📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

They have to run a bunch of simulations in off time to get results

[fresh zephyr]

whats an example of them using what they've learned to predict and win against enemies

[lost abyss]

Their incursion against the Hive, the Vex were relentless and Crota couldn't stop them, until his father Oryx arrived and took the Vex Mind that was built to understand the Sword Logic. Which that Vex Mind was able to simulate a lesser version of Oryx, and subsequently Take, like the King. iirc

[slim girder]

The martyr mind to imprison saint 14 because he just couldn't be stopped

[clear valve]

When Cayde asked uldron sov how his sister was, why was this such a big deal?

[ember storm]

She was dead and it was the turning point

Before the taken war Uldren was just pompous and acted higher to strangers but was still well-adjusted and had an actual personality

[clear valve]

oh she was DEAD

[ember storm]

Mara was also emotionally distant to him for their entire lives, leaving him desperate to do anything that garnered her respect

[clear valve]

Ahhh I see, what is the taken war?

[ember storm]

So after Oryx “killed” Mara, Uldren was corrupted by Savathun and riven and thought Mara was contacting him

[clear valve]

Interesting

[ember storm]

When Oryx arrived all pissed off because we killed his son Crota

It honestly wasn’t much of a war, the awoken fleet had one battle with Oryx’s flagship and lost

Then we went through a little song and dance of invading and killing him and his court

Anyway, Uldren who was thought to be killed in the war, found himself back in awoken territory but Petra just locked him up because of his apparent madness

Fast forward to the start of forsaken and there’s a whole prison break that leaves Uldren trying to save “Mara” because her voice is in his head telling him to, which he used to justify countless crimes and murders

Then some blue robot guy shows up and taunts him about it, so suffice to say Uldren wasn’t exactly amused

[slim girder]

Something else to note.
When you see uldren about to shoot cayde he closes his eyes. This was the mirage of riven posing as his sister egging him on to pull the trigger.

Uldren as himself wouldn't have killed in cold blood.

[clear valve]

Interesting

[ember storm]

…eh

In that specific situation, sure, but the closing of the eyes is just a reflexive trait

Crow has commented on doing the exact same thing whenever he’s sure to land a fatal shot with a sniper

[slim girder]

But would crow have the same habits as uldren even after coming back? Crow behaves nothing like uldren.

[trim grotto]

Some, yes. Destiny is a mixture of nature Vs nurture. Some things are core to you, even if experience shapes you.

[slim girder]

That's what I'm wondering. Like was Ana bray in the golden age different from the Ana we know now

[trim grotto]

True! But she still... Actually, let me get an example.

He did not, except that he said he could touch magnetic fields and loved to tweak the miniscule weave of the circuits in his robe. He had a zoogoer's enthusiasm for particle physics.```

Savin who was Chao Mu
A different person to be sure

But there are kernels of similarity

[slim girder]

Maybe the traveler has something to do with it. Maybe people who are risen aren't completely different people and still possess some bits of themselves if that makes sense.

[fresh zephyr]

Oh yeah I forgot Quria did that

[fresh zephyr]

They learned to contain light somehow

[trim grotto]

Exactly that. Ikora makes this revelation herself in the WQ CE. To be resurrected without memory is to be rid of inherent, unconscious biases. But there's still an aspect of you.
It is the same with Exo. They're still the same person between resets, but experiences can shape them all the same. It's why Cayde kept his journal.

[brittle dirge]

Majority of weapon manufacturers have exotics and most of the descriptions read like ads (take my favorite example, colony)

Also the same lore description makes it canon that snakes still exist

Don’t know if that’s important though

[trim grotto]

That specific snake is.

[brittle dirge]

Which snake was it again

I always forget the name

[trim grotto]

It lives in a region of South America, which is one of the reasons why we were able to home in on the location of the Last City

[errant tapir]

Day 24 of asking fun facts lore

[slim girder]

You know I'm kinda bummed about xivu losing her throne world. Considering what oryxs and savathuns look like, for the hive god of war in my mind I'm thinking things like volcanoes, fire and lava, constant fighting amongst powerful hive, meteors and just general destruction everywhere.

[jagged badge]

We already know what Xivu’s Throne looked like

It wasn’t what you’re imagining

[slim girder]

Where? Was it long ago that we were told what it looks like?

I don't recall any information on it.

[jagged badge]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/vii-xivu-arath-deathless#book-sororicide

[slim girder]

Swarmers tells the story of when vex kidnapped a whole generation of neomuni children. It's why there are paintings of children around neomuna on some buildings.

[slim girder]

I mean I was close lol.
Just instead of fire it's like something out of doom where everything is flesh.
Pretty metal

Or something like that game agony

[jagged badge]

[slim girder]

Too bad we'll prolly never see it unless it's possible for her to regain it.

[trim grotto]

I expect it has collapsed by now.

[lost abyss]

I hope we'll see it someday, too. We've seen the other two's thus far. I think it'd do Xivu a disservice to never see it.

[jagged badge]

I think from how it’s described it’s clear we aren’t going to be seeing it in game ever

[lost abyss]

Is the Dreadnaught only decaying slowly because it's his Throne inverted?

[jagged badge]

That visceral, fleshy, blood shit does not gel with this game’s rating

[lost abyss]

Yeah, that is a good point to make.

[slim girder]

Nah you could pull it off I'm sure. Just make the blood black or something. If the cabal can do it then so could the hive.

[jagged badge]

The point is we won’t be seeing it in game

It’s gone

[lost abyss]

The only time Bungie goes outside of the rating is in lore. It covers a wide variety of heavy subject matter.

[jagged badge]

We get a lore description because they have more freedom in writing

[lost abyss]

Lore has been adapted into the game before. I don't think that would be one of the reasons.

I can see the rating being an issue though.

[slim girder]

Lemme dream.

[errant tapir]

What

Who is swarmers?

[trim grotto]

The Exotic leg armour for Warlocks.

[slim girder]

The exotic

[flat jolt]

Isit the same snake that drifter uses for gambit signs? Or a different type?

[trim grotto]

Terciopelo? I haven't heard anyone connect them specifically before.

I don't believe there is a connection other than both of them being snakes

[flat jolt]

Kinda does have similar patterns thou

[trim grotto]

I've got an idea of where to dig
Give me a bit to catch up to it

[dim minnow]

you know, I still kinda want to know what exactly Drifter's and Cayde's relationship was as implied by the Ace in the Hole dialogue

like why did Cayde think he was a candidate for someone noteworthy that would kill him

at least with Hawthorne (as unlikely as Cayde thinks it would happen) there is an established relationship

[flat jolt]

Is Orin still alive? Friend of drifter. Destiny lore subreddit says the gambit snakes was her symbol that drifter borrowed

[dim minnow]

from the Red War

[dim minnow]

Orin became the Emissary of the Nine

secret Prophecy dialogue implies that she exists as a separate conciousness outside of the Emissary (or bound to it)

[flat jolt]

Like Xur?

[dim minnow]

and a line from the Dust lore book has me thinking that Nasya and Nasan-Ar are both there as well

[dim minnow]

not exactly

similar, but not quite the same

[trim grotto]

Similar, yes. Think of Xûr as the prototype to the Emissary.

She is more complete. Less... dying.

[flat jolt]

Xur originally didn’t have the tentacles did he?

[dim minnow]

we don't know what he looked like before

[trim grotto]

He has for as long as we've known him. Xûr was probably as human colonist once upon a time, but that was long ago.

[dim minnow]

we just know that he is a Jovian, so it is posible that the tentacles are a feature all Jovians share

but there is no confirmation on that until we actually encounter other Jovians

[flat jolt]

But we know that Jovian are an alien race and not some other term right

[dim minnow]

Jovians are like Awoken

once human, but were transformed

only the nature of their transformation is different

[trim grotto]

To be Jovian is to be amongst the planets such as Jupiter and Saturn

[dim minnow]

seemingly more intense and more "Dark"

[trim grotto]

It suggests a people who lived there, not a race

[flat jolt]

Ahah so he didnt have tentacles, hes just evolved/mutated

[trim grotto]

By the Nine. They changed him.

