📚lore-discussion

[jagged badge]

I only posted one you already posted

[trim grotto]

Most of the entries involving Prak'kesh involve the silly stereotypes
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/search/Prak'kesh

[trim grotto]

True but I posted from two events

You only did one

[jagged badge]

I posted all three classes’ from one

[hybrid sorrel]

Lore sharing competition

[jagged badge]

Mael’d win haha

[sick yew]

Karl remains the biggest Gigachad Titan that has ever lived and I will not hear otherwise

[trim grotto]

That... is an incredibly niche reference, Alex.

[sick yew]

Almost as niche as myself being canon but ey

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

Investigator Maier my beloved

[sick yew]

Karl deserves more screentime tho
Wheres his lorebook smh

[hybrid sorrel]

how much lore isn't accessible in game?

[sick yew]

Theres some lore entries on bungie.net

And the books

And ig the stuff from the various collectors editions

[trim grotto]

Well, there's the Collector's Edition lore, the... few comics they did... the old D1 Grimoire cards, some web post lore, and some unique Grimoire entries from the books they sold.

Plus actual dialogue or such from old content no longer in the game naturally

[sick yew]

Depending on whether that last part we included we either got a bit of lore not accessible ingame or a shit ton

[fresh zephyr]

Consecutive fire rate means that the wyvern just shoots at its normal fire rate but for longer periods of time?

[pallid thunder]

Ok genuine lore/in verse rules question here

Weapons and armor the guardians use are physical and not made of light right?

So if for example I gave the guardian Uru metal for their armor would it actually make them more durable or just be worthless because light is what mainly protects us in-game?

I'm just curious because I saw a fan fiction for D2 and it was grimdark but had some marvel stuff, and I'm just curious how it would work.

From the Wiki regarding Uru metal: "The main property of Uru, as discovered by Tony Stark, is its natural affinity to magic. Uru is not only easy to enchant, but also absorbs magic like a sponge, redirecting it and enhancing the natural attributes of its wielder. A suit of Iron Man Armor fueled by Uru was able to channel a full blast of lightning from Mjolnir and Odinforce into a blast from its Unibeam"

[jagged badge]

Guardian’s armour is physical gear protecting them, and they are protected by the Light. I believe one explanation of this is sometimes bullets hit the armour and then don’t

[slim girder]

Against solid bullets and physical attacks it's our armour that protects us. But from other more foreign energy attacks I believe it's the light that protects us but the armour would still play some part to it I'd assume in dissipation of energy and stuff like that.

I do wish we had more comprehensive view of how guardians are protected but it's really up to speculation unless there's some lore entry I'm missing or have forgotten about.

[pallid thunder]

Based on what you believe do you think Uru metal would enhance a guardian's defence or would it be redundant by virtue of the light itself?

[slim girder]

The closest thing to uru in Destiny would be something like hadium. That also absorbs and stores energy it's exposed to.
It could definitely aid in the defence

[blazing wasp]

Pardon the maybe silly question but, is uru metal particularly light

Guardians don't wear heavy armor because they don't really need to

They have second chances, they can die

They just need to die a bit less, being mobile and offensive is more valuable

[pallid thunder]

It was light enough that Hawkeye could carry it easily when it was forged into a bow for him and it felt no different than his normal bow

[blazing wasp]

The thickness of a bow, and armor, is very different

[slim girder]

Very different uses

[blazing wasp]

Not to mention how much of the thing consists of that metal

A bow being made purely out of strong material is a horseshit bow

Even mostly out of strong material makes a bad bow

especially modern bows

[pallid thunder]

Those are good points.... Trying to remember a comic moment that showcases Uru weight

[blazing wasp]

Ah, going by some examples, we can assume it's heavy as hell

Not comically heavy but

Very much heavier than most if not every material frequently used in armor

[pallid thunder]

Ok I got one I can remember, once tony crafted a suit to enhance Steve Rodgers and it had a chest plate made of Uru and he didn't seem any slower

Now he is peak human but I don't know how that translates to guardians in terms of strength but I would assume they would be as strong or stronger than captain America

[blazing wasp]

Being a similar weight as iron alone makes it questionable in desirability

Mind you Guardians have to sprint and jump around

Plate armor makes you unable to get up if you fall, maybe a guardian could, but they'd be slow as hell in it

[blazing wasp]

Captain America is beyond peak human, him and his kit is literally quoted to defy physics

[pallid thunder]

In the new runs he is consistently peak human.
They typically keep him lower than spiderman nowadays

[blazing wasp]

Also uru metal weight varies, a lot

[pallid thunder]

So here is another, this is a suit made for wolverine and he was no slower wearing it

[blazing wasp]

Going by more examples, thors hammer is heavy like that due to magic, or is lighter because you're worthy

[pallid thunder]

He is also peak human, they kept him similar to his MCU counter part

[pallid thunder]

So the enchantment works in a specific way, it has no variable weight, in lore the hammer is either impossible to move or as heavy as a normal hammer depending on your worthiness according to Odin himself.

If you can budge it you can lift it is how it's generally portrayed

Of course cosmic beings like hela or ego can lift it because they match or exceed Odin but that's just that

I just realized the witness would be able to lift it because he is definitely equal to Odin in terms of power

[blazing wasp]

To put into perspective, movie Thors hammer is slightly bellow 20 kg according to Marvel

But is dense as living hell

(which makes no sense but that's not why we're here for the movie)

[pallid thunder]

Uru is forged by the energy of a neutron star typically so that's honestly a low-ball to what it should be

It should weigh millions of Kgs

[blazing wasp]

In essence: the value of uru metal in D2 will vary on how easy it is to actually obtain and how light it actually is

[pallid thunder]

I see.
Thank you for the information

[fast bone]

For fucks sake

I hear ||fikrul|| is the mission boss

Whyyyyy

I don't wanna kill him

[lofty badge]

Can Revenant Scorn be Perma kill with weapons and abilites that disintegrate them?

[sick yew]

Alright whos already cooking up sick beats

[trim grotto]

Unless they have that totem, yes, most likely.

[trim grotto]

Well, it is kind of the point of the Episode. Plus, he comes back to life. Kinda his curse.

[fast bone]

why are we still fuckin fighting him then

so pointless

can we just get on neutral terms

[trim grotto]

Because he keeps raising an army of zombies, converting living Eliksni into Scorn, slaughtering other Eliksni, hating us with every fiber of his being, blaming the Guardians for killing his "father" and his Barons, the Traveler for "stealing" him from us, so on, so forth.

He's a very angry, hate fuelled creature.

We even tried to talk to him. It didn't go well.

[fast bone]

i could talk some sense into him

[trim grotto]

Besides all of that, he has an Echo.

Fikrul is abhorrent and it's high time we put him down for good. Somehow.

[fast bone]

that's puss puss talk

he's a great character

he just needs to not be so angry

[trim grotto]

Even Crow couldn't talk sense into him, and Crow is the one with history with Fikrul.

Besides, nobody is particularly interested in forgiving the guy who turns people into zombies.

Not even good old Misraaks

[sick yew]

I think hes a pretty chill dude actually

:)

[trim grotto]

Yeah but you're not real

[sick yew]

Tbh tho his ||very last line kinda stings a bit ngl||

[trim grotto]

Haven't actually seen it
Haven't had a chance to run the mission yet

[sick yew]

You can make banger music

The notes Mael

What do they mean

This is a joke btw

ik what they mean

[trim grotto]

How dare

[slim girder]

Run it. Banger cutscene.

My friends are currently making the most awful music ever with the notes

[sick yew]

Im shreading it rn bro

[ember storm]

Weird boot, Orange Juice, A, house, angry birds slingshot

[sick yew]

Listen to this shit

We making it out of the Reef with this one fellas

[slim girder]

Waiting for someone to make free bird

Also ace in PvE. Noice

[sick yew]

Hell yeah

[fresh zephyr]

is there lore saying why weapons fire arc, solar, and void projectiles?

[slim girder]

Golden age energy based weaponry. Not really lore just advancements in tech.

[fresh zephyr]

same reasoning for enemy weapons too?

[slim girder]

Pretty much. It's simple but it really is just "because video games"

We're in the future so laser weapons for everyone

[fresh zephyr]

i guess so

[lyric karma]

who let bungie cook
why nezarec got deleted from mithrax with just shiny staff

[fresh zephyr]

Why do the regular vex goblins have different heads in destiny 2

[trim grotto]

Different collectives, mildly different frames.

[fresh zephyr]

so this isnt sol collective?

[trim grotto]

When D2 launched, all the old Collectives merged into one greater one - Sol Divisive aside, of course.

This ultimate collective didn't exist prior to D2

[fresh zephyr]

oh

so then why does the sol divisive not have the classic frames

[trim grotto]

Vex change frames. Look at the Descendant for example.

