📚lore-discussion

[flat jolt]

Like 6 separate scenarios that happens all at once during raids. So 6 young wolfs, children of light

[ember storm]

Change how

There’s just an old universe and a modern universe

USUM has a crossover between the two

[brittle dirge]

Especially in a game where there’s time travel Schengenigans and simulations of said timelines and simulations of new things and its all over the place

[ember storm]

Original Ruby and sapphire are in the classic one, ORAS in the new

[ember storm]

Counterpoint

[brittle dirge]

Lore was never Pokémon’s strong suite

Let’s be fr here

[ember storm]

Vance is stupid and I don’t like him

I ignore everything about vex simulations

They’re boring

[flat jolt]

The only lore i follow is the pokemon adventures manga

[brittle dirge]

wtf did Vance do to you

[ember storm]

EXIST

[brittle dirge]

That I agree with

[ember storm]

But also I hate his “fans”

Like people complaining that D2 flanderized him somehow

[brittle dirge]

I’m indifferent

Vance is a person alright

[jagged badge]

Did you know Vance made Hope For The Future in Destiny’s universe?

[ember storm]

He was literally just a cultist in D1 with zero importance at all

[brittle dirge]

I supported fwc in d1 am I a bad guy

[ember storm]

In D2 he’s like a yard away from the man the cult was founded around, I think it’s ok for him to be a bit excited

[ember storm]

nah FWC itself is based

Lakshmi and her followers weren’t

[brittle dirge]

They kill fallen

[ember storm]

Plus FWC always had the best gear

[brittle dirge]

True

[ember storm]

I kill fallen

Fallen are fallen

[brittle dirge]

I feel guilty

Fallen are friends not enemies

[ember storm]

Fallen are specifically the enemies

I don’t use the derogatory term I just listen to what my ghost tells me to do on patrol

Kill the prime Servitor to make a house and its children starve? Yes sir

[brittle dirge]

Okay what about eliksni then

Surely you must think of them well

[ember storm]

Eliksni is neutral

[brittle dirge]

How dare you

[ember storm]

If they deserve it then I’d be ok with killing them

Like Eramis

[brittle dirge]

Eido is like the coolest person

[ember storm]

And she’s proven that she’s cool

So I have no reason to dislike her

[brittle dirge]

She had the personality of a wet paper towel and is now more than just that

[ember storm]

I’m not going to give any random Joe on the street special treatment

[flat jolt]

I meet fallen:

1. they shoot i shoot back
2. They do nothing as do i

[brittle dirge]

So that’s character improvement

[ember storm]

If he calls me an insult in Eliksni language then I solo super him

Simple as

[brittle dirge]

I always let the fallen in VH sleep after first

[flat jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny2-warlock-gif-9714996

[brittle dirge]

What can I say I’m a fallen lover

That’s not evident at all

[flat jolt]

No fallen can compete to the likes of Luzaku

[ember storm]

Back when solar Titan had the punch melee I would go around doing a ritual of incinerating all the bodies of the enemies I fought

It’s the proper thing to do

[brittle dirge]

The hive must hate you

[flat jolt]

They cant due to sword logic

[brittle dirge]

Since they’re scared of fusions I assume they’re scared of disnigratuin too

[ember storm]

Well i justify it with choosing between either smelling like a bunch of dirt or smelling like ashes

Yeah disintegration is like blasphemy to them

Doesn’t leave any essence of anything left

[flat jolt]

Isnt that part of their kill or be killed religion?

[ember storm]

Dying means you served your natural purpose to the universe and that your killer has earned it

[flat jolt]

Do they have elaborate funeral rites or something?

[ember storm]

Disintegrating stops any essence from being claimed or properly distributed at all

[ember storm]

Yeah Crota had an entire ceremony based on his soul essence

[flat jolt]

No way. Damn im not using sunbracers anymore.

[ember storm]

*Functionally not really but the hive are superstitious

[brittle dirge]

No they just take the souls and move on

But if you’re famous you get something

Just like the real world

As waltz mentioned Crota got something because he’s powerful

If you kill a random thrall they will not get a funeral because nobody cares

[flat jolt]

But erasing their body means i dont get tithe

[brittle dirge]

And we don’t need to tithe anymore

Nobody is going around screaming aiat

[flat jolt]

I wish bungie added in a hidden perk that increases damage dealt for how many things we killed using hive weapons.

You know sword logic stuff

[ember storm]

It’s believed

In practice it doesn’t actually make a difference

[brittle dirge]

Sword logic is already a perk

[ember storm]

Hive just don’t do anything that disintegrates and so being fought by people who do freaks them out

It’s mostly just a playground rumor

[flat jolt]

You’re right at that, i forgot XD

[ember storm]

Besides you’re not claiming any tribute from kills anyway

[brittle dirge]

Okay but a playground rumor that an entire species believes

[ember storm]

We don’t have a worm to actually collect them

[brittle dirge]

That’s more a misconception

[flat jolt]

Ah. So solar users are like the boogeyman and scares the hive kids

[ember storm]

Who said it was an entire species

I doubt Savathun was like “oh if I get killed by a fusion rifle all my imbaru will be erased”

[ember storm]

All subclasses we use can disintegrate

[brittle dirge]

They are the exceptions because they have above room temperature iq

[flat jolt]

No worm no sword logic? What about the witness thou?

[ember storm]

Thrall aren’t even able to recognize language as a thing

They don’t know shit

[ember storm]

Witness doesn’t subscribe to sword logic at all

[brittle dirge]

Well they’re actual babies

[ember storm]

It never gave a shit about the hive, beyond it being a plus to have a race worshipping darkness causing genocide rather than another traveler blessed civilization to go and kill

[flat jolt]

I remember he said something about sword logic being the first step or beginner guide to power and he hates the hive for embracing sword logic as the entire truth instead of digging deeper and learning more

[brittle dirge]

The witness is selfish in its reasonings

[ember storm]

Savathun was the only hive who the witness actually took an interest in specifically because she was distanced from sword logic

[brittle dirge]

It does not care for any of it’s subjects

[ember storm]

Yeah but it saw value in specific ones

As much of a puppet ruler Calus was, he still got a proper statue beside Rhulk and nezarec

[flat jolt]

About nezarec, what species is he

[ember storm]

Nezarec

He’s just a guy

Showed up one day and the Psions formed a religion out of it

That’s literally all we know

He’s specifically not a psion and that’s it

[flat jolt]

Did he create nezarecs sin or was it a armor made from his remains?

[ember storm]

It was just made by a cult member

Not directly tied to him

[brittle dirge]

Okay but that’s like you’re fixing something with a screwdriver and hammer

And then the screwdriver breaks, sure it had a purpose but it was nothing more than a tool you don’t really care

You’re more frustrated than anything

When the hammer breaks as well you’ll be upset but not distraught

Even if these tools were with you for years you wouldn’t feel anything, especially if you lacked empathy much like the witness

Everything to the witness is replaceable

[flat jolt]

Except the final shape

[ember storm]

A better allegory would be this:

The witness is a prestigious ceo

Disciples are upper management

Actually the witness would be the entire board of directors

There wouldn’t be a ceo

Everything else is just a random employee

[brittle dirge]

So are you saying we were the ghosts of Christmas but we actually just killed Scrooge instead of helping him

[ember storm]

You hire a bunch when it’s convenient and cut ties when it’s time to add to your sports car collection

[brittle dirge]

Pete Davidson reference

[ember storm]

Also a group of 6 raccoons break in and kill your upper management

It’s sad but you’re still there so you keep going

Keep a nice “employee of the month” plaque of them in the break room

Still go on with business tho

[brittle dirge]

I’m pretty sure there’s at least one doing most of the shit as “We… I… I don’t understand…”

Implies one was mostly in control

Especially the one voice at the end

[ember storm]

I don’t see it as one individual was in charge

The witness was its own entity created by the formation of the precursors

[flat jolt]

Who leads the darkness now that the witness is gone?

