📚lore-discussion

[sick yew]

But it aint over yet, not knowing shit now doesnt mean it wont be explained later down the line

Hell maybe Bungie themselves dont even know yet

[hazy veldt]

mark my words

in next 2 years

we will find out that the nine can manipulate time

https://tenor.com/view/jo-jos-bizarre-adventure-golden-wind-diavolo-epitaph-king-crimson-gif-14487939

[sick yew]

mark my words
In the next 2 years there wont be a Destiny 2 anymore
Game shuts down after Frontiers

[hazy veldt]

realistic approach

[sick yew]

Uhm acktschually Epitaph doesnt manipulate time

[hazy veldt]

i implied that i see the future

[sick yew]

Oh

Welp

Something something bites the dust time reversal this never happened

Wait fuck Mandom would have been a better reference no need to reset the whole ass day

[hazy veldt]

i refuse to believe that elsie brays lore and shattered suns are in the same game

written by same people

[sick yew]

Destiny is a very versatile universe

[hazy veldt]

istg shattered suns itself it worthy of being a movie script

its just that good

interestingly enough i think that animated series would actually attract millions of people to d2

[sick yew]

Give it the Arcane treatment eh?

[hazy veldt]

i almost wanted to mention arcane BUT

bungie budget and riot budget in the same sentence

is ridiculous

[sick yew]

I agree that Destiny could fit many many shows into its lore

Tho I doubt itll happen but im open for surprises

[hazy veldt]

they aint got enough employees to layoff

to pull that

[sick yew]

[torpid flint]

I mean... technically sony budget soo

Look at spider verse

[sick yew]

Yeah good lucky trying to convince Sony to this lmfao

[torpid flint]

Oh I know, it's NEVER gonna happen

But it would look pretty sick in that art style

[sick yew]

I doubt theyd animate it
More likely typical 3d cgi like in the cutscenes

Would fit the overall visual style of destiny

[torpid flint]

Ehh just let someone give it the ASTARTES youtube animation. Maybe bungie won't send em a cease and desist letter

[sick yew]

Unfortunately Games Workshop scooped that guy up before Bungie could

But yeah

[torpid flint]

Smart move on GW's part tho. But would be neat to see more fan animations like that in popular video games

[sick yew]

Its almost certain that he was involved with the making of the Secret Level episode

[torpid flint]

Even tho it took that guy like, what, a year to make that YouTube animation

[sick yew]

Cause hes like one fucking guy and the quality of said animation is on big studio level

[torpid flint]

Watching the choreography, definitely. It fits the overall style he went for in astartes

[sick yew]

They had to have him consult or whatever if not outright help animating

[torpid flint]

Most likely consult. That animation was definitely on his level tho, but he most likely helped craft the overall scenes

My only issue with that episode... WHY IS IT NOT HDR?! Like, it would've looked soo much better

[sick yew]

[torpid flint]

Maybe if Amazon reruns Secert Level, we could get D2. Doubtful, but that's the only place we see it. If it did happen, I'd like if they did it off Elsie Bray's timeline interaction

[sick yew]

Well season 2 has been greenlit

[torpid flint]

There's just so much we don't know about that lore. I think we only saw the Dark Future if I remember.

[sick yew]

If they make a d2 episode I doubt it would be a major lore related one

More like a little self contained side story

Just some random unnamed guardians doing some stuff

End the episode with some kind of cryptic implications thatll boil down to "discovery of a golden age miracle" or something related to a certain faction

But nothing groundbreaking

[torpid flint]

Break the entire story with "ahh you're awake now, what gibberish was this one muttering"
In clovis's voice

[hazy veldt]

anything clovis related gets R rating on the spot

or even M

[ember storm]

It’ll be half an hour of all the corny live action trailers of guardians going “he’s right behind me isn’t he” to a taken Minotaur or going “well that just happened” after being hit by a warsat and then rezzed

[sick yew]

[hot cypress]

did we see the cabal for the first time before d1 vanilla?

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/crimson-days

[hot cypress]

oohh i see

[ember storm]

Ghost pulls his information from field reports on the cabal before we personally see him

[hot cypress]

i see that

what about the vex didnt our ghost basically analyzed them from some clovis database? there was a whole mission and everything

isnt that the first time we saw the vex?

like the guardians collectively not just us as the player

[ember storm]

No and no

We specifically go to activate devices that other guardians used to have to track vex

[hot cypress]

right thank you!

[torpid flint]

Cayde was the only saving grace of those trailers

[bleak crow]

Why is the Witch Queen title gumshoe?
my friend said it had something to do with the Witch Queen lore

[jagged badge]

It’s old-timey slang for a detective

And the idea was we were working with Ikora and the Hidden to work out the mystery of how Savathûn got the Light

[bleak crow]

lowkey kinda wish it was something more hive themed, like Lucent or something

not fucking gumshoe 😭

[trim grotto]

To be fair, Savathûn has unironically used the term "humdinger" before.

[bleak crow]

when???

[jagged badge]

"With this tribute, I shall undertake a mighty work. A real humdinger of a scheme. I'm going to refinance my entire existence. I'm going to move from an existential economy based on the accumulation of violence to an existential economy based on the accumulation of secrets and the tribute of failing-to-understand-me. I shall name this tribute of failing-to-understand IMBARU, for it shall be as formless as the mist."

[bleak crow]

😭🙏

[torpid flint]

Brings a Tear to my eyes

[hazy veldt]

hold up so eramis just grabbed the echo and left to “reclaim riis”

or maybe I understood that wrong

[empty fern]

Pretty much

It chose her so

She went off to rebuild Ross

[hazy veldt]

uhhh

if the cutscene did not lie

which it could bc it might have been a design choice

riis is fucking FINALIZED

there is no way in hell eramis makes it inhabitable again with just an echo

[empty fern]

She could try

[hollow hinge]

Poor Ross

[hazy veldt]

my favourite shotgun

[empty fern]

Too whirled

[hazy veldt]

rosswalker

[hollow hinge]

It's been made clear that the Witness didn't have the power to finalise anything without the Veil or the Traveller

So no

[hazy veldt]

I could make some arguments to prove that riis could be finalized

[eager trout]

I mean, it can always just...pull it apart

[hollow hinge]

In ruins after the Whirlwind? Absolutely
But I'm sure the echo can handle it

[hazy veldt]

but its 3:40 and I wanna sleep

Yk what

[hollow hinge]

You can't because the Witness didn't have the power to do so

[hazy veldt]

I had a rant about those statues and I brought arguments

[hollow hinge]

Otherwise it would've finalised earth or even Sol and then done the rest of the universe with no one to stop them

[hazy veldt]

Just read what points I’ve brought maybe itll get thru

[hollow hinge]

It's a nice theory but no

The Final Shape was only possible with both the Traveller's light and with the Veil

That was made abundantly clear

[hazy veldt]

final shape on universal scale*

[hollow hinge]

No, the final shape

[hazy veldt]

I’ll die on that hill

[hollow hinge]

Period

Then you're dead

Sorry for your loss

[hazy veldt]

no im not

the opinion endures

[hollow hinge]

@sick yew and @trim grotto will hopefully talk some sense into you later

I'm off to bed tho, up in less than 5 hours

[hazy veldt]

I literally discussed it with Alex

like entire convo was with him

[hollow hinge]

Ik, I have eyes

[hazy veldt]

crazy

[dim minnow]

the Witness could reshape an entire world and its people pretty quickly

as stated in Entelechy

however, doing that without the Traveler and Veil would have taken a very long time

likely impossible given the infinite expanse of the universe

the Pale Heart was a means of doing it to the entire universe on a whim

[hazy veldt]

I WAS RIGHT

[dim minnow]

of course, it is unknown if what the Witness did there was exactly the same as enacting the Final Shape on a smaller scale

[hazy veldt]

I knew those statues looked too weird

[hazy veldt]

Also is that lore entry

or what precisely is that because I have to read it

[dim minnow]

it's from the TFS CE book, Entelechy

you should be able to find a transcription of in in this channel's pins

I don't recall when exactly in the book that passage shows up

[bleak crow]

How does Crow have a giant fire axe?