[fresh zephyr]

i see

[ember storm]

I mean it’s more so what the weapon is can be categorized by the broad definition of the elements themselves

Like fallen shrapnel launchers are literally shooting molten shards of scrap, so it’s under the umbrella that solar is

It’s worth noting that the elements that we use as subclasses are distinct from elements naturally occurring in the universe

There’s no particular reason why they wouldn’t exist, so it’s not like a case needs to be made for it

By all accounts humanity is the least advanced civilization in the Destiny universe

[limber heart]

q: i want to start reading game lore whete do i start

[ember storm]

That really really depends

Do you want to read the story as it released for a more natural experience or do you want to start from the events that take place earliest in the timeline

Either way the thing I’d recommend using is the Ishtar collective website

[limber heart]

i wany the first way
the second rune all the fun😂

want*

[shrewd ravine]

I haven’t been paying attention ngl, why does mithrax or whatever he’s called have Nezarec in em?

[slim elk]

Nezcafe

Somehow he got infected with Nezarec when it was Osrisis who drank the distilled remains of Nezarec

[shrewd ravine]

Having it be Osiris would be kinda cool

[trim grotto]

When Misraaks purified the relics of Nezarec to distill the Darkness used to wake Osiris from his coma, Misraaks took on Nezarec's curse in the process. It's been slowly brewing within him ever since, finally showing up now.

[versed orbit]

osiris already had his possession arc

[shrewd ravine]

||So did Eramis just cleanse Misraaks of nezzy in act 3? Is Nezzy fully gone now or..||

[trim grotto]

I have no idea. I haven't had a chance to log on.

[empty fern]

Poor mael

[shrewd ravine]

Oops-

Sorry

[jagged badge]

||Mithrax notes that he feels a part of the God of Pain will always linger within him. A hint of Discord. But he’s not at risk like he was this episode anymore||

[shrewd ravine]

Ahhh

I’m guessing that he’ll just keep Nezzy at bay via the echo or whatever from now on

[slim elk]

Yeah. Spoilers for the ending
||Fikruls is perma dead, Eramis ran off with the Echo after cleansing Mithrax. Skolas may be the new Scorn leader. Mithrax declared Kell of Kells||

||Of course Eramis is still in fully "blame humanity for everything" mode.. So.. not the best outcome||

[slim girder]

||Very happy that our guardian actually does something for the ending, that really felt like putting a stake into a vampires heart||

[frigid sparrow]

||so how the fuck is the mindbender alive||

||well, """"""alive""""" but yknow||

[slim girder]

||part hive part scorn. His throne world wasn't a true throne world in a sense more like his house. You can't truly kill scorn until you get rid of the being that can bring them back||

[hazy veldt]

Nezarec officially most neglected character in entirety of d2

Possession of one of the biggest backgrounds

Literally space boogeyman

Allat for 1 mission and raid when he got legit 10 mins screen time and gets folded

then when cast realised his soul is virtually immortal he gets evaporated out of mithrax via echo (definitely plot substituted) power

[trim grotto]

well he certainly needed to die in some form of paracausal manner

[hazy veldt]

If he is really dead

Biggest char flop in this game’s history

Idc this is just sad

I was mad enough bc of rhulk having absolute cinema backstory and having 15 min screen time, like damn bungie really putting that much effort and making lore so amazing for character that’s gonna appear and die within one player interaction

But we never heard of rhulk before wq so I could let that slide

[hazy veldt]

But bruh

that’s jus wrong

ps: I apologise for size of my rant

[dim minnow]

Mithrax did say that Nezarec is still in there

but it seems like he is far too diminished to really be a problem for the time being

[hazy veldt]

I mean there’s no way they kill fear itself right

[dim minnow]

who knows, maybe a group of Nezarec cultists manage to get him out of there

[limber heart]

do you have like a list for the lores to know what to read from the beginning

are any one of you have a list or somthing
is it in the game?

[trim grotto]

The game has 10 years of lore spread across comics, web posts, physical editions, weapons, armour, bounty tabs, lore books, and more. Things can be disjointed, or elaborated on later. It's far easier to read things by topic.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net
The vast majority of lore can be found here, on the Ishtar Collective. It even has a timeline.
You may also find interest in this, though I'm unsure exactly how up to date or accurate it is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/lorecompendium/

[limber heart]

wow
that will help me alot
thanks

[hidden pebble]

what was going on during tommy’s matchbooks lore?

[lofty badge]

||so...did we perma kill Fikrul..?||

[sleek matrix]

yes

[lofty badge]

got cha

[sleek matrix]

||by injecting the tonic we turned him into a regular elinksi||

[lofty badge]

||right, replaying the exoitc mission after finishing the story feels weird now given he is alive again there||

[sleek matrix]

gameplay reasons

[lofty badge]

fair

||but i wonder what will happend to the Revenant scorn now, since idk if they can make new scorn without Fikrul and they can't turn fallen into Revenants anymore with the echo gone||

||but then again during this episode a lot of fallen was turned into Revenant scorn so there is no doubt still a lot of them||

[slim girder]

It's possible they could be reversed with eidos tonic research. No clue where we go from here though.

[lofty badge]

yeah possbly

[fresh zephyr]

what happened to fikrul

[lofty badge]

have you finished Revenant story yet?

[fresh zephyr]

i dont play destiny

i just follow the story

[slim girder]

|| Dead. For good this time ||

But don't talk it about it much because spoilers

People are still doing the story

[fresh zephyr]

got it

[shrewd ravine]

How did Rhulk meet the witness?

[final lantern]

Is the Tinette asteroid that Carybdis flung into Fortuna the same as 687 Tinette?

I’m curious to know how big the asteroids are in the Reef. The lore entries make them seem like they can house cities

[trim grotto]

Most likely. Reef lore mentions a number of real asteroids. Even the Dreaming City itself is built upon 4 Vesta.

[final lantern]

Got it. So these are like kilometers wide?

[final lantern]

Oh dang, I just looked up the size of 4 vesta and that’s huge. 330 miles? That’s plenty for the dreaming city

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-shattered-suns
The final two entries of this book show it. The Witness was watching Rhulk. It empowered him, allowed him the strength to destroy Lubrae, and then saved him.

[trim grotto]

Exactly as stated

Ghost drew a long knife across the back of his armored fist. It sang coldly.

"—every single Hunter worth their salt is either out on a mission to save the world or spending their time away from the City. To avoid the Vanguard Dare."```
No Hunter wanted the job of Vanguard, so they were hiding.

[ember storm]

Also if you’re confused, Tommy is the name of the ghost and Ghost is the guardian

[hidden pebble]

that was a small mindbender lol

but would zavala or ikora force a hunter to take the job?

[ember storm]

They physically can’t

[hidden pebble]

beyond bombadiers lore i can’t remember much on the vanguard dare

[ember storm]

The vanguard dare is literally just a dare between hunters

Its also not an official policy by any means

Cayde’s “dare” being that whatever Hunter killed him gets saddled with his responsibility wouldn’t actually hold up in the vanguard

[hidden pebble]

uldren wasn’t a hunter, let alone a guardian

so why were hunters hiding?

[ember storm]

Because the fact that Cayde’s dare ended up invalid, they just all ran from the slight possibility because they hate the job

[trim grotto]

They weren't hiding for fear of death. They were hiding for fear of losing their freedom and being shackled to the duty.

As Eris once said, Hunters belong beyond the Walls.

[hidden pebble]

big responsibility bad

kudos to cayde for handling the job for that long

[trim grotto]

There's a reason Hunters used a Dare for the position. It was the honour of the oath that kept them to it.

[ember storm]

I mean guardian classes are chosen by the individual specifically because of their nature and how they approach things

[trim grotto]

He lost the Dare. His best friend Andal died due to Cayde's mistake.

[ember storm]

To be a hunter is to be out in the world doing your own thing at your own leisure

[trim grotto]

It's why Cayde wears his cloak

[ember storm]

Cayde stayed mostly out of guilt than anything

Nobody could’ve forced him but Cayde himself decided that he ultimately lost the bet that put Andal in the position to begin with

The bet was about killing Taniks who ended up not actually being dead, so

[empty fern]

Reading slayers fang lore is gruesome

[hazy veldt]

istg if osmium king will be 3rd echo and suddenly they make xivu arath become good im dropping this game

[trim grotto]

You're making yourself mad over something that hasn't happened.

[hazy veldt]

if

[trim grotto]

Besides, even Savathun isn't "good", and Xivu is fanatical about the Sword Logic, even moreso than Oryx was.