[ember storm]

By the end of excision it was alone for the first and only time in its existence

[brittle dirge]

“We won’t put up another day with you!”

[ember storm]

It couldn’t understand because it literally didn’t have the capacity

[ember storm]

Dissenters called it “our witness”

They never implied one of them was in charge

The Witness was its own entity

[brittle dirge]

An entity which housed other people though so surely they would get a say yes?

[ember storm]

Witness never really did in the first place

It just helmed the black fleet

Veil is still farting around in the bottom of Neptune, so

There’s that

[brittle dirge]

It led forces of darkness but not the darkness itself

[ember storm]

Also the winnower if you think it’s a separate entity

[brittle dirge]

Same way we harness the light but we don’t provide it

[ember storm]

Witness is kinda meant to be the opposite of guardians in that way yeah

It was an entire race making a collective decision to grant themselves the power of primordial darkness to force their ideology on the universe

Guardians were made by an outside force through no choice of their own, with the goal of providing the freedom in the “live and let live” sort of way

[flat jolt]

Now that the witness is gone what happened to the traveller?

[brittle dirge]

Nothing

It’s chill now

[ember storm]

Still recovering

It probably won’t ever be the same again

[flat jolt]

Its still stuck there with its purple triangle door?

[brittle dirge]

It doesn’t have to run anymore

[ember storm]

It’s not going to be moving around shooting lasers again anytime soon

The pale heart is a permanent fixture

[flat jolt]

Damn what a life, one is stuck with its door open and another used as a battery/ai

Two strongest entity in the universe

[ember storm]

Well it’s getting a lot of time for self reflection

That’s kinda what the little baby traveler vision things are

[brittle dirge]

Well the traveler I feel like has been through worse

Being split into pieces hurts

[ember storm]

Also basically amputated itself with the EDZ shard

Also did a starro

[ruby pivot]

i assume its like some of your skin being peeled

and those said skins are floating around you

[brittle dirge]

Yeah the traveler has been through a fucking lot

[flat jolt]

And so ends the fight between light n dark, tomorrow the story continues with the Vex and their infinite simulation to conquer the universe.

[ember storm]

I hope fenchurch dies and confirms it doesn’t smell like vanilla

[brittle dirge]

What

[ember storm]

Well right now they’re stuck being conquered by an elderly robot lesbian

So vex aren’t really on the menu atm

[brittle dirge]

It’s still going we gotta stop the echoes

[ember storm]

I think they confirmed there was more than three right?

[brittle dirge]

Did they?

[ember storm]

Crow only confirmed the locations of the three were seeing in the episodes now

The Ikora cutscene definitely showed more than just three

[brittle dirge]

I love Atraks

Hope she becomes the main villain

She needs more development

[jagged badge]

She gone

[ember storm]

This is also like the starro gif

[brittle dirge]

No the fuck she is not

[ember storm]

Eris can I post the starro

[jagged badge]

From Suicide Squad?

[ember storm]

Yea

[jagged badge]

For why

[ember storm]

Lore related

Visual aid

[jagged badge]

OH

[trim grotto]

Gotta agree with Eris here
There's nothing suggesting she'll return a third time
It isn't implausible but I find it quite unlikely

[jagged badge]

I think I get what you’re getting at

Yk what go on lmao

[brittle dirge]

I haven’t seen that movie

[ember storm]

Ok so personal theory

We’ll be seeing a lot more echoes

[brittle dirge]

I do know who starro is though

[ember storm]

They basically just spilled out the witness like so:

[brittle dirge]

Peak character

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/starro-the-suicide-squad-suicide-squad-spores-gif-24191078

[brittle dirge]

Ew wtf

[jagged badge]

😭

[trim grotto]

Creation of the Ghosts be like

[ember storm]

Did you think starro became a conquerer by being a big starfish

It’s a parasitic hive mind

[jagged badge]

TFS came so close to showing us how it happened fully

That was such a cool cutscene though

[brittle dirge]

I know they mind controlled people using the most obvious mind control of all time (how could anyone suspect a person with a star on their face)

But like

Why that way

[ember storm]

It’s not meant to be sneaky

[brittle dirge]

why show that

[ember storm]

It’s like head crabs

[brittle dirge]

Half life???

Sudden

[ember storm]

Complete and total assimilation

Yes

The person is dead the moment the star latches on

It digs into their brain

[brittle dirge]

Well that’s not true

Heroes have been controlled before

[ember storm]

Not in the movie

[brittle dirge]

Oh I thought we meant comics

[ember storm]

They (meaning the hosts too) all drop dead when starro does

[brittle dirge]

I mean that’s how a hive mind works

[ember storm]

Yeah but sometimes you have narratives that go “actually everything is all ok now and we’re all completely fine after having our sense of selves erased and used like meat puppets for an unspecified amount of time”

There should be consequences to that sort of thing

[brittle dirge]

I guess so

Imagine half life but the people could just recover from head crabs

I mean they are conscious which makes it even scarier

[ember storm]

“Thanks Gordon, my ribcage grew back”

[brittle dirge]

My face is fine now! It’s a miracle!

I would have a head crab as a pet like the one scientist does

Just remove the face eating things

[dim minnow]

their beak

[brittle dirge]

I’ve actually never played half life so thanks

[uneven mulch]

whats the darkness version of arc?

[flat jolt]

TBC

[trim grotto]

That's not really how the Darkness subclasses work. They're not polar opposite.

[uneven mulch]

o

[errant tapir]

Day 17 of asking fun facts

[trim grotto]

Lord Shaxx and Cayde-6 once each gathered a team of children and faced off in a dodgeball match

[errant tapir]

ohh i think i know this part

is this where cayde cheated?

[trim grotto]

Cayde-6 won a duel between himself and Lord Shaxx, and this dodgeball match was the losing bet.
Whether Cayde-6 cheated or not is... up for debate.

[ember storm]

He uninstalled battleeye

[slim girder]

Ikora in the crucible was such a monster that shaxx still has trouble sitting which is why he's always standing. To my knowledge this is the first time a guardian has been permanently injured to some extent even with the powers of light and their ghost.

My guess she broke his lower back/tailbone or something

[trim grotto]

I'm pretty sure that's hyperbole.

[ruby pivot]

do you you guys think ikora will snap if someone said to her face to face "square up,granny"

[lost abyss]

Probably not, since her fuse isn't as short after the Great Hunt iirc. She still has a temper, but it seems to take a bit more nowadays. Seen with her Nightmare of Cayde on the Levithan, found in Trespasser's lore tab.

[ruby pivot]

ah right, considering her friend is cayde i really dont doubt she did build up some resistance to such things

[lament pivot]

Ok so like when a person is made in to an exo, is it actually them that's the exo or a copy?