[slim girder]

Saladin gave it to him

[dim minnow]

Lord Saladin gave it to him

mods, delete retro's message

[slim girder]

[dim minnow]

jokes aside, to elaborate on what retro said, Saladin gave it to Crow during Season of the Risen

[hazy veldt]

Oh, appreciate it

[dim minnow]

basically, Crow had this moral dilemma because we were capturing Lucent Brood lieutenants and using Psions and Cabal tech to scour their minds for intel

[hazy veldt]

Ah that one time when he killed the psion out of pity to hive?

[dim minnow]

while Saladin assured Crow the process wasn't cruel to the captured Hive, Crow still had qualms about it

[dim minnow]

in Crow's defense, that was 100% an accident

how was he supposed to know that doing that would kill the guy

[hazy veldt]

[dim minnow]

anyways, Saladin was trying to teach Crow some important lessons on mercy and such

in the end, once we were done with our mission, Crow decided to unhook the psion from the Psiorium machine since we didn't really need it at that point

however, for some reason, doing that caused the machine to go haywire and it fucking killed the poor guy

so Caiatl was not very happy since she already stated we were on thin ice for massacring her troops in the opening to WQ

so she was pretty much going to kill Crow as punishment, however, Saladin stepped in and offered his life instead

so, Caiatl decided to make Saladin a Bracus on her war council, a fate that Zavala would have had if we had lost to Ignovun during Chosen

though Saladin would rise through the ranks pretty quickly and he would become a Valus

and he would prove to be a very useful member of her war council

anyways, after that incident, Saladin gave Crow an Iron lord medallion and his Iron Lord axe to encourage Crow to learn from it

so yeah, that's the long version

[bleak crow]

I want a giant axe

[dim minnow]

we used to be able to wield it back in D1

[bleak crow]

god damn it

[dim minnow]

Rise of Iron is probably the least referenced D1 thing in D2

most we got was the retuen of part of the RoI COsmodrome for the Thunderlord quest (which was only avalible during two specific times)

[slim girder]

As much as I dislike Saladin that lore entry of him fighting in the cabal arena with his axe and rising through the ranks was pretty cool.

[dim minnow]

that Acts of Mercy lore book was great as well

[bleak crow]

Does the witness die in the 12 man activity or the raid

[dim minnow]

Excision

in the raid, it gets its ass beat so it has to flee and relinquish its hold over the Traveler

Excision literally takes place right after the raid is completed

[slim girder]

Iconoclasm is where it retreated to the monolith.
The raid we basically cut its head off so it fled.
And excision we dealt the final blow unmaking it for good.

[dim minnow]

like, the moment the Witness was kicked off the monolith, we brought in everyone to make sure it doesn't get the chance to recover

[dim minnow]

it didn't really retreat in Iconoclasm, we were the ones who had to flee

but we did hurt it in Iconoclasm

[slim girder]

Right. I always thought it was that when we injured it, it went on a rampage and then afterwards since it was hurt it went back to the monolith for safety

[dim minnow]

the momolith was where the Witness was holding the Traveler captive

where it would enact the Final Shape

I'm also pretty sure there is at least a 3-day gap between Iconoclasm and Salvation's Edge

[slim girder]

The monolith IS the witness. That's what I mean when I say we cut its head off.

[zinc kite]

Do all the echos have names associated to them? like how the one for this episode is called the "Echo of Navigation", what are the other two echos called if they have names?

[trim grotto]

The first with the Conductor is known as the Echo of Command. The second with Fikrul/Eramis wasn't explicitly named, but we've been going by Echo of Riis, for obvious reasons.

[zinc kite]

Ah ok, Thank you so much

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/detective-dick-gumshoe-aw-shucks-gee-gosh-gif-17010134

very rude

[uneven idol]

Did Eris return power to Savathun after killing Savathun to gain strength to banish Xivu Arath, did Eris lose hive power when she returned to human form or does she still have this power?

[dim minnow]

she no longer has it

[jagged badge]

So Eris gained Savathûn’s stored power from the Sword Logic (that Savathûn couldn’t use because she didn’t have her worm and didn’t practice that logic). But in choosing a non-combative approach to facing Xivu, she denied the Sword Logic. So despite using the power for the spell that banished Xivu from her Throne, she lost it immediately afterwards

She did, however, retain her Throne World

[uneven idol]

Thanks for answering!

[rose marsh]

Is the echo of navigation oryx?

[sick yew]

No

It merely projects/assumes a memory of a younger Oryx

The real Oryx is rotting at the bottom of Titan

[rose marsh]

Who’s the god of war

[sick yew]

Xivu Arath

His sister

[trim grotto]

The Loud One™️

[hazy veldt]

Basically oryx but just after he learned taking, also echo only got copy of his consciousness but THE oryx stays dead

[fluid peak]

Who is incidentally rather quiet at the moment :P

[hazy veldt]

we don’t talk about that

[fluid peak]

Neither does she

[hazy veldt]

although it is quite annoying

let’s pretend xivu got telepathic abilities and sends words directly to our brain

[fluid peak]

Erm plothole if she's a telepath why doesn't she blow us up with her mind

[hazy veldt]

she ain’t got enough brainpower let’s be real

[ember storm]

I mean

That’s what happens to wrathborn

If Xivu just like popped a cryptolith in the tower she’d win immediately

[trim grotto]

The Praxic would burn the Tower to the ground if that's what it took

[hazy veldt]

he indeed is taking care of business

[jagged badge]

This would be better in #🏆destiny-media for future reference

[vernal crystal]

Oryx is just petty

[cunning gulch]

Right so my brain is totally melted after today because I grinded iron banner got every peice of armor for all three classes then Got barrow so I’m done using my brain for the day

[trim grotto]

I can tell, because this is the lore channel

[cunning gulch]

Give me the lore on why maras nose is so small

[trim grotto]

Genetics go brrr

[cunning gulch]

lol

[jagged badge]

Shrink ray

[cunning gulch]

Never touch iron banner till next time it comes back losing 20 matches in a row so to the matchmaking drove me nearly mad

That and they need to fix there servers so it don’t crash mid match

I would like to know more lore on mara and know more about her she is the one character that’s shrouded in mystery

[jagged badge]

Do you want to be directed on something to read or do you want a summary?

