📚lore-discussion

[chrome fog]

The Classes - and to an extent the subclasses - are more akin to martial arts that a Guardian is more inclined towards utilizing, only it's in regards to how they handle and utilize Light

[trim grotto]

"Cut out" isn't the term I'd use. If you look at newly risen, you can sometimes tell what they will be simply from their nature.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/into-the-fray
I would argue that this, for example, is the perfect example of a new Titan - despite having no time to even learn where she is.

I disagree.

Light and its forms can be learned, taught, shared, but if there are no limits, what stops our most experienced, oldest, most qualified, from "multiclassing"? There must be some limits of affinity.

[chrome fog]

Well I mean

Like I, at one point, was Third Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo, which surely would translate into being able to learn and practice, say, capoiera

There are shared elements and similar principles in the moves of both martial arts, but there is different focuses and techniques that are used for both that aren't entirely translatable

It could very well be that it's a matter of preference and compatibility, though entirely personal and not limited by an affinity

[trim grotto]

Radiance is the perfect example. We cannot cast a Well, nor even a Rift. We can still apply Radiance, the effect, through Acrobat's Dodge. There are shared aspects, but limits.

Some forms of Light may be unnatural, difficult to form by some people. If it were as simple as preference, we wouldn't be sitting here with our one no-class example sitting lonely - and Drifter is only no class because he doesn't practice Light at all.

Take Trihn - she never met the Vanguard, nor even other Lightbearers, for much of her life. However, she is the definition of a Voidwalker.

There is more to classes and abilities than preference, even if some "class" abilities can be shared and taught and learned. Some of it is nature, it is not all nurture.

Guardians themselves are the same. Our personalities are based on nature, but moulded by nurture, as seen with Crow. Destiny always mixes the two.

[empty fern]

Mael text walls once again
Such a shame

[trim grotto]

"we can do anything from any class with no limits" bothers me 😔

[ember storm]

I think that’s just because hunters are lame

[trim grotto]

[trim grotto]

also not to beat a dead horse but the Iron Lords also fit this bill - they existed before classes did, but one can very easily place a class stereotype label upon nearly all of them, particularly Saladman the obvious Titan

Subclasses and their Ways are preference though, this is true
Guardians are drawn to their preferred elements and take time and effort to learn them - Cayde, as we all know, preferred his Solar

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-gif-21843382

Someone post the gif of crow with the axe, I can’t find it

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-guardian-lightbearer-crow-hunter-gif-4526466056086935105

[empty fern]

Yes

[jagged badge]

For the record, that’s a relic and not a Light super or ability, so not relevant to this conversation

[empty fern]

Wait what?

[trim grotto]

but it is cool as hell

[jagged badge]

We used it back in Rise of Iron

The Iron Lord axe is a relic weapon

Not a super

It’s infused with Solar Light, sure

[trim grotto]

Crow was physically gifted the Axe
it was lying around in the HELM for a while back in Chosen

[empty fern]

Aw man ,_,

Does it like, shorten itself? It looks like it comes out of nowhere

[trim grotto]

I expect it was summoned, as we once did with Last Word.

[empty fern]

I see

[jagged badge]

Comes from the same place we grab our weapons from

[empty fern]

Also, bring back the axe for relic pvp mode

Pls

[low gyro]

maybe transmat works even near the witness idk

[sick yew]

Transmat as a technology afaik is mostly rather poorly explained, probably cause trying to explain how it works now would create some lore issues with it either contradicting how it has worked in the past of being so blatantly overpowered that one wonders why its not abused in some way

So it just works however its presented in the context of the scene

[ember storm]

I mean it’s basically just a signal isn’t it

Satellites and whatever

[sick yew]

I dont quite remember but its similar ish technology as engrams right? Where it digitalizes matter for a period of time and rematerializes it on demand

[ember storm]

Nah it’s a form of transportation

Like trans materialization

We had to manually place beacons on the Dreadnaught which implies an actual network connection

You ever played Luigi’s mansion dark moon

[sick yew]

Yeah but the actual range seems rather weird

[ember storm]

well i assume individual locations have like satellites in their orbit

[sick yew]

The HELM seems to have a particularly strong transmat range

Remember the end of the Final Shape campaign?

[ember storm]

Yeah but that only happens when it’s in the actual pale heart

Plus you see like a beam of light shine on them before it happens

I assume that’s a different kind activated by the helm itself

Rather than the individual trying to use transmat tech relying on their own individual connection

Like what npcs do after we do helm convos and stuff

[sick yew]

I wonder why anyone ever crashes in their ships, couldnt you just always transmat to a different one and shit

[ember storm]

Are you going to have a ship flying nearby you 24/7

Also when your ship is crashing I’m assuming it’s technology isn’t functioning properly

[sick yew]

In the battle against the Pyramids in the lightfall opening they seeemed to have one
Otherwise if youre going down on some random planet you can always just transmat out before the crash

[sick yew]

Open up the window, yeet a beacon outta there and transmat to that, ez

[ember storm]

What

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

Those were all manually piloted individually

Jumpships are a one seater

You can’t bum a ride

[sick yew]

Yeah and the Helm was like right there

Just tp back to that

[ember storm]

Alex

They weren’t shot down and left to crash

They were destroyed

They die instantly

[sick yew]

Amanda just flew into a random ass piece of debris (which idk how she survived that one and ended up on a Shadow Legion ship but thats a story for another day)

[ember storm]

How are you gonna open your iPhone and call an uber when the witness salamis you

[ember storm]

Yeah they scooped up all survivors immediately

The helm was in lockdown mode

[sick yew]

If only d2 was an offline game so it would pause when you open a menu

[ember storm]

Red lights all windows closed and all

[ember storm]

30 wheels of cheese moment

Also don’t ask me how Osiris was allowed to just like

Fly into a cabal fleet and park his ass in their command ship

[sick yew]

I wonder why we could only transmat to the outside of the ship

[ember storm]

Our ships have individual but limited transmat range

[sick yew]

Fly closer? idfk

[ember storm]

Like we don’t physically climb in and out ever but we can’t just do it when our ship is in orbit

[ember storm]

Cabal have anti transmatanium plating, obviously

[sick yew]

Thank god they had the convenient leaver that opens a door to the inside of the ship.....ON THE OUTSIDE

[ember storm]

It’s osha mandated smh

Haven’t you ever seen WallE

[sick yew]

Imagine using the Helm as a combat ship and just filling it to the brim with bombs and transmatting them out precisely where they gotta be

[chrome fog]

Imagine a cabal repairman just hanging off the ladder and waiting there the whole trip cause he got stuck

[uneven canyon]

Is Deepsight a power of the Darkness? Is it byproduct of Strand?

[ember storm]

Not related to strand at all no

[trim grotto]

Yes, and no.

[ember storm]

Deepsight is a darkness power, and the idea behind darkness is that it deals with the mind (as opposed to the light dealing with the physical)

Deepsight is specifically about memories and perception

[pseudo pebble]

Do you guys think we’ll see more of the Bray sisters or is that chapter closed

[trim grotto]

Yes.

We will.

[pseudo pebble]

Elsie didn’t have as much of a role as I thought she would during the final shape

No mentions in any of the episodes either

Just that little epilogue art 🥲

[trim grotto]

There really wasn't much for her to do. Elsie's thing was pushing our timeline into new frontiers, and... she has. She's was mortal Exo in an unknown timeline facing a god.

Now, she's... well, she's done her duty, I suppose. But she's still out there pushing for our success, and Ana is still an active Guardian.

[pseudo pebble]

I do hope for a Clovis return as well

Is that even possible

To my understanding Rasputin logged him out

[trim grotto]

Sure. He isn't dead. Just stuck on Europa.

[pseudo pebble]

poor guy

[trim grotto]

I'm not particularly concerned. Firstly, he can simply shut down/go into sleep mode. Secondly... he's a frankly disgusting excuse of a human.