[sick yew]

Technically speaking its a copy I believe

But the original brain dies in the proccess so there is still only one version of the person remaining

To my knowledge you can imagine it like scanning a document into a printer to digitalize with the exception that the original physical document gets destroyed in that proccess

So you are left with a digital copy of the document thats now the only one left existing

[trim grotto]

Pretty much.
The scan process bombards your brain with radiation. A perfect scan is extracted, and about 24 hours later, the body dies whilst under anaesthesia.
An Exo is, functionally, a copy of a now-dead human.

[sick yew]

Yep

[trim grotto]

It is understandable why this is a point of concern for many people. Only those with a... particularly open-minded approach to the problem of causal forks would be willing to participate without a second thought.

[lament pivot]

I imagine the details where a intentionally left a bit hazy so no one got worried

[trim grotto]

Yes, Clovis Bray wasn't particularly open about the gritty details.

[sick yew]

Braytech confidentials my beloved

[lament pivot]

Where do you find them I've got none unlocked

[sick yew]

Theres a website for lorebooks

[trim grotto]

It's been a few years since then... something to do with the post-campaign of Beyond Light.

But yeah there's Ishtar

https://www.ishtar-collective.net

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-bray-lab-records-confidential
This in particular

[sick yew]

Sorta warning up ahead, some of these entries are comparatively disgusting and graphical

Specifically test 109 Food Supplement

[lament pivot]

Love how the "golden age" is actually kinda awful with all this stuff going on

[sick yew]

Agreed

Its kind of a funny twist

Like there was so much horrific shit happening

[trim grotto]

Hm. Well, most of it was quite bright, honestly. Clovis Bray was, to our knowledge, a rather hefty exception. There's a reason he shacked up on Europa of all places.

[lament pivot]

Oh also somewhat related, do you think the fallen exo in dsc would be a similar threat to the guy at the end of wraith had they been able to get out of the dsc?

[trim grotto]

Atraks was more of a threat in what she represented. Had she and the rest of House Salvation succeeded, she would not have been the only Eliksni Exo. They could have produced an army.

[lament pivot]

It's kinda odd erimis didn't make the cypt their highest priority and station themselfs there

[trim grotto]

Breaking in was a delicate affair, and Atraks-1 was a prototype. Honestly, I'm shocked they managed to get it to function on her, and get her to overcome DER in that incredibly crude manner.
I would be remiss to mention that the Morningstar began to fall from orbit, armed with nuclear bombs, because of our brute-forcing of the security system. The Eliksni managed to sneak in.
Lastly of course, House Salvation had not been there terribly long, and their priority was originally to build a new home and sanctuary for the Eliksni, not to build an army. Those priorities shifted, as you have seen, but it wasn't the original plan.

[ruby pivot]

question among the elements we use

is void the strongest?

i assume it is

cuz black holes and sending things into the "shadow realm"

[trim grotto]

There's no such ranking of the elements.

[errant tapir]

hmmm

so the event happened with the saint clone ya?

not the original one

oh ya this is very interesting

what is the lore on saint?

how did he died the original and has been replaced with a clone?

[blazing wasp]

Saint died searching for Osiris in the infinite forest, using the sundial we managed to get a saint from a different timeline

[lament pivot]

):

[tough badge]

Are we the most famous guardian?

[sick yew]

Probably not

[errant tapir]

Woah woah there

Slow down

Remind me the event of infinite forest again psl

[sick yew]

During a sidequest in CoO we discover the grave of saint 14

He once went in there in search of Osiris where fought and killed untold thousands of Vex, he was such a problem they had to construct a mind that was specifically designed to analyze and suppress Saints unqiue light signature which would eventually lead to his death and then we found his grave

[slim girder]

The vex hold him in reverence which isn't something we thought they would even do

That's why instead of just disposing of him he had a grave inside the infinite forest

[tough badge]

Who would be up there if not us?

[slim girder]

Ikora, saint 14, cayde, and many others

[sick yew]

Ikora, Zavala, Shaxx, Cayde, Ana Bray, Saint, Osiris, Saladin, Felwinter

Canonically speaking barely anyone really knows us

[tough badge]

Man I thought we were the goat

[sick yew]

We aint a prevelant lore character
Usually just referred off hand

[slim girder]

We have titles and have done great feats but the others have lived for centuries and are true veteran guardians in history

[tough badge]

But…but…but… we’re the main character

[sick yew]

Ingame yeah

But not really in lore

[slim girder]

Not in lore

[tough badge]

Lore is like real life and in real life I’m the main character so I gotta be the goat

[slim girder]

Well that's the beauty of destiny. You project your own lore onto your character

Favourite exotic, subclass, past time, etc.

[tough badge]

Then bungie nerfs something and my lore is ruined

BRING BACK TITAN ONE SHOT SHOULDER CHARGE

(Ok thx for the info I’ll leave yall be now)

[slim girder]

Just use peregrine. Friend of mine has made Peregrines basically their whole personality

[tough badge]

Ya but skullfort and one shot seismic charge was goated now I have to use an exotic for one shot

[errant tapir]

What is CoO?

And where is infinite forest?

I remembered vaguely in episode echoes, we get to see saint grave with the other saint

Am I correct?

[sick yew]

Curse of Osiris

[errant tapir]

What is sundial?

[sick yew]

Basically a machine Osiris constructed that searched through countless timelines to find one with a Saint-14 who was basically the same as the one from our timeline but not dead

So he could get him back

[ember storm]

People definitely know about us

Rando who got killed by the nightmare of Ghaul mentioned us specifically by name

Personal relationships is relegated to the characters we see ingame, though

[blazing wasp]

Gjallarhorn lore shows that we are at least known

Some people recognise us immediately

Like, people who our character isn't well versed with, im not counting ikora and stuff here

[ember storm]

We’re well known

The Young Wolf is practically a celebrity, ghost mentions this directly in LF

The people we know personally is the lesser number

If Marcus Ren got a name for being good on a sparrow, how would you not recognize the one person who destroyed the black heart, killed majority of the hive pantheon, won the red war, etc

[blazing wasp]

O yea

[slim girder]

On Mercury. Since the planet is basically all vex, they transformed it into a planet sized simulation machine. Trillions of simulations all going at once so the vex can find a future when only they exist in the universe.

That is the end goal of the vex.

[ember storm]

Different locations serve different functions for the vex

Nessus served as a perpetual life simulation/data storage, Venus was for the vault, and Mercury was for the forest

There wasn’t really any particular reason for which location served which purpose, they just operated independently from each other

Mars had the black garden gate for some reason

[fresh zephyr]

and the moon

[ember storm]

Well moon had a specific reason

Sol Divisive wanted direct access to the pyramid, it’s where they started their invasions during Season of Undying

[lost abyss]

Doesn't the Vex Gate Network function regardless of location? It only requires a gate to be constructed and calibrated to a destination iirc. e.g. Mars and the Moon both hosting gates to the Black Garden.

I actually wondered if the locations like Vault and IF were actually present in those locations or if they were just like superimposed within.

[errant tapir]

Nooo

We can't let that happen

[errant tapir]

Doesn't that disrupt the timeline?

[ember storm]

Ordinarily yes, but the black garden had no such network

They specifically only made one big gate to be used at a time because they valued security above all else

The Infinite Forest is literally just a vr facility built into the soil of Mercury, it doesn’t have an “inside” proper

VoG is very much just inside Venus cave systems geologically

[errant tapir]

@trim grotto need story telling

[jagged badge]

He’s probably working

[errant tapir]

I need answers

[jagged badge]

About what?