Because I would recommend reading the Marasenna

But I can summarise if you’d prefer

[cunning gulch]

Is that a book

[jagged badge]

A lore book yeah. Available to read in game or on the Ishtar Collective website

[cunning gulch]

I see which book can i purchase that has that in it

I have the first two grims

That gives lore

[cunning gulch]

Yeah plz do

[jagged badge]

So Mara was once a human, and because of a frozen rabbit embryo killing a man, she decided to have her family leave on an Exodus ship - the Exodus Green, otherwise known as the Yang Liwei. This ship got caught in the clash between the Traveler and the Black Fleet, and the resulting singularity, or kugelblitz, sorta just removed all the passengers from existence. Until Mara Sov somehow recreated them as the Awoken

Mara pretended not to be the first Awoken though, and in this pocket dimension they found themselves in, called the Distributary, she manipulated Awoken politics behind the scenes, to sow dissent and a desire to return home to Sol to help humanity

[cunning gulch]

Interesting

So she didn’t want that type of life basically

[trim grotto]

You really love specifying the embryo every time

[jagged badge]

Of course

It’s the most important bit

[cunning gulch]

I always liked her character I did like eris but she got impailed

[hazy veldt]

Not like it killed her though

[trim grotto]

I mean
It did

[hazy veldt]

Not like

killed killed her

the fact is she ain’t dead

that’s most important

also mara died twice canonically

But second time im not sure she allowed herself to be taken or killed

that part of lore confuses me kinda

[trim grotto]

The second time was when she destroyed a Pyramid

[hazy veldt]

First time I hear that pyramid ship was destroyed

Apart from travelers impact in lightfall

[trim grotto]

I'd love to dive into this topic but I'm at work and have to go
Bluh

[hazy veldt]

gl anyways

[jagged badge]

[cunning gulch]

lol tbh idk

[eager trout]

What's an enemy who has survived being killed by the Guardians?

Apart from Taniks

[slim elk]

Kelgorath

[slow berry]

Atraks-1

Crota and Oryx both kinda took two kills each if you wanna count that

[trim grotto]

Fikrul. Well, he did die, but he came back thanks to Riven and Uldren.

[slow berry]

Randal the Vandal

[trim grotto]

Eramis

[slow berry]

Technically Sâvathun

[slow berry]

Oh, also Riven, I guess

[trim grotto]

Any of the returned Lucent Hive like Alak-Hul

Zulmak

Various Scorn, including the Scorned Barons

Uldren, technically

Xol

Ghaul, for about twenty seconds.

Kelgorath, about six times now

[trim grotto]

Savathûn, for the record

Right accent, wrong place

[slow berry]

oh my bad, i always forger

[trim grotto]

Changes it from SavaThun to SavaThoon

Automod you goblin

I was making a hilarious joke

Persecution

[slim girder]

Loving the new lore from the books of descent.
"The lord of nothing" sounds like something straight out of a Lovecraft book.

HUGE Cthulhu vibes and I love it.

Really hoping that this ends up being some gargantuan being of the dark or something. I love when destiny makes me feel small compared to other worldly forces.

[eager trout]

I meant characters who "die" by being reduced to 0 HP in-game but actually survived that in lore

[slim elk]

Thats.... every guardian in existence

[trim grotto]

Ah, well, that would have been good to know.
Still... Kelgorath, numerous Lucent Hive with Ghosts, Xol, Ghaul, some Scorn, Zulmak... Eramis wasn't at 0 but still, we did fight her... Atraks-1, Oryx.

[bleak crow]

How did Oryx’s body end up in the Ghost of the Deep dungeon

(I never played King’s Fall to completion btw)

[sick yew]

After we kill him in Kings Fall his body drifts towards Saturn

Titan is also around Saturn so it probably just ended up there by bla bla gravity

[slim elk]

Out of verse, just basically Bungie realizing they could say that happened

[sick yew]

Hm?

[slim elk]

Ah, its pretty long odds even by Destiny standards that Oryxs body would end up on Titan in one piece, and withstand the methane oceans for years without being commented upon.

Last we saw of it was being adrift in Saturn's ring

[sick yew]

I mean one could argue even dead his body was still rather resilient

[slim elk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Saturn

You can probably see the main problem from this pic lol

[sick yew]

That's why I said bla bla gravity

[frigid sparrow]

Suspension of disbelief

Is it absurd that the body of oryx just so happened to land in the methane sea of the furthest moon from Saturn when we coincidentally also had regained access to the same moon very recently? Yeah, sure. But it's just something that needed to happen to set up the dungeon plot

[dim minnow]

Titan was the only Moon of Saturn we've been to at that point (still is) and the dungeon was released on a season surrounding the destination's return

[trim grotto]

Simply put? It fell in.
When Oryx was slain, his corpse drifted off into open space, and the Dreadnaught is above Saturn in the rings. Titan is one of its Moons.

[sick yew]

Is this really how gravity works

I mean he could always have been hit by some asteroid or sum that send his ass off course

[blazing wasp]

Well space works that once you float somewhere, if interrupted you keep floating, so he'd just float until titan passed by and joinked his carcass

could also just have been directed there via an asteroid yes

[trim grotto]

While I'm not exactly an expert in this, I think logically it'd have fallen into Saturn or been caught in the rings. But landing in Titan is cooler.

[sick yew]

Well you are affected by gravity
Saturn being the largest body should probably pull him in especially with his initial direction post kill

[sick yew]

Also did you catch my attempted summary of that portal shenanigans shit you linked me a few days back?

[blazing wasp]

i did forget how big saturns gravitational... field(?) would be

[sick yew]

Comparatively large prob

With how many moons and shit it has

[blazing wasp]

not to mention how big the fuckeri s

[sick yew]

Mhm

[lusty pewter]

Lore wise who’s stronger Xivu(pre banishment) or Oryx? Cause I’ve seen people say its oryx and others say its Xivu.

[slim girder]

Oryx. Xivu worships him like a little sister even before they came to sol

[trim grotto]

I did not

[sick yew]

hangon

@trim grotto

[trim grotto]

As usual, it depends on the context. Both are incredibly dangerous. I wouldn't really say either are objectively stronger.

[trim grotto]

Seems about right
Though Lucky Lavinia was no longer City affiliated after the exile, so she wasn't really a Cryptarch anymore

[sick yew]

So we have little clue about virtually anything concrete

We dont know where it leads, what the hive were doing there, what in gods name the "eyes" are or where Lavinia went

[trim grotto]

Well, the following entry is heavily suggested to have been Savathûn

The Bone Witch

[sick yew]

Savathun? She pulled some stuff here that far back?

[trim grotto]

She seems to have... Intercepted Lavinia.

Somehow.

[sick yew]

huh

So do you think Lavinias assumption that the portal leads to the nine is accurate?

They could have merely used the portals to try and materialize themselves

[trim grotto]

I don't think so. The Nine aren't a place unless you call the entire solar system a place.

Maybe she would have become like them. Who knows? Or ended up in the Nine Realms.

But the... Nine Realms... Well, it's hard to say how permanent that is.

[sick yew]

The nine realms huh
Didnt know Destiny and norse mythology are connected

[sleek matrix]

Then what is prophecy

Or the dares stuff

[sick yew]

Thats just a realm that they have control over

[trim grotto]

Dares doesn't count. Prophecy is within the Haul.

What I mean is, the Nine realm is... Something they can form and mold and fashion as they see fit. It isn't etched in stone, it's loose as sand.

[sleek matrix]

It exists but it doesn't

[trim grotto]

In a way. It may be there today, but not tomorrow.

[sick yew]

Do we know if the Nine considered helping us against the Witness?

[sleek matrix]

A few are with us

And a few are against us

[sick yew]

They havent pulled shit since basically prophecy

[sleek matrix]

Yea

They been silent

Till now

[sick yew]

I mean the Nine arent paracausal so they probably have nothing against the Witness anyway but idk

[sleek matrix]

The rite on nine event should have new lore

[sick yew]

I doubt Rite will tie into any lore

Pantheon didnt either

[sleek matrix]

Idk it seems like a good opportunity to have something

It doesnt have to be big

[sick yew]

[trim grotto]

Even the Nine wouldn't go that far.
I don't believe so, but I'd need to check some things. I won't today, because I'm in bed and it's after 11PM

Wait I misread that

Nevertheless

[sick yew]

Your timezone is fake Mael

Its 2pm

The sun is up, get to work

[trim grotto]

It's Friday
My work week is finished

[sick yew]

Your job might be but your real work is the lore

Duh

[trim grotto]

That'd be nice

[sick yew]

Didnt Bungie write out a lore nerd position or something

Ages ago ik

But still

I bet you get to work for 3 months at least before they lay you off

[trim grotto]

And it was America only

[sick yew]

Wait you aint from the states?

