore.

Er whoops

Wrong comment

[ember storm]

Do you think

If I were a golden age scientist

I could feasibly create

A REAL crab apple

[trim grotto]

Nothing explicit, but we need to make some leaps of logic. Like the generations that have passed in Safiyah's family, or that Osiris is said to appear to be in his fifties. Wouldn't be fifties if he lived for centuries.

All of the terms regarding lifespan are in past tense. While that isn't definitive, it does hold an implication.

[jagged badge]

Amanda supposedly makes a comment about the 300-year lifespans along the lines of “I can’t imagine anyone who isn’t a Guardian living that long”

[ashen comet]

Life expectancy == life span, though.

Where did the slash go

Whatever

[trim grotto]

It ran away

To live in the big city

[trim grotto]

This is true, but the City Age isn't the Dark Age. The only examples we can cite for long lived humans are Eris and the Speaker.

Plus, the life expectancy/span argument doesn't cover the Osiris comments unless we're assuming everyone in the Golden Age was geriatric, which they weren't

Though that is an amusing image

[ashen comet]

Well yeah, We know Ana and Elsie were still fairly young even though Elsie got EXO'd.

[jagged badge]

Living for 240 years with grey/white hair would be crazy

[trim grotto]

Yeah exactly haha

Anyway, point is while it isn't explicit, I think there's enough points to reasonably argue that human lifespan has reverted to "normal" levels for a variety of reasons.

[hazy veldt]

now when ur here

id like to ask about that

destroyed pyramid

i dont remember the context but u mentioned that a pyramid ship was destroyed (not talking abt essence)

as far as i remember there is no way to even scratch one

[jagged badge]

Mara did it, using the stored power she had from Oryx

[hazy veldt]

the one she got when she "died"

?

or when he was slain by us so she scavenged his power

[jagged badge]

Well, that was part of the same chain of events/plan

She died to Oryx, and when we killed him, she usurped his power and returned to life

[hazy veldt]

oh ok

thanks

[trim grotto]

I believe it happened in the Witch Queen CE, but I can't check for a while - I'm at work and my sourcing, therefore, is limited.

[hazy veldt]

its ight, ty anyways

[hazy veldt]

Was nezarec using veil as weapon, or to amplify his own powers, bc in the raid itself he already knows where savathun hid the veil, he knew who would come to kill him, and he already knew of typical guardian behavior although he was like alive for barely a week, i knew that he doesnt need a body but i did not know that he goes into spectator mode without it

i guess his telepathical abilities are so tuff that he doesnt even need the veil to gain intel about the world around

[ashen comet]

https://i.redd.it/oys6xkzc4p271.gif

[hazy veldt]

that sure belongs in lore discussion

[ashen comet]

Didnt you post a pic of your spotify earlier 😭 . This one is Destiny. And Idrk how to answer question.

[empty fern]

[ashen comet]

Whats that mean.

Anyway do we know more about the precursprs.

[empty fern]

That vex faction? That they’re the oldest(chronologically) or the youngest (when made)

[ashen comet]

No like the Witness Race.

[empty fern]

Oh

No :3

[broken warren]

I think they're supposed to be the first vex, the descendants are somewhere from the future

[empty fern]

Yes

Thats, what I tried to say

[broken warren]

Also signalis

[broken warren]

Yeha

[empty fern]

Ik:3
Check off topic

[trim grotto]

I don't believe he had any specific connection with the Veil - he's just like that

[trim grotto]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by more
What's your baseline?

[trim grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UDF2gZFAVhn6vXjVdgWXO5P1Fdb6VFSMRTyx88Im0es/edit?usp=drivesdk
Under the header of SUBJ: FOLLOWUP ON AFFIDAVIT FOR INCID #12059

[ashen comet]

Like as in I mean have we gotten any lore past TFS and Entelechy.

[trim grotto]

Nothing particularly comes to mind off the top of my head

[eager trout]

How do we know the names of the Vex?

[eager trout]

What does the name of Ghosts of the Deep refer to?

[trim grotto]

Good question! That isn't actually clear, unless we're getting theoretical or a bit esoteric.

[dim minnow]

aren't Vex referred to by their unit names in the Books of Sorrow too?

like Quria is called a Hydra?

Caiatl also refers to Vex hydras without being aware of the old Greek mythological version

[trim grotto]

Ghosts referring both to actual Ghosts of the Lucent Hive (and the one trying to resurrect Oryx) as well as referring to the necromancy ongoing, plus the metaphorical ghosts of an enemy of our past and the disembodied voice of Xivu.
Deep is a dual reference to Darkness, known as the Deep by the Hive, as well as literally being Deep in an ocean.

[trim grotto]

True, meaning the implication is that they've always been called this, human mythology aside. Which... It's a bit of a chicken or the egg question.

Which came first, and why are the names shared?

[dim minnow]

fuck it, Vex briefly visited ancient Greece and that is where the names in Greek mythology came from

[lusty pewter]

i think its from greek mythology cause many vex are named from there, like, Minotaurs, Hydras, and Harpies.

[dim minnow]

Vex naming conventions all come from Greek Mythology

the issue is how did they get these names in-universe?

one would normally say it is just what humanity called them since we were inspired by it, but the problem is that other races like the Vex and Cabal recognize the Vex by those names as well

and they've been at odds with the Vex a lot longer than we have

[lusty pewter]

Perhaps BrayTech? cause they have a history with the vex.

[dim minnow]

what I'm saying is that humanity couldn't have been the ones to name the Vex units

[eager trout]

Maybe it's a time loop

Humanity got the names for Greek mythology from the Vex

Which in turn got the names from Greek mythology

[dim minnow]

ok you know what, you might be kinda onto something

maybe the Vex were given the names from us based on Greek Mythology, and they liked those names so much, they retroactively gave those names to themselves

essentially doing an in-universe retcon

[trim grotto]

This is not implausible

Good thinking

[eager trout]

The Vex vibing with random things made by humanity should be a canon fact

Like the rock music thing

[sick yew]

It is a canon fact

[fresh zephyr]

Is the Octopus monster showing up today

I really need a name drop

[slim girder]

It already has a name. Check the last entry in the books of descent.