[errant tapir]

This

[trim grotto]

It is true
I am at work
Quite busy in fact

[trim grotto]

But I can talk in two hours

[knotty musk]

so you know how different foundries have different naming conventions for their weapons?
suros and their musical regime
veist and their venomous critters
I notice that ammit of omolon is ya know, the egyptian god, what’s all the other naming conventions per foundry exactly?

if this is a lore question

[trim grotto]

I need to brush up on this topic in particular but I can at least provide Tex Mechanica
Tex guns were usually... titles. The titles have at least two distinct forms that I recall.
The most famous one you probably know of is the Duke Mk. 44.

Other ones include Bandit and Hard Luck and, believe it or not, the Ballyhoo.

Hard Luck and Ballyhoo aren't titles, per se, but phrases. I'll need to double check and see if they're breakways from the norm or not.

I'm on my mobile waiting for the car wash haha

This research was done in the Cryptarchy in the past so when I get home I'll dig it up for you

Sarsion's old bot had an interactive list it could pull up as a command but I think it's inactive right now

[knotty musk]

I suppose you could find an old record of someone using the command instead

[knotty musk]

thank you for that

[ruby hawk]

How dangerous are most of the enemies we fight in lore? For example Fallen captains seem pretty weak but I mean one killed the hunter vanguard before cayde so where do many enemies we fight stand?

[trim grotto]

I'll get back to you on that
Car wash done
Time to drive home

[ruby hawk]

Thanks is appreciated

[jagged badge]

Taniks killed the Vanguard before Cayde

[ruby hawk]

True, not sure if he was as skilled or more so than a Captain at the time also not sure how long he's been a merc if I remember correctly

[ember storm]

Fallen captains are the standard example of what Eliksni should be: properly sized with healthy ether intake and all of their arms

By default they trump any standard human

Taniks was not only fairly bigger than a normal captain, he was also a hardened mercenary with tons of cybernetic enhancement

Guardians can be as powerful as they want, doesn’t stop a good shot from putting them down

Andal Brask was alone and unprepared, basically the hard counter to any hunter

You know Abe was an absolute monster in hand-to-hand combat, there’s a reason Booth had to shoot him from behind

It wasn’t “oh he met in mutual combat and just barely proved he was superior”

Taniks is said to have murdered Brask, it was a hit

Basically just got Soprano’d

This isn’t to say Taniks was a chump, he still required numerous vanguard fireteams repeatedly taking him down to actually end him

But powerscaling isn’t really something destiny lends itself to well

All you need to know is that humanity is by default on a lower playing field than every other race

Guardians have a leg up in the power department, but if they get killed, they get killed

All it comes down to is whether or not the ghost gets got too

[flat jolt]

Humans are biologically weaker for sure, but shaxx and zavala are an exception to the rule. Mad men going bare knuckles and head butt cabals and vex machines

[ember storm]

They were guardians

Zavala is also awoken

They are inherently paracausal

Guardians have innate strength and defense boosts thanks to their light

Also Red War made a point to show that Zavala was actually struggling against a single legionary

He wouldn’t have gotten knocked to his feet if he had his light

[flat jolt]

Ngl wish i played red war

[lost abyss]

Which is still a crazy impressive feat. Cabal are physically stronger by many, many times than that of any Human-adjacent race.

But, definitely a point to show what it's like without the Light.

[ember storm]

I mean yeah he’s just inherently a more seasoned fighter but the moment the cabal got a hit on him he went down (which was the point of the scene)

[lost abyss]

Yeah, and with the Light they can do really crazy things. Wei Ning moving a mountain, even slightly. And, Siegfried defeating an Ogre with just his hands.

[uneven mulch]

yall what are the awoken?

like are they just aliens?

and exo's too?

[trim grotto]

Exo are human minds that have been scanned and uploaded into an artificial body.
Awoken were originally humans, created during the Collapse in a clash of Light and Dark. These paracausal powers became part of them.

Those are the very short answers. There is a lot more depth to both.

[uneven mulch]

oh

do exo's have uh

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[uneven mulch]

ah

wait so cayde used to be human?

[trim grotto]

Yes, in the Golden Age, he was a human.

[uneven mulch]

and every other exo?

[trim grotto]

Except for Lord Felwinter and that one time Rasputin was uploaded into an Exo frame, yes.

[uneven mulch]

might be a autistic question but since ghosts can only bond with one guy

what if that guy became an exo

would it still work?

[slim girder]

Not possible to become an exo anymore and ghosts came after the collapse

[trim grotto]

Probably not, but the Exo scan process bombards a brain with radiation as it extracts a perfect data copy of your mind. This kills the recipient, but a copy of their mind is kept and uploaded into an Exo. If one were a Lightbearer, their Ghost could simply rez them afterwards, leaving you with a Guardian, and an Exo with a copy of their mind.

That being said, nobody bar Atraks-1 has been produced as an Exo since the Collapse. We do not have the technology.

[slim girder]

Also it's a very immoral practice I'd assume now

I don't think anyone in the current day and age wants to be turned into an exo

[errant tapir]

fuck sry

[uneven mulch]

wait exo's came before the eliksni and shit?

the fallen

[trim grotto]

Exo were Golden Age. Eliksni didn't arrive until after the Collapse of the Golden Age.

[uneven mulch]

the golden age is when the traveller arrived on earth?

right?

[trim grotto]

Most would cite the arrival of the Apollo mission on Mars to meet the Traveler as it terraformed the Red Planet as the beginning

But you have the right idea yes

The Traveler terraformed other worlds before it got to Earth - it fled here during the Collapse itself

[uneven mulch]

is it misraaks or mithrax?

[low gyro]

From what I understand, first is the actual Eliksni name, second is the name we knew him as before we knew much about Eliksni culture

[slim girder]

Misraaks or Misraskskel is the eliksni way of pronouncing it. Mithrax is how other species say it.

[uneven mulch]

so like

romanized name or some shit

[slim girder]

In a way sure.

[uneven mulch]

translated name

[sick yew]

It's how different languages pronounce the name yeah

Same way a name in English will be pronounced entirely different in German

[lament pivot]

I mean

If the fallen can do it

[sick yew]

Cause they are experts at reverse engineering technology

[ember storm]

I mean I feel like Atraks is a good example of them not really doing it properly

And like previously mentioned it is a bit of an ethical problem

Clovis literally only started the exo project because he wanted to be immortal

[fresh zephyr]

Can someone help me with the encore exotic quest please

[trim grotto]

This is a lore channel. It's for talking about the story, universe, lore, so on. We can explain the meaning and story behind it here, but we're not hanging out in this channel for gameplay.

[trim grotto]

Therein lies the problem
We crashed the Morningstar atop the DSC

While it may be possible to create new Exo, we'd have to figure out the mindscan process, find or construct a suitable functioning Exobody, and deal with the subsequent DER and retrograde amnesia. We'd have to entirely re-educate whoever got uploaded. It'd be like having a freshly rezzed Guardian, but without the power of the Light. Someone would also have to volunteer for this process, unless we started pulling random mindscans.

All that is to say that it is possible, yes, but not particularly practical at this time

[sage garden]

is One Thousand Voices made out of an Ahamakra or Riven herself?

[trim grotto]

Given that Riven's title is Riven of a Thousand Voices, I'd say the latter.

[slim girder]

Fallen was the name we gave them when we first met them because they were a "fallen" civilisation that was pursuing the traveler.
The eliksni is the true name of their species.

[jagged badge]

In a way it’s similar to how Halo had the names humanity gave the enemies and their actual species names

Elite - Sangheili
Brute - Jiralhanae
Grunt - Unggoy

Etc.

