📚lore-discussion

[warm acorn]

then in star crossed it’s like awww so cute

Cute little puppies

[sick yew]

In the loretab I just send the Ahamkara in question took the form of an elderly man for the poker game

[warm acorn]

That’s goated

Lemme read rq

[slim girder]

Awoken marriage is like a harem anime. Do with that information what you will

[warm acorn]

Umm what

Idk what that means so

Ignorance is bliss

:D

[slim girder]

Multiple partners

[warm acorn]

Yea

I mean

It makes sense ig

Awoken be like that

Is Mara sov single

That’s the real question

[slim girder]

Yes

She only loved one person which was sjur eido

[warm acorn]

Sjur Eido was female right?

[slim girder]

Yes

[warm acorn]

Or am I tripping

Fire

And she gave us

Wishender?

[slim girder]

Yes

[warm acorn]

Or rather that was her bow

[slim girder]

Her statue in the shattered throne

[warm acorn]

Ye ye

Did riven kill her

[slim girder]

No

[warm acorn]

How’d she die

[sick yew]

She fell in the reef wars no?

[warm acorn]

What exactly is shattered throne, who is dul incaru, and why is there a sjur eido statue there

Or I guess it’s more like a shrine

[river surge]

Mara Sov is bald

[slim girder]

She died in the reef wars. But it is unknown who was the killer

[slim girder]

It's maras throne world

As the name "shattered throne" implies

And dul incaru is a daughter of savathun

[warm acorn]

Oh?

So did savathun/dul Incaru place the curse on the dreaming city or did riven

[sick yew]

It was Savathuns design

She came up with the plot to curse the dreaming city

And I think she worked with Riven to create said curse

[warm acorn]

Bruh she’s a schemer

[sick yew]

shes the God of trickery and desception for a reason

[warm acorn]

Yes

So why exactly would riven want to put a curse on the dreaming city

Cause didn’t she help make the city

With Mara

[sick yew]

Riven is an Ahamkara
Granting wishes and putting funky little spins on them is basically their food

Remember Mara essentialyl imprisoned Riven and build a device that would make wishes without these side effects

The Wish Wall you can find and (ingame) use to teleport yourself to specific encounters

[lofty badge]

so Poly?

does that mean Mara have several partners?

at oncee

[slim girder]

Yes
Mara doesn't have any partners though

[warm acorn]

So basically Mara imprisoned Riven and made her the wish generator so riven got revenge by building the curse with savathun

[sick yew]

Essentially

[lofty badge]

ye

[river surge]

Who sent Keith to kill Eris huh

[sick yew]

Could be wrong place wrong time and Keith was just there to secure the Dreadnaught

[river surge]

More likely

[next bobcat]

The sundered doctrine warlock robes have cool lore about Keith

[river surge]

Yeah, I saw but who sent her to kill Eris tho, or it couldve been wrong place and time

[next bobcat]

Probably the latter

[sick yew]

It could also be some plot by the remaining leadership of the Witness forces but I dont see why the Psion whos name I forgot would want Eris dead

[next bobcat]

It does seem weird that she killed Eris and not drifter even though she could’ve easily killed them both, probably drifter’s ghost also

[sick yew]

Drifter is a lightbearer yeah

[next bobcat]

What’s his ghost’s name?

[sick yew]

Much harder to kill one of those than Eris

[sick yew]

Doesnt have one
He never named it

[next bobcat]

Cold

[river surge]

I think it was just for the plot and the reveal of Eris throne world tho

[sick yew]

Remember him and his Ghost never really had a good relationship

Drifter resented being a lightbearer for a long long time

[next bobcat]

True

Where can I read up on Nezarec origins?

[sick yew]

I dont think you can anywhere really
Nezzy stuff is rather cryptic and scarce

No detailed origin story like Rhulk who got a whole ass lorebook

Shattered Suns or what it was called

[next bobcat]

Love that book

How do we know what we know?

[sick yew]

Havent gotten around to read it yet

[next bobcat]

Oh it’s so good

[sick yew]

We know that hes been messing with humanities dreams since even before the golden age

[next bobcat]

There’s all the psion worship & stuff

[sick yew]

We know that Savathun killed him during the collapse and cursed his remains

The Pryamid on the moon also housed many of his artifacts and also inherited his power which is why the Nightmares came to exist there

[next bobcat]

Why doesn’t he use nightmares more in the raid?

I’m sure he still has influence

[sick yew]

He wasnt even properly alive for 90% of the raid

He spends the entire time up until final encounter slowly resurrecting and only breaks out of his "coccoon" as we get there to fight him

[next bobcat]

Mmm so is the first encounter the same area as the last

[trim grotto]

The Pyramids were generating them. The Europa one can too. Without a Pyramid on hand, it's possible he couldn't. Or, maybe it's because he was a corpse for 90% of the Raid.

[sick yew]

Exactly

[river surge]

Now

Here comes the question

[sick yew]

His nightmare shit seems to be mostly passive anyway
Just a side effect of his existence

[river surge]

Did Rhulks pyramid house a veiled statue?

[sick yew]

Possibly

[river surge]

Cause we basically see them in all pyramids expect his pyramid

[trim grotto]

We haven't seen it, but it's quite possible.

[river surge]

I mean cmon

Rhulk who has a whole museum and he is a Witness rider

Not housing a veiled statue

[sick yew]

Theres probably one sitting in some corner but its not really relevant or needed cause well its Rhulks pyramid

He saw a shit ton of them anyway
Why keep one when hes got all those other treasures to put on display

[trim grotto]

It's also possible that, as a manned Pyramid, it did not need a Veiled Statue to help control it.

Rhulk was its master already.

[sick yew]

That too

[river surge]

True

Ngl Rhulks pyramid is prob the biggest

[trim grotto]

Well, there was Essence.

[river surge]

Witness pyramid yeah

[sick yew]

the Witness most likely had the coolest pyramid

Makes sense

Btw Savathun never got her own pyramid right?

[river surge]

She dosent need one

Tbh

[trim grotto]

She did not, but she didn't quite make it to DIsciplehood before her betrayal.

[sick yew]

Yeah

[river surge]

Imagine if Rhulk managed to use The Upended to shatter her throne world

[sick yew]

Not a big loss ngl

[next bobcat]

Was essence the RoN ship?

[sick yew]

Yep

[river surge]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Aye. The Witness's Pyramid.

[next bobcat]

Coool

Also, the Rhulk/Leviathan situation confuses me

[trim grotto]

How so

[next bobcat]

Is it the same leviathan that the cabal mention and calus built his ship after?

What is it?

[trim grotto]

No.

Understandable confusion though as there are a number of things called Leviathan

[next bobcat]

Also, the bone in VotD is not a rib at all.

Some kind of limb bone

[river surge]

The Leviathan was basically a proto worm god that acted as a disciple for the arrival of the Traveler on Fundament

[trim grotto]

So, the Fundament Leviathan was a creature that lived within the seas of Fundament, acting as the jailor of the Worm Gods. It was... vaguely described at best.

The Leviathan, the ship, was designed after a totally unrelated, sand whale/worm creature from Torobatl.

[trim grotto]

We do not know it was a proto-Worm like Ahsa. In fact, the little description we do have is decidedly unlike Ahsa.

[sick yew]

Asa is from fundament too is she not?

[trim grotto]

Yes

[river surge]

Yes

[sick yew]

Is it possible theyre of a similar species?