"Lord of every nothing"

Don't think we'll actually get to see it but it seems like this is going to be like the witness where we'll see a lot of its influence before meeting it fully. Since it can't yet walk in the physical world.

[blazing wasp]

thats more a title, but it looks like its something... nameless? eldritch horror esque

[slim girder]

Heavy Cthulhu vibes

I love it.

I think that's the point. Something like this doesn't really go by a name.

[fresh zephyr]

That’s so fire holy shit

Lord of Every Nothing makes sense for the Taken

But I’m kinda sad the Winnower is being challenged, I love the Winnower😔 and by extension I love My Witness

[slim girder]

The winnower isn't really being challenged. It's just sitting back and observing. I'm sure it probably loves that something new and powerful is rising up. As that is the logic of the winnower.

[fresh zephyr]

Apparently it was carving paths that belonged to the Winnower though

I try not to let Byf dictate lore, because he does that a lot in his videos, but it sounds a lot like a usurping situation

[slim girder]

Not exactly. Oryx said that it was carving paths that should belong to the winnower. Which means this new being has power on a similar level.
So already it's shown to be almost on par with destiny's version of literal gods.

[sick yew]

It could merely mimick the "paths" relating to the winnower

[slim girder]

This is a usurping situation but more to the taken throne.

[sick yew]

Whether it tries to impersonate the Winnower or act on its behalf
Who knows

[fresh zephyr]

Could Oryx technically introduce us to the Winnower?

Since he has actually spoken to the Deep, no one else has

[sick yew]

I doubt he has a direct line to the Winnower lol

[slim girder]

Probably not. He only spoke to it once using the tablets of ruin.

[fresh zephyr]

But we have the tabletssss

🔥🔥🔥

[sick yew]

One

[slim girder]

One

[sick yew]

we got like, one

[fresh zephyr]

Ah

😔

[sick yew]

Not even the full thing just a shard of it

[slim girder]

Another tablet is in golgoroths cellar

[fresh zephyr]

Omg is it possible the Octopus monster is the one that kills us

Causing the grave?

[sick yew]

?

[fresh zephyr]

We have Ergo Sum now

From Season of Dawn

[sick yew]

Youre just joking around right

[fresh zephyr]

Nonono

I am being real

In Season of Dawn there was the gravesite

[sick yew]

Faithe the grave we saw in dawn was one random timeline

[trim grotto]

i mean it's possible literally anything killed us in that random timeline

[fresh zephyr]

😔

[sick yew]

Its highly unlikely we're in the timeline that this scene was from

I sure as hell aint cause then Saint would be handing out Dead Mans Tale and not mf Bastion

Favorite gun my ass

[slim girder]

No way am i getting killed with bastion on me.

My thorn will be on my corpse

[fresh zephyr]

It’s so strange, because Quria even has a line like “I’ve seen your grave”

[sick yew]

Again, infinite timelines, infinite possibilities

[fresh zephyr]

Part of me hopes we get cooked in Frontiers

[sick yew]

And then what, Destiny ends

[fresh zephyr]

We hide away on Apollo planet

Funny ice farm

The Echo was captured way too easy

There’s something going on

[sick yew]

That part is obvious

Some shit is looming

Many ways it could all go wrong tho

Depends whether they want to keep this season self contained or have it lead into Frontiers

[fresh zephyr]

Can you imagine the 2017 Tower being destroyed

[sick yew]

The tower that isnt a tower?

[fresh zephyr]

Didn’t they say it would shake up the Hive pantheon and lead us into the new saga

[sick yew]

We'd just move another hundred meters to the side

[fresh zephyr]

Lmao

[sick yew]

?

[fresh zephyr]

I just want the old Tower back😔

[sick yew]

Where would it have said that

[fresh zephyr]

Like way way last year

Hold on

https://youtu.be/-PYzMqhu3Fs?si=EAuh7aGPLTG6IG5_

skip to about 4 mins onwards

Oh wait it’s 3:30 ish lol

[sick yew]

Nothing really on whether itll affect Frontiers or nah

At least from your timestamp

You can also read a lot into what might just be hypeup stuff

[fresh zephyr]

It sounds like everything is about to really drastically change though, I hope so

A live event would be cool

🔥🔥✍🏻

[sick yew]

"Dreadnaught whole new purpose" could be seen as it just being the new destination for the activity or involving Eris' throne world or that we actually get to pilot it in the future

Could mean all of those or none of those

[fresh zephyr]

Isn’t it too far gone with all the tentacle stuff?

Idk how it works

I need the lore people

[sick yew]

The Dreadnaught is in severe disrepair that is correct

its crumbling

I personally doubt that it'll ever fly again, had they wanted to take the story there I think we would have been working on getting the ship back to speed all season long

[fresh zephyr]

I have no idea where it’s going honestly

[sick yew]

Neither do I

And thats good

I'll be happy as long as we get to clap Xivu in a random strike

Cause thatd be funny

[next bobcat]

it'd be sick if oryx purged the dreadnaught for us and we used that to travel to other galaxies

i guess he's still kinda angry at us for not following his logic

but if we kill xivu and savathûn maybe we'll be on his good side

[sick yew]

One is effectively undead and the other is hiding god knows where

I highly doubt we'll ever kill Savathun, she is a pretty neutral force atp

Or at least she doesnt stand against us directly cause she is sorta on our side sorta not

[fresh zephyr]

I feel like killing Savathûn or any character like that would hurt the story more than it’s worth. They bring so much to the story

[sick yew]

Xivu can die for all I care

Even better make her fall down the stairs or some shit completely unceremoniously

Hive god of war dead by slipping on some wet floor

[fresh zephyr]

So is she literally vibing in the Scarlett Keep right now

Or was that her throne world in the cutscene

[sick yew]

Not the Scarlett Keep
I find it rather unlikely shes here in Sol atm otherwise we'd just shuffle over and slit her throat