[lament pivot]

Wait how did we know that

[slim girder]

I don't know how it was discovered but it was just general lore from the very start of destiny.

[flat jolt]

So everything started when a bunch of people went to Venus, that was the beginning or middle of the great age?

Or did the traveler came first?

[jagged badge]

Mars

Lemme quickly summarise

[flat jolt]

Thanks in advance eris. Kinda wanna grasp the timeline here.

[jagged badge]

So “modern day” humanity tracked the Traveler entering the Solar System and planned a mission to intercept and establish contact with it. The Ares One mission. This was an international cooperation, and the main astronauts/scientists involved were Jacob Hardy, Ulysses Qiao, Dr M. Mihaylova and Evie Calumet (though Evie died shortly before the mission launch)

Fun fact, Evie was the one who first proposed the Traveler’s name

Before then it was known as Moon X

[ember storm]

Traveler is a major LeBron fan

[jagged badge]

So the three astronauts representing America, China and Russia embarked on the mission to Mars and made first contact with the Traveler, finding first hand how it had terraformed the red planet as they found it raining there

This began the Golden Age, as the Traveler blessed humanity with elongated lifespans and just generally allowed them to accelerate scientific progress and travel to new worlds that had been made safe by the Traveler’s terraforming

[flat jolt]

Then with improved tech the ishtar collective was made, after or before arriving in Venus? Then the iron lords time came after something bad happened to earth? Then the last city was built to defend from fallen adversaries who chased after traveler and maybe cabal which lead to the red war?

[jagged badge]

According to cursory glance at Destinypedia, the founders of the Ishtar Collective founded the first colony on Venus

They were very heavily focused there, especially studying the Vex ruins on Venus

[jagged badge]

The Golden Age lasted for a few/several centuries (I’m not entirely clear how long)
Then it came crashing down when the Black Fleet arrived, causing the Collapse. As the Traveler pushed the Black Fleet away, it created the Ghosts, who spread out across Earth searching for their Lightbearers. In the Dark Age, some Lightbearers chose to misuse their gifts and become Warlords, ruling over surviving civilians and controlling and fighting over territory and resources. Others opposed them and banded together to form the Iron Lords. Meanwhile the Fallen arrived in the system, leading to conflicts like the burning of London, and general raids on human settlements across the planet

Eventually the Last City slowly started to form, and the news spread, with people trying to relocate there if they could and Lightbearers coning together to defend it and officially earn the title of Guardians

The Dark Age lasted a few centuries at least, and so did the City Age

Several notable conflicts occurred in the City Age. The Battle of Six Fronts, where the Fallen attempted to attack the Last City. The Great Ahamkara Hunt, where Guardians were order to put down the Ahamkara due to the danger their species posed. The Great Disaster, when Guardians in the millions led an ill-advised assault on the Hive on the moon, leading to the slaughter of countless lives, mostly by Crota

Twilight Gap too, another instance where the Fallen Houses allied together to attack the City, and very nearly won too. (Simultaneous to this were the Reef Wars, in which the Awoken had intercepted the House of Wolves who were trying to go to fight in Twilight Gap)

We were resurrected after all that, and then it was 3 years after our resurrection that the Red War happened

[flat jolt]

So the fallen was the first of our foes, then we fought with the hive.

Do we know where on earth the last city is based?

[jagged badge]

South America, roughly

[ember storm]

Technically speaking some Hive hunted down the lunar colony sometime before/just after the start of the collapse, but of course guardians didn’t even exist then so we weren’t fighting them

Fallen appeared in the system as pirates and warlords, either wanting to reclaim the traveler or fight for the sake of revenge

Hence the whole burning down of London business

Cabal were an incredibly recent force in the solar system

[flat jolt]

The hive was here before the black fleet came? Or did the black fleet lead/brought them here?

[ember storm]

Before

Crota and his army were sent to establish a beachhead on the moon

Hive acted independently from the black fleet

[flat jolt]

Solar system being the most popular travel destination in the whole universe

[sleek matrix]

When the traveler did its light explosion that's when the fleet turned towards us

The fleet were most likely idle waiting

[ember storm]

That’s sort of what happens when you harbor the living embodiment of life and chaos

[sleek matrix]

But i do wonder if the witness knew maybe before hand where traveler was

Didn't he send nez to invade the moon

[flat jolt]

If the hive landed directly on earth it would have been game over very fast

Or if they could just erase our sun etc.

[sleek matrix]

It made sense to go on moon and setup a proper base

Since its very close to 🌎

[jagged badge]

The Hive were on the moon before humanity even existed

[ember storm]

No, Nez was just sent to secure the traveler for the final shape

[frank barn]

Wait wasnt it the witness why mars and mercury were destroyed

[ember storm]

Savathun just killed him and left his pyramid on the moon

not destroyed

Taken

[frank barn]

What was the reason mars came back?

[flat jolt]

They took an entire planet?

[sleek matrix]

And we didn't know ?

[flat jolt]

I rmb they were hibernating under the moon

[sleek matrix]

Like during the later ages

[frank barn]

They see neil armstrong just here and are like what who are you

[jagged badge]

Savathûn

[ember storm]

Mars had the enclave which Savathun wanted us to find

Which introduced us to deepsight and let us replay her memories

[frank barn]

So savathun was just like “ok here is mars”

[ember storm]

Well the point is that nobody knew at the time

[frank barn]

Did she like wish on an ahamkara or something

[ember storm]

It literally just appeared

[ember storm]

No, just taken power

[frank barn]

Lol

[ember storm]

Same way the witness took it away, reversed

It’s how she got the traveler in her throne world too

[flat jolt]

Taken is too op a power

[frank barn]

I forgot about that

[flat jolt]

Its not connected to sword logic isit?

Or hive magic?

[ember storm]

Not in any way

Oryx gained the power to take completely independent of his worm

[frank barn]

Why didnt oryx do that lol just like yo traveler your in my dreadnaught now

[ember storm]

He just killed the worm god in charge at the time (Akka) and “The Deep” essentially made him the new big cheese

[ember storm]

Because that would just destroy the Dreadnaught the moment he did so?

Also Oryx was incredibly reductive

Savathun points out he never actually applied the power to take in any meaningful way

You can see it in the Phobos cutscene, he just arrogantly claims he’ll personally take every enemy in the solar system

[frank barn]

Who leads the taken now?

[ember storm]

Nobody

[frank barn]

Hmm

[ember storm]

That’s why they’re bumming around the echoes battleground and the ToE

[flat jolt]

So killing your worm, probably due to sword logic, becoming stronger. And darkness will grant you a new power.

[ember storm]

Whenever their leader dies they just fumble around trying to get a new one

[frank barn]

Xivu arath maybe

[ember storm]

The worm does it thanks to the worm gods they’re connected to

[frank barn]

She could become the leader

[ember storm]

Stated to not in any way

[sleek matrix]

If you have a strong enough will they will go towards that

[ember storm]

She could never command taken

[frank barn]

Why?

[ember storm]

Because she’s a loser

[frank barn]

lol

[ember storm]

The Witness was always in control after Riven and Quria were gone

Xivu could literally never amount to it

[flat jolt]

So far only a handful of hive leaders and witness have access to taken right

[ember storm]

Echoes suggests she’s simply not interested in the taken either

[frank barn]

So now someone more powerful than the witness has the become the leader?