[trim grotto]

What no

[sick yew]

Homie I know nothing about you

[trim grotto]

I'm an Aussie Stralian
I lived in England for 6ish years and got back to Australia a couple years ago

[sick yew]

Best choice you ever made

[trim grotto]

I own a house now

[sick yew]

Sick, ill drop by if I ever make my way down under

[trim grotto]

If you want to find me just think of the Australian Rick and Morty skit

[sick yew]

Wait you mean the old old one?

[sleek matrix]

Are there big spiders there ?

I need to know

[sick yew]

They keep them as pets

[sleek matrix]

[trim grotto]

Uh
Yes?
I think

[sick yew]

The badly drawn shit

I forgot about that stuff

[trim grotto]

Yeah I suppose so
Come on down to Bendigo
I don't have any cubes but I do have copious amounts of Yorkshire tea in a pot

[sick yew]

[lofty badge]

are red colored cabal like in the EDZ ment to be Red Legion remnants or just red colored hostile Cabal who might be lead by Otzot?

[ember storm]

theyre the same thing basically

only reason a cabal wouldnt want to be with caiatl or shadow legion is because their loyalty lies w/ the red legion and otzot

[lofty badge]

fair, Otzot also seems to have acess to cloning tech

[ember storm]

all well-off cabal basically do

[lofty badge]

true, expcet for our cabal allies it seems

[eager trout]

https://tenor.com/view/oryx-taking-himself-destiny-oryx-taken-king-gif-17498021

How did he drift if this happened?

[jagged badge]

That’s not King’s Fall

That’s the end of the Taken King campaign. Where we don’t kill him and he uses that move to temporarily escape us

https://youtu.be/vApOF26dqR4

[ember storm]

note how that's not king's fall (raids do not have animated cutscenes)

https://tenor.com/view/ratio-oryx-kings-fall-the-taken-king-destiny2-gif-26749928

[toxic ridge]

wasn't lavinia the apprentice cryptarch who wanted to investigate the nine who ended up meeting savathun or something?

I vaguely remember reading that lore book but I don't remember where I saw she met savathun

[sick yew]

Thats what we were referencing yes

[strong tendon]

Do you think we will keith the subjugator this episode or they’ll leave them for a future thing?

They seemed to have shifted focus from them now over to xivu and savathun

[bleak crow]

Like it literally just drifted through space?

[sick yew]

Keith?

[bleak crow]

Savathûn*

[sick yew]

Wait is Keith the resonant knife guy

John stabby stabby

[bleak crow]

John stabby stabby 😭😭

[sick yew]

What else you want me to call em

Bro shows up, tanks a headshot from Trust like the baller he is and stabs the shit outta Eris

[bleak crow]

oh that guy

[sick yew]

Idk if its them theyre referring to with "Keith"

[bleak crow]

Wait is he the same subjugator that we saw at the end of act 2

I think he meant kill

[sick yew]

We saw a Subjugator at the end of act 2?

[bleak crow]

Idk, whatever act that stupid painting boss fight was

[sick yew]

I dont recall there being a Subjugator

[ember storm]

Yes it did appear after the siblings have their chat and we have to run away

[bleak crow]

This shit

[ember storm]

It is tied to the dire taken and all the tentacles

It showed up at the end of act 1 and 2

Hasn’t really done anything yet

People called Maya a bad villain when we got this shit to deal with

[bleak crow]

I never really understood but how the FUCK is Eris still alive

She was literally stabbed

[ember storm]

They’ve literally never been referenced in the story once beyond drifter calling it a thing

[ember storm]

Did you

Not pay attention to the story

She has a throne world

[bleak crow]

Nope

[ember storm]

That’s like literally the entire plot of the season

[blazing wasp]

are you familiar with the concept of throne worlds

[bleak crow]

nope

[blazing wasp]

i get your name should imply otherwise but

ah ok

[ember storm]

And get you call yourself a Savathun fan

[bleak crow]

[ember storm]

WQ destination is literally Savathun’s throne world

[bleak crow]

Suddenly this isn’t a safe space

[strong tendon]

Yes keith is the subjugator it’s real name is just too hard to remember how to spell lmao

[blazing wasp]

Throne worlds are basically a uh... how to put it

[ember storm]

You are to deliver a written apology essay

[blazing wasp]

a pocket dimension?

[sick yew]

Resonant Knife

[ember storm]

Respawn points earned through sword logic

[bleak crow]

[sick yew]

And I think we'll get to kill em at the end of the act but lets wait and see@strong tendon

[ember storm]

Eris earned hers when she killed Savathun as a temporary hive god

[sick yew]

She used our power aswell

[strong tendon]

Keit’ehr is the same subjugator no?

[bleak crow]

I came back into destiny at the start of this episode

[ember storm]

It was the physical act of slicing open Savathun

[sick yew]

Guess so

[strong tendon]

See I literally had to look up how to spell that

[bleak crow]

I didn’t know she was a hive god

[ember storm]

It cut a tear into the ascendant realm

[blazing wasp]

and apparently by sending an eviction notice to xivu? regarding her convo with oryx

[blazing wasp]

was as in past tense, yes

[strong tendon]

I like how every single character this season is just bullying xivu

[ember storm]

Effectively took Xivu’s throne world credit score

[bleak crow]

neat

[ember storm]

It’s not Xivu’s throne world, that ones like all doom meat castle

[blazing wasp]

during season of the witch she temporarily ascended into the "god of vengeance"

[bleak crow]

deserved??

[blazing wasp]

we tithed to her and she grew in power

[strong tendon]

100%. Act like a child, get treated like a child

[ember storm]

I find her design a tad disappointing tbh

[strong tendon]

It’s not as grand as oryx and savathun yeah

[ember storm]

Why is she skinnier than a stock red bar knight

Literally that’s my only issue

[bleak crow]

Do we ever see these worms anywhere?

[ember storm]

She’s as skinny as a thrall

[sick yew]

Yes

[ember storm]

Those are worm gods

[sick yew]

We even killed one once

[ember storm]

We have dealt with multiple

[ember storm]

[sick yew]

Good old Xol, Will of Thousands

[bleak crow]

why did I miss all the cool stuff 😭

[strong tendon]

But maybe she’ll go through some sort of transformation some time down the line. Like auryx did into oryx. And savathun did into her lightbearer self.

[ember storm]

Vow of the disciple is literally right there

You find the mother of all worms hooked up to Rhulk’s doomsday machine

Xol was a small fry

[bleak crow]

never did it

[strong tendon]

Xol a bitch

[ember storm]

Also he faked his death and that boss fight sucks

[bleak crow]

don’t have anyone to do it with

[blazing wasp]

two are dead
one was killed by... aurash? he ascended to oryx the taken king afterwards
we killed xol, will of a thousand in warmind (the weakest worm god iirc)
xol later on turned into a gun and was sustained through us killing with the gun

[sick yew]

More might be dead we dont know what theyre up to

[strong tendon]

Who remains? Eir, ur and yul?

[bleak crow]

I thought the entire plot of the season was oryx being “back”

[ember storm]

Auryx

[ember storm]

That’s the premise

[blazing wasp]

thanks i keep forgetting his name

[sick yew]

Hes not really back more like a projection of him manifest through the Echo

But its not the real Oryx cause that guy is rotting at the bottom of Titan

[ember storm]

The plotline is us dealing with that through Eris and her throne world

[strong tendon]

There are multiple plot lines this episode and they’re all pretty solid.

