📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

This was after

When she was already a Lightbearer with a ghost

[blazing wasp]

when we killed savathun in witch queen she already has a ghost

[ember storm]

Meaning she wasn’t properly dead

We killed her to stop her from sealing the traveler away in her throne world

[blazing wasp]

her ghost ran away after we killed savathun

and we secured her corpse

[errant tapir]

FAKKKK

[blazing wasp]

she was allowed to be resurrected in season of the witch

[errant tapir]

So we have not a single thing to intimidate her to give us the how to break the curse?

[ember storm]

By her account, she literally can’t

[errant tapir]

Even if we kill her again, she going to get resurrected again?

[ember storm]

She said that you’d need to control the taken to do so

[blazing wasp]

i mean we could kill-kill her, we have her ghost captive, but we dont know if that would do anything

[ember storm]

Which she doesn’t

[blazing wasp]

guardians are not wholly immortal

[ember storm]

Killing her just because wouldn’t really solve anything

[blazing wasp]

if the ghost dies, the guardian loses the light

and also no ghost to ressurct you

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cayde6-cringe-dies-from-cringe-cayde69-gif-25037974

[blazing wasp]

yea its how cayde died, he lost his ghost, then died shortly after

[errant tapir]

So we can threaten her to kill immaru?

[ember storm]

She gave us Immaru

[slim girder]

Wouldn't work

[ember storm]

As a token of good will

[errant tapir]

WHAT

[ember storm]

She still has an entire army full of Lightbearer hive at her disposal

[errant tapir]

Why wouldn't work?

[ember storm]

And a throne world remade in light

[blazing wasp]

we kinda cant try to bargin with savathun like that.

[ember storm]

She literally can’t help us with it anymore

It’s out of her hands

[errant tapir]

This is confusing

[ember storm]

There’s nothing that threatening her would do

We’d just be killing Immaru for no reason

[blazing wasp]

by design, savathun is literally the god of deciet and lies

[ember storm]

Savathun only showed up personally in FS because the entire literal universe is at stake

[blazing wasp]

shes d2's loki

[ember storm]

She plays the smart game

[blazing wasp]

not marvel loki, mind you.

[ember storm]

She never leaves herself open otherwise

[slim girder]

Because it solves nothing.
She has way too much information to warrant actually going after. She is extremely smart and plays a long game

[ember storm]

We probably wouldn’t see much of a difference even if we did kill Immaru

[blazing wasp]

everything savathun has done has been with her own interests in mind

[ember storm]

All that would do is immediately drive her to her most careful and cunning position than she’s ever been in before

Just look at Xivu

[blazing wasp]

and shes smart as fuck

[ember storm]

We cut her off from her throne world, but she’s been plotting ever since

Watching and waiting

[slim girder]

The reason she even sided with us was because "if we're all dead I won't get to take over so just this once I'll help"

[ember storm]

It didn’t directly lessen the threat

[slim girder]

As soon as the witness died she started moving in on the pale heart

[errant tapir]

If we kill immaru, savathun becomes vulnerable yes? Can't we take advantage of that?

[ember storm]

Killing Immaru wouldn’t directly impact Savathun’s threat level and it also wouldn’t help with the DC at all

It’s out of her hands

[ember storm]

She’s literally the god of cunning and lies

Do you think she’d leave herself open to any attack whatsoever

[slim girder]

She would have a plan for that

[ember storm]

She’d be more dangerous then

[errant tapir]

I heard saint beat the crap out of her

[ember storm]

Savathun isn’t a good antagonist because she can throw nova bombs now

[ember storm]

Because they both let it happen

[errant tapir]

HUH?

NOVA BOMB?

[ember storm]

Savathun literally didn’t care because Immaru just healed her again and again

[slim girder]

She's only miscalculated once in the witch queen campaign

[ember storm]

She’s a Lightbearer

She uses supers ingame

[slim girder]

She uses light

[ember storm]

All 3 light elements

She uses a version of blade barrage and stormtrance

[errant tapir]

Wadafak all 3?

MY GOD

[slim girder]

Have you played witch queen?

[ember storm]

Ghaul did the same thing

[errant tapir]

I didnt

[ember storm]

It’s not exactly new

[slim girder]

@errant tapir PLAY IT IT'S RIGHT THERE DUDE

[errant tapir]

yooo chill

I am lazy

[slim girder]

That will answer a lot of your questions

Like A LOT

[errant tapir]

Usually

[ember storm]

She also uses nova warp as a melee

[errant tapir]

When it comes to cutscenes or story

I usually skip them

[errant tapir]

HUH? A SUPER AS A MELEE?

[ember storm]

It’s her version of a boss stomp

It throws you away when you’re too close

[errant tapir]

I hate savathun

There's nothing we can do

[slim girder]

She also has a ward of dawn in her boss fight

Like an island sized one

[errant tapir]

HUH?

Titan bubble?

GOD DAMN

[slim girder]

I do think she's definitely a warlock at heart though. Nova bomb/warp, lightning strikes, solar swords.

Would make sense as well given her whole pursuit of knowledge

[sick yew]

I think she doesnt care about classes at all

Like Ghaul just use whatever

[slim girder]

True. I'm just speculating lol

[ember storm]

It is funny that he ended up using a cabal version of sunbreaker

[sick yew]

Wdym?

Wasnt his solar thing Daybreak?

[ember storm]

That’s his solar super

[sick yew]

Are you sure

[ember storm]

It’s cabal cleavers thrown like hammer of sol

He doesn’t use a sword

[sick yew]

But it had the sound of Daybreak

Cause for some reason that shit still echoes in my mind

[ember storm]

His ultimate form is radiance

He doesn’t use daybreak

[slim girder]

The thing I find the most funny is that he didn't even use that fancy pistol from the cutscene

[ember storm]

He did

He just spammed supers a lot

I was disappointing he just used a standard slug launcher

[blazing wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-snake-revolver-ocelot-engraving-gif-26456286

[dusty jolt]

So why was crota in a funny rock

[ember storm]

he was left cripped from a weakened state followed by no meaningful offerings of tribute from his followers, and had to resort to fleeing to his throne world to heal

as Eris got us to go and take out crota's armies and generals, his highest witches tried to go and rush his recovery process by funneling his essence into a large crystal to give him a quick boost

we caught up and disrupted the ritual, leaving him even further stranded in his throne world, giving him his famously hollow and skeletal raid appearance (D1 exclusive bc bungie was lazy in the reprise)

[dusty jolt]

Seems right thanks I just went back to d1 for a bit and was still confused

[lost abyss]

I think Calus had the most memorable weapon for a Cabal boss. Resonance cannon, that splits into cleavers.

[dull raft]

calus was a fun guy

[fossil rain]

I just realized that the Witness' last line, "I dont understand" could be considered a callback to one of the first things Aurash/Oryx learned as a kid: "If you dont understand something, it will probably kill you." Thought that was a cool theory that even after all this time, the Darkness finds itself failing to understand the Light and consequently dies as a result.

