#📚lore-discussion
slim girder
None of that is true
errant tapir
slim girder
"leveling Chicago" "getting rid of emotions"?
trim grotto
Lie
Hyperbole
False
Lie
Wild misinterpretation
what the fuck is this video Varo
trim grotto
This video is incredible bullshit
slim girder
You should only listen to reputable sources that actually show where they get the info from
That is pure clickbait
trim grotto
Literally none of this was true except for the "nova bombs shook mars" thing... because that was an in-universe made up fanfic that the Psions wrote for Calus that was already false
This is bullshit of the highest order
errant tapir
How do I know reputable sources?
trim grotto
People actually citing the sources, for one
Ask me anything and I can give you the sources if you want them
slim girder
How do I know reputable sources?
Video quality first off. A guy with a face cam with nothing but cutscenes isn't reputable.
Secondly they would be telling you where these sources of information come from. Any reputable person would be able to point you to where they get their information
trim grotto
It saddens me that this video exists and people will believe it
At least you had the sense to ask about it Varo
slim girder
I've never seen a yt shorts that mentions the sources
Because it's a short. Watch an actual video. Don't get me wrong shorts are cool but a lot of people use them to bullshit for quick views
Before smacking you with a big "Please subscribe"
slim girder
https://youtube.com/shorts/SN1bvjYl-QU?si=cuVCwezecFlWCgkg
I know this guy. Yes he's a lot more accurate. But again you'd be better off watching actual videos that talk at length about lore
trim grotto
All sounds about right, but it is missing details that may be considered important.
But, this is a Short, so. Fair enough.
errant tapir
Noice
slim girder
Details can be very important in some parts of lore. Like he said the krill made a pact with the worm gods that turned them into the hive but skipped the whole blood tithe bit which is integral to who the hive are as a species
uneven mulch
is our ghosts name ghost?
trim grotto
Yes/we never named him specifically
uneven mulch
oh
trim grotto
This is a "have some headcanon" moment
slim girder
I feel it would be easy to just have all characters call our ghost "your ghost" and we'd be able to name them. But i know that require a lot of tweaks to the current dialogue
dim minnow
I kind of prefer that our Ghost is his own character
trim grotto
Ghosts change shells all the time
Hell, some of them are foundry branded
They didn't pop out of the Traveler wearing the Veist logo
uneven mulch
so people can just make the shells?
trim grotto
Yeah
trim grotto
Pretty much
trim grotto
yeppers
trim grotto
i think you have the wrong channel, friend
this is for discussing the lore and story and universe of Destiny
slim girder
then put it in?
I like to think it's all about magnets. The shell is held together by these magnets inside their core which allows them to expand and do the things you see ghosts do. But if they turn off the magnets then the shell drops off and they can pick a new one. Like a hermit crab basically.
Ghosts can also transfer to a whole new core even. Sagira in the curse of Osiris DLC did that to our ghost and took over their shell for the expansion before returning back to her original one.
ember storm
Is that the BIOLIZARD
sweet locust
Where can I find lore on guardians and characters using stasis?
Like not an explanation on what stasis is just lore pages that involves them using stasis to fight
slim girder
Where can I find lore on guardians and characters using stasis?
The riiswalker shotgun has a lore tab featuring a guardian using stasis to save an eliksni being terrorised by humans
Not fighting but more a "Move out before I make you" kind of thing
It's a hunter named Aisha
sweet locust
Where can I find lore on guardians and characters using stasis?
Something like this but with strand?
Outside of the warp and weft lore book maybe?
slim girder
Outside of the warp and weft lore book maybe?
Unfortunately there isn't really anything. Seems in the lore darkness in general is still rare amongst guardians. Most likely due to the nature of wielding it and I wouldn't be surprised if some just don't want to deal with the hassle when their own light suffices.
errant tapir
Lore on uldren sov gang
ember storm
I heard a rumor Uldren sov is actually alive
fresh zephyr
Do you think Bungie will showcase the newfound intelligence of the nessian schism with new animations and AI?
ember storm
Elaborate?
Will they change the animations or behavior of the Maya vex (probably not)
ember storm
Goblins already do their little fortnite emote when they kill you
Gameplay isn’t always accurate to lore
fresh zephyr
As in, you think Bungie would use AI for animation?
no
as in new animations
and smarter AI
blazing wasp
Goblins already do their little fortnite emote when they kill you
Maya now makes them perform orange justice when they killed you
fresh zephyr
what?
ember storm
Enemy ai is already cranked up in higher difficulty activities
They won’t change it between enemy factions
There’s zero difference between how hidden swarm and lucent hive act, lucent hive just get the additions of moths
fresh zephyr
when I say new AI for the vex, I mean things like seeking cover
similar to dregs and acolytes
I know it would probably be the last thing on Bungie's things to do
but it would be interesting nontheless
fresh zephyr
Goblins already do their little fortnite emote when they kill you
I think most enemies do that
ember storm
Yeah but the point is vex aren’t supposed to experience emotions at all, there’s zero reason for them to display any kind of celebration but they still do
fresh zephyr
and now we have a vex collective that does display emotion
at least in the lore
I think it'd just be a cool addition and attention to details on the new lore
lost abyss
and now we have a vex collective that does display emotion
It's possible, but unlikely like Waltz is saying. They might receive unique enemy behavior, if they become an in-game faction, proper. The Compelled Vex display different behavior, seen as they actively retreat during an Echoes mission.
But as of now, we don't even know if Maya's Vex will get a unique unit. Let alone a behavioral change. It'd be interesting though. I don't think I've ever seen Goblins and such utilize cover in-game. Of the top of my head, Minotaurs are the only ones that even disengage from combat (They'll occasionally do consecutive teleportations, away from you.)
fresh zephyr
But as of now, we don't even know if Maya's Vex will get a unique unit. Let alon...
imagine how the wyverns would be
ember storm
imagine how the wyverns would be
“Bro why didn’t we get arms”
lost abyss
imagine how the wyverns would be
If they were compelled to spam the aerial dive, I'd drop dead at the sight 💀
ember storm
Wyverns discover skating
lost abyss
Oh god no
Physics related deaths become a concern once more
Self-propelled Wyvern frame collision
fair trout
So what do we think the next expansion’s story will be?
Here’s a tin foil hat theory
I think we are entering inside the veil
With the universe’s biggest threat gone, we are free to explore and do things
Maybe it’s time to see if the veil can be entered like the traveler?
I propose the idea that we will be entering inside the veil. Not only are there floating Neomuna like devices we see in the concept art teasers, but the world itself looks very alien yet there are man made objects like the ship
The colors are trippy like the veil
Darkness involves memory so… what if we are entering the veil?
To add on to this theory further
There were individuals who suffered brain death after experiences with the veil… what if their consciousness resides inside the veil?
Finally... the veil could be where Maya fled to. Bungie likes to use seasons to set up the next expansion, like they did with Calus in season of the haunted
lost abyss
Considering Frontiers is seemingly leading into exo-solar exploration after Episode: Heresy, what we are seeing in these concepts, could be the Reef.
fresh zephyr
“Bro why didn’t we get arms”
Funny thing is despite them not having arms they can still actually punch you with their wings
its a rare animation that only happens when you melee them for a bit
they physically punch you back with their guns
fresh zephyr
If they were compelled to spam the aerial dive, I'd drop dead at the sight 💀
They've already been shown to rapid fire their warp lances at a terrifying rate of fire
trim grotto
They've already been shown to rapid fire their warp lances at a terrifying rate ...
Thank goodness that's just a bug
fresh zephyr
Thank goodness that's just a bug
I wouldnt be surprised if it ended up being lore accurate
lost abyss
I've always wondered what a Wyvern frame's purpose is. I once seen someone propose that they may be environmental demolition units, or something like that. They also said the blast shield they are equipped with may be for protecting nearby frames from debris.
trim grotto
Vex don't seem to do much explosive demolition
covert stone
They moreso just integrate into everything and dismantle it from within
fresh zephyr
I've always wondered what a Wyvern frame's purpose is. I once seen someone propo...