[pseudo pebble]

I think he’s pretty despicable as well

I miss some of his witty pretentious comments though

cool antag I hope they try utilizing more

[slim girder]

He's dangerous but unfortunately like savathun possesses knowledge that makes him valuable.

We can't trust him at all but we can't just get rid of him.

[jagged badge]

He wiped the partitioned version of Clovis from the Exo frame. That partitioned version of Clovis then sent an encrypted warning back to Europa Clovis

[ember storm]

i forgor was the eris born in the city thing real

[sick yew]

The what

[ember storm]

like obviously it was in ttp with savathun roleplaying but i forgor

like the hidden find evidence of it being a real fact

eris was born and raised in the city before she died or smth

[sick yew]

Damn fr

[ember storm]

course she didnt have any memories of the city

cause risen

[jagged badge]

I believe so

Those were separate actual records found iirc

[hot cypress]

hey how can venus have forests?

like it has life actually life in there

[sick yew]

The Traveler creates life wherever it goes even if it doesnt touch down for an extended period of time on a planet

Mercury got transformed into a garden world after being nothing but a bunch of rocks

The Traveler never finished the terraforming on Io and its still full of various life

[hot cypress]

mmm and when did humanity build the ishtar archive on venus was that during the time the traveler was there?

or after?

[sick yew]

Again I dont think the Traveler ever visited Venus specifically but it was during the golden age

[jagged badge]

Probably after it had finished terraforming it

[jagged badge]

It had to visit the planets/moons to terraform them

[sick yew]

Didnt it also create certain life by simply existing near them?

[jagged badge]

We know that when the Collapse began, the Traveler was physically at Io before it moved to Earth

[sick yew]

It never visited Titan specifically and that place still has an atmosphere now which I dont think it had before

Same with the Moon

[jagged badge]

Golden Age humanity created ways to terraform too

Iirc

Not on the scale the Traveler is capable of, of course, but

[sick yew]

So Titan's and the Moons atmospheres were created by Humanity? huh

Good to know

I thought the Traveler only specifically visited Mercury then Mars then Io which it abandoned early and then went straight to Earth

[jagged badge]

I’m not specifically sure about that, just raising it as a possibility

[sick yew]

mhm

[jagged badge]

The Traveler didn’t terraform Neptune, for example

But humanity made a way to live there

Or Europa either

[slim girder]

Clovis has said he is capable of creating the equivalent of moons pull to regulate tides on earth.
So golden age tech might have definitely been able to have done stuff of that scope

[trim grotto]

Presumably afterwards.

However, there were the Hesperonaut terraform engines installed on Venus.

[slim girder]

Golden age humanity was fully focused on making sol their home with the travelers help. No clue how far they really go

[trim grotto]

Like the deep-sea divers of old, the Hesperonauts plunged into the fiery calderas of Venus.
The Hesperonauts installed the terraform engines and secured Venus's first colonies.```
The Ishtar Archive specifically was likely constructed afterwards given its nature, but Golden Age Humanity *did* work on dangerous Venus itself.

[jagged badge]

Oohh

[hollow fern]

Maybe a stupid question but could someone follow both the sword and the bomb logic

[ember storm]

no

they're fundamentally opposite ideologies

[hollow fern]

Ah I see 😅

[jagged badge]

Sword Logic champions individual strength and might. Darwinism. The weak die (and never deserved existence at all) and the strong survive and prove their claim to existence forever and ever

“Bomb Logic” is the idea of a collective. Of teamwork and cooperation to achieve a goal

Individuals working together, everyone being an important cog/component

[hollow fern]

@jagged badge OK I understand why it doesn't work but the reason I asked was because I thought a combination of both would be someone who prefers to work by themselves but will work with others to achieve something they can't do by themselves

[ember storm]

sword logic is specifically about killing everything in your wake, even those you'd love, in pursuit of becoming the sharpest edge you can

[jagged badge]

Yeah, it’s not a valid ideology to follow

It’s cruel and selfish and incredibly flawed

Oryx has done eons worth of killing in the name of making the universe better, and his answer to “what if I die?” is just “well I deserved it and someone killing me is just further proof of the logic”

[blazing wasp]

ïts a stupid ideology, quite literally, its simplistic and straight forward, it doesnt favour intelligence and complexity

hence why the winnower would be so fond of something like the sword logic

[ember storm]

winnower is just chill about it too bc the ideology is sorta self fufilling

eventually there WILL be only one thing left in the universe

it doesnt have to run around trying to preach about it like the witness did abt the final shape

[blazing wasp]

yea

especially doesnt need to enforce it

[slim girder]

As long as conflicts arise that result in one thing being on top of the other the winnowers logic is proven.

But us doing things like protecting others and forging alliances goes against that.

[paper gorge]

did/does the darkness stop savathun ?

[ember storm]

in what sense

the darkness is simply a neutral power that individuals use to their benefit

[dim minnow]

referring to Sundered Doctrine truths?

I suppose it's because we used Deepsight (which is a Darkness power) to defeat Savathun

[paper gorge]

yep

[eager trout]

It wasn't exactly directly, though

[frigid sparrow]

Sure, but both the truths related to savathun are from the darkness and pyramids stopping her

Speaking of, with we could've gotten other truths using some of the unused symbols

Guardians/Witness Enter Traveler, Witch Queen Love Knowledge, Guardian Commune Pyramid, Scorn Drink Darkness, Scorn Enter Ascendant Plane, Witness Give Black Heart/Guardians Kill Black Heart, stuff like that

Then again it doesn't help that there's shit like Tower and Grief

Actually, Guardian Grief Tower

[eager trout]

If Rhulk's pyramid is so old, why does it have symbols for relatively new things?

[slow berry]

The pyramids are alive

[ember storm]

isnt the point that the dread are doing this

also pretty sure all the symbols are still the original vow ones

they're just placed in new meaning because we have more knowledge

[slim girder]

The pyramid knows what's been happening in the world.
The symbols are just able to be interpreted in many different ways based on events.

[sick yew]

I mean there isnt really a symbol that only came up after Rhulks death either

Bro was bored he probably just scribbled them as he was sitting there for thousands of years with nothing to do

[eager trout]

I mean that Rhulk's Pyramid is likely older than Guardians and The Tower but it still has symbols for them

[sick yew]

Not just likely but it is

[sick yew]

The symbols dont have to be as old as the pyramid

They could always have been created afterwards down the line

[slim girder]

Honestly was probably the witness who created those symbols..

[river creek]

Who is shayura and stuff? Iron banner weapon are named after Iron lords, so what are the trials weapons named after? Osiris's friends?

[empty fern]

@ember storm I summon you to monologue

[hazy veldt]

does anyone know what those investigation spots do in the tower

[ember storm]

Just famous trials players really

[river creek]

ancient red war era dialogue

[ember storm]

Anyway Shayura went nuts during the BL era (one of the classic light=good darkness=bad) zealots

She went around murdering people

[hazy veldt]

like a random piece on exterior with books and stuff

[ember storm]

Had like countless dead ghosts stacked in her ship

[hazy veldt]

so they removed red war from game but didnt bother to remove those things

bnugie

[river creek]

actual players or in the lore?

[hazy veldt]

lore

[river creek]

alr

[hazy veldt]

shayura was a warlock

all i know tbh

[ember storm]

Still is

You ever heard of the Praxic order

[hazy veldt]

who

[river creek]

must have been using geomags

[ember storm]

famous warlock order

Very pretentious and high and mighty

Aunor is a member

[hazy veldt]

bunch of noname nerds

istg there are 0 recorded non-goofy guardian organizations

[ember storm]

Wdym

[empty fern]

Like sunbreakers?