I like to think that what they dont understand is that life and death are intimately connected, and bound to the fundemental state of the universe: change. The Darkness, or rather its users like the Witness and Oryx, are too fixated on creating some endstate of perfection, when the actual nature of the universe is to change. The Light is the force of change, typically in the form of life which cannot be static by nature, and thus the force of the natural universe. Just my sleepy brain yapping

[trim grotto]

I think the main point of the line was the change from "we" to "I" as it died

[fossil rain]

Yeah that definitely got me emotional. Like, that was huge

Im just saying that the lack of understanding was a nice touch, assuming it was a callback

if not, i at least enjoy thinking that something that someone the Witness manipulated into being a pawn, knew that bit of knowledge long before the Witness figured it out as it died

again, im yappers

[worldly river]

There's long been an idea that Savathun parallels Warlocks, Xivu Arath Titans, and Oryx Hunters

I don't know what if any of that is intended or like
What point it would serve

But it's a thing I've heard discussed before

[slim girder]

Well we've seen hive guardians being labelled as the different classes. I wouldn't be surprised if the hive gods also paralleled this even if oyrx and xivu didn't wield light

Knights are titans
Acolytes are hunters
Wizards are warlocks.

The classes are part of destiny's foundation so I can see other things trying to put a spin on it.

[errant tapir]

Day 5 of asking fun facts

[blazing wasp]

have we mentioned the rabbit embryo yet

[trim grotto]

Yes

Uuh
Hawthorne is the adoptive daughter of Devrim and his partner Marc

[covert stone]

Can anyone explain why Skolas being ressed infinitely by Fikrul really bad? All I know is that he's called the Kell of Kells

Aside from an infinitely ressable undead army of Scorn

[slim girder]

Skolas is a self proclaimed kell of kells so any eliksni might see him and think that he is worth following. Even though obviously skolas probably knows nothing about himself and only knows what fikrul tells him.

Not to mention Skolas is just very dangerous in general in terms of eliksni we have fought over the years.

[ember storm]

Assuming Skolas has even retained a sense of self

I’d argue it’s more so the indirect aspect of Fikrul proving that even a previous “Kell of Kells” is nothing more than another puppet to add to his army

[slim girder]

My theory is fikrul will use the image of skolas to bring eliksni to his cause of rebirthing the eliksni as scorn with the echo.

Since he's capable of doing that to living eliksni now

Enough convincing and manipulation would definitely make some eliksni give themselves to fikrul

[tropic spindle]

Is there a lore reason why guardians can’t use any sword? Like, why can’t a hunter use crown splitter or a titan use quick fang?

[blazing wasp]

No, it's a gameplay thing

[ember storm]

It is illegal and punishable by death (via crucible comp)

[slim girder]

Nothing stopping you from using an aggressive frame ergo sum though.

[blazing wasp]

wrong

i am

[dapper moss]

wow i've been doing the fieldworks for this act

mithrax is in a real bad state huh

[analog torrent]

The butchering of Viktor, former Machine Herald, got me thinking
Has anyone in d2 lore gotten retconned like he did? Entire concept swap?

[dim minnow]

I think Eramis' name was supposed to be different

[ember storm]

they pulled the name off the destinypedia page of a character who didn't exist

someone misheard the word "baroness" when variks talked about a shipstealer and so the page said Eramis

[lost abyss]

Eramis' name being a mistake is really funny

[jagged badge]

A good mistake because Eramis is far better than Veekris

[lost abyss]

Veekris yucky

[errant tapir]

oh....

who is devrim?

Day 6 of asking fun facts

[errant tapir]

that is the 1st weird shit i've gone through asking that

and u know who gave me the info?

It was Eris

on another part of fucked up, das fucked up

[dim minnow]

gentleman sniper

EDZ destination vendor

[next bobcat]

Please someone explain vesper lore I’m clueless even after completing the dungeon like 4 times

[dim minnow]

ok

so, let's start with Vesper Station

[slim elk]

Random alien space bat hijacks Fallen Exo, space station and other Fallen to potentially build paracausal anomaly as a communication device

[dim minnow]

Vesper Station was a sister space station in Europa's orbit to the Morningstar which was crashed onto Europa's surface during the Deep Stone Crypt raid

[next bobcat]

Mmmhmmm

[dim minnow]

during the Morningstar's descent, it collided with Vesper station as evident when Vesper Central points out that there are pieces of the Morningstar in Vesper's hull

during the Golden Age, Vesper Station was made by Clovis Bray to house some of his more secretive/dangerous experments

one of note being his attempt to make an AI with vex tech to infiltrate the Vex network with

[next bobcat]

Like… all of them?

[dim minnow]

we don't really have the full scope of what went on in Vesper Station yet other than that specific experiment

[next bobcat]

Ok

[dim minnow]

but Clovis had planned on havign Vesper Station crash on Europa at some point to hide what went on there

he even left Vesper Central's ability to protect the crew of the station neutured

however, the Collapse likely ensured the station's safety for the time being

[next bobcat]

So vesper central is the AI we hear in the dungeon right?

[dim minnow]

yes, though we would find out her real name when we manage to release the locks Clovis left on her

more on that later

so time passes and the Morningstar collides with Vesper station which is likely when a surviving Atraks-1 copy would end up on the station

you played through DSC right?

[next bobcat]

Kinda I get the story

Go on

[dim minnow]

so you know who Atraks-1 is right?

[next bobcat]

Yeah a fallen exo thing

[dim minnow]

ok good

[next bobcat]

Not familiar with the lore of the copying tho

[dim minnow]

so the surviving Atraks-1 copy ended up on Vesper station

[next bobcat]

Are they just more exo frames with her conciousness?

[dim minnow]

she can just make copies of herself

not much is specified

[next bobcat]

W

[dim minnow]

according to some of the Guardians who canonically fought her, they believed that at least one copy of her escaped the fight

which is where we assume the copy taken by the corruption came from

[next bobcat]

So puppeteer isn’t original atraks we killed her 100% right?

[dim minnow]

anyways, to the surviving copy, now taken over by the "corruption" is stalking Vesper station

[dim minnow]

yeah I'd say Atraks is dead

the corruption likely saw to that anyway

[next bobcat]

Cool cool so the corruption is from the big round thingy - didn’t vesper central say it was arc energy?

[dim minnow]

now, onto why the Fallen were there

[dim minnow]

I'll touch on the corruption soon

so, the Fallen we see in Vesper's Host were House Salvation defectors who stole a Ketch and went there to hide and start a new life

however, the Puppeteer started to claim them one by one

possessing their minds and making them act as an additional "limb" of its conciousness

kind of like a proper hive mind

[next bobcat]

Bro the fallen can’t catch a break💀

[sick yew]

Who can these days

[dim minnow]

the armor for the dungeon tells a story from a Fallen mechanic's point of view of what happened

[sick yew]

Also Dova do we know if the Puppeteer even is Atraks herself and not just something else using her body?

[dim minnow]

but yeah, the Fallen we fight in it are all enslaved to the corruption, which as Vesper Central states, is the center of it

[dim minnow]

given what is described of the other Fallen that the puppeteer assimilates, I would assume that thing isn't Atraks anymore

[next bobcat]

He mentioned it’s a copy also sorry I didn’t mean to skull react lmao misclick

[sick yew]

Well Atraks had many copies in gameplay at least

But that's still not really her

[dim minnow]

we don't even know which one was the original anyways

doesn't matter now

now then, after assimilating all of the Fallen on Vesper Station, the Puppeteer started to command them to build the Anomaly

[next bobcat]

My theory is that it’s like mitosis so there’s technically no original - no copies just duplicates

[dim minnow]

there still had to be one original body

[next bobcat]

Wait doesn’t the corruption come from the anomaly? What’s its source?