[ember storm]

No

Someone just has to fill the spot

[frank barn]

Ah ok

[ember storm]

Taken don’t all follow the same leader anyway

The Witness still had its own taken while oryx was doing his thing

[frank barn]

Interesting

[ember storm]

Rhulk had command due to being a disciple

And Riven was Riven

[frank barn]

What if someone on our side controls them

[flat jolt]

Wait a minute, dont the drifter has taken too?

[ember storm]

Couldn’t simply

[sleek matrix]

The closest would be mara

[ember storm]

Fake taken

[sleek matrix]

If they were to do that

[ember storm]

He also can’t control them

[frank barn]

Huh i thought he just captures them

[ember storm]

They’re puppets made by the nine using dark matter

[frank barn]

Lol

[ember storm]

Primevals are the only actual taken anywhere in gambit and he can’t control them at all

He just summons them to be a boss to get shot at to win the match

[frank barn]

No one in control of the light can take them simply

Or is that not it

[sleek matrix]

Mara is also born of darkness to

Not just light

[frank barn]

Ok

So its not absence of light its just possesion of darkness

[errant tapir]

Day 18 of asking fun facts lore

[flat jolt]

So now no one leads/represents darkness. No disciples exist.

[sleek matrix]

I think theres probably a few out there

[frank barn]

So like if eris morn got like alot of power could she possibly control them

[flat jolt]

And the nine, are they like intergalactic government and are they light/dark aligned?

[ember storm]

No and no

[frank barn]

Or maybe elsie bray 💀

[ember storm]

The Nine are simply on their own

They are beings formed from sentient space dust

[flat jolt]

No greed for power?

[sleek matrix]

Can we call it dark matter for easy reference

[flat jolt]

So they’re like the alien x from ben 10. Minding their own biznez as the strongest force in the universe.

[frank barn]

Maybe the guardian could control taken? They are more than powerful enough and also are dark

[frank barn]

Lol

[sleek matrix]

That would be cool like a minion subclass

[frank barn]

Summoner from terraria lol

Go taken goooo

[sleek matrix]

Go my thrall

[ember storm]

Far from strong

[flat jolt]

Darkness has a unmoving turret and moving threadlings so taken could be the third subclass

[frank barn]

Yes a black subclass thats a color we havent done yet

[ember storm]

They are quite weak, which is the point

[frank barn]

But then the nice square that holds our subclases would be broken

[ember storm]

They are wholly dependent on life in the solar system existing at all

If we die, they cease to exist

[flat jolt]

That makes them light aligned

[ember storm]

They want their own bodies free from their prison of an existence

[ember storm]

Nope

They directly aided Ghaul in the red war

[flat jolt]

What

Wth 🤦🏻‍♂️

[jagged badge]

Sorta

[frank barn]

The nine?

[jagged badge]

One or some of the Nine (I forget which) facilitated the conditions that allowed the Red Legion to sneak up on the Tower

They wanted to see if the Light could be caged and siphoned and used I believe

Because they wanted to see if they could use it for themselves

[frank barn]

Wow

[flat jolt]

Their survival is based on us living which is what light is, creation and they almost killed us all for a science experiment which could lead to their demise

[frank barn]

Then why do we permit xur just being there in the tower

[sleek matrix]

Its not that simple

[jagged badge]

Xûr’s there to give us cool gear so we can fuck up our enemies and live

[flat jolt]

We should just rob xur

[jagged badge]

He’s just a chill guy whose will is not his own

[sleek matrix]

Xur is an emissary of the nine

[frank barn]

Also i came back after not playing for a bit is xur now permanently in the tower?

Why?

[sleek matrix]

Yes

[frank barn]

Any lore reason for itv

[flat jolt]

Cuz travelling to three separate planets is a pain

[sleek matrix]

Because it got annoying

[frank barn]

So just for QoL no reason for it k

[sleek matrix]

There was no benefit to him appearing on a random location

[flat jolt]

They even gave him a vendor reputation

[sleek matrix]

Gameplay wise

Back in the day he was introduced as a mysterious vedor

Those days are long gone

[frank barn]

At this point just make a him a vendor with rotating stock and make him there permanently lol

Anyway so there is a way to untake as savathun did with mars

[flat jolt]

He does bring artifice for f2p non pvpers

Easy way to get catalysts

[frank barn]

Could we do that with mercury or something

[flat jolt]

Venus too

[frank barn]

If like lets say uh a vex controls the taken

They want infinite forest back

Could they just bring back mercury

[sleek matrix]

If bungie wants to bring those places back

[frank barn]

Yeah

[flat jolt]

They fear vex getting light and dark powers, i fear the vex getting taken

[frank barn]

Would an alliance with the vex ever be possible though. I am assuming not. Like eliksni cabal and hive all pulled up to kill witness

But

[sleek matrix]

Nah

[frank barn]

Vex are just simply

Ops

[sleek matrix]

Vex don't give a fuck

[flat jolt]

Vex are selfish. Osiris says they wanna cleanse the universe

[sleek matrix]

They main goal is to survive everything

And be the only ones

[frank barn]

They are like cockroaches

Infest

Survive

[flat jolt]

I guess scorns and vex are 100% enemies.

[frank barn]

Yeah but scorn have a soul

[ember storm]

Scorn are either all mindless zombies, or fully subservient to Fikrul and his zealous teachings

[flat jolt]

Fallen hive cabal at least has 1 friend. Oh and taken is tbc. But so far also 100% enemies

[sleek matrix]

Nah

[frank barn]

Fikrul has independant thoughts

[sleek matrix]

That's fikrul

[ember storm]

He very much doesn’t have a soul

[sleek matrix]

But even then he's still a scorn

He does have more will than a regular scorn

[flat jolt]

Fikrul is reanimated right? All scorns must have died once to be turned into scorns right?

[frank barn]

Scorn are just fallen but crispr gmo modification

[ember storm]

Fikrul as a proper individual died at Uldren’s feet

The moment he became scorn he completely lost who he actually was

[flat jolt]

Its a zombiefied process not evolution for the fallen right

[frank barn]

What house was hev

[ember storm]

He’s completely consumed with the idea of perfecting the Eliksni race

[frank barn]

When he was eliksni

[ember storm]

Exile but once kings I believe

[frank barn]

Oh

What if

Hmmm

[ember storm]

There is no chance for peace with Fikrul

[frank barn]

Scorn can only be made with dead fallen yes

[ember storm]

The meeting with crow in Act 1 was the only possible chance at it

[frank barn]

Bro crow sold so hard in that scene

[flat jolt]

Isit hive magic that resurrects them or a scientific process?

[ember storm]

Literally magic

[flat jolt]

Is the source simply dark ether?

[ember storm]

They don’t do science

[frank barn]

Its like ether stuff

[ember storm]

It’s ether infected with darkness

[frank barn]

Maybe

[ember storm]

It has nothing to do with the hive

[frank barn]

Wait a minute

Is there a way to unscornify

[ember storm]

Fikrul only came into being because Crow accidentally made an ahamkara wish

[flat jolt]

Cant be reversed or cured with a blast of light energy?

[ember storm]

No

[ember storm]

No

[frank barn]

“Light ether”

[ember storm]

They are literally rotted corpses

[frank barn]

Wait

They are like frankensteins monster

Oh

[ember storm]

Their cells are not undergoing division and replication and they don’t have proper life

[flat jolt]

I thought the last wish was to enter the pale heart

[ember storm]

They are literally zombies

[ember storm]

You know what the word last means right

Scorn have existed for years prior to that

I feel like it’s sorta self explanatory

[flat jolt]

Ah so all this was way before whats going on now

[frank barn]

When were they created? Was it during red war or after?