[dim minnow]

well we don't know if the tentacles were a result of the Nine or just being a Jovian

[flat jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/davy-jones-gif-20275144

[dim minnow]

again, we haven't even seen another Jovian other than Xur

[trim grotto]

While it is true we don't know, I would say the Nine is a safe bet.

[dim minnow]

and it is believed that the Nine themselves have a tight hold over the other Jovians

[flat jolt]

Are they any others like jovians? Living among or between certain planets?

[dim minnow]

some theorize that they live on the Moon Rhea

[trim grotto]

We've never heard of them in any context outside of Xûr or the Nine.

[dim minnow]

the closest comparison we have is Awoken and that is only due to both being originally human

but we have not met another actual Jovian other than Xur

[flat jolt]

The awoken reef is nearby Mars asteroid belt right?

[dim minnow]

Reef is a region of the Asteroid Belt between Mars and Jupiter

any planet beyond the Belt is classified as Jovian world

[flat jolt]

So after humans on earth, hive in mars, the awoken in the asteroids, the jovian between jupiter and saturn, neomuni in neptune, uranus is a ball of gas, pluto is not a planet anymore. Thats as far as we go i guess

[dim minnow]

Hive are not exclusive to Mars (and Mars is known to have many others on it)

Uranus did have a Braytech station in its orbit though

[flat jolt]

Ooo I thought its only filled with scorn and hive

[trim grotto]

Possible, but probably not. She had the tattoo when she was rezzed.

[dim minnow]

and I think there was a Vex incident on Pluto during the Golden Age

[flat jolt]

Knowing braytech, i guess even they decided its safer not to land in uranus

[dim minnow]

Mars was known to have Cabal and Vex back in D1 and even had Fallen at one point

Cabal were still there in D2 too

Vex probably, but they were getting their ass kicked

[flat jolt]

Did the hive move in and eradicated the others ?

[dim minnow]

the Hive arrived on Mars a long time ago and tried to take it over, but Rasputin froze them beneath the Hellas Basin where they remained until the Traveler awakened at the end of the Red War

these Hive being from Nokris' brood

then later on Mars would disappear from the Sol System along with 3 other worlds and moons

only for it to reappear a while later where we find its surface scarred with time rifts, a Pyramid relic, and Savathun's ship

[trim grotto]

classic

[dim minnow]

no one really had full dominion over Mars since the Collapse

the Cabal were pretty close though

they just had to deal with a group of Vex who were bad at their job

at least until we woke rasputin up and later cleared their exclusion zone

there's a pretty good lore tab describing how Rasputin completely obliterated a battlefied full of Vex and Cabal

[flat jolt]

Rip rasputin, he will be missed.

[dim minnow]

I wish the D1 story did a better job showing the effects of some of the moments of its campagin

[flat jolt]

Funny how the fallen have caused so much damage.

[dim minnow]

remnants of House Wolves tried to regroup on mars briefly, they made some progress

but that did not last long

[errant tapir]

Season is introduced since forsaken?

Curse of Osiris is curse of orisis?

There is no season curse of Osiris are there?

[trim grotto]

Yes, though the older content was retroactively dubbed to be the original Seasons.

[errant tapir]

Hmph

Where does season start?,

I looked season of the forge it was season 5

What is season 1?

[trim grotto]

The Red War. It was, as stated earlier, retroactively dubbed to be one of the original Seasons.

[errant tapir]

I don't know what retroactively means

I searched it on Google and it doesn't make sense

[trim grotto]

we decided to call this thing something else

they weren't seasons because seasons didn't exist
but then they made seasons
so they called the old stuff seasons

https://www.shacknews.com/article/119428/all-seasons-and-release-date-order-destiny-2

[errant tapir]

That is very confusing

[trim grotto]

is it

[errant tapir]

Yes

[trim grotto]

they didn't introduce seasons until forsaken
so they just renamed the old stuff to seasons

that's it

[errant tapir]

Why not start from season of the forge as season 1?

Why start all the way back?

[trim grotto]

i'll go ask my roommate, John Bungie, for you

[errant tapir]

Then what is there to differentiate between actual campaign and filler

[trim grotto]

you are overthinking it

[errant tapir]

What is the circle device we retrieved for ada in season of the forge?

And dul incaru is savathun's daughter?

How the hell did she reproduce?

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure why that's a question. Hive are biological beings.

[trim grotto]

That would be the Obsidian Accelerator, if you're speaking about what I think you are. Ada-1's Exobody was a walking forge with the ability to enhance equipment. The Obsidian Accelerator was key to this.

[errant tapir]

WHAT

How does that work?

She can simply touch the weapons with her fingers and say it has been upgraded?

[trim grotto]

She's a machine, not a wizard.

We didn't get a ton of in depth information, but the Black Armory worked together with Clovis Bray to produce the Exobody

Years ago, it was just an idea. Now, it's a reality. Seeing the Exo discover her ability was… well, thrilling. It was nice to feel something other than dread for a few minutes. And a few minutes was about all we got.```
It isn't entirely clear how it functioned, but it was meant to be very portable

Golden Age technology sure was something

[errant tapir]

Okay

[uneven mulch]

yall can exos die of old age?

and can they grow beards?

[trim grotto]

No and no.

Exo are functionally immortal if upkept correctly

And... no, they're robots

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

you realise they're just data copies of a mind inside a mechanical body right @uneven mulch?

[uneven mulch]

ah

im just acoustic mb

🙏

can human and awoken guardians grow beards?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[uneven mulch]

if they get rezzed for the first time when they had beards then shaved would they get the beard back when rezzed

[trim grotto]

I don't believe we've had a scenario of that, but I assume not.

[errant tapir]

That is funny

[uneven mulch]

have yall imagined if zavala had long blonde hair?

also is it just me or is zavala's generation of vanguard leaders all bald

zavala ikora and cayde

[trim grotto]

Ikora isn't bald.

[uneven mulch]

ikora isnt??

[trim grotto]

She shaves.

[uneven mulch]

a

[trim grotto]

also

[trim grotto]

Zavala concept art

[uneven mulch]

NO WAY

HAIR ZAVALA IS SO CURSED

[uneven mulch]

drifter: oh shit i messed up my beard. cant have my brothers seeing me like this. lemme get my shotgun

[slim girder]

Y'all think the threat for codename apollo will be something similar to the witness? Or is it going to start off with something threatening but not end of the universe level threatening.

My guess is it'll be something with a tie to the winnower or something linked to the eldritch force that's supposedly going to come up in Heresy

[blazing wasp]

Doubtful, the witness was kinda teased for years with so much history displaying it's overwhelming dominance and power

Something comparable would either have to emerge spontaneously or be rushed into the story

[slim girder]

The black heart was the first true threat we faced. And at the time we didn't know that it had any relation to the witness so maybe we'll get something similar this time.
Like a spec of the winnowers influence maybe?

[blazing wasp]

It's unlikely the winnower is a threat, let alone antagonistic

But something like a remnant of the black fleet? Or an echo in the wrong hands

Maybe both

[slim girder]

Right. I don't think it's truly evil or anything but I wouldn't put it past it to have some cruel nature as it does want to see things prove their right to survive.

[blazing wasp]

No I mean

They don't really act

They're so immutably confident that they are inevitable

That they won't do anything, because it's irrelevant, it changes nothing in their eyes

If anything the winnower acting means we misunderstood them or they're a hypocrite

[slim girder]

They did say they'd be seeing us. And bungie have talked about eldritch power that shapes the universe opening doors and mysteries. On top of that we just got a new book from bungie penumbra. Again I don't think the winnower is completely evil or anything but i could definitely see it tipping the scales to give us threats to face as that's what the witness was in the first place. "The first knife in its hand" whose to say another being isn't trying to enact some other vision.

[blazing wasp]

While those are fair points, 3 issues are at hand

A: unconfirmed is this is actually the winnower (I do not care what byf has said, it's not confirmed)
B: the witness has probably had more lies or deceit in its dialogue directed at us than not, probably 70:30
C: when I mean the winnower is confident I mean they're confident
"My viewpoint is a immutable factor of the Universe" confident

Think of point C like this

A boxing match is occurring, you're confident contender A wins

Now you're really goddamn confident, you'd bet literally anything, you're not only confident you know they'll win, literally nothing can change that

You could sabotage contender B and give contender A a win, but why would you do that, if the point isn't that contender A wins, but the point is that contender A winning is inevitable, immutable, the absolute truth of the Universe

Does it show confidence if you personally cause contender A to win? Or is that doubt?