[hazy veldt]

titans are goofballs by nature

[empty fern]

So not an actual question then ,_,

[ember storm]

Why your Titan look boring

[empty fern]

Cause
It was like level 30

[hollow hinge]

@trim grotto can it be argued that since we're only 10 years old as a Guardian and with the feats we've accomplished that we have at the very least the potential to be one of, if not the most powerful guardians to ever live?

(yes I know it's always said that anyone could be in our place but the fact of the matter is also that we're oftentimes first choice for dangerous missions despite being so young so surely that has to count for something)

[ember storm]

It’s specifically just because of the track record

[hollow hinge]

I'm sure any other guardian could've done a lot of our feats

but some of the them are outright bonkers

[ember storm]

And none of them are especially unique to us

[hollow hinge]

correct me if I'm wrong but Crow went through the portal first because of his link with Mara but then we were right behind him, no?

[ember storm]

No?

[hollow hinge]

I'm not so convinced

[ember storm]

Crow went in like months before FS started

And Zavala and Ikora were the first to enter the portal successfully

Which again is only due to the track record

[ember storm]

Convinced of what

Literally any guardian could have done what we did in our position

[hollow hinge]

that any other guardian could've accomplished all of that

[ember storm]

Individual skill and experience is a thing yeah but like

We arent literally the only person in the universe capable of doing specific things

Anyone could have and did master stasis which is how we defeated Eramis

Anyone could’ve presented Savathun with the truth about the god wave and distracted her enough to kill her

Anyone could kill oryx when he was literally summoning bombs to kill himself with

[hollow hinge]

Did the other timelines have a version of us?

[ember storm]

Yes

That is specifically mentioned by Elsie

Alternate timelines aren’t like alternate universes where entire situations are automatically different

They only differ because of the choices Elsie made in an attempt to make a different future

We did not magically exist in this timeline in particular for no reason, we always did exist

Everything in this timeline started simply because Elsie took a gamble on a new light that could be directed towards the black garden

In the process of the D1 campaign we discover the hidden swarm’s attempt to invade earth which leads Eris to later contact us by the time Crota’s resurrection is under way

[hollow hinge]

But it's specifically thanks to a lot of our efforts that the dark future didn't happen, no?
I mean with us being the ones at the forefront of every situation essentially

[ember storm]

And because we had personal direct meetings with Mara while looking for the black garden, Petra contacted us for the house of wolves rebellion

[ember storm]

Efforts that are not because we are a special godlike entity

Like, Gordan Freeman isn’t magically more powerful than any other human being

[hollow hinge]

I'm not going as far as saying we're a godlike entity but we are among the most powerful guardians

Surely

[ember storm]

It just comes down to skill and general experience

[jagged badge]

General Experience 🫡

[ember storm]

We are not fundamentally different from any other guardian

Under the right circumstances anyone could do what we do

It is simply because we are the main character of a video game with story campaigns that max around 2 hours that we seem to already be cream of the crop right out the gate

[dapper moss]

what the hell is eris’s orb

[jagged badge]

A shard of an Ahamkara bone shielded by Hive Soulfire

[dapper moss]

why does she have it

like what purpose does it serve

[jagged badge]

It was a keepsake from her involvement in the Great Ahamkara Hunt. And it’s the reason she’s even alive today

When she was lost and alone in the depths of the Hellmouth, she wished upon it to find her way out

Though it took her sight

[dapper moss]

ah

[trim grotto]

At this point? Yeah, I'd say so. We've mastered various elements of Darkness and Prismatic faster than many Guardians master their Light.

[eager trout]

What exactly does SIVA do?

We know it's dangerous, infects things

But what does it do?

[eager trout]

What's the god wave?

[eager trout]

What's the hidden swarm?

[ember storm]

It’s just nanotech that follows its programming directive

[eager trout]

Why the Black Garden?

[eager trout]

Which is...?

[ember storm]

The only reason it was dangerous in rise of iron was because the fallen house of devils didn’t understand it

It’s normally just meant to be a construction tool, consuming materials to be used elsewhere

the devil splicers inadvertently caused an outbreak by using the simplest and most dangerous line of code possible, “consume enhance replicate”

thus SIVA had no ultimate directive and literally just consumed everything around itself and used those materials to create more of itself

[ember storm]

The god wave was the fake warning that the worm gods gave to the osmium siblings (Savathun, Xivu, oryx), saying that the traveler arriving on their world would cause a tsunami wave that would kill all life, and so the only way they could survive was to take on worms and become hive

[ember storm]

Red hive on the moon that used to be Crota’s

[ember storm]

The black garden had the black heart (the vex’s attempt at replicating the veil) which was harming the traveler just by existing

[eager trout]

If the Eliksni are supposed to be so smart why did they think being so vague was a good idea?

[ember storm]

Because they literally just found it and didn’t really know what they were dealing with

Also intellect does not mean wisdom

And they were all sort of religious zealots anyway

[eager trout]

No, but technological expertise means technological expertise

[ember storm]

The main devil splicer, Aksis, literally hacked off his legs and transplanted himself onto a tank body and proclaimed himself their new machine god

It was a desperate attempt at power and they simply didn’t care about repercussions

[grand jungle]

how does a hive even get a throne world

[slim elk]

By killing enough things

[sick yew]

Not hive but anyone really and yeah killing or being involved in the process of killing powerful other things

[frigid sparrow]

Notably, Mara Sov has a throne world, Eris retains her throne despite casting herself out of hive godhood, and Hiraks the mindbender was experimenting with his own throne world as a fallen

but there is still that hive relation due to sword logic

[trim grotto]

The Hive Worm Parasites have connections to Darkness through Sword Logic. As a Hive slays its foes, the ontological force of death feeds the Worm Parasite. If it grows strong enough, the paracausal will of the Worm and Hive create a bubble of space in the Ascendant Plane.

[next bobcat]

The guardian should absolutely have a throne world by now

Force sav’s worm to do it

It can do that right?

[blazing wasp]

we kinda cant get a throne world without first getting a hive worm or something attached to us

and we dont know what the fuck we're doing in terms of sword logic

[trim grotto]

do you really want the infinite hunger of a Parasite Worm that once fed upon a Hive God attached to you

the reason Savathûn rid herself of it is because it is inevitable doom - you will die to it

the hunger of the Worm Parasite is exponential, it grows ever larger, and if you cannot feed it, it will consume you

the reason the Hive Gods lasted as long as they did is because of the Tribute System, entire broods dedicated to feeding your Worm by Tribute

The reason we killed Oryx is because we dismantled this system and weakened him

[jagged badge]

Woah, Ukesensus

[blazing wasp]

Yes, woke up with it today

[jagged badge]

You should call a doctor

[blazing wasp]

thats expensive, ill just sleep it off

[hot cypress]

how come the are some awoken that ended up on earth?

like zavala?

[blazing wasp]

p sure they just traveled there

when the awoken found out that people of earth survived the collapse, a handful of them decided to leave and help humanity

the rest stayed with mara

[hot cypress]

and before they met the guardian for the first time in vanilla d1 did they already know the guardians exist before that? and if so how?

they= the awoken

[blazing wasp]

the awoken met guardians waaaay before we got revived

we're like a decade old guardian, thats very very young

zavala, a awoken guardian, has been a guardian for... iirc centuries?

so the awoken has known of guardians and humanity for a very, very long time

its only recently we've formed a proper relationship and alliance between the awoken to mara sov, and earth

[hot cypress]

how often did the awoken foreigners and the awoken from reef meet before we met them?

is it not much or?

or how often do they see each other

[blazing wasp]

not very much, they've been kinda keeping to themselves, but have helped us a lot here and there

[hot cypress]

wait the awoken helped humanity before the guardian met them?