[flat jolt]

Crow in the very beginning wished to them i see

[ember storm]

Between taken king and red war

[frank barn]

Ok

[jagged badge]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/fanatic-part-ii#prince-uldren-sov

[ember storm]

Not crow, sorry

It was Uldren

I have become Amanda

[frank barn]

Ok what if

[jagged badge]

[frank barn]

We just dont let eliksni die

Boom no more scorn

[jagged badge]

Have you played this episode yet?

[frank barn]

Wait im dumb

Fikrul magicification process

What would happen to scorn if fikrul were to die?

[ember storm]

They’d still exist

[flat jolt]

Like the taken leaderless right

[jagged badge]

Fikrul would come back anyway

[frank barn]

scorn are like taken

[ember storm]

And all they’d need to do is infect normal ether with their currently existing dark ether

[ember storm]

Fikrul has followers subscribed to his teachings

They’d carry on without him

[flat jolt]

To take over if hes ever gone

[ember storm]

Their only goal is to convert all Eliksni to scorn

[flat jolt]

Fikrul did more preparation than the witness ngl

[ember storm]

They acted without Fikrul for years anyway

After Forsaken

Honestly Fikrul is keeping them from developing further at all

Of course there isn’t much development to be had, they’re all soulless monsters

But they’re all currently soulless monsters who have a particular religion which isn’t really great

[flat jolt]

Frankenstein can be upgraded given the right body part. Plus who knows what the magic that fuels them could do

[ember storm]

Doesn’t he die at the end of the book

[frank barn]

So our standings are rn
Eliksni- friend
Cabal- friend
Hive- Coexistence
Taken- no
Scorn- Enemy
Vex- archnemisis

Anyone im frogetting?

[flat jolt]

You just reminded me that theyre destiny manga, gotta read it today

[flat jolt]

Nah you got all 6 major enemy faction, in game at least

[ember storm]

I wouldn’t really narrow it down to this

[frank barn]

Do we have any standing with like the hive on the moon, the one that arent under savthun?

[ember storm]

Every hive except Luzaku is very much trying to kill us

[frank barn]

The non lucent ones

[ember storm]

Savathun is sending the lucent hive to the pale heart to exert her own control

[flat jolt]

But sava was proud of luzaku

[frank barn]

Did Luzaku just pop into existence like what is their story

[ember storm]

Because it reminded it of herself when she was younger

[frank barn]

Why are they friend

[flat jolt]

So i guess sava is partly with us?

[ember storm]

She isn’t genuinely happy about it

Savathun is actively trying to kill us constantly

The moment the witness died any semblance of a truce was gone

[frank barn]

Does she still owe us or not anymore after she helped kill witness

[ember storm]

She literally says “After this, I don’t owe you a thing”

[frank barn]

Yeah

[ember storm]

Lucent hive in the pale heart are trying to take control because Savathun ordered them to

[flat jolt]

Sava is being stupid. She died and came back, saw how the darkness lied to her. And still wants to be our enemy. So much for a witch queen of cunning

0 int

[ember storm]

Darkness did nothing

Darkness is a neutral force

The witness is what lied and the witness is dead

That doesn’t erase the billions of years the hive spent committing universal genocide

Savathun would not be a good person, with or without the Witness’ influence

Savathun only abandoned sword logic and her worm because it was a detriment to her

[frank barn]

Im confused about one thing though didnt we like turn sava worm into a gun so when we brought her back did she not have a worm?

[ember storm]

She saw nothing wrong with the actual act of killing entire civilizations for immortality

[ember storm]

Savathun’s worm was removed in season of the lost

Just afterward was Witch Queen where she got a ghost

[frank barn]

Didnt we make it into a gun?

[ember storm]

We put the worm into a life extension module that works like a gun

It has no connection to Savathun anymore, it hasn’t since we exorcised it

Savathun’s throne world looks the way it does because she transformed it into a physical location using the light

After her worm was removed and she died for the first time, her throne world was collapsing like it normally would’ve when the creator dies

[flat jolt]

So the final strong user of sword logic is xivu, sava has hive magic, fikrul is undying and dark ether and unknown resurrection magic, no one can Take. Eris can’t access sword logic anymore. Nine are useless and insignificant. Is that about it?

Is mercury and venus in a Taken state or we just have nothing to do there?

[ember storm]

Mercury and Io are still gone

[jagged badge]

Mercury’s Taken. Venus is just not important

[ember storm]

Nothing happened to Venus we just stopped going there personally

[frank barn]

And venus?

Oh

[ember storm]

Venus was never a D2 game space

You only see it in VoG now

[frank barn]

Lol did the sulfur volcanos get to us

[flat jolt]

And no one has Taken powers to return it back?

[ember storm]

No we literally just don’t go there

[frank barn]

oh

[ember storm]

It’s not like just having the power to take would make it work

[frank barn]

Wait so

[ember storm]

Savathun studied the power for an ungodly amount of time to figure out how to do it

[frank barn]

Why dont we go there though

[ember storm]

We can’t just “oh I can shoot blight out of my hands, now I can move planets”

[ember storm]

Why would we

[frank barn]

Exploration

[ember storm]

Why don’t we go to the Manhattan Nuclear Zone or Enceladus

[flat jolt]

Its a key and lock theory isit? Everyone has different key to different lock thats why witness and oryx has their own taken and cant take each others taken minions?

[ember storm]

We have other important things on the agenda

[ember storm]

You’d have to figure out where it is the witness even sent them to

It’s not like they’re just chilling in the ascendant plane

They’re just not there

[flat jolt]

Damn the more i learn the more i wish we have taken powers. So much potential. So strong.

[frank barn]

Also how did golden age humans even go to neptune

[ember storm]

Oryx just had his own taken because he go his own

[ember storm]

Well they weren’t really golden age and they didn’t do it well

But same way basically any sci fi story handles colonizing other planets

[flat jolt]

This was before the traveller came?

[ember storm]

Big ship with lots of passengers in cryo

[ember storm]

No

It goes modern day > golden age > collapse

Neomuna was founded just at the start of the collapse

[flat jolt]

Ah after

[ember storm]

Between Nezarec’s death and the witness personally showing up to fight the traveler

[frank barn]

Yeah but moon mars even something like europa makes sense

[ember storm]

Savathun killed nezarec and stole the veil which halted the invasion of the solar system for a bit

[flat jolt]

Im assuming during the golden age we went as far as pluto?

[frank barn]

But meptune

Is like

Made of gas

[ember storm]

Traveler terraformed everything

[jagged badge]

No

[ember storm]

How do you think Mercury was at all habitable

[frank barn]

Not juptier and saturn i guess

[flat jolt]

Jupiter rained diamonds i think

[ember storm]

Well it didn’t get to every place, so yeah

It was last active on Io before the black fleet came knocking

But the places we go to were generally all affected by the traveler

Besides Europa that’s just a frozen hellhole

[frank barn]

Really?

[ember storm]

You might think the moon was left untouched but 1 there’s normal gravity and 2 there’s definitely a breathable atmosphere

[jagged badge]

Titan and Europa are the furthest places Golden Age humanity touched I believe

[ember storm]

Eris and a normal ass earth dog were there

[flat jolt]

Uranus? Did humans go there?