[trim grotto]

It's possible.

[river surge]

Yeah

Thats why I believe it is a proto worm god like Ahsa

It was*

[trim grotto]

And the Leviathan loomed over them, its brow as huge all the continents of their childhood, its great array-fins crackling with the lightning of its life. Booming into the hull of the needle ship in a microwave voice:
Unfortunately, this is about all we know of the Leviathan's description.

That said, it does not sound akin to Ahsa.

[next bobcat]

Yeah about the needle ship

What is it

[sick yew]

Baby Leviathan :)

[trim grotto]

As a being capable of imprisoning 6 Worm Gods, I would expect the Leviathan was not a Proto-Worm, elsewise 6 Worm Gods would likely overpower it.

They being of a more vicious, dangerous, empowered form.

[trim grotto]

A ship from an unknown alien culture. Fundament's continents were not naturally formed, but the shattered remains of planets shattered and scattered across its form.

The Needle Ship was... likely just a remnant.

[sick yew]

Did the Worm gods come to be naturally btw? Or were they engineered and placed there by the Witness

[trim grotto]

That is unclear

[river surge]

Naturally

I think

[fiery rover]

Fundament itself…is? What, like, time before time?

[river surge]

The Witness only made them even worse

[trim grotto]

Gas Giant.

[fiery rover]

I c

[river surge]

So

Was The Traveler placed on precursor planet by someone or was it there since the beginning

[sick yew]

Unknown afaik

[trim grotto]

That is as far back as our history goes. We can't say why it was there.

[fiery rover]

That’s the DEEP end of the lore

[river surge]

We need more lore about The Traveler

[sick yew]

Maybe it was just chilling

Back then the Traveler wasnt chased by anything

[river surge]

Yeah

[sick yew]

So it might just have taken the time to sit down and rest

[river surge]

We need more of Traveler lore

[fiery rover]

Back then maybe it was just….traveling

Thru time or space idk

[sick yew]

I think its more likely that it wasnt traveling

It had no reason to after all

[river surge]

Its insane how the precursors found both the Veil and The Travaler

Idk why

But I feel like it was not by accident

[sick yew]

Considering its believed that the Veil was a part of the Traveler it might have "shed" that part not too far away from the precoursor planet

[fiery rover]

Doesn’t the traveller thrive in inaction? It likes to see things play out and not have a hand in things?

[river surge]

Maybe The Winnower had some influence

[sick yew]

The Traveler refrains from directly interfering
But its mere existence lets life appear so not directly

[trim grotto]

Well, not exactly. It is a gardener. It cultivates planets, helps civilisations have room to grow, but doesn't have direct influence over their decisions.

[fiery rover]

Yea that’s a better wording. Basically what I mean yea. It wants to watch and study really.

Not influence

[sick yew]

See the Traveler wouldnt walk up and tell you how to make a sandwich
It would simply give you the ingerdients to make one and let you figure out therest

[river surge]

See the precursors were idiots

They had everything and they wanted more

[sick yew]

If you fuck up thats fine
It doesnt judge you

[fiery rover]

And doesn’t it do so in severely easily misenterpreted clues ?

[trim grotto]

The Traveler spoke four terms to Humanity.

The Traveler is a sentient being with free will, dreams, hopes, and fears.

The Traveler will save us.

The Traveler will leave us.```

[river surge]

Now here comes the question

Will the traveler leave humanity?

[trim grotto]

It simply terraformed. Gave us wonders. The only misinterpretation came from it warning Clovis to cease his actions.

[fiery rover]

Imma stop it from leaving. We’ve slain gods, you’re next traveller. Dont test me

[trim grotto]

One day, in the distant future. Once Sol is settled, and the Traveler has healed, and changed, and come to terms with its new form.

I expect so.

But... not for a long time.

[sick yew]

We dont even really need the traveler anymore
Light has no "range" so we'd even keep our powers

Need as in have it sit in orbit

[river surge]

Imagine Zavala getting mad and says "Lets use The Veil"

[fiery rover]

When he asked to learn stasis

chef kiss

[sick yew]

They didnt want "more" they wanted "purpose"
A reason to exist but the Traveler could not grant them an answer

[sick yew]

The Veil no longer exists physically I believe
It was reintegrated with the Traveler back in FS

[river surge]

Huh

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

Wait nvm im stupid

Its still on Neumuna lol

[river surge]

I was like

[sick yew]

Just the link was established

[river surge]

Did I miss smth(

?

[fiery rover]

So, when we destroyed all the statues freeing all the beings from the witness, were we killing them, or freeing them from the witness?

[river surge]

Freeing

[trim grotto]

Both, really.

[sick yew]

death is freedom for them no?

[fiery rover]

Death being free yea

Gotcha

[river surge]

"I..I dont understand"

[trim grotto]

We killed them, but they were of the Witness. Even as dissenters, they were it.

Kind of like a Vex. Many radiolaria make up a unit.

[river surge]

Bro was in denial

[fiery rover]

Yea the concept that we turned his internals against him always kinda confused me a little

Like, the room the statues were in, where in existence was that?

[trim grotto]

To continue the comparison, even Vex are like this. Not every radiolaria agrees, they are no pure hive mind.

[trim grotto]

It wasn't a physical realm, exactly. It was essentially a Mindscape.

[fiery rover]

Proof of that is the diff sub family’s of vex too

[river surge]

I still want to understand who or what created the Veil and the Traveler and for what purpose

[sick yew]

They werent always like that keep that in mind

They were all individual people once

They just fused together

[trim grotto]

(Witness, not Vex)

[sick yew]

Oh I read that wrong

Nvm

[fiery rover]

Oh no I’m glad he said that

[river surge]

Maya Sundaresh did the same

[fiery rover]

I mixed it up myself lmao

Started thinking every vex I killed was a someone

[river surge]

Vex are literally idk

[fiery rover]

Microorganisms

[river surge]

More than that

[jagged niche]

can someone help me with this mission?

[trim grotto]

No. This is a lore channel.

[sick yew]

Ever Vex you killed were hundreds if not millions of "people"

[jagged niche]

where should i post it

[river surge]

Wait

How

[fiery rover]

#❓destiny-questions

[sick yew]

;lfg

[candid inlet]

Looking for more players?
Check out #looking-for-group for links to our LFG channels, and further resources including:

• Fireteam Finder (in-game LFG, available in the Roster tab or when launching an activity)
• Destiny 2 LFG Discord
• Final Shape LFG Discord (Requires TFS DLC)
• D2Checkpoint
• Bungie Fireteam Search
• Reddit's r/Fireteam
• Reddit's r/DestinySherpa

[trim grotto]

#❓destiny-questions
Inspect your Ghost. If it is any Shell bar the very first, you can just put a mod in. Shaxx sells one.

[fiery rover]

I always forget about ghost mods. Lmao

[sick yew]

Every individual particle of radiolaria is sorta its own thing
Acting together they can reform, think and act
Imagine it like a shit ton of ants coordinating

Except all these ants are liquid and control a robot frame

[jagged niche]

i dont have shell just normal one and where is shaxx

[fiery rover]

But those ants were never an actual person is what I think we mean

Or were they..?

[river surge]

Vex are prob the hardest to understand in terms of lore tbh

[trim grotto]

Tower Courtyard. The Crucible vendor.