And she also doesnt have a throne world anymore as you remember from Season of the Witch

Thats precisely why shes hiding

[fresh zephyr]

Maybe she’s hiding on Apollo planet

[sick yew]

Afaik we have no clue where shes hiding

Makes sense cause if we did id be the first to knock on her door with my burning fists

[jagged badge]

That was her Throne World

[sick yew]

Huh

How do we know

[jagged badge]

Season of the Witch described her Throne World, so we know it’s supposed to be fleshy and gross

[sick yew]

Isnt that just all hive stuff

[jagged badge]

In the cutscene, the tower she’s on has this like sinewy stuff

[jagged badge]

No

[sick yew]

Call me xenophobe but what you said is essentially any and all hive stuff to me

fleshy and gross

[jagged badge]

Look! I have raised cathedrals made of flesh. When a breeze caresses them, they blush and contract, fine hairs sensing the change.

They are worshipped with bare touch. MY THRONE SHUDDERS WITH JOY.

The halls of my palace are echoing throats, slick and filled with breath. Its windows are glazed with skin, opalescent and alive, latticed with blue-black veins.```

[sleek matrix]

Poor soul

[sick yew]

Nah

[sleek matrix]

She believes in something that is a complete lie

But i dont think we will get anywhere near xivu

[sick yew]

So do all the hive really

Except the Lucent hive but theyre an exception

[sleek matrix]

Savathun and even the echo

Its not the orginal oryx but the oryx was a traitor

[sick yew]

The Echo still holds on to the sword logic

And so did real Oryx tho he didnt admit to himself he was a heretic

[sleek matrix]

When crota died oryx wanted revenge

That is heresy

[sick yew]

Correct

[sleek matrix]

But its ofc understandable

[next bobcat]

this shit's straight outta 40k im telling you

[hazy veldt]

U must have mixed me up w someone, i dont even have spotify

[hollow hinge]

Can it really not be spun in a way that it isn't?

Yes Echo Oryx says it is but what if our Oryx saw a worthy challenger in us

Seeing that we killed his son

[sick yew]

Thats giving us a bit too much credit dont you think

Sure we clapped his son but that wouldnt really make us a worthy challenge

Its "just" his son

[sick yew]

Considering young Oryx said it directly I feel like he would have yk, tried to defend his older self

[hollow hinge]

Yes because the younger version of ourselves always knows better than the older, right

[sleek matrix]

The dead deserve to die

That is the core philosophy behind it

[hollow hinge]

Yes but with us being Crota's end, I don't see any heresy in challenging his killers and seeing if they are worthy

[sick yew]

If I found out my older self pulled some shit I'd try to think of a reason to why I might have rationalized such a thing instead of going "yeah FUCK that guy who does he think he is??"

[jagged badge]

Oryx came out of vengeance for his son

Out of grief and a desire to punish those who killed him

That is heretical to the Sword Logic

[sleek matrix]

Yes and like the echo said

It was a waste

[sick yew]

Werent there other sources equally confirming this?

[sleek matrix]

Confirming what?

[sick yew]

That he came to Sol for revenge

[ember storm]

There was something that directly stated if oryx were smart he’d go at it like an actual war

It was not a war

It was revenge

That’s the only reason he lost

He beelined straight for the city with his entire fleet which is how Mara cut him off at Saturn

If he’d just stationed right outside the system and started incrementally dispatching taken we’d basically have no way to deal with it

[slim elk]

Arrogance also got him good by just throwing the occasional taken and Hive at us while Oryx was wandering the Dreaming City

[ember storm]

Yeah he also just saw a shiny awoken city hidden in the reef and couldn’t help himself

[slim elk]

Managed to infiltrate his own "throne" and make him retreat

Lorewise even the Echo seems willing to listen. Wants to check out Fundament after hearing from Savathun about the synzy lie

[sick yew]

Didnt Riven literally invite him in or some shit?

Or like keep a backdoor open

[ember storm]

No he was just screwing around and just like, saw her

He followed the techuens through their little escape portal and stuff

[sick yew]

huh

[ember storm]

Because the techuens did that

[sick yew]

Also is there any reason back in Taken King that the Dreadnaught never moved away from Saturn after the initial battle with the Awoken?

Did their funky ass magic actually damage the ship or did he just think that the rings of saturn were a nice parking space

[ember storm]

Well he destroyed his entire fleet and basically used up all of the ship’s power just to look cool

[sick yew]

So the same energy used to power the ship is also used for the ion cannon? (ik its not called that but I wanted to make a reference)

[ember storm]

He wanted to regain advantage which is why he immediately started taking everything he could

Remember this did not start from any tactical position

It was petty and vengeful and out of pure spite

[slim elk]

And again
Got distracted poking at the wish dragon

[ember storm]

That too

[sleek matrix]

Riven bested oryx

[sick yew]

Hard to imagine anything that the Awoken had in store could actually damage the Dreadnaught
Not to undermine the power of Awoken magic but like, yk look at the damn thing

[ember storm]

I mean

It didn’t

[sick yew]

But if I were Oryx id also like to blast the shit outta them for no other reason than it looks cool

[ember storm]

He literally just wanted to go “fuck you biden blast”

[sick yew]

Based king

[ember storm]

and drained a bunch of the ship’s power

[sick yew]

Could have just thrown a few thousand thrall into the mixer and make fuel outta them
If the Bugs from Helldivers bleed oil so do the hive prob

[sleek matrix]

[sick yew]

[sleek matrix]

I dont think it works like that

[sick yew]

Im sure it does

[ember storm]

I have not played helldivers

omg

[sick yew]

@ember storm also heres a question thats been on my mind for a while, if you got a throne world and you die you go to the throne world
But are you stuck there forever until someone shuffles in and claps you there?