Guards and combat units
tbh wyvern don't really need arms for melee as they have two giant shotguns on them
fresh zephyr
Nope
then probably just security for the primary worker frames doing their jobs
because their wing shields are used to mainly provide some cover for other frames in the heat of battle
jagged badge
then probably just security for the primary worker frames doing their jobs
That’s just pure speculation. The reality is we have no lore about the Wyverns
trim grotto
literally none
we have one off-handed, non-named mention of a Wyvern
fresh zephyr
I think what convinces people that its combat unit is the fact is has more offensive capabilities
trim grotto
the most lore we have of them is their actual design and their names
trim grotto
I think what convinces people that its combat unit is the fact is has more offen...
yes but people who spout "combat unit" don't actually know where the line comes from, 80% of the time
fresh zephyr
calus
trim grotto
i know you do
we have discussed this before
fresh zephyr
him spouting about us fighting only farmers and engineers
trim grotto
him spouting about us fighting only farmers and engineers
Right, but this isn't a statement that combat units exist. It is a commentary that we haven't fought Vex specifically designed for combat alone, which is... mostly true. It is a warning. Beware, should they decide to do so.
fresh zephyr
I think what can be agreed upon is the fact it's wing shields hint at a heightened security role
sick yew
Have there been any developments in what Calus' final words mean btw
jagged badge
Non monsieur
sick yew
Sad
fresh zephyr
I think what can be agreed upon is the fact it's wing shields hint at a heighten...
but then theres the off chance it's primary function is something else entirely and it can just be used as a suedo shield
trim grotto
Pseudo. Yes, most likely. Every weapon the Vex use is primarily a tool, no matter how deadly.
fresh zephyr
With the vex, they have created the ultimate multitools in their weaponry
trim grotto
One could take a shower every week or two Alex
next bobcat
Savagery
sick yew
alright you win this round
Could have hit right back simply with "yeah thats obvious" but alright I take the W
fresh zephyr
the wyvern does have very resistant armor
sick yew
Isnt there like 0 lore on Wyverns or something
jagged badge
Could have hit right back simply with "yeah thats obvious" but alright I take th...
And then you can hit back with 
sick yew
Sssssh dont spoil
trim grotto
literally none
we have one off-handed, non-named mention of a Wyvern
smh
can't believe alex didn't read the context
sick yew
He never does
fresh zephyr
Isnt there like 0 lore on Wyverns or something
only lore is that their wing shields help them maintain balance, but thats just common sense design wise
dim minnow
it is interesting to note that the first known instance of Wyverns were in a group of Vex that are specifically labeled as an "invasion force"
sick yew
only lore is that their wing shields help them maintain balance, but thats just ...
Great, now I have a mental image of the Vex trying to design Wyverns and them just constantly falling over cause they didnt get the balance right
dim minnow
which is apparently unlike the other groups of Vex we encountered (except for the Sol Divisive during Undying if that counts)
fresh zephyr
it is interesting to note that the first known instance of Wyverns were in a gro...
yes
perhaps wyverns are simplier much more heavier units
they have very resistant armor and pack a huge punch
dim minnow
so maybe Wyverns had a role in establishing architecture in unfamiliar terrain
fresh zephyr
is that backed by their big legs?
dim minnow
and maybe when the Vex saw how effective they were against guardians, they decided to start using them in other places
dim minnow
is that backed by their big legs?
and maybe the keeping balance thing
maybe it's why they're heavier and have shields to protect smaller units
unfamilar terrian would have many threats that they need to account for
also their mind core is not exposed unless they get staggered
fresh zephyr
I forgot, how does keeping balance relate to scouring unfamiliar terrain?
dim minnow
I forgot, how does keeping balance relate to scouring unfamiliar terrain?
so you don't fall in unfamilar terrain
fresh zephyr
Right
Checks out with me
two giant heavy shotguns would most certainly clear out unfamiliar terrain
dim minnow
two giant heavy shotguns would most certainly clear out unfamiliar terrain
it functions as both extreme threat removal and demolition to make space for on the spot building
dim minnow
just making educated guesses based on what is established in Taken Vex unit grimoire cards
fresh zephyr
what does it say
dim minnow
-Taken Hobgoblin
You are a Minotaur. A walking foundry. Your first purpose is to think about construction — folding space and time into the design. Your second purpose is to eliminate threats to the design.
-Taken Minotaur
You are a Goblin. A multifunctional armature. Your first purpose is to build — to alter the material world so it can think. Your second purpose is to eliminate threats to building.
-Taken Goblin
or perhaps their weaponry is just for their secondary purposes
fresh zephyr
perhaps
i forget are these descriptions of taken enemies the darkness speaking to the taken enemy?
dim minnow
"You are a Wyvern. A stampeding bulwark. Your first purpose is to guard your fellow builders - to provide them with protection in unfamilar terrain. Your second purpose is to eliminate threats within the unfamiliar terrain."
dim minnow
i forget are these descriptions of taken enemies the darkness speaking to the ta...
if I'm correct, the new grimoire anthology seems to imply it is the Winnower's doing
fresh zephyr
if I'm correct, the new grimoire anthology seems to imply it is the Winnower's d...
I see
ive always wondered who was the narrator
dim minnow
"You are a Wyvern. A stampeding bulwark. Your first purpose is to guard your fel...
what do you think?
we know that when Oryx takes someone, they are sent someplace
fresh zephyr
"You are a Wyvern. A stampeding bulwark. Your first purpose is to guard your fel...
well there you go, security detail
dim minnow
well there you go, security detail
keep in mind I made this up on the spot
trim grotto
well there you go, security detail
dova wrote that
dim minnow
dova wrote that
it looks good though doesn't it
it could really fit as an excerpt for "The Taken: Wyvern"
trim grotto
hm
fresh zephyr
it looks good though doesn't it
it definitely looks like it would belong in a grimoire
It can be agreed upon though that wyverns are the most combat oriented of all vex frames
dim minnow
of course, but Vex do not think that way
the idea that they started adopting them everywhere else because they were effective on Europa is a neat headcanon
fresh zephyr
of course, but Vex do not think that way
they dont think in classes?
dim minnow
they dont think in classes?
no like their method of thinking in general is way different from ours
like there are things they don't percieve that we do and things that they percieve that we can't
they don't have a concept of morality, but they see time like reading a choose your own adventure book wrong
like their understanding of the universe differs so much from us
dim minnow
maybe they don't percive fighting that way at all
since they likely have no concept of malice
fresh zephyr
Just curiosity
dim minnow
and a desire to understand it
fresh zephyr
So what would their conflicts with us be described as?
trim grotto
An obstacle or a curiosity.
dim minnow
like maybe a Gardener having to deal with a pest messing with their crops
fresh zephyr
Or a winnower shaping and making the garden in a certain image
dim minnow
maybe both
fresh zephyr
Perhaps it due to their microscopic nature that they don't really emotion
They focus on building and overcoming any obstacle in their way
The vex are one of my favorite Sci fi factions in all of Sci fi
dim minnow
I find myself really interested in Vex and Hive psychology
fresh zephyr
I'd say vex psychology is more simple but haunting than hive
Because of how we know how they think and what it means
One more question: Since the description of a torch hammer says it causes exotic particle decay and deadly radiation, what would the impact and effect on a surface be like?
trim grotto
I think you'd want to look up an actual scientific paper for that one friend
I can recall a lot of lore but you're looking at a different field here
fresh zephyr
I see
I think it'd probably just be a hot melting effect or at the very least severe burns
Or perhaps the literal decay of a material
upbeat bolt
can someone explain the lore of microcosm its really interesting
trim grotto
can someone explain the lore of microcosm its really interesting
Terraformation. Going by the descriptions and an end phrase... it was the Traveler terraforming Mars, specifically. Eventually, greeted by the Ares One mission, as the first rains fell on its dusty surface.
sick yew
Basically the events leading up to the first destiny trailer of the Astronauts on Mars seeing the Traveler
trim grotto
What a privilege to witness you, at that time and at that place, as you turn your shielded faces up to the falling rain.
heady monolith
Terraformation. Going by the descriptions and an end phrase... it was the Travel...
mael, do you happen to have any interesting lore pieces you wanted to have an excuse to talk about, im stuck in an airport and violently bored
trim grotto
Did you hear the fun fact from earlier about Graviton Lance
heady monolith
ooo i have not
trim grotto
It was created by Golden Age Häkke!
[[Skimming. I see some interesting details. Häkke's Golden-Age predecessor had a terrestrial office in what was once the city of Chicago. They were involved in the development of gravity-based weapons. No BrayTech connections yet.]]
Shayura freezes. "Chicago?"```Gravity based weapons from Chicago
Sound familiar?
heady monolith
seeing an actual city being mentioned feels cursed
sick yew
seeing an actual city being mentioned feels cursed
Dont you remember the weeks leading up to Witch Queen? When we saw one second of swamp and everyone freaked out thinking we were gonna go to Old Chicago in said campaign?
Good days
heady monolith
i wasnt deep in the community around that time
i only got into the community around i think plunder¿?
sick yew
Ah
trim grotto
i wasnt deep in the community around that time
People saw swamp concept art and went silly since it was mentioned a few times prior
upbeat bolt
```What a privilege to witness you, at that time and at that place, as you turn ...
arent they holding the khvostov in this video aswell
trim grotto
arent they holding the khvostov in this video aswell
They are indeed
heady monolith
that one lore piece about the sparrow explosion and resonance, or whatever that thing that was being contained was
trim grotto
Not that one, silly
sick yew
That one was mentioned a lot too tho
trim grotto
that one lore piece about the sparrow explosion and resonance, or whatever that ...