[river surge]

They are so unique so complicated

[jagged niche]

okay thanks

[sick yew]

They are rather complicated indeed

And we havent even factored in how they see time completely different than us

[river surge]

They even saw a future of our guardian being dead

They prob knew we are gonna defeat The Witness

[fiery rover]

We’ve not even gotten enough info on them to figure out answers we all ask questions about them for. It’s all speculation based with lore

[river surge]

Same kinda goes for the Traveler too

[fiery rover]

For a lot

[river surge]

The Veil

The Traveler

[fiery rover]

They start a ton of good stories and then leave us hanging

[jagged niche]

thank you man a lot i just ranked up

[sick yew]

They see all possible futures
Infinite ones in which we win, infinite ones in which we lose

[fiery rover]

I can’t wait to see xivu again

[sick yew]

Knowing which is the right one is impossible for them because they cant accurately simulate the light

[river surge]

Yeah

[sick yew]

Again? We have never seen her lmao

[river surge]

Fr

They only showed her voice as a hive knight

[fiery rover]

Seen her as in, not a literal appearance

[river surge]

When that was the best moment to reveal her

[fiery rover]

But just story content bout them

We haven’t seen xivu in any cutscene? I swear we’ve seen her

[sick yew]

The fact that she didnt show up in person shows shes still scared as shit of dying

We saw her in cutscenes

At least two

[fiery rover]

Like even the art ones

Okay lol

[sick yew]

Only in the drawn cutscenes
No ingame model exists yet

[river surge]

I mean

She might the hive god of war

But she is fr scared to show up in battle

[sick yew]

Hive god of war without a throne world

[river surge]

Proving that she is indeed a coward

[sick yew]

Shes mortal now and thus scared of death

[river surge]

Zavala who literally went to defeat the Witness knowing that might be the last of his

[fiery rover]

The new question now, I wanna know, and it’ll be revealed hopefully in this episode, is where tf did Eris end up? Her own throne world? Did she steal crota/oryx’s (idk which or how it all works)

[sick yew]

You see unlike Xivu Zavala is a fucking baller

[fiery rover]

Bald*

[sick yew]

We dont know but the leading theory is that shes in her own throne world now

[river surge]

When u realize

[sick yew]

But we dont know for sure yet

[river surge]

Zavala couldve done what ever titan does in this game

[fiery rover]

I assumed this too. She’s always had some hive curse so, why wouldn’t she have her own throne world

[river surge]

But now he is limited

Imagine Zavala with consecration and T crash

[sick yew]

Zavala hasnt been seen to use Solar

He might not have mastered it

[fiery rover]

Little did we know he’s just so powerful with it, he took a vow to never use it as to not embarrass Saladin

[river surge]

He prob did but we havent seen him in action with it

[sick yew]

Solar Titans are kinda rare if you look at the lore
The only group that got good with it were the Sunbreakers and they dipped the Last City after six fronts

[river surge]

Thats because they mainly use arc

[sick yew]

What

[river surge]

What

[sick yew]

wdym the whole point of the Sunbreakers were that they specialized in Solar

theyre the Sunbreakers

[fiery rover]

default titans

arc main

[river surge]

I was talking abt titans in general

[sick yew]

There is no such thing as a default subclass

[fiery rover]

i mean arc is the first one we all knew and void

and solar

[sick yew]

Void and Arc are more common because those who teach it remain in the last city making it very available for new guardians to learn

[fiery rover]

thats just where im gettin the default part from.

laymens term

[sick yew]

Titans dont wake up and only know how to use arc
They dont know how to use anything they gotta learn it all from scratch

If a Titan hung out too long with Hunters they might even learn Golden Gun

Nothing is stopping them

[river surge]

Yeah

[fiery rover]

me when warlock doing ground slams with the synaptic spear

[river surge]

I was talking in general that Titan prefer to learn arc

[sick yew]

Id argue they'd prefer Void because Bubble alligns closest with the general beliefs of the Titan order

[fiery rover]

the shield

always seemed the most fitting to me

[river surge]

I still think Void is for Warlock

[fiery rover]

your a BULWARK

[sick yew]

The Titan creed is very focused on protection of the lightless, thats why they were the heroes of six fronts
So it makes sense for the defensively sided ability to be preferred

[river surge]

Yeah

[fiery rover]

titan protec

[river surge]

Average titan

[fiery rover]

then you got your code of the missle users...

xD

[river surge]

bruh

[sick yew]

Me

then you got me

My defense is a strong offense

i think id be cool to have more guardians that utilized various other classes abilities in lore

[fiery rover]

titans with sweet business and that chest rig

ACCURACY BY VOLUME OF FIRE!

[sick yew]

Actium War Rig

[fiery rover]

ignoring the gamebreakingness of it YES....id love complete freedom of all 3 classes, subclasses, and abilities to just mix mash and match things up

[sick yew]

I dont mean ingame

I just want lore on it

[fiery rover]

lmao warlocks just cannot learn how titans and hunters jump VERTICALLY

[sick yew]

Like if I were a guardian id obviously be a Titan but I also would 100% learn Goldie for the coolness of it

[fiery rover]

arc warlock code of the missle could be totally viable

[sick yew]

Golden gun but its a rocket launcher

[sick yew]

Reading more of the timeline rn

Doesnt imprisonment go against the Sword Logic?

Shouldnt Oryx kill Alak-Hul to uphold said logic?

[fresh zephyr]

I actually really love the new cutscenes

The art drawn ones were cool, but they got so old and formulaic

The new style is a fire evolution

[fresh zephyr]

Alak Hul is one of the most horrifying encounters in Destiny, maybe Oryx just wanted to sharpen his enemies lmao

[sick yew]

Yeah but Alak Hul fought Oryx and Sword Logic dictates that the loser (Alak Hul) does not deserve to exist after a defeat

[sick yew]

Which one

[strong tendon]

Oryx had a lot of prisoners. And we know he sometimes deviates from the sword logic as he wanted vengeance for his son. Which is dumb. Because the dead deserve to die

As savathun said in season of the witch to xivu “oryx was a heretic and so are you”

[sick yew]

Yeah I always kinda assumed the thing with Crota was an exception

seemingly not

[strong tendon]

It seems none of the hive gods can truly stick to the sword logic 100% of the time

[sick yew]

ironic

[strong tendon]

Because it’s a flawed logic

[sick yew]

Its like they knew they got pranked by the worm gods

[strong tendon]

Didn’t savathun tell xivu? And she just didn’t care

[sick yew]

Siblings amiright

[strong tendon]

I think savathun is the only one of the three who cares that they were lied to

Which again is ironic seeming as she’s the god of lies

[sick yew]

Did Oryx even know?

[sick yew]

Any lore nerds in chat I call upon you
Can I get a rough rundown of who Chalco Yong is?

They appear to be a hidden or some other ally of Ikoras

[jagged badge]

Yeah, she’s a Hidden agent with a fairly close and personal relationship with Ikora

And now she may have taken over leadership from Ikora even

[sick yew]

Oh neat

On the topic of Ikora, I just got to reading some red war era lore and I didnt know that Ikora also tried to regain her light from the Shard of the Traveler but it didnt work....why?