[hazy veldt]

god of war for a reason i guess

[ember storm]

I don’t really get what people are even talking about with “redemption arcs”

Who even got a redemption arc exactly? Because if they say crow they’re missing the entire point of the character

Caiatl was never really an enemy, we forced her into an armistice before war even broke out and relations only improved since then

[blazing wasp]

There's only really been one attempted "redemtion arc", no? eramis?

but even then we knew mostly from the get-go she initially had good intentions with new riis

while the redemption arc was done poorly imo, it wasnt exactly surprising, shes not someone was never in the business of not being a bad guy

[ember storm]

I honestly don’t even really see it as a redemption arc

Like would you consider Vader’s last moments as a redemption

Granted I haven’t played act 3 at all

Did we just ||let Eramis run free||

Cause that would suck

[blazing wasp]

i wont elaborate further

you should play act 3 first

[ember storm]

Time is spent on Metaphor atm

I don’t particularly care about Eramis specifically

[hazy veldt]

she is pretty much somewhere out there with echo out on silly business

[ember storm]

Alright I’ll just treat her like team rocket

[hazy veldt]

but since we were given info that somehow echo can create worlds (😳) i assume shes going to try to do something with riis

since the travelers light is only thing that can undo finalization, maybe echo can reshape riis into its pre-whirlwind state

[final lantern]

Was Fundament an ocean world like our ocean? Or something else

They talk about a potential god wave

[dim minnow]

it's a gas giant with various floating islands

[final lantern]

Interesting

[dim minnow]

these islands I believe come from various planets that collided with Fundament

[final lantern]

I’m curious how those islands stay afloat

Is it the engines that keep them there?

[final lantern]

That’s correct

[trim grotto]

It's a bit of both
An ocean beneath the gas layers

[final lantern]

That’s pretty neat

I don’t think I fully grasped what the deep is though

I understand their plunge into the planets core, and their encounter with the Leviathan, but what is the deep really?

[trim grotto]

Darkness. The Deep is a term for it as The Sky is for Light.

[dim minnow]

though there is still some discussion on whether or not Deep refers to the Witness, Winnower, or Darkness in general

[trim grotto]

They just also literally plunged deep, to make it an apt comparison

[final lantern]

Oh. So it’s just the dark? And I think I heard somewhere no one knows that the dark really is

[final lantern]

I might be reading out of order, but I haven’t gotten to the witness and rhulk yet

[dim minnow]

we don't get introduced to them until Witch Queen

though lore wise they have been around longer than the Hive

[trim grotto]

If you're reading the Books of Sorrow, that's from D1
Witness and Rhulk from Witch Queen

[final lantern]

Yes, but should I read those before reading Books of Sorrow?

[final lantern]

Yeah, ik that much. I didn’t know if I should read chronologically though

[trim grotto]

Not necessarily
All you need know is that Rhulk stole the Worm Mother and set things in motion

[final lantern]

Since they did get the larve for the proto-hive

So I can continue on from house of wolves to books of sorrow?

[trim grotto]

When you say chronologically, do you mean, like... All lore? Not just the BoS?

[final lantern]

I started reading the lore entries on Ishtar collective and started with the order released, house of wolves, books of sorrow

But what I meant chronologically is the order the events theoretically took place, starting with the witness and rhulk if I’m not mistaken?

[trim grotto]

Reading things this way may lead to a lot of backtracking. Even to this day we learn lore about old topics.

[final lantern]

That’s what I was afraid of

[trim grotto]

I usually recommend reading lore by topic rather than in a form of order.

[final lantern]

It is fun though to jump around

[final lantern]

Well I must say the reef wars and Books of Sorrow are very interesting so far regardless. I’ll keep this in mind

[errant tapir]

How did a fallen captain able to teleport?

Sort of mimicking vex minotaurs that can teleport

[dim minnow]

Fallen have teleportation technology

Captains carry personal ones

[errant tapir]

Oooo

[dim minnow]

teleportation between factions/races works differently

I don't think Fallen's teleportation tech is ever elabortaed

we use "transmat"

Hive use the Ascendant Plane while Awoken sort of do the same, but they also utilize Ley Lines

Taken are similar from the looks of it

Vex rewrite history

[trim grotto]

It probably is a short range transmat itself. If Mask of Bakris is anything to go by (yes, I know we use Light and they don't but still), we could call it a Shift.

[dim minnow]

I don't think all of our Transmat is strictly Ghost-powered

[brittle dirge]

So i just finished act 3 ||what happened to skolas? Why didn’t he appear? Why did every baron except the rider show up? (Rifleman and machinist in coe) (hangman, trickster, bomber, mindbender, fanatic (fikrul) in final mission)||

[trim grotto]

I meant the Mask of Bakris shift

[dim minnow]

maybe Skolas will show up in the Kell's Vengeance Contest of Elders run

[slim girder]

Given the name I'd also thought about that. Like could we get an OG prison of elders kind of experience

[sly berry]

Didn’t play act3 or any of the last seasons to be clear but I thought we killed the Barons in forsaken to avenge Cayde

[brittle dirge]

They got scorned

[slim girder]

They're scorn. They'll just come back

[sly berry]

Oh I still thought they die for good

[brittle dirge]

They weren’t always scorn

[slim girder]

They were when they were the barons.

A scorn dies fikrul can just bring it back again. That's the whole deal of the scorn.

[sly berry]

Oh. right.

[odd dove]

So now do they just stay dead since we killed fikrul?

[sly berry]

Seems like a cheap cop out to make content

[slim girder]

||yes. We truly killed fikrul this time and so far only the witness and riven had the power to bring in scorn and they are dead as well. So we have officially stopped the creation of the scorn.||

[slim girder]

No different than old enemies coming back as taken.

[sly berry]

True

[odd dove]

Well thank God, so that means we can hunt skolas and possibly some others he resurrected?

[slim girder]

Yes.

[sly berry]

Looking at you taniks

[odd dove]

W finally no more annoying scorn

[odd dove]

Lmao, except for kelgorath

[odd dove]

Gross

No more of them lmao

[frigid sparrow]

the main reason why killing the barons in forsaken is a big point is because of what'll happen when they become scorn, and we see it happen now. If fikrul were to revive them over and over again, not only is it gonna take a lot of dark ether (since they're big eliksni barons who need lots of ether to maintain their bodies, and that dark ether isn't gonna be so readily available when he's actively being hunted down), but it also pretty much makes them... nothing. The scorn don't have personalities, they don't have desires, they can't speak, they can't be themselves, they're hyperviolent zombies that kill, murder, and destroy. Fikrul gets mad because he's the only scorn with that willpower, and reviving the barons he considered friends would've been just as effective as bringing back any other big fallen.

[dim minnow]

well it does seem like Scorn actually are developing mentally

this was seen as far back as Season of the Lost

[frigid sparrow]

yeah, we got those small developments in lost with the fight pits and their own developing culture, then any development got kinda set aside because of witness stuff, but I'm working through the organ stuff so I don't know the extent of their developments

(albeit the fighting ring they were doing in that one area was still an extension of them being super aggressive and violent, but still)

but still, those are all developments that were being made, it wasn't something default to them, as such if fikrul were to revive them (especially doing it more and more), the friends he had still died

[ember storm]

All it takes is dark ether, actually

The Machinist mission in forsaken was about the mass production of engineered dark ether just being shipped out to infect Eliksni corpses

[slim girder]

Yes but wish magic is also a part of it. It's the thing that brought fikrul back in the first place

[ember storm]

But it was never required beyond his own creation/resurrection

The black fleet scorn are evidence of that

All that’s required is a source of darkness to taint ether and it can raise scorn

[slim girder]

I feel the witness is an exception. A being that powerful Most likely had some other kind of power to create scorn.

The scorn exist at all because of wish magic

[frigid sparrow]

isn't the echo noted to be something that interacts with the state of light/dark? and that's what allows for fikrul to corrupt ether so easily, even from within living eliksni? I feel like the undying status of fikrul is more closely tied to wish magic stuff whereas the scorn themselves are "inflicted" with dark ether just through mixing of ether and darkness bullshit

[slim girder]

The echoes are a clash of the memories of the witness through darkness and the matter making powers of light. Wish magic is what brought fikrul to life and so this rubbed off from him and is what allows him to resurrect scorn. It's also how riven is able to do this as she was taken and possessed wish magic.

[hollow zealot]

i have not been following this episode but why does mithrax get nezzy in his brain but osiris didnt even tho he literally drank him

[errant tapir]

What exactly is nezarec's curse?