That one is, uh
Actually less clear than I'd like
heady monolith
i must dive into the more body horror/horror lore
sick yew
Braytech Confidentials is the lorebook for you then
heady monolith
the one where immaru meets drifter's ghost is both sad and creepy 
sick yew
Or the K1 records
upbeat bolt
They are indeed
so how did a plain old regular khostov turn into the exotic one
trim grotto
so how did a plain old regular khostov turn into the exotic one
In D2, Pale Heart? It's memory shaped into form by the Light. It isn't the same Khvostov from the Cosmodrome, exactly.
blazing wasp
The exotic khostov is found in the physical manifestation of a world consisting of the travelers memories and other peoples memories
trim grotto
Same as the Pale Heart itself
upbeat bolt
that makes sense, and the lore entry for it depicts our ghost searching for us over years and years?
trim grotto
It does indeed.
upbeat bolt
is there any more context when it says that our ghost was shot
trim grotto
No. But that was 82 years before he found us.
heady monolith
if it wanted to, could a ghost just, fly right through something and kill it
trim grotto
"You died," the drone explained, hovering over him. It was smeared with a dark, filmy paste. "I brought you back."
He stood up and looked down at himself. Same clothes. Nothing hurt. The hulking wreck of the machine that had killed him sat in pieces a few meters away, inside a dark, sooty crater.
The body of an armored man lay sprawled over the smoldering open-air cockpit, his helmet punctured by a small hole about the size of... the drone.```Meet Drifter's Ghost
heady monolith
well, thats one way to meet each other
trim grotto
well
The man stared at the drone, frowned, and ran in the opposite direction.
"What? Hey!" the voice cried out behind him. He fled into darkness, tall grass on either side of him flying past. The only thing he could hear was his own breathing and the loud crush of the vegetation he trampled. He was surprised at how fast he was moving. The voice called to him again, far behind him.
He heard the roar of the machine before he saw it, and he didn't feel a thing as it exploded out of the tall grass to the right and landed on him, crushing him beneath its bulk.```This is how Drifter first met it
He died right after coming back
upbeat bolt
No. But that was 82 years before he found us.
could it have been fallen that shot him?
heady monolith
```For the first time, he noticed a small drone buzzing in the air around him, a...
i should seriously look into drifter's lore
trim grotto
could it have been fallen that shot him?
Potentially, yes. This is the only time it was mentioned, however.
trim grotto
i should seriously look into drifter's lore
Well that lore book is all about Drifter, and that is the first entry
If you want, that's a perfect start
heady monolith
If you want, that's a perfect start
i have reading to do later now 
trim grotto
i have reading to do later now <a:catvibe:1127748796957335734>
https://youtu.be/cciLt_d3Lo4?si=iKVWa6_sYCMHHA6R
And afterwards, watch this
upbeat bolt
wait so how did our ghost know about the tower, and what made it chose us over someone already in the tower? he wouldnt have had to venture out into dangerous wastelands and couldve just chose someone else
sick yew
Ghosts dont choose
Its not a pick your favorite kind of thing
They know when they found their guardian and only their guardian
jagged badge
wait so how did our ghost know about the tower, and what made it chose us over s...
The Last City had existed for centuries by time we were resurrected. Ghost absolutely would have known about it
He probably spent a lot of time there in between searching for us
trim grotto
wait so how did our ghost know about the tower, and what made it chose us over s...
The City had been standing for centuries. It was below the Traveler. Everyone knew about it.
As for who... Ghost spend centuries seeking out his chosen. If he could simply choose anybody, he and every other Ghost would have done so. Many still don't have their partners.
heady monolith
https://youtu.be/cciLt_d3Lo4?si=iKVWa6_sYCMHHA6R
And afterwards, watch this
what a jolly title and emoji choice
trim grotto
It's why the Ghosts rezzed the Hive
Those Ghosts lasted all this time since the Collapse without a partner
They finally found theirs
sick yew
Eliksni must really be mad as hell these days that they never got chosen to be resurrected
arctic iron
Eliksni must really be mad as hell these days that they never got chosen to be r...
there comes a new fallen genocidal big bad who creates his own species called the faken, but thats not all, he has two sisters who envy eachother where theres one youll never see in game and the other revives teh fallen years later with ghosts !!!
trust ive seen the scripts
sick yew
I trust
slim girder
```He opened his eyes in the night air and took an even breath.
"You died," the...
I wish we got to see ghosts do more aggressive things. Everytime I send mine out to hack something I can't help but think if that little laser they use could be used as a weapon or something. I don't expect them to do anything insane but I still think it'd be cool just to see them put up a fight. Targe would be the most recent example.
Think there's also a lore entry of a ghost doing the equivalent of casting a super but I haven't read that lore entry
blazing wasp
Think there's also a lore entry of a ghost doing the equivalent of casting a sup...
You're thinking of the ghost and the exo that could take over the exos body briefly iirc
slim girder
You're thinking of the ghost and the exo that could take over the exos body brie...
Again I haven't read the entry so I don't really know any details
ember storm
The City had been standing for centuries. It was below the Traveler. Everyone kn...
Imagine your family member is suffering in hospice and you’re trying to say your goodbyes and there’s a gang of ghosts stalking you outside the window trying to get in
empty fern
Imagine your family member is suffering in hospice and you’re trying to say your...
Spawn camping?
lost abyss
Imagine your family member is suffering in hospice and you’re trying to say your...
"Are you rez material" says one Ghost behind the glass
empty fern
“Guardian down” the ghost said calmly
ember storm
New fanfiction material, chronicle the life of Immaru while he was trying to get a risen, including resorting to killing people to make his own candidates
lost abyss
I need this, but I've never written fanfic lmao
dim minnow
Imagine your family member is suffering in hospice and you’re trying to say your...
meanwhile a horrific accident has an Eliksni civilian mortally wounded with him surrounded by people trying to help him. In the background, a group of Ghosts are staring at the scene wondering if rezzing him when he dies is possible. Then Drifter is just sitting to the side with a tub of garlic butter and a pot of boiling water and a dream
low gyro
meanwhile a horrific accident has an Eliksni civilian mortally wounded with him ...
... That sounds like a hilarious sketch
dim minnow
... That sounds like a hilarious sketch
even funnier if you take into account that Drifter canonically told a house Light refugee that he would taste good with a side of garlic butter back in Splicer
blazing wasp
even funnier if you take into account that Drifter canonically told a house Ligh...
Wasnt this also something that eventually deescalated a conflict between a person and said eliksni
blazing wasp
Yes, still hilarious
Walks in
Says you'll taste good with garlic butter
Deescalated situation
blazing wasp
Probably, glint used to be pulled pork
trim grotto
Same as guardians they just like choose one?
Their "true" name is whatever their Chosen names them. Anything else is... a nickname. It isn't real to them.
It's why Glint isn't Pulled Pork.
This entry outlines it pretty well
||Still just called "Ghost" to this day.||
low gyro
even funnier if you take into account that Drifter canonically told a house Ligh...
ngl there should have been an eliksni answering with "humans taste like (something)" kinda joke... weren't there boogeymen stories about the fallen eating babies
slim girder
ngl there should have been an eliksni answering with "humans taste like (somethi...
Yes. Saint even said he'd seen it when we rescued him.
Both parties had boogeyman esk stories though.
slim girder
Was looking at the concept art for Apollo. Any theories? Mine is that this is going to be like neomuna where a branch of humanity made it out the collapse only this time they managed to get out of Sol itself. Now they're a very "Tranquil" civilisation that see the colony ship they arrived in as something sacred.
Like they made the colony ship into a monument that possesses some power or something
Also no big buildings more temples and stuff like something monks would build.
The markings on all the clothes and tents remind of the one that represents xur.
It does still look human though considering that has to be a human colony ship in the center.
sleek matrix
Its probably some sort of cult
But its concept art things can easily change
Wouldn take it with grain of salt
slim girder
Wouldn take it with grain of salt
Oh definitely. But I don't think they'd stray too far from it. Usually concepts still have an idea set in stone
ember storm
But its concept art things can easily change
Remember when Xol looked like the fat caterpillar from bugs life
hazy veldt
So nezarec was first prismatic user
sleek matrix
So nezarec was first prismatic user
Really
dim minnow
So nezarec was first prismatic user
no, he ultimately failed to use both harmoniously
jagged badge
So nezarec was first prismatic user
No
hazy veldt
Well he failed to use them in harmony but he still was potentially able to do so
sleek matrix
The entire raid was basically a teaser for prismatic but its weird in a way
I thought they only started with pris after the final shape delay
Because it wasn't in the orginal reveal at all
jagged badge
Well he failed to use them in harmony but he still was potentially able to do so
That’s not how Prismatic works
We unlocked the powers of Prismatic very specifically through the Pale Heart
We found that specific well of Light and Dark and broke the barrier between them. It’s not just using them together as in one ability after the other, but about how Transcendence fuses them into that pink energy that’s both at once
sleek matrix
We found that specific well of Light and Dark and broke the barrier between them...