[ember storm]

It is as it’s called, a literal echo

It is not the original thing

[blazing wasp]

Several plot points are going on, one being that, eris' throne world is one of the shared "biggest plot point"

[ember storm]

Cept the dread

Those guys are boring

[strong tendon]

Yeah the dread are just. There I guess

[ember storm]

Sundered was basically the only lore we’re gonna get for a while I’m guessing

[strong tendon]

Whatever’s controlling them is interesting though.

[ember storm]

They’re controlling themselves

[bleak crow]

with a massive fucking hole in his chest

“Do you have any ibuprofen? I have a headache” looking ass

[ember storm]

The dire taken are getting controlled by something new

The dread are trying to take advantage of it

[sick yew]

We did blow his heart out quite literally

[strong tendon]

That’s what I meant

[blazing wasp]

we give love a bad name

[ember storm]

God king of the hive gets surprised by the shrapnel in his chest when he summons ogres whose sole purpose is to explode

[frigid sparrow]

They build up the dread for multiple episodes with them working under the Shadow legion and eventually branching off alongside the taken to form their own masters and then that gets dropped when there's an actual dread big bad in the episode for hive stuff

[ember storm]

They’re fucking BORING

[blazing wasp]

Sword logic isnt exactly known for its elaborate strategies

actually isnt the sword logic known for not having that

[ember storm]

Shadow legion and dread had literally zero reason to be in revenant

[strong tendon]

God why couldn’t the other 2 episodes be this good. Echoes was playable. Revenant sucked ass

[frigid sparrow]

They'd be cooler if Bungie actually WROTE THEM IN MORE

[ember storm]

All we get is a handwave “oh they’re looking for the echoes,,, are they doing anything? no”

[frigid sparrow]

Shadow legion is lame though

[ember storm]

they just sit in Fikrul’s playhouse doing jack shit

Because haha funny bat

[bleak crow]

Agreed

[strong tendon]

Dread have literally been in every story this year and have had minimal relevance in all of them

[frigid sparrow]

Like if we got a little bit of advancement on the yirix/otzot story then they'd have a chance to be cool but alas

[bleak crow]

I was convinced for a while that the only reason the shadow legion was created was so we have a reason to keep killing cabal

[strong tendon]

Yeah because the red legion ain’t shit

[bleak crow]

Were they ever

(Except red war)

[frigid sparrow]

I mean, they're pretty much just repurposed loyalists and clones

[strong tendon]

Spire of stars? Kinda? I think that was the last time

[frigid sparrow]

And the red legion sected themselves off into becoming pirates if they didn't give any allegiance

[bleak crow]

When did the cabal become chill with us? Wasn’t it season of the risen? Idk, it was season of the something

[strong tendon]

Chosen was the start of it

[ember storm]

Well since the red legion (their main military force) put all their eggs in one basket during the red war, the empire back on torobotl was basically left severely weakened

Which Xivu saw as free real estate so their homeworld is basically just gone now

[bleak crow]

I miss red war

[strong tendon]

We gon take it back

[ember storm]

Yeah nah

Hive don’t really

Occupy

[strong tendon]

Another sweeping blow to xivu arath

[ember storm]

She’s not on torobotl

They don’t take over

They kill everything and leave a smoldering pile of ash

Probably not even a physical planet left

[strong tendon]

War moon’d it up

[bleak crow]

Were the hive ever actually chill with us?
I know they helped us in the 12 man activity

[frigid sparrow]

Tbh terrible strategy on her end

[ember storm]

No

[strong tendon]

I think that is literally the only time.

[ember storm]

That was literally just Savathun

Lucent hive are still following her orders to take control of the pale heart

[bleak crow]

I thought there was hive guardians there

[strong tendon]

And yeah it was just savathun acting in her own interests

[bleak crow]

oh ok

[ember storm]

Nameless npcs under her command

[frigid sparrow]

be hive god that feeds off war
Decimate an entire race of warmongers
Doesn't supply herself with endless war by letting them recuperate
Smh my head

[ember storm]

Literally only because Savathun knew it was then or never

She wants to gentrify the light

[strong tendon]

Oh wait luzaku is chill with us

Forgot about her

[ember storm]

That’s not the hive

That is one hive singular

[strong tendon]

It’s A hive

[ember storm]

And she’s a Lightbearer so she’s effectively not even a hive

[bleak crow]

Luzaku is just chill like that tho

[blazing wasp]

Savathun has her own interests in mind, obviously she wants to stop the witness

[ember storm]

Trying to make peace with actual hive with worms is physically impossible

[bleak crow]

Oh sorry I mean “this one” is just chill like that

[strong tendon]

Luzaku the goat

[ember storm]

This one has no modeled legs

This one is incapable of walking

[strong tendon]

Who needs to walk when you can float ominously and spit fax

[bleak crow]

Is it justified that I hate sloane, she literally doesn’t do anything

[frigid sparrow]

I don't like luzaku because they should've just used fynch and his guardian instead that way Bungie actually uses the characters they make instead of leaving them to rot while they introduce new ones who will eventually be left to rot while new ones are created

[bleak crow]

as of rn

[strong tendon]

I hope she ends up becoming like the hive equivalent of caiatl and Mithrax.

[ember storm]

Savathun finds Luzaku amusing

[strong tendon]

Nah. Honestly I think she’s really annoying this episode and she doesn’t even physically speak.

[ember storm]

She would never for a second genuinely let her forces rebel against her

[bleak crow]

the whole thing of Fynch is he didn’t wanna revive his guardian

[frigid sparrow]

Well maybe they could. Y'know, advance that storyline?

[ember storm]

I don’t really see that

[blazing wasp]

Shes been going around offscreen fighting iirc? she did in deep, unsure this season

[ember storm]

Fynch’s knight would never switch sides

The entire point of Fynch’s character is realizing he made a bad choice and trying to worm his was out of it

[strong tendon]

In Deep I liked Sloane. It might just be because of her missing voice lines but I do not care about her this episode.

[bleak crow]

actually, can ghosts actually even do anything on their own? Like can they even defend themselves?

[ember storm]

They can control weapons if they’re accessible through technology

Sloane’s ghost has retractable knives

Drifter’s ghost just flew itself through someone’s head once

[frigid sparrow]

They can defend themselves once and not again

[blazing wasp]

they generally dont because it makes them a target
but sloanes ghost fought, and fynch killed his own guardian

[strong tendon]

Yeeee but those lucent ghosts are spiky boys

[bleak crow]

Oliver ghost

Have we ever even seen his ghost before? Like did we see that happen?

[strong tendon]

His ghost can’t speak anymore because of an incident that I can’t remember the specifics of

I just know it’s mute

[bleak crow]

wait so if a ghost is damaged can it not just fix itself? or since it’s technically tech, just get a tech repair guy to somehow fix it?

[strong tendon]

Ah wait he modified it using parts of dead ghosts while trapped on a distant ice planet where there were light eating shadow monsters roaming about.

This let the ghost see and emit light in spectrums other ghosts can’t but left it mute

[bleak crow]

#fuckyouinparticular

[strong tendon]

The best part about that story is that drifter had to go out and hunt his dead crewmates ghosts and murder them to get the parts

[bleak crow]

when the fuck did this happen 😭

Season of the drifter?

[strong tendon]

It’s in lorebooks it wasn’t like shown in game or anything

[bleak crow]

I hate how Bungo will have insane lore and then just put it in lore text or in the books

[strong tendon]

Season of the drifter gambit prime armour sets lore I think

[bleak crow]

Has anyone ever managed to take literally every single piece of lore text in the game and put them in chronological order?