[blazing wasp]

they helped significantly during the events of "twilight gap", where fallen grouped together to try and storm the city, something that would result in our utter demise

[jagged badge]

The Awoken and the Guardians collaborated for the Great Ahamkara Hunt for one

[blazing wasp]

preventing an entire house, house of wolves, from joining that fight

[jagged badge]

Also that yeah

[blazing wasp]

twilight gap and the great hunt was a long time before we got revived

in the story between the collapse and our revival it was a very long period of time

[hot cypress]

huh never knew that

thanks

really appreciate your knowledge on this topic

[blazing wasp]

its what we're here for

[hot cypress]

oh one more question, do ghosts differ in their ages?

[blazing wasp]

all ghosts were made at the exact same time i believe

[hot cypress]

even the hive ghosts?

[blazing wasp]

so they're all just as old

[blazing wasp]

hive ghosts are just ghosts

the "core" is the actual ghost
their shell is like clothes

hive ghosts are just normal ghosts that revived a hive

we dont have confirmation, but its very much probable that savahtun was revived by immaru because they conspired with savathuns brood, rather than just randomly or being chosen by the traveller specifically

[hot cypress]

its weird cause the hive ghosts are still just ghosts but with the shell of the hive

did the hive make these shells?

[sleek matrix]

Yea

The ghost itself was created by the traveler

[hot cypress]

but the shells are just materials made by other people

[blazing wasp]

probably yea

[blazing wasp]

yep

i think the default ghost is how they were made from the traveler

shell and all

but they can remove the shell

[hot cypress]

for some reason i had a thought 'its kinda funny that traveler sent down a ghost with a propeller hat to revive me', i know that doesnt happen but still

[blazing wasp]

ghosts can change shells before reviving guardians

they generally do

so yeah thats possible

[sick yew]

Ghost shells are basically just clothes for ghosts

By default they all look the same

As evidence by the Final Shape cutscene

[ember storm]

ghost shells are canonically customizable

[hollow hinge]

That's what I was alluding to but Waltz seemed to disagree on the principle

[ember storm]

skill is not intrinsically tied to power level

we have learned faster than others, we are not simply better in every way

[blazing wasp]

the typical top guardian would still annihilate us
im convinced a lot of them could kill us using nothing but guns

[ember storm]

the only reason we've got this far was circumstantial, as Elsie says directly to our faces we ended up like every other schmoe in the dark future and fell to stasis' corruption

we are not some nigh omnipotent gift from the heavens who is perfect in every way

[blazing wasp]

we're lucky, got good guidance, and somewhat adaptive

the latter being an explanation for how in the fresh fuck we do raids, assuming gameplay translates even remotely to lore

[ember storm]

rez tokens arent canon so unless its a literal wipe, theoretically we can die as much as we want

also its debatable which mechanics are even actually a thing in-universe anyway

like did eris' fireteam have to stand on plates to make the bridge too

[blazing wasp]

did they even make it to his throne world?

[ember storm]

it was apparently enough for like his entire extended family to show up

like why the fuck was alak hul there

[blazing wasp]

ah

probably got p far then

close to his throne world at least

[iron mortar]

is Mylein Games leaving the lore community after 10 years and saying the story is bad a really bad sign for the future of destiny lore?

[ember storm]

Who

The story is like the strongest it’s ever been tbh

Hive plots are always peak

[sick yew]

Similar to Waltz I have to ask, who? Never heard of em
And I personally disagree aswell, Destiny's lore has never been bad sure the ingame narrative is a bit hit or miss sometimes but the overall lore is one of the richest out of any game

[sleek matrix]

Yea

He quit awhile ago

[sick yew]

Just looked over the channel briefly

Are the lore videos any decent?

Or is it just glorified para-reading of loretabs

[sleek matrix]

Not as good as byf imo

[sick yew]

Byf is.....questionable at times

[sleek matrix]

Byf videos are alot more scripted and coherent

[sick yew]

The way he presents the actual loretabs is good at least

[sleek matrix]

Yea he has a good editor

[sick yew]

But once he goes into speculation...

[sleek matrix]

Speculation is the main part of lore thou

It doesn't have to lead to anywhere exactly but it gets players invested into the lore

[sick yew]

No but he tends to create unrealistic scenarios on purpose for dramatic effect or has the wildest expectations known to man

I fondly remember when he theorized that Savathuns song would corrupt the entire population of the Last City who'm would turn on us in WQ

[sleek matrix]

[sick yew]

Like im all for theories and predictions but you gotta draw the line at some point

[sleek matrix]

As long as its stated its a theory

I dont really mind it

[sick yew]

Eh idk

[frigid sparrow]

When theories begin to gain broader traction, people start treating it as something that should happen, and then get disappointed when it doesn't turn out how they collectively theorized

[fluid peak]

Me when I make up something wildly beyond bungie's budget/vision for the game and get disappointed it doesn't happen

(did you REALLY think neomuna was gonna be fully populated. Like. Cmon guys)

[frigid sparrow]

Okay but if Bungie ever revisits the echo of Riis and goes "actually it's not chelchis singing lol" I might be a little upset

[hollow hinge]

no but if it felt like it was just abandoned like they said

[fluid peak]

I think there was never going to be a world where neomuna had more NPC's than we do now

I just don't see it

[hollow hinge]

that's not what I said

[digital cosmos]

🤓

neomuna was a massive let down in general

[next bobcat]

Could an awoken meet someone, then meet them again as a guardian like 100 years later or something?

Would they be recognisable?

[digital cosmos]

the foundations were built on siva and had ample opportunity to involve siva into the game again.

[hollow hinge]

the guardian's face would be the same but they'd ofc have no recollection of them

[next bobcat]

Quicksilver wasn’t it?

[fluid peak]

Yeeeahhh no. They have the silver nanotech instead.

[next bobcat]

Like better nano bots

[hollow hinge]

would be up to the awoken to recognise them

[next bobcat]

Sure ok

[digital cosmos]

it was made from siva no?

the nanotech]

[fluid peak]

Technically this happened to zavala. Apparently mara recognises him.

[fluid peak]

Siva was more the older inferior version of the silver bots, but sure

Siva was conceived as a tool for construction, but I think the silver stuff is waay more versatile and easier to use

Idk how many times bungie have to say it, but Siva as a plot device is dead AND buried.

That ended with RoI, and was super ended with zero hour

[ember storm]

Do people really think LF would be saved with the addition of siva

[fluid peak]

They'd be able to cope better, I'm sure

The only thing LF needed was a better delivered story

[digital cosmos]

it would bring back wotm#

[fluid peak]

I fear that ship has sailed

At least, now.

We're going down to one raid and one dungeon a year

Barring some anniversary shenanigans I don't see wotm returning

[digital cosmos]

obviously

did u read the wotm statement

[fluid peak]

what

[hollow hinge]

it won't

[digital cosmos]

they have no intentions of remaking it

for the upcoming however much expansiosn

[sleek matrix]

Wat r u on about?

[digital cosmos]

living under a rock or what?

[fluid peak]

They didn't put out a statement about wotm specifically

What is bro waffling about

[sleek matrix]

Yea

Wotm was not mentioned specifically

[digital cosmos]

https://thegamepost.com/bungie-confirms-wrath-of-the-machine-raid-destiny-2/#:~:text=to New Content-,Bungie Confirms Wrath of the Machine Raid Not Returning to,Shifts Focus to New Content&text=Bungie has officially confirmed that,soon%2C prioritizing new content instead.

[sleek matrix]

They have said it many times

[fluid peak]

Ah the random twitter reply from the GCM

[sleek matrix]

They are working on new stuff instead

[fluid peak]

Ofc, THE STATEMENT

[digital cosmos]

i mean

its alot to go on

at least its even mentioned at all

[sleek matrix]

Unless the new content does horrible they wont be going back

[digital cosmos]

^

[sleek matrix]

Which is unlikely they need to start to expand and tell new stories now

[digital cosmos]

that helps a few folks who enjoyed that raid to actually not sit and cope for years straight about it tbh

[sleek matrix]

They will sit and cope regardless

[fluid peak]

yeah that won't stop them

[sleek matrix]

There no reasoning with that crowd

[fluid peak]

The agenda must thrive!!