I'm not saying you're saying the winnower will be an antagonist, fyi, just that I think it'll do absolutely shitfuck

[slim girder]

I'd say it's not confidence more just a love of the game. The flower game to be specific. The winnower at least from what we've heard from them talks in a very "Chillax" way like they don't care if they're right or wrong but they just enjoy the game and treating the universe like a habitat. It doesn't doubt itself but wants to see what different species do because it likes to.
Now i could be completely wrong and maybe the winnower will just stand by and do nothing but at least to me given what we know I think it'll at least make itself known or something will come along that is linked to it. That could be anything from a cult/faction to another other worldly being like oryx or the witness.

[blazing wasp]

Let me perhaps rephrase: the winnower actually has something to gain, they actually have a stake in this

It's an argument, interfering can risk the winnower losing the argument

It's in the winnowers best interest to do little to nothing

Or the winnower loses the argument that surrounds the nature for their very existence.

(assuming unveiling is correct here)

But something like a cult serving the winnower without the winnower really doing much

I could see that actually, yeah

[slim girder]

Not so much serving directly but more just living by a tenant or creed that just so happens to coincide with the winnowers belief. Think like if a bunch of humans decided to live by sword logic

Based on the concept art for Apollo the markings and clothing displayed tells me that this new place seems to have some kind of belief system that the inhabitants follow with rituals as well.

[flat jolt]

Is there no staff of bungie in this discord channel?

[blazing wasp]

There is, no they probably won't answer your questions

[jagged badge]

Technically dmg is here, but not in an official capacity, and he’s expressed he’s not here for any kinda Q&A or anything

Why do you ask?

[ember storm]

Hello yes it is me John bungie

I am the reason that crow got a new haircut and Maya is crashing out over her lesbian divorce, ama

[blazing wasp]

Do you wear wigs

[ember storm]

What’s a wig

Is that a type of sports car

[jagged badge]

Have you worn wigs?

[ember storm]

Have you

[jagged badge]

Will you wear wigs?

[ember storm]

Will you

[jagged badge]

When will you wear wigs?

[ember storm]

Release will be determined at a later date

[sweet locust]

Is dragonfly regalia an actual thing in the lore or is it just the name of an armor set, because collections list it as a faction.

I assume it has something to do with the last city.

[clear valve]

I just finished the final shape campaign and all I have to say is what the hell is going in? Somehow statues are part of the witness? What is he? I have so many questions and I idea what's going on. Could someone explain the campaign lore of witch queen, lightfall, and final shape as simply as possible?

[trim grotto]

Well first question is, have you done WQ and LF?

[clear valve]

yes

[trim grotto]

Alright.
In Witch Queen, Mars returns. It was previously stolen by the Black Fleet of the Witness, along with Io, Titan, and Mercury. We go there, enter Savathûn's Throne World via the big old ship, find out the Hive have the Light now via Ghosts, and beat up Savathûn a bit because she tried to steal the Traveler.

We also learned a little bit about the entity within the Darkness. A corruptive force, a being within. The Witness, as it turns out, was the being that commanded the Pyramids, the Black Fleet.
It was what caused the Collapse of the Golden Age. What caused the Whirlwind of the Eliksni. What first created the Hive. What destroyed countless civilisations and ended countless species over millennia.
Nearly every tragedy in Destiny can, somewhere down the chain, be tied to the Witness.

Then, the Raid. We find Rhulk, the first Disciple of the Witness, beat him up a bit too.

[trim grotto]

With Lightfall, after some preamble, both we and the Witness realise something is on Neptune.
Neomuna aside, it turns out that was the Veil - in a way, it is like the Darkness's equivalent of the Traveler. With it, the Witness was able to cut its way into the Traveler.
Shortly after that event, while we were finding a way inside, we encountered a creature called Ahsa, who told us of the Witness's origins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI

In Final Shape, we finally manage to enter the Pale Heart of the Traveler. We fight the Witness in this realm of memory made manifest. We discover the whispering statues of the Witness we've been dealing with for years are actually of the Witness's mind - dissenting voices of the Witness who the Witness punishes with this form, but still uses as a tool.

Only in the campaign has its grip weakened enough, as it wrangles the Traveler, for the statues to speak out to us.

[slim girder]

Everytime I do this strike I can't help but wonder if the wine cabal drink tastes nice. This purple candy stuff that's made from nessus minerals looks tasty

Also weird that a planets minerals could be used as an ingredient. That's like how we put gold or diamonds in some alcohols.

[uneven mulch]

cayde uses lucky pants right?

[uneven mulch]

edible gold yum

[blazing wasp]

He does not, but its heavily implied he did

[uneven mulch]

ah

is it possible to make a cayde build

are there the ornaments for it

[blazing wasp]

i mean sure, we know most of what he prefers to use.

[uneven mulch]

armor ornaments

[trim grotto]

Aah... yes and no? You can get his cloak, but Cayde's exact armour isn't available.

There are folks who have done similar though

[uneven mulch]

ah damn it

[trim grotto]

As for this... sort of. There's Ace of Spades of course, but no real Exotic armour choice, nor did we know much of his other preferred specific weaponry. However, we do know that he preferred Solar, and has been seen using Tripmines and Incendiary Grenades, as well as various Throwing Knives. Golden Gun was his main thing, but one could argue he's used something akin to Blade Barrage.

[errant tapir]

Day 25 of asking fun facts lore

[uneven mulch]

wait lemme make a dim loadout for this

[uneven mulch]

https://dim.gg/mgrtfuy/cayde-build-PH

dont have ace of spades yet

but eh

[sick yew]

I mean lucky pants are kinda his thing no?

Or at least he used them at one point to beat Shaxx

[errant tapir]

Who is sagira?

[sick yew]

Osiris' ghost

[errant tapir]

What is the relic did we use to read darkness traversal spots?

[sick yew]

Wha?

Darknless traversal spots?

You mean the deepsight shit in Witch Queen?

[errant tapir]

Yes

Something in witch queen campaign

Ikora mentioned a relic

[sick yew]

Thats two different things

The "Relic" is what we use to craft the first ever Glaive

We found it just sitting in Savathuns ship during the first mission

Deepsight isnt connected to that its just an ability we kinda learn to use throughout the campaign

[errant tapir]

Relic that has darkness abilities ikora said

[sick yew]

Basically after obtaining the light Savathun used that to reshape her throne world but some remnants of how it used to look still remain and we use a type of darkness ability to "reveal" that

Thats Deepsight

[jagged badge]

Deepsight is absolutely connected to it

[sick yew]

Fr?

We got that shit from the glaive?

[jagged badge]

That’s why when you’re collecting weapon patterns, they drop with Deepsight Resonance

[sick yew]

But we didnt gain the ability to use deepsight from the Enigma relic

[jagged badge]

The idea is the relic reconstructs the gun from its memory or something like that

[jagged badge]

We didn’t consciously realise it at first. But we make the connection. Ikora uses the Relic to look into the memory of the worm familiar too

[sick yew]

Ok wait are we talking about the same relic rn

You mean the shit on Mars where we also shape our guns

Im talking about the piece that we later turn into Enigma

[jagged badge]

That wasn’t called “the Relic”

We took that to the Relic

To shape it based on its memory

[sick yew]

@errant tapir so did you mean the relic as in the place where we go and shape our guns on Mars or did you mean the little piece of glaive we find during the opening campaign

[errant tapir]

I don't know that either

It was ikora dialogue

When we trying to get another quest

[sick yew]

Then it probably refers to the place

In which case yeah what Tempest said

[errant tapir]

I am approaching the pyramid in europa

Similar to VotD structure

[sick yew]

Youre doing the WQ campaign rn ye?

[errant tapir]

Yes

[sick yew]

I see I see

[sick yew]

Thats because in Vow youre also in a Pyramid ship

Just one thats mostly burried

[errant tapir]

Why was sagira shell in the savathun's throne world at first?