[ember storm]

No

[sick yew]

Or can you come back to the "real" plane after a while

[ember storm]

Dying in the ascendant plane itself (not specifically your throne world) is where you go into like a halfway point where your followers need to tithe enough tribute to where you have the power to come back

For lesser ascendant hive you just need the willpower to crawl your way back into the normal world again (I.e Kelgorath)

The higher up on the food chain the more it takes to recuperate, essentially

This is why Crota needed a whole ass ritual and everything just to bring him back to reality

He wasn’t even dead just weakened

[sick yew]

But its not impossible

Meaning Eris will return to her flat once and I gotta find a new place to sleep

Unfortunate

[sleek matrix]

Yes

She will return but for now she has to stay

[sick yew]

Mhm

[sleek matrix]

Keep an eye on oryx

[sick yew]

yeye

I mean Drifter has that convenient tear in reality itself that goes from her bedroom to Eris' throne world so they can still meet up just fine

Sure it'd no longer be just the two of them cause the memory of the taken king is probably constantly yapping about us but oh well

[fresh zephyr]

Oh so Black Terrace is Xivu Arath

[eager trout]

I meant that it should be canon that they like more things from humanity like they like rock music

[hazy veldt]

Im a bit puzzled abt the precursors enacting final shape

because there were 3 factions of them

each different vision on final shape

and it is said that traveler left after it realized what they wanted to do after bringing veil to their homeworld

how and why did they try to merge veil and traveler if they havent even agreed on what is final shape by that time

or traveler just left them before they could do anything

[little gorge]

isn't tearing into the ascendant plane supposed to be like

at least moderately difficult

we always need some fancy excuse to be able to do that

how does that even exist

[ember storm]

i mean, if you're going in blind without any way of properly determining your destination

Eris' throne world is essentially right where her apartment would be in the ascendant plane

it is a rift she made

there's nothing particularly difficult about that

[empty fern]

Probably like pools with a baby in them?

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny2-raiders-leviathan-introvert-gif-27150940

Oh or whatever cloning smells like

[ashen comet]

drinks them

[fresh zephyr]

I was joking about Malok

There’s no way he’s the villain

[hollow hinge]

"At least the stars will remember the shape I gave them"

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[empty fern]

Reduced to a banger cosmetic

[sleek matrix]

apparently there's a guardian that left the vanguard and follows the sword logic. name was erased by the hidden

[languid charm]

Savthun is really mad

[sleek matrix]

Oh yea

She warned us not to get involved

[languid charm]

what about xivu tho

[sleek matrix]

Probably even more angry

[little gorge]

||"i am the way tearer, death charter, first among navigators, and i am FREE! Aiat!"||

oryx really cooked with that one

[languid charm]

He cooked with all the lines in the mission

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah the mini Regicide was really nice

Though it was nowhere as hard as Regicide

That being said, Oryx didn’t account for Lubrae’s Ruin

Nor did Xivu Arath

[empty fern]

Fine

I guess I’ll play d2 for the story

[strong tendon]

If you load into the nether after completing the story she says “YOU KILLED HIM! YOU KILLED HIM! I WILL FIGHT YOU FOREVER!”

[ashen comet]

kinda wish they at least said something about the new taken god or whatever

[fresh zephyr]

So wait Savathûn is GONE

LIKE

GONE GONE

[ashen comet]

no

[strong tendon]

No she’s just gone

Not dead

[ashen comet]

Shes not working with the city or guardians anymore

[fresh zephyr]

I meant like gone gone as in she’s left Sol

[ashen comet]

We murdered her son (again)

And then stole his head

[strong tendon]

As in we probably won’t see her for a long while now because she’s cooking up some villainous scheme to get revenge

[ashen comet]

still no

she's just done working with us

[strong tendon]

She has no reason to leave sol. She’s still very much trying to get control of the pale heart with her forces

But yeah surprised we learned NOTHING about the new taken god apart from the fact the taken willed it into existence out of necessity for a leader

[static wind]

so did oryx trick us so we had to kill him? since well himself and his sisters were heretics acording to the echo

[ashen comet]

No cutscene or nothin

Id assume we'll probably get something on the twelfth

Along with Marathon reveal

[strong tendon]

If you hadn’t noticed, oryx was going through a teeny tiny midlife crisis this whole episode

[ashen comet]

He didnt trick anyone the whole episode is just his crash out

HE doesnt even know what hes doing

[strong tendon]

He even says in the mission “I do not yield. I just have nowhere else to go”

[ashen comet]

Yuh

[static wind]

i mean the echo was kinda monologing alot about how is view isnt what sava and xivu follow

that he himself was a heretic

i think he said there is nothing left for me

[strong tendon]

By his whole logic he shouldn’t even be alive in any form

[ashen comet]

He isnt a heretic

His existence is heresy

Is what he was saying

He also didnt like

[languid charm]

"at the end i was the true heresy" credits roll

[ashen comet]

Choose to be ""revived"" though

[static wind]

idk if i should be dissapointed that the echo didnt just do something else as its energy was dispersed

[ashen comet]

I mean

[sleek matrix]

Like what?

[static wind]

i expected a bigger boom from something that is darkness and light combined

[ashen comet]

We slammed it with a shit ton of taken energy to break it apart

[strong tendon]

Well it went pretty far away before I went boom

[ashen comet]

Specifically so it couldnt do that

[sleek matrix]

The taken energy was that?

It took over the light and dark and replaced it

[ashen comet]

Why?

[static wind]

plot twist the echo aint destroyed it was sent to the taken god

[strong tendon]

It seemed pretty destroyed. Even oryx’s last words were pretty final

[ashen comet]

Mhm

[fresh zephyr]

Don’t worry, Oryx will be back in ten years

And we’ll sort it all out then

Next stop, giant octopus

[lofty badge]

lol

[little gorge]

why did we even stop him

we couldve gone to fundament smh

[lofty badge]

think Savathun went so mad she just went to fully focus on coming up with a plan to destory?