[frigid sparrow]

No, because that's absurd

[bleak crow]

:((

[frigid sparrow]

Every lore book, every weapon, ship, sparrow tab, every armor tab, all of it's not gonna happen in actual chronological order

[strong tendon]

It’s 10+ years of lore

Closest thing to that are the byf videos and they’re hours long

And it doesn’t go into niche, specific stories or anything

[bleak crow]

Isn’t that 10 hour lore video outdated as fuck?

[strong tendon]

It doesn’t cover anything from final shape onwards so yeah kinda

[sleek matrix]

Nothing big has happened since then

It can be summed up pretty easily

[eager trout]

It's the cutscene that was shown in the intro to Heresy in the part where it's mentioned Oryx was defeated "using his own logic"

[ember storm]

Yeah that’s a basic recap that’s not 100% visually accurate

None of it is new footage

The scene of oryx “dying” is from the taken king campaign where he very much is not dead

[jagged badge]

She

[sick yew]

Fr?

[jagged badge]

Subjugators are all fem

[sick yew]

Huh

The more you know

I would have guessed theyd be one fem one male

[ember storm]

They’re not exact genetic copies of Rhulk

[jagged badge]

An employee mentioned it before Final Shape and Savathûn confirmed it in Sundered Doctrine pretty much

[strong tendon]

True actually

Echoes and Revenant. Big nothing burgers

[sick yew]

Ayo dont diss Failsafe like that

[sleek matrix]

Failsafe be

[sick yew]

Die

Failsafe slander is not tolerated

I sentence you to doing the vow jumping puzzle without any double jump, abilities, ammo for any weapon or sword usage of any kind

Also 0 mob

[sleek matrix]

[tough badge]

Is eris turning bad?

She be doin like maniacal laughs and stuff

[sick yew]

Shes been doing that for a while tbh

[tough badge]

Ok so nothing new got it

[sick yew]

I wouldnt be worried personally

I doubt she'd turn evil on her own

But with Savathun in the mix....hm

I am however more worried about the fact that our plans have been going super damn well

And we're already in act 3

I feel like some shit is on the horizon

[tough badge]

Xivu pulled up

She thinks she’s kratos

[sick yew]

Which did what? Nothing

[tough badge]

I’m she shots swords at us

Maybe that like

[sick yew]

Punched a hole into the hull of the dreadnaught and is trying to claw at Eris' throne world but so far there doesnt seem to be any real danger

[tough badge]

Ya idk I can’t think of anything

[sick yew]

If I had to guess anything she might get a hold of the Echo briefly and we get it back for the finale?

Or if Bungie wants Xivu to be next in line for raid boss type shit she'll escape with the Echo and gets to be the main baddied in Frontiers

[strong tendon]

Failsafe was the only reason I came back every week to play echoes. No failsafe hate here

[sick yew]

Based

[strong tendon]

Also I doubt either of them will get the echo

I think there’s two probable outcomes.
1- the echo escapes and goes to fundament
2 - the echo stays with eris

[sick yew]

Fundament most likely just dont exist no more btw

[strong tendon]

I don’t think they’d bring it up this much if it just didn’t exist anymore

[sick yew]

It is relevant to their history

[strong tendon]

Why would him escaping to fundament be such a big deal anyway? He’s away from. Literally anyone threatening

[sick yew]

The Echo is a source of extreme power

And unlike us the Hive are pretty dang good at traveling larger distances

He'd be out of reach for us but not Xivu or Savy

[strong tendon]

True true

I think out of the three (us/eris, xivu and savathun). Savathun is the least likely to get the echo

[sick yew]

I mean she has made her attempts

But Oryx is pissed as fuck cause shes got a ghost

[strong tendon]

He’s pissed at both of them right?

[sick yew]

Yeah but much more at Savathun

[strong tendon]

Like literally any time they speak to him he either says they’re a heretic or they’ve committed heresy

[sick yew]

Didnt you hear the bros outburst in act 2?

[strong tendon]

Oh yeah with xivus funny living knight microphone

[sick yew]

nono I mean Oryx lashing out at Savathun

[strong tendon]

Ohhhh the one on the moon?

[sick yew]

Yep

[strong tendon]

Vaguely

[sick yew]

Man got mad

[strong tendon]

The fact that nothing really bad has happened yet is a bad sign

[sick yew]

Agreed

[strong tendon]

When there’s like 2 weeks left of the story

Bets on xivu or savathun getting the echo in the final week and then we get it back in an epilogue mission

[sick yew]

In other news, I just randomly saw this and its hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dsTir_9Bsk&ab_channel=DestinyLoreVault

"Auntie Savvy"

[strong tendon]

Oh yeah I saw that

I love savathun so much

[cunning sinew]

Was doing the scarlet keep gm and came across a line I’ve never heard before, in the area where Eris usually says “Hashladun knows what you have done” that lil spot, Eris started talking about how I’ve communed with something with something in the darkness which is just a line I’ve never heard before

I think i need to go back in to record the line, just found it strange cause I’ve done that strike very recently a couple weeks back and the line wasn’t any different

Would anybody know what line im talking about and where it’d come from?

[sick yew]

Cant think of a line you might have heard but during the Shadowkeep days we first came face to face with "The Voice in the Darkness" which later turned out to be the Witness

So it could be referencing that

[eager trout]

Who's Hashladun?

[hollow hinge]

Hah

[sick yew]

One of Crotas Daughters

The Wizard we kill in the Scarlet Keep strike

[ember storm]

Originator of the wizard boss model with the cursed thrall head

Because she was originally a weirdly overgrown thrall and got tortured relentlessly until Crota deemed she was worthy to exist and then shipped her off to oryx

[eager trout]

Bro what💀

[dim minnow]

Least evil moment in Hive Lore

[eager trout]

Yet everyone's siding with past Oryx just because he's chill

[dim minnow]

Bungie really knows how to get you to like someone

and the actors know how to bring charisma to their characters

[eager trout]

What's the most evil thing Oryx had done at the point Echo Oryx is from?

[dim minnow]

wipe out several alien races

[eager trout]

Ok, that's pretty bad

[bleak crow]

this might be a really really stupid question, but is there a lore explanation for the ghost shell skins?

Can a ghost change the way it looks like how we can change our ghost shells skin?

[eager trout]

Yeah

They're basically clothes

As far as we know a Ghost can't simply transform its shell, but it can get a new one

[bleak crow]

Wym get a new one?

[eager trout]

From someone

Like clothes

[bleak crow]

basically what I’m asking is if there is some kind of lore explanation for a ghost shell looking like some of the unquie exotic ones, because ghost shells don’t have to be the basic ghost shell shape right? Since sagira’s shell from what I know is one of a kind

[eager trout]

The lore really depends on the shell

[bleak crow]

or can a ghost choose the way its shell is shaped when it’s created or is it just you get what you get type stuff

[eager trout]

Some were made by the Ghost's Guardian, others were gifted to them by someone else

[eager trout]

No, they all had the same shell when they were created

[bleak crow]

oh ok

[eager trout]

As shown in the Final Shape cutscene when we enter the Pale Heart

[dim minnow]

Immaru was able to switch to a Shaded Shell to disguise himself

[bleak crow]

[eager trout]

He found it in a box or something, right?