[frigid sparrow]

mithrax performed a conversion with the relics, transferring those harmful effects to himself while distilling the necessary parts to awaken osiris into the tea

https://youtu.be/O9Mlvz5jAWI?t=422

[hollow zealot]

oh

[frigid sparrow]

from what we see, basically an "infection" that will eventually transfer some form of nezzy's consciousness into the afflicted target. caused by the relics of nezarec

in act 3 ||during the final cutscene, mithrax's shadow morphs into nezarec, which implies a more physical transformation could have occurred if mithrix went too long without any sort of care, and he could've lived on as a sort of shadow being before eventually overtaking mithrax's whole body||

[errant tapir]

I saw that

Remind me again

How did Osiris happen to be in a coma again?

[frigid sparrow]

so in a written story, set before beyond light, osiris was infiltrating some of the hive pantheon and got nearly killed before sagira decided to sacrifice herself, leaving him without a ghost. in this state, his body was taken over by savathun, and his body would continue to be puppeted by her until season of the splicer/lost. At the end of lost, osiris leaves during the vex attack on the eliksni quarters, and is finally set free at the beginning of lost. however, this left osiris in a coma during that time.

[trim grotto]

Savasiris

[frigid sparrow]

Osusris

[errant tapir]

Ohhh yeah

Osiris got possessed

Then he turned into sleeping beauty

Then we need to wake him up

[frigid sparrow]

Eido briefed me on Maya Sundaresh's Echo, and its ability to manipulate radiolaria. I believe Fikrul's echo does something similar to ether. Eliksni fables tell of alchemy that changed the polarity of ether between light and dark. When the ether inside living eliksni is affected, it turns them into scorn.

[slim girder]

The echoes would definitely be able to do this. This is how fikrul could now turn living eliksni into scorn. He basically switched the either inside them from light to dark.
As they are relics made from both light and dark. The reverse is also true though as ||Eramis was able to purify Mithrax of his curse||

||If eramis had decided to stay she could definitely reverse the scorn that had been made from living eliksni. But I feel eidos tonic research could also accomplish the same thing in time.||

[frigid sparrow]

||It would probably require training to do the same way Maya couldn't immediately compel the cabal||

||because, like, what are the implications of eramis being able to essentially double-revive eliksni in that case??? say she reverts one of the scorn barons, are they gonna get their memories back? are they gonna have the same personalities? are they gonna be like humanity's risen?||

[slim girder]

||I don't believe the echo is capable of reversing scorn that came from already dead eliksni. Like we're not going to be able to reverse skolas or any of the barons. But those eliksni we saw corrupted at the start of the act or as fikrul calls them "revenants"? Yes I believe the echo could reverse them.||

[sick yew]

So who will step up as the Scorned Baron's Babysitter

So Fikrul can rest easy

[uncut quest]

"hey, A letter! I have friends"
"Oh that's not a letter, that's a threat."
||These lore books are amazing lmao||

[trim grotto]

Oryx was such a people person

[slim girder]

Honestly this feels like he's speaking to the vex more than us ngl.

[trim grotto]

To Quria

[sick yew]

Youre not gonna believe this

[slim girder]

Oh

Look I haven't read the books of sorrow in a while ok. My mind had been pre occupied with theory crafting on the future of the scorn

[lofty badge]

are the Scorn in Savathun's Throneworld independent from the Revenant scorn?

[trim grotto]

Revenant Scorn didn't even exist until this Episode.

The Scorn on her Throne World were being controlled by the Witness.

[lofty badge]

yeah i know, i am more just wondering if he Scorn in Savathun's Thorneworld came under the command of Fikrul again after the Witness's death

or if those scorn are just stranded in the throneworld without a proper leader

[sick yew]

Unknown, theres always as many scorn as the plot demands

Could be some of the Throne World ones that joind up with Fikrul again, could be others

[trim grotto]

If they're like the Shore Scorn after Fikrul left, I expect they're aimlessly following the last order implanted in their shared mindspace.

Which is to say, they're probably leaderless and just being nuisances.

[lofty badge]

makes sense

[sick yew]

How did the Scorn get into the Throne World again initially? Did the Witness give them a gateway or some shit

[lofty badge]

i think so yeah or at least those scorn were under Rhulk's command

[trim grotto]

Something along those lines. I don't recall exactly - but I'm heading to sleep now so I'll worry about it later.

[sick yew]

Do so

[ember storm]

I’ve never seen a chat so dead on the week of a season end

It’s almost poetic

The revenant has finally been put to rest

[empty fern]

So, eido is really into the human language? Definitely expressed the emotion in final act with mithrax (could hear her tearing up)

[ember storm]

She eats books like a moth to gain the knowledge of their pages

[empty fern]

Then the apothecary, maybe lazy voice lines

[empty fern]

Wild

[ember storm]

You know what they say

[empty fern]

Don’t

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-plunder-witch-queen-fallen-eliksni-gif-26555398

[ember storm]

All’s well that ends well

The best bookend to any media

I see nothing wrong with the events that have occurred

[empty fern]

F that, I am left dissatisfied with mithrax in the end
||oh nezzy finally takes control only to be light beamed A SECOND TIME||

[final lantern]

Was the weapon referenced when Oryx killed Xivu and Savathun to feed the Worm Gods whatever created the taken?

I know shortly after he became the taken king and he brought them back from the ashes of the Ecumene race

[empty fern]

Which weapon?

[final lantern]

“A paracausal ontopathogenic weapon that infects and subverts Ecumene forces”

“The weapon operates on individual targets. Targets are abducted and returned as compliant Hive slaves with inexplicable and physically illegal abilities”

[blazing wasp]

You talking about oryx' sword here? Willbreaker?

[final lantern]

The lore entry just said he is deploying this

I’m not sure if that’s his sword or not, that’s why I was curious

What does Willbreaker do?

[slim girder]

Breaks wills.

[blazing wasp]

I don't know what it does, just the name

[slim girder]

@final lantern ^^^ exactly what you described. That's why it's called as it is

[final lantern]

Oh okay

Thanks

One last question, how are the taken formed?

Is it through willbreaker?

[slim girder]

Taken are formed by changing the properties of a being in a pocket dimension and then sending them back in this "perfected" form. It also erases their will so they are obedient to any being powerful enough to control them.

No it's not through willbreaker it's through oryxs own power of the deep

[final lantern]

Those two descriptions sound awfully similar

But good to know

Thank you

Wait what are wounds in terms of oryx and all that?

Like cuts on themselves or something else?

[slim girder]

Need more context as to what you mean

[final lantern]

For example, Crota cut a new wound with his sword to learn a new power

But then the vex came out of this wound

[trim grotto]

I ent dun it yet

[final lantern]

Is it like a portal?

[trim grotto]

Yes. Different plane.

[final lantern]

Oh that’s all they are?

Gotcha

[trim grotto]

In this case, cut out of the Ascendant Plane.

[ember storm]

He just opened a space that allowed entry into Oryx’s throne world

Vex just seized the opportunity immediately

[trim grotto]

Savvy Thoon tricked him into it

[final lantern]

I thought they were self inflicted wounds until the part about the vex

[final lantern]

Tricked Crota, correct?

[trim grotto]

Ye

[ember storm]

That’s sort of her thing

And she wasn’t lying, in a way

She said it would make him stronger

[final lantern]

This lore is so interesting, I really appreciate you guys helping me make sense of it

[ember storm]

Crota did in fact give his worm a lot of tribute by killing a lot of vex

He just couldn’t stop them from coming in and it started an actual war

[final lantern]

Does it say that Savathun tricked him somewhere?

[ember storm]

Oryx had to be told by the worm gods themselves to get off his ass and deal with it

[final lantern]

Like I see it says he conspired with his sisters

[trim grotto]

Yes
One moment

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxviii-the-partition-of-death#books-of-sorrow

This moment

[trim grotto]

Ah you

Mobile is hard 😔

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxix-open-your-eye-go-into-it#books-of-sorrow

[ember storm]

Look upon me and see you are simply a lesser shape

[trim grotto]

Wait no it's this one
Savathûn was laughing, because she had tricked Crota into cutting that place.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxix-open-your-eye-go-into-it?highlight="Savathun" "Crota"

Discord come on

[ember storm]

Anyway I love that in their infinite wisdom, the hive’s penultimate and most important literary work to their entire civilization

[trim grotto]

Friggin
Discord
Why so slow

[ember storm]

Details the invasion of Oryx’s throne world as

“Vex constructed large problems”

Like they just saw a bunch of confluxes and had no idea what they were looking at

[slim girder]

@trim grotto can you help me? Friend of mine ask if arcstrider evolved from bladedancer and I'm trying to find any lore relating to the topic.

I'm on the fence that they're 2 separate things

[trim grotto]

Not evolved, per se, just a different teaching.

Same as any of the subclass changes
We have lore from Haunted that Sunsingers still exist separate from Dawnblades for example

In fact, Guardian Games of all things has Bladedancer lore

[slim girder]

Ok great. So those subclasses are still different from what we have now. It's just a different interpretation of it

I guess another way of putting it would be like the old trees we had.