Why did the Traveler grant us the light again but not Ikora

[jagged badge]

I know I'm not allowed to say that to the Warlock Vanguard or to IKO-006, but given that we're under double-trouble encryption, I'm going to say it anyway. How's your whole mess in the City? Glad I missed all that....```

```What is this thing we do, Ikora? Are you my one true love, am I yours? We agreed it's not love like most people have love. Nobody's getting married or turning up arm in-arm at the Crimson Ball. It's a special and radical kind of friendship, right? That's what you said. An endogenous need to strike the lies away from another soul. It's the promise to seek truth in each other without mercy or fear, but always with compassion.
So: speaking mercilessly and fearlessly, but with compassion, where is our friendship now? What does it mean? Does it mean that I check in on you every few years and otherwise just let you do your thing? Is that your nature—to draw away forever while I chase after you and nag to be sure you're all right? Friend, you are not Mara Sov, and I am not one of her cadre. I'm not doing that. I want to see more of you, and I want you to want that.```

[sick yew]

Huh

Interesting

[sick yew]

@jagged badge Do you have an answer for this aswell?

[jagged badge]

That I don’t know, I’m afraid

[sick yew]

Unfortunate

Ill wait till Mael or Dova are online

maybe they have an idea

In other news

man I forgot Taeko-3

She and her group who went down there as a squad of nine, got picked off one by one, watched a Wizard rip the light out of my friend and fiddle it into some kind of crystal

Shit was d2s version of the "Whether we wanted it or not"

[sick yew]

Huh

I didnt know Drifter was involved in the construction of the Sundial

[slim elk]

Don't think they actually confirmed what Drifter provided for it

[sick yew]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-sundial

He literally shows up after its completion for a chat with Osiris

[slim elk]

Yeah. I know he was there

I'm talking the whispering core

[sick yew]

Do we know what exactly that core is?

[slim elk]

Ahamkara related maybe

But far as i know they never elaborated on it

[sick yew]

if its Drifter its more likely to be of taken origin no?

[eager trout]

What's the Sundial?

[sick yew]

A time machine

[slim elk]

Time machine Osiris built through unknown and heavily implied sinister means to try and find a way to save Saint from his fate

He failed and decided to leave it around on Mercury for anyone to find

[sick yew]

Well lateron in season of dawn with our help he did find the correct Saint and brough him back to our reality

[slim elk]

I've always found it bemusing that despite how close Osiris was with Saint he couldn't figure out a basic connection with Saints idol and the player guardian

[sick yew]

With infinite possibilities its unlikely that the solution was so close at hand probably

[slim elk]

Wasn't like Saint couldn't identify us

Said we would be Crotas killer among other things

[sick yew]

There are infinite timelines in which we kill Crota

Osiris was literally searching through an ocean trying to find the right drop of water

[slim elk]

Yep. But there was a key moment that never seemed to occur to Osiris.

The whole deal where Saint first runs into us on Mercury and we inspired him to keep fighting

[lofty badge]

"But siblings we were lied too! We can choose our own path!"
Xivu and ghost of Oryx: autistic screeching

[slim elk]

Time travel is unusual even for us

[sick yew]

If you go to the log he actually visits that precise moment but leaves shortly beforehand

[slim elk]

Can't blame Oryx for that one. He's a diehard believer in the Sword Logic. Even calls out Xivu for heresy lol

[sick yew]

Had the Echo stayed a bit longer he probably would have found his moment

[sick yew]

Except for when it comes to his son

[slim elk]

Even the Echo-Oryx is perplexed on that one

[lofty badge]

yeah, Xivu is a bit of a coward now as she is the only one not to show up in person for their reunion XD

[lofty badge]

yeah he was like "Why would i go to war over the fact i lost a offspring who proved not worth existing"

[slim elk]

And that's what I'm pointing out, Osiris didn't bother to check how our guardian saved Saint despite probably knowing of our interference. Quite the overlooked factor

[sick yew]

Okay that one is kinda insane
I wonder if they were still walking when Sagira was slain or by the time we actually got Saint out

[slim elk]

I'm thinking her worms gonna be eating her eventually

[ember storm]

Her armies are still running around invoking war

Tribute lines are still active

[lofty badge]

yeah given idk if the tithes her still few loyal armies are feeding her are enough

[lofty badge]

true she is hiding more to the fact we can 100% beat her

[slim elk]

And?

It's a known fact the worms are never sated and always demand more. Eventually the tithe lines wont be enough

[sick yew]

Are you sure?
Saint told the story of this exact moment but the Saint we rescue from the infinite forrest is not the same one who initially ventured into it in this timeline, as Episode 1 details there are slight divergences
Maybe this is a Saint who we merely helped with the Fallen but never showed the image of the last city of how it would look centuries later
Or the initial Saint never told this exact story to Osiris in full detail, he could have left out the part where our ghost showed him the future

[ember storm]

That only happened to Savathun because the DC curse generated imbaru every waking moment of every day

Unless Xivu actually gets a massive win and a boost to her tribute then her worm’s appetite won’t grow in return

You can just ration it out if you want to

[slim elk]

I'd argue a few massive losses would also add up and screw her over. Like how Oryx got screwed over by getting unlucky and some of his champions dying

[ember storm]

Which are acts of war

And still give her tribute

That was the entire point of Seraph

Xivu was willing to kill a vast portion of her troops just to get an immediate boost

[slim elk]

She's not invincible heh

Eventually we can find out where's she hiding. Or maybe... huh that would a twist

Maybe Echo-Oryx will tell us where the coward is hiding

Went as far as to call Xivu a heretic..

[lofty badge]

yeah

by her saying that we are not worthy of Oryx's throne when we are the ones that killed him i sopouse that does mean heresy?

[slim elk]

Echo oryx straight up says its heresy in a line

[lofty badge]

yeah

[slim elk]

Xivus hiding and letting her armies do all the fighting only works if she remains hidden

A direct challenge to Xivu and her running from it won't be an "act of war".. it's plain old cowardice

[lofty badge]

yeah

i kinda headcanon after she became mortal and ran into hiding that several of her armies deserted from her

either doing their own thing and worshipping the sword logic on their own and what not

[slim elk]

That is Hive Logic, the whole basis for a strike actually

Navota in the Disgraced strike

[lofty badge]

yeah if your leader is a weak coward will you follow em?

[lofty badge]

yeah cause she ran?

[slim elk]

Yep

And as Xivu didn't do a thing while we had a whole "final battle" vs the Witness where even Savathun showed..

Perfectly fits if some of Xivus tithing lines have been disrupted

[strong tendon]

As of right now who is the most powerful hive? Savathun?

[ember storm]

By pure actual hive power probably Xivu

Savathun relies solely on outsmarting her enemies, strength wise she’s basically just a full fireteam stacked on each others shoulders

[empty fern]

Hey waltz
Guess what

[ember storm]

What

[strong tendon]

Yeah but xivu can die. Savathun has two backups (Immaru and throne world)

Savathun pops golden gun. It’s joever

[empty fern]

Xivu had a few war moons

[sleek matrix]

Her throne world won't do shit

[ember storm]

Only one

[sleek matrix]

She has a ghost

[ember storm]