[dim minnow]

from what I can gather, the Puppeteer is the source of the corruption

and I can infer that the missing Vex cube seen as you enter the station and head to the first encounter is likely a major component the Puppeteer used to make the anomaly

hence why the Anomaly could have Vex fuckery involved with it

[dim minnow]

however, we don't know what definitively the corruption comes from

[next bobcat]

Ok so the anomaly isn’t the corruption

[dim minnow]

and the orange arc energy the Puppeteer is funneling into the Anomaly is another mystery

I think it could be a mix of Arc and Solar

[dim minnow]

the Puppeteer seems to be trying to send a message through it which it succeeds at

I think I've covered mainly what went on before the dungeon

now I can start on the dungeon itself

so, Spider sent an associate of his to investigate Vesper Station to see what he can get out of it, however, something happened to her and Spider knows it must be something bad, so he opts to send us in there to figure it out

[next bobcat]

I think it’s darkness infused arc hence the orange colouration

Or maybe it has consensus role

[dim minnow]

the enrgy leaves wells of fire after impact though

[next bobcat]

Let me see

[dim minnow]

so we go into the dungeon, we power Vesper Central back up, we destroy that Servitor amalgamation, then we kill the Puppeteer, but not before it sends a message through the Anomaly

[next bobcat]

That sound bad

Knowing Clovis connections it’s vex probably

[dim minnow]

Spider is interested by our findings and sends more of his lackeys to try and salvage what valuables they can from the station while SPider has us try and "smooth-talk Vesper Central" to try and keep her on good terms with Spider

over the course of the Rogue Network quest, we unlock more of the station's hidden logs and secrets

eventually, we unlock enough access to the station that Spider is satisfied and thanks us for our service

however, we were not finished, as we started unlocking even more access to Vesper station until we reached a secret room where Vesper Central herself could not see into

after a lengthy and complex puzzle, we finally release the locks Clovis had put on Vesper Central long ago allowing her to be restored to her full self, Astraea

[next bobcat]

Ok is this like a Rasputin/soteria situation?

[dim minnow]

with this, she locks SPider and his boys out of her systems and tells them to fuck off while thanking us for our help

Vesper Central actually finds out she had sister AIs that Clovis hid from her

Soteria was one of them

[next bobcat]

Ooooh

[dim minnow]

and we did get a response back from the anomaly not long later

though we don't really know what it means

we are under the impression that the message was from other humans

[next bobcat]

I think warminds like me I got ice breaker and hierarchy of needs within 2 weeks of each other

[dim minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjuURYl-y4Y

[sick yew]

You think the Anomaly will be the setup for Frontiers?

[dim minnow]

Bungie has been using dungeons to set up future plot points

[sick yew]

Spire

[dim minnow]

Duality was for Calus and Witness stuff

Spire was for Neomuna and Soteria stuff

Ghosts of the Deep is 100% about Heresy

Warlord's Ruin was on Fikrul

[next bobcat]

Shattered throne for witch queen am I grasping straws here

[dim minnow]

aka Revenant

[sick yew]

Isn't that one a bit of a stretch?

[dim minnow]

this trend didn't really start until after Witch Queen

[dim minnow]

we know for a fact Fikrul is related to that dungeon directly

[next bobcat]

The one time I thought I could lore good

[dim minnow]

the Scorn we were tracking that led us to the keep were Fikrul's

[dim minnow]

I mean, Prophecy as a dungeon was meant to foreshadow some stuff

[sick yew]

How do we know who they belong to

[next bobcat]

We have revenant expansion, we’re getting behemoth, what’s your guys bets on getting shadebinder expansion

[dim minnow]

for starters, the Scorn bosses we fight in the dungeon (the first encounter boss and the ones that appear in the other encounters) are literally called "Knights of Fikrul"

and the lore for that dungeon's exotic literally states that Fikrul sent them to the keep so they can recruit the unclaimed Scorn that were there as a result of Hefnd's curse

[sick yew]

I see

[dim minnow]

Petra trying to gaslight Crow into thinking Fikrul was not involved there was just a red herring

[next bobcat]

You still hate Petra?

Or was that another guy

Someone hated Petra here

[errant tapir]

Is crow doing a good job replacing Cayde?

Big 3 now is ikora zavala and crow yes?

[next bobcat]

Yeah. Crow has taken over ikora as the vanguard with the longest hair

[sick yew]

He's not replacing Cayde really
Cayde has been dead for so long that it'd make more sense to say he filled the role

[errant tapir]

gah damn

Fuck

[sick yew]

But he's indeed trying his best

[errant tapir]

I forgot zavalla is bald

Oh crow trying to fill the shoes

[next bobcat]

And exos have no hair

[errant tapir]

We can trust crow now?

How about mara?

[trim grotto]

Literally always could

Crow has never done us wrong except for when he made his own personal mistakes

Uldren was the one who caused the major problems

[next bobcat]

Wait why didn’t crow tell Fikrul to go attack one of our enemies and hold off on the fallen?

[errant tapir]

The episode explains

Now he doesn't trust crow anymore

[trim grotto]

Because Fikrul and Uldren had a grudge against the Eliksni, and Fikrul just got magic that allows him control. Simple simple.

[errant tapir]

Because he knew he was revived and become another man

Now he is just another soul occupying that body

[trim grotto]

Well. Same "soul", one could argue.

Nature and nurture are not opposites, but two paths working in tandem.

Crow and Uldren are the same person at the core, but their experiences shaped them into different people.

[next bobcat]

Uldren was also being strongly manipulated by an ahamkara. It could’ve permanently altered his psychology, as well as being not super friendly beforehand.

[dim minnow]

that was me

[next bobcat]

Ok

[trim grotto]

A not insignificant part of that was also related to the Black Garden.

[next bobcat]

Whatever happened to that bionicle fellow?

[trim grotto]

Banned.

[next bobcat]

I try

[trim grotto]

You may find them in the Ishtar Collective if you so desire

[dim minnow]

to be clear, Mael's saying that Bioliclr was banned

[next bobcat]

Oh damn why?

[dim minnow]

no idea

[trim grotto]

Argued a lot. It happened quite some time ago.

[dim minnow]

I don't really pay attention to this stuff

[errant tapir]

Black garden?

What's that?

[dim minnow]

alternate reality

said to be the birthplace of the Vex

[errant tapir]

Oooo

Oh....

Black heart?

[dim minnow]

a place that grows both forward and backward in time

[next bobcat]

Isn’t that the place were the winnower and gardener played the game?

[errant tapir]

I just saw some yt shorts about it I think

[dim minnow]

it could be, given that we go to the stump of silver wings in GoS

[errant tapir]

Vex are creating some sort of weapon called the black heart but we killed it

It got revived again and we kill it again

[dim minnow]

ah there it is, the ever standing stump

[errant tapir]

GoS?

[trim grotto]

It takes place within the Black Garden.

"Garden" of Salvation.

[dim minnow]

the Black Heart was given to them by the Witness (or the seeds to start making it were)

[errant tapir]

Oh huh

[dim minnow]

well actually, I think the Witness left it there and the Vex found it there

[errant tapir]

So.... Black garden is inside GoS?