Different expressions

[trim grotto]

The trees make for a good comparison

[final lantern]

I had that up already lol

Thanks so much though

[ember storm]

I think it’s meant that the red war subclasses were supposed to be “old ways” that just fell out of style

[final lantern]

I must’ve just missed it

[ember storm]

We rediscovered them in the wake of losing our light and basically made them popular again

[final lantern]

@ember storm @trim grotto thanks for all your help

I love that reaction lol

[slim girder]

Old ways are still the best ways i guess. Fr though why did these fall out of style? I get sunbreakers I guess because tensions with the city but Nightstalkers and stormcaller seemed like very powerful assets to have

[ember storm]

You’ve got it the other way around

Sentinel shield, dawnblade, and arcblade were the ancient techniques that faded into obscurity

Just the three you get at the start of red war

The rest are the same as they were in D1 basically

Sunbreaker specifically just had an order that coined the idea but it was never really exclusive

There’s a difference between just being a sunbreaker and being a part of the Sunbreaker Order

[empty fern]

[slim girder]

Interesting. So then why go out of style. I always find that weird in media how these supposedly super powerful things become forgotten or fade away.
Sure I can maybe see with time the people who know these things eventually pass or maybe they become complicated to teach.

[empty fern]

Didn’t most of them die off?

[ember storm]

I mean times just change

It’s not that they just stopped existing they just stopped being mainstream

Like would you rather use vanilla dawnblade or have self rez, yknow

That and the guardian certainly does not represent others

We have the self agency and creativity of a brick

Nobody told us specifically about the old ways so we just literally never used them before the red war

[fresh zephyr]

im guessing this is the only time in the lore its confirmed that there are indeed warrior class vex frames

[ember storm]

It’s not, actually

What Quria did was essentially reverse engineer sword logic to use hive worms for a power boost

[fresh zephyr]

Crota’s gate began to emit warrior Vex, huge and brassy. He leapt forward to fight them, but they blinked away. After they fled from Crota, they killed two thousand of Oryx’s Acolytes and ten thousand of his Thrall. Soon they had established themselves as powers in this world, by right of slaughter.

[ember storm]

“Warrior vex, huge and brassy”

That’s just the characteristics of Minotaurs

[empty fern]

And a little bit sassy

[ember storm]

Hive literally didn’t know what vex were before that moment

[fresh zephyr]

oh wait this from the hive's perspective?

[trim grotto]

It's the Books of Sorrow.

[fresh zephyr]

so yeah

[ember storm]

It’s an entry from the books of sorrow

[fresh zephyr]

arent wyverns and hydras also like that

[ember storm]

Neither of which are “warriors” either

But that’s literally the main mechanic of fighting Minotaurs, they spam teleporting to close the distance and melee you

Other vex just teleport like every 10 seconds or so

[slim girder]

I guess I could see that. Idk I feel these sorts of things wouldn't be something that would just fall out of mainstream if that makes sense. Like surely you'd have older guardians using the OG ways and then new lights using the other stuff and then maybe depending on what they did they could eventually learn these older powers. Warlocks especially with the whole hunt for power mentality.

[fresh zephyr]

goes to show how much the vex don't really need to construct and use actual combat units on us

[ember storm]

Yeah, all Quria did was exploit the nature of throne worlds and worms, and established what was essentially an invincible beachhead

[slim girder]

The vex are inevitable. They don't need to fight because eventually they'll just corrupt everything.

Just them being there is enough

A drop of radiolaria could probably do the job

[fresh zephyr]

I see

[fresh zephyr]

infinite wyverns sounds scary

[fast bone]

Well my prediction was dead wrong

||thought for sure mithrax was gonna be the first new eliksni lightbearer but ig not. I also hoped we'd reach an understanding with fikrul.||

[dim minnow]

there was no way in hell we would ever reach an understanding with Fikrul

he HATES us

[trim grotto]

Not to rub salt in the wound, but I don't think you knew Fikrul that well

[dim minnow]

he is the only antagonist except maybe Oryx who had a personal vendetta on us

[fast bone]

I just think he's cool

[dim minnow]

yeah, I wish we would have gotten more of him

[trim grotto]

And Taniks
They're pretty on par with the outrageous hate

[fast bone]

Ok but imagine this

[trim grotto]

Man was so angry he rode a nuke

[fast bone]

Imagine if we ever finally got some human on human conflict

Like to the point where final deaths are dished out

But one day fikrul sweeps in and destroys our opponents

Then just leaves

[trim grotto]

Bungie has never, ever done that - that tracks all the way back to their games in the 90s.

[fast bone]

Yeah.....

[trim grotto]

We fought... what, one single corrupt cop in ODST?

[fast bone]

It doesn't make sense in halo I agree

But in Destiny it makes sense

All the humans are apparently perfect and not racist or greedy

[trim grotto]

Not just Halo. Marathon and Pathways too.

[trim grotto]

Uh well no

[dim minnow]

well there is potential for human v human stuff if they want to make a prequel game for Halo

[trim grotto]

That's definitively not true Void

[fast bone]

I wanna see the depths of humanity

Dark age shit

[trim grotto]

We even had a whole Season around the whole "racist" bit

[fast bone]

Real human nature

Not everyone is best friends

[trim grotto]

We have seen that

We just didn't fight them with our guns

Look at Season of the Splicer, or half the Dark Age stories

[fast bone]

Exactly

Stories

How about having it as content

[trim grotto]

I feel like we shouldn't discount the first half of what I just said

Because that was content

3 months of Racist Season

[fast bone]

No no

Splicer was xenophobic season

[trim grotto]

Okay??

[fast bone]

I mean humans who hate each other's guts

Can't see eye to eye on a regular basis

Clans

Not the factions shit we had in y1

Like bandit clans

[trim grotto]

We also saw that in Splicer
The Factions tried to stage a coup

[fast bone]

Warlords. Rogues.

[slim elk]

We had the best chance with Maya.. didnt pan out

[fast bone]

They got sunset

[dim minnow]

I feel like we've had this exact conversation before

[trim grotto]

Sunsetting is the capping of Power. Vaulting is the removal of content.

[slim elk]

Like, we had a clear cut human antagonist finally in Echoes.. and that didnt lead anywhere

[trim grotto]

Anyway I don't think you'll see much of what you seem to want
Bungie have rarely ever leaned hard in that direction

[fast bone]

I know

It's just a wish

[slim elk]

Its a shame really, we could of had a potential avenue opened in how far the Vanguard was willing to go in permanently removing threats

[fast bone]

That's another thing

How about a clan of people fed up with the vanguard shit

Maybe even to the point where they'd stage attacks or events to sway people to their side

All types of different faction ideas are probably out there too

[dim minnow]

that was already done with Splicer

[fast bone]

Ffs

[slim elk]

Its like how Bungie is openly admitting the staff that ||Eramis has now could actually convert Scorn back to Eliskni.. and Eramis fucked off with it instead of helping all of of Fikruls victims||

[fast bone]

Not really tho

[dim minnow]

||let's be real, the whole "not risking another spread of corruption" thing was just an excuse to keep the Revenants and other Scorn around||

[trim grotto]

Or the pacifist colony who simply left the City.

Or the Concordat.

[slim elk]

||Yeah, just reads of complete bullshit in context lol. Just see the purging of Nezarec from Mithrax||

[fast bone]

Yea now u get it

[trim grotto]

...who sent us a peace offering in the Guardian Games.

[slim elk]

Look, if Bungie was going to do anything with an actual hostile group of humans.. it would have been Neomuna back in Lightfall

Instead we got massively contradictory lore and implications

[dim minnow]

Neomuni are bitchmade, what are they gonna do

[fast bone]

And a ghost town

[slim elk]

Yeah.. why did they feel the need to tie Lakshima to the place anyway?

Heck, she was apparantly around to see the Fallen torch London, and had a moment in Splicer lore where she was confronting the mastermind behind it.. who was now a refugee of House Light

.. but really she started in Neomuna and was dumped off on Earth when they went on a black ops mission to delete any evidence of their existence?

[dim minnow]

I suppose Lakshmi not saying anything about it can be explained

the Veil Contaiment Logs imply that when Maya copied her mind and put it in Lakshmi, she was pretty much a child mentally

so it is possible that she didn't have the ability to recognize her surroundings at that point

[fast bone]

[slim elk]

...which makes what Esi did all the more vile lol

[dim minnow]

Divorce leads children to the worst places

you know I can make a Destiny lore meme about that

[slim elk]

Honestly, Neomuna would make a hell of a lot more sense if Maya "won" in the background lore

Instead we have Esi trying to delete everything about the Veil... and modern day Neomuna has literally everything hooked into it

Contradictory much?