Her throne world isn’t a real one anymore

[strong tendon]

What you mean it isn’t real

[empty fern]

I eated it

[sleek matrix]

She doesn't have a hive worm anymore that's in our parasite

[ember storm]

It was collapsing the moment she died as a mortal in the end of Lost

[sleek matrix]

[ember storm]

She doesn’t have any connection to the ascendant plane anymore

She had to rebuild the physical infrastructure with light

It’s just solid ground now

It doesn’t do her any good

[strong tendon]

So. Where is it?

[ember storm]

In the ascendant plane still

But it’s not a real throne world anymore

It can’t help her at all if she dies

It also can just like be destroyed

The scorn are trying to capture the wellspring and destroy everything

[empty fern]

[strong tendon]

When it gets vaulted in 2035 it’s getting destroyed

[empty fern]

Wonder what fikrul was doing during that

[ember storm]

Hiding, they mention it

He was building up his own scorn ranks

Which is why he has knights show up in WR

[empty fern]

I see

[ember storm]

He tried to get all of the fresh scorn over there in his ranks

But then hefnd scooped up his troops too

[strong tendon]

That’s the thing with scorn. Always being controlled by something else.

[ember storm]

Well they would be able to have some autonomy

[sleek matrix]

Scorn are puppets without fikril now

[ember storm]

Fikrul’s Knights were capable of speech

Fikrul specifically stagnated their growth because of his obsessions

Witness just turned the purple ones into actual mindless corpses

Remember back in lost they started their own gladiator pit without any outside input

[strong tendon]

Remember when the throne world scorn were still yellow for like the first two weeks

[empty fern]

Oh yeah

Their own culture thing

[ember storm]

why say this

[empty fern]

Idk, I thought we were comparing power stuff

[lofty badge]

Savathun also have her whole lucent brood who uses both hive magics and light

[empty fern]

Whole

Luzaku

[ember storm]

You think Savathun cares about all the troops we captured in Risen

Probably not

[empty fern]

We only captured like, 4 didn’t we?

[ember storm]

No there were repeats

[lofty badge]

Savathun has a buttload of hive guardians to throw at us like cannon fodder kek

[eager trout]

Oh

[eager trout]

Did anything ever happen with that?

[slim elk]

Yep

Season of the Dawn

Bunch of Psions found it and started messing with history

Yet another mess of Osiris we had to clean up

[lofty badge]

yee

[slim elk]

Savathun used him as a puppet for a reason

Osiris was quite the arrogant fool who could never admit fault lol

[eager trout]

No one would be suspicious because he's already prone to causing trouble

[slim elk]

Guess he was trying to rival Clovis

[slim girder]

Not really it was just a perfect opportunity to infiltrate the city. Osiris had just lost his ghost to xivu araths forces and after that his mind was weak enough for savathun to make the switch and imprison him while she went to back to the city using his face.

[slim girder]

Osiris was never prone to cause issues. He was exiled because people were afraid of his research into the vex.
But he never actually caused any kind of serious problem.

[warm acorn]

I’m so back

Who are Aisha and shayura

[sick yew]

Shayura is a guardian who went through a lot of shit

Initially guardians starting to use stasis was what tipped her over the edge

[slim girder]

Aisha is the guardian who watched over shayura

[jagged badge]

Guardians who were Trials regulars. Shayura had a whole mental breakdown and turned into a murderous Light zealot

[sick yew]

She went out and killed a bunch of guardians that were known to use stasis, like properly killed them

And then she ran into a lucent hive and just completely lost it

She then went back to the last city for rehab

[warm acorn]

💀

So “shayura’s wrath” is yeah

And Aisha’s embrace and Aisha’s care

She’d hate us

[sick yew]

I think shes slowly coming around

Reed was another guardian who was part of her fireteam

Hes the Titan you see the Witness turn into a bunch of floating blocks in the opening cutscene to Lightfall

[warm acorn]

I don’t even remember that. Wait in the last city?

Like in the market

[sick yew]

No

Hangon

[warm acorn]

We only have one weapon with reed right? Reeds Regret? What did they regret

[sick yew]

That was him

[slim girder]

In the lightfall cutscene where you see the witness "slice" that one guardian

[warm acorn]

Ohhh ok

Yooo

[jagged badge]

That was all of them

[warm acorn]

Rip reed

[jagged badge]

Shayura and Aisha were also there in that assault

[warm acorn]

But we unsliced them right?

[jagged badge]

But their Ghosts survived

[warm acorn]

Since the witness died?

Or

[slim girder]

No
Dead dead

[jagged badge]

That’s not how it works

[warm acorn]

:/

[sick yew]

Wait wait Shayura was too?

[warm acorn]

So reed is a goner

:(

[slim girder]

Loss of ghost means a guardian is mortal

[sick yew]

Aw man I thought we'd get more of her story having to deal with the loss of her fireteam

No more emotional torment for her

[warm acorn]

😔

[sick yew]

Sadge

[warm acorn]

I like the trials weapons named after the guardians

It’s cool

[jagged badge]

The Witness did that with its own strength and abilities basically a year and a half before enacting the Final Shape

And it was the Traveler who reversed the effects of the Final Shape specifically, before we stopped it fully from being carried out

[warm acorn]

Reed probably used bolt charge and storms keep

[eager trout]

Not directly, at least

[warm acorn]

Now how exactly do we kill the witness? Like I know in excision we have 12 guardians shoot light beams into it

But like

[slim elk]

He's quite negligent

The Sundial is pretty obvious why

[warm acorn]

Is that all it really took

[slim girder]

We unmade it

[warm acorn]

Because it was made in darkness?

[slim girder]

Yes

[warm acorn]

So we unmade it with darkness?

[jagged badge]

No

[warm acorn]

Or light

[slim elk]

But a strike back in Curse of Osiris is directly a result of the crazy Warlock remaking a vex mind we destroyed to keep it as a "pet"

[warm acorn]

0-0 CoO

[slim girder]

@warm acorn to be more specific the dissenters helped us find a way to get inside and actually wound it. After that it retreated to monolith and we then had to cut it off as if you noticed it had a snake like form.
Then 1 final time in excision we dealt the final blow

[jagged badge]

The Witness was created by the amalgamation of an entire species fusing their minds in Darkness. However, we discovered that the Witness had dissenting voices, growing in number. We then discovered that in Darkness, we could use the Traveler’s Light to destroy these dissenting voices

Piece by piece we unmake the Witness

[warm acorn]

Okay yeah when we destroy the statues in the campaign

Wait no

In that mission

And in excision

[slim girder]

If you've done salvations edge if you look at the aftermath after beating the witness you'll see a stump.
We essentially cut the head off a snake

[warm acorn]

The little like

Box thing

?

Where you focus the weapons?

[jagged badge]

We destroy a few in Iconoclasm before the Witness cuts us out, but it shows us at least that it works and it can wound the Witness

[warm acorn]

Yeah that’s the mission

[jagged badge]

Then in Salvation’s Edge we break the Witness’ hold on the Traveler and prevent the Final Shape

[slim girder]

No further in front of the platform.

[warm acorn]

Ah dang I’ve never noticed that

I’m ngl watching worlds first salvations edge was crazy

And then going into excision

[jagged badge]

And finally, in Excision, we press the attack on the Witness and destroy many more of its dissenting voices, unmaking it to the point we are able to directly channel the Traveler’s Light as a beam to destroy the Witness entirely

[serene swift]

Why does the witness have 6 buttons on its chest that make it vulnerable, is there a lore reason for that or just the mechanic they chose