[bleak crow]

quick second question, when we are siting in space looking at the traveler after the lantern scene after the witness is killed, what are those 3 spark things that shoot out of the traveler right before crow starts talking

[dim minnow]

Echoes

specifically the three we have been chasing the entire year

Echo of Command, Echo of Riis, and Echo of Navigation

[bleak crow]

I’m assuming we found them all now right?

since we’re on navigation

[dim minnow]

the Echo of Command is still with The Conductor who escaped with it at the end of Episode Echoes' story

[bleak crow]

oh ok

[dim minnow]

the Echo of Riis is now in Eramis' possession who chose to leave Sol to rebuild Eliksni society without us in the picture

and the Echo of Navigation at this point in the current episode's story is beign contained within Eris Morn's throne world, but that could change in the coming weeks

[bleak crow]

[dim minnow]

in terms of what the Echoes are specifically, they were created when the Witness was unmade at the end of Excision, formed from an intense collision of Light and Dark

they are powerful paracausal relics made from the Witness' memories

it is heavily implied that the Echo of Command (which allows one to "command" the wills of others) was made from a memory of someone from a species known as the Qugu who were wiped out by the Hive

the Echo of Riis was made from the memory of the Whirlwind, which was the Eliksni's version of the collapse since Riis was the name of their homeworld

when Fikrul had the echo of Riis, it allowed him to transform living Eliksni into Scorn. When Eramis had it, she used its power to cure Mithrax when he was afflicted by the curse of Nezarec

the Echo of Navigation is a memory of Oryx from the point he became the Taken King

[ember storm]

personally think theres gonna be more than 3

[dim minnow]

well atm the Valence is pretty much a nothing burger

so there's not any more coming out of it

maybe there was more than three that came out, but we don't know yet

[ember storm]

the cutscenes for echoes showed more than 3 so

[bleak crow]

Who is Eido?

[dim minnow]

there's 2 different characters who apply to that?

are you talking about Eliksni Eido?

[bleak crow]

Tonic girl

like is she just tonic girl or does she do anything else

[dim minnow]

ok, Eido

she is Mithrax's daughter (adopted, he found her in the wreckage of a skiff in the aftermath of a battle between Awoken and House of Devils/Wolves)

she was named after an Awoken woman named Sjur Eido, who was the first Queen's Wrath

she chose to be a scribe for the House of Light, though in Revenant, she did turn to Apothecary work in an attempt to try and cure her father's illness

[bleak crow]

did it work tho?

or do we not know yet

[dim minnow]

yes and no

[bleak crow]

it just extended his lifetime?

gave him more time?

[dim minnow]

Eido herself was not the one to cure her father, but she did help out a lot by making a tonic that allowed us to finally kill Fikrul for good

and as a result of that, Eramis was able to claim the Echo of Riis which she used to cure Mithrax

[bleak crow]

W Daughter

[little gorge]

if the winnower doesn't really act because it knows it will be proven right anyways, then why did it give oryx the power to take

[slow berry]

shits and giggles

[trim grotto]

The gardener is all in. They are playing for keeps. And they are wrong. Or so I argue: for, after all, the universe is undecidable. There is no destiny. We're all making this up as we go along. Neither the gardener nor I know for certain that we're eternally, universally right.
Even it realises it might be wrong. However... it was more of a reward than a gift.

[bleak crow]

What do the black armory symbols stand for?

do they have names?

[slim girder]

Green is Rasmussen
Blue is Izanami
Red is Meyrin.

They were the foundries behind the black armoury.

[bleak crow]

I miss black armory

[trim grotto]

To clarify a bit, they were the families behind the Black Armory, headed by Helga Rasmussen, Henriette Meyrin, and Yuki Izanami.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-black-armory-papers
If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading this book.

[bleak crow]

I will gladly read every single black armory lore book

[feral token]

Bungie should do truth and lies again, and make one "the crow will die" and then 3 years later show a crow getting slammed by a ship mid-air

[jagged badge]

😭

[lyric karma]

Getting shot by amanda

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny-crow-amanda-holiday-ratio-gif-27636579

[sick yew]

Kinda neat that they actually showed his "shield" break similar to how it looks in crucible

But damn where was Amanda working out

Shit barely kicked back and she only had it in one hand

[ember storm]

remember the weirdly rigid and basic splicer cutscene where they replay the scene of vex getting shot

zavala one tapping minotaurs with origin story

fuckin nadir i hate those guys

[sick yew]

Hes just build like that

Used to be*

[ember storm]

pretty sure its meant to be the innate light enhancement armor thing

[sick yew]

Yeah obviously

I didnt know a better term other than shield

[ember storm]

which i think is pretty cool

[ember storm]

no it totally is the ingame shield

it has the same sound effect and everything

i just think that's what the actual canon explanation for the mechanic is

like your shield breaks and your armor stops being paracausal n whatever

which is when you're at red bar health

so a few shots from anything puts you down

[dim minnow]

Perhaps the red bar is normal health

[frigid sparrow]

I mean, the void buff is called overshield, so it is totally a normal shield

Since for it to be an overshield it'd need a normal shield

[sick yew]

I mean not really, in gaming overshield is generally just used as a loose term

[ember storm]

it is a protective barrier made purely of light over everything

guardians enhance their gear through paracausality, that is confirmed

[frigid sparrow]

WRONG, my shield also uses the power of friendship

[ember storm]

guardians using standard issue vanguard weapons can solo a hive knight but it takes 10 redjacks with the same weapons

[spark fiber]

Xivu is stinky

[spark fiber]

Well we do use light, and redjacks are weak ass robots anyway

[jagged badge]

That is exactly what Waltz said

[ember storm]

whos waltz

[empty fern]

Probably that guy over there

[jagged badge]

What guy?

[empty fern]

That guy

The one over there

Behind the ping channel

[plain topaz]

what is this light going throught the tangled shore rings(i think thats what they are)

[dim minnow]

that ring is the gateway between the Tangled Shore and the city

it is also what kept the city hidden

[plain topaz]

Ah, got it.

[eager trout]

What's the lore of 1k Voices and why you can get multiple in the same raid?

[dim minnow]

just a weapon made from Ahamkara remains (presumably Riven's)

[bold wraith]

Where did the iron banner come from also didn't all the iron lords get killed? Or something like that can anyone explain Greatly appreciated

[dim minnow]

Lord Saladin was the last Iron Lord

Efrideet too, but she kinda left the group to do her own thing

Saladin organized the event to act as a better crucible

he wishes to make Guardians better prepared for their battles

[bold wraith]

Ahh ok so basically he felt that crucible needed to be better so he improved it in his own vision on how guardians should prepare for battles?

[dim minnow]

sort of, he actually did have an agreement with Shaxx so the banner is considered part of the Crucible

though Saladin still runs it on his own schedule

and it is well known that the two have a lot of tension between them

[bold wraith]

Oh ok so like a collaboration between the two thanks for answering my question I love iron banner but it always felt weird not knowing why it was there

[dim minnow]

yeah, in canon it's pretty much just Crucible 2

as for why there's tension between Shaxx and Saladin in case you were wondering

it all started during Twilight Gap when the Fallen were attacking

Shaxx and his fireteam were holding the line, but Saladin told him to retreat

Shaxx ended up ignoring that order and his fireteam went on to win the battle

they both hated each other's guts since

[slim girder]

I think Saladin needs a bit of humbling. He screams the character trope of "Grizzled veteran who the MC disobeys for the greater good"

Battle was won in the end.

[wheat flower]

Saladin isn't that bad

He basically sacrificed himself to caiatl's war council 5o save crow

Again yet another reason to hate crow

[slim girder]

Then proceeds to call caiatls tactics stupid. He's on a bit of a high horse imo.

I get with all the battle he's seen he has wisdom but he doesn't need to act like he's the only one who knows how to fight a war.

[eager trout]

But isn't he...alive?

[wheat flower]

Scarificed as in he left us to join them

Which he only did cause caiatl wanted crow dead for killing her psion

I wasn't around for that season mind you but that's the gist of it

[eager trout]

When did Crow do that?