Reference video
If you watch it carefully it explains it pretty well visually
ember storm
Prismatic is only possible through the fusion of the veil and the traveler in the formation of the pale heart and the wells inside it
All Nezarec had was his own kind of darkness before taking stray shots of the traveler’s creation beam
trim grotto
He was also wielding them both in quite the volatile fashion.
trim grotto
Y'know, it's funny.
The enemies who came closest to destroying us were... Xivu Arath, the Hive God of War... The Witness, master of Darkness and perpetrator of the Collapse... and Dominus Ghaul, the entirely causal enemy with A Pretty Big Army™️.
Ghaul really went above and beyond his place in life
dim minnow
Ghaul really went above and beyond his place in life
helps when one of the Nine helped him out by delaying the game's release by one day
trim grotto
fake news
dim minnow
since it was on a Wednesday, the Guardians didn't see it coming
ember storm
The WOKE TRAVELER is just handing out the light these days
First Uldren, then the hive, then nezarec! What’s next? The FILTHY FALLEN RABBLE squatting in our walls?
dim minnow
First Uldren, then the hive, then nezarec! What’s next? The FILTHY FALLEN RABBLE...
godforsaken crabs
all of them!
slim girder
So nezarec was first prismatic user
No. More an abomination of light and dark. It's why he's screaming and more like a wild animal in the raid. He's in pain because the 2 forces are fighting inside him.
The wipe mechanic is a shockwave due to this clash.
slim girder
True. Wouldn't deny that he also enjoys the pain as the literal god of pain.
ember storm
I mean, would Poseidon like getting hit in the face with a fish every 5 seconds
slim girder
I mean, would Poseidon like getting hit in the face with a fish every 5 seconds
No but he probably enjoys being doused in water. Or if you threw lightning bolts at zeus.
blazing wasp
God of blood would probably enjoy having blood
slim girder
Blood for blood god, Skulls for the skull throne
jagged badge
A corrupted techeun?
Are you familiar with the opening cutscene of Taken King?
jagged badge
What does that look like?
So the Techeuns on the bridge with Mara are Sedia, Kalli and Shuro Chi. They opened self gates to the Dreaming City in order to escape Oryx’s attack, but the self gates were open too long and it led to them being Taken by Oryx and allowing his influence into the Dreaming City
Which in turn allowed Oryx to Take Riven
errant tapir
So the Techeuns on the bridge with Mara are Sedia, Kalli and Shuro Chi. They ope...
Hmm? How does taken work exactly?
jagged badge
Hmm? How does taken work exactly?
Their wills are removed and replaced by Oryx’s basically
They become empty slaves, “improved” upon (which is why Taken enemies have extra abilities over their normal variants)
I believe that because of a wish made by another Techeun, it allowed us to restore the three Taken Techeuns in Forsaken to normal
errant tapir
Their wills are removed and replaced by Oryx’s basically
Is there a video showing how taken work?
jagged badge
errant tapir
Oh yeah
Taken king was from D1
But God damn
Bungie cook
2015 with that animation?
Holy damn
Except where ghost showing traveller animation
Das just plain old boring hahahah
Regular animation
slim girder
Is there a video showing how taken work?
The closest we have to that would be a scene in which oryx takes one of his knights. He has what I assume is their will in his hand.
errant tapir
The closest we have to that would be a scene in which oryx takes one of his knig...
Show me
slim girder
errant tapir
Noice
errant tapir
https://youtu.be/rAZOVt4K8Tw?si=XU0NH5HZcJESa6jK
Wait
The traveller died?
How did that happen?
And how did it revive itself?
errant tapir
slim girder
^^^^
jagged badge
Us destroying the Black Heart in D1 helped it, and then in the Red War it finally became undormant for the first time since the Collapse
slim girder
Ever since D1 the traveler has been in a sort of hibernation state.
It has taken possibly centuries for the traveler to get to how it is now
ember storm
2015 with that animation?
Well they didn’t do it
Actually the studio who did these cinematics closed down recently
fast tapir
Actually the studio who did these cinematics closed down recently
rest in peace Axis Studios 
they were the reason the red war cutscenes were so goated
night imp
is Zavala an awoken? like mara sov?
what's goin on there
always though zavala looked a bit blue
jagged badge
is Zavala an awoken? like mara sov?
What else would he be?
ember storm
They are different on a biological and paracausal level, so not really
jagged badge
human
A blue human?
Despite the fact that he is…blue with the sorta wavy glow beneath his skin other Awoken have?
night imp
A blue human?
they exist
ever heard of the blueman group
or Paul Karason
maybe the guy is sick
jagged badge
fast tapir
night imp
when did it happen?
what caused it?
i remember mara sov has a story
dont remember the story, but i remember she had one
why is zavala an awoken?
been trying to get more into the lore
theres just soooo much shoved in your face as soon as you start, its hard to put weight on things
didnt realize "Zavala looks odd" would turn into "Zavala is awoken", because nothing in-game suggested me to believe, other than the skin color
but it wasnt til now that i realized the skin color was the color of the awoken
probably due to all the other stuff that tried taking my focus, successfully
jagged badge
why is zavala an awoken?
Born as one probably
Or maybe he was originally one of the human passengers who became the first ever Awoken
night imp
Born as one probably
from who? zavala is a huge character
thought there would be more backstory
how did the guy become awoken?
is it really "idk"? for a character this engrained?
jagged badge
They reproduce and thus people are born as Awoken
night imp
people saying other things are a big deal, things i dont care about
for me, this is a big deal
its all perspective
just thought thered be more backstory to it
jagged badge
The only thing really known about Zavala’s backstory before his resurrection is that he was an Awoken who left the Reef to go to Earth
night imp
could say none of the destiny story matters, people just wanna grind
but i wanna know
well TFS gave some
doesnt explain the awoken stuff though, at least i dont think so
jagged badge
well TFS gave some
If you’re referring to Safiyah, that was from Zavala’s life as a Lightbearer
jagged badge
Lightbearers don’t remember their pasts before their initial resurrections. Safiyah was someone Zavala met and loved in the the Dark Age
night imp
thats assuming
jagged badge
So?
night imp
that was my question
jagged badge
It’s not delved into because as I said, it isn’t a big deal. It’s just another species
night imp
let me rephrase it
jagged badge
People can just be Awoken
jagged badge
There’s a funky story behind the origin of the Awoken as a species, but then past that they are just another species
night imp
"is this documented, or is it assumed?"
thats my rephrasing
not trying to attack, im just very abrasive with how i try to find things out, cause i dont got the time 😔
jagged badge
anyone can
You can’t become Awoken. The original ones did through specific circumstances, but everyone after was born as the Awoken species like normal
night imp
didnt mara sov become awoken?
jagged badge
Yes
night imp
so people can become awoken
jagged badge
Since the first Awoken, the origin of the species entirely, other people can’t just become Awoken
They are born that way through Awoken having children
night imp
so, mara sov was an original awaken, she turned
but its assume zavala was born awaken?
jagged badge
Mara Sov was the first ever Awoken, she helped reconstruct the once human passengers of the Yang Liwei colony ship into this new race, and then their society developed from then
night imp
never heard of Yang Liwei
jagged badge
but its assume zavala was born awaken?
It’s just not known, beyond the fact that he once was from the Reef
night imp
so zavala is a descendent, in a way? not an OG awoken, but was birthed from awoken?
idk what the reef even is. although it sounds familiar, from the Pale Heart
jagged badge
The Reef is an asteroid belt the Awoken settled in in the Solar System
They built many cities and outposts within it, including the Dreaming City
night imp
so his parents must have been awoken?
unless bungie decides to change the lore, is that the accepted mindset?
or does no one care enough to dive
jagged badge
Like I said, it’s just simply not a big deal within the lore
jagged badge
Because it just doesn’t
night imp
gotta say, thats kinda sad
jagged badge
No?
jagged badge
We know loads about Zavala
night imp
seems like tfs tried giving some backstory
but here we are, "no one cares", about how this guy became the race he is
kills my motivation to dive into lore
jagged badge
seems like tfs tried giving some backstory
Okay, first of all, no
night imp
this is why i love zelda. they always have SOME kind of answer
yeah, we literally saw the grave of his kid
saw the tensioned cutscene
jagged badge
TFS didn’t “try giving him some backstory”. He already had this backstory with Safiyah and Hakim. This was known lore about him
night imp
yet we dont know why or how he is awoken? seems like a big thing, awoken are a completely different species
yet most go in thinking hes just human. but he isnt, for a reason
and im just coming across that realization, and now im curious
but im being told "who cares"
jagged badge
TFS didn’t “try giving him some backstory”. He already had this backstory with S...