[warm acorn]

Is that light beam from ghost a one off thing because our ghost wasn’t looking too hot after it used that

But it was op

[strong tendon]

The ghost was already being destroyed by the witness’ influence but yes the beam is probably a one off. Because it completely destroyed it

[warm acorn]

So this subjugator we see kill eris and who’s popping up in the story

Are they the first subjugator?

[strong tendon]

It’s not been actually confirmed I don’t think but all signs point towards it.

[jagged badge]

It was a specific instance of the Traveler giving us this power because it was needed

It was probably a very costly expenditure of energy considering how the Traveler was wounded and is healing

[warm acorn]

About time the traveler did something

[jagged badge]

Like in the Collapse? And the Red War? And Arrivals?

And Lightfall?

[warm acorn]

What did it do in arrivals and lightfall

[slim girder]

A lot

[warm acorn]

Idk what it did in the collapse cause I wasn’t there for it

[strong tendon]

It reformed and pushed back the darkness in arrivals

[warm acorn]

In the red war it got wrecked by ghaul

[slim girder]

In lightfall it literally fired a giant beam

[urban zenith]

Why this guy help us, like, he ran away from every other planet but why with us he remains? Also there's an embodiment of Darkness like the Traveler is for the Light? Cuz the Witness isn't the embodiment of Darkness right?

[lofty badge]

dude missed the cutsecnes

[slim girder]

And then destroyed him at the end

[jagged badge]

It broke free from its cage and eviscerated him

[strong tendon]

In red war it got wrecked because it broke free and slaughtered ghaul who had become a god like being of light

[warm acorn]

💀

I don’t even remember that

[jagged badge]

The Traveler isn’t a he. It’s either it or sometimes she or they. Never he though

[warm acorn]

Don’t we fight ghaul?

[slim girder]

Yes

[warm acorn]

And he’s using supers

[jagged badge]

It helps us because it simply wants to be benevolent and promote growth and complexity in the universe

[warm acorn]

And we have no light

[strong tendon]

Yes. But he is reborn as pure light. And then the traveller kills him

[lofty badge]

we did have light

[jagged badge]

To help species reach new potentials

[urban zenith]

My bad

[lofty badge]

lore wise our guardians killed a buttload of red legion during the red war

[jagged badge]

The Traveler stayed with us because it realised it had to make a final stand

[urban zenith]

but the Witness doesn't want exactly that? Meaning for a meaningless universe?

[jagged badge]

It couldn’t keep running

[urban zenith]

peak character development

[strong tendon]

The witness wanted perfect stillness. A universe with no pain or suffering because nothing would be happening.

[warm acorn]

True

[jagged badge]

The Traveler doesn’t impose meaning. It doesn’t tell species what to do or anything. It gives them the means to grow, but it also allows them choice

It hopes that people choose true

[warm acorn]

Raiden shogun be like

So is the traveler mad at us that we use darkness

[jagged badge]

And it does try to warn Clovis against meddling with the Darkness but

[jagged badge]

No

[warm acorn]

Good :)

[strong tendon]

It tried to tempt the vanguard by promising them it would freeze them in their favourite moment or life dreams

[jagged badge]

We use the Darkness for good. We use the Darkness to prove the Traveler’s ideals right

[warm acorn]

:D

[strong tendon]

But we are also inadvertently proving the winnowers logic right by doing so right?

[urban zenith]

I don't think it's simple like that "oh I don't want to suffer anymore"
The Witness just couldn't bear the existential crisis anymore

[lofty badge]

you mean the sword logic?

[urban zenith]

and was trying to find a meaning for their life

The Witness should read Camus

[warm acorn]

The witness should chill out

[strong tendon]

The sword logic closely follows the winnowers ideals and philosophy yes

[warm acorn]

So the winnower follows sword logic. What does the traveler follow

Axe logic?

[blazing wasp]

bomb

[warm acorn]

;)

Light bomb

[blazing wasp]

i mean, i guess bomb, though i dont believe the traveler coined that at all

i think it was mara?

[warm acorn]

Wait bomb is the actual name?

[blazing wasp]

bomb logic, yes

[warm acorn]

Bomb logic?

[urban zenith]

lol

[warm acorn]

Oh I thought you were joking lmao

[urban zenith]

same

[blazing wasp]

a sword is simple, yet effective
a bomb is complicated, lots of moving parts, and hard to use properly

[lofty badge]

i mean it shot a giant terraforming laser beam to try and defend it self so i guess

[lofty badge]

true

[warm acorn]

I see I see

[blazing wasp]

but the appropriate construction and application, and it is dramatically more potent

[lofty badge]

its bomb logic was making us and going "Now go my loot goblins, KILL EVERYTHING THAT THREATENS YOU!"

[warm acorn]

Yes

When the bomb logic makes us the best sword logic champions

[blazing wasp]

Bomb logic is, in simpler terms, arguing for complexity

[lofty badge]

yeah

[blazing wasp]

which is what the traveler encourages, complexity, free will, life

[warm acorn]

Imagine if we subscribed to sword logic

[blazing wasp]

"a gentle city ringed with spears"

[lofty badge]

we dunked on the hive logic a lot

[warm acorn]

We did

We were like, “we’re better at this than you, but we don’t accept”

💀

[blazing wasp]

shes not telling us to be pacifists, but to like... not go and kill everything on sight because why not

[lofty badge]

"NOO YOU NEED A SWORD!"
Me uses a grenade launcncer instead

[warm acorn]

We do kind of do that though

[blazing wasp]

canonically, not exactly

[warm acorn]

When the hive knight with only a sword tries to hit me

[blazing wasp]

also most of the enemies we fight are as a form of defense or counteroffensive

[lofty badge]

legit

[warm acorn]

And I just disintegrate it with a golden gun shot

💀

[blazing wasp]

the cabal we fight? at war with us and trying to kill us
the hive we fight? those too
the vex? youre never gonna fucking believe it, but they actively wanna kill us too

[warm acorn]

Can we talk about when cause was fighting in the prison of elders and used multiple different hunter supers

[blazing wasp]

house dusk are like the only enemy faction thats not outright actively seeking our annihilation

[slim elk]

Saint puts it best
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TQuD3Ckj0&pp=ygUYRGVzdGlueSAyIGd1YXJkaWFucyByaWlz

[warm acorn]

House dusk is?

[blazing wasp]

and they're very much still hostile

[warm acorn]

Just normal fallen?

[strong tendon]

Pretty much houseless fallen

[warm acorn]

Gotcha

[lofty badge]

common fallen outlaw or bad guy

[warm acorn]

Ye

[strong tendon]

They’re the old houses from d1 who formed under one banner because we decimated the houses

[warm acorn]

So is house salvation still a thing now or?

[blazing wasp]

maybe the only instance where my argument does not apply

[warm acorn]

House of wolves 👀

[strong tendon]

Yeah but it has no leader. Eramis abandoned them and the witness is dead

[blazing wasp]

the red legion still exists too

[warm acorn]

I guess they could join house of light under mithrax

[urban zenith]

I think the Vex aren't searching that also, cuz if they wanted too they could just simulate humanity, the guardians and the Traveler in speedlight until they find something to counter us

[warm acorn]

Since they’re buddies now

Okay so like at this point though

[blazing wasp]

They cannot.

no, seriously, they cant

[slim elk]

How so?
Saints reciting all the atrocities the Fallen did to humanity while Mithrax was having an innocence play

[blazing wasp]

they keep trying

[warm acorn]

Why don’t these enemy species wanna just be on our side

Like the fallen

And the vex

[blazing wasp]

Most of the atrocities he claims are overblown, and he generalises the entirety of the eliksni