[lofty badge]

cause we could not risk the echo falling into someone else's hands

[sleek matrix]

He didnt wanna go

[little gorge]

ok fair

[sleek matrix]

Had no where else to go

[fresh zephyr]

Savathûn’s weakness is family, she chokes on her words talking to Oryx at one point

[sleek matrix]

The echo could of gone

But it instead stayed

[lofty badge]

cause it realized it too was a heretic

in a way

[static wind]

so the 1st echo barely even had sentience

the 2nd had a bit more

3rd one was oryx will itself

[little gorge]

weirdly the hive god that literally speaks in all caps was the only one that didn't crash out

[silk gyro]

well that was incredibly disappointing.

My own fault for getting invested in the story I guess

[strong tendon]

She does later on in new nether dialogue

[little gorge]

i genuinely don't get what you guys are disappointed about

[silk gyro]

I liked Echo'd Oryx, didn't want him to die like that

[strong tendon]

What did you want? There was only two possible outcomes. Oryx is destroyed. Or someone claims him.

[silk gyro]

we're the knife of his slaying

[lofty badge]

that means we claim his throne or we should have kek

[little gorge]

tbh i expected us to at least keep the echo itself

[strong tendon]

He’s too powerful. And we would be constantly bombarded by savathun and xivu because they are relentless

[lofty badge]

i don't think we could since Savathun and Xivu would keep tyring to ge it and the Echo would have kept trying to escape

[little gorge]

no i mean

[silk gyro]

I dunno, something less abrupt. But again, my bad for having much too high expectations from an episodic story.

[little gorge]

remove the memory of oryx from it or something

eris talked about separating them at some point

[silk gyro]

bungo made us kill Broryx and made Savathun hate us. Big

[sleek matrix]

Or we seperate oryx from the echo

But that wasn't possible

[stone rivet]

bungie let the conductor live but kill oryx, wut

[sleek matrix]

They probably have plans for maya and the vex in the future

And its not actually oryx

Its just a memory

[stone rivet]

dont care bring him back bungie

[little gorge]

as the #1 oryx the taken king fan i say this was fine

[blazing wasp]

Yall read the newest lore book of the episode? the final one #9?

[pseudo pebble]

We had the means to kill the echo since act 2 as stated by Sloane

all of this was for nothing..? 😭

[sleek matrix]

How so?

We needed will breaker

[blazing wasp]

i think we only fully reshaped the willbreaker recently? anyhow, he was a risk worth taking

[sleek matrix]

Yea

[pseudo pebble]

Well maybe im thinking it was act 3 part 1

[sleek matrix]

Now we cant deal with the taken permanently

[pseudo pebble]

But sloane did say this

And eris begged for more time

[sleek matrix]

There always gonna be a threat

[little gorge]

either way i doubt we'd have managed to do that

[pseudo pebble]

it feels so pointless

[little gorge]

because of whoever their new god is

[sleek matrix]

Yes but we could of travelled anywhere with the echo

In the ascendant plane

Now we cant

[pseudo pebble]

Like

We spent so long going w eris’s plan to

Separate the Echo

[ashen comet]

Oryx isnt voiced by Aghdashloo

[pseudo pebble]

just for nothing to come of it

[ashen comet]

so they wont

[stone rivet]

true hes voiced by a dude that also voices someone in cookie run thats why hes gotta come back now

[ashen comet]

what the fuck is cookie run

[sick yew]

Probably been discussed a lot but uh with this weeks story mission basically confirming we are able to be the next taken king huh

From a pure mastery of the craft perspective obviously

Welp surely this next mission will go well

[broken warren]

This surely has been the episode heresy

[ember storm]

has not played this week

[slim girder]

<@&1019968308973416448>

Get em

[dense pike]

godzilla_kotm70y has been banned!

[valid sun]

rolled

[rigid fiber]

i forgot the right command

[slim girder]

Prime mods

[strong tendon]

Oh my god

The final lore page is peak

[ember storm]

urh

[little gorge]

was there any doubt of that

[dapper moss]

oryx :(

[sick yew]

Well dayum that was kind of a baller mission

I expected things to go waaaaay south

"At least the stars will remember the shape I gave them"

Rest well king

[sick yew]

I mean yeah

[dapper moss]

man so what do we do with our "mastery of taken power"

now that theres no threat from oryx

[sick yew]

Nothin

I mean we got willbreaker arguably you could probably just pick that shit up and become the next taken king

[sick yew]

Hella cute ngl

[dapper moss]

oh my god

i never read lore books

but that was actually earth shatteringly cute

[sick yew]

You should
Theres some great ones

[paper gorge]

I don't mind be spoiled , did we learn anything major from the remainder of the act ?

[sick yew]

(the act is over)

Story is finished

[paper gorge]

Come on

[dapper moss]

uhhh savathun really really hates us now

[paper gorge]

We did we do ?

What did we do

[sick yew]

We destroyed the Echo

[dapper moss]

stole her sons head

and destroyed the echo

[sick yew]

Savy got angry when we stole her sons head yeah

[paper gorge]

She cares about her kids ?

[sick yew]

I mean yeah

Oryx did too

But tbf Savathun doesnt follow the sword logic anymore so its not even heresy in her case

[paper gorge]

What was her son's name

[sick yew]

I already forgot lmao

Hangon

Malok I think

Or something like that

[paper gorge]

Is that the guy with blue jellyfish head from d1 ?

[sick yew]

Yes

[paper gorge]

Did we learn anything new about xir-kuur? , obai- hul or kiteer?

[ashen comet]

Nope

[sick yew]

I have never heard any of these names lol

[ashen comet]

The last one is the Resonant Onofe

Knife

[little gorge]

among other things

she's repeatedly told us not to get involved in her family business

[sick yew]

Yeah well tough luck

[little gorge]

which is kinda hard when her family is made up of genocidal gods that usually want to kill us

[ashen comet]

I mean like she was the first subjugator, what else it there to know?

She lived for about a year

[sick yew]

We are party of the family now, as Oryx's heir and shit

[paper gorge]

Just wondering why is she following the new taken god or something. Like why is everyone calling themselves the knife ?