[sick yew]

Savathun took it right as she took over Osiris prob

[errant tapir]

I'm doing the mirror

I talked to the veiled statue at the pyramid before

[trim grotto]

As Uke said - he has used them, but we haven't seen him use them

[errant tapir]

Wait

In WQ campaign, savathun hasn't received immaru?

Ikora mention she died

[sick yew]

No she has

Savathun was resurrected pretty much right after she got freed from her crystal prison in the prior season

And WQ starts not long after that

We just didnt know that for most of the campaign

[errant tapir]

Oh...

The mirror takes place in birthplace of veil

@sick yewthis thing

[trim grotto]

Deepsight.

[sick yew]

Thats a deepsight node yes

They're all over the throne world for the reasons I detailed earlier

[uneven mulch]

did savathun lose her memories?

[trim grotto]

She did, but she had contingency plans for that.

[errant tapir]

i actually felt happy for her for the first time

that she wants to protect traveller

turns out SHE HAD ME IN THE FUCKEN FIRST HALF

Bitch wanna seal the traveller away

[ember storm]

She wants to protect the thing that would let her do whatever she wanted, not exactly altruistic

[fair trout]

So what do we think the next expansion’s story will be?

Here’s a tin foil hat theory

I think we are entering inside the veil

With the universe’s biggest threat gone, we are free to explore and do things

Maybe it’s time to see if the veil can be entered like the traveler?

I propose the idea that we will be entering inside the veil. Not only are there floating Neomuna like devices we see in the concept art teasers, but the world itself looks very alien yet there are man made objects like the ship

The colors are trippy like the veil

Darkness involves memory so… what if we are entering the veil?

[ember storm]

Pale Heart is the combination of the traveler and the veil

It is specifically built on the memories of the witness and the first few individuals who entered it

[fair trout]

Darkness from the veil entered into the traveler leading to physical locations being constructed inside the traveler, but it absolutely isn’t a combination of the two

[fair trout]

To add on to this theory further

There were individuals who suffered brain death after experiences with the veil… what if their consciousness resides inside the veil?

[ember storm]

They were exos and just had their mind wiped

It didn’t gel well with alkahest

[slim girder]

While it does definitely look like the veil has an "entrance" it's not like the pale heart. The neomuni needed to use special devices to even interact with it and at least at the start that ended up killing them anyway. As of now the closest to "entering the veil" is the cloudark

[ember storm]

I don’t really think the thing after the Light and Dark saga ends would be immediately interacting with the biggest primordial source of darkness in the universe

[slim girder]

My theory is that during heresy, probably near the end the echo we find if it even is an echo will point us somewhere. There's also a theory that because of bungie asking what if we were the navigators that we'd use the dreadnaught to travel.

[lost abyss]

Imagine being Xivu, and trying to claim ownership of your late brother's prized flagship, and those same little shits responsible for it's vacancy, decided they wanted to play Captain on it

[heady monolith]

she wanted to protect it, but for her own motives

[acoustic geyser]

how u doing guys could someone give me a short summarie bout whats happening in the lore after the beyond light dlc?

[tough badge]

y does saint host trials of "osiris"?

any lore behind it?

[ember storm]

It was started by the cult of osiris to get guardians to fight for their own ends

After the cult was killed/disbanded, Saint started it back up in a more official capacity for the sake of giving guardians the opportunity to really sharpen their skills against each other

[dim minnow]

Vance started the trials as a way to study the Lighthouses on Mercury

after his research was done, he ended the trials until Osiris decided to start them back up again with Saint as its host

[slim girder]

What would you like to know? There's quite a lot that happens after that point

[acoustic geyser]

mainly what every dlc is about after that one

im currently doing the savathun one but i feel like i missed smth idk

[trim grotto]

Dova made a summary and it is currently pinned. Try that.
The short need to know for WQ is that Savathun possessed Osiris, but freed him in exchange for the removal of her Worm Parasite. Shortly after that, Witch Queen launched, with the return of Mars, one of the planets that was stolen by the Black Fleet just as Beyond Light launched.

[errant tapir]

Does the traveller has a mind of its own?

[trim grotto]

It is a sentient being.

[errant tapir]

FUCK

[trim grotto]

Hm?

[errant tapir]

We made savathun remember

[trim grotto]

Ah, yes. Yes, we did.

[errant tapir]

Cataclysmic mistake

HUGE mistake

[errant tapir]

I always wondered why the hell is there even a shadow of her in the background

Like seriously watching

Turns out it was her

[trim grotto]

It is her Throne World, after all. It is analogous to being within her own mind.

[errant tapir]

Let me guess for the next step

We talked to zavala

Make a plan to confront savathun

Execute

Goes horribly wrong

We let her escape?

[trim grotto]

no comment

[fresh zephyr]

Have the vex erased anyone outside of the Vault of Glass from existence?

[trim grotto]

The power of the Vault of Glass is as unique as it is confined.

[fresh zephyr]

so they cant erase people on the battlefield

[trim grotto]

No. Thankfully.

[fresh zephyr]

but they are still deadly

Are vex units deadly due to their teleportation or their prediction of enemies?

[trim grotto]

Both. And that they're unending. And that their danger doesn't end when a chassis is destroyed - Vex memetics can worm their way into your mind, or the Radiolarian Fluid can convert your flesh.

[fresh zephyr]

I see

also

since the torch hammer is described as causing exotic particle decay, does that mean things like the aeon maul and the warp lance most likely do the same since they are all purple?

[uneven mulch]

what happens when a guardian drinks vex milk?

do they get rezzed?

[fresh zephyr]

they become vex

[trim grotto]

It is possible, yes. But I couldn't say for sure.

[fresh zephyr]

who knows as the warp lance is considered a more heavier weapon than the torch hammer

[trim grotto]

They would die. Their Ghost may be able to rez them, but I wouldn't exactly recommend it. Kabr the Legionless died to this, and Asher Mir - though he was experimented on and injected rather than having it ingested - was unable to cure it, as his Ghost was also experimented on.

[fresh zephyr]

the slap rifle in destinypedia is said to have superheated matter as it's ammunition type

is that to be taken with a grain of salt

[eager trout]

What exactly is the encyclopædia arcana mentioned in the MIDA Minitool text? What kind of information does that kind of thing hold?

[trim grotto]

Always.

The terminal's flexibility is impressive. In non-combat conditions, the Slap Rifle seems like it might serve as a viable field transmitter, construction tool, navigational beacon, network repeater, or any of a number of other utility functions.```
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/slap-rifle
Sometimes, the original source is best.

[trim grotto]

The MIDA Mini-Tool and Multi-Tool are not from Destiny's universe, but Marathon's.

What it actually contains isn't well known

[fresh zephyr]

Is it most definite that the torch hammer uses exotic matter as it's ammunition type since its description says it causes exotic particle decay?

[eager trout]

Yeah, but I just want to know if "encyclopædia arcana" is a real life term for a certain type of encyclopedia.

[trim grotto]

Not a real life one, no. It is, however, used in various fantasy settings.

[trim grotto]

I'm afraid this level of specificity is a bit outside of my wheelhouse. Perhaps if @rose mauve is free at some point, he may be willing to indulge.
(Hi Lettuce!)

[fresh zephyr]

I see

it says it fires strange matter

[eager trout]

And what is it used for?

[eager trout]

Strange matter? The thing so stable it turns everything into itself?

Wait, don't Vex turn everything they touch into Vex?

[fresh zephyr]

Strange matter could just mean it fires matter we dont understand

[fresh zephyr]

only the milk

[trim grotto]

Depends on the setting. Book of magic, or just a very detailed encyclopaedia of the world. In this case, I expect it is something of the latter.

[eager trout]

So technically there's Guardians going around with an encyclopaedia that describes a whole different world

[trim grotto]

If those systems actually work anymore.

I doubt it does, as Lord Shaxx can't even figure out what MIDA stands for from the data banks.

Guerilla war suits these versatile weapons. But Rahool insists his records never hinted at a rebel group named MIDA. According to the rifle's cached messages, MIDA's brief reign killed a full ten percent of the Martian people.```
This is about the extent of what we got from it.