[slim girder]

Season of the risen. Crow thought what we were doing analysing the hive made us no better and so disconnected the machine which was connected to a psion who was probing their thoughts for intel. But when he did it killed the psion.

[eager trout]

So it was an accident

[slim girder]

Yes crow had good intentions but didn't know it was going to kill the psion

[ember storm]

When was this, pray tell?

Cause if it’s from psi ops that’s literally when his character starts to change

The entire point of risen was him not wanting to see anyone else’s way than his own

[wheat flower]

Pretty big accident

Nearly broke the alliamce

Zavala was prepping to thunderclap some cabal

[ember storm]

Saladin willingly giving his life away and Caiatl accepting it as indentured servitude is pretty substantial in terms of a character previously defined by his ego

[slim girder]

It is yes. But I'm just using that as an example. I know he's changed since then but I still don't think he's changed all that much.

[ember storm]

That’s literally just because he hasn’t been in any plot since

All he did was show up a couple times for what, deep?

I don’t even remember him in the excision cutscene

[wheat flower]

He was in deep?

[eager trout]

People when the character with only 5 minutes of screentime doesn't have an entire arc

[ember storm]

Like two times

[wheat flower]

Cool

[slim girder]

Like I'm willing to bet this tension with shaxx is more just an embarrassment that his orders weren't what won that battle. He doesn't like that his call was considered the wrong one.

[ember storm]

One of them was at the end when he was complaining about Zavala considering letting Savathun rise again which is completely valid and fair

[wheat flower]

I mean out of the 3 hive gods sav is kinda chill

Past actions aside

[slim girder]

Just because sav doesn't fight doesn't mean she isn't dangerous. Her "being chill" is part of her trickery which empowers her.

[ember storm]

They don’t despise each other or anything

[wheat flower]

Also a question

How strong is savathun currently?

[ember storm]

Does this quote really strike you as someone who hates each other

[wheat flower]

Like did she lose all her tithe power?

[ember storm]

“What time is it? Shaxx? Shaxx, are you there? Can you get me a water? Stop yelling, it's just a question. I'm not old!"

[ember storm]

All her stocked tithes were taken by Eris when she was a god

Savathun can’t really use anything hive related beyond spells she’d already know

Plus making plans and setting up rituals isn’t really strength

Keep in mind we’ve been able to defeat her twice already solo

[wheat flower]

True true

[ember storm]

And all the psychic projections in psiops which are stated to hit as hard as the real thing

She’s basically just like a fireteam of three

She relies solely on her light in combat whereas guardians balance between their power and their weapons

[eager trout]

Savathun doing a passive XP farm by tricking us into thinking she's not scheming anything.

[ember storm]

She don’t get that anymore

No worm to tithe off of the imbaru

[slim girder]

We found the imbaru engine after her worm had been removed though. And every time we made a mistake she laughed. Thought that was supposed to imply she was becoming stronger and all removing her worm did was make it so she would grow in power with no repurcusssions.

[hollow hinge]

Again, her worm is literally in our hands

Well... then again... Eris doesn't have a worm

[slim girder]

Savathuns whole drive was trying to escape her chains from the worm gods and to "break free from the game"
She's managed to gain power with no consequence and also become the most resilient enemy we have atm since on top needing to be killed in her throne immaru must also be destroyed.

[eager trout]

Olgurn is the greatest Cabal we'll never meet

[bleak crow]

What were we protecting riven’s eggs from in season of the wish

didn’t she tell us to go protect them or some shit

[young sigil]

Is Eris alive or dead or something else?

[bleak crow]

she’s alive

her death was

greatly exaggerated

[dim minnow]

our goal was to retrieve them since Riven's mate, Taranis, sacrificed himself so he could make a wish to scatter them

of course, the eggs being scattered was a double-edged sword

while it did keep them safe, it did allow for some of them to be threatened by adversaries like the Taken or Vex

[dim minnow]

she died, however, she secretly had a Throne World so her soul went straight to it upon her death

not even Eris knew she had it until she ended up there

[bleak crow]

I thought he wished to keep them safe

not scatter them

[young sigil]

Somehow...Palpatine returns

[dim minnow]

yes, and the eggs being scattered was how that wish manifested

[bleak crow]

that’s smart and dumb

so the entire season was a fucking fetch quest?

[dim minnow]

yes, that's why I said it was a double-edged sword

[dim minnow]

for what it's worth, the writing was good

[slim girder]

Yes but in return we got our path to the witness

[dim minnow]

I wish the Black Heart fight had used all three tracks instead of just Ishtar Sink

[bleak crow]

I’m still lowkey fucking pissed that we didn’t get a cracked Ace Of Spades skin

That would’ve been so cool

[bleak crow]

go make a wish then

[dim minnow]

OH FUCK WAIT I DIDN'T MEAN IT

NO NO NO

[bleak crow]

[bleak crow]

Is there a lore explanation for why almost 97% of eliksni where breathing masks or some type of mask?

or is it just design choice

[dim minnow]

the masks are how they inhale Ether

[bleak crow]

ether?

Oh is that the shit that explodes and erupts from the head when you headshot them?

(Fuck that sounded gruesome as fuck )

[dim minnow]

Ether is basically a material that promotes Eliksni growth

the more Ether an Eliksni has, the bigger they get

any Eliksni smaller than a captain is considered malnourished

[bleak crow]

can they get to big?

[dim minnow]

yes, Ultra-sized

[bleak crow]

obese eliksni 😭

[dim minnow]

uhh

hmmm

I don't think Ether makes them fat

think of large Fallen bosses

like that one Moon lost sector boss

[bleak crow]

oh

So just

Very tall?

[dim minnow]

not exactly just taller

but yeah

[tough kettle]

then what does make them fat... looking at you spider...

[slim girder]

Spider is just a lard

[dim minnow]

I'd guess food

Eliksni still need that along side Ether

[tough kettle]

i wonder what eliksni eat, i would assume they mostly eat meat because of their absurdly sharp teeth

[dim minnow]

there are fruits

let's see, also human children

[tough kettle]

i've heard of that too

the lore is crazy

[trim grotto]

Variks is particularly fond of old Riis yaviirsi figs.

[low gyro]

Hm. So eliksni are omnivores?

Wonder if there's a lore snippet about somebody asking them if they like the food in Sol

[next bobcat]

Me and my friends have started using the term “krillcore” to describe something that was designed to fail or be defeated. I’m sure there are various other lore euphemisms of a similar design

[little gorge]

disposable cup: ❌
krillcore cup: ✅

the timid truth 🗣️

[ember storm]

she was literally dead when we found it

[slim girder]

Probably an imprinted memory. It is in her throne world afterall. Like an echo of sorts.

[ember storm]

yeah but she still gained no actual power from it

there is no tithing without a worm

you also can't gain tithes when you're literally dead

keep in mind that for all intents and purposes, savathun is still a mortal

she's not a god anymore

immaru is her only lifeline

[slim girder]

And her throne world. As I said before her whole drive is to remove the burden of things such as a worm. So now she has a throne world and a ghost making her pretty hard to properly kill.
The lucent hive still see her as the hive god of trickery.

She still feels everything in her throne world as she did when we went snooping around at the start of this episode before she told us to go away.

[ember storm]

it aint

it is still connected to her as a throne world but it cannot save her

it started to collapse and rot the moment she died after Lost

the only reason its still standing is because the wellspring keeps it intact through light

it can just be destroyed like a normal physical location now (which is why the pyramid superweapon public events and scorn wellspring rotations are a thing)

for all intents and purposes, Savathun is just a lightbearer who also knows some hive spells

she is not a god anymore