[sick yew]

Well both Hive and the Winnower like that term

For the hive it just means youre the guy that whoever you serve sends you in to get shit done

And well for the Winnower it also sorta means that but the knife in that sense is also more of a tool and shit to "carve" what the Winnower liked to do

[paper gorge]

Ok

[fresh zephyr]

Malok

Was in the April Update

In the Blighted Chalice strike

[raw cape]

Echo gone? Tf

[sick yew]

He ded

[paper gorge]

Well that's sad

[raw cape]

Rip. Why couldn't they use if for guardians use. I'm assuming too dangerous due to xivu and savvy

[sick yew]

That and well the guy really just couldnt take it anymore

[raw cape]

Ahh damn.

[sick yew]

Prisoner of Eris or prisoner of Savathun

[raw cape]

Post life crisis

[sick yew]

Either way prisoner

[paper gorge]

I was hoping we could take dreadnought outside the system

[sick yew]

The dreadnaught is crumbling

That shits in major disrepair

[paper gorge]

Oh

[sick yew]

Gotta take it down to the shop and have the suspension fixed yk

[raw cape]

Also its hive Infested too either way

[frigid sparrow]

finished act 3

[sick yew]

Die

[frigid sparrow]

literal jobber

[paper gorge]

Give eris her throne world

The high heresy

[raw cape]

Eris resurrected now or still limited to her throne world?

[sick yew]

She can return with the help of some rituals theoretically

Tho if you read the final lorebook entry youll know she currently has no interest to

She rather wants to explore her throne world

[raw cape]

Ahh

[sick yew]

With Drifter

[ashen comet]

She wasnt, pretty sure she was one that was actually Taken by Oryx

[sick yew]

||they kissed||

[ashen comet]

Unless Im wrong lol

[frigid sparrow]

they call him 007, 0 voice lines, 0 backstory, 7 different fights

[fresh zephyr]

They absolutely fumbled Kehtar icl

[sick yew]

Rest well king, I shall not forget you

🫡

[frigid sparrow]

"Resonant Knife... I don't even get a real name... just a purpose.."

[raw cape]

More like placeholder fodder

Take it away, plot will still be the same

[sick yew]

Eris not dead??

Whole plot never set in motion

[raw cape]

Oh yeah. Forgot about that

I'll shut up now

[frigid sparrow]

something like that could feasibly be done by any other character

[fresh zephyr]

Kehtar needed to be the new Dread faction head

Fumbled

[frigid sparrow]

the resonant knife on its own is not an interesting character and is relegated to just being a plot device

[sick yew]

I mean they could have also just been setup for whats to come, a henchmen of something bigger thats clearly there

[raw cape]

Do we know who was controlling the taken?

[frigid sparrow]

which we've yet to see, but that's also shown by the "mutations" in the taken

[sick yew]

Not by name nah

[raw cape]

Guess it will be explored in a future season then

[sleek matrix]

Lord of nothing

Soma like that

[paper gorge]

So do we know who is the new taken god is or ?

[sleek matrix]

Its a new entity for sure

[paper gorge]

Ok thanks

[frigid sparrow]

I also don't really know how much I like of this being "setup" stuff with savvy and the new taken god because I don't wanna have another expansion dealing with them so soon

[fresh zephyr]

The Octopus is like a 10 year thing I think

[sleek matrix]

Its to early to tell

[raw cape]

I hope, they'll leave it until few seasons after frontiers

Need to expand on the nine if I'm honest

[agile panther]

Or why they targeted Eris and what ritual they were trying to perform on her

[fresh zephyr]

This might be a hot take but

[sleek matrix]

I doubt it

[fresh zephyr]

I forgot the Nine even existed

[raw cape]

._.

[sleek matrix]

Didnt they say apollo will be the main jump start for the next saga

[frigid sparrow]

what 0 plot relevance for like half a decade does to a mfs

[raw cape]

I bet xur is on the dreadnaught selling exotics to the hive and taken

[fresh zephyr]

Jokers Wild was the last time the Nine were mentioned

That was in early 2019

[sick yew]

Uh no?

Prophecy

[fresh zephyr]

I mean like

Oh yeah

But still

That’s ages ago

😭

[broken warren]

Yeah

[sick yew]

Is there no way to look up the lorebook of the season on Ishtar atm?

@dim minnow pls Dova answer my call for help

[dim minnow]

I think it's on ishtar

Just to by releases and select heresy

Then select lore entries and look for the pages from there

If you find one page you should be able to go to the whole book

[sick yew]

Under the "entries" tab there are 59 items all just being item descriptions

No lorebooks

[dim minnow]

hmmm

looks like you would need to wait then

[sick yew]

Rip

Oh well

[eager trout]

Just saw someone called "Mara Sov is hot."; unironically the least insane name I've seen involving Mara Sov.

[dim minnow]

[next bobcat]

what a world we live in eh

[quiet osprey]

what exactly did we gain from episode Heresy if all we gained (besides eris's throne world), we cant use or is just gone?

[empty fern]

We gained
The dreadnaught not pulling an almighty on us

[sick yew]

We gained Savathun not having a gigantic spike in power via imprisoning the echo

And yeah the Dreadnaught ain't gonna go on a collision course with earth anytime soon (which would be far more dangerous than the almighty not only cause we don't have our bro Raspy around anymore to snipe it out of orbit)

[ember storm]

guardians coming to terms with the fact a war doesn't automatically include material gain every victory

a situation where the enemies don't get an edge is a victory

[cunning gulch]

Hm

[agile panther]

This episode made me wish more than ever that our guardian wasn’t a silent protagonist and had choices

[ember storm]

The guardian does speak, it just costs a shit ton to have them do it for every single ingame interaction across a year of content

But also destiny just isn’t the kind of game to have dialogue options

The guardian is a defined character that you can’t totally reign over beyond loose headcanons (they’re totally besties with ghost and give him hugs)

[agile panther]

Rip the talks savvy likes to have with us

[eager trout]

I planned on following up with a lore question

But I have a different one now

Are player names canon?

[fallow escarp]

I just read the new lore card

Nice

[trim grotto]

Only in headcanon.