[sleek matrix]

Every year i see the wrath cope

At this point its a meme

[digital cosmos]

im the biggest wotm coper, but i dont believe itll come back for at least 2 years, if the game survives

[sleek matrix]

The roi just isnt there

It would have to be paid

And that just wouldn't go well with the player base

[fluid peak]

Of course it isn't silly, that's from D1!!

[digital cosmos]

this new expansion has to really be big and exceed expectations

[blazing wasp]

Probably won't ever, unfortunately

[sleek matrix]

They have already said

[blazing wasp]

Due to a bunch of reasons and no good solutions

[digital cosmos]

theres basically more d1 content than d2

[sleek matrix]

Its not an expansion

[digital cosmos]

good 40-60

[fluid peak]

HA

[sick yew]

Lore moment

[fluid peak]

Good one

[sleek matrix]

Its not being called that internally

[sick yew]

Get outta here

To genchat with you all

sho

[blazing wasp]

Content wise? I'll highball D1 and say D1 is about 60% the size of D2

[fluid peak]

But we can hide from the mods here 😔

[sleek matrix]

Its done with anyway

[blazing wasp]

Alex is literally here

[ember storm]

The main reason people like wrath was because it was just the last raid of D1 and one of the generally speaking easy ones

[fluid peak]

Who's alex

I only see xela

[sleek matrix]

Ppl like easy raids

[blazing wasp]

I kinda want wrath cause it looked cool

[ember storm]

If it was refreshed it would be fundamentally changed

All they would do is complain

[blazing wasp]

But also like... An entire enemy race be remade just for a single f2p activity?

[sleek matrix]

Im hoping we get a nine raid

It would be cool asf

[sick yew]

Lets instead discuss the real important topics such as why Reksis Vahn is the coolest Eliksni name to date

[digital cosmos]

bro the mod said stop xd

[sleek matrix]

Theres alot lore wise we dont know

[sick yew]

ong

Kids these days I swear

[ember storm]

False

It is scurv

[digital cosmos]

who is reksis vahn bruh

[sick yew]

Scur-V is indeed the goat

[fluid peak]

Who?

[ember storm]

the hangman

[sick yew]

The Hangman
One of the scorned Barons

[ember storm]

Scorn Baron

[digital cosmos]

nooooo, variks got some og aura to it

[blazing wasp]

Reksis vahn almost sounds like shrimp water in Norwegian

[sick yew]

Variks is the utter goat
Best character by far

[sick yew]

Lovely fella

[blazing wasp]

Or rather shrimp in water, but in the context that its being served as food in water

[digital cosmos]

personally aksis is my goat

for fallen

[fluid peak]

Friend :D

[sick yew]

He actually makes super good coffee funfact

(im lying)

[fluid peak]

Source?

[ember storm]

Me

I said so

[sick yew]

Vex prediction engines told me

[digital cosmos]

on his flaming weapon, he puts a kettle in the middle and boils the water while fighting whatever he does

[fluid peak]

Alright Lakshmi, back in the soup

[digital cosmos]

right in the game

gap*

[digital cosmos]

favourite fallen house?

[sick yew]

uh

I mean House of Judgement has Variks

But House Light is pretty cool too

[digital cosmos]

house of wolves >

[sick yew]

Didnt play d1

[ember storm]

That

That isn’t what boiling water looks like

It’s an incense burner

[digital cosmos]

thats a shame lowk

[digital cosmos]

short story variks was in house of wolves then got skolas put in prison

[sick yew]

You mean he was in house of wolves the dlc

[digital cosmos]

then it all went to shit

[sick yew]

Variks never left the House of Judgement afaik

[digital cosmos]

for the house

[sick yew]

Tbf its been going to shit for a while beforehand

[digital cosmos]

^^

fr]

[sick yew]

He turned on every single one of those factins except the first and last

Funny aint it

[digital cosmos]

it is

[sick yew]

"the Loyal"

[digital cosmos]

so im assuming fallens ur favouurite house

[digital cosmos]

ironic

[sick yew]

Sold out the Wolves for Mara and the Reef, started the riot that would lead to Cayde's death and let Uldren and the Barons escape, helped House Salvation until he realized they were all batshit insane and almost got cooked for stealing the splinter and sending out a distress call

And now he hangs out at House Light like the chad he is

[digital cosmos]

hes a funny case of just bad luck

[sick yew]

More like poor judgement

[digital cosmos]

wink wink nudge nudge

[sick yew]

But he turned aight at the end of the day

[digital cosmos]

variks is a goat

hes a real one

og

[sick yew]

Funfact Variks was actually the first Eliksni ever to be officially invited into the Last City

All the way back in the events leading up to Forsaken

He went there with Cayde to be heard by Zavala

[slow berry]

Variks was never evil, and he was always loyal even if he does have a history of treachery, very ironically

He's loyal to the Eliksni above all else, and a new promise does not unmake an old

He's just incredibly naïve despite all his age

[sick yew]

Very loyal when he ran the prison of elders and forced his kin to compete in blood sport or tortured them or worse

Evil is a rather loose term and not one with which I'd describe Variks, but he sure ain't an angel

[slow berry]

The alternative was dooming the entire race into an unwinnable war, it's not like he was doing it for fun fwiw

Like yeah he gets up to some fucked up shit but so did basically every Eliksni

You gotta make do

[sick yew]

An Elkisni gotta eat god damn it

[sick yew]

But yeah that's what I mean
He's done some fucked up shit but in the end he owed up to his atrocities, whether that's enough is for everyone themselves to decide

When in doubt he could always change his name, start weaving cloth in the last city and pray Lakshmi doesn't recognize him from the good old days

Shoutouts to my man Namrask

[ember storm]

Not really

The prison of elders only operated the way it did because Variks introduced Mara to the practices of house judgment

All Mara wanted was to actually be rid of her cryo collection since it was kind of a bad idea

The whole hunting prisoners for sport and never giving them a hope for life was all Variks’ idea

[slow berry]

yeah but that was Real Eliksni Shit

and the game mode was cool

[ember storm]

Skolas with solar burn says hi

[iron mortar]

I disagree partly, while although destiny lore has alwasy been the best part of the game in my eyes, I know it is supposed to be up to interpretation and such but destiny lore has constantly been confusing and constantly being retconned so I don't see it as perfect or can be even be used as a reason to play since a lot of coolest stuff in the lore we never get to see, one of the reasons why the witness defeat didn't hit for me was because he legit only fully appreared like 2 years eariler, unlike something like thanos in endgame/infinity war where he was built up more. I honestly have no idea where the story is going right now tbh

it seems like destiny is going back to the d2 vanila era where they just do random stories each expansion that have no relation or very little to do with each other

[sleek matrix]

Its because theres been a few writers

Over the years

Certain part of the lore has been retconned or changed they are making it up as they go along but i think with the team they have built up

Im hoping they dont repeat the same mistakes as they did years ago

Even thou they did lay off a few of those that did the recent story stuff

[hollow hinge]

No one knows where it's going because we just wrapped up a saga

[sleek matrix]

Including tfs

[trim grotto]

Per where the story is going: That's kind of the point. They're working on a brand new saga while hitting old topics with Episodes. That said, this Episode has given us a tasty hint as to our future.
Per retcons: I honestly could count what I consider to be true retcons with one hand
Per Myelin: he's been checking out for some time now. It's natural to feel like you want to move on from something you've dealt with for ten years, and has had a big conclusion and finale.

I do not think it is a bad sign.

I think it's just that Myelin is done, and that's okay.

[bleak crow]

why does the witness mention Iron Banner in the Final Shape Campaign?