[dim minnow]

Garden of Salvation?

yes

[errant tapir]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Other way around.

[errant tapir]

huh

[trim grotto]

The Garden of Salvation raid takes place within the realm of the Black Garden

[errant tapir]

Oh.....

Okay interesting

Can u give me like a story on how do we end up with The GoS raid?

[dim minnow]

hmmm

[errant tapir]

What did the vex horribly do that we need to shut it down ASAP

[trim grotto]

Do Shadowkeep. The orb sends us to the Black Garden.

[dim minnow]

Shadowkeep campaign ends with us getting a shperical relic that tells us to go in there

[trim grotto]

Nothing. It was curiosity, following a message from the artifact from the campaign.

[dim minnow]

well there was the Sol Inherent

[trim grotto]

Which we did not know about at the time

Anyway have fun I gotta go for a bit

[dim minnow]

who might have been the Sol Divisive's attempt at replacing the fallen Black Heart

[errant tapir]

Okay

I know last wish and GoS now

Hmmm

How about crota?

[dim minnow]

after we completed GoS, the Sol Divisive were pissed and started to attack the Moon, which we had to stop

[errant tapir]

Did crota do something bad so we need to stop him?

What is this "Sol"?

I've heard a bunch but never understand it

[dim minnow]

a long time prior to our story, an army of Guardians tried storming the Moon to retake it from the Hive

[dim minnow]

Sol refers to the Solar System

Sol Inherent are what the two bosses of Garden of Salvtion are referred to as

[errant tapir]

Ok gotcha I'll have another question

But u can continue the story of crota's end dovadah

[dim minnow]

Sol Divisive are the subcollective of Vex who worshipped the Black Garden's Heart and served the Witness

[dim minnow]

so this battle would be known as the Great Disaster because Crota and his knights slew thousands of guardians

including legendary titan Wei Ning

as a result, Wei's lover, Eriana-3, would form a fireteam to try and take out Crota, which failed

Eris Morn was one of the member of this fireteam

and at somepoint, Crota would be forced to hibernate due to a pretty ridiculous incident (not sure if I already told you about it)

meanwhile Eris Morn would eventually escape from the Hellmouth after the failed attempt on Crota's life and would start plotting her revenge on Crota

eventually, Crota's armies would start awakening as they herald their master's return

we cut our way through Crota's disciples and prevented them from conducting the wakening ritual that would have seen his return to our world

but that would not be enough, we had to put him down for good to ensure he would haunt us no longer, so we went down into the Dark Below where we faced what the Hive called a god

there, we extinguished the Eater of Hope once and for all

Eater of Hope being another name for Crota

who was referred to as a Hive God

[errant tapir]

Hmm?

So there are 4 hive God?

Big 3 + crota?

[dim minnow]

anyways, the reasons for us killing Crota amount to:

1. He is Hive
2. He is powerful
3. He was trying to come back and screw us over some more
4. Eris told us to

[dim minnow]

yeah, but Crota was merely the lowest on their pantheon

since he was Oryx's son

there's also another Hive god if you count Eris Morn's stunt during Season of the Witch

[errant tapir]

Why does crota haunt us?

What is his power?

[dim minnow]

because of the Great Disaster

where thousands of Guardians fell to him and his swordbearers

who wield Ascendant blades that can drain the Light from Guardians

[errant tapir]

oh.....

Yeah I read that

So we kill him because we are fearful?

[dim minnow]

sort of as an act of vengeance of Eris Morn's behalf and to ensure he doesn't threaten us again

but I do believe that Crota managed something that not even his father did, and that was make Guardians as a whle fear him

the Witness I think managed this too, but that was because it was the Witness

and besides, the Witness ended up fearing us in the end

[errant tapir]

Is eris a human?

[dim minnow]

yes

[errant tapir]

But but

She has 3 green glowing eyes

[dim minnow]

she was a Guardian but lost her Light after her attempt to kill Crota with her fireteam failed

[dim minnow]

she lost her normal ones as a price for an Ahamkara wish

then she stole some new ones

[errant tapir]

WHAT

What did she wish for?

[dim minnow]

I think she said she stole them from an Acolyte

[dim minnow]

to know how to escape from the Hellmouth

she lost her eyes, but the way out became clear to her

to clarify, that "rock" she is holding is an Ahamkara bone

[errant tapir]

Oh so that's why

I thought she wished for in the air

Lmao

[errant tapir]

Huh? Two bosses? The huge minotaur and the huge hydra thingy?

Something something mind

[dim minnow]

Harpy, not hydra

Consecrated and Sanctified minds

[errant tapir]

Oh

[dim minnow]

info we have on them is very limited and pure speculation at this point

[errant tapir]

How did oryx create crota?

Is it from like a stone where he uses his power to gift a new born?

[dim minnow]

he had a mate who gave birth to him

no we do not know anything about this mate

[errant tapir]

GAH DAMN

So he reproduces

Awful

[errant tapir]

Is it the crystal thing?

[dim minnow]

what crystal?

[dim minnow]

the Soul of Crota from the Dark Below campaign?

ah that

[errant tapir]

Yeah d1

[empty fern]

hi hi~

[dim minnow]

that was the main vessel for Crota in the wakening ritual

destroying it prevented Crota from returning to our world

[errant tapir]

Why did crota force to hibernate?

[dim minnow]

did I already answer this to you or was it some one else?

[errant tapir]

I forgot lol

Maybe yes maybe no

[empty fern]

Crota die

[dim minnow]

no I did not

ok, so funny story

a Knight of Oryx and a Knight of Xivu Arath meet each other on a bridge and are in each other's way

they refuse to let the other pass so they fight each other, but the fight is a draw so they just argue over which Hive god they worshipped is better

[empty fern]

Oh god it’s this again

[dim minnow]

however, they could not convicne the other, so they did the most reasonalbe way of solving the issue

[next bobcat]

Killed each other

[dim minnow]

they both committed misadventure together

[next bobcat]

Close enough

[dim minnow]

as a result, this caused a small tribute loss that was just enough to cause a Knight of Crota to lose a very crucial duel with another Knight of Xivu Arath

the loss of territory and tribute made Crota decide to hibernate in order to make up for his losses

which is probably what bought us enough time to make a plan to take him out for good

[next bobcat]

Wait but Xivu would’ve gained tribute right? Who lost tribute?

[dim minnow]

since Oryx is tied to Crota, I think that is why the knight of Crota lost

[errant tapir]

Hmm?

[errant tapir]

So... There is a 2nd duel?

Knight of crota vs knight of Xivu? Again?

[dim minnow]

nono

there was a disagreement between a knight of Oryx and a Knight of Xivu Arath

which caused a Kight of Crota to lose a duel with a different Knight of Xivu Arath

[errant tapir]

Ok....

Where is savathun as of now?

Pale heart?

[dim minnow]

probably

trying to find out some secrets about Light and Dark

[errant tapir]

ISTG the longer we wait the more dangerous she become

I just wanna kill immaru and send saint to find her and beat the crap out of her

Before she learns transcendence

God knows what she'll do if she finds out

[next bobcat]

Ah

[next bobcat]

I would say we have bigger fish to fry but we kinda don’t

We could just keep immaru contained until we need savathun

[errant tapir]

She is loki

Even if we need her, she'd be the last option

[hollow fern]

Who are the old gods in the aspects child of the old gods

[trim grotto]

We have no idea.