[atomic dock]

One thing I forgot is how did Rasputin die again? Or is the warmind still around? The last I read about is that it was going to defend humankind on its own terms then didn’t hear anything about it after that

[jagged badge]

In Season of Arrivals, Rasputin was shut down by the Witness, and was in a bad state for years. Ana Bray saved what she could on an engram, but it was decaying. In Season of the Seraph, we worked with the AI of Clovis Bray to restore Rasputin using data from his subminds. However we also had to keep wresting control of his arsenal and weaponry from House Salvation/Xivu Arath’s forces. We discovered during that season that Xivu Arath planned to use the Warsats to cause immense destruction to the Last City that would also cause a ritual, summoning her forces through the Ascendant Plane, directly over the city. Rasputin wouldn’t let that happen, and chose to sacrifice himself so that his weapons would be destroyed and couldn’t be turned against humanity

[atomic dock]

Ah ok. Thanks. So the warmind still died then ok. 👍🏻

[jagged badge]

Mhm

[queen juniper]

I might sound crazy, but oryx is stronger than the witness by techniqality

During witness boss fight, if your in the outer ranges of the witnesses slam, then you can live pretty easily, if your in ANY range of oryx's fist, you fcking die

[trim grotto]

[queen juniper]

Using the logic that rhulk is stronger than oryx, we can depict that rhulk is physically stronger as well

Since he inst kills im pretty sure with a light kick

[trim grotto]

There are numerous issues with this
Not the least of which simply being encounter mechanics

[queen juniper]

I rarely read lore so im just going off of my copium filled brain

Same logic that hefnd is stronger than savathuns daughter during shattered throne

Whatever her name was

[trim grotto]

Dul Incaru, the Eternal Return.

The vengeance of an Ahamkara is probably stronger than Dul Incaru, yes. But you really cannot accurately compare Rhulk, Oryx, and the Witness, based on a slam attack.

There's rather a lot of context to consider.

[queen juniper]

Thought it was pretty funny to consider smh

[trim grotto]

Sorry friend but if you're coming into lore chat with a concept it's gonna become the topic of discussion

We like analysing things

[queen juniper]

Atleast i analysed damage receivings💔

[trim grotto]

If you were to take damage numbers as fact - which I wouldn't, but if you did - there is context to consider, such as how the Witness was busy creating an army, and wrangling and carving the closest equivalent to a god we've ever seen whilst attempting to freeze the entire universe - and also dealing with us who keep pestering it.

Or how Oryx was within his Throne World and focused, albeit weakened by the dismantling of the Tribute system

[ivory sluice]

savathun does not see us as an ally anymore

why dont we just crush her ghost

[trim grotto]

Because Immaru escaped because they felt the deal was concluded

[ivory sluice]

when tf did this happen

i thought it was savathun goes, we hold immaru

[trim grotto]

Just this Episode actually
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/pelorus-shell

But to be honest, she never really was our ally. Just... The enemy of our enemy.

[ivory sluice]

this tells me nothing

[trim grotto]

That's sort of the point. Regardless, he escaped this Episode.

[ivory sluice]

lol so sneaky

[eager trout]

Oryx is physically stronger than Rhulk by size alone

[eager trout]

The Witness isn't even physical

Does Mara Sov canonically have...admirers?

[trim grotto]

Sure it is

[trim grotto]

Bit of a niche question, but yes. Sjur Eido went from her assassin to be to her partner.

[dim minnow]

Before she was an Awoken, there were people drawing fanart of her and people even gave her tips

[eager trout]

I mean in the way her real life admirers are

[eager trout]

Wait what? Who or what was she back then?

[jagged badge]

Human

She was a young woman on the Yang Liwei colony ship who made these sensory/neural ‘captures’

The suit peeled away like rind and she was drifting in hard vacuum.

The void boiled the water off her skin. Her body swelled with unchecked pressure until her undersuit forced it to stop. Alarmed cytogel crawled down her throat, hissing emergency oxygen: not enough. Her skin blued with cyanosis. She was bathed in the most profound emptiness.

She recorded all of it at the neural level. The exquisite darkness. The sense of fatal independence from all things. There are those who will give anything to feel that void.```

[trim grotto]

The early pages of the Marasenna will explain this one

[trim grotto]

In a very sane and OH&S friendly way

[jagged badge]

Literally letting the vacuum of space get to her just because people would obviously wanna feel something that risky and unique

"My darling Mara," Osana says, "has—entirely by accident, I'm sure—cultivated a reputation as a minor divinity. Her captures from outside the ship are hot items for barter. People draw fan art. There are… tips left for her."

[eager trout]

Ok, so she's always been...questionable

[trim grotto]

Something something why are Awoken blue

[jagged badge]

That’s such a cool reasoning for that tbh

[eager trout]

That aspect of the Golden Age is such an unexplored territory that should never be explored

[trim grotto]

And yet, it was
People crave that forbidden knowledge

[eager trout]

It was-?

I meant from a real life perspective

[frigid sparrow]

yes hello

you rang

[jagged badge]

I don’t think so

[trim grotto]

Ah, I see.
Seth is quite a good writer. Check out the Marasenna some time.

[cunning gulch]

Wsg

[trim grotto]

Pardon?

[cunning gulch]

I said what’s good

[trim grotto]

I'll take your word for it. Do you have any questions about lore today?

[cunning gulch]

Nah other than needing help for a quicker way to get necrotic grips for my warlock

[trim grotto]

Vex Strike Forces or Novel Decryption from Rahool after resetting his rank once. You may find #✨destiny-discussion or #❓destiny-questions more conducive to gameplay oriented questions or topics.