First it was hinted about, I believe in Season of the Chosen. Then Season of the Haunted delved into Zavala’s past with his family, and his regrets and grief about them
jagged badge
yet most go in thinking hes just human. but he isnt, for a reason
???
I promise you that’s not the case
People see that they can pick a blue race called the Awoken, see a blue guy and make the connection that he’s an Awoken
night imp
???
gotta look at it from a new light perspective. i promsie you, about 20~ newer players i play with, all think human
jagged badge
How
night imp
nah, cause "awoken" isnt really exposed much, other than the char selection screen
not during new light phase
i didnt even really consider "awoken" til after i completed my first raid
recently started diving in
yet i spent my first year just doing vanguard ops, zavala hits home. wanted to know more about him
jagged badge
but im being told "who cares"
You’re taking this in a really negative way and I don’t understand why
night imp
im just confused
you did mention "we arent sure", but it was more of a "no one cares, why care?"
now i feel silly for digging
when honestly, it seems like theres some story behind it, and i wanna know it
night imp
then ima go the Zelda route and start creating some theories
jagged badge
The game doesn’t need to go in to the precise details of the births and childhoods of every single character. That’s just simply not the case across every piece of media in existence really
night imp
thats literally why fandoms exist
jagged badge
Yes, Mara Sov has a funky backstory around becoming the first Awoken, and that’s understandably a big deal. But Zavala simply doesn’t. Most Awoken characters don’t
They just are Awoken
night imp
people spend time on dumber things. this is interesting, in terms of destiny lore, at least to me
and yeah, mara got her backstory
night imp
we know why mara is awoken
we know she is the start of it
why is zavala awoken? thats pretty wild to me
theres gotta be a story there
branched off whatever mara started
and he is a huge character, lead the army against the witness
jagged badge
theres gotta be a story there
No
There doesn’t
I’m not trying to be rude
But there just doesn’t
night imp
and vanguard ops, not even story wise, many are attached due to him being the center piece of beginning-game content
jagged badge
It’s not a big story that people are born
night imp
dont need any lore, just guns and abilitys and classes
jagged badge
doesnt need to be for mara either
Mara is the Awoken queen. Telling her story about the origin of the Awoken species is important
Telling the story about how every single individual Awoken character was born is not
night imp
but "who cares why this huge character descended from this strange race"
im not sold on it not mattering, ya know?
just cause it doesnt exist doesnt mean it shouldnt be a topic of curiosity
really hoping they introduce it in the future
night imp
do you work for Bungie?
whats the next raid boss gonna be 😒
not a big deal to you
i find the topic very interesting
im sure others do too. i know my mates do
jagged badge
He was likely just born to Awoken parents like most other Awoken. There’s no story. There doesn’t need to be
What’s actually important is what we do know about Zavala’s history
night imp
dont gatekeep lore
night imp
im just sayin, this is a topic that throws me off. "he was born awoken, thats it". how did that contribute to his standing in the vanguard? who are his parents? is zavala related to mara, or did his ancestors get turned like the taken?
jagged badge
im just sayin, this is a topic that throws me off. "he was born awoken, thats it...
His life before he became a Guardian has no relevance because he doesn’t remember any of it. The only thing we know about it at all is that he left the Reef to go help humanity on Earth. And then his ship crashed and he died. And then Targe resurrected him in the Light. And then he was actually the Zavala we know
And we know a great deal about our Zavala’s actual life, and not whoever he was before
night imp
so we know he was awoken from birth, yeah?
jagged badge
No
night imp
the awoken was introduced after ghosts were distributed, wasnt it?
jagged badge
the awoken was introduced after ghosts were distributed, wasnt it?
Kinda
night imp
ill grab the popcorn
we never see when other characters get resurrected, eh?
so far all we know, Zavala could have been turned awoken after being resurrected
jagged badge
so far all we know, Zavala could have been turned awoken after being resurrected
No, that’s not possible at all
night imp
mara turned awoken
just seems like theres no barriers preventing that idea. but i dont know enough about the awoken to understand
and thats why Zavala being awoken tripped me up
jagged badge
For one, I already mentioned that we knew that Zavala was an Awoken who left the Reef for Earth, before dying and being resurrected
night imp
ohhh, my bad, i didnt parse that right the first time
so we already know he was awoken before he passed
jagged badge
We have actually seen Zavala’s resurrection depicted, back in a trailer for Destiny 2’s original launch. I can find that for you if you’d like
night imp
please
found it i think
Zavala Prelude Trailer
now im sooooo lost
did ressurrect as an awoken. probably got ressurrected a lot later than the initial ghost distribution, and the awoken was created between the initial & zavala's ressurection?
jagged badge
Kinda
Both the Awoken and the Ghosts were born due to the Collapse. The humans on board the Yang Liwei colony ship got caught between the clash between the Traveler and the Black Fleet. The clash of Light and Dark caused a kugelblitz and the passengers just sorta stopped being. And then Mara Sov recreated them all as the Awoken, and they woke up in a pocket dimension they named the Distributary. The Ghosts were created by the Traveler in its last moments before going dormant. Eventually, Mara managed to return to the Solar System with half of the Awoken, where they established the Reef I mentioned earlier. This was perhaps centuries into the Dark Age. This introduced Awoken to the Solar System, and then later some Awoken like Zavala would go to Earth to help
Some would make it. Some like Zavala would die. And some would be resurrected, like Zavala
night imp
they didnt start at the exact same time, though, did they? feels like one impacted the other
i gotta look into the awoken more
cause in my mind, it started once the darkness was discovered
and that didnt happen til the traveler did that burst of light during the red war
which was after the ghosts were distributed
jagged badge
cause in my mind, it started once the darkness was discovered
The Awoken were created in the Collapse, around a millennia (probably) before the Red War
night imp
really wish they had timestamps for these events
i remember halo almost always specified the year things occurred in
jagged badge
I’m afraid Destiny is the complete opposite
Very, very lax and vague time frames for things
night imp
The Pyramid Fleet retreats to the edge of the galaxy
The Traveler loses a shard
The Traveler releases countless Ghosts
wait...
Exodus Green ends up inside of an anomaly of Light and Darkness and its passengers wake up in the Distributary becoming the first Awoken.
mara sov isnt the first awoken?
or at least not the only first?
jagged badge
mara sov isnt the first awoken?
She was the first, and she guided the others into becoming Awoken
night imp
what are the passengers of Exodus Green?
jagged badge
You can read the Awoken’s origin in the Marasenna lore book
jagged badge
what are the passengers of Exodus Green?
How do you mean?
night imp
> Exodus Green ends up inside of an anomaly of Light and Darkness and its passen...
talking in reference to this
night imp
You can read the Awoken’s origin in the Marasenna lore book
its dreaming city lore, yeah?
how do i get the lore books? is it shattered throne or last wish?
jagged badge
Neither, the Marasenna is old enough that it’s simply just unlocked. Alternatively, the Ishtar Collective website lets you read any lore book, entry or grimoire or whatever
night imp
ima hate myself for reading this
could be reading a tech book, something to help me be more productive 😭
but ima come back with some answers
trim grotto
Aw I missed an Awoken discussion
ember storm
The fuck was this
Anyways to summarize, “becoming awoken” was only something that happened to the first group who were originally just human colonists
The past life of guardians rarely comes up, the only reason a few ingame characters have it going on is because it’s legitimately relevant to their stories and arcs
There would be literally zero difference whether Zavala was one of the original colonists or simply a descendant, it has no bearing on his actual character
I’m all for latching on to specific bits of lore (doghives my beloved) but it is simply not a topic that really needs to be “answered”
jagged badge
Yeah precisely
shrewd ravine
Honestly uh
What even are the taken
I never thought about it till now
Does it have something to do with the ascendent plane or whatever it’s called?
trim grotto
As their name suggests, they are creatures that were Taken by a greater entity - mostly Oryx - and transformed, corrupted, turned into a being without any will of its own, beholden to that which controls it.
dim minnow
Honestly uh
Oryx sends those he takes to a Dark place (liekly the Winnower) where they are stripped of their will and "reduced" down to their most "perfect" form
shrewd ravine
As their name suggests, they are creatures that were Taken by a greater entity -...
I’m guessing that after we ended oryx the witness controlled them?
ember storm
Witness is said to be the original master of the taken
Oryx earned the power to take through force and earning an audience with “The Deep”,
Witness had been inactive for ages, so Oryx was just the only one actively using taken at that time
The existence of Quria confirms that there’s never just one sole “owner” at a time though
Different taken were just being used at different times
lost abyss
Just to add, Xivu Arath also had several Taken under her command, as well. I don't know what her status with the Taken is now, after the unmaking of the Witness.