[slim girder]

Nothing is known. We don't really know much about the void in general.

If things can live inside it or anything

[hollow fern]

Oh I thought we did

[trim grotto]

We've simply never really heard of them

[errant tapir]

Day 6 of asking fun facts

hit me with them freaky sh1ts

and yes

i have been told rabbit embryo

weird af

[heady gyro]

So is the white part of our health armour or like mystical shields

Or is it just health in general

[ember storm]

Probably just the light giving us innate damage resistance

We do that to our armor and our weapons to give an extra punch

We could use the same city issue weapons redjacks use, but it apparently takes 10 of those just to kill one hive knight

And before anyone asks, no, it’s not just a gameplay mechanic

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny-crow-amanda-holiday-ratio-gif-27636579

It’s seen on crow during his epic beefy scene

[blazing wasp]

I find it really funny watching this again, Amanda has plenty of time to recognise that as not cabal

[ember storm]

I mean, Psions sneaking around trying to take potshots was pretty common at the time

He looks pretty alien here

[heady gyro]

Amanda was able to down crow lightless with the chaperone so i wouldnt say light-boosting is everything, not to mention during the red war with our bare bones amount of light our broken weapons still did damage fine

[ember storm]

It’s chaperone

[heady gyro]

But for damage resistance yea i can see that, plus our armour

[ember storm]

A slug shot right to the head or heart will kill guardians no matter what

The light just adds a bit extra damage resist

You can visually see it breaks through crow’s

[heady gyro]

Yea that makes sense

[ember storm]

The point is that hive knights are literally bred for battle

Their armor is part of their chitin, it’s their skin

[heady gyro]

But i still find it hard to imagine city standard weapons are that weak

[ember storm]

Without any extra punch, they’re tough cookies to break

Redjacks have issue, guardians do not

[blazing wasp]

Have you seen how big hand canons are? That caliber is necessary in the d2 universe

[heady gyro]

So are the city weapons just jackshit?

[ember storm]

No

[blazing wasp]

It's more a matter of the weapon holder being a lot more limited.

[ember storm]

The point is that a hive knight is strong

They’re literally inherently infused with the power of darkness

They are tough

[blazing wasp]

Guardians are powerful and so are knights

[ember storm]

Redjacks are basically just moving scarecrows, they’re that brittle

[heady gyro]

Does that mean that during the red war we still had enough to boost our weapons?

[ember storm]

Arcite is notable because he’s one of the only ones that’s survived a number of battles

[ember storm]

We did

None of the other characters did

That’s why Zavala struggled with one legionary

[blazing wasp]

Redjacks are generally just good due to numbers, and for support

[ember storm]

And yknow Cayde got an arm shot off

His armor would be doing its job better if he had light

[blazing wasp]

He almost died, in fact

[heady gyro]

Us specifically? Shouldnt we have been affected the same even if we did get visions

[ember storm]

Specifically us

We literally got the light back in particular

Everyone else was lightless and mortal

[heady gyro]

True, but we didnt get our light back until we touched the shard, shouldnt we have been on the same level as the rest?

[ember storm]

They had no extra buffs or abilities whatsoever

[ember storm]

We were

All we did was kill like 3 groups of enemies beforehand

Then we get our light back and kill an entire small army of fallen

We literally failed a parkour jump and got knocked out from the fall prior to this

We were not at our best

[heady gyro]

Yea that makes sense

[blazing wasp]

We met very little resistance before regaining our light

[ember storm]

I’m pretty sure it was just one legionary and some war beasts

Then dregs and wretches

[heady gyro]

For a regular guy that's still heavy work

[blazing wasp]

Weve got experience under our belt handling weapons

And handling enemies in general

[heady gyro]

That's true yea

[blazing wasp]

Our guardian does not do these grand feats through sheer power alone

In fact, they never do.

Not once have we beaten a significantly powerful enemy through sheer strength alone

[blazing wasp]

Right, except rice.

[heady gyro]

Elaborate

[blazing wasp]

Every raid boss and such we've beaten, we've used a variety of means to beat them thats not just "we strong we kill bad guy"

We've generally fought dirty, empowered ourselves using their power, weakened them, or used other external methods

[heady gyro]

Oh that's true

[blazing wasp]

We basically used magic nukes to kill oryx after almost starving him to death

[ember storm]

They were his nukes also

[heady gyro]

We're kinda like rats

Very trigger happy

[ember storm]

I prefer the term vulture

[heady gyro]

Rats

[ember storm]

It’s more threatening that way

[heady gyro]

Crows?

[blazing wasp]

We're good at fighting dirty, to the point it's a genuine skill

[heady gyro]

We mob bigger guys and take scraps

[blazing wasp]

God slaying dirty fighting

[ember storm]

That’s basically how Zeus did it

[heady gyro]

Actually one thing that still bugs me tho is how weak the city weapons are compared to other weapons. Like i know hive knights are tough but like

[ember storm]

The point isn’t the weapon

It’s the red jack

And the fact that it’s a knight

Empowered with darkness

The math is there

[heady gyro]

Oh are redhacks just that weak

[ember storm]

Enemy is paracausal and thus has strength

Redjacks do not have any power

They are weaker

[heady gyro]

They get crumbled with a single bitchslap

[ember storm]

We are paracausal and can use that same weapon

We’re on equal playing field with the knight

[heady gyro]

Ok that makes sense, what makes arcite so special tho?

[ember storm]

He just managed to survive all of his battles and thus his ai advanced further than any other redjack would be able to otherwise

He actually kind of has a form of ptsd

He has to constantly remind himself that he’s not in a situation where he needs to shoot things

Also Shaxx sends him out to threaten people sometimes

[heady gyro]

He's kinda like chappy if you've seen that movie

[heady gyro]

I kinda like that actually

Oh one more thing, is the white part on our health bar the light shield or is it our health in general?. If it is just the light shield, is the red part our true healthbar or just our critical state?

[frosty belfry]

what is fundamental osmium lorefully

[jagged badge]

I don’t think much is really known tbh

Its name owes to the Hive’s homeworld of Fundament, and the Osmium Court

[dim minnow]

Osmium is a metal used commonly by the Hive

[jagged badge]

Ah

[dim minnow]

Fundamental Osmium is Osmium that specficially originated from Fundament which seems to indicate a bit of nostalgia from Savathun

I could have sworn there was some reference to Osmium's properties in TTK lore

like an item description

ok nvm, I was thinking of Hadium

[empty fern]

Helium?

[slim girder]

There is a lore tab about it in the osmiomancy gloves. It requires a supernova to forge and resonate with the taken for some reason. The osmium was from the dreadnought

[dim minnow]

no, Hadium

[dim minnow]

yeah, I saw that but forgot to mention it

thanks for putting it out there

[empty fern]

Still remember a npc tower dialogue “smuggling worm spores”
One of the resources from the dreadnaught

[dim minnow]

Hadium is a reactive metal that stores energy it is exposed to

[slim girder]

Osmium might be a byproduct of the taking process. Considering it resonates with them.

Taking would be that "divine intervention"

[dim minnow]

Osmium was from Fundament though

[empty fern]

We settled on taking being oryx transporting people to the witness right?