[slim elk]

Some are just that deluded like Eramis

[strong tendon]

They don’t want to they hate us

[blazing wasp]

that entire season was saint having a character arc from "violent xenophobe" to "gentle giant" towards the eliksni

[strong tendon]

And they hate house light for living with humanity

[warm acorn]

But why

[urban zenith]

fucking plot armor

[blazing wasp]

no

[warm acorn]

Cause paracausality I think

[blazing wasp]

are you familiar with the term "causality"?

[slim elk]

Greed, envy, pride. The list goes on

[warm acorn]

You can’t simulate paracausal beings

[blazing wasp]

there's an actual ingame explanation provided for why the vex cannot simulate us

[strong tendon]

Before house light, the eliksni hated us because the traveller chose us and they were jealous because it abandoned them and let their home get destroyed pretty much

[warm acorn]

I think

“Guardians make their own fate”

[blazing wasp]

it is correct

[warm acorn]

Atheon :’)

[strong tendon]

House salvation still think this way

[blazing wasp]

causality means "cause and effect"
something that, well, everything irl operates on

in destiny, the light and dark offers "paracausality", sidestepping some requirements for an effect, a different cause to give the same effect

[warm acorn]

Ok but like we’re just one person😭

If they didn’t hate us

Maybe they’d become like luxent hive

[strong tendon]

Wdym? We’re not the only guardian

[warm acorn]

And our best friend Luzaku

[blazing wasp]

this puts a spanner in the works for the vex, how do you simulate something that does not obey cause and effect the only way you know

[warm acorn]

I know

[strong tendon]

They hate all guardians and humanity because the traveller chose us

[warm acorn]

They’re just jealous

[urban zenith]

they have a different way to interact with the universe

[strong tendon]

Exactly

[warm acorn]

Envy really be hitting hard

[blazing wasp]

the vex? no, not really
paracausality? kinda, yes

[warm acorn]

But after all these years of us slaughtering them, like wake up y’all

[strong tendon]

Well more like “why haven’t you abandoned these guys and let their home get destroyed like you did us?”

[urban zenith]

It's stated by Clovis Bray I think

[blazing wasp]

the vex are the most simplistic enemy faction by far, its why they're so terrifying

[urban zenith]

wdym

[blazing wasp]

clovis barely understood shit for fuck about the vex

[slim elk]

Pride won't allow that lol

See how many Cabal went outlaw after we became equal allies with Caital

[blazing wasp]

more than most for his time of course

[strong tendon]

Well their goal is simple. Everything must become vex

[blazing wasp]

but compared to what we know now it is different

[warm acorn]

They’re vexing enemies

[warm acorn]

I just wanna be friends :(

Not with the vex tho

[slim elk]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=He6CO2osqnU&t=1s&pp=ygUXRGVzdGlueSAyIG9uZSBndWFyZGlhbiA%3D

[warm acorn]

I wanna be friends with more eliksni

[blazing wasp]

the vex are simple, they're a large colony of microorganisms in an evangelion that fights using construction equipment and a glorified future prediction thingabob

[warm acorn]

And more cabal

And more hive

[blazing wasp]

no culture, not really any language, no individuality, nothing

cold, mindless, simple, and there's no end to them.

[warm acorn]

I wonder if we’ll ever get dread homies

[urban zenith]

their concept is very interesting, it reminds me of SCP
they could be better explored

[strong tendon]

Leadership in the enemy factions currently is. Pretty much non existent. We have xivu, savathun, yirix, the resonant knife and maya

[warm acorn]

Who’s Yirix

[blazing wasp]

The only SCP related one could draw from the vex is their biology

its a common misconception that the vex are robots

[strong tendon]

Psion flayer who’s commanding the dread and shadow legion

[warm acorn]

Ope

[blazing wasp]

but the white stuff in their center? thats the vex
its not their organs, or blood, it is the vex

they're a collective of microorganisms in a fluid state that work together to pilot a mech

[warm acorn]

They’re microorganisms that wear suits of armor

:D

Yes

[blazing wasp]

its like pacific rim but with way too many pilots

[warm acorn]

Lol

[strong tendon]

It’s like how our brains wear our bodies

[blazing wasp]

and when i say construction worker btw, im serious, all of their units are dedicated to construction in a sense

there are no combat vex frames, and they're kicking our ass

[strong tendon]

We don’t know what wyverns are do we?

[blazing wasp]

we have a very good idea

[strong tendon]

They’re not combat frames for sure

[blazing wasp]

are you familiar with the heavy duty construction machinery called a "boring machine"?

no, boring in this context does not mean the opposite of fun

boring like digging

[strong tendon]

When maya returns she better have assumed control of some combat frames so we can actually see them

[warm acorn]

Wait there’s no combat frames?💀

[strong tendon]

I have not

[blazing wasp]

none we know of, likely none at all

[warm acorn]

Why do all of them have guns that one shot us then

What are Minotaurs

[strong tendon]

No the ones we’ve met are all architects and engineers, etc.

[blazing wasp]

Nailguns shoot nails, and can hurt, and kill

[blazing wasp]

basically a larger construction worker, maybe doubles as a manager.

we know hydras work like a form of "manager"

[warm acorn]

What about praetorians

:~)

[blazing wasp]

praetorians are just a form of minotaur with a specialised role

[warm acorn]

And that is?

[blazing wasp]

all of them are unknown, but among them appear to be working the confluxes in the vault of glass

[warm acorn]

What about atheon :o

[blazing wasp]

a scientist, basically

[warm acorn]

What about the Templar :o

[blazing wasp]

that i dont know, probably some kind of manager under atheon, helps oversee the vault

[warm acorn]

What are the oracles

[blazing wasp]

iirc they're basically just vex, their purpose involves atheon fucking around with the timestream

what they do in the raid is basically remove us from time.

[warm acorn]

Blah blah shoot the wrong one and die

Yeah

[strong tendon]

Pretty much

[blazing wasp]

rather, shooting the wrong one is a failed attempt at biohacking

[warm acorn]

Kinda wild how like

Wiping in a raid is gg

Since it’s a darkness zone

[blazing wasp]

darkness or not, we'd be donezo if we wipe from the oracles

[warm acorn]

Yeah true

[blazing wasp]

they alter the timeline so that we never even existed at all.

[warm acorn]

Yea

[blazing wasp]

they dont just kill us, they annihalate us from the fucking noosphere

[warm acorn]

That’s the best way to deal with the guardian

Why aren’t the vex doing that

[blazing wasp]

the vault of glass was the only place they could do this

[warm acorn]

Seems like they don’t know the Strats

Wait why

[blazing wasp]

dunno, something about the location

im very unsure but i believe i recall the sol divisive being involved?

[warm acorn]

Probably

[blazing wasp]

meaning it could be related to paracausality

[warm acorn]

What about the sanctified mind

[blazing wasp]

p sure its like... a priest?

the sol divisive are weird, different

they worship the witness

[warm acorn]

What about consecrated mind

Hang on no shot cyclopses aren’t combat frames

Bruh they look like turrets

[blazing wasp]

some kinda fucked up surveillance

[blazing wasp]

cameras

a construction site having cameras and minor security is different from a workforce dedicated to combat

their main purpose is surveillance, overwatch

ah, looking at their grimoire, a cyclops is some form of sensor/beacon

likely a multipurpose communication, surveilance, etc

The goblin "slap rifle" is a high tech swis army knife for construction work, having navigation, network repeaters, etc
The hobgoblin "line rifle" is just a welder