[fresh zephyr]

during the Vex's prior existence, was everything the vault of glass?

[trim grotto]

I assume you refer to Unveiling.
Unveiling was a metaphor. There was no universe before ours, Unveiling says so itself.

And regardless, it couldn't be, as the Vault of Glass has ties to the Black Heart - a paracausal entity.

[fresh zephyr]

So before there was nothingness

and in that nothingness was the vex?

[trim grotto]

No. Do not look too deep at Unveiling. The Vex evolved, like any species.

If we were to take Unveiling seriously, they were the pattern that logically would win each time a flower game were played. This was like a timeless endless "what if" scenario, where every answer and ending was the same. A mathematical constant.
Going by Unveiling's creationism story, this Pattern took form when the universe took form. It became microscopic life, and eventually evolved into the Vex we know today.

If you want to learn more of the Vex in a more grounded setting, try Clovis Bray's Logbook, parts 1 and 2.

[eager trout]

To be fair, we don't know if it means anything. And it's likely the weapon does have that information, but it's locked.

Question: is it paracasual or paracausal?

[trim grotto]

MIDA was a political terrorist group that operated on Mars. Whatever it does stand for, it was a political regime, and the M would have stood for Mars.

[trim grotto]

Paracausal, as opposed to causal. Causal essentially meaning physics.

[eager trout]

Oh

I thought it was paracasual this whole time and got confused when it said paracausal in Spanish

[fresh zephyr]

So when the vex make a universe in their image, is that when everything i slike the vault of glass to where they can just erase anything that isnt them anywhere

[trim grotto]

The Vex are not burdened by time. They need no Vault of Glass if left unhindered. The Convergence of the universe. All is simulated, all is Vex. Converted, simulated, built, known, controlled. It is as they are, or it is within their control.

But Darkness is not merely absence of Light. Darkness is an entity unto itself. Put simply, Darkness is not Nothing.

But the Vex? The Vex seek neither Light nor Darkness. They seek Convergence, the reduction of all life to its simplest, most meaningless form. An entelechy of zeros and ones.

"Evil" is a word for sentimentalists and fools. But, in the ontology of the sentimental, the Vex are more deserving of the term than the Hive.

Given a choice between Darkness and Convergence, I would choose Darkness. It is a logical choice.

Yet for this they banish me.```

The Vault of Glass would certainly speed things along if they had that power on hand anywhere, but their Convergence does not hinge on it.

[errant tapir]

Can the traveller took away the light that was given?

Where did savathun's ghost go?

[trim grotto]

At what point in the campaign are you at?

[errant tapir]

I already done it just now

[trim grotto]

If you're at the end... ||Immaru simply fled. We sequestered Savathûn's body, so that she could not be resurrected. We eventually allowed Immaru to resurrect her, as we needed her aid to enter the Pale Heart, but that was quite some time later.||
And, yes and no. The Traveler can take away Light that was given, but won't. It values free will and a second chance more than anything else. The Hive may be abusing their second chance, but that is their right, their choice, their freedom.

[errant tapir]

Ohh

I've unlocked osteo striga

And ikora gave me parasite quest

Approaching dying worm

[hollow hinge]

Also helps that the Guardians are simply better at it than the Hive so if it goes too far, we'll step in to figuratively and literally crush them

[trim grotto]

We have been doing it for a little longer than they have, certainly.

[trim grotto]

Ah yes
That little gremlin of a creature

Horrible thing

[fresh zephyr]

I see now

[eager trout]

Convergence as the third subclass category?

[trim grotto]

my favourite subclass

being dead and reduced to a simulation by an unfeeling god entity

[ember storm]

Vex don’t want to rule anything, they just want to be the only thing left in every inch of the universe

Whether they have to kill you or you get converted along the way, it really makes no difference to them

They’ll simply go into their simulations and create a copy of you for the sake of study later on regardless

They won’t have any goals or ambitions once they convert the universe, that’s not how they think

They operate more like a virus than anything else

[trim grotto]

how goes the Parasite quest

[errant tapir]

Itsy bitsy

Need kill 100 scorns

I'm already burnout by speed running campaign

Exhausted

[trim grotto]

There's no rush. Though, 100 isn't that many.

[slim girder]

Just got to that 1 lost sector in the throne world

In the quangmire

[errant tapir]

Doing wellspring just to enjoy new contect

Content*

[slim girder]

That's also an option. I like wellspring

[errant tapir]

Ohh nice

I like wellspring attack

@trim grotto I'll keep u posted

Now I'm lying down to regain energy

[errant tapir]

Is Sundance there when Cayde was killed?

[oak bough]

what death

[errant tapir]

Oh no

Who's going to tell him?

[slim girder]

Yes. Have you seen the cutscene where cayde made his last stand?

[errant tapir]

Mael sent me long time ago

But I'm not ready to open it yet

[slim girder]

Watch it. It'll answer your question

Also one of the best fights in Destiny

Cayde can throw down

[trim grotto]

If Sundance wasn't there, he wouldn't have been killed.

Or rather, if she survived, he would have been revived.

...actually, no. No, that's not true in this specific scenario.

Anyway yes she was there

[errant tapir]

Yeah the yt video I watched

If u said Sundance wasn't there

Then Cayde is dead too

He was crushed by a falling roof/floor

@trim grotto can u share me a yt video where we hunt down uldren sov pls?

I wanna see that Bastard suffer

Mael

You are not Byf

Are you?

[dim minnow]

funny enough Mael's voice is actually similar

this is Mael reciting the Nezarec's Sin lore tab

[errant tapir]

Oh nice

Why was mara imprisoned?

[trim grotto]

She wasn't.

At the time of Forsaken, she was dead. Killed during the Battle of Saturn by Oryx, the Taken King.

Uldren Sov was being manipulated by Riven of a Thousand Voices, the Taken Ahamkara.

[willow dagger]

Wha- how did she come back? Also genuinely wondering why you don’t do voice acting or something professional? Your voice is so cool!

[trim grotto]

The Shattered Throne is not named so without reason. With the aid of Riven (before she was Taken), Queen Mara Sov crafted a Throne World - the only known one not born of Sword Logic. Eleusinia. Now known as the Shattered Throne, after Oryx rampaged through it.

With that, she eventually escaped and was reborn, with Oryx's stolen strength after we slew him.

[dim minnow]

part of Oryx's stolen strength

if I recall correctly, Savathun got a good chunk of it as well since she was involved

[errant tapir]

I don't follow

Can u make a simpler easier to understand how did Mara sov got resurrected?

[dim minnow]

Oryx was very powerful and by virtue of Sword Logic, whoever slew him had the right to claim his Throne

[trim grotto]

If dead but have throne world, you come back to life in throne world

only die for good if killed in throne world

[errant tapir]

Ooooo

Throne world?

What is throne world?

[trim grotto]

You just did an entire campaign in one

[dim minnow]

however, we, the Guardians, chose not to claim Oryx's throne which allowed others who had a role in his death to claim the power left behind

[errant tapir]

I did

[dim minnow]

they are domains within the Ascendant Plane that are claimed by powerful beings

[trim grotto]

Ascendant Hive of sufficient enough strength form a pocket of reality within the Ascendant Plane. It is bound to their power, shaped for and by their mind.

[dim minnow]

these domains are shaped and connected to the very will of the one who controls it

[trim grotto]

Within it, they are powerful. If they die outside of it, they return there to be reborn.

They may only die for good inside the Throne World.

[errant tapir]

God dang it

[dim minnow]

Savathun, of course, isn't really bound to that last part anymore since she is a Lightbearer

[errant tapir]

I was about to say that dovadah

[errant tapir]

"claim his throne" as in throne world?

[trim grotto]

And his position as the Taken King.

[dim minnow]

not just Throne world, the power and title that comes with it

[errant tapir]

Wait

[dim minnow]

we had the chance, but we refused it

[errant tapir]

How did Mara die again?

[dim minnow]

Toland wasn;t very happy about it

[errant tapir]

She got killed vs oryx?

[dim minnow]

Domain Expansion

[trim grotto]

Dova could you get the video

[errant tapir]

Who is Toland?

[trim grotto]

It'll be easier to show than explain

[errant tapir]

Tom Holland?