[dim minnow]

before Oryx became the Taken King

[dim minnow]

probably not

given... recent info

[empty fern]

Fuck

[dim minnow]

let's just say that Grimoire anthologys are good again

[empty fern]

OOOO

[slim girder]

We don't know what happened to fundament iirc so maybe that "supernova" is what happened and that made osmium out of the planet

[empty fern]

What if taking is the “chemical” reaction of hedium and pyramid resonance

[slim girder]

Taking is reforming matter in a self contained reality

Osmiomancy gloves are actually a really good read imo

[analog torrent]

Clickbait thumbnail
What lore was actually released?

[dim minnow]

Grimoire anthology volume 7

it has actual exclusive entries this time

on Gardener and Winnower too

[analog torrent]

holy shit

[dim minnow]

you were looking at this thinking "what is it this time" only to be like:

also, Winnower is real ultra confirmed now

[dapper moss]

is there any lore reason as to why the witness looks like a cat

[trim grotto]

the heck kinda cats you seen

[dapper moss]

big eye

nose similar

[dapper moss]

THE KITNESS

[errant tapir]

No

HE IS A MONSTER

EVEN BATMAN CANNOT TURN ME TO LOVE WITNESS

As he is wrecking my bones

[lost abyss]

Mew are unworthy of meowvation

[steady radish]

I have a question related to the traveler

If the traveler leaves humanity for another race would current guardians lose their light?

Also would humanity be able to turn to darkness abilities like strand, stasis or even hive magic to have something similar to the light?

[dim minnow]

1. no, at least I don't think it works like that
2. Anyone can use Darkness abilities

[trim grotto]

The first question? We actually aren't totally sure. However, I would assume we would keep our Light so long as the Ghosts remain with us.

Secondly: Yes.

[dim minnow]

we already have Lightless using Darkness

[trim grotto]

Like Vuvuzela

Or Osusris

[dim minnow]

like Elsie using Stasis and Osiris using Strand

[steady radish]

Then why not start training or having additional humans or some of the allied cabal using such abilities to help defend the tower or humanity?

I have always felt like guardians have had some numbers and also its good to have a back up plan in case guardians temporarily lose their light like in the campaign

[trim grotto]

There's a few reasons.

Firstly, Darkness is very very dangerous. We ourselves died multiple times mastering Strand.

[steady radish]

Awh yes that's right

[trim grotto]

Eramis didn't freeze over by coincidence, she froze over because she lost emotional control.

Thus, lost control of Stasis.

[dim minnow]

Light can't be wielded by just anyone, but its relatively easy to control
Darkness can be used by anyone, but is pretty demanding to wield properly

the fact that Stasis can corrupt you if you lose control really reminds me of the Force from Star Wars

in fact, Darkness abilities as a whole seem to resemble the Force quite a bit

[steady radish]

Exo's would be the perfect race to use it then, since they can be rebooted?

[steady radish]

Hmmm

[dim minnow]

eh

we don't really have the means to reboot them like that

[trim grotto]

Firstly that would mean the total wipe of ones episodic memory

[dim minnow]

and rebooting is kinda a memory wipe

[trim grotto]

Secondly it would probably destroy the body regardless

[dim minnow]

and also too many resets has a side effect

[trim grotto]

However, on this topic
https://youtu.be/2pm4P9RTktY?si=U2V3qWx5TzYKaTnx

[steady radish]

Ahh I see

Hmmm

[trim grotto]

Saint-14: He neglected to mention that. It is... oddly humble of him not to brag. It is good to see everyone is growing. ```

[steady radish]

Damn I thought darkness abilities would be viable

[trim grotto]

It can be. But it shouldn't be provided to everyone.

It takes control and patience.

[dim minnow]

and Stasis still seems to be corruptive (not because of the Witness, but because of the emotions of its own users)

kind of like the Dark Side of the Force

[steady radish]

Well if guardians did lose their light at least we would have darkness abilities

[errant tapir]

how about strand?

[dim minnow]

yeah

[errant tapir]

does strand do that to you too?

[trim grotto]

This is true. Osiris and Zavala are key examples.

[dim minnow]

Strand not really

it's more about letting yourself flow freely

and it allow you to see the intent and next actions of others

much like a Jedi's precognitive ability

[steady radish]

Ahhh

[errant tapir]

Do we know the origin of tormenter?

[steady radish]

That's makes sense

[dim minnow]

but if you try to hold on tightly, it will backfire on you

[trim grotto]

You're really enjoying the Star Wars comparisons today

[dim minnow]

surely you see it too

Darkness = The Force

[steady radish]

Light, dark

It makes sense to me

[dim minnow]

they seem to come from Nezarec

maybe a sort of imprint or cloning sort

[steady radish]

I wonder if we will get another darkness ability

[errant tapir]

oh yeah

[trim grotto]

As far as we know, the Tormentors are... like clones. Beings bred from Nezarec's genetic stock.

[errant tapir]

i see him in RoN

[errant tapir]

who did that?

[trim grotto]

Smokestack Face

[errant tapir]

why did it become cloning?

[trim grotto]

The Witness

[errant tapir]

Gah damn

[trim grotto]

Nezarec was the Witness's Disciple. Nezarec lead the Black Fleet during the Collapse of Humanity's Golden Age. He was a valuable and powerful asset.

[steady radish]

Also thank you

[errant tapir]

so nezarec was his first and only kind?

[dim minnow]

Nezarc seems to be like a Chimera

not the Taken Chimera

[trim grotto]

We honestly have no idea what Nezarec is beyond his self-appointed title of "Final God of Pain".

[dim minnow]

like Nezarec is an amalgamation of multiple entities

though it is mentioned that he is derived from Rhulk

[trim grotto]

Is it?

[dim minnow]

in that Pantheon lore tidbit stuff

[trim grotto]

Ah, I forgot about those. Do you have it on hand?

[dim minnow]

nope

Created from Rhulk’s blueprint, Nezarec was the first Tormentor from which all others owe their lineage. Nezarec relishes in sowing fear and pain, feeding off the terror of sentient beings. He can induce nightmares across entire worlds.

I think this is the official TWAB's wording on it

[trim grotto]

Ahh yes that's right

[dim minnow]

kinda anticlimatic if you ask me

[trim grotto]

I agree, actually.

[dim minnow]

like we have rich lore on Rhulk and his annointment as a Disciple

meanwhile Nezarec is just "Oh btw he was made from Rhulk's genetic blueprint or whatever"

kind of like how we first learned that Mithrax was getting hit with evil Dementia

[errant tapir]

Wait

What is rhulk?

What is rhulk species?

[trim grotto]

The First Disciple. He was of the planet Lubrae, making him Lubraean.

[errant tapir]

Tell me more

So he is the only kind we've ever known?

[trim grotto]

Yes, on account of the fact that he brutally murdered everyone he ever knew and then destroyed their entire planet.

The Witness thought he had potential, and so picked him up.

[errant tapir]

HE COMMITED GENOCIDE ON HIS OWN PEOPLE?

Is there a reason?

[trim grotto]

He had anger issues.

[sick yew]

H was bored

[errant tapir]

WATDAFAK

[trim grotto]

Part of the reason was due to the extreme class segregation of his home world. He lived beyond the walls as a nomad amidst the dark and the monsters. Something something his father betrayed him, something something, murders every person on the planet.