[slim girder]

I turned out fine.

[dim minnow]

no you didn't you ended up here

[slim girder]

We all make mistakes in our lives.

[errant tapir]

Hmmmm

[trim grotto]

[errant tapir]

What do I wanna ask on lore

Is the process of being scorn the same as being taken?

[trim grotto]

No, it isn't.

With the Scorn, a corpse is flooded with Dark Ether, resurrecting it and connecting it to the Scorn's mindspace. Or, in the current case, by the Echo directly transforming a living Eliksni.

For the Taken, someone is... well, Taken. Stolen, shoved into a portal, and reformed as a spectre of the Ascendant Plane.

[errant tapir]

A corpse?

[trim grotto]

Yes. Scorn are zombies.

[errant tapir]

They have to die first?

[trim grotto]

Well, not since Fikrul got the Echo, but prior to this Episode, yes.

Scorn were Zombie Eliksni.

[errant tapir]

Yeah I was about to give u that argument

Since cutscene shows fikrul instantly transforming eliksni into scorn when they are still alive

[trim grotto]

I did say that in the first message

[errant tapir]

oh I forgot

[slim elk]

Yeah.
All the Revenant Scorn basically be Eliskni turned while they are alive

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah, "na-veskirisk"

[lofty badge]

Vampire scorn

[lofty badge]

Yeah Fallen vampires without the blood sucking

[hazy veldt]

i still dont understand what exactly happened to sagira for her to become basically fine furniture

[dim minnow]

are you asking how she died?

[hazy veldt]

exactly

[dim minnow]

she blew herself up

[hazy veldt]

🥶

[trim grotto]

Well, the short version is that Osiris was hunting the remaining bloodline of Oryx, but Xivu Arath and her High Celebrant ambushed him in the shadow of the Luna Pyramid. Sagira sacrificed herself to save Osiris.

[dim minnow]

to purge the Hellmouth of Xivu's presence so she could save Osiris

[hazy veldt]

appreciate it

but she can theoretically be pumped up with light and reanimated, a kin to what cayde did to our ghost

its just considering osiris's reputation no ones gonna do it

[dim minnow]

no

[trim grotto]

Yeah, no.

[hazy veldt]

rad

[dim minnow]

she's fucked

[hazy veldt]

like, beyond recovery

[trim grotto]

I mean firstly that essentially killed Cayde

[dim minnow]

done turned into a hand grenade

[dim minnow]

yeah

her remains are now kept in the Neomuna Hall of Heroes

[hazy veldt]

so literally she makes a fine accessory now

dope legacy for ex strongest guardian

[trim grotto]

I mean it's not like he's been sitting around doing nothing

[dim minnow]

not strongest, but very strong

there's not really a defined strongest guardian

Osiris is of course one of the most legendary Warlocks

[hazy veldt]

yeah he got strand now but lets be real he is more of walking artifact than actual war asset

[trim grotto]

Not what I meant

[hazy veldt]

mc?!

[trim grotto]

Also, don't really agree. Osiris was the foremost expert on the Vex.

And he was an early researcher of Darkness

And he has experienced being Vanguard himself

[dim minnow]

I'm willing to bet that he taught Ikora Strand

[trim grotto]

Probably yeah

[dim minnow]

we are goated, but powerscaling doesn't really work in Destiny

at least not with paracausality

[hazy veldt]

not abt power scaling but more of feats

i mean sure we do everything in fireteams

so far if memory serves me right ikoras most amazing feats is the crucible streak and double nova bomb

[dim minnow]

lore wise I'm pretty sure cooldowns aren't that prevalent

[trim grotto]

Also it was triple

But besides that, she was part of the Great Ahamkara Hunt

[hazy veldt]

i would pull up gif of infinite golden gun on raneiks with some funny text if i had it

[hazy veldt]

ahamkara power still confuses me to this day, i mean i understand what they do, but some ahamkaras got folded by a fodder warriors and other ones are riven

ik she had been taken and it contributed to her power somehow

but still

[trim grotto]

Some of them allow it to happen. Some are driven on by their own Wishes. Some have fed more and are stronger, some are weaker. Also, Riven was Taken.

[hazy veldt]

wait, in first mission of wq it was stated that hive tried to interogate sagira

did they try to get info out of corpse

i mean considering its hive im not even amazed

[dim minnow]

interrogate?

I don't recall this

[trim grotto]

Neither do I, and I'm reading the transcript right now.

[hazy veldt]

mb not the first mission, the one where we recover sagira

[trim grotto]

 
Fynch: Well, that's... about the gist of it, yeah. 
 
Ghost: And this definitely isn't some kind of trap?
 
Fynch: Ah, come — look, interrogate me all you want, but I am not hiding anything — I promise.
 
Ikora: Honesty goes a long way with my Guardians. 
 
Fynch: Is that—
 
Ghost: Ikora Rey. A leader of the Vanguard. I signaled her, just in case.
 
Ikora: Let's call it insurance... a watchful eye. In case your actions differ from your words. 
 
Fynch: Ikora Rey, wow! It's, uh, yeah, whoa. I always wanted to work for the Vanguard. 
 
Ikora: With, not for. Do right by us, and we can discuss a more permanent role once Savathûn is dealt with."```
This is the only dialogue with interrogate and sagira put together

[lost abyss]

That's what we were trying to do with her shell during one of the campaign missions using Deepsight, rather than the other way around.

[hazy veldt]

probably, i jus got mixed up

thanks anyways

[sick yew]

Our powescaling directly correlates to the music that's playing in the current moment and what part it's at in the track

Change my mind

And by extension so does our enemies

[hybrid sorrel]

Why did the traveler give guardians super natural demi-god powers, but didn't give them the ability to not need food, water, or sleep?

[trim grotto]

We can go without those, but we usually don't want to. Keeps us human. People kept having to convince Zavala to actually sleep.

[sick yew]

Keeps us human is the important one imo

[hybrid sorrel]

Didn't the drifter and his squad die that one time of starvation?

[sick yew]

If the traveler had wanted mindless soldiers I'd have gone for the Vex or some shit

[trim grotto]

Drifter died of starvation a lot. But he also refused aid from his Ghost.

And yeah Alex is right
We're not meant to just be mindless soldiers

[sick yew]

Didn't he get resurrected still hungry tho? Or could his ghost have prevented that had he asked

[hybrid sorrel]

So ghosts have an ability to make you not hungry?

[trim grotto]

"What the hell is wrong with me?" he demanded of the ground.

"You're dying from starvation," Ghost said flatly.

"I don't believe you," he sneered, as he dragged himself over some rocks.

"I could fix you," Ghost said.