The goblin/minotaur/hydra Torch hammer are just jackhammers
The wyvern warp lance is a play on the irl construction tool "thermal lance" that make it work like a very big drill

likely intended to make tunnels

[serene swift]

What’s the role of the 2 vex bosses in spire?

[blazing wasp]

gather the information in spire of the watcher, then blow it up to remove any evidence

said information was related to neptune and the veil located there

[serene swift]

No like specifically the bosses, ones a siren so communication but was Percy just there to dig into the Centre of the spire

[blazing wasp]

given that the wyvern was making a beeline for the reactor, it was probably making it blow up

it was having some kind of interface with the reactor when we got there

harpies are generally the scouts and recons of the vex, so it probably went to the spire for communication reasons

maybe to transmit the information

[strong tendon]

The vex are so difficult to write for because they have no personality

They have a chance now with maya but even then

[sick yew]

Damn why did no one tell me that Hazardous Propulsion literally has us carry failsafe around

Thats so damn cute

[warm acorn]

Slap rifle sounds like mida multi tool

[eager trout]

I want one

[next bobcat]

Yes except mida multi tool is some kind of paracausal thing

From another time or something I forget

[eager trout]

MIDA Multi Tool is from another universe

[next bobcat]

Related to Paraverse? Ik there’s MIDA stuff in marathon

[eager trout]

Yeah, it's the same MIDA

What is Divinity?

[valid nova]

Hey, I'm a longtime player who has played since day 1 of destiny 1 and played through everything up until forsaken, but pretty much fell off of the franchise since then. Would it be worth it for me to come back and play final shape just to see the ending? Is there a good payoff?

[trim grotto]

I would very much say it had a good payoff, personally, but I'm not sure how much impact it would have on you if you haven't played for... Six and a half years.

[eager trout]

You'd have to play...everything that came before it

[valid nova]

Yea haha do you think it would be best to watch like a lore summary of the story from forsaken to this point?

I would be down to play it but I dont wanna buy a bunch of old content 💀

[eager trout]

It was recently all for 30$ at Humble Bundle

[trim grotto]

I think that's probably up to you. The content is still played and updated, but there would also be seasonal content that's no longer available.

[eager trout]

Might still be there, I think

[valid nova]

the only thing i see is the legacy collection which has everything i think: Lightfall Standard Edition*
The Witch Queen Standard Edition*
Beyond Light Pack**
Shadowkeep Pack**
Forsaken Pack
30th Anniversary Pack
Pit of Heresy Dungeon
Shattered Throne Dungeon
Grasp of Avarice Dungeon

but its 70 dollars....

so im not sure its worth it

[trim grotto]

Must have just missed out on the sale

[sick yew]

Hey Mael

My homie my man

[sick yew]

@trim grotto can you explain this one to me

[valid nova]

mmm i see

well i think ill js watch a yt video or something

thank you guys for the help!

[trim grotto]

Later
My break is over and I go back to work
Try me in, uh... Like, 10 hours, haha

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

I have the answer

[sick yew]

Go on

[ember storm]

No

[sick yew]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-darling-casper-darling-control-gif-20224191

[ember storm]

Anyway it’s something to do with the vision we got, spitballing here but iirc the traveler had to be very selective and only allowed/was able to let us do it

[sick yew]

So the traveler just assumed that we'd be doing a better job than Ikora of all people

I mean "plot gotta plot" would be a viable excuse I guess but them showing that Ikora tried and the traveler was like "lol nah" is an odd decision

[eager trout]

I meant the Light and Dark saga pack, which has everything. It should go on sale at some point, probably.

[eager trout]

I mean, Ikora having what is essentially a cult disguised as secret service probably works against her.

[sick yew]

I highly doubt the traveler gives 2 shits about that

Especially considering the spot it was in

[jagged badge]

?

[sick yew]

Also yeah the hidden arent exactly like evil or anything

[hot cypress]

so do guardians actually recover like in gameplay? for example when they get shot does their ghost somehow heals them?

or is this only done for gameplay purposes but not included in the lore?

[ember storm]

Ghosts heal their guardians using light yes

You can see it in the FS vision cutscene where Cayde talks to Sundance, Ikora gets shot by a hydra during the endless night (doesn’t die) and her ghost heals her

[sick yew]

Technically they also showed this ingame all the way back in Warmind when our ghost patches up up after Xol reveals and almost burries us in snow

Or before Sundance got shot in the big Forsaken cutscene, he pulls her out and goes "can you help me out here little buddy?" cause hes in kinda rough shape

[hot cypress]

i thought he just said that as a way for him to get out of here like go to orbit or something

[ember storm]

No he was just beat up

[trim grotto]

'twas to heal

[ember storm]

unbeknownst to Cadell, twould be his lasteth mistake

[eager trout]

The fact she's willing to do such a thing may not be something the Traveler likes.

[trim grotto]

The Traveler advocates for free will and freedom of choice, for good or ill. It's why the Hive have it.

[cedar dew]

how the hell did Oryx's tablet carver end up in Rhulk's vault

[sleek matrix]

good question

[dim minnow]

Rhulk just likes to steal shit

[eager trout]

Yeah, but the Hidden are essentially the opposite of that (at least based on the oath)

[cedar dew]

and no one noticed him taking this giant carving tool from the dreadnaught? 😭

[eager trout]

Why didn't they make him sound British?

[dim minnow]

though I don't think he could have obtained it after Oryx's death since he was pretty much forced to stay in Savathun's Throne World for the most part

[cedar dew]

maybe oryx and rhulk were just chill like that

[dim minnow]

unless he ws able to grab it during one of his few moments of freedom from there

[sleek matrix]

or savathun had it first

and rulk stole it from savathun

but i doubt it from the reaction she had

[dim minnow]

she would have known that Rhulk took it

[dim minnow]

I doubt it

[sleek matrix]

she sounded stun locked rulk had it

[dim minnow]

Oryx considered the Witness a "charlatan"

[sleek matrix]

yea

and i dont think rulk and oryx were chill like that

[eager trout]

Why?

[sleek matrix]

which also means

oryx knows the winnower

for sure

[dim minnow]

the Witness forced Rhulk to stay in Savathun's throne world after he screwed up with the Ahslids

[dim minnow]

well yeah, the Winnower canonically referred to him as "my man Oryx"

[sleek matrix]

wait rulk fumbled?

[eager trout]

With the what?

[dim minnow]

there was a species the Witness wanted recruited called the Ahslids

[warm acorn]

Rhulk is a fumbler

Chronic fumbling

[dim minnow]

so it sent Rhulk there, but the Witness wanted Rhulk to be very discreet about it

[warm acorn]

Is Rhulk a guy?

[sleek matrix]

yea rulk being discreet

witness should of send nez instead

💀

[warm acorn]

Rhulk = red hulk

[warm acorn]

Chicken mommy Nezarec

[dim minnow]

however, Rhulk ended up going too far and he ended up accidentally making them kill eachother in nuclear war

until only one Ahslid was left

[sleek matrix]

damn

[dim minnow]

Uun, who Rhulk considered a failure prior

[sleek matrix]

that kinda sounds like earth

tbh rulk was bound to go far after what he did those his own people

[warm acorn]

🫡

[eager trout]

How

[sleek matrix]

and what we know about his experiments in SD

[warm acorn]

What did he do to his own people?

[dim minnow]

he took some of them and trained them to be assassins

[warm acorn]

🤨