YES SHOW

[dim minnow]

mad warlock obsessed with the Hive nd Sword Logic

[trim grotto]

Toland, the Shattered. One of the members of Eris Morn's doomed fireteam who delved into the Hellmouth. He was one of the only survivors, because he betrayed Eris and the others.

He is the wisp you may see within the Shattered Throne, or around the Moon.

[errant tapir]

The only time I visited shattered throne was for wish ender

[dim minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6RIsEaUi7k

[willow dagger]

Lore story time with Mael

[errant tapir]

Oooo

White and red is techeun I presume

[trim grotto]

Correct.

[errant tapir]

Yay

Me smart

WOW

MARA CAN CREATE MISSILES FROM THIN AIR?

Huh

[trim grotto]

No. Those were the Harbingers.

[errant tapir]

SHES A WITCH

[trim grotto]

Yes, she is.

[errant tapir]

What are harbingers?

[trim grotto]

Techeuns are also known as Tech Witches

[trim grotto]

Creatures. Beings.

[dim minnow]

powerful entities the Awoken claimed from an unknown war I think

Mara Sov and the Techeuns possess powerful psychic and ontological powers

[errant tapir]

Wait wait wait

Hold on wait a minute

Something ain't right

2 questions

1. We see in the video that oryx launches a killing wave yes? In that instance mara sov died? Then how come she can slew oryx if she's dead???

2. Did uldren sov die in that moment too? He looked like he shat his pants

[trim grotto]

She didn't. We did.

No.

[dim minnow]

it's not that she killed him, it's that she had a part to play in his demise

she sacrificed her fleet to keep him in the rings of Saturn long enough for us to kill him

Uldren survived, he crashed on Mars

[errant tapir]

Did the awoken and us plan that?

We are allied to awoken once?

[dim minnow]

Mara colluded with Eris Morn and Osiris in order to prepare for Oryx

[trim grotto]

Mara did. Very very few knew her full plan, but the Awoken trusted her with their lives.

Eris Morn was one of the few who knew.

[errant tapir]

Woah

[dim minnow]

we were kind of allies with the Awoken, but it wasn't a full alliance

[errant tapir]

@dim minnow can u fetch me a video on when we kill oryx and transfer his power to mara sov?

[dim minnow]

not exactly something that's un the video

the second part

we kill Oryx in the King's Fall raid

[errant tapir]

[dim minnow]

Mara get part of Oryx's power off screen

[trim grotto]

We didn't even know she claimed the power. It was a secret.

[errant tapir]

Oh off screen huh

How about we turned down oryx power?

Is there a video to it?

[trim grotto]

Yes, because she is a queen of secrets. Mara Sov's machinations are second only to the Witch Queen herself.

No, because we just killed Oryx and left. Toland got real mad at us though.

[errant tapir]

Is there a video on the post king's fall raid

That mara is revived?

Or something?

[trim grotto]

Lore tabs, Varo.

Gotta read.

[errant tapir]

Noooooo

[trim grotto]

Mara was revealed to still be alive in the... Forsaken Dreaming City intro

[errant tapir]

I'm lazy to read

[trim grotto]

The one you probably have done already

[errant tapir]

I never played forsaken mael

I SHOULD'VE BEEN THERE THO

[trim grotto]

Because the quest is still in game as a Dreaming City intro

[errant tapir]

Cayde died....

[errant tapir]

Which quest?

I never touched dreaming city outside wish ender

[trim grotto]

It was accessible from the Dreaming City map, last I checked. One time mission.

[errant tapir]

Ohhh

King's fall is before forsaken ya?

[trim grotto]

KIng's Fall was D1, Varo

[errant tapir]

GOD DAMN

I'm still confused

Uldren sov was looking for his sister right?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[errant tapir]

Isn't his sister already alive in forsaken?

[trim grotto]

That was revealed after the campaign.

The Dreaming City was post campaign content

[errant tapir]

The campaign ends when we kill Uldren?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[errant tapir]

Damn

I kinda feel bad for uldren now

He is trying to revive his sister yes?

Although his sister was already revived

[trim grotto]

He didn't believe she was dead. He was psychologically insane at that point, and committing genocide on the Awoken people along with Fikrul and the Scorned Barons.

Slaughtering the House of Kings, raiding settlements, torching the Vestian Outpost

He was mad.

[errant tapir]

Why?

Because his sister is dead?

[trim grotto]

Mara's death compounded with his damaged psyche from an adventure into the Black Garden, which he was driven to by his... poor relationship with his sister. He was desperate for her approval.

[errant tapir]

Does it had something to do with ahamkara corrupted him?

Like he was corrupted by the black neck raising into his pupils

[trim grotto]

Riven began worming her way into his head when he accidentally Wished to revive Fikrul. She began whispering to him in Mara's voice since then. "Free me, oh brother mine."

Beware that phrase, Varo.

Oh ___ mine is a calling card of the Ahamkara.

[errant tapir]

Oh yeah I noticed

Back when....

Fuck I forgot

There is a past old event

6 man activity we go into the vault of a cabal king

[trim grotto]

...the Leviathan Raid? On Emperor Calus's ship?

[errant tapir]

I watched some yt videos

Mentioned I think ahamkara corrupted a creature

I forgot what it was

Maybe it was the cabal king

The... Former witness underling

[trim grotto]

Cabal don't have kings. There is Emperor Calus or Dominus Ghaul.

[errant tapir]

Oh calus

When I was digging the past event

Like season of forge

I got some recommendation videos

I watched that and saw yt comment

He said "Oh mine" that is foreshadowing that he has been corrupted

[trim grotto]

It wasn't.

He just really wanted to enact the Anthem Anatheme.

[errant tapir]

[trim grotto]

Thinks he's more important than he really is.

[errant tapir]

Season of opulence

[trim grotto]

I think I can live without accepting joanoman8600's pre-release theory into account

Calus had an Ahamkara bone, but he was so apathetic he couldn't even get anything from it. The man wasn't corrupted, just full of himself.

[errant tapir]

@trim grotto how does oryx slew power work?

Does everyone that contribute to oryx death get a piece of oryx power?

Like 100 people all get throne world?

How does that work?

[trim grotto]

Mara orchestrated the event. When we abandoned the power, she claimed it.

[errant tapir]

@trim grotto can u link me the Ishtar collective about mara's resurrection?

My brain still is confused

How the fuck she is dead at that time can confirm the calling of oryx to take his power

It just blew my mind

Or did they meet in hell and chat for a sec?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/reverie-dawn-suit-warlock
Well, there's this, for starters

[errant tapir]

What is sword logic anyway?

[dim minnow]

kill something, you get stronger

[trim grotto]

The simple answer is, "kill and grow more powerful"

[dim minnow]

in simplest terms

[trim grotto]

But there is more to it than that

[dim minnow]

there's a whole philosophy behind it

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tyrannocide-v

This is the other half of Mara, her death, and the claiming of the power

[errant tapir]

Is there a video showing how the awoken is born?

[trim grotto]

There's a rather dense lorebook.

[errant tapir]

I've seen it

I don't understand one bit

On how did a rabbit embryo create a whole entire species

[trim grotto]

What?

[errant tapir]

Eris told me that from the start

Fuck

A rabbit embryo

[trim grotto]

The rabbit embryo wasn't really an important part. Just a bit of a meme.

[slim girder]

No he was shot by uldren. That bit was only his way of getting to the bottom quickly.

[errant tapir]

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-marasenna

[errant tapir]

Sundance did the bubble animation

Isn't that the one where we get revived?

[trim grotto]

If you want videos detailing the lore, perhaps try MyNameIsByf. He has videos in about every subject. If you want the actual lore itself, the link is above.

[errant tapir]

Sigh

Ah shit

Here we go again

[slim girder]

Yes but that wasn't caydes actual death. If you watch the cutscene you will see how he and Sundance actually died.

[errant tapir]

I know I know

But Mael said that if Sundance wasn't there

I just assume that Sundance is long long far away from cayde

That he'd be dead anyway

Because he was previously crushed by a rubble

[trim grotto]

Ignore that I said that
I meant more that there was a Devourer bullet involved

[errant tapir]

I know that

I watched the cutscene

[uneven mulch]

then why did savathun just get reborn inside her throne world? why immaru?