Ah i see

[frank barn]

Maybe we didnt know neptune until lightfall

[ember storm]

No

Ships weren’t going anywhere in particular during the collapse, they were just trying to escape

Vast majority just died and ended up forming what we call the reef

[flat jolt]

Wait we space travelled due to the collapse? I thought during the golden age and all the new tech explorers wanted to chart the solar system

[ember storm]

Ishtar didn’t go to Neptune because they wanted to, they just got that far out before they were hit and had to make an emergency landing

[jagged badge]

In Season of the Seraph, the Hidden searched Neptune based on Osiris’ interpretation of Savathûn’s memories, but found nothing there

[ember storm]

The golden age was the age of human advancement

We were just starting to colonize the system as the collapse happened

[frank barn]

Next location: Triton

we may go there

[jagged badge]

It wasn’t until Lightfall we actually found Neomuna since the Witness exposed its location

[ember storm]

Colonies were already established on Venus Titan and Mars, with other locations being more like research outposts

You can see in the cosmodrome a bunch of colony ships that never got to launch

If people were able to, they tried boarding ships and running away

[jagged badge]

And we know what happened to the ones that did

[ember storm]

None of them really made it

[frank barn]

Did we ever meet any neomunians other than rohan and nimbus

[jagged badge]

Neomuni

And not physically

[frank barn]

Ah yes

[jagged badge]

We do meet several of them communicating to us from the CloudArk though

Like Quinn Laghari, the Archivist

She’s fun

[frank barn]

Could we ever enter the cloud ark?

[flat jolt]

Did the witness know about the darkness part hidden under neomuna?

[ember storm]

I mean sure but it would be incredibly detrimental

[ember storm]

The entire reason LF happens is because it wants to secure the Veil, yes

That’s what the plot of the dlc was

[frank barn]

Was the veil destroyed?

I dont remember

[ember storm]

No, it’s just there

[frank barn]

Ok

[ember storm]

Anyway, we’d be cryogenically freezing our body and uploading our consciousness to the mainframe that can’t willingly be deactivated

[frank barn]

Wait so are new neomuni ever born then?

[ember storm]

Only the Cloudstriders currently in charge have the ability to release the citizens from the cloudark, and you can’t just pick and choose

[ember storm]

It’s only a thing that happens when the city is under crisis

[flat jolt]

Did securing the veil grant him extra powers or something? Witness left it to go into the pale heart maybe the final shape was more important

[ember storm]

They function as an actually normal city otherwise

[ember storm]

The veil was there to make the final shape happen

[frank barn]

If im not mistaken he wanted to unite it with traveler to make final shape

[ember storm]

The witness used the veil to make the portal into the pale heart

[frank barn]

Tbh thanks witness

Very cool location u made

[ember storm]

It wouldn’t be cool without us

[frank barn]

Yeah

[flat jolt]

Ah i see. Fills alot of the gap now

[ember storm]

All the witness did was make the ugly statue areas

The pale heart formed itself out of our own experiences and memory

[jagged badge]

The Neomuni went into the CloudArk due to the Black Fleet returning to the system during Season of Arrivals

[frank barn]

Wait that was just in season of arivals?

[jagged badge]

Wdym

[frank barn]

I thought the neomuni were in the cloud ark before then

Or i would have assumed so

I wonder

[ember storm]

They only entered as a state of emergency

[frank barn]

Now that system is somewhat safe

[ember storm]

It’s their way of surviving

[ember storm]

The city itself is not

[frank barn]

Could traveler continue its terraforming

[jagged badge]

Considering how the patrol zone works, and the fact the city is still swarming with Shadow Legion

[ember storm]

The traveler is focused on purging the witness’ corruption out of itself

[frank barn]

Oh yeah

[ember storm]

There’s no guarantee it’ll ever actually be healed

[jagged badge]

The Traveler is heavily injured and expended

[ember storm]

It can’t do anything to the outside universe rn

Also there’s not really anything to do with Neptune at this point

[frank barn]

If it heals itself will the portal eventually close

[ember storm]

The city is subservient on the fact that it’s floating on a sea of diamond sand

[frank barn]

Lol

[jagged badge]

The fact that the Pale Heart needs to remain for gameplay reasons suggests that the Traveler is not healing like that within this game’s lifespan

[flat jolt]

How far has the books been written?

[jagged badge]

Huh?

[frank barn]

Next expansion will not be part of the light and dark saga right?

[jagged badge]

Correct

[frank barn]

Ok

Im wondering was forsaken a part of that saga it didnt really feel like it

[ember storm]

Everything from D1 vanilla to the final shape was the light and dark saga

[jagged badge]

Technically the whole of Destiny until now was about it, but Shadowkeep is where the focus on it and the buildup is really deemed to have started

[ember storm]

Forsaken’s campaign focused on our revenge trip but it also culminated in the revealing of the dreaming city, riven’s existence, and cementing Savathun as an active player

Also it got Mara Sov back into play

All pretty important for the story

[frank barn]

Yeaj

[jagged badge]

Wdym by this?

[flat jolt]

Erm

[jagged badge]

[flat jolt]

^

Destiny has mangas i know that but it also has a novel book series right or something like that?

[frank barn]

Ive never heard that before

That would be cool though physical books of lore

[flat jolt]

Then whats the light and dark saga about

[ember storm]

I’m talking about

[jagged badge]

Where are you getting any of that from?

[ember storm]

Frankenstein

The book

[frank barn]

Lol

[flat jolt]

Ah

[frank barn]

I just realized

Does this mean no more new subclasses

I think thats fair

[flat jolt]

Lucky number 7 bungie fav number

3 light 3 dark 1 prismatic

[frank barn]

Wait

Yeah we only have 2

[flat jolt]

Speculation ofc

[ember storm]

Considering the fact bungie did away with the split subclass menus and instead consolidated them into one

Leads me to believe there won’t be a third darkness subclass

[frank barn]

Wdym split subclass menues

[ember storm]

When stasis first released there was a toggle between seeing the Light and Darkness subclasses

[flat jolt]

Rip resonance

[ember storm]

Arc solar and void were in their own menu

[frank barn]

Oh

[ember storm]

Stasis was in the Darkness menu, alone

[frank barn]

Oh yeah

[ember storm]

When LF released, that menu went away

[flat jolt]

Everyone was hyping the antithesis of the light subclass

[ember storm]

They were all added to the same list

[flat jolt]

Arc has no partner now

[ember storm]

Solar and stasis aren’t directly tied

[frank barn]

What makes the others partners

[ember storm]

Void and strand is entirely debatable

I don’t really buy it

[flat jolt]

Solar stasis, void strand, speculation ofc

[ember storm]

Darkness is established to be focused on the mental

Light physical

[flat jolt]

Just theories made to fill in gaps

[ember storm]

There’s no deeper parallel meant to be made

[frank barn]

Is this saying solar is hot and stasis is cold

[flat jolt]

Ya smtg like that

[frank barn]

Ah ok

[flat jolt]

Ppl like to find connections and solve the puzzles

[frank barn]

Hmm

I wonder

Arc is lighting

Opposite of lightning

Thunder

Maybe a sound sublass

[ember storm]

Thunder is literally just the sound of lightning

[frank barn]

Like your super is just scream

[flat jolt]

Sound seems complimentary instead of opposing

[ember storm]

It’s the same thing happening up in the clouds

[frank barn]

I mean strand and void are both like the background of the universe

[ember storm]

Thunder just doesn’t escape the cloud

[frank barn]

So complimentary