I thought most of what the Iron Banner did was in D1

unless I’m missing something

[hollow hinge]

It does?

and there were some changes in D2 due to Saladin taking his place in Caiatl's war council

[bleak crow]

oh ok

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[bleak crow]

during the final shape campaign, I swear I remember walking into a room while the witness was trying to gaslight us and it had a giant axe and the iron banner shield

[trim grotto]

The Iron Banner is an event. The Iron Lords were the group.

[jagged badge]

That was in Crow’s mission right?

[trim grotto]

The Witness was trying to tempt us with visions of fame, power, riches. We personally were inducted by Lord Saladin, and we earned the title Young Wolf - as in Iron Wolves, a sort of new generation.

[zenith bison]

What’s Twilight Gap?

[empty fern]

A place that had many brutal battles

On earth
Theres a PvP map in it

[zenith bison]

I know, but why was it important

[empty fern]

Oh

[jagged badge]

The Fallen Houses rallied and assaulted the Last City in the Battle of Twilight Gap. Humanity almost lost

Shaxx famously defied Saladin’s orders to retreat and his team’s efforts brought about a comeback

[trim grotto]

The order to evacuate the Last City had been made. Many thought we had lost that battle before Shaxx retook that wall.

[zenith bison]

Ohh so that’s why they were so worried about the houses unifying in Beyond Light

They didn’t want another Twilight Gap

[zenith bison]

At least I think it was in Beyond Light

[trim grotto]

Something like that. You can still see the battle scars on the City and the Gap today.

[trim grotto]

Eris, could you grab the Devil's Ruin quest? That'll help focus the topic.

[zenith bison]

Huh

Wdym

[trim grotto]

Actually, did Ishtar ever end up transcribing that mission, or is it just on the DLC

[empty fern]

Speaking of damages, the red war burnt banner fall

[zenith bison]

I thought that was just old brick

Or whatever bricks are made of

What are bricks made of

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/quest-parts-long-lost-a-moment-in-time

Ishtar got it as it turns out
Here we go

[empty fern]

The wall?

[zenith bison]

Yeah

[empty fern]

It took a few hundred years after the collapse so

I guess not TOO old?

Nothing pre collapse atleast

[zenith bison]

Wait do you mean the wall in the Cosmodrome because I was talking about bannerfall

[empty fern]

Ah no, lady city wall

[trim grotto]

The Cosmodrome is in Europe, anyway.

Last City is South America.

[zenith bison]

I thought it was also in Russia

[trim grotto]

Anyway watch the video attached to the Ishtar link for Twilight Gap chats with Saint-14

[trim grotto]

Common misconception, but no.

[empty fern]

:3

[zenith bison]

Speaking of wasn’t Saint-14 beefing with Shaxx post-Darkness arrival

[trim grotto]

By "post-Darkness" do you mean post Arrivals/BL? Either way, not really, no. They get along well.

Though, Shaxx apparently owes Saint some Glimmer. Or at least he did a few years ago.

[empty fern]

How long is efrideet gonna take rescuing those survivors

[zenith bison]

Or am I thinking of Saladin

It was something about the Dark Age

[empty fern]

Felwinter?

[zenith bison]

I think so

[trim grotto]

Saladin was beefing with Shaxx for the aforementioned defying of orders during Twilight Gap

[empty fern]

Slapped head off?

[trim grotto]

But they got over that

[zenith bison]

Huh

[empty fern]

Oh he doesn’t know

[zenith bison]

Shaxx must be buff as hell if he can do that

[trim grotto]

Technically, it was a backhand strike.

[zenith bison]

My point stands

[trim grotto]

Shaxx is indeed buff as hell.

[zenith bison]

So why were Felwinter and Shaxx beefing

[trim grotto]

That's a bit of a long story. One moment.

[zenith bison]

Also what is Felwinter’s Lie? Not the shotgun, the actual lie

[empty fern]

Long story

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/remembrance

[empty fern]

Fetching it

[trim grotto]

That's also a fun one
The book answers it better but I can provide the short version if you'd prefer

[empty fern]

(It’ll still be a wall of texts)

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-liar

[empty fern]

(More iron lord images)

[bleak crow]

Oh mb

[zenith bison]

So why were Iron Lords and Warlords beefing

[trim grotto]

Warlords weren't an organised group outside of rare exceptions, generally speaking. They were largely independent Lightbearers, using their power to rule over land and oppress the people who lived there.

I've got to go, but if you want a perfect example, use Citan.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/search/Citan
Read Loose Ends 1, 2, Ramparts, then Lord Felwinter. It'll tell his story.

[bleak crow]

Weren’t they killed by basically Covid 19

[zenith bison]

I just read the lore entry for Citan’s Ramparts

That guy’s a 🦆

[jagged badge]

The Iron Lords?

They were killed by Rasputin using SIVA against them

SIVA is a technology. Self-replicating nanites

[bleak crow]

oh yeah

[iron mortar]

This is why I really wish we had a good insight into Bungie's development team, and understand the scatterbrain nature of it, I know there is a lot at play due to people coming and going but I always think about how the story could have gone if Bungie actually had a full plan from the start with a clear person pushing it into a direction from the very beginning

Imagine how much more the witness boss/defeat would have hit if he was known about or we saw him all the way back in 2014 or 2015, the ending would have been a lot more fulfilling in my eyes

Honestly hot take, I think there should be a d3, where they can go to the drawing board and fix everything that went wrong with d2 and D1 vanila

To this day, I think it is really weird that simple idea of Bungie thinking removing content was a better solution than just making a new game. Especially if by their own words they were starting the game with a new engine rebuild anyway

[trim grotto]

Yes he was
Until he met Lord Felwinter

Anyway that abuse of power, or the potential to, was why the Iron Lords opposed the Warlords. It wasn't all out war with all of them, the Iron Lords offered peace should the Warlords join them, but still.

Lord Shaxx is a bit of an exception. He is no Iron Lord. His full title remains, at his demand, Warlord Shaxx.

[bleak crow]

When did the dreaming city look like this?

has it been like this?
What happened?

[ember storm]

Dreaming city is on a 3 week curse cycle

[empty fern]

Oh, curse week

[bleak crow]

what’s curse week

[ember storm]

The curse continually gets worse as it goes on

Shit gets bad is what it means essentially

[empty fern]

Progressive changes in the location (and other things)

Turns dul inkaru from an orange bar into a yellow bar

[ember storm]

Iirc that’s when it’s meant to start?

[bleak crow]

if it keeps getting worse, will it just

[ember storm]

And then the taken balls everywhere is after

well it’s a loop

[ember storm]

Things go from normal to worse to we’re all fucked and then it zips right back to stage 1

That’s the whole point of the DC

[bleak crow]

oh ok

[ember storm]

The curse is a timeloop

[bleak crow]

I’ve never seen it like this

looks kinda cool ngl

[ember storm]

Never been there much?

[bleak crow]

I haven’t actually wandered around the dreaming city since before my break

I just started playing again not even 3 months ago

I quit at beyond light

[bleak crow]

Is that what riven did?

that’s Rivens Curse right?

[ember storm]

The taken corruption is just what they do

Riven’s curse was the timeloop part

It’s like Groundhog Day but everyone caught in the curse is aware of it, which is arguably worse

All the awoken who know they’re going to die don’t have any way to avoid their fates

They’re stuck repeating the exact same missions and combat at the exact same time day after day

[bleak crow]

Can’t they just

[ember storm]

Nope

[bleak crow]

leave?

[ember storm]

Their actions are locked in

They physically can’t

[bleak crow]

wasn’t Petra at the final fight with witness tho?

[ember storm]

Also if they’re not there to defend their homeland then Savathun, Xivu Arath, and the taken claim all of the awoken’s power and secrets and kill all of them

[ember storm]

She’s not caught in the curse

[bleak crow]

and how are we able to go in and out? Or is it only people who were there

[bleak crow]

Oh ok

[ember storm]

She wasn’t in there when it happened, essentially

Everyone who was in the DC was caught

Their fates are destined to repeat forever

[bleak crow]

Literally Petra

[bleak crow]

can the curse be undone?