Wait, I didn't realize the discussion was from hours ago lmao
sweet locust
Anyone here knowledgeable on titans?
Was it ever told or teased what light subclass we Ning used most with her fist?
I assume void since fighting lion has the iconic lore piece on her moving a mountain with her fist?
trim grotto
Wei preferred Solar, by my understanding.
sweet locust
Solar? Is there more lore on her using it?
trim grotto
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/fire-victorious-shell
Wei also created Eriana's Vow. For Eriana.
But, she's also a known user of Arc.
—Wei Ning```So, there. She has a bit of a variety, really.
slim girder
Wei preferred Solar, by my understanding.
I believe wei ning was actually a void titan. She did use arc yes but based on Ishtar calling her a defender titan I'd say that's a pretty clear indicator void was her strong suit.
Also back then I don't think there were any sunbreaker titans under the city iirc.
slim girder
Honestly sounds like her and Saint 14 would be good friends with the amount of aggressive tactics that employ.
trim grotto
I believe wei ning was actually a void titan. She did use arc yes but based on I...
She has used every element. She lit the Fire Victorious. She has references to being a Striker.
Void is actually her least referenced element
In fact, one of her references to Void is how she didn't vibe with it
That never worked for me. I just get really, really angry and then the Light does the rest."
—Wei Ning```What is the fire victorious? Because from what I can tell lighting fires doesn't immediately mean solar light. I view it sort of like how Saladin keeps the torches of the iron temple lit.
Also you are right, going back on the lore I do think arc might have been her preferred instead of void. I still don't truly believe she had access to solar light though unless there's an entry I've missed stating it.
Also I do still wonder why Ishtar calls her a defender titan. That choice of words can be very misleading if taken literally.
trim grotto
All Titans are defenders by stereotype. They hold the line and defend the Wall.
slim girder
I guess. Idk putting the capital D on Defender says to me that it means the subclass from D1.
trim grotto
...the Fire Victorious, the ever-burning flame of the Titan Firebreak order.
Z: "Callisto Yin. Thank you for joining us today."
CY: "My pleasure, sir."
Z: "You singlehandedly carried the Fire Victorious from the City as it fell, ensuring that the flames first kindled by Wei Ning so many years ago would continue to burn. For that, we thank you."
CY: "Any of the Firebreak Order would have done as much."
NM: "The repairs to Firebreak Plaza are almost complete. I think we may have the relighting ceremony as soon as next week."
CY: "With all due respect, we have decided not to bring the Fire Victorious back to the City. Not in the same way."
FWC: "What do you mean?"
CY: "One torch in one city is too small."
IR: "What do you propose instead?"
CY: "Now each of our Ghosts bears embers of the Fire Victorious. Wei Ning's flames will go with us to each new battlefield."```Right, but that also doesn't have a source reference. Ishtar summaries are written by fans, not Bungie.
It didn't take long to go over all of her entries.
Most references are to Arc.
slim girder
```Consensus Meeting 3267.56
Z: "Callisto Yin. Thank you for joining us today."
...
It says they were first kindled by her. Seems to me like this whole order could have been the ones keeping those fires burning. Again like how Saladin keeps the fires of the iron temple burning. Idk I just don't think solar light was involved and this is more a symbolic fire like the pit in the iron temple.
trim grotto
Saladin is rather well known for his Solar as well.
slim girder
True. Again though unless confirmed I'm just not sure about it. I don't deny wei ning used solar light but i just can't help but think wei ning was purely a striker with some void thrown in sometimes.
No mention of hammers just all punching which while yes screams titan would be especially true for a striker.
trim grotto
True. Again though unless confirmed I'm just not sure about it. I don't deny wei...
Arc was her primary, yes. I only ever found one reference to Void, and that was saying she didn't do Void well. The only other reference is to the Fire Victorious. That is all there is.
slim girder
Arc was her primary, yes. I only ever found one reference to Void, and that was ...
There was another reference to void that mentioned her. A titan having a rant about how warlocks rifts was copying ward of dawn and that warlocks were now winning fistfights with titans.
Wei was said that she'd be ashamed
trim grotto
That is not about her. That is about D2 subclasses evolving.
It was a Forsaken release entry
When the middle tree subclasses dropped
It's why they're complaining about the Well of Radiance being Ward of Dawn
trim grotto
Yes, but the mention of Void was a separate, unrelated comment.
slim girder
Also speaking of subclasses evolving has there been any kind of lore since then? Only thing on prismatic is some cryptic messages and still not that much on stasis or strand either aside from notes just explaining what they are.
trim grotto
Strand did have those entries from the perspectives of new Strand users of each class.
slim girder
Yeah. Prismatic seems to have the same only it seems to be more about reflection and thoughts about the traveler.
Like a warlock thinking back to their meditation as a new light
fresh zephyr
What's the best theory we have on what type of metal vex frames are made out of?
trim grotto
Depends on the frame. One moment.
slim girder
What's the best theory we have on what type of metal vex frames are made out of?
This is already known I believe
fresh zephyr
I'm not sure
blazing wasp
Really shitty copper
fresh zephyr
There's answers like solid radiolaria, a bronze-copper alloy, unknown metal, etc
fresh zephyr
Really shitty copper
Is there lore stating this or is this a theory?
blazing wasp
Really shitty copper
If it's actually copper I'd like to state to the judge this is a joke
fresh zephyr
Oh
blazing wasp
Ea-Nasir
fresh zephyr
Because we usually take down vex frames with ease, but then you have things like wyverns where they're up-armored
slim girder
As mael said this is based on frame
blazing wasp
Ea-Nasir
A famous historical figure around 3.7 thousand years ago
Known for selling exceptionally bad copper
slim girder
Different vex possess different integrity to their frames. Not to mention things like hydras and wyverns having their own shield devices on top of their frames.
fresh zephyr
I kind of thought they just all use the same metal at different armor thicknesess
slim girder
Can't tell you how many times I've fired a rocket at a wyvern on for it to step to the side causing it to hit the shield and do nothing
slim girder
@fresh zephyr the vex we typically face are just bronze
I think I said this before but the vex we fight aren't actually fighters more builders. Their "weapons" aren't actually designed with combat in mind.
And so the material they're made from reflects that. If they truly wanted a fight a metal like titanium would be a better option for stopping bullets
fresh zephyr
Yeah just send it some wyverns and the situation is handled
blazing wasp
The vex overwhelm everything and everyone due to attrition alone
slim girder
They are infinite
blazing wasp
Bob the constructive worker with a nail gun cannot defeat the US military, sure
But what if bob has seventeen trillion copies
fresh zephyr
If I'm not mistaken their weapons aren't anything to scoff at either, despite their main purpose being anything from combat.
blazing wasp
Jackhammers can harm people too
fresh zephyr
Yeah
blazing wasp
Tools used to weld metal and break apart rock is probably not that harmless
slim girder
A goblins slap rifle is more akin to a tig welder or key
fresh zephyr
A minotaur wielding a torch hammer is the equivalent of you giving a construction worker an impact grenade launcher
slim girder
Think of it this way. I have a plasma cutter. Not all that harmful right? But what if I used it to take a leg off the Eiffel Tower. Then it becomes a lot more threatening
A vex collective using something like an oracle to search timelines in an area while not classified as a weapon absolutely poses a threat.
fresh zephyr
Indeed
slim girder
The vex also excavate as well. That might seem harmless but if they go underneath something like a city even though it's not their intention the inhabitants of that city now have a threat to deal with
Vex activities are almost never because they're planning to attack something more just spread their influence and "Vexify" things
It's all they know
fresh zephyr
I see
But we can all agree that the warp Lance is probably the deadliest ranged weapon/tool the vex have on a frame
slim girder
Yes. Those are their most dangerous tools. As they breakdown atoms as they pass through matter which causes radiation
fresh zephyr
Is that based on the description of the torch hammer?
blazing wasp
Probably ment to work as a boring machine, and I don't mean in the fun/boring sense
slim girder
Both are void weapons so I'd like to think that they'd behave the same with the vex but just have different firing mechanism
blazing wasp
Probably ment to work as a boring machine, and I don't mean in the fun/boring se...
High spread high power borderline explosive guns with side shielding and a focus on forward protection
fresh zephyr
Both are void weapons so I'd like to think that they'd behave the same with the ...
Yeah I've asked about that and I got the answer that it's likely or unlikely
The torch hammer is said to cause exotic particle decay, what would that look like on a target?
slim girder
The explosive tools of the vex are exactly the kind of thing they'd use for breaking down materials it's exactly what they've done to nessus. Broken everything down and transformed it into vex material.
slim girder
The torch hammer is said to cause exotic particle decay, what would that look li...