[trim grotto]

Her Worm was removed and so was her connection powering her Throne World. It only stays intact due to the Wellspring.
Immaru is why she is alive, as a Lightbearer.

[uneven mulch]

why did she want worm to go bye byeM

and whats wellspring

[trim grotto]

Do the Witch Queen post campaign and find out

There's a whole activity for it

[uneven mulch]

oh

how do I access it?

[trim grotto]

The Worm Hunger is exponential. The more you kill, the stronger you get, but the deeper the Worm Hunger grows. If you cannot feed it, it will consume you instead. It is a curse, an inevitable doom, no matter how long you delay it.

[trim grotto]

Keep doing the post campaign and when it is available, launch it from the Throne World map. Check in with Fynch every now and then.

The Wellspring is a massive source of Light. It keeps the Throne World intact.

[errant tapir]

How is the light harvested?

[uneven mulch]

oh

[trim grotto]

Dead Guardians.

[errant tapir]

Dead guardians?

[uneven mulch]

so savathun wanted to use the worm but didnt want the worm to use her

sounds like my ex

[errant tapir]

Yooooo

Chilll

[uneven mulch]

jk i dont have an ex

but my friend does

and she's just like that

[errant tapir]

What is the title kell?

[trim grotto]

A Kell is a leader of an Eliksni House.

Misraaks is the Kell, the leader, of House Light.

Eramis of House Salvation.

[errant tapir]

A house is like a faction?

[trim grotto]

They are these days. In the old days of Riis, they were different parts of the Eliksni society. House of Wolves used to be known as the... House of Gentle Weavers, I believe.

[errant tapir]

Noice

Is there any instance where Guardian A with Ghost A can revive Guardian B?

[trim grotto]

No.

[errant tapir]

Sadge

[blazing wasp]

we are apparently able to assist in revival of guardians by helping a ghost somehow, or so i believe

not 1:1 with gameplay but i swear i recall it being somewhat accurate.

[errant tapir]

Any lore videos worth watching?

[trim grotto]

Sorry friend
I don't watch lore videos

[errant tapir]

I'll just watch seasons chronologically then

Continuing season of undying

[errant tapir]

@trim grottowhy is there a pyramid in miasma lost sector?

jesus christ mael

parasite is very tedious

talk to ikora, talk to mara, get worm, satisfy worm, go to rune, go to lost sector at the end of the map, repeat, go to rune, go to lost sector

[slim girder]

The throne world is made up of some of savathuns memories. This is part of those memories. It's why there's also a temple to oryx and savathun before she became savathun.

Also that's not a pyramid as in a pyramid ship

It's just some architecture

[jagged badge]

I believe those things are called Pyramid Scales

[jagged badge]

That’s not likely to be a memory thing but part of the Witness’ invasion of Savathûn’s Throne World

[slim girder]

I guess I could see it since the entrance to rhulks ship is right next to the miasma.

[jagged badge]

Well, Rhulk’s ship being there is not part of the invasion

It was just always there

[slim girder]

As well as the precursor city stuff thats also in that region

[jagged badge]

But yeah Savathûn’s Throne World did already have Pyramid architecture built within it anyway

[slim girder]

Noted

[eager trout]

Maybe by giving Light

[hollow hinge]

The Byf 10 hour video

https://youtu.be/zzBmOeYmN_M?si=TsxXKXwvQB6ZO8D3

No embed in lore chat is crazy

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[hollow hinge]

My link isn't embedding

Is the link just borked then?

[ember storm]

It’s fine on my screen

I think you’re borked

[jagged badge]

Simply an issue of-

[ember storm]

Krill issue

[blazing wasp]

Krill dont have an issue, they are hive now

[ember storm]

Unless you’re a taox coper

[lost abyss]

Taox mentioned

[trim grotto]

Taox is fake news

[hollow hinge]

That's wild.. it only just now embedded before my eyes lol

[lucid oyster]

for anyone who would know

what is the winnower?

is that just darkness itself or something else

or nah

[uneven mulch]

what happened to titan?

[jagged badge]

The Witness Took it

[uneven mulch]

after season of the deep?

[jagged badge]

No, all the way back in Season of Arrivals

Season of the Deep is when Titan returned to the Solar System

[uneven mulch]

what happened to it in season of the deep

after?

[jagged badge]

Nothing

[uneven mulch]

so its just floating there?

[jagged badge]

Titan is still there, yes

[uneven mulch]

what happened to the woman

and the whale

[jagged badge]

Ahsa is hibernating after the events of Deep and Witch iirc

And Sloane is just around/looking over Ahsa I’d guess

[trim grotto]

It isn't entirely clear, but I would say it is an embodiment of... A concept. It considers itself to be a force of nature, like wind or gravity. We don't have a great deal of information about it outside of Unveiling, but I can compile some stuff for you later this evening in about five or six hours, if you'd like.

[lucid oyster]

yeah totally

is it a higher status then the witness?

[trim grotto]

The Witness once said it was not the Winnower, but its knife. The blade that separated the wheat from the chaff.

That doesn't strictly make it a villain, mind you.

[dim minnow]

the Winnower still does seem to adhere to cynical ideas

like the Sword Logic

though I suppose you are right in that it ain't really a villain

[trim grotto]

True! Though so does Toland, and he's insufferable, but he does aid us.

[dim minnow]

in the respect that it is very passive

[trim grotto]

Gremlin that he is

[trim grotto]

It is yeah
A sort of "it is inevitable" vibe

[dim minnow]

and also in that the Winnower doesn;t really feel the need to act as opposition

it does believe that it is inevitable

and while it was originally not very happy with our success, it chilled out thinking that it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things

since even if it is delayed by a long while, it would still triumph in the end

[uneven mulch]

who is the nine?

[trim grotto]

I don't have time to explain as I'm at work
But this does
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust

Specifically the entry called The Nine but I recommend the entire thing
Very good lore book

[uneven mulch]

ty

[slim girder]

I like to think of the winnower as destinys version of a "god" but not something that's worshipped more like one of the cosmic beings that is an integral part of the universe.

Not evil or good just watching over everything with its own philosophy.

Celestial being.

That's the term I was looking for

[lucid oyster]

but isn’t there the gardener wich is light embodied? and they came together and made life (i might be completely wrong i just remember seeing that in a video)

[slim girder]

Not really. As stated before we do not know much about them. Even I'd need to have a look again at the lore but i do know that these forces are not just light vs dark. It's more a war of logics as part of what's called the flower game. One side wants life to flourish without problems and the other wants life to prove its right to exist in order to flourish.

[lucid oyster]

when is the first time we here the terms “winnower” and “gardener”

sorry for all the questions it’s just really interesting

[slim girder]

In the unveiling lore book I believe

[lucid oyster]

when was that?

[blazing wasp]

Shadowkeep

[slim girder]

That was released in shadowkeep. When we retrieved the mysterious artefact from the lunar pyramid.

It began broadcasting messages.

These were decoded by eris and I believe it was every week we got a new entry

[civic quarry]

With a lot of gravitational anomalies. Air pockets run rampant in seafloor.

[civic quarry]

For instance: Light gives, and it can only give what it wants to us.

Meanwhile darkness takes, and you're free to take something you want from it

[hybrid sorrel]

Do guardians get paid?

[ember storm]

In terms of directly being sent a paycheck, no

But guardians generally get glimmer and other rewards for completing an operation, plus everyone basically operates on a “finders keepers” system in the field

[hybrid sorrel]

What would "other rewards" entail?

[ember storm]

Loot

[hybrid sorrel]

so guns and armor?

[ember storm]

Yep

Before he was fully enlisted with the witness, Calus regularly lured guardians to participate in leviathan challenges because he just handed out rewards

[hybrid sorrel]

is dares of eternity canon?

[ember storm]

It is a thing that happens yes

[hybrid sorrel]

does the vanguard know about it?

[ember storm]

It is not at all important to the plot or overall narrative, no

[ember storm]

Probably

[hybrid sorrel]

is there anything in the game that isn't canon?