"Don't need you," he said. "I got this."```
```He had passed out. The sun beat down directly overhead, a searing marble in the sky. He died a day later after a scorpion stung his prone body. Ghost allowed it. A complete restart would be less complicated.

**

He opened his eyes and took an even breath. "What should I call you?" Ghost asked.

He looked at it, as if considering. Then down at his hands.

"I'm still hungry."```

Felwinter stared at the ground, then finally looked up at the drone. "How will I sleep?"

"You don't need to."

"But I want to."

"That's fine."```
This is also vaguely relevant

[hybrid sorrel]

Also usually? are some guardians just okay without it while others aren't?

[trim grotto]

Sleep is healthy. Mentally, not just physically.

Even Guardians aren't immune to stress.

[hybrid sorrel]

Didn't really answer my question..

[trim grotto]

It isn't really gone into a lot. We know Guardians sleep. We know they don't have to sleep.

We also know is sleep is healthy, so, they usually don't want to go without it.

[slim girder]

Think about it this way. Imagine you didn't need food or water but you're still susceptible to the effects going without that would have.
So you'd still want to eat and drink and sleep to stay healthy and live in an optimal way. Even as a guardian you are still a living being

Even exo guardians

Cayde loved spicy ramen even though as a guardian and even more as an exo he shouldn't need it.

But he still ate because that is the human thing to do.

Same with drinking. In the final shape teaser we saw ikora with a cup of liquid and in the actual expansion we saw our guardian and all the vanguard talking over some drinks

Another example is season of plunder with drifter mixing some drinks up.

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-plunder-witch-queen-guardian-hunter-gif-26555363

[lofty badge]

Do non lightbearer lucent hive still have their worms?

[jagged badge]

Yes. The best part is, their worms are fed and satiated by the latent Light of the Lightbearers

Like a backwards flowing tribute system iirc

[lofty badge]

oh lol nice, but does that feed the Worm gods and Savathun?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn doesn’t have a worm

She cannot receive and doesn’t require tribute

[slim elk]

Her worm is now a gun probably buried in a vault somewhere

[lofty badge]

true true

[lofty badge]

so does the tribute go to no one but the lucent hive that has them?

[slim elk]

Up in the air until someone actually claims it

See Eris getting powered up from slitting Savathuns throat

..
When we offed Savathun personally a while before that

[jagged badge]

We don’t practice the Sword Logic

Savathûn’s latent power from the Sword Logic was still there even past her previous deaths because it hadn’t been claimed by another practitioner of it

[slim elk]

Well.. not until Season of the Witch anyway

Then we were delving into it full blast to power up Eris

[jagged badge]

Sorta

I dunno if I’d class it exactly the same way. Especially considering that it applied to all Guardians

We didn’t gain power ourselves from it ofc

[slim elk]

Yeah. We level grinded for someone else lol

But it was basically the whole tribute system the Hive set up

All the "exp" from our massacres went to Eris

[lofty badge]

anyone else find the fallen and cabal to be the most fun factions to fight and kill?

[lyric karma]

vex are more interesting faction considering how we pop their tanks just with guns after they spent millions of years to evolve

[sick yew]

Not one race in destiny has out-evoved a bullet so far

[slim girder]

"Some may think they can outsmart me, maybe. But I have yet to meet one who can outsmart bullet"

[blazing wasp]

Immune shields

[ember storm]

Vex in their infinite wisdom deciding to test impenetrable shield generators in the field of Nessus and never trying it again after the generators get destroyed

[lyric karma]

just put impenetrable shield on impenetrable shield generator

[slim girder]

Wonder if the vex ever considered more physical forms of shielding. Like what the wyverns have but like a full on shield that covers everything and that could form a barricade of sorts. Not for combat but just for blocking up routes

Like those ants IRL whose head acts as the door

[empty fern]

They’d just end up like those fallen doors in beyond light, bombs

[fresh zephyr]

Closest we've gotten is the high durability of the wyvern

There are also those circle doors

[slim girder]

No not those weird energy walls I'm talking like a physical door that can't just be shut off or something. I mean like a big vex whose sole purpose is just to hold a big chunk of vex metal in front of itself.

Like a builder vex frame of sorts

[fresh zephyr]

Minotaur

[slim girder]

It could be a minotaur sure.

Replace the gun with a big shield

[fresh zephyr]

Tbh wyverns already to the job of soaking up damage pretty well

They are the only case of a highly resistant vex frame

[empty fern]

Woe
Gameplay be upon ye

[fresh zephyr]

Which begs the question of what they're made of

[empty fern]

Radiolloy

And a little bit of magic

[fresh zephyr]

The vex don't do magic

[slim girder]

Same stuff all vex are made of. Just different mixtures of metals depending on what they're for

Not to sound rude @fresh zephyr but if you played the game you could probably learn a ton more about the vex just from playing missions that involve them. Lore entries are good and we can give you information no worries but actually playing it you can work out a lot more I feel

I can tell you're very interested in that part of destiny

[fresh zephyr]

I am

I have played destiny before for a good bit

I just stopped playing

I just like the design and lore of the vex

unique and interesting

[sick yew]

Overall design wise Vex are probably the coolest agreed

[fresh zephyr]

I'm glad Bungie decided to improve on the base design for the enemies

make them look cooler and unique

the vex are the epitome of that

[hollow hinge]

Shame they're the worst when it comes to stories and missions

[sick yew]

Missions no because you get to look at amazing environments

[hollow hinge]

Vex architecture is so boring wdym

[sick yew]

???

Garden is my favorite environment in the whole game smh

[hollow hinge]

That's more the Garden than the vex imo lol

[sick yew]

Its the combination of the both

[hollow hinge]

Lore wise the Vex are amazing but I just don't think they translate well into the game

[empty fern]

Very vexy

[sick yew]

Indeed

[feral token]

After all the "character development" eramis is still blaming the traveler and the guardians

[slim elk]

Some people never learn, and now shes got the Echo

What do you think will happen?

[feral token]

Personally i think bungie wont bring back the eliksni storyline
I think they think this is a legitimately happy ending and there'll never be clashes between humanity and eliksni again

[slim elk]

I detect sarcasm lol

[feral token]

It's not how it would happen in a good story that's well written, but the writers literally control everything that happens so we probably wont see them again

In the best timeline of destiny 2 development we would see a final clash with a horrifically mutated eremis and treat the echo like the crown of sorrow

And a new eliksni based enemy type to match

Maybe using angelic imagery like inarius from diablo

They'd be "blessed" by the light similarly to the hive

[slim elk]

Would make a lot more sense lol

They forgot the part of the Kell of Kells prophecy involving the Traveler

[dim minnow]

I mean, she at least knows that pursuing vengeance will get her nowhere

[feral token]

Would be really cool, and an easy lay-up for new content

[dim minnow]

so maybe she won't pull a Beyond Light again

[feral token]

Maybe lol

But she's still talking like beyond light

[slim elk]

Even applies in verse where you they can hint at the Traveler getting scared of Humanity leaning into darkness

[slim girder]

Idk if she can even use stasis anymore

[feral token]

True true

[feral token]

She has stasis crystals around her head, but that could just be because they're spamming old assets lol

[slim elk]

Zavalas finally broken all faith with the thing. And hes the man in charge of the City more or less

[feral token]

I think zavala still has faith, he was IN the traveler how could he not
He's just following our lead with accepting darkness

[slim elk]

You forgot all those memories the Traveler showed him

[slim girder]

Zavala has faith in it but now will do more to take action himself

[slim elk]

His faiths broken, its why hes taken up Stasis use after being a diehard against its use

[slim girder]

He took up stasis because he has no light

He couldn't fight

[feral token]

That's also possible
We could see a zavala fight in the future

[slim elk]

Plus, Zavalas loss of faith has been a big plot for him for a while

Remember his reaction to learning how the Hive got the light?

[feral token]

Yeah, altho i think him leading the charge against the witness could be interpreted as that storyline coming to an end and zavala re-accepting the traveler

Thats kinda the conversation around the campfire after targe dies

[slim elk]

Nah, the same plot has us hide an inconvenient truth from both Ikora and Zavala for the sake of the mission

[feral token]

True

[slim elk]

(Cayde wasnt around because of the Traveler, it was because of a wish)

[feral token]

It could also be read as zavala forsaking the traveler for faith in humanity

[slim elk]

Bingo

[feral token]

Which is pretty much just darkness lol

[slim elk]

Faith in humanity and its allies lol

Not blind faith in a silent god

[feral token]

And humanity innately has the capability of darkness (?)

Can any random just use the darkness? Eramis did

[slim elk]

Everything does.. because Darkness=Consciousness

[feral token]

Yeah thats what i thought

Thats a cool analogy

Zavala gains consciousness against the traveler

I wonder if ikora will turn too

Wait is the light and dark just god and the apple of knowledge?

[slim elk]

The Light did wipe away all memory of past lives..

[slim girder]

No

[slim elk]

I do wonder if Ikora and Zavala will be told the truth about Cayde offscreen

[dim minnow]

I think they were already told

[slim elk]

Never brought up in any lore I seen, and the Final Shape makes a point to keep them ignorant

[fresh zephyr]

I think theres gonna be some new tales and stories and loe bits of guardians or humans teaming up with nessian schism vex

or at least some stories telling about a single goblin's or any other frames' story

[dim minnow]

Vex are still Vex

[fresh zephyr]

I thought they think independently now

[dim minnow]

yes, but that does not change the fact they are Vex

[slim elk]