Imagine being ripped apart but down to the very molecules that make up your body.
ember storm
Vex are made of vextanium
Like how the Michael bay transformers are made of transformium
fresh zephyr
Probably ment to work as a boring machine, and I don't mean in the fun/boring se...
I'm gonna guess you've been killed by them too many times that it got very annoying
blazing wasp
I'm gonna guess you've been killed by them too many times that it got very annoy...
No
I tend to handle them quite well
I die more to hydras nowadays
fresh zephyr
Imagine being ripped apart but down to the very molecules that make up your body...
Ripping apart as in not leaving much behind?
slim girder
Ripping apart as in not leaving much behind?
Not leaving anything behind
Your particles are gone
fresh zephyr
I die more to hydras nowadays
Interesting
slim girder
No it's broken down into essentially nothing. Like imagine if you had a dust particle and were able to remove it from existence.
fresh zephyr
I tend to handle them quite well
Oh so you think they're just boring enemies?
blazing wasp
No
fresh zephyr
No it's broken down into essentially nothing. Like imagine if you had a dust par...
Oh
blazing wasp
Boring machine, the real life machine
Wyverns aren't machines, but their role is similar to a real life machine, a vehicle
slim girder
The big giant drills for tunnel construction
blazing wasp
Used to make tunnels
blazing wasp
It's a rational misconception
fresh zephyr
No it's broken down into essentially nothing. Like imagine if you had a dust par...
That is deadly
Does that mean that even if the vex are going up against some very heavily armored enemies, with time they'll entirely break down?
slim girder
Yes. The vex are infinite. They'll eventually overcome any obstacle
And they have tools to do so
fresh zephyr
I mean as in when a particle decaying projectile hits a heavily armored enemy
slim girder
Yes. Vex possess the most powerful "weapons" of any species we've seen aside from the witness.
fresh zephyr
I see
slim girder
If it needs to be broken down they'll do it
fresh zephyr
Very interesting
slim girder
Vex only know the pattern. If it can't fit it has to be cut away or made to fit.
fresh zephyr
There's a server where in a Sci fi versus channel, I pit vex frames against things like star wars troops and Droid, so thank you very much for this information
slim girder
Np. 
Though if we're on that topic
I think the flood from halo vs the vex would be an interesting fight
fresh zephyr
Trust me man, that match up has been brought up alot ever since I pitched it once in a server
People think the logic plague just destroys the vex entirely
When they're forgetting that what the logic plague is essentially is an extremely thought provoking conversation
slim girder
Tyranids are infinite. They are considered in Warhammer 40k to be the end of the universe
Perfect killing machines capable are rapid evolution to suit any situation and whose only goal is to feed.
The way they take planets isn't too far off from what vex might do to a planet
slim girder
Well I guess then I'd say the vex have more ranged weaponry then they do
Tyranids have that as well. Living artillery
As well as handheld weapons
Just like the vex it's all about the perfect organism for the job.
fresh zephyr
I see
Now that I think about it, the vex have the perfect weaponry to deal with the flood
fresh zephyr
As well as handheld weapons
Wait I forgot yeah they have swords and guns of their own
I'm going to attempt to either pit the minotaur or the wyvern against the star wars separatist crab droid
I asked someone in a star wars channel how bronze alloy would hold up and they said in most cases not well
fresh zephyr
Now that I think about it, the vex have the perfect weaponry to deal with the fl...
Because since it breaks down all the particles in a body, that means it will break down flood supercells as well
blazing wasp
Vex would probably be awful to infect, if not impossible
So they'd be good against the flood yeah
slim girder
Vex would probably be awful to infect, if not impossible
Flood has infected mechanical things before like monitors and other AIs.
And the radiolaria is organic.
blazing wasp
Flood has infected mechanical things before like monitors and other AIs.
And th...
Yeah, vex arent AI, and anything touching the radiolaria becomes vex
At least most stuff, but generally organic
fresh zephyr
Flood has infected mechanical things before like monitors and other AIs.
And th...
microbes wouldn't sustain the flood
ember storm
Flood has infected mechanical things before like monitors and other AIs.
And th...
But radiolaria convert on a microscopic level
It’s able to eat away at blight and turn taken into vex
jagged badge
Wait what
ember storm
Ghost: Well, our guy got away again. Asher, what was it you just said? That it's suicidal for the Taken to turn the Vex into scary void robots?
Asher: Completely suicidal! The Vex infect whatever they touch. Their self-replication subroutines would consume the Taken from the inside out. Perhaps they simply don't realise the dangers.
ember storm
I think kiryu could defeat the witness
lost abyss
Tiger drop negates all damage
frigid sparrow
Tiger drop negates all damage
INCORRECT! Depending on the game, tiger drop will NOT in fact negate ALL damage!
lost abyss
fresh zephyr
what do you think an aeon maul is mainly used for
ember storm
Darthing
trim grotto
what do you think an aeon maul is mainly used for
Dismantling materials, probably.
dim minnow
what do you think an aeon maul is mainly used for
well let's see, they are primarily used by Hydras
well, only used by Hydras
we never seem to have a specific role given to Hydras
the closest we have is of a Hydra that is a Vex mind
and the description is just for Vex minds in general
dim minnow
maybe managers
fresh zephyr
perhaps aeon maul are more of weaponry because of the need to protect vital nodes
dim minnow
it can be argued that the weaponry is for their secondary objective
according to some Taken unit grimoire cards, the Vex have a primary and secondary objective
the primary one is usually where some of the construction stuff comes into play while the secondary objective is to protect something related to the primary one
slim girder
which means they are command nodes of some sort
I like to think they are the "radio towers" of the vex. Give a vex sector a hydra and that then sends signals from the axis mind to all vex
This would also explain the extra shields they come equipped with.
heady monolith
INCORRECT! Depending on the game, tiger drop will NOT in fact negate ALL damage!
@sharp ermine what.
low gyro
Wait but if vex can convert the taken, then why does quria exist
blazing wasp
It's possible they can go both ways maybe?
slim girder
Wait but if vex can convert the taken, then why does quria exist
Quira was made to simulate the taken and retained some free will despite being taken. I feel that plays into it.
Just a special case scenario because of qurias purpose
low gyro
Hmm
How about taken hobgoblins
dim minnow
Just a special case scenario because of qurias purpose
also vex can only really counter Blight if there isn't a strong leader to the Taken
since Savathun was given ownership of Quria by Oryx, that may be why
or perhaps Quria was unwilling to undo the taking seeing it as an upgrade
slim girder
Vex and taken imo seem to want the same thing only the taken need a powerful being to direct them. The vex just follow the pattern by instinct.
Taken under the command of something would just coat everything in blight and take every living being
dim minnow
Vex and taken imo seem to want the same thing only the taken need a powerful bei...
well they are both derived from the Winnower (technically the Vex are not, but the Winnower likes their game)
slim girder
well they are both derived from the Winnower (technically the Vex are not, but t...
That "upgrade" might be the paracausality taken posess. A vex getting their hands on that kind of power would be catastrophic.
Provided it was purely under vex control. Not 1 vex under the command of someone else
dim minnow
if Truth to Power is anything to go by then Quria can do some real loopy shit
of course, we scrabbed that thing back in Splicer, but I do wonder if Quria can come back
since it seems that long dead enemies of ours can come back as Taken for some reason even though it is established that the dead can't be Taken
Drevis, Urzok, Valus Ta'aurc, Val Ca'uor
slim girder
Vex have restorative minds so I wonder if something like that could bring quria back. Just like they tried to summon back the black gardens heart using one
dim minnow
Vex have restorative minds so I wonder if something like that could bring quria ...
don't even need a restorative mind really
we ran a whole strike to kill one and SEKRION STILL CAME BACK ANYWAY
slim girder
since it seems that long dead enemies of ours can come back as Taken for some re...
Vex aren't living though in the traditional sense so it might be possible. Like you could "kill" a vex goblin but all you did was spill some radiolaria and cause a metal frame to fall over
It'd be more akin to rebuilding a broken robot
gilded thicket
speaking of Quria
I've been wondering, what was thr purpose of the whole Endless Night stunt? Was Savathun trying to dispose of Quria, or was it just something to keep us busy while she figures out how to go about getting rid of her worm?
sick yew
Well they were kinda stealing our energy and shit
slim girder
I've been wondering, what was thr purpose of the whole Endless Night stunt? Was ...
Energy and also tiring us since it was a literal endless night. There was even some lore I believe of some civilians not having slept because the endless night messed with their sleep schedule
Morale was down and you also had Lakshmi sowing conflict and turning the city civilians against the eliksni who had moved to the city.
fresh zephyr
Is it highly possible that the enemy projectiles in gameplay is how fastbthey are in lore?