[blazing wasp]

Lots, you'll have to elabot

Elaborate

[analog torrent]

Speaker facepalming in Grimoire 6

[vestal gale]

is khvostov alive?

[trim grotto]

No. What makes you say that?

[blazing wasp]

If you're talking about the flavor text of the gun, "you have no idea how long I've been looking for you", it's likely our ghost saying that

[lost abyss]

The Khvostov was the first weapon we found upon our resurrection, so yeah.

[ember storm]

That’s the quote Ghost says when we first wake up, khvostov is the first gun we find shortly after

[trim grotto]

The whole lore tab is about our Ghost finding us. It's rather sweet.

[wind timber]

if the traveler gifted savathun light why didnt it give it to ghaul im so confused

[wind timber]

hat lore tab

what*

[trim grotto]

Khvostov. That's what we were discussing.

[wind timber]

wheres that

[trim grotto]

Khvostov is a post campaign reward after Final Shape. It is a recreation of the very first gun we ever got in Destiny 1.

[trim grotto]

Millenia ago, on Fundament, the Hive were stolen by the Dark before the Traveler had the chance to uplift them - it was busy with the Ammonite.

When Savathûn betrayed the Witness, cut her Worm out, and offered herself to the Traveler - no tricks, just hope - the Traveler gave her, and her Hive, the second chance that they once had stripped from them all those millennia ago.

Savathûn didn't steal the Light. She was given it. Ghaul, however, tore it from the Traveler.

[wind timber]

is it good

[trim grotto]

It's pretty popular. Perhaps not the best in slot, but solid.

[ember storm]

Specifically, it was a ghost who gave Savathun the light

The traveler did not send Immaru to do it nor did it ever plan the events as they happened

But because the Krill never got their own chance to make their own decisions all that time ago, the Traveler simply allowed ghosts to go to Savathun, in hopes that something would change for the better

It made a gamble and it backfired, big time

Ghaul, on the other hand, just resorted to taking the light by force and killing everyone who stood in his way

Traveler wasn’t really happy about that

You might ask why a ghost would go to Savathun with her given reputation

The answer is simple: that ghost is an asshole

[hybrid sorrel]

When guardians are reborn do they just know english?

[jagged badge]

No

Sen-Aret is a Guardian who was resurrected from a very ancient corpse and its clear that she is still learning to speak English

[hybrid sorrel]

oh i think I heard about her, she's the oldest guardian to be reborn right?

[jagged badge]

That we know of specifically, yes

I believe, anyway

[trim grotto]

As Cayde put it...
"BOOM! I wake up. Groggy. Confused. Hungover. It's the same for us all, so that initial shock's nothing new. Sundance is in my face, and I'm freaking out. My brain works, but I don't remember a thing 'cept that I seem to be a functioning life form—I'm human, I'm a man. And then my mind starts reeling a thousand miles a minute. BOOM-BOOM-BOOM. Like I'm downloading the 'Idiot's Guide to Basic Human Existence.' Cool. Great. Still can't remember anything. And I sure can't wrap my head around the talking, floating magic robot orb-thing jabbering in my face. I'm freaked. So, I freaked. Smacked her to the ground. Hard… And I ran.
Guardians basically forget their episodic memory, similar to Exo. There are, however, base parts that they remember. Language, for example.
One Guardian from a very, very, very old corpse did not know English. One Guardian knows French. Canadian French, apparently.
Language, however, is fairly often glossed over. Probably so Bungie don't have to explain how the Hive or such know it.

[hybrid sorrel]

So it isn't really elaborated on.

is other stuff like this or only a few stuff language being one of them?

[trim grotto]

Or what our "normal" language is. It's English to us, but localisations exist.

[trim grotto]

There are a great many things that are elaborated on and made canon in Destiny. There are also things that aren't. Depends on the subject, but most things are at least referenced in lore.

[hybrid sorrel]

What are some stuff that is elaborated on and stuff that isn't?

[trim grotto]

Legendary shards, I suppose. They weren't in lore. But they're also now a removed currency, so that's a moot point.
There's a lot of things in Destiny. Do you have anything in mind?

[hybrid sorrel]

I was thinking just any question that would come up and would be mentioned in the lore of a game such as Destiny, for example the language thing.

[trim grotto]

There's not a terribly large amount of things that come to mind to be honest. But I'm also at work and it's rather early.

[hybrid sorrel]

... you're at work?

[trim grotto]

I am. Which is why my responses are sporadic at best.

[errant tapir]

There is a vandal who survived SEVEN rockets of gjallahorn?

SEVEN?

[trim grotto]

Oh you found Randal

[slim girder]

Say hi to randal the vandal

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/grimoire-enemiesreaver-vandal

Here's a lore tab dedicated to him

Maybe one day he might join house light

[slim girder]

All the alien species somehow knowing english is almost always "because video games"

I don't think I can recall any game that explained why an alien species would know the human language.

[trim grotto]

Exactly yeah

[ember storm]

I mean I feel like for antagonists at least there are some explanations

Like I fully believe Savathun would learn our language just to make sure we can understand her insults

There’s zero reason for oryx to be speaking human language when discussing his plans with ecthar though lol

[slim girder]

Only antagonists I can believe would be savathun as it's her nature to know everything. And I guess ghaul as well since we know he did like to study apparently..

We haven't seen any proper cabal language though which I'd like to see one day. Or even hive.

Like I want to know what all that stuff on this cabal info screens in missions says. Skyburners oath has an ammo counter in cabal numbers

[errant tapir]

Where does this mention seven gjallahorn rockets?

You guys seemingly unsurprised about randal

It was like a Tuesday for u guys

I'm still flabbergasted on how The hell

Did he survive?

[slim girder]

Because he's been around since the beta of Destiny 1. He's an old in joke of the community

Players in Destiny 1 walking around the cosmodrome would run into a vandal with seemingly bugged health that just wouldn't die and then when they did finally kill him, he'd just respawn.

[errant tapir]

Is that even lore or just a bug?

Does he have a ghost?

[slim girder]

No again it's just a funny in joke for bungie and the community that was implemented into the game

Back in D1 during the wrath of machine raid "randal" appeared again as a yellow bar vandal that took 6 players basically all the ammo they had to kill.

[trim grotto]

bug that became lore

[slim girder]

Telesto is another bug that was made into lore

[trim grotto]

sort of

more of a fun event and reference than lore

[errant tapir]

[trim grotto]

Telesto is famously buggy and has had or caused many many bugs over D2's lifespan

To such a degree that it has become a community meme

[errant tapir]

Okay

Wait

Who is the ghost of ikora?

[trim grotto]

Ophiuchus

[errant tapir]

How come we never seen it?

Is it tucked away?

[trim grotto]

We have. He just doesn't show up often. He's quiet.

[errant tapir]

I just watched a yt short

Ikora died so many times

That her ghost stopped talking to her

For 61 years

GOD DAMN

[trim grotto]

That is not why that happened

[errant tapir]

Then why is it quiet?

[trim grotto]

He's just a quiet person. If you mean the whole silent treatment though...

[errant tapir]

If ikora died, that means her ghost needs to be near to revive her

If we do not visually see it

Where is it hiding?

Under her robe?

[slim girder]

They argued a lot.

[trim grotto]

Pull out your Ghost in game

Same thing

[errant tapir]

Wait

Where do we even store our ghost?

[covert stone]

They kinda just phase into our backpack

Well, "backpack"

[trim grotto]

She pulled three arrows out of her quiver and whispered, "Pom, whatever happens, don't come out." Her Ghost answered her with a pulse of warmth in her left hand.

[slim girder]

They are still with us just not in a material form

[errant tapir]

Guardians can do magic trick then

[slim girder]

It's where their names as "ghosts" comes from

[errant tapir]

Hey, cmere. See no ghost

And then bam

Ghost is here now

[slim girder]

Why do you think they're called ghosts?

[errant tapir]

Idk

Cool name ig

Has ikora's ghost ever been chatty?

[slim girder]

It's because in a way they are our guardians "ghost" if we die they come out to bring us back just like if a regular person dies and their spirit is released

[trim grotto]

What video even said this

[trim grotto]

He chats. Quiet doesn't mean mute.

[slim girder]

There is no count on how many times ikora died