I’m assuming no

[ember storm]

It’s been going on for about seven years now

So

[bleak crow]

damn

womp womp ig

[bleak crow]

Does curse week act like an activity thing? Like certain activities happen on curse week 2?

[ember storm]

Petra moves vendor locations

Weekly missions change

Ascendant challenges I think are daily anyway

[bleak crow]

oh so she’s not 236 miles away from spawn all the time?

[ember storm]

She is every week aside from one

[vagrant bridge]

Boys, April 1st is soon/now

You know what that means

Time to spread false information about lore

Get as wild as you want

[next zenith]

April fools is almost over for me, its currently 4:49PM

[dim minnow]

still March 31st for me

[blazing stream]

Haven't played Episode Heresy but the story summary is hilarious.
Xivu Arath: "Oryx, you are revived, you should take back the mantle of Taken King."
Oryx: "I was resurrected? Cringe."
Xivu Arash: "Wha-"
Oryx: "Unbased and Cringe."

[dim minnow]

"You killed me Lightbearer? That's pretty based King."

(or Queen)

[slim girder]

Wonder if oryx will ever get a glimpse of how he was at the time he was killed. Like would he be disappointed in himself or something.

He already hates the idea that he came to sol seeking revenge.

[dim minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhRBeGzyAD8

someone here was asking how Oryx would react if he found out about GotD right?

[sick yew]

Not being the same opinion is natural but there are some things I feel like I should point out
Just because the Witness only appeared 2 years ago at the end of WQ with their face doesnt mean it hasnt been build up properly, hell its been the most crucial character in Destiny's story alongside us. They gave it a backstory, motivation and a good bit of lore to explain who they are and whats up along with recontextualizing what we've been thinking about the Pyramid Ships and Darkness until then
I also dont think D2 retconns that much?
And as to "cool stuff not showing up in lore" idk about you but a lot of d2 written lore is just people talk or concepts that you could never make ingame anyway, you forget that Destiny is still primarily a shooter and standing around watching characters talk just aint what most people are there for and if Bungie focused more on those things then your point about "random side stories" would be even worse. Destiny just came off of a year long buildup towards Final Shape and its imo understandable they aint just gonna start and jump in with the next big bad 5 minutes after the Witness died, the Episodes are to tie up loose ends and slowly start potentially setting up future plots (maybe)

[blazing wasp]

what has d2 even retconned?

[dim minnow]

well the end of Echoes was definitely a set up for future plot regarding the Conductor

[blazing wasp]

closest i can think of was a correction of a misconception because people cannot read the room in a lore book

[dim minnow]

if you'd ask the Cryptarchy they could probably give you an actual answer

[blazing wasp]

probably

[sick yew]

There are probably some retconns with the nature of Destiny lore its bound to happen

[dim minnow]

say since when were you Orange?

[blazing wasp]

Yesterday

[dim minnow]

neat

[sick yew]

But they tend to do a pretty good at explaining them so it doesnt feel too bad

[slim girder]

All in all I think bungie has done a good job with the lore and they've made steps to give us something coherent like when they got rid of sunsetting they basically said shadowkeep was their "new beginning of the story" which makes sense as it was our first interaction with the witness even though we didn't know it.

[slim girder]

Just curious has there been any lore on any member of the nine going on the offensive or getting into a fight? I'm kinda curious what kind of abilities they possess and the new sidearm lore tab suggests they are angry.

So could an angry nine like causes rifts in space or something

[sick yew]

Didnt they beat the shit out of one of the nine once for helping Ghaul?

Or something along those lines?

Im criminally unfamiliar with the Nine cause I dont really care about them

[dim minnow]

they can boil your brain

though you could use your Light to protect yourself from such an attack

[sick yew]

Figuratively or litteraly?

[dim minnow]

literaly

[sick yew]

Lmfao

[slim girder]

They also broke xurs back as punishment iirc

[sick yew]

We really gotte kill those guys one of these days

[slim girder]

If they're going to be making some kind of appearance soon I'm just curious as to what they're capable of should that interaction be a bad one or something.

[sick yew]

I mean they seem like a comparatively neutral force

Maybe we'll get some lore bits next week with the launch of Rite

[fluid peak]

we dont know when rite drops

[slim girder]

Right but even a neutral force could become annoyed with us depending on the things we do in this universe

[fluid peak]

i think?

[sick yew]

Im pretty sure they said it launches with act3 no?

[fluid peak]

its just in act 3

nop

[sick yew]

Oh

[fluid peak]

not with, in

[slim girder]

Rite has no launch date. Just "sometime in act 3"

[fluid peak]

also act 3 drops today im pretty sure

[sick yew]

Yes

[dim minnow]

that wasn't the Nine

that was Orin

[slim girder]

My b. I just know someone broke xurs back

[sick yew]

Does Orin even have free will?

[dim minnow]

at that point she was a Guardian

before she became the Emissary

[sick yew]

I mean as the Emissary

[dim minnow]

it seems that Orin and the Emissary are separate personas

[sick yew]

Is there any Orin left in the Emissary?

[dim minnow]

and Orin can temporarily free herself from the Emissary to reach out to us

[sick yew]

Huh

Interesting

Do we know how the Nine were able to get her under their control? She had the light and all no?

[dim minnow]

it also seems like Orin's other previous lives are there as well

Nasya and Nasan-Ar

[dim minnow]

it isn't really clear

[sick yew]

Mhm

[dim minnow]

and the Light doesn't just make you immune to whatever the hell they did to her

[cunning gulch]

Bit confused

[sick yew]

About?

[sick yew]

Well yeah the Light isnt an all out cheat code but its hard to get an idea of how strong the Nine are ngl

[cunning gulch]

So is eris like a hive queen or something

[sick yew]

Yesnt

Shes human

But she turned herself into a Hive briefly during a prior season

[dim minnow]

she became a Hive God

the Hive God of Vengeance

[sick yew]

And she still utilizes hive magic a ton, evident by her ability to capture the Echo into her throne world

[cunning gulch]

I’m also wondering what happened to the iron lord’s temple from the first game as well

[sick yew]

Its still there

Theres pvp map set right next to it

Vostok

Theres prob not many people there tho since Saladin hangs out with the Cabal these days

[cunning gulch]

Ah I thought I’d be able to walk to it and see all the statues of the iron lords

[fluid peak]

just shiro by himself with his wolves

[sick yew]

Maybe you can oob out of the map but not really

[fluid peak]

poor guy

[sick yew]

Bros living the life imma be real

[cunning gulch]

Anyone want to talk about crows stupid hair cut or talk about how the witness came to be

[sick yew]

Imma be real, crows new cut is far better than the one he had as Uldren

[cunning gulch]

Just stating what cayde said

[sick yew]

And how the Witness came to be? Well basically an ancient race discovered the Traveler on their planet and had their own funny golden age, but they all got super nihilistic and wanted to get an answer to the meaning and reasoning of life as a whole which the Traveler responded to with a resounding "..." so they all got hella mad and merged themeselves into one new being called the Witness

They also disocvered the Veil and said it is now their responsibility to stop the existence of life cause meaningless life isnt alright in their opinion to which the Traveler said "..." and bailed the hell outta there which kicked off the eons long chace all around the universe where the Traveler would visit a planet, create life until the Witness caught up and then bail again

[cunning gulch]

I see

[sick yew]

Thats the rough overview of the Witness

They just mad as hell that theres no grand plan to existence

[cunning gulch]

I see

[sick yew]

Yep, any other questions?