Nah, they are under the direction of Maya

The collars arent just for show

It is a massively missed opportunity admittedly. Using that Echo to have a permanent solution to deal with the Vex

[fresh zephyr]

So they still want to make everything in their image?

[fresh zephyr]

What happens when we defeat Maya

[slim elk]

Who knows

[dim minnow]

pretty much

[slim girder]

Yes. Only difference with nessus vex is that they can give themselves a name and communicate more with other vex.

[trim grotto]

Howdy folks
Did I miss anything fun today

[fresh zephyr]

I see

[slim girder]

Found fikruls little shrine

I always love how for any framed photo in the game they use cutscene shots lol

[ember storm]

It’s just Maya’s image now

[gentle pendant]

How did he get that photo……

[fast tapir]

camera

[empty fern]

Bought it from spider probably

[feral token]

How come the witness never figures out that all we want is new gear and new playgrounds to use it?

He always shows us fame and fortune, respect of the vanguard and other random nothing statements

[lost abyss]

It mentions "Glittering rewards" which can be interpreted as gear and weaponry.

[feral token]

Like he could have shown us "whole worlds of perpetual war, challenge, and achievement" but he doesn't

[feral token]

Or glimmer lol

I took it as him offering us the reused xurs hoard assets

[dim minnow]

the Witness did give us Ruinous Effigy

[feral token]

Oh yeah the witness also tried to bribe us with ruinous effigy lmao

[lost abyss]

https://youtu.be/lbavIsB94Qg?si=m3EKFteMypKsUqpj

10:23

It actually does address this

This ambition is known to us. "That what can be destroyed, must be destroyed." 

Ascend to your potential. Find your purpose.```

[uneven mulch]

what exactly is the star horse?

what is its origins

[jagged badge]

[blazing wasp]

Star horse is kinda this thing that is probably canon but literally does not matter

It has zero narrative or lore relevance nor importance

[lofty badge]

wait..don't we have a undead Revenant scorn Skolas running around..

[slim girder]

Yes. this "kells vengeance" version of the contest of elder is most likely where he'll make an appearance

[lofty badge]

Ohh?

[slim girder]

Just seems like the perfect place for it. We even have his old arena from D1 in the prison of elders as part of the warden of nothing strike. I can see us going back there to face him again.

Just like in D1

[plain sparrow]

Can anyone tell me how long ago twilight gap took place compared to when we are now in the game

[slim girder]

Twilight gap was I believe a few centuries ago now.

[plain sparrow]

So like 200-300 years?

[trim grotto]

"Decades".

Some time within the last century.

[slim girder]

Welp guess I seriously overestimated how much time has passed lol

[plain sparrow]

Oh so more like 50-60 years

Gotcha. Ty

[trim grotto]

That's perhaps a dash too specific, but within the century, yes.

[lavish tendon]

Haven't been here since for a while, so gonna ask the important questions

Did we turn any of our enemies into a gun

[trim grotto]

We haven't actually done that as often as the memes suggest

[lavish tendon]

Booooooo

What about recently tho?

[trim grotto]

None that quite come to mind. There are plenty related to enemies, but not made from enemies.

[lavish tendon]

Aww

Did we at least take their guns

Like an exotic that I believe is just a Vex's gun arm

[trim grotto]

Yes, but I... am not sure what you mean by that one specifically. Vex Mythoclast was crafted for human hands, Vexcalibur was related to Asher Mir. Choir of One was presumably made by The Conductor, so... I don't know what gun you refer to.

[lavish tendon]

Ohhhhhh

I thought the Mythoclast was just a Vex arm someone yoinked and restructured to fit our grubby little hands

[jagged badge]

Nah. Part of Mythoclast’s lore is that its origin is mysterious and inexplicable

We found a Vex gun already made for humans

[lavish tendon]

It was?

Ohhhhh

So that's what the lore implied

How did they bring back Cayde

And did they triple murder him at the end

[slim girder]

Crow unknowingly made a wish before the events of the final shape. So when he arrived cayde was there waiting for him.

And no at the end he gave his light to bring back our ghost.

[lavish tendon]

So Cayde's alive and just chilling in the tower

Retired from being a Guardian?

Or did he just triple die

[low gyro]

He sacrificed himself to bring back our ghost

[slim girder]

No he was never truly alive in the traditional sense. In the pale heart he had no ghost and couldn't use the light.
At the end of our fight with the witness our ghost channeled the travelers light through them to destroy it for good. This resulted in our ghost seemingly dying and cayde then chose to give his own light to bring them back. Cayde wanted to have a choice and so made that decision

[low gyro]

Ghost was all tuckered out from super Light beam on witness

[lavish tendon]

Right

[empty fern]

Surprise (there’s no lore activity here go back to your other channels)

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-in-the-rain-vegeta-rain-cloudy-dbz-gif-13994573155178415068

[lavish tendon]

There is if you're like me, and you're to lazy to google the lore and read

And then go to the lore channel to ask about random bits of lore that interested me

[frozen pawn]

he's ded ded

(gave his life to revive our ghost)

also he said that he refer to remain death himself so it's not a bad thing.

[lavish tendon]

Got it

[trim grotto]

[pallid thunder]

That means ghost is basically confirmed to be infinity guantlet level in terms of artifact,

He could channel energy that could kill the witness which is a pretty saucy feat itself.

My swole ghost with the Ryu skin is a certified god killer ❤️

[slim girder]

Ghosts are conduits of the traveler. They are born from it afterall and something similar happened when we got out light back in the red war

[pallid thunder]

I wish there was a marvel Destiny cross over,
Dr dooms fit on my warlock would be peak gaming

Spiderman Hunter fit

Hulk/Bruce banner for titan

Just take my silver at that point

[slim girder]

There's a shader called smashing success which is hulk colours. Think that's the closest you'll get.

[ivory sluice]

I think I missed a cutscene. How did eramis go from getting the echo and cleansing mithrax to him being kell of kells and her leaving?

What were her conditions to becoming kell?

[jagged badge]

Eramis didn’t want to be Kell of Kells. She wanted what the Echo wanted. To return and rebuild Riis

Kell of Kells was given to Mithrax because he represents the future of Eliksni in Sol

[ivory sluice]

Thought the cutscene said that the echo wanted her to be kell of kells

[jagged badge]

Maybe Eramis succeeds and Eliksni can return, but for now, Mithrax is the main reason Eliksni can be safe

[ivory sluice]

but she had conditions

[jagged badge]

No

Just its bearer

[ivory sluice]

so eramis is now going to rebuild riis

[jagged badge]

She wants to find her family and try to do that with the Echo’s power yeah

[empty fern]

Episode 11, erimis remakes her family

[frigid sparrow]

was it referred to as the Echo of Riis in the game or did bungie use twitter to give official lore again

[slim girder]

Twitter.
Just like how saint called mayas echo the echo of command

Just random title giving

[frigid sparrow]

ah so they did the Nessian Schism thing again

[slim girder]

It does make sense to name the echoes though so I don't blame them for just dropping titles like that

[frigid sparrow]

Yeah I like titles it's just a matter of expressing it in-game vs "STOP FIKRUL FROM USING HIS NEWFOUND POWERS GRANTED BY THE ECHO OF RIIS" posting on social media

(also naming it the Echo of Reflections feels more noteworthy than Echo of Riis but we'll have to see what echo Xivu ends up getting and the name behind that)

[rapid girder]

what are engrams

exactly

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/ghost-scan-core-terminus-mars-2

Allow Stephen Fry to regale you

[rapid girder]

so engrams are what

i’m confused

he started talking about silicon and science fiction it made no sense

[ember storm]

It’s like a zip file for physical things

[empty fern]

Golden age compression

[ashen bolt]

any significance?

[sick yew]

Thats just the Bray logo is it not?

[trim grotto]

Well, it is called the Cadmus Ridge Lancecap. Cadmus Ridge is one of the locations on Europa as part of the Braytech facilities.

For some reason the Ishtar entry is still classified

[ashen bolt]

ye

was just wondering if there was anything deeper to it

[trim grotto]

Not really. Just belonged to the Europa facilities. That symbol represents Clovis Bray. CB.

[ashen bolt]

fair enough

thanks yall

[pallid thunder]

So Vex are Organic in the sense radioaria contains the actual "guidance/mind" does that mean they are susceptible to disease?

Can the Vex suffer illness?

[dim minnow]

as far as we know, probably not

Vex memes in of themselves are infectious

they can even overcome Taken Blight so long as there isn't a strong Taken leader moving things aroung

[pallid thunder]

That is an absolutely ridiculous feat of genetic resistance

Overcoming the blight through shere technology/physiology is absolutely bonker

[sick yew]

From what we can tell they are essentially peak evolution so yes

[dim minnow]

they were made up of the winners of every previous Flower Game

[sick yew]

Thats what I mean yeah

[pallid thunder]

Scaling wise very few synthetic races in fiction even come close to the Vex.

It boggles the mind how much plot armor we have to not get wiped by the vex at any moment

[sick yew]

Funnily enough Radiolaria is one of the more dangerous things to a Guardian

Look at good ol Asher Mir

[dim minnow]

keep in mind that as Paracausal beings, we are their best counter

[pallid thunder]

Yeah, it's lit the single thing we can lean on from what I'm reading

Atheon tried getting us through that too.

[dim minnow]

that and the Vex don't really focus on fighting

they don't even see it as fighting

they embody a mindset more akin to a builder/gardener

well, a builder/gardener with a gun

[sick yew]

A gardeners most underrated tool is the gun

[dim minnow]

while they aren't described as "combat units"

they are designed with the need to defend their constructs in mind

at least that's what some D1 grimoire cards imply

[pallid thunder]

Are you telling me the vex could.... In theory within lore craft combat units that would be significantly stronger than what we have faced/beaten?

That's some grimdark type shit

[dim minnow]

Calus implies that there are actual combat units out there, but he doesn;t have the best track record with information

Wyverns are the closest to being considered a combat unit