[slim girder]

The planet iirc relied on 2 moons. Rhulk cut one of them off and the planet "died" as rhulk said.

I think due to the gravity of the 2 moons.

[errant tapir]

GOD DAMN

WHY ARE THE BAD GUYS JUST SO AWFUL IN THE GAME

[sick yew]

Never show this man Warhammer

[errant tapir]

I've already seen it

The machine that is said a coffin

A man fuses with machine

[ruby pivot]

a god that gives you knowledge but twists it

a god of pleasure that gives you the sickly lavish needs of sentient creatures and twist it

a literal plague that wants to spread love

[blazing wasp]

mild correction; god of excess, suffering and pain is included in something that gives them power

joy, grief, anything

[ruby pivot]

ah right that too

[errant tapir]

hush

this is lore discussion for D2 and not warhammer

[trim grotto]

Mm. Depends on who you refer to.

[low gyro]

uh. what did you expect

i don't think people will be happy with saturday cartoon villain shenanigans

[sick yew]

Nah I would

[errant tapir]

It's just there isn't much reason behind of their insanity

Oh would u look at that

I am mad

Welp time to kill all of my kind and blow up a planet

Whoopsie daisy

[low gyro]

i am pretty sure there are some irl people that would do that if they are omnipotent

[errant tapir]

We need like plot

Beginning middle to end

Not beginning to end

Doesn't feel right

[trim grotto]

Well, there is. Rhulk has personality, what you got were the cliff notes. If you truly want to know his story, you've got to actually read his story.

[slim girder]

My only issue with destiny's villains is that we don't seem to really give any punishment and yes I know it is probably lazy but I feel we should actually kill some of the big bads we face instead of just leaving them be without consequence.
There is such a thing as an irredeemable villain.

[low gyro]

the dragon ball effect lol

[slim girder]

It's good to have bad villains. I feel like destiny needs more hateable antagonists. Like villains who do genuinely bad things.

Maya was on that level to some extent murdering copy after copy including the real version of her own wife. And we just let her escape.

[errant tapir]

what is maya again?

exo?

[trim grotto]

Maya Sundaresh. Golden Age researcher.

[slim girder]

Maya sundaresh.

[errant tapir]

yesterday i farmed choir of one catalysts and just play along

[trim grotto]

One of the versions of her became the Conductor and was the antagonist of Episode Echoes.

[errant tapir]

maya sundaresh has a wife chioma-esi, she killed chioma again and again trying to find the perfect version

ig she got the echoes

and brainwash vex

[slim girder]

Not brainwash

Give them individuality

So instead of vex acting like a hivemind they could instead do things like give themselves names

[trim grotto]

Even going to far as to pull versions of Chioma away from other Maya Sundaresh's

[errant tapir]

HUH?

other maya sundaresh's?

what's that supposed to mean

[errant tapir]

ohh

so the arena breach executable map

is it in nessus?

[slim girder]

Nessus

That's the vex network

[trim grotto]

In the Golden Age, Maya Sundaresh and her team were researching a Vex unit. Long story short, the team was simulated 227 times, then saved by Rasputin, then released into the Vex Network as simulated entities of data.

[slim girder]

The vex network is where the vex compile all their data and run simulations. We've entered it many times to secure data from them, kill specific vex minds, even jump from one place to another as a sort of shortcut.

The cloudark for neomuna is based off this network

[errant tapir]

Oh so the map is based on nessus?

[slim girder]

The entrance is

[errant tapir]

But different part?

[slim girder]

The vex network is a whole seperate dimension

[errant tapir]

Oh

[trim grotto]

All of Echoes is on Nessus or the Vex Network - essentially a realm of data.

[errant tapir]

Vex network is the map called on arena breach executable?

Oki

[slim girder]

@errant tapir you know the ascendant plain? Dark and shadowy? Think of the vex network in a similar way

[errant tapir]

Was Maya a guardian? Ik she is a robot now, was she ever human? Or just exo?

[slim girder]

No

She was a researcher in the golden age

[errant tapir]

Where is ascendant plain again?

[slim girder]

And one of the founders of neomuna

[slim girder]

Everywhere. It's not in a certain place

[trim grotto]

No.
She was data. As I said, simulated from the real human Maya Sundaresh.
All Exo were Human, Felwinter aside.

[errant tapir]

Hmph confused

[trim grotto]

Which part

[errant tapir]

So the real Maya sundaresh is a human

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[errant tapir]

Why did she turn into a robot?

She some sort of upload her brain into a robot?,

Make a clone?

[jagged badge]

Convenient physical form to take that had relation to her and familiarity to us

[errant tapir]

Oh....

That doesn't make sense

[slim girder]

Do you know about exos?

[errant tapir]

I.....

Just know there is exo species

[slim girder]

I'll give you a short explanation.

[errant tapir]

Okay

[trim grotto]

The 227 were simulated from Maya Sundaresh. She was fine, but copies were made. They were added into the network.
The original human Maya Sundaresh ended up helping found Neomuna, and eventually entered the network herself.

As data, upon claiming the Echo, she created a form from the Radiolarian Fluid. An Exo chassis of Lakshmi-2, which is a different story for another time. She simply needed a body.

[trim grotto]

Artificial bodies with actual human mindscans uploaded into them. A robot with a human mind.

A person is scanned, they die, they are uploaded.

[errant tapir]

I CALLED IT

[trim grotto]

Not exactly.

[errant tapir]

I've been watching too many sci-fi

[trim grotto]

Well, Exo have been a thing since day 1 of Destiny 10 years ago

[errant tapir]

To make it more convenient like Eris said?

[trim grotto]

Well at that point, as data, she didn't even have a body. She was essentially code. A program flitting around an intangible network.

So, yes. She needed a body if she wanted to interact with anything outside of the network.

The Exo form she chose was familiar, so, it sufficed.

[slim girder]

Lakshmi was built as a copy of herself so she could in short study the veil easier.
So Maya as code who didn't have her actual human form anymore instead just used this robot version of her as it did have her memories

[errant tapir]

Wait wait

[jagged badge]

Lakshmi didn’t have Maya’s memories

[errant tapir]

Wait wait wait

Maya being a code

Something to do with 227 simulation?

Need more explanation pls

[trim grotto]

I... don't know how else to explain this
Uh, let me see

[jagged badge]

She was just code in the Vex Network, not a physical body travelling within it

[slim girder]

This is tricky

[jagged badge]

So outside the Network she needed a body

[errant tapir]

Yes yes ik eris

[jagged badge]

So she made an Exo frame

[errant tapir]

She once had a physical body as being human yes?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[jagged badge]

Yes

[errant tapir]

Now u three said she is a code now

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[errant tapir]

Without a physical body

Integrated in vex network

Now.....

How did the event go from having physical body to being a code in the vex network?

Did she run too many simulations?

[trim grotto]

As I said, the 227 were simulated by the Vex unit they were studying. Maya Sundaresh and her team were copied and turned into 227 simulations running simultaneously.
Rasputin freed their data and set them free into the network. Technically, as simulations, they never had bodies.
The real Maya Sundaresh and her team were fine.

Later, after the real Maya and team founded Neomuna, Maya and Chioma ended up entering the network themselves. Via the Veil, their bodies probably dissolved. They became data, simulated beings flitting throughout the hostile network of the Vex.