[frigid sparrow]

I vaguely remember being able to visit the vostok temple in a previous season

[sick yew]

Correct

We went there once during uuuuuuuuh

[cunning gulch]

Yeah when does iron banner coming back

[sick yew]

Lore wise? Next time Saladin decides to come down from his fancy ass Cabal warship

gameplay wise? Idfk my guy

[cunning gulch]

That sucks

Anyways

[frigid sparrow]

It's this reset, isn't it? Or next one over

[sick yew]

Its reset today

Act 3 coming out

Lets see how horrible Eris' plan is going to backfire

[frigid sparrow]

It won't, I have faith

[sick yew]

For once I have not the slightest clue how on earth the story will go forward

Deadass anything could happen but I feel like theres some disaster on the horizon

We captured the Echo far to easily

[frigid sparrow]

Xivu and savathun forces gonna try and rock our shit and then resonant knife third parties

[trim grotto]

I think one could argue the Warmind/Warminds thing but not much else actually comes to mind - and even then, this was framed as a misunderstanding, in universe

[sick yew]

Well by that logic the "Voice in the Darkness" was retocnned too but its explained in a way that doesnt break any lore so its hard to call it a retcon

[frigid sparrow]

Typically the act 3's have just been the exotic mission 3x over, but with this seemingly only bringing in sunless cell, it's likely gonna be story mission based

(we also get a new nether area but that's probably just gameplay)

[sick yew]

We got the exotic mission already tbf

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah, and that isn't really designed for the type of "play 3x and that's the story" stuff that encore and kells fall were made for

[trim grotto]

Yeah exactly

[sick yew]

Oryx (Echo) is in quite the tough spot cause he really doesnt trust Savathun so unless he comes around he prob wont ally with her and he voiced his distaste for Xivu aswell

I wonder if we'll get Eris and Oryx aka goat to goat conversation

[next bobcat]

Oryx should give us a cool exotic weapon

There’s no reason why he should aside from it being cool

[sick yew]

He already is a cool exotic weapon wdym

[frigid sparrow]

He wants to be with us. He knows we killed him, and he wants us to take the mantle of the taken king. Savathun has thrown away any hopes of such a thing, embracing her knowledge of the dark's betrayal, and xivu is a hypocritical heretic who isn't deserving

[next bobcat]

Yeah but another one

[sick yew]

Well yeah but we aint gonna continue his legacy

So he'll be pissed with us too

[frigid sparrow]

I mean, bro gave us court of blades

[sick yew]

@trim grotto
Btw do we know just how exactly the Echo of Navigation works? Is it a Warden Servitor situation where the Echo essentially thinks that it is Oryx? Or is Oryx merely a projection/extension of the Echo and it retains its own "ideals"

[next bobcat]

Afaik it’s kind of neither but moreso the first

[frigid sparrow]

It's not literally oryx but it is pretty much oryx

[next bobcat]

It is oryx, but it’s an oryx as the witness recognised him

[frigid sparrow]

It's a memory of him

[sick yew]

Well its obviously not literally Oryx, bros rotting at the bottom of Titan

[next bobcat]

I don’t think we can know wether it thinks it’s the real oryx

[frigid sparrow]

After he had slain akka

[next bobcat]

It’s essentially a clone

[cunning gulch]

Good night people

[trim grotto]

I would say it's like a more realistic Nightmare - a characterisation of a person formed from memory, in this case of the Witness.

[cunning gulch]

Thanks for the info

[sick yew]

No worries

[trim grotto]

It's likely fairly accurate, but it isn't truly Oryx, no matter from when the memories originate

[cunning gulch]

Going to bed because it’s like 5 am

[sick yew]

So the Echo remains its own entity with ideals and whatnot and doesnt believe to be Oryx itself

Cause the Warden Servitor in the prison of elders which I used as an example quite literally thought it was Variks

[next bobcat]

It sounds like it has oryx’s ideals though

As it’s fully based on him

[trim grotto]

That specifically is hard to say. The sentience of the Echoes is... unclear.

The Echo of Riis seemed to form its ideals based around what was best for Riis, for example - despite Riis being something the Witness did not care for, and demolished. I'd say the Oryx manifestation is what the Echo "thinks".
Like an... AI copy.

[sick yew]

the memory of Oryx is by all means a personality yes

[next bobcat]

At least at the time of remembering

[sick yew]

Mhm I understand

Thanks me guy

[fresh zephyr]

Will we get an Octopus tentacle monster reveal today

The Echo was captured really early

So Act 3 feels like a real introduction

[sick yew]

I believe act 3 will start off with some heavy losses

It was too easy to capture the Echo

[fresh zephyr]

Me too, I hope

Exactly

It was way too easy

Way too early

Maybe Xivu Arath

I mean there’s that cutscene from the reveal trailer where someone is slamming giant knives on us

That sounds so bait hold on

😭

[sick yew]

Xivu aint gonna pull shit lmao

shes too scared

But itll be interesting to see who they got locked up in the Sunless Cell

[fresh zephyr]

https://youtu.be/ovo-J5F2rRI?si=uOqcAQt_DNufyfRv&t=58

[sick yew]

Oh yeah

[dim minnow]

we also should be getting Hull Breach

in Nether probably

[fresh zephyr]

OMG SUNLESS CELL IS TODAY

?

[sick yew]

Yep

[fresh zephyr]

YESSSS

ALAK HUL

[sick yew]

No

Alak Hul is in the Throne World

[fresh zephyr]

Aww

Watch Malok be in Sunless Cell

🔥

I hope we keep Oryx, it’s really nice having him around in a neutral capacity

[sick yew]

He can sit right next to Captain Jacobson on the Helm

[clear knot]

Why didn't Savathun go for Stasis or Strand? She already casts abilities from all three light classes, so why not go all the way?

[sick yew]

Probably more of a gameplay thing

Or she just dont wanna

Strand specifically is not just easily lerned

[dim minnow]

I remember there being a line saying that there is something stopping the Hive from using Stasis

as for Strand, maybe Savathun ain't the type to relinquish control

[sick yew]

Any reason as to why?

[dim minnow]

no

wait why am I blue

[sick yew]

Idk what youre talking about

[dim minnow]

I'm blue (da ba dee da ba die)

[trim grotto]

blue just like the fourth light element they workshopped back in 2012

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/blue-da-ba-dee-eiffel65-gif-14330492

[sick yew]

Finally, water subclass so destiny gamers get to take a shower

[trim grotto]

###Missing String: lc en index 50 hash 2025010400 attribution grimoire_damage_types### under the header Ice

rememebr what they took from us 😔 ✊

[jagged badge]

What the fuck

[empty fern]

Gahahahahaa
Get blue roled

[trim grotto]

Roled

[chilly ginkgo]

So I just finished TLS and is this the end? I mean, we finally defeated our greatest enemy.

[keen seal]

Osiris and Zavala are canon ?

No but genuinely is that true

[empty fern]

End of the light and dark saga yeah
BUT
Due to game content
We will now be learning about the winnower, stuff outside of sol
And whatever

[keen seal]

Or was it shaxx and Osiris

I forgor

[empty fern]

It was maya and chiomesi

[keen seal]

[trim grotto]

Saint-14 and Osiris.

[chilly ginkgo]

You're talking about relationship?

[keen seal]

There we have it

[keen seal]

Yeah

[chilly ginkgo]

I truly have no idea about any relationship in this game

I

[trim grotto]

Of this epic ten year saga, yes. Of the game? No. No, there's certainly more adventure to come.

[chilly ginkgo]

I'm just curious. How is that Micah-10 can have 6 ghosts at the same time?

[empty fern]

Stolen :3

[keen seal]

Cade-6 and his hawkmoon are a thing btw

[chilly ginkgo]

I noticed that

[keen seal]

No wait ace of spades

[chilly ginkgo]

Cayde-6 had a very strong attraction to Sundance

[keen seal]

God I’m mushed brain today

[chilly ginkgo]

I felt that during the whole TLS

[chilly ginkgo]

Brainrot