I was watching the opening curse of Osiris cinematic and looked at how the minotaur shot it's torch hammer and the speed if the shots looked close or similar to that in game
It looked a bit faster due to how clean and quality the cinematic was
slim girder
It looked a bit faster due to how clean and quality the cinematic was
Cinematics often stretch things a bit for dramatic effect. But in general how you see things in game is how they operate in the lore.
Like you can't fan fire ace of spades like cayde did, you can't dart around as a dawnblade like Osiris did in that cinematic.
ember storm
Wait but if vex can convert the taken, then why does quria exist
The point being made is that taken were just invading the pyramidion and forcing vex into blights to make them taken instead of how oryx or the witness would do so
That ran the simple risk of coming into contact with radiolaria
fresh zephyr
Cinematics often stretch things a bit for dramatic effect. But in general how yo...
So technically I can say that a rapid fire wyvern is lore?
Even though it's a bug
slim girder
So technically I can say that a rapid fire wyvern is lore?
It's canon that hive Knights can start rapid firing now that we have one their weapons as an exotic so yeah I'd say you could say the same for wyverns.
fresh zephyr
It's canon that hive Knights can start rapid firing now that we have one their w...
Then that's pretty scary
slim girder
Not sure what you mean by bug though as all enemies have "enrage" mechanics where they'll just overcharge their weapons
fresh zephyr
People say it's a bug
But I didn't think about wyvern's also having a enrage mechanic
slim girder
Again all enemies have it. It's why when you're low health sometimes it seems enemies just double down and don't stop firing.
Part of their ai
fresh zephyr
Have you seen the clips of the rapid fire wyverns?
Instantly People are shocked and surprised
slim girder
Yes I have. That can also just be a latency thing.
fresh zephyr
Wow
All this time
Wyverns can just hose us down
If I'm going to be honest, the vex are extremely advanced so why not believe they can do that
slim girder
If you're ever fighting a wyvern instead of killing it let it just shoot and then see what it does. It should at some point try to chase you more aggressively. And it won't stop firing even when it doesn't have line of sight.
fresh zephyr
Yes I have. That can also just be a latency thing.
It also happens in the form of the normal fire rate accelerating to a faster fire rate
lost abyss
I'm pretty sure that was a bug, and it has been fixed iirc
They can "Rapid-fire" but not to the degree that the bug was allowing
fresh zephyr
They can "Rapid-fire" but not to the degree that the bug was allowing
So how does it happen now?
lost abyss
Sorry, rapid-fire wasn't the right term. It's more like consecutive firing of their Warp Lances, as Retro was saying.
hybrid sorrel
How do elements work in lore? is it as easy as switching between whatever subclass you want in the middle of a battlefield? or like do you have to do a 5 hour meditating session.
And how long does it take to get proficient at them all? are you just born good or do you have to learn it?
jagged badge
Some Guardians may be prodigies or just more adept at learning, but everyone has the same capacity for strength, so Ikora says
trim grotto
It depends how proficient you are. Many Guardians spend a long time mastering the different subclasses. Apart from ourselves, we've only seen Osiris - one of the most powerful and renowned Warlocks of history - rapidly switching his elements in a single combat.
As for the second question, it can be either or both.
hybrid sorrel
how does our guardian fare? is the guardian powerful compared to others or literally just some dude that got in the inner circle
trim grotto
Some have natural affinity towards elements, but hard work is always required.
trim grotto
how does our guardian fare? is the guardian powerful compared to others or liter...
Started out as the latter, has become the former.
For a long while, we were just in the right place at the right time, regularly. We became known as reliable, tenacious, and effective.
So we worked closer with the Vanguard as time went on
But we're undeniably powerful by now, at this point in history
hybrid sorrel
Oh yeah, when the guardian got reborn he was literally just some dude, fought regular enemies like the fallen, but now part of the fire team that killed the witness
trim grotto
Exactly haha
hybrid sorrel
Also what do we know about the fireteams that go in each raid? is it like different guys or the same people, I'd assume it's different
jagged badge
We don’t know that, I believe
trim grotto
But for a long time, one could argue we weren't particularly outstanding in raw strength. Raids are actually a good example, because most often, we are redirecting power to defeat enemies, rather than using our own raw strength.
jagged badge
It’d be funny if our player character has a specific fireteam of offscreen friends they made
trim grotto
Also what do we know about the fireteams that go in each raid? is it like differ...
That isn't elaborated on, on purpose. It's a headcanon moment.
hybrid sorrel
Oh, well is there anything at all? is the guardian canonically in all of them?
jagged badge
Yeah, the Guardian’s involved in them
trim grotto
Oh, well is there anything at all? is the guardian canonically in all of them?
Yes*
*arguably not but it's easier to say yes
Again, vague for headcanon
Some players don't raid - and post raid cutscenes often don't refer to you, specifically, being in them
Such as the Excision cutscene where Zavala gives his speech
jagged badge
Some dialogue does refer to previous raids even if you haven’t done them though
trim grotto
Also true
hybrid sorrel
Yeah new players are kind of just cooked, there's years of buildup in the relationship and stories and missions we've ran with ikora, and osiris, and saint-14, and zavala and everyone else, but for the new players the game just says
"here's some dudes, you're friends with them now"
jagged badge
I believe Spider quips about us destroying the Morningstar, and that’s not any kinda “vet dialogue”
trim grotto
Yeah new players are kind of just cooked, there's years of buildup in the relati...
It was a little like that even in D1
Because you are a random person with no memory, thrust into an established world with centuries old warriors
But I know what you mean
hybrid sorrel
It was a little like that even in D1
Because you are a random person with no mem...
What was our guardian doing in the cosmodrome btw? they're geared up they have armor, but no guns or anything, how did we get there
trim grotto
We didn't have armour. Ghost scrapped some junk together.
Also, nobody knows. If you were Human or Exo, maybe you wanted to join the Exodus project. Maybe you were a scavenger. No way to know.
hybrid sorrel
Oh...
Wait why couldn't he have scrapped some junk together to make a gun?
trim grotto
Guns are a bit more complex than basic cloth and scraps.
Ghosts, as adorable as they are, are limited in their actions.
hybrid sorrel
if you die as a guardian, what do you see before your ghosts brings you back?
trim grotto
Most Lightbearers don't see a thing. Some small, well trained few, see what their Ghost sees. Thanatonauts attempt to seek visions in death, to various levels of success... and failure.
hybrid sorrel
So either literally nothing, can see what their ghosts see, or thanatonauts which see thanatonaut stuff
trim grotto
Pretty much yeah
hybrid sorrel
Also what are classes in lore? like in game there's clear distinctions between abilities and playstyle, but how tf are they different in lore?
trim grotto
Different forms of wielding Light, different personalities.
Light is malleable and classes can learn from one another, but as Crow once said, you don't see a Warlock with a Golden Gun. So, think of classes as the way Light comes to you, the natural forms you wield it.
Subclasses, then, are the paths and teachings that experienced Guardians use to teach new Lightbearers to command their Light.
Every Lightbearer is a unique person with unique personalities, but classes often have shared traits amongst themselves, too.
sick yew
Also what are classes in lore? like in game there's clear distinctions between a...
Social constructs is what they are
hybrid sorrel
... There's two types of people
trim grotto
It's a bit of both.
sick yew
jagged badge
Social constructs is what they are
Kinda, kinda not
hybrid sorrel
are titans also crayon eaters in lore?
trim grotto
The well known ones aren't. There are some gremlins out there though, but the same can be said for any class.
jagged badge
There’s certainly lore playing up the Titans being dumb sometimes vibe. But there’s lore for all classes that show them as idiots
Like the Guardian Games lore a few years back
hybrid sorrel
are titans also crayon eaters in lore?
if someone doesn't say yes, this game sucks
jagged badge
I think Witch Queen era
hybrid sorrel
Like the Guardian Games lore a few years back
Well now I gotta know what happened
trim grotto
It's a bit of both.
Classes aren't hard locked. Drifter is a prime example, he is classless. But it's also clear, even back in the Dark Ages, that there were traits from the old "classless" Iron Lords that can correspond to the classes of today.
trim grotto
Well now I gotta know what happened
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/lions-pride
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mark-of-medal
All the Guardian Games stuff involves the "negative" stereotypes of classes
Dumb Titans, edgy Hunters, smug Warlocks
Pretty funny stuff
"He had four arms? You're telling me this guy's Eliksni?" Prak'kesh shot Tulnik a frown.
"I ain't licking nothing," the Sentinel scowled.```classic
jagged badge
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mark-of-medal
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/medal-bond
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/medal-mantle
Wait shit
trim grotto
silly
jagged badge
NOOOOO
hybrid sorrel
what just happened
trim grotto
Eris was slow
jagged badge
Oh nvm