[tough badge]

so that story kinda felt anti-climatic

savathun big mad

||also did the echo just turn back into light or did we destroy it destroy it?||

[next bobcat]

Idk I liked the mission

[tough badge]

i just kinda expected something to happen lol

felt like there was gonna be a big build up to what would happen next

[next bobcat]

They should have done more with keit’ehr though

Just kind of… died

We also have no explanation and next to no acknowledgement of the tentacles and stuff

[eager trout]

Huh, that's weird

[next bobcat]

But the wizards in the last mission channeling the eyes may show that they’re just projections of the dire taken

Which I still don’t know what makes them different to regular taken

[sick yew]

We know they were made by someone other than Oryx

There is some entity out there with the power to take

They're probably reserving them for thr future

[slim girder]

Good to see savathun properly pissed again

[eager trout]

Frontiers or surprise act 4 of Heresy

[sick yew]

Or neither

[slim girder]

Seeing malok again was quite the suprise. I'm not a hunter but it would have been cool if hunters got the old malok helm when they picked up the head

[sick yew]

It's funny cause just yesterday I was like "yeah so Savathun is pretty much a neutral force atp and thats unlikely we'll ever get another reason to properly fight her

[slim girder]

Welp she's def out for blood now

And i guess she can now see us through worms

[sick yew]

She also sounded rather pathetic in her final line delivery after the mission
"mY brOtHeR dEaD?!?!1?1?"

Like come on Savy ain't no way you didn't have more than enough time to cope with the loss of Oryx

[slim girder]

But bungie definitely accomplished that shake up of the hive pantheon that they wanted.

Yeah the first time we killed him she didn't seem too phased

Xivu was the one freaking out

[sick yew]

She's also delusional as hell if she really thought the Echo would ever come around to her

Man rather wanted us end it rather than fall into Savathuns hands

[slim girder]

I don't think she cared. She just wanted her brother put in the temple she dedicated to him. Mementos

Even if he never came around savathun would have the memory of her brother

[sick yew]

She wanted her brother back
But that brother resented her

[slim girder]

And now we just destroyed it putting oryx in the grave forever. Like the only thing left from him is willbreaker and the dreadnaught

And i guess his actual corpse

[sick yew]

In a sense Oryx never came back to life but that's more metaphorical

If he was the real Oryx his existence was heresy and if he wasn't the real Oryx why even bother

[slim girder]

Him existing in any form is heresy. Whether it was the oryx we know or the echo.

[sick yew]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1119631517287727225/1359260737091928357/Replay_2025-04-08_21-45-54.mp4?ex=67f6d5b5&is=67f58435&hm=bd8f1eedac4cba70656143bb15107032dbfcae3959f07e53e0dffd1eeb45f778&

May our king rest well fr this time

[slim girder]

It was fun. I enjoyed this episode. Only wish we had all the voice lines

[sick yew]

Agreed, the ep was pretty nice

The VA thing is unfortunate yeah

[hazy veldt]

it feels so rushed

no xivu after so much anticipation

savathun losing her shit was fun though

[eager trout]

To be fair, she's lived for billions of years and Oryx's death happened like 10 years ago, so for her it's like that happened yesterday, at most

[frigid sparrow]

After thinking about it a bit more like yeah what the fuck was the point of xivu showing up in person and wrecking the dreadnaught if she was just not gonna do anything else lmao

Aura farms at the beginning of the act and then dips

Not even a voice line (unvoiced or not) for when the voice of xivu arath drops in

Man for how scuffed revenant is the episode at least felt like it wrapped up loose ends lmao

At most the only loose threads from there are eramis (who can feasibly be passed off gone gone) and skolas (who's really likely just a figurehead for the scorn to justify their inclusion in later stories), meanwhile echoes sets up a new villain and vex collective that'll most certainly return and heresy just sets a new precedent for savathun in the future, barely progresses Xivu's character, and still leaves the taken god a mystery and the dread further unexplored

[sick yew]

Yet she was really fine with all that until just yesterday

She wasn't crying her eyes out over him before

But she is now

[hazy veldt]

Xivu is fraud of century istg

be a looming threat for years
demolish torobatl
never show up after
wrathborn
ur sister becomes most important hive character and has entire dlc
ur brother has been revived in form of echo
scream a lot
don’t show up anyways
I am mountain yip-yap session
still did not face guardian
flee

[frigid sparrow]

The way I've seen it describes is that the echo of navigation is someone who recognized the heresy of his own being, a testament against the sword logic, and something, someone that could be broken free from the dogma that it provided. To show the truth.

[hazy veldt]

Ah also be banished from ur own throne

[dim minnow]

maybe Savathun gaining the Light changed her more than she thinks

[frigid sparrow]

Savathun saw the value in an oryx that could be "uncorrupted" by the sword logic dogma

Saw the brother she loved

[dim minnow]

back in Shadowkeep, she was actively making sure Oryx's bloodline would be wiped out

[frigid sparrow]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/GkF5QlQsX9A

[hazy veldt]

Then she decided to revive him with ghost

[eager trout]

That's the thing about war. Sometimes it's not about reaching a goal, but rather the goal is the war itself.

[eager trout]

"I am mountain"? Cabal devour mountains. She has set herself up.

[frigid sparrow]

I dunno, that wizard seemed to have the ritual goal in mind pretty often

[hazy veldt]

There was monologue in heresy where she said “i am mountain upon which swords break”

Or smth like that

[eager trout]

Time for the Cabal to eat that mountain then

[hazy veldt]

Like damn her sister who is god of lies and cunning faced guardian INFINITE more times than god of WAR

Because god of WAR could not find balls to square up to guardian once

this is sad actually

[slim elk]

Hypocrisy be the name of the game for the Hive

Even we got infected by it. Apparently no one took guarding the Witch Queens ghost seriously and he escaped. Now we can't just use him as a stress ball and deal with them permanently

[little gorge]

the cabal who famously said that before xivu decimated their planet?

SCREAMS LIKE A CHOIR AS THEIR MOUNTAINS TREMBLED, SCREAMS LIKE A CHOIR AS THEIR SEAS BOILED

[slim girder]

Kinda wish that final mission had taken place in oryxs throne room.
The regicide room.

Since the episode started I was hoping that we'd go back there. Bummed we didn't

[lofty badge]

oof

i hope we see dire taken again in future dlcs since the god behind them is still out there