We can provide the sources for some of this if you want to get the full context. The Veil Logs, the old Grimoire cards, dialogue from Episode Echoes, that kind of thing.

Well, the others can
I have to sleep
Fairwell

[jagged badge]

G’night Maelstronnar-3, Lore Hunter

[errant tapir]

Damn

[sick yew]

Forgot the 📚

[errant tapir]

The dude elaborates and just leave

I still have my questions

[trim grotto]

woes of starting work at 6:30 AM

[blazing wasp]

Receives question

Elaborates

Leaves

[trim grotto]

at least it's gonna be friday when i wake up

anywho

https://tenor.com/view/dog-zlarb-gone-disappear-gif-15668282

[errant tapir]

Babai

Rasputin here

What is Rasputin?

Who is Rasputin?

Rasputin arsenal, GM on moon mention rasputin

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/rasputin-destiny2-warmind-gif-18628971

[sick yew]

Rasputin is what happens when you strap roughly 500 RTX graphics cards to each other and play a lot of russian and balet music to them

(Hes an Ai)

[errant tapir]

GOD DAMN

He a big one

Big guy incoming

[errant tapir]

Does the card become overheat and blow up?

[sick yew]

No

[errant tapir]

So it is a machine? I assume

What are his directories?

[jagged badge]

Rasputin is a Warmind. A Golden Age artificial intelligence designed to strategise for conflicts and defend humanity

[sick yew]

Speak in a really cool voice

And what Tempest said

[jagged badge]

He was mostly developed by the Brays. Ana Bray particularly helped in Rasputin’s development by teaching him more about humanity and culture, ultimately humanising Rasputin and saving humanity because he understood them and worked in their interests

[sick yew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsTBjuXxIqE

Like listen to that shit

[jagged badge]

Ngl the actual scene with the music and everything is way cooler

[errant tapir]

So he is a good guy?

[jagged badge]

https://youtu.be/Q4_fDh1RB00

[errant tapir]

Ohh so now ik why Rasputin freed maya

Because he wanted to save humans

[sick yew]

I disagree personally, the voice itself gives me chills just listening to it

[jagged badge]

He’s complicated. He’s done some questionable/bad things in the past

Rasputin is responsible for the death of the Iron Lords

[errant tapir]

Iron lords?

Connected to iron banner?

[slim girder]

Yes

They were the first "guardians" dedicated to protecting people

[sick yew]

Dont forget when he nuked those colony ships trying to get off Titan when the collapse was about to hit

:)

[jagged badge]

Yes. Saladin is one of two surviving Iron Lords from back then

[slim girder]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-gif-21843382

They're also furries

Lots of pet wolves

[errant tapir]

Yooooo

Sorry

We don't do that here ok

[errant tapir]

Titan planet?

[slim girder]

But fr though. The iron lords protected humanity during the dark ages but were all killed when Rasputin unleashed Siva and many other weapons onto them.

[errant tapir]

Siva siva

Hmmm

Outbreak perfected?

Siva swarms?

[slim girder]

Yes

[errant tapir]

[slim girder]

It was a big thing back in D1s rise of iron DLC but now that has all been dealt with and siva is gone

[errant tapir]

Who did make Rasputin?

Why did Rasputin unleash Siva?

Siva is a technological weapon?

[jagged badge]

Rasputin began as a pre-Golden Age AI called “R”. In the Golden Age, the Bray family developed him into the legendary Warmind

[slim girder]

The brays made Rasputin.
Rasputin did it to kill felwinter.
Siva is a nanotech designed to build things but given a directive it can become a weapon

[jagged badge]

One of the Iron Lords, Felwinter, was actually an Exo frame AI that Rasputin had sent into the world to live amongst humanity and learn from them, so it could come back and impart this experience in Rasputin. This Exo died in the Collapse and was later risen as a Lightbearer. Rasputin was furious with the Traveler for stealing his son and was constantly trying to kill Felwinter and retrieve the body

It lured the Iron Lords to their doom with the promise of SIVA, a nanotechnology they believed could be used to rebuild for humanity, and he killed them all using it

Other than Saladin, who survived the battle, and Efrideet, who wasn’t present

[errant tapir]

NOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOO

When did Rasputin learn to protect humanity?

Nooo Rasputin what have you done

[jagged badge]

In the Collapse, he was about to shoot the Traveler in case it decided to flee the system, but he decided not to. This helped humanity. After finding out how ineffective he was against the Black Fleet though, he shut down as a sort of long-term solution, prioritising his own survival for the future good of humanity rather than the immediate protection of more lives. This required a complex moral structure shift in his programming

[jagged badge]

When we wake and restore Rasputin in the Warmind expansion, he pledges to defend humanity on his own terms, as you can see here

[errant tapir]

But in the end, zavalla said "What have you done" as in we did something horrible

[jagged badge]

In Season of the Worthy, we load up Rasputin’s arsenal so that he is capable of destroying the Almighty, a massive Cabal ship that had been sent on a collision course with the Last City

[jagged badge]

He distrusts the Warmind because of the Guardians he has killed

He’d forbade us and Ana from doing what we were doing

But we went behind his back

[errant tapir]

oh thats ana

Ana bray...?

[slim girder]

Yes

[jagged badge]

Yeah. She was the Bray that was closest to Rasputin. And then she died in the Collapse, and then was risen as a Guardian. Despite the rules against it, she looked into her past life and learned all she could about herself

[errant tapir]

is she the last bray?

[jagged badge]

She claimed her old name and was excited to learn about her legacy

[slim girder]

The exo stranger is her sister elsie

[jagged badge]

Clovis and Elisabeth are still around

As Exos

[errant tapir]

question

[jagged badge]

There’s also the AI copy of Clovis that kinda counts

[errant tapir]

despite the rule against it

why is there a rule to not dig your past self?

is it rule from our ghost?

[slim girder]

Vanguard.

[jagged badge]

The idea was that it’s a distraction I suppose. You’re risen in the Light for a new chance, to help the Traveler. If you spend too much time digging into who you might have been, then

[slim girder]

You're a new person when you're risen.

[jagged badge]

There’s also the potential consequences of that. Imagine learning you were a horrible person before and how that would shake your self-image

[errant tapir]

Yes yes ik ik I'm sorry

It's just I am a curious person

But I'm too lazy to lookup online

And ask google

[slim girder]

Think about crow. He was awful before becoming a guardian and he basically had a breakdown when he learnt the truth

[errant tapir]

Now he become gud

Protecting people

I learnt that from this episode

[slim girder]

Yes because he's a new person as a guardian. That's the second chance

[errant tapir]

He said fikrul to stop doing what he's doing

[errant tapir]

Meanwhile.... Savathun?

[jagged badge]

Well, Savathûn ruined her own second chance because she organised a way to be immediately indoctrinated back into her own plans by her brood

Immaru rezzed her and her Right Hand was immediately there to tell her who she was and what to do

And then ofc, pre-death Savathûn had already organised the complex plot around us retrieving her memories for her

[slim girder]

She manipulated us into reminding her what her plans were.

[jagged badge]

Well, no

She knew what her plans were from her Brood. Us finding her key memories through Deepsight restored Savathûn’s memories entirely

[errant tapir]

FAKKKK

@jagged badge I have a question regarding your fun fact